Episode 61 - Product Junkies July Edition - Things We Are Loving Right Now (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 61 - Product Junkies July Edition - Things We Are Loving Right Now

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

welcome back to another episode of Nirvana sisters, product junkies, it is July and we have some fun reviews for the month. So I'm going to kick it off to Katie, we're just gonna get right into Oh,

Katie: 0:41

I didn't expect that. I thought you were going to start us out. Okay. I'm going to start I'm going to start with food because Okay, I have had this product. It's been around for a while. But I just really want to give them a shout out because I'm a dairy free girl. And being a dairy free girl, you still love cheese. You still love yogurt, you love all the things but you can't do it if you're lactose intolerant like I am. And all of these brands have been trying for years to make a good like copycat. And there's finally our legitimate brands that do and it's Kite Hill. Kite Hill is my like number one go to and I just know that. It's like the word needs to get out there. If you can't do dairy. They have dips. I'm a dip person. I love a good oh, I've had their damp the Kite Hill. Yeah, you love a good caramelize or French onion dip. They have it Suzuki, they have a ranch and now they have a queso. That tastes so much like real queso. It's insane.

Amy: 1:46

You Oh my God, I didn't have a sofa. You can eat

Katie: 1:49

it cold. You can eat it hot. It's like I feel like a dairy eater again. So Oh, and also, I have to try to make butter. They now have a plant based butter that I bought last week. That's really good. And my cholesterol is kind of high lately because of my genetics. So it's good for me to switch to the plant based butters. So anyway, it's not the most exciting product review, but I just felt like I really needed to shout it out. Yes. No, I think that's really refreshing and just nice to be able to like enjoy dairy again. Even though it's not dairy that sort of feels like to

Amy: 2:21

me Yeah, I need to I I've had some other chips. I've had the French onion and there's like another one. That's good. I can't remember what flavor it is. And I forgot I haven't gotten those in a while. Oh ranch. I think they've branched up that's good. And then I used to have their yogurt. What's the nutrition like? Like, because usually they're pretty low in sugar

Katie: 2:39

too, right? They're actually Oh, they also have a spinach and artichoke dip. That's the one that I tried recently that like blew my mind. It's it's really clean. It's awesome. And they're all made from almonds. Like some of the products that you know like the mica knows brand is made from cashews kettles made from almonds. They do better with almonds and cashews. So for example, Spinach artichoke dip, it tastes so spot on it's almond milk, spinach, coconut oil, artichokes, modified corn starch, salt, garlic powder, yeast extract, onion pattern, natural flavor, locust bean gum, lemon juice concentrate, guar, gum and cultures. So it's it's like it's the common stuff that you're seeing in a lot of these products. I think without a lot of the garbage. It's dairy free, soy free, gluten free, vegan, kosher, non GMO, no artificial colors or preservatives, and made from live and active cultures, which means it's going to have some probiotics in it as well. So I think it's good. Okay. And, and, like, calorie wise, it's like, also really nice and guilt free. I mean, you know, not that it matters. But for two tablespoons. It's only 30 calories. It's like two grams of fat. It's no saturated fat to carbs. It's easy. No sugar, one gram of protein. You know, it's like, it's, yeah, that's going on. Around.

Amy: 3:53

Okay, good. Love code Hill. Good. Good. Good product mention. Okay, the next one I'm going to mention. We talked about it, I said it I was hinting this to earlier today. And I've been using this for months, but I was saving it to tell you about it. And it is athletic. Oh, I know. I've converted myself. I mean, athletic greens is all over the place. I feel like I've seen it everywhere. And I never tried it. And I was listening to Andrew Huberman who I love. And he talks about athletic greens all the time. And he's been using it since 2012. Those of you has so I always hear Andrew Huberman talking about it on his podcast, which is the Hubert Huber Minh Lab, which I've spoken about before. He's a PhD, neuroscientist professor in the Department of neurobiology at Stanford. So I trust everything he says, and he's his podcast, just as an aside is so good because he breaks down really kind of complex things into like, ways that you can understand and he always provides context to an issue he's talking about and then gives you really good insight, recommendations, etc. But anyway, he always talks about ethics. greens. And so finally I was like, Alright, I gotta try it. Since I've tried it, I've had it everyday sense and how do you feel on it, it has really helps me I feel so much better. Because what I've been doing is well, just for everybody to know athletic greens, if you go to athletic greens.com, you can read all about it. But you can do it on a subscription. Or you can just buy a one, you know, one time package, I bought a subscription thinking I would just cancel it if I didn't like it. And the subscription, which is $79 comes with the starter kit. So this jar, which I like, because you have to you have to keep it in the fridge. So this jar with the scooper. And then it also comes with this, like shaker. So I just use this every day, I have a system, which you know, I love a system and travel packs, which is great. So I'll bring it with me on my trip next week. So I've been feeling really good on it. Because what I've been doing now instead of drinking my coffee, first thing is I get up in the morning, and I have athletic greens. And the reason why I like it is because you only need like eight to 12 ounces. So it's not like a whole thing of water, it's like maybe like a half a jar of water, you know, 12 ounces, whatever. So I do that. And then I just feel like very hydrated and like good. And then I have my coffee maybe then or an hour later. So it's like a good start to my morning. So I really like it then. But it has every mineral nutrient you could need from greens. And so especially like if you're traveling, it's like the one thing that he talks about. And I've heard other people talk about it too. It's like the one thing they bring with them because they know they'll get all their minerals. And so you know, you're getting everything from it in one place. So even if you have a salad and stuff like that, whatever, but at least you know, you're getting it all in one place. And it's also I believe it prebiotic and probiotic. So my digestion has been much better on it, which has been a big one for me, because I never find anything that like really helps with my digestion. And this has helped with my digestion. So I've been taking it like every day for three months. I haven't missed a day. Well, I was I enjoy it. I think it tastes good. Yeah, I was looking back and I've gotten it. This is like my third month. And I'm almost done with this. And my fourth one is gonna is being mailed today. So I really like it. It's easy, it tastes good. I mean, it's like not sweet, not, it's just kind of like, it just feels good. It's very hydrating. And I've just gotten into the routine. And what I do is I just keep the jar in the fridge like in this one spot that I have. And then I use this shaker like the thing that comes with it every day. It's like a plastic bottle. You just put the greens in, put the water and shake it and drink it. And then I just clean it right there and put it right back in with like a little water. So it keeps it cool. And I just do the same thing every morning. It's like no big deal. And I love it. It's actually been making me feel a lot better.

Katie: 7:42

I have to tell you, I've used it. I was ordering athletic greens, like at the very start of the pandemic when I got into podcast and DAX Shepard's podcast. So they advertised, so I ordered a time. And I liked it. But I had some other stomach stuff going on. So I didn't we weren't simpatico at the time, but maybe I need to try it again. Give it another go.

Amy: 8:04

Yeah, and like I think these things are interesting because I think certain things work for some people and certain things don't like I remember we were talking about in another one of our shows the secara metabolism powder, which you love. I used it and I didn't like it. I mean, it was like fine, but I didn't it didn't make a huge impact on me where you love it. So I think it's just like you have to find the things that are right for you. And I was like, super excited to find something that actually like, I can feel a difference. And I feel better on it when I drink it. And my digestion is much better than it used to be. So that's huge. And then I feel like I'm getting all of the superfoods and vitamins and minerals that I need. So huge support. Athletic Greens, right? Oh, so the subscription is $79 a month. But if you do a one time I think it's 99. So I just do this subscription because it's cheaper and then you don't have to think about ordering like a jar that they send you and it's great. I like the jar Yeah, it's nice and I like the scooper. It has like a good weight to it. And I like the shaker like it's all good. So I'm really excited about athletic greens. So that's, that's that one.

Katie: 9:08

What do you got? Mine is a supplement kind of ish. It's electrolytes. The brand you know the brand I've given it to you before, but we haven't talked about on the show yet element T or element. It's I love this brand of electrolytes. It's actually was created for the ketogenic community. I can't remember exactly the name of the people that started it, but they did that because if you were doing keto, you had to have like more sodium. It's just like keto it's really important to watch your electrolytes. So this group started this brand of electrolytes and it's 1000 milligrams of sodium which is high for electrolytes. Most electrolytes don't have that much 200 milligrams potassium 60 grams of magnesium and they come in all of these great flavors but what I love the most about it is that it comes in raw and flavored one because of favorite ones typically have.

Amy: 10:01

That's the one that yeah, the flavored ones. The one that you started like

Katie: 10:05

super delicious, but they always have like stevia, which a lot of people do find with stevia, I don't like me and sugar alcohols or whatever, it's just, it doesn't match. So they have an unflavored one that has no stevia, and it's just the straight up electrolytes which I love it and I subscribe to it so I get it every other month for $39 And then if you just do it one time, it's $45 but it's a huge box of 30 packs so you have you eaten up one a day and they have grapefruit salt. I feel like you would love that flavor. Yeah, oh great. Salt citrus salt, watermelon, salt, orange salt, raspberry salt, chocolate salt seems kind of weird but whatever. Lemon habanero mango chili. So yeah,

Amy: 10:54

yeah, interesting. I didn't know they had all those flavors. I actually just got the unflavored one that you got me on, which I love and whenever I'm feeling dehydrated, I drink and it makes a huge difference. That's yeah,

Katie: 11:04

great. Good. lm n TLM. N

Amy: 11:07

T. Great. Okay, so getting into beauty a little bit I have a few things. So my first one is this Tom Ford lipstick and gloss which are so beautiful. They are like the perfect nude. You know we're always looking for the perfect nude. I found this I think I saw it on Tik Tok when Mikayla recommended it a few months ago. I think it was her. And this lipstick is called blush nude. It's a soft pink beige. It is like the best color it's so luxurious too. It feels so good on your lips. It's so moisturizing. It's $58 so a little pricey for lipstick but honestly this lipstick lasts forever so it's such good quality. And I love the color and then you match it with the glass Luxe lip gloss and this color is called in the buff which is like a nude with a gold pearl if you can see this and that combo it is like the most gorgeous nude and this is $58 as well. I wear it I get so many compliments all the time people are like what are you wearing? What is on your lips it's just such a good year rounds great nude and also the packaging is already a full on like heavy and luxurious you know highly recommend Do

Katie: 12:32

you know if they have like different various nude shades of that same one Do you know because you know some like some nudes are it depends on your skin tone to find the right nude like I wonder if Yeah, I could wear the same nude that you could wear?

Amy: 12:46

I don't know I mean they definitely have like a lot of lipstick colors and I'm sure they have other nudes I just this is the one blush nude. That seems to work for a lot of people because I've seen a lot about it online but there's probably other nudes as well. And then the the the glosses they have tons of colors too. But this one in the buff pairs really nicely.

Katie: 13:08

Check it out. So yes, I love it. Yeah. All right. Well, that was a high I have a low high low little drugstore find. Oh my god, I love it. That's great. So this is L'Oreal True Match Lumi lotion, natural glow enhancer. And it's 1599 I think I actually got it CVS for like 1399 this is on alters website that I'm looking at right now. It's a great little bottle of like very highlighting luminous lotion, and I actually use it as highlighter on my cheekbone. But then like if I'm going out and I've got a you know, like a tank top or something I'm like I put it on my shoulders and I put it on my chest like lotion. You can use it either way. It works really really well though, as a highlighter, and it's a nice consistency. It's really pretty. It's like I don't know it's kind of hard to see here. But this is light glow. Number nine Oh,

Amy: 14:16

okay. I think I have that one. It's so funny that you have that because I literally just bought that one and the darker one because I wasn't I bought it online so it was like hard to tell. But that's interesting that you use that as a highlight and on your body. I never thought to do that. I've just used it on my face just Oh really? Like always. I wasn't Yeah, I just like one day mixed it with my sunscreen and used it just as a moisturizer idea, but I guess you could use it really

Katie: 14:43

funny. It's I mean, I don't even know like I didn't even realize that it was considered a lotion until I looked at it today for this exact purpose. I thought I bought it for a highlighter but it says instantly hydrates eliminated this for an all over fresh, healthy naked skin glow. So There you go.

Amy: 15:01

Yeah, I'm gonna use it as a highlighter though so now that I got the two colors that's actually good because maybe I'll use like the one of them as a highlighter and one is like, you know exactly like the darker one for my body and 100% I never thought to put it on like your chest and shoulders. Yeah, it's a good idea like, and it feels really good feel not at all.

Katie: 15:19

It's it's very light.

Amy: 15:21

Yeah, that's a great drugstore. I love that. Okay, next, I put this on our Instagram a couple of weeks ago when I was stocking up on all my favorite products. And I always you know, as we love beauty shamans, one of our favorite brands, so I tried her soul veil SPF 25 Because I needed a new moisturizer. And it is delicious. I love it so much. It's $75 and it's the it has such a good feel to it for moisturizer specially for the summer. It's not heavy, but it's not light. It's like that perfect texture. And the smell is so good. Again, it's not strong, but it's just like this light smell I honestly every time I put it on my face I like put it in my hands and smell it it's like a little and then I put it on my face. It's just so good. And I was worried about the 25 because you know I'm super into some protection and I thought 25 wasn't enough, but I actually recently went to the gym and I was like Is 25 okay to wear and she's like yeah, it's fine to wear on a daily basis she's like, but if you're going to the beach or like you're outside all day like playing golf or at the pool she's like wear something more but she's like for an everyday moisturizer 25 is totally fine. So I was like Okay, great. So anyway, I highly recommend that if you need a moisturizer with an SPF. I also love which we've talked about a million times Supergoop but Supergoop is just the sunscreen so sometimes when you just want to like have one stop and moisturizer and sunscreen together it's like hard to find a good one I know Elta MD we've talked about a lot too but this one I'm obsessed with

Katie: 16:52

I have to get it I love this because I feel like so I have drugstore fi and so I feel like you are definitely on the high end today and I'm on the low end Yeah bringing you both spectrums listeners. My next one is another drugstore find in fact I have found it at the grocery store. And recently I my hair has felt so good. It's been really really silky. And I don't I mean I didn't necessarily do anything differently other than I've just been using this religiously for some time now. So it's the brand is Haske and this particular product is a keratin protein smoothing hair oil and it says it softens and renews its for damaged over processed hair which obviously you know, I get my hair highlighted. It's alcohol free and instantly absorbing and it's just like a really nice finishing smoothing oil in the littlest amount I mean I really use like barely even what's the bride HASK h a s k so I use this I use scene haircare we love our seen haircare right shampoo and conditioner. I'm like, religiously. That's all I use. And then I use this and I can just

Amy: 18:11

and you use that when you're hurting wet or dry or like

Katie: 18:14

it's like a finishing oil. And I don't have to do any just put it on your end. Yeah, I don't even I don't blow dry it. I don't curl it anymore. It just like falls with like a nice, smooth wave. And sometimes it's that and you reapply it every day just to like to be hydrated or you don't need to. But if I need to I don't like like right after I get my hair highlighted. Yeah, I

Amy: 18:36

probably use it more. Okay, and you got it.

Katie: 18:39

I've heard this one in particular, I think literally at the grocery store, but I have bought it at CVS before I've seen it in a ton of places. It's $2 $2 $2 I swear up $2 No kidding me and it works. It's legitimate. That is like you know, Moroccan oil brand like more expensive. It's it's really good. It works.

Amy: 19:01

Okay, I gotta try that. Love it. Okay, well I do have a good drugstore finds it as my last beauty category product. So another brands that I love, which is sun balm, love is the sun bum face mist. That's funny, refreshing face mist mist sunscreen, broad spectrum, SPF 45. Do

Katie: 19:22

you have stairs and I almost brought it for review.

Amy: 19:26

So funny. Don't you love it? It's great. It's so good. So for our listeners, it's like this 3.4 ounce bottle. First of all, it has that some bomb smell which is like that coconutty whatever. Smell and I just love that it's a mist because it almost feels like you're putting like a rose water on your face and it's just like such a good refresher. So I always have it in my beach bag or like if I'm out you know at the pool or something and it's just like cool and refreshing and gives you that coverage and you don't have to like reapply sunscreen. I love it so much. So anyway, it's some bum 59 denying and it's just yeah, refreshing, faceless and you know what? SPF 45

Katie: 20:04

And using that on the kids all week this week for camp because it's, I'm getting them out the door in the morning. The last thing I have time for is like smoothing out the face lotion sunscreen. It takes forever. So I've been splitting this on them and they're totally fine. It's not bothering their eyes. I mean, it's made for the face of course, but it's kid friendly to Ray just

Amy: 20:24

spray it on there and go. Yeah, you don't have to rub it in. So nice. Love. Alright, my

Katie: 20:29

last one is another drugstore find. It is by NYX you know that brand NY X? Yeah, and it's their jumbo eye pencil. And I have it in two shades. This is like a pearlescent white that I put on, you know, like the inside and what do they call them area? The water? Yeah, like inside. Right, exactly. And then also like right in here right where your eye corners. And then I have the most beautiful deep purple that I use as eyeliner and kind of like smudge it around as like an eyeshadow. But the font they have, like really fun colors and pinks and purples and greens and blues. And you could get really funky with it. But super cheap $5.50 and at last I worked out one night and it lasted the whole night. And it just felt like gave my eyes a good pop and a sparkle. So it's a fun one.

Amy: 21:25

Yeah, I love that brand that they have great stuff. What's that color called?

Katie: 21:29

That was white color is called. Not the best name cottage cheese. They could have gone with anything and they went with cottage cheese. Yeah. But it hasn't got a nice.

Amy: 21:48

Alright, well, that's easy to remember. Oh yeah, that's really

Katie: 21:55

my purple one in the other room. But the purple is really beautiful. It's like a deep eggplant purple. Whoo. Okay,

Amy: 21:59

so well, we'll put that in the show notes. Because a good purple is hard to find now Good to know. Okay, well, my last product is like super random. But it's a really good hack. So when I went skiing over spring break, I bought this. You're gonna laugh. I bought this boot bag. from Amazon. It's a boot bag. And it's really Yeah, like it's literally for ski boots. So you put your ski boots on the side and you put your ski clothes in the middle. And it's a backpack, and I bought on Amazon, it's 5999 Okay, $60. And the materials like on I mean, it's like cannot rip, it's so tough the material and the brand is called outdoor master. So random. I know, because I just bought it and I was it's not like cute. I mean, they have like Navy, black and whatever. It's not a cute bag. However, it is the best replacement for toiletries and shoes. So what I've been doing so I used it in when we went skiing, like what it for what it's for. But then we had another trip for like, I don't remember like a weekend or something. And I just threw all of my because for me shoes and toiletries are like the worst thing to pack. They never fit. It's so annoying. I can never fit in. I'm always carrying on. I never have the right bag. So what I do now is I put all my shoes on the sides here. And they fit because this is tall. And so you can get like a couple pairs of shoes and each side depending on what you're packing. And then in the middle, I put my toiletries and I just stack them up. And it's like the perfect bag shoes and toiletries and I just bring it on the plane and you're like on a weekend trip. Can

Katie: 23:33

you close up the sides or you can't close up the sides? Like like when you're when you put your shoes in? It's inside. They're not like sticking out. Oh, yeah. Very cool.

Amy: 23:44

It's it's a huge deep pocket like massively deep. So you put it in here and then yeah, just zipper it up. And then there's also on there's a lot of like pockets. There's also a pocket here, like on the side. So what I do with here is I'll just like throw in like what we were just saying before like an athletic greens packets or like just different things I need. And then the middle pack getting in there. There's a pocket up top here for whatever, cell phone passport, stuff like that. And then this sorry, this is loud mic, but has this whole deep section. But the reason why it's so good is because it's all so you can really get a lot in there. And so I actually used it to go on a weekend trip and that was all I brought. So I brought like a few because it was like a beach trip. So I just brought like a few things that I put in the middle through my toiletries on top threw some shoes in and I was good to go. So anyway, it's such a good hack to use it as a traveler like

Katie: 24:35

also. And it's a backward it's Oh, it's a backpack, but also I feel like it would sit nicely on top of your suitcase as you're like rolling it through the airport. It looks like it has like a nice black bottom when it could sit there nicely. Yeah, but I like that it's a backpack

Amy: 24:50

and it's got these pads for the back. So it's um it's comfortable because I've I've patched it before and it's been pretty heavy but it's been comfortable. So it's like a funny shape because it's like like a kind of like a triangle you know like a half triangle so it looks a little odd but who cares it's one of those like really convenient good things so anyway random one but I thought as people are traveling and they need like a weekend bag it's a great one or carry on that okay all right well that was fun good product junkies Jul episode talk to you guys in the next one have a good day we thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 58 - How To Reset And Detoxify Your Body In 5 Days With Kroma Wellness Founder And CEO, Lisa Odenweller (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 58 - How To Reset And Detoxify Your Body In 5 Days With Kroma Wellness Founder And CEO, Lisa Odenweller.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:27

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. We are here with Lisa Odenweller, the Kroma Wellness CEO and founder who is a visionary entrepreneur and we cannot wait to talk with her. We are also sipping our afternoon beauty matcha lattes from Kroma and it's fabulous. And I'm loving it in our special Kroma mugs, which are also beautiful. So we wanted to meet with Lisa because we wanted to hear all about Kroma her new brand, and also her background because she has an incredible background and well being and wellness and all holistic wellness type things and you've probably seen Kroma for our listeners, you've probably seen Kroma all of our Instagram, like I definitely have. I've seen a lot of celebrity endorsements and you can't miss the beautiful packaging. So anyway, welcome to the show, Lisa, so happy to have you. And you're joining us from Colorado at a beautiful wellness retreat. So how great is that?

Lisa Odenweller: 1:25

Perfect timing. Thank you, Amy and Katie, thrilled to be here. Excited for the conversation.

Amy: 1:30

Awesome. So before we start, we want to go into our nirvana of the week, which is just something that happened this week, or today or yesterday that brought us joy and made us feel good and make us kind of step back and appreciate those small moments. So I'm going to hand it to Katie to do her nirvana of the week.

Katie: 1:44

Thanks, Amy. Let's see. I was thinking about this. And I think it had to have been last weekend. Usually, I'm always with the kids and my husband on the weekend, which I love. But I had kind of a hectic week and I needed to like really wind down and recharge my batteries. And we moved into a house that has a pool. And it was the first day that my husband was like, why don't you just go relax, lay by the pool. I'll take the kids for the day, he took the kids into the city into New York. And I just hung out and read a great book and listen to my music and went swimming and just had the whole day of quiet self care like downtime. And it was really needed. And it was to be able to do it in my backyard. And my pool was so fun. And so cool. So that was my that was my Nirvana this week. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:32

I love that. Well, it's been definitely crazy with the end of school and getting my kids ready for camp and all the craziness. And my other child, which is my puppy dog Skye who everybody on the show knows because I talk about her all the time, who's now nine months, I took a walk with her the other day. And she's finally like walking better, which for those of you that have a puppy understand that they just don't walk straight, and they're all over the place. And you kind of just like an enjoyable walk. But she's learning and she's getting better. And all the training we've been doing with her has really been panning out. So I took a nice long nature walk, walk with her. And it was relaxed, and it wasn't pulling and she wasn't pulling. And I was like, I just feel good right now. And I came back and I was refreshed. So that was my little special moment of the week. What about you, Lisa?

Lisa Odenweller: 3:21

I love the question. And I think it's such an important thing to do, because we often forget to. And so in thinking about the question, I think there's probably if I can share two maybe. Course. So the first one my son, my middle child, who's 18 just graduated last week. I mean, you and I were talking about that earlier. And congratulations. Thank you. And it's it's such a I have three kids and my youngest is 17. So my oldest is 24. So I'm getting close to being an empty nester, which is freaking me out. So going through all sorts of emotions around that. But what was really so special within his graduation was he wrote a letter his freshman year, it's a project at school, and it was a letter to himself. And I had prompt with questions and zipped six page letter and they gave it back to him him the senior year. Oh my gosh, he gives you the letter and he was like, mom read this. And, you know, actually it was laughter It was you know, like emotional everything. But there was a point in it that said Who is the person that you admire the most? And his answer was me. And his answer was, you know, my tenacity and my resilience and how hard I work and how I won't give up and you know, I'm just I believe in you know, the ability you know, possibility right and and then it was so funny because he's like, you know, and and that's what keeps me up at night because he's always tinkering in the kitchen making something superfoods. And but it was just like, you know, as a parent, we, you know, there's so many I'm a single mom, right? And I started my last brand beaming when my kids were little was 1012 years ago. Right? And I was going through divorce at the time and my everything I did was all about the business and I missed a lot of moments, right I was just so frantic to build beaming and we opened 10 locations I think it took off like wildfire and and then I was living in LA and San Diego and my kids are in San Diego with me and I just hearing that made me really just pause because I think as parents we just have, I don't know, for me, I carry like the, the guilt of God. You know, I wish that I had played Legos one more time or right now I wish that when, you know, my daughter asked me to play picnic, you know, I played pickup more likely there's just you can't help I think as a parent to reflect on the woulda, coulda, shoulda us. And so hearing how much he admired me and looked up to me, and really and respected me. You know, despite the fact that maybe I didn't, that I missed a couple days or whatever it was was just really warmed my heart that it wasn't, you know, a total loss. And I've been entrepreneurial now for 12 years.

Amy: 6:01

Yeah, I think that's so special.

Lisa Odenweller: 6:03

So that was that was really, really special. And, and then I guess the other thing to just mention, as I'm you kind of touched on it, I'm at a wellness retreat in Colorado, called reset. And they invited me to come they're brand new, and it's hiking all week and healthy food and everything that I love, and I'm from Colorado in the mountains. So I'm in like, I am in Nirvana. And but what's been so special about it is I've been going so fast for three years building Kroma that, you know, I don't get the time to just Yes, I exercise. And yes, I eat well, but you know, I'm on a conference call, I'm on the spin biker, I'm on a power walk, you know, on a conference call, like I don't really disconnect. And so to be here this week, and have the opportunity to go on for our hikes every morning and not have your phone except just to take pictures. And and has been magical on top of the fact of just connecting with people. And the group that we've been with this week has been in absolutely amazing. And it's been mostly men, these guys, and then my girlfriend came with me. And we have laughed all week. And one of them's a comedian, I think they're all comedians really, but one is actually a professional comedian. And so it's just been, so what I needed to feel recharged going back in. And I think that's also something that we just, life moves so fast. And it was really hard for me to disconnect and come here and allow myself to do that. And then now being here, and it's our last day. So tomorrow we go home and just really being in gratitude for the week, and really how magical it has been. And this is really where your mind opens. And you not only get to recharge and sort of like fill your heart, but you also get to like, kind of come back fresh, and able to create even better. So.

Amy: 7:55

Yeah, and we're really it's incredible, and we're

Katie: 7:57

grateful that you're dialing in during your disconnect with us, we really appreciate it. Because I mean, honestly, it's to, to be able to shut out the rest of the world for a time of self reflection and everything that you're doing and just taking care of yourself. It must be heaven, it must be complete nirvana. So thank you for dialing in with us letting us interrupts that

Amy: 8:21

everything that you just said totally resonates with Katie and I because that is so much of what we think about and we're all moving so quickly. And I think when you do things like that, you're you're there and you're probably thinking to yourself, can I really need to do this more because it is so juvenile eating you just don't think about it if you're not doing it and then you're like, gosh, I need to like really intentionally make sure I do this so Katie, let's make a note we need to go to recess and I'm having Nirvana's sister retreat. But I love the mountains in Colorado and yeah, everything you're saying like totally my vibe

Lisa Odenweller: 8:56

oh my god that hike we went on today and I've been to Telluride so many times I'm from Colorado was so spectacular like I was just like you just there's nothing like nature

Amy: 9:05

to nothing like it I totally am on the same page we both are we love it. Okay, so tell us about this three year project you've been working on Kroma wellness and kind of tell us like what gap you are seeing in the market and kind of how it started and how you kind of came up with the idea

Lisa Odenweller: 9:23

Well I started before then a little bit or ice I've been in the industry for 14 years and really around food as medicine and how to make healthy tastes amazing and approachable and and sexy and you know make it something that really speaks to a rock buff broader audience I last grand beaming was a series of healthy Grab and Go cafes super food cafes in Southern California we grew it to 10 locations mostly in LA. And I've always had this just bigger vision of just how do we really wake people up to the power of food as medicine and and understand how What control we have over our health? Right and, and to, to challenge, you know, do I really need that medication? Maybe I'm allergic to gluten or maybe I'm having to add sugar or alcohol or whatever it might be. And I think we take for granted our health. And so for me, it's really that's the underlying kind of mission and why and everything that I've done over these last 14 years, starting with beaming What was amazing about beaming, it's beaming, changing vibes. And people were obsessed with this brand, or food was amazing, are we I was the first person that really kind of changed the juice cleansing because I would make me crazy. I was like, why are we drinking 222 grams of sugar a day? Like, yes, it's fruit, but it's still sugar. And so I came up with a food cleanse. And it was incredibly culinary inspired and partnered with lots of different chefs and, and really just elevated the experience because I think healthy has to be something that be being healthier, making healthy choices should be something you look forward to. So while beaming, was doing all of this good, and was such an amazing brand. And I sold it years ago to Earth bar. So that's why it's a was

Amy: 11:07

what I always I read that and it's so fun. I didn't realize that and I love our

Lisa Odenweller: 11:10

bar. So yeah, and it's not what I had with binning anymore, but I'm very proud of the brand that we built. It was really, uh, it still gets tough on the street everywhere. Like, aren't you the founder of being made? Because people Oh, that's so cool. That's with it. It was very special. But I had a vision of how do we take all the good, what beaming is doing, I was doing and really reach more people because we're not going to open cafes everywhere. And when you're dealing with perishables, it's very difficult business, you know, it's something that goes bad the next day or whatever that might be. So really wanted to take the good at what beaming was and reach more people. And so the birth of Kroma came from basically recreating beaming in a powder base form, and in many, many ways, I mean, you can't make salads at a powder. And you know, wraps and kelp noodles. But what I could do is take the nutrients, the super foods, all of the the nutrition of binning, and really recreate that in a powdered rice based format that is on the go. That is just requires no thinking. It's all nutrition foods and beverages where it's as easy as it gets. And you feel satiated and nourished and, and it tastes amazing, which is not easy to do when you're dealing with powders. Because I've been working with super foods for 15 years, 1415 years, I am just a geek in the kitchen with them, you know, and I get obsessed on what Tumeric we use or the plant protein from Ecuador that we use called choco or the organic ceremonial grade matcha, or the bone broth from Australia, like every single ingredient, it matters. And myself and my daughter are the ones that created every product of Kroma. So the three years was the two of us in the kitchen. Formulating we have 19 products. So we launched with we want with 14 products, late July last year 2021. So we've been around now for about well, 10 months, and you know, everything that goes into building a business, right, but you know, from the creative products to the brand to the packaging, to raising the money, all of the things we went to go raise money the day before the day before COVID, like hit in my gosh. And you imagine it was you know what, a march 3 or something in 2020. And, you know, you we pivoted, we can come back to that. But, you know, I thought we would launch faster. But you know, things just happen as they're supposed to it gave us time over the three years to not only create all the products, but also we did a beta with our five day reset, which is what we're most known for. So with all of the 19 products that we created, they're all 19 are in the five day reset, which is really about resetting and nourishment and teaching people how to eat and doing it in a way that you're not starved and that you're really like it in fact, people always complain and say our five day reset has too much food. And that's intentional. Right? We you get over 10 things a day, right? Whether it's a matcha with collagen and tumeric and ginger and that's what I'm drinking. That's what you're drinking. My favorite thing I can I literally like it everyone here has been drinking it. It's so delicious. But that is how you start your day or the porridge or the bras for lunch and dinner or the smoothies or the afternoon lattes and the elixirs. It's an abundant amount of food. It's customizable so that you can add what you want and you know add some protein and veggies if you need that everyone is different and so we've really designed it such that it meets your unique needs. So to create something that was very, very different in the market, you know, took a long time and a lot of thought and whole supply chain and just the intricacies of building a business, let alone that launching with this many products and a very complicated packaging system and raising money. So that was really all that has gone into really bringing us to our launch date of July 22 2021. And it's been an incredible crazy wild ride.

Amy: 15:23

Yeah, we Well congratulations, first of all, because that's just such an inspiring story. And I can't believe you're only I knew you're new but I didn't realize you were that new or not even a year yet from launch and it's funny because I had seen Kroma I probably just have like a really targeted Instagram feed but I had been seeing ads and like you know, celebrities influencers showing the packaging and the brand. I was like, Oh, that's so beautiful. What is that. And then Karla from Vogue was on our show, and she talked about she was raving about Kroma. She was saying Karla Martinez Desalas as she was saying she was on it. And then her husband was on it. And she we a lot of times we'll do product reviews on the show. So she was like giving us a whole review of it. I'm like, we got to try it because I had seen it but I hadn't like talked to anybody about it. So she got us really excited about it. And thanks to you and your team, you sent us a one day and I to your point, the one day I didn't finish the packets either like this is still leftover from the Wednesday because I found it the same thing. So satiating that I wasn't hungry, I couldn't eat the whole thing. And I was like, the food is really delicious. And you're right, very, very different than anything we've seen. Yeah, just Congrats to all your success so far. Well,

Lisa Odenweller: 16:34

I just wouldn't listen, I'm gonna close on that with like, I just, I think healthy has to taste amazing. And so, you know, the passion that has gone into creating those products and, and also changing the conversation, I think for women has been a really big one. And it's meant to, but really, for women that we don't have to starve ourselves to look and feel good in our bodies is is really important to me, it's something I've myself has struggled with, you know, my own kind of, you know, just were so self critical and and, you know, dealing with weight things and have I got too much weight on or how do I lose weight and starving myself and doing all of the crazy things that we have we do as women. And I really decided to change sort of the psychology of that and really focus on the nourishment and teaching us that putting really healthy good food our bodies actually is how our bodies thrive. And probably our our bodies look the best. And of course, how we feel are our best. So just a side story on that when I when I was doing the beta, so the 130 people went through it. And I was amazed in the process, how many women asked me, they would always ask how many calories is it? And when I would say and this is just our culture, right? When I would say well, you know, you can choose between the lifestyle, the lean, or the active protocols. And depending on how which format you choose, it's really about intuitive eating. But realistically, you're going to have somewhere between 1300 You know, likely and 1800 Probably in that window. And every woman that asked me that said, Oh, that's too much food. Wow. And it was such a pause for me because I realized that that was me too. Like I was afraid of food. You know, I didn't know how to eat. And I thought they said Well, I've been trying to lose weight, you know, for five years and nothing's working. And I said, Well, we you trust the process. And sure enough, you know, by adding the nut milks to their lattes, or their porridge and maybe adding some protein and veggies to their bras and not restricting themselves, and and listening to their body, every one of them lost at least five pounds, some of up to eight pounds, nourishing themselves. And it was such a beautiful moment for them, you know, and then of course for me because it really is changing people's, you know, relationship with food. And I think that's just an important part of the conversation as far as just why we exist in Kroma. Yeah,

Amy: 19:00

it's super important. And it is it is a good mindset mindset shift and it's good to remember that because I think you're you're so right kidding, we were just talking about that earlier today. Like a can't lose like that pound or two or whatever. And I think to the older you get like I'm noticing the older I get it is just your body changes so much and just reacts so differently to foods that like I don't even know what to eat half the time because it's like I have a car by gained five pounds I don't have a car or I have a car by lose weight. Like I just it's really hard to know if what you're eating for your body is right or not right so like focusing on not that but the nourishment piece and making sure that you're getting what you need. It's like that constant reminder and that's really important.

Lisa Odenweller: 19:43

It is and it's also like I mean because we become we can become erotic and I'm like no one of them right. But then you know we I also have a mindset that it's not like we're going to live on Kroma all the time. I mean, I do have Kroma, you know, 567 times a day. But I don't worry if I go out for fun, you know, festive dinner and you know, have some wine or tequila or something, you know, I really look at it more of a balance. And I think that's just also an important part of that conversation. Right? It's it's not about that restriction. Interestingly, I was in New York a few weeks ago for work, and I was there for like, eight days. And every night you know how New York is when the food's amazing? Yeah, eating dinner, I don't think we ate dinner before. 930. Now I eat dinner at five at home like but no later than six. Right? We ate dinner at 931. Night was at 1230 after a show. And somehow I lost weight. And I was and I didn't wasn't restricted, like I ate anything I wanted, right? I had Kroma in the day. And then I did the dinners at night. And it was such, like, I just laughed, right? Because it was also because I was having fun. We were walking a ton, you know, and it was just like, just allow ourselves to enjoy, like, not be so neurotic about it. And, you know, it, it just is a constant reminder to me, you know, and my Kroma for sure definitely has helped supplement, you know, and works very well. Well, for me, and especially as I've gotten older, and Amy like you said it things change. Children and everything starts to change. Yeah, I think

Katie: 21:15

the the idea also of nourishment, it, it just allows your body to receive what it needs to be balanced, and to do all of the jobs that it's meant to do physiologically, in order to have the ability to stay healthy and to lose the weight and to for the metabolism to function properly and everything. It's really a genius idea. And you know what, I love that you did this with your daughter. And that's that's the coolest thing. I mean, working with her, what's that experience been like?

Lisa Odenweller: 21:44

Well, what's even cooler is she's 24 now, and she's been working with me since she was 13. So she started gaming with me, and you know, labeling bottles and, you know, packing teas and stuff when we started gaming out of the house, and you know, with her friends, and then working at the first Cafe when she was 14. And then at 16 She's She homeschooled herself by choice. And I moved to LA with me to open all the cafes there and manage to the Santa Monica location and at 16. So she's been on this entrepreneurial journey with me, you know, for now 11 years. You know, she did the, the she did College Online, and, you know, started to Kroma with me while she did that. So, I mean, we laugh. I mean, they that's probably almost my favorite part of creating this, this business has been doing it side by side with her, and all the experiences we get to have together, and the laughter and hopefully, you know, she's also learning a lot of things, you know, being side by side, the thing is, I do investor pitches, or I do podcast interviews, or all the different things that you know, she gets exposed to, because she

Amy: 22:51

also Yeah, it's an incredible experience. Oh

Katie: 22:53

my gosh, it's and also you're raising her with such like healthy values for body image and caring for herself and taking care of her body. And, you know, those are, like young girls are very impressionable, and it's very confusing, as they're, you know, my daughter's eight going on nine, and she's already starting to talk about going

Amy: 23:16

on 25

Katie: 23:18

You know, the word like, I'm fat, or I'm too skinny, or I'm gonna, you know, it's like the self image stuff comes out early. It really does. Yeah,

Lisa Odenweller: 23:25

that's Jeff with her body and food and much better than I did, you know, younger and, and so I She's got so much wisdom. And hopefully, you know, I'm part of some of that. But no, that has been a really great part of this whole experience.

Amy: 23:41

Yeah, that's now that she helped you with all the branding and packaging, which is gorgeous, and, and sexy. Like I said earlier, it's sexy. Yeah,

Katie: 23:51

sexy. And it was like that. That's exactly what it is. It's so beautiful. And it's sexy, and it's edgy, it's great. It's very enticing.

Lisa Odenweller: 24:00

I mean, we wanted you to have that sort of Apple experience, right. And we have, you know, we've got simpler packaging. And then we have the WoW with the drawer and the ones with the wheels and what's on Instagram. But I want health to be something that you are excited about that you look forward to. And so often, it's something we dread, because it's like, Oh, I gotta do this program for five days, and I'm going to be miserable, and I'm not going to eat. And I'm going to be a raving bitch, excuse my French. And you know, I'm not going to show up for my kids or my work or all these things. And that's sort of the mindset of what cleansing and detoxing has been over the years. And, and so, you know, all of our investors invested because they had done another program. I won't name it that they hated, but it was the only program on the market and they had an extra box in the pantry and they were so thrilled that there was something else that they actually got the same results actually better. And it changed habits and behavior, which is really what we're doing. It's not about a quick fix. So to get that Bob's going back to your question, Amy really is that Experience of, I get to do this, right? I want you to feel like this is a gift to yourself. And every one of the sachets, the 45 little packets, who has a message of education and inspiration that I wrote, you know that that is really just part of those little kind of little surprises, right, surprise and delights. And Lexi was part of all of that. She didn't design the branding and stuff, but she's been part of all of it, you know, through through every step of the way. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, I

Amy: 25:28

like that idea. You're right. It is like opening up a gift. Because it's so beautiful. It's not like all like, the palette of colors is gorgeous. And the packets, it's like, it's fun to open and you're like, Ooh, what's next? So that's, that's very smart. Question about so there's the one day which Katie and I did there's a five day is the five day that was pepper like, How do you How are people using Kroma? Are they using it as just like a detox or reset? Are they on it more often? Or they like How are people using it, and what's the best way for like someone to get started, if they don't, if they haven't done it,

Lisa Odenweller: 26:00

it was designed for lifestyle. So as I touched on earlier, I mean, I think of it as the five day leads to the every day, or leads to the habits, change of habits and behavior. i And I've always cared more about what happens after than, than the five days, because the five days is really where the awakening happens, you do the program for five days, you we all want that quick fix, you know, to kind of like look better, feel better, fast, right? And so it gives you that, but you're doing it in a way that you're also changing, like kind of having these awakenings through the process of like, God that tastes really good. Like I could eat this porridge every day, or you're a big coffee drinker. And but we didn't take caffeine away from you, because I know that that's going to give you headaches, you're gonna be miserable. And you'd go right back there on day six. So we're gonna give you caffeine, but we're gonna give you a healthier caffeine, we're going to give you matcha with all the college and the tumeric, and the mushrooms and all those things that hopefully, and seems to be the case people love it. And they end up converting to it after because they felt the difference. You've experienced it for five days in a row, you felt what it felt like to drink Matcha instead of coffee, I don't have an issue with coffee. But the point being is, I know that matcha is so much better for you, right and improves the mood and you don't have that crash and you have this kind of sustained energy and your mind is clear. I mean, I think it's the best mood enhancer on the planet. And it tastes delicious. So if that's how you get to start your day, you actually look forward to it and the porridge is delicious. And the cookie butter of course we're very famous for is to die for, to die for. And then the bras and so what happens is, is people are doing it, it was designed so you find the things that you love on the program, you get that quick fix, you know you feel better look better fast, but then you have all the tools to continue. And so you fall in love with the Masha, it's available to buy in bulk after you can use the porridge after you can incorporate the broth and the Greens powder and elixirs or smoothies or whatever it might be that you loved from the program that you could easily incorporate into your life. And so it becomes very lifestyle and easy transition. So that you have these new kind of hacks or tricks to to look forward to adding into your day, right. It's not an obligation, it's something people are excited to do. So the way people come into Kroma is really usually the five day that's, you know, our number one selling product. It's what people sort of have seen on Instagram for one, but it's also just sort of like, it really speaks to people wanting to to reset, you know, or start better habits or maybe lose a few pounds for something or just know that they've been off track and they need to get back on track, whatever the reason is, so that is our number one. And then that leads into those. Those lifestyle products. We call them daily essentials. And, you know, there's there's the favorites of many, which I mentioned that people love, and we just try to make it as easy as possible to transition. Because for someone who has been in the industry for so long, and I've watched these cleanses, the question I've always asked is what is the point? Like? Are we cleansing just to lose weight? Like to me, it's about a lifestyle wellness. It's not what you do five or 10 or 15 days a year because you did A a box cleanse for five days and you lost five pounds? Who cares? Like that's not where you have true? Well, you know, wellbeing and vitality and it's about like how do I transition this into my everyday life? So that is something that just sort of weaves into my life as opposed to this thing that I do, you know, a few days a year right? I've always really approached it beaming cafes with the same way is it started with a cleanse that led to this cafes that led to people incorporating it every day and and that way I think it just makes it much more approachable and realistic. And it's actually where real transformation happens.

Amy: 29:59

Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, I'm a healthy eater. But sometimes, you know, like you said, you get off track, like, especially now it's a summer, I feel like we're going out to dinner more, and I'm drinking more and eating more. And it's just like, sometimes even though I eat healthy, I still want something where I that I can always go back to like a reset like that, where I'm five days, and I kind of like, get it all out. And then I start integrating. I love that idea. And then you kind of take like, the porridge was amazing. And yes, the cookie butter is phenomenal. And the problem is, it's like how do you not eat the whole jar? Because I was just like, oh my god, this is incredible. I can't stop eating it.

Katie: 30:38

The cookie butter is really like an energy boosting, mood stabilizing, like sustained blood sugar balancing, like I would take some of that take a spoonful of it. And like 20 minutes later, half an hour later, I felt really good to go. And so are they they're called goji berries. Is that right? That goji berries

Lisa Odenweller: 30:59

in the porridge and in the cookie butter,

Katie: 31:01

it's so I love I've tried to eat them on their own before because I know they're supposed to be a superfood, I think are loaded with antioxidants or something you would know better than I. But in that cookie butter there, it's there like a game changer. It's so good.

Amy: 31:14

I know. It's like it's like the perfect technique.

Lisa Odenweller: 31:17

So it's almond butter, coconut butter, coconut oil, plant protein from Ecuador that I mentioned earlier. Goji berries, hemp seeds. So those are the main ingredients. And then there's just a little bit of maple sugar, a little bit of coconut sugar, and just enough to kind of give you that little kind of sweet fix. But yeah, being you know, high sugar because everything we do is very low sugar.

Amy: 31:40

And exact, it's a good thing to have after dinner too. Like if you just feel like you want a little sweet, you just have a spoonful and you'd like

Lisa Odenweller: 31:46

like I do the I had the beauty matcha. And then I have a because you can, I don't know if you guys do it when it's gooey, and just have it like a like a cookie butter batter. Or if you put in the fridge, you can have like little little protein mites. I love it gooey. So I have a bite of that, then I'll usually do an exercise, you know, whatever my workout is going to be. And then you know later because I'm pretty sustained at that point, then I'll have the porridge and weave into my day. But it is it's a fun product. And it's again, we're just trying to make healthy something that you really look forward to that it's a little bit of a surprise, like I get to have this really?

Katie: 32:17

Yeah, you're doing an excellent job of it. Because it's that's exactly what it feels like the plant protein. I haven't heard of that one. Can you tell me why that you've chosen that specific one? What did you say the name of it was again,

Lisa Odenweller: 32:30

it's called choco okay. So why I love it, and I'll kind of backstory to how I found it. But it's non isolates. So not, you know, doesn't have the processing that you know, protein and somebody that are proteins have. It's also non lectin. And a lot of people are really sensitive to lectins and don't even know it. And the problem with pea protein, which is the main plant protein that's in everything is most pea protein is highly, highly processed, you can find some that are not properly sprouted, but that's like few and far between. And it's really, really cheap product, which is why everybody uses it. And it's easy to formulate with. I am not a huge fan. So for me, I was on a mission to find other sources of plant protein. And yeah, there's so many now, Sacha inchi, and there's pumpkin. And there's hemp, and chia and rice and all these things, but each one of them have different kind of pros and cons. And so I just decided I sort of like put up to the universe, like, is there another option, and randomly kind of came across this choto. And it's all the things I was looking for, like really easy on the digestion, nine out of nine essential amino acids.

Katie: 33:46

It was my next each and that's amazing.

Lisa Odenweller: 33:48

And it's and it's it, it's so pure, and it's grown at 10,000 feet elevation in Ecuador, like it's not as easy to work with as pea protein, you know, from a from a flavor, it's pretty bland and flavor, which is a good thing. But as a kind of superfood chef, I guess it's harder, you know, to kind of get some of the flavor. So there was a lot of doctoring if you will to try to get some of the smoothies to taste really good because it's pea protein just a lot easier and a lot cheaper than Jojo, but the way I've approached Kroma and beaming has always been the best of the best. And so I will scour the world for the best ingredients and find things that people have never heard of, and then put combinations together that really bring together that flavor and function, you know, with the highest integrity, and that's just been something that's sort of a personal mantra of mine that I will I won't sacrifice.

Katie: 34:46

And that's also I'm sure why you've had so much success with it and why so many people keep coming back to it right the product is the quality is yeah, the utmost importance. It's amazing.

Amy: 34:56

I was going to ask you to what I noticed with the products is that or at least I haven't tried them all. But the ones that I tried, they're all like kind of soft and soothing, because let's like the broth and the elixirs and the matcha. Which I love. Is that intentional?

Lisa Odenweller: 35:13

Yes. I mean, I think it's designed to be a menu that easily fits into your day, right. And whether you have your matcha warm, iced or hot, it's totally up to you. You know, whether you you know, have your porridge warm or cold, it's totally up to you. So we sort of give it the flexibility versatility also seasonally, you know, so that you can sort of make it up. But I would just really want you to feel nourished. We want you to feel like when you drink that bone broth, right? I mean, it's so incredible, or the veggie broth, I think because that's in the one day, you just feel like you're doing something good for your body. Like you drink it. You're like God, I feel like satiated, I feel nourished. And you just sort of feel like it's a gift. And we want you to feel that way. So yeah,

Amy: 35:56

yeah, it's really filling. I was surprised. very filling. And yes, Si Si Si satiated. That's the right word she is.

Katie: 36:06

So I want to know what the future plans are for Kroma wellness. I mean, you guys are about to hit your year mark, which is amazing. Congratulations. So what's on the horizon?

Lisa Odenweller: 36:17

Well, I think when you launch with 19 products, I mean, we've got a new power mine performance coffee coming out in a few weeks, which is coffee with MCT oil and some oat milk and mushrooms and you know, sort of our super enhanced healthy coffee instant, of course. And we have our travel kits coming out which I'm so excited about. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, amazing. With and a lot of people buy our five day, we have a new refill that they buy, and they get the 45 sachets, and then they just take them with them, especially for the summer. It's perfect for travel. But the little the travel kits are something that we'll be able to have at airports, and we'll be able to have it, hotels and you know, different flex, obviously online as well, that are just your, you know, I think it's six sachets, and there's gonna be a little shaker thing that goes with it that just makes it so easy to travel with. So with travel kits coming out. And I think you know, the bigger vision obviously, for the brand, as we're just getting started, you know, when you not many people try to launch with 19 products. I don't recommend it not. Over we have five co packers and a very complex packaging system, as you guys have seen, and we have 45 Different color sachets, and someone has to hand place them in there, every different color. And so we didn't we didn't do this easy. And I think there's just so much more just on the education side. And really helping people understand, you know, what they're putting in their body, why they're putting it and you know, what, why, how to live this lifestyle. We have an app that we launched a few months ago. And we'll continue to build on that. And it's really there to support people in the five day in the one day. But we'll continue to evolve that and the educational side of this, for me is very, something I'm very passionate about. And will continue to innovate. I mean, I'm I'm a creator. So there's a lot of really cool products in in the mind that, you know, will will start to get teased out, you know, over the course of the year. And we'll continue to expand on that. But, you know, it's a lot. I mean, we having only been here for 10 months, and users just with learning the marketing side of DTC and even the way that I approached fundraising was very, very different and right, because you

Amy: 38:34

went from the physical world to the digital world completely. I mean, it's a

Lisa Odenweller: 38:38

very different world. Yeah, and I joke about that. I mean, there's, there's some not dealing with perishables and dealing with non perishables is much easier. But in a cafe, like, I know how to create an experience in a cafe, creating an experience online is very, very different. And people are, you know, short, short, short attention spans, you have two seconds to get their attention. And then they're getting, you know, getting hit from something all sides. So even just, I've been drinking out of a firehose, learning the DVC world and trying to build that team, you know, has been a different challenges than say, you know, running 10 cafes. And then I love the challenge of that, but definitely, you know, we're just, we're just building our team right now. Getting excited for the next chapter, we have the most incredible group of investors. They've been a huge part of our success to date and our go to market strategy, which was also part of my strategy when I was raising money and wanted to raise money from highly influential people. Whether it's a big celebrity like Gwyneth or Amy Schumer, you know, some of our other investors or the mom and the community, you know, people who would get excited about telling the world with us, and and they really all have and so a lot of our success getting it out there, as you mentioned early on, Amy and seeing it on Instagram has been just the support of that investor community. you and them telling their friends, it's very hard to launch a brand. It's getting harder and harder to do that. And so I really took it from a very different approach. And, and that's worked very, very well, to just getting getting the word out there. It's it's not easy to build these days.

Amy: 40:18

It's really smart. Let me speaking of your team, so the advisory team that you have I saw on your website will Kol and some others really notable people in the wellness space? Are they all investors too, or they play a different role in your company? Yeah,

Lisa Odenweller: 40:31

they do, actually, Dr. Will Cole, medical director. So he's also an investor, and just very committed and dedicated to to what we're doing. You know, even the celebrities, everyone was asked me well, like, do we pay that? Like, no, they actually, like they invested in the company, I woke up to an email one day from from Gwyneth saying that she had heard that I had a new wellness company, and that could I, you know, come over and share more, because she loved my last brand, you're like, Okay, well, then I'll say and it was it was a, it was a, it was sort of a dream moment, was not friends with her at the time. So through one of our other investors, they connect with us. And, and so it's just part of even bringing something to life is just being surrounded by such good positive energy, and we're 90% funded by women. And that's something I'm super, super proud of. And, you know, just having that support has been, you know, credible, because we have, you know, as we're, as we, you know, things are going really well, that's always amazing and having their support. But then also, as you have challenges come up, we are we've such incredible experts of all different, you know, facets that we're able to tap into that, to really help us kind of navigate through different challenges.

Amy: 41:46

It's also so nice that everyone it sounds like is in the same, what's the word I'm looking for, like ethos, and, like around wellness, which is nice to be around like minded people that you can have these conversations with and create things and everyone's sort of on the same page, which is unusual, because a lot of times when people invest in a company, it's it's just they're doing it for, you know, the financial return, but they're not doing it necessarily for the passion around wellness, or whatever it may be. So that's really special show,

Lisa Odenweller: 42:13

ya know, it makes a huge difference. And every one of the investors did the beta program, fell in love with the products, the experience of it, and then invested, you know, from from that. And so they are, you know, invested in, in the vision of the company, and what we're doing and the impact, and then of course, the upside potential as well. But it definitely makes a difference I have now having raised money for two companies, I made some big mistakes on my first one. And you know, I was new to raising money, I'd never done it before. And so I got to learn some hard lessons that I made sure not to repeat, you know, this time around. So

Katie: 42:50

it's very inspiring. I want to know, for our listener, because they're all gonna want to hurry up in order Kroma. Where should they start? Should they start? What do you think is? Or do you find most people go right into the five day? Or do you have a lot of people just dip their toe in with the one day what's what do you think?

Lisa Odenweller: 43:08

I think so again, it was designed to meet you where you're at, right? So if you're curious about launch, and you just want to try and launch because you've seen it, people talk about it, or we obsess on it on this podcast, it's a great place to start, you know, or the cookie butter or any others. But I really think that the way that you experience Kroma and then of course, the benefits of Kroma is to the five day. And there's three options. Now in the five day, there's the deluxe with the drawer and the really fancy version, which is an amazing, that's always how I recommend starting because you get the mug and the frother and the little hemp purse with a beautiful poem po on it, and you get a spoon and you get the coconut cream. So you get sort of the full experience and the chai, there's also the the signature, which is also the same program, it just doesn't have the drawer with all the extras. And then we have the new refill, which is a very, very simple packaging design. Mostly for people who have who've already done it before, and they've just really want the program they don't need the big experience. So yeah, I mean, any one of those, I mean, you guys got the one day and the one day is great. I think it's a great way if you're not fully ready or committed. And it was designed for people for that purpose. It was designed that maybe every Monday you do it, use it for travel, however, you know you that best fits for where you're at. But I think the five day it's really special. It is more expensive, you know, than some of the other programs out there. But it's also like we've been talking about very, very abundant, so you're going to have plenty of food leftover and you probably can keep going for multiple days. And it was designed for that versus you know, starving and you know, finishing day six and you can't wait for burgers and fries. So Right.

Amy: 44:52

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's all about that. nourishments before we get into our rap session, I wanted to ask you so outside of perma wellness Being that you've been in this space superfood space for so long and healthy eating and you know, all good foods, what have you, like? What's a tip you've picked up through the years like, for healthy eating that kind of would be helpful you think, to our listeners? Well, the

Lisa Odenweller: 45:18

basic like a basic one is I think that we don't. This is what came to mind. We, we trust marketing too much. And so when something says it's organic, or it's, I mean, you don't it makes me crazy, like hydration. I think I have him over here that these are not mine that came in the room. And this hydration company is super, super popular. And you look at the first ingredient, and it's cane sugar. And you know, and that makes me crazy. Right. And I so I think one of the great places to start is just read your labels. I mean, look at what's in your food. And, you know, understanding that it most stuff is not actually made very well, sadly. And to really kind of just take health into your own hands, like, ask questions, be informed, right, you don't have to be an expert. But you know, be, you know, be very curious about what's in your food. You know, something else I'll layer on to that is, I'm sure you guys and others have heard of all these glucose monitors, whether it's levels or it's neutral scents. And those are very popular. I cannot recommend enough how to get one and try it for two weeks or do it for a month. Because what you learn I have one on right now and I wear them all the time. Because I love I test my food, right we did it when we tested Kroma to make sure it didn't spike your glucose levels. Because the other program that's out there right now that's very popular spikes your glucose levels to 161 ad, which is really not healthy. Again, you think you're doing something healthy, and it's sending your glucose levels to through the roof, which is anti anything we want, right? Things that you'll learn, you know, you'll learn about everyone's bodies a little bit different, but there's things that you think are healthy, like oats, like oat milk, and oatmeal will send your everyone's glucose levels through the roof, right. And you don't want that. And I love oat milk, it tastes delicious, but I don't drink it because I know what's going to happen. And I may not physically feel it, a lot of times people can feel it. But I know it's working against me in my own health. Whether it's aging, weight loss, or just weight management even and you don't want these huge spikes. So I think the more you are educated, and just understanding how food affects you is is really a lot of what Chrome was about, but my own sort of personal awareness of just, then I can then I have control that I know and can make this you know, as opposed to just assuming that it's healthy, that it's good for me because a lot of times it's not.

Amy: 47:56

I never thought about wearing a glucose monitor. But Katie, this is right up your alley. You've been dealing with this for the last couple of weeks,

Katie: 48:01

I've been checking my blood sugar constantly all day long. And I'm about to order which one are you using on your arm?

Lisa Odenweller: 48:08

I haven't nutritions on right now. But levels is probably the more popular one, either one are great levels or neutral cents. And I there's a couple other ones that I'm thinking I'm blanking on now. But I think it's like even testing the food here. You know, I've been sort of educating the at this at this wellness retreat I've been educating them about as like, I think you should wear other monitors because you want to understand what the who is doing, you know, to your guests.

Katie: 48:36

The stabilizing of the blood sugar, right for the listener that maybe isn't aware like that's that's the point of knowing what food is doing. Like you said earlier, the spikes up and down. Because when your blood sugar goes really high, you then can crash very quick. Right? And then your body craves more sugar. So if you're getting like the wrong signals, right, is that is that how you would describe the reason?

Lisa Odenweller: 48:59

No. And it's and it creates this horrible cycle? You know, I mean, I love rice crackers, right? So cheese board with rice crackers like heaven, right? Those rice crackers will send my glucose I still choose to have them sometimes, right like, but I understand that that was a choice. And so just even having the awareness of it because that up and down cycle is really affects your kind of your metabolic flexibility. It affects you know, insulin levels, the impact is so, so much more significant than than we even understand. So what you want us to stay in that range, really in that 70 to 120 Most people jump I mean, I

Amy: 49:38

you could jump Yeah, I can imagine what minds that I'm sure it's all over the place.

Lisa Odenweller: 49:42

And if you see that on your chart, you're like, I don't think I'll read that again. And you know, and sometimes you will at big you know, right but at least you're educated or educated and yeah, sir, are those things I mean to kill a lowers your glucose levels, so that's exciting. So

Amy: 49:58

that's a good excuse. Have a

Lisa Odenweller: 50:02

modulo or is it? So there's definitely a few tricks tricks in here. But there's a long answer, but hopefully a little bit helpful.

Amy: 50:10

No, that's really interesting. I'm definitely going to try that. Katie, the product that you were talking about a couple shows ago illumine does that monitor your blood sugar, glucose to

Katie: 50:21

that, that just measures your co2, which tells you if you are in a fat burn state or carb burning state, so it's different than a blood sugar monitor. But yeah, I mean, also another amazing tool for data points. I do yeah. Yeah, I do like it. It's great.

Amy: 50:38

Do you like the loom? And Lisa? I haven't used it yet. But I think they commend sitting here. And we used to

Lisa Odenweller: 50:42

do there. Yeah. I mean, it goes back to the point of this conversation. And all that times. I'm like, because I'm working so much, and like, barely come out, like see the world. But I think that the point is, it's just that there's so many tools out for us, there's some of the problem is that there's so much information that we get overwhelmed. We don't do anything, right. So Trump just starting with a few things. Because, you know, being educated as is power, right, and then you're making mindful choices, you know, in all aspects of life. So, you know, I don't think you have to dive in as much as maybe we all do. But I think that there's enough tools out there. And that's part of what we do with promos, like, we're going to do it for you. We're gonna make it so easy. You don't have to think right. You don't have to think about like, Oh, here's the recipes I have to make today. Right? It's like, let's just make this simple. Because what I want you to do is have the experience that that inspires the curiosity for more.

Katie: 51:37

Before we go into our rap session, I'm just really curious, was there something in your life in your health journey that got you into that? What was it that that made you so passionate about this health and wellness and providing it for, for people for a greater cause?

Lisa Odenweller: 51:55

Yeah, no, thanks for asking. I think so. Starting with when I was, I don't know, probably as a teenager, I always wanted to feel like I had control over my health. Like I was always afraid, like, I wanted a doctor, and then they tell me something bad. And so I think I didn't really understand what that meant. But I didn't like not having control. I wanted to feel empowered with my health. Fast forward to about 38. And I went to the gynecologist and she, this is before, I mean, quite a bit older now. And I we weren't as educated as we are now there's still a long way to go. I went to that ecologist and I was gaining weight, my hair was falling out, I was having total brain fog. My work, I've always been very, very fit and very mindful about what I eat. But you know, I had a lot of inflammation and other things going on. And she laughed. I said, you know, what, what do you think's going on? Can we do some blood tests? And she laughed at me and she said, Oh, Lisa, you're just getting older. This is part of and I like I still like that makes me furious when I think about that. Because that was the answer of the of the Western doctor. And I was like, ya know, that answer doesn't work for me. And so I sort of many things kind of happened along the way that kind of led me on my journey to really understand food as medicine. And starting with just kind of making some simple changes, removing gluten and sugar and dairy, and things that are inflammatory. And in triggers that can that will absolutely impact everyone, especially as we get older that when we don't digest as well. And the body is not as optimized as it was maybe when I was younger, right? So just starting to make those simple shifts and seeing the impact, like all of a sudden, like I didn't need an indeed hormone medication, right. Like I actually never have taken hormones ever. Like I use food as medicine. There's a place for Western, but I just you know, I do take thyroid medication, I couldn't fix that one with food. But there is like we're so quickly go to the medication. And so for me, it was an awakening, I was able to heal myself and reduce inflammation, the foggy brain, the weight, gain all the things that she told me I was getting old, right, basically. And then there's another big catalyst one and for anyone who's a mom, and you guys can probably really will resonate. My daughter who I've talked about, she went on to add medication when she was nine. And at the time, I was not educated at all, she was 24. So this was you know, 15 years ago, and it made me crazy as a mom, I just thought this is not right. I don't why does she have to take medication I went to five doctors every one of them said there's no choice she has to take the medication. And in intuitively I knew it was wrong. But I didn't know what to do. So fast forward go she's on the medication for a year and all of a sudden it causes a mood disorder. So now the answer is we're going to put on mood disorder medication and now as a mother I'm like everything about this is wrong. So of course she goes on a mood disorder medication and now my daughter is like I mean I use the word catatonic like literally had no like bliss for life was just like robotic. And that's where you just say, No, this is none of none of this is okay. And that's when I really dove into really dove in. And that was the catalyst for starting beaming, actually was sort of it started with me things, but it really led to understanding that food, the food can either be medicine or it can be poison, right. And in the case of anything where there's add, or anything, you know, in the brain, it's things like gluten and sugar and dairy, and processed foods. I mean, we were feed their kids goldfish wholegrain. Goldfish, we thought it was good for them or weekends, right? We didn't know. So when you remove those things that are inflammatory triggers, or, God forbid, those, those goldfish and all the colors and the dyes, right, or sodas or something, right? You remove all of those, her brain worked fine. Within two weeks of taking all of that out of her diet. She never she she's never gone back on any medications. And he can feel a difference. She knows if she goes out and has pizza or pasta or something, she'd I feel the same to we, if we get in touch with our bodies, we actually can we know how we feel and how food affects us. And so that moment for me and seeing it was it wasn't I was angry, actually, I was angry at and medicine. But at no point in any conversation was there, hey, why don't we see if she's sensitive to food? Why don't we start there first, before we started medicating her. And that's a very, that's very common. I mean, we're making some breakthroughs. But we have so much further to go. And that sort of goes back to the beginning of what you asked me my, my why is I want people to be educated, I want people to take health into their own hands and to challenge and realize that it doesn't always have to come in a pill. And it probably starts with food, and we can do so much more healing with food. So it was through that, that I realized I have to I have to do something with this information. And I have to share it in a way that I can really have impact without being preachy, you know, without being you know, annoying, because then that's going to turn people off too. So I thought, well, I'll just create really delicious, healthy food that is really good for you and help you feel the difference. And then hopefully that builds on itself. But those that's really was some of the backstory of of how I dove into wellness, as is sort of my mission and why in life.

Amy: 57:30

It's actually a really interesting concept because both Katie's daughter has ADHD, and so does my son who's older now. And he did take medication when he was younger. And same thing, I didn't want him to be on it. But I didn't know what else to do. And I had heard about the food stuff, but I wasn't really sure. And as a boy, it's just like really hard to get him to do any of that kind of stuff. So he was on medicine for you for a few years. He didn't like the way it made him feel. And he went off of it. And he's able to use older and I think going through puberty and maturity, he's able to like now have strategies that help him. But I would love to I mean, I don't know how I get him at 15, almost 16 years old to like, listen to me with food, but you know, he eats fairly healthy, but then you know, it's also like the junk and the whatever, that all the teenage boys are eating. And it's like, I know that if he took some things out of his diet, like the sugar and the whatever, he would have so much more focus. But what I was thinking as you were saying this, I'm like, there's so many children with ADHD that are on medication that their parents don't want them to be on. Like, it's almost like you could have a Kroma Jr. for kids that same idea, but like more kid focus, where like they would want to take it because I think kids and parents would want to do that. There's just not a lot out there about it. It's like you can read stuff online, but you're not really sure. And to your point, none of the doctors asked that question. They're just like therapy and drugs. I mean, and it's, it's horrible. It's

Lisa Odenweller: 58:53

horrible. It's horrible. And I yeah, I know, you're, I understand sort of the pain of this and too, and yes, I mean, we don't know where to go. And it's it hasn't made it easy, and they're not. They're not helping us make the better decisions, right. So we have to go figure it out on our own. The way that I did it just sort of as an idea, because I have two teenage boys and one of them nosey as ABD. And it's very, it's been very difficult with him. But what I what I've done with the kids is, let's, let's, let's, you know, let's play a game. Let's let's have Let's experiment, like what would happen if we removed the gluten and the sugar and the dairy for two weeks? Because it's done in a in a in a controlled space, then they're like, alright, and they know, and then they get to feel how different it is. They get to experience Oh, wait, like my brain. It was a lot easier to do that test or it was a lot easier to read that that book. So they feel like they're part of that process. That's one way to do it. That's a great idea. Yeah. So you know, then then it's not like just taking it away. They get to really, you know, experience, you know, right.

Amy: 1:00:01

And then they can decide like, oh, that actually does make me feel better. And yeah, it's an accident

Lisa Odenweller: 1:00:07

on a conversation of add is that there is a clinic called the online clinic. And they have, I think they have in New York and they have long beach, it's a couple different things done, Daniel, Dr. Daniel, amen. But you can actually go and have your brain scanned, and find out that there are six types of ADD. And if you can understand what type you have, it also then influences the type of kind of healing or therapy for it. That's interesting, that's something that you know, you have access to or the means to do, I think that is the most, the, the most amazing way to sort of approach it and really have a knowledge, the food is foundational, right across the board. But then there's different things like omegas, or different supplements that you can use to actually help with the brain function that will kind of further further accelerate the the healing of it, and you can get to the point where you don't need it anymore. So there are a lot of tools out there. It's just unfortunately, not as is spoken about as we'd like. So

Katie: 1:01:15

I feel like we could talk about this for the next three hours. But we're excited to get to it. And I think way more important. Yeah, we need to have you back.

Amy: 1:01:25

Yeah. Let's give you our quick fire. Questions. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Even though you've told us a million? What's your favorite?

Lisa Odenweller: 1:01:33

I've such a broken record, the macho, like, says it like it just completely changes my day. And it's changed my health, and I have a mission to get the world to drink much. So that's it, love

Amy: 1:01:47

it. Love it. Okay, the next one we call our five minute flow. So you just got out of the shower, dried off, Uber alerted. You get the ping on your phone, you have five minutes to get ready and get out the door. What are your go to is like, What products do you throw on to just kind of like, get ready and get out of the door quickly?

Lisa Odenweller: 1:02:03

Oh, that's great. Um, oh, my gosh, what do I do? I'm the worst with brand. If it's brand name brands, I couldn't tell you what brands. So I started like the I did a podcast with Molly Sims. And she was like, I'm not going to tell you the beauty things like, you know them, you told me. So I always will have I mean, I have this new I wish I had it here like I have this new face stuff that I've been using that is like, changed my skin. And this was so mean for me to say this, because I cannot tell you what it was like the biggest tease. I'll try to remember that you can put in the notes. But what does it look like? I probably don't even know. It's like from France, and Georgia Louise. She's a esthetician that works with a lot of my investors. And so I had a thing with her. And she basically put all and I've had bad skin my whole life. So this has been like transformative, the matcha. And this has been transformative. And so whatever these products are, that will add in the notes later. I have to have mascara, I have to have lipstick. And I always put some sort of like tinted, you know, sunscreen moisturizer on like, those are like yeah, and then my eyebrows. Those are like my, if I only have a few minutes to get out. Lots of times I'll have my hair in a ponytail. Just because I don't have time to do it. And I live in VR clothes. Like that was my my go to if I don't have to be like, you know, fully dressed up which these days I think, you know, we don't

Katie: 1:03:33

the expectation none of us do. Right?

Amy: 1:03:35

Oh, I know. Like totally.

Lisa Odenweller: 1:03:39

I don't know if that was helpful, but I will find out the name of some of these products. Yeah,

Amy: 1:03:42

no, no, that's great. Fun. It's always just fun to hear different routines. And then how do you maintain your daily nirvana? You're so busy?

Lisa Odenweller: 1:03:50

Oh, I don't know that I do, honestly. And so I think what I try to do is, is it my days are crazy, you know, and as passionate as I am, you know, doing what I'm doing and being able to have impact as we are. It's hard, you know, and it's, it's stressful. And so, for me, I have to constantly, you know, be in gratitude, you know, for the support we have from my business partner who's Rockstar, and I could never have done this without him for being able to work with my daughter side by side, you know, for all the good and the magic that happens every day. And so, amidst the stress and other frustrations of just building a business and running a company. I do I do try to laugh a lot. Which that's like sort of a huge go to for me for nirvana. Because exercise doesn't matter. You know, like I find the time I find the time for connection with people like that fills my soul. So I guess these are my Nirvana moments. I mean, being here with these people and laughing and making these friendships has been magical and seeing my girlfriends, I will make time for that, you know, going for a walk or hike with a friend. It, the list of to dues will never end. And there's always a million more things that I should be doing. But I do make sure to take that time to to take care of me. Otherwise the stress would be too much and and then I can't be well, I can't be in wellness, I can't take care of me. So that right that's

Amy: 1:05:28

so true. Well, we we end the show with a mantra always. So Kate is gonna get her mantra ready. But I just wanted to thank you so much for all the time you've given us. We feel like I said, we could talk for hours. But we'd love for you to come back one day and keep educating about super foods and healthy eating and all of this stuff. Because it's just so important. We want to keep talking about it. And just really, really appreciate all your time and all the knowledge and value you've given us today. It's been so inspiring and exhilarating.

Lisa Odenweller: 1:05:54

Well, thank you I've loved the conversation. And I just so appreciate getting to know you guys and having the opportunity to share and and hopefully, you know, there's some tidbits of of ideas or information that people can walk away with as well. And I'd be honored to come back.

Katie: 1:06:10

You left us with so much. So this one I think really speaks to your passion Lisa and your ambition and how hard you've worked and everything that you've created. It's I can hold both contentment, and ambition in my heart. I think it's a good reminder, like we don't always have to be just because we're shooting for something doesn't mean we're not happy where we are. And just because we're happy where we are doesn't mean we can't try for more. So there you go. So Lisa, thank you so much. I love that.

Lisa Odenweller: 1:06:40

Thank you so much. That was beautiful. I love that.

Amy: 1:06:44

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 56 - VAGUS Not VEGAS! How TO Maintain Your Nervous System With Jessica Maguire Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 56 - VAGUS Not VEGAS! How TO Maintain Your Nervous System With Jessica Maguire Part 2..

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation on sister's family. This week, we continue with Jessica McGuire talking about vagal tone and repairing your nervous system. And this part two episode, we get advice for helping to regulate children's nervous system, especially children with maybe autism, ADHD, and so on, Amy gets real time advice on her vestibular migraines and how it could potentially be tied to the nervous system. Jessica also helps us understand what different dysregulation look like for different people and the various ways that we can regulate our nervous system. We hope you enjoy this super interesting episode with Jessica McGuire. We found it to be so educational and really, really interesting. It's a completely different way of looking at how to manage one's stress. It's a new way that not a lot of people talk about and we think it can be really, really helpful to so many people. So we hope you enjoy.

Amy: 1:28

I have a question about I guess a symptom of not being regulated could be headaches or dizziness, because I have the similar migraines. If you know what that is. And they were really bad a couple years ago, they're much better now. But is that related? Because I have a feeling it probably is like I was off and probably needed to do things to help it. But are you familiar with that?

Jessica: 1:51

Yeah, there's some good research that shows there is some connections there, because of the vagus nerve connects like it's a cranial nerve, which you would link cranial nerves with other cranial nerves winds migraines. So particularly with the vestibular system, so as it comes up around the ears, it's connecting with other cranial nerves there. So they've shown that lower vagal tone can present as things like tinnitus, headaches, migraines, that kind of thing as well. But also there'd be the inflammatory links. So the vagus nerve can influence our level of inflammation. And that's if we'd love able to and we sometimes see these chronic things come up, such as migraines

Katie: 2:38

interests, or anything that you can do that like it, like if someone so for me example, what could she do to help with her vagal tone now that you know, she has a vestibular migraines, maybe the person, the listener is hearing this and they're saying, Oh, I'm I'm on the higher end? What like, what's something that they could do that could help them? I saw that you mentioned play on your Instagram page playing like a kid again, like these, you know, these these little things that we can do at home? Does meditating help? What are any things that our listeners could do? Sure.

Jessica: 3:13

So it would depend as well, I would be worried, like Amy and I were to look further, we would say, Well, what looking at what stage she would spend most of her time it really triggered her nervous system, does she have dysregulation? Or does she she's experiencing a lot of anxiety at that time. So again, I would be looking in that framework of the window of tolerance to see where that you know, where should be resting play is one of the best things because you you are working with your nervous system in the state where you have that sympathetic nervous system coming in, or the fight, the insane energy that leads to fight or flight is that mobilizing energy that is in play, but with play the vagal brake or the vagus nerve is still working. So you feel excited, energized, you feel that mobilization through your body, but it's not moving into a threat, because you've got the vagal brake fit. So play is great. It can be with kids. I mean, if if as an adult you find things with certain friends playful like comedy, it could be just taking funny photos. It could be going and doing something like a hike together and you know, really having that group laugh, banter, but reciprocity where it's back and forward is really what helps because when you say it's the same as speaking and listening, when you talk, your vagal brake releases slightly. When you listen, it comes back on slightly. So whilst we can say okay, let's do these things that are inside the window, where our nervous system learns and things will change is when you actually have some stress in your nervous system. So that's where we want to for some people excitement gets interpreted as anxiety. It's like almost like this, oh my god, this is so great. Oh, my gosh, I'm feeling so many things that I can't like keep it in check. So then it turns into like a racing heart and things. So, so we we do want to use it when, if we were to say that to you the answer to your question before? If so, Amy knew that she moved into anxiety whenever she went to family functions, let's say for instance, well, that's the time where we'd want to be saying, Okay, how can she keep herself just under that edge of her window without moving into anxiety? Now, that could be that she holds her husband's head or that she looks at him and they take like, a moment to be like, together, it could be that if she if she checks in with her shoulders, and a jaw is clenched, and she's holding like this, she goes, Okay, I'm gonna just I've not, I'm starting to notice that this is what I do is an automatic pattern, I'm going to undo that pattern and start to come back down. One of the things that I think is really helpful is using if then statements. So it's like, if I go to the family function, and I start to get anxious, I'm going to go outside for one minute and just, like walk with my feet on the graph, and really pay attention to those adaptations. So whilst there's a lot out there that we can see that says, this is going to help with the vagus nerve. It's, it's not really that powerful, unless we're experiencing stress. And we teach our survival brain, which is the part that detects threat to respond in a new way. Right? It's like, you know, we can all be very chill while we're on a meditation cushion, but then leave and drive out into traffic and completely.

Amy: 7:06

And so it's not trying to keep yourself calm all the time. It's knowing how to keep yourself calm in a stressful situation, and having the tools and strategies to do that, which I think I've learned over time. And I think, you know, that's a really important piece to it. Now, do people take, like, in extreme cases, do people take medication to regulate their vagus nerve? Or is it more just behavioral things.

Jessica: 7:32

So this is interesting, because when you look at what we call the gut, brain axis, that's how the vagus nerve runs from communicates from the gut up to the brain. And a lot of what it's communicating is coming from the gut microbiome, and the what we'd call the enteric nervous system, which is the nerve all the nerves in the belly that they might call the belly brain. And so some recent studies have shown with taking things like say antidepressants that helped to improve the level of serotonin, when the vagus nerve was cut, they stopped working. So it's interesting that we know that things like serotonin, taking those will or taking antidepressants will help in the short term, you know, that will help to improve people's mental health, but long term, it doesn't necessarily improve things. So is that that serotonin, serotonin, helping improve the function of the vagus nerve and what's being communicated? Or can you influence our own serotonin? So I think this is where it's useful to look at the vagus nerve as like this highway that's communicating what's happening between our gut and our brain. And we can also do a lot to change or rebalance, like what the how the microbes are working because they are what produce things like serotonin, GABA, which is an anti anxiety neurotransmitter, as well and dopamine. So we can we can still have a big influence on the balance of our gut and the vagus nerve will communicate that upwards. But in terms of medication specifically for the vagus, not really, it's more that the medication treats the end stage. So like inflammation, pain, you know, people use proton pump inhibitors for the gut, but a lot of that can be poor vagal tone. So unfortunately, a lot of them probably just mask what's going

Amy: 9:35

Yeah. And I think, you know, culture, people will say, you know, you hear it all over the place, like, Oh, I'm stressing to take a Xanax, you know what I mean? And like, that's very common, unfortunately, that is how people are coping with their stress me included sometimes if I need to, right. And I think it's really important to figure out ways to not rely on something like that to kind of get you back into your zone, if you will. Yeah,

Katie: 9:59

and I do I love that the tools that you were saying it feels like it's kind of like mindfulness practices like checking in. There's this book that I read to my children. That is, it's called ion peace. And it's just this little story all about this guy that is he's tuning into himself, like, right now I can hear the wind and the trees are bustling. And I can feel the grass underneath my feet. And I can, and it's like, just kind of checking in, like you were saying, Alright, my shoulders are really tense. Let me drop my shoulders. My I'm, maybe I'm breathing too fast or talking too quickly, let me slow it down. So is it is that kind of a good way to sum it up? It's tuning into yourself in these moments of stress, and recognizing these stress habits, and kind of shifting them. I think that's

Jessica: 10:49

a big part of it. But for some people paying attention to sensation, so we're already close to panic that can make them worse. Really, knowing where you are on that stage. So yeah, we hear a lot of like, just to breath work. If someone does breath work, when they're panicked, they are going to just feel a million times worse. It's a bit like saying, and I wish there was a simple answer to say it's just this, but the part that I keep coming back to when people are like, but isn't there just like one or two things? And it's

Katie: 11:24

really not? Because no, of course, yeah,

Jessica: 11:27

depends on each person. But for some people that will help you know, in the, in the ability to go, Okay, I'm going to focus my attention on this, like that can certainly help. But for other people, it could be things like, I need to move my body, or I need to use ways where I'm out in nature, or I need other people or it's, it's having like this enormous tool toolkit that you can go through and say this is going to work for me today. I mean, there's things with music that some people find regulating, that doesn't involve paying attention at all to anything, it should just be having the music there. And they've shown that we've children with autism, that that has been a really useful way to engage the vagus nerve. And it's having good effects for bringing that nervous system regulation. So mindfulness is good, I guess the part that I just caution people with is if they are really dysregulated, mindfulness has shown that it can potentially make the dysregulation last longer, because you might be paying attention to say, like a racing heart, or butterflies in your tummy. And if you've paid attention to that, it's almost like it's telling the brain there's danger. So this is where we need to know our system. And what works because I've worked with a lot of people who've had a history of like traumatic stress, and they just can't meditate. And they keep getting this message, like just meditate just mentioned, that well, doesn't work for them. So

Amy: 13:04

it's a little bit like, so those type of people need to find another method to help them get regulated, for example, exercise or play or something else. Yeah, I was gonna say, too, because Katie mentioned, kids, and you were talking about autism, etc. I was going to say, I'm sure, this could be the case for many children, especially like teens, because you know, going through middle school or high school is stressful. They're just not able to identify that it could be often. So what do you suggest for like, kids who may have a dysregulated? Tone? Because I would say, there's probably a lot I mean, you hear of so many, like, mental health challenges with kids nowadays. So I'm just curious for our listeners, if they have kids, they think that might have dysregulation and how they could help.

Jessica: 13:54

Sure. Yeah, it's very interesting. And a lot of the research has been with kids. So a lot of this stuff is so relevant, but it's helpful to look up. The babies aren't born with the ability to self regulate. So they actually rely on parents to literally calm their nerves. So the part of the vagus nerve, that's that vagal brake, it's got like a electrical insulation around it, and that is formed, or it's not formed up until we're about three or four years old. So there for kids who are like premature or maybe don't get that really good co regulation, they're more likely to experience anxiety. And there was even a study showing that adverse childhood experiences correlated with chronic illness later in life. So they followed these kids right through. So that was just to reiterate what happens early on in life is like setting up that person for for the rest of their life. So spending time with CO regulation is really important. But that's what I would say is probably the main part is the CO regulation. So using the voice using torch soothing, like that will have a faster effect. And then a lot of we the things we kids, like I mentioned before, the research is really interesting with music. But mid frequency music was shown to that's played has been shown to help kids access that part. But the back and forth of clay will work really beautifully. Even if that's like throwing a ball back and forth, like doing something where there's like, let the excitement build, bring it back down. There's ways to of course get them to tune into, like what's happening in nature, what's happening around that we spoke about as well. And really, like if we just say, okay, you know, the, my child is really up, I'm gonna go out and discharge some of this energy. Or it might be if they're flat, like getting them to like use things like stomping or slowly bringing that energy back up. So you're really looking to down regulate, or up regulate, the kids will always respond best with that CO regulation, because their little systems are forming through it. I mean, even the centers in their brain to do with regulation formed through that back and forth. Communication, new parents.

Amy: 16:39

Yeah, I was gonna say because earlier, we were talking about procrastination, and like, I'm thinking about my older son who's 15, and a bit of a procrastinator, but also has ADHD. So like, sometimes he can be flat or like super lazy, but again, I don't know if he's lazy, or he's just not like regulated. And maybe he needs to, like, get up and do something, which a lot of times we'll say like get up and go outside. And then when it comes back, and he's like totally fine. Yeah, so it's

Jessica: 17:06

an example. Yes. And like getting in with people, I think like because if there's that flatness and procrastination, people tend to withdraw a little bit and not want to go and do anything, it just becomes like a cycle. So it's like for us if we feel that flatness and that sense of, there's almost a little bit of a feeling of helplessness or hopelessness with it. But once we get back out, and it can be just even going to get a coffee or going to a park where there's a lot of people that will help to bring the system back up for sure.

