Episode 168 - Natasha Brinkman- SHE’S BACK -"From Tretinoin to Growth Factors: The Future of Skincare with Beauty Junkie Monkey (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 168

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of wellbeing and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters-in-law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters family. We are back. with Natasha Brinkman, aka Beauty Junkie Monkey on TikTok and Instagram. We did an episode with Natasha a while back. I was looking, it was like episode 96 and 97. We did a two-parter because we had so much info, but she is back. Natasha, master esthetician, skincare consultant, educator. Welcome back to the show. We love having you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

This is amazing. Always a pleasure to be part of your guys' podcast. So thank you again for having me. Yeah. I just love skincare.

SPEAKER_00:

And your videos just continue to educate. I'm always like, how does she have all these ideas? But then every Every time I watch a video or piece of content that you make, I'm like, oh, that's such a good tip. Oh, that's such a good idea. Like, I just love it so much. I know our community does too. So thanks for being on. And I was saying before that you look fabulous. Your skin is glowing. Your eyes are stunning. Your whole vibe is just

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. I really went for, like I said, the international look. I wanted to kind of go... Plus I came from the gym and I didn't have time to do my hair. So I'm like... I love it.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. I was like threw my hair back today too. So what's been going on with you? Tell us everything. I know I've seen like tons of growth on your Instagram and TikTok and your brand partnerships and all these fun things, but would love to hear what's happening with you.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. Well, yeah, life just gets crazy and crazier. I thought last a couple of years were fantastic and then this year kind of popped up and I'm like oh my gosh. So last year I started taking my master's medical aesthetics because again I have my full esthetician which a lot of people don't understand in the business is that you have people that will either train in one thing like just waxing or just nails or just like one thing but when I took my aesthetics I did all of it. Okay. aestheticians, right? So I was completely full of aesthetics back then. But going from that career to policing now back to, you know, online skincare consultant, kind of a bit of a pivot again in my career. And I felt a little bit out of touch. So what I wanted to do is I went back to school, and I took my master's medical aesthetics. So this is all the advanced techniques. So I could work with a dermatologist or an RN and I could be either their assistant or basically I don't I don't inject, but I can use what they've pulled out of you. So if you wanted to do like a vampire facial, PRP, I could administer that after the fact. So laser treatments, any type of microneedling and so forth. So I went and I did that. On top of that, I did my 30 day skincare challenge, which I love to do every January. Yes, that was amazing. I followed that. Every single day I put out a lesson plan. So it is literally every day I'm trying to teach you to help you build your own skincare routine, because this is what's not taught. Right? So the biggest thing is everybody tells you, oh, this is the best product. This is the best product. Everybody will say that. But the problem is nobody tells you how to use it. So then that way you maximize the results. And there's some ingredients that are really awesome, but they're really active. And you don't want to start pairing them immediately right after you started another active ingredient because it can cause irritation. Some people can get away with it. Most cannot.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. So for our listeners, they could go back on, is it on your Instagram and TikTok, like the 30 days? Yeah. And it's just like step-by-step. So every day you can kind of like start fresh. Because I find that too, even though I have a million products and always trying things, sometimes you forget how to use them or in which order or like what pairs with what. It's complicated.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it can be. It can be. I have to say, and honestly, all these new brands and all these brands that have been coming out, I love testing them and I play with them. So that's the other thing that I'm really adamant about is I make sure that I test everything before I bring it forward on my page. And there's a lot of products that I've tested, especially last year, that fell completely flat. And everybody's like, these are the best. And I'm like, no, it's not. It's average at best. But I don't like to poo-poo other companies because, again, that's not my That's not my angle, right? My angle is to stay positive and tell you what works. There's plenty of people out there that tell you what doesn't work. So I would like to be the other side of the coin. I'm going, this is what works. This is a good place.

SPEAKER_00:

You're like, if I'm not talking about it, that means I don't like it. I'm not a fan. So I recently got, so there was a product that you talked about a while back that I really wanted to try and there was like a, it was sold out for a while and I just got it a couple of weeks ago, the Maylove Peptide Squad, which I love because I was also using your recommendation for like probably the last year or so, the Matrixil and the Agera line, and I would use them both, but this seems like it has both plus more and it's a one-step. Correct.

SPEAKER_02:

So this is the best part about evolving and a lot of my followers and even clients, they're all like, okay, well, why is this not good? It's like, no, no, no, it's still amazing. It's just, this company was working on this product for two years. So Mela, I had the awesome opportunity to talk to their doctor who actually created that formula. Because this is unique. You typically don't use a vitamin C, especially L-ascorbic, with any type of copper because it can have some counterindications. So you can use it with different forms of vitamin C, but L-ascorbic or ascorbic, typically you don't touch with peptides, you don't do it with everything. So I was emailing them and sending them messages left, right, and center, and I know they knew who I was. I love their brand. So they're like, do you want to talk to the formulator? I'm like, yes. Amazing. So I had the awesome opportunity to talk with them. We decided to do a live event. So I was a guest and got a chance to talk and pick her brain and help my viewers understand the peptide squad. But the peptide squad is truly unique because it has your Agera line, which is your neuropeptide, tells the muscles not to move so much. Everybody calls that the Botox in a bottle. Then they have Metrixel. So there's four different versions of Metrixel. So they have your traditional Metrixel 3000. So that's the hardy one. That one is a signaling peptide. So everybody's concerned it doesn't go in. No, no, no, it's not meant to go in. It's a signaling peptide. It sits on tops and sends signals. Tell your skin, help me, I need more collagen. So that's the nice thing about what that product will do. Plus niacinamide, if you ever, as long as you don't have an allergy to it, niacinamide is next to godliness. I call her sporty spice because she shrinks down your pores. She tightens up your pores. She helps balance out the oil and hydration. So if you're dry or if you're oily, she's just amazing. She lightens and brightens. She's an antioxidant. Like I could go on and on and on. So love niacinamide. Then what she did is she added copper peptides. Now, copper, again, if you use it too much in your skin, it can actually have an adverse reaction. It can break it down. But they used a really nice copper blend, and they bound their copper, which maybe for most of us, we're like, well, what does that mean? It means it's not free-floating. You can use it with an L-ascorbic vitamin C, and you can use it with any type of retinoid. So, tretinoin, retinal, or retinol. And so I was just like, oh my god, I can use this both day and night and get all these amazing results. And I forgot to mention, sorry, last ingredient was rice peptides. Rice peptides help to prevent the breakdown of collagen. And the best part is I call this peptide squad like the steel magnolia. of peptides because every single actress in there is. Yes. You get the best thing for you.

SPEAKER_00:

It's just a one stop shop. So like now I'm not putting on like five different layers. I just use that. Now, do you use that before or after a vitamin C or retinol or all those things?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, typically, whenever you're doing any type of layering, the laws of layering are always the same. Thinnest to thickest, water-based first, then creamy, or it's a water-based, kind of serum-y based, then you want to do anything kind of a creamy serum-y, and then creams, and then oils. There's always rules to the exception and you can see which certain one's in. But if your oil is more like that kind of, or sorry, the vitamin C is more in an oil base, that one's going to go on after everything else. So then that way it has time to do its magic. So you don't put it on right out of the gate, you put it on a little bit further on. So whenever you're looking at your skincare product, if you ever get confused, go thinnest to thickest, water-based, cream-based, oil-based.

SPEAKER_00:

And water-based, I know this is a dumb question, but like water-based, so like the Peptide Squad, which is like a blue, ceramic, is that water-based? Yeah, that's a little more water.

SPEAKER_02:

It's more serum-y-esque. I would say that's more of a serum. So if you're using like L-ascorbic acid, vitamin C, like SkinCeutical seems to be a popular one. So if you use that one, you would use that one first, then you would use the Peptide Squad, and then you'd use Moisturizer SPF if you did it during the day.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, it makes sense. And then at night, same philosophy applies. Correct. So I just wanted to shout you out for recommending that product because it saved me a lot of time and thought. I don't have to think about it now. Before, I'm like, wait, let me put all my metrics on. and then my Agera line, and then my vitamins. And now it's just like, I don't have to think about it. I put it on and it's fabulous so far. I'm loving it. I've had it for like a few weeks, so it's so good.

SPEAKER_02:

Wait, it just gets better and better. That peptide squad is just sensational. And like I said, I'm able to build any skincare routine with it. And people who want to do the peptide squad, you want to make sure that you're using it when you need it. So if you're in your 20s, you're not going to need it, my friend. You're really not. But if you're like your mid-30s and up, definitely put it into your skincare routine. It will not

SPEAKER_00:

And it's fine. And is it safe to use every day?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, absolutely. Day and night. Absolutely. Totally safe.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And then I've been hearing you talk about, which I don't know anything about, just I've seen your videos on the anti-age or is that how you say it? That new entourage. What is this and what do we need to know about it?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, that's a whole new level of awesome. That's a whole No, when I went back to school during my practicum in their studio, in their course, they had the entourage and I remember looking at it going, I remember this. I've used this before in my earlier 40s. So this company's been around for over 12 years. And I had some concerns because it has growth factors and cytokines and this is extracted from human bone marrow stem cells. And as soon as you say that, you get all these crazy images of back alley stuff being sold, which of course was not the case at all. And what I really liked is that my instructor, she was so good, talked me through it and how it was done and went on the website and read more about it. What I really want to point out is that this is ethically sourced and they only get it from Sorry, 18 to 24 year olds because you want to have that. That is the peak time where you pull out those communicators and that's what they're doing. They're taking it out of the bone marrow. And by the way, these people are well compensated, so this is a long process. This isn't just some quick thing, just to be clear. And then what they do is they extract the cytokines and the stem cells or the growth factors, pardon me. Those are communicators. That's all they are. So there's no DNA transfer, there's nothing that's going to freak you out. It isn't oncology approved, so this was really important to me. I had skin cancer, I don't want to have anything. Not to mention my husband's been through cancer, so anybody who's been touched by that, we get really nervous when we hear things like that. has been oncology approved. It is also breastfeeding and pregnancy approved. Now I will say the caveat always bring it forward to your doctor. Everybody is different. But before you start it, but I like that they had the approval from the oncology and pregnancy safe. So that was like, So what they did with the entourage, so this is where I would say, this is where skincare will be eventually going. So just to kind of break it down, when you have basic skincare products that you can purchase, you can purchase all of them, you know, through, you know, local drugstores, Sephora, you know, your spas and so forth. But they're the key components, vitamin C, peptides, retinols, and exfoliants. Those are kind of like the pillars, the base. Then what you do is you go up a step if you wanted to do things like treatments where you had PRP plasma-rich platelets, you know, things like that. That's kind of the next level, but that's Not always convenient for people. Not everybody likes needles. Not everybody wants to use that as a procedure. So that one's kind of fallen off to the wayside. It was really big. I think when Kim Kardashian brought that out, I don't know how it was effective, but it's only effective because it's based on how healthy you are. So if you're not great, you're not going to get great results, which again, another limitation. Well, here comes growth factors and cytokines. If you have a human, human to human, they speak. Human and plants, they don't speak. It's like trying to talk to your husband when he's watching the game. There's no communication. I love my husband. But that's what I mean. So when people are like, oh, well, I get mine from plants. then it's just an antioxidant, meaning it's not going to change your skin the same way. So with ATIAGE, they took all your serums that you typically would find in a skincare routine, all your retinoids and your vitamin C that you would see in a two-part system, and then they loaded it up with stem cells and cytokines. And it has been a game changer. What can people expect? Maybe that's the best way to describe it. Um, volume back in the skin. So for people who have had the face dump, this typically happens when you kind of start hitting perimenopause menopause, we lose 30% of our collagen. There was no, you can't control that. It's going to bite. Right. So when that happens, this is an option for you. We also lose the fat pads in our face, so unless you want to gain weight, and who wants to gain weight? Most people do not. So that's what this does, is it tells your skin, it's a communicator, and it tells your stem cells and your cytokines to behave like they did when they were 18 to 24 years old. So that's where the healing comes back in. So your skin is constantly healing, so your skin will get thicker, you'll have more volume. It's actually the nasolabia and the marionette lines, that's the biggest part where the jowls start popping up. As soon as you start noticing that, you might want to start considering the entourage because it's going to pop those right back up. Or maybe do it before. Well, I don't know if you'll see the same results. That's the problem. I did try it in my early 40s and it was like, you know, I didn't appreciate it because I wasn't there. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And now you can actually see the difference.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Huge difference. And what I like about this product is because it's speaking to your skin differently, your results are sensational. The longer you're on it, the better it gets.

SPEAKER_00:

Is it a, um, is it something you do? Is it a night treatment, a morning treatment? Like, is that a cream? Like what's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's simple. You cleanse the one part, the two parts, you put a moisturizer on in the morning SPF at night, you cleanse one, two moisturizer, go to bed.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, wow. And you don't need to put on anything else that that's like we're talking about the peptide squad and all that, like this, like takes all that away and you just take.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, you can add little boosters in there, as I like to call it. So if you wanted a little extra peptides, you can. It doesn't have the copper or like if you're nitpicking and you want to, you know, some people like to do more than just the base. But I would say use it in its purest form at least for three months. Because the results for me, when I was using it, I used it solid.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, you look amazing. Your skin looks incredible. But it always does. But it does have that extra, like, it does have a little plumper and more, I don't know, just lifted.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. That's the entourage. So I was on it for three months. I had a really, really hard time. I tried a different skincare line. I promised them I'd try it. I'm a woman of my word. And within about three weeks, my skin started to regress.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm like,

SPEAKER_02:

Nope. Can't use this. I don't want to sacrifice myself. So we'll see how that goes now. But yeah, it's a game changer. And then of course, a level up from that, which is coming out from stem cells and cytokines will be

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, eczema. So what is that?

SPEAKER_02:

That's a hybrid of growth factors and cytokines. So again, it's communicating to your skin, telling your skin to behave differently, to heal differently. In fairness, I haven't done too much research in that just yet. I'm still getting my hands and my feet under the whole growth factors. And for me, I find the best way to really appreciate a product is to use it, and to feel it. And then I bought a whole bunch, and I gave one to my 77-year-old mom, one to my girlfriend, who's got different skin than me, and then one to my sister, who has more oily, aphnetic skin. And every single one of them, their skin improved, and it looked sensational. So I was shocked. I took a photo of my mom's skin. I also posted it on my Instagram. on all my website, or not website, pardon me, on my Instagram and Facebook and TikTok so people could see. And that's my mom. That's real results from 77-year-old skin. Oh, I can't wait to see it.

SPEAKER_00:

So you've been using it for three months and you're still using it, right? Is it something you just... Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I stopped for, like I said, about three weeks because I needed another brand. So I'm catching back up again. Right. And you're like, oh, I got to go back to it. Yeah. Like, I was just like, I'm so sorry. Like, I even told them, I said, you're up against stem cells and cytokines. Are you sure you want me to tell you?

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Because that's like, it sounds like to your point, like what's starting to happen next, like this trend of like, I don't know what the category is. It seems like it's stronger, but it's not really stronger. It's just like more close to your... More advanced.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, more advanced. I would like to call it more advanced. Now, I want to say the caveat is you cannot get it off of Amazon. You're not going to see social influencers promoting it because you have to be a professional to have access to this. So myself, because of my my training, my business is I do skin care consultations online. And so my my shop, if you will, is unauthorized distributorship.

SPEAKER_00:

OK, so people can buy it from the link off of your socials on your website.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly. Or off my website. Yeah, my website or my shop myself is where I have all my favorites in there. And or if they have a MediSpa in their location that carries the entourage, they can get that one as well. But do not buy it off at Amazon at a complete fakes. And this is not cheap stuff. So I think in the States, it's 220 for both bottles. And in Canada, it's gonna be 300 bucks. So yeah, Right? Yeah. So you have to put into consideration what your budget is. Um, how, you know, are you there yet? I always tell people, you know, use it when you need it, not beforehand because once you start it, it will be very, very, very hard to get off of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And it's like, I'm starting to notice this, which I never had before. Like when I wake up in the morning, cause I must be like pursing my lips at night or something. And then I'm like, what are these lines? Why is it starting to happen?

SPEAKER_02:

But that's the whole thing, right? And I mean, it's not going to make you a 20-year-old. I mean, I think we're all pretty, right? But at the same time, again, my goal is to help you achieve your results, whatever those may be. I have some people, the most important thing to them is melasma. Other people, it's aging. Sometimes it's all three. It's like, well, that limits us because what you do for melasma, that routine is going to be different from aging. You can kind of mix them together, but it can be, I don't want to give them like 16 steps.

SPEAKER_00:

That's ridiculous. Right. You want to make it easy. So Trenton Owen is an example. It's a different category, I guess. How does that compare to something like entourage, if someone's just doing tretinoin at night? I do tretinoin, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, tretinoin is a retinoid, right? So it's the retinoid family. So tretinoin, retinal, retinol. That's how I kind of do it. And then bakuchiol is a nice derivative of it. And basically what they're doing, and if I can simplify it, it's called apoptosis of the cell. It's telling the cell to die off faster. and produce better skin. So it's that stimulation that we're looking for within your skin, because our skin slows down as we age, right? So our skin cycle is typically 28 to 31 days. And when we start aging, it could slow down to 45 days. So when people say, hey, I don't I've used it for two weeks and I see nothing. I'm like, that's not even a skin cycle. You've got to give your skin time to absorb that ingredient, change, and then change together. So what a tretinoid is doing is it's basically killing off the top layer of your skin, forcing the bottom layer to reproduce faster. That's where the irritation, the flakiness, the dryness, it's basically you're killing it off too fast. So that's why people have such a hard issue. And it's so strong. Tretinoin, it's not encapsulated. There's no buffers. It's bazooka-based skin. If you have thick, hardy skin, you can handle it. If you're somebody like me, thin and dry, I tell you, retinals are better. That's where you want to go. But that's one component of how to change your skin. Vitamin C is another component to change your skin. Peptides, another component on how to change your skin. Now we have stem cells and cytokines, another communicator that is very robust. So, all you're doing is you're just taking your pillars and then you're adding an additional boost. Right. So, I guess that's the best way to put it because a lot of people can do tretinoin and they do great with it, but other people cannot. And tretinoin is not going to fill up the marionette lines.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. That's what I was going to ask. So, I'm fine doing tretinoin. It doesn't bother me. I mean, I don't do it every night, so maybe that's why. But sometimes I get a little dry flakiness. I feel like sometimes like you would put out a video like do you feel like it's plateaued and I don't know if it's plateaued like I feel like I need something else to like judge the skin to like to your point like give it more volume because it's starting to like come to you know so like what can make it more to your point, like more volume, thicker, etc. And I feel like the no one is more of just like wrinkle kind of, I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

It does actually help with the collagen production. So one thing that happens when we age as well, it just really sucks, is that the top layer of our skin gets thicker, but it's like the dead, dehydrated, dry stuff. And then bottom layer, actually, we lose that collagen. So yeah, underneath it, and that's where the volume, we lose that volume loss, right? So that's when it comes in, we're like, oh, that's not what I want to see. So when we're using, like I said, the tretinoin, we're stimulating that collagen to reproduce faster. And if you introduce it nice and slow into your routine, it's like learning how to run. If you go too fast, too much too fast, it's like, hey guys, wait up, I'm not there yet. Your body hasn't trained to turn over that with. So if you're finding that you're using tretinoin every single night and you can slather it on and nothing's changing, then I would recommend going up to the entourage. Got it.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. That's helpful because I think a lot of our listeners probably do some form of retinol or tretinoin or something. And this sounds like it's like the next level up, which is really good to think about and exciting. I love all these advancements in skincare. It's just like seems to be evolving. Just exponentially.

SPEAKER_02:

It's sensational. I'm honored to be alive in this time where we have these options, right? And it's exciting. I've had so many different things now because of the way that things are moving. You know, I even had PRP done on my knee. So if anybody has that in their knee or any injuries.

SPEAKER_00:

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, they pulled it out of my arm, they spun it, and they put the plasma-rich platelets, and they just injected into my knee, and I have no knee issues right now. Wow. So medically, we're really evolving, and if you can kind of get over the ick factor of it, you know, kind of make your peace with it. They're injecting hyaluronic acid into joints now. My father had to have a hip replacement, but while he's waiting, it was just bone on bone. So what they did to try to alleviate that is they take hyaluronic acid and put it in there just to help that cushion. It's incredible what is available nowadays, but it's also making sure that you're purchasing what you need when you need it.

SPEAKER_00:

And from the right people, because I know there's so many bad things on Amazon. I don't buy a lot of skincare on Amazon because it makes me nervous.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't buy any hair off Amazon. That's a hard no for me because I have no clue where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. It's scary. It's scary. And is there any side effects from the entourage? Like do you get dry or anything like you would get with a retinol? Like what could people expect from that?

SPEAKER_02:

So if you are prone to acne or breaking out, you definitely will have a bit of a breakout. It usually subsides within two weeks. So again, my sister was acne prone and so forth. She broke out first couple of times, looked at me sideways and said, just push through it, just push through it. And then after her, her pores were so tight, I was shocked. Wow. I was shocked. I'm like, holy crap, you look like a porcelain doll. And she's 55 to put things in perspective. So if you are prone to breakout, you will breakout. It is rosacea safe. But again, rosacea is a green wiener. So just be mindful of that, that you probably won't have an issue. But if you're nervous, just go nice and slow. And then of course, everybody else from aging to dry skin, there is a healthy amount of Bacupyl in it, which is a retinoid derivative. So yes, you can dry down a little bit, especially if you try to pair your retinoid with it. Because I know a lot of people have asked me this, can I use my retinoid or my tretinoin with it? Yes, you can. I don't know if you actually need it. Right. Because the product is, like I said, the longer you use it, the more skin cycle you have of that ingredient. Right. It's almost duplicative. Yeah. It's almost like you don't need extra. Have I tried a retinol with it? Yes. Did it Bonus, I think so. I thought I looked sensational. But now this go around, I'm going to do it without it and just see how she rolls. Because again, it's something I can always add in. Exactly. But she can be a little bit dry. And it's really important if you do suffer from dry skin, always use a little bit of oil in your routine somewhere. Just because it's going to help keep you plump and juicy. And you can use a little light oil during the day and you can use a heavier oil at night. I love skin glazing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I was going to say, what kind of oil do you like? Do you have any brands that you recommend? Oh God, I love so many.

SPEAKER_02:

That's the problem. I've tried so many. I love a good blend, like in its simpler form, it's nice. So for one, I like putting just a hint, like one drop underneath my makeup. It'll make your skin look flawless. You want to use a nice light oil. I love Diana Madison. She's very like, she's got the prickly pear in her formulations. She has not only the nicest oil to use that for, but also the best masks I've ever used. And there's another one. Oh gosh, what's it called? It's a purple bottle. It'll come to me in a minute, but that one was sensational under makeup as well. If you're more on a budget kind of idea, oh, Kiehl's. Kiehl's recovery, sensational. Nighttime, for me, I need something really heavy, so I'll do the Herbivore Phoenix Oil. That's my holy grail. Another really good one is the Pharmacy. I believe it's Honey Halo Glow something or other. That one's really rich. I love that one. It just sucks everything in and it keeps the skin really, really healthy.

SPEAKER_00:

We just put that on at the end to give it a nice

SPEAKER_02:

And you pat it on. You don't want to rub your oils because it can break down. Well, not break down, but yeah. No, I would say it breaks down some of the other products, especially depending on how they're formulated. So I always say, if you have oil, just pat it on your skin. And a good trick that I want to tell everybody out there, I know the nighttime is the hardest time to do your skincare routine. And I just want to put this out there. Do your skincare routine when you're done for the day. If you're done at three o'clock and you're like, it's going to be zombie day, pajamas, bras off, let's go. Just get it over with. Exactly. Just do it. And then that way when you're, you know, you sit on the couch, you're like, I am done. Perfect. Then you can go to bed. You don't have to worry about your skincare. So even if you use an oil or any of these other products, it's kind of taking care of that. Well, is it going to go on my pillow? Well, yeah, if you do it right before bed, as long as you sleep on your back, you're going to get some on your pillow. But yeah, when you're home for the night, just do it early. My little two cents. Do it as soon as you get home.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, good idea. Exactly. When you put on the sweats, it's time to do your routine and then you're done and you can have your glass of wine. But she gears, what are your thoughts on, because I've been testing a couple like toners, like Korean skincare type stuff. Have you been in, have you tested that world of all of those brands or what are your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, lots. I get lots. Well, Depology is Korean. I don't know if you guys realize that, but it's Korean. They're one of my absolute favorites because, again, they're independent, so they have really great companies. I did a video on Body, and there's one, I can't even remember the name, I'm so sorry, but it's a really good exfoliant, especially if you have ingrowns. I don't know about you guys, but I shave my bikini line. I don't have And sometimes I get ingrowns or, you know, and that little peel was so good because you could put it in your bikini line. It was so gentle. It didn't, and then that way I didn't get any bumps. So there's lots of amazing products from the Korean line, but I will say this, the caveat is still the same as any other products out there. There's a lot of okay products. You know, so just kind of keep that into consideration just because it's Korean doesn't mean it's the holiness of holy. It's just a different format and they have different techniques. They have different ingredients. But at the end of the day, does it change your skin any differently than another brand? I don't know. It would depend.

SPEAKER_00:

Everybody's different. It probably goes into the four pillars that you were talking about. It's just another brands, but yeah. Correct. Another formulation.

