Episode 26 - Dr. Erin Cooper Returns; What We Can And Can’t Control (Full Transcript)
This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 26.
Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.
Amy: 0:07
Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.
Unknown: 0:19
Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a form of fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are
Amy: 0:25
sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started.
Unknown: 0:37
Welcome Nirvana sisters, welcome back this week by absolute popular demand. We have the fabulous Dr. Aaron Cooper is our first reoccurring guest. We'd like to call her our resident psychologist. Her episode Don't should all over yourself with Dr. Aaron Cooper. It was episode eight in the first season did outstanding in case you didn't catch it. Dr. Cooper is a clinical psychologist. And she specializes in mood disorders, anxiety, stress, trauma, romantic relationships, and much much more. The last Convo we had with her was a lot of fun. So we are super excited to have her back. Hey, Coop. Hey guys.
Amy: 1:22
Thanks for back.
Unknown: 1:24
Yeah, welcome back. I should disclaimer because I called her coop. I've known her since I don't know how old we were. So we're really old friend. She's my best friend in the world. So to be more formal, I guess I'll call you Aaron or Dr. Cooper. I mean, actually, I do have some patients that call me Dr. Koop. That's great.
Amy: 1:43
I love that. Dr. Koop.
Unknown: 1:47
Dr. Koop All right. Well, let's kick it off with our weekly Nirvana Ami. What was yours this week?
Amy: 1:53
Well, I would say mine is probably very similar to many in the universe right now, which is my kids went back to school this week. So it was just a nice week because I think the kids were actually excited to go back because they were with my kids school. They were in school last year, but it still wasn't you know, ideal. And this year is still not ADL, they still have to wear masks, etc. But I think they were really excited my little ones starting middle school and my big ones starting high school. So big milestones for both of them. And they were excited. And it was bittersweet for me to see them kind of go on to to new schools and new experiences, but I was happy for them. So it was definitely a Nirvana to see them kind of get back into their element and in a routine. So that's me for the week. What about you, Katie?
Unknown: 2:42
That's really sweet. Well, yeah, I'd say mine is absolutely the same. I mean, Madeline started last week. And it was phenomenal. But for this week, it was received this morning, she, you know, was in school for literally two months last year. So she was so excited to go to school and to be with her friends and to socialize and do the whole bit, so I'm just so I'm happy for her. The child has been sheltered for a large fraction of her life, considering she's three. So it was a great day. What about you, Cooper, mine has been the weather in Cleveland. I don't know if either of you have ever been. So I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, for those who are listening. And I don't know if either of you have ever been here in early September. But the weather is perfection. It is clear blue sky sunshine, mid to upper 70s, no humidity. And it is just like there's the cool Christmas in the morning and then the warm sun in the afternoon. And it is just such a mood lifter, and so well deserved. I think for us Clevelanders because we all know that winter is coming. And in a few short months, it will be gray and snowy. But for now, man, it is hard to beat the weather that we're getting.
Amy: 3:49
I love that. I know we've had some pretty good weather here too. And it really does completely change your mood. You feel like you can do anything when the weather is good. And that fresh air is coming in, you feel like a different human. So that's great. You know,
Unknown: 4:01
most of our listeners already know who you are, Dr. Cooper, but give us a really quick little recap on your career. Tell us how long you've been practicing. You have your own private practice, etc. You just want to give us a little snippet insight for the new listener. Yeah, I've got a private practice that I started when my oldest daughter was born. So she's four and a half. So started it just about little over four years ago. I have a couple of clinicians that work with me as well. And the number of clinicians has waxed and waned over the years. And I've been in practice for about 10 years. You know, I've been in training. I mean, I was in school for 10 years and then there's postdoc training and so I've been doing this a long time and yeah, moving forward, the business is probably not going to grow too much. I've had to rein things in and recognize like how many buckets my energy is getting poured into and and Right now at this time in my children's lives, it's looking like, the buckets are all there. I can't add any more buckets. So just working, I'm working on my own and terms of being satisfied with where things are currently and accepting that, you know, I can't continue to expand and maybe the way that my more ambitious self would like to, because of other responsibilities that I have
Amy: 5:24
failure on that one, I think a lot of us struggle with that. So it's good that you're able to recognize your, your limits, it's hard to do.