Katie: 17:41

Yeah, I find it interesting. It this was talking about Jackson AMI son, it just reminded me of what you were saying earlier how people pick up on other people's dysregulation as well, like in, in my house if I'm stressed and like, you know, running around and reactive. The next thing I know, like, so are my kids, and then like my husband starts to get that way. And then the whole house gets really you can just like feel the stress levels rise. Yeah, in the house. Yeah. So it's, it's really interesting. So

Amy: 18:12

our next family dinners are gonna be like, Okay, we're gonna regulate, and our kids are gonna be like, what the hell you're talking about

Jessica: 18:20

100 does happen. And I think it's like, we need to not be too hard on ourselves for you know, getting stressed, because it's not stress is not going to ever go away. Like, it's always going to be there. And it

Amy: 18:35

can work for you in some in some ways. I think

Jessica: 18:38

that that sense of getting out of our comfort zone in some ways where we are on that edge of like, Ooh, this is scary. And then we can cope with whatever it is we actually do strengthen our ability to stay regulated under stress. So there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's more, I love that when people understand this framework, they stop blaming themselves. So it's like with your son, if it's procrastination, and underneath that is a sense of like he's you know, feeling particularly with ADHD, then changing the state will change that behavior. And this is why this stuff is so great for cues, but also we can give ourselves just a little bit of grace. Like, Katie, if you said from that year that you had your nervous system learned to be more sensitive to cues of danger. Because it was you know, having a hard time, but some of the time, that means we just then unlearn it through using those practices where we show, okay, I'm scared, but if I can, and if that's what you're saying what works for you where you're like, Okay, I can drop through my body. I can pay attention to what's here, and you just bring yourself down a little bit. Even though you it's still challenging you intact I can teach your system not to be as sensitized. So it's amazing dynamic.

Amy: 20:06

I have a silly example. But I was very proud of myself last week because I had to get a root canal. For the first time, I had like, really bad, it was one of those I had like really bad pain. And so I had to go to the dentist. And then he was like, you have to get a root canal, like, whatever. So go to get the root canal was like on the same day. And as soon as I got it, like, they put something in my mouth, and I felt like I couldn't swallow. And then I started panicking. And I noticed that my shoulders went up. And then I said to myself, Okay, your shoulders are up, like, move them down, breathe, and it like completely helps me and change me. And I was telling my friend, I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm so proud of myself that I like, got through it. Because normally, I'd be so anxious the whole time I like somehow managed to get through because I just noticed that physical symptom of me like raising my shoulders. It's just, that was just an awareness thing. But yeah,

Jessica: 20:55

amazing,

Amy: 20:56

silly example. But we relatable. Right? That's great. Yeah.

Katie: 21:02

This is so incredibly fascinating to me. And I feel like we could, I could personally pick your brain for hours. But really quickly, if you could explain a little bit your program that you do you work with your clients, and how our listener could get in touch with you to work with you.

Jessica: 21:19

Oh, great. Sure. So we have a few different programs, one that we have coming up very soon is our gut brain access program. So it's looking at, specifically the gut, and how that influences anxiety, depression dysregulation, and also how we can rebalance that microbiome to improve the functioning of the vagus nerve. So that is a six week program. It's not really about having to go on a diet and overwhelming ways to change your life. We just have found the through the science, what works and put it into recipes, so people can just integrate it. And it's matched to the States as well. So it's what works for you. That's one program. And then we also have a two hour masterclass that we run, that is a good overall introduction, and just gives you enough to go away get practicing on your own, and learning to really widen that window that we spoke about.

Katie: 22:21

Yeah, I think I'm going to be signing up for the two hour master. It sounds great.

Amy: 22:26

Where can people find you on Instagram? Because I know that, um, you have a lot of really great videos and information that I found to be really helpful.

Jessica: 22:34

Oh, thank you. So our handle is repairing underscore, the underscore nervous, the school system? Don't worry. It's really long. But yeah, there's a lot over there. We do. We do love to share a lot on on Instagram, we found that our audiences very, very excited to keep learning more. So it's been a lot of fun to, to to share this information with people over there as well.

Katie: 23:02

Yeah, your content is great that it is it's so for the listener, it's so incredibly informative. And you give a lot of great tips and educational information that really helps break it all down. I love I love your content.

Jessica: 23:16

Thank you so much, Katie. All right.

Katie: 23:18

So why don't we kick it into our rap session? Amy, do you want to? Sure. tip us off?

Amy: 23:25

Yes. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Jessica: 23:32

Ah, I'm gonna go wellness just because I would say that beauty is not my area of expertise. Favorite beauty had a wellness hack would have to be I would definitely say the right people around would be the biggest key to wellness. So leaning into people for support, but also for play and for fun as well. So yeah, I would say that would be the biggest wellness. I love that.

Katie: 24:00

Yeah, surrounding yourself with the right people. Yeah, the energy right everyone's energy when you're picking up on it. Alright, this next one we call it the five minute flow to first of all, do they have Uber in Australia? You do right?

Jessica: 24:15

There's not much in our area like you often go to order them and you'll understand the

Katie: 24:22

question part of the flow. Yeah, so you just got out of the shower and dried off Uber just alerted you there five minutes away. What's your quick beauty routine? What are your go twos your holy grail is to get yourself ready and out the door and in that car,

Jessica: 24:35

five minutes. So I would definitely want to just do some deep cut fill in brows you know, because if you've got polished eyebrows, you kind of feel like you've got your act together and you're really organized. And then probably just looks of you know, like something like a bronzer or an ad coverage. I could just rub on my face but that still gave it a bit of a glow. Nice. Oh, we're just thinking if there's anything else five minutes, I think my time would be up if I had to do any more.

Katie: 25:13

The last one we want to know is how do you maintain your daily Nirvana,

Jessica: 25:18

I really think it's tuning into that those rhythms of the nervous system that I was speaking about before. So just being aware that I tend to want to go, I can do that, I can do that, I can do that. And then it gets to, like, I'm overwhelmed here. So knowing that rather than pushing through, that's the time to actually take a break and get outside, it's probably my main thing. So where we live, it's not far to a river and it's only like, a two minute walk and, um, just go down, have a walk, and then be able to keep working, I think through wisdom, you kind of learn to that your physiology is more powerful than your ability to keep trying to push. And so I listened to that physiology now instead of trying to override it. And that is how I would say much more insight that we know we talked about.

Katie: 26:09

Yeah, that's the key for sure. Yeah, it's so fascinating. It's like being in tune to your body on a level that I have never talked to somebody about before. I mean, it's it really is like You must be so in tune and in touch with with your body. It's I'm I'm hypersensitive, I feel everything in my system all the time. It kind of drives me crazy. But at the same time, you can use it to your advantage. And I just feel like I could learn so much from you. So I'm signing up for their class. Learn more.

Amy: 26:43

This was amazing. And so eye opening. So thank you so much for joining us.

Jessica: 26:47

All right. He's absolutely loved hanging out with you both. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun. And I love that he was so enthusiastic to learn all about this. So thank you. Yeah,

Amy: 26:58

I think our listeners are really gonna like this. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 55 - VAGUS Not VEGAS! How To Maintain Your Nervous System With Jessica Maguire Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast, Episode 55 - VAGUS Not VEGAS! How To Maintain Your Nervous System With Jessica Maguire Part 1.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome to this week's episode Nirvana sisters family. This week we're speaking with Jessica McGuire who focuses on your vagus nerve. Now, I had never heard this term before we spoke with her so don't worry if you don't know what it is. We will cover it all in this episode. But Jessica McGuire's passion for health led her to a degree in Health Science. Jessica McGuire has studied neurophysiology throughout Europe, America, the UK and Australia. She has learned from pain researchers, professors and neuroplasticity neuroscientists and physiologists on how the brain and nervous system change from stress, trauma and chronic pain. Her postgraduate study has led her to further qualifications and clinical mindfulness, trauma sensitive biofeedback, polyvagal theory and the use of Transcutaneous, Vagus Nerve Stimulation. Say that twice. So this episode is really to just open up your aperture on what this means and how to train your vagus nerve, which seems to be something that regulates the whole body. And this nervous system really dictates a lot of how you're feeling, which I didn't really think about too much. So this is really eye opening. For me again, Jessica really is an expert in this space in this vagus nerve and your nervous system. So Jessica believes that knowledge is power and that we are all empowered when we have the autonomy and reshaping our mind body systems. So her specialty now is really teaching patients about the vagus nerve, their nervous system and how stress related illness such as anxiety, depression, gut disorders, autoimmune issues, chronic pain can arise from dysregulation after chronic or traumatic stress. So she uses her vagus nerve masterclass, as well as her vagus nerve program to help people get to the cause of their problems rather than just relying on others to treat their systems. So we try to really break it down in layman's terms during this episode to understand what we can do on an everyday basis to help manage our vagus nerve and our nervous system. Enjoy the show.

Katie: 2:34

Well, Hi, Jessica, thank you so much for being here. It is great to have you all the way from the other side of the world. Jessica is dialing in from Australia. So we're so excited to have you and you are in our future that is tomorrow for us with you. That's right. Yes,

Jessica: 2:53

I am. Hello, thanks so much for having me.

Katie: 2:56

We're so excited to have you here. This is such an interesting topic. So before we get started, we'll start with our nirvana of the week. Amy, do you want to kick us off with that?

Amy: 3:08

I can. So I would say my nirvana of the week was this weekend, I had a really good friend's wedding. One of my husband's best friends from growing up. Definitely got married later in life. So we haven't had a wedding in a long time. And we haven't seen a lot of our friends. Obviously, with the pandemic over the last few years. We haven't all been together in one place. So it was just so fun to all be together. The wedding was in New York City and it was just an amazing weekend and spending time with friends and basically friends who are like family and just being all together under one roof. Celebrating a good occasion was just really beautiful. So yeah, that was my nirvana of the week. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 3:44

That's really nice. Mine what we had ours yesterday, we have a pool for the first time ever moving into a new house this past fall. And we used it as a family with our first pool day. And it was just so nice with the kids seeing them jump in and out of the pool. And it was just really relaxing. Like it was a little glimpse into what you know, many days are gonna look like ahead. So it was it was lovely. What about you? Jessica, do you have a nirvana of the week?

Jessica: 4:12

Yes. My husband and I picked out a new puppy. So we we are getting a Golden Retriever puppy in mid July. I talked to the breeder and she's been sending me lots of puppy spam every day of this really cute little puppy, but we're really excited to pick it up in region wide. And yeah, I keep looking at these photos sort of melting every time I look at them, and it's already Bringing lots of joy before it's even arrived.

Amy: 4:44

Oh, that's amazing. I feel you on that. I just got a puppy. Well, she's eight months now but you know, she's still definitely very much a puppy. She's a she's a Labradoodle. She's actually an Australian Labradoodle. So the brief comes from Australia. She's amazing. Are you getting Boyer or girl do not know yet.

Jessica: 5:02

Surprise, it'll be nice. She can match them with us, I thought it would be better.

Amy: 5:10

Exactly. That's the best because then they match with your temperament what you're looking for. So that's exciting. Well, that's awesome. Well, again, welcome to the show. We wanted to start off with a way to introduce you to our audience and have them get to know you a little bit more. So we're just going to do a fun little quick, this or that. So it's going to be super quick and just answer with your first instinct. Okay, so massage or facial message, beach retreat, or mountain retreat, beach or trading, coffee or tea, coffee, Salty or sweet. So I know that's a hard one. I'm like, wait, both. Great. So Thanks for Thanks for playing our quick game. And we will get into it. I think, today's a really interesting episode, as Katie was mentioning, I know she's been super passionate about this topic for a long time, I really don't know much about it. And I don't think our listeners do either. And I know you're all about the vagus nerve and explaining and helping people with symptoms. So can you help us to kind of give us a one on one, what is the vagus nerve tell us about the work that you do and why it's important and what people should know about this topic?

Jessica: 6:19

Sure, I'd love to. So I guess one of his one of what we call the cranial nerves, it's starts out in the brainstem. So if you ran your hand on the back of your head, you'd feel a little bony ridge. And then if you went inwards from there, that would be the brainstem in that base of the skull region. And it joins the spinal cord. So it starts out there, and it goes down both sides of the body with branches coming into the face, the heart and the lungs. And then it's got a lot of branches about 40,000 that go down into the gut. So it's, it's not sort of one nerve as what we've seen a little bit in like, you know, we can just influence this one nerve, because there's a series of connections that communicate between the brain and the body. But then it's got communication that runs back up from the body to the brain, as well. So it's a bit like this ongoing feedback loop that you can't sort of separate. And we'll see from how its anatomy, what its role is. So the branches that come down into the heart will slow our heart back down. After say we've had something stressful, slow our breaths back down, because it comes into the lungs. And the branches that go down into the gut touching nearly every organ will affect how those organs function, but also things like our immune system and inflammation as well. But because of its role with our nervous system, our autonomic nervous system, we say, which is how we detect if things are dangerous or not. It's really involved with our emotional health as well. So it has a rolling both at the same time. But it's such an important topic because particularly with chronic conditions like chronic anxiety, chronic gut disorders, which are just so prevalent now. And chronic pain, were really saying that the vagus not working well can be what lies at the heart of that. And so what I saw when I was working in clinic, was a lot of patients presenting, where they'd say, Well, nothing's showing up on a test, but I have this gut problems, I have this pain, or I have this anxiety that's ongoing. And, you know, I don't know why it's sort of functioning this way. And that's where it can really be a missing key for a lot of people.

Katie: 8:54

That's literally the story of my life. It's wild. So the vagus nerve is is that the, the central nervous system? Is that what, like the center of the central nervous system? Am I understanding that correctly? or No?

Jessica: 9:10

Sort of what what that divided? It's a little bit tricky because we the biomedical model has divided the body up into separate systems, you know, it's sort of like tried to say the body's like a machine with separate parts. So technically, what was labeled as the central nervous system is the brain and the spinal cord. And then I'd say the autonomic nervous system is the vagus nerve, and another part, which is called the sympathetic nervous system, but in reality, you can't separate them. I mean, the vagus is running up into the brain, and then it's got projections going up that influence our thinking. It's just this one continuous loop. But the old sort of paradigms that people looked at were like, Okay, let's separate brain and body you know, like This is a mental health issue. This is a physical health issue. But we can't really do that anymore. It's not sort of in line with science. So technically, it is part of that autonomic nervous system. But it is in a continuous feedback loop with the central nervous system.

Amy: 10:18

And it all sounds like it all works. Yeah, it all works together. So and what is what is the vagus nerve responsible for like, is it your regulator of stress? Or like, what is it do in your body? I guess it sounds like Yes, sure.

Jessica: 10:35

So we can look at, for example, if we are in like a calm regulated state, we will feel that we have part of the vagus nerve working that runs from the brainstem. And it goes down to the pacemaker of the heart. So it's actually like riding a bicycle downhill. And you just keep a little bit of the brake on with your fingers, just so you don't go too fast. It's actually doing that to us all of the time. So we, if we didn't have it there, our heart rest would be about 90 beats per minute. And with it on at rest of probably beats around 70 depends, you know, there's variation. So that evolved for this branch of the vagus nerve evolved so that humans could work together, they could communicate without being in this fight or flight state. So when it's working, well, it keeps us I'll say, in that regulated state, so I might feel excitement, or I might feel waves of nervousness. But overall, I'm feel flexible, adaptable, my thoughts would be coherent, and my energy would be relatively stable. But let's say we're doing this podcast. And I'm really excited. And I would feel this mobilizing energy in my system, which might be heat, like warm through here might be that I'm up a little bit in my energy. So that means that that brake has just come off a tiny little bit to let in some of what we call the sympathetic nervous system energy. And that brings us up. And this is good, because we want to focus, we want to, it's things we feel passionate about. So that energy brings us vitality, and makes us robust. And then after say this was over my vagal brake would come back in and slow me back down. And I would feel that change or shift in my energy. If I face something really stressful, like say, the internet cut out while we were doing this, and I couldn't get back on the break with my fingertips would come off. And then I would move towards a fight or flight state. So I might feel my heart race, anxiety, my thoughts would be going quick, you've got to get back in there. And, you know, a few other effects. So if my vagus nerve is working well, what that means is, I will come back into that regulated state quicker. For some people whose vagus nerve isn't working so great when they feel that passion or excitement, or that, where they take the break off a little bit. It's almost like it's not there properly. And so they go into fight or flight when they're just feeling say, excited, nervous, that kind of thing. And that's really what we would say, biologically is anxiety, you know, so there's, it's that too sensitive to move into that system and the vagal breaks, not keeping it in check. So that's one of its main roles. The other way that we might see is that we have a branch that if we're under threat, and we can't deal with it with fight or flight, we use another part of the vagus nerve, which can bring us down into like a shutdown state. So some people freeze when there's like, really highly stressful events. And some people might say in conflict, you know, you just have frozen and can't speak or do anything. And that's another part of our nervous system, which is there to protect us like It's like animals playing dead, in a way it's psychologically protective. But we used to say the, like, the old way of looking at the autonomic nervous system was just fight or flight, or rest and digest, but we actually know there's still this sense of shutdown. And it's really important because it shows us how not only how we respond in some situations, that isn't our fault. But also, it can be the precursor for burnout, so and depression, you know, that sense of always flat chronic fatigue, feeling lethargy, To some people whose vagus nerve isn't working so well, they can oscillate between anxiety, down to depression shutdown up to anxiety. And it's, they sort of miss that state where they're regulated, which is unfortunate, but we call that having nervous system dysregulation.

Katie: 15:19

It's so fascinating. And so essentially, the vagus nerve, what I just took from that was that it's kind of like the pathway between the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system that, that goes back and forth to regulate the two and keep you balanced in between the two, is that a fair way of saying,

Jessica: 15:40

absolutely. So it's really about having enough like, we don't want to always be in this calm, regulated state, because sometimes you're angry, and we need to deal with things. Sometimes we get disappointed, or things don't work out. And we've get flat. And we need to grieve like, that's having that flexibility in our nervous systems really important. But exactly what you say, Katie, it's keeping all those systems in balance, rather than, you know, always being in sympathetic or always being in shutdown.

Katie: 16:10

And dysregulated nervous system, I genuinely think I experienced this towards the end of last year, it's it, from my perspective, what it looks like, and tell me if this is true, you're like, you're just highly reactive, you're kind of always on edge, and kind of always stressed. And like, like, something can just tip you off, where you don't, you don't have that, like, calm that ability to, to bring it down. And to go into that rest and digest phase. Like I definitely went through a short period like that, just from so much stress from a really stressful year. And I'm out of it now regulated again. But you know, it's just it's I, you know, like, when people say their nerves are shot. That's like, I always my parents were like, my mom would throw that saying around. I feel like that's what that means, right?

Jessica: 17:01

Absolutely. And it makes sense physiologically, because if we said, like, we have like a setpoint of our nervous system that we start out, that's a little bit like a thermostat in a house, you know, the say, it gets hot, then the aircon comes back on until it brings it back down. But it's sort of oscillating around that point. Well, what happens is say we go through something really stressful, the sympathetic energy will be released. And then we'll have a loss of the vagus nerve or vagal tone, like I said, where it comes off. But what would happen is, if we learned to, if we were recovering from that, we'd go back to that setpoint. So the vagus nerve would start working properly again, that sympathetic energy would be discharged, we'd be fine. So stress isn't bad for us if we recover. But when it's chronic, let's say what you were saying, say with your year, last year, Katie, and there was a wave of stress. And then the next thing came, then the next thing, can you set setpoint moves. So you don't have the vagal tone, but you're closer to that edge of being almost add anxiety already before you begin. So then it's just the littlest thing tips you over into that state. So we can move that setpoint. But what's interesting is that the chronicity, or the the the relentlessness of stress is what is worse. So you know, if we can recover from it, it's fine. But it's when we get hit again and again. Or we're in a situation where we feel helpless and powerless to do anything with what's happening. So say, for instance, for so many people with COVID-19, it's a classic example. You know, if you had a business and you were worried, but couldn't really do anything. So I think for so many people, it's what they're seeing now is that, you know, ongoing anxiety, and the health issues coming off that pandemic time. But, you know, for so many people, their life just is relentlessly challenging.

Amy: 19:07

Some people are probably more in tune with their body than others. So a few questions. So how would one know if they're, I don't I don't even know what the right terminology would be. But for lack of a better word, and how would someone know if their vagus nerve is off? And also, how do you keep it balanced? Or is it like through? What are the methods in which to keep it balanced?

Jessica: 19:31

Sure. So we we say vagal tone is how we would assess whether it's working properly or not. So it's a bit like a muscle. It's working well, it's got good vagal tone. Normally what you'll see is a cluster of symptoms or things that happen concurrently because of its role. As I said, We'd like our emotional health but also our physical health. So it can be prolonged anxiety, that inability to switch off, can't relax, maybe insomnia thrown in with that. Or on the other hand, people can have like that prolonged feeling of depression, exhaustion, flatness, people that tend to be more on the flat side will probably internalize this as they're lazy and just can't, you know, get this stuff together. But that procrastination is actually a physiological sign of being in that state would see the other gut conditions. So a lot of people can experience either that chronic constipation, they might experience like sensitivities that they've never had before pain, bloating, just can't tolerate foods that they used to be able to, that would be one of the main ones and then also pain. So it can be just tension up through the neck and shoulders, it could be lower back pain. And the immune system as well can be another hint. So skin conditions, allergies, respiratory things, with some people, you they say, just I'm thinking of people that I've worked with their throat, like their voice feels a bit funny, because the vagus nerve has a branch that comes up through the throat and innovates the muscles of communication and speech. So they would be the main things to look for that would be a clue, the gold standard measurement is using like ECG leads, where you look at the beats of the heart. Because what I said before that break coming on to the heart, the heart doesn't actually be like a metronome, it has rhythm. So when you breathe in, it beats a little bit faster. And when you breathe out, it beats a little bit slower. And that's because of the vagal brake, I was saying before, when you breathe in, there's just a real slight release. And when you breathe out the vagal brake starts working properly again. So you can actually see that on an ECG and see the difference. And it tells you how the how the vagus nerve is working. But in order to answer the second part of your question, it really depends on knowing where or how your nervous system is sitting. So if we were talking about before, that where some people can be at the edge where they're closer to anxiety, we'd have looking at certain ways to work with that. For some people, if it's, you know, that they're more towards the flat side of things, you'd be looking at different ways to work with that physical or how that's changed someone's physiology. It's, it's tricky, because it's like people saying to me, oh, what's the best practice I can use? There isn't one like, and it's not something? You know, we see a lot of,

Amy: 22:51

it's a big question. I was just curious, is it like, are you treating the vagus nerve? Are you treating the symptoms that in turn help the vagus nerve? Like is it and this is totally different, but we had Dr. Deborah block on our show, who is a chiropractor, and she was talking, we were talking about the Atlas. And she was saying, if your Atlas is out, she can adjust it and therefore XYZ, so like, Is it physical therapy related to this? Or is it more just treating the symptoms, which then help us? I'm trying to understand the

Jessica: 23:21

question, and I'm really glad you asked it, because I think this is important for people understanding for their own symptoms, the symptoms that you see are more at the more that end product, if that makes sense. So when I was working as a physiotherapist, what I found frustrating was that people were coming in with pain. And it was when they had something really stressful without really, you know, emotional experiences going on. And I would go to treat the pain, but it's not really getting to the root cause of the pain, but the pain is only showing up because you're dysregulated. So the key is coming back into that regulated state. Now you can look at this of what Dr. Daniel Siegel, who's a neuroscientist has called coined it the window of tolerance. And so we all have this but you can say it's a dynamic system, like it changes by what's happening in our lives. So if we say inside the window, you are in that regulated state where the vagus nerve is working. But then above the window is that sympathetic fight or flight state? And below the window is that flat, what we might call hypo arousal so to flap, well, the width of our window can be changed. And also, you know, like, if we said typically I'm in the middle, and let's say I go to work, I've got emails, I'm coming up to the edge, traffic's a pain. Then my boss says, I need to see you in my office and I'm up into feeling My heart beat fast and anxiety. And then let's say I find out, somebody else gets the promotion that I wanted, then I might move up into anger and become quite reactive. So the width of our window, if my Windows narrow, then emails are going to be experienced up in this state things before where I was still in that regulated state. So if we can widen the window of our window of tolerance, that's really helpful. And I think what we need to start with for to be able to do this is to get to know our nervous system, and then see what moves us into those different states, then in the heat of the moment, having tools that we can use. So for some people, that might be what we call core regulation. So this is where, if you're around somebody else whose nervous system is inside their window, they're in a regulated state, you will begin to mirror their nervous system, and you will come down into a calmer state. So car regulation is one of the most powerful things, we hear so much about how codependency is bad, and we shouldn't rely on other people. But we're actually wired for connection, we're wired to depend on other people like biologically, it's been our entire makeup. And we can look at what we call the social engagement system. That explains it, I touched on it a little bit before with the branch that goes from the heart up to the face. So if someone's inside their window, you'll hear their voice has a lot of porosity. So that means changes in rhythm and pitch. If if you listen to how parents do this intuitively, with their baby, they started talking new things or new voice like this, they're intuitively using their voice to co regulate the baby, or people do it with their puppies, like you're probably doing now with your new one. But that change is showing that the vagus nerve is active, and it's innovating these muscles of communication and speech, you'll also see it on someone's face. So they'll smile with the upper part of the face as well. So it's like you'll see the expression right through. And then they'll also when when someone's in that state of inside that window, they can really tune in to the sound of the human voice. So if you're at a party, or whatever, and you're having a conversation with someone, you'll be able to listen in on just the person that you're talking with just their voice. So if I move above the window of tolerance, I will probably lose that vocal prosody. And my voice might sound something like this will find good anxiety. And I'll have a breath every few words. But that's the loss of the vagus nerve. Or for someone who's angry, the voice might sound more like this, so that it becomes monotone. And then when they smile, it will probably just be with the lower face, or it will, there'll be no expression at all. And above the window. They weren't people actually can't hear the sound of the human voice properly. So it goes from hearing this mid range frequency down to this really low range frequency, which is meant to be like predator sounds. So like a tiger walking through the jungle. And here it's like treading on a state and that breaking. That's the kind of what we tune into when we feel stressed. So if we can tap into somebody else who's in a regulated state, and we hear their voice that's got prosity, we see the kindness in their eyes, we see their gestures are calm, they're slow to our resonant circuits, our internal state will shift to mirror them. So that would be I would say, the most important thing that you can do for your autonomic nervous system and your vagus nerve.

Katie: 29:21

I just want to say I was getting chills the whole time, he said that I could relate so much to everything of what you're saying. But also, is it kind of like, you know, people say you pick up on another person's energy. I feel like that's exactly what what you're speaking to. That's exactly what that is. Right?

Jessica: 29:38

Totally. We have a thing as well called posture, resonance circuits. So this works. You see animals do this. If they're in the wild and one of them like this. They head up and looks around like what was that? They'll all get like, and so it's a little bit like as if we were in a movie theater say and People started looking around looking really scared. Our circuits in our brain would affect our nervous system. And we would start to feel oh, something's not right, I need to take action. But we can read cues that we might not even be aware of. So I can see, you know, it's like gestures with the head. It can be somebody, a movement with their eyes, and we're like, oh, that doesn't quite match, and our autonomic nervous system will pick up on that. And a lot of it's happening outside of our conscious awareness.

Katie: 30:34

Stay tuned for part two of this episode, where Amy asks Jessica, if vagal tone was maybe a factor in her vestibular migraines, plus Jessica explains to us what we can do to improve our vagal tone and so much more. We hope you enjoyed part one of our time with Jessica McGuire in this super fascinating topic.

Amy: 30:54

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 53 - Nutrition Tips And Healthy Tricks For Summer With Holistic Nutritionist Jen Silverman (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 53 Nutrition Tips And Healthy Tricks For Summer With Holistic Nutritionist Jen Silverman.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And we're here today to do a quickie episode with Jen Silverman, who was on our show back in episode 16. And for those of you who did not listen to that episode, you should it's called no label as the best label. But Jen Silverman is a holistic nutritionist. She's an expert in nutrition and intuitive eating and we thought it would be fun to do a quickie episode with her just to talk about some stuff for this summer as we're getting ready. The warm weather's coming out. It's spring, summer soon. What do we need to know? What are the tips? What are the snacks? What are all the things from the fabulous Jen? So welcome back to the show. We're so glad you're back with us. We missed you.

Jen: 1:07

Thank you. I'm happy to be back.

Amy: 1:09

So starting off with our nirvana of the week. I'm going to flip it to Katy to tell us. What was your Nirvana this week, Katie?

Katie: 1:15

Well, thanks, Amy. Hi, Jen. So excited to have you. Let's see my nirvana of the weekend. And yesterday, I had the whole day in the city, like a big girl without the kids and without the, you know, the like running around school pickups, and all of that stuff. So it was kind of fun. It was it was the first time since we've lived in Connecticut that I've done that where I've gone in for the entire day, just myself doing my thing. And then I had dinner with a great friend that I hadn't seen in years. So that was it. It's like, I don't know, it's just fun to kind of step outside of your normal life and do something different like that. That was my old life. You know what I mean? That's yeah, I was. Just to have times, yeah, well, yeah. 100% Like, I wasn't necessarily working. I had some pampering and some shopping. And it was great. It was fun. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:09

I have a little Nirvana from this morning. So our puppy Skye who accounts they talked about on the show, she's eight months now. And she's still crazy, but she's getting a little bit more mellow. And she jumped in bed this morning with me. And we were spooning and it was so yummy. So and she's so big now. So like, our whole body was like against me. And we were just like, cuddling. You know, granted, it was for like a minute until she like wanted to do something else. But it was so sweet. Because she never really does that. So I loved it. That's so huge. And

Jen: 2:38

my birthday was last week. And so I would say I just feel like, and I know, it's sad that it only happens on your birthday or not sad, but I just felt really loved in general. lately. I had, you know, dinner with my college friends and I got to be with my parents and my mom made me dinner. I always laugh because I feel like when I was little I always wanted to go out to dinner. And now that I'm older and I can pay for my own dinner, I'm like, can you just cook me dinner with someone to cook me dinner? So I felt like I had a really special week. Just with a lot of celebrations and seeing people I don't get to see as much and I'm glad that even that was the reason but that brought us together.

Amy: 3:18

That's so nice. Yeah, happy belated.

Jen: 3:21

22. Right. Can you believe it? Exactly. Three actually, it really it just outlines.

Amy: 3:29

Solid state of mind. It's all state of mind. Okay, so let's get into it. So summer's coming up. What do we need to know, like, give us some quick things that you're thinking about for kind of while you're already in shape, but like, you know, getting in shape and getting prepped for the summer.

Jen: 3:42

So my favorite part about the summer is that you can eat fresh foods. And I should not imply that you don't eat fresh foods year round. But you've probably heard you know, the term eating seasonally. And generally, this when someone is telling you to eat seasonally, they mean like there are certain fruits and vegetables that are in season, winter, spring, summer fall, right. So if you're getting strawberries in the summer, they are that much more delicious than if you're getting them in the winter because they're you're getting them from somewhere else or writing to when they're picked, you know, in California, you're kind of waiting and that nutrient density and even the taste is kind of all being depleted as it finally gets to you in Maryland or here on the East Coast. So that is all very true and I love eating seasonally. But my what I mean by eating seasonally and I think it's what's overlooked a lot is that in the wintertime especially you're eating more warming foods, right like you're eating like soups and stews and broth and things like that, and naturally we crave those and you actually should like really lean into that. But in the summer everything's fresh and delicious and even salads and juices and fresh fruit and like it actually tastes really good versus like you're going like okay, this is fine. So I would say like from a food standpoint, number one like leaning into summer. It's amazing if everything's now seasonal and delicious, and we can eat salad without being depressed wishing we were eating something warmer, in my personal opinion at least that's so

Katie: 5:09

true. I definitely 100% do that. In the warmer months. I want the cold crispy crunchy salad, the fresh veggies and then when it gets cold, I crave the warmer stuff. And I like occasional material. I feel like I should really be eating a salad because so much better for me. Why am I not eating the salad? Is it I don't, I don't want it because I'm freezing my body's cold it needs to be warmed up and be it's just not as like crispy and crunchy and fresh as it shouldn't be. So that's a really great, great tip. I love that one.

Jen: 5:37

Thank you. I feel like I never think of that. Or not that we don't think about it from that side. Which is Yeah. A Grom for a workout standpoint, I mean, get outside like there is nothing better than like fresh air and like that not be not even just like not staring at a screen not in not. And that's not to say that there aren't wonderful at home workouts or if you are comfortable going into a gym or into a fitness class if those aren't beneficial. But there's just something about being outside. I think the term that I heard somebody uses called Nature bathing, and it's literally forest bathing.

Amy: 6:12

What is it? Nature bathing or forest bathing, I've heard

Jen: 6:15

are both there. I think they're both really like actual things. But yeah, but nature bathing in general, just having that even if it's like walking outside versus on a treadmill, like, yeah, your calorie burn isn't going to be different. But let's be honest, like, I really hope that you and everyone listening to this is not working out for the calorie burn. Like I hope that they're working out for all of the other benefits of exercise. So I mean that alone, just whether it's a walk of bike ride your gardening, I mean, I plan to garden, I'm doing it on, it's my Mother's Day gift every year on missions every year, it's the second year in a row because I used to live in a city and I didn't have a garden. But we're going on here to where we're planting my garden. i Yeah, that is also something that I love about like coming into summer and spring and stuff like that.

Amy: 7:00

That's funny that you plant a garden, I actually my mom and I, on Mother's Day usually do that too. We go to the store and we get all the flowers and we plant all the annuals for the week, the spring vegetables and like herbs. And you know, I haven't gotten into that territory. I would like to actually Katie and I've talked about having someone on the show to like tell people how to do it because we don't know how to do it or to do it where they actually grow and like animals don't eat them. Like the whole thing seems very intimidating shape, but in theory, I would love to

Jen: 7:30

do it. My mom um, the advice I will give you now in year two, but I was when I was younger my Mom did whatever year so I do know a little bit you do things eat like tomatoes, cucumbers, squash, they grow like weeds, like in a wonderful way. Like it's simple, you won't feel like you're failing. You literally water them once a day, no big deal. Put them in a sunny spot, not too sunny. The tomatoes need that like a cage because they grow up. The rest of them don't and they're fine as is I had because we moved into a new home I had like the landscaper when we were doing our landscaping like put in boxes for me. So it was proper, but you don't need that. That's just me being fancy. Um, herbs and spices separate container because they not like cross contaminate, but it's hard to contain them like men will I'm still growing mint from last May. And I'm like it's crazy. I wish that I ever planted that I'm really upset about and not that I don't love mint but it's like overtaking my yard. It's not that hard. I think a lot of people definitely. It seems like a daunting task, but it's not that challenging.

Amy: 8:36

So cucumber or just like put it in the ground and like tomato like go

Jen: 8:40

to home. I really, and they have organic and regular like you can choose which one and you buy the pot itself and you buy like the plant or soil and then even you could they'll tell you like I walked in there and I'm like this is my first time doing garden. My mom's like we know what to get, don't worry. And there's different planter soils, there's the organic one, there's regular one, you know, you it's one of those things that I would recommend going up like a higher price point because if it's a lower price point, not only is this soil now it's a bit thicker and chunkier and you want it to be more smooth, but it's also that there'll be other things mixed into it. This is gonna be a gross comparison, but it's almost like meat. Like if you buy good meat, like you know you're eating meat versus if you're buying right like something like crab carrot, better example. It's like real crab versus breading. I don't.

Amy: 9:28

Okay, you've inspired me I need to try it. Well, the animals get into it.

Jen: 9:33

No, but I've spent in my yard around my Yeah, I

Amy: 9:36

do too, but okay. All right. The other

Katie: 9:39

thing also I have read a lot of studies about like actually having your hands in the dirt and how gardening is really good good for you. It's grounding, it's good for the soul and there's like good bacteria in there that it's okay if it makes its way into your system and all of this stuff. So yeah, it's it's what's up

Jen: 9:59

probiotics? specifically, specifically about it. Yeah,

Katie: 10:01

yes thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I love that. That's also

Jen: 10:05

a holistic functional practice going outside barefoot. So my daughter has to refuses to wear shoes, and is constantly people constantly make comments. And I'm like, listen, she's grounding. This is a practice, but it is like it's part of a meditation process for a lot of people.

Amy: 10:22

I've heard that that you should go outside with no shoes on and like grounding. I keep hearing about that. And it's funny because I do like to be outside with my shoes off. And I didn't know it was like a thing. And Jackson, my older son also walks around all the time with new shoes on outside and say, I'm gonna I'm like, that's good. He's getting the Earth. He's feeling Yeah,

Jen: 10:41

you can join the compound because we're total hippies. And we're gonna go, yeah.

Amy: 10:48

I love it. I also was just listening. I put it on Instagram this week. But I don't know if any, if you listen to the podcast, the Huberman lab

Jen: 10:58

I do. Andrew Yang and Dr. Mann. Yeah, he's best with him. Obsessed. He's

Amy: 11:03

unbelievable. But he was on the skinny confidential this week. And I listened to both of those. And he was talking about so many different amazing practices. There's a part one and part two, and I'm just in the middle of part two, it's so good. But he was saying also a good thing to do in the morning is to go outside, no sunglasses, nothing and just like, be outside and let the light hit your eyes for like 10 or 15 minutes. And it's sort of like that grounding thing. It's like wakes up your body and it like sets your circadian rhythm and all this stuff is so interesting. But anyway, so yeah, I love that. Okay, give us some because I'm a snacker, good snacks, easy snacks, healthy snacks that we can, you know, think about packing in our bags or grabbing on the go. So you don't

Jen: 11:43

want me to just say fruits and vegetables.

Amy: 11:49

And mean, you can grab a banana or an apple, but like, anything new any like, I mean, because we grabbed them or like fruits, veggies nuts, but like,

Jen: 12:01

okay, means I'm really into beans. So there's, it's a blue package, I want to say it's called the O Bean on Amazon. And it's at a mommy. It's just dried roasted at a mommy. But it's like 11 grams of protein, I want to say at 90 calories. There's some fiber in it. And it's a blue package. And I used to give it to my kids for their lunches. And now I'm like I'm bringing these to sporting events because you guys make me sit here for six hours. They're absolutely delicious. And Amazon has I mean, like the single servings. I'm also really into Brahmi right now, which neither of these are like new for the record there. Joe, I know that brand, the BR AMI and it's lupini beans also but these are not dry roasted. So the edamame one, they're crunchy like that texture. I'll throw them on a salad if I'm not eating them plain because they're delicious. Whereas the Brahmi you actually could also throw in a salad but they're I mean, they're they're like there's a big

Amy: 12:52

beans, right like the big white beans or fava beans.

Jen: 12:57

They're lupini beans, I think lupini beans, but fava beans is also a good one. But the Brahmi has single serving ones also. And they have different flavors. So I'm really into they don't require refrigeration. And you can eat the content like it's you know, it's probably this big the packet itself.

Amy: 13:15

That's good. That's good.

Jen: 13:17

Um, she I mean, I'm still in the snack islands and snapin has a salt and vinegar ring

Amy: 13:21

I love by now I saw that on your feed and I need to get those because I love snack length. And I haven't had them in

Katie: 13:26

a while. It's absolutely I mean, is that the what is that? Yuka Okay, yeah,

Amy: 13:32

but they're really light and crunchy and so yummy.

Jen: 13:36

One of my clients compared it to a vegan pork rind. I've never had a pork rind because I grew it is like that. But it looks a bit like that. But they're very fluffy. And what are those? Did you see those water? Have you seen the water lily puppy things?

Amy: 13:52

Right if you tried every snack known to man Yeah,

Jen: 13:55

yeah, I peed. I have clients that are into them. I personally, I'm not sure if I've ever tried them. I should though. I mean, they're

Amy: 14:02

good. They're a little like sweeter. I like the I like the snack ones better, but they're good. They're good. It's good to have a variety of things and those beans I've had before but I had like a bigger bag and I ate too many of them. I didn't feel well, so I was like, I'm gonna get the snack bags. I'm not like overdosing on them. Yeah. Jen, what's

Katie: 14:20

your position on like these healthy popcorn brands? Like the 100 Calorie pack skinny pop popcorn? I mean, are you pro corn anti corn? Like what's your thing? Just curious.

Jen: 14:32

Okay with corn. I feel like the issue with corn in this country is just more so like that. It's what what it it's bad to cows and almost kind of going back to the beginning of our conversation. It's not only corn, there's there's like candy in it and like all of this crap. And then when we are if we are I'm a meat eater like I'm not an exclusive carnivore but I eat meat. And then if I am eating that, you know, I believe we are not the You are what you eat, but you eat what you ate ate. Does that make sense? Like if my cow was eating grass, and then I'm eating the meat from the cow.

Katie: 15:10

Oh yeah. You're eating? What? Yes. Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. It's like the chain.

Jen: 15:16

Yes. Chain. Yeah. So the to me the gross pneus of corn is that it is in cow feed, but there's so much other crap mixed into it. But like I eat corn on the cob. I eat what are those? This is actually good snack those like big, like corn things from

Amy: 15:36

Whoa. Oh, those

Katie: 15:38

Oh, the corn kernel. Like the crunchy? Yeah.

Jen: 15:41

Those are delicious. Yeah, like very I love I love adding things like for texture, like into salads and stuff like that. Like that is a great added great pop of. So to go back to your question. I'm not anti corn had the lesser evil popcorn before that was delicious.

Amy: 15:58

That's the one you had at my house. Katie recently? Yeah. Like, yeah,

Jen: 16:01

yeah, I think I don't think smart pop puts anything in there stuff. I mean, I have like a bit of a negative association with anything that's like, like 100 Calorie packs, just because I don't know, there's like a psychological piece to it. But I also think it's really beneficial. Because quite honestly, we eat what's put in front of us, like, at every age. I mean, I see even with my children, I can give them a bag that's this big or a bag that this big. And they think they need to eat most, if not all of it. So there's something really beneficial about the single serving despite the fact that it's not really good for our environment.

Katie: 16:33

Yeah, that's so true. And to your point, the chain of like, you're eating what what you ate, had for breakfast. It's very true, because I haven't, I have an egg intolerance. And I was told find chickens that are not fed soy, because I'm highly intolerant to soy, because a lot of them are given soy feed. And so it's like, it's not the egg that's bothering me. It's the soy that the chicken ate that's in the egg that's bothering me. So yeah, this is

Jen: 17:01

not along exactly like that. But I was actually having a conversation with a friend who she was saying she can't drink wine anymore. And she's like, why can't I drink wine? And I'm like, I bet you there's so things in your wine, and there's still dates and all wine and you can buy organic wine and it's lower and sulfates but you know that they have filters now can buy single filters. You literally throw them in your glass of mine and you can enjoy your vine without getting a headache and feeling

Katie: 17:27

really. That's interesting.

Amy: 17:30

So yeah, I drink usual wine, which is an organic wine single serve and supposedly there's much lower sugar in it and no sulfites or maybe it's just low sulfites. I don't know, but I want to try those discs. I haven't heard of that. That's cool.

Jen: 17:46

They're like, they kind of like a silver package. And they're just like, a filter, and it filters them out. Because it's almost, if you're buying organic wine is definitely better than non organic wine. But it's similar to and I feel like I'm always using comparisons, but coffee. If you have decaf coffee, there's still little caffeine in it. Not much. Right? Right. So a little bit of it. And that's my assumption is it's pretty comparable from a wine perspective. If you're having organic wine, it's still gonna have some salt base just a lot less for the lower sugar. I mean, that mean that's huge. Like if you I don't know if how if you're a wine person or not, or how even gotten this direction, but I think Summer Wine, it makes sense. Yeah. You get really, you sleep poorly. You're sleeping more basically, it's the sugar because the sugar is waking you up because your blood sugar's spiking, dropping and then that's what's wake you up in the middle of night, there's sugar in the wine. So I would actually imagine from that aspect as well, the organic wine would be really helpful.

Amy: 18:46

So on that topic of cocktails and drinking in the summer, because we tend to be out more and drink more and all that. What's your go to for like low sugar, like as clean as you can get? Cocktails?

Jen: 19:01

I got this. Tequila, soda water and three limes. I can't tell you if you're nervous to go really like just I would to ease into it. I would say a splash of grapefruit juice, but ideally like fresh grapefruit juice, because that also cuts it really well with like the sourness

Amy: 19:22

of grapefruit juice and what kind of tequila Do you like?

Jen: 19:25

If I'm being a snob? I'll go like class at school but that should not be mixed with soda water. I actually did it once and was yelled at. Oh, good like casamigos Um, that episode. Oh, probably.

Amy: 19:38

Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.

Katie: 19:40

It sounds good. I'm a wine drinker. And I do I have read that wine and white wine and champagne are lower in sugar than a lot of other, you know, alcohol options. So I feel like if you can't do the hard stuff that tequila, then I think actually Champagne is the Is champion the least amount of sugar? I think I've heard that the dry the really dry champagnes

Jen: 20:05

really dry when I would say not like a Prosecco, right dry one.

Amy: 20:09

But we love percent.

Katie: 20:13

I'm not gonna say no to champagne though, either.

Jen: 20:16

Every day the celebration. I would say if you want to pace yourself, I would put, I would make it into like a spritzer bow. Like I've done that before. If I'm going, like, for example, I told you, I have a winery visit tomorrow. My plan is to get the wine with soda water to cut it, so that it's more of a spritzer and that I can you know, I can last longer and be cool.

Katie: 20:41

Very smart. Yeah,

Amy: 20:42

that's a good idea.

Katie: 20:43

I love and you know what? It's also really refreshing in the summer by the pool outside a white wine spritzer. Yeah, it's yummy.

Amy: 20:51

fruit in there. Yeah.

Jen: 20:53

Right. Kind of ruined it with them. I'm just getting like they are. They're really, I mean, they like they add so many calories. Like, I think we've talked about this. Maybe I have a client, a man who he lost like 11 pounds in a month. And the only change he made because he gave up alcohol. Like he's like, I just want to see and he No and, and I'm like, that's insane. Like he was still eating everything that he loved. And just crazy. Like how how it creeps up and you don't even realize

Amy: 21:25

Yeah, he's also he's also a man that was gonna say the exact same Yeah, like, if I cut out alcohol for a month, I would lose like half a pound. I mean, let's be honest. But I was actually going to give one fun hack, which I did like I remember I read about this years ago, and I haven't done it in a while. But you just reminded me of the champagne in the spritzer if you take blueberries, raspberries and put them in the freezer. They become like ice cubes. And then you can put them in your spritzer or water or whatever, and they're yummy. So

Jen: 21:54

you're now reminding me that's a great tip. Thank you. You're reminding me of last summer. I made my kids love watermelon. I always buy watermelon and we can eat like I mean a half a watermelon in a day in our house. I took the leftover because it was it was like two or three days and I was worried it was gonna turn froze the watermelon. Then I took it and put it in a blender with like fresh limes. And meanwhile, like it wasn't a sorbet texture was more like an icy texture like a Slurpee texture. I mean, I've never had I had mine. passerby I mean nutritious but yeah, it was like a watermelon Slurpee. It was literally just like lime juice and the watermelon but because it was frozen, it was that beautiful. But I should and had every intention of trying to put alcohol in that because I think that would also be delicious.

Amy: 22:42

Ooh, that sounds so good. And how did you freeze the watermelon? Like in just like little balls?

Jen: 22:46

Yeah, like I don't even have a pretty ball thing. It was like I cube the watermelons for my kids anyway, so I had like an a glass Tupperware thing and then I put it in my freezer.

Amy: 22:55

Yeah. Oh, I love that. That sounds so good. Yes. And you could mix them a little vodka tequila sounds

Jen: 23:01

amazing. I have to try it and I will let you know when I do. I will invite you. I love it.

Katie: 23:07

What about I have a question for the next recommendation. Do you have any like detox teas? I mean, you see people that are making these things with the ginger and Tumeric like what's what's your jam on? Do you have something?

Jen: 23:20

I do? So it's funny because again, you're like every word is really triggering for you Jen you're very specific picky. I hate the word detox like our livers job is to detox right like we don't need to go on a detox like we have an entire organ that does that for us that said and this is more of a not I feel puffy, although I think it would benefit because it will it's it will it's anti inflammatory and will lower inflammation in your body which is generally can manifest as just essentially puffiness in your skin. But I actually more take it if I'm not feeling great for an immune boost. So what I do is hot water. Fresh ginger, so fresh grated ginger, a little bit of honey because honey is antimicrobial. Oh half juice from half of a lemon and then Ceylon cinnamon,

Katie: 24:06

Ceylon what's Ceylon cinnamon?

Jen: 24:09

So there's cashes cinnamon, and Salem Ceylon is d Y L O N That's just the one that's I mean, I should say supposedly because the science of nutrition is just so interesting and I feel like there's always new articles like I'm literally always on PubMed and I'm like like finding and you can which is really sad probably find any you could find a study that will prove anything you want at this point if I'm being perfectly honest, I don't know if I'm supposed to say that but Ceylon cinnamon is supposedly the one that is actually anti inflammatory versus the cash is cinnamon, which I think is not as I want to say not as it's not the word not as fresh but not doesn't have the same properties so Ceylon cinnamon is as you can imagine a higher price point it's almost like that manuka honey thing versus like regular honey right?

Amy: 24:54

What do you store Yeah, I was gonna say like, if you just pick up cinnamon How would you know what kind it is?

Jen: 24:59

If you Pick up red ocean and then assume that it's not Ceylon but like Whole Foods like what's the brand if frontier it's like the Black Label the frontier like that they haven't say a lot. It'll say Salem cinnamon.

Amy: 25:11

Okay. All right, so we got some really good tips there. There's probably a million more, but we're gonna go to Katie because she's got some summer products she wants to tell us about. So I'm excited to hear them. Yeah. So

Katie: 25:23

I am super excited to share these because they're like game changers for me. And I just discovered them recently. And I'm obsessed. Well, Amy knows one of them. One is the secara Matt metabolism, super powder. I just started using it recently. And it definitely is all that it's cracked up to be like it. It helps with bloat. It helps with digestion, it helps with puffiness. It also gives me energy and kind of like, helps with mental clarity as well. It's super yummy. And I just think it's great for going into summer because I know Jen doesn't like the word detox, but it kind of feels a little bit like that. And also like it's just it just kind of like speeds up your metabolism, which is what it says it's supposed to do, which helps you know, flatten the tummy and things like that. So I really love it. It's a huge bag, you can get a 30 serving pouch for $90. A little steep, but I use like half of a half of the scoop every time I use that. What do you think about a Gen?

Jen: 26:25

I have a question I want to Yes. Okay. I mean,

Katie: 26:29

I would love to. And just

Amy: 26:30

while she's getting that out, I've used this metabolism that I've used. I use it a while ago. And I used it for a little while and I put it in my coffee and I think it was fine for me. I didn't really notice that much of a difference. And it was funny when Katie was getting it she asked me and I was like yeah, for me. It was okay. Like it wasn't bad. It wasn't I didn't. I didn't notice a major difference. But Katie has noticed the difference was which is great. So I think it just works maybe for some people and not for others. Yeah,

Katie: 26:55

I think so too. The ingredients are raw cacao powder, coconut milk powder, l glutamine, horsetail extract, kelp extract, tonight. Gymnema sylvestre extract, coconut sugar, it has a 1% blend of stevia and low how gow extract

Jen: 27:19

Chinese that's from traditional Chinese medicine. That's an herb that's commonly used in TMC.

Katie: 27:25

Okay. And then the last Oh, and TMC, which is bad. And is that no traditional

Jen: 27:29

Chinese medicine?

Katie: 27:30

Oh, I'm sorry, I got something else.

Jen: 27:36

Very common herbs in traditional Chinese medicine that it's okay.

Katie: 27:40

And then the last one is black pepper fruit extract. So, I thought it clean suckers.

Jen: 27:48

I mean, it's our glutamine that's giving you the metabolic effect. Okay. And the others are probably to make it palatable, but also like ingredients that aren't going to hurt you.

Katie: 28:00

Yeah. And they said that I think it's the horsetail extract that kind of helps with, like, like, helping you with bloat and puffiness, kind of getting rid of like extra water weight and things like that. But yeah, so I love that one. Alright, here's the next one. It is it's a red bag. Yep, exactly. I'm sure you've seen it all over social media. Alright, so get ready to have your mind blown. Whoa, there's this new tool that I have been wanting to get for years, but it was so expensive. Three years ago, I was like, alright, this isn't in my future. It is, I think just more available to the public now. So the price is more palpable. It's called the lumen. The lumen metabolism, hack, or hacker?

Jen: 28:48

You're gonna see a jade roller, I'm not gonna lie.

Amy: 28:51

Oh, yes, come on. Alright,

Katie: 28:54

so this is it. And what it does is it measures your co2 output that tells you if you are burning fats, or carbs, you blow into it. And the reason why I know that this is legit. Years ago, when I first started with my autoimmune stuff, my husband, I didn't know what was going on. We went to this very, like intense clinic in New Jersey with legitimate doctors and all of the tests and everything. They run everything under the sun. And one of the first things they had me do was blow into a device to see what the strength of my metabolism was. I think it was like my, like resting metabolic rate or something like yeah, so that is, yeah, so that is via checking your co2 output, and that's exactly what this does. So I blow into this. It's connected to my phone, and it tells me what I'm burning and then it gives me a plan for the day should I eat some more carbs today? Should I stay away from the carbs and the whole So is to get you to what they call metabolic flexibility. And it's where engine knows. Alright, Jen just perked up, you know,

Jen: 30:10

metabolic flexibility? And I bet you

Amy: 30:12

do. I would like that I definitely don't

Katie: 30:14

have it. Yeah, so that's what I'm working towards. And that's where your body, Jen, help us understand what that what that is,

Jen: 30:22

oh, that literally means what you think it means, which is that your body can metabolize all of the macronutrients, so fat, protein, and carbs. So what happens is with diet plans, like if you went on keto, for example, you're only eating fat, so your body and it's there. So there's, this is actually harder to explain than I thought, there's nine calories and one gram of fat, there's four calories in one gram of protein and carb. So when the concept behind keto not to get too into it is like if you're fat fueled, and you're only eating of a high amounts of fat, and you're limiting, like severely limiting, like under 10%, your carbs and proteins, then your body is living off of ketones, but you need to eat a lot less because there's so many more calories in that like, that's why it works, right? Like if there's only if there's nine calories and one gram of fat, you can eat a lot fewer, like more than half the amount than if you're eating if you are fueled by carbs and proteins. Does that make sense?

Katie: 31:21

Yeah, and also, go ahead. No, no, continue.

Jen: 31:25

I love that about the flexibility means that your body can digest all of those versus like you having to go on some specific diet plan or like your body really only knows how to digest one of those macros, because yeah,

Katie: 31:37

yeah. And also I read as well, that when you like, stop eating carbs, you stop making these enzymes that help you break them down, and all of that. And, Amy, I don't know if you remember we Amy years ago, before we knew better Amy and I were like really into keto for a while. And then when we tried to come off of it. It was crazy. It's like we couldn't eat a carb without feeling like we were going to put on five pounds. And I think it's exactly that. Do you remember that? You said, I feel like this screwed my body up. And I can't even eat a piece of bread anymore. So that'd be the piece of red. And again, like three rounds. Yeah, that's like exactly what the opposite of metabolic flexibility is. So this is a tool that you use to basically collect data and you have to be engaged, you check your you check, you check it multiple times throughout the day. And eventually using the data properly and applying it to daily life, it should get you to metabolic flexibility. So I'm all about like, you know, give me the data. And I'm a biohacker I

Amy: 32:33

love it. That's so cool. Wait, so explain how it works. So you blow in it. And then what? What's the output? What does it say

Katie: 32:40

in an app in my phone, it's Bluetooth. And it tells you it's like a little scale. One is your burning fat five is your burning carbs. And then there's in betweens, and the goal is to you know, like wake up at a one so you know that you're burning fat through the night. i This morning, I woke up at a five because I had pasta and wine last night. So you know that makes sense. But yeah, I'm still learning it. I've had it for a week. And it is complicated. It does take commitment. But yeah,

Amy: 33:15

but it's interesting, very cool. I think it's hard to know, like, I have no idea that you don't really know how your body is working unless you're super in tune. So that can really help to guide because I don't like you're right, like sometimes you eat something you feel a certain way. And like, yeah,

Jen: 33:32

I will interject and tell you that your body will always choose to burn carbs. First of all right? Like, that's why when you're running, if you're running a marathon or something like our bodies are smart, they know that as a quick source of energy. That's why every four to five mile marker, if you're doing a race, they're gonna have gummies and things that hit your bloodstream really quickly. Those are carbs like sugar is a is the literally the most accessible, digestible form of carbohydrate, it's not so good for you, because then your blood sugar spiking and your cravings are all over the place. But your body will definitely choose to digest carbs. So it sounds like this is helping you know what to eat so that your body is like, Hey, listen, we're not only digesting carbs, we got to like, move on to the other stuff. I'm concerned.

Katie: 34:12

Yeah. And also the other thing too, is like I'm attuned to my body, but just because I'm attuned to my body, I might crave carbs, but that doesn't mean my body needs carbs. There's other factors like hormones and things at play that could be making me crave carbs. So to have something tell me whether or not I really need them in that moment. Is is a tool that's a very useful tool. Yeah,

Amy: 34:34

so for this what's a cotton muddiman No, no, but the flexibility metabolism, linear metabolic flexibility. That is what when you can eat things without like gaining or losing weight, like you kind of stay the same and

Jen: 34:53

raising your blood sugar. So like if you were a diabetic, for example, and you were really obsessing over your blood sugar being in a healthy range, that would also be beneficial. So metabolic flexibility just means that no matter what you're eating, you're not, it's not going to affect not only your metabolism, but also your blood sugar and other like biometric factors.

Amy: 35:12

Interesting. So by using a tool like that, you could see how you were that day and then kind of like base your meal plan essentially on that,

Katie: 35:19

then it gives you a meal plan macros and everything. Oh, that's cool.

Amy: 35:24

Based on like, it'll tell you how to eat Yes, off of your

Katie: 35:27

score. It gives you a meal plan, like oh,

Amy: 35:28

that's so cool.

Jen: 35:29

The illuminator the lumen

Katie: 35:32

l you, me and for the listeners will have it in the show notes. So I went is this Jen Silverman approved? Are you

Jen: 35:41

interested in it? I'm totally going to DM them and ask them to send me one for free so that I can post about it. Yeah,

Amy: 35:46

maybe I need to do that again. Yes,

Katie: 35:48

it's it's not I mean, it's not super affordable, but it is up to I believe it was 299. And then you have a four month subscription to the app that does all the things and then pay another 299 to keep in that program. Or you can be like my goal where I'm trying to really use it, learn it. Right figure out ways to like personally hack it into my life. kind of love that. Yeah.

Amy: 36:16

Okay, that's really cool. And I definitely want to research that more. And Jen will circle back with us and give us her yay or nay on it, but it sounds pretty legit. Very cool. Yeah, it is.

Jen: 36:27

We're a numbers nerd.

Katie: 36:28

I'm also like a research geek.

Jen: 36:31

Metrics person then

Katie: 36:33

metrics

Amy: 36:34

are whoop. What's up? Like just listening? Yeah,

Katie: 36:38

I need one of those. No, that's

Amy: 36:39

the sleeping thing. I know. Well, there's

Jen: 36:41

the aura, raise their aura. And somebody gave me a whoop, and I don't want to activate it because I'm not like you in that regard. And that I don't want to wake up and see that my whoop is at 10% recovery and then not like move my body because I'm like, Oh, but I feel okay, but it's telling me that I shouldn't like I would read too much into it. Like I've had rice like Christmas time and I will not activate it and everyone's like learn

Amy: 37:06

and it tells you what is it do it measures your sleep and like and how well you

Jen: 37:10

Yeah, and not it's not as much like how many hours although will tell you that it's more like your recovery because you know, there's the sleep where you actually like get decent sleep and then there's a sleep that you're restless and you're waking up and you're you know, I don't know, I guess show REM sleep but it tells you like how are you burnin output and

Katie: 37:29

oh, I want one. Yeah,

Amy: 37:30

yeah, I was just I keep hearing about this and it's very interesting. But sometimes it's like ignorance is bliss because you don't it's you could get crazy with it. But I Katie, like when I get like blood tests or different things with the doctors I like give it to Katie she's like my metrics nurse. Like she'll be like, oh, yeah, this this. I'm like, oh, okay, like I don't even pay attention.

Katie: 37:50

But like, yeah, I have the teeniest tiniest wellness hack for like helping with bloat and a flat stomach that I think is great for summer. Right? Okay. Yes, peppermint tea with lemon. But prior to that the Trader Joe's No joke, Ginger shot. If I take the if I'm bloated, you know, gasoline, whatever. I take this. And then I drink peppermint tea with lemon. I'm doing it now. And it helps get rid of all of that. So that's just one nice little treat to Joe's lemon. The Trader Joe's organic, no joke. Ginger shot. It's a blend of coconut water, ginger, lemon juice and a little bit of cayenne pepper. And then pepper. I used to Trader Joe's organic peppermint tea with some lemon slices. And it like it really helps

Amy: 38:38

with that's good to know, especially on a day after you've had pasta and wine sounds like exactly.

Unknown: 38:43

Yes.

Jen: 38:46

She has a breathalyzer and

Amy: 38:49

I know I'm like I'm imagining her

Jen: 38:51

pulling that out like in a publicly

Amy: 38:53

No, no, she's totally. Yeah. She's like, literally probably going to be at a restaurant and be like, Hold on. Let me take meglumine Okay, I didn't order salad or pasta.

Katie: 39:03

It's 100% the truth and people think I'm vaping it's ridiculous.

Amy: 39:07

Oh, that's so funny. That would be that would That's very funny. All right. Let's do okay, I'm going to end with a quick this or that summer edition. You ready? Yes. Okay, blueberry or raspberries,

Jen: 39:24

raspberries twice as much fiber by the way as blueberries.

Amy: 39:27

That's nice to know that okay. Next one. Beach or mountains.

Jen: 39:34

Each. My heart belongs to the beach.

Amy: 39:38

Like failure. I feel you Okay, hot coffee or iced coffee.

Jen: 39:43

Iced year round which is not in line with what I said about wow, I know but I would rather drink iced coffee around and then have hot water to warm myself up in the winter after

Amy: 39:54

okay. Okay and last one sweats or judged up

Jen: 40:00

Oh, sweat. I'm a natural beauty. Yes, you are. And I'm not. I don't look, you're already Asian. Like I don't. It looks weird. I got my makeup done once for a wedding. And my David looked at me and he was like you look like, like Trump like he's like

Katie: 40:19

well, you are very naturally gorgeous. Thank you.

Amy: 40:25

Awesome. Well thank you for your this or that. This is so much summary. Thank you for being on the show. This is so good. I love all these tips and tricks. We'll have to digest and put it all in the show notes because there's so many good things to get everybody ready for the spring and the summer and the roses and the tequilas and the snack lens and whatever else we talked about, and don't forget your Luna thing that one of us has gotten me. Oh, we all need to make this frozen watermelon situation and do some videos and like share them with each other.

Katie: 40:53

Good idea.

Amy: 40:54

Put them on Instagram. Okay, I love it. Thank you so much for joining us and so good to see you too. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 52 - Common Chiropractic Myths, Helpful Tips To Stay In Alignment With Dr. Debra Block - Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 52 Common Chiropractic Myths, Helpful Tips To Stay In Alignment With Dr. Debra Block Part 2.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. In this week's Part Two episode with Dr. Debra Block, we really get into the details. So last week, we talked about why chiropractic care is good for you and all the benefits. But this week, we really go deep into things you can do on a daily basis that can help you what to expect when you go to the chiropractor, what to look for, and more. So enjoy this episode. It's full of tips and tricks that we think will be really helpful.

Katie: 0:59

Amy, I'm curious why you were so scared of the idea of being adjusted. I mean, I love going in and getting my neck adjusted. And I know like something like, didn't you tell me that like that the whole thing kind of freaks you out that whole the whole neck adjustment?

Debbie: 1:13

I just want to say that Amy has asked me to rob her and touch her and examine her.

Amy: 1:17

I love a good massage and hands on my neck. I mean, always yes, yeah. Our whole moving your bones into a different place. Like only because and I'm sure people that are listening feel the same way. Like you've heard the horror stories of like, oh my god, I went to a chiropractor, I got my neck adjusted and like, I can't move or like you hear these. And it's miss. And that's one of the things I wanted to ask you, Debbie, like those common myths that people hear about. And I think that's why it was always because it's not just like, you know, you're you're adjusting the body. And if you don't go to someone good, something could happen. I mean, you're super qualified. And of course, I trust you with everything. So like, I felt so good. And it was funny, Katie, because Debbie was like, Oh, I can refer you to someone closer. You don't have to like, drive, you know, half an hour to see me. I'm like, No, I'm not going anybody. Like, you know, it's it's it's intimate to your point, and you want to trust the person you're with. And so I think that's why I tend to get over the fear. And now, I would happily go back to do it. But I think there's probably a lot of people that feel the way that I do. So Deb, what are you seeing as like myths that you can dispel for people, there's

Debbie: 2:21

lots of people who feel that way. And I do a tremendous amount of work. You know, my psychology degree really helps me with every single person I can sense and pick up on that even when someone's not telling me. So I really learn how I've learned how to and it's one of the I think it's one of the things I think every doctor should have is an understanding of where their patients coming from and being able being able to sense their own comfort or discomfort. But ya know, I do I do a lot of communication and explanation. And if I have to go really slow with people I do, we have non aggressive options that if I have to start out, you know, with an instrument instead of my hand so that they're not feeling the vertebra moving, then I will do that. But I do a lot of communication and a lot of explanation to get patients to feel more comfortable and you know, ease into it slowly. There are a lot of myths. Some of them are kind of laughable. My favorite one is Hey, Doc, you know, I've watched Jackie Chan movies, and he always breaks people's necks. And are you going to do that to be? Him? I want to be like, how dumb are you? Like, I don't say that. But you know, I first thing I say is okay, that's a movie, you know, like, that's fake. And I never took that class in school. Like, you know, I never learned how to break next, I only learned how to fix them. Now, I mean, are there any, you know, concerns and real reasons to be concerned? It's few and far between. And I will tell you that malpractice insurance wise, this is always interesting to people. When you look at health care providers, we have the lowest malpractice insurance cost of any health care provider because it's relative to the amount of injuries that are caused by the people in your profession. Wow. So the number of malpractice suits for somebody having been injured by a chiropractor are very, very low. So chiropractors malpractice insurance, like in comparison to a gynecologist and OBGYN who's I don't even know what the numbers are. But, you know, really exorbitant chiropractors are really, really very low rates because we really don't have many, many injuries. There are myths, the biggest one probably is besides this, you know, one that I just shared before is stroke. That's you know, people are like are we gonna have a stroke? And where that comes from is that there are patients with stroke symptoms that present like lots of other chiropractic patients neck pain, headaches, fatigue, range of motion restriction, those are typical for stroke for stroke patient, and they walk in. And they are most likely going to have a stroke sometime within the next few weeks. And if I were to do a Doppler ultrasound on those patients, which would evaluate the arteries in the neck, I would most likely see a clot what's called the thrombus, sitting in the artery waiting for that moment. And so if we don't properly screen for those patients with those issues, is there a possibility that we could adjust them and they could end up having a stroke a couple of days later, and then thinking it was the chiropractor? Who did it? Yes, that's happened. And chiropractors have had issues, you know, with that before, but it has been proven that it is not the chiropractor that caused the stroke, the stroke was going to happen. But the patient came in with symptoms similar to neck pain, headache, you know, patients, and the chiropractor that treated them didn't catch it because a Doppler ultrasound is not something you're going to order. Unless there's, you know, a very clear reason to do so.

Katie: 6:11

Yeah. So let's talk let's talk about that. Let's talk about when a patient comes in as a new patient, the screening that they go through the diagnostic processes that you do, to decide, you know, what they need, etc.

Debbie: 6:24

Yeah. So, obviously, patients fill out a lot of paperwork before they come in, they give me their whole health history, as well as their genetic family history. And have they had chiropractic care before? Have they had traumas have they had car accidents, you know, athletic injuries. So we get a little bit of a picture just from what they've filled out on paper. And then we sit down and have a detailed consultation where I asked all of those questions and we talk about them in depth. You know, what, what your family history is, is important. If you're a smoker, if you're a drinker, if your job requires you to be on your feet, or physical or sitting at a desk all day long, what your stress levels are, what your sleep and hydration and nutrition and exercise look like, what your pain is now, how you're describing it, you know, some of those descriptors can be really red flags for us, you know, worst headache I've ever had in my life is a big one that's refer out to hospital, they're most likely about to have a stroke or about to have potentially an aneurysm. I've, I've caught some scary things in my time. I actually just had a patient who came in post colonoscopy with a whole bunch of abdominal pain. And she was 41. Works out seven days a week in amazing shape and was coming to me for maintenance care to keep her spine in good alignment. She went for her, went for a colonoscopy routine and ended up having all of this abdominal discomfort two weeks later, and both of both her gastro her gastro and her regular doctor told her Don't worry about it, you know, give it some time. I was alarmed. There was something off about it. I said you need to go right away and have a have an ultrasound down and let's see what's going on. Turned out she had a ovarian tumor the size of a grapefruit Wow. emergency surgery within the week. Wow, I just got a while I have that kind of case walk in my office. I have referred out probably four or five strokes and my time. Usually they walk in and they're usually they're pretty obvious. I'm usually it's an older person. It's somebody who is slowed. I mean, I literally had a woman once years ago come in in a wheelchair. And she wasn't feeling well. Her husband pushing her in a wheelchair. She was in her 60s. And one of her feet. You know how in a wheelchair, you've got those foot pedals where you put your feet on, the foot pedals were up. And she was able to hold her left foot like you know, holding it still, but her right foot was literally dragging behind the chair. And I'm like 911 like something's not right. So yeah, I mean, we do have things like that walk in. So yeah, being a good diagnostician and not just looking at the spine. But looking at everything, you know, to the to the point of you guys talking throughout your podcast about kind of an integrative health care approach, which I think is ultimately part of your message. It's really hard to look at someone nowadays especially and not take into account their gastrointestinal health, their cardiovascular health, their gynecological health, their endocrine, health, and all of those things, play a part in what I'm doing. If I want to be a good doctor, talk to people about all of these things. And then once I get a really good understanding of what they're experiencing and what they're feeling and where they've been. Then I have them go through a range of motion. I'll look and see how they're moving and their lower back and their neck and their upper back. I'll do some orthopedic testing to see if there's an eye via sign of problem in the spine, and if they're having neurological symptoms like numbness, tingling, burning, loss of loss of muscle control or weakness, then I'll do some neurological testing. We also will palpate the spine and feel the areas that are bothering them to see what we can pick up with our hands. And, and then if necessary, depending on the age and the issue that's going on, and the history, I'll often refer out for either x rays and or an MRI, depending on what what they're dealing with. If I'm referring out for films, I bring them back and we go over the films once they've come back, we go over the findings, and then I'll treat them if there's no if there's no contraindication based on examination and history, then I'll usually treat on the first visit.

Amy: 10:49

Okay. Yeah, and what I was gonna say, I mean, you're obviously extremely thorough, and you I would hope that most other chiropractors are, but they probably might not be so like, How does someone find a trusted good chiropractor? Like, what would be the best way to do that?

Debbie: 11:05

That's a good question. I wish I could say there wasn't differences from one chiropractor to another. But I think that's probably true

Amy: 11:12

for every house, every kind of

Debbie: 11:15

industry, you know, there are some that are going to be you know, more in tune and aware and concerned and focused, and others who are going to kind of treat you more like a number and get in and get out. I always tell people who are moving to other states to ask, you know, I mean, nowadays with technology, there's so many great places like, you know, besides Facebook and neighborhood listservs there's also what is it that neighborhood app?

Amy: 11:42

Next door next door, thank

Debbie: 11:44

you. So there's lots of good ways. I mean, where I am, there's always people asking for, you know, who's a good chiropractor in town, and I'm always watching to see what people are saying. So there's lots of referrals, I would look start there, look for who else other people are seeing and you know, talk to them, especially if you've got something specific going on. Like I think you mentioned earlier, I treat pregnant women, but many chiropractors do not. So you know, if you're pregnant, you would want to look for other pregnant women who have seen a pregnancy trained chiropractor, because we are, you know, a unique bunch. And it's not something that everybody is well versed in. So looking for referrals, looking at people's websites, you know, what somebody puts into their website, I think really makes a difference and reading, seeing how that resonates with you, and then honestly going and meeting them. And if after that first visit, you don't feel like they're a good match for you, then you need to move on and go somewhere else. Yeah. Trusting your own intuition about how that person feels when they do they make you feel comfortable. Do you feel trusting? Do you feel like they're not what they know what they're talking about? Those are the things that I would recommend?

Katie: 12:50

Can I get? That's good advice. Yeah, that's great advice. Can I ask personal questions? Can I can I get a little diagnostics? I?

Debbie: 12:58

I'm very, very honest and revealing. So ask whatever you want.

Katie: 13:03

Well, I'm just curious. So and we talked about this actually, you're the Debbie's the whole reason why I went to a chiropractor recently, because I we chatted on the phone not that long ago, and I found a great chiropractor that I'm thrilled with there. I felt like that. They went through all the processes that you just explained, I feel, you know, really good feeling about them. So she did an x ray. And we found out that my hips were like, misaligned, and I'm thinking is I guess I'm just curious, like, is this something that I was born with? And it's just now aggravating me? Is this something that is happening over time? Like, like, how do these things? How does that even happen?

Debbie: 13:37

How old is your youngest? Okay,

Katie: 13:39

my youngest is four. My oldest is eight. Okay,

Debbie: 13:43

were you somebody who carry your kids on your hip? A lot? Yes. On your side? Yeah. Okay. And do you remember which side you carry? I

Katie: 13:51

carry them on the side all the time on my left, which hip is which hip is high? I don't remember exactly. But that makes perfect sense. Makes better. Zero. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. But it's just bothering me so much. You know, because you spent

Debbie: 14:06

eight plus four years carrying

Katie: 14:08

your children. Yeah. Yeah, no, I

Debbie: 14:10

mean, I don't know how long you were carrying your older one, probably, you know, probably, up until your younger one was born. I would imagine you've probably spent about four years, you know, off and on carrying each of them. And that in and of itself, you know, it's amazing. One of the reasons I got into pregnancy workers because I saw this huge void for moms, both pregnant moms and women after they give birth. I mean, in my opinion, that's the most physically taxing thing that we go through. And there's not much you can do to relieve your discomfort while you're pregnant. And post pregnancy after you give birth. Oh, my God, you're barely sleeping. You're changing diapers constantly. you're breastfeeding or you're bottle feeding. You're bending down and the biggest thing is that and this is what I think is amazing about moms women We forget about ourselves because our maternal age is so, so strong that whatever our children need, our needs are like, we don't even hear them. So if you have something in your head that says, Watch how you're bending, forget it, my kids crying, I'm picking them up and putting them on my head. So I watch moms every day put themselves into compromising positions at, you know, at the detriment of themselves for their children. And that I think, is just part of our DNA. So if you're not going to someone, or exercising, stretching, doing yoga, doing all of these things to counterbalance what you're doing on a given day, especially when your children are young, you will feel it and you will have issues and I I have like a kids free policy in my office where I say, you know, bring the kids if it means I can fix you, and you don't have to pay for a babysitter. Just bring them and I've got toys in my office. And sometimes we have lots of smart kids, but it's okay, because I'm there to help them off. And I sometimes help the kids too.

Amy: 16:00

Yeah, that's, that's a really good message. Because you're right, when you first make it, you're thinking about that, right? And so it's like, the last thing you would think about is like, going to get drafted or

Debbie: 16:10

when you're walking into your kid's room and they're crying on the veranda and you're like, are you thinking about how you're leaning into the grave? Or like 20 pounds, and you're like, great,

Amy: 16:20

and it's like, you're you're not doing a phase where you're thinking about taking care of yourself. I feel like that comes a little bit later. So you're not even thinking like all the things like maybe if you knew it, you knew now you would, maybe Ben differently or whatever, but I remember to when my kids were born, and I was holding them so much my like, wrists and forearms were like killing me. And I was like, This is so strange. And I was like, oh, whatever, right? You just ignore it. Right? Yeah, that's so interesting. I never thought about that I

Debbie: 16:48

educate my new moms about create space for you to you know, let your kid cry for an extra 20 seconds, so that you can put yourself in a better position before you start breastfeeding. Or, you know, don't change your baby on the floor. You know, let your baby you know, have a poopy diaper for another couple minutes, you know, and take them to a more ergonomic place for you to change their diaper, things like that. Just thinking about you know, doing things differently. So you're not harming yourself. So yes, Katie, your head, I would look to that. But one of the things that I do a lot with hips like that, especially if you see on X ray that there's a misalignment and you can ask your chiropractor, this, sometimes there's just like a little insert that you can put into the shoe. It's like cork and it can be anywhere from, you know, like three millimeters to nine millimeters, but goes under it can go underneath the insert to your shoe. And it'll just take your low hips. So if your hips are like this, you put it in this shoe, so that your hippo come up in balance. Oh, that's interesting, okay. And it's just a very benign, something that in you know, like I usually sell, especially for someone like you, you probably need a bunch of them for all your shoes. Like,

Katie: 17:58

I was gonna say, Do I have to switch it every time I've wear a different pair of shoes, because that would be a problem.

Debbie: 18:02

I just stick it in your shoe. And then you don't even have to think about it.

Katie: 18:05

Yeah, no, that's interesting. That's a great tip. I'm definitely going to ask about that. Because I like it's the alignments. And the adjustments are without a shadow of a doubt helping, but it's, it's not fixed yet. And I can tell and my other question for you is like, they want me to come three times a week. So when someone is first coming to you with a problem, how frequently do you like to see them? I can't get in three times a week. I'm trying but it's like, really once? What do you suggest?

Debbie: 18:30

So, you know, it's that's like a kind of a common, that's also a common myth. Or, you know, one of the things I had, I had thought about when you asked me that question earlier was, you know, do I have to see the chiropractor for the rest of my life, like, I don't want to become an addict, and you know, feel like I need this forever. That's, you know, a very common myth. When somebody first starts care, depending on the issue, and depending on what's going on with them, having them come twice, or three times a week is usually what's recommended for the first four to six weeks. And the reason is not because we're trying to get as much money out of them as possible. But it's usually because the chronicity of the problem has been there, especially with someone like you and your what you just described, it didn't just happened overnight, or over the last couple of months, it wasn't like you slipped and fell two weeks ago, and now your hips been bothering you, it's probably been building for quite a number of years. So to correct it is not something that's going to happen with one or two visits. And if we see you once a week or once every other week, you're probably going to return to the lifestyle habits that you're doing that are aggravating it. And so you're kind of like a bandaid instead of really trying to address the underlying problem, which we can do more readily if we see you in a closer together period of time and then we're telling the spine once it's coming out of alignment note you got to go back to this position and then we're also encouraging you while we're working on you to talk to you about how are you sitting and how are you sleeping and tell me when you sit down on the couch and watch TV Are you like you know holding your legs underneath your hips? Or are you you know, thinking about where your legs are, are you walking around the house barefoot, or, you know, like, all of these little things about your daily life are going to impact your your healing. So I want to both treat it regularly for the first four to six weeks. And I want to educate you so that you're doing the right things when you're not with me to help facilitate the healing, okay,

Amy: 20:26

someone would potentially go four to six weeks, and then they're kind of in maintenance mode under that we,

Debbie: 20:31

we have, everybody does it a little bit differently. But we have three phases of care. And I call acute for the first four to six weeks where I'm really trying to get you out of pain. The second phase was another four to six weeks, but we're seeing you less frequently, once a week, once every other week. And that's called stabilization, where I'm trying to just stabilize the issue. And then we move to maintenance, which is typically once a month or once every two or three months. And then I'm just maintaining what we've done kind of just making sure that you're still staying where you are. And you know that frequency can extend out if you're if everything seems good, but periodically, I just want to check your issue. And make sure that like the dentist that you're coming in and that your spine is aligned.

Amy: 21:10

Yeah. And I think it also depends on the severity of the issue, right? Because when I came to see you I came in a few times, but they weren't in the same week. I think it was like once every few weeks until I felt better. Yeah. And you know, now I haven't been back. So I think it also depends on feeling. Can I ask fine? Yeah, totally fine. I think, you know, just sometimes my neck will be in pain, but I'm a little bit more aware of it. I'm trying to stretch. And that's what I was gonna ask you to for listeners. So I love all the tips you just gave before. What are some tips like good stretches are things that people can do every day, to keep their body in alignment, a lot of people are sitting on computers, like what are small little things that people could start doing today.

Debbie: 21:49

So my biggest recommendation, and I do this every single day is to foam roll. I absolutely love foam rolling. And I think it is good for every single spine. We spend so much time compressed, you know both at the computer at work with our children, you know, we're in this compressed forward flex kind of state. And if you can open up your spine and expand it and have a foam roller that kind of is rolling across it and helping you to just elongate and extend. I think that's an awesome tool. And there's so many videos on YouTube that can show you how to foam roll. And that's a really inexpensive, something that you can buy at Walmart or Target. Yeah,

Amy: 22:32

that's a great tip.

Debbie: 22:34

So foam rolling number one, number two is when you are someone who's sitting in front of a computer all day or really anything at any job, I recommend stretching your neck, and I recommend stretching it in six different parts. So actually eight different positions you both have both are doing it. So she's posted lateral flexion. So left and right lateral flexion. Then you've got what we call flexion, which was going forward extension, which is going back, and then you've got rotation, which is turning to each direction. And then my favorite one, which is I call sniff the armpit where you're wearing the nose to the armpit and put your hand on the crown of the head

Amy: 23:12

and pull. Yeah, I love that one. Oh, yeah, that's a nice way you show me these, and I haven't been doing them. Yep, so

Debbie: 23:18

that's gonna really help both with the lower neck and the upper back and PT. What I then say is check your nose and take a deeper sniff. So go a couple degrees further. And then pull down towards

Amy: 23:29

this video out so people can see it. This is hilarious feel the upper back,

Debbie: 23:33

it's also a good opportunity to make sure that you're not smelly.

Amy: 23:37

Yeah, that's, that's really good. Because you just sit at your desk and do that when you're on a call. I yeah, I haven't been I forgot about those, I need to

Debbie: 23:45

recommend when you're in the car, and this is good for like, you know, my stage of life where I'm constantly driving my kids to a million different places, is all you know, just periodically, I recommend doing add a light not while you're driving, but I'll just retract my chin into the headrest, and just push and hold. And that helps to strengthen the anterior neck muscles. And we spend so much time on what we call forward head carriage with the phone and the computer. That by doing that and kind of using your head rests in your car, it really helps to remind your neck in your head that they Your head should really be right on top of your shoulders ear should be right on top of the shoulder within here. So kind of pulling back retracting like a chicken and pushing the head into the headrest and holding for five and then relaxing. That really is helpful. Yeah, I

Amy: 24:35

love all these tips because it's I think integrating these things into the things you're doing in your daily life. So it's not an extra task. It's like you're in the car anyway, you're at a light do that right? That was like one nostril breathing one amount of light just to relax. So I love that. Okay, so quickly before we get into our rap session. Deb, I want to hear about you know running your practice as a businessman. Then because not only are you taking care of people on the daily, but you're running a really successful practice, and it's a lot, so give us your kind of POV on that. I know you'd like that side of the business, but it's very different. It is,

Debbie: 25:11

it's hard, it's great. And I love it. And I think I love it because I like people a lot. And I think what makes you good at it is, is, is being good to people and knowing, knowing what you how people want to feel. So I think, you know, I've always been a people person. And I knew that I wanted to go into a field where I was working with people. But there's a difference between working with people and really being in the right space, in terms of helping them to feel both not intimidated, welcomed, you know, my patients, I mean, I have a community of people who, most of them come in and hug me hello. I mean, even you know, now we asked, like, is it okay, if I hug you because of the pandemic, you know, I have an environment that's really friendly and warm. And so that part of becoming successful was easy for me, the part and I'll just back up and tell you that I have a father, that's an entrepreneur, so I kind of grew up in your office and, and watching him build multiple businesses. And so one of the boxes that I wanted when I was in college and trying to figure out what my career was going to be, was a job in which I could be my own business owner someday, knowing that I could be a mom, and that I could have a family and I could also have a business. And in healthcare, that's a little hard because I didn't want to be on call. I didn't want to be, you know, needed on the weekends, I didn't want to deliver babies in the middle of the night. So this field fit for me in that regard that I knew I could create my own practice in my own business. But yeah, it is hard, I definitely have a lot more gray hair as a result. You can't tell because I highlight but but yes, it's stressful. And the hardest part is probably just managing people, staff management. And right now in the pandemic. I mean, this has been the hardest two years of my life. Being a healthcare provider through a pandemic has really been challenging. I think health care providers have very much been on the frontlines. with teachers, you know, we we've I mean, teachers were, I don't want to talk about teachers, they went through their own, you know, challenges, but I was, Amy, Amy and our other two closest friends and I have been on a text thread since a couple days before the pandemic really hit. And I was the only one going to work every day, they were all home working from home and their careers. And jobs continued in the comfort of their home and I was home for six weeks, and then back in the office with a ton of PPE on having no idea if I was gonna bring COVID back into my home. But having too many people in pain and hurting that I had no choice but to go in. So it's that part of the responsibility of, of being available for people, you know, in a snowstorm like I usually open and I'm usually there because I feel a responsibility to be. So it's an awesome it's an awesome reality that I've created this business and that it's successful. But it definitely comes with a lot of stress and a lot of burdens. That, you know, people who don't own businesses don't really know from right, but you wouldn't change it. No, I wouldn't, because I absolutely love the freedom and I could never imagine having someone tell me what to do now.