SPEAKER_02:

But if I find something I love damn straight, I'm going to talk about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I got to share it with my friends. Yes, we need to know all the things. And then what are you seeing? I know you do a lot of private skin care consultations or people obviously DM you and stuff. What are people asking about? I know the trend of these growth factors and all of that is coming out, but what are people asking? What do they want to see? What are they having issues with? Yeah, how to build a routine.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's the biggest mistake that we're seeing in my industry, in the aesthetic industry. We're not teaching people how to build a skincare routine. And just to kind of pull the curtain back and share a little bit, when I grew in my aesthetics, all my online, my skincare routines and so forth was all from the company. So, you know, you work at a spa, the company rep comes and tells you all about their product, how absolutely amazing it is. And then, you know, when you work with different companies, they carry different brands. And then when you're recommending these products to your clients and they're coming back and they're giving you feedback, that's the best information you can get because now you're knowing, well, that's not working. So first you have to flush out if they're using it right, because 9 out of 10 times there is a bit of a user that we have to kind of make sure that people are using it properly. But the second component is not every skincare product will work for that person. The active ingredients in there are not in there for that person and that skin type and that issue. And we're not teaching that. Right. And that's where I think a lot of people are getting frustrated because you go to a company, yeah, they'll build you a skincare routine. They know nothing about you. They don't look at your skin. They don't know your history. They ask no questions. It's very basic. So for some, that works. People with normal skin can pretty much get away with almost anything. But if you're like me, dry, dehydrated, you have rosacea, you have oily skin, completely different story. Right. Everyone's different. I think what's coming down the pipeline, especially on TikTok, you have a lot of formulators, and they're telling you, actually, no, you can pair all these things together. I get nervous when they say that because you're going to have somebody that's going to pair an exfoliate with an acidic form of vitamin C and burn the lips. And I really want to say, just because one person can do it does not mean you can do it. And so what I would like to do is I would like to see the dermatologists, the estheticians, and the formulators come together and provide information. I feel we're missing that key component. I consider myself a bridge between the dermatologist and uh the the formulators because what I do for myself is I research every product and then if I have an opportunity I will talk to the actual formulators at that company right and I talk to them about how do you formulate because one formulator will say no you can do this and another formulator will say no you can do it that way it's very interesting yeah it's there's a lot of where we there's a lot of stuff in between that we're not agreeing on so and then it's based on experience bias opinion

SPEAKER_00:

It's a lot. It's what's trending. Yeah. Well, that's why we're lucky. We have people like you that can give us all the correct information and then can come on podcasts like Nirvana Sisters and give us all the things we need to know because you're very trusted and we appreciate it. Okay, I could go on all day but I want to give you time back, but I have a last question for you and this is a beauty question because of course we always have to do a beauty question. I saw you had a video and I've noticed your lashes are gorgeous and you've been using method lashes I saw, which I hadn't heard of. I played around with lashes for a while. I'm not wearing them now, but sometimes I'll throw them on again and then I saw the method and I was like, oh, I want to hear about those.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my God. I'm using them 99.999 percent of the time. I was actually ordering them before we- Oh, that's so funny. Because I ran out. So method lashes, actually my girlfriend, I can't take any credit for it. She was the one wearing them. I'm like, God, your lashes look so good. Did you get them done? And she's like, no method lashes. You actually put them on underneath your lashes. Yeah. What? Like, no way. And I mean, again, when I did my aesthetic training, I actually learned how to put every single individual last moment. I hated it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it takes forever.

SPEAKER_02:

I did not like that and paying $200 every two weeks to get them redone. Yeah, I used to do it. It's a nightmare. I did that for like two or three months and I'm like, what am I doing? This is ridiculous. Yeah. But I like the convenience of them, right? So when she got me on method lashes, they're broken up into four or five different sections. And what you do is you just put the glue underneath your clean lashes. And then you put like a little bit of glue on there's like a little A little edge, I guess it is. And then what you do is you don't put it on the actual waterline, just above the waterline and then type it in and then you put all three or four or five versions. You just kind of work from the outside in and then they give you a sealant. And what I like to do is I like to take the tweezers and I put the sealant between the tweezers and then I squish it. Okay. Those will last me seven to 10 days.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Okay. So they're similar. I used to use, or I still have them, but I haven't used them in a while, like Lashify or Headcandy is another brand. Similar. But I want to try those because they look like really good ones and they can last seven to 10 days. That's good. I always have a hard time washing my face when I have lashes on because I feel like around the eyes, it's hard to do eyeshadow and stuff because you feel like it's hard to get off. You have to be very careful. That's the only thing that bugs me about wearing lashes. But I was just thinking to myself, I'm like, I got to put them on again because sometimes when I don't want to put on makeup, if you just have those lashes on, you look ready to go. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

You can go to the gym. You don't care. I know. little SPF and tinted SPF in your lashes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you're light like me so I have lashes but you can never see them because they're so light so I always have to put on mascara or I look so washed out and I was just thinking to myself I'm like I gotta do this again because it's like getting annoying.

SPEAKER_02:

It's so worth it. I'll tell you the first time you do it it's gonna be a hot mess you know you don't want to be doing it the first day when you have like something really big you're not you know it's like everything else.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a learning curve.

SPEAKER_02:

A little bit of a learning curve, but oh my god, I love them. I'm kind of obsessed with them. Because again, I can wear them for a week. I can sweat in them. I can do everything that I need to do with them. They don't blow off. Sometimes if I use too much oil close to my eye, it will break down the glue. But the glue is more like a rubber base, so it doesn't hurt your lashes at all. It's very flexible. So I just tell everybody, when you're washing your face, I hope you're using a face cloth, because that little face cloth, if you wrap it around your finger and you just kind of glide it, it won't touch them. You'll be just fine because remember they're attached underneath. Right. You just kind of glide them over top and then you can just do like a little either a q-tip or a gentle gentle rub on top to make sure if you've got any like eye shadow on top of the lashes just to gently get those off. Yeah. And they're affordable. You get three lashes for 30 bucks. Yeah, that's good. Three sets. So you buy the box and you get three sets of lashes. So like that's three weeks worth of lashes for 30 bucks. Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_00:

I love them.

SPEAKER_02:

I also have them on Shop My Shelf as well. Okay, good. We'll check that out. Anytime I love something, it goes on the Shop My Shelf because, I mean, I had When I start doing my online skincare routines, my clients usually ask me, hey, I'm done this moisturizer, what's next for my skin type? And when you have a hundred people asking you the same question, you're like, I need to design something for that. That's what Shop My Shelf is. It's basically a hub where all my links are, including the online shopping method last year and all your traditional stuff that you can find, Saravay. A lot of people like to use Shop My Shelf as their guide.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. I was just going to say that because everything's vetted by you, so you don't have to wonder. It's like, okay, we know it's all good. It's just a matter of what we need and what's going to work best for us.

SPEAKER_02:

and what's affordable, because I have different affordabilities on there. It's curated based on skin type. So if you kind of like, oh, I'm dry, then you go into the dry and you'll see all the different cleansers, all the moisturizers, all the oils, all the things that can work for you or skin type, and you can build your own routine based off of it.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that. Okay. We'll link to it for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's for everybody. Initially, that was just going to be for my clients, but then I had so many people ask, and I'm like, well, here, build your own routine. If that helps you, great. Quick thing, if you do shop off my shelf, I do get a small commission. As you should. Want to be honest, you know, I appreciate people that you do take it, but I also go to the manufacturers and try to get discount codes for you guys. I do my best to help. So everybody, everybody wins in that, in that scenario, but you don't have to, you can use it as a reference. If you want to run to Sephora, the shopper's drug mart and pick up what you need. Yeah, by all means, go right ahead. And then I also, what I did new this year, which I was working on last year is I have now online skincare routines available for purchase.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's new.

SPEAKER_02:

That is very new. I worked my butt off. So what I have is advanced aging skincare routines for oily skin, dry skin, rosacea, delicate skin, oily skin, acnetic skin, and I'm putting out the entourage. So if you want to get into the entourage and you want to know what you can pair with it and what you how to build it into your routine. I actually built a specific routine for it. It also includes microneedling. So if you want to get some extra microneedling. I also did an advanced peptide solution. So that would be one for people who don't need the anti-age yet, but they want to do as many peptides as they can. And I give you examples, my top three, so you can pick some of your best choices. So you get not only the program, but exactly how to build it. And if you have ever any questions about your routine, all you have to do is email me and I can answer any questions for people who've built their own. And they just have like, can I do this and this? Yeah, absolutely. You're good to go.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So where can people find this? Is this on your website?

SPEAKER_02:

That's on my website, www.beautyjm.com. Thank you, Amy.

SPEAKER_00:

Love it. A little self-promotion there. And it's good too, because I know it's really hard to get an appointment with you. So like this is like a nice alternative and then that's great that you can answer questions if there are questions that come up.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Once you purchase the routine, if you have a question, I am happy to answer them because I understand there's only one of me. So I've opened up as much as I humanly can, but I'm trying to do education routines, answer questions. It's a lot of work. So a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you for your time and for being on the show again. We want to have you back as many times as you want to come, because every time I learn something new and you're just so just Your knowledge is so deep, but it's so helpful for people like me and our community who is like, you know, they know a little bit, but to be able to get deep into it and to really understand it and to know what works and doesn't work and to, you know, do things slowly and carefully is really important. So appreciate you being here as always.

SPEAKER_02:

Love it and I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to tell people like there are you can afford to skin at any age don't worry about that and just know that you have options and just be very mindful of what are you trying to do with your skincare routine and then purchase based on that. Yeah. So the influence of influencers and I know I'm technically one of them now but ask yourself what does this product do for me if this is all about like lightening and brightening your skin and that's not your concern, don't get that product. You don't need it. Exactly. Is it just a moisturizer? A really nice moisturizer? Is there any actives in there? If there's no actives, then it's just an expensive moisturizer. There's nothing in it that's going to change your skin.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. I always joke around like all these younger people, like in their 20s, like I feel like skin care has gotten so big over the last five years or so that like all these young people now, by the time they're older and in our age arena, they're going to look amazing because when I was young, I had no routine, didn't even think about it. And now there's so much education that all these people are really taking care of their skin. By the time they get to be older, they're going to look amazing. Yeah. Because they've been doing it all along versus me who was in the sun and damaging my skin for however long I was doing that for. Didn't we all do that?

SPEAKER_02:

Maybe oil on a redhead, bad idea, I regret it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm like, did I wear SPF every day? No, it didn't even occur to me.

SPEAKER_02:

It wasn't a thing. No, we didn't realize that. We knew it wasn't great, but we didn't care. I don't know why I wanted that LA glow. I never got the glow. I just got freckles and then eventually skin cancer.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, me too. I've had a lot of basal cells, so I'm in the shade and sunblock every day, but that doesn't happen until you're older. In my 20s, I wasn't. Exactly. We didn't know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So much has changed. And that's the best part is that the education is out now and it's exciting. It's really, really exciting. I'm I'm loving this. It's great time to be in the field.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Thank you, Natasha, for being on the show, as always. And we'll see you soon. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 157 - Organizing Secrets for a Clutter-Free Home with Ana Oliveira (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast episode 157.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:28] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show, Nirvana Sisters family. I am so excited. We are so excited, Katie and I, to have Anna Oliveira with us today. We have been dying to have a show about organizing and how we organize our homes, which then helps us organize our lives. And we found Anna actually through Kat Ashmore because she has Kat's house. And I was like, okay, she looks amazing. So we reached out and we're so glad to have you here with us today. Anna, welcome to the show.

[00:59] Ana Oliveira: Thanks for having me. This is so exciting. I have listened to one of the latest podcasts and it's been really wonderful to get to know you guys a little bit more and your guests.

[01:13] Amy Sherman: So thank you so much. Well, for our audience, we'll give a little bit of a bio on Anna so you all can get to know her a little bit. But Anna founded top team more than a decade ago when she was pregnant with her first daughter. While she began with a cleaning business, Anna was inspired by her own life experience to expand into home organization. She's a mom of two, wife, founder and lead organizer of top team Connecticut, organizing services, serving Connecticut and beyond today. And I have a quote that I pulled, which I thought was very relevant that you sent over. I was just. I was just an overwhelmed mom that could never pass the kitchen when it came to organizing my home. A tired mom who decided to stop negotiating the non negotiable, the control I have over my physical space. Anna derives great pleasure helping her clients restore peacefulness and order to their busy lives. Watching them fall in love with their homes again and have a space where their families can enjoy life and thrive is the best testimonial I'll ever get. She says. So love that. And I so excited to chat with you today.

[02:13] Ana Oliveira: Yeah, same.

[02:14] Katie Chandler: Thanks for being here.

[02:16] Ana Oliveira: Thank you.

[02:18] Katie Chandler: Okay, should we kick it off with our nirvana of the week? Amy?

[02:22] Amy Sherman: We should. We haven't done this in a while. I'm going to flip it to you, katie, so I can.

[02:27] Katie Chandler: I know. I was just thinking about it and I think last weekend. Well, today. What's today? Today's Friday. So this last Sunday, I guess we can still consider it part of this week, right? This past Sunday, we had such a great family day. My daughter didn't have to go to hebrew school in the morning. So we got to like get up and spend the whole day together. So we got out the door at 10:00 a.m. Went to breakfast, and the next thing I knew, we spent the entire day out. We were just like shopping around, running around town, and then we had lunch out and then we went and had ice cream on the water. And then we came home and I, for whatever reason, just wanted to get in my yard and start like pulling weeds. So we played outside for 2 hours. It was just such a good family day. I don't know, it was like, yeah, we don't have days like that all the time on the weekend. It was so nice. What about you?

[03:17] Amy Sherman: So nice. I would say I had more of a gratitude moment this week, so. My son recently suffered a concussion. He's okay. It's just like, needs a lot of time to heal. And I've been feeling really grateful lately for the support that he's gotten at school and the support from his doctor. Cause everyone's just been really patient and helpful and helping him to get better. So I just feel really grateful that I have their support and they're really helping him to be set up for success. So that's kind of my nirvana of this week in the last few weeks. What about you, Anna?

[03:54] Ana Oliveira: I had several moments this week which was, I'm so grateful for. It's always nice when you have more to thank for than to ask for, I guess. But we got to help one of our, one of our clients who we've been in touch for a while, but they had water issues and we finally get to set up days and, you know, to help him move a few things in his basement. But little did I know. So I met him a couple weeks ago and then we finally got to go see him and execute the project this week. But I didn't have the correct like scoop of the job until we actually got our hands on. And we are used to do different, you know, projects, but this one was like years and years of waiting for this moment to happen on his end. He just didn't know that until we actually went. So the text I got the next day, it was like 8 hours of work straight up, you know, moving up and down the stairs, five different organizers. And I got the text the next day, like the most beautiful thank you note I have gotten in a long time. Just expressing he's in his late seventies, he's not young, you know, it was a huge project that he couldn't have done himself. And it was just like a really, you know, gratitude moment for me. It was nice to hear that you can still, you know, make a change out there, even if, you know, it was a really beautiful moment. I didn't expect to get a thank you note right after. I usually get Google reviews and emails later, but this was like the next day and it was, it was amazing.

[05:45] Katie Chandler: That's nice. He was impacted clearly by everything he did. That's so great.

[05:50] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[05:50] Katie Chandler: I would imagine your job, your job must be very rewarding in that sense. So, like, as soon as it's over, the gratification is really there, right?

[05:59] Ana Oliveira: Exactly. And this now most of our project, like 99% of our project, we like to call it one day transformation because we get to start and finish on the same day. This was just like after years and years of working with people, you do. This is a service that when you reach out, you're already overwhelmed. You cannot wait for, you know, for us to start and you can't wait for the whole process to be done with. So we found over the years that the most of our problem, 94% of our clients are repeat clients. They come back for more areas they gift family members. But that instant gratification of, okay, she's going to start at 09:00. By 630, I don't know, 05:00 some days it's going to be completely done. So it is pretty amazing and rewarding to. These are projects that people have been pushed and waited for. Like, we have clients that have been in the same home for over 40 years.

[07:02] Amy Sherman: Wow.

[07:03] Ana Oliveira: Yeah.

[07:05] Amy Sherman: Okay, so let's get into it in terms of organizing. So give us kind of your organizing 101. Like, what are some tips and trip, I can't speak today. Tips and tricks and best practices. Like when you're starting to organize a space.

[07:24] Ana Oliveira: I often like to refer our services or even myself. Like when you, when you call someone an organizer, you always picture like holding acrylic products and coming into your house with a bunch of bags and trying to implement all of these products, right. But we have shift a little bit over the last few years because I noticed that what people really crave, although the marketing today, like you open instagram, you do see beautiful spaces with not always attainable results. Right? Because you have a different lifestyle, different family, different budget and all that kind of stuff. So we do like to call ourselves as simplifiers because that's exactly what we do when we come in or our client to our client, into our clients homes, and we develop different systems, is really to simplify their home, if anything, including products is coming complicated the process. We just, you know, we move away from that and try to restart the project. But one of the best tips that I always like to start with, because our focus is to really simplify, I always like to say and start every project. Like, if someone calls me and say, hey, I only need you to come and bring beautiful products and labels, I'm like, mm, mm, mm. I can't do that because the first step and the, the most impactful step is really like, purge first, organize less. You need to go over everything you have first, one by one. And that's why our process is quick, because we're used to it. If you try to do yourself, you're probably gonna take, you know, forever. There is sentimental items that it might take you longer to make decisions on, but we always start with, you have to sort everything you have first, categorize, and then you make decisions on it. Focus is always to simplify, and then we come up and beautify things, but always start with purging.

[09:36] Amy Sherman: Yeah. And that's always the hard part. And do you recommend, like, taking everything out of the space or staying in the space and, like, you know, I know people have different philosophies there, right.

[09:47] Ana Oliveira: I always feel like that's, if you pull everything out, it won't make me overwhelmed. It actually makes me really excited when I do that. But oftentimes, whenever we. So we arrive at 09:00, typically at jobs, and I'm like, most of our clients work full time, but if there is a project that we kind of need some decision making, I always recommend they're being available. They don't have to hold, hold hands with us. But I'm always like, give me an hour, and the place is going to look like a disaster, like a bomb went off. But I promise it won't look like this by 04:00. So it will make you very overwhelmed if you pull everything out. That's why it's highly recommend to have a professional with you who can actually see the final picture. But if you do it yourself, I always recommend if you open a closet, if you open your linen closet and you look at all these, you know, different size sheets and towels and medicine and all that kind of stuff, only pull out what you know, you're getting rid of. If you're up for the project, for the whole project, pulling things out and going one by one, make sure you have time, make sure you have music on, and make sure, you know, don't we underestimate how much time things take? And we often want things like this because we see before and afters, and we're so used to the instant gratification. Right. You see the before picture and then you see the after. There's a lot of that needs to happen in between. So don't underestimate the time. Make sure you have enough time to dedicate to that chore or process.

[11:32] Katie Chandler: How do you help clients decide what to purge and what not to purge? If you have somebody that is really having a hard time letting go of things, how do you get them there?

[11:44] Ana Oliveira: It depends. We always try to find the root of the attachment first. Right. We do a lot of state organizing where there is a lot of sentimental value involved, but we often purge pantries where there is absolutely no sentimental involved, but there is the monetary involvement. Right. The guilt of getting rid of things, the guilt of spending and then tossing things. And I always like to remind clients one thing. If you have a hard time letting go of things because of the monetary value, have in mind that the money that you have spent left your bank account the minute that you purchase. Not when you're getting rid of, not when you're donating, not when you're selling. I mean, some people do make a portion of that money, but you have to have that in mind, and that actually helps you purchase and spend consciously. Because I feel like when you know that your money is gone the minute you purchase, you have a better idea. Okay. I'm not like, Amazon is so quick that we buy things, even if we don't use it. Let's just be honest. But we all do. Right? But I always like to remind clients this. There. If there is sentimental value, I try to remind them that there is other, different, many different ways that you can still treasure that moment or that item in different ways than just, uh, taking up precious real estate of your current home.

[13:30] Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's a good way to put it. I am like, I'm one of those people that everything looks really, really neat from the outside. Like, you walk in my house, like everything's where it should be, always in the same place. Like, I'll have a thing, sit in the same place for a decade. That's where I want it.

[13:53] Ana Oliveira: But then, like, you mean decorative items.

[13:55] Katie Chandler: Yeah, decorative items. Exactly. So, like, everything looks intentional and neat and tidy. But then if you open a closet or a drawer or my office, it's a disaster. An absolute bomb disaster. I mean, I can't. I'm surrounded by disastrous drawers right now in my closet. It's very. It's overwhelming. Like, I don't know. Occasionally I'll organize something, but I'm only going to organize it if it is something that is constantly, like, in my life. Like my daughter's closet, she's very messy. I will take the time to organize her closet because we're constantly going back and forth to that closet. But, like, these cabinets and drawers in my office, I open them twice a year.

[14:41] Amy Sherman: I know. I feel the same. I totally feel the same way. I call it organized chaos. Like, I know where everything is, and it looks somewhat organized, but there's, like, a lot of stuff. And you're right. Cause I've had, like, on my list to clear my cabinet drawers in my office for, like, a year, and I still haven't done it. Cause to your point, I open it, like, twice a year, and I'm like, oh, I need to organize this. And then I, like, close it, and I'm like, okay, bye.

[15:05] Ana Oliveira: And that. That goes back to where I started because I remember. So I had. I have two girls, and they are two years apart. So for. For a couple of years, I basically had two babies at the same time. My home to manage, a business to manage, you know, along up a lot of other things. And I just felt like I was always, like, running in circles. I could put up a really nice makeup. I like to call it makeup because that's how my house used to look. Like. Like, you would walk in. Like you said, everything had a place, and everybody thought that things were actually organized because they were behind doors. Until a day that I realized that, I was like, okay. So I feel like I'm running in circles. If I'm not home, I'm thinking about the things that needs to be done. There's always a lot of noise if I'm home or even if I'm outside the house. I'm never full. My house could have been the cleanest. Like, from top to bottom, the cleanest. But I knew exactly where the mess was, and that was always in the back of my head. Like, I was always being called if I couldn't, you know, I couldn't play with my kids because there was so much noise around that needed to be, you know, spaces that needed to be dialed in and noises that really had to be muted for me to focus on other things, like, you know, like my business and other things in life. So they really. It is life changing once you get to mute that noise and really, like, enjoy your home. I feel like our homes are definitely.

[16:44] Amy Sherman: Like, frees up that space in your head. Like, mentally, you can just kind of relax.

[16:49] Ana Oliveira: Absolutely. I have a client who used to live down the street from my house until last. Until last November. They decided to move, and she called me up yesterday. I was at work. I was like, I'll call you. Because we became really good friends. And by the time I call her back, she was crying. She was, like, sobbing. She's like, I'm not used to the new space. You transformed my life when I was, you know, in Connecticut, and I'm not used to having more space than I used to have. I'm completely overwhelmed. I felt like I was focusing on so many great things when I was. My house was completely dialed in, and now I'm just trying to figure it out. This whole new layout and this going back to, like, I think going back to where I was is even harder than staying stuck. Cause she was stuck, you know, for a long time. So it is life changing. It is a lifestyle. Living with less, knowing exactly what you have, tracking what you bring into your home. This is all lifestyle that makes your life so much simpler and so much easier to manage.

[18:07] Katie Chandler: What freaks me out is so, all right, we get to the point of everything's organized. How do I maintain it? That's what scares me, because I've tried. I've done this. My old house, I had a really big pantry, and I took the time once to do all the organizing, and I got the glass jars, and I poured all the things in, and, like, it looked very nice, and I had the baskets. But maintaining that every when, every week when the groceries come in and all that was just so not feasible. And that's just the pantry, like, thinking about closets and all that. What are your tips for maintaining it?

[18:40] Ana Oliveira: Okay, so, number one, although the glass jars and the baskets might seem really appealing, it may have not been the right system for you because you found that little difficult level of difficulty to maintain having weekly resets. And we like to call it sometimes on my stories, I'll pop in, and I'm like, oh, I'm in the middle of my weekly reset, which is basically, like, at this point, my house only needs reset. And it's been for the last 810 years. Right? Those are just quick extra minutes. So let's say if you struggle with maintaining the pantry, you know that when groceries come in, you need that extra five minutes to decant things. Because if you're in the rush, like, there. I like to joke that there is only one thing that makes me really messy, and I can be really messy, is hurry. I can be. If I'm in the rush. I can be a tornado if I'm in the hotel room and I need to get ready. I always hope that nobody comes into my room because that's my worst. Like, if I. If you make me rush, you bet everything is going to be, like, a disaster. So if you know this about yourself, it's nice to know that you need that extra time to decant things and make sure that labels are always, like, your best friend, knowing where everything is. Labels are pre made decisions in any space. You don't have to think about it. You don't have to make that decision. So knowing where things need to go, it's always time saving. But that's a little trick that you do have to pay attention. If something's not working, it doesn't mean it's the wrong system, but it may not be the right system for you, for your home, for your space.

[20:32] Katie Chandler: I didn't even know there were different types of organizing systems.

[20:36] Ana Oliveira: Yes, and that's why I like.

[20:38] Amy Sherman: Katie's gonna be calling you after this. She lives in Connecticut. I live in Connecticut.

[20:42] Ana Oliveira: Yeah.

[20:42] Katie Chandler: You might need to have an appointment.

[20:45] Ana Oliveira: That's why I would like to meet clients prior to project dates. We don't simply, like, show up. Let's say you schedule with us and we're just gonna show up and organize your pantry. I do like to know clients beforehand. Yeah.

[20:59] Amy Sherman: I have a question. So this was one that I've been putting off for a very long time, is my closet. So I know I need to get rid of things, but, like, again, I walk in there and I'm just like, so overwhelmed of, like, where to start. So what are your recommendations for cleaning the closet, getting rid of stuff, and actually the way, a good way to organize the closet.

[21:20] Ana Oliveira: Okay.

[21:21] Amy Sherman: Closed closet. I mean, like in bedroom closet, that kind of thing, like clothes, shoes, bag, all that.

[21:26] Ana Oliveira: Okay. I like to say that if you're struggling with your closet, your problem, your problem is actually lives in the laundry room, not in the closet, because oftentimes what happens is. And that can happen to anyone. Right? Again, if you're rushing, if you don't have a system for laundry days or laundry, or if you never finish, because we tend to do laundry. My mom used to joke because she's like, I don't know why you guys take so long to do something that a washing machine does the heavy bulk of the work. So it doesn't make sense. That takes three days for you to put clothes away when you haven't even washed it. The machine did. And drive. So, so the problem always starts there. So. So if you don't have a system for your, for your laundry days, there is a very high chance that your closet will be overflowing, messy again if you're not, you don't, if you don't have a good time management for when you're getting ready. Right. I do need extra time because not I'm not in my best. So I do need that extra time to try things on and see what would fit better or if I'm in the rush, there is clothes that it's probably going to land on the floor. So if you want to start organizing your closet, I always recommend getting a clothing rack. Put it outside your closet. Pull things out by category so I can simply pull everything out at once. But I do recommend, if you're doing yourself, let's say all your sweaters come out, purge those sweaters, you're done with that category. Next up, jeans and pants. Pull them out. Purge. Make sure that you do check if they have stains, if they have been, if they have seen better days, if you have more duplicate of that same item, because it does happen that you would buy because you couldn't find the one you had, so you bought a different one. And also the monetary value again goes back. I had pair of jeans in my closet for a long time that I don't think it will ever, ever fit me again. But sometimes, right. But have in mind that again, the price that you paid, the money left when you purchase. So let that go. Move on. Purchase new stuff. Shopping is fun and it would always be fun, but it's a lot more fun when you bring home an item that you love and you worked hard for, but you have a designated place for it. So we often see high value items that have no place to go until we actually organize that space, obviously. But you can tell when, when you run out of surface in a closet, floors becomes your surface, right? And if you look, when we usually when we come in into a messy closet, first thing you look is like, where is, you know, the high value item so we can display and showcase those special things. But if everything is on the floor, you can't really tell what was $10 and what was $5,000. So you do want to make sure you go through everything you have in categories so you're not overwhelmed but really keep things you love and you actually wear.

[25:03] Katie Chandler: Do you suggest like hanging things a certain way or should some things be folded and not hung? Like, is that part of the process or is it more of the person's space dictates certain how things are done.