Unknown: 5:32
Yeah, for sure. Only so many hours in the day, I feel like that kind of puts us a little bit into some questions that I've been wanting to ask you about, because we thought it would be a good episode to talk about two major topics, control and boundaries. And I think for a lot of people right now, I'm so curious what you're seeing with your patients, because I imagine control is a massive issue for people in the world right now, just because of everything that's going on and still being like, controlled by the government and with COVID. And, and how that can trickle down into every aspect of your life. And he's setting boundaries, like you said, I feel like you just set a boundary for yourself, but for your own health, knowing exactly what you need and how smart it has to do that and to be able to get there. So what are you seeing in regards to your patients that are struggling a lot right now with let's let's start with control. What's a common theme right now that you're that you're seeing? Yeah, you touched on it. It's the the state of the world that we're living in, if you take a step back, and watch too much of the news, and read too many headlines and spend too much time on social media, we are experiencing a lot of cultural, global traumas. And many people are feeling re traumatized by the headlines on a daily or hourly basis. And in response to the anxiety within us that this stuff creates, we often seek to control everything. And our anxiety is at an all time high. And the more that we feel that we can control in our environment, the more at ease, we feel like I have controlled everything, nothing can go wrong, everything will be fine. And it's really important to recognize that there's actually very little that we can control and many of these situations COVID, for instance, somewhat I've had several patients talking about having family weddings coming up and really being worried about how to manage that. And should they go and should they still be having this event, etcetera, etcetera. And I've encouraged people to think about what are the things that you can control based on the information that we have to date, because we can only operate based on the information that we have right now. And so recognizing that if I'm going to throw a wedding for my child, who, Whose wedding has been, you know, pushed back for the past 18 months, because of this pandemic, they really want to have it and they're looking forward to it. Well, what can you can control, you can control the location, whether it's indoor or outdoor, you can control the number of people, whether they come from multiple households, or limited number of households, you can control their vaccination status, you can control whether people wear masks or don't wear masks. And in thinking through, like, what are the things that I have a choice in? And what are the things I don't have a choice in? What are the things that I'm not in charge of. So I had a conversation with a patient recently that to encourage them to recognize that if, if an event is being held, they are not in charge of someone else's decision to come. That ultimately everyone is making the decisions that they feel best to make, to to navigate this pandemic, or really any situation in line with their value system. And we are not in control of other people's choices. And that tends to be a really hard one. For a lot of people to wrap their head around and to accept I think intellectually, we get it like of course, I'm not in charge about other people's other people's choices. But emotionally we feel so invested in other people's choices. And it's very difficult to take a step back and recognize that that's not my monkeys, not my circus. I can't control those people and their choices. Yeah, it's interesting that you say that because there's some aspects that I always wonder like, so there's a level of control that's healthy, and then there's a level of control that's unhealthy and I feel like you just gave us like you just delineated that line, like what you can control yourself is healthy and you can give yourself permission to do that. You just can't control other people. And I mean, speaking as a wife as a mother, sometimes I I really have to remind myself of that, that I cannot control my husband or my children no matter how hard I try.
Amy: 9:50
My best we can I didn't know that. Yes, we can tell us how to do that.
Unknown: 9:58
And best you can influence To the people in your life to to potentially make different choices. So you can't control whether or not your husband decides to put his dirty laundry in the hamper, or on the ground in front of the hamper, right? Because like, at the end of it, he is an adult person. And he's going to make the choice when he takes off his clothes, where they're going to go, you can influence the choice that he makes by communicating to him, how that makes you feel when you see his laundry on the ground, right? Someone's obviously picking that up at some point. That's not just living there indefinitely. So if it's not you, who do you think it might be? And how do you think that might make me feel to continually be picking up clothes from an adult that I'm living with, when there's already these other little people I'm living with, I'm also picking up after. And so again, it's not that I can control what my partner is going to do, or anyone in my life can't control their choices, but I can hope to influence them.
Amy: 11:00
Let me ask you a question about this. And this is just more of a way to say something like that to someone. I think a lot of people struggle with communication in their relationships in their marriage. And what do you think is the best way to communicate feedback, whether it's to your children, to your husband, to your friend, using that example, with the laundry, right? Like, I think, especially with husband, husbands and wife, they get in this pattern of constantly nagging me or someone is passive aggressive, because they're not doing XYZ, but the other person doesn't know and like, what is the most positive way to say, hey, when you do this, this bothers me. Because I think many times people deal with feedback very differently. And they'll, they'll be defensive, or I don't know, I'm just I always like good phrases to start with, like, I'll say to, you know, one of my kids, for example, Hey, let me give you feedback about something you did the other day XYZ. Sometimes when they do that, they, you know, will automatically go on the defense, sometimes I will give them a compliment, and then give them you know, the feedback within the compliment. But do you have any good recommendations on how to position constructive criticism?
Unknown: 12:06
Well, first, before I forget this thought, I don't love the freezing of can I give you feedback?