Katie: 28:35

Totalling? Yeah,

Amy: 28:36

I feel you on that. Okay, so we're gonna get into our rap session. So besides keeping your spine aligned, what would you say is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Debbie: 28:49

So I told you about the foam rolling, that's definitely number one and number two that you made that we didn't really touch on. And this is a big one for me, is I take a CBD gummy every night before bed nice. And I started doing that over the last six months six to nine months or so both because I feel more discomfort physically than I used to. And hormonally I am in a stage where I was like waking up in the middle of the night, every night at like three in the morning like on the nose and wide awake and couldn't get back to sleep and so that insomnia was something really new for me. And the CBD which has really awesome anti inflammatory benefits helps me to stay asleep and I have an awesome night of sleep because of a brand. So I actually saw this brand in my practice. It's called noetic nutraceuticals. And it was created by a friend of mine who I believe you know wholeheartedly in his science and in the process in which they went through to create it and that's probably a whole nother podcast in and of itself. But not all CBD is created equal.

Katie: 29:57

Yes, I agree with that. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, but

Debbie: 30:00

no, that's probably my best health hack besides the foam roll

Katie: 30:04

that's a good one. I'm gonna have to try it because I was doing CBD like tinctures for a little while at nighttime. This was a couple of this was like during the pandemic in the beginning, and you're right, they're not all created equal. Like I I had to stop because I don't know it just it wasn't working for me, but I would really love to try that one. Okay, sure. The next one, we call it our five minute flow. Just got out of the shower. Uber ping do their five minutes away. What are you going to do to get into that? Uber on time, get yourself ready? What are your holy grails your go twos?

Debbie: 30:33

You know, Amy's gonna totally laugh at this and she could probably answer this for me and the answer is Ubers gonna have to wait. That's like never a possibility for me to get out the door in five minutes. There's a joke. I'm I have an issue with punctuality. Getting out the door to five minutes. Uber might have to wait an extra minute or two. But yeah, what would I do? I I don't ever ever get dressed without putting body cream on all over. Face Cream. legs, hands. I think I'm like a little dry. So like if I don't do that, I feel weird. So that's number one. Number two would be hair gel. I have curly hair as you can see. And so like just throw hair gel in and then run out the door. And mascara lipstick even during masking lipstick.

Katie: 31:24

Wow. Really? Yeah. They make you feel good. Yeah,

Amy: 31:30

I mean, if you felt like finished, yeah,

Debbie: 31:32

finished or like, you know, like going out lipstick.

Amy: 31:35

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Debbie: 31:41

Oh, that's a good question. And to be totally honest, there's lots of days where my nirvana is missing. I think it's hard. Being a mom business owner chiropractor. I am often needed by everyone else. And so the biggest challenge for me is creating space where I get to exist without anyone needing me. Some days I can accomplish it. And other days I cannot exercise. Nice weather this morning. I went out for a walk and oh my god, it's so gorgeous out. And honestly, this is gonna sound really ridiculous. My dog.

Katie: 32:17

Yeah, that's.

Debbie: 32:19

That's an unconditional constant. And I love that she doesn't really need much from me.

Amy: 32:24

That's yeah, sweet. What

Katie: 32:25

kind of dog kind of dog is she?

Debbie: 32:27

A beagle Collie max. And she's just

Amy: 32:30

as like the best dog you've ever met. She has the best personality. She's like a human. And she is like, so sweet and so friendly. And like, she's such a sweet.

Katie: 32:39

I love puppy Snuggles. That's great. I love that. Nice. Yes.

Debbie: 32:43

And that's probably what brings me my Nirvana more than anything is coming home to her because she is just always super happy and only wants to just

Amy: 32:52

she's obsessed with you.

Debbie: 32:55

And I'm obsessed with her. So it's I don't blame you.

Katie: 32:58

She's the sweet. That's

Amy: 32:59

awesome. So I have a quick product review that. I think Debbie, you might have an opinion on, which is why I wanted to review this today. And I haven't I don't have a full review because I'm still trying it. But I recently got this LED lights, like this red light. I'm gonna put it in the screen. I

Katie: 33:18

saw that in your bedroom. And I was like, Wow, is this contraption I'm not surprised. Amy is the one that has it, of

Amy: 33:25

course. So I've been wanting to try red light forever. Because I've heard it has really great benefits anti inflammatory, it's really good for so many different issues. And this one I got on Amazon. But I had seen it because I got a facial a couple of months ago or something and the woman when she had my mask on or something did this red light, but it was like a portable one. So we'll share a picture of it on our Instagram. But it's kind of like a small little LED light that's flexible and can go over your face. So you just sit there for 10 minutes or 20 minutes and it goes on your face. So I've I haven't carved out enough time to do it. Like a lot of people do it daily a couple of times a week. I have noticed that when I do it. My skin does look good, but I know it's cumulative. But I would love to hear your thoughts, Deb on red light therapy because I know it's very much like in vogue right now. And a lot of people are starting to use it. But I have heard it has incredible benefits, but I want to hear your point of view on it. Well,

Debbie: 34:14

I don't really know a lot about it and in terms of facial rejuvenation, but I would love to come over and try it at your house. But I know that my acupuncturists, we have red lights. We have red light lamps in my office and I dry needle and they do acupuncture and when I have the needles in the person's back, we put the red light on top. Yeah, and it's supposed to help further the benefit of the needle into the tissue. So I know that there's definitely some, you know, Eastern philosophy that the red light is really helpful and that it really can benefit you know tissue and wellness and reduce inflammation and all of that. So I would imagine it should be good For the face, I've never tried it.

Amy: 35:01

Yeah, and this one actually I use it for my face. But like if I had, you know, joint pain or something, they say, this is flexibles you could like put it on your arm, you could put it on your leg, you can really put it anywhere. We were actually thinking, forgetting one, but we've been researching like the red light saunas, like the big ones that you can walk in, because it's supposed to be just so good for you like for every part of your body. So anyway, I'm testing it out. I'll keep I'll keep the audience informed on it. But so far, so good. Just gotta carve out a little bit more time for it. But that's, that's a fun one. And

Katie: 35:29

Amy, the brand and the name of that and how much was oh,

Amy: 35:33

yeah, sorry, this one I researched. This one's on Amazon. It's called hydras, skincare PD, PDT, LED light photodynamic facial skincare rejuvenation, photon therapy machines $279. I will put a link to it, but I had researched this one. And I feel like this was the one she had recommended, etc. So we will talk about that. And just for everyone listening, if anybody wants to reach out to Debbie, I would say to go to your website. Right, Deb? Is that the best place for people to find you? It's blocked? chiropractic.com?

Debbie: 36:05

No, it's actually as Laurie chiropractic center.com. Sorry, Chiropractic Center. And there's a contact on there where you can just click and send an email and it'll come right to us that you're at if you're interested.

Amy: 36:18

Okay, perfect. Yeah. And then you're gonna close that. Go ahead.

Debbie: 36:22

No, I was just gonna say that. Besides chiropractic. There's also acupuncture and massage therapy, too. If that was something else, that somebody wanted to look for it, we can do a podcast in the future talking about those things.

Amy: 36:31

I know I would love to. And I was saying to Debbie, when I was there, I'm like, I need to spend a whole day here. I need to get adjusted, then I need to get a massage. These are all the things that I love. This is like, no mana day for me. But in Okay, and we always like to

Katie: 36:44

go Yeah, I was just gonna say like, that's something that I love so much about what you do. It's like it's holistic, you're approaching the body holistically. And I just, I think it's great. We were when we first started doing thinking about doing this episode with you. You know, you can think like we were saying before, like could the chiropractic care, it's just adjusting the bones in the spine, it but it's so much more than that. And I love that our listeners learned that today. And I just love your approach and everything. So thank you for being with us today, Debbie.

Debbie: 37:17

Yeah, you guys. I really appreciate you having me. All right.

Amy: 37:20

And we always like to close out with a mantra to set a tone for the end of the episode. So Katie has one for us today.

Katie: 37:26

I do and it is Be kind to yourself. Your body is a temple and You are the Goddess that resides within it. So to carry your body and go find a Kyra

Debbie: 37:41

episode. It's perfect. Thank you.

Amy: 37:43

Good one. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 51 - Align Your Spine And Your Health With Dr. Debra Block - Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 51 Align Your Spine And Your Health With Dr. Debra Block, Part 1.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

.Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And I'm so excited. We have been wanting to have my best friend Debbie on the show for so long. She's very, very busy. So I'm very happy that she's here with us today. And this all started because I've always been scared to go to the chiropractor, which is crazy, because I know it's not a big deal. But for some reason, I was always freaked out, as Debbie knows. And I recently went to Debbie and experienced the whole thing. And it was incredible. And it opened my eyes to the world of it. So we wanted to have the show to kind of shed some light on the chiropractic category. And Debbie is the perfect person to do this. So I won't call her Debbie. That's my friend Debbie. But Dr. Deborah Block always knew that her purpose in life was to help people to improve their lives. After attending the University of Florida and obtaining her BS in psychology. She realized that she wanted to help people improve their health, both mentally and physically. She discovered the awesome benefits of chiropractic care in 97. While attending life University in Georgia, Dr. Block received her doctor of chiropractic degree in 2001, and went on to develop her own practice within a group in Georgia and after practicing in Georgia for a few years, she decided to return home to Maryland to continue practicing chiropractic close to her family and friends. So after joining a practice there for five years, she decided to open her own practice in 2008. And accomplish her dream of running her own practice and treating patients with the individualized attention and high quality care that she feels patients deserve and need in this current world of health care. So Debbie has owned her successful practice for 14 years that has grown into that has grown to include chiropractic, acupuncture, massage, therapy, and weight loss. For the entirety of her career, Dr. Block has consistently educated herself on the newest latest and greatest advances in the chiropractic profession, as well as the latest developments in patient care. She is certified in the Webster technique for chiropractic care during pregnancy, I know you do a lot of focus on pregnancy. And as a member of the International chiropractic Pediatric Association, she is also certified in dry needling, Dr. Blocks philosophy is to care for patients in a way that she would want to be cared for she strives hard every day to be the type of doctor that can give patients the assistance that they're looking for, whether it's with a smile, a friendly greeting, a courtesy phone call, a hug or individually individualized attention. She has done all of this over the past 20 plus years, all while raising twins that just turned 16. And I can attest to all of the hard work and passion Debbie has put it Dr. Block sorry, has put in over the years, because I just went in for the first time and I can see the care that she puts into the practice and the way even that she worked with me, but she worked with me the same way she works with all of her patients. And it's really rare because you definitely don't go to practices a lot where the doctors actually take an interest. It's more of a, you know, machine where people are in and out. So definitely a special experience when you're working with Debbie. And I think also, as I was thinking through this preparing for this interview, I was like Dr. Block has really been an early adopter in this like holistic health space. I mean, you've been doing this for so long. And I think you know, over the last 510 years, it's become in vogue, all of this holistic health and all of this, but it really wasn't when you started doing it. And I think you probably got a lot of looks and stares like oh, what field are you going into? And it's so mainstream now. So I want to hear a little bit about that. And not only that, I mean, and I was thinking about this, too. You're an entrepreneur, and you have this amazing practice. And not only you're treating patients, but you're running a business, and it's so hard. And that's why, for our listeners, it's been so hard to get Debbie on. She's so busy. But it's such an interesting topic. We haven't had anyone in this field on the show. And so we wanted to have her on and kick off all the questions we have about this incredible career and occupations. So welcome to the show, Debbie.

Debbie: 4:40

Thank you so much. That was an awesome introduction. I can use one of those like every week.

Amy: 4:45

I know right? You listen, you're like oh my gosh, I really have accomplished a lot.

Debbie: 4:48

Thank you. Yeah, it's awesome. Thank you. That was sweet.

Amy: 4:52

Yeah. So we are going to start off the show as we always do with our weekly nirvana. So this is where we talked about something that's sparked a little joy in our week or day or month, whatever it may be big or small, something that just sparked joy and put a little smile on our face. So I will hand it off to Katie to start. Thanks, Amy.

Katie: 5:10

Well, let me say hi to Debbie. Dr. Block. Are we calling you Debbie? Are we calling you Dr. Block? What are we doing here tonight?

Debbie: 5:17

Debbie director blocks to formal for this.

Katie: 5:19

All right. Well, I'm so happy you're here. And I can't wait to pick your brain. But before I do my nirvana of the week, I just want to mention I was perusing your website. And on Google, there was a review about Dr. block that was just so great that I just wanted to say it's so sorry to if this embarrasses you, but it says I've been in there. It's a great, it's such a good review says I've been in the military for 30 years, I have received medical care in seven states and three countries, I have not experienced a more professional, hard working and effective health care provider. Dr. Block is one of the best period that's from John L on Google. And I just thought that says somehow it says so much. So I just wanted to say,

Amy: 6:04

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah,

Katie: 6:06

so my nirvana of the week, I'm going to think might be the same as Amy's we'll have to see. We had a photoshoot on Thursday for the Nirvana sisters brand for our website and our branding and everything that we're expanding and growing with. I was just in Maryland for the week for spring break with the kids and so that the cousins can be together and Amy and I could get some work done actually work face to face for the like, it never happens literally ever. So that was great. That was my nirvana. It was such a fun day. We had such a great time. And the funniest thing was like Amy was saying to me, you know, used to be a model, you know, you're doing she's like, I feel like I'm gonna be so stiff. I don't know what to do. And I was giving her some tips and then the camera comes on. And I mean, did this girl come alive or what? Like she she was like, so vivacious and having so much fun. And it was it was so it was just great. It was such a fun day. So what was your Ami? What was your nirvana?

Amy: 7:07

Yeah, I Yes, mine is definitely the same one. And we normally don't have the same Nirvana's. But yeah, I mean, it was such a fun day. It was just nice to be able to do something that was our own and really lead the vision in the direction and it was just super fun. And yeah, we're building our website. And so a lot of these photos we use on the website and all of this stuff. So it's super fun. What about you, Deb?

Debbie: 7:29

I can't wait to see them. Yeah, um, mine has to be tied to my kids, which I don't know if that's allowed or not. Yes. So I have had a crazy week with work. It's been one of those, like everything that could go wrong went wrong this week. And it's been super stressful. And one day after work, I was running to my daughter's lacrosse game and picking up my son from work. And I had this like two hour block where I got to watch my daughter and her joy on the lacrosse field. She plays for her high school team and watching her you know, really successful and really aggressive and really loved by this group of girls that she's playing with. This is a brand new sport. She literally like picked up a lacrosse stick for the first time right before tryouts. And I really watched all of the stress of my week just kind of leaves me seeing her and her joy and seeing what she's, you know, able to do. And then soon thereafter, I had to pick up my son from his first day of his first job. And he's working on a golf course he's in charge of the carts cleaning them and driving them to and from Oh, that's so cool. Where some like, you know, Mom of me, I'm like, Does he even know how to drive the golf cart. Meanwhile, he's like, responsible for driving 30 of them. And anyway, and I got there early, earlier than when he was finished. And I ended up parking and watching him work for, like 30 minutes or so. And it was awesome to see your 16 year old, responsible and capable and working and at the end of be trying to grab him. The guy that was training him came over and told me how awesome he was doing and just a moment of pride, you know, realizing that like both of my children are in good places. And that was just a very, very Nirvana kind of feeling

Amy: 9:16

and love that. Those are great. Yeah.

Debbie: 9:18

Thank you.

Amy: 9:19

So nice. Such good kids such good

Unknown: 9:21

kid. Thanks. It's hard. It is hard,

Katie: 9:24

I'm sure and especially I can't imagine. Yes.

Amy: 9:28

Double hard. Yes. Okay. So Dr. Block, aka Debbie, Deborah, give a quick intro to the audience. I mean, I kind of teed you up, but just a quick soundbite on you know, you and your practice and all of that. Or your background. I would say,

Debbie: 9:46

you know, what you didn't read in the bio was that I really didn't know anything about chiropractic before I went to chiropractic school, which is really unusual. Most chiropractors either like, you know, start out as patients as children or teenagers or they have some accident or trauma and chiropractic change their physical well being. So they enter into the program, I really knew nothing about chiropractic for me, I was, I was going forward to psychology and wanted to go that route. But then realized, in order to do it the way I wanted to do it, it was going to be eight years of schooling after college. And I kind of fell into this chiropractic idea. And it really fit all my boxes, I had very specific criterion for what I was looking for in my career. And this meant all of them. But the physical part of adjusting the spine and, and working with the spine was not really something I was well versed in. So that was a huge learning curve for me. And it was not it didn't come easily, it took me a lot of time to find people that were like minded to me, the chiropractic field is very, very varied. In the type of practitioners you can come across, some are more medically oriented, some are more philosophically oriented. And so you have a large continuum of different types of chiropractors. But I went to chiropractic school, I finished in four years, I stayed in Georgia to practice. And I really seeked out this profession because I knew I wanted to work with people. And I knew I wanted to work in healthcare. But I also knew very clearly that I did not want to work with sickness, I didn't want to work with ill people, I didn't want to work with dying patients. And I didn't want to prescribe drugs. Those things I knew just weren't in my understanding of health. So I was seeking something that gave me an opportunity to be a health care provider that met the met those criteria. And this did, what I didn't take into total account was the level of physicality that my job requires. And that's been harder as I've gotten older, to be honest. But the work itself is unbelievably rewarding and unreal, unbelievably, filling in terms of you know, how I feel at the end of the day after helping people.

Katie: 12:02

Yeah, I was just gonna say it to the point to the physicality of it, you have to be really strong. I mean, you're handling people all to end moving. And I've just recently started seeing chiropractor, we can get into that in a little bit. But yeah, I would imagine, it's, that's not easy. And so that was a surprising learning curve for you.

Debbie: 12:24

Yeah, it was. And you know, honestly, when I went into chiropractic school, I wasn't really as focused on my own health and well being as I needed to be. And I really started working out and getting healthier and watching my nutrition and watching my diet, and trying to focus on on endurance and strength, and all of those things, knowing that my future was going to be demanding physically. And obviously your body kind of you get a rhythm and you learn how to do things more safely, more carefully as time goes on. But Amy had also mentioned earlier, when she was talking about how things are so much more mainstream now, I've been practicing for 21 years. And when I went to chiropractic school, it's really interesting. I think there was like 5%, females, I was LA, I was one of the very, very few women. And I actually one of my boxes that I was looking to are not necessarily looking to fulfill, but it works for me was that I recognized that a female in a space where there weren't many females was bound to be successful. So I knew that, you know, the fact that there weren't many female chiropractors would would bode well for me. And it really has, what I do is intimate, you know, I touch people all day long. And not everybody's okay with that. So having an not to say that male chiropractors aren't, you know, capable of earning patients trust, they are very much so. But I think inherently it's just more of a natural, a natural experience for a female doctor to be able to gain that comfort on that trust with the patient and also read when they need you to, you know, step back or when they're okay to let you in. So that was a really interesting thing. And now chiropractic school is like 5050 females and males, there is no longer a curve like that. So it's really in my 21 years of practicing, not only have we come far in terms of females in the profession, but we've also come very far in terms of respect in the profession.

Amy: 14:23

Yeah, I love that. I never actually thought about that before. So taking a step back just to for people who are listening who have never seen a chiropractor. Why should people see when like, what are the benefits and what can people expect when they go to do it? Because I mean, for me, I've done a lot of holistic treatments. I've done acupuncture, I've done a million things, but I was always so nervous. And even though, you know, for those listening, Debbie has been my best friend for 25 years plus 30 years. So I didn't even want Debbie to do it until recently because I was so freaked out it was like in my own head. But why should people see wine like if you can give us sort of the The DL on that? Sure.

Debbie: 15:02

So honestly, chiropractic care is really good for anybody with a spine, which is everyone. I mean, even honestly, animals receive chiropractic care. And I'm an animal lover and would have even gone into animal care. There's actually a huge field of it with racehorses. My veterinarian has my veterinary office has a a veterinarian that specializes in spinal spinal adjustments for animals. So it really is something that anything anyone with a spine can benefit from. But the reality is that the life that we live now and 2022 is so demanding on our lives physically, chemically, emotionally, that all of those stressors, physical, chemical, and emotional, all create issues and potential misalignments within the spine, the spine is made up of 24 vertebra, they all have the ability of the vertebra to move and shift. And when we are either experiencing the physical trauma, a car accident, a slip and fall, a broken bone that then requires us to walk on crutches or in a shoot, you know, if there's genetic history of spinal conditions, dowagers hum forward flexion of the spine. I mean, there's like a whole list of things that can create issues for someone. But what I've seen more than anything, is ergonomics. Right. So in the last few years, I've seen more of this than I have ever seen in my career. And honestly, in the last few years, I've worked harder physically than I ever have. Because people are a mess right now. I think working from home was such a tremendous change for people physically and emotionally that it just wreaked havoc on everyone. Whether it was the stress of managing your children who are doing virtual school in the room next to you while you're trying to work on your laptop at home. I mean, I had patients working, you know, on their laptops, in their beds, on their couches in their, on their dining room tables. And just the simple act of spending five to eight hours a day on your computer at home, to have screwed up people so royally the chairs wrong, in even just a laptop, which I would say probably 90% of people now use laptops and not desktops, a laptop was made for travel, it was never created for people to work on a laptop at home, there's no way to type on the keyboard, have your laptop and look in the screen and have it well aligned for your arms and your wrists and your neck and your head. It's just not configured that way. So I can't tell you how many times I've told people, okay, you need to put your laptop up onto a stand, and you need to get a portable keyboard and you need a portable mouse. Because there's no way you can be ergonomically correct for your head, and your neck and your arms on a laptop. So just that one iota, then we've got cell phones, then we've got you know, anything that pulls you forward and keeps you there for a prolonged period of time. And even my new moms who are breastfeeding and changing diapers, all of these activities, people whose whose stitch or who do you know projects in their lap, all of these things pull you forward and hold you there. And if you do them regularly, then those are habitual, poor body postures that are going to eventually translate to spinal issues and or spinal pain. We see young children, teenagers, adults, geriatric. So I really see the gamut of what your spine looks like when you're young versus what it looks like as you age. And if you have had traumas, if you've had a lot of emotional stress in your life, if you've had poor poor posture, if you're an athlete, and you've gotten, you know, a bunch of injuries, while playing sports, all of these things are going to translate, you may not have any issues in your 20s or 30s. But by 40s, and 50s, those those things start to catch up with you. And in my opinion, it's much better to go and see a chiropractor as early on in life as possible, so that you can start that foundation of spinal alignment early. You don't need to have a lot of care when you don't have a lot of issues. And you want to create a space where your body kind of learns how to have what I call maintenance treatments that allow your spine to know how to maintain alignment and maintain movement and motion so that you don't end up as a 45 year old or a 50 year old who has significant degeneration and significant restriction and significant discomfort. It's interesting

Amy: 19:27

really, the idea is you want to be proactive, like a like many things versus going in when there's a problem because then it's almost too late or you

Debbie: 19:36

read dental cleaning, right? Like we don't wait until our teeth are falling out to go and get a cleaning. We go every six months to make sure our teeth are okay. And when they say they're okay, we go okay, great. And then we'll be back in six months. So it's kind of a similar mentality. Like you should be getting your spine checked. And depending on how much you're doing in your life, it may equate that you need it more frequently or less frequently, depending on what's going on in your world.

Katie: 19:59

Yeah, As you're saying all of this, it's reminding me of the three times in my life that I have sought out a chiropractor to help with what was going on. And they were all for three very different reasons like the most reason why I'm having hip pain. And it just occurred to me as you're speaking to me. The last year, I started working doing this, and I'm sitting at a dusk and on a keyboard way more than I have in the last decade. So maybe that's part of it. Before that it was sciatica from pregnancy. Before that, when I was a fit model, I was told it was from these, like, micro micro movements that I did over and over and over and over and over again, from when I was working, I would always turn my head this way. And, you know, it's like these little teeny things over time, can cause the problem. I just find it interesting, because I think people often think it's like, it's a trauma thing. I was just in a car accident, so I need to be adjusted for that purpose. And and the other thing is, I find interesting is that it's also very much related to the central nervous system. Right is, and that's typically the pain is stemming from, it's not, and please correct me where I'm wrong. But it's not just the things are out of line, but it's because of where your central nervous system is in relation to everything. Is that right?

Debbie: 21:12

Yeah, I love that you brought that up. Because sometimes that's like a little bit of a deeper conversation that I don't always go into right off the bat, your central nervous system is directly connected to your spine. So the brain and spinal cord are the first two things to form when you're conceived. And then the third thing that forms is the skull to protect the brain. And the fourth thing that forms is the spinal column to protect the spinal cord. So every single nerve that is coming off of their nervous system from the brain has to exit in between spinal vertebra. So if you have chronically misaligned vertebra, one, two, or five, and it's constantly putting pressure on the nerve that is exiting adjacent to it, you are going to eventually have issues in organs and or areas of your function that you may not have any idea has anything to do with your spine. But I have patients who come into me for neck pain. And you know, four weeks later, or three weeks later, they'll say to me, like, you know, I always have seasonal allergies right now, but for the first time ever, I don't Wow. You know, or I'm an asthmatic, and I usually have terrible asthma. I didn't even tell you about my asthma. But I haven't had one asthma attack since I've been seeing you and I normally have to a week. Wow. It's all the time. And it's not because I'm treating the asthma or treating the allergies. I'm treating the spine. But by clearing the interference for the nerve that's feeding the lung tissue or for the nerves that are feeding the stomach, people's gastrointestinal symptoms can improve. I even have and this always kind of blows my mind. I've had a handful of young kids come in to me parents who kind of like hear about chiropractic. And usually it's like a mom who's desperate because she can't potty train her, her her usually it's a boy having trouble getting their young child to go number two, and sometimes frequently actually chiropractic treatment to the spine in the area that feeds the intestines. And the stomach can help a young child to have a bowel movement without pain and without issue and allow them to have a bowel movement in the toilet instead of in a in a diaper. Wow. And the days when the moms like we barely made it home.

Amy: 23:25

Wow.

Debbie: 23:26

So I mean, even something as simple as bowel movements, like every single function that's doctrinaire by the nervous system has an has an impact by where the spine is, if the spine is in the wrong place, especially after years of it, it can create an issue within that within that part of the body.

Amy: 23:45

Yeah, one of the things, one of the big things so and Katie, we're going to do an episode on this soon in the future with my vestibular migraines, but that the spine is was I believe, a big part or a part of me getting these vestibular migraines because when I went to see, Debbie recently, my Atlas was out, which I didn't know. And that had happened years ago. So when I went to see another doctor, he was like, Oh, your head is literally not screwed onto your body. Right? I was like, What do you mean? And he's like your Atlas is out. You need to get it fixed. So my Atlas always comes out which Debbie can explain what the Atlas is, but it's probably common, I don't know. But that is that contributes to my headaches. So if you want to talk about that a little bit, Debbie, because I think first cervical

Debbie: 24:30

vertebra, it sits right underneath the skull. The skull has a the bottom portion of the skull is called the occiput. And the occiput is a U shaped bone. It kind of sits like this. And the occiput itself can kind of rock up or down, you know, left or right. And then the Atlas has a bone that sits right underneath it. And it's the most powerful vertebra in the whole spine. And actually, I use this example with patients frequently because it's really helpful. You guys remember Christopher Reeve about as Superman, he fell off a horse in his 40s, I want to say and he broke his second cervical vertebra. And he lost function in like 90% of his body, every single function, every single function within his body that was from C to below was no longer able to happen in his body because he had fractured his second cervical vertebra. But he could still see, he could smell he could hear he could move his head a little bit. And I don't know if he I think he could talk. And those functions were from C one and above. Wow, interesting. So the fact that he fractured that C two vertebra stopped the ability for the rest of his nervous system to function from C to below. And, you know, he, just to give him a quick nod, he had a lot to do with raising money for spinal cord research. He used his celebrity in the time that he survived, which was much longer than most spinal cord injured patients, and raised millions of dollars. So you know, this research continues. But yes, I mean, that's the reason for I mean, the whole don't, you know, breaking your neck is something that really equates to the potential for paralysis, because of the importance of the nervous system. So, so c one is a very important vertebra. It's, it's kind of the, you know, like the number one most important vertebra in the spine to make sure it's properly aligned. And what we find is when the occiput or the first cervical vertebra is misaligned, I almost always have headache patients headaches, are probably one of the most common things that walk in my office, migraines and headaches. And that relationship between the occiput and the SIR, first cervical vertebra are the very first thing that I check as well, as am I heard you talk about this jaw, that tension is also directly connected. So your TMJ or temporomandibular joint is directly connected to your first cervical vertebra and your occipital connection. And so those three vertebra are really not this isn't a vertebra. But those three joints are really important to make sure that they're properly aligned.

Amy: 27:01

Yeah, and I think so many people are like, grinding their teeth and their shoulders are up and their stress and it plays out in your neck and in your face. And so I think that makes sense why a lot of people are coming in like that. I really think

Debbie: 27:13

people with emotional issues who have issues because you know, sad, angry, you know, you hold yourself in a certain way. And that translates to what's going on physically, especially after a certain amount of time maintaining that like physical positioning,

Katie: 27:28

I have a question, how many of your patients that have come to you with these headaches and things? Have you found that they've been searching for an answer? You know, they've been there? It's like, they've tried all these other avenues? And then someone says, Have you seen a chiropractor yet? Have you gone into? Have you tried chiropractic? Does that happen often? Is it kind of a surprise to people,

Debbie: 27:49

actually, because it's not usually something that they think about, you know, and it's funny, because I've actually, over the years gotten, I have a whole bunch of dentists that refer to me now, because I've educated dentists that don't fit your patient for a mouth guard until you send them to me, let me check their jaw, and make sure their jaws where it needs to be and then fit them for a night guard to help stop the clenching. Otherwise, you're putting them in a night guard in the wrong position, potentially. And then you're encouraging this, you know, abnormal alignment. But yeah, headache. Patients are often surprised. It's not something that medical doctors are recommending, you know, getting dentists recommended has been a little bit of a, you know, an improvement. I do have neurologists that refer to me, but that's a tough sell, getting a neurologist to recognize that connection. I do have a handful that will send to me happily because their answer to me is, you know, a whole bunch of trial and error very invasive. Sometimes that's what's needed. You know, that actually, nowadays they have they've got less invasive options for headache patients. But yeah, if I can correct a headache with my hands, or if I can help a migraine patient who's suffering by just aligning the upper cervical spine, it's so much easier.

Katie: 29:03

Yeah, I have a friend that has had migraines her whole life, and I'm not sure if she's ever tried gone this route, and I'm sure she probably has, she definitely should have it. Yeah, that's definitely Shutts interesting. That's very interesting. The hormonal

Debbie: 29:15

case for women is also another big part of it for headaches and migraines. And that's something that I'm you know, starting to really work on it understanding and exploring and researching as I'm getting into the, you know, older years and the menopausal years and seeing how hormone depletion and hormone changes can really impact that as well. So I'm starting to really dive into understanding that connection, because for women, that's a big piece too.

Katie: 29:39

I have a question on the hormonal piece, and I'm not sure if it's related, maybe, you know, maybe you don't, um, I have recently started having a lot of hip pain and I know I went you know, I saw the chiropractor and she told me and we did X rays and everything but sometimes I feel like it is worse with my cycle can things like that fluctuate with your hormones as well? Do you know?

Debbie: 29:58

Definitely yeah. Funnily, I actually had a really interesting case recently that as you say that it kind of came to mind and I don't want to scare you in any way. But yeah, I had a patient who was having symptoms like that, and we ended up finding after me pushing and her OBGYN kind of excusing or dismissing her symptoms, and, you know, telling her, you know, take Advil and, and take, you know, could just take over the counter anti inflammatories that we sent her for an ultrasound, and she ended up having a huge cyst, ovary. So yeah, I mean, physical discomfort is a message from the body. It's an alarm, and it's telling you how there's nothing wrong. It's important pain is not always a terrible thing, because pain is a message. It's communication. And it's something that it's giving you feedback, you know, people often don't walk into my office until it's like a blaring alarm. And at that point, it's more difficult for me to help them and get them out of pain. Usually I will. But it's much better if you can start listening at an earlier stage and responding before it gets to that level of, you know, I'm now compromised functionally and I don't want to accept that.

Katie: 31:07

We hope you enjoyed part one with Dr. Deborah Block. Stay tuned for next week, part two, where we talk about why new moms especially need chiropractic care, tips and tools for things we can do at home. Plus, how frequently you should be seeing your chiropractor and what the whole experience is going to be like what to expect, so stay tuned for next week's

Amy: 31:30

thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 50 - The 101 On Psychedelic Therapy With Julia Mirer M.D. (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 50 The 101 On Psychedelic Therapy With Julia Mirer M.D.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters. Today we are tackling a super interesting topic that Amy and I are really curious about. And it's been a big buzz lately and our fantastic guest is going to enlighten us on it. So, our guest today is Dr. Julia mirror. She's a consultant in the emerging field of psychedelic medicine. She serves as a bridge between eastern and western practices is committed to merging them to help create a new paradigm for Integrative Health and Wellness which sounds so interesting. She was on the road to a career in pediatrics, but seeing the pitfalls of the current healthcare system decided to shift gears to explore transformative medicine, where she found her calling and advocacy and education. Julia's passion lies in education and advocacy for the responsible use of these medicines. Dr. Mayer believes that a successful future for this field depends on the interplay between policy research in clinics and is therefore positioned herself to play a role in each nationally. Dr. Mira is an advisor for the plant medicine coalition lobbying the NIH for $100 million for psychedelic research in Florida. She works in psychedelic clinical research at Segal trials. As a facilitator for us Oh, and AES phase two trial using psilocybin, I always have a hard time saying that word for major nail depression. Now that most recently Dr. Mayer joined New Shama as Director of Strategy, where she hopes to combine all of her experience to create the vision of a new kind of health care system and facilitate new Shammas goal of humanizing medicine. And I can't wait to get into what you guys are doing in your shop. It's very interesting. So welcome to the show, Julia.

Julia Mirer M.D: 2:19

Thank you. Thank you for having me on. Yeah. Welcome.

Katie: 2:22

We're so excited. So why don't we kick it off? Julia, we always start with a little highlight of your week. We call it our nirvana of the week. Maybe something that brought you joy today or yesterday, little thing can be big or small. I'll let Amy get us rolling.

Amy: 2:36

Yeah. So I had to think about this one today. Because this week has just been really, really busy with so many things happening at work and with the podcasts, etc. And it's also been rainy all week. So it's just kind of like, I know, Julie, you're in Miami, so you probably haven't had as much rain as we've had up here. Or maybe you have because I heard the weather has been a little bit crazy. But it's literally been raining every single day and gray. So today is the first day that it's sunny and like perfect, crisp weather. So I walked outside this morning, and I just like took a breath. And I was like, Oh, like that feeling of just that good, crisp air. So that was my little nirvana of the day. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 3:14

That's nice. I like that. Mine is alright. I've been racking my brain all week trying to figure out what it's going to be because my Nirvana really this week is kind of

Amy: 3:22

sad that we have to be like, wait, what what brought me joy this week. Let me yell it back was

Katie: 3:26

one of those weeks, but honestly, what brought me joy. It's like it could get really deep and heavy. So I'm just going to scratch the surface and maybe one of these days we'll get into it, but I've had some hormonal imbalances and I got them ballet. It's

Amy: 3:43

huge for me staying need to hear more I can get into the sounds like in another time.

Katie: 3:47

But But yeah, I figured out what the problem was and tweaked some of my medication and have been feeling great. Like the best I thought in so long. So. So yeah, that was a super super Nirvana moment. What about you, Julia,

Julia Mirer M.D: 3:59

my Nirvana moment. So I with crypto week, this week, there's been a lot of people that are flying in because they're they're adjacently involved or whatnot. So it was really cool. There was a moment yesterday when, like five of my closest friends were all together with me for the first time like some of them are meeting for the first time. And just that moment when I was like surrounded by people who are just, you know, like family like the chosen family. It was really, really minor random moment. Oh, I love that.

Katie: 4:33

That sounds so good. We all need stuff like that right from time to time for sure. That's great. Well, good for you. Alright, well, let's dive into it. Because there's so much digging into here. Essentially, we are diving into the use of psychedelics as therapeutic medicine. And Julia, tell us what do you do as a consultant in this emerging field and how did you get into it?

Julia Mirer M.D: 4:59

So Oh, I'll go in reverse. So how I got into it was completely by accident. I was, I was in New York, I was in my pediatric residency because I always wanted to be a doctor. So I'm finally you know, in it. And towards the end of my second year, I realized that I'm not buying what I'm selling. So I resigned from a career in medicine, I joke that I left medicine to pursue a life of healing. And I moved to Miami and kind of like restarted from scratch. And I initially, you know, quarterlife crisis. I very accidentally discovered psychedelics, and very intentionally proceeded to study them. So when I first tried them, I realized, wait a second, there's something really medicinal here. This is not a drug. This is medicine. And I, when I started looking online at all the research, I was like, Oh, my goodness, like, we're not talking about this, but there's research happening everywhere. So with my medical background, and you know, my field research, if you will, I realized that there's an opportunity to bring both of these together and actually get involved in this emerging space early on, because I just started seeing how like, everything was starting to the discussion was starting. And for me, when I, when I first experienced this, I was like, Oh, this is the thing that's going to save the world, you know, like the evangelism and all that that some people experience. But then when I looked at it more critically, I realized, like, no, but this is an opportunity for us to shift things, this isn't going to change things on its own. This is something that if we can roll this out in a good way, it's really going to make a difference. So for me, I, you know, having seen the way that the Western model works, I kind of started to talk to the people to the right, people who were doctors in the space scientists in the space. And over time, the way that I got involved in this consulting stuff was because I saw that there's several different areas that are moving this industry forward. There's psychedelic research that's coming, there's clinics that are opening, there's policy that is changing. And so in my consulting work, I kind of do a little bit of everything for all those different organizations.

Katie: 7:30

It's interesting that you're able to kind of break your way into this emergent, and I would imagine somewhat like hush hush. And under the radar field, like you said, it was you had to find the right people, how did you how did those doors open?

Julia Mirer M.D: 7:45

So, you know, in 2020, everybody was on a webinar. And you know, I have a medical degree that gets my foot into doors that it doesn't necessarily belong in. So when I would watch a webinar, a panel conference, I would reach out to everyone who I resonated with everyone that was saying something that I really believed in, I would call them and I find out more. And I would ask the experts in this field, like, you know, what do you think this industry needs? Where do you think it's going? What are the like, what are the blind spots from your perspective, and every time that I would talk to someone, I would realize, Wait, there's a connection here. So if I can bring these two people together, they might actually move forward faster. And so when I first started, it was really just out of my own curiosity. And I love people. So I was getting to talk to people that were like my version of celebrities, which to me was like, very cool. It's like, I read this book, and then Oh, my goodness, yeah, you're talking to them on Facebook. This is so incredible. Yeah.

Amy: 8:49

So to back up for a second for our listeners, can you give us a one on one on like, what is psychedelic therapy? And what are the various types of psychedelics use just to kind of educate and set a baseline for everyone?

Julia Mirer M.D: 9:02

Absolutely. So there's the classical psychedelics, which are, you know, LSD, magic mushrooms, which psilocybin is the active ingredient. We have mescaline. Those are Ayahuasca those are the traditional, we call the five HTT to a receptor agonists, which means they work on the certain serotonin receptor, the other psychedelics that are discussed in the context of the clinical research going on, and existing clinical practice that includes MDMA, which is, you know, ecstasy or Molly, and ketamine, which is an anesthetic, which is already legal, and I'll go into that a little bit as well. So, when, back in this, like before the controlled substance act in like 1971, these medicines were being studied in the clinical setting in Harvard, like psychiatry, they were looking at this for a lot of different indications and And so that research has been happening, like it was already happening. And then the psychedelics came into the mainstream, you know, they came, it was kind of a cat was out of the bag, and it was being used recreationally. And then that's when they stopped, they created these laws, and then they stopped research essentially for many decades. And so the classic psychedelics work a little bit differently. Currently, ketamine is that people will sometimes say it's like the only legal psychedelic. And it's important to separate the groups because ketamine is actually a dissociative anesthetic that has psychedelic properties, while the other ones are actually, you know, the classic psychedelic when we think of it, and ketamine was synthesized in the 1960s, it was used on veterans for acute pain eventually became used for chronic pain, and pediatric populations, we'd love to use this in the emergency room instead of sedating them, because it has less effect on their respiration. So it's less of an invasive procedure, we don't have to put a tube down. And in 2019, the FDA granted breakthrough therapy designation to ketamine, for use in mental health conditions. So PTSD, depression, suicidality, it's very, very good for that. And so in the last few years, what's happened is that we've been able to start prescribing this, like clinicians are able to prescribe this to their patients in many different ways. And they've been having incredible results. With the MDMA, it's currently finishing phase three clinical trials are just finished phase three, and they are expecting to have MDMA legal like by 2023, for PTSD. And this is in the context of a lot of therapy. And the idea here, it's a heart opener, it allows you to recall the events of your trauma without the emotional link the visceral response to it like sometimes through people, it's very difficult to remember trauma. And so this creates a safe space to remember it. The other psychedelics that are currently being studied, this is actually one of the projects that I'm working on. It is the usoda study using psilocybin for major depression. So there, we use a synthetic form of it. So it's not that it's the magic in the mushrooms, but it's only a synthetic form. And we watch patients while like me and my colleagues, we sit there with the patients while they're getting this dose. And here, it's placebo controlled, but if they do get the dose, it's a very high dose. And it's really like the typical high, like, ego dissolution kind of experience. And I can talk more about that, like a little bit later and how that works. I'm curious, I just

Amy: 13:01

wait somebody. Just really quickly. Just psychedelics more so treat mental health issues and challenges? Or can it also help with other chronic diseases?

Julia Mirer M.D: 13:14

So great question. Right now, we're kind of it, it's an interesting moment in research, because we're used to having a hypothesis about a drug, and then testing the effects. Since the psychedelics have been around for so long, we actually know it's already, like, we pretty much know that it's safer than most drugs that are out there. We know that it works. And now we're reverse engineering these studies to be like, Okay, let's like start from the beginning. And we're doing very, not I don't want to say simple, but like, you know, single condition, very common condition, and we're seeing how it works there. I think the future is going to start looking at a lot of different things. And one of one of the things that with psychedelics is it's also an anti inflammatory, that the classic psychedelic, so that can help with pain. Ketamine does help with pain. One of the, as I said, it was initially used for chronic pain. So that is still a condition that it is effective for. But we are going to be looking at it for dementia, we're going to be looking at for PMS, like this is all it's alcohol for alcohol use disorders, the next study that we're going to be I believe, that we're going to be doing so it's, I think that there's going to be an opportunity to really expand on the different conditions that could be used for another one is eating disorders. You know, there's anecdotal evidence where people who tend to misuse food, like as a coping skill, a coping mechanism, they are able to kind of change their relationships. to food. And so they ended up eating less people who suffer from anorexia. They changed their relationship to themselves, thereby changing their relationship to the food. And they end up also change, like shifting out of their behavior patterns. So there's going to be so many things we don't know at all yet, like on paper. But if we ask the traditions that have been sitting with these medicines for, like millennia, I think they, they would say that they treat many things and especially like, elements of the spirit.

Katie: 15:35

Yeah, that's a really good way of putting it. But my question, help us understand how so ketamine is being used, like you said, in hospitals, essentially, as an anesthetic? How is the administration of ketamine for these intensive purposes different than in the hospital that it achieves a different effect.

Julia Mirer M.D: 15:59

So the ketamine that we use in the hospital is for sedation is a much higher dose. And this ketamine is sub anesthetic, meaning you don't get you know, you don't get put out. But you have that psychedelic experience. And then within this use, there's a number of different ways to deliver it, there's a number of different effects. So the there's three ways that are currently being used. So in the clinic, and this is what we do at New Shama, we have IV infusions, and this is 100%. bioavailable, meaning however much you put in is how much is going to be in your bloodstream. So this allows us to fine tune the dose and be able to, if the person is having a really tough experience, you actually can turn off that IV. And the experience stops shortly thereafter, which can be good for anyone who has any issues with blood pressure, because you can also give the medication for blood pressure, high blood pressure. And it will also I guess, serve to, you know, be feel a little bit more comfortable for people who aren't sure how they're going to react to this high dose, the other. And then this is a psychedelic dose. So there's psychedelic assisted therapy. And then there's psychoanalytic therapy that can be done. Or rather, psychedelic therapy and psycholytic. Psychedelic therapy is looking at the experience, like the psychedelic experience, as a mainstay of that session. psycholytic therapy uses a lower dose, and it could be IV, it could be intramuscular, it could be oral dose, but it uses a lower dose to do talk therapy during, and there's value to both. And this is going to be a very different kind of medicine just because the degree of personalization that is possible. And kind of necessary in order for people to really get the most out of this. And the other route of administration is intramuscular. So here, you know it, you're not able to just turn it off. So you kind of committed to the hour, hour and a half that you're going to be there. But this is also very beneficial when you want to do group therapy with ketamine. And this is something that we are expanding now at New Shama. And I'll dive into that a little bit as well. And then the third option, which is the oral dosing, so they said, like, there are companies that you can get an online consultation, this is a much cheaper option. But you're not in the clinic, you're getting this medicine sent to your home, and you it's not the tastiest, but you essentially are the depending on the dose that you have, you can again have a different effect. So for some people who have OCD, one of the doctors that I know, when they work with patients, they'll go for a much lower dose, because it's slightly higher dose may give them a little bit too much discomfort and the anxiety increases, and then their OCD gets worse. So there's different ways to use that as well. The issue with the fact that it's FDA, the FDA granted this breakthrough therapy designation, they're not actually able to regulate the delivery yet of the of these medicines. So they don't, they don't they don't regulate off label use. So there's currently a it's kind of like a, there's a gray zone. And we know that most doctors want to do the best. We also know that there are some people who take advantage of these gray zones, and there are places that are sending ketamine to the home. Very little kind of exploration of what the patient's past medical history is. If they have a safe place to do this medicine if they have a safe person to talk to or have they're. So those kinds of companies are the ones to be aware of. And like you realize that there's the there's like the good, the bad and the ugly. So this is the ugly part of it. And one of the things that we do in the Shama is really educate people and try to get people to understand that of all the psychedelics, ketamine is the only one that might be addictive. But if you think about it a little bit simpler, it's like morphine is addictive. But if we need it, we're still going to use it, we're going to use this in the right set and setting and it's not going to become a problem. But when you start sending it to the home, you send people homeless biking and a purpose, and then that's when the risk for dependency, and then addiction can come. Same thing is going to be with ketamine. We know if you educate the patients, then the the results are incredible. But it's really a matter of informing people and letting them know what the potential risks are, and being there for them as a support, if they feel like there's a problem.

Katie: 20:53

It's essentially like any man, it's gonna send them in that respect that you can take it home, and you can do what you will with it. And so that's kind of scary, because it's, there's no way of regulating that. But that's not new to ketamine, per se. So for people to be afraid for that reason, you know, that's why it's important to find people such as yourself, and new Shama, if you're interested in it to go about doing it, do it the right way. And we'll get into that and a little bit what all of that looks like, yeah,

Amy: 21:22

I was just gonna say for most people that are doing it typically under like doing it with a doctor or under evaluation, so it feels more safe. They're not administering it themself. And then also, is the treatment, I guess it depends on what you're treating for. But is it like you do it one time? And that's it? Or you do it over time? Or does it kind of depend on what you're treating?

Julia Mirer M.D: 21:42

So it's, so there's different ways of thinking about it. So there's a lot of research about these, you know, twice a week doses for three weeks. And because the evidence shows like, there's evidence for that working, a lot of times people just adopt that. And one of the things that we look at at New Shama is like, well, we don't know, 100%, what's right for every person. So it's up to us to actually check in with the people and see like, how are you doing? Are you ready for your next dose? Or do you want another week or so to integrate? So there's many different ways for some people, you know, they come in, they are at their wit's end, and they have this one dose, and all of a sudden, like, they're just, they reboot. And with this, you know, sudden relief from their symptoms, they do all these things in after their session, to bring joy back into their life, they start seeing their friends, again, they start gardening, they start doing the things that used to bring them joy that they haven't been able to do since their depression or anxiety kicks in. And now they just kind of run with it. So some people may only need this, you know, once some people may need it several, you know, several sessions in a row. This is an added thinking, particularly with IV dosing. With intramuscular, it's, you know, there's, there's something to be said about the fact that we, when we're under a psychedelic experience, like after a psychedelic experience, we have what we call neuroplasticity, like our mind is a little bit more malleable. And we're able to see things a little bit differently. So it's up to us to really like monopolize on that moment, and do all these different things. It depending on how long you've been, you know, in your story about whatever, you know, depression, anxiety, or whatever, you kind of whatever's become your default functioning. If that's really ingrained, maybe you do need this twice a week, for like a few weeks, just to start practicing thinking differently. The effects of ketamine within the first like 36 to 48 hours, that's your golden window, that's a lot of times, I would suggest that they follow up with a therapist that they already have, or with an integration person that we're able to offer. Because that's when you can really dig into some stuff and rewire some of those bias beliefs. And for the most part, like about seven to 10 days later, most people experience the return of some kind of symptoms, a lot of times it's less than tense. A lot of times it's like to the point that it's manageable, and they may come back in for a booster maybe in three months or so. But they also start being able to maybe lower their doses of medication, like change, change whatever the things were that were causing them anxiety, depression. So there's, yeah, it's hard for me to say that there's any kind of one way to do it. I think if we start thinking about this in terms of protocols, we're going to really miss an opportunity for some personalized medicine. Right?

Katie: 24:54

The people that are like who is this right for right? Obviously, anyone that is dealing with depression and anxiety? Is it? Is it right for people that are resistant to traditional depression? Medication Therapy? Is it? Like who is it? Because I know, you know, this. We've also heard like, it's trendy for the super wealthy banker to come in and wants to have this experience. And so he you know, it's like, that's one thing, right? That's, that's whatever, but who who are all of your research and all of your work? Who is it really targeted for?

Julia Mirer M.D: 25:34

So it does. So ketamine removes suicidal thoughts within 45 minutes. Wow. Wow. So I actually think that the future of ketamine once the other psychedelics come online and are able to be used in a clinical setting, ketamine, sweetspot, is going to be in the emergency room, in the ambulance in any setting where you get that person in their moment of like, despair. And then you have seven to 10 days to figure out what got you here? Is it your addiction? Here's an Ibogaine clinic. Is it your couples problems, here's MDMA couples counseling, traumas coming up here, psilocybin and your trauma coach or trauma therapist. So I think that that's where it's going to go. Right now, treatment resistant depression is one of the conditions that has been that is being used for major depression, anxiety, like I said, eating disorders. But the thing is that this medicine on its own is only so effective, it's really what you like, I always say that 80% of a psychedelic experience is what happens before and what happens after, it's the preparation that you do beforehand, and the application of the insights that you have the you, like, actively take part in, that really create the healing. So I think in the future, we'll be able to see how like different psychedelics work better for different conditions. At this point, we're using ketamine, for most of them, I'll say the ones that it's not, right for right now is any schizophrenia is but like, you know, either you, yourself or psychosis, or in a first degree relative. And then with bipolar, it can be tricky. So really good therapists who are able to spend the time with their patients, and monitor them closely, are able to offer the ketamine for their depressive, like depressive periods, and then they keep up with them. And they're able to make sure that they don't slip into a manic episode. And so that's a very delicate thing. So a lot of places will kind of steer clear of it, just because they may not be able to fully support that. And then in terms of the comments on, you know, the corporate wellness, yeah, the yes, people can come in, and especially right now, where they're doing this for some kind of a spiritual reason. You know, for people that want to have more performance, like improve their performance and all of that. I sometimes caution people, because sometimes we have traumas that are lurking below the surface that we're not aware of. And at times, you know, there, there can be a case where someone in the super successful, who has been working, since they were 19 years old, non stop, they may come in for, you know, two for increased performance, or whatever it is, but then they might remember a trauma that happened at 18, that put them on this path of making work, they're kind of like, if I just keep working, then everything is gonna be okay. So I always caution people where it's like, you know, there may be something that comes up that you're not comfortable with. And if that happens that, you know, make sure you have someone to talk to, to someone in that position, they may not even have the words to describe what comes up. So the last thing I want to happen is for someone to come in to be better at work, and then be crippled by a memory that they're not ready to kind of address or unable to address now that it came up.

Katie: 29:12

So the spiritual journey isn't necessarily turned away. It's just you're you're very cautious with that person and making sure that they know what they're getting into and doing it for the right reasons. Yeah,

Amy: 29:24

that's interesting. It reminds me I was just looking this up. Have you all seen Julia specifically this show that was on Netflix nine perfect strangers? Have you seen a calf?

Katie: 29:36

Yeah. I don't know if Julia would want us to talk about that or not.

Amy: 29:41

I know I made up and silly or do you think it was interesting? Or do you think it brought anything to the forefront? Like what are your thoughts on it?

Julia Mirer M.D: 29:49

So the general psychedelic community was like, What is this right? That's because like, we know we don't dose people without letting them No, like, not a thing that we do. And then you know, some of this, like the exposure therapy and like the, like locking them in a thing. Not right. Oh, like that. But that being said it definitely we can't people are people. So the same way that there are awful people in like corporate America that you know, violate human humans, you're gonna see this everywhere. So it is important to have the discussion of what should your shaman you know, or your facilitator, your guide? What should they be asking you? What should they be revealing to you about the process? So, one of the there's like a lot of conversation about women, particularly, who get sexually, like, taken advantage of under the influence of these medicines, they get, you know, you can be men and women, but there's manipulation, there's all this transference with these people. And that's devastating, because you're already vulnerable, going into this thing, experience that's making you even more vulnerable. And then someone takes advantage of this. And then how do you reconcile that later? It's very difficult to police all the bad players, but it's going to, I think, be easier to educate the consumer, you know, get influencers to start talking about, here's the questions that your facilitator should ask you, if they're not asking you about your medication, good run, there's no follow up. Like if it's just you come from the experience, there's no discussion about how you're going to be, you know, called, you know, week later or the next day, and then options for integration throughout. Like, that's not, that's not where you want to go. Like, if they're trying to upsell you on things, or like, it's just weird. Yeah,

Amy: 31:59

trust is just such an important piece. Obviously, for any one you're, you know, working within the medicine field, but specifically this because to your point, it could go really wrong if you're not careful. It also reminds it also, I wanted to ask you about that I got introduced to this field or topic. I mean, I don't know, obviously anything about it. But there was I wanted to get your opinion on this, too. There was a documentary from goop labs on Netflix, I believe, that did an episode on group therapy setting. And I think it was ketamine. And I watched the experience. And it was interesting. Have you seen that? And what were your thoughts on that program?

Julia Mirer M.D: 32:40

So I haven't seen the one on group? Was there anything in particular that stood out to you that I can comment on?

Amy: 32:47

No, it was just, it was interesting. They they took the goop people that did this show this documentary, every episode was like a different sort of experimental type of whether it was medicine or theory or whatever. So they took like a group of maybe eight to 10 people down to Costa Rica and did it it was it was sort of group therapy, but they each had their own person guiding them through the process. And it was like a 24 hour experience. So they each have their own individual experiences, but as a group, and some people freaked out to your point of like, remembering things that they didn't remember. And some people it was like life changing for so no real comment there. Just I mean, maybe for our listeners, it's like an educational piece, I would say. But I also wanted to ask you Are there things that our listeners could read or watch that you actually think are really good pieces of content that to get educated to understand a bar?

Julia Mirer M.D: 33:41

I can share, I'll think of something and I'll share with you guys put it in the notes. Off the top of my head, the one that comes to mind is fantastic fungi, which is on Netflix, it's a documentary about mushrooms. beautiful cinematography, yeah, yes. Yeah, so that's a good one. And it's a good one for all ages, like, you know, it's got beautiful imagery for kids. But it really hits home for adults, like they go into not only the way that mushrooms are helping us from like a biological kind of the Earth, but also the effects that it has on us. And then the potential effects that it might have on cognition as we age, which is a sensitive subject for a lot of people as we start seeing, you know, rising rates of dementia and cognitive decline. So that's one that I would think of in terms of the group sessions like the way you describe this one on one. That is that probably was very beneficial for the people who were having a tough experience. Because sometimes what happens when you have these group sessions, it's like, you know, one facilitator, one, they call them sometimes angels, helpers, one person to like two or three And sometimes it's a much bigger ratio. And the question becomes, are you like, are you going to be able to support people if they're going through this tough time? And are you going to be able to do it in a way that doesn't disrupt everyone else that's there. And kind of. And that's, that's tough. So for us at New Shama, so we're working on doing group cohorts. And the idea here is that it's not just people that come in together, and they do a dose together, because we really don't know what's going to come up. And then we don't know how people are going to feel sometimes, you know, if they're having this really emotional feeling, depending on their level of awareness of what's going on, there might be guilt, like you feel bad that you're causing disturbance to the others. There might be fear of judgment, there might be fear, that just like any kind of hero is going to take this experience. And then you think about the people who are having a good experience, maybe now they're taken out of theirs, because they're worried about the person, like so, in order to kind of help with that, what we're creating is cohorts. So they're together for six weeks, the first week, there's no medicine involved, we are just getting together, we are framing the experience for them. They're getting to know each other. And then every week, we have a different topic, where we all get to talk about, you know, how do you relate to your mind? How do you relate to your body? How do you relate to your spirit, and so on and so forth over a six week period. And what we hope to see is that the container of a group is healing in and of itself, like we heal in community. And we've had over two years of kind of like, a very fragmented sense of community. And for some people, they're struggling to reconnect, they're not like, it's like a muscle memory that the muscle is atrophied. And so one of our goals, even to the way that we talk to the people that come through our doors, they're not patients, they're members, or members of our community, because we don't want to call them a patient and remind them of anything that they feel they feel they're sick, they need to be healing and all of that. And we like we're certain that the group container is going to help them foster relationships with people who have had similar experiences. Because at the end of the day, there was a one quote that I blanking on, exactly, but it was like, loneliness isn't having nobody around is having nobody to share your experience with. Hmm. So when you do what Jared said, Sure, yeah, you you know, if you go back to your regular world, your parents don't know about this, your significant others, like at some woowoo stuff, you you kind of it just becomes this thing that happened. When you're in a community of people who experienced it together, you can continue to grow and learn from each other as you move forward. And that's, I think, going to be the real benefit for people. Because at the end of the day, whether it's addiction, depression, anxiety, at some core level, there's a sense of disconnection. And so connection is, I think, what we need more than anything, it's why the doctor that listens to you, seems to cure you better.

Amy: 38:08

So true. That just made me think of something. Is this being explored, and it's probably, I don't know, like, the opposite or controversial or something. But for people who go to rehab, because they're going to rehab to like get off drugs or alcohol, but I'm just wondering, because what you're saying sounds like it would be really healing for someone that has addiction, but if they have addiction, is it like a counter to?

Julia Mirer M.D: 38:31

So the ketamine has been used in research for alcohol use disorder, and it was very effective, there was a lot of therapy involved, and then they're able to kind of apply all of that therapy after this dose. So it actually, it's a really, really good question, because that happens a lot with AAA it's like, or Na Na, that 100% abstinence is the goal. And when you look at it that way, and you look at you know what happens to people, okay? They're abstinent from drugs, but they are addicted to caffeine, they're addicted to cigarettes, they're addicted to sugar. So the addiction is still there. And it's a craving. And so changing your relationship to the substance, I think is the most profound. Like, that would be the result that I would hope for people think opioid is a little bit different, because opioids kind of just grab you and hold on to you. Yeah. But I've seen anecdotally so many people say, you know, I used to be an alcoholic and now I can have a glass of wine with my dinner and that's it.

Amy: 39:41

Interesting. So it really works on the the actual addiction to whatever substance versus something that you have to keep going back to because it makes you feel a certain way like it actually can not cure but like change your mindset around it, which is really fascinating, actually. Well,

Julia Mirer M.D: 39:58

and if you and it's like The intentional use,

Katie: 40:01

yeah, if you look at it as well, there's I mean, it's it's essentially just a medication that you're applying to the addiction. It's not necessarily like saying here, here's another drug to get addicted to, which is in regards to opioids that can be given naltrexone to help get rid of that dependency and everything. So I can see the similarities there. Before we get into, I would like you to walk us through a quick kind of outline of what a patient's experience would be. I know, you just touched on it a little bit, but like, I want our listener to hear what it's like to come in, sit down and go through the process. So who's in the office with them? How are you giving it to them, you can, I mean, choose any way of administrating any type. We should start by saying New shaman is a clinic in New York City, where Julia is the director of strategies. And it is where ketamine therapy is being done. So I would love to hear what what that looks like if someone comes in and they're, and they're getting started.

Julia Mirer M.D: 41:00

Okay, so a lot of times we get these inquiries online, and so they initially they get a phone call, so we make sure that there's nothing that disqualifies them from receiving ketamine. And so when, when they kind of are able to go through based on the initial screening, then they get an appointment with our medical director, who is this incredible, he was an internal medicine doctor who shifted completely into this work, because this was aligned with his not only his career, but his spirit. And so he does the medical evaluation. And we make sure that people are clear, you know, we check their medical history, there are medications, like basic testing, and if they are clear to go, then we schedule their appointment. And one of the coolest things about new Shama is that it looks nothing like a like a clinic. So you walk in, and there's these elaborate, like, elaborate artwork throughout as a wallpaper, there's plants, there's like, you know, the ambient music, and it just doesn't feel like the typical sterile environment. And when they get in, you know, we have 17 rooms. So when they come in, they, they're greeted, they are prepared, you know, they do whatever paperwork they need, and then they're brought into the room in the room, there's either a sofa, but most people are preferring the gravity chairs. So they get a little bit of kind of introduction to the space, the doctor comes in the same one that that their evaluation comes in, and they discuss, you know, final intention setting. They talked to them about, you know, they do some breathing techniques with them, and they start the IV, they start the dose. And then while we check on the patients, this is, as I mentioned earlier, a psychedelic dose. So we checked them for safety, but they're not, we were not talking to them, there is no therapist that's in there speaking to them, we make sure that they are, you know, they have their blindfold, they have their headphones, and that they are comfortable. And then when the session is over, it's about 60 to 90 minutes. And they we have one of our facilitators come in and so the facilitators are people who work with people in you know, the, in the preparation and then the integration, and they're there just to get some key takeaways to sit with the patient, bring them back into their body, you know, ketamine is a dissociative, so anything we can do to kind of welcome you back in this was really helpful so the last thing we want is for people to like you know, think that you know, that experience was really the benefit the benefit is feeling different once you're back in here you know, we don't want them stuck in the caregivers are seeking that kind of experience. So afterwards different people are different so some people need a little longer to recover you know, we're we're early so we actually are able to let patient's kind of ease into it and you know, it's not like we're trying to get them out for the next person to come in. Like we're able to really let them come back and then we offer them their snacks you know, we have to we have whatever their their preferences are, or some healthy snacks and then they get a follow up will they go home, we usually recommend that you that they either have somebody to pick them up, or just try to avoid the busy city life afterwards. It might be a little bit jarring once you kind of went into this expansive state. And then the following day we call and we check on your we find out how you're doing. We listen for any kind of sign that maybe you need some further support. We have a psychiatric nurse practitioner who is available For that follow up care as well. And if they have their own therapists, you know, we may recommend that they scheduled appointment. And we oftentimes recommend that they do that in preparation just ahead of time. So they have that the experience itself, we use higher doses. So there are some clinics that use these lower doses and it feels nice, we use doses that they are just like you are in the cosmos, people report feeling like they're floating that their body is not there, that they are, for the first time separate from that, from their thoughts. They're observing themselves almost like from a third person view. And if you think about people with chronic pain, like imagine the relief it is to not feel your body for a little bit. And that can be really healing for mental health as well, where it's like, for a minute, you just snapped out of the rumination that has defined your existence for however many years. And so what the way that our medical director talks about it, he says that it is a that ketamine strips away everything that isn't you so you get to kind of connect with that core essence of who you are. And remember that that is always there. Remember that that is always that that's who you always have been. And then everything that has caused you distress are things that you've learned, that are no longer serving, like, these are things that are these are learned behaviors that you don't have to choose to keep engaging in. So, you know, there we have, we have testimonials from patients that were we just recently recorded. And, you know, those are worth checking out as well, like a chair that,

Amy: 46:52

that's so interesting, I didn't realize that was the experience, I thought in my head, I don't know why I thought this, I just thought you go in, you get it. And then it's like a all day thing where you like, talk to a therapist and like figure out your trauma. So it's almost like your, your, your, your evaluating yourself, I mean, or do people after they get this treatment, then go to their therapist and like talk through things, it just seems to me like there there there should or could be a talk part of it, where you're like, processing and reflecting and processing.

Julia Mirer M.D: 47:26

Absolutely. So the period of time. You know, sometimes when you first come back, and even that next day, you might still be a little bit off. And then some people say like, oh, but the day after I was like, you know, really, really on top of it. So because sometimes it could just be taxing on the body or the mind even so, and I I completely agree with you that there's that 36 to 48 hour window afterwards, where it's really valuable to get into those therapy sessions to like review the things that came up for you. And we do talk, you know, the key takeaways immediately afterwards for people to kind of start thinking about, you know, what did these things mean? Because it could be a very interesting experience. But like, what does that mean to be here? Right. And for our group sessions, that's actually part of it. So on, it's a four hour dose day. So the first hours, we're talking about all the, you know, the questions that we have from the week prior, you know, how do you connect to your body. And then we have that to our dos session with the group. And then there's an hour afterwards where we sit around and we share your share what came up for you? Listen, you know, some people get so much healing out of listening to other people's experiences, and other people's interpretations. And then you have an entire group of people that can say, oh, maybe this means X, Y, and Z when you share yours. So yeah, we definitely do that. In the group, when we're doing in the group. That's That's what our plan is,

Katie: 48:55

and why you said blindfold and headphones during the hour or two. What's the reason for that? And are they listening to music, I suppose.

Julia Mirer M.D: 49:05

Yeah, so we have playlists that have been curated, that that we share with them with our members. And music has such a huge role in the psychedelic experience it can really like because the visuals that you get can shift with the music. And this is something that we hear from people with the psilocybin study. The music doesn't it's not like a DJ set, where it just flows into the next song. There's stark differences in songs. And in the psilocybin study in particular, the purpose of that is to snap you from one reality to or you know, change the visuals they have and see how it can evoke different things. There is a company called wave paths, which is it's run by a guy who was founded by a guy who like leading expert in music and psychedelics, and and this application is able to it's the music is put together in such a way so that you're able to elicit a certain feeling. And depending on what dose you're using, what route of administration and what goal you have with the feelings like you can really play around with the different sets. The blindfolds are to kind of, you know, you can open your eyes, you could see things but when you close your eyes, you get a much more internal and like immersive experience makes sense. And it helps like, you know, the blindfolds on, you're you're able to keep your eyes closed more easily. Yeah,

Katie: 50:36

sure. No, that makes sense. looking inward. I suppose I

Amy: 50:38

note on a personal note, I wonder if this would help me with claustrophobia, or fear of heights.

Julia Mirer M.D: 50:45

Interest I like just got this visual of like your visions being you and like crazy heights.

Amy: 50:51

Yeah, probably. It's funny. This is like, totally not related. But it's funny. My son has this like VR thing that he plays all the time. And there's this one game, it's called Walk the plank. And for I mean, for anyone, it's scary. But for someone who's like afraid of heights, it's crazy. And you put this thing on, you're in an alternate universe, you go up an elevator, and then you cross a little plank to another building. No one can do it, we do it on everyone that comes to our house. It's like a joke just to see. So many people are scared across this plank. And it's just virtual reality. But it's so real. And that's like, the only thing I could probably compare this experience to I'm sure it's nothing like it. But it's like wild how like your mind can just be stuck in certain ways. So one of the things I was going to ask you as I'm listening to this, and it sounds like it can be an incredible therapy for people that really need it. You're doing a lot of lobbying for psychedelic therapy. And I want to hear about that, because I imagine I don't know how expensive it is. But it seems like it might be expensive, not attainable for the average person insurance clearly probably doesn't cover it. So like, What's your thoughts on all of that?

Julia Mirer M.D: 52:02

Yeah, so one of the biggest hurdles, like I was saying is access. And currently These are expensive treatments. And I think one of the one of the things that happened with ketamine research is that a lot of the ketamine research didn't really involve a lot of therapy. So when it was, it's a lot harder to talk to insurance companies about it. So one thing is, we're trying to get more research that shows the therapy with the ketamine is effective and in you know, more effective, or just to get the information out there. So we have legs to stand on when we talk to these insurance companies. The other thing is, ketamine is since it is used for pain, and pain oftentimes shares a co diagnosis with mental health because if you've had pain for long enough, you're probably going to feel a little depressed about it, or anxious that it's going to get worse all these things. So there are opportunities to get it partially or covered by insurance when there's a diagnosis of pain. There's also a company called Anthea, which is one of the companies that is looking to serve as like a third party insurance for corporations to be able to give their employees to cover their employees ketamine assisted therapy. So there's what there's like people working on this from a research standpoint, so they know we would get this, ideally get this grant for research. But if we don't start creating research that includes therapy in it's like, the MDMA is, like 60 hours of therapy over you know, full therapy hours, because you have two therapists. So there's a lot of therapy that's involved. So that's going to be how it has to be rolled out. And I'm hoping to see the same thing for psilocybin for LSD for five me like all the medications for the other thing is, you know, when we talk about the home model, if you are a company that is truly screening and preparing your patients, this can be a good option. So there's room for everyone. You know, some people want to do group I am some people want to do, I can't afford IV in person, but the home model does offer a less expensive option, but slightly more risk for people who maybe are worried about their addictive tendencies, like you know, like the personalities or people who are already feeling lonely and don't really have a lot of support. Maybe a dissociative might make that a little bit, you know, more uncomfortable. So, I think that group therapy is going to end up being the most effective and cheaper, like the most affordable and effective in the like next couple of years before we start getting broad coverage. And you know, the other thing is There is this conversation, you know about the only people who can afford this, you know, and there's like, you know, some some debate about, you know, is that fair? And no, you know, access to medicine, effective medicine, being limited is not fair. But I think it's also important to recognize that we all suffer the same, we may have different contexts, but the same way that somebody can feel lonely and isolated, because, you know, their lower end of the fight like, you know, lower wealth. And people who are very wealthy can also feel a sense of disconnection, they can also suffer from, you know, sense of loss, people also lose people. So like, I think it's important to also remember that the fact that this is available at all, is really important, because the more people that can start to find healing, the more people start to exhibit pro social behavior, and the more people will be, you know, hopefully inclined to figure out how to get this to the world. Yeah, so you know, it's, it's really and for clinics, it's really frustrating that we can't make this cheaper, like, extremely frustrated, like, when I came into this, I was like, Oh, we're gonna let you could totally do this. And then you realize, like, oh, the logistics are actually really more difficult. And even the best of the best with most ethical practices are charging, you know, $5,000, because that's how, like, they're not going to be able to stay around to get it to insurance coverage, if they're trying to kind of, I mean, two things, that it's gonna be tough to stay afloat if you're not charging enough. And then also, you don't want to start taking away services in order to charge less, right? You want this to be effective and as effective as possible, and

Amy: 56:55

you need to be handheld through the experience. I mean, it's not like you can just Yeah, right. So yeah, and to your point, I mean, the more education, the more research, the more mainstream it will get, hopefully, more insurance companies will be open to it, and it will become more accessible for people because it just sounds like such a incredible therapy for people that really, really need it. So thank you for educating us today. This has been so just fascinating. Really.

Julia Mirer M.D: 57:23

Thank you for having me on. Yeah.

Katie: 57:25

Well, before we wrap up, we have a couple of things. First of all, if our listeners wanted to find you or reach out to you or you know, read what you're doing with the lobbying and everything get involved, how can they find you?

Julia Mirer M.D: 57:38

So they can find me on LinkedIn, I usually post over there. And then information about new shamans. It's new schema.com Okay, great.

Katie: 57:49

All right. So last thing, just like some fun little stuff that we like to do, we're going to do our rap session. First question is, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Julia?

Julia Mirer M.D: 58:03

Um, wellness hack, so I, I have this like, love hate relationship with coffee. And so I started doing something a little bit different. So because I would realize that okay, I drink coffee in the morning. And then like, around noon, I'm like, like, I think I'm hungry. But I'm like, oh, I need more coffee. And or I have a crush. And so what I started doing is in the mornings, I do my smoothie before I have my coffee. And I if I end up even needing my coffee, I don't have that crash afterwards. And for me, I think that that from like a wellness standpoint, I feel like that was a really fun hack for me to learn in the last few months. That's yeah,

Katie: 58:44

that's a good one as I'm like, generate from my second cup of coffee over here.

Amy: 58:51

And what kind of smoothie is it? Yeah,

Katie: 58:53

what is your smoothie that you so Oh, yummy.

Julia Mirer M.D: 58:55

Um, I throw in everything. So I put in like I have the different from Whole Foods. I have the chaga the Reishi Lion's Mane, their collagen and their protein powder, the vanilla one that tastes like cereal milk, so everything else tastes better because I throw in like, I'll throw in celery ginger, like dill, sometimes cilantro. Interesting. Or I'll do like beets and carrots. And so I throw whatever stuff in there because I'm like, I'm just gonna give myself the nutrients I need. So like a drink the coffee.

Katie: 59:24

Yeah, smart.

Amy: 59:25

I love it. Okay, so the next one we call our five minute flow. And this is just a fun one where you get out of the shower, you're dried off and you're drying off and Uber just alerted you. They're five minutes away. You know, what's your quick beauty routine? What do you put on? What are your go twos to get out of the house on time and I'm sure you're such a busy person and doctor that like you don't have time to do anything. So it'd be good to hear what you're what you're putting on.

Julia Mirer M.D: 59:49

Um, so I'm a recovering physician. So there's very little in clinical like settings that I work on. And so for me, I pretty much like drawn my eyebrow Throw on a sports bra and leggings.

Amy: 1:00:03

Sounds good. Yeah.

Katie: 1:00:05

All right. And last one, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Julia Mirer M.D: 1:00:12

So, morning meditation sets me up in the mornings. And then outdoors being outdoors, if I like on the days that it's just a little bit rainy here in Florida, like what? How do people what do I do? So minor Ron is definitely like, we always think about, oh, I don't have time to do this, I don't have time to do like the meditation. But for the most part, we all have five minutes. And I try to do it for as long as I can choose like 10 to 15. Without any alarms without anything, just and then throwing myself into this parasympathetic state in the morning, really allows me to stay more in that place. And I recognize when I don't do it for a while it starts my morning starts to get thrown off my coffee affects me differently. So yeah, that's been like an incredible practice that I've been able to maintain for a couple of years now.

Katie: 1:01:08

Nice. Awesome. Yeah, I feel you're on. Alright. Well, Julia, thank you so much for giving us so much of your time. And this has been incredibly interesting. Our listeners, I think, are just really going to like want to sink their teeth into this episode and learn all about it. And hopefully, the lobbying keeps going the way we need it to go. And this all really comes into fruition Marceau. So thank you. Thank you, Katie. And Amy,

Amy: 1:01:31

we always end the show with a mantra to just set our listeners up for the day or just something to think about and my found one that I think is really relevant for this discussion we just had, and it delete the old version of me in your head, it expired new roles.

Julia Mirer M.D: 1:01:46

Like I just got goosebumps. Yeah.

Amy: 1:01:49

That's a good one. So yes, thank you again for being on the show. And we look forward to staying in touch and following all of your updates. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness, so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 49 - Product Junkies - April Edition (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 49 Product Junkies - April Edition.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:29

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. So Amy and Katie here and we have a special episode we are starting to introduce something called our hashtag product junkie sessions. And this is the first one this was based on a lot of feedback from you all saying that you love to hear other product reviews at the end and the different things we talked about there. And so we're doing a bit of a we're gonna do a quick quick flash round of a bunch of products that Katie and I have been loving lately. If this is something that you like, we'll continue to do it monthly. Katie and I are always trying out different products. I want to make sure that we're bringing you kind of like the goods and the bads of all the things starting with a quick round I'm going to I'm going to send it to Katie to give us her first product reco of this episode.

Katie: 1:15

All right, this is great. I'm super excited because I have some products that I'm like obsessed with the first one here the first one all right, I was looking at pictures of myself from years ago and I was thinking why does my skin look like that? It was really like really clear my pores are really small gonna have a pore on my face and I was I just couldn't understand what had changed. And then I remembered I had this product that I was obsessed with back then and for whatever reason it just fell out of rotation and I totally forgot about it. So here she is again, or the company rather good old Sunday Riley I don't know how many times I've talked about them I'm upside I do love Sunday Riley Yeah, love it's there Martian mattifying melting water gel toner and interesting gives your skin this really nice matte look. And it also really legitimately minimizes your pores so your face just looks I know it's like the smoothest and my skins ever looked and I don't know why I stopped using it I have no clue maybe I like couldn't find it one day and I was too lazy to order it online and then forgot about it. But as soon as within probably a week of using it it my skin game was

Amy: 2:30

back on like it okay so it's Sunday Riley and what's it called Martian

Katie: 2:34

Martian mattifying melting water gel toner.

Amy: 2:39

And is it in the morning or at night

Katie: 2:41

I use it in the morning I use it during the day for like how I want my skin to look during the day and it says it's for oily to blemish prone skin which lately mine really has been in this is helping instantly transforms from a cooling gel to a water toner as a clarifies removes oil and tightens the appearance of pores for clearer cleaner skin. And let me tell you, it delivers. It really does.

Amy: 3:05

I need to try it. I'm

Katie: 3:06

as much as that it's $25 and they have it that's it. Yeah,

Amy: 3:11

that's very reasonable for Sunday. Riley it is.

Katie: 3:14

But also I should note this is for 1.7 ounces. It's a pretty small thing. But if you're only using a little like dime size once a day dime size does that it's all you need. Okay, and yeah, and they have other things in this like Martian family that I haven't tried yet. But yeah, um, I like this will never go out of rotation again in my life.

Amy: 3:39

That sounds great. It's funny, my friend Erica. I was talking to her about products the other day and she said she got a product similar to that by Clinique that minimizes pores I don't know if it was a toner or a CRM or something but interesting, I will have to try that. Okay, next product let's give each other and this week take a picture. Take a picture of this one because it's a fun bottle, we'll edit the sound texture spray. So first of all, the packaging is so cute. I love it. It's so colorful. But this is actually like a really good spray if it's like second day or third day or whatever and you just want to like judge up your hair and give it some volume and texture This is great. So my hairstylist Teresa shout out introduced me to this not this brand but this specific spray she had introduced me to another spray years ago from aura bay that I still use, which is good but I actually like this one better. It's just a little bit more texture II so whenever I use it, it adds like volume in it's great. I think I might have used a little bit today but it's it's great. So it's a mica undone volume and matte texture spray $27 You can find it on Amazon probably Sephora, etc, etc. So good little hair hack,

Katie: 4:47

do you so do you use it on like clean just dried hair or do you use it like a couple days later? Like a dry like a dry shampoo?

Amy: 4:58

I think you can do both. I think it works better on dry hair I'm looking at the directions and it says dry finishing spray builds instant fullness and matte texture for perfectly. How do you say this word to us led Taos Walsall. Okay, for perfect not editing

Katie: 5:18

that out.

Amy: 5:21

I can't say the word Telcel high volume hair, use it shake spray in sections all over dry styled hair tarsal is so you I use it like you could use it after you blow out your hair. I've done that too. Like I've blown out my hair and then just use it to like judge it up. And then I'll use it like day to day three, whatever. So you could use it anytime. But you do use it on dry hair. Yeah, I mean, it's almost like a dry shampoo or conditioner but more of a texturizer

Katie: 5:46

right. So when I wash my hair, I let it air dry and then it doesn't get that good texture for like a day or two. So that would be a way to do that. Because I had never washed my hair the same day. I have an event for that reason. I need something like that. Yeah,

Amy: 6:00

I always do second day hair too. I find it always looks better the second day, but this definitely helps with that. It just like pulls that texture out. Yeah. Okay, what do we got next?

Katie: 6:07

All right, well, speaking of hey, this. So lately I've been getting a lot of compliments on my hair, you wouldn't be able to tell right now my roots are so grown out. But this actually fixes that problem. I like I just said I washed my hair and then I have super thick hair as Do you. So really I wash it like once or twice a week max otherwise it gets dried out. So the way that I keep it going and fresh is with dry shampoo. And I've tried a billion different brands. And this is my new fav This is a super cheap drugstore. Find. It's Batista. I use their Oh yeah, they're brilliant blonde. Which is great, because when my dark roots come in, it actually like hides my roots. So the great thing about it is that obviously I can stretch the washes and but it also it also gives me volume. And like covers up the roots and makes it really fresh and great. Yeah, I mean, I'll show you right now.

Amy: 7:03

Wait, is it sorry, did you say it was a dry shampoo?

Katie: 7:05

It's the Batista dry shampoo blonde blends smells like our color tracks. Yeah, look, watch.

Amy: 7:12

Okay, cool. Demonstrating

Katie: 7:16

look like I mean, I mean, like blended a bit, but no more. Wow. Isn't that wild?

Amy: 7:22

That's so cool. I need to get that ASAP. Yeah,

Katie: 7:25

I'm obsessed. And they have got like CVS, yes, CVS, you can get it literally at any drugstore. I feel like it's I mean, and let me see. It's $10 and then they How

Amy: 7:36

does it How does it wear? Like if you put it in your hair today? Like is it still in tomorrow? Is it like get weird and gross are

Katie: 7:43

wears really well. I'll put it in sometimes, like a couple times a day, I have to do it. And the only thing that I do notice is that when I do go to wash my hair, I really need to do like a double rents to clear up any just like product residue, you know, right? If it gets a little sticky or something. Yeah, but like, because it's dry shampoo. It keeps your hair going for a long time. Like I mean, I can get away with one wash a week with it. And then totally it's

Amy: 8:12

it frustrates me it's like playing double duty. It's like doing your roots plus it's a dry shampoo. And I don't I don't use dry shampoos that much because my hair like I could wash it once a week and it never gets oily but I do use a dry conditioner which I've mentioned before from dry bar which is really good. But I want to try that because I My roots are I feel like the older I get the more and more my I need to get my roots or like my highlights done more often. So that's a great one.