[25:19] Ana Oliveira: Both we do. A space actually does tell you a lot of what you can and you can't do. Not everyone has a, you know, a walk in closet with 20 different size drawers and tons of space to hang. I do have to say, if you do struggle with folding and doing laundry, you know, in general, I do recommend hanging. Hanging is one step down from folding. Right. Like, my kids, most of their clothes are. Are in hangers because they actually, I do have them to put their clothes away now. They're old enough, so I know that folding will take an extra step. I don't want them to feel frustrated, because I will probably go and check if they did it perfectly. So to avoid all of those things, we do like to hang things as long as hanging. Try to group them in categories just to make your decision easier in the morning. But it does. The space will tell you exactly. Some people have tons of shelving, but they have very little spaces for hanging. So that says you might have to fold your sweaters, you might have to fold your shirts. Some clients don't have any drawers at all, so adding a dresser in the room is also a solution. If you don't have any drawers in your closet, multipurpose items, furniture pieces will help you with all of those things. But do recognize your. Your, you know, I do recognize that hanging, for me, is a lot easier for my husband to put things back. All of his stuff is hanging because it's a lot easier for him. So you do have to recognize those things.

[27:02] Katie Chandler: There's also a special skill when it comes to folding. Like, some. I can't fold a nice, tighty t shirt to save my life. And then my husband does it. Like he works at the gap. Like, it's really funny. Did you know that about him, Amy?

[27:18] Amy Sherman: I did not know that about him. I did not. Um, I'm. That's surprising. I am. It's funny that you say that, because I have a lot of things hung, because I have a lot of hanging space and I have less drawers, but I also find. And maybe it's just me. When stuff's in the drawers, it's like I don't have it. Like, I don't see it. So I like to see. See everything, because otherwise, I'm like, I don't know.

[27:37] Ana Oliveira: But same.

[27:38] Amy Sherman: I actually had an organizer years ago that helped me with my closet and the way I have it organized, like, mine isn't stuff on the floor. Well, I guess shoes and stuff are on the floor that I need to get rid of, but I think she told me to because I have it kind of organized by what it is. Yeah, what it is. Like, so let's say tops, color, and then, like, type. So if it's like, I don't know, like, a long sleeve shirt, then it's like, you know, light to dark and, like, yeah, that's kind of. I'm still kind of following that system. I don't know if it's right.

[28:08] Ana Oliveira: But.

[28:11] Amy Sherman: I saw something on your instagram that I was intrigued with that I thought was really cool for hanging jeans. It was like a hook instead of, like, folding your jeans over the thing. What is that? And where do I get it? Because I was like, that's. Again, that's even less work than hanging it over the hanger. You could literally just hang it.

[28:27] Ana Oliveira: Yes. By the belt hook. By the belt?

[28:32] Amy Sherman: Yeah. By the belt hook. Yeah.

[28:34] Ana Oliveira: The loop.

[28:35] Katie Chandler: Yeah, the loop.

[28:36] Ana Oliveira: Yes. So I did it first in my daughter's closet because she loves jeans, and I was like, she can't fold it. She can't fold it. We don't have enough drawers. Let's just hang them. Let's just, you know, get hooks and just hang them and see how it goes. Perfect. Never had once had to go back and fix anything because that's, like, genius, dumb proof way of. First of all, some people don't like that little mark that. The little. So I was like, this is perfect. I'm gonna use it for me, but I use it for my husband. We're all gonna do the same way of hanging jeans. It's been working wonderful for clients, especially, again, if you're not a big fan of folding, if you don't have enough time, if you're not, you don't have the skills of folding. Just keep that and hang your jeans.

[29:28] Katie Chandler: And where did you get the. Is it a special type of hanger that has the hooks?

[29:32] Ana Oliveira: No, it's actually single hooks. So Amazon has it. We love the ones from Amazon. The container store also has them, but they come in last in the pack, so Amazon is the best.

[29:43] Amy Sherman: So is it just, like, hook over the bar and then it's just literally.

[29:46] Ana Oliveira: Like a hook just over the rod?

[29:48] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[29:48] Ana Oliveira: Just make sure you. Because some people have that really thick rod that only fits, like, hangers. Just make sure you buy the ones that are a little wider, tiny, more like for metal shelving, not actually for clothing. So make sure you just get the whiter ones.

[30:07] Amy Sherman: But those were literally just hang it. So I would imagine if you have that. You would want to hang that on a higher rack so the jeans don't hit the floor. Or does it?

[30:15] Ana Oliveira: It depends. We actually do use the bottom. We like to use the top four tops, bottom for bottoms. But it really goes by how much space you have, because those usually that higher, the bottom rod is usually fixed. You can't really regulate the height. So check what you have in your closet. For me, for example, I'm short. I'm five two. I can easily hang mine whenever, but my husband's a little, you know, he's taller, so we needed more room. So play around and see what works best.

[30:52] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I love that because I hate hanging the jeans and I hate that thing. So.

[30:56] Ana Oliveira: And folding. Who likes folding?

[30:58] Amy Sherman: I know. And then I can maybe get rid of some of my jeans because I was like, I just have collection way too many. Even though I do wear a lot of jeans. I was like, all right. Okay. So I like these tips that you're. You've inspired me to, like, start. Do you also recommend from a closet standpoint to, like, do it all in one day or do sections?

[31:16] Ana Oliveira: Definitely sections. Even with three or four organizers, that's a full day project for us.

[31:22] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[31:23] Ana Oliveira: Because there is a lot of folding involved. The last thing you want is start something and feel frustrated in the middle of it and just having to shove everything back. So, you know, recognize that nobody has the skills. I mean, no one. Not everyone has the skills. And you're not. You're only. If it's only you recognize that you need a lot more time. We're sometimes three, four professionals doing it, and we still need a full day.

[31:52] Amy Sherman: It's also nice to work with a professional because they can, like, make the decision for you. Because I found that when I worked with someone years ago, I was like, should I get rid of that? And she's like, yes, done half the time, something by myself. I'm like, well, maybe I'll wear this and, like, try it out, but warn it. Oh, right, yeah, exactly. Sorry, Katie, what were you going to say?

[32:10] Katie Chandler: I was just going to say, do you recommend labeling for kids? Like, my kids, my girls closets or their toy room? I've been thinking about doing this for a while, especially for my older one. She has ADHD, so things are. Can be, like, very messy inside the drawers, like myself. I guess that's maybe where she gets it from. Maybe it's not the ADHD. I feel like if I labeled things, then she will have just, okay, my shorts go in this drawer. Like, is that something that you do often.

[32:42] Ana Oliveira: Often you have to. Labels are, like I said, they're pre made decisions, especially for people who really feel overwhelmed making decisions. There's different studies that shows that we make at least 800 decisions a day without knowing that we're making decisions. What do I wear? What sneakers do I wear today? Which. So we don't even notice that the last thing you want is deciding where. Especially for kids, it's pretty overwhelming. If labels are there. They're great at following directions. Great. Kids are awesome at following directions. So labels in place, you won't have to even, like, ask, which is huge for kids not having to ask to put things where they need to go. Labels will tell them everything they need to know. That bin holds your arts and crafts. This bin holds your shirts. And, you know, definitely invest in labels, and you will see how amazing they work for you.

[33:42] Katie Chandler: Do you have a favorite label maker?

[33:44] Ana Oliveira: I do. I have a few. I have several. But the p touch cube is one of my favorites because you can play with different label sizes in one machine opposed to having to buy one size label for that specific machine.

[34:00] Katie Chandler: Okay, nice. We'll have to put that link in our show notes.

[34:03] Amy Sherman: Yes, we will. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about. We didn't talk about two topics. We could, like, talk about this all, because I love, like, this whole organizing conversation, but two things. Um, first, the fridge, and then the, like, kitchen mud room mail. Like, cluttery type stuff. So let's start with fridge. Okay. Our fridges can get out of control.

[34:23] Ana Oliveira: Right? Um, I feel like fridge. I like to. I hate to say that you have to take one day to actually completely clean out your fridge, although you do, I would say, every three months, seasonal, take everything out. Wash from top to bottom, you know, soap and water. Go. Go to town. But the secret to keeping it organized, it's not even products, because some people, if you add two products, they're done. Like, there's no room for leftovers. There's no room. So I hate to. That's very controversial, because if you see pictures online of fridge organizations, you're like, this is like ****. It's so good. There's so many products, and I can't believe they only eat fruit and veggies, because that looks good in containers. But in real life, we do have leftovers, you have takeouts and all of those things. So, um, the secret to keeping it organized is really like you. I'm used to doing food shopping once a week. Right. Instacart delivers. I know that day I need to kind of like spend 1015 minutes just cleaning out and bringing new stuff in. Washing all the fruits and vegetables before putting in the fridge is a huge time saving. It's not. It's not that I'm crazy about washing them and putting them in the fridge, although it's kind of gross, but it's more like time saving. So once it's done, it's done. We just have to kind of, like, live a whole week until I actually refresh again. And that goes back. Takes us back again to that weekly refresh, that every space in your home will need to keep things. To keep things organized. And you said. You said mudroom and, like, mud room.

[36:16] Amy Sherman: Kitchen counters, that kind of situation.

[36:18] Ana Oliveira: Okay. There is a difference between which it took me years to realize, and actually, that was like, the light switch that it blows my mind that it took me so long to realize that there is two different types of clutter. Right. And in my head, it was always like, it's one. The entire house is cluttered. I need to, let's just burn it down and move out. But the thing is, there is an thing called expected mess and clutter. Right. Expected mess is basically what we all struggle with. It's the daily refresh that we need to do is the cleaning the counters, picking up the shoes from the mud room, putting backpacks away, cleaning up your bathroom counters after you brush your teeth and put your makeup on, putting things away. That's all expected. Because you have a family. There is no such a thing as a house that it's perfect all the time. Mess will happen. It's actually a great sign that you have, you know, healthy kids and life and all of those things. But once you realize that the expected mass is non negotiable, you have to do it right. I deserve to wake up with a clean kitchen, but in order that to happen, I need to act on the non negotiable, which is cleaning up the kitchen after dinner. Right. And that applies for, I think mudroom and kitchen counters are really, like, one feeds the other. Mudroom is, like, the only room in my house that I tell the kids. I'm like, drop everything you have. I don't care how it looks. I'll catch up. I'll get to that. At the end of the day. At the end of the week, I don't care. But everything needs to stop there. So when you realize and when you do know the difference between the expected mess and the clutter, things become really clear. Really clear. Okay, so if I don't act on things that are really important, which is the expected mess. Right. I need to clean up the kitchen after breakfast. I need to pick up the mail and, you know, soar through and have a place to put it. My house. I would be. I would. That would save me so much time that I would actually have time to tackle on the real clutter, because that's not the expected mess is non negotiable. I act on it. It's done. That frees up space for me to really act on the root of the problem, which is the clutter, that it's behind doors, like we were talking.

[39:00] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I was gonna say that's the part that I'm really, really good at. The expected mess all day long. I can deal with that when I get home from work, before work, before I go to bed, et cetera. But then it's like, I take the expected mess things that maybe don't have a home, and I shove them in, like, a junk drawer.

[39:15] Amy Sherman: That's like, what happens with our mail? It's, like, piles up, and my husband can't stand it. He's like, what's all this clutter? And I'm like, I don't even know where to put it.

[39:21] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[39:22] Ana Oliveira: So I have a system for. For paper clutter that I started using years and years ago, and it really has changed. And I. Even if clients say, you know what, it's fine. I don't really have mail, you know, coming. They don't really use that certain door that leads to the kitchen to bring mail in. I'm like, I'm gonna give you this bin as a gift and tell me if it works in two months. Soon enough, after two months, when we come back for the next project or to see them again, you notice that it's been used. So it's literally an acrylic box. They sell it on from. We get it from Amazon, but container store has a really pretty one that blends in. In any counter. Any counter. You could have the most beautiful, you know, luxury kitchen. If you have that box, you wouldn't even notice it's there. So we use files inside that box. It's either, like, blue, light blue, or white, depending on the aesthetics of the home. And then we have different files. In my home, for example, we have five or six. One for act, which it really catches all the mail that we need to act on, or at least for a while you think you need to, like, oh, it's a form from school, or it's a bill that needs to be paid, goes into the act file. The labels are beautiful. They're vinyl labels, so it's very subtle. Like I said, you wouldn't even notice. The boxes there goes in the act file. The other file is called file. That means those are. Those are act on paper that needs to be filed. But I do not feel like going up upstairs and filing those paper, that paper right away. So it's gonna fill that file until it's full, and then I'll act on and move to my file cabinet. The other one is for the kids, so that just lands. Anything that comes in that I need, I don't need to act on. But those are information like USA gymnastics card, USA swimming car, things that I need handy. But if I place anywhere else, there is a very high chance that I won't remember where it is. So it's there. And then a couple of other ones, like miscellaneous, that are just, like, random stuff, like cards. Context that we have that it has to be there. We need to keep it handy. But those actually, that box catches hundred, 100% of your paper clutter. There is no such a thing as papers laying around for the last, I would say for the last ten years in my house.

[41:56] Amy Sherman: Oh, my God. That's amazing. I need to. I need this box. You need to tell us where to get this box so we can. This organizing box where we put all the things with the folders. Because I think our audience would find that valuable as well as us. Because I'm like, okay, yeah.

[42:11] Ana Oliveira: We have clients that have one file for coupons, one for recipes, one for a calendar or things like that, that you don't want to live on the counter. You need a space for it. Let's just face it. If you have an. I don't know if your office is right off the kitchen, but unless your office is right off the kitchen, there is a very high chance that you do have paper clutter sitting. Yeah. On your.

[42:35] Amy Sherman: You just put it in the box and the box stays in the mud room. Is that what you were saying? Or stays in the kitchen?

[42:40] Ana Oliveira: Mine stays in the kitchen, but you can have it in the mud room. Perfect. Whatever. Make sure that it's visible and it's right by the door that you would actually come in because as soon as we walk in.

[42:52] Amy Sherman: Right, you.

[42:53] Ana Oliveira: Yeah. Recycling act file done. Takes like 5 seconds.

[42:58] Amy Sherman: I love that.

[42:59] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I like that, too.

[43:00] Ana Oliveira: Yeah.

[43:00] Katie Chandler: I. I was just looking over in my office, and I have an entire corner piled up with all of my children's artwork and school supplies and not. Not school supplies. I'm sorry, but like anything that they came home with homework that just looked cute and like any project. And it's from years and it is my closet. Yeah. I'm like, what do I do with that?

[43:22] Amy Sherman: And you don't want to throw it away because you're like, I don't want to look back at it.

[43:25] Katie Chandler: I know.

[43:25] Ana Oliveira: That's a great question. That's a great question. I do have another solution, which is called memory box. It's called the memory box. We do make it for clients. I used to make it and ship those boxes, but it just became a little bit of a, you know, time consuming on top of my day to day work. But it's basically a box. I do have to say, go through that pile again, because you might have find that you have 57 different footprints or handprints of your kids and you only need five of them because those are from the same school year. So pare down what you're keeping. Have in mind that one of the things that we do see when we do state organizing, which have taught me a lot about what to keep for my kids and from my kids and things that I want to pass on, like they each have one box and one trunk. That's it. They're 14 and twelve. And I only have a few years left to fill that up and just, you know, send them away. But I gave myself a physical space to fill it up, so I know that I can't overpass that, you know, that little box or that trunk. So pare down to what you have. But then this memory box that we, that we have made for clients and we still do, they have different files from baby and pre k all the way to high school. Each file holds that school year, which is, you know, you can add school pictures, projects. If you can't remember, that's fine. You can kind of guess what's from elementary school to middle school and high school, obviously. But as long as they don't over flow that it's a file box. It's a plastic type file box about this size. And you know that your space would be that file. If you have more than that specific that you can fit in that specific space, it's time to probably purge.

[45:33] Katie Chandler: Right.

[45:34] Amy Sherman: I like that idea because it's like the more space you have, the more you'll just fill it up.

[45:39] Ana Oliveira: Right. And I had this when my kids were little, and especially in preschool and elementary school, I had, I used to associate the fact that I was, I was only going to be a good mom if I had, if I was sitting on the floor all day, playing with, or at least the time that I was home playing with my kids, I had that vision. You know when you see commercials and you're like, oh, the mom is playing and doing puzzles and coloring. I was never that mom because I worked full time. And by the time I used to get home, it was anyways. So I had that picture in my head that I was like, okay, because I'm not home all the time, I'm gonna keep everything for them. And, you know, for the longest time, every single little handprint from preschool that they couldn't even sign their name, but the teacher put the date on the back. I have to keep it. And then I found something about myself that I really. It was life changing. Again, the age that they are now, it's a. It's very challenging. Two girls, twelve and 14. Not that fun. But on the other end, you do have. I'm the mom that I love to. I rather have conversations than playing on the floor. That was just something I learned about myself. But that helped me pare down the things that I do want them to have. They are also at the age that they went. They have done. A couple times we went through that little box and they told me, like, I don't want this. I don't want that little tree that I made in, you know, first grade. You can get rid of that. But all the. I know that all the yearbooks, they love the. The school pictures. They love, you know, certain projects that they did, and I saved, things that they spend a lot of time, they did want it to keep. So it's. We reevaluate. Not every year, maybe, but whenever we have a chance or we're down in the basement, I'm like, why won't we bring all your pictures out in that little box and let's just go. We make it fun. But it's. I always bring a garbage bag with me.

[47:49] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's funny, because I have gone through some. I've tried to do that with my girls. Like, they always come on with an art folder at the end of the year, like, huge art. And I'm like, so should we keep this one? Yes. What about this one? Yes. You know, every single one. And of course, I want to keep them, too. But, like, I try to pare it down and they're still at that age with, like, no, no, mom, you're not.

[48:12] Amy Sherman: Show them something this year from last year and then see how they feel, because it's like a year old.

[48:17] Ana Oliveira: Yeah. And also, there's a bunch of apps that you can download those projects and make it like a yearbook photo book. There's different ways. Yeah.

[48:28] Katie Chandler: Yeah, those are cute.

[48:29] Ana Oliveira: Yeah.

[48:30] Katie Chandler: Nice. All right.

[48:31] Amy Sherman: Okay, let's get into our wrap session. Just as a side note, Katie, I have to wrap it too, so that's why I could, like, literally talk all day, because I love this stuff. Um, okay, let's get into our wrap session because I've been, like, looking at your skin, and it's so beautiful. So we need to get all of your beauty hacks as well while we have you. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

[48:50] Ana Oliveira: Oh, my gosh. I feel so bad because I'm not that good about it, but I do take. Let's put it this way. I've been better these days. I feel like I focus a lot more on, obviously, sunscreen, but I do take. Which you have probably heard from other people who. Kat Ashmore. She also takes the same thing. And it's funny because when we first met, she's like, I'm like, you do take the liquid collagen. She's like, me too.

[49:20] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I buy it from her. Yeah. Her link. Yeah.

[49:23] Ana Oliveira: So I've been taking for, I would say, four years now.

[49:27] Amy Sherman: Oh, wow. Okay. I just started, like, six months ago.

[49:30] Ana Oliveira: But you will see a huge improvement in her skin. It's life changing. So I do take that daily, and I do take different supplements. There is one. It's called wellbeing vitamins. I take that. I buy them from Amazon, but I swear by it. And a lot of sunscreen over the years, I noticed that I do need it. I've been on and off in the wintertime. I know you're supposed to wear them even in the winter, but now I'm back at it.

[50:02] Katie Chandler: Nice. All right, well, this.

[50:03] Amy Sherman: Your skin's beautiful.

[50:04] Katie Chandler: Yeah, it is. It's beautiful. It's glowing. This next one, we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and Ubers pinged you. They're five minutes away. What are you going to do to get into that Uber on time? Like, you have holy grails that you go to to get out the door?

[50:17] Ana Oliveira: You mean clothing or just like.

[50:19] Katie Chandler: Like, whatever? Like what? Like, what's your beauty routine?

[50:21] Ana Oliveira: Oh, okay. Okay. Any makeup that I would do cannot take longer than seven minutes because I'm not good at it. I have. I pare down with the things, like the items that I like and know how to use, and that takes me literally seven minutes to get out the door. So it's basically just like vitamin C. And then a quick, like. Just like. I. I just. It's a dirty sponge. You just put a little bit of a foundation, but then it's literally, like, I just make it really dirty. And I would just go around my face. That's literally what I did before the show. And just blush and lip gloss.

[51:05] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[51:05] Ana Oliveira: I get my lashes done, so they do take away a lot of the makeup time, I would say, because it looks, like, ready all the time. That's. That's always helpful. And then I'll throw a black dress on.

[51:18] Katie Chandler: And you're ready to go.

[51:19] Ana Oliveira: Yes, and I'm ready to go. Simple.

[51:22] Amy Sherman: Classic. Love it.

[51:23] Ana Oliveira: Simple. Yeah.

[51:23] Amy Sherman: Okay. And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

[51:27] Ana Oliveira: Who? I've been trying my hardest to be consistent because I feel like you get. Sometimes you're so good, but then life, you know, changes, and then your routine changes. But one thing that I try to keep it. Keep it simple. It takes no longer than ten minutes in the morning, but I do wake up before the kids. I do my daily devotional, and I read if I'm reading a book, or I try to do all those things in the morning, and that really keeps my sanity. And I feel like my day just started. If I don't do those things, I'm kind of off until, like, do you feel that way?

[52:14] Katie Chandler: I do. Yeah. I totally get it. It's a great way to start the day. I do the same. I get it up an hour before my kids for that exact reason. If I don't actually, I don't even know. The last time was that I didn't.

[52:24] Ana Oliveira: Yeah.

[52:24] Amy Sherman: Cause then you don't feel right.

[52:25] Katie Chandler: You're like, yeah, I have to have at least 30 minutes, but typically, it's an hour.

[52:30] Amy Sherman: Yeah. Okay. And where can people find you if they want to work with you or follow you? On Instagram?

[52:36] Ana Oliveira: Yeah. So we're very active on social media, especially on Instagram. But if you go on our website, there is a way of scheduling a over the phone consultation. That's the first step. Find us on social media. Make sure you head to our website. Schedule it 15 minutes over the phone just to. That's just a discovery call. We like to call it. You get. I get to hear what kind of help you need. There's. When you fill out the form, it asks for pictures. So you just send, you know, a couple pictures just for me to have an idea of the space. But after the discovery call, it's pretty easy. We talk about pricing, scheduling, and all that kind of stuff and then we'll move from that. As soon as you're on my schedule, you're good to go.

[53:25] Amy Sherman: What's your website URL and your handle?

[53:28] Ana Oliveira: Yes, yes, it's topteamct.com. You will find all the information you need there. There's a quick, quick form that you fill out and then you get to pick the dates and times that works for you for the call. It's very simple. We make it. Like I said, I like to simplify, not complicate people's lives, starting with the fall.

[53:49] Amy Sherman: I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much for all your generous time today and all your tips and tricks. I love it. I'm going to start implementing some of these and we'll get all the links from you so we can share with our community. And thank you so much for joining us. This was so helpful.

[54:05] Katie Chandler: Thanks Anna.

[54:06] Ana Oliveira: Thank you so much girls.

[54:08] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram Irvanasisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know some wood that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 145 - How to Get Your Teenager Talking with You, Boost Their Confidence and Motivation, and Navigate Those Cringe Moments featuring Teen life coach Will Elliott (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 145.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:27] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show, Nirvana Sisters family. It's Amy and Katie, and we are so excited for today's guest. And let me tell you about him before we get into it. Will Elliott is one of the world's top life coaches for teens and is dedicated to helping the next generation live confident, bold, and purpose driven lives. He coaches teens and parents, helping them develop unshakable confidence and indestructible character so they can take action to become truly unstoppable. He's passionate about making personal growth fun for kids and taking the stress out of parenting by teaching parents to connect effectively with their teens. And this subject is so relevant for our audience and us. We both have. I have two boys. One is 17 and, well, one's almost 17 and 14. And Katie has two girls, ten. And how old's Reese? 610 and six. So she's like preteen. I'm in the thick of it. And for our audience, I found will just online on Instagram. He has incredible content. So if you haven't checked out his homepage, if you haven't checked out his instagram, we'll put a link in our show notes. But such good advice. Literally, a lot of the things you have in there, I'll do. You'll be like, text your teenager this. And I'll be like, oh, my God, I'm going to text jackson this. But such good info. So, will, why don't you just jump? First of all, welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into this, because I just think your perspective is so refreshing.

[02:02] Will Elliott: Yes. So it's a very long story, but I think the best summarization is I wanted to become the leader that I wish I had when I was in high school. And I know that sounds pretty cringey or cliche, but I was so desperate for someone to give me life principles that I could use to improve my confidence, teach me how to set goals, not in a cringy way, and stop procrastinating, get off video games, all these different things that I was really, really needing as a middle school and high school boy. I just started posting content on social media, giving that advice that I wish I had. And so now I've grown an audience of parents, mostly. So I find myself being the middleman. That's the best way to describe myself, is I'm the relatable, fun one for the kids, but I'm also a little bit older and more mature than an average teenager, and I just communicate what they're feeling and what their needs are to parents, and I think they appreciate that perspective. So, yeah, that's a little bit about my background. I've been doing it for about five years now and absolutely love every single day. I've helped thousands of kids, mainly with confidence and a lot of other things, too. So, yeah, thanks again for having me. Great.

[03:17] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I'm excited.

[03:18] Amy Sherman: Yeah. Thank you for all of your knowledge and wisdom. We really are savoring it. I guess there's so many things to talk about. I feel like we could go everywhere, in all directions. But I guess the first thing is you were saying about you talk to a lot of teens, and how do you just get your teen to just talk with you and tell you what's on their mind? I mean, I have boys, right? And they're very different. One is less talkative, one's more talkative. But just, like, how do you kind of get them out of their shell and less one word answers and that kind of stuff?

[03:52] Will Elliott: Great question.

[03:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[03:54] Will Elliott: I was definitely the kid that rolled my eyes when my mom asked me how was my day? I was like, mom, I don't want to talk about anything. Or I would just say, I don't know. And I feel like that's what most parents kind of tell me. And so I think the first thing is lower your expectations, especially the teenage boys. I think lowering expectations of how much they open up to you about their relationships at school or their friends or what's happening at school, their grades. I think lowering expectations and balancing that with asking them those questions while they're doing something they enjoy. So this is what we always, or what I coach, is indirect communication. So using the opportunities, like in the car, shooting hoops outside. My parents asked me the deepest questions when we were shooting baskets because they knew that I would open up rather than, let's say, at a dinner table with my siblings around. But they knew when I was having fun and when I was doing something that I enjoyed, I would be more willing to open up about things, and I probably didn't even know about it. So I would say using indirect communication, lowering expectations, also talking to them about their interests, just creates a safe space for them to feel seen, heard, loved, and understood, which obviously opens up the door for you to ask a little bit more personal questions about things that you want to know. Maybe they don't naturally open up about.

[05:22] Katie Chandler: It's very true. The piece of talking to them when they're doing something that they enjoy. And I've noticed that with my girls from the time that they were really little until even now, they like to do arts and crafts. So we'll be doing that a lot, and we'll start talking, and then that's next thing I know, it's all coming out right, but versus when you're sitting at the dinner table, they feel like they're put on the spot or something, and they don't want everybody else to listen. Or even in the car, they feel like they're locked in.