Amy: 12:14
It's like I use that I use that at work, which is not the right course you do my home? Like,
Unknown: 12:19
of course you do. And it sounds very much like, my boss has just walked into my office to give me feedback. And we all know that's conversation that's not going to go great. Right? Like no one's boss is like, I would like to give you some feedback about that. You were awesome. So I'm not surprised that your kids are reacting defensively, right off the bat, you say can I give you for my husband? Yeah. Well, your husband? Yeah. Because it also the way that the phrasing of it sets up this like power differential of, and it's, it's there with your children, we do have more power than our children, obviously. But with our partner that really shouldn't be there. And to set up a conversation I'd like to give you some feedback is setting the stage for I am your superior, I am above you in some way. And you've done bad. So I would, I would leave that freezing at home.
Amy: 13:13
Yeah, and I am sorry to interrupt one of the one of the things that I always say to my husband and my kids is it's not what you say it's the way that you say it, because they will often say things or my husband will often say things that aren't meant that they come out in a certain way that you're immediately defensive. So yes, keep going. I
Unknown: 13:31
think it's both. It's also what you say and the way that you say it. So timing is really important. When we want to have a meaningful conversation with anyone in our life. Oftentimes, people when they're feeling really intensely and passionately about something, they want to have that conversation like I feel this intense emotion, this emotion is uncomfortable. I gotta, I have to get this off my chest. And we're going to have this conversation right now. But we need to be mindful of what situations need to be in place in order for us to have the best chance of our partner, child, coworker, friend, etc. hearing us and hearing what we're trying to say and having the space and the time to react to it in a meaningful way. So first thing in the morning, not a great time for most people right before bed. Not a great time for most people. I've so many couples that I work with, where they save heavy conversations for like as they're crawling into bed. Like that's it yeah, yeah. I'm like, Dude, I am trying to wind down not now. Right, like I don't need to wind up I don't I'm my brain was turned off. So So you know, first thing in the morning, right? Right before bed, right before meal. I mean, you know, like being hangry that's a thing. And if I'm hungry, I am not paying attention to what you're saying to me. I'm paying attention to the food that I want to get in my belly. You know if some ones on their way out from work. Or if someone has just walked in the door from work, and you're like, hey, here's all these things that I need to tell you. It's like, oh, timeout, like, Give me three seconds to shift my brain from one task to the next. So I actually am a big fan of planning, standing meetings to have these kinds of conversations, it requires a lot of diligence on your end in terms of managing your own emotional response throughout the week, and sort of saving it holding it for them. You can do that with your spouse, you can do that with coworkers, you can do that with your children. Hey, let's have a check in how are we doing? How are you feeling? Is there anything that's come up this past week, so timing is super, super important. And then being both mindful of me, as you said, sort of your tone, but then also the words that you say, and I think that when we, when everyone is doing that, then things are gonna go the most smooth. However, we need to recognize that we're all human beings. And none of us do this perfectly. I mean, I, I teach people how to do this on a daily basis. And I assure you, I do not do this perfectly. So we do have to just allow for some grace, that that maybe our partner is, is coming at me in a way that feels a little intense, fine, feel like I'm being attacked. But maybe it's because they whatever it is, that they are bringing to my attention is beyond their ability to manage their own emotional response in the time that they are doing the best that they can with what they've got in that given moment. And maybe in that given moment, they're coming off a little intense. And so I have a couple of options here. I encourage couples to develop like a code word of, you know, like, banana, when someone's getting really intense, like something silly to sort of, like, let them know, like, Hey, you're doing that thing that you do were like, really excited, and kind of makes me feel defensive. So, you know, but then also, perhaps most importantly, paying attention to the words and the content of what our partner is saying. And trusting that they're saying what they mean. And I think that that is often a really challenging thing we're trying to read between the lines, we're interpreting tone, etcetera, etcetera. And I think that it can be really helpful for couples, or parents and children or friends or coworkers to simply trust that the person you have this relationship with, is saying what they mean, and listen to the content of, of what they're saying, instead of assuming all of this background intention, and assuming the feeling behind it, because we don't actually know until they tell us none of us are mind reader's, I always try when I am, you know, if there's like a big thing that I need to discuss with Adam or my kids or something I always try to start with like, this is coming from love. You know, like, I might not always say those exact words, but I try to like, give them that tone. But like, again, this is when I have been managing it. This is not just like on a random Wednesday, when something happens, and I fly off the cuff, which which happens, which, you know, kind of like circles back to the control thing. Like, I definitely want to like snap a little more quickly. And, you know, if the kids are doing something I don't want them