Katie: 8:36

Yeah. And they have like they have it in brown. They have it in different colors they have they also have dry conditioners, which I'd never heard of until I was on their site earlier. So I need to look into a dry conditioner, especially for metal anything could be really good for her. So yeah, there you go. Yeah,

Amy: 8:52

I love a dry conditioner. It's not it's just as a different feel than a dry shampoo. It's not as like thick. It's just a little bit more smoothing. Okay, so speaking of hair than and getting out all of the dry shampoo that makes your roots blonde. I have another products. This is a hair scalp massager. I've seen this. So I actually got this shout out to Taylor rose aka healthy who got who we had on our show because she's doing a lot of content lately about hair and using Rosemary which I started so I'll report back to to get the results on that. But on her site, she had a link out to this specific hair scalp massager I got on Amazon, it was $6.98 and it's great. I've never used something like this before. First of all, it's nice and big. So when you put it in your hand it has like a good feel and then you literally just like massage your hair with it. First of all, I love the massage part. It feels so good, so much better than just like washing your hair and like scrubbing with your fingers. And I do feel like it does a better job at cleaning my hair because I usually just do it so quickly and Ramona veers fingers through it, but this really like gets in there and I think it like stimulate your hair follicles. It's really good. So I just put shampoo on this now and then I wash my hair with it and use the conditioner with it too. It feels really good. It's a little little little Nirvana in your shower. So what's it called this product? It's called I'm sorry if I didn't mention it. It's called just the hair scalp hair scalp massage shampoo brush, by Mack soft scalp care brush. So we'll we'll provide all the links of all these products so you all can check it out. But great one

Katie: 10:28

nice. Okay, hair. All right, well, I'm going to pivot to skin back to where we started. Alright, Trader Joe's find supergene love it. It's always there. Their dermatologists formulated hydrating Hyaluronic body gel cream. Oh this is my new like everyday go to body lotion. And it's really it's really nice like it's definitely moisturizing and it leaves kind of a nice I don't know just like a cooling effect on your skin. It's not super heavy you know solutions you put on there like really thick and it feels like you got to rub them in and rubber man and rubber men right

Amy: 11:09

and then like you have to wait to put your clothes on because they get sticky exactly that

Katie: 11:13

this is not that it's nice and light and and it really is very hydrating. I mean it's like still winter where I live which is shocking. And my skin is really never dry because I'm using this so it's from Trader Joe's and it's only 699

Amy: 11:30

I love Trader Joe's so on we've been finding so many Trader Joe's products frankly like we I think we talked about the the eye cream and the rose spray. Yeah, they just randomly have like good products. Is that product thick or thin?

Katie: 11:41

It's kind of it's funny, it's like in between it's kind of hard to explain. Yeah, because it's a gel cream. A gel cream like that's fine like the little cooling Yeah, like it's I mean you can see it's on my finger right now. And it's looks like it's thin and I guess it kind of is but it's like it was clear. It's as hydrating as a healthy a heavy one would be Yeah, I love it.

Amy: 12:06

I definitely want to try that. Okay, so speaking of body lotions and oils I've been using this one for a while and I haven't talked about on the show. It's the OSA undara Algae body oil nice. Have you seen this I love this body oil. It feels so good on this skin. It's $48 you can get it at Credo Ulta Sephora etc but let me talk about the the oil so my skin is really dry so I do use moisturizer but sometimes I like to use maybe a couple times a week in oil just because I feel like it's more hydrating and my skin doesn't get as dry when I use an oil but a lot of times I like what will what I do with this is because sometimes I don't like to put the thick oil on my skin it just feels like too sticky. So what I do is I put a pump of this and a pump of moisturizer and mix it together and then it's like a smart combination of like cream and oil and it my skin feels so good when I use it it feels so like just plump and moisturize and I love it so I've been using it for a while as you can see it's helpful and it's a really really good one a little goes a long way so it is $48 But it does last a long time. I also have another one that I don't have in front of me and I can talk about it on the next episode. There's another bottle oil that I have from skin and senses which I think is a little bit less expensive and I also really liked that one so I can talk about that one but anyway really good finds. Again it's the Osia Undaria Ondara algae oil

Katie: 13:33

and what lotion do you mix it with?

Amy: 13:36

It's funny I don't have I don't have it to show you but I can send a link to it. And it's I found this suave lotion which is super cheap because I used to use you remember the and you have a to the bliss butter and Shea cream like that thick moisturizing cream I like love that lotion I used to buy it all the time. But I was like sick of buying it you can't like find it in the stores to buy it online. It's it's they would sell it in these big jars is really expensive. So the suave stuff that I found is almost it's not a dupe for it, but it has similar it has a similar smell. It has shea butter and has coconut and it's paraben free you know all natural it's like from the suave naturals collection so I really like it and the consistency is perfect for me. So that's what I've been using lately and I mix it with the oil so I'll put a link up for

Katie: 14:24

that tonight. So do you know what say I feel like our listeners have heard sky bark so many times that we need to give them some sky can assume your office. Take a picture she is let's get her in there

Amy: 14:34

crazy woman topic she has to she's so bad cashmere. She just got something in our mouth Put on Skype probably wants to go outside. Oh here she is.

Katie: 14:50

I cannot believe she's like quadrupled in size since I saw a huge

Amy: 14:54

Yeah, look at her. She's a big girl.

Katie: 14:55

Oh, she's so cute.

Amy: 14:57

She's like 26 pounds now.

Katie: 14:58

Oh my gosh.

Amy: 15:00

Okay, all right, I max on the skin route.

Katie: 15:03

I'm done on square one, actually. But I have. So I have a product that I promised I would review a long time ago I story about it. Actually, I posted about it, it's volume. It was their, their health intelligence test that I did, that you they send you a kit. And they take a stool sample and not the funnest, and then a blood sample. And then you send it back. And they have all of this amazing technology that tells you exactly what pre and probiotics your system is missing and needs, and what vitamins and minerals and antigens your body needs. And then they customize and send you probiotics and vitamins. So it's not cheap. I mean, when you when you think about what it actually is, I think it's a very good price. It's 199 to do the testing, and then the supplements and everything that come back, I think the first go around, they give it to you for like $70. But it's a lot. It's like, for example, this one package. I'm supposed to take this whole thing in a day it has eight in it, there's no way I could take eight vitamins, like one in here does the job. I feel it working.

Amy: 16:24

What what vitamins. So when you do the stool sample and the blood sample, what does it tell you about your store? Because I know we talked about that on the period guru episode and I was like, oh, I should do I should do that testing to see like what I'm missing or all of that. What is it? Does it tell you anything or just recommend something, it tells

Katie: 16:40

you so much information, it's insane. You download the app, it gives you all of these scores, whether or not your gut microbiome is like a good average optimal or not optimal, your cellular cellular health, your mitochondrial health, immune system, your stress response health, your what's your biological age, mine's 35, thank you. And it's and then it goes deeper, and it tells you foods that you should be eating and foods that you shouldn't be eating. And then in regards to like the stool test, it basically tells you like what your microbiome like what the imbalances are, and it gives you what you need to balance that in the customized probiotic. And then and so

Amy: 17:28

with the probiotic has that been helping you?

Katie: 17:30

It has, you know what the probiotics really heavy and actually, my stomach's been pretty good lately for like the last year I've taken out eggs kind of like was it a huge life changer for me. So for the probiotics, I'm not using them that much because my stomach has been doing very well. And when I do use them, it did feel a little bit heavy. But the disclaimer is they say you have to give your system kind of some time to adjust to them, which I think is fair. The vitamins, like for example, in my vitamin is 300 milligrams of curcumin, 35 milligrams of B 649 milligrams of a Kobo manera extract 201 milligrams of vitamin C and it goes on and on. And apparently this is like the exact dosage of what my body needs. While meanwhile, they're pretty strong. And I'm also just you know, I'm hypersensitive to stuff I put in my body. So that whole like trying to do aid, no shot, so I paid Yeah, like $75 for all of these. And I'm taking one pill from this pack a day. And there's 30 of these pills 30 of these patterns. So it goes it's gonna go a long way.

Amy: 18:34

How did you find out about this company? Like, what's the

Katie: 18:38

it was in that's kind of embarrassing, but it was really good Instagram advertising. But it was targeted me properly. But I went in and I did loads and loads of research and qualified them and read all the reviews and everything and the science and it's like it's backed. I mean, there's there's a lot of like peer review studies that are backing all of it. So it's legit. Okay, that's good. Great. Yeah.

Amy: 19:00

Okay, so speaking of. I have a the a bunch of skin stuff. But since we're in the supplement vitamin space, I'll talk about this brand, which is my new favorite semiotica Oh, yeah. So I have mentioned this brand before. And I've heard the founder interviewed several times on, I think it was the skinny confidential podcast and he goes super deep into the science and all of the backing and so totally legitimate. And these two supplements, one of them is the symbiotic aka b 12, and B six cellular energy. And the other one is the D three plus k two plus CO Q immunity and heart health. And these two I picked because I take B and D Anyway every day, but this is according to the founder and this company which I heard the whole explanation. The way that this is administered is lipids. somo which means through the mouth, so it's a pump, and you just put it in your mouth and it tastes yummy. You just do like 12 drops a day of each. And so that, I guess is a better way to take these types of vitamins. The other thing about this and I'm gonna butcher this as I don't really know how to describe it, but this b 12, mix with a B six, it's a better way to administer the B like it, I don't know, there's some rationale. They help each other i But if you absorb, they help each other. And that is the same thing with the d3. So I was just taking d3, but this has the k two and the CO Q and I think co Q is what you just I forgot what the it stands for like CO

Katie: 20:42

it might be co cretin. CO Q is maybe yeah, so Oh, no, I'm sorry. Coenzyme Q 10. So yeah, so this

Amy: 20:51

one with d3 has k two plus CO q 10. And the K two is a vitamin, which I don't know much about, I just like listen to the guy. And it's, you know, made sense to me. So, and essentially it says Like if you, you know, take these together the d3 Ketu and CO q 10. With the B 12. They help each other. So the d3 supports immune health support strong bones by assisting in the regulation of calcium and supports cardiovascular health by reducing arterial plaque. So that's the D three and then the B 12. So the B 12. It's the beach of plus B six can help with boosting energy improving your moods supporting heart health. And again, it says you know to take 12 pumps daily. And these two so when I was listening to the episode, he basically talked about his whole company and all the stuff they had about a few other things I bought like a vitamin C supplement, I bought magnesium supplement a few other things. But these were the two that like he said appeal to most people and that everyone should use so because they asked him on the show. Like if you had to pick two or three, what would you pick and it was like these jewels, something else. So anyway, I tried it two months ago, and I really like it, I replaced my I usually take like a gummy vitamin because I don't like to swallow a big pill. So I replaced my gummy vitamins with these. And I can definitely tell a difference with my energy, my mood, everything, I think it's definitely made a difference. In fact, I've ordered it now. I had one I ran out of it, I ordered another and now I just started I subscribed to their like bundle and save. So I get it every month. The only rub with this company is it is not cheap. So the vitamin B 12 is I mean, it's not too bad. But it's like if you do this, Subscribe and Save. It's like $43. And it's you know, not a huge amount. It's it basically a month, a month's worth the d3 is $69. So it is quite expensive. But if you've read and do the research and listen to some of these episodes I listened to I think it's worth it. I've also eliminated all my other vitamins and supplements. I literally use these two and it's like the vitamin C and whatever a few other things, but it's sort of equaled itself out because I'm not buying all of this like gummy vitamins and things. So yeah, I'm really, really into this synbiotic A company I think their stuff is it's super clean the way he describes all the way that they get their minerals. It's super legit, and I love it. So that is my supplementation product reco lately,

Katie: 23:16

I think you know, investing your money into a quality supplement product that you know the source and you know, what's in it is really important because supplements and vitamins are they don't go through like FDA approval. So you can buy a supplement and it can just be complete garbage. So I don't the price doesn't scare me so much. And the really cool thing about the fact that it's a spray that I heard you say it like was so long, I don't know if that's like a cell wall. Yeah, so part of that is the perk behind that is because they can they can give it to you with less filler with less junk, it's more of a straight shot and then just the way that your body absorbs it is faster, it's more readily available in your system. So I think

Amy: 24:02

I can I can definitely tell a difference and these are both I know the vitamin B says it's keto and vegan. I think the other one is too nice. So really, really quality quality product. Yeah,

Katie: 24:13

I love that. Well I just have one last super quick one that is just kind of like a fun little bit. It's my new favorite candle. It's the it's the root brand I find it here at Fresh Market. I don't know I mean they have their own website root candles.com part of their aromatherapy seeking balance like capsule collection and you can get a you know, an eight ounce candle for $23 It's a little steep but it lasts a really long time. It's a scent of eucalyptus now

Amy: 24:42

I think that's a good price for our candle. Yeah, those

Katie: 24:44

are right, like I pay $65 for my favorite Diptyque candle. But the cool thing about this is that it increases overall brain activity and relieves congestion. And I swear when I like this sucker during the day when I'm working, I don't know what it does, but it stimulates something like it helps me With my flow the scent in the air I really like I kind of spares if I can't light it when I'm working so anyway it's just a fun one it's a good thing to have in your house

Amy: 25:08

yeah that's a good one and I think that's a reminder any like I have so many candles and I never like think to put them on I just like we put them on sometimes at night for having dinner but like it is a good thing to do while you're working put you in the zone. Yeah, for sure to in a good flow. So I have a few products and we're gonna go through them really quickly because we all gotta go. So first one I'll recommend is this Glow Recipe watermelon glow, nice cinnamon dewdrops, obsessed, obsessed, obsessed. I've seen this like all over it's something I've wanted to try. It's like a serum you put on that basically, it's it can serve as a primer or just a serum. But as soon as you put it on, it's like your skin is glowing. And I love that glowy dewy look. So highly recommend $34 Sephora, you know glow recipe.com another one and this is like an amazing dude. So everybody, listen to this one. We all talk about the SkinCeuticals vitamin C and folic acid. This is a dupe of it. It's called the Dr. Brenner C serum vitamin C for like I think is around like 160 $170 this Dr. Brenner C serum is $20. Wow, got on Amazon. And I found it through, I had posted about a site which we'll put the name in the show notes because I can't recall the site right now. But there's a website that you can put in certain products and it takes the ingredients and it matches it with other products that are very similar. So this was a match by like 99%. And I've been using it and I don't see a difference. I actually almost like it better. It's it's a really, really nice quality product. So highly recommend this for do for this SkinCeuticals vitamin C E for reliq. And two other things quickly. So this I got from our friend, Shelley, a beauty Shaman. So this is one of her tools. She posts about it a lot, but it's called the this is called the obsidian rock roller. And I am obsessed. I use it all the time. So I just brought this out skiing with us with all the altitude I was so puffy. And I use this every day. I used it on my kids, they loved it. I mean, it's on my neck though. It's basically like it's kind of like a guasha and like a cupping. I'm feeling all at once and I just feel like it's like a lazy guasha. So for me, I just sit here and I use it all over my face and it's so like it kind of sucks in your face and it definitely works for swelling and just like to get kind of like stuff out of your skin. I use it on my neck first like Shelly always says and then I also use it on my shoulders when they're sore to like massage my shoulder. So I was just using it on my kids the other day on their shoulders in the back of their neck. It's such a good one. So I've been using this a ton of time. It's the obsidian rock roller on beauty shamans website. It's $98 Such a great beauty tool. I love it. And the last thing I will say is I've been using for a while now this L'Oreal True Match nude Hyaluronic tinted serum. Okay, so this is a serum but it's tinted. The only thing is is doesn't have SPF like the there's a another one that I have to that's not to say but the other brand that I always mix Ilya, Ilya, I always get those two brands confused and that one has SPF and is good, but I actually like this one better because it's a thinner formula. So this is by L'Oreal. And again, it's just like a serum. And so you put it on your hands like a serum and you just rub it in and it just kind of smooths out your face. I mean, I don't really wear foundation and this is like a good like, I'll wear this at night. Sometimes you could just you could wear it every day. It's super light. It's just kind of like, you know, puts puts together your luck almost like a tinted moisturizer but it's a serum so it's not so thick and you just like put it on and it really makes a big difference. It's

Katie: 28:40

great. It just smooths out so drunk so I lie and write Did you say L'Oreal?

Amy: 28:43

It's a drugstore fine. Yeah, it's, it's $15 Target Amazon, wherever and it's a great one. So it's great one to put on after you've done all your glowing tools and everything else. So that's it. That was our episode. And we hope you enjoyed it. Definitely give us feedback and we'll be sure to do another product junkie section session next month. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 46 - Sound Bath Healing And A Personal Journey With Alopecia (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 46 Sound Bath Healing And A Personal Journey With Alopecia, This Is Susy Scheiffelin, The Copper Vessel.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Susy: 0:34

take a deep inhale through your nose and a fall, exhale through your mouth Take another deep inhale and a fall exhale imagine a beautiful white light washing over your body. Relax, relaxing your face, your shoulders, your arms. Your heart, your belly, your legs, your feet. Each of your 10 toes allow this beautiful white light to fill you and healing energy and a sense of peace Take one more deep inhale, breathing the light into your heart. And as you exhale, Shine the light out into the world then when you're ready gently blink your eyes open and that was

Amy: 2:43

amazing. Thank you for sharing that. We needed it.

Katie: 2:47

Yes.

Amy: 2:48

Oh my gosh. Thank you. That was beautiful. Okay, so it's Amy and Katie. Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family are with the beautiful, amazing Susy Schieffelin of the copper vessel. She is a Los Angeles based sound healer, reiki master Kundalini yoga teacher and inspirational speaker who has led sound baths, viewed or attended by millions of people all over the world. I've been lucky enough to join one of them and it was incredible. And that sound just took me back to Europe where we were a few years ago together which is crazy how time flies. Suzy has brought healing to employees at companies such as Google, Pandora and Nordstrom has played crystal bowls with notable artists including LeAnn Rimes, and the Los Angeles Philharmonic and has been featured in publications such as Wall Street Journal, Vogue, USA Today, and Los Angeles Times. Suzy is known for her light filled presence and ability to guide people towards radiant and empowered lives characterized by self love, serenity, abundance and joy. She's the founder of the sound healers Academy and innovative crystal alchemy, sound healing and spiritual business mentorship training, serves as a self love advocate for brands, has created custom product lines and offers deeply restorative crystal alchemy, sound baths, ceremonies, and healing rituals, both in person and online. We follow Susy at the copper vessel on Instagram, we encourage you to get on her Instagram ASAP because she has so much amazing content and she has one minute sound bath like you just experienced. She has beautiful content and it's just so soothing. So welcome to the show. Susie, thank you so, so much for joining us today. It's so good to see you.

Susy: 4:39

Thank you so much, Amy. It's so wonderful to be here with you. Thank you for such a beautiful introduction. Hello, Katie. It's such a joy to be all together. I'm so excited to chat today.

Amy: 4:49

And I failed to mention that she's 33 weeks pregnant and glowing and looks just so radiant. And you just got married this week, right? Yes. Oh my god. congratulate you so much wonderful things going on.

Susy: 5:03

Thank you so much. It's such an incredible time. So

Amy: 5:07

great. Well, Susy, we start at our show doing something we call our weekly nirvana or nirvana of the week and it's just something this week, big or small that brought us joy brought us a little smile. Just you know, let us kind of be happy for that moment. So I'm gonna send it over to Katie to have her give us her Nirvana the

Katie: 5:26

week. Sure. Thanks, Amy. Well, Susy, thank you for being here. It's such a pleasure to meet you. You are you're radiating your energy is definitely like kicking through to us and I love it. So I don't know I have so many Nirvana's. I don't have to choose from between that soundbite that we Susie just provided for us. That was complete nirvana. And I am on a little weekend romantic getaway with my husband. So we've had a lot of nice moments, the past couple of days. But I think the biggest nirvana for me this week is I finished a transcendental meditation course last week, and I've been starting TM all week. I've been double. I started it two weeks ago, but I'm getting into my daily practice. And it's been really amazing and kind of like altering life altering innocence already, which was surprising. It's been really profound. So I've been having a lot of Nirvana there. Twice a dowel, 20 minutes or more.

Amy: 6:19

Wow, yeah, it's more compliant. Amy, what was very. Um, so I actually went, I haven't gotten a facial in forever. And I needed a little self care yesterday. So I went to get a facial and it was so relaxing. I just, it was kind of like a no frills facial, which I kind of like just like in and out. But it was so relaxing, just to sit there and do nothing for an hour like no kids, no work, no nothing and just lay there and like, clean my face. And I felt so good afterwards. And so just like shiny and radiant and refreshed. So it was definitely one of my Nirvana's this week for sure, along with a sound bath, of course, because that just like totally relaxed me. What about you, Susy? I mean, there's so many I know you are married. But

Susy: 7:04

there's so many Oh, my gosh, I love yours. And I would say I mean, it would be our marriage ceremony this week, which was so beautiful and so special. We are planning a big wedding this summer, and we've had it in quite some time. Um, and when we plan that wedding, I had said to mark my husband, I really want to get married on 222 22. And he said, Well, it's a Tuesday, I don't know if everyone's gonna be able to make it. So we decided to just do a really beautiful, intimate spiritual ceremony. And it was just the two of us and one of our spiritual teachers. And it was absolute Nirvana, it really was we dropped into a beautiful meditation, and we shared promises with each other. And then we went for a walk on the beach at sunset in Malibu, and it was, I mean, so perfect. And the wedding that we're going to have this summer is going to be equally as special, but it's gonna be really big in the Catholic Church, and then in a garden with lots and lots of people. And so it felt like the perfect balance to what we have to look forward to and what we're, you know, really spiritually committing to each other.

Amy: 8:15

As we so amazing. Congratulations, again, that sounds so dreamy, and perfect and beautiful. And I love that it was on to Juju to jail. I mean, that's so special, you'll always have that. That's great. And then it sounds like the summer your wedding will be amazing to how fun you get the best of both worlds.

Susy: 8:32

Yeah, so definitely, definitely a week of nirvana. Amazing.

Amy: 8:37

So awesome. So let's get into some quickfire questions so our listeners can get to know you. So give us a quick intro like to you to what you do, what sound healing is, and all of all of all the things

Susy: 8:52

amazing. So I'm Susy I'm a crystal alchemy sound healer and a Reiki Master and a yoga teacher and who I love sharing sound baths with people online and in person. And the reason why I love to do it is because it had such a huge impact on my own life. About seven years ago, I was in a really tough spot, I was in a very dark place. And sound healing really helped me to reconnect with light and peace. And one of the first meditation practices that I began to connect with actually Katie was TM Transcendental Meditation, which is such an amazing practice. And my mind is so wild that sometimes just having my mantra wasn't enough and when I went to a sound bath, it really opened me up to this new sense of peace. And so as I attended sound baths, and began to really feel the light comes back into my eyes after being in such a place of darkness and anxiety and having panic attacks sometimes every day, my life transformed and so I felt called to learn it and begin sharing it. And from there, I shared it with millions of people all around the world. And now I teach other people how to share it as well. Because I find that you know, as we heal ourselves, so often we feel this deep calling to help bring that healing to others. So it feels really great to be in the space of both sharing and teaching and empowering other teachers and healers to share their unique gifts

Amy: 10:24

to it's so awesome. And the first time I ever experienced it was at one of your sound baths. And it was incredible. I had never really heard about it before. And I did it and it was so transformative. I it just it's such an incredible experience. So for our listeners who may not know what a sound bath is, can you kind of talk about like, how long it is why it's beneficial and sort of like the the flow of it so people can understand and and do one?

Susy: 10:54

Absolutely. So you guys just got to experience a little taste of a sound bath. So you might not be wondering what many people wonder when they hear what a sound bath is for the first time which is, am I going to get wet do I need to take my clothes off and there's almost always no water involved in the sound bath unless you choose to listen to a virtual sound bath in the bathtub, which a lot of people actually do choose to do. But sound baths can be created by a number of different instruments from Crystal bowls to Tibetan singing bowls to gongs to didgeridoo, chimes, and the list goes on. For me. I really love working with crystal alchemy singing bowls, which are bowls, they look almost like bowls or phases. They're very beautiful, and they're made of 99.9% clear quartz crystal. And then the alchemy bowls that I play are colorful because they're infused with the intentions of other crystals and gemstones and precious metals and earth elements. So platinum or rose quartz or and crystal is not just a woowoo thing. I know that crystals have started to become pretty mainstream, but crystals actually, you know, they hold energy and information. They help to conduct that energy. And so when we're working with crystal singing bowls, they're conducting and holding healing intentions and energy. So when I play the bowls, each of them has their own note. And the notes correspond with our chakras, which is our energy centers. So the sounds resonate with our body and they also entrain with our brainwaves, helping to shift our brainwaves into brainwave states associated with deep states of rest and relaxation and meditation and healing. So if you're like me, like what I was talking about, my mind is so busy and I have a lot of energy, it's always going, the sound can help to sort of bypass that and shift your brainwaves into the calmer brainwave state. So, sound baths range in length from one minute, I mean, something's better than nothing, even if you move 30 seconds sound bad, take a few deep breaths. It's amazing. Um, but they also can go on for you know, 30 minutes, I would say minor typically 30 to 45 minutes. Sometimes you'll have a sound bout that's 60 minutes or 90 minutes. And that can be really deep and really profound. And essentially what you do is you lie down and you listen, my sound bites usually include some form of guidance, because for me, my mind needs that I find that a lot of they just like I'm like, okay, and I'm just listening to sounds and that's great, you're relaxed, but the guidance can help you to go even deeper. So you listen to the guidance, and then at a certain point, that guidance that talking will stop and you'll be so relaxed that you can feel like you're floating or in a safe way feel like you're out of your body almost like you're in this dreamlike state and it's incredible people you know, experience an hour long sound bath and they'll say I felt like five minutes. So it's, it's a really wonderful way to get deep rest very efficiently and very effectively because when we get into those brainwave states theta and the Delta brainwave states research suggests it can have the same benefits of eight hours of deep sleep just being in a sound bath for one hour. Yeah, well

Katie: 14:16

that's amazing that's similar to TM Yeah, yeah. Wow. Are the bowls that are behind you are those bowls that you use? Yes. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, we screenshot of this because it's gorgeous. Where what is the origin of sound bass does it because I did Kundalini Yoga one time and at the end of it, there was a sound bath and she's gongs and multiple things. It is it related to Kundalini Yoga.

Susy: 14:45

So no sound healing and soundbox go all the way back throughout time. I mean, in ancient Egypt and the pyramids, they had sound chambers. And you know, 40,000 years ago in in Australia, ancient aborigines would use didgeridoo to mend broken bones. So humans have used sound for healing throughout time. Sound bonds as we know them today are more recent, like the idea of lying down in Shavasana. Experiencing sound bath, I would say is grown in popularity over the past 20 or so years, especially as yoga has become more popular and mainstream in the west. It is definitely common in kundalini yoga to include a sound bath because a great deal of Kundalini Yoga focuses on the nod the sound current. So if you go to a kundalini yoga, yoga class, most likely you'll be doing some sort of chanting at the very least when you begin the class, you'll be tuning in, activating that sound current within you, and most likely doing another mantra based meditation at some point during the class. And then at the end, or even throughout the class, different teachers will do different things, though incorporate sound. And sound is used in kundalini yoga for its creative power, right? Like sound is pure creative potential. And so when we're looking to really create shifts in our nervous system, and at the deepest levels of our energy fields, sound is one of the most efficient and effective ways to do that. So

Katie: 16:21

that's amazing. Yeah, I

Amy: 16:23

actually noticed just from doing like, the couple minutes just now, my, my body completely felt different before and after, like, I was kind of stressed. And then I listened to that. And then I noticed, I started talking slower, I was more relaxed. Usually I talk super fast. And if I'm doing an intro, I'm like that. I don't know that and I felt really center doing it. So thank you. But tell us about, you know, you mentioned how seven years ago, you went through a really tough time with anxiety, etc, etc. Like, how did you discover this practice? When you were in that state? Like, how did you find it? I guess I would say,

Susy: 17:01

so, I had been searching for a little while, that period of darkness and struggle really had gone on for a while I was turning to alcohol and prescription drugs to, you know, help me cope with the anxiety that I was feeling and facing and just, I think not recognizing how sensitive energetically I am and, and, and how out of alignment I was in my life. And so it began with getting sober and really starting a journey of trying to get sober before it even stuck. So I went to rehab in 2015. And when I was in rehab, I had music therapy. And so in music therapy, we started to work with my voice and listening to sounds listening to music. And that really helped me to feel in a way that I hadn't felt safe to feel before. Like I remember going and coming out and just crying and like feeling this huge release and like it was finally safe to feel some feelings that I had been holding on to for a long time. And from that point, I really began to open myself up to you know, alternative healing methods and I started to explore different meditation practices. I also got certified in TM, I started to really learn about the moon and the cycles of the moon, I started to become really interested in crystals. I read some spiritual books, The Alchemist played a huge role in my journey and opening me up to sort of feeling like I was on my path and on my on my journey. And all of those things combined led me to really tune into this guidance is the only way I can describe it to move to California, even though it was like probably the last place I ever thought I would move. I remember when I had first moved to New York City after college and I was in culinary school, I had a friend who was from LA. And I would make fun of him. I was like why would you play like pretty do that I thought New York was like where it was that it was a place to be. And once I got into that space of really opening myself to healing, I felt like there's something there for me. And so I moved out to LA and at that point, I had stopped drinking but I was still feeling incredibly anxious and having panic attacks. And in the process of moving my aunt who lives out here said to me, do you want to come to a sound bath? And I didn't even ask her what it was, like we talked about before a lot of people say you know, or maybe wet or what is this? What is the sound off? Am I gonna leave my body? Is it safe? I was just like, of course it felt so natural to say yes. And I went and in that sound bath. It felt like coming home. It's nothing. I mean, like you described me like I was grounded and centered in my body. And when I left I could speak clearly and calmly and something had shifted and it didn't last forever. You know after a little while I went back to school. My same self, because we do we return to our most consistent state of consciousness until we shift that which can take some time. So I craved it from there. So I was like, I want more of that feeling. And I went back to another sound bath and another and another. And over time, it did start to become more my norm. And I was able to commit to having a TM practice. So not only was I going to sound as I was meditating twice a day, and I started to explore Kundalini Yoga, going to Kundalini yoga classes, and then eventually taking yoga teacher trainings, and it just opened up everything. Yeah.

Katie: 20:36

That's amazing. And thank you for sharing your your story with your struggle with addiction and everything. And were you able to, before you move to LA, did you overcome the addiction? Or was it also part of the process of coming to LA and discovering the sound baths and everything that that got you to that final point,

Susy: 20:54

it was part of the process of discovering sound baths, and connecting with a sober community. So once I left rehab, I didn't drink alcohol, but I would go out with friends. And I would be like, Oh, it's fine. I'm just gonna take a hit of pot. So I would like smoke little pot or eat a little edible. Because to me, that was something that didn't cause me a lot of harm. When I drank, I would end up in the hospital. But we've never really had a negative effect that had repercussions in my life. But ultimately, once I was able to connect with what I mean, my true self, like that light within me, and that sense of peace that I was searching for, by taking the drink or taking the head or whatever, I was like, I don't need that. And yeah, so right, pretty much right after I moved, it was like the last time I smoked and never never went back. Thank god,

Katie: 21:45

that's amazing. Good for you. And congratulate incredible, so profound. It's amazing. It's such such an enlightened aunt to the sounds very cool, lives in LA and takes you to sound amazing. What were some of your biggest challenges learning all of this? Because this is such a, I mean, to me, it's kind of a foreign practice, I think, to a lot of people that aren't familiar with, it's a whole new world. So learning everything along the way, what were some of your bigger challenges,

Susy: 22:15

I would say my biggest challenges were sort of the voice of judgment in my own head, and my own mind, you know, and feeling like, I went to a great, like, I went to a great college, I went to UVA, and I had this path, you know, working in New York City working in luxury, lifestyle management, and more of a traditional path. And as I began to feel called to learn and share sound healing, there was a voice within me that was like, Are people gonna think I'm weird? Do we are going to think I've gone off the deep end that I'm some woowoo hippie. And so I think like quieting those thoughts, and just saying, Well, this has helped me, how's it gonna help someone else? And coming back? So that really, really helped me to break through that. Um, and yeah, I mean, I grew up on the east coast, where it's compared to LA, relatively unknown, it's definitely growing more and more throughout the country and throughout the world. But I think like that fear of judgment, and then also like, who am I? Who am I to share this, right? Because I don't think I don't think there's ever a point in our journey where we're totally healed. And we feel like, Oh, I've got this, I've mastered this. Like, it's just the nature of, of human life, I think and the gift of it, that if we're open, we'll continue to heal, we'll continue to learn, we'll continue to grow. And so that sort of fear of being found out like feeling like a fraud, like who am I to get to share this? Am I really going to be able to help people? Those thoughts were what would come up and hold me back? And every time they did, I would just be like, No, I'd like this helped me. If it helps one other person, that's what matters. Like if it means that sorry, have a panic attack or doesn't consider taking their own life as I had had those thoughts in my own journey mean? Like, if someone finds peace because of this, then what does it matter if I feel like I'm ready or not, quote, unquote, you know, just Sure. sharing it? Yeah.

Katie: 24:15

It's it's like that imposter syndrome kind of thing. Like, I feel like Amy and I went through a two when we were first starting the podcast, like, why would people want to listen to us? And why would people want to come and be on our show? It's, but it's the whole thing. If you just think about, like, passing it along, and it helping even just one person. It's enough of a motivator. So yeah, that's amazing.

Amy: 24:33

Yeah. So speaking of growing and talking about your personal story, I know one of the big things I think a few years ago you came out about was your alopecia story. And I think it was like, maybe right after I met you, and I remember reading afterwards and being so proud of you for just letting it go and being real and like just embracing it. And so, can you tell everyone sort of that journey and your history and just the whole story around because I think it's fascinating and beautiful.

Susy: 25:07

Absolutely. Yeah. And it's cool. I think you and I met pretty recently after I had shaved my head and stopped wearing a wig. Um, it's been an incredible journey that from where I'm sitting now, I deeply feel has been my greatest gift and my greatest teacher, you know. But for most of my life, I did not feel that way. You know what, what happened is when I was about seven, I started to experience alopecia areata, which is essentially unexplained hair loss, it's your immune system, your immune system is attacking your hair follicles. And so as a little girl, I started to experience bald spots. And they were small enough that we probably couldn't tell, but I knew. And I felt this great sense of fear that, you know, someone would see it and figure out that I was losing my hair and think something was wrong with me or call me a freak, or, you know, I just, I felt unlovable, I really felt like there was something wrong with me. And I have three sisters. And we were known as the for blonde shufflin Girls like that was like a part of our identity. And so the fact that, you know, I had this secret that I didn't want anyone to find out about. It was really, it was really deeply painful. And so yeah, I continue to lose my hair for I mean, I still do today have bald spots, I still experience it, I began this journey of trying to figure out like, what was wrong with me. And so my mom took me to all sorts of doctors, you know, dermatologists all the way to Reiki healers all the way to our Vedic practitioners, and so on and so forth. And it was this quest, and I would take all sorts of supplements, and I would not eat this, and I would take this vitamin or take these homeopathic pills, and nothing really worked. I would get cortisone injections in my scalp every month from the dermatologist like, and sometimes I had so many bald spots that it would be like 100 shots in my head. Oh, gosh, yeah, it was crazy. And it would, but the thing is, it would fall out again. So like, just as quickly as it would start to grow, it would fall out. And so it was kind of like playing Whack a Mole. And then, as I'm trying to figure out, you know, how to stop it from falling out how to get it to grow back? Why is it falling out in the first place, then it's like trying to hide it. So it was this

Amy: 27:39

talk about anxiety, like,

Susy: 27:42

all consuming, like, all I could think about when I was in public was our people gonna notice, you know, and I would spray it with hairspray. And then at certain points, it was so bad that I would wear a wig to cover it up. And to be totally honest, it was exhausting. It was exhausting. Like, my best friends who knew like just beyond the extremes that I went to, to make sure that no one would figure out that I had bald spots. And I think it played a huge role in why I drank a lot of alcohol, you know, because if it would turn off those thoughts, I would drink and take pills to the point where like, I wasn't worrying anymore. I was just able to be and you know, as I let go of alcohol and as I embarked on a journey into sobriety and got sober and began these practices of healing, working with, you know, Crystal alchemy, singing bowls, practicing Kundalini Yoga, you know, really getting to know myself and be with myself having a daily meditation practice. I started to feel like feel for the first time internally, what if there's nothing wrong with you like, in doing all those things, and in seeking out all those healers, I got my body to a place where I was completely healthy. Like I had nutritionists. Acupuncture is like, all my blood work was fine. And so I thought, you know, if I'm perfectly healthy, and yet my hair still falling out. Maybe I'm just not supposed to have hair. And maybe this is a gift that's come into my life to give me the opportunity to really find that self love and self acceptance, no matter what, you know, no matter what I look like, on the outside, it's not a reflection of who I am on the inside. And my beauty and my worth comes from within. So I started to feel that and you know, it takes time once you start to feel that to really actually believe it. And so I started to speak out about my experience, I started to share about it on social media and tell people you know, I'm experiencing alopecia. And so many people would reach out to me and say, oh my god, me too. Like this is my biggest secret. And they would say you know, I'm wearing a wig too or I've been experiencing this or this is brand new, my hair starting to fall out. I'm freaking out. I have no one to talk to about that. And in speaking out about it, it was really healing. You know, it was like, Wow, I'm not alone. And by it's such a secret that I've been hiding for years, I really did feel alone. And the people who knew my mom and a few friends, like, they couldn't relate in the same way, you know, so I just felt really alone in my experience. And then when I started to share, a lot of healing took place, because it was like, wow, you know, I don't have to hide this. And in fact, by being honest, I'm helping other people to feel hope, too. And so I got to a point where I was like, Okay, this is who I am. This is who I meant to be like, I had pretty much half a head of hair, which just looks weird. Like, it's not ideal. I mean, to me, if I knew, and I don't know, if anyone else has half a head of hair, and they love that, that's great. But to me, it didn't feel like I was like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. So I went to my hairstylist who had been helping me for years to like dye my hair white blonde, so you can see the bald spots and then styling my wigs and I went to my Sybil, you helped me shave it all off. And so we shaved it off, it was a new moon, and I let go of having hair. And now I shaved my head every day. And I still have bald spots, I still probably have like half a head of hair if I were to let it grow out. But I don't know if I ever would like even if my hair did grow in fully. I don't know if I would want a full head of hair. Because being bald and like accepting this and embracing it has given me such a beautiful point of connection with other people, you know? Yeah.

Amy: 31:43

And so much freedom, I would think to like when you probably did it, I don't know. But I would guess you probably felt like free and you're like, okay,

Katie: 31:50

yeah, how was that first experience when you shaved it for the first time.

Susy: 31:54

So at first, it was freeing. And it was also terrifying because I show exposed and I actually continued to wear a wig for like a month and a half. And there would be times where I would like not wear the wig. I remember I went to like, an ecstatic dance class, and I didn't wear the wig. And I came home and I was like, Oh my gosh, that felt so intense like to let myself be seen in it. And so little by little I would go out without the wig. And just be like, Oh, it's safe. You know, it's safe to be seen, like, I have felt this within myself and now going and public and nobody cared. I mean, sometimes people ask me, and sometimes people I've had people come up in, you know, coming up, they're gonna pray for me and my cancer journey and things like that. And I'm like, okay, that's coming from a place of love and caring within them. It doesn't actually have to do with me, you know. And so I don't know, in fact, I'm like, thank you. If anyone wants to pray for me, I'll take it. I'll take prayers. But I don't let it trigger me anymore and the way that it used to, and then I went on a yoga retreat in Costa Rica. And for that whole week, I didn't wear my wig. And when I came back, I felt really grounded in in being bald and haven't worn one since other than for like a Halloween costume but pink wig or something.

Amy: 33:11

Yeah, funny. It's beautiful story from doing this. This podcast. I've just noticed Katie that like it seems like people's and this would be the case for you to Susy. Like your biggest like challenge, and fear is your greatest gift, right? It's like, everything happens for a reason. And it's like you are meant to be this way. And so thank you for sharing that and being so open about it. I think a lot of people will feel really empowered by it. Because yeah, you don't know what's going on with with people. And if you can help one person, I think that's, that's amazing. So thank you for sharing that. So what is your favorite thing about what you do? You do so many beautiful practices, but like, What's your favorite thing and kind of tell us what you'd like to spend the most time doing?

Susy: 34:00

I oh my gosh. So I love all of it. I really do. And yeah, so many different things. But if I had to choose, I would say I really love right now I'm mentoring other teachers and healers, like supporting other people and stepping into their power and really taking ownership of their guests. Because just as you shared, like our greatest challenges, almost always turn out to be our greatest gifts. And, you know, if you're on a path of being a teacher or a healer, it's probably for a reason the healing has probably touched you in your own personal life. And so it brings me so much joy to support other people and really owning that and embodying it and then taking it and feeling confident sharing it and creating a business doing it. So a lot of the work that I do recently is training sound healers and supporting them and building businesses with it because what I see is a lot of a lot of teachers and healers. Have walks around money and no one teaches you how to be an entrepreneur and you feel called in your heel, your healing your healing, and you feel healed and you want to share it, but then you're like, but how do I support myself doing this. And so it inspires me so much to help teach people how to build a business and like how to create a life where you're not only talking the talk and sharing, but like you're walking the walk, and you're embodying it in all areas, and you don't have to show up to a day job and feel like you're putting on a suit and pretending you're someone else. And then at nighttime, you can take that suit off and feel comfortable in your own skin. Like for me the equivalent of like, putting a wig on and then taking it off, you know, like, how can we all take our wigs off and show up in our life with our friends, our family, our clients, all all areas truly, as who we are, and show the guests we came here to share. So I love working with people one on one. And I have a group mentorship and a sound healing training, where that's really a lot of what we focus on is that embodiment of our of our gifts.

Katie: 36:04

That's so cool. You're so you're teaching people to use this practice to heal. And then you're also teaching people how to be successful entrepreneurs. I mean, it's really, it's amazing. It's really inspiring. We need to talk to you offline about successful entrepreneurial show. So do you have some retreats coming up? We would love to hear about them. You do you do retreats often?

Susy: 36:31

So I do. I do do retreats often. Right now I'm preparing for maternity leave. So I will be taking a little mini retreat. And then I have a retreat in Mount Shasta in September, which is for the women who are currently in my business mentorship. So that's a treat that I offered them once a year and then looking at dates for a Hawaii retreat, which was supposed to take place in January, but was pushed back due to Omicron. So a COVID rescheduling. So stay tuned. If anyone's out there and wants to come on retreat in probably early October. I'll be leading a retreat on Maui. And it's going to be really, really cool. Yeah, but

Amy: 37:14

incredible. And then do you have classes I know are you still you still do your classes with Allah moves? If people have that platform where they can hear your sound baths? Yeah, or yoga or what? Yeah,

Unknown: 37:27

I have actually Kundalini yoga and sound baths on Alo moves. And they're releasing new classes that I've created with them almost every day like, oh, wow, yeah, at least three times a week. Right now there's new classes coming out. We've been recording non stop for the past few months. And I was actually just in the recording studio recording some audio only classes, definitely check out all moves. And then I also have a monthly sound healing membership, which has a whole library of on demand classes similar to the classes that I offer and all the moves. But they're they're different. And they're different links and they're filmed around the world. And in that membership, you get access to live events, too. So I host a new moon and full moon virtual ceremony sound bath events where we come together on it's actually through YouTube Live. So we don't see each other but we can chat in and we do a beautiful intention setting based on the energy of that moon I talk about, you know how to make the most of that energy. And then we share intentions and then relax in the sound bath. So membership, yeah, you get access to the live events. And we're bringing in guest teachers to teach special workshops this year, we just had actually today our first live community call where we were on zoom so we could see each other and everyone sort of shared what was present for them and receive you know, support and prayers and coaching and guidance and we did a beautiful Reiki meditation. So my monthly membership is such a wonderful way to dive into, you know, a more committed experience of healing through sound

Katie: 39:05

work and our listener find the monthly membership that is

Unknown: 39:09

on my website, thecoppervessel.com/TCVC. A copper vessel collective.

Amy: 39:16

No, I was looking on your website and I saw something about your retreats and the membership and there's just so much great content on there. So definitely, hopefully our listeners will check that out on your website as well as your Instagram. Okay, so we are going to get into our rap session. And the first question for you is, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Susy: 39:41

I would say my favorite wellness or beauty hack is going to bed and waking up early.

Amy: 39:48

So sleep Yeah,

Susy: 39:50

early bedtime and early rising. I usually try to wake up at 530 latest six Yeah 930

Katie: 39:57

Yeah, yeah.

Amy: 39:59

That's Katie's vibe right there..

Katie: 40:01

There. I know, 100% like the my absolute latest is 1030. And I try I'm trying to push it to 5am. Now I usually get up at six, but I'm trying to do five so that I can get my TM and before the day starts, so we'll see how that goes. That might be tricky. But since we've been on the West Coast, my husband I've literally been falling asleep at 730 The last two nights and it's sleeping until 630. The next day, like cheese, we must have been really tired.

Susy: 40:27

It's the best coming to the west coast from the east coast because you're like, up bright and early. Because the time difference.

Katie: 40:34

Exactly. Yeah, it's so funny. All right, this next one we call your five minute flow. You just got to the shower. Uber pings you they're five minutes away. What are you going to do? What are your holy grail should go twos to get into that Uber on time?

Susy: 40:49

Well, that could be pretty much my everyday my everyday beauty routine. Super simple. Yeah, shower, get out. I obviously don't need to do my hair. So that saves a lot of time. I use Vitamin C E Ferulic by SkinCeuticals put that on. I love audacity they have an amazing all embracing serum oil that I put on on top of that. deodorant, natural deodorant. I usually will do wash off for a few minutes just to flush out you know, lengthen my face. reduce any puffiness and bloating which right now is at an all time high being this pregnant. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm pregnant chipmunk you

Amy: 41:25

guys. I'm sure you'll see when you when you check her out. But she has the most gorgeous skin. So like ever. I've seen her in person and her skin is flawless and gorgeous.

Susy: 41:35

Yeah, and I put belly oil on my pregnant belly and put on a sweat suit or a cute comfy Alo yoga outfit. I'm almost always wearing alo. And then I would make a cup of hot water and lemon to start my day and really start moving my metabolism and be in the car. I don't even think I need five minutes. Easy.

Katie: 41:54

Yeah, that's fabulous.

Amy: 41:56

Nice. Great. And then how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Susy: 42:01

Ooh, morning meditation if I wasn't running into an Uber, and if I got an Uber, I would still do it is through a daily meditation practice. Like no matter what I'm starting my day with at least 11 minutes, if not 20. If I'm doing a TM practice, although I'm not really committed to a TM practice. Right now I'm doing more of a Kundalini based morning practice. So I'll do chanting meditation. And then I'm doing my second year in a row of studying A Course in Miracles. So I read the daily lesson for that, and I meditate silently on that lesson. And then I say some prayers and really turned my day over to the universe. I'm like, I don't need to figure anything out. I don't need to be the one to control it. Just let me be of service. Let me lead from love. And that gives me a lot of peace. The prayer prayer component of my morning practice, you know, takes I

Katie: 42:58

love that. Yeah, I'd love the idea of turning the day over to the universe. That's really beautiful. It seems like it would just relieve one of so much pressure and stress, right? Yeah, that's

Amy: 43:13

such a random thing. But like, I'm, I'm, I'm watching you. And I'm like, Okay, you're having a baby, you know, very soon, and I'm just so excited for you to have a baby. I'm so excited for the baby to have you. Yes, you're gonna be such a good, beautiful mom. Because of like, all the things you said, but just your whole energy is like, That baby's just really lucky as all I have to say. Because I feel like that baby's gonna be born into the world with so much love and so much like, balance and calmness and I'm just I'm really looking forward to seeing the baby and all of that journey. It's going to be so beautiful for you. You're gonna make me cry. I just felt compelled to say that as you're talking and I was looking at you and that's just going to be so special. So your due your 33 weeks. So you're due like in a month, right? Yeah. That's great. Baby, which is nice.

Susy: 44:10

Yeah. Yeah, great. We'll see if he's gonna be an Aries or a Taurus, or you're

Amy: 44:15

having a boy. I was gonna ask you I wasn't sure if you knew I have two boys. So I'm a big boy fan. And boy mom and Katie has two girls so

Susy: 44:27

I'm your boy mom tips cuz I know nothing about little boys being one of four girls.

Amy: 44:35

Yeah, they're the best. They are. Good tips. Yeah.

Katie: 44:40

Great. Well, Susy, we usually wrap the show with a closing mantra. I don't know if you have. We know that you share these beautiful mantras all the time on your on your Instagram feed. Do you have a mantra you'd like to share? If not, we have one.

Susy: 44:57

I would say the mantra I would love to share is. I am whole.

Katie: 45:03

You just gave me chills. I know it's beautiful. And yeah.

Amy: 45:06

Thank you so much, Susy. This was invigorating, empowering. Like just so beautiful. Such a great way to like end the week. And we really appreciate you being on and we're just really excited for you and your journey and we'll continue to be fans and cheer you along. And hopefully you'll come back. You're welcome to come back anytime and chat with us and we'd love to have you back to talk more. There's just so much to all the sound healing that you do. And for our listeners, definitely check Susy's Instagram her website and try a sound bath because it is very transformative. So thank you so much Susy.

Episode 45 - Finding Your Happy With Dr. Sophia Godkin, The Happiness Doctor (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 45 Finding Your Happy With Dr. Sophia Godkin, The Happiness Doctor.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to Nirvana sisters, I am really excited for this interview this week. I think we're gonna learn a lot and it's going to be very interesting. We are sitting down with the happiness doctor, Dr. Sophia Godkin. She's a health psychologist, happy ologists and happy Ness relationship and transformational coach. She is recognized for helping people all around the world learn to love themselves, create pleasure, build relationships and become happy from the inside out without having to force or fake it. As a renowned Coach, University professor and head of learning at international wellness companies, Dr. Sophia has taught people of all ages and backgrounds the principles and practices of happiness and healing for many years, whether in the form of individual coaching, writing or group Education, Dr. Sophia is known for the depth lightheartedness and transformative potential of her work. And that is really exciting and interesting. I love the whole idea of it. So Hi, Dr. Sophia, thank you for being here. Should we call you Dr. Godkin? Dr. Sophia, happiness Doctor, what? What would you like us to call you?

Sophia: 1:34

You can call me Sophia, Katie and Amy.

Katie: 1:37

Okay. All right, Sophia. So thank you so much for being here. Let's Let's kick it off with our nirvana of the week. Amy, what was yours?

Amy: 1:45

Yeah, so mine happens earlier today. I was I typically try not to go on social media or my phone in the morning because it's so distracting, as we all know. But it was Friday. And I was just kind of lazy. So I looked at my Instagram and I saw that something had popped up that it was a year since we launched our first podcast episode, which was such a surprise. I just wasn't thinking about it. Because Katie and I started the podcast in the business during the pandemic like late 2020. But I didn't realize we officially launched this day, January 28. Last year, so it was amazing to see and to see other progress you made and I was just super excited about it. So that was my little joy of the day. What about you, Katie? I

Katie: 2:25

love that. That's great. Mine was yesterday, I had some really nice quality one on one time with Rhys mangas daughter, she I was I've been kind of under the weather and I felt really good yesterday afternoon. And I was just really like, sewn down on her and playing and being silly. And we were doing she was first she was my doctor. And then she was my hairstylist and she was my makeup artists. It was really cute. She told me she said, I'm a doctor on Fridays. I'm a hairstylist on Saturdays. I'm a makeup artist on Sundays. So I said I

Amy: 2:54

already that's great. It's already an entrepreneur. So that she do that with me because I have boys and they

Katie: 3:00

don't you know she would love to do. What about you, Sophia? What was your Nirvana this week?

Sophia: 3:06

Thanks for asking Katie. It's actually similar to yours. But it happened with my cat. I traveled all of last week. So I had no pet time at all. And I came back, you know, feeling like I need to do all of the things that I missed last week. But I think it was Wednesday on Wednesday, I woke up to do my usual routine of you know, going to the gym and starting on all the tasks that I have to do. But something you know, inside me so just hanging out hanging out in bed a little longer. And I think it was my cat Leo, who really allowed that to happen, because he's just the softest thing. During Yeah, during these winter months. Yeah, so we just hung out in bed for an extra hour and a half, maybe. And

Amy: 3:50

we need to see him. Is he around? By your feet? Not by my

Sophia: 3:55

feet. No, no, he's not by my feet. But maybe I can show you some other time. Yeah, I'm sure he left him with a cameo.

Katie: 4:02

That sounds great. I love we kind of love the good pet Snuggles. Well, let's go ahead and get started. Because I feel like we have so much to unpack here. First of all, so in your career, you've you're a psychologist, and but how like, explain what the happiness doctor is and how you became the happiness doctor.

Sophia: 4:24

Oh, thanks so much for asking Katie. Yes. So, oh, let's see where to begin. So my personal journey, my my professional journey rather, has been like a mix of psychology and education. I'm a lifelong learner. I'm incredibly passionate about education. I think education can really change lives. It can, you know, provide us with the tools that we need to make the changes that we really want to make. So I've dabbled for as long as I can. Remember I've dabbled in psychology and education. You mentioned earlier I was a professor I lead education teams for various health wellness companies. And then at some point, you know, I realized that This thing that I called my side gig, which is coaching people, one on one doing group coaching programs, and really, you know, creating personalized tools for true happiness and emotional healing, that that's really where my heart was. And that that actually, you know, allowed me to express those strengths that I have of education and, and learning and really, you know, expressing compassion for people and guiding them through the struggles that life is inevitably filled with. So yeah, at some point, I just decided to go for it. And I said, Okay, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do my own thing. Because that's how I feel that I can help the world the most. And it was actually a friend of mine that, you know, I was thinking of a business name, when the happiness doctor was still a side gig. And, you know, we were bouncing around with names and nothing felt right, you know, intuitively, you know, when something is you and when it's not you, and it just wasn't falling into place. And then one day, she calls me and she's like, You're the happiness doctor? And I was like, yes, yes, I am like that. That's exactly what I do. That's exactly what emanates from me naturally. Right? And so yeah, today, I'm the happiness doctor. I love it.

Katie: 6:09

I know, it's such a good name. I mean, it doesn't get any better.

Amy: 6:13

I know. And I love how in the intro, you refer to yourself as a happy ologists, which I'd never heard. And that's fantastic.

Katie: 6:20

So before you became the happiness doctor, were you doing the traditional therapy sessions? Or was that when you're, you're solely focused on being a professor? What were you teaching at the time? And also, you certainly worked for wellness companies.

Sophia: 6:36

So I was trained as an academic psychologist, and my expertise was in health psychology, the mind body connection, really. So I was teaching courses like health psychology and positive psychology, and even research methods and the not fun thing sometimes. Yeah, so I was really, you know, heavily focused on teaching at the time and also conducting research. But again, as I mentioned, I figured out after quite a few years that I needed to be the one on the frontlines, I needed to be the one that was helping enact change, rather than conducting the evidence based research on the back end, and waiting for, you know, evidence to emerge for things that I really in my heart already knew to be effective. Oh,

Katie: 7:19

I like that. I love that. That's interesting. Okay, so you have created these courses, then you you're coaching people, one on one, and you're also doing group coaching. And then you have developed a course called the negative thinking and feeling cure course. So let's dive into that a little bit. Explain to us what that is.

Sophia: 7:39

Please. Yeah, thanks for asking about that. Katie. Yeah, so this course is essentially a response to the biggest struggle that people tell me that they have, right, what do I do with my thoughts and emotions, like, these thoughts? Get me down, these thoughts overwhelm me, they stressed me out, and the feelings that I have, are responsible for my unhappiness, right. That's what I hear in various forms, repeatedly from from clients and potential clients. And so I thought, okay, you know, let's let me think back to my own personal journey, and what did I really need to learn at the very beginning, and it made so much sense to me that this is what people keep asking about, because one of the first things I remember really deeply learning and really kind of pivoting within myself was how I related to my thoughts and emotions. And so the negative thinking and feeling cure course, is really about helping us to understand what thoughts and emotions really are, and how we can relate to them differently. And what I mean by that is really challenging the things that we're told, we're told, you know, negative thoughts are bad, and feelings, uncomfortable feelings, like sadness and anger are bad. And so we need to push them away, we need to tuck them away in a corner, we need to hide them, pretend they're not there. And that's actually what exacerbates the emotional pain that many of us walk around life with. And so this course is just, you know, a really gentle invitation to think about things a little differently in a way that I think actually helps us to live with the thoughts and emotions that we as human beings have. So it's all about changing how we think about them and how we relate to them.

Amy: 9:13

So is it kind of going into to the mindset and kind of accepting the thought and then having strategies around how to sort of bring it into your life but not bring you down? I don't know if you could, like help us think about because I know when I have a negative thought in my head, I tried to think there's always you always hear these things, like thoughts become things or don't give energy to a negative thought, but it's like hard to really know what that means or to implement that. So maybe you can share a tip or something that can help people that have a quick negative thoughts that come in their head, like how do they kind of get out of that zone? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

Katie: 9:54

I was also just really quickly going to ask it's kind of a tack on to your question. That's why I interrupted Is it? Is it the, in Buddhism, the living with your thoughts and your feelings, your negative thoughts and feelings? They tell you to to like, say, Okay, I'm anxious. Let me hold on to that. And let me like almost nurture my anxiety like give it a hug like you're you're welcome here, you can be here with me we can live in this space together. Is it anything like that?

Sophia: 10:23

Yes, I would say, Katie, your example is a little bit more aligned with what I was sort of referring to as far as what the course offers the perspective that the course offers and the invitation that exists within that course for us to relate to things differently. Yeah, you can think of it as holding the emotion or, again, just relating to it in a way that doesn't treat it as an enemy, right doesn't treat it as this invader, and doesn't treat it as a like, as a bad thing. Really, right. At the very most basic level. Negative thoughts aren't bad, right? They're not bad. And we're taught the, you know, against your thinking a negative thought. It's so bad. It's horrible. And like, you will, right Stop thinking about it. Right? Yeah. Like you alluded to Amy, it's, oh, my gosh, it's it's determining my future in some negative way. And that doesn't help. That just doesn't help. Right. And the energy is real, right? I don't disagree with that. But the way that we relate to that experience, can be kinder, it can be gentler, and it can embody more of the qualities that we know to actually help and heal and transform and create true happiness, if that makes sense. And we can definitely use an example Amy or Katie, maybe you have a thought that that we can work with a thought that's not the most pleasant thought that maybe you

Amy: 11:41

had real time coach. Yeah,

Katie: 11:42

sure. I'll give you one. Yeah, sure. Let's see.

Amy: 11:48

Let me go through my,

Katie: 11:49

let me go through all of my problems. No, I'm just kidding. Um, all right. Here's a good one. So like I have mentioned and Amy knows and Raul probably sick and tired of hearing it, which there's a negative thought and itself is that I have been unwell lately. And I have this negative thought in my mind that these people in my life friends, new friends, I just moved to New Town that like they think I'm the sick girl. Like, you know, he was the sick girl again. You know, like, it's like that insecurity thought of like, your ego again, kind of thing. So there's one.

Sophia: 12:19

Yeah, absolutely. And how, and I know, we don't have all the time in the world. So we're gonna just gonna work with it a little bit if that's okay. And how does that thought make you feel?

Katie: 12:28

Like lousy and pathetic?

Sophia: 12:31

Yeah, yeah. So let's, let's see this thought as something coming from within you. That's actually here to give you a message. Okay. What would that message be? What would that message be? If this was a thought coming from within you? It's not really coming from the women. It's coming from within you. It's and it's uncomfortable, right? And there's a reason it's uncomfortable. It's well done telling you something. I feel like

Katie: 12:55

it's telling me that I which and maybe I'm wrong, but then I'm really sick and tired of being sick all the time. I don't know is that the message? You know that I'm embarrassed about it? And then tired of it and sick of it?

Sophia: 13:08

It might be so maybe yeah, so maybe this this thought and the feeling associated with it is letting you know that. That may be you know, your system wants you to feel a little bit more accepting of the fact that you are unwell.

Katie: 13:22

Yeah, that's acceptance. Now, I think you're I think you're right. I've been thinking about that a lot lately. And it's kind of a it's an acceptance thing that I have stuff that I just have to deal with.

Sophia: 13:31

I just got chills. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, when it's so easy to see or think we're presuming we do this all of the time, all of us to think that, you know, this other person on the outside is the one thinking this about us that I'm the sick girl. But really, I'm the one thinking that I'm the sick girl and it doesn't feel good to see myself that way. Right? Because for as long as I can remember, I've been the well girl like I, you know, I when I look at you, like that's what I imagined, right? Katie so, so, so then you can relate to this thought, as you know, you can turn to it, like you said, even hold it and say, Hey, thanks for being here. Like you just made me aware of the fact that I'm seeing myself as the sick girl. And, you know, really, maybe I can see myself a little bit differently throughout this experience. Maybe I'm not as well as I once was. But maybe I can, you know, still envision myself a little differently. And maybe that sickness in and of itself is another messenger right here telling me that something's not right. something's a little off in my life. And what could that be? Right? And we can do this for you know, yeah, everything that you've got.

Katie: 14:32

Yeah, no, that's Yeah, that's great. I can really appreciate that. So it's, it's a matter of looking at what these negative thoughts are. This message that it's trying to come to convey and and what you can do to to work with that to make positive change. Basically,

Sophia: 14:50

yes, that's one part of it. Yes. And the other is really bringing the body in. Because the reason one of the other reasons that we push feelings away and thoughts away that are quote unquote Negative is that they feel uncomfortable, they feel physically uncomfortable, right? No one likes being angry or sad. It's physically uncomfortable. So we run away from it, we drink, we overeat, we do all of these things, because it's uncomfortable. And so the other part of it is really learning and fighting ourselves to feel what it's like to feel an emotion in our body without pushing it away, becoming comfortable with the physical sensations that might exist there. So maybe it's, you know, pressure in the chest, or tingling in the belly or, you know, tension in the forehead. But understanding that's okay, like, if we actually observe it and focus on it without pushing it away, it starts to maneuver and change all on its own, there's nothing we don't have to push it away. By pushing it away, it exacerbates. But when we can learn to be there with that sensation, it actually again moves that emotional energy moves throughout our body. So it's a mind body experience. Yes, the first part is really, you know, relating to that thought and emotion in a bit of a, you know, mind heart way. And the other is really somatic really inviting that experience, that physical experience that often accompanies thoughts and emotions.

Amy: 16:05

Okay, that's so interesting, you say that, because my, my younger son, Jules, who is 12, we had him go to a therapist A while ago, because he has a lot of anxiety. And it was mostly around like sports and performing and like, messing up or getting hurt. And he would just like just constantly, you know, ask questions and be really nervous before games, and just like this overly anxious, and we didn't really know what strategies he should use. And I remember when one of his sessions, they had followed up with me and kind of showed me what they had gone through with him. And it was that like, you know, it's not just what you're thinking your head, like, do you feel this in your chest? Do you feel this, like, the body piece to it, which I thought was really interesting. And I was so glad they did that being that he's so young. And he's learning that like, when he recognizes these things, that means this is happening. And this is it's okay to live with. You just have to learn how to, you know, strategize and think through things differently. So, yeah, that's great job.

Sophia: 17:08

Yeah. That's great to hear that he was introduced to that at a young age. Yeah, absolutely. And in

Amy: 17:13

your course, how does it work? Is it online? How many sessions is it? How can people find out more about the course? Because I think it's so interesting, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners would love to learn more about it. Yeah, thanks

Sophia: 17:24

for asking me. Yes, this course is fully online, self paced, you can you know, take it at your own leisure at your own pace. There are activities and exercises that you download a workbook that you download, and it's all available on my website, that happiness doctor.com.

Katie: 17:38

That's great, nice. And then you also do the coaching as well. So are the coaching sessions similar to traditional therapy? Is it or, like, what's the difference between coaching and therapy?

Sophia: 17:51

Hmm, great question, Katie. Yeah, so the way I like to think about it is coaching is focused on who you are now, and building on the strengths that you have in order to create the kind of future that you want. And therapy is a little bit more about paying attention to what has happened to date to create who you are, and maybe paying attention to and, and, you know, bringing some healing to things that have happened in the past but still influenced you today.

Katie: 18:19

Okay, I can see the difference here. That's interesting. Okay, so now, you mentioned somatic awareness. So what I want to do is I saw that you have these different modalities. And I think we've just touched on a few of them. And some of them we're very familiar with, and I'll just list them off really quickly. There's positive psychology, internal family systems, mindfulness, self compassion, somatic awareness, intuitive expression of arts, energy medicine, and generational ancestral healing. So I, you know, we've heard of mindfulness and self compassion and all of that, but I'd like to kind of like tick off and go through some of the more obscure ones that were not as familiar with maybe could help us better understand them. Amy, did you

Amy: 18:59

and I have a quick Yeah, I had a quick question. Just need a 101. What is the modality?

Sophia: 19:06

modality is a practice? You know, a tool skeletal? Okay, got it. Okay, perfect. Can't be more fancy word for tool and practice. Yeah.

Katie: 19:16

I'm glad we clarified that. So so positive psychology is that? Is that what we were just talking about?

Sophia: 19:24

What positive psychology is the science of happiness? So when you hear folks like Shawn Achor, and you know, other sort of researchers in happiness, talk about, you know, the practice of happiness. Usually, they're referencing research that's been conducted in the science of happiness. So positive psychology, you know, the traditional definition, the traditional way that we think about it is, we're really focusing on what's good, what's good about people, right? Because traditional psychology focuses on what's wrong with people, right? How can we address people when they're sort of at a negative 10? How can we bring them back to a zero and positive side ology says, Okay, you're at a zero or maybe a two, well, that's not enough. How can we get you to a 10? Right? So we're focusing on maybe, you know, things that are already going well, and like, how can we capitalize on that? Or, you know, you're starting this, this mindfulness practice where you're aware that, you know, these negative thoughts are bothering you, you're not depressed all the time. But you're aware that you can feel better and more of the time. So what can we do about that? How can we understand who you are? And how can we bring your strengths to the surface to really help us out in that process?

Amy: 20:27

It's funny that you say that. So just a couple of comments. That's like one of the reasons we start our show off with our nirvana of the day or the week is in that same vein, it just like occurred to me, it's because we want to start out thinking about things more positively versus what went wrong is what went right. And I try to also do that with my kids, when they say, Oh, I have to do this. And I'm like, No, you get to do this. So I think all of that mindset stuff is so critical. So yeah, that's

Katie: 20:56

great. I just recently started working with someone to work on positive parenting, and it's like very similar, instead of always waiting for the child to not do as they're told or, or to do the wrong thing. And only like call out like, I needed you to I asked you to do this three times, instead of that, it's, you're totally focusing on the positive, like, Oh, she just did something really great. Look at that beautiful job, great job. And then the positivity builds on the positivity builds on the positivity. And the next time I asked her to do something, she doesn't right away, because she wants that positive reinforcement that she knows might be coming. So true. It's just like a whole different scope of of doing things. And then it kind of shifts everything. And I imagine in psychology, it probably shifts people's framework and point of view and how they're focusing on life in general, right?

Sophia: 21:47

Absolutely, absolutely. Yes. And I love those examples. Because, you know, we're not brushing over the negative things, right? We're not saying forget about the negative, pretend it's not there. We're saying, hey, there's a lot of positive that we're actually missing. We're missing because our brains aren't attuned to look at things that way. So we need to make it an intentional practice, like the ways that you just mentioned, you know, we can actually intend to unconsciously bring forward the positive that already exists in our lives. And that can influence our romantic partnerships, our relationship with our children, our relationship with ourselves. Yeah, absolutely.

Amy: 22:18

I have so much to say on this. So. And I want both both of your opinions, because this is something I struggle with all the time, because I think there are different types of people glass half full and glass half empty, just naturally, right. So like, I'm glass half full on my husband's glass half empty. And so our biggest argument is always about parenting, because I tried to instill what Katie was just talking about like this positive parenting like, look what you did, right versus what you did wrong. My husband's sort of the opposite. Although he's definitely changed and gotten a lot more positive. I've seen it over the years. So I'm really happy about that. However, it's I don't know if you see this in your practice, or in your conversations with people. Dr. Sophia, but I just feel like it's really hard in a household when one parent is doing it one way and the other parents doing it another way and you're not really aligns. And you know, you know, he'll also get upset with me if I'm not more aggressive or stern when you do an Aryan that's disciplinarian, which I'm really not because again, I tried to just like, focus on the positive and like, maybe to a false. I tried tried to be disciplined, but it just, it just depends what it is. Right. So I just wonder if that's okay. If people kind of have different ways, like, Is the child still getting the positive pieces? Do you know what I'm saying?

Sophia: 23:43

Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to say, first of all, that your experience is so common, you're not alone. And, you know, sometimes partners find each other because or feel feel good around each other because they complement each other. Right? And when it comes, and then they have children, and that expresses itself in different parenting styles, right? So yes, you know, I see this a lot. And I would say that, yes, your child is still getting the positive benefits of, you know, the approach to parenting that you're choosing, Would it help if there was a little bit more alignment in parenting styles? Sure. But it doesn't mean that you know, your child is missing out in any way from your parenting style. being supportive and positive. I think what the most important thing is, is what is the child seeing as far as how you and your partner are getting along about the styles, right, what are they getting from the nonverbal messages, right, the things that you're not saying because their children pick up a lot on that type of information. Right.

Katie: 24:39

So interesting. Okay, so so that kind of segues us into the next one internal family systems. Let's touch on that a little bit. What what is that modality?

Sophia: 24:50

Oh, this one. So this is actually a crux of my practice these days because it's, for me, and my personal work and professional work has been In just a year, it's something that's catapulted inner transformation for folks. So internal family systems is based on the philosophy that we're all made of parts. So nobody is really singular, like, I'm not just nice, I have a part of me that's really kind. And I have a part of me, that can be mean sometimes, right? And the idea is, let's normalize that, right, Katie has parts like that Amy has parts like that Sophia has parts like that. Everybody who's listening has parts like that. And that's just one example. But the idea is that we all have a variety of parts, right. And, first of all, they're all good parts. You know, even the inner bully or inner critic that I like to call it, that criticizes us all the time, or says we're not good enough and says all of these things, it's actually here for us is here to help us it has our back. And it's doing that to prevent further pain and hurt. So the idea is, let's look at all of these various parts of us, let's try to understand how they emerge because each of them emerged as a protective response to something that happened earlier on in life for us, right, so they're all there for a very specific reason, they wouldn't be there otherwise. So let's get to know these parts of us. Let's attend to them. Again, it's all about that relationship between me and me. So let's show you how to sort of tend to that part, understand it better. And that's where healing can really take place. Right? When we turn inward and we stop, again, hating what we find inside. Right? Again, we're taught that, you know, the critical parts of us are the ones that aren't perfect or fill in the blank for you, right, we all have a lot of similarities. But we also have, you know, some some differences based on how we grew up. But we're all taught that those are parts that we need to again, push away and shove away. It's the same exact idea as what I described with thoughts and emotions, because parts of us express themselves as thoughts and emotions. So again, we're welcoming these parts of us, like you said earlier, Katie, we're learning how to hold them genuinely not just because I have to, but we're learning really how to welcome them into our inner world so that we're no longer having this inner feud, right? Most of us walk around with this inner struggle, where, again, one part of us is like, do this, the other one is do this, and we're just bouncing around life, without any real direction. So with internal family systems, with that sort of approach, we can really help people help ourselves connect to, you know, some real inner wisdom, you know, connect to your true self, your soul, whatever you want to think of it as, so that you can direct the various parts that exist within you rather than being directed by them if that makes sense. Right?

Katie: 27:32

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's, that is that's really interesting. It's, it's kind of like, like, do you feel like when people aren't able to accept these certain parts of themselves, it can almost like manifest in other ways. Also, like, like, it can just start to create problems in life, essentially, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. So I feel like we, I mean, I don't want to ever skip over mindfulness and self compassion. But I feel like we are familiar and comfortable with those two. So I'd like to move on to somatic awareness. And I feel like you touched on it earlier, is that what Amy was speaking to earlier with, with Jules and recognizing the feelings in his body?

Sophia: 28:13

Absolutely. So the idea is just that, you know, our bodies hold repressed emotions, they hold unreleased things that have happened in our lives, and the body can be an entry point into understanding what's going on within us. Yeah. And again, welcoming that experience, rather than pushing it away can really help pave the way for emotional processing.

Katie: 28:32

Yeah, it's amazing how some people can be really in tune to their bodies. And then some people are not at all they can just go walk through like, My father is a good example. I mean, walk through life entirely where I feel like his head is literally not attached to the rest of his body. It's just the you know, and then there's, and then I'm like, almost, I swing on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm so hyper aware of my body, like almost to a fault sometimes. But I am very much trying to teach our children about just like being in tune to what your body needs. And if your body's telling you to rest that that's important. And all of that, like we're, we've decided that we're going to label that our superpower in this house because I'm like freakishly into my body. So we're working on that one. But that's I've never heard of it as somatic awareness. So that's, that's great. I

Sophia: 29:19

love I love that Katie, I love seeing that as a superpower. Because it is it is our bodies hold so much wisdom, right? And if we just turn to it and start to speak its language, start to understand the language that it's speaking to us all of the time. We have access to things like oh my gosh, am I hungry? Oh my gosh, there's actually something I need that I'm not addressing and you know, all of these really important things in our lives. So I love hearing that. That that's a superpower in your household and yeah, somatic awareness is the you know, traditional scientific, you know, psychotherapist term, but yes, it's exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. And

Amy: 29:55

I think to our culture has such a I mean, I think the the pen Demmick actually helps this but our culture has such a go, go, go. Don't want like, push through, like, you know, oh, I'll skip lunch I'll like, I mean, our culture, we're just, you see that so much. I think the pandemic really helped people take a step back from that. But I think like what you're saying, I mean, I think you do need to be kind to yourself and listen to your body because I am much better than I used to be in that capacity. But years ago, I mean, I talked about it all the time on the show, I had migraines of vestibular migraines and dizziness, which I still haven't managed, but so much of it, I think, is linked to stress linked to hose film, not drinking of water, just not like taking a step back and really being like, how am I feeling? What else do I need today? Versus just like, going all day long, and like crashing at the end of the day, so it's so just exactly where you get, the more you sort of are in tune. But that's great that kids sorry, that the kids are getting I

Katie: 30:54

was just gonna tell I was just going to have the the example of exactly what you were saying when like, a few years ago, you were working so hard, you were going going going nonstop. And then you went to this charity event, you took the train back and forth in the past out. Like it's just like crazy stuff. Because yeah, we you know, it's like we don't take the time when you aren't listening to your body. It always catches up with you, right?

Amy: 31:16

Yeah, I was that particular that was like, Yeah, long time ago, I was at working like crazy. And then went to Disney World with the kids for a weekend. It was like a long weekend. And we were nonstop walking, did it like running around the entire weekend. And if anyone's been to Disney World, they know how exhausting it is with kids. And you're literally like on your feet all day. Morning tonight. Then I came back. And then I went to New York for a charity event. And I was standing at the event. We're watching a video, and I passed out in front of hundreds of people. And it was the scariest thing. So it's never happened to me before. And that was like the beginning of my journey to like figure out what was going on. But I mean, and it's funny, because I wasn't listening to myself. I wasn't like, Okay, I need to like, because a lot of times you feel and you know, it's funny, this was like our good friends charity events. So we didn't want to miss it. And a lot of times, you feel like, oh, I don't want to not go to something because you feel bad. But it sort of taught me like you have to listen to yourself and like really know, like, Hey, I should have never said yes to this because it's right after I was getting back and I know I need a day to like regroup. And I can't just go like other people can. So anyway, yes, I forgot about that. I was so long ago. But yeah, that was kind of like the beginning of all of my awareness issues. Yeah. Awareness, like blood sugar, or whatever that was. Yeah. Scary. Yeah.

Sophia: 32:35

And I just want to add, thank you so much for sharing that, that really authentic and vulnerable story, Amy. And I just want to add to you know, for everybody listening, it's a journey. It's a journey. Nobody, you know, on this call right now is doing this perfectly. We all struggle with, you know, parts of us that are used to overworking that's been the case for me or over, you know, fill in the blank, because that's what we've been taught to get our self worth from. So it's a process, you know, I don't want to make it sound like it's simple. Oh, just just tune into your body and

Katie: 33:04

how it works, right? It's hard work. Yeah.

Sophia: 33:07

But little by little we can, you know, again, create that invitation for ourselves. That's why I'm so glad that, you know, you guys are having this podcast and sharing this really important information. Yeah, what's

Amy: 33:17

interesting is in social media to the tide is shifting. But there's definitely like this, or at least there was seeing it last now. But definitely see it like this. Work hard, play hard, like, vibe with people where it looks like they're just like, doing all this stuff and not resting. And it again, feeds the beast of people feeling like they have to be doing all of these things and everything perfect. You might have to like hustle like I hate the word hustle. Not that I don't have a soul. We all have hustle, but it's like in doses, right? So these people that are like, I hustle, I get it done. Like you can't be you can't be successful unless you're hustling. 24/7 like, I don't agree with that. And there is that culture that I think we all try to lessen. But the more and more people that I think provide education arounds that you don't need to be that way to be successful and you don't have to be anxious to be successful. And you know, I think people that have anxiety feel that way to like, well, I'm anxious and then I think this way, and then I get this done. Because I thought that way and if I if I take a break or if I'm not anxious, then I'm not going to be successful because I'm going to be too relaxed or I'm going to be too calm. You know, it's like this perpetual. I don't know, I hear about it all the time. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, tangent.

Katie: 34:35

A good one, an important one. So I

Amy: 34:37

and what is what is the intuitive expression of arts? Let's touch on that one real quickly.

Sophia: 34:42

Oh, so? Yes. Um, you know, I think from from what I've seen, it's really important to give voice to the things that live inside us to the thoughts and emotions that live inside of us. And creative expression, whether it's dance, writing, art, whatever it is for you can be such a wonderful tool for healing. And it's just a great complement to all of the other modalities or tools that we've talked about so far today. So yeah, just giving voice giving form, you know, to whatever it is that lives inside of you, you know, some of my clients will draw, you know, that inner critic of theirs, right, just so they can externalize it and have it here, like, Oh, this is, you know, married the critic or whatever it is, that's just one example. Or drawing, you know, whatever you feel or, you know, molding clay into something or dancing, to express this, this outrage that exists inside of you, you know, again, our bodies are so attuned to what's going on in our emotional world. And by giving it form we're giving it you know, a way out, essentially, hmm,

Katie: 35:43

I love that.

Amy: 35:44

I love that. I love that, that that. I think I when I when I read that I was thinking about I grew up dancing, and I'm a dancer, and I was thinking about, I haven't done it in a while. But I used to, like, kind of go somewhere and dance just to like, I don't know, be free. And then also, I think with music, if you're in a bad mood, I mean, I think that's like the like yesterday, I was jamming out my car to good music and like that feeling can just put you into such a different state. So like, I think music is such a key. Like, I don't know, it can change your mindset so quickly, I think.

Katie: 36:18

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And self expression. Also, just I think that that piece is really great. I'm trying to get my kids to be well Madeline's, like really into art, my older ones. I'm trying to get her to paint more and everything. I think that's, I can't paint to save my life. So or draw or anything. So I'd have to find your own expression. But I love that. And then you also use energy medicine, which I'm super curious, because we our episode that has just aired this week is is energy healing. It's with a Reiki Master. Is that what you're speaking to similar stuff?

Sophia: 36:54

Absolutely, yeah, Reiki is one form of energy healing, and I love being inclusive of all of the modalities that can really help us. And again, emotions also express themselves as energy that courses through our body. And, you know, we find when we again, become aware of our body, or so much of that, you know, there are blockages there are blockages in that energy, there are traumatic things that have happened to us where energy can no longer flow. And so when we tune into that, and you know, apply, you know, certain modalities or have energy medicine to complement certain modalities, it can really be wonderful. Yeah, and I firmly believe that, you know, energy medicine, along with other things can be really a really great tool to help people become empowered in their ability to heal and their ability to, you know, improve the course of their lives.

Amy: 37:42

What's another form of energy medicine, like we know Reiki because we just interviewed someone about it. But what's another example of that?

Sophia: 37:50

That's a good question. Um, there are different terms for energy, you know, tea and prana, and different traditions, as far as energy healing modalities. I know back in the day, I was trained in, for example, ancestral healing, that's another you know, term that practitioners might use. That one, you know, wasn't hands on. Reiki tends to be hands on or, or hands off, but hands is where the energy comes through. That one is more of a Mind's Eye imagined process. Yeah, so ancestral healing is another I'm sure there are many, many more. But yeah, that's just another example.

Katie: 38:31

I think it's really beautiful, how you're inclusive of, of all of this. I mean, it's kind of like Eastern meats, Western meat, you know, the energy healing piece, I'm sure there's a lot of doctors that maybe turn their nose up at it, because it's, you know, maybe like a little mystical, and it's very east Eastern driven and everything. So I think it's, it's just, it's super cool. I mean, it's, you know, it's like the happiness doctor, you can kind of bring it all to the table. I love it. So, you have also written a book, tell us about the happiness journal, because I feel like I could use this what tell us what it is.

Sophia: 39:11

The happiest journal is my second book, actually. It's a book that I wanted to write for a really long time, there are, you know, 52 topics 52 weeks different topic each week in a facet of true happiness, something that we know through practice and life experience and research to predict happiness and the questions are deep. I'm a deep lady. So the questions really get you to become introspective and really think and look inside and say, okay, you know, how can I bring this into my life if I'm going to be intentional about creating true happiness in my life? I need to start making choices to support that right. And so the questions will help you to discover some of those things that you can start doing and you know, you don't have to do all 52 of them, right. It's a journey just like everything else. You can choose the ones that speak to you right now. Oh, and it can be a book that you use for a long time to come. But yeah, I believe strongly in the value of questions. And that's how I actually do a lot of my therapeutic coaching is, you know, guidance through questions, because you are the leader of your own life, you know, I can have a sense of where we're going, and I know where I'd like you to be. But at the end of the day, it's not about me, it's about you and your life, right? And so asking the right questions at the right time is incredibly powerful. And in this case, you have a book where you can just sit down and do it on your own, you know, you

Amy: 40:33

know, it's like an actual journal, you can write in in prompt, that's, I love that I love like an interactive journal book like that. That's nice. I think everyone could use that. It's, we talked about gratitude journaling a lot. So that's like the good, good way to do it. Right, gratitude and answering questions through that book. So thanks for sharing that. What was your first book about?

Sophia: 40:52

You're gonna love this, it was the five minute gratitude journal. Amazing. Yeah. And that people love that one, because there are prompts you know, so you're not sitting there sort of thinking of a list of things that I'm happy for, which actually sometimes turns people into a less positive emotional state because they can't find something they're grateful for. So we have prompts, which really invites people into that experience of gratitude. And it is meant to really be a five minute practice, right? All the things that we talk about aren't meant to turn your world upside down and make it really hard for you. Change doesn't happen when it feels hard. So the idea is really to make things feel manageable, and actionable and practical and simple. And that's really what this book was designed for. You know,

Katie: 41:35

I love that because we have so many people talk about their gratitude practice. So many of our guests that come on, and I have been wanting to start it, but there is something a little daunting about it. Like what you just said like so all you do it first thing in the morning, and I gotta think through and so some days, it's like very it comes to me, but some days, I'm like, tired and groggy. And, and I'm not, you know, I maybe I'm not feeling super positive just yet. So then so then I feel stressed and pressure that I'm not. So it just doesn't pan out. You know what I mean?

Amy: 42:05

So overwhelming. Yeah,

Katie: 42:06

it's Yeah, so I don't know, I need I feel like if I had that it would be a tool, I would really, really use that help just to help me get into the habit of it, which we know the power behind it. I mean, I've heard so many people say when you start your day off with a gratitude journal just like changes the entire tone of your day. So yeah, I love that. And some

Amy: 42:26

people, I was just listening to a podcast recently, and someone was saying that they practice gratitude every morning, but they just like, they don't even write, they get up. And it's like, they're still in bed. And they just think about five things like right away could be small things. I woke up today, I, you know, I'm breathing, I whatever. But that really struck me too. Because sometimes, like I'll sit in bed, and it's just like, that's a good thing to do really quickly to just like five things as soon as you get up and you don't write them down. But I think writing is more helpful, because it's like, you're actually I just when you do the written word, I think it is probably more powerful. But on days that you don't, you could just think about it. I agree. Yeah, that's

Sophia: 43:02

a great alternative. Amen.

Katie: 43:04

Great. All right. So we touched a bit on how our listeners can find you earlier, but I just want to say exactly, your, your website and everything. So because I'm sure people are going to want to reach out to you for your coaching programs. And also, we should mention you do group coaching as well, right?

Sophia: 43:20

Absolutely, yes, I have a four phase group coaching program that takes you through the deep, but very practical process of learning what it takes to really, you know, heal yourself emotionally. So through four phases, you know, you're really taken through the process of healing, and you have the online work to support you. And then we have group meetings to support you and even some one on one one on one sessions with me as well.