[05:53] Amy Sherman: Right. Trapped, yeah, for sure. I find that when I play video games, or at least sit downstairs in the basement with my kids when they're playing video games, I definitely get more insight into what's going on.

[06:08] Will Elliott: Yeah, I think we're all like that, too, not just teenagers.

[06:12] Amy Sherman: Totally.

[06:13] Will Elliott: Yeah. I'm a big supporter, and I'm very convicted. And if we talk to teenagers like we talk to other humans, and when we approach teenagers, like we want to be approached as adults, that's ultimately what they're craving the most. That's what a teenager is all about, is they want to be independent. And even though they're not an adult, they want to be treated like an adult. And so using those small things, like, what do we open up or when do we open up the most? And just asking them to do the kind of the same thing, I think that always helps.

[06:40] Katie Chandler: All right, so I want to know, what's some of your advice for getting teens motivated and staying motivated? I mean, I feel know mine are younger than yours, Amy, but I'm sure you could speak to this better than I can. They seem to have so much on their plate all the time, and there's so many extracurriculars, and there's so many demands at school. I'm sure it's really. I remember it was really hard to stay motivated. It's also, you want to just have fun when you're a teen. Right? So what are some tricks there?

[07:11] Will Elliott: Yeah. My perspective on motivation is very different, and I am not a huge believer in motivation. I know that I have not gotten where I am today because of motivation. I think a lot of kids and a lot of people are under the assumption that they need motivation in order to take action, where, in reality, action is the thing that usually gives motivation. And so when we can help kids kind of shift the perspective and help them just take action even when they're not motivated. And I have a lot of tips around that. But I think as the parent shifting your perspective towards, I don't want to motivate my teenager, but instead I want to help them build momentum. I want to help them build action. And I'm going to do that by praising little things that they're doing. Well, then the more that they do that, it's kind of like going to the gym. When you go to the gym and you start seeing progress, even when you maybe just start out going to the gym, you're not crazy motivated. But when you start seeing progress, you start to get more motivated. You're like, oh, this stuff is actually working. I actually want to go back. It makes me feel good. So action leads to motivation rather than the other way around. So I think the more we can build Momentum, that's the secret.

[08:21] Amy Sherman: Yes. Give us an example. How do you do that? How do you help them to build momentum?

[08:28] Will Elliott: Yes. And that's kind of the question that always comes after what I just explained. And so I'll leave it at this. Most students, or I'll start with this, most students really feel as though they can't do anything right. And I've had thousands of conversations with kids, with teenagers, and they feel bombarded by this idea that everything that they're doing is not good and definitely not good enough. And that's really exhausting. We don't like when we are bombarded with that message. So from school, from sports, social media is the biggest thing. And so I think the more that we catch kids doing things right, catching teenagers doing even the littlest thing correct. When my parents caught me, or let's say, said, hey, will, I notice that you got up on your first alarm this morning. That was really awesome. It subconsciously gave me kind of this hit of, oh, wow, I actually did something right for once. You're pointing it out. And obviously parents catch kids doing things right a lot, but I think being really intentional about it is how you build momentum. The more that you catch them doing little things right, the more they're going to want to do those little things right. Hence leading to bigger opportunities to do big.

[09:43] Katie Chandler: Had Erica Brunwasser. She is a parent coach for kids that are parents that have much younger kids. And she said something very similar and I applied it to my girls and it does, it works really well. What were you going to say, amy?

[09:58] Amy Sherman: I was going to say, it's funny. I try to do that very intentionally. As much as I can sometimes. I'm not always thinking about it, but I do find that I get a little smile if I say, hey, I noticed you did XYZ. That's awesome. I'm proud of you. Whatever. And I have this. I was going to bring it up later, but I'll bring it up now because I think it's relevant for so many people. I am very much of that mindset. Like, positivity breeds positivity. Motivation breeds motivation. Like every little tiny thing. What if your partner, AK, my husband, and probably others husbands or wives are not on the same page? He's very much. I wouldn't say stricter, but more like that type of philosophy he doesn't buy into. He thinks it's like, soft. It's hard because we just have different outlooks.

[10:50] Katie Chandler: Right.

[10:50] Amy Sherman: And so how do you deal with parents who are not always on the same page with how you discipline or how you react to those sorts of things?

[10:59] Will Elliott: Yeah, I mean, you're always going to have a balance, and I think a balance is really important now. For me, I was an athlete, I went division one for a couple of different sports, and I had coaches that didn't catch me doing little things. Right. And I learned certain things from them and I had other coaches that did, and I learned certain things from them. So if you have a partner that doesn't do that, I think it's even more important for you to do that. You obviously can't control them. And so just doing your best to find the balance and knowing that there is good things, there's pros of both. Right. And so I think just having faith that they will get different lessons from different parents.

[11:43] Katie Chandler: Is it kind of like his perspective is you do your chores because you're supposed to do your chores, and then I'm not going to give you a pat on the back. It's your job. Is it more of like, that perspective?

[11:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah. Or like the trash every week? If he doesn't take it out proactively without us reminding him, then that's not good. Where I'm like, well, okay, he forgot, but if I ask him, he does it with no problem. So what's the big. His. His philosophy is more like, well, he should be doing it proactively. We shouldn't have to remind him. He'd been doing it for five years. Why do we have to remind him every week? But every once in a while, he does do it by himself without us telling him. And I'm like, jackson, I loved how you did the trash without us reminding. I. But I like that idea of, like, you're not going to change your partner. They are who they are, and they have their positives and negatives, too, just like I do. So everyone puts a different perspective. It's just like teachers, right? Like, some teachers are amazing for a certain kid's learning style and some aren't. But to your point, they probably learn from both styles in different ways. So it's a really good outlook. I love that.

[12:44] Katie Chandler: It kind of raises the question of if the positive reinforcement is one way, is the other way, sort of teaching a child to have grit, because grit, I think, within children is huge. To be able to persevere through something if they get knocked down, to get back up again and to keep fighting and not just to give up. And my kids, they're not in sports. And I really feel like my ten year old did sports for the first time this past year, and she's learned a piece of some grit from sports activities. And I feel like that can really just get surpassed with children these days. And then it hurts them in the long run because you have to have grit when you're in the working forest, in the real world and everything, right?

[13:33] Will Elliott: Yeah. Grit is my favorite word. It's my favorite thing to talk about. I definitely find it really hard to help kids develop grit just because my kind of definition of grit, the way that my mentor explained it to me when I was in college, is doing things that you don't feel like doing, but knowing it's going to help you with your long term vision. And so it's really just saying no to instant gratification. And I always like to remind parents I had zero grit until college. I mean, late college, I started knocking on doors, doing door to door sales, and I never really had to go through a whole lot of super uncomfortable moments that I would say called for a ton of grit until then. And so just because your kid is not really developing grit that you can see on an everyday basis when they're in high school doesn't mean that they're never going to be gritty. I would say that's one of my biggest strengths. It's led to me doing a lot of things that I'm doing now, and I didn't learn it until later. So I do think that the second parenting style does lead to that. I mean, my dad specifically didn't give me a ton of validation. I had to work really hard for that validation. And that's still something that there are pros and cons to that, of course, but it didn't come naturally to him giving it to me. And I think that probably subconsciously gave me a little bit of grit. But there were more moments, the more that I got older, that gave me clear opportunities to develop it with social.

[15:09] Katie Chandler: Media and the instant gratification of that in the world that we live in today. I feel like these generations, that's even a bigger issue because of that exact reason. It's a little scary, right? They're so used to instant gratification. They're so used to that. Like, or that.

[15:29] Amy Sherman: And so many options, like, oh, this is work. I'll do something else. I also think. And tell me what you think, will. I feel like confidence probably aligns itself with grit. I feel like sometimes my kids will say things that don't sound confident to me, like they wanted to do something. They asked the teacher, and the teacher was like, no. And I was like, well, don't take no for an answer. Go back. And they're like, no, it's okay. And I'm like, well, if they had a bit more confidence, they might go back up to the teacher and say, you know what? I heard you. But XYZ, so I don't know. Do you think they kind of go hand in hand a little bit?

[16:06] Will Elliott: For sure. I would say that, for me, a lot of confidence comes from my faith in myself that I can get over the no's or essentially get over the hardships. And I think a lot of students, they're kind of in the same boat, and they just need to go through those hardships. It takes a long time to learn, like, even in that example, it takes a long time for kids and teenagers to learn to keep persisting through that failure. Right. And so a lot of the things that I see in the parent side of my coaching is that they are fixing a lot of the kids issues, and so that really robs them of opportunities to actually learn those types of things. And so, yeah, I think it just takes a long time for us to develop the, I guess, awareness as well as the maturity to keep persisting through those exact moments. But the more that they practice that, the more that they obviously get gritty and attach that grit to confidence.

[17:08] Amy Sherman: And I'm sure parents are ruining it for a lot of kids, too. I'm sure. You see, like, I see you talk about on your feed all the time, like the helicopter versus the lighthouse parent. Talk about that a little bit.

[17:17] Katie Chandler: Hear that?

[17:18] Will Elliott: Yeah. This is, I think, the best explanation of what I see in kids today for the parent side of things. I see a lot of kids problems. And for all the parents that are listening to this, it is not your fault that you helicopter parent. It's also if your kid isn't confident or let's say if they're not being persistent and they're not developing grit, it's not just the parent's job to bring that out in kids. I mean, the society we live in and the world we live in doesn't really help kids. Right. It's a very difficult time with social media and everything. So it's not just the parents fault. There are different things that you can do. So the best way to describe this is helicopter parents try to fix, and they are primarily the coach of their kids. Now, that is essentially ten plus years of habits that you've had to kind of cultivate in order to get your kids understanding the importance of hygiene and talking to adults. Right? So up until about twelve years old, you've had to kind of be a helicopter parent. They need that to some extent. But it seems like when they reach the tween years and especially the teenage years, it seems like their needs shift and change completely. And so maybe they wake up one morning and they don't want your advice, they roll their eyes and they storm up to their room. And so with their needs changing, your habits, as the parent I've seen need to change as well. And that's where lighthouse parenting comes in, where you need to be more of a counselor rather than a coach. So just be there as their teammate rather than, let's say, a general manager that's calling out the plays. It's like, hey, I'm here with you. I'm here to learn with you. I don't have all the answers myself. I'm just going to be consistent. I'm not going anywhere. And that is what a teenager is craving the most. Right.

[19:11] Katie Chandler: And is it? Also, they need to learn their own lessons, they need to make the mistakes, they need to fall on their face sometime. You can't save them from everything every second, right? And if you're doing that, they're pulling away more and then they're shutting down more. At least. I mean, I've noticed that in this house, my husband is definitely a helicopter parent. That's Amy's brother. He's rolling helicopter right into ten years old.

[19:45] Amy Sherman: He's like, more than helicopter, I would say.

[19:50] Will Elliott: You're exactly right. So I've spent a lot of time coaching kids. I've had some pretty awesome relationships that have lasted multiple years and not only from my own experience, but from their experience. They grow absolutely the most from falling on their face, like you say, and failing and missing a basketball team or getting rejected by a girl they like or whatever it may be. That's really hard in the short term, but it's awesome in the long term. And that ultimately kind of comes back to grit as well. It's like if you're robbing your kids of opportunities to build character through difficult times, short term hard leads to long term easy. That's what I've seen in my own life. I've spent so much time, I think, going through hard things that my parents allowed me to fail in, but that helped me develop the character to do the things that I love doing now. And so I always like to say, don't rob your kids of opportunities to develop character through short term hard. They need short term hard to have long term easy.

[20:56] Katie Chandler: Just say that again because so you said short term hard is going to say that again? Yeah, please.

[21:05] Will Elliott: Yeah. Short term hard is going to help your kids develop the character to experience.

[21:12] Katie Chandler: Long term versus short term easy. Rather, when they're children, making everything easy for them is going to potentially make the long term really hard for them because they're not going to develop any of the skill sets that they need or the character that they need to power through and to persevere and to become what they want to become, et cetera. Agreed.

[21:32] Will Elliott: Yeah, exactly. They probably will learn all of those things, but it could be when they're 25 or 30 years old, and that's when it's harder to learn those things because you have so many other things going on in life, from what I've noticed. Right. Yeah.

[21:50] Amy Sherman: I agree with that philosophy. I think sometimes, especially for high school kids, and I'm just thinking specifically on school, and I know you have a whole thing about, like, you shouldn't talk to your kids about grades all the time in school, and it's really hard not to, especially in high school, but that kind of stuff, especially with grades. And when you're in high school and it counts, it's really hard to have them do really bad on a test or when it really counts, it's painful, even though it's a good lesson. It's like when they're younger, like middle school, much easier. High school and the stakes are higher. How do you coach parents through that?

[22:24] Will Elliott: Yeah, school is really hard. I think for me, I was not a good student, and so it's easier for me to kind of look back and obviously acknowledge that school is not everything. I think that perspective is really helpful in and of itself. Just reminding yourself that school is not the only definition of success. Now, I empathize with parents out there because it is so important. I think especially in high school, because grades matter, you might be the one paying for college. You really want them to succeed in a good school. But I always like to say that your definition of success for your kid will be the thing that your actions follow. And so if your definition of success is really only school success, then of course you're probably going to nag. You're probably going to try to fix their situation in school. And the more that you can zoom out. My parents really regret not doing this. They were very zoomed in. They nagged me a lot. And they always kind of say, I wish I would have just zoomed out. I wish I would have just seen the bigger picture. Because a lot of the times, obviously, when we are zoomed in, we can't really see much around us the important things. We often lose sight of the important things. And I think the posture of school is the first thing I always like to work on with parents of just reminding themselves that it's not everything. And then from that posture, I think there are good things that you can do. And yeah, I'm open to talking about those too, but I really think the posture and zooming out is super important.

[24:01] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I think it's also super hard these days, too. To your point about social media, because you're hearing about high school and college and it's so competitive and everyone is insane about grades and school and competition. It's like, to your point, just taking a breath and zooming out and being like, everything's going to work out. It is hard to do that in the moment, but it is a great.

[24:21] Katie Chandler: And when you say zoom out, do you mean aside from just being so hyper focused on how they're performing in school, zoom out to see how are they doing? Personally, when you say zoom out, what do you mean?

[24:37] Will Elliott: Yeah, I mean, looking at it from a different perspective, and I think that brings a lot of things into the equation, I would certainly say giving yourself perspective of if your child gets a 70% on a test or if they get a c on their report card, I think accepting the fact that that's happened, zooming out, looking at it from a fresh perspective, looking at it in the big picture in mind, and then from there, then you can go forth and maybe set boundaries in the future, whether it's for screen time. I also think zooming out also looks at just a different version of success. Like, my parents knew that I was going to be successful because I was developing the character and I was failing a lot, and then I was learning from that failure. So the more that you can remind yourself that school, at the end of the day, is more about the character that your kids are developing than it is about the content they're learning, I think especially as they get older, that's another way to zoom out. But, yeah, I'd say those are the two biggest things. Everything changed for me for my schooling. I was a 2.2 GPA student until I started looking at school from the perspective of I get to learn character traits. So instead of I. I wasn't motivated in school because I didn't see the purpose. I was like, mom, I'm never going to use this math. I'm never going to x, y and z.

[25:56] Amy Sherman: This is what Jackson says to me all the time, by the way, when am I going to use this in the real world?

[26:00] Will Elliott: Yeah. And so the session that I always come back to with those types of kids is the one that completely changed my life. And my mentor came to me and said, it's not about the math that you're learning, but it's about the problem solving skills that you can learn in math. It's not about the history that you're learning, but instead it's about the study or the mindset of learning. And those are two things that certainly has helped me in my life. Right. So the more that I looked at it like that, I found more purpose, therefore I found more motivation and momentum, and I went from a 2.2 GPA student to a 4.0. And it wasn't because, wow, I was.

[26:36] Amy Sherman: In high school or in college.

[26:37] Will Elliott: This was in high school. Everything changed when I just started looking at it from a different perspective. But that really helped from leaders and mentors helping me zoom out because they were zoomed out.

[26:50] Amy Sherman: Were those mentors that you had in high school? Did your parents find someone for you to talk to? How did that.

[26:56] Will Elliott: Yeah, it was just a track coach. So my track coach was my biggest mentor in high school specifically. And then I found a couple more in college that taught me a lot of what I know, too.

[27:05] Amy Sherman: That's so special that you had someone in your corner to help you grow in that way. That's special. There's not a lot of coaches and teachers that are like that. So that's incredible.

[27:17] Will Elliott: Yeah. That's what I'm trying to change, though. So hopefully we'll have a lot of awesome mentors out there that can teach these kids these life principles, because, again, it changed my life and it continues to do so now.

[27:27] Katie Chandler: That's fantastic.

[27:30] Will Elliott: Yeah. Very grateful for them.

[27:33] Amy Sherman: Yeah. When you were talking about, we touched on this before about this motivation or intrinsic motivation around certain things, whether it be taking the trash or like a big one for us, too in the house is like meeting with seizures at school. Right. It's like you don't understand something or you do bad on a test or you have questions or just like building a relationship, even if you don't have questions, like that idea of doing something proactive, what you were saying before, like something hard now that will make it easier later and get. It's like that phrase, you can lead a camel to water, but you can't make them drink. There's that certain piece where it's like we're telling you all the things to do. If you're not doing it, you have all the resources at your fingertips. If you're not doing it, there's nothing we can do. But I feel like with both my kids, every year, there's like a little bit of improvement and there's a little bit more proactiveness. But again, is it a maturity thing? Is it eventually they'll lock in and all of a sudden they'll see value from it. What do you think about that?

[28:35] Will Elliott: Yeah. So I can speak from, obviously, my perspective or my experience and also the kids that I've coached. I think we lose sight of the idea that kids are going to find something that will motivate them down the road. The expectation that kids need to be motivated towards school, I think, is an unrealistic expectation. For the most part, they don't need to be motivated. For example, like, I wasn't really motivated to go and talk to my teachers or do those types of things.

[29:03] Amy Sherman: Right.

[29:03] Will Elliott: But the progress that you're mentioning is so important to recognize and also to remind yourself, because when they do, let's say, in college or potentially out of college, or if they don't decide to go to college, when they do find something that they are passionate about, or even if it's like 50% passionate about, more so than school, right. All of these things are going to come in handy. They're going to subconsciously be reminded of them because of the little habits that they get to pull from. So I always like to remind parents that thing that they're passionate about is coming. And when it does come, you're going to be blown away by all these little habits and how they start to improve them. It's kind of like a compounded growth scale. Right? So when they find that thing, their confidence skyrockets, their motivation skyrockets, and so on and so forth.

[29:57] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I totally agree with that. I mean, we're all like that, right? I wasn't a great high school student either. It was fine. But when I got to college, I was taking classes that I liked and I enjoyed them and I was passionate about them, so I did a million times better, which I know my kids eventually will be that way, too. It's just like the time in between letting them figure it out is hard, right. Because it's like you just got to have patience and know it's going to work out and they're going to find something. But in those teenage years, it's really hard, especially when they're not telling you things or rolling their eyes or not really giving you anything. It's hard to absolutely hang in.

[30:30] Katie Chandler: Right?

[30:30] Will Elliott: Yeah. And I like how you said patience. It really is patience. The world is really good at convincing you that everything won't be okay, or at least putting the questions in your mind of what if this happens or what if that happens. And so the more that you can just bring yourself back to the present moment and remind yourself that everything will be okay. That's always what I like to tell parents, because it really will.

[30:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah. And I do like the reminder of lowering expectations. I try to do that, and I always tell my husband that, too. He'll say things. And I'm like, you got to lower your expectations because that is not realistic. That is not going to happen. So. And so whatever he's like, well, why not? It should. I'm like, I have said that to lower expectations, which isn't, like a popular thing to say, but it is true. I mean, these are kids at the end of the day, even though they may seem like grown ups and you talk to them like grown ups, they're not fully developed, so these things aren't going to be perfect. It's a really good reminder. What are the teens telling you? Like you were saying you talk with a lot of parents. What are the teens telling you? What are the biggest things that are happening in their world? Like, what are they focused on and what annoys them about their parents? Everything. Besides everything.

[31:44] Will Elliott: Yeah. Okay. So I guess the common messages, I have a couple of deep ones that always come to my mind, and then one of the things that annoys them the most, I'll talk about that, too. But I would say they feel a lot of pressure, lots and lots of pressure from all directions. Like I was saying before, I feel like pretty much every single session, so I do group coaching as well as one on one coaching. And every single session I think kids are just saying how exhausted they are from the pressure of feeling like they have to have everything figured out. One example, and I know not many parents are like this, but I think a lot of schools do this. They put a lot of pressure on like 8th graders to have their future job figured out. And the amount of kids that come to me and they get super close minded towards goal setting is because in 8th grade they're being pushed to figure out what they want to do for a living. And so I think it's just from society they have this idea that they have to have everything figured out. And I always tell them, you could be 35 years old and not know what you want to do and you're still so young, you still have so much time. Right. And so, yeah, I think the pressure from society is the biggest thing. They really feel misunderstood. And I know pretty much everybody did as a teenager. I know I did as well. And so I think the more that parents can seek to understand rather than trying to be understood, I think it's the best thing that you can do for not only their confidence, but your connection with them. And then the one thing that they dislike is lecturing. And I talk about this all the time. I talk about this all the time. It's really important for parents to guide their teenagers. But when they are closed minded to hearing any type of advice, that's how I kind of define lecturing. So turning little things into life lessons, turning jokes into 30 minutes lectures, that's what they don't love. They just want you to seek their heart. And then from there they're going to be more open to those amazing gold nuggets of wisdom that you have for them. The long answer. But I know, yeah, I've heard a lot from kids, so I have about a billion more.

[33:59] Amy Sherman: Give us another one. That's a good one.

[34:02] Will Elliott: Another thing that they don't parents doing.

[34:04] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[34:06] Will Elliott: Talking about school. Twenty four seven is definitely a big one. They really want you to invest in their interests. And for those of you watching or listening that think the only interest is video games, they want you to invest in that, too. It might take some time for them to open up about things like video games, for them to not roll their eyes that you're trying to watch them or ask them questions about it. But the more that you invest in their interests, the more they're going to be open to talking about school. That's just how it is. I always like to give the example of if you hated your job and you didn't like the people that you were working with, and you were there for 8 hours, and you also weren't very good at that job, and you came home from work and your whole family just wanted to talk to you about that job and the work that you had to do after that job, the job that you hated, you probably would not want to talk about that either. And that's exactly how they feel. So the more you can pull back from school, it's a win win. Not only do you connect with them better, but they also tend to do better in school because they don't feel like all this fear of failure, all the pressure that I mentioned before, too.

[35:12] Katie Chandler: It's interesting because they're at school all day long and it's like we don't lose them to school, but in a sense we kind of do. And we have no idea who they are in that classroom, what they're doing, if they're okay, if they're happy, if they're not happy. So I feel like for me, I'm trying to pull that out more than I'm like. So how'd you do on your recent test? Now, granted, I have fourth grader and a first grader, so it's very different. But it's hard as parents to not focus on that thing where they are all day long. But I can see the last thing they want to do is get into that. They're exhausted by it.

[35:52] Will Elliott: Yeah. And I think talking about schools is fine. I think sometimes I always tell parents to just do it after you've invested in their interests.

[36:02] Katie Chandler: Right.

[36:03] Will Elliott: The whole point of investing in their interests is to truly learn about their interests and show that you care about that. But it's also to open them up about the other things as well. And so, yeah, it's really tough. I think part of the issue is the school system. I'm not a huge fan of homework or those types of things. I mean, I don't need to talk about that, but it's just super hard for kids. I coach kids that have 4 hours of schoolwork after school and it's impossible for parents to connect with them and they feel misunderstood. And there's not a whole lot that parents can do in that situation because, yeah, there's not a whole lot. So I feel for parents out there, too, and the kids who got to.

[36:48] Amy Sherman: Do all that you mentioned earlier about sports and you being a d one athlete, because the whole sports and parents thing is like, there's just so many different types of parents around sports. But what's your feedback for kids that are athletes and my younger one's a really good athlete and my husband gives them a lot of constructive feedback, I would say, but I always feel like there's a time and a place. And what's your thought around giving feedback or whatever around sports?

[37:21] Will Elliott: That's a loaded question, I think. Yeah, I don't think it's a cookie cutter approach, and I think it's all very personal to the parent, to the kid, to the kid's goals, to the coach. I mean, all those different things. So I'll leave you with kind of a cop out answer for a parent to give feedback, but also make sure that they're showing up to listen. And that's using the critical question. I talk about it all the time, and it's going to your kids, let's say after a game or after a practice and asking, do you want feedback or do you just want to talk something along those lines? Do you want to vent or would you like advice? My parents and my dad specifically, he didn't know anything about baseball. He grew up in England, but he always gave me feedback for baseball, and it would always drive me crazy because he had no idea what he was talking about. And then it was totally different than what my coach was telling me, and it was just bad for me because I was kind of like the middleman here. And so I think the more that you can just show up and ask them if it's cool to give feedback, that'll literally tell you where they're at and what their headspace is and how open they are. And again, after you connect with them and, yeah, I always like to say connect before you. Correct. I think that's a common thing out there, but that works for parents looking to give feedback in sports, too. But, yeah, it's a hard question.

[38:45] Amy Sherman: No, I know it's different. And, yeah, that's a whole nother episode, probably. And then before you head out, two questions. First of all, we'd love to know. I'm sure everyone listening wants to obviously follow you. And what types of sessions do you do? Do you do personalized? It sounded like you do a variety of things. So can you tell us a little bit about how you work with parents and teens?

[39:05] Will Elliott: Yeah, so I don't do one on one coaching anymore. The main form of coaching that I do is through my app called unstoppable you. And so it's just a monthly membership that students can join. I make personal growth fun for kids and so we have weekly sessions. It's not a group call, but it's more of a live stream that is super fun. I give out gift cards and I do gamification and it's only 45 minutes long and kids absolutely love it. And then I also do parent coaching on the side to supplement that too. I have a podcast for kids and I just started that called unstoppable you or the unstoppable you podcast. Social media is the best way for parents to, I think, kind of get an idea of my coaching and that type of thing. But yeah, it's really just my app and podcasts.

[39:51] Amy Sherman: And what's your Instagram handle?

[39:52] Will Elliott: Is it coach coaching with Will?

[39:55] Amy Sherman: At coaching with Will? And so I'll leave you with this question. So you were saying that, and I'm thinking I'd love my teens to subscribe and listen to your app. How do I get them to open up about it? Like, if I say that, they'll roll their eyes, like, whatever. So how do you get them to actually do something like that? Because I think it would be so valuable for them.