to do instead of letting like, they might not be hurting anything. They're not hurting anyone. They're not necessarily like ripping my house apart. But maybe it's like, it's too noisy right now, or it's just, it's more than I can take. So I try to get them to stop. I try to control them in that moment. And I'm personally trying to work on like, I don't need to control that, you know, like, at what point do you say to yourself, let your child be your child, let them do what they're going to do. Like, you know, what, what lines do you use within parenting? Do you think it's time to reel in that control? I think that natural consequences are a really good thing to rely on. So if my children are doing something that is going to get them injured, it's my job as their parent to intervene, right? Like, we would never watch our child run into the front yard and head for the street with a car coming be like that. She's gonna learn eventually. Right? Like, That's not. That's not how that works. That's a good way to get your kids taken away. But if if my kids are and this just happened last night, if my kids are simultaneously banging a toy hammer on their toy, and the other ones playing on the toy piano as loud as they possibly can, I mean, they're not hurting anything. Are they driving me a little insane? Yeah, more than a little insane. But do I need to intervene and stop and say, Oh, no, let's go and read a book. Well, maybe in that moment, that's what their little bodies need. Or if they're older kids, maybe that's what you know, maybe they're riding bikes with their friends and, you know, playing video games or whatever, that actually should be limited. But you know, maybe they're playing guitar in the garage, whatever it is. Maybe that's what their bodies and their minds need at that given time, even though it's clashing with what I need. And so in that moment, you know, well, so we recognize what can I control? Well, I can attempt to control my children. It's probably not gonna go well. I mean, granted, my kids are toddlers, so it's really not gonna go well. But, I mean, I would argue even with older kids not gonna go that well, even if they even if they acquiesce to what I want them to do, they're not going to love me for shifting them off the thing that they prefer to be doing, right. So what can I do in that moment when my kids are making all this noise and I'm overstimulated, and I need them to stop? Well, instead of controlling them, because they're not hurting themselves or anybody else. I can remove myself from the room, I can remove myself from the situation. Within reason, I can't leave the house and go to the store and be like, alright, toddlers, good luck. But I can, you know, close the baby gate, and go into the bathroom and shut the door and just sit for a minute. So in the situation that you were describing, Katie, I would think about not how do you control them to make them do what what you want the girls to be doing in that given moment? But think about what do you need in that given moment, to bring your anxiety back down, to feel less overstimulated, and to be able to come to them with love and kindness? Yeah, that's such great advice, as good as
Amy: 21:19
my husband needs to listen to this. Because as Katie knows, he likes quiet. And so whenever the kids are loud, he can't it's he gets very overwhelmed. So yeah, good. Little tip. And then just before we continue on this conversation, just going back to the whole, I'm using the word feedback, because I don't know another word. We want to use USSR say me, I know what is the what is the best way to approach it. I do like this idea of like having a weekly kind of conversation or something. When is the best time to do that? And know, we talked about the times where it's not good, but like, when is it that is it? Is it good to do that on a weekend? Is it good to do like, after dinner? Like when's the best time to do that? And then how do you sort of start the conversation in a positive way, a phrase you could use in terms
Unknown: 22:04
of when you do it, it depends on the relationship and what works best for that relationship. So some, some people, mostly couples will institute this kind of thing. Gottman calls this the State of the Union visit, you know, what's the state of our union. So for some couples that I've that I work with, weekends, or it, you know, it's like Sunday morning, over coffee, kids are playing independently, like we're both kind of chill, etc. For other couples is like, I don't want to think about that kind of stuff on the weekend. Like, let's just knock this out after the kids go to bed on a Wednesday night. So it really just depends on what works for the two of you, for some people first thing in the morning can be a perfectly fine time to have any kind of serious conversation. It just is not for most and so it's those aren't times Amy that are like just strictly off limits don't do these are their thing times to be mindful of that many people are not open to having a conversation. That doesn't mean that. Yeah, so just respecting that, you know, respecting that, that people have certain boundaries, and have certain aspects of themselves that are not, are not going to permit them to have an early morning or late night conversation. But if you and your husband are people who can have that conversation, right before bed, go for it, in terms of starting a conversation off positively, I wouldn't put it honestly wouldn't put a ton of pressure on yourself to come up with this, like, perfect appropriate for, you know, a piece of canvas type quote of like, let me lead into this positively. Because if you're having a meeting to talk about these things, the expectation is we're both coming together to have a conversation about what's going on in our marriage. And so the intention of this business meeting has already been set. So I don't know that you even need to have something pre made, I think you can just sit down and say like, you know, how's
Amy: 24:00
the intention is already there? It's not a surprise.