Katie: 43:48

That's, that's fantastic. And the website is

Sophia: 43:52

the happiness doctor.com

Katie: 43:54

Can't forget that one. That's an easy one to remember. All right, so why don't we do our rap session? We have a couple of fun questions for you. So I want to know, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Sophia: 44:10

Alright, so this one's gonna sound a little cheesy, but it's very apropos given what we just talked about. But I do acknowledge that it's probably a little cheesy and a little corny. But I will say that it's gratitude. And the reason I say that is because, you know, I have a toolbox a really big toolbox of happiness hacks, right? And at the end of the day, I know for myself that if I can just invite gratitude into this moment, and really feel it not just write it down, not just you know, pretend that you know but really feel it. I have an instant smile. I have an instant smile. And you know, if there was any beauty hack at all available, I think smiling is it everyone looks beautiful when they smile, so I'm gonna be cheesy and I'm gonna go with that.

Amy: 44:53

But that is it all I know. I love it. That's

Katie: 44:56

such a good one. Yeah, smiling for sure. That's and it's contagious. till the smile is always contagious. Do you your gratitude moments do? Are they just like, do you do them throughout the day? Or is it like, you know, like one where you sit down and you go through the whole thing like we're discussing? Are they like little blips that you do throughout the day?

Sophia: 45:13

Oh, great question, Katie. So, I usually do, you know, the actual written journaling in the morning, and then I do sporadically throughout the day day, kind of, like Amy alluded to earlier, you know, I'll have spontaneous moments of gratitude. You know, for something that's happening right now, and again, I think I've just trained my brain a little bit to to notice those things. So yes, also spontaneously throughout the day, just feeling and noticing without any, you know, writing or anything like that. That's cool.

Katie: 45:40

Yeah. You heard that from the happiness Doctor herself. That's a genius one. All right, this next one we call our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dry it off. And Uber just alerted you. They are five minutes away. What are you going to do to get in that Uber on time? Like, what are your holy grails, your go twos? What do you do?

Sophia: 45:58

I love that question. First, I'm going to calm my nervous system, because that feels really stressful. And then I'm going to put on something really comfy for me, the fabric that I'm wearing above and beyond the brands or anything, you know, for me just makes or breaks how I feel when I actually get out into the world. So I'm going to put on something really comfy that feels good on my skin. I'm going to put on some concealer, and maybe a little bit of mascara. And well actually before that I should probably hydrate so hydrate my face a little maybe take a sip of water and then apply concealer and some mascara and head out the door. Yeah, just a little bit. I'm a fan of the natural look. And it works where I live. So yeah, five minutes is doable.

Katie: 46:41

Nice. Nice. That's good. I like the fabric one. That's the first time we've gotten that about what you put on your body.

Amy: 46:46

Yeah. And it's funny. I feel like I do that too. But I never thought about it that way. But I always love like cozy and things that like feel really good. And yeah, it's not a good feeling to be uncomfortable on what you're wearing. I totally agree with that. Good one.

Katie: 47:00

Amy, one chick last one.

Amy: 47:01

Okay, and how do you maintain your daily nirvana? Which is sort of captured? But any other thoughts to that?

Sophia: 47:08

Hmm, that's a great question. I think just to, you know, consistent practice of being aware of what's going on inside, right and trying not to fool myself, right? Because we there are ways that we fool ourselves into thinking that we're okay. You know, we put on fake smiles and we go out into the world pretending we're okay. So that other people don't think there's anything going on. And we do that with ourselves too. Right? Oh, everything's okay. I'm still getting everything done. But really, yeah, are you okay? So I try to, I try to have a BS meter with myself, you know, operating throughout the day where, you know, I just check in regularly and say, okay, you know, what, like, what's going on right now? What parts of Europe? Is there anything you need? Is there any part of you that needs a little bit of self compassion, because I feel like if we don't actually take a few moments to check in, we miss those opportunities to be there for ourselves. So yeah, for me, it's just periodically checking in, even if just once a day, but really knowing myself like, are letting myself know I'm here for you. Like, I got you. I'm here for you. Because, you know, you've heard it before, if we're not there for ourselves, and who else will be. But again, it takes some intention, it takes a little bit of a conscious practice of checking in.

Katie: 48:18

And you know what else, it also keeps you very authentic, because you're staying very true to yourself. And that, that authenticity, I just feel like it exudes right. I mean, which is what we all strive for, is to be very true to ourselves. So I really liked that one.

Amy: 48:34

Okay, so I have a quick product review slash something I'm loving right now. And if we're thinking about like a quick, favorite wellness or beauty hack, I would say this has been my one for the last two weeks. So I love like a good spray, like a like a toner spray, because like dry skin. So spraying things to make me feel hydrated always makes me feel good. So I was at Trader Joe's a couple of weeks ago, and I don't go there that much, because it's not near my house. But when I do go there, I like like to look at all the new things. And I happened to be looking in their beauty section and I found this Trader Joe's rosewater facial toner. And it's $5. And I have something similar from the brand Kopari that's $25 that I use all the time, but I ran out of it. So I was like, I'm just gonna try this and like see, but honestly, it's like the same thing. And it's $5 and it smells really good. It's just like a very light sound. And I just kind of I'm just spraying for everyone that's listening, spraying my face. And I keep it at my desk and I just kind of like sprayed or it's just like a little moment of nirvana. I have to say because it smells really good. And Katie's thinking smells really good. And I know it just makes me feel good. It's just like a quick refresher. Just it's it's great. So I love it. It's $5 and Trader Joe's who knew that event sold this kind of stuff, but I love it and it's great. So that's my little thing I'm loving this week and Dr. Sophia we always end with A mantra to set the tone for the listener. So the one that I think is very relevant to our conversation, is this. The energy or it's something that I found online. I don't know if it's a mantra or a quote, but I'll but I'll say it. It's the energy for 2022 is only do what feels genuinely right in your intuition and letting everything else go.

Katie: 50:22

I love that. That's great. Yeah, totally agree.

Amy: 50:25

That gave me that gave me some inspiration. And by the way, fun fact, I found it on Janet Jackson's Instagram feed. Oh, love it. Oh, even better, random, better. But it just resonated with me. So I wanted to share that with everybody. So thank you so much, Dr. Sophia, for being on everyone. Check out the happiness doctor on Instagram and her website. She's amazing. We'd love to have you back one day you just emanate happiness, and I feel like so good going into my day now. So thank you so much for being with us.

Sophia: 50:53

Oh, thank you for having me. Katie and Amy, I appreciate it.

Amy: 50:57

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 41 - Real Period Talk With Jenna Longoria, The Period Guru (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 41 Real Period Talk With Jenna Longoria, The Period Guru.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are super excited to introduce you to Jenna Longoria, aka the period guru. Jenna is a board certified functional nutrition practitioner specializing in women's hormones. She was listed by Huffington Post as one of the top 20 new health writers to follow in 2017. That's so cool. And her work has been featured in mind body green and BC the elephant journal. She's also an author. Her book is the period solution 28 Day hormone balancing guide. Through her virtual private practice, Jenna helps women reclaim their hormones and digestive health with a multidisciplinary approach combining functional medicine, nutrition and diagnostic lab testing and her results driven root cause program. She's a firm believer that the right diet and lifestyle can put any hormonal condition into remission. And I think that is super exciting. I just can't wait to hear all about it because it's gonna be so helpful for so many people. So welcome to the show. Jenna.

Jenna: 1:30

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on today, Katie. Thank you, Amy. Happy to talk about hormones, periods, and anything else that we're guided to discuss today. That's

Katie: 1:40

great. Well, we usually start our show with our nirvana of the week. So it's just a little moment that brought you joy. So I'm gonna I'm gonna kick it to Amy to let her get it started.

Amy: 1:51

Sure. Well, my Nirvana this week might be similar to Katie's because we had a baby birth in the family. So my cousin, Matt and his wife just had their first baby girl. And they we haven't met her yet, but they she was born, I guess, like last weekend. So it's just really cute to see them. You know, have a new little family. They had a little girl named Cora, Cece, for sure. And it was just really exciting. I'm excited to meet her. We'll probably meet her in the next few weeks. But they got married during COVID and just had the baby during COVID. So it's just interesting time. But yeah, it's just cute to see them with a newborn and all excited about parenthood. So that was my nirvana. And I'll pass it to you, Katie.

Katie: 2:39

Yeah, that's, I mean, definitely part of my nirvana. It's so great to have another little baby in the family. And, like maybe the last one for a long time until, like, grandkids, right? Until they have a second which hopefully they do, fingers crossed. But I also had a little moment of Nirvana this morning about an hour ago. I I'm just I'm feeling really great today, physically, mentally, just having a great day feeling like myself after being little under the weather for a while. And after I dropped my daughter off from preschool, I just jammed out to want my new favorite song in the car. I blasted as loud as I possibly could. I didn't care that people thought I was an absolute idiot in the, you know, waiting at the stoplight, and I just had a moment of euphoria, where I just felt the music and my body and my soul. And it just brought me so much joy and kind of you know, woke me up and started my day. So that was mine. What about you, Jenna?

Jenna: 3:30

Well, so for the week, right? Or is it today

Amy: 3:32

to be anything we any day? Yeah.

Jenna: 3:35

Well, I've you know, I've practiced in a yoga Sharla for the first time this Wednesday, so I practice Ashtanga Yoga in the mornings. And before locked down, it was like an everyday six day a week I would practice with my community every morning rain or shine six in the morning. And it was a little bit of soul crushing when all that closed during COVID. And so I just moved to Amsterdam. And this Wednesday, I finally found a new home Sharla. And I joined the program and I practiced and it was just the best feeling ever to unroll my mat and just practice with people and get all sweaty and leave and feel great. It says that the best way to start start the day for me personally. So that was I was really grateful for that to practice with people in the community.

Katie: 4:21

That's great and you're glowing. I can get that yoga glow. Well, I've never what is a Shahla? And you have to explain that to me, because I'm a yogi, but I don't know this one. Yeah, so

Jenna: 4:29

Sharla is like a home for yoga. So when like the yoga Scripture, the yoga by the Hatha Yoga predict kappa or yoga sutras by Patanjali they call it a Shahla. So it's like a home for yoga instead of a studio. It's like I guess the Sanskrit word yoga Shala.

Katie: 4:46

I love that. Okay. Very cool. All right. Well, let's get right into it because we have so much to talk about. We've got a few quickfire questions for you. First, let's just start out with the basics. How long have you been a functional nutritionist and And what were you doing before you became the fabulous period guru?

Jenna: 5:03

Yeah, oh my gosh, it was just such a crazy road that led me here. So I've been doing this for about eight years now. And I this is definitely not wasn't I didn't wake up when I was, you know, little and say, I'm gonna be the period guru and I grow up. But I actually originally was in grad school in Washington DC at American University, and I was an associate producer for a political radio show. And that was like my first life. And I had horrible period problems and hormone issues. And they eventually just got so bad. And, you know, they started when I was 14. So I really think our pain is our purpose, you know, I always had issues. But at 14, I was put on the birth control pill to mask the issues. And turns out, I have polycystic ovarian syndrome and endometriosis. And I was just kind of trying to stay on the birth control pill and just, you know, ignore my body. And then one day, I just had this Wake Up Calls, I need to take care of myself, and I want to, so I did before I quit grad school, before I quit my job in DC, I started to look into more into holistic, holistic modalities, got off the birth control pill. And then I realized that that's actually what I wanted to do, I wanted to share this with other females, because I knew that there was another way than just taking the birth control pill to solve every problem. And so I did that, and I went back to school, became a nutritionist and have devoted my life to helping other women balance or hormones.

Katie: 6:32

And you have been practicing as the period guru for how many years now,

Jenna: 6:36

you know, at first, I was just a nutritionist, and I just, you know, my, my business was healthier notions. And I just was kind of I saw, I just really, people were coming to me for the kind of common weight loss kind of thing. And I would always ask them about their periods. And one day, one of my clients lovingly and jokingly said, You're the period guru, you know, you always ask what are my period, and they should call you the period guru. And I was like, ah, that actually clicks, you know, so about, I guess that was about four years ago, now, I completely rebranded and changed my focus to just serving women. And more about hormone balance became the period guru, because I realized that, you know, first of all, weight loss is just a symptom of inflammation and as a symptom of an imbalance. So when I help my clients achieve hormone balance, fix their digestion issues, you know, optimize their gut, then weight loss is just a side effect. It's not something we're really focusing on.

Katie: 7:37

Yeah, that's, that's actually really interesting that you say that, because I've had a kind of a personal experience with that recently. But yes, okay. So so you, you touched on it a bit. So you have endometriosis and PCOS?

Jenna: 7:53

Correct? Yeah. How old are you? I'm one of the lucky winners, I get, I get

Katie: 7:57

the double right, of course, how long? When did you was that in your teens that you really

Jenna: 8:03

don't you know, I never got a diagnosis until I was in my 20s. Because when I was I started menstruating on 13. And then at 14, I was just having these horrendous periods. And a lot of, you know, those polycystic ovaries and the little over, you know, but they're not really sis. They're their little follicles and large follicles. But I was having that and the doctor put me on birth control pill, he's like this will fix it. He never gave me a diagnosis or anything like that. And so as a child, I was my hormones were cut off completely. And I had a lot of side effects from the birth control pill like I really reacted negatively to it, I gained weight, I became depressed, having crippling anxiety. Then at 15, I had to put me on Prozac because of that. And it turned out that I'm not a depressed person. Actually, as soon as I got off birth control pill a decade later, that kind of went away. And so you know, that's why when I got off the birth control pill, we were able to discover the real issue, because it silenced the symptom when I was on the birth control pill at 14 and got Yeah, okay, I didn't have painful periods anymore. I didn't have a period. So if you're on birth control, you don't have a period, you have a withdrawal bleed, so I wasn't having pain anymore. I wasn't having you know, those issues, but I was having tons of other side effects. So when I finally got off of it, we were able to realize, oh, wow, you have endometriosis. So they see knows that an average of 10 years they get a diagnosis and that's absolutely true, because I didn't get an official diagnosis until I was actually not until I was like 27. So more than 10 years. I knew I knew when I got off the birth control pill and then and started having painful periods. I'm like, I know I have to have endometriosis like and the only way you can get official diagnosis is through a laparoscopic procedures they have to cut you open and they have to look so you know, that's a lot of that that can cause scar tissue. That's a surgery you know, so not everybody wants to have that diagnostic tool done, but When I was on my honeymoon when I was, I think, yeah, so I yeah, my honeymoon, I had an ovarian cyst rupture and it was it ruptured around my it hemorrhage actually tore off a piece of my ovary. And I had to go to the hospital in Thailand and get an emergency surgery in there, they were like you're riddled with endometriosis. Wow. And I was like, That makes so much sense. I've already known this, but it confirms it. So yeah, you know, and that's what I took, really, I just knew that I had to figure this out. Because the only option I went back to the doctor, like we'll just get back on the pill. And it's kind of don't want to do that. There has to be another way right? Quick Fix It is in allopathic medicine. It's like if you haven't had kids, but you don't want to have kids yet and you have issues. They put you on the pill to fix it. If you can't get pregnant and you have issues, then they immediately send you to a fertility clinic or want to give you Clomid or Metformin or whatever. And then after you've had kids and you have issues, they just want to give you a hysterectomy. Like that's really the three top.

Katie: 11:03

That's why it's so true. Yeah, yeah. Western medicine, it's like that's let's just put a bandaid on instead of digging deeper and seeing what the root cause of it is, which hence, there you go. Root Cause program, I assume that's

Jenna: 11:16

because I was told that I would never cycle naturally and never ovulate naturally, I was told that I wouldn't be able to start a family without lots of drugs and interventions. I mean, I don't have kids yet, but I haven't tried. But I but I ovulate regularly every month, I have painful periods. For the most part, there's a few years that maybe might be a little bit painful. But I'll take that from my periods every single month of the year used to just put me in so much pain, pain medicine did nothing, I would get nauseous because there was so much pain, I thought I was gonna have to go to the emergency room. So yeah, like it's possible in all of this, which is diet, lifestyle changes, doing the right functional labs and supporting my body and giving it what it needs. So I can get back.

Amy: 11:59

That's what I was going to ask you. So you've been able to manage this all through what you were just saying diet, lifestyle labs, like, can you tell us a little bit more about that journey? Because Katie, and I will talk later, but Katie has an autoimmune and other things. And I have. So it's just interesting to hear, like how you kind of get there? And then we'll kind of take you through some of the experience that we've had.

Jenna: 12:23

Yeah. Well, you know, first of all, it's like Western medicine looks at everything in isolation. That's just how they're trained. And they're trained to diagnose, and it's just a different type of medicine. It's not bad, it's not good. It's just, it's good when it's used for when it when you need Western medicine, like if I was in a car crash, or when I had a surgery when my ovarian cyst ruptured, and I almost died because it tore off a chunk of my ovary. I am so glad I had a surgeon there that was trained, absolutely thrilled, like it saved my life. But for the most part, when we're talking about preventative care, or talking about nutrition and supporting our body before there's a disease before it becomes like the severe issue. Western medicine fails us, and especially women, we are, we are grossly underserved. In we are in the health industry. Like, If a man goes in and complains that his, you know, testes are hurting, or his you know, he can't have an a jet, you know, he can't get an erection, they're gonna, like run every single lab under the sun on him. They're gonna give him Viagra, which, you know, like, they're gonna just really take it seriously. But a woman comes in and she complains of painful periods like I did growing up and they're like, we'll just take the pill, or that's just part of being a woman, which actually, there was a research study showing they were measuring the pressure of women who are having a period cramps, versus the pressure on women when they were have contractions and labor. And I don't know the exact number, but it was something like, like 10 times more on these women's period, cramps who had endometriosis. So I have literally had clients who have told me that they would after they had kids, it confirmed that their worst period pain was worse than a contraction. There were like, my labor was nothing compared to my period pain. And so it's invalidated, you know, our pain is invalidated in the doctor's office. So there's that there's that like, you know, we're missing you know, we're not given the it's not given the attention it deserves going back to like what I did and how I supported my body is really just by kind of try stop going to the allopathic medicine. I'm always looking for something else. So insanity, the definition of insanity is trying to do the same thing, right, expecting a different outcome. So I was going to doctor to doctor and they're all telling you the same thing, and I was frustrated and I was like, Well, if I want Thai food, I'm not going to go to a pizza restaurant and get mad when they don't give me Thai food. You know, go to a Thai restaurant. So right If I was looking more into the functional world in which we look at systems and and in functional medicine, we're looking at all of your systems together, not in isolation, not like just the liver and the eyes and the ovaries and the hormones, we're looking at everything together and supporting that it's a mix of, you know, the right functional labs. So I find a lot of doctors, they don't test the right markers, they don't get adequate testing. insurance doesn't cover adequate testing. So there's no way going to your conventional doctor that you're going to really dive deep and really understand what's going on with it with your thyroid with your hormones, because the testing is really outdated. And then,

Amy: 15:39

and it's also just a moment in time. So like one day, you could have something but the next day you may not right, yeah, it's

Jenna: 15:47

true. And now I mean, there are some, there's that's a whole nother thing. A lot of doctors don't understand the the timing of hormone tests. So I'll have clients that come in, they're like, Oh, my doctor did all my panels and my progesterone is low. And I'm like that they tested your progesterone on day five, like, of course, you'd have an ovulated yet, like I don't understand, like there's there's a precise time to test certain hormones. And there's and there's a you know, so it's, and usually that that doesn't happen when you go to just a regular OB. And so with functional medicine, you test you use the right labs, you test it the right time, you test the right markers, and you look at everything in a hole, and then you're also supporting your body through nutrition. So a lot with hormones, I will say like especially polycystic ovarian syndrome, the number one thing you can do to make a difference is to change what you're eating, support your blood sugar levels, because insulin is a hormone and that's where it all starts. Insulin is a hormone. And if we have too much insulin for insulin resistance, then there are going to be big problems with the rest of our hormones. Because it influences cortisol and influences influences your sex hormones. And so what's up with women with polycystic ovarian syndrome, most of them are insulin resistant. So when we put them on a kind of, you know, a lower carb nutrition plan, and we support them with enough protein and fat, then their blood sugar balances and their symptoms go into remission. And so it really is about what you eat. And so supporting all of that, you know that and that's really what I did, you know, I just had to go I was like a detective and functional hellebore, detectives are looking at everything. And I will say I have not had one client who has come to me that has had a normal thyroid. Their doctors have said that they had their thyroid is fine. I have not had one client who sired was actually fine. The worst case scenario I had I had I had a client and she had been going to fertility, really like in Orange County. But one of the creme de la creme of fertility clinics, okay spent, I don't know how much money on how many rounds of IVF young she's only like 29. And she comes to me and she's like, none of it's working and toxic that you know, and so I'm like, we need a thyroid lab. And she's like, Well, my, you know, my doctor has run these labs. And I'm like, that's, you know, doesn't tell us anything. But then I did happen to look at one of it and it was her TSH, and it was like, the highest TSH level I know, I won't get too complicated and test markers that I've ever seen. And I was like your doctor has never asked for further thyroid testing after this. This TS I didn't want to alarm her. But I was like after this TSH, TSH reading, she was like never. And I was like, how many rounds? Have you heard of IVF? She's like three. She had never had a proper she had Hashimotos, you know, and I was like, we did more testing found out she had Hashimotos I'm like, No, I cannot that is a crime. They took her money, her husband's money, let them do all these rounds of IVs. But never gave her a simple thyroid test to find out that she had Hashimotos. And that's why she wasn't getting pregnant. So as soon as we fix that, literally the next month she got pregnant. Yeah, wow,

Katie: 18:42

that's amazing. I have Hashimotos as well. And it's the thyroid, I know how impactful it can be. And also so many of these doctors, they say that you're you're doing well, because your labs aren't maybe necessarily like in range, but not ideal and optimal. And I think that's also a big thing. Do you have you noticed that in your practice? Yeah,

Jenna: 19:01

I mean, I have definitely so I use functional ranges, not conventional ranges. Conventional ranges are the aggregate of like the standard American. So really what we want is functional, like right there in the sweet spot in the middle. And yeah, so most conventional doctors will use the conventional ranges, and then they won't, they won't test all the thyroid markers that we need. As I said, they usually just has TSH, which is a brain hormone. It doesn't tell us what's going on with the thyroid. Sometimes they'll test total for T four, but that's something that I never test was my clients. So in Hashimotos, you know, it's very common, it's on the rise. I have Hashimotos too. And you know, there's and there's also usually when you have one autoimmune condition you have more than one that it's like kind of this you know, and you know, polycystic ovarian syndrome, there's a lot of research out there pointing out that it could actually be an immune disease which is an autoimmune disease, which I I'm kind of think that is is right.

Amy: 19:55

Question for you on that. So like something like Hashimotos I know a lot other people that have that and they take, like medicine for it Synthroid or whatever, like, since you have Hashimotos, are you taking anything? Are you doing more of like your functional strategy and not needing to take those type of medicines?

Jenna: 20:13

Yeah. So here's the thing. I do think that it's over prescribed, I think medicine, I think thyroid medicine is over prescribed, and it's used as like a, you know, it's, it's just like, okay, takes off and fix all and now we're getting to the root cause why is your thyroid under functioning. So about 80% of the cases of hypothyroid is actually Hashimotos. The estimate and, and so that's a lot of, you know, so chances are, if you're listening to this and you have thyroid issues, you have a 80% chance that you have Hashimotos. I've seen people with Hashimotos, reverse or symptoms and not have to take thyroid medicine, I see it in my practice with my clients. But alternatively, I see it to where we reverse your symptoms, but they still have to take some thyroid medicine for I don't know how long because it is an autoimmune condition and their body's literally attacking their thyroid. And if their thyroid medicine actually works and that's winning, because there are some people who actually motos it, the thyroid medicine doesn't even work. And so I do take a little bit of thyroid medicine. You know, it's the only pharmaceutical I take but it's a glandular is bioidentical. And I'm just grateful that my body responds to it, and I, I, my blood levels i It doesn't even look like I have Hashimotos I have no antibodies, and

Amy: 21:22

I'm sure all the other things you're doing is contributing to that. So it's really like the best of both worlds in a way.

Jenna: 21:27

Yeah, it is. But every it is an eon like I'm grateful for it. And I would like one day, I'd like to get off of it. And I that's the end goal and working towards it. But I also accept the reality that that might not happen. And I'm just happy that it's here for me.

Katie: 21:41

And stable and stable. Yeah, yeah. My thyroid has been unstable at times. And now it's stable. And yeah, it's something to be very grateful for. Yeah, it's

Amy: 21:52

funny, Katie, because she knows how to read all the labs much better than me. And I had a physical one year was a couple years ago. And my thyroid was like a little bit increased. It wasn't bad, but it was like, increased from where it was. And I said to Katie, I'm like, Oh, the doctor said, it's fine. She's like, Yeah, might be, but you should ask for XYZ tests. And remember what what tested was Katie. And so I went back, and I asked for that test. And they ran it. And it looks really good. So I was thankful for that. But I wouldn't have even known as like a normal average person that goes the doctor to even even ask because the doctor says fine, but Katie, since she just is so deep, and knows this world much better than me. She was like reading my labs. And she's like, No, you should push on that. And I was so thankful that she knew that. But most people don't even know that. And so I think it's like, being an advocate for yourself. And if something doesn't feel right, don't always listen to the doctor, like keep going further.

Jenna: 22:42

Listen to your body.

Katie: 22:43

Do you teach your your clients that about self advocating? Oh, absolutely.

Jenna: 22:47

That's the part of the program. You know, when I work with my clients, like I always tell them, I'm not the gatekeeper to health. I'm just showing you the roadmap there. And so working with me, my program is a lot of that education based to to have the tools so that you can be your own best health advocate moving forward, learn how to interpret your labs, read your labs, and and also speak up for yourself. Like, I love it when my clients are like, if I you know, say, okay, I'd like you to do this, but why? Why am I doing this? And I read something about this. I don't get offended. And like, why are you just listening to me? I told you, this is what you should do. And you should just, you know, that's what a doctor sometimes does. You know, I'm always like, I'm so glad you researched that. And you have questions, and you're advocating for yourself, you should always advocate for yourself like that in any with any healthcare practitioner. And so yeah, I mean, that's, that's part of it. And I think that's one of the things that is wrong with the healthcare system is we go to the doctor and we treat them like gods like everything they say, is gold, the golden rule and goes is like the truth. You know, a lot of times we know, all the time we know our bodies better than they do.

Katie: 23:49

Yeah, of course. It's interesting. My mom, she worked in as a surgical nurse worked with doctors her whole life. And she'll always say to me, they're also just humans like that, you know, they you have to remember that what they say is it you have to take it with a grain of salt. Yeah, not always. Yeah. So I want to get into a little bit some of the symptoms that the listeners should look out for. Be, you know, if someone's listening, and it's all sounding very familiar to them, what would be some things to watch out for that would lead them to, you know, figuring out if they have endometriosis or PCOS or just

Amy: 24:25

hormonal hormonal issues in general, right?

Jenna: 24:28

Yeah. Well, I think the first step is, you know, being aware of your menstrual cycle and tracking your period, you're in your menstrual cycle. You know, your menstrual cycle is a whole event. So it's anywhere from 25 to 35 days, that's a healthy menstrual cycle. You should be bleeding anywhere from three to seven days. That's a healthy period. You shouldn't lose more than 80 milliliters of blood. You shouldn't lose less than 25 milliliters of blood. You shouldn't have an app your charting, ideally even better, you're tracking ovulation even if you're not trying to get pregnant, tracking ovulate. To see if you are ovulating. And then you know a lot of times we're tracking your ovulation, you're tracking your basal body temperature that gives insight into your metabolism. So if you start having really low temps that could signify an adrenal or thyroid issue. So it's a free diagnostic tool that you have every month. And it's free. And, you know, by doing that, you know, if something's off, something goes off one month, that's not a big deal. It's normal to have one or two, you know, weird periods a year. But if you're having it like three months in a row, then that's an issue and you should get some heart your hormones tested, investigate work with a practitioner. And so that would be the My First I'd say the first step is to look at your period because expect, you know, like women with polycystic ovarian syndrome, they might have two periods a year, three periods a year. So that's a really big sign. If you're having irregular periods. And women have endometriosis. You can have period pain all day, every day of the menstrual cycle. It doesn't just have to be on your period. So noting down when you're having this pain and symptoms and sensations.

Katie: 26:00

Are there other hormonal conditions that you focus on? What about like, like perimenopause and things like that. Do you work with women in that realm also?

Jenna: 26:11

Yeah, I mean, I always say perimenopause is a natural state and more than a condition like that's just a natural phase of life. Menopause is a natural phase of life. But there are some women who have really bad transitions. Their perimenopause symptoms are awful. But it doesn't have to be that way. And so I do work with women going through perimenopause. But ideally, the those are the women who never address the period and hormone issues at a younger age. And that's why they're having really bad, perimenopause. Oh, that's interesting. So the earlier you address these period issues, hormone issues, the more smoother your transition through perimenopause and menopause is going to be I say, because it is the root cause of these issues is not going away, you can mask it with birth control, you can mask it with whatever you know, but it's gonna be there. Later, at some point, you're gonna have to deal with it. Whether it be when you're trying to get pregnant or whether it be during menopause, you know, perimenopause or menopause.

Amy: 27:04

Our listeners know this, and I've talked about it a little bit, but I have a stapler migraines, which started to appear for me about five years ago, or so. Which is when I really started tracking my periods. But I am still convinced and have told all of my doctors, that it's definitely related to hormones, because I noticed that, I mean, I haven't had symptoms in a long time, you know, knock on wood, unfortunately. But when I have had those symptoms, they're more dramatic, right before I'm about to get my period, like, I get that dizzy, sort of, like vertigo feeling and all of that. Typically, before I get my period, and it doesn't, it doesn't go away after it's still, but it's much less, but it's much more intensive. So I kept asking, like, can you test and they tested my hormones,

Jenna: 27:46

everything's fine, but then they tested your hormones, so like,

Amy: 27:50

everything was fine. So then I went to functional like more integrated doctor, and he tested my hormones within a specific timeframe, I can't remember if whatever was passed my period or before May have like 14 or 17 days, whatever it was, and then actually checked out at the time. Pretty good. So that was good. But I still know that it's related to some sort of hormonal,

Jenna: 28:15

yeah, the he or she wouldn't have been able to figure it out the blood test, I see that I see that hormone issue with headaches related to the hormone cycle all the time. But a blood test isn't going to show the show the way.

Amy: 28:26

So how to test is very sad on a blood test.

Jenna: 28:29

I use a dried urine test with my clients at a specific time of the cycle. And it shows how the hormones are breaking down. metabolizing or not the different pathways shows the different types of estrogen because there's more than just one. And blood tests just shows like really static.

Katie: 28:46

Is that the Dutch test? Yeah, yes. Okay. I've heard of that.

Jenna: 28:50

That will show especially with people that have a lot of migraines around menstruation and ovulation, that Dutch test will is really needed to show the estrogen detox pathways to because there's a lot of correlation between estrogen issues histamine and liver function. But it's a very common, you know, it's a very common pattern I see. Yeah, and headaches, and they're awful. I mean, it's just awful. I'm sorry. Like, it's just like,

Amy: 29:18

Yeah, well, I'm on medication for the vestibular migraines, but I would like to get off of it. Yeah. So it's, like, you know, from a lifestyle standpoint, I think I'm doing all the right things but who knows, I should probably talk to you offline offline and figuring that out. But I would like to get to a point where weaned off of it because I don't obviously want to be on something forever, but it does help with the vertigo symptoms, which are like literally if you have them you can't function so ya know, it's it is helpful, but I would like to get to a point where I'm like, really understanding because I do track my period like I've always had. I mean, my periods have always been regular, but I would say they're between like 35 and 40 days, my whole life so I started tracking everything another Oh, interesting, slash random related thing I think was when I started getting this vestibular migraines five years ago, I also around that time was spotting, which I'd never spotted before. So I feel like it was all related. I'm not anymore. And yeah, all kind of going away. I mean, a lot of it, I think too was like stress and different things, who knows, but it's just really interesting. So that's when, like, my eyes opened up about this whole field, which I don't know much about. But I ever since then I've been tracking my period, I have an app that like tracks, the grades and all of those things, but it clearly I need to learn more. And I'm sure our listeners do too, because you sort of like, it is great that we do have a free diagnostic tool, our period we know if we're getting it every month, we know how we're feeling. And that's like your North Star, you know, like, Okay, I'm like a little bit moody, because I know I'm getting out of here, but it's like your way to track everything. But other than that, it's like, it's hard to go deep if you're if you're not really seeking out the right kind of help,

Jenna: 30:53

kid it's so great that you even knew and it was great that you even had the awareness that you're like, Oh, I these these headaches become worse right before my period. I mean, that's huge that you've got that awareness.

Amy: 31:04

And the funny thing was back to your point about the birth controls when this was first happening I did get a lot of different tests done and spoke to a million different doctors if but my OB was like Yeah, go on birth control it'll it'll it'll help and I didn't give me the prescription but I never did because I was like I don't want to go on birth control so I just you know, trying to figure out you know, other ways but you're right it's that's like the catch all Oh, just go on this and I will be fine.

Katie: 31:28

Yeah, it's true that my quick fix was surgery. They I had such horrible periods after pregnancy that they suggested hysterectomy and I was finished with having kids and I also had other issues from having babies like so this is actually the first time I've mentioned this on the show. So that's that was the route that I went with and I was perfectly okay with it. It took me a long time to come to terms with it. But knowing I was finished having children and just being able to remove some symptoms, I have so many symptoms from my two autoimmune diseases to be able to have my hormonal cycle just a little bit more balanced out. It it was really a great move for myself personally, but that's it's very drastic and evasive and someone that isn't ready for that and that's their suggestion and their only fix is really scary and very sad. And you know there are repercussions. I have horrible scar tissue pain that I get that can be debilitating in my abdomen. But for me personally it was the right thing. I asked

Jenna: 32:29

them castor oil packs where you're wearing those like three or four nights a week. This what is it castor oil packs, they QUEEN OF THRONES makes them these like ready made castor oil packs and it's castor oil and you put it on this like sheepskin, like Pat like a wrap you know and you put it on and you wear it at night over your you can wear over your liver or your ovaries and your uterus and it breaks up scar tissue soil gets through castor oil goes through all the layers of your skin and it actually breaks up the scar tissue and increases blood flow to your to that area.

Katie: 33:04

That's amazing. Thank you that is the

Jenna: 33:08

scar tissue pain, I would definitely get some castor oil packs. And

Amy: 33:11

you know you mentioned earlier and I totally forgot you were talking about your ovarian cysts. And I have one when I was younger too, which I always knew about because they you know, caught it during a regular visit. And I remember them saying when you get pregnant, you'll see that it'll probably get better bigger and it'll fill with liquids. So when I first got pregnant with my first child, they monitored it the whole time and it got like it was like tiny and I got huge like to the size of like a grapefruit. So I actually had it drained during my pregnancy. And it was literally like two saline bags of fluid of what was filled right back up. And it and it ruptured, like late into my pregnancy. And speaking of the pain to your point, it was awful. And I was pregnant. It felt literally like I got stabbed in the side, but it ruptured and I was so worried about it rupturing my whole pregnancy because like they said that could have been a possibility ruptured, it was brutal, but then it went away. And for my second I didn't have any pain like I always had this dual pain in my right side with my first child or with my second and have any of it because it ruptured. So it's just so interesting how these things just come and go. I mean, again, I was aware of it, but if I wasn't I wouldn't have known what was going on.

Jenna: 34:23

And it's actually really common for women of childbearing age to have a cyst once every few years or something like that. Yeah, it's like a what we call functional cyst. It's very common and then they can rupture with your period. You know, a lot of doctors will say just get on the birth control pill to shrink it but you know, a lot of times they just go away with your period when you start treating and my case it I was one of 1% of women where the the cysts not only ruptured but it went into torsion around my ovary and took off a chunk of my ovary that only happens to one Yeah, that was like that I've had I've had other cysts burst before rupture. Having gone torsion was like having 1000 cyst rupture at the

Amy: 35:04

same time. I don't even know. And that's so scary. You weren't even in this country.

Jenna: 35:08

No, it was like so scary. My husband like rushed me to the hospital like an hour away to like the private hospital in Chiang Mai. And it was, you know, and there was there's, there's really good health care outside the US a lot of people think that there's not but actually just better and cheaper. Yeah. And so yeah, I was fine. But yeah, I mean, so it is so you know, there's so much but I'm, you know, the pain of the of the ovarian cyst. And then doctors, they'll say, get on birth control pill and all this stuff. And it's like, I don't under like the birth control pill to them. It's just like, let's be nice. And let's be easy. You know, I'm just wondering if they should just have a recording doctors, here's a prescription for the birth control pill, like no matter how serious, they really need the person they're moving, we could just have like an avatar, birth control, birth control,

Amy: 35:53

right? Right, just hitting the button to your point like adapters, whether it's an OB or your regular doctor, whatever, no one is asking about your period, or they do it to check the box, but they're not really going into the root knows of all of these things. They only

Jenna: 36:06

care if you're trying to have a baby, right? Yeah, baby. Then they give they care so much. They want to give Oh, okay, fertility panel, all this stuff. It's like, so I, you know, so I, you know, I remember before I could run my own labs, when I was first kind of starting out, now I can get all my blood work and all my labs and stuff. I wanted to get a full hormone panel, and I went to the doctor, and they're like, why do you want this? And I was like, because I'm gonna check my hormones. Well, no, we can't give you that I go. And then I just put on my thinking cap, and I go, I'm trying to get pregnant. And they're like, Oh, sure. So Oh, yeah. I'm like, you shouldn't have to be trying to get pregnant to find out what's going on with your hormones. It's not like we own our health only matters when we're ready to host a child. Like, it's just, it's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Amy: 36:56

What are your thoughts on these home? Like, I know, there's a bunch of companies like Everly well, that that do different sort of home tests for hormones. Is that because I think like being able to take it into your own responsibility is so empowering, like to be able to just have blood every month and not have to ask your doctor and have to rationalize it like are those? Would you recommend those home sorts of tests? Or what do you think about

Jenna: 37:22

that? Yeah. Okay. So first of all, this is kind of a long winded answer. But this is the best, like a three pronged answer. But yeah, first of all, I feel like the for like thyroid, I think that's great. I like let's get checked for that they have a thyroid test. You know, that's something that every six months, we should be checking our thyroid, because it can change overnight. So every six months, check your thyroid, if you have Hashimotos, maybe every four months. It's so easy. It's like, you know, you can order it online, you take it at home, you don't have to faff about with your doctor and be like, I need the full thyroid panel. But no, all you need is TSH, no, I would like to full thyroid panel. Now now TSH, and you don't have to like hassle and our you know, just like beg and plead with your doctor. And so for blood type thyroid as best as blood. So that's why I think that's great. Now maybe like a full thyroid panel, you know, through letsgetchecked or something like that, or everlywell once a year is great, you know, but what we really want to be testing besides the thyroid, what we really want to be testing more than the hormones is our gut. So I think everybody really wants to test the hormones. But hormones is really it's important to do every once in a while. But the gut is really something that that most people never test their gut. And you can't have healthy hormones without a healthy gut. That's why with my clients, I always test the gut. First we do a comprehensive gi you know, stool test, the GI map, because we have to fix the gut infections before you'll ever have a healthy thyroid or hormones and, and so that's what I would say would be the most important and then it is and then once you get everything in checked, those tests are very empowering to just monitor your own health. And check in with those and do those. That's so how do you do that?

Amy: 39:03

How do you how do you test your gut? I don't think I've ever done that.

Jenna: 39:06

Yeah, so it's um, it's a stool test that you take at home. Okay, they gave you all the instructions and stuff. It's not the most glamorous but it's

Amy: 39:16

what's the what's the site or product that does that?

Jenna: 39:20

Well, they don't you have to have a you have to have a license to order it. You have to go through a practitioner. Okay, so it's not like I really well in all of

Amy: 39:26

us, we can do a blast. So you have to go to a doctor and you ask for what we are Yeah, it doesn't

Jenna: 39:31

have to be a doctor. It can be someone like me a nutritionist or dietician a functional dietitian or you as far as I know I don't think allopathic doctors run this type of you know, usually if they do anything with the gut they do like they look for structural issues, you know for polyps and things like that and they don't or maybe they run sometimes for like certain parasites but they don't do a comprehensive gi essay which is like this looking your immune system function your bacteria levels, whether you if you have a gluten sensitive tivity is looking at for parasites and h pylori and virus viruses. And it's just

Amy: 40:06

so you would go to a functional doctor or nutritionist and ask for a comprehensive gi function. I'm like writing it down because I,

Jenna: 40:13

you know, honestly, a good a good, a good way to determine if if the practitioner is, is good, basically, is it? That's what they're offering? Yeah, that's where they want to start. I had

Amy: 40:27

no one's either, like, ever tested that on me,

Katie: 40:29

right? Well, most. So I went to a GI gastroenterologist, and it was, you know, like, during the height of the pandemic, the summer and I had horrible SIBO. And of course, it took me a long time to figure out what SIBO was, and I was doing all this research trying to figure out if I could get some answers and found out that that's what it was. It wasn't through a doctor that I got that diagnosis, but she, the only tests they did for me was a colonoscopy. And then she said we can we can attempt to this right, Faxon. And we did that. And then it revealed a candida overgrowth that she refused to even acknowledge as real. So they they will do nothing. But to your point what you were saying they it's just like it's for polyps, it's, you know, yeah, it's

Jenna: 41:12

not like pathology, think about it, they're looking for cancer, they're looking for structural issues. And that's great. And it's great to have those routine colonoscopies after you get a certain age. But when we have these people having heartburn and then all the doctor wants to give them is protein pump inhibitors, which suppress your stomach acid, which is the worst thing you could possibly be doing for someone, then they get addicted to it. And they've been taking it their whole life and they have osteoporosis and all these issues later down the line. Why don't we test their gut and just figure it out? You know, it's just like, it's, it's it's so easy. You know, I've had I've I remember this 135 year old, a friend of a friend and he was like, had all these colonoscopies and all these issues because he had such bad heartburn and IBS. And the doctors kept on saying there's nothing wrong, there's nothing wrong, you know, nothing. And I'm like, why don't it just stool tests like, there is something wrong if you're complaining of this, and they were like, well just take Prozac or take these, you know, what are the you know, what are those protein pump inhibitors? Like the standard drugs that Zyrtec No, not Zyrtec allergy. What's the one that demand tax? Zantac? Yes. And I mean, just like that is just such lazy medicine. It's like, let's just silence a symptom and not figure out what is going on. And so the gut is really the best place to start. And when you have a Candida, Candida is like the third tier that's like that's a side effect of bacteria and balances, possible parasitic infections. And it's not where you you start treating somebody's with the Candida, because if you just treat the Candida that superficial, it's going to grow right back, if you don't get rid of the other imbalances in the gut.

Katie: 42:40

That's interesting, because that's me, that's my life. I have I have repeated candida overgrowth, and yeah, fluconazole it literally once a week, which to manage it, it's like it's and also with diet diet does help

Jenna: 42:52

you exactly. But you can be doing all the right things and be frustrated, and do all the right things and do a Candida diet or all these things, but it's not going to, you're going to hit a plateau, you're never going to go right or if you don't investigate the other issues.

Katie: 43:05

So that that is a great segue into what you do. Because I would love to hear a bit about your root cause program and your coaching that you do so the listener can, can reach out to you.

Jenna: 43:16

Oh, yeah, well, I you know, I love it. I love working with women in this capacity. And it's a form of program. So, you know, I found over a lot of trial and error. And after working with hundreds of clients that you can't amazon prime your health, unfortunately, everyone wants, you know, like, a quick fix, and I still get messages Oh, do you can you just do a one session, I just don't do that. Because it's unrealistic on both practitioner and patient to think that you can get these results when you've been having these health issues for years. Some of these women decades coming to me, we can't fix this in one session. And I want people leaving my program happy. And so that takes about three to four months. And we do the GI map, which is the gut test that we talked about, we do the Dutch hormone test, which is the hormone test I discussed. And we have five sessions over the course of these four months. And we we tackle every system in the body, you know, the liver neurotransmitters, you know, our estrogen metabolism, we look at our blood sugar, you know, diet, all of these things and support the detox pathways and look at everything in unison and at the same time. They're being empowered themselves because they're learning this new language. They're learning this body literacy. They're learning how to be advocates for their health and understanding what's going on. Maybe learning some propensities that their body has towards certain illnesses or certain you know things so that they can be proactive and take care of themselves and then also just know their bodies better, you know, so to continue out of advocating for themselves so they can be their own health advocates because no one can give you back your health if someone's advertising like Hey, I mean, that's not possible. no doctor, no nutritionist no one can give you your health. Do you have to do that yourself? We're just kind of it's just a roadmap, and we're helping you get there. And we're supporting you. And we're able to

Amy: 45:06

test and proactive versus like reactive based on something terrible that could Yeah, right. Yeah. So I have a question. So you do that over the four months, and you evaluate and then based on like, all of the data and all the conversations, you then what do you prescribe someone like a program? Like What? What? Yeah, what happens after that?

Jenna: 45:26

So well, in the four months working together, it's it's, you know, we I first start off with like, an initial health session, and we make some foundational, you know, recommendations with diet and exercise, and with maybe some targeted supplements or herbs, which I use therapeutically in my practice, because that's another thing I see a lot of naturopaths. And I see a lot of nutritionists out there, just throwing supplements that people like, that's also some take a probiotic. Yeah. And like that, and that symptom care relief to just take all the supplements just as much as a doctor is prescribing all these pharmaceuticals. So it's like, kind of same, same but different. And so, you know, so therapeutically, you know, maybe I'll be like, for 60 days, you need to take this supplement for this, for what we found on this test, like XYZ, we're going to take this supplement for 60 days, here's why. And then we go over the gut testing in a second session, and we I design a protocol for them. And they and I help support them over the GI protocol, we have a follow up session to see how things are going. The fourth session, that's when we go into the hormones, because that's fine tuning as much as everyone wants to do the hormones first interest, everyone's always so excited about the hormones, it's really the last place to start. That's we're really fine tuning things there. And and then we have a follow up after that. And then generally, you know, I really pride myself in not having repeat customers, because we're able to get to the root cause. So they'd love to check in with me, I have my clients check in like once or twice a year just to see and go over their their lap, you know, to retest and just see how things are going or give them some support. But really, you know, my goal is to have them have their own wings to fly and just kind of be able to advocate for themselves moving forward.

Amy: 47:03

Yeah, this is so eye opening, I need to do this program with you. Because I've never really looked into my guide, because I really haven't. I don't know, I just never thought about it. Like to your point. It was always like, Oh, the hormones, the headaches and the this and that. But it could be my God, who knows. I mean, I definitely don't have a regular

Jenna: 47:22

if you're having headaches too. I was, that was my first.

Amy: 47:25

And I'm not I've never been like regular as you would say in that department. So

Jenna: 47:30

and you know, to be honest, it's not just you, it's every human being on the planet. So it's a gut test at some point, because we're bombarded with pharmaceuticals and our water and our drinking water. We've taken antibiotics growing up, you know, birth control, pollution, pesticides, toxins, or cosmetics. I mean, like our liver needs a tune up. I mean, yeah, and liberty to tuna, you don't need to tune up.

Amy: 47:52

I think that's really important for our listeners, too, because I think you hear everywhere, that health, gut health, but I actually don't really know what that means. Like, I didn't really know that this test you're talking about exists where they can actually where you can really look deeper into what that means. Because you hear things like gut health and take this versus like doing these tests to figure out what you actually need. So I think that's something that everyone should be looking into, including myself. I have a question for you. Just on a side note, when we're talking about hormones, period, gut health. So I wasn't on birth control. I never took the birth control that the OB wanted me to, I ended up and this is not this wasn't for my hormones, but really just for birth control, getting an IUD, which is something I wanted since my second kid and I just like never did it. And I did it. Maybe like a year ago. Do you think that that's like, what are your thoughts on that? I know, like the hormones are less than whatever. But it's a little I was saying this to Katie, it's a little hard to track your period because I can kind of tell like I'm in like, what's week I'm in just based on how I feel. But you don't really have that definitive because there's nothing you don't really get your period. You just get like a wipe of something and you're like, Oh, I guess that's my period, but it's a little bit harder to track. So kind of what are your thoughts there and like, how does that relate to getting this gut test and all of that?

Jenna: 49:13

Yeah, so the IUD. Do you have a copper IUD Do you have it? You have the hormone like the Skyler that Kaylee

Amy: 49:21

I forgot what it Mirena it's not Mirena, but it's like a newer version of that

Jenna: 49:24

the key is it the Kaylee Kaylee asked whether

Amy: 49:27

or not I actually have it anyway. Just quick

Jenna: 49:29

what do you do what did your headache start around then are both there were they already happening before though they

Amy: 49:33

were happening way before I just got this recently my headaches I've had probably for five years and then this like that just recently more so from like a birth control letter. That's what a

Jenna: 49:45

letter okay? They're always these like, you know, sweet girls names to make a noun so like, I know why. So first of all, having less hormones is still the same thing as having some hormones. It's like drinking half a cup of poison versus a full cup and Not saying birth control is hormones. Is that that hormones? Well, synthetic hormones are kind of, they're an endocrine disruptor. That's what they are. They're a hormone disruptor. And so it basically it's not like, they'll be like, this is a low hormone to make it sound better. It's the same thing.

Amy: 50:14

So you see in birth controls essentially the same well,

Jenna: 50:17

it, isn't it. The low dose pills and the low dose IUD. Yeah, same, the same way. Okay. And then and then the IUD is the other method doctors always used to say and still say today, which I don't understand how someone who went through eight years of education and then fellowship can still say this. That's because it's in the uterus. It's localized. It's localized hormones, it doesn't spread anywhere else in your life. That's

Amy: 50:42

what they told me. Exactly, I'd

Jenna: 50:43

say. So that's the biggest BS. And I've been saying this for a decade, and then actually a decade, like seven years. And finally we got validation. There was an article and some science journal that came out in December of 2021. That was say, Oh, we found out that the hormones are actually systemic, they spread systemically. And here's this MRI, this woman's breasts did prove it and yada yada yada. But women symptoms are being dismissed for so long. They were saying like, I'm having all these issues. I know, but the hormones are local and IUD. So they're not local. They spread. Yeah, it really is. Because like, let's it goes into your bloodstream, so they should know better because they're freaking doctors. They know how the body works. And so so it is, it is low, it is systemic in the body. Now I will like it's one thing I like about the IUD. I mean, I out of all of the birth control methods, one of the reasons one of the pros of the IUD is that you still ovulate or may ovulate. You know, a lot of women don't because of the inflammation from the IUD. But ovulation is really what we want to be doing ovulation is how we make progesterone. Progesterone is what we need for heart health, bone health, thyroid health, healthy, healthy mood. And when we don't ovulate, we don't make that. And so that's really important that we make that so with the IUD, you have a chance of ovulating. Even though you're not having a period you're not seeing blood, what you can do is you can track your cycle by taking your basal body temperature. And then when you and that's one of the fertility signs that we use in the fertility awareness method, which is my form of birth control that's hormone free. And I know after my temperature spiked and it's remained elevated for three days that I've ovulated I also observed my cervical fluid. So it didn't matter if I had a period or not, because once you ovulate, you will start your period within 14 days or you're pregnant, it's coming or you're writing it so right then you kind of know okay, I ovulate it my temperature spikes, I ovulated. And then you also kind of feel it, you know, sometimes people have, you know, but But you may not also be ovulating on the on the IUD, I have a lot of clients who haven't ovulated on the IUD. Now with a gut, the IUDs have been shown to create imbalances in the gut, especially with Candida overgrowth. So that also can happen not always, but that can happen so but it's kind of with the birth control pill and hormonal birth control is pick your poison. Like what, that's why I'm like, which one is so that I you know, I gave a while back and I still have it on my website, I have a free birth control masterclass. And you can go on my website wants you to have like 45 minutes, and it breaks down every single type of birth control hormone, and hormone free, conservation, unbiased, non judgmental, and it's really just kind of pick these what's right for you might not be right for me and might not be right for you know, your friends. So it's like it's, we all have different needs and different. We're in different places in our lives. And so that's why I'm all about informed consent. So instead of just being told, this is what you need, yeah, being these are your options. And here's the pros and cons. And now you are, you are a grown ass adult, why don't you go home, think about it, make a decision and choose for yourself and with now that you have all the information present. And that's not that's not happening in medicine that's not happening with most female patients today.

Katie: 54:00

I love I love everything that you're doing what you're offering and how you're healing women and what you're just bringing to the forefront. These women's issues are so hush hush in so many cultures. I mean, even just the fact that like this is the first time I mentioned that I had a hysterectomy and I was embarrassed about it. Like there's no reason for that, you know, so the awareness that you're spreading and teaching these women to self advocate and everything you're doing is it's just it's really phenomenal and we're so grateful to have you and I know our listeners are going to learn a lot and potentially you're going to really help some of them just from an episode so

Amy: 54:35

yeah, and Europe by the way, I love your Instagram and I love all the videos you do they're so helpful for our listeners if you check out her Instagram page, it's it's at a period your period guru and you've got all these great videos just like little bits of information that are super helpful about diet and lifestyle and hormones. So anyway, I love it. So good job. Yeah, yeah, she like that. It's really helpful. Share it, share it on our pages. Yeah,

Katie: 54:59

yeah. How can our listeners find you? Is that your website? Just yeah, so

Jenna: 55:03

on Instagram at the period guru, and my website is Jenna longoria.com So those are great places I have so many free resources I really do I have tons of free resources on my website I've got a pain free period book I've got a ebook I've got a period solutions masterclass a birth control recording so pick your pick your jam and

Amy: 55:25

quiz in terms of your program. If our listeners want to sign up with for your program, and you do it virtual I know you're based in Amsterdam, but do you work with anyone?

Jenna: 55:34

Yeah, I work online. And I actually only do enrollment twice a year. So I'm currently my enrollment starts Hint Hint, actually, next week. Oh, I don't know when this podcast is going out. But I enroll in the spring, early spring and I enroll in the and in the Fall Enrollment Period is usually two or three weeks or whenever the spots fill up. I work with 11 women because it is a four month program. So I can only see a certain amount of women each enrollment period. So there are options out there.

Katie: 55:58

That's great. All right. So let's hit our rap session really quickly because I have a feeling you have some some good ones for us. So just a few questions. How what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Jenna: 56:10

For me? The lemon water first thing in the morning, I couldn't imagine starting my day without 16 ounces a warm lemon water and I put a little bit of sea salt in there. That just I mean, hydrates, you makes your skin look great. It's great for the liver and detoxing, you know, toxins away from the body endotoxins hormones and yeah, I think that would be probably be my wellness hack would be the lemon water.

Katie: 56:34

That's a good one. And I've heard that that's good for your gut to kind of

Jenna: 56:37

absolutely to get moving. Yeah, it helps with motility. So in the morning gets things moving and it helps stimulate the liver. It helps make your bile not because our bile but that our gallbladder releases to break down fats sometimes can get kind of sludgy, and then it can't do its job and lemon water can make it kind of thinner and consistency. So it's kind of and it's just and they're hydrating. The sea salt, the sea salt is has, you know, minerals in it like sodium and potassium, which a lot of us are deficient in. So I always recommend people add a quarter teaspoon of sea salt to every liter of water to remineralize re mineral mineral wise. So I do that first thing in the morning with like a little bit of sea salt and lemon, half a lemon squeezed and 16 ounces of warm water first thing in the morning,

Katie: 57:24

hey, yeah, I need to try that. Alright, so this is what we call your five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dried off Uber. They do have Uber and Amsterdam. Yes, yes. Uber just alerted you. And they're five minutes away. What are you going to do? What's your holy grail is your go to your routine to get out the door and get into the Uber in five minutes.

Jenna: 57:44

Oh, wow. Okay, so usually, I Well, I'll go to the bathroom one last time before I get to the Uber. Oh, yeah. And I guess I don't know, like, make sure I have everything in my purse. I guess that would be the thing. Make sure have like my chapstick and my phone and all of that jazz. And yeah, and then I'm always running late. So forgetting something and then coming back inside to go get that off my shoes. And I'm getting that thing and then putting my shoes back on. And that would be it. Yeah.

Katie: 58:14

That's great. That's all right. And last one, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Jenna: 58:20

Oh, man, meditation. Absolutely. I love to meditate first thing in the morning and I have a this infrared near infrared red lights and I sit in front of that lamp while I meditate, and that really just helps me just start the day and just ground and at some present, you know, just kind of calming nervous system. I love that. What

Amy: 58:41

brand red light Do you have? I'm looking into getting one. Yeah, I like

Jenna: 58:44

the bio light. It's not advertised that much. And so then you don't pay all their like the price for the advertisements and stuff and other companies. So really? Yeah, like the bio light. That's a good one.

Amy: 58:55

Okay, nice to know, good to know, Ray noted. So thank you so much for being on our show. Jenna, this was amazing. I learned so much. Thank you for answering all of my detailed questions. But I think I'm not alone in saying that, you know, we all need to be more educated. And I think this will be so helpful for our listeners. So thank you so much for coming on the show. We definitely will probably want to have you back for a second round of questions. I'm sure our listeners will have a lot of questions for you. So thank you so much for spending time with us today. And I will kick it to Katie, we always like to end with a mantra to set the tone.

Katie: 59:27

Yes. Thanks, Amy. And thank you, Jenna, this was such an illuminating session. So it's very exciting. All right, our mantra for this week. Everything I am going through is planting something valuable. And me. I think that is a really powerful one. And it's so hard to remember when you are going through things but yeah, just repeat that when needed some Yes. Good one. Yeah. All right. So thank you

Amy: 59:53

so much. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode. Check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 38 - How To Cook Healthy, Family Friendly, And Fast With Kat Can Cook (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 38 How To Cook Healthy, Family Friendly, And Fast With Kat Can Cook.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

.Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Yeah, so nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. We're obsessed with your content. It's so good.

Kat: 0:35

Oh my god, I love you. Thank

Amy: 0:37

you.

Katie: 0:37

It's so your tic tock. We first like I just discovered the whole tic tock thing recently, Amy's been into it forever. But you're like I was I went into like a Kat hole on

Unknown: 0:48

a Kat hole that I've never heard of Kat hole. Thank you. Yeah, it's been it's been really wild. I feel like I don't consume enough. I was just talking to a friend of mine about that this morning. I feel like I don't I want to consume content again. And I you know, because of my bandwidth restrictions, you know, creating and going in putting out content you know, conversing with, you know, my community and then I'm off again, but I miss like actually consuming like Tik Tok in particular, but

Amy: 1:21

I know I am. I know, I have weeks where I have more time where I'm like, I go down the rabbit hole, tick tock, and I love every second of it. And I just like learn new things or get ideas. And then there's weeks where I'm so busy, that you just don't get a chance and it's so nice to be able to do that. But anyway, thanks for joining us. All right. So I will I will start us off. Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. We are super excited to chat with Kat Ashmore today, aka Kat can cook on Instagram and tic tac. She is a tick tock chef, a blogger a producer a mom. She is a classically trained chef, a TV personality and Emmy award winning food television producer and recipe developer focused on real food recipes and cooking tips for busy lives. She's got a 1.7 million following on Tik Tok, which is well deserved because we were just talking before we started recording and how incredible and user friendly her content is. Super engaging, really high quality video and Kat is known for incorporating unique tricks and creativity into everyday meal preparation. She aims to empower the home cook to make delicious healthy meals for themselves and their families and have fun doing it. And I will say I love your bio, which is that mom friend you asked for healthy recipes because it makes it very approachable and accessible. And that's what we're all about as the show. So welcome to the show. Kat so nice to have you here.

Unknown: 2:49

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk with you.

Amy: 2:52

So we are going to start out with something we call our Nirvana the week which is really just a way to step back and think about our week and what brought us joy this week. Whether it was a moment a day, whatever thing that spark joy so I will let you Katie, give us your Nirvana the week.

Katie: 3:10

Okay, great. Thanks, Amy. Hi Kat. We're so excited that you're here and i i should say we live in the same town if it was like a pre COVID world we can be together. So but eventually we will meet in person I look forward to that. Mine are one of the week just happened which is why I look like I do which is kind of a mess. But I just came from being back on the reformer and doing Pilates for the first time in eight weeks. I had I had like post COVID syndrome. So I have been out of commission and now I'm back and to do what I love. It's like my happy place. I mean, I love being other informer my brain goes completely clear. And it just it feels so good. It felt so it was like I felt like the first time my body moved in like two months. That's really what it felt like so it was fantastic. That was my nirvana for sure. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 3:58

I love that Katie you're radiating I can tell you feel really good. So I love that. I would say probably yesterday's launch. So cat we launched one of like my favorite people. Alli Webb. We launched her podcast yesterday, her interview with us and it was sort of a first full circle moment for Katie and I because we've always looked up to her. I've admired her for years. And she's sort of been my inspiration for like starting a business in the first place. Starting my own thing in the first place. It's to be able to launch our episode was was really fun. And I think it was a good like reflection moment for Katie and I because we we launched a podcast a year ago. It was just like a nice moment. So that was great. What about you, cat?

Unknown: 4:38

I was thinking about this. So I think my Nirvana moment was going to the diner with my going to the diner with my kids and my husband and actually enjoying a meal together because they're at those ages where they're three and five. So I'm like I get these glimpses have like, oh, like, this is what it's gonna be like when, you know, they're not running all over the restaurant and going through people's purses. And, you know, we can actually have a conversation and I can finish a meal was really, I mean, the diner might as well have been a palace. I mean, it felt really, really good to be able to just connect and soak it up and I'm managing my expectations. You know, I I know that next time might be a complete disaster again, but I'm very grateful for those. Those glimpses of joy and calm and normalcy when I get them.

Katie: 5:40

That's lovely. We was by chance Sherwood diner in Westport, because in last night, because I almost took my kids last night to the diner.

Unknown: 5:48

Oh, that's so funny. It was Southport diner. So very, okay. We

Katie: 5:51

almost went to Southport Diner because we were in Fairfield for the dentist. Anyway, I digress, but isn't really

Unknown: 5:55

funny. Okay, our favorite place?

Katie: 5:58

That's great. Yeah, that's a good one. I totally get what you mean by that, by the way, like when the kids are at that age, or they sit down and they want to have conversations with you around the dinner table. It's a lot of fun. Right? She's Amy has an older she has teenagers. So she She's their

Amy: 6:12

preteen and a teenager. Yeah. 12 and 14, almost 15. But yeah, when they start becoming like real people and are able to talk and like enjoy a meal together. It's such a milestone, right? Because when the kids are little, you're like a mad person you can never eat. That's the worst. It's like the worst going out to dinner is horrible. It's awful. And now they're starting to get That's great.

Unknown: 6:35

Yeah, great.

Katie: 6:36

Sweet. Well, let's kick it off. I want to get right into it. Because we want to get to know you a bit like we've been following you on social media and your content is so fun, like Amy was saying it's so accessible and easy to follow, easy to do. So tell us a little bit first about becoming this insane social media and blog sensation, you maybe we should back up, what were you doing before you were cat can cook.

Unknown: 7:05

Thank you for that, by the way. So the couple of years prior to starting, can cook, which was in July of 2020. It was you know, a few months into the pandemic. And I had been a stay at home mom for three years, I was in a I was in a pretty dark place. And that and I think, you know, as the pandemic started, it exacerbated, I think whatever state was kind of like, you know, humming along within a lot of people, it kind of just forced things up, right. So that really was where I was when I started getting creative again, and I started the website. And I think when you're at a hard moment in your life, you either kind of get kicked down the stairs or up the stairs. And that really was a bottom that I was able to spring from and I took action and I'm grateful that I did. But um, prior to that I had, as you said, you know, I had gone to culinary school. And I had sort of worked in almost every area of food media and business. So from, you know, being a food television producer, to a recipe developer to Food Products Manager to a buyer to you know, so I had kind of run the gamut in it. And so I'm, you know, making the choice to stay home with my kids. And we'll probably get into this. But it really didn't even feel like a choice, if I'm honest. And I think a lot of women deal with this. Because being in the suburbs, and knowing that my career really exists in New York City. There really is not a career for me here. So my choices at the time seem to be commute into New York City every day, which my husband also did, and never see my kids and probably not really see my husband, or stop working. And those were the only two options really available to me at the time.

Katie: 9:10

Absolutely. And I mean, we should note, it's an hour's commute. So eat for short, like my husband does it and he gets home often at like eight o'clock after the concern. But so I completely can understand that. When you were doing television producing what were some of the shows you were contributing to on your on?

Unknown: 9:26

Sure. So right after culinary school, I ended up getting a position with Martha Stewart. So that was really amazing. She had been my idol. It still is very surreal to kind of talk about even though you know, I had a great sort of close relationship with her. Yeah, but my I was notorious in my family for I would bring cookbooks with me on vacation all the time, like six heavy cooks. And my dad was like, you know, are you serious? But I would go on vacation and I'd be Reading them in like a hotel room like novels at night. And my mom thought I was, you know, he's like, where

Amy: 10:06

are you cooking like,

Unknown: 10:07

we're in a hotel room. But I just I couldn't get enough. I love to consume the content. I love the story of food. I love the connection. I love the community. I love the creativity of it. So I used to read her entertaining books, you know, those are some of the ones that I read all the time. So it was really very surreal to be able to work for her. But at a time where most of my class, graduating from culinary school was going into a restaurant, which was highly encouraged by all of my instructors at the time, it was really like you need to be in a restaurant, you need to get hands on experience, my instincts were just like, that is not going to be good for me, that is not going to be good for my mental health. That's, you know, I had been like a waitress in college, I kind of knew what that life was like. And it's so much admiration for the people that do it because it is a lot of hard labor. It's very long hours. It's hard on a lot of levels, especially now. But I interviewed for an externship. It's called it's sort of the last leg of your education at the Institute of Culinary Education. There was one spot on the Martha Stewart show. And I ended up getting it, which was great. And within like three months, they offered me a full time position on the show. So I was one of the people that produce the food segments. So anytime you saw Martha cooking with, you know, celebrities, you know, chefs or celebrity chefs or you know, sometimes ourselves, I was on television as well doing things like Thanksgiving hotlines and product reviews and that kind of stuff. So cool so much. It was very cool.

Katie: 11:42

It was I've always wondered about that world. Like, I mean, there's a lot that goes behind the scenes there. Right. And you guys are like all of these other people are actually doing a lot of cooking. Not Martha, right like she does on screen cooking. But right. Isn't there a lot of behind the scenes action?

Unknown: 11:57

Yeah, 90 98% of it is done before the camera starts rolling? Absolutely. You know, you've got swaps you've got and you know, now of course, I'm seeing how so much of that plays. So much of those skills that I had almost forgotten about when I went in a different direction started working for her at corporate and developing recipes. That production side, you know, I've been a storyteller my whole life, right. And the way that I look at it now is that now I'm storytelling on social media in short form video, right? And I'm calling for brands, but I've been a storyteller my entire life. It's just different platforms that I've told that story. So yeah, it was, yes, it was an unbelievable, an unbelievable experience. I also think that I I grew up very fast. Really living in New York City. I almost feel like everybody should live in New York City for like,

Amy: 12:54

three runs. Yeah, no. Both lived in New York for Yeah, over 10 years and totally agree. It's an education.

Unknown: 13:01

It is such an education. And I don't know if you agree with this, but the way that I looked at it was like, I got there. And I was like, Okay, I really need to figure out who I want to be. Because you can be anything like it is it is a place where it's not like a lot of other cities where there's a general direction that the tide flows in, right, like New York, there's everything. So you really are forced to carve out, like what direction is it that I want to take? Because everything is at your disposal. And I that's the time that I really got a backbone. And I'm I mean, I'm so grateful for that. Yeah, it was, it was amazing.

Amy: 13:43

So great. So tell me a little bit about I know you said you started creating your own content and storytelling on Tik Tok and Instagram in early 2020. So how did you kind of figure out that you wanted to do that? Were you just watching tick tock and then saying, Oh, I could do that with my stuff. Like, how did you like actually start because I think that's also the hard part. Just like identifying that this is something you could actually do and make a living doing?

Unknown: 14:08

Mm hmm. Yeah, that's a great question. I didn't. I didn't really even think that far. I had never been on Tik Tok. So the way that it all happened was that it was at a time where tick tock was, you know, again, the pandemic had started and tick tock was at a place within the organization where they were had a priority of leveling up the platform and maturing the platform and making it really heavy on educational useful content. Right. So it was at a time where a friend of mine who is model and actress out in LA she had participated in this program with tick tock called the creative learning fund, I believe it was called and where they brought in education creators and you worked directly with tick tock for a period of time. So like weekly content meetings, and you learned about the platform, and what was great was that you were really accountable. You had to post a certain amount of videos, you know, per month. So I just said, Yes, I was again, I was not in a great place. I didn't feel like I had a whole lot to give.

Amy: 15:26

So tick tock reach out, to where your friend connected you and

Unknown: 15:30

my friend recommended me for it. That's amazing. Yeah. It's so funny, cuz she texted me the other day. And she was like, she just had a baby. She was been in that haze. And she was like, like, I just looked at your page. Like, I knew that this would happen, you know, but it didn't happen overnight. It seems like it happens. Yeah. But I've had these spurts where, you know, which informs me what kind of content my community really wants to see, of course, but yeah, so I said yes. To this program.

Amy: 15:58

What a great program. Well, yeah.

Unknown: 16:00

I mean, it was an amazing opportunity. And I really didn't feel worthy of it. And I, I remember my husband kind of going like, well, what are your goals with? And he would like, throw these things out there. Like, do you want to write a cookbook? Do you wanna have a product line? Do you want to make $100,000 Next year, and I was bristle, because I was like, I felt this pressure. Like, I'm not gonna do that, you know, it just felt too big. Yeah, that way. And now those things are happening, which is so cool to me to see. But um, yeah, it really saved me in a lot of ways. That sounds a little dramatic, but

Katie: 16:39

it's not amazing. It's okay.

Amy: 16:42

Yeah, congratulations. And it's,

Unknown: 16:43

I work with Tik Tok a

Amy: 16:44

lot through my other job, which is marketing. And I know they're really invested in their creators. I didn't know they had a program like that, and what a valuable place to learn, like how to do it. And now that you're saying that, I'm like, okay, that's, that must have been such a good foundational way to start because, I mean, obviously, your videos are so great, but like, I'm sure they gave you a lot of good tips and tricks. So yeah, speaking of your videos, so let's segue into some meal prep, like go to healthy family friendly. I mean, obviously, there's tons of this on your, on your on your feeds, but what are kind of your favorite things to make and like easy things because I am not. Katie is an amazing cook and I always still recipes from her, but I am not a good cook at all. So I'm always looking for quick ways to like have weekday meals or snacks on the go. What are your favorites? Well, do

Unknown: 17:34

you want to start with like weeknight dinners? Are we sure? Yeah. Yeah, cuz I feel like dinner time is is the is the troublesome time for most of us. Right? Always, like, especially being a mom, even for me, like I cook for a living and sometimes I feel really burdened by getting dinner on the table. So I completely get it. So I think I like to batch cook as much as possible. So oftentimes, when I'm making something, I will make a good amount of it and I'll free some of it. Like I'm always thinking about like, I have to cook right now. Anyway, I might as well like stock away some right so like last night, and this doesn't really apply because my kids wouldn't touch it to be honest, but I made like a minestrone, right so I made like this like beautiful winter minestrone with all this like great stuff in it. They like pick the pasta out, that's fine, whatever. But I made like a huge batch of it. And then you know, I froze, you know, probably like three really good sized containers. I made a double batch. So I'm like thinking about it's an investment in your like future busy. Yeah,

Amy: 18:45

I'm really bad at that.

Unknown: 18:46

I'm always thinking about that. And really, it's the other thing too is that like I'm big on meal prep, but like meal prep light, so not the, you know, little segmented containers and that kind of thing, but I'll be making batches of pesto and I'll freeze it I freeze it in ice cube trays right and so then you've got these, like little cubes of pesto. You throw it into a sauce you put into a blender when it's thought you've got a salad dressing like you've got it awesome. I love that idea. Not your freezer stocked with it. I don't. I'm very big on not throwing things away. I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about that. But my family's big meatball family. I don't know about yours, but something about kids and meatballs. They just it tends to just work. So I make a lot of different kinds of meatballs. I do these like chimichurri meatballs. I do these teriyaki meatballs with like roasted broccoli, sheet pan situations can be really really easy. And very, very simple to do. So. We are big. I mean my my kids like flavor it very much like me. They'd like big flavored food. So I do a lot of different marinates I have teriyaki knee, so marinate on my website. And I love to do it with like grilled chicken or grilled salmon. You could also do it in the airfryer. So you could just like marinate it in the nice oh teriyaki marinade, and then throw it in airfryer or boil it or whatever it is during the winter months. It's just like flavor bombs and then you've got it taken care of like it lasts for a while and your fridge, grab a piece of protein from the freezer, get it to frosting, and you've got your dinner done.

Katie: 20:30

As you're passing my home is my kids don't all want to eat my food and like thank you if you're saying I'm a good cook, I'm not that good. But I think I do all right. And as I ended up being like a short order cook Yeah, and cooking one meal for one kid one meal for the other kid. That has really made me not want to cook as much anymore. You know me? Yeah, well, I guess it is frustrating. But you're I mean, it's of course your kids are, you know, three and five and eating your food. You make amazing food. And did you always like from the time they can eat? Was it always like you're not getting kid food? We're doing this like you're like, I'll eat my meals.

Unknown: 21:09

No, I am not any better than you let me just I mean it like my first I don't know if you if you saw this tick tock but my first truly viral tick tock. Was this like jokey? I mean, it's ridiculous. But it's just like joke that I need because I say to my friends where I'm like, you know, when people find out that I'm a trained chef, they're like, Oh, you must never give your kids frozen chicken nuggets. And I'm like, obviously not Janet, I cook them first. You know, like, literally a million views on Instagram, like, you know, I am like very honest about the fact where I'm like, I will give my kids a box of Annie's macaroni and cheese. And I will put cauliflower rice in it. And they will smart with it. Like cauliflower takes on whatever flavors you put it with. Right? It's a very neutral thing. So I put it in pancakes, I put it in meatballs like you could put it in. That's a great idea. I never thought about that. My superfood pancakes are like, literally they're like banana oats. I put almond butter in there for fat because like, my kids won't eat almond butter or peanut butter and jelly sandwiches like they won't eat sandwiches? I wish they would never mind. They won't do it. You know, they're not easy on me. So I completely get it. So my approach is this. I make sure that there is one thing maybe two that I know that they like that they don't like absolutely despise. So they're like safe foods, right. So whether it's like, you know, sourdough toast with some butter on it, or like some carrots with some dressing, I make sure that there are a couple of things. And then I'll serve that, like I know that they're not going to eat salmon. But I will put salmon on their plate. And I just manage my own expectations of it and say, if they eat some carrots, and they eat a piece of bread, like that's different. Yeah, yeah, well, good. So like a big part of it for me has been letting go of this idea that they have to have a balanced meal and looking at like, I just aim for like a balanced day. Yes. Like, I just aim for a balanced day. So that is why I like those, these superfood pancakes I make. If I get them eating a few of those pancakes, I'm like, I don't care if they have Pirate's Booty the rest of the day, like they had all of the nutrients and healthy fats that they need, you know, and it just takes the pressure off. Because I'm like you like doing the short order cook. That's not fun for anybody. And I've done it too. I've done it too.

Amy: 23:50

So let me ask you a question about snacking stuff. Because my family including me tends to be big snackers and especially with teenage boys like they don't I mean, my older one will, is starting to eat like real good foods and like flavors. My younger one is super picky. But they tend to snack all day long. Literally, my teenager, my older one will go downstairs at midnight and have five bowls of cereal. I mean, he's crazy. And he's eating phase and they'll just eat cereal and junk. And like my little ones like with candy. And so I just want to have like little snacks that they can eat that are sitting in front of them that they don't have to do anything to because I'll be like, oh, there was this in the fridge and they're like, Oh, I

Unknown: 24:32

didn't see it. I'm like it's in front of your face and you put it in the microwave for 10 seconds. So like what's like an easy thing to prepare that they can just grab? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so the first thing that comes to my mind is not necessarily a food suggestion, but it's more of an organizational suggestion. Love Oh, yeah. So a friend of mine. Her name is at home with Shannon I don't know if you follow her but she's known for like herself serve for fridge situation and self serve stations. So she has like self serve stations for everything. She's got four kids. And like having a section of the refrigerator that is like their section where they know it's like, their snacks, their food. I don't know, like, I think when they're young, depending upon the kid, I think the the benefit is a little bit different. But when they're young, there's that like pride and like, who is my cooling? I can have anything in this area, right? Like something that's really accessible. And it also is like, yeah, it keeps food from kind of going to the back of the fridge to die. And yeah, never getting seen and being like, I didn't know that that was there. I'm realizing I probably need to do that for my husband. Because you know, for the most part, I'm like,

Amy: 25:46

Oh my God, it is everything. My husband does that all the time will be like, Oh, we're out of XYZ. And I'm like, What are you talking about? It's right there. He's like, Oh, I didn't see it. I'm like, if this is not on the front shelf directly in front of his face, he won't see it.

Unknown: 26:00

I just have to put like, like a PBR label on it or something. So I don't know. I gotta do something about it. But yeah, so I mean, my first question would be, what kinds of snacks do they tend to want? So what do they reach for currently?

Amy: 26:17

Cereal? Cereal? I would say cereals number one maybe like popcorn or chips. Or for my little one candy, which we've got sucker. He's like, addicted. Or like, you know, I don't I try not to buy them but like gummy snacks or fruit strips or bars? Like things like that.

Unknown: 26:36

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, we do. Honestly, we do all of that same stuff. Yeah. A big thing for me that I'm aware of is that if I can make try to get whatever they're snacking on, if it has some fat component, it's gonna keep them full. So that in Yeah, half an hour. They're not like, I want more of this. I want more that, you know, they're just constantly eating and then they're not hungry for dinner or whatever. So it can be a challenge for sure. I do a lot of like smoothies for them. But we'll do I mean, we do like the Lara bar route like yeah, like those chopsticks like the turn? Yes, I

Amy: 27:17

have those. Okay.

Unknown: 27:19

I'll do like knots. Would they do nuts? If you made like a?

Amy: 27:23

Maybe? Yeah, you know, I do have tons of nuts, but they don't. They won't.

Unknown: 27:27

I think yeah, maybe I should mix up like a nut like situation for them. Because they do have tons of nuts, but they don't like grab nuts like I would but yeah, maybe that's like my hair. But what I do is I'll do like maple glaze pecans. And then I have Yeah, so you mean literally it says you just tossed them with maple syrup and like a little bit of flaky salt in a saucepan, and then it hardens. So it sounds so good. Yeah. So I mean, it's great for me too, because I could throw it on salads. I could, whatever. But um, yeah, it's that sweet component, because they're not going to grab like a handful of Brazil nuts. Like, yeah, you know.

Amy: 28:03

So I do I do have a section in the pantry for them. I not in the fridge. That's a good idea. But in the pantry, I do have a section but it's kind of evolved because now they're older. So they just kind of take everything but I'm gonna I'm gonna think of some good nut ideas. I like that because it's a healthy fat. And

Unknown: 28:19

it's like, mimicking what, you know, do they have like, my daughter has a wicked sweet tooth, right? So like in loves, like fruit. So anytime that I can, I can incorporate like some kind of sweetness in there. And also, like, I don't know if this is a whole other thing, but I think we can get so dogmatic about like, Oh, sugar and kids and this and that. It's like, for me, you know, if it's going to get them to eat something healthy. Like it's not covered in chalk. It's, it's all worth it for me. You know, it's, it's real food too. So

Amy: 28:52

yeah, actually, my older one loves fruit. And he's hilarious. Like, I'll get to two things are raspberries at the store. They're gone. Like an hour. He eats great, both of them. But I mean, it's great. But it's like he's telling me you have to go to the store. We need more fruit. We need more of this.

Unknown: 29:12

I'm like, can you just go to the store and like, get what you want? Because I can't I can't keep up with the amount of food and it's not the kind of thing you can buy in bulk like, right? It's not Yeah, it's not like a Costco thing where

Katie: 29:24

you could Yeah, a teenage boy you're out of house and home. Oh, sure.

Unknown: 29:29

Right. Yeah,

Katie: 29:30

so I speaking of your content I saw you have these really amazing food hacks to keep in your like produce longer and to reviving it. I saw something strawberries and something with Romaine and I'm gonna let you tell us and then do you have any other ones?

Unknown: 29:45

Yes, yes. So I really it really hurts my feelings to have to throw like anything out. I mean, sometimes my husband's like, what are you doing? Like why are you saving? You know, you're getting like a little Same here, but it really I do not like throwing anything out. So what I do with berries when I'm buying berries, I'm not buying them a ton right now, but what I do with berries is because raspberries in particular, I mean, if you don't have a son that is eating them within like 20 minutes, they tend to go bad really quickly, right? They get bad really, really fast. So if you soak it in a mixture of one part of vinegar, like your everyday white vinegar, you could also use like an apple cider vinegar or whatever, don't waste your expensive stuff. one part vinegar to four parts water, and you just soak it does not make it could be anywhere from four to 10 parts water, if you're really adverse to any kind of vinegar thing, you could just rinse it off. But what it does is it kills the mold inside of the berries, and it keeps it so you can in the summertime, I mean I've had strawberries last, like up to two weeks, if I buy like a big Wow, big package of them. Yeah. Or if I go strawberry picking or whatever. And I'm like, Okay, I can't like be making jam and freezing and all that stuff now. So that is really, really helpful. And when it comes to vegetables because I buy a ton of veggie quick question,

Amy: 31:15

how long do you sell get? How long do you sell? minutes? Okay, and then rinse it off and store it. Okay, Natalie, go ahead, vegetable, sorry.

Unknown: 31:23

Clarify, um, when it comes to vegetables, so you can revive most vegetables with ice water. I tend to when I when I get my veg, I often do this to an online farmers market. Based in New York, I often will order from them. But if I'm going to the store as well, oftentimes, I'll prep some of my veggies when I get home. But if you've got veggies that like you're grabbing a head of romaine, and it's like really sad and wilted. You don't have to throw it out, you can just put it in some ice water. And you will find that it really perks up for you. I have it's amazing. I've even had like carrots where like, I could not even snap them like they were like, I mean, like they were like yoga carrots, you know, it was like, I was like this thing. But then I put it overnight in ice water. Like I peeled it, I put it overnight and ice water and the carrots were perfectly fine. The next day, they were chopping up crying. Oh, yeah,

Katie: 32:27

that's amazing. It makes so much sense. Because the there's so much water content. That's what vegetables and fruit are like, right and you feed water to flowers to bring them alive. Why wouldn't the same thing I've never thought of that. And the other thing was strawberries and the fruit and killing the mold is genius. Because you can accidentally ingest berries that have molded someone and it's really bad for you like it's bad for your gut and all of that stuff. So that's just a great health hack as well. I love that.

Unknown: 32:54

And it's easy, and it's cheap. And it's stuff you already have on hand, it takes two minutes. You know, same thing with herbs with the water, like I put them my favorite way to store herbs like fresh herbs is to put them in like a mason jar filled with water, and then put like a bag on top of it. So like a stash or bag or whatever, and then put it in my refrigerator door and they're gonna last week's for you that way.

Katie: 33:20

That's great. Your your food waste, like how much it really, really bothers you. I mean, I can greatly appreciate it. And I think everyone these days is trying to lean towards reducing that. But I'm so curious as part of that drilled into your own culinary school because I know that in restaurants like chefs and everything, I've heard that like, no food is thrown out like you do something with even the scraps of the scraps. Is that Is that a thing from school?

Unknown: 33:47

You know, that's, that's a really interesting point. I actually think it's more from I mean, my parents were not wasteful people at all. So I grew up with that, you know, my grandfather, like he would lose a shoe and like, hang on to the other one. Like it's so good. Like, come from that. And But Martha also is very much that way. She will not I mean, if there's one drop of batter in a bowl, she's like, No, no, no, like, she will not let you rent it out, you know, and she grew up quite poor. So we had that professional sit like standpoint as well. So I think that that, that that made a difference to it. Thank you for asking that because I hadn't hadn't really considered that before.

Katie: 34:32

I'm super curious. What are your top five pantry staples for healthy meals because I feel like there's things that as long as they're there, we can always go to them and turn something out. That's like, you know, somewhat healthy aside from always having the fresh produce and everything on hand. Entry staples.