[40:13] Will Elliott: Yeah, it would be, and it definitely is. But it also is extremely hard to get kids bought into this if your mom and dad, I've noticed, and we have a lot of statistics to back this up. 98% of kids who hop on one call are bought in for future calls just because they go into it thinking it's going to be like therapy, thinking it's going to be totally different than it is. I'm absolutely crazy. On live stream I go lots of enthusiasm, their language. I'm very much holding back right now, too, but yeah, so that's kind of one side of it. In March, I'm opening up a confidence cohort, which we're going to be talking about for twelve weeks. Everything under the sun of comparison, self talk mindset, sports mindset, confidence, all of that stuff. And I will probably be doing introduction calls. And so I call them buy in calls. They're ten minutes where kids just get a meet with me and that works 100% of the time. So there's not ever been a single kid after four years of coaching that has left a ten minute call with me not wanting to do it. And so those are super valuable and yeah, 100% success.

[41:20] Katie Chandler: What ages do you suggest this for?

[41:26] Will Elliott: Yeah, the unstoppable you app. I would say the sweet spot is twelve to 18. I have a lot of 910 year olds that get a lot out of it. I also coach some 23 year olds in the app. So if they're hungry to grow and they're open to grow, they're going to get a ton out of the content. I know some parents even jump on the student calls just to learn about confidence and they get a lot out of it too. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

[41:49] Amy Sherman: Okay, so it's not too late for my 16 year old to learn some.

[41:53] Will Elliott: Get them in here.

[41:54] Amy Sherman: I'm like, I did so many things wrong.

[41:56] Katie Chandler: You're an amazing mom. Well, thank you so much for your time. All right, we have a couple of wrap session questions for you before you go. What is your favorite wellness hack?

[42:09] Will Elliott: Cold plunging is absolute without a question. Cold plunging. Cold life sponsor is a partnership that I have and they are amazing and so cold plunging changed everything for me.

[42:21] Katie Chandler: Love that. Yeah, very.

[42:23] Amy Sherman: That's so great. Okay. And how do you maintain your daily nova? You have a lot going on. You have like super energy. You're dealing with kids. How do you kind of keep.

[42:31] Will Elliott: That's a good question.

[42:33] Amy Sherman: Keep the peace. Exactly.

[42:35] Will Elliott: So I'm a big runner. So that's what I did in college. So I would say running cold plunging, honestly is kind of an answer to that one as well. Yeah, I would say a little bit of a deeper answer, which is my third. And that is shifting my posture towards service. That always helps me find my nirvana is just reminding myself why I'm here on earth. And that is to impact kids. And that always kind of brings me back to feeling like I love to.

[43:03] Katie Chandler: Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, you do.

[43:07] Amy Sherman: So much. Thank you so much.

[43:09] Will Elliott: This was so much fun.

[43:10] Amy Sherman: Such good advice and such good feedback. Yeah, we could talk to you for hours, but we're going to tune into all of your sessions and coaching. I'm so glad we found you. And thank you for coming on and saying yes to our ask because I think this could help a lot of people. So we really appreciate it.

[43:26] Will Elliott: Well, yeah. Thank you so much for having me. You guys rock.

[43:28] Amy Sherman: Thank you. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness. So you don't have to. Bye.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Episode 142 - Taking Big Bites with Kat Ashmore (@katcancook) - Easy Week Night Recipes, Her Full Skincare Routine, Life, And All The Things (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 142, Taking Big Bites with Kat Ashmore (@katcancook) - Easy Week Night Recipes, Her Full Skincare Routine, Life, And All The Things Write Out The Title.

Amy Sherman 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy Sherman 0:27

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we're so excited to have Kat Ashmore back with us. Yay. It's been years. So just for the history. So cat came on our show a couple of years ago, I looked back it was episode 38. Now we're like on 150 or something which is crazy. You were not just starting but like somewhat new to the space now you've obviously evolved and we're so excited to catch up with you and hear more but let me give our listeners because we have so many more listeners. Now. The scoop on cat Ashmore aka cat can cook so, cat Ashmore is the chef recipe developer and digital creator behind cat Ken cook graduated from the award winning Institute of Culinary Education in New York and went on to work for Martha Stewart developing retail recipes and producing cooking segment segments. On the eight time Emmy award winning the Martha Stewart show Kat lives in Fairfield County, Connecticut with her husband Michael and their family. Welcome back to the show. We are so excited to have you here. We've been following you are so proud of everything you've done. We can't wait to hear everything. So welcome. Welcome. Oh,

Kat Ashmore 1:30

so so great to be here. I can't believe it was it was what, two years ago?

Amy Sherman 1:35

Yeah, it was like 2022 I looked back. I can't remember what month but yeah, I was looking back and I'm like God, Episode 38. That's crazy.

Kat Ashmore 1:42

So Oh, wow. So long ago. I know. Time is such a funny thing. I don't even know half the time like what was last month what was five years ago. It's I know it all together. Now. It's so it's so great to be back here with you. Yeah, thanks. So good to be here.

Katie Chandler 2:01

We start with our nirvana. Before we get into it. We're so excited

Amy Sherman 2:04

to catch up. And let's let's start off with we haven't done this in a while. Katie,

Katie Chandler 2:08

I know what was your Nirvana this week, baby? Did you?

Amy Sherman 2:12

I did. So Katie knows I love I get crazy sometimes with organizing. And so I went to the container service like my favorite place. And I got these like new closet organizers for all my sweaters. Because all my sweaters and how like they pile up. And I've been trying to figure out for years, like, how do I do my sweaters needs they don't fall over. So anyway, I got these like, closet organizers for my sweater. And now they're all like neat and organized. So when I walk in, I feel so good. So I did that organizing. And then I also did organizing, like all my makeup and skincare. So I move stuff that stuff out of my bathroom and put it like I have like a little vanity, which I never used. And I'm like actually using it and I organized it and everything's like has a home. And it just feels clean and organized and lovely. And I just love that feeling. And I don't do it enough. But sometimes I get crazy and I start organizing and then I don't do it for like months, but it just feels good to have that organization. Does my Nirvana this week. What about you, Katie? I

Katie Chandler 3:10

would say mine was I found my favorite game that I used to play. It sounds so nerdy, but I use my friends and I used to play this game until like, midnight all the time on like Friday nights. Instead of going to the club. We would play rummy cube. And I first got it all these years. I forgot about that game. Yeah. Oh, fun. My My kids are old enough to play now. So I found the game. And we've been playing it after some weekends. So we did it a couple times this weekend was it's fun. I love it. I'm obsessed. That's so fun. That was mind blowing. What about your cat?

Kat Ashmore 3:43

My Nirvana was probably. So we recently moved into a new home and we have a hot tub. And we've been going in the hot tub, like every couple of nights, I would say. And we had a big snow here in Connecticut. We're not big. But it was our first one of the seasons, which is always really pretty, right? Because it's not gray. And yeah, it's all just really white and beautiful. And there was one night where it was snowing and we were out in the hot tub and I was with the kids who are five and seven now. So even my seven year old and I wasn't expecting this but he's he doesn't want to be with me as much. You know, he's got like, the video games and these things that I'm not really a part of. So when we have an opportunity to just all get on the same level and just enjoy something together and there's no distractions and we're like catching snowflakes on our tongue. And it was one of those moments, you know, where you kind of like hover above your life and you're like, This is joy. Like these are the good old days, like snapshot. Yeah, it was very powerful, you know? And then I was like, Yeah, Looking at them, like 30 minutes. Right? It was pure bliss. And I just think it's so important to recognize those moments of like, this is happiness. This is happiness. tuck it away somewhere, you know, tuck it away and take this

Katie Chandler 5:17

opportunity. And I feel like as they get older, a gray.

Amy Sherman 5:22

Yeah, that's so good. And it's crazy, because last time you were here, your kids were like really? Little, little little. Yeah,

Kat Ashmore 5:27

yeah. While Okay,

Katie Chandler 5:29

that's when you had just gotten back to work. So that's yes. Certainly back to your work you when we talk to you, you just kind of been in was it maybe a few months that you had done the transition into Captain Cook and really diving into to your tick tock following and everything. And now here we are huge fans, tell

Amy Sherman 5:47

us tell us all things tell us.

Kat Ashmore 5:51

I mean, everything's, everything's great. It's like, everything's good. Everything is really great. Yeah, it'll be four years this summer, since I started creating on, cat can cook. But really, you know, I would say 2021 is, I mean, that's the first year that I was able to monetize it all. It was the first year you know, I switched my website over from Squarespace to WordPress, like I could started to, like, actually make it a real business. Yeah. And so it hasn't been a long time. But so much has happened. And I feel like when you put when you place yourself in the right position, sometimes the universe just kind of like, does works really quickly. And it's like, okay, she's, she's here. She's ready. Like, yeah, let's go. Yeah, it's

Amy Sherman 6:45

amazing. And it's so fun to just have watched you grow over these last few years. And like, tada, hello, cookbook. I mean, amazing. Congratulations. You I remember, because it was so impactful. I remember when you filmed yourself, getting the call about doing the book, or like the deal had closed, or whatever it was that it was like so much. No, I remember that. And now it's like, it's here. And you have this beautiful, incredible book. As I just said, like just going through the last few days, I'm obsessed. Thank

Kat Ashmore 7:25

you. It, it feels to me like the book I would want to have. Yeah, the book that, you know, I waited a while to do a cookbook, having been in the industry, having gone to culinary school and working for Martha and I have had a couple of opportunities to do cookbooks in the past. But it didn't feel like I needed to do a cookbook until until now. All right, until it felt right, because it's out of immense respect, and appreciation for the cookbook industry, that I just didn't want to do a book unless it was going to be something really different. And it was really adding to the conversation, changing the conversation. And it feels like this book is that it

Amy Sherman 8:13

really is I mean, I am not a good cook by any stretch Katie's much better than me. And I'm always looking for like really simple, easy. And I was going through this and I have like a few cookbooks that I sometimes like out but like, this is just so user friendly. When I was I was saying to Katie, what I really enjoyed is that in the beginning of the book, you have the pantry staples, which I think it's so helpful. So for our listeners, there's like little section on salt and pepper and oils and what kind of milk and gluten free and just all these staples so that way when you go to the recipes, it's all like you have all the answers you need. And then when I was looking at these recipes, I was like, Oh, this recipe is three steps. This just these four steps. Perfect. So that's that's like amazing for someone like me who really doesn't cook a lot but like I just told my son, my younger one who's now in eighth grade, but he's like in the phase where he is eating non stop. I can't keep up with him. And I wish I'm always like I wish he was like a good cook so I could just make all this stuff so he would just have stuff so I told him I was like go through the book I just got this weekend, pick out recipes that you want me to make for you and I'll have these ready to go but like I don't know exactly what you like your your tastes are changing all the time. So like pick some recipes, so he's been

Kat Ashmore 9:27

phenomenal. If he likes if he likes meatballs, the chimichurri meatballs are a great one because you can you can form them and freeze them or you can just make like a double or triple batch and then freeze them and they're just ready to go. You put them on green bowls, you tuck them into Pietas you you know just eat with your fingers, which is usually what I do. Yeah, so that kind of thing. But these recipes are really it's what I make at home. Yeah, like I don't make multiple meals for dinner idea. I know people are like, how do you do that? It doesn't mean that my kids eat every single thing on the plate, I make sure that there's a safe food on the plate that I know they're going to eat, or to usually that I know that they're going to eat. Sometimes they'll take a little bite and be like, No, but like the turkey feta burgers that I just made them a few days ago, and my kids ate them two nights in a row. And it's like, they have kale in them. I mean, they wouldn't eat kale on its own, but they will eat them. Now, they wouldn't eat them last year, but things change. Those kinds of recipes, I think are just so helpful. And it's really familiar concepts, right? It's just taken in a modern kind of unique direction, like the meatloaf, for instance. You know, like, everybody knows Mila, but like, this is just the amazing meatloaf with caramelized onions and horseradish, and it just like keeps up the flavor. And it's familiar, but it's different at the same time. It's not intimidating at all. Which is why I like it. I find most cookbooks just like out of my reach. Like they're just too complicated or just feels too like, yeah,

Amy Sherman 11:11

it's very approachable. Very, like I said before, like very user friendly, not intimidating. Like it's, it's fabulous. So what is your I mean, there's like, how many recipes in here over 100? I think, like whichever one? Well, I have like two questions on this. Like, what's your favorite one? And then like, give our listeners three. easy and quick weekdays like weekday meals, you can make them every week?

Kat Ashmore 11:31

Week? Yeah. Yep. And so look, so the first recipe that always comes to mind when people ask about this is the most complicated recipe in the book. Now, when I say that, it's not complicated. It was very complicated for me to develop it because it took me three years, but it's the three year gluten free bread. And it literally took me three years to perfect this recipe, okay, 1000s of hours of iterations. By the end, I was like asking my husband like, what do you think about the crust on this? And he was just like, I don't know, like, always the same thing, you know? So my new but I'm obsessive. And this is a bread that it's gluten free. So yes, you buy some of the ingredients that maybe you don't have on hand, but like you buy them, you have them. You can mix the dough, you can bake it, and you can eat it in the same day. There's no overnight rest. So if you wake up on a Sunday, I make it every single Sunday, wake up on a Sunday morning, you're like I want fresh bread for dinner. You can have that. So that is a recipe that I'm really, really proud of. And people have been chomping at the bit to get this recipe and it was the one recipe I knew I had to save. Yes. Yeah. Well, I was like, this has to be in the cookbook. The beaks good. All of the baked good recipes are fantastic. It's like my husband is often like, I don't know why people are so crazy about your salads, like it's your baked goods. They're like crazy good and a lot of them are gluten and dairy free or just have less sugar. I'm always looking at how to make how to keep the integrity of a recipe. So that it tastes like you know it is a brownie it is a piece of cake it is those things. It's just like how much can I cut back on the sugar without it affecting the integrity of the recipe and how can I be importing flavor another way? What is the role that this ingredient so I a lot of things go into account. But the New York style Crumb Cake is fantastic. And it basically mimics those, like big squares of crumb cake that every New York corner store sells in cellophane that like vanilla cake with like the bolder size crumb topping. Yeah. Yeah. looks phenomenal.

Katie Chandler 14:02

That's for sure. Yeah.

Kat Ashmore 14:04

I mean, it's just phenomenal. But I really think as you said that dinner is really the Achilles heel for a lot of people. A lot of kills me, right? It's just like, and it's often not very fun to make dinner with your family. I mean, even for me, and I love to cook but usually it's just like I have to cook something because I'm their parent, and that's part of the deal and like, supposed to feed them. I wish they would intermittent fast, but I haven't been successful with that yet. So when it comes to dinner recipes, so I've got two different chapters. There's the Sunday suppers, and then there's the weeknights, chapter. And one of the most popular recipes with my kids aside from the chimichurri meatballs, that kill and betta turkey burgers, like they love the miso teriyaki pork tenderloin, Wine. And it's a really quick thing to make because pork tenderloin, it's, you know, it's lean, it's not expensive, it is quick to make. And you just have this beautiful miso teriyaki glaze that is literally I mean how many ingredients the I think it's five ingredients, and it's fantastic. So stuff like that, where you're able to all enjoy the same protein, maybe your kids won't eat the vegetable or you know, something like that. But at least you're not making completely separate meals all the time. Yeah,

Katie Chandler 15:35

that's what I feel like I'm doing with my youngest and she's my oldest has come around and she'll eat just about anything. I've been in front of her. But your tip, you told us this when you're on the first time of having a safe food that they you know, without a doubt, they're both going to eat. I've been using that ever since and it really does work. But you know, then I end up cooking like an extra protein just to get that in her as well. But I feel like the weeknight thing. It's the time crunch, right? That's why ball so it's not super fun to cook when your bedtime routine is in half an hour. They have to get up early. So blah, blah, blah. You know, it's a totally different story when it's on the weekend. Coming

Amy Sherman 16:13

up with what you're gonna make it That's the worst part. Like every night, like, what are we going to eat? I mean, yesterday. Yeah, when I think about it, like yesterday, I marinated chicken and I did like slip over all day, just throw it in there. And I like forgot I did it. And then at five o'clock, I was like, Ah,

Kat Ashmore 16:27

I forgot I already put that in. So like that was like I don't think about it every day. But like the thinking about it is the worst part, right? You're like, oh, like, plastic problem, right? And everyone says the same thing about it. It's nice to think about it in the morning. Yes. When you're sharper. Ideally, plan out your meals on a Sunday, that's when I like to do it. I do my grocery shop on the weekend. And then I plan out my meals on a Sunday where I'm rested, because nobody's going to be innovative or creative or, you know, even that mindful when they're in a rush, right? Make it enjoyable. But even in the morning, okay, even in the morning, get up out your protein, take a quick look at it, it'll take you five minutes, just like wrap your head around. This is what's happening, even if you do nothing with it, right? It's, it's the mental shift of like, Oh, now I have to think about this. Yeah, in the morning, when you've got the most motivation, the most energy. So

Katie Chandler 17:30

true. Well, and that's what I love about in your book that you hear at Staples, because if everyone has these in their pantry at all times, and you know when they're running low, that's an easy thing to add to the grocery list. And then you pick out a couple of things to add to the grocery list the proteins, vegetables in your set. I mean, sometimes the meal planning through the week, what I need to make those meals happen is overwhelming. So to be able to have something to have your book where it's it's people don't use cookbooks as much as I feel like they used to. And it's all like Google and searching online and Pinterest. It's there's something so refreshing about having a book in my hand, I can open it up and I can say oh, I need 12345 ingredients. And I've got my pantry staples. It's it just simplifies the whole thing. I really thought What is one of your favorite meals to cook when you have like all the time, and you're on it?

Kat Ashmore 18:21

Yeah, when I have all the time. I mean, that's more project cooking. So I love to do things that are just like slow cooked that can kind of like bubble away. I love soups and stews because there's so many different directions you can take them in. They're all about building flavor, which is something I'm really big on. Like the whole soups and stews chapter is. I mean, I hope it's obvious that they're like knock out of the park. Good. But one of the things that my kids actually love are these slow cooked indoor ribs because and they could not when I tell you they are the one of the easiest recipes in the entire book really they cook they literally cook themselves. Okay, so you are doing a combination. I've got spices here I add a little bit of dark brown sugar, you've got paprika, oregano, garlic, onion, coriander, but you can use whatever spice blend you want to. You don't need you I'm not dogmatic about what spices you use. And then the key is just cooking them low and slow. We're talking like 250 degrees for like three and a half to four hours and just forget about them. You take off the tinfoil you Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just so simple. So on a Sunday and the nice thing about that is that when you've got something that you can just forget about, you've got mental energy and physical energy and time to maybe be a little bit more creative and make your own salad dressing. You know, pair it with something else. instead of like, I just have to like steam up some broccoli because I'm supposed to have a vegetable, right?

Amy Sherman 20:06

recipe actually, like doesn't look intimidating at all like this looks like oh, wait, I could make this. Maybe I'll make

Kat Ashmore 20:12

your hiring imitating Yeah, it's not intimidating at all. I

Katie Chandler 20:17

feel I feel like all of your recipes are really approachable. I mean, as I'm flipping through, they're like, five steps, six steps, right, again, five steps.

Amy Sherman 20:27

I mean, it's really figuring out how long

Katie Chandler 20:29

you could do it.

Kat Ashmore 20:30

I think kids. Yeah, that is, that is a huge, a huge part of the recipe development process for me is that much like Coco Chanel says, like, a woman should accessorize and then take one thing off before leaving the house. I am. A lot of my editing is removing things, removing ingredients, removing steps, like how much does this really needs to be done in two bowls? Can it be done in one bowl? Like, maybe I'll add the baking soda at this stage instead. So it activates more. So a lot goes into a recipe being simple, and spirit

Amy Sherman 21:05

thoughtful, almost like harder to make it simple. I would think hard enough to iterate constantly to get it.

Kat Ashmore 21:11

They're harder. I wanted the recipes to almost all be on one page. I I'm always eliminating steps like how much does this really need to chill on the refrigerator? Like, can I get away with it? Maybe I need to replace it with a different ingredient. So I'm always looking at how can I make this? easier, less time consuming? And really just take up less mental energy, you know, and love? Yeah, one

Katie Chandler 21:37

of many reasons why you have three plus million followers on? Is that right? 3 million plus?

Kat Ashmore 21:46

It's not quite it's, I mean, between Instagram and Tiktok on like just under 3 million. Yeah, yeah.

Amy Sherman 21:56

And speaking of the 3,000,001 of the big things that made you go viral was your hungry lady salads, which I know we talked about last time, which we're still obsessed with. And for our listeners, there's a huge section in the cookbook with all the hungry lady salad recipes, which is incredible. Because to have all that in one place. They're so good. If they

Kat Ashmore 22:16

are just chapter, it's the largest chapter in the book. And it's not actually all of the hungry lady salads. Oh, it's just like, your favorite. I mean, I have like 46

Amy Sherman 22:28

Oh my god seven.

Kat Ashmore 22:30

Second book, like just salad. I mean, there are gonna need to be factored in I did actually just redid just signed to do book to Oh, my

Amy Sherman 22:39

God, hey.

Kat Ashmore 22:41

Yeah, that's actually just fine to do both two and three of my

Amy Sherman 22:46

gosh.

Kat Ashmore 22:49

Oh, it's good. I mean, yes, the orders have been so strong. And the enthusiasm has been so strong that it's the way that the community has shown up. It's really our book. And I always say that, like, I am the voice. But you all are the microphone, I don't exist with that. I mean, you get the message out, you get excited about it. Or else I would just be like sitting in my kitchen, like dancing to my food without anybody there. So like that's not quite as effective. But yes, so the hungry lady salad section. So the entire book is about 90% new new recipes. And then 10% fan favorite recipes. Great hungry lady salad section is 18 recipes. So 14 of them are brand new, and four of them are fan favorite. Amazing.

Amy Sherman 23:37

Great. Yeah. Those salads, like I know, we talked about this last time, like you can make them and just have them for like how like a couple of days for the mom with your

Kat Ashmore 23:46

daughter and have them for a long time, even up to a week. I mean, it's yeah, that's I mean, that's what I'm always I'm always wanting to give back that gift of time. You know, one of the things we just never have enough of so taking advantage of when you have some time, make this salad have it in the fridge so that like you have something to look forward to for lunch every day. You know, it doesn't just get the job done. It's like and then you have more mental energy to think about dinner like it's all this all plays into each other. Like I don't want you waking up being like, what am I going to have for breakfast? What am I going to have for lunch? What am I going to have for dinner? You're not going to you're not going to do your best work that way.

Amy Sherman 24:28

It's, it's all laid out. Okay, so this book is truly gorgeous and stunning, like just the photos and the layout and all that stuff. What was your favorite part of like putting this together? I imagine it's such a creative and fun process and I'm sure very, very grueling as well but like what was your favorite part of the whole experience?

Kat Ashmore 24:48

I think my favorite part of the experience was crafting the story around the book. I'm very much a storyteller at heart that is at like the core of All of the content I do, and it has been the most common thread through my whole career, whether it was you know, telling stories on television with Martha or then on corporate side, or as a gourmet foods buyer telling the story on a retail level, and I love to write. So really creating the recipes. I mean, if I had my way I would be in my kitchen, listening to music, just creating recipes, writing recipes, editing recipes, from morning to night, that yeah, like it, there's nothing I love more. And I look at every recipe, like a story, like there are different characters that you need that round out the story. And they bring out certain things in each other. And it creates this like holistic, rich story. So creating the recipes. And then also just like writing the head notes about each recipe because it my communication style is very personal. I want people to feel like they are at home with me cooking with me. And I always love to read that in a cookbook. I want that. That personal element, you know, because it's in there are my favorite stories to read even even now. Yeah,

Amy Sherman 26:15

it's so true.

Katie Chandler 26:16

You do an excellent job with that. Feeling like someone is in in the kitchen cooking with you and

Amy Sherman 26:22

like a friend. Yeah,

Katie Chandler 26:23

it's definitely a piece of huge factor of your fan following and everything you just make. It's like you talk you're talking to your girlfriends or your friends about how to make something or, and that reminds me, we were speaking about it earlier, before we got on that you are fans that your followers are constantly asking you other questions about your life, not just about the food, because they feel like they know you so well. Right? I mean, you guys are very connected. So we were just talking about absolutely stunning your skin is so what skin is scanning all the things that are that's, you know, other things going on in your life like that gorgeous, glowing skin. How are you getting at? What are you doing?

Kat Ashmore 27:03

Thank you. You know, it's still so I'm so grateful and humbled by it. And I really receive all the compliments that I get around my skin now, because I wasn't historically someone that was complimented on their skin like not that it was like horrific at certain points. It just like wasn't that, you know, it wasn't notable. And so it's really amazing. I do work at it. I mean, there's a lot that I do, right? So some people are kind of like, Oh, that's too much. And it might be I mean, for me, I really

Amy Sherman 27:40

we need to hear the whole breakdown because we love this. We need to

Kat Ashmore 27:44

be entire everybody listening? Yes, I mean, take notes. So there's the topical stuff that I use the products and then there's the stuff that I use that I use and just lifestyle choices that help right like, I don't drink alcohol anymore. That helps. Yeah, that absolutely helps. Okay, so I'm just more hydrated on a regular basis, I eat a lot of whole foods that helps I drink a lot of water, that helps I do a cold blast at the end of my shower for 60 seconds. So like as cold as I can stand it. That helps, right? Like I do Transcendental Meditation every day. That helps, right like stress is all of it is reflected in your skin and in the way that you look and the way that you feel is also reflected right. So all of those lifestyle things matter. And then as far as like my skin routine, on a daily basis, how much like into the weeds Do you want me to go we want the weeds like the weeds. Amazing. Okay, so yeah, because it's like a non negotiable for me to do these things. So in the morning, I do my first skincare related thing I do is I do guasha every morning with a base oil. I am very like regimented with my mornings I wake up very early, usually around 434 45 I do like my workout in the mornings. I first thing I have is three two ounces of warm water with lemon and salt. Like those types of things. I do my guasha that's the first skincare related thing. And then I go upstairs before I get in the shower. And literally thinking of everything I did this morning. Before I get in the shower. I love it. I use an oil based cleanser. So I've been using is it better skin for better skin. I think that that's the name of it. Just some kind of an oil based cleanser. Yep. So I will just put that on. I hop in the shower, rinse it off. Like especially in the winter time I'm doing a lot of stuff that is hydrating even when it's cleansing. Yeah. So I will use that. I get out the net First thing I do is I put my toner on, I just like tap it all over my face my Declan Tay, my neck, my hands and then I will put on my red light therapy mask. Which do you guys use a red light therapy mask? Yeah,

Katie Chandler 30:14

fun. Yeah, I don't use it religiously. But I have one anytime you

Amy Sherman 30:17

have the Dr. Dennis gross one er, which one do you have?