Unknown: 24:04
Exactly. Whereas when it is a surprise, right? You have to know. Yeah, like and my husband's like, Hey, we got to talk about, you know, what our weekend plans are? And I'm like, you're not? Yeah, that is actually, you know, he could tell you. So
Amy: 24:24
let me ask you a question based on your experience with, you know, talking to a million people about this, this idea of like a weekly discussion, or weekly touch base or State of the Union, are most husbands into that or wives because I could see some people being like, I'm not doing that.
Unknown: 24:41
There's definitely a lot of people who are like, I'm not doing that. And I've had both partners tell me like, I'm not doing that. For some couples, they will do it for a couple of months. And they're like, you know, I think that we're in a good groove. Now that's really helped us work out some kinks. And they use it as long as they need to, and then they move on. And I've had other couples were like, you know, this is a good game changer for us. This has cleared up so much tension, so much miscommunication because I mean, I go so far I have people take notes, you know, and I have them like switch off, like who's taking notes so that one person doesn't become the secretary. It's like, you know, switch off taking notes have an agenda, like treat it like a proper meeting, and put it on the family schedule, and it doesn't get moved. And so some people are like, this is a game changer. We're doing this until we die. And then other people will do it for a week or two. Like many things in life, it's hard to become a habit, it falls off. And then they will say we've had all these fights lately, like Dr. Cooper, we haven't been doing those meetings, we need to get back to those meetings. So you know, they can be very helpful. There certainly are some couples are, they're not a fix for everything. But they can help open the lines of communication by giving both partners an opportunity to look forward to plan and think about how they want to communicate with their partner what they need to communicate with their partner, and have a designated time for it instead of this. How am I going to catch your attention long enough in between Joey's soccer practice and Sally's clarinet rehearsal and school and work? And when are we going to have this conversation, it gives both both parties something to look forward to.
Amy: 26:15
Yeah, I love that. It actually reminds me of when my kids were smaller, well, like pre pandemic when the kids were younger. And I felt like I wasn't spending because I was working so much. I felt like I wasn't spending enough time with them. And I felt like my kids weren't like talking to me as much. And I remember my pediatrician was like, You should do a monthly, I forget what you call it, like a monthly meeting, like a monthly fun day or whatever, where everyone leaves their electronics at home and you go do an activity, whether it's hiking, or biking, or walking, or whatever it is, she goes to naps when you communicate with your kids. And we started doing that we had it on the calendar every month, and it was great. And it really did help get everyone closer. So it's sort of the same thing just manifested a different way. Well, I'm
Unknown: 26:53
particular, it can be really beneficial to try to talk over an activity like playing cards or going for a walk. Because it's harder for kids. You know, there's they don't know how they're feeling right? So it's it's hard for them to sit down and look mom and dad in the eye. You know, I feel anxious because I don't know if I'm gonna get a good grade in English or not like is that that's some kids can do that. Man, I
Amy: 27:17
actually find that I've told my husband that a lot like talk to Jackson, our older one when he's playing video games, like play a video game with him, because he'll just naturally talk to you about things. And anytime we do that with our kids, they always are, you know, talking or telling us things without actually having like a serious conversation, but they just mentioned things and then you talk about it.
Unknown: 27:36
It's the whole like meeting thing you were just completely reminding me of when Adam and I first started dating We were together for as you guys know, six years before we got married, we had check ins, these occasional check ins, because I knew that he was like, not ready to settle down. And he was having a hard time with the idea of being monogamous and everything. So like we decided we would occasionally check and like so still feeling this, like still into it. And it worked. And it kept us on track. And you know if there was ever a time where he was like, yeah, like, alright, so maybe we take little space apart from each other for a little while. You know? And same with me. Yeah, marriages is no different. Katie, every day in a marriage every day, we wake up and we choose to remain married. So right, yeah, so so true, you know, keeping these check ins while we're married, marriages end. And so every day that we were married, we are waking up and choosing to remain in this marriage. And so having these check ins can be very beneficial. Yeah, true. I
Amy: 28:36
also have a strategy that I've been using lately. And I want to know what you think of this. Dr. Koop. So I started, I don't even know if my husband, I don't think my husband knows this. But I have notes in my phone. And when I get annoyed at something he does, I just write it down. Because it helps me process it instead of being annoyed with him. Or being like, I have to talk about this, I literally will just write something down, almost like I'm talking to myself, but I write it in my notes. And then I don't even think about it anymore. And sometimes I revisit it and I'll look at it and be like, Yeah, that wasn't that big of a deal. Or I'll look at I'll be like, Oh, I should really talk about this. Of course, I haven't really done anything with the notes yet. I think the notes would probably be good to bring to a weekly check in. But I think it's also good because sometimes depending on, you know, your hormones, what time of the month, and he could get more annoyed than usual. And I I find it helpful for me to write it down because it helps me to reflect and look back. Sometimes I'm exaggerating. And sometimes the points are valid, whether I addressed them or not. I probably should because sometimes I just forget about it after I write it. But what do you think of that idea?