Unknown: 34:50

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, there have been times where I have even you know, I've been recipe testing a lot and then I look in my refrigerator and I'm Like, I don't really know what I'm gonna do for dinner. So, one of my favorite so the first thing that comes to my mind is chickpeas. So all lagoons really like I've always got, especially white beans and chickpeas in my pantry, like I do a lot with lentils as well. If you've got lentils, chickpeas, white beans, ie you are well on your way to a meal, one of my favorite. Okay, so I need to answer your question first because I can go on a tangent so I would say I would say lentils number one. Chickpeas, white beans, I'm going to bunch all of that in together. Number two, some grains. So whether it's rice, or Pharaoh or something like that, and then I would say two big things would be in the realm of some kind of a cooking paste sauce, things like that. So for me, kimchi is always love kimchi. Obsessed. Kimchi is always in my fridge. And then some kind of pesto, curry paste, tomato paste, something like that. And then coconut milk, canned coconut. Oh,

Katie: 36:20

yes.

Unknown: 36:21

I always have those. Those are big ones for me. So

Amy: 36:24

I never use coconut milk. I don't even know what to do with it. Oh,

Katie: 36:27

it's like soups. hurries, like all right. Oh, my goodness.

Unknown: 36:31

I've got a number of recipes on my website, but one I'm going to look up. Yeah, so one of my actually a recipe for when I did a little bit of private shopping when I was just starting at Martha and when I was in culinary school, and I would make this pasta that is it's a spicy fusilli pasta with tomato free, but you're actually using coconut milk so it's dairy free. And you combine tomato paste with coconut milk. Like you cannot taste any hint of coconut is just a really luscious, creamy like nibble of vodka but healthier, delicious. You know,

Amy: 37:08

and I never use tomato paste. I always just use like a sauce. But I feel like a paste is probably like a better texture, right?

Unknown: 37:15

It's that mommy, it's concentrated flavors. So those are those like secret weapons kind of I call them that I have on hand it is like flavor, flavor flavor. It's really complex. All of the work is done for you. I make these coconut spice chickpeas using tomato paste, some spices, some coconut milk, chickpeas, sorbet over rice over cauliflower rice, so good. And then the other night, it was one of those days where just you know, work was insane. I got home at like 530 The kids had eaten already. So that that was helpful, but I literally made Oh, I had lentils in the fridge from the night before. I cooked two fried eggs and olive oil and then like a big heap of kimchi. And that was made. And I was like, Oh, good. I was so happy. You know, like you don't, you can still eat really well, with really minimal time, if you just know how to put things together. And so that's what I'm learning.

Katie: 38:15

Affordable. Also, like all the stamp staples, rather that you just said are super affordable. I know so many people say oh so expensive to eat healthy. And I know. That's not true. Everything you just says you get rent prices.

Unknown: 38:29

Yeah, very affordable. And that's really important to me with my content in particular is that I am I really want to be I want as many people making these recipes as possible. So I am always like, if you don't have this, use this, if you don't have this use this, like I try and make it so that things are very, very accessible to people because not everyone lives in a community where number one they can afford it. Number two, they've got these specialty stores that carry stuff, right like most of the stuff, Walmart, like you know,

Amy: 39:02

so you know, we love your hungry lady salad series that we like went down the rabbit hole watching them because first of all the salads look incredibly amazing. And second of all, they look like fairly easy to me. So I like watching those videos because I'm like, okay, that's like a thing to have. And then you can eat that over several days. So how did the inspo for that come out? And those on imagining are super popular and like on your channels?

Unknown: 39:24

Yeah, yeah, it's been. It's been really amazing. I mean, that series, I so I posted a soup. It was and I'll never forget because I had I hit a million followers on Tik Tok January 8 of 1.7. So it's all pretty much been because

Amy: 39:44

like January 8, like a month ago this year, yeah.

Katie: 39:47

Oh, wow. It's amazing. Working somebody having more. Congrats.

Unknown: 39:51

Yeah, and I mean, I think I have like 60,000 followers on Instagram, and now I have like 130 And it's so in four weeks. So Clearly, like, one thing that I've really learned is, I think a lot of the success that I've had is because I really shifted my focus to, like really listening to my community, you know, and I tell a lot of content creators, my friends, and you know, marketing in this way, like people will tell you what they want to see from you, you just have to be listening. Because I used to have this whole content plan. These are the recipes I'm going to make and Baba and I had a whole plan for January, and all of these recipes that I had either already made and shot and are still ready to go or not. And I throw it all out the window because I'm like, the way that this one salad resonated with people I called it The Hungry lady salad. It's a kale chop salad with like a lemon tahini dressing. And people were going crazy over it, they loved the name. And I was like, there's really something here. And and so I just was like, this needs to be a series. And you had posted like, 10 episodes so far. And yeah, and I have actually shot one this morning. So I mean, I can make salads all day, like I yeah, I am like very much about like, what are you? What am I adding to my plate rather than what I'm taking away? Like, I love this feeling of like abundance in my life. And it really, like especially entering this month that is like the month of like deprivation, January where everyone's like, wait, I need to do that, like, let's look at it in a little bit of a different way. I have personally gotten a ton of food freedom from viewing food that way, you know, really just focusing on, like, what makes me happy? What are how can I add more color, more texture, more interest? Rather than like taking it away? You know that the perspective of lack and restriction is not one that serves me very well.

Amy: 42:04

I think a lot of Yeah, and I think your salads too, in that series. They're very hardy. So I was looking at them. I'm like, Okay, I need to make because they're not just like, oh, having this little salad. I'm gonna be starving mean they're like, a full on meal. I mean, super hearty so and they're, yeah, I, I they're all like, Look, I

Unknown: 42:21

know, I need them. I just

Amy: 42:24

watched them, like, oh my god, I have to make this immediately. Katie, you can do like a salad off and try to make it better.

Unknown: 42:33

It's been amazing. And it really has. Again, just like really helped me pronounce my mission further of just getting people excited about food, not taking ourselves so serious, adding a whole bunch of stuff to our plate, eating with huge spoon, you know, just the whole concept of like, what it means to eat like a lady and what you know what it means to eat healthy, and it's, it's fun.

Katie: 42:59

And I really love your approach to it. And you know how you're saying, like, switching the focus from restriction and everything. Some people might look at you and think like, oh, you can eat anything you you know, like, you're one of those girls, but you actually lost 25 pounds. And you've been very vocal about this on social media, getting the way you love and the way that you promote and share and everything. Tell us a little bit about that journey.

Unknown: 43:25

Yeah, so I do, I've talked about this a little bit on social, I don't talk about it often not for any reason in particular. I also think that right now, we're in a very sensitive world. And so anything having to do in inevitably, I get tons of comments with like, you know, that like accusing me of promoting diet, culture, you know, all of that stuff. So, it's a, you know, it's not a narrative that I talk about a lot. But yeah, I mean, I was I was a good 2025 pounds heavier. Yeah, like a year ago, then or a year and a half ago, than I am now. And I think in a lot of ways, my my passion for food never left, just like in the absence of creating food, I just ate food and ate. And so, you know, it was nice to be able to redirect my passion a bit into, you know, creating food as well. But, um, yeah, it really started with that mentality of what can I add to my life and, and it's been very, very, very rewarding. I get messages every day. I mean, dozens of messages a day from people that you know, have said like, You've helped me look at healthy eating a different way. I've lost this amount of weight. Like, I don't really ever talk about calories. I don't really, like ever talk about that stuff. Because for me When you just really start falling in love with like beautiful real food like hearty food, interesting food, that that that stuff like sorted itself out. I didn't have to go that route. I'm not saying that that's the way it is for everyone. But from what I'm hearing, I'm not alone in that. Yeah, but

Amy: 45:22

when you say when you say adding, so you're obviously like not creating an eating more. So when you're when you kind of started creating and lost weight, and obviously, it probably wasn't intentional. It's just because you probably were in the creative mode. And that's sitting around like we all were during the pandemic eating. But when you're adding, so you're saying because I love that that's really a great way to think about it, because I never thought about it that way. Like what am I adding? When you say that? You mean in the sense of like, what am I adding that can be more nutritious? Like, am I adding another might add like something to fill you up? More? Like explain that theory? A little bit?

Unknown: 45:58

Yes, yeah. So when I look at what I'm adding, like when I'm creating a salad, for instance, right, like so, I am always looking at like, Okay, here's the base of it. And here, maybe a couple of other things that are pretty normal to put on it. What like cucumber, tomato, like chirp has has a place there for sure. But like that's a pretty boring salad, not something I'm going to be excited to eat every day. And if you love food, the way that I love food, I need to be excited about what I'm eating. And so I'm going to be excited to be eating an amazing new haven pizza or delicious croissant, like that's gonna make me excited. So I need to come up with stuff that is as exciting as that. And so that is really about layering in textures and colors. And, you know, understanding I talked about this a good amount in my videos like understanding the yin and the yang of a great run, like how the sweetness plays off of something that's acidic, and how the creaminess plays off of something, you know. So how different elements of the salad make the other element more pronounced.

Amy: 47:13

Yeah, and it's probably just experimentation to like, I'm just not experimental because I'm like, oh, maybe that won't taste good. And then whatever. Katie actually taught me that though, when she's making a salad, she does that, where she'll just like, go through the pantry be like, oh, what else can I add? Let me add like some cheese. Let me have some nuts. Let me and so I sort of I learned from her like to throw like nutritional yeast in the salad, like, give it a little bit of like, of that texture. So anyway, yeah, it's good to hear that. It's a great way to think about really anything that you're making, like what can you add to make it more? You know, yummy and nutritious. And I love that. Yeah. Okay, so we could talk all day. There's so much more I think to talk about, we probably have to have you on for around two, because there's so many like, there's so many hacks who want to know, let's get to dessert quickly. Like what are your favorite swaps for making healthy dessert? Because I definitely have a sweet tooth and I'm always looking for a yummy dessert.

Unknown: 48:07

Yeah, for sure. And I have dessert every single night like I have. I my freezer is filled with cookies, brownies. blondies. Like, if I don't have bags. So I am with you. So a couple of things. So I mean, I have the fudgy avocado brownies that one of my most in my clothes. Yeah, those look amazing. Those are really, really fun and really big and great. I love to make like chocolate puddings and chocolate mousse is with tofu. It gets a lot of volume and creaminess to the chocolate mousse. And I would never know that it was in there. Sometimes I'll do like a roasted sweet potato mashed sweet sweet potato. I'll make the chocolate mousse out of that. So yeah, so those are those are the big ones for me. And then I have these vegan chocolate chip cookies that I just love and they're really delicious. I'll be posting the recipes soon. So good. Yeah, yeah, it's really just a matter of stepping back and asking yourself like What purpose does this ingredient serve in the dish? And what can replicate that? And and it takes practice to know that but

Katie: 49:20

I need your chocolate chip cookie recipe because that is my all time favorite dessert and I can't eat eggs. So I need that.

Unknown: 49:25

Oh, this is it. I've been I'm still like perfecting it because it's very temperamental. Sometimes it spreads too much. Sometimes it doesn't, which is fine for me because I'm just eating them. But I haven't shared it yet. So I'm like it's not perfect, but I will share with you and maybe it'll be good for you to give me feedback too.

Katie: 49:42

Okay, great. All right. Well, tell us quickly about your ebook because that's so exciting. When did that opportunity come about and

Unknown: 49:51

Well, it's interesting too, because I just submitted my finished my proposal for an actual cookbook yesterday. Awesome. Yeah. So yeah, my literary agents sent it out to publishers last night. So that is like, very exciting. It's so exciting that when this when all of this happened in January, I had like three publishers email me directly, like, we want to do a hungry lady. cookbook. It's not going to be bad. Exactly. But that'll definitely be the tone and the element of it. So yeah, recipe development, it at my core is like what I love to do. It is my favorite thing in the world. I just would create recipes all day, every day, if I could. So I wanted a place where I could, I could package things in a more structured way. So many people have been asking for cookbooks and cookbooks take a while to produce, there's a you know, it's a whole thing. So it was a way for me to just easily get something up for people. And then when I started seeing photos on Instagram of like, you know, people cooking and they have like, bound together all of the pages in like a binder. And I'm like, because they're like, basically like, Oh my God, it was really funny. I'm like these four people. They're, like, printed out and they're, like, laminating it. And I'm like, they're like, it's like a DIY cookbook. Yeah, it that is on the horizon.

Amy: 51:15

Very cool. And if you think about it, you're tick tock and Instagram is basically like a virtual cookbook, because cookbook, because I tend to find recipes that way. And just watch the videos and do them because it's so much easier for me to like visually see it than to like read through the whole recipe. So yeah, that's greater. Awesome. So we're going to get into our rap session was just some fun questions we like to ask every guest so what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Hmm, wellness or

Unknown: 51:41

beauty hat. So I will say two things. First thing is not a hack, but I do I do TM, I do Transcendental Meditation. And that has like, changed my life. And as far as my skin goes, because I get a lot of questions about my skin have gorgeous skin. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. I did not always but um, I put some three main things so I stopped washing my face in the morning. So I don't wash my face at all morning first, so when I am done with my shower, I do like a minute of ice cold water, which takes some getting used to but I think that's really good for my skin and it just wakes me up. It's like good for your endorphins. It also kind of calms you down at the same time. And then the other thing is after my moisturizer at night I do like a pea size of Vaseline all over my face. Oh yeah,

Amy: 52:38

yeah, that's that's so funny. We we had this other we have this tick tock or on the healthy Heuga who does all these beauty and wellness stuff and she told us that she puts vaseline or Aquaphor over her face and like it gets everything Yeah,

Unknown: 52:51

it makes a difference. Yeah,

Katie: 52:53

yeah. Are you literally like dipping your face in a bowl of ice?

Unknown: 52:57

No, so I finished with ice cold water in the shower shower.

Katie: 53:02

Oh, gotcha. Okay, I misunderstood that entirely. Yeah.

Unknown: 53:05

All right. I mean you can definitely like if you just put an ice cube run it all over your face. It's amazing for your skin. I just like yeah, I have an ice roller freezer in my yet. I could do that too. Yeah, weird. Keep it in the freezer and then you go from your bathroom to the freezer.

Amy: 53:22

I keep it in the fridge or the freezer Yeah, and I just grab it like sometimes if I just go downstairs I'll just and I have like a little freezer in my or little fridge in my room in my bedroom in my bathroom like a mini one and so I just use it there.

Unknown: 53:34

Yeah, one of the I need to get one of those. I've been thinking about that. So maybe it's

Amy: 53:38

Yeah, I don't know. I mean I've heard though that doing cold water in the shower a lot of people a lot of like wellness people say that. I don't know if I could stomach egg but I heard it like totally get you going. Yes, it does. Okay,

Katie: 53:52

cool. Are five minutes low. You just got out of the shower and dried off your ice shower. And Uber just alerted you they are five minutes away. What is your quick beauty routine to get out the door like your go to is your holy grail but you're gonna throw

Unknown: 54:05

on to get a car? Yeah, so So the first thing that I'm going to do is probably like use a little bit of dry shampoo. So like Korean or whatever. And then I probably won't do anything to my hair. I'll just like judge it up a bit. And then as far as bass goes, like the biggest things for me are, I've been loving. I've been I love the milk primer. So it's like, you know Milk Makeup the clean Yeah, I love that. It's not like silicone based. You don't feel like it's like clogging my pores. And then I've been using the Ilia super serum. Yes. I have it tinted serum. Yes. Yeah. And it's just like it's light coverage. So if I'm like running out the door, it's like nothing crazy. It always has SPF makeup on. It has SPF. So it's like you're covered. I would throw on some concealer for sure. A little bit of bronzer probably and then Like never go without mascara Thrive mascara is my favorite thing in the entire world.

Amy: 55:06

I haven't tried that I keep seeing it online, it is

Unknown: 55:09

the best. I also think my eyelashes are better because I stopped curling them like I haven't curled them in a long time, like probably year and a half or something like that. So that is really essential for me. Nice.

Katie: 55:21

What did you say thrive?

Unknown: 55:24

Mascara? T h r i v e. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah, so yeah, I

Amy: 55:31

see so many videos about that. Great. I'll have to try it because the mascara that I use is the Ilia mascara. It's like the I forget which one it is like the full, whatever. And it's great, but I'm always looking for a good one. So that's that's good to know. And let Yeah, and last question of our rap session is how do you maintain your daily nirvana? I know you said you do TM so I'm sure that's a big one. But any others?

Unknown: 55:54

TM is really is it's like an essential for me. I do it first thing in the morning it. Yeah. So I would say TM for sure. And then also I wake up very early. And I think that that is really essential for me and setting my day because my kids start to wake up by 636 3645. So if I don't have some time before that I'm in a funky headspace like I'm a sensitive creature. I'm an empath, I tend to take on the energy around me if I don't like ground myself in something pretty significant first thing in the morning, it is not good for anybody involved. So I wake up and usually like 430 Wow. Which is, but I just wake up, I just wake up. Now. I mean, now I literally just wake up and I do my TM, I do like a 20 minute workout. I get a little bit of work done. And by the time they wake up, it's all behind me.

Katie: 56:57

Yeah, that's the same. I don't do that much. But I have to if I don't have

Amy: 57:02

an hour to do that.

Katie: 57:05

Like right before the I need an hour before anybody in my house is awake. And even when my parents are here, my mom with me to have the coffee. I'm like,

Unknown: 57:13

so I need my time, my time and when people act like I'm doing something that is you know, so virtuous by waking up so early. I'm like, I'm doing it so that you don't see me on the news, like I'm doing like I'm doing is so that I am like a good member of society like not for any reason that you should be, you know, like, I just I require a lot to just be steady. You know, that's not my I'm not aware life like a loose garment kind of gal. So I need to I need to send it again.

Amy: 57:45

Yeah, so important. Love that. You love that. All right. Well,

Katie: 57:49

cat I appreciate you so much. You. This was so fun. And we for sure need to do a second round.

Amy: 57:55

Okay, so, cat at the end of the show, I like to just one of us will talk about kind of what we're loving lately. And I'm just curious to know if you know this, so we were just talking about desserts. So I had my new favorite dessert, which I found didn't make it but I found it at Trader Joe's which I was saying on another episode. I don't go to a lot but when I go I somehow sometimes always find like a fun thing. So I found these I've a picture on my phone. I don't know if you guys can see it. But it's the Trader Joe's vegan cookies and cream, vanilla bean bond bonds. And they are made with coconut non dairy frozen dessert. And so it's a coconut non dairy frozen dessert enrobed in a chocolatey coating. They are so good. They're these little bond bonds. And they're non dairy, which is great. So you don't feel like and they're not like you know, you don't get all the dairy side effects. And they're so yummy. And they're really not that bad. Not that we need to go through the calories or the fat or the sugar, but they're pretty low and all of those things. So I happen to find them lately. It's my new favorite things. Are they they're frozen, actually, I'm literally in like frozen section cookies and cream vanilla bean bonbons.

Unknown: 59:04

I'm telling you there's so indulgent knows, like 20 minutes, so I'm going to pack them.

Amy: 59:08

I want to hear what you think about them because I had them and then my my husband loves them. My parents were over recently they went to Trader Joe's and bought them. They're so yummy. And they're just like a good little treat. And that's

Unknown: 59:20

for my kids too. Because they're like, they're not enormous. We're like the ice cream is melting. All right, and they taste like ice cream.

Amy: 59:26

I mean, they're so good. I love that. So really Yeah, take a look. Give us your expert opinion on what you think of it. So that's my favorite thing I'm loving this week. Yeah,

Katie: 59:37

we had a lot of fun talking to you and any smarter.

Amy: 59:41

Yeah, thank you and congrats on all of your success.

Katie: 59:44

Where can our listeners find you you just want to mention

Unknown: 59:47

it Yep. So they can find me on Instagram. I'm Cat underscore can underscore Cook, tick tock. It's cat can cook and then my website is www dot Kathleen ashmore.com

Amy: 1:00:00

Yeah fantastic. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that word please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 34 - 8 Well-Being And Beauty Trends To Buzz About In 2022 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 34 Well-Being And Beauty Trends To Buzz About In 2022.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Hello, Nirvana sisters, and welcome to 2022. Katie and I are actually coming to the last week of the new year. We have some extra time this week, because we're both home with COVID Unfortunately, but fortunately for you, we are able to now take a fun 2022 wellness trends episode earlier than expected. So, with that being said, it's been quite a winter break for Katie and I so we're gonna just start with our nirvana of the day week. Katie, I'll hand it to you.

Katie: 1:00

Thanks, Amy. Well, Happy New Year. Family, it's great to be back. We missed producing for you guys and everything. But we needed a little bit of a break. So we're excited to come to you with new and fun content in the new year. So my Nirvana I think, this week, because like Amy said, we have COVID circulating in our entire family, we've all pretty much taken a turn. And it's forced us to quarantine. And as dull and as boring as that can get. It's actually you know, it's done like the same thing that it did when the world shut down a year ago, we've just really been focusing on family togetherness with my kids and my husband, and we're cooking together and we're playing together and we're watching movies together. Just we're really, there's no distractions, essentially. So that has been my nirvana. It's we've we've all been really present and focused with each other. It's been great. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 1:57

Awesome. Yes, I would say that. And I would also say that I've been watching a lot of TV and binging on a lot of shows and like laying in bed with coffee and watching TV on interrupted, which is like amazing. So that's been nice just to like have some downtime, and also some time to myself to just like literally do nothing and space out on TV and shows. So that's been fun. So getting into our 2022 trends. So Katie, and I've been doing some research and over the last few weeks, and there's a lot of new trends. Katie, I'm sure you've read to coming into 2022. I picked a few that I particularly liked and wanted to talk about, and also some ones that I think are appropriate to our show, because we have some guests coming up that tie in with our trends. And so I can start if you want me to do the first one I found Yeah,

Katie: 2:50

that's here. And

Amy: 2:52

okay, so I was reading through the Whelan, goods wellness Trends report. And one of the things that popped not surprising is at home beauty tools and devices. So we talked about this a bunch last year, I know we had our Shelly Marshall episode we have we've had two episodes with her, our resident beauty shaman and we talked about microcurrent devices, specifically the new face. But essentially what I was reading in the well and good report was that led masks might go current devices, they've all you know existed before 2020. But there's just going to be even more higher rates of use of this stuff. Because I think what they're what they were saying is people got used to doing this stuff at home. And we're experimenting this through 2020 20 and 2021, since they couldn't see their facial list and take care of their skin as much as they would prior to so there's going to be more use of this and people. They call it a trend forecaster from wgsn termed it tech septons. So meaning that people are getting more comfortable with these kind of devices and doing it at home and mixing it still in with their esthetician, etc. But just more people are continuing to be using these devices. So I definitely agree with that. I've been trying to use mine more. One of the stats I found two, which I thought was interesting is as of 2020, the global home use beauty device market was valued at approximately 9.5 billion in 2020. And according to this report by a market research firm, PNS intelligence it's expected to grow to nearly 90 billion in the next decades. So this is just a growing category that we'll continue to take a look at. I know one of the things that I have on my list to buy this year is a red light, I guess it's there's this there's this product called Juve that I've been reading about and it's like red light therapy where you can get a small one for your desk or people have large ones in their home. And I think it's something that you can stand in front of for like 510 minutes a day. And it has all the benefits of red light therapy. And it's funny because I remember in the show that we talked about algae with Katherine aaronson. She had has come from doing her red light therapy, which she definitely mentioned as being a trend and something people are gonna be really interested in. So I've been seeing a lot more about that. So I'm excited to research that and just overall more at home stuff. Okay, moving on, what is your number two trend? Katie will

Katie: 5:15

really quickly I think, also in regards to your Trend at home stuff, do you think also that there has been a hole filled in the market where they're making more of these at home items that are just like maybe more readily available, they're not quite as expensive as maybe they were a couple of years ago. It's just more accessible to the consumer.

Amy: 5:36

I think it's more accessible. I think a lot of brands I've seen are like jumping into this space, because it is so popular, but I think you have to be careful because I think there are some that are FDA approved, and some that aren't. So I know that the one the new face that I bought from Shelley is FDA approved. So I feel good about this. I know that Juve is FDA approved. So I think you have to be careful with which ones you buy, to make sure that they're approved. And they work. But yeah, I've seen I feel like more of this stuff on the market over the last year, and I'm sure it will continue to grow.

Katie: 6:03

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, well, I have a couple of trends that I find interesting. And some I use, some I haven't used, but I know people that do. And mine is the use of psychedelics for therapy. I actually have a friend that has done this to get over post traumatic stress. And also she happens to be a doctor. And so she is studying up on it herself, and, and potentially getting certified to be able to administer psychedelics herself as a therapist. So the reason why people are doing it is because these drugs are believed to work by affecting neural circuits that use neurotransmitter serotonin. So it puts you into a very relaxed state, it gives you all of these like senses of improved well being, you feel very introspective. So it makes it easier for someone in the right scenario with a doctor in a very safe environment to open up about things that maybe they've repressed or that they just have a hard time talking about, to process all of it. So drugs, I mean, I shouldn't maybe drugs is not the the best term to use. But when I think of things like MDMA, and ayahuasca, that's what I think of, but those are these are the psychedelics that they're using MDMA, Ayahuasca, they're also using LSD Sylow, psilocybin, better known psilocybin is also magic mushrooms. So I think it's more or less like micro doses that doctors are giving people. Now, it needs to be noted that these are not legal yet. It's all in like, trial studies, or doctors that are, you know, a little bit progressive and willing to go out on a limb. Like it's not necessarily easy to find this right now. But it's coming. It's we're getting very close to to this being more readily available. What is legal, are ketamine clinics, ketamine, is what I was reading about to yeah, there's actually a ketamine clinic in New York City, that is having really great success with treating patients with it. So I don't know, I don't know that something I would ever be interested in doing. It makes me a little nervous. But my friend that did it had massive, massive benefit from it. I mean, she processed an incredibly traumatic event in her life that she wouldn't have been able to handle otherwise. But again, something that you're going to want to be very careful with and talk to doctors about. And it's not something you're gonna just experiment with and do at home on your own. This is like a whole other ballgame than tripping out on, you know, LSD, it's, it's not the same thing. So be very safe. If you are interested in doing it go about it the right way.

Amy: 9:07

Yeah, I am. It's funny, I have that as one of my trends as well. And what I did read also, which I thought was interesting, and you just mentioned it was that ketamine is the only psychedelic legally available that is available for mental health patients, which I keep hearing more about that. And then the other thing that I had read about this movement is that they've shown significant promise and treating certain mental health conditions like depression, anxiety, etc. And then it said, also for some stats here, it said, the US depression rate has tripled since the start of COVID-19, with nearly 33% of adults reporting depression symptoms according to the Lancet, regional health, America's anxiety is on the rise, as well as symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder, particularly among healthcare workers and COVID-19 survivor survivor so I know that we've been trying to get a gasps just to learn more about this, I agree with you, I don't think I would ever do this. This like, totally freaks me out. I don't like to be out of control. But I guess if you did have a traumatic if you had something traumatic that you couldn't get over, I would definitely do this or if someone in my life was having depression and wasn't able to get over it, I would recommend it. I just think that it's I don't know, it's scary, but I see a

Katie: 10:21

thing. It's not go ahead. And you just said being out of control. I understand. I get the fear of that as well. I think the whole point is, is that it's done in an extremely controlled environment.

Amy: 10:33

Right. So a doctor's with you the whole Yes,

Katie: 10:35

yeah. Yeah, but still, but still like freaks me out nonetheless. I mean, you know, it's

Amy: 10:40

totally i There is an episode I think I was mentioning this to Katie, there's an episode there was this some show on Netflix called goop labs or something like that. And they had a series of different new types of treatments. And one of the episodes was all focused on psychedelics it was out a few years ago, and I watched it and they all were all the people that were trying it went I think you watch to to Katie went to this retreat and like Costa Rica somewhere and tried it, and it really helps a lot of people. But anyway, if our listeners if you guys want to learn more about it, there's that episode on Netflix, but just an interesting trend that I'm sure we'll start to read more about. Moving on. Okay. One of the things that I read there is a report from Pinterest every year called Pinterest predicts, which I thought was really interesting and had like tons of different trends. So we'll we'll put the link up, because it's basically based on searches that people are looking for in Pinterest. So one of the trends that they labeled under wellness trends was called level up. And this is basically saying that Gen Z are looking for ways to raise their vibration and searching for spiritual awakening, and even aura colors. So the searches that are trending here are how to raise your vibration, which is up 145%, how to protect your energy, which is up 60% and frequency healing inquiries, which is up 35%. So this is a good segue because Katie and I interviewed someone named Athena Bari, which we're really excited to have that episode, I think it's going to be launching after this one. And she just launched a book called raise your vibration. So it was good to see that this is something that people are interested in. So stay tuned for that. What? What other trends are you seeing Katie?

Katie: 12:19

So this next trend is something that I do that I i actually have to do it for my health. But at one point, I had to go to the hospital for it. And now I can just go to a spa, it's IV therapy. So IV therapy, and also the use of an A D IV therapy is becoming very trendy, it's very readily available. There is a spa near me called Restore hyper wellness there, they have like 100 locations all over the place, they offer it and you essentially just go in and you get IV fluids and they have all of these different boosters. Depending on kind of like what you think you feel what you feel you need. You can get vitamin C boosters, vitamin D boosters, you can get, like collagen and all these things for your skin, your hair, your nails, like things for muscle recovery. I do it just because of my Addison's disease, I go in and get fluids just to rehydrate. But I asked her I said, you know how many people come in here to like get over a hangover. And she said, shockingly, that's not all because she said we get a lot of people that are very health conscious. And they come in they do it once a week because they want to feel great. They want to be hydrated, and they just want to be like starting their week out. Right. So then I find interesting because I literally used to have to go to the emergency room to get that done. Now I don't have to So yay for that. But the other awesome. Yeah. The other really cool thing though, is that they're offering with the IV therapy is an A D IV therapy. And a D is a coenzyme. There's many benefits to it has it's helped people aid in addiction recovery. It's reduces pain, it affects like inflammation and everything. It can improve your cognitive function, it can boost your energy, it can improve your athletic performance, it's good for weight management, it reverses signs of aging, it can also delay or prevent the onset of certain diseases. But it's much more I don't want to use the word invasive. It's just a much bigger process than going in for IV therapy one afternoon like I do, what I do is I go to this place they hook me up to an IV I sit in a massage chair and I look at Instagram for an hour. This you're going in and you're there for the entire day. And you have to do like three or four you know visits with it and it's incredibly expensive. But but the nurse that that did it she told me that people come in, you know, like if someone is if their health is deteriorating, maybe they're like have autoimmunity kicking in or something like that. This is a good way to potentially stop that and like do an overhaul in your body and become healthy again.

Amy: 14:55

Yeah, I think I just heard a podcast about this. I think it was skinny confidential. Lauren and Michael Bostick were talking about this with these doctors. And they said it's I think he had done it and she wanted to do it he said he felt so incredible afterwards I think it was the same thing. So yeah, that's interesting. And I have a restore wellness near me, which I've been meaning to go to. My friend, my friend Sherry goes all the time and I've been wanting to go with her just haven't had a chance, but it's right around the corner for me. So I definitely want to try that and start incorporating that into my wellness this year. Because I think that will really help to kind of keep keep you your immunity up, especially now that we have both of COVID I think it's important to to keep that so that's awesome that it's near you and near me too. So yeah, for that I've only done it once. And it was for a hangover when I was in Nashville.

Katie: 15:40

Yeah, I've done it when I've been hungover too but there it's it's available in a lot of places. When I when I moved out of New York City, it was just then becoming available where you could actually have someone come to your house and do it for you. But now it's like everywhere I mean med spas have it and I feel like it's reasonably priced at this restore hyper wellness, they actually provide memberships so membership now so it's great. It's good. I think we're probably going to see a lot more of it. So yeah, so yeah, I

Amy: 16:09

think I think it those types of med spas or restore on one's like it they have like those hyperbaric chambers Yes. Like the cold therapy and they have those LED light boots and all that stuff. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. Okay, so moving on. I was reading some nail news in a lor laura.com And here are the eight biggest manicure trends to expect in 2002. So I'm just going to read them off really quickly. Multicolored digits so essentially like all different color nails in one set, which is cute. French versus American manicure. So like the classic versus you know a lot of those American manicures you see and I didn't even know it was called American manicure and I've done it before where you have like fun colors on the tip or different ways to do the manicure not just like the straight line but it's like a diamond or whatever. So that is going to be trending next year. Neutrals neutrals and more neutrals, they said time to DIY DIY sees me which I think definitely got a resurgence over COVID I know that I review the product man me which I still love and use here and there. And I've seen so many nail companies coming out with press on nails, sticker nails, etc. So more of that. 3d decals so fun like pearls and diamonds on like little things to put on your nails to judge them up. Waves work swirls, waves and swirls on nude bases. So really cool designs related to that category. And then the last one they talked about was mixed textures, like you know, a solid on one nail and lines on the other and zigzags on the other and just kind of like playing with fun, different textures. So I'm always looking for new nail fun designs when I go in. So that's what I read on the lore about nails.

Katie: 17:52

My Girls would love that. I'm usually like I either go dark or either go super neutral. I don't like it too funky with it. But I think it's so cool when people do I think it's really cute.

Amy: 18:02

Yeah, I like to go funky with it. Yeah,

Katie: 18:04

I love it. Sometimes it looks great. Yeah, so Did your mom your mom always has like blues and purples and that she gets like yeah, just like playful with it. It's great. Alright, so my next one is something that just kind of popped up. It's funny, I was like inadvertently doing this. And then I stumbled across that this is a trend and we're gonna start to see it more. So we've all heard of veganism. We've all heard of vegetarianism, have you heard of reduce a terian ism, reduce it now. Sounds made up but it is not. So essentially what it is, it's eating less eggs, dairy meat, for the betterment of the planet for your own personal motivations. It's basically you know, people want to push being vegan and vegetarian for you know, the environment and reducing our carbon footprint and, and cleaner water and all of these amazing benefits that eating less meat, dairy eggs would do for the world, but it's very daunting. A vegetarian or vegan diet can really freak people out, right? I mean, who doesn't love a nice ribeye steak I do. So right, this is a way that is really approachable to participate in, you know, trying to improve the environment, reduce your carbon footprint, everything like that without going you know the full monty without totally giving up all the eggs. If you eat eggs for breakfast every day, eat eggs for breakfast once or twice a week. If you put milk in your coffee and your cereal, put almond milk on your cereal, like just like little minimal switches that actually make a huge, huge difference. So this is just a small little way that you can contribute. And also it's good for you. Oh, we all know that eating more plants is really good for you. It fights diabetes, it fights cardiovascular issues. It's good for weight management. So Yeah, I started doing it to help with COVID, I just cut back the amount of meat that I was eating in the last few days just because I feel like I get inflammation when I eat too much of it. And the more plants I eat, you know, the better I'm going to feel sooner rather than later. So that's inadvertently I'm doing reduce at Arianism.

Amy: 20:16

Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because I know we did that episode on plant based diet, which was really educating about if you want to be plant based, here's how to do it. But this is just kind of like a toe in the water. To that it sounds like you're reducing it, which I think you and I probably do intuitively, but you're reducing it instead of not having it at all. So you still get a little bit of it. But you're thinking about ways to reduce it more so for the planet and your health, of course, but I know we talked about in that episode, just egg, which I just wanted to bring up again, because that's a great way to still have eggs, but it's not made from eggs. And so I know that company is kind of exploding right now. I've seen it all over the place since we talked about it. And they're also coming up with new technology. I think, like they have the egg products, but I think they're coming out with chicken. Oh, wow. But I know that they have some new innovations coming out in that space. So it's interesting to see all of these brands and companies coming out to help to embrace the plant based lifestyle and reduce the terian ism. So interesting. Okay, so the next one, I think is relevant for all of us and a lot of women specifically and it is called. This again is from the Pinterest predict study that I read. And it's fin powermat. So managing your money like a boss in 2022 people will take money matters into their own hands as they set out on new journeys towards financial literacy. So millennials are driving the searches behind investment tips, financial education and investment property for beginners. So investment tips was up 195% This year, passive income tips are up 35% financial education was up 155% Financial Planning bullet journal was up 90%. And investment property for beginners was up 45%. So super important. We have someone coming on the show a lot of fun and a couple of episodes that is going to talk all about fin Powerman. But I think it's interesting to see that this is a rising trend. I think obviously this category has always been important. But I think more and more it seems that younger millennials and people just coming into the workforce are not only looking to save money through or 401k. But they're looking for how can I invest and there's all these apps now people aren't using like the traditional banking methods anymore. They're using all of these new apps like Robin Hood, and Katie, you are seeing you're using one name Alibaba, there's all these new ways to manage your money. And I think it's interesting that people are looking now for a lot more ways to not only diversify their income, but even make more money side hustles, etc. So any thoughts on this one? Katie?

Katie: 22:55

Yeah, I mean, I just I think it's great. I think it's so empowering. I know, as a young 20 Something I was never really taught money management from my parents, it was not really my dad's strong suit, like even my brothers and I, we all had to kind of learn that on our own. So I found myself kind of leaning more towards my husband to take the reins on that. And then a couple years ago, I was sick of being in the dark. And I educated myself on all of our finances. And now you know, I can look into our portfolio whenever and I know everything that's going on constantly, and it is so empowering. It makes such a huge difference. I just I think it's I think it's brilliant. I'm, I'm very happy that the world is going in that direction instead of people just kind of flying by the seat of their pants, hoping that their paychecks are gonna make ends meet and everything's gonna be okay. So yeah, I think that's, that's great. I'm excited to talk to this guest this that's coming up about it.

Amy: 23:53

Yeah, it's interesting that you say that I think growing up, we probably I don't think we talked about like financial planning so much. But we did talk about managing money, somewhat. But I think now it's much more open and relevant, because Stu is always talking to the kids about different investments he's doing or different ways were diversifying our money. We both talked about it. And I've been getting more educated as well. I mean, I've always been somewhat, you know, financially savvy, but not in the way that Stu is. And he's taught me a lot. But I've also invested in a few companies myself this year, and just in a way to teach myself how to do investing or how to follow companies or startups and different things. So yeah, I'm excited to learn more about this.

Katie: 24:36

Those are great trends and very exciting. And I am super pleased to say that we have a lot of guests that are going to touch on most of those topics, actually that we just covered. So look forward to that. And yeah, Amy, you have one more

Amy: 24:52

Yeah, I have one last trend just like I did a nail speed round. I'm going to do a beauty speed round. I did some researching here. I'm quoting a website called Pure Wow which talks about nine beauty trends that they're predicting are going to be big next year according to the pros that they interview so the first one is glitter so glitter and shadow and makeup you know that's still I think that's been around but I think more so that they're gonna we're gonna see more of that line lips so this 90 is inspired trend like the welds of my life and it's funny because I've been looking at a lot of, I don't know tiktoks Instagram rails lately of people using like a new liner with a new lipstick and I actually just saw this yesterday and I wanted to get this Tom Ford lipstick because it was so pretty and of course it's sold out but that's definitely starting to trend so like that lined lips with lipstick look, double winged liner which I've seen here and there. It's kind of cool. I don't know how into it I will be but definitely fun to see and really creative looks people are using with double winged liner statement blush. So different ways to use blush, whether using it not just on your cheeks, but using it for contour. I also read about people using purple for blush, so people just playing around with a lot of blush, which I love. Peekaboo highlights, so people doing highlights, but more kind of like under their hair or on the bottoms. Just fun little ways to put highlights in your hair. Modern day mullet which I hate. You're seeing celebrities kind of embrace the mullet look, which I think is yeah, I've seen it like they were showing an example of Rihanna with some like mullet look which I can't stand. But anyway, it was on the list, long layers, which I think have been kind of in style, but like the curtain bangs, then the long layers, so that's a fun one. Another one is textured hair, which is kind of like that look where you have waves, but it looks kind of wet and texturing. So that's another one that I read about. And then the last one I read about was gender fluid beauty. So products being launched that are gender inclusive, which is great. So that is my beauty Speed Round, nice, I guess our trends Nirvana sisters family, like Katie said a lot of this stuff we'll be covering over the year. And I think there are so many more that were exciting. But these were the ones that kind of popped for us and things that we thought were relevant to our audience. But we'll put in all of these links in our show notes, you can read more about all these trends and different sources to find them. So super fun. It was I love doing this and kind of going in and reading about stuff and coming back as a reporter and talking about all these different trends. So so this is our first episode doing trends, but I think it's something that we should probably look to throughout the year to do little short episodes around trends or little, little, you know, topics that our listeners might be interested in. So if there's anything that you all are interested in that you want us to do some reporting on, let us know. And we'll do some research around that. Yeah,

Katie: 27:47

I like that. Some of those quick round trends that you just noted, I some of them sound great. And some of them freak me out like the purple blush. I don't know if I'm going to be. But yeah, I'm sure to look fabulous on someone. All right. So that was a lot of fun. Let's wrap with a mantra as we do. And you know, it's a new year. It's a new start. So how about this? Today is a fresh start, I welcome each positive opportunity with a thankful heart. I set my own pace, always moving forward. Even amongst chaos, I can find my own peace. And that was a few mantras and one but I like it because you know, New Year New Start. Lots going on. So good one to remember.

Amy: 28:33

Yeah, that is a good one. And I think we're recording this week after Christmas right before New Year's and I think that's always a week where I try to write goals and try to think about things I want to do for next year. So that's really relevant and good to remember. And hopefully you all enjoyed this episode, and we look forward to next week's episode. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 33 - Gratitude, Self-Care, & Pausing To Be A Better You (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 33 Gratitude, Self-Care, & Pausing To Be A Better You.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a form of fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Welcome back to the show, everyone. It's Amy and Katie today. And before we get moving with the show, I think we all should just take a quick breath. So I'm going to do it and you follow me because I know that I need it today. So ready, go. Okay, I really needed that guys, because I am feeling very overwhelmed lately. Katie knows this. It's towards the end of the year. There's so much going on, I feel like so many plans to be made. And I just got a new puppy. And you know, it sounds silly because it is amazing having a new puppy. But I have to say it is like having a newborn again. Except I'm much older. And I feel like I have to keep my eyes on her every second. And I have no time to myself. Because every time I try to go to the bathroom, take a shower, she's either in my room all over me has to go outside. And so I just feel like I've had no time to myself. So I was telling my family last night, I'm feeling very overwhelmed. And I need to take a step back. And I need them to help me do that. Because I've just been all over the place. So our episode this week is really about moving into the new year, taking a pause, looking back on the year and trying to balance and organize ourselves. So we're going to the New Year strongly. And I know Katie and I have been having a lot of these conversations offline because we are loving our podcast. And we love all of our listeners and all of our guests. But we do need time to take a step back and kind of think about next year and who we want on the show and what you guys want and how we want to kind of grow this community that we love so much. So we're taking time over the next few weeks to do that. And in this episode, we're going to talk about kind of balance, we're going to talk about some holiday weight loss things that we've been thinking about just a urine review a little bit, take a moment of gratitude, and just talking about how we can take care of ourselves over this busy season because the holidays are great time. And I'm really excited to move into Thanksgiving and the holidays. But they can also be somewhat stressful because you got to plan things, and you're going out a lot and seeing people which is all great, because we haven't been able to do it. And I think everyone's excited to do it. But it does have this feeling of moving quickly. And I just want to enjoy the moment and be kind of at peace and be in the present. And I'm just trying to do that. So Katie, can you help me with this? What are your thoughts? Yeah, I

Katie: 3:05

mean, also the holidays brings on more fun and partying than we probably any of us really, truly need in our lives, like as fabulous as it is. And as exciting as it is to see our friends. And to do these things, it can just totally throw us out of whack. Like I already feel in the weeds to begin with. I feel unorganized. I feel like you know, there's so much going on, we can't get on top of it. And now we've got to throw the holidays into the mix. And then there's the holiday parties and all of this and then I'm dragging and I just don't feel good. So it's a very difficult time I find for people to tune into themselves and to take care of themselves. And that's kind of what we're here as your reminder to try to do like, we're not saying beat yourself up if you aren't able to do it. But just try to remember to also take care of yourself through the wrap up of the end of this crazy year.

Amy: 3:52

Yeah, I know that I since I got the puppy. I haven't been working out as much. And I think that's why I feel so unbalanced and unorganized. Because I've been taking the time for myself to work out. So that's really getting on my nerves. So I need to start, like ASAP getting back on schedule with working out because I think that will make the rest of my days and weeks better. What about UK? Yeah, it just shows you moved. You were saying

Katie: 4:16

since since we moved, it's like really, really hard to get on in a routine. And it just goes to show like a major shift in anyone's life. Like whether it's a new baby, a new puppy, a new house, a new job, anything. It can really throw you out of whack, and it can be really hard to get back on track. I mean, it's our whole thing. And just so everyone knows, like we struggle with it, too. So yeah, I mean, I have only been able to get my workouts on like maybe twice a week, and I could feel it and I definitely feel like I'm edgier. I have a shorter temper. I am just not like a peace and present and calm as much as I would like to be. So yeah, I agree. I'm really I think us taking this cause is, is is gonna be great on so many levels, not just for Nirvana sisters, but personally also,

Amy: 5:06

yeah, I am feeling good about it. And I just need to set some mini goals for myself like, with working out, I definitely feel like I need to be doing at least five minutes of meditation, I've been totally off that practice and I need to be doing like my five minute meditation, I need to do some gratitude practice. And I feel that when we do get busy, those are the things that fall to the wayside. But then it almost makes it worse because it makes you more stressed out. And we know this because we talk about it all the time. But when you're in a busy time, it's good to just remember so this is our way of remembering and telling our community to remember to do this too, even if it's five minutes of walking five minutes and meditation. So with all this being said, let's do our nirvana of the week. Katie, why don't you start?

Katie: 5:50

So mine is kind of funny. And it's like a little unexpected for me. But do you ever have like, Have you ever had a song where you've heard maybe in a TV show, or you've heard it on the radio? You've heard it in a movie, like over a year's time, and every time you hear a little bit of it, you're like, I love that song? What is that song? Yeah, I had a song like that for I don't know how long like the better part of my life. And I'm always whenever I hear and I'm like, oh, I need to figure out what that is. I figure out what it is. And I never do. Well, the other day, the song came on the radio at like on Sirius. So it had the title and the artist, and it's hard. Oh my god. Do you know Harvest Moon by Neil Young?

Amy: 6:32

I think so. It's really listening to that. No way. Like, I feel like you told me about it or something.

Katie: 6:38

It was after you left? And uh, no, because this was all after you left. And I have probably I want to say this was on Monday because I was going to the grocery store. I have probably listened to it 100 times. It's the only thing I've listened to since I heard it. I'm playing it on repeat like a psychopath. But it's brought a young boy. Yeah. Like, honestly, I should play I'm just gonna play like a second or two of it. Ooh. And you're Yeah, and you'll know it but

Amy: 7:15

don't know if I know the song.

Katie: 7:17

Very like the first line is so good. I'll stop it after that.

Amy: 7:27

Oh, yeah, I know the song. So it reminds me of the Grateful Dead actually, it has that kind of vibe. And I feel like I heard this. Maybe Adam played it when I was there. Because I'm telling you, I heard that song with you when I was there this weekend. And it's a great song. And I'm gonna download it and it's definitely a mellow vibe. I love it.

Katie: 7:44

Yeah. And it's also like, it's about Harvest Moon, which is the fall and I'm of what I really like about it. It's about a couple that have been together for years and years and years and years. And they're still in love. And it's like, huh, like, like they're trying to spark that like young love feeling again, you know, it's good. So anyway, it's probably nirvana. Yeah, it's been like epic. Oh, I

Amy: 8:05

love it. I'm gonna definitely do that. I'm going to add it in. Maybe I'll listen to it when I do a little workout later. Yeah. Meyers, Ana, there's a few things I would say I was visiting Adam and Katie, my brother Adam and Katie obviously, and the girls last weekend, which was fabulous, because a I had like a little time to myself, but be I'm just really happy for you, Katie. And so happy with your move and your new community. I just felt really good being there. And I felt really happy for you and settled and that made me happy and that made me feel Nirvana because you guys really chose the right community to be in and Adam had this vision and he was right and it's such a nice warm community where he moves and I just felt so good for you that you guys were starting out in such a positive way with the girls that are really good age to move. So that brought me a lot of nirvana. We also have a special guests that were booking that I won't say that will probably be into the new year. So that also brought me a lot of Nirvana being that I pretty much manifested this person to come on our show, so I'm really excited about that too. Yeah, let's move on to some holiday eating weight loss. So when Katie and I were together, I had told her that I recently lost about 15 pounds

Katie: 9:23

doing lose my mind because you don't even look like you have 15 pounds to lose ever.

Amy: 9:28

Thank you. I felt that I put on a lot of quarantine weight and it was really I felt like more water retention and inflammation just because I wasn't paying attention I was eating I was I mean for the most part eating clean but definitely probably indulging more and then when I was indulging probably not taking a step back and like trying to eat healthy again. So I was just like off you know how sometimes you just get off and you get into a stage where you just feel bloated and you look at pictures and you're like oh, I don't like the way look and I don't like the way they feel. So I did this thing called Octavia which I was very against actually because I've known about For years, I know people that have done it. And you can lose a lot of weight from it, but I was very against it. Because you know, I actually don't think the ingredients are that bad, but it's packaged. And I was like, it's not organic. It's not fresh. I like to eat everything fresh and whatever. But Nicole, honestly, and Whole Foods Exactly. But honestly, I've been so busy that I was like, let me just do this and see. And I also am not one to make like, meals for myself so much, because I'm always on the run. So I do like to grab things and have more snacks throughout the day. So I was like, You know what, I need to lose a quick way, you know, 10 pounds, let me just try it. So I the way that the program works is you have a coach and my friend Stephanie, when I was visiting her over the summer had been doing it and she told me her coach, and I was like, set me up with her because it was someone I don't know someone that lives in Texas. She's so sweet. I've asked her a million questions. And she's sort of my Coach and Trainer along the way. And the reason why I personally thought that was helpful is because a lot of people this has become like a, I don't know what they call like multi level marketing, or whatever they call it, where people do the program, and then they become coaches. And it's a whole thing. But it is good to have a coach. But I did find that it was really helpful to have a coach that I didn't know, because there are people in my community that sell the products that I know. And I just didn't want to have to like, talk to someone that I knew and tell them my ups and downs and ask them all my silly questions. So it was actually really nice to have a somewhat anonymous person in my life that I could just ask a quick question to like, Hey, am I eating the right this or my eating right that so anyway, though, I'll probably do a full review on the program. And we were actually talking about maybe having one of our nutrition experts or contributors to the show to talk a little bit more about it. Because I know generally speaking, it's not good to lose a lot of weight in a quick manner. But I do have to say I have been on it since probably, I would say August, September, October. So it has been three years. It's not like I lost 10 pounds overnight, so I have lost 15 pounds, I'm looking to lose a few pounds more. So that way, when I gain some holiday weight, it won't be so drastic, but it has really helped because I do feel 1000 times better. I was telling Katie, I do not feel bloated at all, my stomach is flat, I feel so much better. So I think I just my body kind of flushed out all the things that I didn't need and that weren't serving me. And this will be a really good basis moving into the new year. So we'll probably go more in depth on it. But it was just something I wanted to mention because it was definitely one of these things where I was like, I'm not sure if I want to do a program like this, but it has actually been really helpful. Another one that I've used in the past is called proline, which I did a few years ago and I've done it a few times. And it's kind of like a one week almost fast. And it's more like soups and like very minimal food. It's almost like mimicking fasting but you are eating and I've done that too. And that's good for like a quick cleanse, you lose a few pounds and you kind of feel good, but that's just like a quick thing to do over the holidays that I know some people do to kind of get a you know, flush out if you will. But Katie, I know you have some some tips for holiday eating as well.

Katie: 13:08

Yeah, well really fast. I just want to touch on Octavia because, I mean you look great and what's most important is that you feel great. But we also know other people that have had really good success stories on it. It's kind of like this little hidden secret I feel like so, you know, listeners let us know if you want to learn more about it. And you know, next season we could probably do an in depth episode on it like you were saying but I think it could potentially help a lot of people that are you know, like stuck with some stubborn weight. Mine is was so my go to, you know, like I said because of the move I was just like out of whack and not really eating very well not on a great routine. So my reset is Pete's paleo. It's this fantastic, like food ordering service that I found during the pandemic when I was just so sick and tired of cooking and then I would not cook so I would end up just like putting a mishmash of random things together for dinner and it would be just like a really unhealthy dinner and I would feel like garbage the next day. So I ordered this. It's pizza paleo.com And

Amy: 14:14

basically you might have reviewed this or talked about and

Katie: 14:17

we talked I think it was one of my miliar it was one of my Nirvana's because it was it Yeah. My meals are so good. So what you do is you you order by Monday and then they have these weekly menus like here's here's an upcoming menu, white truffle and portabella chicken thighs with chives, mashed potatoes and roasted broccoli, thyme roasted turkey with artichoke and phenyl don't know how to say that word and roasted red rutabagas so on so the they're really really tasty meals that they prepare fresh and then shipped to you fresh within days times. And this is a chef, this is an actual chef This is his company and he he puts it together and the meals are So like savory and delicious, it's not it's not what you would think when you get like something that's pre packaged. They're really, really, really good and satisfying.

Amy: 15:09

And they're How do you meet them? Yeah, get in the microwave anything. It's like literally microwave like how does it come as a come frozen it comes,

Katie: 15:18

it comes fresh, but with like a freezer ice pack that keeps it fresh until you can put it into your refrigerator or freezer. And like these black things that are vacuum sealed. And so I toss mine in the freezer, you can keep them in the refrigerator. And then I just stand to

Amy: 15:35

put them in the microwave like in that the whole data that comes in, you just pop

Katie: 15:39

it in. And it's like it steams inside of the bag and reheat it. And it's really, really like the meat is super moist and juicy and fresh. And the flavors are always great. And so the reason why it works for me is because a it's a perfect portion size. It's a perfect balance of like protein to, to veggies to like starch. And it's paleo which is for those of you that aren't familiar, the Paleolithic diet is it's really geared towards people with autoimmune disease, but it just essentially helps fight inflammation, which is like the bane of my existence. I'm always dealing with inflammation because of my autoimmune stuff. So there's certain foods that are not like there's never any dairy. There's never What about gluten? There's never any gluten. There's never any like this child mashed potato is probably not a white potato. Like there's not you know, like there's certain starches that are not in there. There's never any preservatives, gums fillers, like none of that stuff. It's super so you feel

Amy: 16:46

like when you eat it, you feel you don't feel bloated at all, because that's how I guess thing, right? Not

Katie: 16:52

at all. And it's very filling and satisfying. And it's it's whole foods like so you'll look at the most and it's every single item is a whole food. You know, there's a Yeah, and

Amy: 17:00

is it? Is it just dinners or is it lunches and breakfasts like what's the You Can

Katie: 17:05

Do they do have breakfast they do have I think the lunches are probably just it would just be the same meals like you just use them however you choose to use them. They do offer breakfast, I've never done it. And you can get all different packages you can get like this past two weeks, I've just been getting a delivery of five every week. But I before I've done deliveries of 10 and like Adam eats them and Madeline eats them. So

Amy: 17:27

I think do it eat that too. I'm gonna try that. And it's, it's paleo like you can't order vegan if you're vegan or vegetarian, they

Katie: 17:33

don't have they do have like some food options. But I think it's more like AIP, which is really hardcore, an autoimmune protocol that I've tried to do, it's just been even more restrictive at one time, they did have like ketogenic offerings and things like that, but I don't, I don't think they're doing that anymore.

Amy: 17:49

So it just sounds to your point, like a healthy balanced meal. And honestly, with Octavia, the way that you do it is you eat these, what they call fueling. So basically little meals or snacks, you eat like five of them a day, but one of your meals is a regular meal, which is essentially protein in grains. So they call it like a lean and green, but you basically eat a lean protein and a lot of greens. So this sounds like it would be a nice way so I don't have to make it and I could just heat it up. And it also sounds like it might be a good transition for when I start to eat more like maybe I would have one of those for lunch instead of a salad or, or instead of a snack or whatever.

Katie: 18:26

Absolutely. It's, it's great. It's really good and seasonings always great. And you know what we really like? It's like the perfect amount of salt. Sometimes you get those kind of meals. And it's like they're they can be bland, like these are really well seasoned. They're really good. So I highly recommend no surprise,

Amy: 18:41

you really use that to keep on track and to keep it as an easy way to get healthy meals. So when you're feeling off and you've eaten crappy, like you'll go back to just eating that every day. And you'll feel like it's a good way to get you back on track eating healthy. Yeah, yeah. And I feel really good. It's early for weight loss, but in a way clean. Like is very clean and healthy eating.

Katie: 19:00

Yeah, good cleaning. Like I mean, you know, like I'm more regular when I do it. And I just feel better. And yeah, I don't wake up like puffy or bloated. I don't feel bloated up. Yeah,

Amy: 19:10

it's good. I'm going to try this. I'm going to try this over the holidays and moving into the new year because I think that's really good. I think it's good for Stu too, because especially for lunch, he's always you know, he'll run to Balducci's or Whole Foods or wherever the grocery store and just get something prepared and eat it. But I feel like something like this is probably better because you know what's in it and a bit healthier. So yes, sounds great. All right, awesome. So we'll keep you guys posted on how the how the holiday goes in terms of our eating. But I think if we're incorporating and we're thinking about what we're eating, obviously, like I also think it's healthy, to have fun to drink to eat, and all the and all the fun things because that's the fun part about the holidays. It's about being present with your family and friends. It's about having good food and celebrating and we should be doing all that but then on the days that we're not doing that we should be making sure that we're better liking and like eating healthy again, just to, you know, set it apart. So you're having just certain days where you're not eating as well. And then I think that makes makes for good balance. And so I think being really intuitive about that is helpful as well as you know, meditation and movement. I also I was listening to a podcast this morning, I only got five minutes in, but I'm going to listen to it later, when I go for a ride to do some errands. Brooke Dillard on naked beauty planet, she has her naked beauty podcasts. And I love her. She's awesome. And she was really good content on her shows. And the one that launched it was either, I think it was this week was around organization. And she's doing a bunch of episodes from now to the end of the year that are basically kind of like setting you up for the new year. And as you go into the holiday in the new year, different things to be helpful. So this one's on organization, I think she's gonna have like a bunch of different people come in and talk about different things as they as you move into the new year. But the person that was on her show started talking about Oregon organizing and organizing all your skincare products and all your beauty products because we have like a million and they could cause a mess. And my son is organized, but I call it like organized chaos. Like I know where everything is, but it's not super neat. It's kind of neat, but there's just like a lot of stuff. So anyway, I was listening to her and I'm excited to listen to that episode. Well, we'll post it because it sounds like this woman who's on has a lot of really good tips around not only organizing your beauty staples and your products, but also closets and all that. So I always holidays try to get really organized like Katie knows I do my pantry. And that's like I love doing it. But sometimes in where I had stopped in the podcast, which I listened to later was she's talked about getting in the mindset of organizing, because I think too, you get really overwhelmed with the thought of organizing and then you don't do it because you see all the clutter and you see all the stuff you have to do. And it's just like you don't know where to start. So I'm really interested to hear what she has to say about that. Because you do have to kind of psych yourself up to do organization project. Yeah, it's super organized Katie, like much more organized than I am. Yeah, but still,

Katie: 22:04

I could be better and like, like, you know, I mean, you saw we were saddled with the house except for like my closet. Right? I haven't taken the time to do the thing that is like my thing. And it's a

Amy: 22:15

drain. I'm sure it's overwhelming. Yeah, it is

Katie: 22:17

very overwhelming the thought of getting into it. But yeah, you have to get it's funny. So you'd like to organize around the holidays I like to I always like tend to organize in the spring, like the spring cleaning thing. But I mean, I still need to do it. I like when I when I have

Amy: 22:30

well, like when I have time usually between Christmas and New Year's I'll usually like go to The Container Store and get like fun containers and just try to organize because it's funny, I really actually love organizing. And I like doing it for other people to like I did it in my parents house. Like for my dad's library I've done like I do people's pantries like I love to actually do it once I'm in the mode. But it kind of takes me a little while to get into the mode and to do it myself, like my office is a disaster. And I feel like I need there's so many areas of clutter that I need to organize and clean up. I just haven't done it because I can't get my head around doing it. But that's one of my goals to do over the holidays. But I usually do like want to do organizing projects over the holidays or I try to we shouldn't she's

Katie: 23:13

a picture of your dad's office. It was so good. I want to do that with my office.

Amy: 23:16

Yeah, there's something like cathartic about doing it, because I think you should really good afterwards, and the person feels really good. That's actually what this woman was saying on the podcast this morning that she really she was like he used to be a beauty editor and all these different things. And she got into the organizing space. And she found that when she started doing this for people, they felt like like a weight was lifted off of them. And she loved giving them that feeling. So I need to do some organizing projects, for sure. So yeah, lots of organizing projects. I'm sure Katie, you have a lot of stuff to do around the house that you're excited to. Again, depending on

Katie: 23:46

how you said like you it's really it takes a weight off of you. So this past weekend, when you're at my house and your girlfriend and her kids came over, like the girls totally had the best time with our playroom, but it looked like the absolute bomb exploded afterwards. And it's been like that for the last few days. And every time I look at it, I'm like, Oh, it's so much it's too much. I don't have time for it. And like Frankie walked by it ever a million times. It was on my to do list every single day this week. Finally, this morning, I just did it. I just got up and did it. Reese helped me before she went to school, it did not take nearly as much time as I thought it was going to and now it's like light and airy. I can breathe. I feel like a normal human again. Because that one room isn't haunting me. You know, it really is

Amy: 24:31

so true. And that happens to me all the time. And there's so many things where I will look out for literally a year and be like, I can't get my head around doing it. But um, I know what I was gonna say before what I was gonna say is this woman was also talking about which is so true, is it's easy to be organized once you have a system. So I remember when I first moved to my house I had someone helped me organize my kitchen and she set it up and I've literally use the same system ever since. So it's like once you have that system, even if you're not super organized, you can be organized so I just set up Some stuff in my bathroom, like some ways to have my products out. And now I have a system. So I know where to put my wash at night. I have my wife, like, as long as you have a system, I feel like it really helps with organizing. So yeah, it's good. We'll get to some organizing. And then what about just kind of like, our year, we've had the show for a year. I have, like so many ideas, and so many growth plans. And we're so excited. And just thank you to everyone who has supported us from the beginning and listening and helping us to grow. We're so great. We're so grateful. Katie, what were what have been some of your kind of highs over the last year of launching and sustaining this podcast and brand?

Katie: 25:39

Yeah, it's been. I mean, we're so grateful to everyone that's been on the show. It's been such a highlight of mine. Finally, doing something aside from motherhood, has really given me so much confidence. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love being a mom. It's the most amazing gift in the world. It's also a very hard job. But like I needed something more I was a career woman at one point, and it just feels really good to, to be like mentally stimulated and creative. And it's also so fun talking to these people and learning so much. And also it's funny. It's given me like better people skills, like just moving to a new town. And now I have no problem meeting somebody and chatting it up with them and asking them about it. It's like I'm like, naturally an interviewer now, which is so funny. It's not a byproduct that I expected. But it's been great. I mean, I feel like we've learned so much. And it's been just such a joy, being with you every week and then getting to know these new people. It's brought me a lot of nirvana. I mean, just last week, Amy and I had a meeting when she came in town with Ann fryer who was a guest on our show on the first season. And I was like the coolest day because we sat with an fryer and talked about growth and expansion. And then we went to see another guest, we went to see Meredith Quill from Beckett and Quill and went to her trunk show and I literally felt like a career woman again, which is a feeling I haven't had and I don't know, nine years. So so fun. It's been it's been amazing. What about you?

Amy: 27:09

Yeah, I feel the same. I mean, I, there's so many things, I think being able to launch my own thing has been so amazing for me personally, because I work full time, I have a really busy demanding job, which I love. And it's creative, and it's great. But it's a big company. It's very corporate. And I've been there a long time. And I felt like I needed an outlet, and a way to be entrepreneurial again, because I tried to be entrepreneurial within my organization. But it's hard. It's just big, and it's great. But it's great in different ways. So I it's so nice to have my own thing with you that we can create ourselves, that we can edit ourselves that we can press that button, it goes live globally, we can talk about what we want to talk about, we can do the creative we want to do, it's just nice having my own creative outlet, that's a passion for me and to be able to talk about and be connected to it and talk to all these people and learn so many things that I'm so interested in. And it's just been a really nice outlet for me. And I feel like it's made me so much more well rounded, because it's interesting. And I feel like people want to hear about it. And it just I think it really has rounded me out because I have a really big corporate working marketing background. But now I have sort of this content creation creative side that I still do at work, but some of it has been lacking. So it's just nice to be able to have that outlet for myself and to be able to start building this brand together. And of course doing it with you makes it a bazillion times better. Like it's so funny, even though we're close before now. I feel like we're so bonded. We talk all the time, like I don't even talk to my brother. My parents are always like, Oh, if you talk to Adam and like, Katie, they're like Katie told me this. I'm like, yeah, now she texts me this morning like we're so synched up. Yeah, and it's really rare, because everyone I've talked to is like, Oh my God, that's so amazing. You have a podcast with your sister in law, and you guys are so close. And I was like, Yeah, it really is amazing, because it is unique. Yeah. And it's such a nice way for us to connect, but also to build a business and to like, build this brand and community together is so much fun. And we have all the same interest. So it's just been really meaningful. And I think it's brought me obviously a lot of Nirvana and joy, to keep it going. And I think we also have to give ourselves grace. Because Katie and I have these conversations all the time. We just we have so many ideas for this show that we want to do, which we will do and we have so just so much going on. And we definitely need time to take, take that pause and reflect and move into the new year with a really good plan of action and being rested. And even though this is like a it's an enjoyable thing for us to do. I'm all about momentum as Katie knows, I feel like we have to keep her Do swing and miss moment every week did it. But it's but it's stalling me from really taking a step back and thinking about okay, what guests do we want to have on next year? And who do we want to, you know, go after and, you know, just a shout out to all of our guests too, because everyone that's been on the show has been truly part of our Nirvana sisters family, and I've really an entire aligns with what we're all about, and have inspired us, but also have said, Yes, and there's a lot of people, it takes time to do this. I mean, you know, it takes half an hour, hour, whatever it is out of the day, but I think people say yes, because they look at it as a really good time to connect with people. And the way that we do it is very comfort, conversational and fun. So I don't think it's looked at upon as a chore. I think people actually like to get away from their day to day and talk to new people. So thank you to all of our guests who have been on the show and have been helping us to grow. And thank you for the ones that have come back. And you'll be still coming back and contributing to the show for years to come. So just feeling really grateful that we've now have, this will be I think, Episode 3233.

Katie: 31:04

This is our 33rd Yeah. Which is incredible

Amy: 31:08

over a year. I mean, so many people that I've talked to that knew us when we were first launching this a year ago, and we were trying to come up with the name and we were teaching ourselves how to do everything. They're like, Oh my God, you have all these downloads, and you have this whole show, and you have so much content. It's incredible. And I really loved this episode and this product. So it just brings me a lot of joy. And I feel very well rounded and happy and really in my creative zone when we're doing it. So yeah, long story short,

Katie: 31:35

it's uh, it's amazing how like, we've had a lot of hurdles it hasn't been easy. We do everything soup to nuts. I don't know if people know that. I mean, we do we do all the editing, we do all the bookings, we do the whole nine. And there's been times where it's been so stressful to try to make it work, but I think having each other and this is like something that people should should take on if you're if you're trying to get on do something on your own. Go find a partner because having Amy to like, keep me in the game when I'm not and and to bounce ideas off of advisor. Yeah, like, it's It's crucial. I mean, it's crucial. It's been so uh, Kevin, you know, a partner. And we have, we're very fortunate and blessed. I think we have like a really healthy working relationship, in addition to personal sisterhood. But yes, it's, it's definitely, it hasn't been easy. And the exciting thing is, is that we're now we're like growing and expanding. And so true, you can be so in the weeds, you can be so in it, that it's hard to see outside of it, and what else you have to do to make it bigger. So like Amy said, we're going to step back for a few weeks, I had to twist her arm to get there, but Miss momentum, I gotta agree to it. And we're going to focus on bringing you bigger things, new things, exciting things, and we're just gonna keep keep growing. And we would love to hear from our listeners, like, what do you guys want from us? It would be really exciting, you know, like, let us know. And instead, I think, yeah,

Amy: 33:02

we'd love to hear your ideas. And I just to echo what you were saying, Katie, I 100% agree that having a partner has completely changed the game for me, because yes, we have each other's back, we motivate each other, we keep each other accountable, and props. And, you know, shout outs to my husband, Stu, because he was the one when I was talking to him a year, year and a half ago. And I was like, I definitely want to start something I don't know what it is. And he was like, you know, you really need a partner. Because you have so many ideas that like you, you need someone to bounce them off like another woman who can really connect with you. And obviously Katie was like the first person I thought of like, this would be such a good idea for us to do together because we're always talking about this stuff. But I didn't recognize it myself. I always feel like I have to do everything myself. And then it never happens. Because it's just it's too hard to start. So having a partner for anyone listening that's wanting to start a business wanting to start a whatever it may be. I think having that partner is crucial to talk through things and get in the nitty gritty because you know, your husband and your friends don't want to hear about it all the time that like you'll talk about it with your partner every second and get into the minutiae of everything. And it's just so, so helpful to have and excited and it's fun. Yeah, it makes it more fun. Exactly. 100%. Moving on. As we close out the episode, I think Katie might have a nice mantra for us. But again, just wanted to tell our listeners to have a great holiday season, take care of yourself. We are going to be every day intentionally trying to do that. I definitely feel better after having this conversation. Katie, I've been so stressed and I feel like I can breathe again. I feel a lot more relaxed. So I'm going to take this energy and move it into like the rest of the holiday season. I hope you feel the same way and I hope our audience feels the same way. And yeah, we'll continue to be talking to you all on Instagram and email and however you want to reach us. We're here at Nirvana sisters. Um, we're going to be producing a lot of content over the next few weeks to that will will launch in 2022 at the start of the new year. So we're really excited about that. But definitely keep in touch. And we'll continue to be, you know, putting out a lot of social content and tips and tricks and all of the things.

Katie: 35:15

Yeah, and look out for us one on Instagram, because our past guests, they have a great exciting holiday things going on that we're going to share with you. So yeah, definitely tune in for that. Okay, so

Amy: 35:27

just closing out with some thoughts. I don't know if this is necessarily a mantra, it might just be a quote, but I was on LinkedIn yesterday, and this woman who I don't know, I'm following her, her name is Sarah Kay. She is a creative thinker, brand innovation. She's an author of the book brand new world, which I'm going to try to read. And she put out a really amazing post, which I'll share on our social, but it was really about embracing your uniqueness. And it was a whole paragraph about when you get feedback from people how that can, you know, you take it so seriously, and then you don't defend yourself and you become someone that you're not. And anyway, there was one part of it, which I really liked, which said, your uniqueness is perfect, never apologize for it, on the contrary, dial it up. So I just love that because it just basically is saying, Be yourself and don't apologize for it. And I think it's a good thing for us all to remember because we sometimes hide who we are, depending on the environment that we are. So I think that is so helpful. So that's my kind of words of wisdom. And thank you, Sarah, if you're listening from LinkedIn, I will definitely share this. It's a whole paragraph and I thought it was super empowering.

Katie: 36:38

I love that. Yeah, that's very true. All right. Well, I love what you said, because it's very true. It's yeah, it's like don't dim your light around other people and everything. I mean, I feel like I'm guilty of doing that from time to time. So it's a good reminder. But let's suppose let's close with a little mantra that I think is on par with what we have going on right now. So it is I'm slowing down and creating space to rest replenish and take care of me. And I think we're both going to do that and we're also going to do that for Nirvana sisters. So yeah, deeper 100%

Amy: 37:15

in and out. Thank you so much everyone and we will chat soon. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 32 - When Nature Is Healing With PMDD Warrior And Floral Artist, Lisa Composto (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 32.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Unknown: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a form of fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started.

Unknown: 0:37

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters podcast. This week. We are super excited to have someone very dear to me. My cousin Lisa composto. Lisa is a floral artist. Her company is composed of Yari, She's based in Houston, Texas. It was through Lisa's passion for paintings that she fell in love with floristry and capturing the drama between light and shadow through her floral photography, which is so cool. While she's tried many creative endeavors she's most passionate about this one and her desire to share her flower stories through creative soulful experiences. Lisa is also someone that was recently diagnosed with a chronic illness and she is determined to inspire uplift, encourage others to follow their dreams and advocate for their health. And I am really excited to talk about all of that. She is a beautiful person inside and out lives in the present moment and aspires to triumph through life's challenges while embracing every moment with gratitude. So she could not be a more perfect guest for us this week, my sister so highly. So thanks for being here. Thank you so much. I'm so

Amy: 1:44

excited to be welcome. So nice to meet you.

Unknown: 1:48

Thank you, Amy. I love that this family is connecting in new ways. And that's the magic of technology these days. Right?

Amy: 1:55

And by the way, Katie has so many cousins. It's so funny. I feel like every time I'm with Katie, she either mentions a cousin that she has that's fabulous like you or we run into remember we ran into your cousin like last Nashville. It's just so funny because I don't have a lot of cousins. So I always just find it so amazing. I love it. Yeah, I mean, like family,

Unknown: 2:13

we do it to break it down. My mom has six siblings, and my dad has six siblings, so that's why I love it. All right, well, let's kick it off with our nirvana of the week. Amy, I'm gonna kick it to you. What was your Nirvana this week?

Amy: 2:28

Yeah, so we got a new puppy. And she's literally the most adorable thing. Her name is Skye. She's an Australian Labradoodle. And she's just the sweetest thing. She's eight weeks, and it's just brought so much joy to us. In the family. So yeah, I mean, big Nirvana this week. And it's just I do feel like I have a baby again. And I'm on a total schedule. And it's kind of like, taken over my whole week, but we'll get in a routine. But yeah, it was it was just amazing. picking her up and bring her home to the family. So that was mine. What about you, Katie?

Unknown: 3:08

She's so cute. And thank you. Now Madeline and Reese are begging me for a new puppy every single day. But I would say minor Vana. This week. My parents are still here. They're in town and my mom and I cooked dinner together and my new kitchen and it was like one of the I think the first time I cooked a meal, you know from scratch in my new kitchen. And I was with my mom. And so that was really nice. Yeah. And then also this glass of wine that I'm having right now because it's Friday

Amy: 3:43

so that was I mean, I should have done that a while. Yeah, we usually

Unknown: 3:48

record it around lunchtime, but we're recording late today. So this is why Yeah, yeah. Cheers. My flowers. Lisa, tell us what was your Nirvana this week. I had some amazing nirvana. This week. I hosted the second one of my new workshops, where I am starting to share my stories, my flower stories that resonates so deeply with me. And they've been such a mechanism of healing for me that I am just ready to start sharing my story and helping other people. And so I started the workshop with a little bit about me. And I brought in all these beautiful locally grown Texas flowers from a farm here in Texas called base camp farms. This isn't support for a sustainable and ethically driven brand called foxhole who supports other brands of that. And so everything in the store has a story behind it. It's art driven and it gives back it has a greater purpose. So it's been amazing to be a piece of that journey. But this workshop was like a gift. Because when I invite people to stay present with me and try to tap into their inner creative and whatever is speaking to them at that moment. If it's pain, if it's channeling prayers through what we're creating anything, just give yourself just two hours of a pause. And to see the garden masterpieces that these individuals created was such an affirmation to me that I am on the right path. And I am so happy to be doing this and giving back and finding my greater purpose. So that was my Nirvana this week, and I can't wait to start posting more. Thank you so much.

Amy: 5:34

I would love to come Well, listen,

Unknown: 5:37

I want to do this nationwide, because I want to start supporting local farms and growers wherever I go, supporting the communities, even sourcing My vessels from a local Potter in town supporting a local coffee shop doing a demonstration there I am ready to start exploring and sharing my story everywhere I go. So yes, maybe I'll have a workshop where you are one day would love would be amazing. Well, yeah, it's, it's, you're so much more than Well, first of all, floral artist is is an accurate way to put it, you're so much more than I would say I don't know, a florist because not that there's anything wrong with that. But your your your work really is like art. And also I see it on Instagram. It's unbelievable. But it's obviously so much more than that to do to you. It's very, like spiritual and it's about healing. And so how did you get into doing this? Like, I know it was through your love of painting and everything. So how many years? And when did you start composto Fiore. Um, so I started my company, I became a registered LLC with Texas, in August of 2019. So that was not that long ago. And let me tell you, it's been a lot of pivoting and shifting and what I started out as has evolved and expanded, and it's like I have manifested and created that path for myself and chiseled it down to what I want it to be. And I'm so thankful to have found that because I know not a lot of people have had the capacity to do so. I will say that, you know, through all my creative endeavors, I've tried a little bit of everything, they all fizzled out, and my heart kept calling me to flowers and that style of artistry. And so when I started practicing, it was back in 2015. And it was around the time when all my friends were getting married, having baby showers, etc, everyone came to me to be the hostess, I loved that opportunity, I embraced it, I went full out every time I hosted one of these showers. And it gave me the opportunity to start playing with flowers. And when I did that, I always snapped a photo because I was like, I'm gonna paint it, I'm gonna paint that arrangement one day when I get to it. And through that I was like, What am I saying, I don't want to paint it. I'm painting right now with my flowers. But really the turn inward and where I connected with it on a very deep spiritual level. And at one of great healing was during the pandemic, absolutely. I was almost willing a reason to slow down so that I could embrace what I truly wanted to with flowers and my artistry. And when that happened and the shift happened in our world. I had all the time in the world to reflect and that is when I was diagnosed. And that is also when I discovered that flowers are a form of prayer and healing and spirituality for me. So yes, thank you for asking that question. Yeah, I

Amy: 8:37

totally agree with that. I was talking about this actually, in a show recently about, I have always loved flowers. And really the process of putting them together is so relaxing and therapeutic for me. And I do it all the time. And I was mentioning in a recent episode that my nirvana of the week was putting together these flower arrangements and designing them for a party we were having or having some people over and that moment I just loved because it brought me so much peace. So I totally can relate with what you're saying. Obviously, you're incredible and have like, really made a career out of it. But I do totally understand where you're coming from because I connect with flowers too. I always have my husband always says he's like, if you were to have like a business, it would be something to do with flowers and dogs because those are the things that you're right. So anyway, so what were you doing professionally before starting composto vra.

Unknown: 9:29

I was actually in an HR position for an oil and gas engineering procurement and construction company here and he's totally different way and that taught me so much, you know, discipline and actually was a very creative musician. I worked with an amazing team. We did talent management, we helped develop like the key talent, individuals that you know, we saw a greater career path with us future leaders that the company. And it was it was a really cool experience. And during all that everyone I ever worked with was like, What are you doing here? And I was I was I was so you know, in that mindset that I have to do the grind I had, there's no way I would succeed as an artist, who am I kidding? Like, how can I have gone to school for something else, and now I'm going to try it. Like, I guess I would love to have a gallery full of paintings. I thought that's what it was gonna be. I never imagined this is where it was gonna take me. And it's been way more fulfilling than I would have ever imagined. So the message and that is, I really support and encourage everyone that I need to tap into what's calling you and give it a chance and give it a fighting chance. It's not going to be easy. There's going to be a lot of sacrifices made. But if you are truly called to something, there is a reason the world needs you here, and you need a push through that and it will bring you the greatest form of joy and peace. I couldn't agree with you more. It's amazing. Also, we have to say while we're having this interview, Lisa is doing things with flowers. I mean, you're changing them and snipping them and putting them and it's like it's, it's amazing to watch you do it. Because you can tell it's like bringing you peace and Nirvana and Zen as you're talking to us. It's very cool. So I know it's gorgeous. I dreamed up this kitchen, I was hard to convince my husband, but that's what you gotta you gotta keep fighting for what you want. And it was a lot of hard work, but it pays off. All right, so we've talked a little bit on to, you know, like, how your love of Painting led you into it? What are some simple tricks that you can give our listeners? So back in season one, I think it was like, I don't know, maybe episode three. Amy, when we had an interior designer Zoe Feldman on. She was telling us the episode was about like how to build a beautiful home that supports and nurtures you and brings you Zen and peace and she was saying bring in something that's alive. Bring in flowers, bring in plants bring in a branch from a tree embedded in a base anything right? So I feel like it's really great for our listeners to get some tips and tricks from you on how they can build their own gorgeous arrangements and bring life into their home. Yes, absolutely. This is something that I'm passionate about also teaching in my in my workshops because I do absolutely agree with that. I was telling Katie when I jumped on here, this this branch right here, this is a very typical southern landscape greenery type shrub changes in the most gorgeous fall colors and for this is a lot of fall. So where we get excited about the little orange tint and the red tent and these leaves, and so this is a plant that thrives down here I just recommend that you go outside start walking your neighborhood if you have the opportunity to go explore a little further and actually go foraging like in the hills in the mountains amazing do that connect just feel the leaves. I mean, it's incredible. It's they're always there. And yesterday for instance, I just got out and sat in the grass at this beautiful park and just connecting yourself with the ground and with the dirt is so healing so all you can I mean please follow me for any any kind of questions regarding forestry and how you can forage hearty greens around your home. This is something that I think is such a beautiful idea for people to start doing. It's so attainable it involves you just going outside snipping some branches play around and an artful basketball, I use chicken wire, which is you know, chicken wire, it's it's like what you would find at a hardware store or a garden store. I use coated chicken wire and I kind of crumble it into a little nest. And that's what I stuffed inside my vase. And that will allow you to arrange more artfully Oh, that's

Amy: 14:08

such because I just Yeah, and I think the process is so creative. And I love that you can do whatever you want. But I think some people like don't know where to start. I think it's also can be intimidating. When you're grabbing a bunch of things. You're like, I want it to look nice, and I can't

Unknown: 14:24

do it. That is that is a word I use a lot during my workshop. It is intimidating. I remember that feeling of going to the grocery store market. And that's one of those self confidence things and that's something I want to foster in individuals because that's something I lacked greatly with the condition that I have, and it we care so much about what other people think. But if you just shift that mentality and try to look inwards and say, What do you care about? That's what you've got to listen to first it's going to fill your cup up beyond Any other mean? Doing so and you know, it's just without us being fulfilled, we're not going to be good caretakers or productive employees or ambitious individuals because we're going to be topped at the top down and worn worn down. So I love this idea of bringing live plants indoors and branches like this lasts for three or four weeks in a beautiful vessel on your countertop on your island. You come in, you see a little bit of the outside, you're on minded, that nature ultimately drives us and yeah, get back out there and Eclipse some more branches, go click some flowers and experiment you can't go wrong, you seriously cannot lose with branches. They'll live in water for three to four weeks if you but you have to isn't important to like prune them properly. When you snip them when you're foraging and gathering them from the inside. Isn't it important that you do that correctly? I always think so. I mean, I have a nice sharp pair of clippers when you when you sever the the capillaries or like the little veins that take all the water up the tree trunk or up the stem, if they're kind of smushed together because you have dole scissors, it's gonna prevent water from going up. Clearly, if you have really nice shirt shears, absolutely have some tools that are meant for the job. Like I get out my like big clippers, if I'm going to go clip some branches. And then cutting at an angle is for a reason. Because if you care, let me show you an example. I

Amy: 16:33

don't think I ever cut in an angle. Okay, this is good to know. Now one thing I saw was die so quickly.

Unknown: 16:38

It's a little it's a little pro tip, you know, but it's okay. So if I cut this stem, I don't know if that's in focus. But if I cut this stem complete, just perpendicularly, it's just going to be like a little circle. I don't know, it's kind of hard to see it. But if I cut at an angle, I've now elongated that so it's like more surface area and more capillaries are opened up. They have bigger openings that way. Okay, so they can bring the water in easier. All right. Those are great that the chicken wire Do you see the chicken wire in a clear vase, though? What like what's the trick there? Okay, so clear vases are tricky, I would say there is a few different protocols you could do with that. So you could get a flower frog to set at the base of it. A flower frog is usually it's a round disc that's flat. And it either has like little hairpin looking things at the top of it or spikes. And you'll see them actually at thrift stores garage sales, because they were a thing of like the past floor street, but they're definitely coming back. So it's a much more sustainable form than like flower foam, for instance, right. And that's also I used to come by chicken wire, I can keep reusing this chicken wire. You only need a little bit of it. I'm going to start selling my own little florist St. Kitts. Oh, yeah, thank you. It comes with like a pair of my favorite shears. Some favorite clippers and then a bundle of the chicken wire, probably an artful vessel and a little like demo link video kind of thing.