Kat Ashmore 30:20

No, I have the current body one. Okay. And I have used it every day for four months. And it's made a really big difference in the, like, tone of my skin. I see brown spots have faded. That's like the biggest difference that I wow. That's how long do you wear it for? 10 minutes. Okay, so what I always do is I put on my robe, I put on the neck one and the face one. And then I do stuff like I pack the kids lunches. I'm never just like sitting hanging out, right? Like I'm always doing multiple things at once. So then I do that. I take that off. And then I use a serum I usually use so my friend Jenna launched a company called bios. And so I don't know if you see it and B Y O F stands for free. You have to look it up. It's like a pink. It's like a pink container. And it's basically like vitamin C and bakuchiol Is it bakuchiol gradient tavas li butchering it, but it's fantastic. It's, it's kind of touted as like a retinol alternative. I still use tret every few days at night, but it's just you know, I use some kind of serum. So I do my serum. And then after that I will do my moisturizer. So I've been loving the Dermalogica moisturizer lately. Fantastic. And then I spray the like a tanning spray. You know Santro PE spray. Oh yeah. So that gives you a really nice glow. And that's my morning is that like a crazy lot and then I take liquid collagen like when I go downstairs which is like completely changed my skin. But that has mostly just changed the skin from like, it's almost like a balloon was blown up in my skin. Yeah, when you plump? Very much so. Okay, it's time at

Amy Sherman 32:27

the gym because I want to shoot. Okay, so what's the nighttime routine?

Kat Ashmore 32:30

nighttime routine is I will do so I take off my makeup with either LMS or again, like an oil base. And I've been using the Dermalogica precleanse lately that I love. I love Dermalogica products, they sent me a bunch of stuff to try. And so I've been using the pre cleanse and I absolutely love it. It's really light. So I take that off. And then I do a second cleanse with just like a set of fill or something like gentle but like a proper cleanse, right? A double cleanse. Yep, yep, yep. And then every I switch it up a little bit where every few days I will use the P 50. By biology reshare shorts is like, great. It's strong. Yeah, I do that. Why is that? Yeah, every few nights, I would say I don't use that if I'm using Tretton Now when that night. I do try it like every third night as well. But one of the things that I swear by is it's called aisle lucette. And it's a French name.

Katie Chandler 33:30

I just ordered it. What is that? I

Kat Ashmore 33:34

use it every single night. It's unbelievable. Do you know how to use it? No.

Katie Chandler 33:37

I was gonna do my research before I came. I ordered it like yesterday.

Kat Ashmore 33:42

Yeah, it is very potent ironic acid cream. Okay, the treatment so it, it won't like burn your skin or anything. I mean, it's like a very nourishing treatment. But you basically put it on damp skin. So I will do that. Like right after I have the toner, I'll just put a little bit of water on my skin. Take like a good sized amount. It's not expensive, which is part of why I like it, because sometimes they'd be like, if something's too expensive. I don't want to use a lot of it. So it's like you can use a good amount. And I just put it all over my face to the point where it looks pretty white still. And then I will just take a little bit of a thick moisturizer like Egyptian magic or something like that. And then I just like Pat, I kind of slug it in in that sense. And you wake up with the most moisturized glowy Oh, yeah. So now I have like French pharmacy

Amy Sherman 34:44

same caterers just talking about that. Yeah, I need to order that. It sounds amazing. So do you do that when you put retinol on because I use Trent known as well. Like is it that you do that on top of the Trent Nolan?

Kat Ashmore 34:54

I do. Okay, some people say not to me You know, you hear different things, whatever. I think you have to be your own physician to play with your cover. What? Yes, exactly. I, I do I find it very, very nourishing. And I'll do a face mask like, maybe once a week. Yeah. Nothing crazy. But that. Yeah, that's one of my favorite products. And that's

Katie Chandler 35:22

what I read about that product is that it pulls moisture into your skin from wherever you're adding the moisture. So like you said, Your face has to be damp before and then you're putting on like a heavy slugging cream afterwards. It's really helping that moisture seep into your skin. So if you read if you use it while your face is dry, and then you don't follow up with a moisturizer, it will actually dehydrate your skin because it'll pull the moisture out.

Kat Ashmore 35:48

And that makes sense. Yeah, so a lot of sense. I like to know the why behind things. So I Yeah, hearing that, because I wasn't aware of that. I just knew you needed to use it on damp skin. Yeah, it's really, it's really fantastic. And then I use that canopy humidifier. Yeah, yeah. So I use that every night. And so I love that you just gave us the whole like, nitty gritty detail because we Yeah, I love that I am like the opposite of a gatekeeper like I want, I will share everything I know it

Amy Sherman 36:24

or not. So I ordered the college and because I had seen you talk about it so many times. And I was like, I need to order this and obviously your skin looks amazing. So I just started at like, I haven't been super disciplined. But lately I have been but I got it maybe like a month ago, so I don't Okay. You know, I know you said it has to you have to do for like a few months for you to like start here for a month. Yeah, we'd

Kat Ashmore 36:43

say yeah, I mean, it worked for me quickly. It was like within the first five weeks, I would say Okay, everybody started commenting on it to me. Wow. My followers like I wasn't planning on even sharing it for three months. Yeah, people are like, what are you you know, asking all these questions and now

Amy Sherman 37:03

you do like the two teaspoons in the morning or two tables table. Every morning.

Kat Ashmore 37:07

My husband takes it now my mom takes a deep dive on me. It's been this it's Modere Okay, and if you see like my the before and afters my college and highlight it's like comical.

Amy Sherman 37:22

No, I watch I was like, before I bought it, I watched it. I'm like, this is incredible. I mean, it's what year the plane was like, I got the one that you recommended, like the plane one it kind of tastes like here. It's like a Yeah, like part. Oh, yes. It's not bad. But there's also flavored ones. Do they kind of work the same? Yes.

Kat Ashmore 37:41

So they're all the same amount of collagen? Yeah. But like it also has hyaluronic acid in it too. Right? So it's like you see a lot of these same ingredients. It's just like I mean, the college is expensive but you can you get what you pay for like I use less Botox now. And I don't use any like eyelash serum anymore.

Amy Sherman 38:03

Oh, really? So it's affecting like your hair grow?

Kat Ashmore 38:06

Yes.

Amy Sherman 38:07

Wow.

Katie Chandler 38:08

What a good for nails also right like the

Kat Ashmore 38:10

the strain our joints? If you I mean, I have been takes it because of his joints. Like he has no shoulder pain for the first time in like 15 years. Wow. It's great. Yeah, it's really good. I mean, I know I get offers. I get like brand deal offers from different supplement companies and stuff like that constantly. You know, I'm going to be very selective with who I work with. Because I don't want to be doing a million different things. Like I want to be doing stuff that works.

Amy Sherman 38:40

And we trust you. I also bought the walking desk, like not the walking desk, the treadmill from you. And it's so funny, because you just I had been researching for a while and then I like forgot about it. And then I saw yours. I'm like, I'm just getting on and she recommends because I know it's good. And that's been so nice. Just not be sitting all day and just like walking during the day. So that's great, because I've noticed, like, obviously, you have so much content around cooking, but now you have a lot of like great lifestyle content. Like I'm wondering, I'm like staring at your sweater slash sweatshirt. I'm like, is that an Amazon or is it here? You

Kat Ashmore 39:13

get it? Like I love it isn't deadly, Steven? Okay. Yeah, it's, you know, it's the kind of thing where I think very much like Martha in a way, like she started out in catering. You know, she became a firebrand. And I just, I've always operated in the sense where I am going to listen to what people want from me. And I'm not going to I'm not going to sit here and think I know what people should want to see from me. I'm going to talk about I mean, like, I am a like, I'm very passionate about the things that I believe in and like creating a life that I'm excited to wake up to every morning. So I talk about it all. I love it and

Katie Chandler 39:56

it's working for you obviously.

Kat Ashmore 39:58

There are so Many food creators and there's so many websites Food Network New York Times cookie, if you just want recipes, go there like, yeah, the only thing that's really different about what I do is that I'm doing it. So I my content is very personality forward like, people better than me, people are taking better photos than me people are putting together better outfits than me. But like, I'm the only unique thing about my brand.

Amy Sherman 40:28

That's right. That's right. And you know what, I always like to follow people like you that have a specialty, right? But then you start seeing their lifestyle, and you get to know them more personally, because that's when you like, can really connect and start trusting and like it just it makes just for better overall content and like, whatever. So we love it all. And you are going on a book tour. I'm read so let's hear about that. Like where where's it starting? Because I was just saying to Katie, I think you're like your first stop is near her. I was like, Katie, you gotta go. Yes.

Kat Ashmore 41:02

So the first event is going to be the 23rd in Madison at RJ Giulia And then third, okay. And then it rolls out where I'm going to be in Danbury of Barnes and Noble there, I'm going to be at the Del Mar in Greenwich for a really fun event. And the kitchen Atlas scowl is going to be making a few of my recipes for the appetizers from the book. So it's really fun. And then I'll be traveling a bit where I'll be in, you know, I'll be in Rhode Island at the William Sonoma in New York at Columbus Circle Boston, Dallas, Texas, I'm going to be hosting an event with my friend Alex from the Define dish. And we're going to be hosting an event together and then Houston and more stops may be added. But I have the full list on both my website and my Instagram. Okay, yeah, you need to come. I know, I'm actually surprised that we haven't prioritized DC yet. I mean, a lot of it is just based on analytics. Right. And we're on the ground. shoveler Yeah, most people are, but I know that I've got we've got a lot of people in DC for sure. Because if you can let me know, as well. Yeah, no, definitely.

Amy Sherman 42:21

I can interview live, we could do an ironic live q&a from the audience. You see what I'm saying? I got it. I got. Um, one other thing I wanted to mention, I know we talked about it last time, and you mentioned it reasonably somewhere. But and I again, always think of you about this, like, what can I add to my plate like that philosophy? So like, if I'm making a salad or I'm making like yogurt in the morning, I think to myself, like, what can I add? That's like healthy that's gonna see shaped me. Like, can I add that? Can I add whatever and like, that has stuck with me. I think it's such a good tip. Yeah, I'm

Kat Ashmore 42:51

so glad it's been huge. For me. It's really been huge for me, because I don't snack that often. Now, and I don't even realize that I don't really snack until people are like, knows that. Like, it's crazy to some people, but my meals are really satiating. So I just, I don't snack that much. And

Amy Sherman 43:12

I need to make I saw in the cookbook, and then I noticed it on your feed when I looked because I totally missed this one over the holidays. Like I love peppermint cookies or anything like peppermint around the holidays. And I saw those peppermint cookies. I was like, You know what I really need to make that they look

Kat Ashmore 43:26

No, they're so good. Yeah, my seven year old said that those are the best cookies he's had in his life so far. Like, well, I mean, that is the ultimate review. Yeah, absolutely. Like, you'll note that there's granulated sugar, and there's butter. Yeah, there. Yeah, I am not afraid of classic baking ingredients and not afraid of any ingredients. I want. A cookie tastes like a really good cookie. So

Amy Sherman 43:57

if you're gonna have it, you might as well. Yeah, we're just

Kat Ashmore 44:00

like, how much do we actually need? And by cutting back on this, what changes do I need to make so that we still get the texture we want? We still get the Browning we want. You know all of that. That's just that's my way. But

Katie Chandler 44:14

we're still letting a cookie be a cookie. Yeah,

Kat Ashmore 44:16

very much. And again, that way you aren't feeling like, Oh, I'm going to this place. Do I need to make like, healthy cookies that I'm going to want to eat? Or do I need to make like totally indulgent cookies that I can't eat but other people will enjoy? It's like, No, you can you can do both.

Amy Sherman 44:33

You can do both. Okay, like we could literally talk to you all day. We love you. We love like so fun. I just like and we need to meet in person. So Katie, and I need your book tours like this is

Kat Ashmore 44:45

great. We have to make that happen. Email me and we'll we'll chat about

Amy Sherman 44:49

that. Well, we'll figure out something. So let's get into our little rap session. I know we did this last time but I'm sure well, we basically like the first question what's your favorite wellness or beauty hack? I feel like we went through your whole routine. So we Love it. But just give us one thing like your favorite hack.

Kat Ashmore 45:02

Yeah, I'm okay. My favorite wellness hack, I will say because this is a mental wellness and we haven't talked about it but yeah complimenting a stranger a day. I do it every day. Oh, I love

Katie Chandler 45:13

that. I think I saw that on your content at some point. Did you talk about it at some point?

Kat Ashmore 45:17

Yeah, I have I've talked about until that's why I compliment one stranger a day. And I will also like, anytime I go to the grocery store, I get an extra bouquet of flowers, and then I will give it to someone in the parking lot. Sometimes they have to, like be a little bit creepy and like, follow people to their car. Because there aren't a lot of people here today. But I do it for myself. I love that when I'm having a bad day. It's this storyline of like, I'm not any good. I'm not enough. That's usually what is at the heart of it. So like, the best way for me to get back in touch with my goodness is by doing a good deed. And so instantly, I feel like I'm a good person. So it's not completely all altruistic. And

Amy Sherman 46:05

yeah, it makes you feel good. And it makes make someone's day.

Kat Ashmore 46:09

That's completely. Yeah, I swear by.

Katie Chandler 46:14

It shuts down those automatic negative thoughts that we all have. Right. It's like,

Kat Ashmore 46:19

quiet outside yourself. Yeah. That's great.

Katie Chandler 46:24

All right. So you gave us the play by play of the routine. What's the five minute flow? How you get out the door quickly? Uber's right around the corner.

Kat Ashmore 46:34

That was this morning for me literally before I had to jump on to something. So the one so I have I've been under painting, which I swear by doing, you know, the contour or bronzer and the blush, whatever underneath, whatever kind of foundation you're wearing. Or tinted sunscreen, but I have been using this slip tent by

Amy Sherman 46:59

Oh, I use that. So good. I'm obsessed with

Kat Ashmore 47:03

that. So I'm obsessed with it. I love the Ilia Skin Tint too, but like this is my newest obsession. And this concealer by Natasha de Nonna. Oh, I've heard of Yeah, I've heard of Taylor I've ever used really filler of every list. Yes. Yes. You can like bring it down. If you're not wearing anything else. You can bring it down a bit and just spot treat and treat that as like you're on vacation. Yeah, so that is like, huge. And then I will be like very much like a multiuse person where if I'm putting a little bit on my lip, I'll just like that, you know, dab it on making you and then Thrive mascara is my jam. I use that with a CoverGirl primer. Perfect. I don't know. Yeah. Just quick out the door. Yeah, but you know what it is? Don't Don't you feel like it's the high maintenance to be low maintenance thing, because I do so much with my skincare. I don't 100% do that much.

Amy Sherman 48:04

I don't need to do that. Yeah, I also find and Katie, and I've talked about this before, like the older you get, the less makeup, you need to if you're taking care of your skin like yeah, makeup doesn't look as good as like because your texture is different. So like, the less you can wear the better. But to your point, you got to do a lot of stuff to make it where your skin looks dead. So you don't really have to wear much, but just like a little thing here or there.

Katie Chandler 48:25

That's right. Yeah. Yeah, too much makeup. The older you get. I feel like is ages,

Amy Sherman 48:30

people who didn't do it totally does it totally. The

Katie Chandler 48:33

base has to be in shape. The skins got to be Yeah, on point. All right. So I know what your how you maintain your daily nirvana. Remember what you said last time? I'm curious what it is this time if it's same or not? How do you maintain that?

Kat Ashmore 48:48

Meditation is huge for me. That's like, oh, that's one of the big I mean, it's a non negotiable, it has totally changed my life where I'm just so much less reactive to external circumstances. It grounds me in something really solid. So that's huge. And also daily movement exercises. Like some kind of daily movement, whether it's, you know, walking, doing an incline walk in the morning, going to a, you know, a bar class, just like working my body out.

Amy Sherman 49:20

It just like something. You got it. Yeah.

Katie Chandler 49:23

You've been practicing Transcendental Meditation for years, right?

Kat Ashmore 49:26

I have. Yeah.

Amy Sherman 49:27

Anyway, you're doing that at some point. You inspired

Katie Chandler 49:30

me to find the Westport or the, you know, the Fairfield County representative here and I started working with her. Like a year ago, I hung up with her for a while I've fallen off I need to go to one of them. You know, like, refresher.

Kat Ashmore 49:45

Yeah. Just to get you back then. Yeah, yeah, of course. And, you know, meditation is one of those things where people always feel like I'm not good at it. And it's just like, nobody's good at it. Right? Right. was against everything in us as a human to like, it's hard, or water.

Amy Sherman 50:05

I appreciate it when I do it. I really don't do it a lot. But when I do it, I appreciate it so much. And I have to I feel like at least for me, because I'm not I don't do TM or anything like that I'll just do like a, Melissa would help like just someone guiding me and that helps. But I really need to force myself to do it more because you're right, like every time I do it, I feel so much more grounded. I just like don't worry, you know, put it in your calendar. If you do that's the way that I implement a new habit is I put it Yeah, calendar I put it in my phone. Repeat every day. Well, I have my I put this on our Instagram, but I have my like, my yearly mood board on my screensaver as my phone and it literally the best tip like we're kidding are building your year to doing this. It takes two seconds you like do it on your Well, this one, I think I made this one make a mood board. You basically you could do it a super easy way. Or you could make it more complicated. But the super easy way to do it is you take nine photos from your phone like you could just find inspo anywhere like, quote on Instagram, it's something from patients wherever you just take those last nine photos in your phone, you screenshot it and you put it as a screensaver. It's like the easiest thing. This I think I made in like Canva, which took me two seconds. But I just took a bunch of things. I literally downloaded it and now it's on my screen. And so it's like my reminders of are my things that I want to do that. I'm ready to go fast. Because I've been every year I always have these things. And it's like I write it down. And then I never look at it. And this was like, I started doing the nine photos. But then I was like We don't want to add more things. So then I of course like wanted to make a fun collage. But the easiest way is just like take a screenshot of this last name photos, or 12 manifest

Kat Ashmore 51:51

whatever it is. I just wrote it down. Yeah.

Amy Sherman 51:53

I love that. Yeah, we want to hear. So it's been it's fabulous. Yeah, I I love it. And I actually there's this quote on here that I had last year and I carried it over to the shirt. And my husband was like, will you sent me that quote, which was so cute. And the quote is, and it's by this person, Judy Haller, who's actually just like, she's like a keynote speaker. I've just been following her for years. And the quote is, assume the best will happen. Which I love. Because how many times are we always like, oh, like you always think negative. You're like, Oh, what if this happens? What if my husband's like, very skeptical about everything? So like, he saw that quote, and he was like, Oh, can I have that? And I was like, Yeah, I mean,

Kat Ashmore 52:34

that too.

Amy Sherman 52:36

I mean, yeah, that's so it's like, such a good thing to think about, because there's so many times right, where you're like, thinking through something, and then sometimes I'll just change my mindset will be like, but what if this happens instead? You know, even even with my kids like, a basketball game, well, what if I do that or whatever? But what if you don't? What if this happens, right? Like, right, he might spend

Kat Ashmore 52:58

time projecting the future you might as well do it positively.

Katie Chandler 53:01

Or just for what you want. Yeah, I

Kat Ashmore 53:05

love that. Yeah.

Amy Sherman 53:06

Anyway, well, like I said, we could talk all day, but this is nice. Thank you for your time was so good. Everybody, check out cash, Moore's book, big bites, and of course, she's on Instagram and Tiktok and all the things. We love it. We love you. Thank you so much for coming back. Congratulations on everything and we will chat soon. Can't wait. Thank

Kat Ashmore 53:27

you so much for having me.

Amy Sherman 53:30

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to buy

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Episode 141 - The Most Accessible Wellbeing Tips For Life Satisfaction & Happiness With Sally Joy Wolf (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 141 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Speaker A: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker B: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome to the show Nirvana Sisters. Today we are sitting down with Sally Joy Wolf. She is a well being, advisor, advocate and keynote speaker who empowers and inspires others to flourish. She loves creating fun and unique corporate workshops, integrating themes such as meaning and purpose, post traumatic growth, authentic and vulnerable, leadership and positivity. Her work integrates her studies at Harvard and Stanford, her certifications in positive psychology, coaching, resilience, meditation and spark type advising, and her lived experience with metastatic breast cancer. Sally is a LinkedIn top voice whose work has been featured in media including Allure, the independent, Glamour, Netflix, health and entrepreneur. And her cancer journey was just recently profiled on Good Morning America and CBS New York. So a lot of media accolades and exposure and for good reason. So we're excited to have you here. Hi, Sally.

Speaker C: Hi. I'm so excited we're finally sitting down.

Speaker B: All right, well, we're going to start with our nirvana of the week and I'm going to kick it to Amy to get us started there.

Speaker C: I would say this week was a.

Speaker A: Very busy week because it's, know, what are we, like 2nd, 3rd week back from the holiday? And so everything has been really kicking in. And so for my other job, I had a very big deliverable that I got done and sent out last night. And so I feel really good about like, okay, done. Next. It was just like one of those things that was wearing on me, so it just felt good to press that button.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: See you later.

Speaker B: That's nice.

Speaker A: What about you, Katie?

Speaker B: Mine's kind of similar. I had on Wednesday, I ended up not having to work in the city, so I had a day at home and I had a laundry list like this long of all the things to do, things for the podcast, things for the house, things for the kids. And it was like one of those wonderfully productive days where everything got done without me being frazzled and stressed over it. I was able to just do like check and that was for sure. By the end of the day I was like, oh, what a great day I had. I feel so productive and accomplished.

Speaker A: I know you're like every day just be so productive.

Speaker B: So I think that was it. What about you, Sally?

Speaker C: So actually, also from Wednesday, I had my first print byline last year, which was really meaningful because I grew up in the magazine industry, and the piece that I wrote was an essay about a dear mentor and boss who unfortunately passed away. And the piece was specifically about this necklace I'm actually wearing that I wear often, that she gifted me, and the lasting legacy that people can leave. So I had held on sharing it publicly until her birthday, which was this Wednesday, and that just gave it a little extra meaning for me and a deeper connection. And then it led to a beautiful catch up with another former colleague yesterday. That happened because she saw the piece. So just that gift of one thing leading to another and feeling very meant to be in that.

Speaker B: I love that. That's fantastic. All right, well, let's kick it off, because I feel like we have some great things to cover, and I'm just excited to pick your brain on all things. I know you work with a lot of people on positivity and being present and being resilient. And so what are some of the key points that you teach people, for example, maybe positive tools for being more resilient?

Speaker C: Sure. And it's such a good point in the year, I think, to have this conversation because people often use the new year. I mean, we can do a reset anytime, but especially after feeling frazzled in the holidays, I think there's a lot of this. How can I be more present in the new year? How can I be more positive or resilient or whatever word people go to? I always start with gratitude, which I know seems like it gets a lot of airtime, but the reality is it gets a lot of airtime. People talk about it a lot because it's actually scientifically proven to work well for us. And I also start there because I find that it's usually accessible for people in a way that some of the deeper stuff that I think we'll talk about in our conversation, like meaning and purpose, can be a little bit more challenging. So starting with gratitude. I've listened to several of your episodes, and I know a lot of people talk about food and nutrients and well being and how we nourish our bodies. So, like kale and quinoa, I know, are kind of like those superfoods. Gratitude is that for our well being from a positive psychology perspective. So going through your day and saying, at the end of the day or in the morning, in the next morning, I'm going to write down three things I feel grateful for, or if three feels too hard to start with one. Right. But being mindful about that, the beauty of it is that you start to notice that gratitude can come in really small pieces. And it doesn't have to be alone, meaning you're not necessarily going to have a day where all you feel is gratitude or grateful. So gratitude can coexist with something that might feel darker. Like you can be sad and grateful at the same time. You can be struggling and also grateful for what is going right. And so I love to start with gratitude because people can usually find that one or two or three things a day. And the last thing I'll say on that is that when you start to prime yourself for it, you notice far more than you expect. So maybe day one or two or three is one thing, two thing, but then by a week and two weeks and you start to have this practice, you're going to have, like, a list of eight, maybe not every day, but a list of ten. Because you're going to be in a moment and be able to just almost know that that's a moment you're going to want to recall later, because it is a moment where you're feeling tapped into something deeper. And so going along with gratitude is also really being present, which you actually mentioned earlier. So many people love to talk about how good they are at multitasking. We are not good at. No one is good at multitasking in the way that I think people think they are. And I have one friend who's an exception. She's a quadruplet. So I kid that my friend Jodi has been multitasking since the womb. But Jodi aside, we think we're okay and, right, you get a notification and takes you down this rabbit hole and you're not really present in something else, or when you're with your kids or for me, I'm an auntie, and we're so excited to be with them. And then we're on a device or we're doing something else. And so what happens is that we're not really experiencing that moment as deeply as we could be, and we're less likely to actually genuinely appreciate and enjoy it. We're also less likely to remember it in a way where it can actually boost our positivity. So really savoring. So gratitude is sort of like that. Can I appreciate this? Can I find something that is elevating to me for my day or whatever it may be, or in that moment? And savoring is really about being super mindful and activating. I like to think of it as activating all your senses. And if you can activate those two things, gratitude and a bit of savoring in every day. You are setting yourself up for a really good day, week, month, year.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny. Our nirvana that we were just talking about that we do is sort of kind of in that same vein, like trying to pick out that small thing in the day that brought you joy, brought you a smile that made you grateful.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: So I love that. It's a good point and something we should consistently be remembering because they can be small things. It doesn't have to be some major thing.

Speaker C: Right. And scientifically, it's shown to make a huge, measurable difference, like quantifiable difference in how we would describe our own individual life satisfaction. So we think that things like our life experience dominate. Like, well, how good of a life? How satisfied am I? How happy am I? We think things like falling in love or getting the dream job or having a healthy child, those are all important good life experiences for some people. Or on the more challenging side, having a serious diagnosis or deep grief or whatever it may be, that's life experience, too. We think that will dominate our pie, meaning a pie chart of how content am I? And yes, in those moments, those are a big deal. But science shows that only about 10% of life satisfaction really ties to life experience, and about 40% is tied to mindset and gratitude and savoring, and also going through life with that sense of awe and appreciation. Those three things are all connected like that. Awe, gratitude and savoring. It actually is responsible for about 40% of life satisfaction and happiness. So the reason I start with gratitude and savoring when I'm talking to people about this is because it makes a measurable.