Unknown: 29:40
So I love that. It's essentially a journaling. Yeah, your journaling as opposed to you know, longhand? It's great. I think you should continue doing that. I recommend that a lot of people most people could probably benefit from doing that what you do with it? Well, the answer to what to do with it is that you don't always have to do something with it. So when you go back and you read it and you go Hmm, like not that big a deal. That's a great example of how in the moment, our emotions can feel so overwhelming and so accurate and so intense. But then if we give it a day or two, or even a couple of hours, like that was really not that, like, I don't care. And I think that, what's nice about that exercise for you is that without you even realizing it, it's highlighting the fact that we don't have to talk about everything that our partner does, or our children do, or our friends do. That annoys us. And if we did, most of us would not have very many positive relationships. Like it, no one wants to hear constantly, all the ways that they are failing to be the ideal role in your life. And so, you know, especially in our marriages, because my goodness, there's, there's plenty of fodder there. We really shouldn't. And I'm not a big fan of the word should, as you guys know, that's a rare exception. We I mean, we really don't benefit from talking about every little thing that our partner does that irks or noise or upsets us, right. But what you can do when you go back and review those notes is if you see themes emerging, like oh, like, oh, man, this thing that has been like, really, under my skin has been under my skin for 18 months. Yeah, okay. Maybe it's time that we have a conversation about a good point, an emerging theme. Yeah. Because I actually do that too. I've written down things that that I'm does it irritate the crap out of me so that I could talk to them about right, so
Amy: 31:31
then you're not talking about specific situations, but you're saying like these, this keeps coming up in various ways.
Unknown: 31:37
One, having specific examples is still important. But it doesn't have to be like this. One thing happened one time, and now we need to have this big, long discussion about it. Because a lot of partners are gonna like, what sorry that I was an imperfect human that day III, right, like, whereas if you can say like, Hey, I've been keeping some notes and journaling. And I was looking back through it the other day, and I realized that this thing that you did on Saturday is pretty similar to what you've been doing for the past, you know, month, the past 12 months, the past two years. And every time it upsets me, and it's still upsetting me. And I would like to figure out a way that we could work through this and help you understand how this impacts me and how it makes me feel right, because still tying back to what you initially said a few moments ago about giving grace, I think that's like a common thread in our discussion today is the importance of giving grace to those around us. Because, you know, we write these things down. If we brought up every single thing all the time, then we would probably be nowhere fast. Right? Things would exactly relationships would not be hanging out. So So yeah, yeah, I like that. It's a good, that's a good one to
Amy: 32:51
remember. And I do like, the idea, which I guess I sort of inherently know. But to make sure that you're talking about it when the time is right. Because that's I think it's really important for the kids because I think both my husband I both have a habit of like wanting to address something right away. But you always know like, when a top I mean, not that I've toddlers but it's like that idea when you have a toddler screaming, it's not the time to try to do it. You know, you got to wait till the kid has come. And I think for for relationships, the same thing, like my husband, as Katie knows is like the worst sleeper in the universe. So when he hasn't had a good night's sleep, it's like, forget it. I'm not talking to him all day, right? I have to wait until he's like refreshed, not hungry, whatever to like, have a conversation that's productive. Otherwise, forget about it.
Unknown: 33:35
Yeah, as I would be no. Right, exactly. Well, I think we're gonna have to save boundaries for the next time you come back, because we just crushed it on control in relationship. And now we have so many
Amy: 33:47
so many questions. And I'm sure these are all common, right? Is this like what everybody asks you? It's like the same thing, right? Everyone kind of has the same challenges I would imagine.
Unknown: 33:57
Yes, all not all, many humans have some of the same human challenges. So these are nothing nothing that we've talked about today is something that I haven't talked about with patients before. And in really, at this point, it's it's pretty rare that someone brings something where I'm just like, wow, I'm, I am stumped. I've no one I've ever talked to has ever had this issue in any way, shape, or form. Because, you know, human beings are inherently imperfect and human beings struggle with being human beings.