Amy: 18:14

They're gonna say you're gonna sell them through Instagram to promote it when it comes down

Unknown: 18:20

to them. Well, I love that. And I think that it's a great way to get people involved. I want to start a Patreon account to or something to that effect, where people can help support my artistry but I can give you know provide the knowledge to them. Because I am all about spreading this like wildflowers. That's my thing with like, like wild flowers because people people need life. They need to bring this into their homes. It's very joyful. It's into a range is very peaceful. So I'm so glad that both of you enjoy doing that at your own homes. I don't do it well, but I'd love having it in and actually Lisa, you did a super cool collaboration recently an event with Jenny Kane with a designer Jenny came right and Amy

Amy: 19:02

is she makes it sounds familiar to you.

Unknown: 19:05

She's all over Instagram all the time. Yeah, it's like we were and shoes. Yeah. Yeah. She is a beautiful California based woman and lifestyle brand. And they have gorgeous sweaters and like basics like yeah, duster cardigans. And the quality is so phenomenal. I splurged on a cashmere sweater and it's like butter, you know,

Amy: 19:32

I mean, it's all over now that you're talking about the collaboration that you did. Well,

Unknown: 19:36

they an amazing shopping district has scooped me up here. I'm actually working with some clients there this upcoming month too. So it's been absolutely amazing. Getting to know the clients and tenants of that area. And they came in with their adorable Airstream. They drive this Airstream around the country and they test out different markets so they were testing out the Houston river oak shop In District, and they brought their little Airstream down and the shopping district got in touch with me. And they're like, Well, we have a great florist in mind, maybe you could do something with them. They always love featuring fresh flowers, and then bouquets with purchase. So it's a really cute way to, you know, bring in some some people to an interest to check out their brand, especially since they're new to town, and welcome them with a bouquet. And I did, I went above and beyond for my first and I do this with every single client. And that's where the true artists is in me, I always go above and beyond, because I'm so passionate about succeeding in this journey, and making it what I wanted want it to be that having clients to support that means the world to me, and they gave me free rein the second go round, because they were like, what could you do we really like your story, like, Can you can you just some kind of side of it. And so the second time they came in town, I did a floral demonstration. And then we gave away those flower arrangements to one lucky customer. And it was so fun. And then that opened my eyes to the idea of doing pop ups and sharing my story and having a little flower booth wherever. So yeah, it's been it's been gradually evolving into something way bigger than I had ever imagined. Yeah, your quickness. So clients like that. They scooped me up and they gave me a chance. And yeah, that's my gratitude for that is that I can't articulate that quite because it takes it takes courage, you know, and then it takes openness. So you're definitely you're an entrepreneur. I mean, without a shadow of a doubt. It's like it seems like you're on a constant stream of how do I expand to do more, do more, do more? So what have been some of your biggest hurdles in starting your company? Having a young child and that was the love of our life. He is our little boy he's almost he's almost four Kenny mom. But starting this at that point in life was was very tempting. And look at this little one.

Amy: 22:09

Right on cue. ran on

Unknown: 22:11

Kia. Yep, racy wave, Hi, sorry, my, my foot almost done what she was

Amy: 22:17

just talking about her son. What seems Enzo, I love that.

Unknown: 22:20

Enzo, thank you. Yes, and so is almost four. And he is such a nature lover. He loves flowers. He loves that I'm doing this. But anyway, that was really hard, because I was also going through a great hormonal shift. And maybe this can lead into my diagnosis. But as women, our hormones are constantly changing and evolving, I had no idea the magnitude of how it could hinder my physical and mental well being until just a few years ago. So that was one of my biggest challenges. Absolutely. Another was finding a sustainable way to keep up with my artistry I have constantly molded and shaped this into what I need it to be to support me as a successful individual means I need to be healthy, I need to maintain my mental and emotional and physical well being. And that means I can't get tapped out I can't get physically worn down. And so I have carefully chose the opportunities along the way that are authentic and genuine to me, and that I truly feel will give back in a certain way. And I think if you continue to remain genuine, I think it's very difficult in today's world, because you're gonna get you're gonna get thrown in all sorts of directions. So many people have so many ideas for you, once they see that you have talent, and you will be pulled and pulled and pulled. But there is intuition within us that absolutely can guide us successfully. And if you listen to that voice and you you trust in those opportunities that you feel more sure about, I think it's going to bring you a great amount of success and happiness. So that's beautiful. Well said. Alright, so that brings me into your diagnosis because you brought it up a couple times. But we haven't officially said what it is. So it you said it was a year ago. Was it 2020 or 2019? You were diagnosed with PMDD, right? Yes. Okay. So July July of 2019. I have received an official diagnosis of premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which is abbreviated PMDD. And this is something that is estimated to affect anywhere from five to 8% of females or females assigned at birth. And it can impact you can worsen over the course of time because as we get older, again our hormones that certain hormones are getting depleted. The shifts in the spikes during the fertile years that It's intense. So it's, it's through all of that. It was a lot of tracking. And it was a lot of therapy and monitoring when I was having these really deep, just very disruptive emotional down swings with heightened anxiety, and extreme depression. And it was coming about in a very cyclical way, it just seemed, gosh, I felt like I just went through this last month, you know, and even even my husband and my partner, he was recognizing a pattern, and it seemed that essentially about half the month, and it's not even consecutive days. And that's what's so frustrating about, it's not like, I can just be like, Okay, I'm gonna check out from society for these two weeks. It's like an up and down and up and down. And it's through the shifts in my hormones, my body cannot handle that shift between progesterone and estrogen. And I have a very clockwork cycle and the aspect that I am on a regular 20 to 30 day cycle. So I was able to map out through tracking my cycles, especially after the birth of my son, when I noticed a very hard transition between I was weaning him, I had been breastfeeding him, he was around 14 months of age. And it was in the months leading up where my supply was lessening that I was feeling more depressed. And, and so it was gaining independence. And I was feeling frantic, and I was searching and I was like What What am I who am I like I'm a mom and I I'm staying at home with my beautiful baby boy. But there's something here that doesn't feel right. Why do I Why do I get almost rageful? Every few weeks? Why do I have these terrible bouts of depression where I just don't even want to get out of bed, my body aches, I was just I was I was feeling so terrible about myself, because I had the most beautiful life and so many abundant blessings. And I have I come with a from a family that we have faced some very traumatic situations in the past several years. And we have we have an amazing special needs nice. And you know, we've faced illnesses and and it's been hard on our family, you know, and and inside I was like, Am I just dealing with that? Why do I feel so negative all the time? Why can't I just be happy like everybody else, like I was just constant doubts, constant insecurities, constant negative self talk. And during those down swings, I was noticing my thoughts were becoming very strong towards suicidal ideation. And that is a hard topic for some to stomach and I understand why it is something I lived through every single month. I will say that this is the first month through amazing encouragement, support and amazing system that I've I've finally tackled these thoughts and they do not scare me anymore, I'm able to push them away. That is like huge for me, though, has been amazing. It's so incredible I am my gratitude is I will get teary eyed every time I talk about it. Because the number of times that I have told myself you are not worth it. You are not worth living. You wouldn't even believe and he would not recognize me on those days. And hiding that from the world was extremely damaging. Practicing that mentality since backtracking I do believe I had this illness since I was 16. went through a very, very identifiable behaviors that I'm now aware of. It's incredible how much my body just is like on a repeat, right? But I'm getting smarter than it. I'm doing mind over matter. Absolutely. I'm practicing yoga, and eating healthier. I'm getting more sleep, I am putting my wellness and well being first before anything else. Because I know that's what's going to make me the best mama, the best wife, and the best individual here in my life for the world. Because that's authentic and genuine to me. And I'm not scared of showing everyone who I am anymore because it's not so scary. I do so thank you I just want to say you know, I'm

Amy: 29:30

glad you're talking about this because I actually had never heard of this before when Katie was we were kind of talking about this episode. So I'm so glad you're bringing it to there are people that likely have the same thing that don't even know and they probably just think it's PMS because like everyone gets PMS but like there's definitely a scale of, you know, the extreme that you're dealing with and then so I just never had heard of it before and that's so interesting. So, in terms of your treatment is It sounds like you're tackling it with lots of different things. Is it all through therapy and meditation and those sorts of things? Or is there also medications that are helpful for this? Or supplements or things like that? Yes,

Unknown: 30:13

yes, absolutely. So thank you. Yes, it it's been through a lot of constant and very dedicated therapy. I go every other two weeks. I love my therapist, and I love her. I have an amazing psychiatrist who's on board with us, my OBGYN is in the picture, as well as my endocrinologist. So I think having a good support system of professionals to guide you through this, opening up to my loved ones. So liberating my closest people that I trust greatly. I finally when the thoughts became too scary for me. And I was feeling like they were very convincing, just hard to say they were very convincing. I finally opened up to my husband, my husband didn't even know Oh,

Amy: 31:03

my gosh, a year. Yeah. Wow. That's a big thing

Unknown: 31:07

to keep from your life partner. And the amount of guilt that comes with that alone is something to you know, play with your mind. But you know what i i He has been a pillar of support along with my best friends. And I'm also working with a wellness coach Jenna Longoria. She is the period guru. I totally want to connect you guys. Wow. Amazing. She has dedicated her life to helping women like me, women with endometriosis, PCOS and fertility, etc. So we should Yes, I will make that connection because I think she would love to be a part of the show. I just want to say I am you know, I've known you my whole life, obviously. And my cousin and you have always had seemed like one of the most positive people to me, like you've always had such a positive demeanor, I would have never had any idea that you were holding this in and hiding this from the world. And thank you for being so brave, and sharing it with us. So let's hit some stats here. Because I think it's good for people to to hear. So you're saying this is something that you can be born with? Is that what I heard you say? I think you can fully be predisposition to a disposition that Yes, right. But it happens obviously, as you're older and you go through puberty, right. That's what it's okay. And well, it can start for select individuals with that. And it's usually individuals who had a difficult childhood. And I think for me, recognizing that I always had a certain level of social anxiety, and had a hard time expressing my emotions as a child. I think keeping all that in words, it really does build up and you start training your brain to think negatively. Thank you for recognizing that I am a positive person outwards. I try to define and I try to absolutely uplift others but I had never given myself that gift this year. And for the first time I can say I love myself and my soul. And it when you're authentically positive and you really believe in hope that there could be something better and you can allow yourself to dream a little bit. Let that guide you if you're having a hard time and please reach out to me that's such a good message. I love you. I want to know how did you how did you go through years of trying to get diagnosed? How did you get end up ultimately being diagnosed? And I heard you say endocrinologist is there is this also endocrine? i Yes, I do think my thyroid definitely comes into play here. I have low TSH right now. So I know that I have a hyperactive thyroid and that can play into our hormones and so I'm working. I'm probably gonna get on medication for that you had also asked, am I on another medication and I am on Lexapro that is called an SSRI. It's a serotonin something reuptake inhibitor. I am not good with those kind of medical terminologies but it's an anti anxiety and antidepressant. And I've been on it since July of 2019. So right oh my gosh, are 2020 July of 2020. Thank you. I kept my mirror. I know. It's really hard. I can't believe it's 2021. But yeah, I started then with a very low dosage because I was very scared and hesitant of introducing a medication to my body. I had been on another one at an earlier point before I got married. And then I subsequently got off of that when I did get married because I felt a swing of happiness and joy and I was like okay, and now we're gonna try for a baby and it's life is exciting. And I think situationally, I was able to heal myself in certain points of time, or at least keep the symptoms more at bay. But being in triggering situations, is something that absolutely throws me for a deep spiral. So I'm very conscious now of setting healthy boundaries, keeping toxic relationships at bay, it's hard to identify those to some people, and then learning to love individuals, you know, in different ways so that I can continue to stay connected with them. But maybe I need a little distance, you know, something like that. So that's been healing. And then additionally, yeah, the therapy is what opened our eyes to this, my therapist was recognizing and she's like, just something's not matching up here. Like, have you talked to your OBGYN and at that point in time, I was trying to get pregnant. So those emotions were involved. And it wasn't really until after when I was noticing those trends are going on my emotions, that she's like, Hey, just try, just try marking it on your calendar and just see is it happening? And sure enough, it happens around the time of ovulation staining.

Amy: 36:10

Okay, so before that you just thought it was generalized anxiety? Probably. Yeah, no

Unknown: 36:18

person like that. That's where Western medicine does us a disservice. And that's why I'm passionate about opening up to females about this because, yes, absolutely. I have I have talked with, I don't know, maybe 40 women or so this year on this topic. At least five of those have received a diagnosis. Oh, wow. I think this is much more prevalent than what we are realizing it. Sure. Yeah. It's not it's not talked about enough. When I finally mentioned the word suicidal ideation, negative self talk, cyclical behaviors of rage, full surge, followed by extreme remorse, guilt, self hatred, dysmorphia, dysmorphia, and its greatest form, I, physically, I feel like I am looking like a different person, I will not look at myself in the mirror on those days, I wouldn't face myself, I always looked down at the ground, did not make eye contact with individuals when I was feeling like that. Having that amount of isolation is so detrimental to your health. And then all of the negativity then starts manifesting itself. Physically, my body ached, I had extreme muscle fatigue, I extreme fatigue in general, it's not Yeah, we all get tired around the course of our period. But it was like, I just wanted to sleep and I wanted to sleep through the pain. Absolutely. There were days where my husband had to completely step in as a sole parent, because I simply could not. And he's been so incredibly amazing. He is a our hero. And, and Enzo is my hero, and so calls me his hero, too. So it's, it's definitely a family journey. And I think that if we can just remove the stigma of it, and if we can start practicing and talking out loud about how we're actually feeling, I think the world is going to shift in a better direction. And we've got to do this. We've experienced a lot of trauma in the past few years.

Amy: 38:27

But yeah, I was gonna ask you so once you were diagnosed with something specific PMDG Did you almost feel better? Because you're like, okay, at least it's something it's not just like, like, it's actually identified. It's around my period, like you're starting to narrow in and then I'm sure once you started telling people you probably had this wave of relief and almost felt better, just because you're not hiding it.

Unknown: 38:51

Yeah. At first, before I received the diagnosis, I literally thought I was an evil person after month. A lot of a lot of people who have this condition, they call it Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. And and that's, that's really sad, because I definitely don't exude that outwardly toward anybody else except to my closest loved ones who unfortunately, they would see that really dark side and they stood by my side. And I know not everybody is as lucky and when suicidal ideation comes into play, we have to be there for those kinds of people and start making them feel like it's going to be okay. You have something that a lot of women struggle with. And we're gonna get through this together and there are going to be tactics, there's going to be ups and downs and ups and downs. But we do have the ability to provide you with some resources and tools and and if we can find that support for people I absolutely want to get back to that community and I'm trying to think of a creative way to do so. What is it what's the treatment Lisa? So is is like separate like, how did you come up with this plan of taking the SSRI? And was this? Is this all part of the treatment? Or how are you managing it in whole? Alongside with my therapy and my psychiatrist and my OBGYN There are a few different protocols you can follow. So yes, medication, there are some supplements. Magnesium is huge room huge. So having and certain foods, a lot of omegas, a lot of leafy greens, things like that. So dietary wise, there's things but another course of action is a hysterectomy, and oophorectomy and I will say last month, I almost I did schedule an appointment with my OB to talk about that, because I was so desperate. But I think I finally made a huge breakthrough last month. And I know that that's very possible that I will slip up and down still. But I feel like I'm facing this thing head on now. And I'm not stepping back. Good sign you have the right tool ready. Yeah, right tools, and I'm ready to share them. So I am like a PMDD. Warrior. I think that yeah. Why don't you are you are you are? Absolutely D wire. Yeah, but there's a great, there's a great few groups on Instagram that I'm following. It's been really nice connecting with others who have it, I recently came out on Instagram by announcing that condition. Thank you. That was cool. After that last downward spring swing when I was like, I don't want to take away these organs that made me a female, I'm so sad that that could really potentially be it. And I think it like made me step up in a way by recognizing I'm not ready to lose that piece of this journey yet. That I am going to give this my all I am going to push those negative thoughts away as if they are the worst enemy. Absolutely. But I'm also going to hug and forgive myself from where I've been. And I will I will try to love on myself during those hard days and not recognizing that I think I am worthy of love and life and making that switch. And that switch in my mentality is going to guide me through this. So it's

Amy: 42:23

huge. I mean, the talk track that you tell yourself is everything. Yeah. And I'm so glad to see you treating yourself more positively and what you just said, which is forgiving yourself and like giving yourself a break versus you know what you were doing prior? So I'm amazing. You're getting

Unknown: 42:43

our masters of internalization and the guilt trip, for sure. Our masters for everything that we want to achieve in our lives. It's it's it's easy to go down that road and especially as a mom. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I even I think oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead, please. Well, I was gonna say even as a mom and even as an adolescence and I think that, you know, we are in a different age now where I think society is seeing how much we can absolutely contributes with our minds, our souls and, and with our amazing ideas in the way that we're connecting people I am. I'm a feminist, and proud to be one but also, I'm embracing being okay with sharing this with men as well. I've opened up to my yoga instructor day one, what are you here for my emotional well being? I shared that with a class and I was like, here we go, Lisa, thing out loud. You're gonna do it. And it's not going to be that bad. And let me tell you, it's been beautiful. And I'm sharing it with guys. Let's not make the target talk so taboo. Yeah, like we are physical. We are humans. And this is what our bodies do. I mean, like, it's amazing what they can do. Let's celebrate it instead of being like, let's not talk about that guy. Of course. Yeah. out of it is so powerful. And I just have to say, I see what you're doing and what you're saying. You're really truly going to help someone that's listening. And you gave so many tools and tips that can not only help someone identify what they're potentially experiencing, but also how that they can overcome it. And I just want to thank you for being so brave. And I think what you're doing with your with your floral art is is healing you. I mean, it clearly is doing so, so much for you. So I'm just I'm really happy for you. I really am. Thank you, Katie. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm very happy to be here. Before we wrap up. I quickly want to know how our listener can find you if they want to get their hands on your amazing art because these florals are Something I mean, it's not like anything I've ever seen anywhere else before. It's really spectacular. So how can the listener find you? Well, thank you Katie. That's so sweet. Um, I'm so passionate to share my journey with others. I would love some new followers and people to reach out to me and talk to me about flowers. And like I said, I am going to start traveling with my workshops, and I hope to be in a town near you one day, so they can reach me at Ken posto Fiore. It's composto dot CRT.

Amy: 45:31

Well, thank you so much for sharing this we follow you your content is incredible. And we know that our listeners will love it too. So we'll make sure to put all of that info in our show notes. Okay, so we're gonna get quickly to our rap session and ask you a couple quick questions and I'm going to add one in because I thought of it as we were talking. So firstly, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Unknown: 45:53

Okay, this is tricky. Um, I would say rest in water absolutely are key components, but also opening yourself up to just going for a walk outside. Spiritually I feel like when you when you give yourself access to nature, I know this is maybe not It's the beauty from within that's gonna make you shine and be more confident. So if you find something that speaks to you or brings you that level of joy and peace and competence, like keep doing it and I feel like that will shine through you. I also love st makeup. Have you guys heard of st No. S It's s e i n t um, I met a wonderful individual here in Houston. She's my rep it's one of those companies where they don't have they don't carry it in store but all you do is just order online and if you want to support a rep you can otherwise you can just order it online. I think they come in these amazing tins and then you can put it in like a compact but it's like cream based blushes and lip and a little tin and then their eyeshadows are just like so beautiful. And that in addition with Ilia beauty serum, it's like a that's like like my liquid foundation or like my CC cream. I love those those products a lot

Amy: 47:19

that the earlier like hyaluronic acid or like the the serum Hyaluronic serum that's tinted with SPF. Yes. Yeah.

Unknown: 47:26

Yeah, I totally awesome. And then Yan st is so cool. Because like I think their mission is to foster that confidence within women. And I will say when I wear their makeup, I feel like I'm glowing. So I don't know what it is about it. I don't know if it's like the cute tins are unpackaging it whatever it is, you can tell that there is a lot of intention in their products. And I think brands like that really care about their their clients and your experience. So all right, well, here's our next one is we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber alerted you. They pinged you, they're five minutes away, you have five minutes to like, throw it together and get an Uber on time. What are your holy grails your go to is to make it happen. You might have just done my thing. I did. Yeah, seriously, I can do my makeup in five minutes. And it's that quick with those products. Like I just rub on my serum and go and then I have a little bit of blush. And I do some eyeshadow and mascara and it's like, it is such an easy formula to follow. I don't you know, I don't do a lot of contouring or anything like that. But I feel like I look natural. And I like it that my skin actually shine through that Ilia serum. So yeah, with that baby up and then I just would let my hair air dry. And I do have a product. My mother in law got it for me. It smells heavenly. I will send you the link for that. It's a hair serum and I just put it on my ends. And like it's just it smoothes it out. I have naturally wavy hair so it like it dries like that. Otherwise I put it on and like blow dry it and it gives it like volume. It's like nice. Smells nice. Yeah. All right, Amy, what was this elusive other question you're throwing on?

Amy: 49:12

My other question was if you had to pick one flower, what would it be? What is your favorite?

Unknown: 49:19

Um,

Amy: 49:22

so hearty. My peony? I can tell you that. Yeah,

Unknown: 49:27

I would say it's between it's between three I would say dolly is after the lovely dahlias are so so abundant in Washington and then recently I went to Asheville and went to some amazing farms there. So dahlias have so much variety and color and their pedals. I think they're like first step like sunshine and like look at this coloring. I just worked with a and some have the big yellow center any flower the big yellow center is also a favorite like I love cumin They'll look how cute these dainty babies are mme. Oh, they're like the TF Canna meal. Cool. Um strawflower Is this one this is another favorite. That's beautiful. These are like pay for a pedal.

Amy: 50:14

Oh wow. That's a pretty,

Unknown: 50:16

you can cut off the heads of these once they're dry. And this This is an everlasting flower so it'll always stay this yellow and I just like put them in a little bowl. They're so beautiful, like great things that they were made a paper. Yeah, and they learned some of my those are my favorites. Yeah, some of my favorites so

Amy: 50:35

and how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Unknown: 50:41

Gratitude? Absolutely. Gratitude and staying present. My son is my nirvana. experiencing the world through his eyes, getting out in nature with him and seeing all the teeny tiny details. He has grown my love for nature exponentially. And and nature. Nature is where I seek my Nirvana and I find it the most so yeah, I think to Phil, you got it. You gotta get outside.

Amy: 51:13

Okay, awesome. So we do a product recommendation or review every week and I know Katie has one for us this week. So I don't know what it is. I'm excited to hear about it.

Unknown: 51:22

I do and I feel like we should start getting swag from this company because we've mentioned them so many times. is Sunday. Riley auto correct. Have you used this one? Amy?

Amy: 51:36

Is that the caffeine?

Unknown: 51:38

It's the eye cream? Yep. The caffeine. Yeah, have you ever used it Lisa? No, but I've heard of this Sunday Riley I want to know about it. So that's I just ran out of my eye creams to tell me. Okay,

Amy: 51:52

so this is an auto erase okay, it's

Unknown: 51:54

called no auto correct. And correct. It is a brightening and Depuffing Eye Contour Cream for $65 for like point five ounces, but I mean it's eye cream so it lasts a really long time. It's a runaway bestseller, and it banishes tired looking eyes it instantly delivers a lifted and deep puffed look to the eye area, which I've noticed instantly. I'm going to always like puffy in the mornings. And also it does help with dark circles. I for sure have been super tired this week and my face wasn't entirely showing it so I feel like it must be my eye cream. Some of the key ingredients are caffeine like you said Brazilian ginseng root extract. That's part of what diminishes like the appearance of the puffiness which is me every day. Horse chestnut extract X mela Oh, well, I can't say it so we're not going to mention it. I'm really like a huge Sunday, Riley fanatic. I think their products are amazing. I've used I don't know, maybe three or four different ones. And this is my latest and greatest. So I highly recommend that this Sunday. Riley autocorrection commies to get an on Sunday riley.com I got mine at Sephora. Probably at Ulta. So yeah, I dig it. Yeah. I want to try it too now.

Amy: 53:08

Yeah. I think I actually got that at Sephora a couple of years ago, because I went in asking for like, what's the best ice cream and that was the one they gave me. And then I used it and then I don't I probably ran out of it and then tried something else. And I forgot about it. So

Unknown: 53:22

it's really like when you put it on, it's very moisturizing without being like tacky or sticky. It seeps in really easily. And actually, I was like, we were traveling for a wedding. And I forgot to bring my face cream. And I was just wondering, let me use a little bit of this. And I use that in place and my skin looked great. So I mean, you know in a pinch, but like that's it's it has like that nice texture, that nice consistency, where I like what you're saying, I love that. Yeah, and your skin still glows through like I've had some eye creams before they're like tacky or like dry you out. This was really nice. That's great. Ooh, yeah. I like the lightness that it sounds like it's a lighter formula. Yes, it is. Totally. So it's a good one. Awesome. Yeah. So did you say that you had a mantra for as Lisa, but breathing safety and to every one of my rooms and my home has been incredibly healing. I just walked into a room and say I am safe here. I am present. And I am grateful. And it's gratitude. Anything that expresses gratitude is always a good mantra for me. So I don't know, I vary based on like what I'm feeling. I always give myself pep talks. Now sometimes I talk out loud. And I'm like, you've got this, you know, but it's um, it's funny for someone who was so scared to share her voice. I'm so grateful to be here to start doing it. So thank you for having me. I'm so

Amy: 54:48

sorry. It was so incredible.

Unknown: 54:50

Yeah. So I want to repeat that mantra that you just said about what was it? I am I am safe. Can you say those three things because that's really powerful. Yeah. Okay. I I am safe. I am present and I am grateful. Beautiful. Love it. Thank you so much. Yeah, we're honored to have you. Thank you for joining me. So it's my honor. I love it. I'm glad.

Amy: 55:13

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the shownotes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 28 - Fitness, Self Image + 6 Effective Skincare Products for Men with Model and Personal Trainer, Alon Reitchuk (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 28.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Unknown: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. What's up Nirvana sisters family it's Amy. Before we get into this week's episode, I wanted to thank you all for your support. We are so grateful and we would love for you to please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Apple podcasts Stitcher. castbox pod chaser and podcast addict I know all have ratings and reviews. So if you would take the time and do that we would be so so appreciative. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. It's a good one.

Unknown: 1:05

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters. So this week I'm so excited as as Amy because we have a first happening. We have our first male guest of the entire series ever. So he's going to be our honorary Nirvana brother. And he also just happens to be a very dear longtime friend of mine. He is a model that's how we know each other. And now a very successful personal trainer and influencer and his name is alone, right? Check. Hi, alone. Hello.

Amy: 1:40

So nice to meet you. I've heard so much about Thank you for having me.

Unknown: 1:43

Thank you for having me. So I learned I met in the modeling industry. what seems like forever ago we were in our early 20s and wild and crazy in New York and he's a very successful model. You have walked in fashion shows for Dolce and Gabbana, Valentino, you've been in vogue USA, you've been modeling for magazines, billboards, etc, for years, and then you moved on to your professional personal training career. At some point, this is actually super cool. Adidas sponsored you as one of their professional athletes. And he did the Tel Aviv 2014 Adidas marathon campaign, which is pretty epic. And now your main focus is being a certified personal trainer and Nutrition Advisor. And you are highly specialized across the board. You work with pregnant women post postpartum, you work with women coming out of plastic surgery, and so much more. And at one point, developed your own unique training technique which we will dive into and opened your own hips studio, so I can't wait to hear all about it. We're so happy you're here.

Amy: 2:50

Very impressive.

Unknown: 2:51

Thanks for being here. Bam. Aim. What was your nirvana of the week?

Amy: 2:55

Well, this is sort of a I was telling Katie before we started recording, alone, my dog, my little baby dog is 16 and a half years old. And he's kind of in the last chapter, I would say. And it's kind of a weird time because he was doing well. And then all of a sudden, the last few weeks, it's just been not great. And so and I have two boys, and it's been a little bit emotional. But anyway, he's a great dog. And he just had an episode last night, which was so sad. He like, couldn't get his bearings, and he was off balance. Anyway, I literally slept on the floor with him last night, I created this bed and I slept on the floor with him. And even though it's kind of sad, it was sort of this bittersweet moment because he was like, literally in my womb, He was like, in my belly. He couldn't relax because he was nervous because of all this stuff going on. But I finally was able to relax him and he was like, literally in my stomach. I was holding him and he just like, let our breath out and just like relaxed, and then he ended up going back to sleep. But I laid there with him for hours, which I haven't done probably since he was a puppy and it was just like a sweet, cute moment. One on one with Him, which I never get. And it was an older night, which is why I'm exhausted today. But anyway, it was kind of a it was a Nirvana because it brought me joy because it was just I was making him feel better. And it was just a sweet moment. He's my firstborn. He's 16 and a half of my other boys are 14 and 11. So you know, I feel very,

Unknown: 4:16

very good to just about to. I was just about to ask, I guess you had to put the dog before you had your babies before you educate dad.

Amy: 4:24

So he's my first baby. So it's, it's, yeah, it's an interesting time. But yeah, so that's me. What about you, Katie?

Unknown: 4:31

Yeah, that's I mean, that's really sweet. Has your first baby. I know how that is a teddy on my nirvana of the week happened this morning. I took a kundalini yoga class this morning, which I don't know. Are you you're familiar with Yeah. And Amy, are you familiar? You've heard of it. So I've never taken one before but it was a 90 minute Kundalini class. And basically, it's like a meditation with yoga asanas and you can hold a pose anywhere from two minutes. for five minutes, not like an a yoga pose, but, you know, meditation poses. And I think at one point I even held on for maybe like 20 minutes, but it was just really, really cool. They also did a gong sound bath at the end. And it was a you went to a class. I went to it. Yeah, that's Yeah, yeah, it was really, it was really cool. It was I had like, I feel like I had an emotional release. So it was just, it was really super special. And I'm excited to do it again. So I'm definitely going to sell them on JIRA nirvana. So I'm currently in Paris, I went to my husband, family, brothers and sisters, I met these parents, but it's gonna be it was the first time I met the sisters and brothers. And it was really nice and happy. It's also the Jewish holidays. So Katie, happy Jewish holidays. I woke up this morning, and I felt a bit tired and gloomy outside today. And like yesterday was really sunny and beautiful. And I went to the park and I ran eight miles. And it was beautiful. I sweat it out. All the bad energy. I cleared my body. And I feel I feel way better. Where we've arrived. And yeah, so that's my Nirvana off today.

Amy: 6:13

That's on I have. Yeah,

Unknown: 6:15

I think I have a little moment of Nirvana every day. Something that I really love to do. That really puts me together and makes me feel good with the rest of my day, even if things don't go smoothly. Just this little moment. Always. Always bring me back to, to my conscious and yeah, so today, the 10 kilometer, a eight mile run was the was this Nirvana moment for me. It's green and beautiful in Paris. And it's a gorgeous city. And it's also a way to, to view and explore this beautiful place alone is originally from Tel Aviv, and you've lived in Tel Aviv, New York, London. Now, you did live in Paris at one point. I lived in Paris. I lived in Paris briefly because I've been in and out just on jobs. And also I've lived in Germany, in Hamburg, and in Berlin for a while. I was racing born raised in Tel Aviv. And then when I was 18, I moved to the UK to the US, sorry. And then I moved back to Israel. And then I traveled around Europe working for modeling agencies and doing some major jobs. And now I'm in London, the past two and a half years. Yeah, I moved to London. First, because I basically wrote a trademark, I had a concept of hit fitness, that include boxing, rowing, lifting, and cycling. And I just travel around the world, doing presentations about my concept until I found an investor in the UK. And two years ago, we opened a studio, this beautiful multi million studio, and unfortunately, did not survive. COVID. So I'm back to basics. I'm on my own again. And currently, I'm doing some private trainings, I see some clients and also I train some clients on Zoom. I have couple of clients that I train in Dubai, and in New York. So yeah, I keep myself busy. Yeah. So how when did you start personal training? At what point? Did you transition from modeling into personal training? Basically, I never stopped modeling. I take jobs all the time, but more. Right now I'm more like my own agent. I don't have an agency for modeling because I have quite a big platform on my Instagram. So I get I get modeling jobs, and I started to be a private trainer. I think 10 years ago after I finished my study, I studied in sport Institute in Israel called Wingate. I studied sport and nutrition. I started to be a private trainer. And yeah, since then, that's what I do.

Amy: 9:01

Speaking of Israel, Katie and I, hopefully will be going on a trip next year to Israel and we'll be going to Tel Aviv for my son's my, my youngest son's Bar Mitzvah, we're hopefully planning student Israel so we'll be able to visit your hometown.

Unknown: 9:15

I did not realize you Jewish as well. So happy support to you as well. We've touched on how you started your your modeling career, personal training career and also you have an insane social media following. I mean, obviously, it's because you're absolutely gorgeous. And you're incredible in front of the camera, but how you have like, what over 200k followers on Instagram, is that right? I have I have 200k overall actually on Instagram. I have 150k Currently, but I have another platform, which is Facebook, and I'm starting my YouTube page. So it's altogether 200,000 on Instagram at the moment we have 15 It goes up and down all the time. How did you do you feel like it's just because you're super consistent with posting and sharing and that that has a lot to do with it. Like how did you make that happen. You know what, I've never invested any money on growing my social media platform, I think I was always authentic and true to who I am. And my style, what I believe in, I was always slightly different than others, I always had my opinion about things, and I always lead in my own direction, and ever want to follow me. Great ever not. It's also great, you know, and I was just authentic and honest about who I am. And I also grew and evolved and changed with the years, you know, and it just organically grew. Just just being myself and being honest to who I am sharing my life sharing my journey. Also, like we did deep awareness, this social media is not our real life. And we are choosing choosing to share what we are choosing to share, but it doesn't reflect who we really are for, for you know, 100%. But yeah, I think I think authenticity and honesty about who you are, for me is the key. Absolutely.

Amy: 11:04

I agree. So I have a question for you. So tell us your favorite thing about personal training, your favorite thing about modeling and then to tell us your least favorite thing about both of those things?

Unknown: 11:15

Okay, so first of all, I like I like fashion, but let's start with modeling. I love fashion. And I love climbing up. And I love that people actually make want to make the best of themselves, you know, visually and to look at the best. And I think fitness and, and fashion, they are very much aligned. And they may very much be together. Because for my clients, for example, I always tell them, if you look in the mirror, and you satisfied who you see, and just go out of the shower, look in the mirror, if it makes you smile, that's a good. And I also think that like clothes should not cover who you are, I think you should be happy with who you are. The clothes is just fabrics, you know, to make us happier. But if you are glowing from the inside, and if your aura is positive and good. So that's what's most important about fashion, I have a love and hate relationship with it because I have I have some very bad experience with fashion and some good experience with fashion. You know, I started really early. And I think it shaped my personality in many aspects because I didn't always had a good experience with it. You know, I started as a 717 year old kid, I was thrown in Milan, I did the first show that I did was Dolce Gabbana, everybody was older than me, I was treated like, you know, like an adult, which I wasn't, you know, and the things that will say to me sometimes hurt me, and I think shaped my personality and subconsciously I built walls. And you know, I made me very, very, I don't know, sometimes separate, like, separated from my emotions. And you know, you put up a line how to protect yourself, it can be an ugly industry. Yeah. And it reflects on anything on anything in my life, you know, especially on my relationships because we knew are trying to protect yourself. Sometimes you cannot be very vulnerable and honest and transparent with your feelings and with your emotions, and especially when it comes to love and relationships with any type of relationship on the scale. If it's romantic relationship friendly relationship, family relationship, I think all these boundaries that they subconsciously build harm me in a way. On the other way. You know, I've made a lot of money. I traveled the world executed my love for fashion and for style. It helped me grow my role, my style, and you know, know exactly what I like and what I don't like be involved with people that are very much like me, meet very interesting people along the way, like JT about everything that I've done in all my journey. I don't regret anything because I'm at the end of the day, I'm a happy person and I'm very happy with who I am. What about your love hate for personal training? Do you is there something you love the most about and something you just like the most about it, I cannot say that there is something that I don't like to buy personal training to be honest with you. I just love to take people and show them the way to make a better version of themselves you know and take people as a project start started at some point in the finishing point have this person blog to see them blossom in front of my eyes and you know, be happy with their achievement and be happy with their new lifestyle and the new routine. And see this transformation is just fascinating. Never gets old really. So you told me that you're focusing a lot right now your expertise you're working with a lot of women that are either post pregnancy and post plastic surgery. Let's touch on that a little bit. What what is something for our listener that just had a baby? What would you what would you say to help them get back to where they I'm gonna be so first of all, I train girls that are actually very progressive in a pregnancy, I have two girls that I train now that they are in the eight months, but they're still training. And I must say, like people that have a training routine prior to their to their pregnancy can carry on training. And it's actually very good for the particular cardiovascular and it's very healthy for the baby. On post training. I currently don't train any girls, but I've had a lot of girls that I that I've trained in the past have been after like couple of pregnancies, actually after two or three babies. And you know, it's a process. But some girls can get into a better shape than they were before their pregnancy, and into results that they actually did not believe that they will reach after their pregnancy, girls with pregnancy, after pregnancy, after they give birth. The most important is to get the strength back to their core to midsection, a lot of concentration about the area of the pelvis, about all the core muscle, oblique and abdominal area that needs basically to be refurbished if you can, if you can say that way, because this is the most areas that are being damaged after pregnancy, I can say that you can see very, very good results. And some girls again, get to a better shape and to a better physique than they were before the pregnancy. Basically, I start with them, I start with them from a very, very, very foundation of like really simple aircraft, exercising of even breathing, you bring you know, it's exhale, and inhale to get the strength of the of the core back to the body. And then I start like a little bit more and more and more harder exercises, planks, abs exercises, a lot of bridges of the pelvis, you know, there, I can basically do a Mat Workout for an hour with the girl with bunch of different exercises to basically rehabilitate this area. That makes sense. And then is it kind of somewhat similar for these plastic surgery, post plastic surgery clients that you're working on? It depends what kind of plastic surgery if it's a tummy tuck. So basically girls with a tummy tuck, it's a super, super difficult surgery, you know, it takes like six months to just recover from, from the surgery and to recover from all the wounds and you know, the stitches and all of that. And a lot of girls that do atomic tag, they do a bob boob job at the same time, I guess because they open already. They want to

Amy: 17:40

get a two for one.

Unknown: 17:42

Yeah, yeah. So a lot of girls, I don't know, I think I, I see this in in London, for example, I've trained, I think it's fourth, the fourth person that I trained with tummy tuck and boob job that this procedure done at the same time. So basically, you know, tummy tuck is just like, you know, it takes the skin and stretching it back and put it back on. So you don't really have problem with it with the muscle area there. So it's very individually depends what each person needs some girls, you know, they have a tummy tuck, but they still have access fat in different areas in their body that they need to work on. Some of them have a very bad Cellulite is in the legs. So you need to even out and you know, make the body of the best version of itself. I currently train a 55 year old woman, she had a tummy tuck and a boob job. And you know, this area looks great, but she's very weak, she needs a lot of work on the core area because also if your core is weak, you get that big belly because there is nothing to protect the the, you know, the intestines, the inside part of your body. If you make it stronger than everything stuck in it looks firmer and smaller. So yeah, we work on that. She you know, she has a lot of similarities in her legs. So that needs to be executed and work on very aggressively, you know, but it's really it's really individual because girls after Tomita can do job. Each girls is individual they need different things. So you can't really I can't really give you one solution or one remedy of what I do with them.

Amy: 19:18

What are you doing? What are you doing with that one client about cellulite? Is it more strength training? Is it Pilates like what types of things help to make it look better? I know you can't get rid of it but what things help it help?

Unknown: 19:33

So I'll be honest here satellites if they really did, you cannot entirely 100% Get rid of them. Especially when you're in a progressive age after 50 It's very it's very hard to reverse it but if you make the muscle stronger, you make the skin stretch and then it looks smoother and better. You know, cellulite is usually comes in the hamstring area in the back of your legs. This is the most common area to have cellulite just They do a lot of squats, a lot of lunges, a lot of deadlifts, a lot of bridges on the floor. And you know, like really working specifically on this area, you get some good results, but you cannot get 100% rate of cellulitis, unfortunately, where does cardio come into into play as well? I mean, I would imagine, do you, of course, there's, there's got to be a balance of having both to really achieve results. So yeah, you know, a lot of girls that believe that they want to lose, they believe they want to lose weight, they think the cardio is the answer. But girls don't believe don't understand. Also, guys don't understand that. Like, if you do only cardio, it's actually not good for your muscles. And it doesn't make your body look firm and tight and strong. So what happens is, some girls or guys do five sessions of cardio a week, and then they lose all the fat in the body, but their muscles become very, very soggy. You know, so it's a very, very specific, gentle balance between cardio and strength, which need needs to be executed together. I would imagine just all body types are different. Like there's no, you have to have, essentially, you have to have a balance of building muscle mass, and also cardiovascular exercise. And then what about in regards to like stretching and leaning out and yoga and things like that makes? A question came up when you're talking about say, like, when you use a roller like you rolling out the Maya fascia, does that do anything for cellulite at all? Or not really, I think that like the normal traditional sports are the most helpful for cellulite. So that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about strength. I'm talking about cardio, and I'm talking about proper stretching every time after workout, and even have like the have half an hour, once a week of proper stretching, because this is very important, very rewarding to your body. Otherwise, if you don't stretch your body accumulate a lot of lactic acid, which is not allowing you free mobility of your muscles. It makes the muscles really tight and stiff. And we don't want that, in my opinion. Muscles should be sorry, my long and Leander Yeah,

Amy: 22:20

exactly. Especially for men, there's they just most men I know can't like touch their feet. Like they're just so much tighter than women who do more like stretching. And so what's your stance on so

Unknown: 22:34

I tell you that a year ago, I'm I'm not a big lover of stretching, but I have to do it. A year ago, I was working out. And I was doing deadlifts with really heavy bar in the gym. And I felt that something cracking in my back and on the way out of the gym, I fell on the floor without the ability of getting up the floor. Oh my god. Luckily, luckily, I didn't you know, I didn't do any river, a river irreversible damage to my body. But I had like, proper muscle spasm in my back that didn't allow me to stand up straight for like two months. Wow. Horrible, horrible, it was super painful is the most excruciating pain I've ever felt in my life. And since then, I realized that even if I don't like it like any other thing that sometimes we don't like in life, and we have to do this is one of them. I don't like it, but I have to stretch otherwise, I will not be able to, you know, to execute the kind of workouts that I do the long runnings that I do. And if I have to do a little something that I don't like in order to execute all these great things that I love to do, that's what it is. Stretching is super important and super, I think crucial to people that are working out on a daily base. And even if you don't like it, you need to give it the time. Otherwise it will retaliate at some point right up to my, my husband, Adam, he, he couldn't touch his toes at all. Like he couldn't even come close. He couldn't even touch like mid Shin almost for a really long time. And then he started boxing. He's going to a boxing studio, where they also box and then they also do hit routines. And then they also stretch. And now he's super flexible. I mean, it's amazing that he's got all of that from one program. But

Amy: 24:27

yeah, I mean probably helps us back to that for sure he

Unknown: 24:31

has he has had a lot of really bad back. Yeah, it's helped him a lot. Today for example, after my run, I really felt shortness in my lower back, you know, because the impact of your foot your feet to the floor. Makes this make this muscle really tight. I guess I'm also in my late 30s now so you know when you're getting older, it's you feel these things more than in the past. So you have to give it attention. I was in the shower. I didn't have time to work to do a proper stretching but that We're standing up in the shower, and forcing myself to stretch myself in these three minutes that I have in the shower. So I don't feel I don't feel my back later on today, if you have to, you have to and you can always find time for it. And to be honest with you people that working out four or five times a week, it's crucial and super important to do yoga. Because yoga, balance it out. The cardio, the heat workouts, the boxing, they're running the strength, whatever you do, you need to do the stretching. Yeah, so we Amy and I both kind of like rotate everything right like I do. reformer Pilates yoga. And then like, like cardio, I don't do intense cardio. But Amy, tell them what you do.

Amy: 25:42

Yeah, I mean, I kind of do whatever feels intuitive that day, I try to move at least 20 minutes a day, sometimes more, sometimes less, I run, I spin, I do a lot of like floor Pilates type work, yoga, just kind of depends. I've just tried to mix it up. Lately, I've been doing more yoga, pilates, because I've been more in that mode. I haven't i i was actually running a couple weeks ago, or actually it was over the summer. And I felt the next day my knee like the outer part of my left knee was hurting. And I was like, it's gonna take a break because it made me a little bit nervous because it's happened to me before. And it's like I could hear it when I was like going up and down the stairs as I'm going to labor. So I haven't really run since then I've just been like, walking, but I'll do a lot of times I'll do a conference call. And I'll just like go on my treadmill and walk the whole time. And it's great. You know, I like burned a lot of calories, they feel good. So just kind of depends on I feel Katie and I talked about this last time, I feel like the older you get, the less like of this intense cardio is appealing because I used to do tons of intense cardio and I like, I just want to do that. Now. Oil is good. When you

Unknown: 26:45

get older, the recovery is very important in order to maintain like good health and good workouts. Also another tip that is important to say, if you do a lot of cardio, and if you go walk on the treadmill, going in incline on the treadmill is much healthier for your joints, especially for your knees than going down. Yeah. All flat or downhill is not very important for your knees. Because I mean, it the movement is invisible. But basically, when you when you're going downhill or you're going flat, the you lock your knee in a way that is not very, it's not very good for it. When you're going uphill, it's actually not happening because you're not blocking your knees entirely. And then you kind of protect them. So the movement is much healthier. If you do incline or one incline, it's very important to keep the gradient because it's really protecting your, your joints. I've done marathons in my life. And you know, if I had a long distance of running downhill, I really felt the impact after on my knees. Yeah, I try to walk always with somewhat of an implant, even if it's just like a one or a two. Just something right.

Amy: 27:59

Yeah. And it helps your hamstrings too.

Unknown: 28:01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Also, if you do a lot of cardio, it's really good. It's really important to do some strength workouts on your legs because your muscle, if the fibers are strong and firm, they are really protecting your bones and cartilage and it's really important to balance it out if you do only cardio, and you don't actually give some effort on your muscles. You want to feel it on your bones sooner or later. And it's really important to make the muscles around your legs super firm and strong and make the fibers hold your bones you know? So yeah, this doesn't have to be done with strength training. Can you do that? I mean, can you achieve that through Pilates and yoga and things like that? Or do you are you like a firm believer that you can only gain muscle with weights? No, no, you can. Very hard workout you can definitely achieve it but you can also you know you can also do some squats and deadlifts and and you know in some lunges at home and achieved just with your bodyweight. You don't need a lot people can achieve a really really nice healthy, fit body with nothing. That's the thing I want to blow all that meet people can really have a healthy body with nothing just a body weight, and their their ambition. That's it. You know, it's great to do a great workout at home especially for girls. They don't usually don't want to grow, grow muscles. If they are really ambitious about it, you can achieve amazing workouts without nothing just you and your yoga mat in your living room set right

Amy: 29:33

it's I feel like it's just all about commitment and consistency and if you're just absolutely now

Unknown: 29:38

just consistency commitment and you know, believe that you can become a better version of yourself and we all can

Amy: 29:44

just so want to move into nutrition and just want to hear about kind of like what your diet is or what you recommends to your clients like because that's least for me getting older diet has become whereas before I didn't think about it as much diet has become such a bigger Do because they feel like everything you're eating, you can just feel it the next day or you know, it's just harder the older you get, like you eat one thing and you gain like two pounds, and you're like, what I just had like a piece of whatever you know, love to hear your thoughts.

Unknown: 30:14

Okay, so just a general thing about, about nutrition, I recommend to all my clients when they first wake up in the morning to drink at least three or four cups of water. If you have them a minute to boil your water, let them let them cool off for a second, squeeze a lemon into it, clear out your body start fresh today. That's amazing. That's a very simple hack that you should, everyone should execute to be honest with you. Also, you know, when you drink a lot of water in the morning, it makes you feel fuller, it helps you go to the toilet much easier because your body is full of fluid. Everything goes smoother, clears your body, the lemon is acid cleanse your your stomach's cleanse your system. And then you start on a fresh foundation. So this is something that I recommend to all my clients. Second of all, I divided them into two parts. So let's say you're awake for 16 hours a day, okay, on the first eight hours, I would recommend you to eat your carbs to eat your pasta to eat your rice to eat your bread. But on the eighth, the second eight hours, start eating all of that and take and consume protein, which is fish, can be lentils can be meat can be chicken, all of that, okay, and fresh fruit, fresh vegetables made in any way. Stir fried ovan, whatever you like. So, you know, I would suggest to eat your carbs during the first time or the first hours of the day. So you use these carbs as a fuel to function during the day. If you eat your carbs in the second part of the day, your body turn tends to store it and keep it inside, especially when you have heavy dinner, let's say 9pm. And then at midnight, you go to sleep, your body does not use these carbs to fuel as a fuel to function, but your body wants to store it. And then the following day, you're waking up uncomfortable, because you had like a very heavy meal. And you actually heavier than you were the previous day. Yeah, I don't believe I don't believe in not enjoying food. I love food. And I eat from every I eat everything to be honest with you. But you know, yesterday I had a heavy meal. So I will balance it out. And I will go for a run today. So I actually you know, I'm actually in a good place because it balances out. Also like you have to consider how much you burn compared to how much you consume. Because if you eat 1500 calories a day, it's just an example. And you just burn 1000 Of course you're gonna gain weight. It's very simple. But to be honest with you the the hack of dividing your data to and take the first half of the day, and eat carbs and eat everything you like, and let your body use these calories as a fuel. And then the second the second part of the day, just try to eat protein and vegetables and as much less carbs as you can. This is a this is a hack that works for everyone.

Amy: 33:21

Yes, easy to remember.

Unknown: 33:23

Yeah, I I feel like though, it's probably key for a lot of people. For me, especially I have slow digestion. So finding the carbs that I can eat in the first half of the day that aren't going to weigh me down or bloat me all day is crucial. So I typically end up doing the opposite of what you say because yeah, sure, like I want to have some some some bread or some rice or whatever. But if it's going to weigh me down and make me feel bloated and feel lousy, then it's going to make me drag all day. But I have found that if I start my day with a giant bowl of fruit, which is it's carbs, it's carbs and sugar, that it gives me great energy and I feel I feel really good. So and then I do find that I like naturally want to eat less heavier carbs later in the day. But yeah, I don't think like some people just you have to find what works for your body. Right? We are very individual and very different. But I think what you say is very true, but it's all about portions. If you sit and eat like a full bowl of rice Of course it's going to make you bloated and exhausted. But if it's going to be monitored and you're going to have I don't know portion of chicken with the sauce and then two or three spoons of of rice. I don't I'm not sure it will make you feel the same way. Okay, yeah.

Amy: 34:33

Yeah, I think portions is such a big I've been focused on that lately just like not because we just these these meals that especially Americans are used to the rough. It's just it's too much. You just need a little bit.

Unknown: 34:47

You don't need it. You really don't need it. We have as modern people as best in the Western world. We have big eyes, we consume way more than we need. You know. For me Like, you know, I never refill my plate. You know, I eat whatever I want. I enjoyed the food, but I never refilled the plate because I know that if I will refill my plate, afterwards, I'm going to feel heavy and tired. And I will not be able to carry on with my day. Lightly smoothly, you know, because it's going to be there, it's going to be stuck in my stomach, I'm going to be too full. Also, if you eat a lot right away, you feel tired, you want to sleep, so your brain is not functioning properly. So a little trick though, just to say, You know what, I'm not going to refill my plate. That's just a good, that's a good little trick. You know, I like

Amy: 35:39

and what about alcohol? Do you drink alcohol,

Unknown: 35:42

I don't drink during the week, it all I usually have one day in the weekend, not more than one day, because if I pour it when I need a recovery, a full recovery time after I drink alcohol, I drink one night, I would even hate the thought of drinking alcohol The following night. So I will find one day, one night in the weekend, you know, especially usually a day that they don't work the following day, because when I drink alcohol out there, I drink

Amy: 36:10

you're all in.

Unknown: 36:13

So I will find one night that I'm drinking and that will be the only day during the week that I actually drink alcohol. And every six months, I take full months of that I clear my body. I don't drink at all. And you know, it gives about it gives you the energy to to you know, to start again. Also, I you know, I just I think I haven't changed in terms of how I look for I think 10 years at least. And I'm the same way as well. I can say it I mean, I'm sorry if it sounds pretentious, but it's true. You you look at because it's amazing. Because I make sure that I drink and this is the easiest, simplest act so that I can you know, that I can recommend to everyone I drink between 20 to 30 glasses of water every day. You know, and this is like I think this is the only thing that really says definitely rejuvenating keeps your body young and healthy. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. So in regards to drinking, too, just to circle back really quickly. Like, we're not even saying, you know, lots of drinks every night. I mean, I know from personal experience, even just like one glass of wine during COVID I would have one glass of wine almost every night. But still, I was like trying to lose the COVID weight afterwards, but still having that one glass of wine and I couldn't lose a pound to save my life. And then finally when I was like, okay, you don't need this one glass every night, chill out. Then I started losing the COVID weight. You know, it's like I put on a few extra pounds. It started to come right off. It's like especially I feel like for women and as we get older, that like one little extra glass Samia block is gonna really screw you over. Right? You know, we? Yes, absolutely. We are very different. You know, each one of us have different needs. And you know, for me, I don't need a glass of wine. You know, I have like a pipe of CBD oil that I take to puffs and I feel great after it relaxes me. It ends my day in a proper way. It fits my brain. You know, it makes me more mellow. And yeah, so for you. It's a glass of wine. It's for me. It's the CBD. It's all

Amy: 38:22

sugar. I know. You don't tell me from that.

Unknown: 38:25

Tell us what that is. What brand are you using? No, really well. So this is the brand that I use. Now someone bought bought it for me. And it's blueberry and raspberry flavor. It tastes amazing. Not harsh. And it's nice and smooth. So yeah. Thanks.

Amy: 38:46

That was definitely a better way to relax. I yeah, definitely had to put in. So before we get into our rap session alone, I gotta hear something about Katie from her younger days, because you know, I hear starting, I hear I don't know if I should open it here. Let's be very careful to X rated but you know, like, we got to hear something juicy. Because let's be real. I didn't know Katie back then. And I have a feeling it was a good time. So

Unknown: 39:15

he and I were actually very close. Very, very close. We were kids in New York, just like trying to figure out our own identities. We did a lot of bad stuff together. Alongside with a lot of good stuff together. We had the time of our lives. Yeah. We had a time of our lives who made amazing people we all we were the most amazing who circle of friends. I have such I have goosebumps just talking about. We lost some amazing people along the way. Our friend dear friend Lisa left us earlier the day she was there she was supposed to but have only good memories from Katie and also also like every time that they seek it at every time I see Katie I feel like the time the time stopped and I see the same girl with the same smile and the same attitude and that's what I love about her nothing changed her nothing touched her. And I hope you feel the same way about Of course I do. Like why is so fast we have so many great memories. Know what go ahead we got some beauty hacks because I prepared my beauty bag.

Amy: 40:32

Oh yeah,

Unknown: 40:33

I love that but first Okay, so just really fast though. How can our listeners find you if they want to work with you? Um, well, they can reach out to me on Instagram and I can leave my phone number with you. I don't have my website right now. It's not an error to be honest with you. I'm working on a new website. So the best way is just go on Facebook on Instagram you'll find me right away alone dude. Right? Definitely. So I prefer I prefer my bag here. Oh my god, I love the shows. I can show you what I what I use you know after all, I'm gay. I'm gay and I'm a model so you know I need to have that tag with

Amy: 41:10

me. It's like a win win of products. I can't wait.

Unknown: 41:14

Let me find just like the the most crucial most important ones and I'm with you in a second okay. Yes, this is your favorite. Okay, beauty. So I must I must say that I don't believe in us is super expensive skincare. I believe in using skincare that have minimum ingredients in it. And each ingredient have like 20 or 30% of the actual product because I find it working way better than product that combining many different ingredients in it. And then it touches many many things but in the end of the day it does nothing. Okay. So I'm gonna start with this. This is company I just I just found out about it. The name of it is the inky list.

Amy: 41:57

Oh I know that brand. Yeah.

Unknown: 41:58

Oh nine caffeine. And this is actually incredible. It well it recommends to use it during the day but I put it at night as well. It is basically just like a caffeine, D puffiness. product. It works amazing. And it's super smooth. It has a lot of moisture in it and it's great for your eyes every time I put it I see the difference right away was the brand what was the first inky

Amy: 42:27

list in the

Unknown: 42:28

list? Nice. Okay. This is the collagen booster of the same brand which is amazing.

Amy: 42:36

Oh, is that like a serum or?

Unknown: 42:39

It's a serum? Okay, it's a very simple product it cost maybe $12 like nine nine in British pounds, but it's amazing. I go to sleep with it at night and I wake up and I literally feel that my skin is smoother

Amy: 42:51

Wow Yeah.

Unknown: 42:54

Now this one is if I want to glam up a little bit or I go out or before photo shoot. The name of the Charlotte Tilbury yeah Charlotte Tilbury and it makes your skin like marble literally.

Amy: 43:12

Is it is it a serum or is it like something you put on top of?

Unknown: 43:18

No no you put it first and then you put your lotion? Okay. Also this all the stuff that I showed you? This is like the foundation you put it first and then you put everything else? Yeah. Okay. No, this is my night. My nighttime mask that I use every like every other day to be honest. Say what it is I slipped at it at a clinic monstrous surge overnight mask of hydration. We are we are facing we are facing the winter now. It gives you a lot of motivation. It's amazing. Super good. Simple, you know cheap product. Nice. And then I have something else I wanted to show you just one moment. Sorry. So there is this brand. I don't know if you ever come to us but it goes face gym. Yes, Jim. I haven't heard of it. Yeah, they have stores. I have this. It looks like clips. Okay, when I put this at night, I take this and I literally massage all the muscles in my face. Yeah. Yeah, like this, my forehead, my cheekbone. All of that. I guess this is like $40 but it's actually very useful. And after you use it for a couple of weeks, you see the difference? For sure. Yeah, we love quassia Nice. Okay. And this is when I'm going out or I want to look super nice for an occasion but it's fashion week now. So I need to play I need to play the game. I find this the best makeup in town girls. This is the best stuff you can ever get. It's amazing. It absorbed into the skin. You cannot see that you wear anything. And it makes your skin look like

Amy: 44:58

marble literally. It It Cosmetics CC cream eight because

Unknown: 45:02

it cosmetics CC cream and then you need to choose your tone. I'm a medium, okay? But it's amazing. And it's also not expensive. It shouldn't cost more than $45.

Amy: 45:13

And it looks like that too, right? Yeah.

Unknown: 45:17

In one drop in one drop, you are covering your whole face you don't need a lot at all. So a tube like this, let's say that you use it twice or three times a week will last for five for four or five months. It's amazing. Honestly, this is the product that I recommend the most. Wow. So yeah, this round of applause

Amy: 45:39

those are all great. We're gonna put them on the show notes for all the listeners.

Unknown: 45:42

Amy's going to turn around and purchase all of them as soon as we can. Because that's a

Amy: 45:49

well since we're talking about products maybe I should give you guys my product review this week. Yeah, let's hear what is your review so my product is called the hot mess ice roller. Okay, I don't know if you can see it. I'm trying to get it close to the camera see? It's by the skinny confidential the skinny confidential is the brands by Lauren Bostick, who's like a fashion lifestyle blogger influencer. She has a podcast her husband Michael owns I think your media Podcast Network. And she this this was her first product that came out and so you put it in the freezer, or the fridge or nothing and it's just a roller and it feels like Yeah, I had it in the freezer overnight and I'm putting it on my skin. It feels amazing. If your face is puffy in the morning, like mine and I know Katie's is all the time like just from it feels so good and it really brings down the swelling in your face so I use it

Unknown: 46:43

look somewhere between like shaver and massager.

Amy: 46:46

Yeah, exactly. It's so it's it's $69 and they say it's a preventative skin tool that uses the power of cold therapy to contour Titan and Depop your skin. The hotness eyebrow is all aluminum roller gets cold fast and stays cold longer than those those are ice roller so I never knew what an ice roller is until this came out. But apparently it's like something that they have like that they sell but they're more like medical, but this one's like more fine. It has a little groove here so you can put your thumb there so it just makes it easy. Oh just kind of go like this and I just

Unknown: 47:21

haven't I need it.

Amy: 47:22

Oh good. I actually do it on my sometimes too. It's my neck is always sore. And I do it on there but it's fabulous. I love it. I do it morning and night so it really helps with the puffiness. So that's tinny, confidential hot mess eye roller and it's it's really fun and I think it just came out recently and I'm looking on their website they just won the 2021 Readers Choice Beauty Awards from InStyle so anyway, yeah good product after you get all your products off and you just do that feels good right in the morning after a night out of of the one day that you drink so

Unknown: 47:56

so now I don't want to skip out on our rap session. I definitely want to hear allowance five minute flow and his Yeah, I mean kind of told us how you maintain your nirvana. But alright, here's what we call our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower. Uber pinged you there five minutes away. What are you going to do to get out the door? Like looking amazing, like you'll always do in that time? Bing bang, boom. I mean, you're a guy so it's so much easier. But what are you okay, so I'll probably well if I'm, if I'm be honest, like in real life, I would probably put you'd sunglasses and a hat. Yeah, I would probably I would probably drink lots of water. Put my vitamin C serum on my face and you woke up? Nice. That's what which Vitamin

Amy: 48:42

C Serum do you use? Was it I use the

Unknown: 48:45

No, no, I don't have it here. Actually, I have it back in London. It's a basically simple. It's a simple clinic drops that I put on my face makes your skin look glowing and refresh. And you know, breasted. Yeah. Plenty guys are working they should be hiring you to do I honestly, I honestly don't. I mean, I change products all the time. Because I believe that your body will your face, get your skin get used to a product, it stop reacting to it. I try things all the time. And also because I'm an influencer, I get I receive a lot of products. So I get to try new things and to see what I like and what I don't like. I also I also must say that like I suffer from a slight rosacea that actually appears in the summer. So yeah, I have to consider that when I choose my product because some some products in really inflame it and make it worse. Yeah, that's I get that from time to time also, so I know exactly what you're saying. Okay, all right. And then how do you maintain your daily nirvana? I mean, you kind of said it earlier. You What do you do you exercise every day?

Amy: 49:51

What's your day so keeps you peaceful? Yeah, yeah,

Unknown: 49:53

I think I think I really like I'm meditating my brain when I run and when I work out And this is the things that I do for my nirvana. I'm usually, I'm usually very calm, I'm not a very stressed person, and I Let life be very politic to my thoughts and to my been, and I don't get too involved. You know, I can think about someone something or something that stresses me out. But I know how to keep it all and don't get too involved with it. And this is what keeps me calm and you know, relaxes me, basically. But, yeah, but basically sports and fitness. And yeah, this is my therapeutic time in my Nirvana time, like this morning that I went for 10 kilometres one, I'm not gonna lie to you. It was a bit hard today, but I've done it. And you know, after I finished it, I'm a whole new person. Yeah, for sure. So yeah. Sorry. It's very simple. Yeah. Yeah, we all kind of do similar things. And it doesn't make such a huge difference. Alright. So before we say goodbye, let's wrap with our mantra. And I thought, since I did this kind of lean D, I'm probably saying it wrong. Yoga this morning, that I would bring the Sanskrit mantra that we used. So nice today, because I had such an emotional moment with it that I almost I had tears rolling down my face at one point. And it's Sat Nam. And what that means is, this truth is my identity. And I mean, I'm just, you know, I'm going through a transitional phase in my life and trying to be really, really true to myself. And like you mentioned, you spoke to it earlier alone, like, knowing who you are and being true to who you are. How important that is. So such nom

Amy: 51:50

Satnaam All right, well, nice to meet you. Oh my

Unknown: 51:57

gosh, yeah, it was so good. Dave. It's so nice. To see you face you to be live soon. Yes. So nice to talking to you girls. And taking part in your show. And we'll speak soon.

Amy: 52:11

Yeah, absolutely. Thank

Unknown: 52:12

you, man. Bye. Bye bye.

Amy: 52:15

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 26 - Dr. Erin Cooper Returns; What We Can And Can’t Control (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 26.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Unknown: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a form of fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started.

Unknown: 0:37

Welcome Nirvana sisters, welcome back this week by absolute popular demand. We have the fabulous Dr. Aaron Cooper is our first reoccurring guest. We'd like to call her our resident psychologist. Her episode Don't should all over yourself with Dr. Aaron Cooper. It was episode eight in the first season did outstanding in case you didn't catch it. Dr. Cooper is a clinical psychologist. And she specializes in mood disorders, anxiety, stress, trauma, romantic relationships, and much much more. The last Convo we had with her was a lot of fun. So we are super excited to have her back. Hey, Coop. Hey guys.

Amy: 1:22

Thanks for back.

Unknown: 1:24

Yeah, welcome back. I should disclaimer because I called her coop. I've known her since I don't know how old we were. So we're really old friend. She's my best friend in the world. So to be more formal, I guess I'll call you Aaron or Dr. Cooper. I mean, actually, I do have some patients that call me Dr. Koop. That's great.

Amy: 1:43

I love that. Dr. Koop.

Unknown: 1:47

Dr. Koop All right. Well, let's kick it off with our weekly Nirvana Ami. What was yours this week?

Amy: 1:53

Well, I would say mine is probably very similar to many in the universe right now, which is my kids went back to school this week. So it was just a nice week because I think the kids were actually excited to go back because they were with my kids school. They were in school last year, but it still wasn't you know, ideal. And this year is still not ADL, they still have to wear masks, etc. But I think they were really excited my little ones starting middle school and my big ones starting high school. So big milestones for both of them. And they were excited. And it was bittersweet for me to see them kind of go on to to new schools and new experiences, but I was happy for them. So it was definitely a Nirvana to see them kind of get back into their element and in a routine. So that's me for the week. What about you, Katie?

Unknown: 2:42

That's really sweet. Well, yeah, I'd say mine is absolutely the same. I mean, Madeline started last week. And it was phenomenal. But for this week, it was received this morning, she, you know, was in school for literally two months last year. So she was so excited to go to school and to be with her friends and to socialize and do the whole bit, so I'm just so I'm happy for her. The child has been sheltered for a large fraction of her life, considering she's three. So it was a great day. What about you, Cooper, mine has been the weather in Cleveland. I don't know if either of you have ever been. So I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, for those who are listening. And I don't know if either of you have ever been here in early September. But the weather is perfection. It is clear blue sky sunshine, mid to upper 70s, no humidity. And it is just like there's the cool Christmas in the morning and then the warm sun in the afternoon. And it is just such a mood lifter, and so well deserved. I think for us Clevelanders because we all know that winter is coming. And in a few short months, it will be gray and snowy. But for now, man, it is hard to beat the weather that we're getting.

Amy: 3:49

I love that. I know we've had some pretty good weather here too. And it really does completely change your mood. You feel like you can do anything when the weather is good. And that fresh air is coming in, you feel like a different human. So that's great. You know,

Unknown: 4:01

most of our listeners already know who you are, Dr. Cooper, but give us a really quick little recap on your career. Tell us how long you've been practicing. You have your own private practice, etc. You just want to give us a little snippet insight for the new listener. Yeah, I've got a private practice that I started when my oldest daughter was born. So she's four and a half. So started it just about little over four years ago. I have a couple of clinicians that work with me as well. And the number of clinicians has waxed and waned over the years. And I've been in practice for about 10 years. You know, I've been in training. I mean, I was in school for 10 years and then there's postdoc training and so I've been doing this a long time and yeah, moving forward, the business is probably not going to grow too much. I've had to rein things in and recognize like how many buckets my energy is getting poured into and and Right now at this time in my children's lives, it's looking like, the buckets are all there. I can't add any more buckets. So just working, I'm working on my own and terms of being satisfied with where things are currently and accepting that, you know, I can't continue to expand and maybe the way that my more ambitious self would like to, because of other responsibilities that I have

Amy: 5:24

failure on that one, I think a lot of us struggle with that. So it's good that you're able to recognize your, your limits, it's hard to do.

Unknown: 5:32

Yeah, for sure. Only so many hours in the day, I feel like that kind of puts us a little bit into some questions that I've been wanting to ask you about, because we thought it would be a good episode to talk about two major topics, control and boundaries. And I think for a lot of people right now, I'm so curious what you're seeing with your patients, because I imagine control is a massive issue for people in the world right now, just because of everything that's going on and still being like, controlled by the government and with COVID. And, and how that can trickle down into every aspect of your life. And he's setting boundaries, like you said, I feel like you just set a boundary for yourself, but for your own health, knowing exactly what you need and how smart it has to do that and to be able to get there. So what are you seeing in regards to your patients that are struggling a lot right now with let's let's start with control. What's a common theme right now that you're that you're seeing? Yeah, you touched on it. It's the the state of the world that we're living in, if you take a step back, and watch too much of the news, and read too many headlines and spend too much time on social media, we are experiencing a lot of cultural, global traumas. And many people are feeling re traumatized by the headlines on a daily or hourly basis. And in response to the anxiety within us that this stuff creates, we often seek to control everything. And our anxiety is at an all time high. And the more that we feel that we can control in our environment, the more at ease, we feel like I have controlled everything, nothing can go wrong, everything will be fine. And it's really important to recognize that there's actually very little that we can control and many of these situations COVID, for instance, somewhat I've had several patients talking about having family weddings coming up and really being worried about how to manage that. And should they go and should they still be having this event, etcetera, etcetera. And I've encouraged people to think about what are the things that you can control based on the information that we have to date, because we can only operate based on the information that we have right now. And so recognizing that if I'm going to throw a wedding for my child, who, Whose wedding has been, you know, pushed back for the past 18 months, because of this pandemic, they really want to have it and they're looking forward to it. Well, what can you can control, you can control the location, whether it's indoor or outdoor, you can control the number of people, whether they come from multiple households, or limited number of households, you can control their vaccination status, you can control whether people wear masks or don't wear masks. And in thinking through, like, what are the things that I have a choice in? And what are the things I don't have a choice in? What are the things that I'm not in charge of. So I had a conversation with a patient recently that to encourage them to recognize that if, if an event is being held, they are not in charge of someone else's decision to come. That ultimately everyone is making the decisions that they feel best to make, to to navigate this pandemic, or really any situation in line with their value system. And we are not in control of other people's choices. And that tends to be a really hard one. For a lot of people to wrap their head around and to accept I think intellectually, we get it like of course, I'm not in charge about other people's other people's choices. But emotionally we feel so invested in other people's choices. And it's very difficult to take a step back and recognize that that's not my monkeys, not my circus. I can't control those people and their choices. Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because there's some aspects that I always wonder like, so there's a level of control that's healthy, and then there's a level of control that's unhealthy and I feel like you just gave us like you just delineated that line, like what you can control yourself is healthy and you can give yourself permission to do that. You just can't control other people. And I mean, speaking as a wife as a mother, sometimes I I really have to remind myself of that, that I cannot control my husband or my children no matter how hard I try.

Amy: 9:50

My best we can I didn't know that. Yes, we can tell us how to do that.

Unknown: 9:58

And best you can influence To the people in your life to to potentially make different choices. So you can't control whether or not your husband decides to put his dirty laundry in the hamper, or on the ground in front of the hamper, right? Because like, at the end of it, he is an adult person. And he's going to make the choice when he takes off his clothes, where they're going to go, you can influence the choice that he makes by communicating to him, how that makes you feel when you see his laundry on the ground, right? Someone's obviously picking that up at some point. That's not just living there indefinitely. So if it's not you, who do you think it might be? And how do you think that might make me feel to continually be picking up clothes from an adult that I'm living with, when there's already these other little people I'm living with, I'm also picking up after. And so again, it's not that I can control what my partner is going to do, or anyone in my life can't control their choices, but I can hope to influence them.

Amy: 11:00

Let me ask you a question about this. And this is just more of a way to say something like that to someone. I think a lot of people struggle with communication in their relationships in their marriage. And what do you think is the best way to communicate feedback, whether it's to your children, to your husband, to your friend, using that example, with the laundry, right? Like, I think, especially with husband, husbands and wife, they get in this pattern of constantly nagging me or someone is passive aggressive, because they're not doing XYZ, but the other person doesn't know and like, what is the most positive way to say, hey, when you do this, this bothers me. Because I think many times people deal with feedback very differently. And they'll, they'll be defensive, or I don't know, I'm just I always like good phrases to start with, like, I'll say to, you know, one of my kids, for example, Hey, let me give you feedback about something you did the other day XYZ. Sometimes when they do that, they, you know, will automatically go on the defense, sometimes I will give them a compliment, and then give them you know, the feedback within the compliment. But do you have any good recommendations on how to position constructive criticism?

Unknown: 12:06

Well, first, before I forget this thought, I don't love the freezing of can I give you feedback?

Amy: 12:14

It's like I use that I use that at work, which is not the right course you do my home? Like,

Unknown: 12:19

of course you do. And it sounds very much like, my boss has just walked into my office to give me feedback. And we all know that's conversation that's not going to go great. Right? Like no one's boss is like, I would like to give you some feedback about that. You were awesome. So I'm not surprised that your kids are reacting defensively, right off the bat, you say can I give you for my husband? Yeah. Well, your husband? Yeah. Because it also the way that the phrasing of it sets up this like power differential of, and it's, it's there with your children, we do have more power than our children, obviously. But with our partner that really shouldn't be there. And to set up a conversation I'd like to give you some feedback is setting the stage for I am your superior, I am above you in some way. And you've done bad. So I would, I would leave that freezing at home.

Amy: 13:13

Yeah, and I am sorry to interrupt one of the one of the things that I always say to my husband and my kids is it's not what you say it's the way that you say it, because they will often say things or my husband will often say things that aren't meant that they come out in a certain way that you're immediately defensive. So yes, keep going. I

Unknown: 13:31

think it's both. It's also what you say and the way that you say it. So timing is really important. When we want to have a meaningful conversation with anyone in our life. Oftentimes, people when they're feeling really intensely and passionately about something, they want to have that conversation like I feel this intense emotion, this emotion is uncomfortable. I gotta, I have to get this off my chest. And we're going to have this conversation right now. But we need to be mindful of what situations need to be in place in order for us to have the best chance of our partner, child, coworker, friend, etc. hearing us and hearing what we're trying to say and having the space and the time to react to it in a meaningful way. So first thing in the morning, not a great time for most people right before bed. Not a great time for most people. I've so many couples that I work with, where they save heavy conversations for like as they're crawling into bed. Like that's it yeah, yeah. I'm like, Dude, I am trying to wind down not now. Right, like I don't need to wind up I don't I'm my brain was turned off. So So you know, first thing in the morning, right? Right before bed, right before meal. I mean, you know, like being hangry that's a thing. And if I'm hungry, I am not paying attention to what you're saying to me. I'm paying attention to the food that I want to get in my belly. You know if some ones on their way out from work. Or if someone has just walked in the door from work, and you're like, hey, here's all these things that I need to tell you. It's like, oh, timeout, like, Give me three seconds to shift my brain from one task to the next. So I actually am a big fan of planning, standing meetings to have these kinds of conversations, it requires a lot of diligence on your end in terms of managing your own emotional response throughout the week, and sort of saving it holding it for them. You can do that with your spouse, you can do that with coworkers, you can do that with your children. Hey, let's have a check in how are we doing? How are you feeling? Is there anything that's come up this past week, so timing is super, super important. And then being both mindful of me, as you said, sort of your tone, but then also the words that you say, and I think that when we, when everyone is doing that, then things are gonna go the most smooth. However, we need to recognize that we're all human beings. And none of us do this perfectly. I mean, I, I teach people how to do this on a daily basis. And I assure you, I do not do this perfectly. So we do have to just allow for some grace, that that maybe our partner is, is coming at me in a way that feels a little intense, fine, feel like I'm being attacked. But maybe it's because they whatever it is, that they are bringing to my attention is beyond their ability to manage their own emotional response in the time that they are doing the best that they can with what they've got in that given moment. And maybe in that given moment, they're coming off a little intense. And so I have a couple of options here. I encourage couples to develop like a code word of, you know, like, banana, when someone's getting really intense, like something silly to sort of, like, let them know, like, Hey, you're doing that thing that you do were like, really excited, and kind of makes me feel defensive. So, you know, but then also, perhaps most importantly, paying attention to the words and the content of what our partner is saying. And trusting that they're saying what they mean. And I think that that is often a really challenging thing we're trying to read between the lines, we're interpreting tone, etcetera, etcetera. And I think that it can be really helpful for couples, or parents and children or friends or coworkers to simply trust that the person you have this relationship with, is saying what they mean, and listen to the content of, of what they're saying, instead of assuming all of this background intention, and assuming the feeling behind it, because we don't actually know until they tell us none of us are mind reader's, I always try when I am, you know, if there's like a big thing that I need to discuss with Adam or my kids or something I always try to start with like, this is coming from love. You know, like, I might not always say those exact words, but I try to like, give them that tone. But like, again, this is when I have been managing it. This is not just like on a random Wednesday, when something happens, and I fly off the cuff, which which happens, which, you know, kind of like circles back to the control thing. Like, I definitely want to like snap a little more quickly. And, you know, if the kids are doing something I don't want them to do instead of letting like, they might not be hurting anything. They're not hurting anyone. They're not necessarily like ripping my house apart. But maybe it's like, it's too noisy right now, or it's just, it's more than I can take. So I try to get them to stop. I try to control them in that moment. And I'm personally trying to work on like, I don't need to control that, you know, like, at what point do you say to yourself, let your child be your child, let them do what they're going to do. Like, you know, what, what lines do you use within parenting? Do you think it's time to reel in that control? I think that natural consequences are a really good thing to rely on. So if my children are doing something that is going to get them injured, it's my job as their parent to intervene, right? Like, we would never watch our child run into the front yard and head for the street with a car coming be like that. She's gonna learn eventually. Right? Like, That's not. That's not how that works. That's a good way to get your kids taken away. But if if my kids are and this just happened last night, if my kids are simultaneously banging a toy hammer on their toy, and the other ones playing on the toy piano as loud as they possibly can, I mean, they're not hurting anything. Are they driving me a little insane? Yeah, more than a little insane. But do I need to intervene and stop and say, Oh, no, let's go and read a book. Well, maybe in that moment, that's what their little bodies need. Or if they're older kids, maybe that's what you know, maybe they're riding bikes with their friends and, you know, playing video games or whatever, that actually should be limited. But you know, maybe they're playing guitar in the garage, whatever it is. Maybe that's what their bodies and their minds need at that given time, even though it's clashing with what I need. And so in that moment, you know, well, so we recognize what can I control? Well, I can attempt to control my children. It's probably not gonna go well. I mean, granted, my kids are toddlers, so it's really not gonna go well. But, I mean, I would argue even with older kids not gonna go that well, even if they even if they acquiesce to what I want them to do, they're not going to love me for shifting them off the thing that they prefer to be doing, right. So what can I do in that moment when my kids are making all this noise and I'm overstimulated, and I need them to stop? Well, instead of controlling them, because they're not hurting themselves or anybody else. I can remove myself from the room, I can remove myself from the situation. Within reason, I can't leave the house and go to the store and be like, alright, toddlers, good luck. But I can, you know, close the baby gate, and go into the bathroom and shut the door and just sit for a minute. So in the situation that you were describing, Katie, I would think about not how do you control them to make them do what what you want the girls to be doing in that given moment? But think about what do you need in that given moment, to bring your anxiety back down, to feel less overstimulated, and to be able to come to them with love and kindness? Yeah, that's such great advice, as good as

Amy: 21:19

my husband needs to listen to this. Because as Katie knows, he likes quiet. And so whenever the kids are loud, he can't it's he gets very overwhelmed. So yeah, good. Little tip. And then just before we continue on this conversation, just going back to the whole, I'm using the word feedback, because I don't know another word. We want to use USSR say me, I know what is the what is the best way to approach it. I do like this idea of like having a weekly kind of conversation or something. When is the best time to do that? And know, we talked about the times where it's not good, but like, when is it that is it? Is it good to do that on a weekend? Is it good to do like, after dinner? Like when's the best time to do that? And then how do you sort of start the conversation in a positive way, a phrase you could use in terms

Unknown: 22:04

of when you do it, it depends on the relationship and what works best for that relationship. So some, some people, mostly couples will institute this kind of thing. Gottman calls this the State of the Union visit, you know, what's the state of our union. So for some couples that I've that I work with, weekends, or it, you know, it's like Sunday morning, over coffee, kids are playing independently, like we're both kind of chill, etc. For other couples is like, I don't want to think about that kind of stuff on the weekend. Like, let's just knock this out after the kids go to bed on a Wednesday night. So it really just depends on what works for the two of you, for some people first thing in the morning can be a perfectly fine time to have any kind of serious conversation. It just is not for most and so it's those aren't times Amy that are like just strictly off limits don't do these are their thing times to be mindful of that many people are not open to having a conversation. That doesn't mean that. Yeah, so just respecting that, you know, respecting that, that people have certain boundaries, and have certain aspects of themselves that are not, are not going to permit them to have an early morning or late night conversation. But if you and your husband are people who can have that conversation, right before bed, go for it, in terms of starting a conversation off positively, I wouldn't put it honestly wouldn't put a ton of pressure on yourself to come up with this, like, perfect appropriate for, you know, a piece of canvas type quote of like, let me lead into this positively. Because if you're having a meeting to talk about these things, the expectation is we're both coming together to have a conversation about what's going on in our marriage. And so the intention of this business meeting has already been set. So I don't know that you even need to have something pre made, I think you can just sit down and say like, you know, how's

Amy: 24:00

the intention is already there? It's not a surprise.

Unknown: 24:04

Exactly. Whereas when it is a surprise, right? You have to know. Yeah, like and my husband's like, Hey, we got to talk about, you know, what our weekend plans are? And I'm like, you're not? Yeah, that is actually, you know, he could tell you. So

Amy: 24:24

let me ask you a question based on your experience with, you know, talking to a million people about this, this idea of like a weekly discussion, or weekly touch base or State of the Union, are most husbands into that or wives because I could see some people being like, I'm not doing that.

Unknown: 24:41

There's definitely a lot of people who are like, I'm not doing that. And I've had both partners tell me like, I'm not doing that. For some couples, they will do it for a couple of months. And they're like, you know, I think that we're in a good groove. Now that's really helped us work out some kinks. And they use it as long as they need to, and then they move on. And I've had other couples were like, you know, this is a good game changer for us. This has cleared up so much tension, so much miscommunication because I mean, I go so far I have people take notes, you know, and I have them like switch off, like who's taking notes so that one person doesn't become the secretary. It's like, you know, switch off taking notes have an agenda, like treat it like a proper meeting, and put it on the family schedule, and it doesn't get moved. And so some people are like, this is a game changer. We're doing this until we die. And then other people will do it for a week or two. Like many things in life, it's hard to become a habit, it falls off. And then they will say we've had all these fights lately, like Dr. Cooper, we haven't been doing those meetings, we need to get back to those meetings. So you know, they can be very helpful. There certainly are some couples are, they're not a fix for everything. But they can help open the lines of communication by giving both partners an opportunity to look forward to plan and think about how they want to communicate with their partner what they need to communicate with their partner, and have a designated time for it instead of this. How am I going to catch your attention long enough in between Joey's soccer practice and Sally's clarinet rehearsal and school and work? And when are we going to have this conversation, it gives both both parties something to look forward to.

Amy: 26:15

Yeah, I love that. It actually reminds me of when my kids were smaller, well, like pre pandemic when the kids were younger. And I felt like I wasn't spending because I was working so much. I felt like I wasn't spending enough time with them. And I felt like my kids weren't like talking to me as much. And I remember my pediatrician was like, You should do a monthly, I forget what you call it, like a monthly meeting, like a monthly fun day or whatever, where everyone leaves their electronics at home and you go do an activity, whether it's hiking, or biking, or walking, or whatever it is, she goes to naps when you communicate with your kids. And we started doing that we had it on the calendar every month, and it was great. And it really did help get everyone closer. So it's sort of the same thing just manifested a different way. Well, I'm

Unknown: 26:53

particular, it can be really beneficial to try to talk over an activity like playing cards or going for a walk. Because it's harder for kids. You know, there's they don't know how they're feeling right? So it's it's hard for them to sit down and look mom and dad in the eye. You know, I feel anxious because I don't know if I'm gonna get a good grade in English or not like is that that's some kids can do that. Man, I

Amy: 27:17

actually find that I've told my husband that a lot like talk to Jackson, our older one when he's playing video games, like play a video game with him, because he'll just naturally talk to you about things. And anytime we do that with our kids, they always are, you know, talking or telling us things without actually having like a serious conversation, but they just mentioned things and then you talk about it.