Speaker B: It's really interesting because gratitude, I believe, begets positivity. Right? I mean, that's the idea is that if you're taking a moment to reflect on something that you're thankful for, that's something that is typically positive. It can really shift your mood and your mindset for the day. It can really shift what you are expecting out of your day. Instead of waking up and stressing out about all the things that need to get done, whether or not I have time to get it done. And starting the foot with the negative, stressed, scared mindset, you're saying shift and start with gratitude and the savoring piece, I really can appreciate that. And I think that is, do you find that it's hard for people to do that? Because that requires people to kind of slow down, take it in, stop multitasking, like you said. I mean, there's been times in my life where I was trying to do everything at once. Be the mom, do this, do that, do this, do that, and next thing you know, the day is over and you're pulling your hair out of your head. So to be able to compartmentalize things that you need to do in your life at certain times, live in the moment, how do you advise people to achieve that?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, first of all, yes, it is hard. And we all are juggling so many different responsibilities and hats or titles or however you think about it. And so I think there needs to be a bit of self compassion and sort of just acceptance that not every day is going to be a day where you are able to focus 100% all the time on the single thing that you're doing. Right. So just starting with the fact that it's hard, and at the same time, there are little micro steps that we can take to set ourselves up for better success. And I'm a big believer. So I don't really do New Year's resolutions anymore. There's so many things written about how by mid January, crazy percentage of people have already dropped the resolution, sometimes by January 2 or third. And I think that often happens because they're so big and so right. Like December 31 happens, and you're doing all these things that maybe you say, oh, this isn't so good, but tomorrow I'm going to stop this. Come on. So I'm a big believer in consistent, small steps leading to big lasting change. And so with respect to the multitasking or the savoring and the full presence, look at our phones. Love to tell us how much were we on the phone last week or the devices? So can I cut that by 10% this week, or can I set limits that help set me up for success? Because I do think the screens are often the biggest source of distraction, and they're created to distract us. Notifications are meant to. There's a reason they're red. Something I did just at the beginning of this year, which I think is working. We'll see. What the data says is I put my phone on more of a grayscale than a color, which I had heard the color is like kid in a candy store. It's just meant to activate things in our brain and make us go back for more and more. And social media is designed for that especially. And so I changed that ever so slightly. It's a lot less exciting. Like, the pictures aren't as vivid, the notifications aren't red. It sounds little and silly, but it's actually not silly. And then I was mindful especially with the first few days of the year when I was in Connecticut at my sister's and with her kids. And I don't get to be with them as much as I might want to. You know, we tell them to get off their iPad sometimes, and then what are we doing? Like, the phone is right there. And so I was very mindful about, no, I'm ice skating right now. Nothing is needing me. Right. No, I am doing this right now. And whatever it is, and I'm going to enjoy this more if I am not checking something else. And the truth is, I realized it at the end of that first day. I realized I felt a difference. I felt less anxious having grabbed my phone less. I felt better about the memories I had made that day, meaning they were clearer, more salient. I could savor them more because I had been more present while I was experiencing them. And so I think that's the best first step in general, is to just try to 10% here, like, say, this next hour or today, I'm going to turn my notifications off at 08:00 p.m. To try that or put my phone down an hour earlier or not grab it first thing in the morning. Like, little achievable things. Sometimes they'll be achievable, sometimes they won't. It depends on the person. It depends how important it is to you. And then asking yourself, did this change? It's really like a little scientific experiment with yourself. So did this little experiment of turning notifications off for an hour, did I feel better or worse after? And if you felt better, the reason we don't then keep doing that is we worry about, will my office need me? Will I miss something important and then kind of say, like, okay, well, what did I not see in that hour that I didn't get notified more often than not, absolutely nothing.

Speaker B: And it doesn't have to be all day where your notifications are turned off. It's like when we're with our family or when we're working, if we can be really tuned in and focused on that moment and not distracted by the outside things, you can get more done and have more of a savoring experience in that brief amount of time because you're present instead of. Sometimes I would be with the kids, not just when I was a stay at home mom, only not working in addition to and distracted by all the things. But I'm with them all day, and I realized I was half there, I'm half with them. And so it's not as enjoyable and it's very stressful because I'm thinking about all of these outside things that I have to get done. So instead it's like quality over quantity.

Speaker C: Yeah. Look, when you're half here and half there, you're not an either, right? It's like this unsteadiness. And I don't know about you, I find myself, like, even just a show that I'm enjoying binging or watching or whatever it may be. Sometimes I'm rewinding, like, I don't even want to admit how many times, because.

Speaker A: I realize your mind starts wondering.

Speaker C: I just, look, just going to reply to this one email while I'm watching this one thing, and I'm like. And then I'm like, the episode ended, so checked out. And that's what often happens. Or, like, I get a notification, I go to do one thing on my computer, I actually get distracted by something else, do other things, and I walk away without having done the one thing I intended to do because I'm not fully present. And so that's the other thing. Even when you learn all of these well being tips, and you both are expert in such a breadth of well being in terms of what you've covered here on the podcast, and yet, I'm sure for you as well as for me, I know it's a decision to break in and to use what we rate. I start off with two questions whenever I am working with clients, and most of my clients are in the corporate space, but it's all well being work, and the questions tend to be a version of how knowledgeable are you about well being? And then how often do you use the knowledge? And there's always a drop, right? Because we can know all the things that are good for us, and then there's a real moment, and we're human and we get distracted. So I think it's a constant choice, like you were saying, katie, to lean into that time with your kids when you're with them or whatever.

Speaker B: And it's not always doable.

Speaker A: It is a practice, and it is something that you have to continually build. It's like building a muscle. Because even, like phones aside, sometimes when I'm in a conversation with someone, my mind is going a million miles an hour, and I can't focus on the person. So I have to just remind myself in my head, okay, just listen to what they're saying, breathe, calm down. And then to try to clear my mind. But it doesn't happen overnight. You just have to keep reminding yourself. And I feel like, keep building that muscle. But you're right, it is a choice that you have to make every day, every conversation. It doesn't just automatically happen.

Speaker C: I love that you just said that. Because that's why I said at the very beginning, start with that self compassion and kindness and that breath. Because none of us are going to be perfect or always having a day where all of this feels accessible to us. We're human. Even any well being expert, if they're being honest, I would say that, yeah.

Speaker A: It'S funny that you said that about the grayscale. I was just listening to a podcast the other day that was talking exactly about that. There was a study, and then when people put their phones on Grayscale, they used it like, I don't remember the number, but much less of the amount because it wasn't as exciting. And it went through this whole history of video games and how they were created, and it all started with slot machines. It was like this incredible history of how these addictive types of screens started and they feed into the addiction. But the point, I guess, that I'm making is that I think the awareness of all of these things make all of these decisions easier. So just like anything else, if you kind of understand the why behind it, or are aware that you're not paying attention, you're going to pay attention more, or aware that, oh, I want to use my phone 10% less today. It's like the choices and the awareness is like that first step, because then you can make it happen more than just sort of going through life without any hundred recognition.

Speaker C: I don't know about this grayscale.

Speaker B: I have to educate myself on the grayscale thing.

Speaker A: You do it through accessibility or something.

Speaker C: Exactly. Look. And so often I think that's true, it probably did begin as an access. It's in the accessibility section of the iPhone. And I think that's because it probably began as something for someone who might have had colorblindness or something else. But it's actually a great hack for everyone to try. If you find yourself on there a lot, because it's just a lot less exciting, I will say I've already had moments. And it's also interesting to see how quickly you adapt to things as a human, which is a strength that all of us has meaning. Like, in this case, adapted to it. And I forgot I had done it, and I was like, wow, these pictures, like, kind of dull. I forgot that. I'm like, suddenly why does the whole world. I'm like, oh, right, I did that. I chose that all right, well, I.

Speaker B: Want to talk a little bit about showing up as your true authentic self in everything that you do. And I can imagine that I know you work with a lot of people in the corporate space, that this is something that you cover a lot there. And personally, as someone, I don't think I ever felt like I was truly stepping into every moment as my authentic self until I was in my forty s. And I don't know why. I know I'm not alone in this. I've heard a lot of people say this, but it's not always easy to do. We're influenced by other people. We have our own insecurities and it can take us into all these different directions, and then that can steamroll and spiral and make people show up in a way that isn't authentic to themselves. So let's talk a little bit about that and how you work with people there.

Speaker C: Sure. Authenticity has gotten a lot of attention recently. I think it was actually the word of the year from one of the dictionaries last year. And it's like all of a sudden everyone everates. So I feel like everyone will be talking about it throughout the year. I've thought a lot about authenticity, really, from the early before I was doing well, being work directly. I was very conscious of having spent about 20 years in the corporate world, high pressured kind of environments, management consulting, a little banking, and then in house at a bunch of media companies. And I remember early on in the corporate know, being pretty young, out of college and getting all this advice about your work self and your other self. And I never really understood it because to me, I was myself and I was Sally and I felt best at work when I was really getting to know people and really connecting. And ultimately I made a lot of friends at work. And there are people decades later I'm still in touch with. And that was true at every job. So I constantly was kind of going back. And I had studied psychology as an undergrad and then before Brene Brown was a household name, when she had this TED talk that many people, it ended up being most popular ever. But I feel like I saw it before most people had. And it was all about vulnerability. And I just remembered thinking like, this is actually where the magic happens. And so it's not that being vulnerable or being authentic or whatever other words come up for people, but really about showing up as your true self or your full self. That doesn't mean that every single detail of your life has to be shared with every single person in whatever the place is right. So I just want to say that explicitly because I think that's where a lot of people struggle or kind of resist this sense of being authentic or vulnerable, that it's some sort of detrimental thing or there are things that they want to keep private. Absolutely. Brene Brown has this beautiful quote that I love about we share our stories with those who have heard the right to hear them. And so you choose, and there are layers of how deep you go, probably with different colleagues or different people, right. You meet at a conference or whatever it may be in the workspace or neighbors or all of that. But what I do with people when I'm working with people, especially when I'm working with a big group at a company, and they're all colleagues and it's a version of professional development, but it's really about, it's all based on positive psychology, which is the science of human flourishing, which means you start with your own self awareness and get to know yourself. And then because you get to know yourself better. What are my triggers? What are my glimmers? Which are the opposite of triggers, like the things that get me really excited, what elevates me during the day, what depletes me, and then also sharing that with others and being able. And you can share that without having to talk about anything going on in the workplace at that moment. I'll ask people to whip out their phones and pick up a photo from their favorites folder, or maybe it's their screen saver folder, their screen saver on their phone, and they'll be in a breakout. Or if it's in person, the person beside them and talking about that photo. And what about it makes it such a favorite for them? Because what they're going to do is tap into their own sense of probably gratitude, inspiration. It's going to be authentic because they're picking something they already love. And then that's a beautiful way to start to connect with people more deeply. Doesn't have to be dark. It doesn't have to be your deepest fear, something that frustrated you about someone else. And the real definition of vulnerability, which a lot of people don't realize is about, it's an uncertainty in emotion and how sort of like something might be received, but it doesn't have to be from something dark. Giving someone a compliment has an element of vulnerability because you don't know how it's going to be received. You're taking a risk. And so that's where I usually start, with authenticity and with vulnerability. And there's this great cartoon that I saw it on Facebook. I have no idea who to credit for this. It is two frames, and it's two black and white stick figures. You don't know what gender, nothing about them, right? Totally discernible. First frame, I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Sounds a little dirty. You don't know where it's going to go. And the second frame, the I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Two black and white stick figures. Second frame, they both reveal these big, huge red hearts. That's it. That's authenticity.

Speaker A: That's vulnerability. Yeah.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: What we all want.

Speaker A: I think, in social media, which is the field that I work in, there's been a lot of discussion over many, many years about authenticity in social media. And I think TikTok has made that more relevant, because for the most part, when that platform started or when it started to become bim, I think big. I think people liked it because the content on there felt more authentic. It felt more relatable. People are talking about, it could be something deep, but it could be something light, but they're not using a filter, or they're just being their true self. So therefore, it's more relatable. Therefore, you're going to keep watching. And so I think you're starting, or will or do see a movement in that space where people are coming on camera and they have a pimple on their face, or they're not perfectly made up. And I think that makes it easier for everybody else because they feel like, okay, I can connect with people on social media or whatever, and I don't have to feel like I have to be perfect.

Speaker C: Yeah. And we connect more. We've trained ourselves to think that being perfect, appearing perfect, looking like I was the biggest victim, feels like the wrong word, but the biggest perpetrator of this, in terms of the story I told myself, I had to go to Harvard because I decided it was the best. I mean, now it's like they need some brand help right now. But when I was growing up, I had heard, I read somewhere Harvard was the number one school. And then I was like, I got to go there. And I wanted to get certain jobs, know, look a certain way. I had, like a million theory dresses. They're all. And blew my hair every day. And all of then, and I had a cancer diagnosis, and suddenly there are real scars and surgical drains and fatigue and all these things. And I will tell you that that was and is, it's an ongoing health situation for me. One of the hardest experiences of my life, probably the hardest and also one of the best in what it has gifted me in terms of genuine human connection, because it's when we let down that facade of perfect and actually let people in. You want to talk about real well being. Well being is, more than anything else, based on real, deep human connection. And that happens from difficult life moments so much more quickly and organically, I think, than it does from when times are good, when they're quote unquote well.

Speaker A: It'S also like, just like when you have friends, right? You tend to gravitate towards the friends that are vulnerable, that are telling you something that's not so perfect, because you're like, that's who I want to talk to. I want to have a deeper conversation. I don't want to have a surface conversation with someone, but if someone tells me a little bit about themselves that's more personal and more authentic, then I'm going to want to say something, too. And then you want to be around that person because they make you feel comfortable.

Speaker C: I strongly agree. I have found that ever since my. So I was first diagnosed a little over eight years ago and went through kind of early stage breast cancer with a double mastectomy and several months of chemo. Was bald, kind of what most people visualize. And then about two years later, it had been detected again. My oncologist felt another lump beside an implant where I wasn't really supposed to have breast tissue. And also a full body PET scan then revealed that it had spread to my hip bone. So for breast cancer, if it could come back sort of as many times, a dozen times here or whatever, I mean, you hope it doesn't. But still considered fully curable, when it spreads outside of the breast region, that's when the vocabulary changes and it's metastatic. It's incurable. It's stage four now. I knock a lot of wood. I have been incredibly fortunate being on all the medicines that I'm on, and I'm also acutely aware of the fact that that could change in any moment. But you kind of go through these difficult life journeys and moments, and they really help crystallize the ability to connect in a deeper way. And so I am very open with my cancer journey, and I'm part of whether it's conversations within an entrepreneurial community that I'm a part of or meeting someone for the first time and just chitchatting when we get to know each other, my health journey comes up. And it's a choice that I make because it's connected to everything. It's to why I pivoted into well being. It's connected to. I mean, if you google me, like I've written for allure, I've written for entrepreneur, but it mentions my cancer journey. So it's not a secret. And I'm proud of how I've navigated it and I share it because I know it will invite deeper connection and it just requires that whole that I'll show you mine if you show me yours. I think where we struggle as a society is people are nervous to go first because they're not sure how this goes back to that definition of vulnerability. How will it be received? Right? I don't know. And so what I have found, I have a gift for where cancer has gifted me. The opportunity is to give someone else the permission slip to share because I am comfortable sharing my story. And when I do that, it invites that back. And so I've met countless people in this, I mentioned this entrepreneurial community I'm a part of. It's called the upside and I absolutely love it. And it's about 250 people and I've met people for the first time, virtually, and they'll tell me something and then they'll say, I've never told that to someone else in this community. And it's not that I have these magical superpowers, right? It's just that because I've shared something, it's not specifically about work, it's just like personal and professional, they're all integrated. And so it impacts me. Some weeks I have a lot of doctors appointments, other weeks I don't. Some weeks I'm wasting a lot of time dealing with our health insurance, right, or whatever it may be. And so I'm very open about my health journey because I can't just check it at the door, but it gives other people a permission slip to be open too, is what I'm curious, your.

Speaker B: Cancer journey, how it has, because I know you were in a different career, you're on different career paths, and was it the cancer diagnosis and your journey that had you pivot into the well being space? And how has it shifted how you look at life, how you see things?

Speaker C: So I was in the media industry for about 20 years and actually had the best job I had ever had at Time Warner. I was running multicultural business strategy across HBO and Warner Brothers and Turner and my boss and I, we created this incubator where we were investing in storytellers in the same way that a VC would invest in a startup company. So it felt meaningful. It was a lot of diverse, innovative new storytellers, and it was sort of the best job I ever had. Best boss I ever had. Like I said, she gave me this necklace I wear every day, and yet I turned 40. And I kind of just thought, I think I'm done. I wasn't feeling it anymore. There's this amazing Steve Jobs commencement speech he gave at Stanford in 2005. And I quote it often. I actually usually quote this part about making meaning out of our stories. But another piece of that talk, he asks. He invites people to really look in the mirror every day when you get up and ask, like, is this what I want to be doing? Am I feeling this fulfillment? And if the answer is no, too many days in a row, that's telling you something. And I think these big birthdays that are divisible by ten, right? We really should be reflecting on our lives all the time. But those birthdays are somehow those points where if we haven't reflected for a while, that's when we do. And so I had turned 40, and I basically said, you know what? I think I'm done with media, but I don't know what I am moving toward. I know what I'm moving away from, but I'm not sure. And I had really loved, well being sort of extracurricularly. I discovered dance classes in my thirty s that I adored. I read a lot of Brene Brown and other thought leaders in the well being space for pleasure, but I didn't really have a specific vision of what will I do with all of that. And then life handed me the curveball of a cancer diagnosis, and that was a difficult time. And it also gifted me medical leave from my job. And in that time off, I signed up for this deep dive course in positive psychology. And it was something I had had my eye on for a long time and just didn't feel like I had the time to dedicate to while I was working full time. So I basically took this course, and I was learning about things like meaning and purpose and post traumatic growth and growth mindset and knowing our strengths and vitality, both mental and emotional and physical. And I was just like, how did I not learn this? Because I was a psychology major and I got two masters and an MBA. Fine. You don't necessarily expect to learn that stuff, but a master's in education, maybe. And I went to Harvard and Stanford, and these were supposed to be the schools that were the best. And I just sort of started to really reflect about that and think we've gotten it wrong. What we believe is the core curriculum that everyone needs to know. The history, the math, the science. Sure, that's important, but I believe the core curriculum for life should be all of those things that I just mentioned and alluded to. And so that along with just wanting more control over my schedule, which being a part of a big company often doesn't bring, I felt like I really wanted to figure out how can I weave all of this together? The well being, the control over my calendar, and the ability to kind of just like what I've done is create a portfolio. So I have this Solopreneur corporate wellbeing business. I had the gift. I had pitched it to HR while I was at NBC Universal during the pandemic. So I actually had this gift of being able to pilot it there and really support hundreds of employees during the pandemic with classes on gratitude. I started with gratitude there because it was like, we're a couple of weeks into the pandemic, and it was like, what can you access now? So gratitude and growth, mindset and meaning and purpose and flow. And I had about a dozen different workshops and coached employees one on one. And then I went out on my own. And I love it because what I mentioned earlier about that Steve Jobs commencement speech, and we can only really meaningfully connect the dots of our lives looking backward or most meaningfully. And my roots were as a camp counselor before I ever set foot in a company, I was a sleepway camp counselor. Camp that I was a camper at, and then I was a counselor, and I was always like, only I could be a counselor at a company. And that's kind of what I get to do now, right? Camp for me was always about community and connection, and that's really what I get to bring into companies and usually through some sort of inspirational keynote at like a town hall or an all hands meeting, and then into a workshop. And it feels really meaningful to me. And then at the same time, I've also started to lean more. And this is another well being tip into advocacy, because when we can see our story, so meaning and purpose are related, but they're different, meaning is more backward looking and reflective. It's that how can I make sense of my story? How can I come to genuinely believe that I'm meant to be living with this metastatic cancer, even though I did everything right and it was screened since my early thirty s, but genuinely kind of see this as a path that I'm meant to be on. And meaning is subjective. So the meaning I make from a cancer journey will be different than another cancer patient. The meaning that two people take from a layoff might be totally different, but the gift of being able to make meaning as a well being tool for all of us is that if we were to make a bell curve of resilience, we have all heard of PTSD. That's like the tough end of the resilience bell curve, right? That's the struggle. Post traumatic growth is the other side, but almost no one has heard of it. And it is best accessed when we can grow through what we go through. And so when we make.

Speaker B: I just want you to define post traumatic growth. Are you saying after someone has experienced a trauma or during the trauma, it is what they have learned and how they have grown and what they are taking away from the experience, as opposed to struggling constantly on the trauma of the experience.

Speaker C: So I would focus on the after. Right. The post piece post traumatic growth, so very much not necessarily in the midst of it. If someone's really struggling with something, then it's harder to access, like, with gratitude. There's a little bit of that muscle element with building resilience in general. So if we can look back at our lives and see other moments, maybe with a smaller struggle, but where we feel like we have grown forward, not just gone forward, but grown forward, we can kind of say, like, yeah, I know that was a hard moment in my life, but I know I have this in me to grow through this, and then the best ways to access it are to really. It has to be authentic to you, but authentic to you is subjective. Right? So what I mean by that is that meaning making, we make meaning. It's a choice. So the way that I make meaning or you make meaning, even if we had a very similar struggle, can and likely will be different in terms of what that story is that we're telling. But when we can access a story that subjectively, authentically resonates for each of us with a struggle that we went through, we are more likely to be resilient after it. But I want to clarify, it doesn't mean that you would choose that struggle. In other words, I can tell you all the ways I've grown from this stage four cancer. Also, if someone could offer me a cure tomorrow and I never had to get another scan or take another pill or injection, like, yes, please sign me up. Right? So it's the ability to look at our story and tell our story in this moment in a way that feels meaningful doesn't mean we would have chosen it, doesn't mean that if it could magically be undone, we might not choose to have it never have happened. But given it did happen, we are moving forward in a way that we feel like we've grown in a way. We're better. We're better than before. We're stronger than before, 100%.

Speaker B: And I can really appreciate you're speaking to the strength that someone gains from the struggle and what they're learning from the struggle and how, whether they would have wanted that moment. Of course, no one wants to have these moments in their life, these great struggles in their life, but to be able to sit and find something positive out of it, to be able to say, this is what I've learned, and this is how I've grown. And to be able to say that to yourself is like a massive accomplishment, right? Like, I am going to take these bits and pieces and I'm better for it and to be proud of it, because when the lows are low, you can't see the other side, right? You can't imagine getting stronger from this. You're just mad. It's hard. It's scary. So to come out on that side, you're a survivor, you're a fighter, and you applaud yourself by finding those meanings and growths.

Speaker C: And then you start to do it a little earlier in the challenge, the next time, kind of, like, recognize this. And so I want to connect it into that purpose. What I was starting to say, purpose is more forward looking. So purpose is that connection of, here's what I'm doing. Here's how I'm connecting it to service in some way that is beyond myself. So whether it is one person, someone's purpose can be deep in caregiving for one other person, right? They have one person they work for, or it could be dozens or it could be hundreds or million, right? If you're Oprah, it's probably, like several hundred million, whatever it is. But that purpose piece about what we are doing, going beyond ourself. So I've leaned into a lot of advocacy that I never would have found if not for this health journey. And that takes me anywhere from the MTA, because traveling around right now, being immunocompromised is so much more complicated than it needs to be. And so if each train just had one masked car, right, rather than, like, I can mask, but someone next to me might be unmasked. Coughing so one car. So I go there monthly. I've not yet been successful, but I'm determined. It's such an easy thing to do. And just last year. Another quick health example. I ended up needing surgery. So I knocked wood earlier, right? I said, I'm doing well on all my medicines. And I am, but medicines have side effects. And one of mine, which was highly unexpected, was that a medicine meant to strengthen my bones, actually ended up damaging my femur, almost like the reverse of what it was supposed to do. Wow. And so I needed surgery to prophylactically get a titanium rod and several screws in my femur, because I was told that if I didn't do that, my femur was highly vulnerable to breaking in two at any moment. Like stepping off a curb.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker C: Right? I had a PET scan, which we do to make sure there's no cancer. And then I got the good results. But I could tell that the nurse was like, there was a butt, right? You could tell. And that was not what I expected the butt to be, because I had never heard of this. And so, at any rate. So I'm sitting first in cancer land at MSK with a surgeon. But then I went to another hospital. I went to HSS, and I learned know often these doctors do the best they can, but they're very narrowly focused in their lane. And so what it turns out is the problem is that oncologists are using this medicine at much higher levels, because that was what a clinical test was or trial was, but much higher levels than they're using the same medicine for osteoporosis. So, at HSS, they were not at all surprised that I was in this situation, because I had been on the medicine at much higher doses for many more years than they ever let someone be on it. So this is a lot of detail, but the reason I'm sharing it is immediately I kicked into that, okay, this must be in my path for a reason, right? There's that meaning making. Because I am young and healthy, and, yeah, I'm not excited about needing a titanium rod, but I can deal with crutches. I can get around. I can handle physical therapy. I'll be okay. Right? Better me than someone older or less physically able. And here's the purpose piece. The purpose piece is. Okay. Now, HSS Doctor, I need you to coordinate with the oncology community, because shouldn't be happening to anyone. And I need to speak up about this more to make sure it's not happening to anyone, because that's the privilege that I see, and it comes from all these different places, right? Like, being so well educated and articulate and having the cognitive capacity, even while in this complicated medical journey, to be able to connect these dots and say, no, this didn't need to happen and this shouldn't happen. And here's how I can help it not happen to someone else. And so when we can lean into meaning and purpose, they really can help us navigate these unexpected, difficult twists and turns just with a better sense of self efficacy, with a better sense of connection to the world. And I think that's really what deeper well being is, right? It's less about that positivity, like the smiley face positivity, and about that deeper connection.

Speaker B: I think it's so profound and we couldn't agree with you more. And it's so incredibly accessible, which is part of the reason why we do this. It's a matter of sitting down and thinking through things. This is something that anyone can do anywhere at any time. And we could talk to you for hours and hours and hours about it, but we're not going to keep you any longer. We thank you so much for all of your time. But before we let you go, let's get into some silly, fun wellness stuff that we just like to call a wrap session. But these are some fun little questions for you. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Speaker C: So for me, my favorite wellness hack is a dance party. Meaning a party. It could just be me, with me. But before anything, before we recorded today, before I give a keynote, before, especially if I have any sort of nerves, like if I'm going to be in front of a large group leading a workshop, I put on a song I know I love and I let myself dance my heart out. I love that sometimes I actually will put on Zoom, just like a meeting with my friend so that I'm actually don't feel totally alone. Sometimes I'll do it alone. It could be like if I'm in public, like in a bathroom stall or an elevator or whatever it may be, or if I really have no privacy. Just like almost like listening to a song and moving my hips. But when we are embodied and we really kind of feel aligned in all the ways, it's almost like you feel your own glow. You feel unstoppable. Sia unstoppable is a song I love to use because of what it says. And so that is my favorite go to because. And shift your mood in a matter of seconds.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

Speaker A: It's a great one.

Speaker B: All right, this next one, we call it your five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber has pinged you. They are right around the corner. What are you going to do? What are your holy grails? To get out the door on time.

Speaker C: My God, I'm so quick in general, because my only daily thing is a keel's moisturizer, like SPF. Cover the bases with the sun. Pretty cloudy today, and that's like I stopped using. It's just kind of like one of these pandemic resets. Stopped using a lot of the product that I'd used in my hair, like shampoo, conditioner, and then it's like towel dry. I mean, blow it if I have more time, but otherwise it's okay. Whatever it is, put it up in a clip, and maybe I put on a little bit of on top of the untinted moisturizer, like a little bit of a tinted moisturizer or some powder. But I don't know unless I'm doing something where I really feel like I need makeup, I'm pretty easy and outdoor.