Amy: 34:27
I think to the the pandemic has made this better and worse, because I think, like, I am home so much more than I ever have been, which I love and I feel like my relationships are better because of that. But since you're spending so much time with your family, you're also identifying things are getting annoyed with things easier because you're just around more and everyone's around each other more. So it's a catch 22
Unknown: 34:50
Well, um, because then everyone's individual wants and needs are bumping up against each other more often. Whereas when we have these sort of delineated like you go to school, you go to your office, et cetera, we have our spaces where, like, within that context, my wants and needs are being managed for eight hours of the day or six hours of the day or what have you. But when everyone is at home for longer and longer periods of times, all of my wants and needs all my partner's wants and needs, all my children's wants and needs. They're all just like, you know. So like, what are those cars, those children's cars were crashing together, trying to get what you want. Out of this same context, which is the health
Amy: 35:41
there's an article that will post I haven't read it yet, my friend sent it to me last night, just talking about the pandemic and the way that people are feeling on the New York Times, it's called, there's a name for the black, you're feeling it's called languishing. And there's a whole article about it, you can access it. So she's gonna send it to me, but was just an interesting idea. Because I think a lot of people are in this last state at this point of the pandemic, with all of the new things coming out. And all these, like you were saying in the beginning of the show, the news and all of these new variants, and it's just very anxiety producing and kind of making people feel just
Unknown: 36:16
right. Yeah, I think there's also a sense of, of loss and grief that many people are experiencing, like, Katie, you were saying, with Rhys, you know, she only got two months of school last year, she's been so isolated. You know, I shared last time, my daughter, my four and a half year old has a number of complex medical needs. And to say that my two children have been isolette. I mean, she's in school right now only by thank goodness, the school board mandating masks, which allows it to be somewhat safe for her. But I mean, we don't go anywhere other than the zoo. And because the zoo is outdoors, my children don't go on playdates, they don't go to the playground, if you think about how much time has been lost in this pandemic, and then we continue to hear about more and more variants, etc, etc. The sense of loss just kind of stretches and stretches like, oh, like we only thought it was going to be a short period of time. And now it's like how much more time and freedom of being able to live our lives in the way that we want to safely without endangering the lives of others? How much more loss are we going to endure? And I think that's what is sort of underlying the way a lot of people are feeling is
Amy: 37:30
right, and it's our control. And that's the hard part
Unknown: 37:33
out of our control. So what can I control? Well, I can't control the fact that there's an awful lot of people that don't believe COVID is a thing or that it's a serious thing. But I can control the ways that I keep my daughter safe. And I can do that by communicating with her physicians and her school and making sure that she's masked and practice wearing a mask. And I can control the choices that I make and getting vaccinated and wearing a mask wherever I go, and who we interact with and how long we interact with them for and what context. Those are the things inside of my control. Because if I get bogged down with things that are outside of my control, I mean, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. Yeah, isn't that true? Well, that's all excellent, excellent advice. And thank you very much for it, because I think it's like such a pivotal point again. And last time when we had you on we were literally talking about the home stretch of COVID. And guess what? It was home stretch. So then, but what I think we should do now, and we did it last time, but I'm just curious if anything's changed up as our rap session, you want to stick around for it. We have a couple of the fun questions for you. Sure. Okay. All right. So what's one of your favorite wellness and beauty hacks now mine at this point is avoiding added sugar, gluten and dairy. I spent the majority of my adult life very interested invested and in love with those three food groups, air quotes, right sugars. But for me it was and cutting those out of my life. I mean, it's just been a game changer. For me. I think it is improved my health across the board. And I couldn't be more thankful for for the fact that I made that choice and have stuck with it because now I can't imagine going back nice and it helps with your autoimmunity. Also, because it helps with my it's I mean, it greatly manages my autoimmune disease, but also, you know, it helps manage just the way that my skin looks the way that my body looks the way that my clothes fit the functioning of my daughter. I'm sure Yeah, right. I'm not nearly as emotionally tied to sweets and desserts. And I mean, I used to not be able to walk past like in grad school, there'd be like free doughnuts for a talk. I mean, I just I could not walk past it without having to have them not just one too now. I mean, I walk past desserts or you know, look at the dessert menu. It's like no, none of this is going to make me feel as good as I feel without it. So no thanks for yeah Yeah, that's
Amy: 40:00
great. Same question, maybe your answer will be different. You just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you that they're five minutes away. What is your quick beauty routine? What do you put on? What are your go to Holy Grails to get out of the house and in the car on time, but I will switch it because last time we just said, it could be whenever like, you're going out. But let's say you're going to work and you happen to be taking over that day, you only have five minutes to get ready. How does it change for you?
Unknown: 40:26
Nice reoccurring guest twist. So actually, I will say that the first time I was here, you guys hadn't done this yet. I remember, I remember listening and being like, Oh, that's a new question. And so the reality is, if this was an Uber, if I'm taking an Uber, it's because I'm going someplace nice. Like it's a special occasion. Ring. Yeah. And the reality is, is I'm going to make the Uber wait. Right writing,
Amy: 40:56
no one has said that one.