Unknown: 27:36

It's the whole like meeting thing you were just completely reminding me of when Adam and I first started dating We were together for as you guys know, six years before we got married, we had check ins, these occasional check ins, because I knew that he was like, not ready to settle down. And he was having a hard time with the idea of being monogamous and everything. So like we decided we would occasionally check and like so still feeling this, like still into it. And it worked. And it kept us on track. And you know if there was ever a time where he was like, yeah, like, alright, so maybe we take little space apart from each other for a little while. You know? And same with me. Yeah, marriages is no different. Katie, every day in a marriage every day, we wake up and we choose to remain married. So right, yeah, so so true, you know, keeping these check ins while we're married, marriages end. And so every day that we were married, we are waking up and choosing to remain in this marriage. And so having these check ins can be very beneficial. Yeah, true. I

Amy: 28:36

also have a strategy that I've been using lately. And I want to know what you think of this. Dr. Koop. So I started, I don't even know if my husband, I don't think my husband knows this. But I have notes in my phone. And when I get annoyed at something he does, I just write it down. Because it helps me process it instead of being annoyed with him. Or being like, I have to talk about this, I literally will just write something down, almost like I'm talking to myself, but I write it in my notes. And then I don't even think about it anymore. And sometimes I revisit it and I'll look at it and be like, Yeah, that wasn't that big of a deal. Or I'll look at I'll be like, Oh, I should really talk about this. Of course, I haven't really done anything with the notes yet. I think the notes would probably be good to bring to a weekly check in. But I think it's also good because sometimes depending on, you know, your hormones, what time of the month, and he could get more annoyed than usual. And I I find it helpful for me to write it down because it helps me to reflect and look back. Sometimes I'm exaggerating. And sometimes the points are valid, whether I addressed them or not. I probably should because sometimes I just forget about it after I write it. But what do you think of that idea?

Unknown: 29:40

So I love that. It's essentially a journaling. Yeah, your journaling as opposed to you know, longhand? It's great. I think you should continue doing that. I recommend that a lot of people most people could probably benefit from doing that what you do with it? Well, the answer to what to do with it is that you don't always have to do something with it. So when you go back and you read it and you go Hmm, like not that big a deal. That's a great example of how in the moment, our emotions can feel so overwhelming and so accurate and so intense. But then if we give it a day or two, or even a couple of hours, like that was really not that, like, I don't care. And I think that, what's nice about that exercise for you is that without you even realizing it, it's highlighting the fact that we don't have to talk about everything that our partner does, or our children do, or our friends do. That annoys us. And if we did, most of us would not have very many positive relationships. Like it, no one wants to hear constantly, all the ways that they are failing to be the ideal role in your life. And so, you know, especially in our marriages, because my goodness, there's, there's plenty of fodder there. We really shouldn't. And I'm not a big fan of the word should, as you guys know, that's a rare exception. We I mean, we really don't benefit from talking about every little thing that our partner does that irks or noise or upsets us, right. But what you can do when you go back and review those notes is if you see themes emerging, like oh, like, oh, man, this thing that has been like, really, under my skin has been under my skin for 18 months. Yeah, okay. Maybe it's time that we have a conversation about a good point, an emerging theme. Yeah. Because I actually do that too. I've written down things that that I'm does it irritate the crap out of me so that I could talk to them about right, so

Amy: 31:31

then you're not talking about specific situations, but you're saying like these, this keeps coming up in various ways.

Unknown: 31:37

One, having specific examples is still important. But it doesn't have to be like this. One thing happened one time, and now we need to have this big, long discussion about it. Because a lot of partners are gonna like, what sorry that I was an imperfect human that day III, right, like, whereas if you can say like, Hey, I've been keeping some notes and journaling. And I was looking back through it the other day, and I realized that this thing that you did on Saturday is pretty similar to what you've been doing for the past, you know, month, the past 12 months, the past two years. And every time it upsets me, and it's still upsetting me. And I would like to figure out a way that we could work through this and help you understand how this impacts me and how it makes me feel right, because still tying back to what you initially said a few moments ago about giving grace, I think that's like a common thread in our discussion today is the importance of giving grace to those around us. Because, you know, we write these things down. If we brought up every single thing all the time, then we would probably be nowhere fast. Right? Things would exactly relationships would not be hanging out. So So yeah, yeah, I like that. It's a good, that's a good one to

Amy: 32:51

remember. And I do like, the idea, which I guess I sort of inherently know. But to make sure that you're talking about it when the time is right. Because that's I think it's really important for the kids because I think both my husband I both have a habit of like wanting to address something right away. But you always know like, when a top I mean, not that I've toddlers but it's like that idea when you have a toddler screaming, it's not the time to try to do it. You know, you got to wait till the kid has come. And I think for for relationships, the same thing, like my husband, as Katie knows is like the worst sleeper in the universe. So when he hasn't had a good night's sleep, it's like, forget it. I'm not talking to him all day, right? I have to wait until he's like refreshed, not hungry, whatever to like, have a conversation that's productive. Otherwise, forget about it.

Unknown: 33:35

Yeah, as I would be no. Right, exactly. Well, I think we're gonna have to save boundaries for the next time you come back, because we just crushed it on control in relationship. And now we have so many

Amy: 33:47

so many questions. And I'm sure these are all common, right? Is this like what everybody asks you? It's like the same thing, right? Everyone kind of has the same challenges I would imagine.

Unknown: 33:57

Yes, all not all, many humans have some of the same human challenges. So these are nothing nothing that we've talked about today is something that I haven't talked about with patients before. And in really, at this point, it's it's pretty rare that someone brings something where I'm just like, wow, I'm, I am stumped. I've no one I've ever talked to has ever had this issue in any way, shape, or form. Because, you know, human beings are inherently imperfect and human beings struggle with being human beings.

Amy: 34:27

I think to the the pandemic has made this better and worse, because I think, like, I am home so much more than I ever have been, which I love and I feel like my relationships are better because of that. But since you're spending so much time with your family, you're also identifying things are getting annoyed with things easier because you're just around more and everyone's around each other more. So it's a catch 22

Unknown: 34:50

Well, um, because then everyone's individual wants and needs are bumping up against each other more often. Whereas when we have these sort of delineated like you go to school, you go to your office, et cetera, we have our spaces where, like, within that context, my wants and needs are being managed for eight hours of the day or six hours of the day or what have you. But when everyone is at home for longer and longer periods of times, all of my wants and needs all my partner's wants and needs, all my children's wants and needs. They're all just like, you know. So like, what are those cars, those children's cars were crashing together, trying to get what you want. Out of this same context, which is the health

Amy: 35:41

there's an article that will post I haven't read it yet, my friend sent it to me last night, just talking about the pandemic and the way that people are feeling on the New York Times, it's called, there's a name for the black, you're feeling it's called languishing. And there's a whole article about it, you can access it. So she's gonna send it to me, but was just an interesting idea. Because I think a lot of people are in this last state at this point of the pandemic, with all of the new things coming out. And all these, like you were saying in the beginning of the show, the news and all of these new variants, and it's just very anxiety producing and kind of making people feel just

Unknown: 36:16

right. Yeah, I think there's also a sense of, of loss and grief that many people are experiencing, like, Katie, you were saying, with Rhys, you know, she only got two months of school last year, she's been so isolated. You know, I shared last time, my daughter, my four and a half year old has a number of complex medical needs. And to say that my two children have been isolette. I mean, she's in school right now only by thank goodness, the school board mandating masks, which allows it to be somewhat safe for her. But I mean, we don't go anywhere other than the zoo. And because the zoo is outdoors, my children don't go on playdates, they don't go to the playground, if you think about how much time has been lost in this pandemic, and then we continue to hear about more and more variants, etc, etc. The sense of loss just kind of stretches and stretches like, oh, like we only thought it was going to be a short period of time. And now it's like how much more time and freedom of being able to live our lives in the way that we want to safely without endangering the lives of others? How much more loss are we going to endure? And I think that's what is sort of underlying the way a lot of people are feeling is

Amy: 37:30

right, and it's our control. And that's the hard part

Unknown: 37:33

out of our control. So what can I control? Well, I can't control the fact that there's an awful lot of people that don't believe COVID is a thing or that it's a serious thing. But I can control the ways that I keep my daughter safe. And I can do that by communicating with her physicians and her school and making sure that she's masked and practice wearing a mask. And I can control the choices that I make and getting vaccinated and wearing a mask wherever I go, and who we interact with and how long we interact with them for and what context. Those are the things inside of my control. Because if I get bogged down with things that are outside of my control, I mean, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. Yeah, isn't that true? Well, that's all excellent, excellent advice. And thank you very much for it, because I think it's like such a pivotal point again. And last time when we had you on we were literally talking about the home stretch of COVID. And guess what? It was home stretch. So then, but what I think we should do now, and we did it last time, but I'm just curious if anything's changed up as our rap session, you want to stick around for it. We have a couple of the fun questions for you. Sure. Okay. All right. So what's one of your favorite wellness and beauty hacks now mine at this point is avoiding added sugar, gluten and dairy. I spent the majority of my adult life very interested invested and in love with those three food groups, air quotes, right sugars. But for me it was and cutting those out of my life. I mean, it's just been a game changer. For me. I think it is improved my health across the board. And I couldn't be more thankful for for the fact that I made that choice and have stuck with it because now I can't imagine going back nice and it helps with your autoimmunity. Also, because it helps with my it's I mean, it greatly manages my autoimmune disease, but also, you know, it helps manage just the way that my skin looks the way that my body looks the way that my clothes fit the functioning of my daughter. I'm sure Yeah, right. I'm not nearly as emotionally tied to sweets and desserts. And I mean, I used to not be able to walk past like in grad school, there'd be like free doughnuts for a talk. I mean, I just I could not walk past it without having to have them not just one too now. I mean, I walk past desserts or you know, look at the dessert menu. It's like no, none of this is going to make me feel as good as I feel without it. So no thanks for yeah Yeah, that's

Amy: 40:00

great. Same question, maybe your answer will be different. You just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you that they're five minutes away. What is your quick beauty routine? What do you put on? What are your go to Holy Grails to get out of the house and in the car on time, but I will switch it because last time we just said, it could be whenever like, you're going out. But let's say you're going to work and you happen to be taking over that day, you only have five minutes to get ready. How does it change for you?

Unknown: 40:26

Nice reoccurring guest twist. So actually, I will say that the first time I was here, you guys hadn't done this yet. I remember, I remember listening and being like, Oh, that's a new question. And so the reality is, if this was an Uber, if I'm taking an Uber, it's because I'm going someplace nice. Like it's a special occasion. Ring. Yeah. And the reality is, is I'm going to make the Uber wait. Right writing,

Amy: 40:56

no one has said that one.

Unknown: 40:58

I mean, that's my, that's my boundary. Like, if it's a special occasion, I'm taking an Uber, I'm gonna, I'll take the low rating on the chin, I'll pay whatever fee but I'm gonna make them wait because I want to feel my best on a night out and I want to look my best

Amy: 41:14

way to get ready in five minutes, I'm not going to

Unknown: 41:17

just not going to happen. Especially if I'm fresh out of the shower, no way. However, if it's work, right, like there's, you know, there's a hard stop or a hard start for that, right, I have a patient scheduled, I gotta get to work. In that case, I'm going to attempt to pull my short hair back, but I'm gonna throw my foundation inside my mix it with my moisturizer, put it on, you're going to use one of my eyebrow pencils that are faster. So I can just like quickly fill in my brows. And then I'm going to go with a bold lip. And I'm going to use my Maybelline LashBlast mascara and the orange tube. Oh, because I have been relying on Old Faithful since it came out. And I've tried all the more expensive brands and have yet to find anything that I liked nearly as much love it. It's a good one. All right. So how are you maintaining your daily Nirvana these days? Last time, I think he told us just movement and getting on the treadmill and all that same stuff for what are you up to? Some of the same stuff. But I'm also reminding myself that while this particular moment might be difficult, it can always be worse. So helping reframe things that you know, like the storm eventually passes. And and even though this is challenging, it could be worse for me and it is worse for other people. And so having such a shift in my mindset allows me to bring some more gratitude into my heart and being more thankful that okay, this, this is bad. And this is hard. And this is challenging, but it's not as bad as it could be. Yeah, that's really good. Like made me tear up a little bit because I kind of needed to hear that right now. So yeah, that's a great one. I like that a little perspective shift is always important. Yeah, amazing. All right. Well, do you have time to stick around for the product review on the mantra, or do you need to head out? Sure, sure. Okay. Amy, do you have a product? I

Amy: 43:08

really don't and I forgot to ask you. So we can, we can skip on that this week or I

Unknown: 43:18

just discovered, this tart has a new it's called lippy lingerie out. It's like a pencil slash lipstick. And they have a lot of really beautiful colors. I'm kind of obsessed with the way that it goes on, and how it feels throughout the day. I'm frequently on Zoom calls with patience. And you know, I like a good bold lip.

Amy: 43:41

Is that what you're wearing now?

Unknown: 43:43

It is what I'm wearing. Yeah, it's

Amy: 43:44

gonna tell you that before that. I love your lips. Yeah,

Unknown: 43:47

this is the shameless color. But it's like a pencil, which initially I didn't. Yeah, I didn't initially love the pencil part, but it helps me apply it exactly where I want it. I get a nice crisp line. And it's got kind of a matte look to it, but it's feels very moisturizing. Unlike the other matte lipsticks. I've tried. I'm kind of obsessed with

Amy: 44:08

it. Like a liner and a lipstick together. It looks like no one really. Yeah.

Unknown: 44:13

I mean, it's like a lipstick that they shaped into a giant toddler crayon.

Amy: 44:17

I guess it looks like

Unknown: 44:19

what you get. I didn't love that part. But the colors are gorgeous. And the way that it goes on and stays on. It doesn't dry out. It doesn't get cracked. It doesn't it's not gross. At the end of the day. I just I really like it.

Amy: 44:31

And it's by far You said it's my target. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, that's a good one. Probably get

Unknown: 44:37

it like Sephora, Amazon, any of those places, right? Yeah. And actually, I think even like Target is carrying Ulta and Ulta carries talks. Right? That's right, and give them target now.

Amy: 44:48

No, I love that. Target. I saw that recently. It's really fun. All right, well, that's an awesome one. We always have a good a good lippie reco and I love the name too.

Unknown: 44:56

Thank you for that review. That was fantastic. And let's go ahead and wrap with our Montra this one's a little lengthy, but I saw it and I just loved it. I think you guys will love it too. So I don't know if it's necessarily a mantra, but we'll see. We'll see what you guys think of it. Be like a tree. stay grounded, connect with your roots, turn over a new leaf bend before you break. Enjoy your unique natural beauty and keep growing. Oh, I love Michelle's love, because that's a mantra. That's really good.

Amy: 45:27

That's, that's great. And that's a good perspective shift like you were just talking about. So with that, thank you, Dr. Koop for being on the show. Again, as our resident. This has been so helpful. I feel like I've been through a session and now I feel very armed with good tools. So I hope our listeners will too. I'm sure they will. And I'm sure they'll want you to come back. So thank you so much for being on Nirvana sisters, and for continuing to inspire us and give us all this amazing insight.

Unknown: 45:57

My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you.

Amy: 46:00

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 23 - 8 Hot Topics in Skin Right Now with Board Certified NYC Dermatologist Dr.Rachel Nazarian - Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 23.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie:0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a form of fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy:0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Welcome back to Nirvana sisters, this is part two with Dr. Nazarian, we hope you enjoyed part one all about the skin. This episode really focuses on skin conditions, the face under eye darkness, fillers, Botox surgery, Body Sculpting fat removal and a game changing injectable for cellulite. And Katie also has a great product review at the end. So stay tuned for that and hope you enjoy part two.

Katie:1:10

Well, I would like to touch on a little bit of a personal note. And that is psoriasis. My husband, my mother and now my seven year old daughter habit. And my seven year old has had one large patch on her leg that has now spread to I don't know maybe like 30 or 40 spots. And we're just we're trying to kind of wrap our head around it like my husband, he's had it his whole life. But it comes and goes it's pretty late. And it's completely stress related. When he's low stress. It's gone when you know otherwise. And my mom's has gotten better. I think she's in what they actually call it psoriasis remission. I think I've read somewhere she doesn't have it anywhere. But my seven year old all of a sudden it's popping up all over the place. And I don't I don't know what to do for her aside from the topical steroid cream that was given to her that I don't really love using. So any any thoughts or advice? A

Dr. Nazarian:2:05

lot of thoughts? You're kidding. Tons of thoughts. First of all, your mother and your husband, right? So you have psoriasis, which we know is genetic on your mom's side, on your side, right, the mommy side. And then we have it on Daddy side. So this poor girl like obviously, she was getting the two hits from both sides, right? But it's gonna be fine, it's going to be fine. You know, Psoriasis is a skin condition where essentially the skin is just overreacting to we don't know what so normally the cell cycle is you get your new skin and then it's sloughs and you know it has like however many weeks cycle that takes your skin to renew itself fine. For people that have psoriasis, for whatever reason, this normal timeline is like revved up. So you just keep making more and more with the skin just basically piles up on itself. So it leads to these thick, red scaly plaques. But it is an inflammatory condition we know that involves inflammatory cytokines in the body. And it can also create some issues and other parts of the body with inflammation. So it's not just a skin condition, right, it can affect the joints, we know that it can affect cardiac, you know, so people can get arthritis. And definitely stair flares with stress. But the good news is, is that when I say we've come a long way, I mean, we have come a long way. When it comes to psoriasis. Every few years, there's a more and more and more targeted therapy for psoriasis. So back in the day, what they used to do is just suppress the immune system. Because you know, I'm telling you, this is like basically an overactive immune system in the skin, right, too much skin too much skin. And so you would suppress that, and you would help your psoriasis but it would also leave you a little bit more vulnerable to infection. That's what you need your immune system to fight. And so what they ended up doing is finding what we call biologics that now target closer and closer and closer the pathway to the inflammatory targets that cause psoriasis. So rather than like blocking the whole immune system, you're blocking it less and less and less, right, more and more targeted, which means way less side effects Much, much safer, easy for people to do. I mean, I have patients on biologics that they only have to give themselves the medication four times a year, every few months. Done. And that's nice because regardless of how much skin they have effective, which is obviously really upsetting. You know, I don't have to worry so much about their joints, you know, protected them. Because, God forbid you get really psoriatic arthritis that can be really tough. And so you want to catch those things before they really start to decrease quality of life for patients. Now, steroids which are like the topical creams, typically we don't we don't really do oral steroids for psoriasis, topical creams, and some ways you can think of it as working more locally right? So you're not affecting the whole immune system. All you do is Orbison, but should be fine, you know a little bit here and there when they need it. If you find that a patient is becoming sort of not dependent, but like needs it all the time, in order to keep their psoriasis in check, then we like to actually do vitamin D analogues, maybe you've heard of like hospital trying, those take a little bit longer to work. There's things like vitamin D. And so those take a little bit longer to work. So generally, we'll kind of get them started on the steroid cream, so they just feel like better faster, and then give the vitamin D cream a little bit more time to work. And then they can do that more long term. That's a really great regimen. If somebody you know only has a couple patches, let's say or it's like, it's realistic for them to be able to apply it. We even do topical retinoids if you want to go back to that, because remember, I told you right now it's helped like regulate the cell cycle and get more normalized like get rid of like old skin help healthy new skin take its place. So actually what retinoids will do for psoriasis will also help regulate the way the cells are behaving and act more normal. So retinoids are a wonderful part of some psoriasis regiments. You can even do ultraviolet therapy or phototherapy, even safer than going outside, rather than going outside and baking, which a lot of people used to do for their psoriasis because they got better in the sun and then exposing yourself to all this radiation, which increases your risk of skin cancer. Now we just use specific wavelengths. And that's even safer than being outside for a couple minutes. And so you can do that for your psoriasis and just target the areas that you need. There are so many different ways to treat psoriasis, depending on what area of the body it is. But, you know, my my advice would be don't get, don't get nervous about the medications. I mean, I have family members that are on them. I don't know how I would feel if I had to put my child on medicine, my kids are so young, I made you feel like I probably always be nervous about everything. I mean, I'm a doctor, I still get a little nervous when they get vaccines that tells you what Mom Brain is and what Dr. Brain is, I can't shut it off. They're going back. So of course they're gonna get their vaccine for like, I don't know why my head just goes, Oh, my child's can, you might say something wrong, because it's gonna happen, you know. And with psoriasis, I think would probably be the same, I'd be a little nervous, I understand that. But if she is getting to the point where it's really impacting how she feels about herself and her life and how she looks, oh my gosh, don't be scared, don't be scary. These medications are so safe now. And if you think about it, they're protecting the inside of her body. Right? So let's cardiac issues, less joint issues, you know, the patients that are on some of these biologics actually have better cardiac health, long run less cardiac events, you know, or just healthier patients because of what these medications can do. Now, you know, she's young, you want to see how the creams work for a little bit, I get it, you want to have alternatives to steroids, whether you do the vitamin D, or you do truly the non steroidal creams that work similarly, but are safe. For long term, maybe names you've heard of like Ella del Protopic. Those are other medications you can use. There's a lot of options on the menu, and just be open to them. Let them lay out all the risks and benefits on the table. But you know, for a lot of the stuff that's out there honest to god, I wouldn't hesitate. I really wouldn't for myself, my gosh, no problem. For my family members. Really, I think it's the right choice.

Katie:8:37

That's, that's very

Amy:8:38

encouraging. That sounds really treatable. Like if you're gonna have something at least it's like a treatable thing that she has not something that's not as

Dr. Nazarian:8:46

psoriasis, you know, I

Amy:8:47

mean, that's, that's right.

Katie:8:50

Now, that's very encouraging, because she used steroid creams are just not working out for her. They're not honestly, they're not really helping that much. And she is a little bit more high strung. And I just thought, you know, steroids can seep in, even if it's in little doses. So it's not even helping. So it's good to know that she has she has other options, we're going to look into it. So I appreciate that. Thank you.

Dr. Nazarian:9:12

Of course, reach out if you have more questions. I'm happy to continue talking about it. Okay. Thanks. Thanks.

Amy:9:18

So I have some questions. Because I'm obsessed with this topic. puffy eyes, dark circles, ridges hollowness, like as you get older, and you have that, like I've tried so many different creams different like there's just, I know there's not a miracle cream, but do you have advice for like the puffy the darkness, like all of that lovely stuff that starts happening to your eyes.

Dr. Nazarian:9:41

Alright, so under eyes, there's a couple things that happen in the under eyes, right? So as you get older, your skull changes, right? The skull of an eight year old is not the skull of a 16 year old, like anatomically there's different right. And so one of the things that happens as we get older is the eye sockets. hollowed out. So you ended up getting contour changes, right where the eyes are a little bit more sort of sunken in looking as you get older, and then the tear trough start to cast a shadow to your trough is that sort of like Ridge underneath your eyes, right? So it tends to cast a shadow, as you get older. Some people they're just like, that's just how they look, they're kind of born like that, that's just the shape of their face naturally. Most people even if that's not your natural shape, as you get older, you will notice that sort of happening, that's part of it. Other thing that happens as we get older for many, many, many people is that those wonderful cushions of fat that sit around the eyeball, tend to kind of move and migrate a little bit as things shift, and also puffed out and herniate a little bit as not only as you get older as a skin sort of weakened and thins out as well. Right. It's a very delicate area, a little bit of Cushing. And as a skin weakened, you kind of heard it a little bit. Well, that's where you get like the true puff that real bag. Right? As opposed to I was talking about before, which is like a contour hollow and like shadow being cast, right. Neither one of those issues can be covered with foundation or concealer, whatever it is that people are using these days, you can't you can't cover contour, either a puff or a shadow with color, it's not gonna change anything, right? That's a little test. It's how you know, versus true pigment, whether it is from rubbing allergies, or whatever else or just genetic, some people just have true dark pigment on the skin. So you can like pull the skin down, you'll still see that colors is a different shade, right. And then lastly, the area is very thin. So oftentimes, if you have thin skin in this area, it's almost like translucent. And you can see like purple blood vessels underneath you basically the lights just shining through, right. So you have translucency you have pigment, you have puffiness and you have a true shadow from a hollowing. Okay, all those things play into the on your eye area that isn't even really get into like wrinkles and sagginess. But that we all kind of already know how to identify, all right. All of those things are treated differently. They're not treated the same, right? So you really need to know what's the issue in order to pick the right fix. So, for the hollow, we'll call the tear trough, I do filler, I do a little bit of hyaluronic filler, I've gotten it done. Everyone else has gotten it done. I'm the Kardashians definitely got it done. I've got nothing going on no tear trough so they're definitely filled. And that's how you get rid of that shadow. Easy. The bad that puffiness that's pushing out, that needs to be removed surgically. Not a big deal procedure. But that's the only way to get rid of it. And we do a procedure called a lower blepharoplasty fabulous. Doctors will go in there, take out that little fat pad, close it up, done, done deal. So beautiful procedure for pigment, you can use topical ingredients that literally lightened and get rid of pigment, right so licorice root extract, some people use hydrocodone, some people use Kojic acid, whatever, there's a lot of different ingredients that will literally break up pigment. And then for that translucency, you have to do things that actually thicken the skin and create more collagen. And whether you want to do it in a way that's topical, like you're using peptides and retinoids and things to help stimulate collagen, or you're doing lasers and micro needling and something else to stimulate collagen like a procedure or device. That's the way to do that fix that also will help with some of the tightening and some of the wrinkles and the creepiness because you're stimulating collagen as well. So just like you're just basically improving the type of skin that you have with a whole last bunch of stuff.

Amy:13:38

Yeah, that's really interesting and helpful. I've done various versions of many of those things. I've done micro needling a couple of times, which I love. I'm not sure if it helps under here like a little bit. I've done filler ones but I didn't actually love it because I'll tell you what happened to me if this is weird. So I got filler a couple of years ago in that area because again, it was like dark and not as hollow but just more like that dark look. So I got the filler. And I felt like it made the little puffs that I had underneath my eyes like stick out. So I almost felt like it made it look worse. Although I didn't look as wrinkly I just put the puffiness like I have a picture of it from like, immediately when I got it. It's like it kind of like went out. So I didn't really love it, but I just kind of it looked fine. wasn't great. It wasn't bad. It was just sort of like is what it is but I didn't like how it sort of pumps it out. And then I guess it took about a year and a half two years to like go out of my system but lately so like a month ago I always had for the last couple of months these like dark lines and so I asked my dermatologist and she was like yeah, it's from old filler and it's like casting this like purple whatever so I got it drained and there was actually quite a lot still in there. So once I got it drained it was so interesting because those black lines that were like right here, came out I still have the black on or I mean the dark under here but I don't have that anymore. So it was so interesting. So she was like, you could do filler again, she was like, but it might kind of be the same. So she was telling me about that. Like in the future, she was like, you could do a lower blast, or whatever. And then she also suggested doing that transfer under the tear trough because she said that might be better than doing filler all the time, because it might not like work as well for you. So I always love the questions because I'm like, my husband thinks I'm crazy. So I don't even know what you're talking about. But like I see it every time I look in the mirror, like it's better now that I got it drains, but I still see it. And now I'm like, Oh, now that I got it drained, I can actually see more wrinkles. Like there's never like one. Like it's never like going to even out if I do one thing, the other thing happens. But anyway, I just I wasn't sure if like if you keep doing Miller and things like that, or if it like stretches out your skin, or if it's just better just to do the surgery at once.

Dr. Nazarian:15:51

So it's really interesting to me how many people ask me about the filler, whether it stretches out your skin? No, it doesn't stretch out your skin, you're gonna damage your skin like that you're not going to like the filler is gonna go away and you're like, oh, loose and saggy. Now, if you stripped a balloon too much, absolutely not. You were literally replacing what you had, you were stimulating your own collagen formulation. And you were trying to just sort of give support to the underlying tissue where it used to have that support, you're trying to look like yourself. That's all you're trying to do. So but what does happen as you get older the skin gets so lacks, right? Like people think about anti aging. And all they're thinking about sometimes it's just like, filling, right? But you didn't age by just losing volume, you lot you aged by losing volume. And also losing elasticity like the skin is more lacks, and it's less full, because you've lost a lot of that structure underneath. So when you anti age, you're never going to be happy unless you anti HSM wait. If all you did was fill, you'd look like a big balloon, which is we've seen that by the we've all seen that I know we've seen it it's awful when people look overfilled. And then if all you did was tighten, you would look like you're in a bad facelift, right? Because what they used to do back in the day, they actually tighten it and pull it and sew it back. It's just they're both completely inappropriate if used alone. The right way to do it is a little bit of filler for you church off, it's a little bit of a different story. But you know what I mean, kind of like all over a little bit in the cheeks a little bit the jawline, a little bit in the nasal label, and then a little bit of tightening, which you can do with different lasers. Right. And that's going to help you look like really what you're supposed to look like yourself.

Amy:17:29

Yeah, and it's funny, she was saying that except to do it with a surgery with fat but but use the fat as a filler and then doing laser. And then she said it will look really natural. I don't know if I'm like ready to do that whole thing. I might just try filler again. But do you find that if people have sort of like a ridge or like a little bit of a fat pocket underneath their eyes that when they do filler it like can make it look worse. So or is that just like me being crazy not being crazy

Dr. Nazarian:17:55

at all. First of all, the patient has never generally knows their face really, really, really, really well. Right. So that's really what it comes down to. So when people have both problems, right, meaning you have a ridge and you have a fat pad, the goal is never to put any filler under the fat pad ever. And you never want any filler like around the fat pad where it can kind of push out, what you're trying to do is it's a lot easier if I could show you but imagine this in your face in your head, you really just put the filler only into that deep rich, that's it. And so what you're doing is not touching that pad where you're trying to get that valley below it to be filled in a little bit. So it just masks it in camouflage is it better, right? You know, when you have both problems holding out and that puffiness, you can only do filler for a little bit and you will lose the battle eventually and have to get the bluff. Because ultimately that fat pad continues to push out, you can't keep putting tons of filler in there, right to your point, you only get to try you have that particular and this is why you have to always be evaluated to see if you're a good candidate for something or not. But you can only put a little bit of filler in there to a certain point and then at some point that that that peg gets a little bit too big, you have to say you know what, I can't keep chasing it. Now, you got to have that fat pad taken out as you as it continues to grow up. But you know, I see people with both often I tell them, we can do a little bit but you got to stay far away from that fat pad literally just into that little hollow in that valley. And the goal is not to change the fat pad, but to just blend it into the rest of the face nicely. That's what you're trying to do.

Amy:19:37

And you have to go to someone good because I think that I've only done it once and the first person I went to she was okay. I think I would go to this new person I'm seeing because I think she would be more. I think she would be more like you like really gentle with it because I feel like I could see it a little bit. And I felt like maybe she just put too much in or like didn't do it in the way that's more natural because I felt like when I smiled you could see it a little bit or at least I could Yeah little bit but so interesting like slime could ask you to bore everybody else. But I think that's why my doctor was like, Yeah, at the end of the day, you're gonna want to get this. Like, it's not like you need it right this second, but I know it bothers you if you want to, like just nip it in the bud. She's like, just do that. Because that's eventually what people that have that issue do so yeah.

Dr. Nazarian:20:24

So funny though, to two patients that I see has like this one thing that they just wish they could change about themselves that I'm going to tell you right now is like, a one on a scale of one to 10 You know, in terms of like, really how bad it is, like I have a patient that I saw, just like maybe an hour ago, two hours ago, I guess now. And like, she's been chasing her ugly neck and I put this in quotes because she's like, the most beautiful for like, at least like eight years now. Okay. And she there's nothing wrong with that. But she feels like it's just aging her and it's sagging, and she feels like it's it's a fat pad and whatever it is. And I'm telling you, she has a beautiful neck. But we have spent an awful lot of time trying to tweak it and make it how she feels is perfect. So she's not imagining what she's seeing. It's there. I get it, you know, alright, it's a little lacks. Okay, I see the wrinkle. Alright, I feel a little bit of that fat pad. But really, it's like, it's like her thing. You know what I mean?

Amy:21:19

And like, we're own harshest critic. Right. And that's one thing that

Dr. Nazarian:21:23

we don't know what it is for, you know, for you, Katie. I mean, I guess for Amy, it's gonna be the eyes. But like everyone has this like thing on their body, you know that they just hate and obsess over and you got to remember to your point. I mean, we are definitely our own worst critic. There's no way anybody else in your life notices what you're noticing to the degree that you notice.

Katie:21:46

My puffy face I get the puppy the puppy space deal.

Amy:21:57

Katie was so funny the other day she says to me when she's traveling, she got a really bad headache. And she's like, look at this picture. Doesn't it look like I have? Like I can see the headache. like, Y'all know what I'm talking about. But I gotta go. So there's like so many more things. The last thing I want to ask you about because I think you said you do body sculpting stuff. Yes, that's right. I've been reading about something called velis shape and like, I don't know if the all of these things are all the same. What is like the best one if you want to, you know, there's two things I think there's like our listeners, I'm sure you want to know about these two things like one sort of like the fat removal and then to cellulite.

Dr. Nazarian:22:38

Okay, boy, fat removal and cellulite. Alright, fine. So fat removal can be done surgically, which we know is like liposuction, right, or can be done with lasers. And there are different ways to do with lasers. Some lasers use heat, right like radiofrequency heat, I actually don't do that I do freezing. I do cool sculpting, a lot of cool sculpting. And I have to tell you, I love it. Love it, they had a sort of a second generation version that came out not that long ago. And that's when I started doing it for myself, obviously, but also for my patients. And what it does is it you know, brings the temperature of the fat down to a level where it crystallizes. And we know that that will crystallize at a different temperature than like muscle or skin or other parts of the body or different tissues of the body I should say. And when it's crystallized, which takes generally about 30 to 40 minutes depending on what area you're doing. You massage out those crystals and those crystals break your body comes and they clear it it destroys the fat cell destroys it. And so you have less fat cells there so you will not be able to accumulate as much fat in that area and it really does change or shape. So that is your new shape. At that weight, you can still gain weight, you can still put on weight and the weight will distribute however it wants to distribute a little more fairly. If you're someone who was treating your belly because you had all this fat deposited in the belly, you're not going to pause it the same way but you could still gain weight and you could still gain weight in your belly if you gained enough weight. So I you know I call sculpted and then let's say eight which is a true story and I had kids which is also true story and gained weight and then when you lose the weight I'll get back to my CoolSculpting body when I get back to that same weight but you know I had issues I didn't I didn't want my middle eastern right so I didn't like my hair shape I want like Kendall Jenner legs who doesn't so I wanted my thigh straighter and all I don't want my inner thighs touching whatever all the garbage we have in our heads that what we have to look like but you could do the chin you could do the arms you can do a lot of areas takes a few weeks to see the improvement I recommend everyone does it twice to the same area that to me is considered a true treatment. You do it once you get a lot of complainers you know once a year you sit there and show the before and after seeing you look different see before so yeah I hate that. I hate that. Once you've done it twice. I don't have to show you the before and afters anymore. It's like we're done. You know, like, I'm happy. That makes me happy makes them happy. So I tell everyone twice. You don't have to do it twice because you had a dramatic result after one great good for you. It happens fine. But you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it the right way. You know? Because I do hear a lot of people that say, Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I tried it a couple years ago, but I've actually never say never had like one maybe but she also gained weight. So I wasn't really sure but, you know, it's it's a very dependable way to get rid of those fat cells. Cellulite is a little different. And you're asking me about it at the right time because we do kind of have a little bit of a game changer that came out a few months ago called quot Q w Oh, that's actually an injectable that is used to break up those bands that pull down under the skin and create that like wrinkling. An orange peel luck of cellulite comes a little bit pain comes a little bit of bruising, but is super promising, like super promising. Really now,

Amy:26:07

is it permanent? Or is it something well, you're doing so far,

Dr. Nazarian:26:10

they're seeing some long term, improve improvement. I mean, you're maintaining these results, you know, like, I think up to a year out, and they're still looking. So I think it's, it looks really, really promising. I don't do it yet. I'm sort of sitting on the sidelines a little bit like, had patience to do it, you know, learning about it, getting trained on it, I kind of want to see some people roll out a little bit longer, which is generally how I work with this stuff. But I've had a lot of colleagues that have been using it now for long enough that, you know, I'm I'm happy to support that and recommend that. So

Amy:26:50

that's awesome. I want to look into that because that's another thing I'm always looking for treatments on because that's why I was researching this Bella shape, which I've seen, like, here and there written up in articles and it's specifically for cellulite as well. I don't know if it does just cellulite and or if it does cellulite and like sculpting I'm not sure I don't know too much about it. But I'm going to look into this quote too, because like that thigh area,

Dr. Nazarian:27:12

I gotta tell you, one of my co workers, you know, she was really eager to have it done last month. And I wasn't, wasn't ready to be the one to do it for her yet. And so we had her go to one of my colleagues and have, you know, have her get it done. And aside from some pretty hefty bruising, which is part of the deal. She's actually looking really good. You know, I tried a bunch of other stuff to get rid of that for her over the past couple years. And I wasn't having much success. And this you know, this injection seems to be, and we've been hearing about it for a while now. So I kind of knew it was gonna be a little bit a game changer. But to actually see it in action on people that I know is really exciting.

Katie:27:49

Yeah, that's exciting. That's cool. And

Amy:27:51

there's no downtime. I mean, so there's bruising, obviously, but is there like, is it like painful, it's

Dr. Nazarian:27:57

a little, you know, your muscles feel pretty sore sometimes afterwards, like you got a little like a, like a punch in the leg. And the bruising can be pretty substantial. So sometimes little bit of swelling that comes along with that. So it's not something I would do during bikini season. But you want to wait until the fall winter and

Amy:28:15

winter time activity.

Dr. Nazarian:28:16

Ugly. Exactly.

Amy:28:17

All right. I'm all about it. Okay, so we could literally talk to you forever. So like, we probably need a part two, we might be cool. I

Katie:28:24

think we need to,

Amy:28:25

we should probably start getting into our rap session.

Katie:28:27

All right. So let's do our rap session. So Dr. Nazarian, you've given us so many great tips. But what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Dr. Nazarian:28:37

Oh, my favorite wellness or beauty hack? Just streamline it. Like just you know, my hack is just getting everything into what you're already doing now and just tweak it like, I drink my antioxidant green tea at night because I was going to drink tea anyway. So why don't I drink something that has like tons of antioxidants, it makes my life more easy and helps me in the long run, right? Like when I do my, like I said my stuff in the morning, it's all infused into that one product, I'm not to think about it. Everything that I do is just a part of my day. And it doesn't feel like a chore and it's sort of like, hidden and all the other stuff. And so I just think if you can do that with everything, your diet, your skincare products, you know, your walk to work, whatever it is you just have it streamlined to something where it was all thought out beforehand. And it's good for you, you know, over the course of a lifetime, oh my god. Imagine the cumulative effect of something like that. These little tiny changes add up so much at the end of decades and decades and decades. Just remember that it's gonna happen. It's science, it's happening. You're not gonna get when the body doesn't respond to this kind of thing. You're gonna reap the benefits to have patience with it. And just trust the science just sneaking into your day. And I promise you you're good. it'd be so happy later in life.

Katie:30:02

Yeah, I love that streamlining, simplifying, just kind of making it all a little easier. Right?

Amy:30:09

Exactly. Okay, so this is what we call our five minute flow. So here's the scenario. You just got out of the shower and dried off whoever just alerted you there five minutes away. Like what is your quick beauty routine to like, what are your holy girls would you just put on to get out of the house on time and get into that? Uber? This isn't a morning this is at night. This could be any time you choose, but it's like what's that quick thing that you have to like? You just you got five minutes you got to just throw it on and go obviously we know sunscreen. What else? No. Could be body could be face.

Dr. Nazarian:30:42

Yeah. Eyelash Curler. There you go. Oh, that's good one. That's, that is you know, I put on a fancy shmancy watch. I put on you know, I take my little eyelash curler and I clamp it. And then I'm out the door. You know, I don't I don't do a lot of bling. I don't do a lot of anything. I just like you know, I work so hard on my face all the time. Your skin's

Amy:31:04

Perfect.

Dr. Nazarian:31:06

Perfect, whatever it is what it is. Thank you. But the point is, I don't have to think about it on the daily because I already put in the time. So when I jump out of that shower, a little awkward for maybe to the lips, a little clamp on my lashes. A little watch on my wrist.

Katie:31:19

I'm out the door. Nice. Yeah. Well that we love the article friend.

Amy:31:25

Yeah. And then how do you how do you maintain your daily nirvana? Because you are a busy doctor? You've got three young children, your wife? I mean, how do you kind of keep that daily peace? Well, any any anything, it

Dr. Nazarian:31:38

should be honest with you, it changes depending on my stage in life, I have realized what I could have done a few years ago with maybe even one kid, you know, maybe what I could have done with even two kids. I can't do with three and a husband Right? Like just what I did as a single girl to like really get my calm with it was go for a run or do whatever. Sometimes it just can't happen. Now the only thing that happens daily now with three kids is a shower. Right? Let me tell you, my shower. You know, even though it's not very long, is like my Nirvana it is my happy place I find water always has the ability to just calm and heal and recenter and so I take this shower, I enjoy the water coming, you know, onto my face onto my body. And I have my little products there that I use where I feel like I'm just self it doesn't feel like a chore. Maybe showering is a chore for some people. It doesn't ever feel like a chore to me. You know, I just enjoy that feeling of just like starting fresh. And that's it that's like today now like Rachel in this area now in life at this age. That is my nirvana. I sort of hope in a few years that maybe it changes and it's something else like getting rid of lighting a candle or doing my sage but right now it's just it doesn't shower.

Amy:32:57

Well that's very accessible.

Katie:32:59

And it's you know, it actually triggers your parasympathetic nervous system a nice like long peaceful shower. I mean, it's really it's a very like restful rejuvenating thing I do that to actually come

Dr. Nazarian:33:10

Yeah, yeah. But you're either gonna be that or it's gonna be me attacking myself with a laser and needles which happens in the office down masochistic, so I'm gonna go with a shower. Nice.

Amy:33:25

I love it. So we've kept you like forever but we're just two quick things before we wrap up so Katie so we typically do like a quick what we're loving product review at the end of the episode so Katie has something to share with us and then I have a closing mantra. Yeah, so

Katie:33:39

I am excited. Hey, what

Amy:33:40

do you have a very good product review

Katie:33:42

I'm doing it this time. Usually Amy does it but I found these two new products that I'm obsessed with. It's the Charlotte Tilbury supermodel eyebrow kit. I have like very very sparse eyebrows and I always have to fill them in and it's I've always had a really hard time finding the right product to do it with but these are amazing. The reason why I love it. The tip of the pencil is like angle and very thin and it's it's made from Konoba wax. I think I'm saying that right so it comes on like very, very feather fine. It literally looks like you're putting like another eyebrow Heron and other eyebrow hair and I mean it's really it's just the way that it goes in is so so smooth. This is called the brow lift pencil. It's $25 it comes in eight shades, smudge proof, humidity proof, it's great. And then I finish it with the brow fix sculpting gel and this is $23 and this is a 24 hour lasting clear brow gel that will condition your eyebrows it sets it and it's invisible. It doesn't like flake or anything. When I'm like you know not necessarily going out or just kind of want a casual look I'll go without this but if I really wanted to set and check kind of like pop I added the bra effect so I am absolutely obsessed obsessed with it. It's a really, really good one. You know the whole like, like thick, very full eyebrow that all the supermodels have right now like that's,

Amy:35:09

I love it. Yeah, I love that. So give it to me. Yeah. So you can so it looks so I bought that I haven't used it yet because I wanted to hear Can you talk about it so you just like kind of go against your eyebrow and it kind of just yes it in and you just do

Katie:35:21

like, like roll it up the littlest bit and then you just kind of go like, where where you're sparse in. And then I noticed that actually, if I do it with my left hand on my right eyebrow, it doesn't look right. I have to like switch hands. And because you have to go in the direction of the browser. That's, that's the trick. So and then it has this little while your brows look amazing. So little brush on the end where

Amy:35:44

I'm gonna, I'm gonna try that. It's a good one.

Katie:35:48

What's your mantra? Amen. Amen. We need a good one. You have one for us.

Amy:35:51

Yes. So to close out. And before we close out, just want to say thank you so much, Dr. Nazarian, for giving us so much time, we definitely want to have you back because we have like a million more questions. But we'd love, love, love, love all the information you gave us. I think it'll be so helpful to our listeners. And it was definitely helpful for us. So we really appreciate your time and your energy, we just your whole lighting.

Dr. Nazarian:36:12

You guys are so sweet. It's been such a joy to be on and so much fun talking about everything and love to come back. I think that's the one thing about dermatology, a little bit of a black hole is always something that you want to talk about. There's always more to know. So thank you so much. Yeah, it's been a blast.

Amy:36:27

Oh, thank you. Great. So I'm going to ends with something because we've been talking about, you know, our skin and all the things that we want to fix. And at the end of the day, here's a mantra that I think I need to tell myself and we probably all do, which is become so confident in who you are that no one's opinion, rejection or behavior can rock you. So it's like, don't listen to what anybody else is saying. And even sometimes what you're saying to yourself because I was thinking about it, I'm complaining about this and that but at the end of the day, if you're confident and you like feel good in your skin, nothing else matters. So I think it's really important to remind ourselves and our audience that at the end of the day, you just got to feel good. You got to feel good about yourself. So

Dr. Nazarian:37:08

true. Thank you for that reminder, Amy.

Amy:37:12

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 22 - 8 Hot Topics in Skin Right Now with Board Certified NYC Dermatologist Dr.Rachel Nazarian - Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 22.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Welcome to Nirvana sisters Nirvana sisters family. We are so excited to have Dr. Rachel Nazarian with us today. Welcome Dr. Nazarian. We have been wanting to have an amazing dermatologist on the show for a long time. So we're so happy that we got in touch with you to be able to spend time with us today and ask all of our crazy questions to you. So welcome to the show. A little background on Dr. Nazarian is she is a board certified dermatologist seeing patients in New York City she practices various aspects of dermatology including cosmetic treatments, lasers and injectables skin cancer screenings, general dermatology, dermatologic surgery and body contouring Dr. Nazarian has written many published articles in medical journals as well as widely respected dermatology textbooks such as treatment of skin disease and bukas emergencies in dermatology. Hopefully, I said that, right. You are a faculty member at Mount Sinai Medical Center's Department of Dermatology and you are written up in tons of different magazines and articles I've seen you quoted in media print TV, I saw you recently in an article and well and good and Vogue, and Harper's Bazaar, and new beauty and Pop Sugar, and so many more. So thank you for being on the show. Very excited to have one introduction and

Dr. Nazarian: 1:54

an intro. Yeah, I was like listening to God, that's why I'm tired. What would I what have I been doing? But you know what, it's it's all so much fun. And I love what I do. And I love talking about what I do. So I'm happy to go through the whole spiel, whatever you want to talk about, please ask me, it's what I do all day long with my patients. And honestly, it very, very, very rarely gets old. That's the great thing about this specialty. There's always new stuff coming out and new things to talk about. And it's just so exciting and fun.

Amy: 2:22

That's so awesome. Well, we can't wait to get into it. But before we do, we want to take a step back and do our nirvana of the week, which is really just when we talk about something positive, something great that brought us joy over the last week that just kind of made us take a step back because we're all so busy and crazy, especially after everything is sort of open now and everyone got back to running around. It's like good to take that step back and think about something little or big that give us joy. So I'll let Katie do her Nirvana, and then I'll know Thanks,

Katie: 2:49

Amy. Well, thank you Dr. Nazarian. For being here. We're really excited. So we appreciate it. But my weekly Nirvana I would say this week happened yesterday. We, for many reasons, my family and I, we haven't had much time to really enjoy the summer yet. So yesterday, we had like our first family fun summer day, we were at the pool all day and the kids were swimming for I think, honestly, eight hours. And don't worry we had on SVF and a lot of it, but it was it was great. It was just a lot of fun. Just to like you know, not think about anything besides fun. We really needed it. So that so that was that was mine. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 3:26

That's good. Oh, I thought you were gonna say putting contract on your house. But I guess that's another episode. We'll have to hear about that. I know. It's been a journey for you. So I have to so my kids actually left her sleepaway camp yesterday, so or not yesterday. What's today? Yeah, they love Saturday. And so that was a little bit bittersweet. I was so happy for them. But also it was kind of this weird feeling. But now we're kind of getting back into the swing and they're having a blast. So that's good. But I guess before they left, we did a night we went to the pool. And it was sort of during that golden hour where the weather's just perfect. And it wasn't planned. We just sort of went last minute and they were swimming and we just like ate there. But not even at a table just at our beach chairs. And it was just one of those casual nights. But one of those that you sort of are like, I'm so appreciative of like my sweet family. It was just a really great moment before they left and then another little one last night, all the fireflies are starting to come out in my neighborhood. So I went outside last night to do something and they just like literally got stopped because I looked up at the trees and they were so dark. But there were all these fireflies like lighting up and it was so beautiful. And all of our cicadas are now gone. So that was great. So that was just like a little spark of Nirvana that happened last night. What about you doctrine is their

Dr. Nazarian: 4:43

mind is really interesting. So the last couple of weeks, I've been thinking he's from Miami, my husband and I've been saying to him, God, you know what movie I want to watch. I want to watch the birdcage. You know, it takes place in South Beach, right? I only want to watch the bird cage. I just really feel like I haven't seen it in years. You know, I've forgotten most of what it's about. But remember the basic premise and And I was flipping through a television, I had a rough day flipping through the TV. And miraculously, it just happened to be on and just happened to have just started like I was like maybe 30 minutes, 30 seconds and a minute in and I called my husband we sat down we watch this movie that had been like begging the universe verse For for weeks now. I have never laughed this hard. I have seen this movie like, years ago, right. But for whatever reason, it was like so appropriate for today for like here and now in the world, politically, whatever. It it just made I think I had like stomach pains from laughing so hard at Robin Williams and like this whole brilliant cast. But I was so grateful for these two hours where I was just absorbed in this movie, and just loving life and laughing at it and just having a really good time. It was like the most therapeutic two hours I've had in a very, very long time. That sounds so good.

Amy: 5:50

Oh, I love Yeah, that's so great. I gotta watch that again. I haven't seen that in years. And that's so cool. I love that that manifested for you and that you enjoyed it. That's so great. Yeah, that's so great. Good. I love it. Okay, so we're gonna get into some quick fire questions before we before we get into it. So tell us a little bit about your background and how long you've been practicing dermatology and what your specialty is sure.

Dr. Nazarian: 6:14

So you kind of touched on it a little bit. I do medical and cosmetic and surgical dermatology. So basically, I do the basic stuff. You know, the skin checks, looking at moles trying to find skin cancers, acne, psoriasis, eczema, all the skin diseases we are trained to do as dermatologist but in medical school, we have MDs, we are physicians, so medicine first. And then of course, you know, you when you have healthy skin, you have beautiful skin. So the cosmetic aspect is so intertwined. And these, you know, these days, I do an awful lot of cosmetics too. And that includes lasers and lights and injectables like the different toxins and fillers, and then surgical. So if I find a skin cancer, we want to take those skin cancers out so we do surgeries to remove them. Sometimes people have things like cysts and little tumors like like pomos, we take those out as well. And it makes me feel like I am a tiny little bit like the rest of my family, which is made up of all surgeons, cardiac surgeons, bariatric surgeons, orthopedic surgeons. And so a little bit of my day is basically dedicated to being my version of a surgeon to dermatologic surgeon, so I enjoy all of it. And and like I said, I feel like every year there's something new that comes out and something else that I have to learn. And so that's a part of my job, too, is just keeping up to date with what's happening in medicine.

Katie: 7:38

Nice. And how long have you been practicing?

Dr. Nazarian: 7:41

Well, a little shy of a decade formally, but actually I was involved in dermatology since I was about 19. I was working in dermatology offices working in the lab grossing slides, Gaussian slides, for people that don't know is when you do a biopsy, and you take that little specimen of tissue, like a mole or whatever else you're looking to examine. It actually has to be processed soy processing, Matt, where I grew up in, outside of Dallas, Texas, and then spent summers also working with dermatologists did a little bit of research into amount of pathology and dermatology. So really, I feel like I've been doing this since I was 19. Because I started that when I was 19. And I still have so much more to learn, which tells you a lot about what's going on in dermatology.

Amy: 8:20

Yeah, it seems like there's always something new every time you turn around. But you don't always know. You know if it's real or not, because there's just so much out there, right?

Dr. Nazarian: 8:28

There is so much out there. Once in a while I'll see an ad or I'll read something in a magazine or see something online. And it's about this like miracle product or this like miracle ingredient, you know, that I've like never heard of. And you have to check yourself a little bit. Because you think how can I how can I not? You know, maybe I do maybe I don't know, maybe I'm not keeping up with it well enough or fast enough. And so if you look in and I will tell you, you know, 99% of the time, it's an awful lot of marketing gimmicks and new hype and clickbait that's out there, which makes me feel so bad for the consumer. Because the uneducated consumer, yeah, frankly, the consumer that's trying to educate themselves can be misled so easily for marketing. And you could walk into a big box beauty store. And even as a dermatologist I go in and I'm kind of wooed by these products, because they're just packaged so beautifully. They promise so much. And I have to remind myself, we just can't look at the label and trust the science. This is not you know, this is not what they're saying it is. But God the urges so strong because they do such a good job of presenting it to the consumer. Yeah, absolutely.

Amy: 9:37

Yeah, we have so many questions about those sorts of things as we get into this.

Katie: 9:41

So let's start off right away then let's get right into it. It's summer. We're right in the middle of it. S P F, tell us why is it important but not only in the summer? I assume you have your patients use it year round. And what's what's the reason for that?

Dr. Nazarian: 9:59

Well, can you say Question. You know, people when they think of sunscreen, they think of just sun. And when they think of sun, they think of summer. And so they assume they don't have to work the rest of the year. The reason that that is really a dangerous way to go through a year is that even though you're not getting as much sun, this is or is not as warm, I should say, this is not a temperature issue, this is a radiation issue. And radiation is present to some degree year round. And when it comes to sun damage, and skin damage, it's cumulative. So even if you're getting a minute a day, or 30 seconds a day, at the end of the year, you're getting hours and hours of exposure to radiation. That is why people look at when they're at, it's because they have 80 years of sun. And so if you can only protect yourself half the year, you're frankly still getting enough radiation that it's going to add up at some point, but you're still leaving yourself vulnerable to free radical damage, maybe not a sunburn, but free radical damage and skin cancer the rest of the year. Also, you know, these days, when people are indoors, they sometimes neglect to put on their sunscreen. And that's also a bad way to go through life. Because although UV B is kind of what people usually think about when they think about protecting themselves from the sun, because that's what prevents the sunburn. UVA actually travels through light and glass. So if you're working in an office space that has windows, you're still getting radiation through. And if the idea of getting a skin cancer doesn't scare you enough, let me remind you UVA is actually what ages you. So that's what's going to give you those wrinkles and those sunspots and those large pores. So for a multitude of reasons, you really need to put that sunscreen as a part of your daily regimen just like brushing your teeth would be just like washing and moisturizing would be so multitask. Right? So rather than have to think about like 10 different things to put on. Just make sure your sunscreen your moisturizer or one or for me, your sunscreen, your moisturizer, your anti aging cream, orange one. And that way, you're always going to feel naked without it I am uncomfortable when I leave the house without protection. So don't think about it too much. Just kind of sneak it into your regimen that will make it easier even if you have a simple regimen. It's got to have SPF in there.

Katie: 12:12

What do you say to people that say, Well, it's a cloudy day, it's raining? I don't see the sun? Do I still need it?

Dr. Nazarian: 12:17

Everybody knows the story of somebody who was outdoors all day, and it wasn't Sunny, and they just didn't put on sunscreen. I mean, how many times have you heard that I heard all day long, right? And they got burned, they didn't realize they got burned. Radiation goes through clouds. So don't be fooled by the temperature or what it looks like just protect yourself. And also sun damage comes in different forms. People are looking for that burn. But some people actually have very low, like many people actually have low levels of sun allergy. So maybe they're not burning, but they just feel a little dry and itchy from the radiation emits radiation, right? So people get when they have breast cancer, it's radiation is the same thing. So you know, look for those subtle signs that you're not doing your skin any favors, that you're not doing a good enough job protecting your skin, it'll it'll remind you. So I think the more you now the more cautious you'll be our job is to educate people. But eventually, maybe we will use your first little wrinkle. That's usually when it starts when you start to notice your ports get a little big, maybe that's when it starts. But there's something that will motivate you, it tends to be more cosmetic than medical and that's fine. I'll use whatever motivation I can. But you will be motivated to put on your sunscreen daily, cloudy or not.

Amy: 13:28

Yeah, and I can relate to that big time because I got my first basil. So when I was like, young, like 30, or something I remember was like, a couple years after I got married, and I was freaking out and I've gotten like 10 Since I mean I've had them everywhere. So ever since my first basal cell, Game Changer sunscreen every day I sit in the shade. Katie knows I'm like a grandma, I will not be in the shade. And I will not be in the sun in the sun always a hat. I'm like, so paranoid about it. Because I've had so many. I don't know, from being fair being in the sun genetics. I mean, my dad is actually dark complected. But he's gotten a bunch of basal cells too. But yeah, so I'm super aware of it. But I feel like even though it's talked about so much still, most people are not thinking about it as much. And it's interesting that you say it's radiation, I never really think of it that way. Just think of it as like bright light and heat, but not the radiation part, which makes you feel like wow, I really need to put it on. So do you recommend putting on SPF before everything else or after because I never know.

Dr. Nazarian: 14:28

That's because it's different depending on what you're using. I think this is a part of the problem too is that there's different ways to protect yourself from the sun. And there's different ingredients and there's different vehicles that they come in meaning. So a vehicle would be like a cream versus a lotion versus a serum versus a spray versus an oil, right. There's just so many different forms of them, and that determines its place in your regimen. Most sunscreens would go on last like let's say you're gonna wash your face, you're gonna pat you know Pat dry, you're gonna moisture eyes, you would put on your sunscreen. And the only thing that would go on after that is maybe a little bit of makeup. That's how most of them work. But you know, there's powder form that you would also just do last even after you do makeup, you would want that to sit on top, the big classifications for sunscreen come in mineral or physical versus chemical write chemical needs to be absorbed into the skin. And it works by changing that radiation into a different form typically heat versus a physical or mineral which acts by shield, you know, it's basically a physical blockers where it gets its name from and reflects the radiation away from your face. They work in different ways. They are both wonderful. But also depending on which one of those you're using, it may change how you apply it. I say when in doubt, just, you know, put it on after your moisturizer and you should be just fine.

Katie: 15:51

Do you have a favorite sunscreen? Okay, that you Yeah, what's your what do you what's your go to?

Dr. Nazarian: 15:56

So for me, I change every few years, you know, I've evolved. So I had to do a starter sunscreen, as I call it, which is just like super lightweight and feels like absolutely nothing and disappears and don't even know you're wearing it. And that's how I started because as somebody who doesn't really wear makeup, I didn't like the feel of anything on my face. I hated it. And so that was Elta MD UV Clear which is like a cult favorite in the dermatology world. Okay, super easy, simpler. As I got older, it actually wasn't motivating enough. Even for me as a dermatologist to just have sunscreen. I just didn't feel like I wanted to put it on during the day. And so I switched to something that is made by a brand called revision. It's revision true physical. I love this. I love this for a number of reasons. One is because actually the base is an anti aging cream that always motivates me to put it on. It has a high SPF and it's a little bit tinted. So it goes on kind of like this beautiful sheer tent, it covers everything, I don't have to do anything else. I put on a vitamin Sam, I put on my sunscreen, I'm out the door, and it is everything in one, I'm like a mama of three, I don't have time to do anything. So it goes on about the door. I'm super, super happy. What I recommend for my patients, it really depends on what they want. I don't think patients realize that this the sunscreen game has evolved so much that there's really cosmetically elegant options out there for everything, whatever you want, you can tell me whatever you want, I will find you essentially that is curated for those issues, redness, dryness, anti aging, wrinkles, you know, discoloration, you want something lightweight, do you want something that has little dewy look, you want something matte, whatever you want, you tell me I know what's out there, I will, you know, point you into the right direction. And I will help you find something you are obsessed with it because that's my goal, I want you to be really motivated to do it. And if anti aging motivates you, which it generally does, this way, you know, for men, if super lightweight, and pretend it's not even they're motivated to let you go. So that's where I am now your physical. That's amazing.

Katie: 18:03

Yeah,

Amy: 18:03

I love that I'm gonna have to follow up with you to get some of those recommendations. And we'll put it in our social media feed for our listeners, because that's such a I never thought about it that way because there's certain ones that I like and certain ones Katie likes, but I never thought about it based on like, if you're dry or for this, you just kind of grabbed the one that feels the best. But it's actually interesting to think about I'm gonna have to check out.

Katie: 18:23

I didn't even know that was off good to know, had sunscreens for XYZ, you know, I just thought it was like one thing kind of across the board. So yeah, that is great to know. Tell us a little bit about Helio care and how does it fit into your daily skincare regimen.

Dr. Nazarian: 18:41

So Helio care is something that I caught on to many years ago. It is a supplement, it can turn it contains Fern extract. This is like a fern that comes out of Costa Rica. And it is really exclusively grown and processed by this company. It's actually patented with this firm block technology, right, and I'll tell you why that's important too. But the purpose of this is to make you really a little bit less sensitive to sunlight. So I used to give it to patients that would get like sun allergies in which a lot or had some sensitive conditions like lupus or melasma, which is discoloration you get in the sun. And it was just part of my treatment regimen. It's actually been around for a very long time published immensely in the medical journals. Most dermatologists know about it, but it also helps neutralize free radical damage because it's just filled with antioxidants, right? And so when you're thinking about your skin aging, that you always think about ultraviolet radiation, but this is completely flawed thinking because we know that your skin will age worse in a city environment than it would in a country environment right. Just due to other free radical damaging agents, whether it's pollution and smoking and all this other stuff like visible light all those things ages. It just colors our skin then it breaks down on collagen, it breaks down the elastin. And it just makes us look saggy and baggy and old with time. And so you actually need more than just sunscreen to protect your skin from aging. Right sunscreen protects us from sun. But like I said, there's so many other things that will cause oxidative stress and free radical damage. So I started taking Helio care for that purpose. I mean, I consider it something that kind of really helps my sunscreen in some way, but also protects me against all the other aspects of what I consider to be aging factors in the environment. And I mean, I just can't speak highly enough about it. You know, I just started working with this company this past year. And, you know, I still don't know why it's not like insanely popular. I don't know, I don't know what it is. You know, I've spoken to a lot of dermatologist about it. We're like, is it the packaging? I guess it's kind of boring. You know, I don't know what it is. But boy, my whole family is on it. My husband's on it. I have like, literally, this is my desk or sitting at the office. It's sitting right here, just in case I actually forget it before I leave the house. I have it here.

Amy: 21:07

Do you just take one a day,

Dr. Nazarian: 21:09

I mean, you actually can take to what I normally do is I'll take one and then if I plan on being out again during the day, like if I'm walking around on the weekends, I'll take another one about an hour later on vacation, I definitely will take two if I'm like, pulled someplace on and I get like forced to go to the beach, I'll always have it there. And then I just take one a day normally when we know before I come to the office, like when I'm dropping the kids off at school, there's like a little bit of a walk there as well. And so now it's just part of my daily routine.

Amy: 21:38

So the recommendation would be to use Helio care, and obviously your SPF. So it's like the internal and the external in a way. And with something like that help with basal cells, like would it be beneficial to take that if you're prone to getting basal cells like I am? Yeah,

Dr. Nazarian: 21:55

so that's a great question. I mean, the closest I can say is free radical damage can cause skin cancers. Here, the oak hair helps neutralize free radical damage. Does that make sense? So in my mind, yeah. Right. So in other words, right. I mean, not only can I not hurt, I do feel like it helps a lot. There's another version of Helio care actually, that contains a form of vitamin B called niacin amide. That actually, we have many studies in the medical literature that shows that does help prevent against skin cancers. And so if I have a patient that is prone and has many skin cancers in the past, or I think has a higher risk of building skin cancers, I'll actually recommend that for them. They have another version called Heliocare Ultra that has extra antioxidants in it, that's really, in some ways, I think of it more as like a anti aging booster supplement. If you think about supplements, though, it's really important to remember that it's not FDA regulated, right? This is not considered like a medication, it's considered an extract a supplement. And so any company can just like, say they're doing the same thing and get that plant and kind of grind it up. But you can't do that when it comes to your own health. So I don't like doing random knock offs, or whatever it is because I don't even know what part of the plant they're using. Right? Like the whole plant doesn't have the same level of actives. The leaves have the important part, that's really what protects it from the sun. And Costa Rica is what allows this plant to stay so viable in really difficult, arid, dry conditions sometimes, right, that's what makes it stay so healthy and strong. If you're gonna grind up the root and put it in a pill, not gonna do the same thing. So I'm really adamant with my patients that, you know, we don't experiment when it comes to extracts and supplements. I only want the stuff that's been studied, I only want the thing that's in the medical journal. So you know, that's that's Helio care. And you know, just one other thing you can do you eat healthy too, you want the right antioxidants in your diet, you want the right anti inflammatory things in your diet, you're going to know if you're treating your body poorly, and your skin is going to show if you're treating it really well and that means from the outside and also means from the inside.

Katie: 24:08

It's so true because I have definitely been not doing my best lately with my diet stress eating a little bit and I can see it I see it like all over my face. I see it in like the little dehydration wrinkles that sometimes I haven't sometimes I don't have and like you know, when your face is like inflamed or so I really can't see it in your face, and then you break out more. And all of that can be linked right back to everything you're consuming. Right?

Dr. Nazarian: 24:35

Absolutely. The skin shows everything. I mean, it really is just a reflection of what's happening on the inside, how you're feeling and how you're treating yourself. Whether you're sleeping, whether you have a good diet, whether you're getting enough water, whether you're giving it the right tools to defend itself, which is a huge part of it. I mean, if you're just going to go eat whenever you wanted and then go to sleep and you never brushed your teeth. Think about what happened. to your teeth, they would literally degrade with cavities, right? You would lose them. Your skin requires the same amount of self care and maintenance otherwise, if you're not giving it what it needs to protect itself, it falls apart. And you know that because when you look at beautiful skin, it looks so healthy, it like glows, doesn't it? And when you're looking at somebody who doesn't take care of themselves, you can see it in their face. There's nobody that doesn't take care of themselves that has this like gorgeous, you know, glowy skin. There's just some things you can't fake. Right? I love that.

Amy: 25:30

Yeah, I totally agree. And I'm so it's like, the older I get, the more I'm noticing people's skin and like obsessed with getting my skin to be clear and even. And that kind of moves on to the next thing we wanted to talk to you about is how to even out skin tone because there's all this talk about Retton on retinoids, and Trent Nolan and all this stuff. And can you break down for us like, what it is the difference is what we should and shouldn't do. I started experimenting with a retinoid but like I don't really know much about it. I just feel like there's so much information, it's hard to know what it is and what it's for and all of that if you could just give us the one on one on that we'd love it. This is the

Dr. Nazarian: 26:10

one of the simplest part of the anti aging regimen is the retinoid. Okay? So retinoids are vitamin A derivatives, that's all they are vitamin A derivatives. And we know that this class of vitamin A derivatives can stimulate collagen, and stimulate cell turnover and help give you fresh, healthy, new skin. So if you think about it, old skin is kind of like damaged skin, new skin is healthy and youthful looking. And so if you can get that cell to turnover faster, create new skin cells stimulate more collagen, replace the old tissue, it's going to look beautiful, and youthful and young, right? Full of bounce less wrinkles, smaller pores, smooth, even off the tone, because you're getting rid of the old skin cells. That's your retinoid. That's just a that is a just umbrella term for everything else that we're going to talk about right now. Got it, Retinol is an active form that you can get over the counter. So you'll find a lot of products at your local drugstore will contain retinol, which is also also a vitamin A derivative, we're still talking about the same class, but has to be converted to retinoic acid in the skin after it's been absorbed. So it's weaker, it takes longer to get to the active form. It's more gentle, right, it's not going to dry you as much. But you're also not going to see the improvement as quickly you will see improvement. It's not that is not going to work, it will work. But because it's inactive, and it's a couple steps away and that that sort of pathway. It's just you know, it's not as dramatic sometimes, that's all Trent know in which you also mentioned, Trent Nolan is actually a prescription retinoid that is closer to the active form. So when you put that on your scan, you actually start to see the improvement sooner, it's a little bit more dramatic, it is closer to the form that actually does something it's a little bit farther down the pathway. The downside to that, of course is that retinoids have an adjustment period where your skin has to get used to them because they're getting the cells to turnover faster and they're doing what they need to do they shut down the oil glands a little bit. And so if you are too aggressive with your retinoid use, your skin's gonna feel a little bit dry, it might even freak out a little bit get red, you could flare an underlying condition like Rosae show if you use it, you know too much too fast. But if used properly, tiny little bit to the whole face couple times a week, maybe mix it with moisturizer, you know ease in like dip your toe in a little bit with the retinol even if it's treading on your skin actually will often adapt beautifully and with time will get used to it and then with time will show its benefit. So, you know, there's really no downside to being on a retinoid you know, we don't really recommend them or prescribe them if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. Although I will tell you the caveat to that if you're really up to date on your literature. Actually, there is a third generation retinoid that is safe in pregnancy and breastfeeding. So I do recommend that and I certainly did that for myself for all three of my babies. So you know, we grow and we evolve and there's something for everyone. But I do think on some level, a retinoid should be somewhere in your regimen there is just literally no reason for it not to be and just like you were saying about sunscreens how to pick the right sunscreen. I can do the same thing with a retinoid you can tell me what your skin issues are in the sense of like, do I have rotation? Do I have eczema? Do I have dry skin I try to write and I freaked out once, whatever. And I will give you the right retinoid to use that will be tolerable. I really have yet to find someone that hasn't been able to tolerate at least one of the retinoids that I recommend.

Amy: 29:54

Yeah, we're definitely gonna follow up with you on that too because so it sounds like you should do Some sort of retinoid, it's a pm treatment, right? You do it at night correct. And then someone would do either a retinol or retinol and they wouldn't do both because essentially, it's the same thing. One's just stronger than the other. Exactly.

Dr. Nazarian: 30:14

So there's no need to do both. You can start retinol if you really want to use it and get used to that and then move on to a prescription strength retinoid like Trent No. And if you want or, you know, actually now they have a prescription strength, retinoid over the counter even right because adapalene is in like proactive MD It's like used to be prescription now it's over the counter. So it's there. But you could ease into it slowly see how your skin does make sure that you don't have an issue don't get too dry. But yes, so what you would do really, if you want to have like this perfect skincare regimen is you start your morning by washing your face, very gently, having dry, and then what you would do is you would put on a vitamin serum of sorts, which would be your antioxidant, right? That's neutralize free radicals damage topically, put on your sunscreen, I take my Heliocare and then in the evening, you wash your face, you pat dry, you put on your retinoid of choice, and maybe a couple other things that hopefully all come in one. One products, you're not putting on 15 different products like the Koreans do, we're American, we want like the multitasker, right, like one or two. And thankfully, we have those products that do everything we want in one. So I put on another product that has you know, antioxidants and peptides and both factors and all these other things that we also no helps with anti aging. I mean, anti aging, to me is kind of the dumbest term ever. Because what does that even mean? Doesn't mean anything when the anti aging was aging mean, right? When you're talking about skin, it's actually broken down on many different levels, right, it's your skin is drying out more, you have discoloration, you have some redness, maybe some browns, you're losing collagen, you know, you've lost elasticity there, like actual pathways that have been taking place in your skin that when you put it all together makes you look old. So when you're anti aging, this is not just like one thing that you're trying to fix, you're trying to fix all those different parts of the skin. This is an organ that have all now shifted as you've gotten older and are reacting to the stressors from the environment. So you want things that help you maintain moisture and hold on to moisture and help stimulate collagen and elastin and help remove the pigment and help smooth the skin and, and there really is no magic bullet for that as close as retinoids come. They don't do everything right. So you really want to make sure you're addressing different aspects of the anti aging picture as we put it.

Amy: 32:39

Yeah, I wish I knew about retinoids earlier I really I like learned about it, I guess over the last six months or so. And I started using this brand called the ordinary you know that brand. And I can't remember how much it is the Sochi point. 5% Yeah, it's super cheap. And it's I heard it was good. But I didn't know there's all these different percentages. And I was just like, I'll just get this one because it seems like a lower percentage. Is it? Is there a cap that like an over the counter versus prescription? How do you know what concentration? Or what percent reality

Dr. Nazarian: 33:15

is, is even forgot even the over the counter, even in the prescription world? Honest to goodness, it doesn't really matter. I mean, the dirty secret with a lot of the stuff is that most of the time the patent is running out on a brand. And they need something else to patent. Right. And so then they go from like, you know, whatever it is point oh, five 2.06. Okay. Does it really, really, really matter? No, of course, it doesn't matter. It doesn't make a huge difference. No, it's literally the same thing. But they have to kind of create these new, proprietary patented percentages in order to stay branded, you know, in order to justify whatever price for something that is exclusive. Right. And so that's where you see all these different numbers popping out in medicine, and even frankly, over the counter. It doesn't really make a difference to me. It's over the counter. And then it's prescription. And I have patients that come in and they said oh, I've been doing like the you know, the point oh, five now for a year. Can I go to the point one, you know, and I'm thinking of, you know, it's like not even worth the argument anymore. Like but to me, it's more like the Joe was a little bit stronger than the cream, like that kind of stuff. Alright, fine, a little bit more no better absorption, or certain classes of retinoids first generation second third,

Amy: 34:36

you know, sometimes work a little bit differently. Yeah, mine's like a serum. Right? That

Dr. Nazarian: 34:39

tends to be So yours is over the counter. Right? This is the ordinary over the comfortable. Yeah, it's like a drop and like serum, they tend to be a little bit more potent. Don't even worry about the percentage. I think it's gonna be really gentle. I love the ordinary. Mostly because you said oh, it's low or something. That's it. Oh, yeah, it's cheap, right. That was like I wasn't even thinking of the percentage I was thinking of the price. Because that's actually the thing I love the most about this company. They make good products. But also they're just, they're just so reasonably priced and like rationally price like there are some things that are worth shelling out for. I shell out for them. There's some things that are expensive, and they're just expired, but they're worth every penny. But then there's some things that are, like expensive, and they're supposed to be cheap. And like, why aren't they cheap, they should be so cheap for people. And these companies just like inflate the price. So I like the ordinary, I've been impressed with their stuff, I'm happy and I'm super happy with their price point because that means everyone should be able, hopefully, to do something like that, or add it to their regimen.

Amy: 35:34

So you could start doing retinoids as young as you want, like theirs is What's the age people should start age

Dr. Nazarian: 35:40

does a lot of people aren't retinoid, really, really young for acne, right? Because we use it to treat acne too. You can even put them on babies. I mean, you know, you could do it for whatever age you want. Now, from an anti aging standpoint, I find if you're old enough to ask about it, you're old enough to use it. Right? You know, I think I'm not I'm not so negotiable with the sunscreen, I think that everyone should be wearing sunscreen, you know, six months older, if you're going to be outdoors, throw a little something on. But I think we've retinoids I don't think 20 is too young. I think you got to preserve what you have, you know, it's a lot harder to repair your skin a lot harder to repair your skin, it is a heck of a lot easier to preserve what you have. Plus it always looks better when you've preserved what you've gotten naturally than trying to recreate the way you were which can't be done. It's just expensive and exhausting, you know, but

Amy: 36:30

Right. It's like, I wish I wish I knew about all the skin stuff that I know now when I was in my 20s like the only thing I was doing them like eye cream. But other than that, that's probably sunscreen here and there. And I think

Katie: 36:41

about a yawn, every single wrinkle on your face. Yeah, it's good to know that you can get these retinas for good price, I definitely overpaid on my serum that I've been using. I'm gonna go find the ordinary,

Dr. Nazarian: 36:55

sometimes honest to god, I have patients that come in and they're using like, la mayor or whatever other like major expensive, you know, skincare company product. And I don't even pull it, pull it away from it. I don't take their toys away, because I do in all tell them. It's really expensive. They don't have to use that we there are other things. And they'll say something Oh, but I like it. And I think you know what? Okay, I like that you're taking care of yourself. And I liked that they have this ritual, and they they're investing in their skin, maybe they're paying too much, but it makes them feel so good. And I think that's ultimately what you're paying for to it's not that they don't work these products, they've, some of them have good ingredients in them for sure. And I think once they've been educated to at least know that they don't have to if they don't want to, but they just like that product. They like seeing that product. They like seeing that label. You know that psychological effect. I'm okay, actually, frankly, I'm okay with that, too. I have people that pay an awful lot for super crazy expensive sunscreen. You know what, if you're gonna put it on every day, you know, we say the best sunscreen is the one you actually wear. So if you love the way it smells, and feels and looks, and you pay 200 bucks for it, and there are sunscreens that cost 200 bucks. Okay, all right with it. As long as they know.

Katie: 38:04

I've definitely had a little bit of a journey with the retinoids and everything that my doctor put me on, how do you say to know in a year ago, because I was having all of this crazy adult acne all the sudden I hadn't had acne since I was a teenager, and then it came on. And then that was too strong. For me it was I think it was like a rosacea situation like a lot of really dry patchiness. So then I've downgraded to the serum. And that's still it. I mean, you have to kind of play play with what works for your skin, don't you think? I mean, I was doing it every night. And I realized that's too much then I did a couple nights a week now I'm doing I do it one night a week. And it seems to not like overdrive me out. But do you think it's fair to say that people if you don't have a dermatologist that's directly telling you how to use it to just kind of like ease yourself in, play around with how many nights how often you should be using it?

Dr. Nazarian: 38:52

I do I think that's totally fine. I think what happened to you is really classic. People will have this underlying rosacea they're not aware of and they're treating their acne and they'll get started on the retinoid and it will flare their rosacea very, very badly, which is super distressing, especially when you came in you already upset about a couple pimples, and then to have a rosacea flare, it can be kind of devastating. Whether you're younger or older. I don't think it matters at that point. So yes, I think you know, if you don't have a dermatologist telling you how to do it, you always start just slow and low. It's not a race, it may feel like you're trying to make up for lost time, but it's not a race. And even if you can only use it once or twice a week. Great and fine with it. You know there are little tricks that you can use to try and make your skin a little more. You know, tolerable tolerable, I guess or you make the retinol a little more tolerable for your skin and that makes your skin as dry when you apply it applying it to wet skin increases absorption. Put on a moisturizer before you put on your retinoid whether it's a retinol or tretinoin mix it diluted down you know and then like I said afford once or twice a week at most. And those things will help you they will. But again, if you're not sure where to look, and you've tried everything, I promise you, there's some retinoids that have been compounded with hyaluronic acid that make it anti inflammatory and hydrating. There are some that are compounded with a whole slew of anti inflammatory antioxidants, which offset the irritation profile. So this is not a new field or new problem. And you better believe that companies have already been on this and looking for a solution for years now. So there's plenty of options out there even for sensitive skin. If you want to get started on a retinoid. That's great.

Katie: 40:37

That's great information

Amy: 40:38

you were mentioning, I want to go back when you were talking about the regimen like in the morning, and you were saying you put on a vitamin serum, what kind of vitamin like a C or what what do you suggest. So

Dr. Nazarian: 40:48

C is the most popular one, the one that I use actually has like a bunch of different types in there, including C and E. So I use this brand called skin better science, there's like a lot of studies on it, you know, we have to we trust the science and medicine always. So as much as you want to like go with a product that says like 70% of people thought they look brighter. You can't this is not the way it works in medicine, it has to be studies and clinical trials, and we need to be able to see what it's actually doing black and white. So most of the most actually, all of the products that I use fall into that category, you know, like science backed. So I use a pump of that in the morning, and it's just chock full of antioxidants, including C and E, the primary ones if we're going to try to keep it simple, and that will basically just try to neutralize free radical garbage they come in contact with during the day live in Manhattan, you know how it is. And also I'm in front of a screen with a laptop or a TV or a phone. You know, we know now that like visible light will actually impact the way your skin looks to by creating more pigment triggering melasma causing aging. Suicide not to scare anyone but so you know, I kind of put that on to think of it as like an invisible shield underneath my sunscreen.

Amy: 42:01

Do you do moisturizer than after the sunscreen? Or you do more?

Dr. Nazarian: 42:04

I actually don't? I don't moisturize because my sunscreen is. Like I said multitasking. You know, so it's it's a moisturizing anti aging tend to sunscreen. And

Amy: 42:16

yeah, the one you told at the end, okay.

Dr. Nazarian: 42:18

So there's a lot there's a lot to this, right. So it's like tinted. So if you're gonna block block visible light, right, which I just told you about how it damaged, right. So if you want to block visible light, you can only block it with something tinted, you cannot block visible light with something invisible. So as of now we have not come up with you know, we've not invented a way to block visible light with just regular invisible sunscreens that like melt into your skin. So really has to be something tinted that does that. So this covers all my bases. Plus it's a physical block or a mineral one, which, you know, it's kind of like less likely to irritate which I, which I like if your skin is a little bit sensitive. But yeah, so it's really like the way I'm deciding what to use is actually very, very well thought out for many, many reasons, even though we kind of make it sound really simple to our patients sometimes. And believe it or not, this isn't even the only sunscreen on the market that does this stuff. Like there's a lot of other options that kind of do the same thing that are tinted, that are higher SPF, their anti aging during westernizing. But one may feel a little different, one may smell a little different. So you get to kind of try and see what you like. But

Amy: 43:27

I feel like there's also conflicting information on a moisturizer with an SPF versus just a separate SPF, because you hear people say, no, just use a moisturizer and then use a separate SPF. And then some people say to combine it. So it's like you never know but I'm going to listen to what you're talking about. But it's like it's there's just so much information out there that for people I'm glad we're talking to you. Because I always was like, Oh, I don't want to get one of those mixes because I don't know if it's as works as well as if you just put regular

Dr. Nazarian: 43:59

does, you just have to make sure you're applying the right amount, right? Like it's the same thing with like your sunscreen and your makeup. That is I don't mind it. But if you're not applying enough to get the SPF on the label, which is like you know, two milligrams per centimeter squared of skin or as we like to say it now just like the two finger length rule, you kind of have to put two strips on your fingers and then use that to rub into your face and neck. And if you're not using that much of whatever you're putting on, you're not going to get the SPF that's label on the bottle and you're going to be selling yourself a little bit short. So for situations like that, if you know you're putting on enough which you should be for the stuff that feels like moisturizer, it's gonna go on like moisturizer, you're gonna be fine. There's no need for anything else. Amy is that yeah,

Katie: 44:44

that's a really good

Dr. Nazarian: 44:45

tip to finger length with two finger links about I should say. So you kind of put the strip on your two fingers here. This is for face and neck right this is for both your face and neck if you're going to be going out with Want to remember that kind of not to neglect this area under the chin, and you rub it, you'd be actually surprised at how well it goes in Rub, rub, rub, rub rub on the neck. That's it.

Katie: 45:10

Nice. That's great. I've definitely

Amy: 45:16

felt like I have either, like using a piece is good to know.

Dr. Nazarian: 45:20

I mean, it's another reason not to use low SPF right you lose, you use a low SPF and you don't play enough, you're getting even less than the SPF, you thought you were right, you're using an SPF 15 And you're applying it just weekly and lightly. What are you getting like an SPF five. But if you use a higher SPF, you know, so keep those things in mind for you.

Amy: 45:40

So what's the minimum SPF you should use like 40 or

Dr. Nazarian: 45:44

I think what you were saying before is like you don't know who to listen to there's like, the other thing that always occurs to me when people say things like this is that there's just an awful lot of people talking right now. And I think a lot of people truly feel like they have the podium and the right to speak and they know about skin but they actually don't know anything about skin. You know, these like skin experts never even studied skin. They just it's all you know, anecdotal evidence that they've tried and use and want to share their experience, but then present themselves as actual experts and it really confuses the consumer because there's so much noise because everyone wants a seat at the table. But at the end of the day honest to god just trust the physicians please just trust the physician. You know, you know, we spent like, absolutely studying this stuff. I mean, it's it's easy to think you know what's going on because you can see the skin and so everyone feels like they have this personal experience with their skin that they want to share. But there is so much going on underneath the surface. You know, it's an organ like anything else. It has its own unique immune system. It has its like what to me one of the most fascinating things in the body skin

Amy: 46:59

we hope you enjoyed part one of Dr. Nazarian this episode we found it to be very insightful. Stay tuned for part two next week where she goes through all things, dark circles under your eyes, fillers, eye surgery, body sculpting and a game changing injectable for cellulite. So stay tuned for part two next week. Bye for now. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.