Unknown: 40:58
I mean, that's my, that's my boundary. Like, if it's a special occasion, I'm taking an Uber, I'm gonna, I'll take the low rating on the chin, I'll pay whatever fee but I'm gonna make them wait because I want to feel my best on a night out and I want to look my best
Amy: 41:14
way to get ready in five minutes, I'm not going to
Unknown: 41:17
just not going to happen. Especially if I'm fresh out of the shower, no way. However, if it's work, right, like there's, you know, there's a hard stop or a hard start for that, right, I have a patient scheduled, I gotta get to work. In that case, I'm going to attempt to pull my short hair back, but I'm gonna throw my foundation inside my mix it with my moisturizer, put it on, you're going to use one of my eyebrow pencils that are faster. So I can just like quickly fill in my brows. And then I'm going to go with a bold lip. And I'm going to use my Maybelline LashBlast mascara and the orange tube. Oh, because I have been relying on Old Faithful since it came out. And I've tried all the more expensive brands and have yet to find anything that I liked nearly as much love it. It's a good one. All right. So how are you maintaining your daily Nirvana these days? Last time, I think he told us just movement and getting on the treadmill and all that same stuff for what are you up to? Some of the same stuff. But I'm also reminding myself that while this particular moment might be difficult, it can always be worse. So helping reframe things that you know, like the storm eventually passes. And and even though this is challenging, it could be worse for me and it is worse for other people. And so having such a shift in my mindset allows me to bring some more gratitude into my heart and being more thankful that okay, this, this is bad. And this is hard. And this is challenging, but it's not as bad as it could be. Yeah, that's really good. Like made me tear up a little bit because I kind of needed to hear that right now. So yeah, that's a great one. I like that a little perspective shift is always important. Yeah, amazing. All right. Well, do you have time to stick around for the product review on the mantra, or do you need to head out? Sure, sure. Okay. Amy, do you have a product? I
Amy: 43:08
really don't and I forgot to ask you. So we can, we can skip on that this week or I
Unknown: 43:18
just discovered, this tart has a new it's called lippy lingerie out. It's like a pencil slash lipstick. And they have a lot of really beautiful colors. I'm kind of obsessed with the way that it goes on, and how it feels throughout the day. I'm frequently on Zoom calls with patience. And you know, I like a good bold lip.
Amy: 43:41
Is that what you're wearing now?
Unknown: 43:43
It is what I'm wearing. Yeah, it's
Amy: 43:44
gonna tell you that before that. I love your lips. Yeah,
Unknown: 43:47
this is the shameless color. But it's like a pencil, which initially I didn't. Yeah, I didn't initially love the pencil part, but it helps me apply it exactly where I want it. I get a nice crisp line. And it's got kind of a matte look to it, but it's feels very moisturizing. Unlike the other matte lipsticks. I've tried. I'm kind of obsessed with
Amy: 44:08
it. Like a liner and a lipstick together. It looks like no one really. Yeah.
Unknown: 44:13
I mean, it's like a lipstick that they shaped into a giant toddler crayon.
Amy: 44:17
I guess it looks like
Unknown: 44:19
what you get. I didn't love that part. But the colors are gorgeous. And the way that it goes on and stays on. It doesn't dry out. It doesn't get cracked. It doesn't it's not gross. At the end of the day. I just I really like it.
Amy: 44:31
And it's by far You said it's my target. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, that's a good one. Probably get
Unknown: 44:37
it like Sephora, Amazon, any of those places, right? Yeah. And actually, I think even like Target is carrying Ulta and Ulta carries talks. Right? That's right, and give them target now.
Amy: 44:48
No, I love that. Target. I saw that recently. It's really fun. All right, well, that's an awesome one. We always have a good a good lippie reco and I love the name too.
Unknown: 44:56
Thank you for that review. That was fantastic. And let's go ahead and wrap with our Montra this one's a little lengthy, but I saw it and I just loved it. I think you guys will love it too. So I don't know if it's necessarily a mantra, but we'll see. We'll see what you guys think of it. Be like a tree. stay grounded, connect with your roots, turn over a new leaf bend before you break. Enjoy your unique natural beauty and keep growing. Oh, I love Michelle's love, because that's a mantra. That's really good.
Amy: 45:27
That's, that's great. And that's a good perspective shift like you were just talking about. So with that, thank you, Dr. Koop for being on the show. Again, as our resident. This has been so helpful. I feel like I've been through a session and now I feel very armed with good tools. So I hope our listeners will too. I'm sure they will. And I'm sure they'll want you to come back. So thank you so much for being on Nirvana sisters, and for continuing to inspire us and give us all this amazing insight.
Unknown: 45:57
My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you.
Amy: 46:00
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