Speaker A: And then how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Speaker C: So I think a lot about energy. Like for whatever it is, this podcast, invitation, a potential client, seeing a friend, whatever it is, dealing with emails, does something energize me? Sorry. Everything impacts our energy. Does it elevate my energy and a little or a lot, or does it deplete me a little or a lot? And I really try to choose things, meaning experiences, people, places that elevate me and minimize the other, and it impacts everything. I'm a solopreneur, but I will only take clients where I feel like they genuinely get it. They care about well being, and time with them will elevate me because that's such a precious thing. Right?

Speaker B: It kind of reminds me of spoon theory. Are you familiar with spoon theory?

Speaker C: Tell me a little bit.

Speaker B: Was developed by a community of people with chronic illness, and it's spoon theory. The spoons are the energy. And so how many spoons is this event going to take? But I like your take on it. It's the opposite. You'll gain spoons from certain people that you're with or in your way, energy going up and down from the events of your day, from who you see and everything. Well, hopefully this is raising your energy today and we're not taking it from you because you raised ours.

Speaker C: Absolutely. I had a good time.

Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you so much. It was so, just so enlightening to hear about your journey and about your point of view on all of this, because I think it's just a really good reminder and reset for us, for audience that this stuff is really what's important at the end of the day, and it's accessible.

Speaker C: And I think that's the it always frustrates me that we don't learn this in school more.

Speaker A: No, this is what kids should be learning. We talk about that all the time, like this kind of stuff, and it's accessible.

Speaker C: And I post a lot of well being content on LinkedIn. So great kind of conversation that you enjoyed. We can connect there because it is accessible. So for sure, LinkedIn is where I probably am the most active from a social media perspective. I also am on Instagram, Sally shoots, and then my website is my name.

Speaker B: All right, well, thanks, Sally. Thanks for being with us today.

Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 133 - Just In Time For The Holiday Party Season: Zero Hangovers With ZBiotics CEO & Co-Founder, Dr. Zack Abbott (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 133 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Speaker A: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker B: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome to the show nirvana Sisters family. Today we are sitting down with Dr. Zach Abbott. Zach is the CEO and co founder of ZBiotics. Zach has a PhD in Microbiology and Immunology from the University of Michigan and holds a bachelor's degree from UC Berkeley, where he double majored in Immunology and Classical art and Archaeology. During his PhD, the focus of Zach's thesis was on bacterial gene regulation. That sounds super interesting. And he became an expert at understanding how bacteria turn on and off different functions in response to their environment. After his PhD, zach then had the idea to apply his expertise to the world of safe edible probiotic bacteria. He wanted to engineer these probiotic bacteria, which to date had only been leveraged for the generalized and inconsistent benefits to do a very specific and usual function directly inside the human body. Combining the tools of genetic engineering with the safe microbes already around us, his goal was to create something new, a microbe trained to do something that provided a unique, specific, intangible benefit for people. Zach dove into the research project that would eventually become ZBiotics. He holed up his lab in Berkeley, California, often sleeping next to his lab bench. I'm sure there were some long nights and after twelve months emerged with the prototype of the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. So that's all super interesting and really exciting and I can't wait to tell our listeners about it because I am a very big fan of ZBiotics and have been using it for quite some time. So welcome to the show.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, thanks so much for having me. I feel like maybe I could have done a better job writing that bio, but glad I'm excited to get into it with you.

Speaker B: No, the bio is great. I mean, we need to know the nitty gritty for sure, especially with something that is as interesting as this. So for the listener, ZBiotics is a pre alcohol probiotic. And the best way that I can describe it is you take it essentially with your first alcoholic beverage and it cures you of your hangover. You wake up the next day feeling, I think, pretty great. I've always felt really good on it and I think I've used it, I want to say like four or five times over the last couple of years. When did the product start? When did you first launch?

Speaker C: Yeah, we launched it in August of 2019, so it's been around for about a little over four years.

Speaker B: Very cool. All right, so break it down for us. Tell our listeners, what is Zbiotic's? Pre alcohol probiotic.

Speaker C: Totally. Yeah. So first and foremost, I'll say that you mentioned the word hangover. And I think that that term we found is a very loaded term for people and they associate it with a lot of things that maybe we don't really mean or that we're going to get into. And so, really talk about kind of the idea that this product, the purpose of the product is to kind of be like another tool in your toolbox, along with other responsible drinking habits to help you kind of land on your feet and get more done the next day. Maintain those healthy habits and routines. And so some people associate a hangover with kind of like binge drinking and kind of like misery or throwing up on the toilet, things like that that are not really I think that's above and beyond for some people. And so this product is more around kind of definitely making you feel better the day after drinking and some people kind of refer to that as a hangover but not everybody kind of thinks the same way. So anyway, happy to describe. Yeah, so exactly as you said the product, it's a pre alcohol probiotic. So you take that product before you drink and then when you drink alcohol is sort of broken down into this toxic byproduct called acid aldehyde in your body. And so this acid aldehyde is kind of responsible for some of the things that you might feel the next day. Some of the important things that kind of interrupt how much you're likely to get on kind of with your day. And so our product is a bacteria probiotic bacteria that can basically break down that acid aldehyde as it forms while you're drinking so that you can feel better the next day. And so that's the general idea.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's fair to say the way that maybe I first positioned it, it might sound like one is using this for a really big night. And sure, of course, but it's also kind of like the wellness person's way of processing this essentially toxic thing that we're putting into our bodies and helping us break it down better so that we feel much better the next day, whether it's a couple of drinks or a big night out. I mean, I definitely used it for a big night out. It was a friend's birthday party this past summer and it saved me. But on the flip side, I was just in the Dominican Republic with some best friends this past weekend and she had Z biotics with just a couple. It's a girl's weekend, we're not getting into anything crazy and we use the ZBiotics and it was great. So I would say then my next question, people, I think mostly assume that we feel bad the next day from drinking alcohol because of dehydration. What do you have to say to that?

Speaker C: Yeah. So first, I'll say that to your first point, it's exactly right that the drinking events that happen, whether they're big or small, are, like, for a lot of people, it's an important part of your socializing kind of, like, different experience you have with traveling or going out with your friends or a party or whatever it might be. But the value we see for our customers is really in kind of like being able to maintain the healthy habits and routines the next day. And so when these drinking events occur, you can have ZBiotics as a way to ensure that the next day, the second day of your trip, just as good as the first, right? Or that you make your morning workout or that morning hike, you meet with your friends, whatever that might be. So that is really kind of like the focus. It is definitely around wellness and kind of like living a full life. To your question around dehydration, it's a good one. I think that there's this sort of like pervasive myth around alcohol and dehydration and this belief that alcohol causes dehydration, even though we know in the scientific literature that alcohol doesn't really cause significant dehydration. And I think that this myth is sort of based on the idea that we observe that we tend to pee a lot when we drink alcohol. And it's known that alcohol inhibits a hormone called the antideuretic hormone, which regulates how much you pee. So this belief, though, that that must be the root cause of why you feel bad, but we actually know that's not true. And we have known that for a long time scientifically. I think everybody probably also knows this. If you do the thought experiment, right, other things that cause dehydration don't feel anything, like true, like the way you feel the day after drinking, right? If you exercise or you eat salty foods or you're out in the sun, you do not feel like you feel after you've been drinking, right? Those are very different feelings. They're very different things. And also the cure for dehydration is to drink water. And we all know that when we've had a rough morning after drinking, that having a couple of glasses of water really does nothing to kind of help you feel better. Right? It just takes time. And so these are very different processes, we know that, I think, intuitively, but we'd like to have something and so we sort of are like oh, and so these brands are selling us on electrolytes and rehydration AIDS as a way to kind of leverage this sort of belief that dehydration must be a problem. But we know that's actually not true. And so the question really becomes like, well, what is true? And I think what I think has really been interesting to me as a scientist in digging into this question of what's happening when you drink, is that as with anything, it's actually really complicated. There's a whole bunch of stuff happening, sort of like a symphony of stuff. But if I were to sort of simplify it down, it's kind of a story of two molecules. So you have alcohol itself, so the ethanol, and then you have this metabolic byproduct of alcohol called acid aldehyde. And those two things are both toxic molecules that aren't great for you, and they cause disturbances in your body in various ways. And so the alcohol, basically, it affects the quality of your sleep, it irritates your gut. It sort of has this effect on many different hormones in your body and the way you regulate kind of hunger and satiation. So those midnight cravings after drinking are really due to the alcohol. And then simultaneously, it sort of affects the way your blood sugar and insulin balance are affected the next day as well. And so all those things have sort of some of the negative consequences you might experience. But then I'd say probably even more important in terms of the way you feel the next day is acid aldehydes, this very toxic molecule. It sort of wreaks havoc throughout the body. It's able to kind of cause cell death, which causes systemic inflammation. It's able to bind to receptors in your brain and create sort of like those feelings of nausea and sort of like that toxic death feeling you might get or that malaise that kind of prevents you from your day. And acid aldehyde is an important part of why you feel that way. And so those are like the two main things you're dealing with. There's a few other really interesting things that are happening as well. I'm oversimplifying, but generally speaking, those are the big buckets. And so the idea behind Zibiotics is that we could help with the acid aldehyde at least, right? Like the alcohol is why people are drinking in the first place. And so whatever that might be that you're experiencing from that. So we thought that at least we could get some of these really nasty, kind of some of that misery that you're dealing with the next day if we tackle the acid problem. So that's what we set up.

Speaker B: So ZBiotics essentially breaks down the I'm going to say it wrong, you know what I'm saying? Acidillahaldehyde.

Speaker C: Yeah, acid aldehyde.

Speaker B: Say it again.

Speaker C: Yeah, acid.

Speaker B: Acid aldehyde. Okay. That's not as challenging as I thought.

Speaker C: It was going to be.

Speaker B: Acid aldehyde.

Speaker C: Yeah, it looks more it really does.

Speaker B: So that is what the Z biotics does, and it is essentially a probiotic. Does this work in your gut then?

Speaker C: Yes, exactly. So we started with a live probiotic bacteria. So, like, this bacteria is a safe, edible bacteria that you can eat, and you do already eat this bacteria every day of your life. The species Bacillus subtleus is what's called B subtilis. It's a common bacteria used in the fermentation of food like NATO or Kombucha or chocolate. B subtleus is often kind of involved in that fermentation process. And it's also just kind of like all over your kitchen counter. It's kind of everywhere and you eat it all the time. And so then we took that bacteria and then we engineered it to kind of perform one extra function in addition to all the other things that it's already doing. And so this extra function was the ability to break down acid aldehyde. And so your liver is very good at breaking down acid aldehyde, but unfortunately, by the time it makes its way to the liver, it's already kind of wreak havoc throughout your body, because that acid aldehyde is actually being formed in large part in the gut. And so basically, to kind of step back a little bit, when you drink, most of the alcohol you drink is absorbed into the bloodstream. The alcohol circulates out the body. It has the effects that it has, and then it makes its way to the liver, and it's broken down in two stages. So the alcohol is converted into acid aldehyde, and then the acid aldehyde is converted into acetate. And acetate is essentially vinegar. It's innocuous at this point, the molecule has been detoxified. And so those two steps happen with two different enzymes, and the liver is very good at both steps. So basically, once the alcohol makes its way to the liver, it's almost all being converted entirely to acetate. A small amount of alcohol is actually being broken down directly in the gut before it gets absorbed into the bloodstream. And so it's like, not really a relevant amount in terms of intoxication or the effects of alcohol itself, but even though it's a small amount, this alcohol is almost all being converted to acid aldehyde, that first step of the reaction, but not the second step. So the microbes in your gut are basically breaking down a little bit of alcohol into acid aldehyde, but not subsequently to acetate. And so what happens is that even though it's a small amount of alcohol, basically it's producing acid aldehyde, and that osalide starts to build up in the gut. The gut ends up being the major source of acid aldehyde in the body, even though it's a minor source of alcohol breakdown. And so we know that the scientific literature is very clear that colonic levels of acid aldehydes we look in the gut, and the levels of acid in the gut, they're five to ten times higher than they are in the bloodstream, even though, like I say, this is a very minor source of alcohol metabolism. And so this is actually the major source of acid aldehyde. And then, of course, that acid is highly soluble. It diffuses out of the gut into the bloodstream, circulates throughout the body, kind of wreaks havoc, and then it makes its way to the liver and it's broken down really efficiently. But at that point, it's kind of too late. So we thought, let's move that function of the liver, that one single enzyme that converts acidol die into acetate, and let's just put it in the gut. And so we basically engineered this safe, edible probiotic bacteria to express this very safe common enzyme in the location where it matters right, for the way you feel the next day. And so it's really just kind of like transferring that tray of the liver into the gut, break down that side in the gut before kind of gets absorbed in the bloodstream.

Speaker B: It's so interesting. And then does it essentially, basically just compound the more drinking that you do, the more glasses of, let's say, wine that you have just naturally, the more acid aldehyde that is in your system. And so that's the obvious reason why for most, if you have one or two drinks versus four or five, it can make a difference in how you feel the next day. And I'm also curious, a lot of people, our livers, they go under a lot of stress, right? I mean, especially if you take a lot of supplements, if you have to take prescription medication, if someone's liver is less healthy than someone else's, is that also another factor of how they're breaking it all down?

Speaker C: Absolutely. It's a good point that drinking itself is like putting stress on your liver, like all that alcohol that it has to break down. And I love that you said like supplements. There's a lot of things that we take that really have to be processed by our liver and our kidneys. And the more we kind of put wear on those tires, the more they wear down. And so that's a really great point. And as we get older, I think we all notice that we start to get impact, like less drinks impact us more. And that's in part because the function of our organs, like our liver and kidneys are not as spry as they used to be in our twenty s. And so that's absolutely, that's absolutely true. And the worse kind of your liver, the less effective your liver is, the slower you'll be able to break this stuff down and the longer you're exposed to it, which means the more damage and then that you feel the next day.

Speaker B: Yeah. There's a reason why when you're like 24 you can party all night and when you're 44 can't.

Speaker C: Exactly. Right. Two or three drinks feels like a dumb track hitting you, whereas when you were 20 you wouldn't even notice.

Speaker B: All right, well, let's talk a little bit about then how one would use ZBiotics and how they're going to feel on it and does it affect their level of intoxication? Maybe we can start there. If you have it with your first drink, is it going to have any effect on your evening in that regard?

Speaker C: It shouldn't. Right? Because the whole point is that your body is still in charge of breaking down the alcohol the same way it always did. And then Zebotus really steps in on that second step after the alcohol has been converted into acid aldehyde. And so the acid aldehyde doesn't have any effect on the intoxication itself. And so all the same rules, with or without Zebotics still apply for responsible drinking. Making sure that you know your limits, you pace yourself, you drink in moderation, you make sure you're drinking plenty of water, not drinking on empty stomach. All those things are still really important. And then the idea is that if you do all those things, you're still going to be exposed to some amount of acid aldehyde. And so Zebiotics is there to kind of help with that piece of the puzzle. So we've kind of like invented something to deal with, something with a part of the problem that currently nothing existed to kind of deal with, even though you had these other kind of best practices. So yeah, you should feel the same in terms of the impact of the alcohol. But then of course, the next day you'll ideally feel better.

Speaker B: But now, should one expect us to be like a superhuman feeling better? Like the next day, am I going to wake up and want to go run a marathon or am I just going to not feel like I'm dying?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, to some extent, I hate to give sort of a science answer here, but it depends on the person and their biology as to how you feel the next day. What we can definitely say is that you will feel better. And for some people, indeed, we literally have testimonials where people go. I've had people send me screenshots of the Strava where they've run like 7 miles the next morning after going out in Nashville with their friends or whatever. And so it kind of depends on who you are and how alcohol affects you because it's going to be kind of different for everybody. That being said, you'll definitely feel better. The whole point of the product is to essentially reduce the friction on you getting on with the important, natural, healthy parts of your day, like exercising or meeting up with friends or whatever it might be. That is the benefit of the product. And you should feel that way. That being said, are you going to wake up and definitively feel nothing? Probably unrealistic. As I say, the next day effects of drinking are very complicated. There's a lot of facets going around that your body's dealing with our product helps you with a really important part of that. And so the other things that you're dealing with related to alcohol itself, like for instance, I think one of the important ones is poor sleep. So you may wake up the next day and feel groggy even if you don't kind of feel all the rest of that misery, which could impact kind of like how motivated you are to get things done. And so good news is, like a good breakfast, some coffee can really address some of that. But I also myself personally when I'm drinking, in addition to taking z biotics. As I say, I try and maintain all the other healthy habits I have, and one of the most important ones is making sure I get plenty of sleep and trying to go to bed sober. So stopping drinking earlier in the night so that my body has time to process that alcohol so that when I go to bed, there isn't alcohol in my brain affecting because the alcohol binding receptors in the brain are just kind of part of what affects the quality of your sleep. So trying to mitigate that symptom using other kind of behaviors and practices is really yeah.

Speaker B: As somebody that has used the product multiple times, it is interesting. I have had different experiences the next day. The underlying current is that I always feel certainly better than I would have had I not taken it. And there's been a couple of times where I remember like one or two days I was groggy. But you're right, I didn't sleep very well. And I can go to bed with having nothing to drink, having had the best wellness day exercised and still have a bad night's sleep. It is interesting how it is unique to someone's biology and it can affect one different ways. I mean, a friend, we have a mutual friend, and he is like the Bionic Man and he takes very good care of himself and he uses Ebiotics, and I think he probably is one of those guys that's getting up and running a marathon the next day.

Speaker C: Yeah, totally.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Yeah. There's no doubt about it that alcohol definitely affects the quality of your sleep. It's definitely not going to help. And so I think an important part is just being aware of all the things that are kind of like, happening. And I think that taking steps to mitigate each of those together in a holistic sense. And to your point, everybody's biology is different. And our goal here is to work with your biology and that includes kind of your own decision making as opposed to sort of like kind of giving you gal gel free card that mitigates everything because that's just not right.

Speaker B: Of course. Okay, well, I want our guests to know where they can find Zibiotics. But before you say that, I just want you to know you guys are everywhere because last night, one of Amy's friends unfortunately, Amy's not here with us today. She couldn't be with us today, but just randomly texted her a photo of her holding her Zbiotic saying, have you heard of this? Literally. Yeah. I could show it to you. I'll show you the photo and the timestamp of the date. It's wild. So you are everywhere. So tell us, where can our listeners find you?

Speaker C: That is so cool. I'm glad to hear that. Best place to find us is just on our website, zbiotics.com. And yeah, we have a lot of information there about the product, but also a lot of things we're talking about here, like best practices around drinking without the product and how alcohol affects your body, and a lot of stuff about the microbiome. We don't have time to get into it now, but my PhD in microbiology, I'm really passionate about disseminating information about just kind of understanding your gut environment and the microbes that live there. And I think there's a lot of really cool, kind of honest things that we can talk about in that space as well. So we try and address some of that.

Speaker B: Yeah, your website is genius. It has a lot of great information and for those that like to dig into the science of it all. And you know what? We should have you back to talk about the microbiome because it is fascinating. So I know that you would love to have a conversation with you as well. All right, so before I let you go, let's get into our wrap session because I'm super curious what your answers are going to be to this. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Speaker C: Okay, so my favorite wellness hack is as you can tell, I don't probably have a ton of beauty hacks, but my favorite wellness hack is frozen cauliflower in my smoothie. So there was this really cool, basically, study that came out in 2021. It was this huge metaanalysis of 2 million people over the course of 30 years, and they followed their health and their diet and all these things. They analyzed basically, in this case, specifically, what's the optimal amount of fruit and veg that you should be eating every day. And it was that at least two servings of fruit and three servings of vegetables a day was like the optimal amount. Anything above that didn't hurt, but it sort of didn't provide an increased benefit. And so, okay, that feels like doable generally, right? Especially two fruit. I think I can do that. But three veg really takes a concerted effort, right. That means you're having a serving of vegetables with every meal and kind of hard to work vegetable into an easy I'm eating a bowl of cereal a lot of times. So what I do now is basically, if I add, like, three quarters of a cup of frozen cauliflower to my smoothie in the morning, you blend it up, and basically, it's a very neutral flavor, and it adds, like, a nice texture. Gives, like, a sort of a creamy, smoothie texture to it, but you don't really taste it. And so it's sort of like this free veg that you get right off the bat out of the gate for the day. I've already gotten one serving of vegetables.

Speaker B: That's a good one. It's hidden in there. That would also be a really good way to get vegetables into my children, I feel like.

Speaker C: Yes, kids also don't detect.

Speaker B: Nice. That's a great one. Okay, so this next one is like, maybe a little bit more for the ladies that we have interviewing on the show, but I'm still curious. It's your five minute flow. You just got in the shower and you're drying off and uber's pinged you. They're five minutes away. What are you doing to get out the door on time? I have a feeling this is probably like, for most men, always the same, but what do you got?

Speaker C: Yeah, five minutes is ample. Basically, speed stick deodorant. That's my scent. And then a little bit of the matte hair cream to kind of keep the hair out of my face, and I'm pretty much good to go.

Speaker B: I tell you what I know.

Speaker C: It's not fair. It's not fair. I agree.

Speaker B: All right. And the last one is, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Speaker C: I think the most important thing that I do every day for myself is I always make sure to end my day getting to read a book or listen to a book, one of the two. And even if it's like, I'm really tired, it's only, like, a few pages, I find that that's a really important way for me to kind of unwind, be quiet and kind of, like, allow my imagination to go a little bit. I spend a lot of time talking to people in a lot of meetings and things like that. And to be clear, these are books are fun books, not like self improvement or anything like that. These are like fantasy or comedy or mystery. Like things that just allow me to kind of decompress a little bit. So I think it's an important part.

Speaker B: All right, well, Zach, thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it's. Great to connect. We've been trying to connect for a long time, and we are, like, avid fans of ZBiotics, and I know a lot of people are, so I'm sure our listeners are going to be super psyched to learn about it today. So thank you.

Speaker C: Well, thank you for having me. This is super fun.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to.

Speaker B: Bye.

Episode 131 - Hair Health Secrets With Trichologist And TikTok Superstar, Taylor Rose (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 131.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Speaker A: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker B: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

Speaker A: Welcome back to Nirvana Sisters, Nirvana Sisters family. You have just Amy today. Katie is on a much needed girlfriend's vacation, so she is not joining us today. But we are here, or I am here with Taylor Rose, who know I'm going to go back in time. So Taylor was one of our first guests on the show. So I was looking back and you were on our show, July 2021. It was episode 19 for us. And now we're on like, I don't know, episode 131 35, something like that, which is crazy. You were living in Michigan. You weren't a certified trichologist. You had a big TikTok following, but certainly not as big as it is now. So we're so excited to just hear all the new things. But let me just give our audience who we have so many new people who don't know Taylor. Taylor Rose is a certified trichologist specializing in rebuilding her clients confidence through both preventative and restorative hair loss solutions. Taylor has been published in a variety of news outlets, the Today Show, NBC Select, New York Post, the US Sun, Women's World Shape, and more, and has gained exposure through her social media platforms where she provides holistic hair regrowth tips to an audience of over 1.5 million followers. So welcome back to the show, Taylor. We were just talking that the first time she was on, it was like probably her first podcast. We were early on, and so much has happened. So it's so good to see you, and it's amazing to see how your career has evolved so much since we first met. I think formerly you were the healthy hooga, now you're the healthy her, I think, and all the things. So give us a little update on your life.

Speaker B: Yeah, so very different from the last time we talked, obviously, even just my mood. I was so nervous. That was my first podcast ever. Now, I have been on many podcasts, and it's so awesome. It's such a full circle to be back on this podcast. Yeah. But since then, I've moved to California, so I think so much has happened since that one. I was in a house in Grand Rapids, and then I ended up moving to Kalamazoo and then moved all the way out to California. So very different vibes out here. But it's definitely, I feel like where I'm meant to be. You know what I mean?

Speaker A: Totally. And I also remember last time we spoke, you were like in the midst of switching jobs. Like you weren't even doing this full time. I feel like you were working at another company.

Speaker B: Yes, I was still in finance. I believe I was posting kind of my own hair regrowth tips, but I didn't necessarily have that knowledge that I do now. That's helping other people with different types of hair, different hair loss problems. Before, it was just my own experience, and it very much was like, if you have the exact type of hair loss I have, the exact type of hair I have, I can help you. Otherwise, I don't know. So it's very different content even now than I used to put out.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, much different. Tell us. So you are now a certified trichologist. So for those who don't know what that means, can you tell us a little bit about what that means?

Speaker B: Yeah. So certified trichologists basically are scalp and hair experts. I specialize in both preventative and restorative hair loss. So I can help people who may have great hair or okay hair, keep it and just make it better, make it its best looking hair that you can have and prevent that hair loss. And then also restorative if you've lost hair. I can help you regrow your hair in most cases, yeah.

Speaker A: And you went to school over the last few years to become officially certified and now this is like all you're doing?

Speaker B: Yes, this is my full time gig now, and I'm loving it so much. Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, for our audience, please make sure you check her out on social media. Taylor has amazing, amazing content and such good tips and we love it all. Well, firstly, let's take a step back because I forgot to do. Because I just jumped into it. I forgot to do our Nirvana of the week, which, if you remember this from last time, just like a quick tidbit, fun or interesting or something that brought a little smile to your face. This week I haven't even thought of mine at, because I feel like this week has been so busy and I'm like, wait, I need you to take a step back and think about what made me happy this week. So I'm going to throw it to you first. This is when I usually throw it to Katie, but she's not here, so I'm just going to throw it to.

Speaker B: You under the bus, I would say. So I just got back from vacation. I went out to Utah, which I do the same trip every year to Utah, because my best friends live out there. So that was such a healing, restorative break that I needed, because working for yourself, it's very hard to shut off. And that was, like, the first vacation I've taken with no laptop. I didn't bring anything. I was like, I am out of office for three full days. I got pet sitters. It was very needed. And this week, I would say I'm feeling more motivated and more creative than I have in a long time. So that's my Nirvana, is just having a really good week back. Yeah.

Speaker A: I love that it's so needed, and that's amazing. I love Utah. Okay. That reminded me. Yes. I just got back from a trip, too. I went with my older son to a really fun game, like a college game at a state with one of my best friends who went to that school. And so it was just super fun going to, like, a ra big college game, which I haven't done in so long, college football. And we did a little touring around because my son is 16 and starting to think about college and all that stuff. So it was nice to have one on one time with him and just kind of not be working and just be with him. So that was really fun. Okay, awesome. So let's get into it. I know this is, like, a very broad, generic question, but tell us the best or the easiest way to grow hair, because it does seem like this is such a hot topic and so many people are struggling. AnD I don't know if it's post COVID or what's going on, but give us your thoughts.

Speaker B: Yeah. So this is, like, the hardest question for me to answer because, number one, there's no easy way to regrow hair, right. In this day and age, people are losing hair. It's rarely from one reason. There's usually, like, a couple of different things coming at us. So that means there's going to be a couple of different treatments. And it also depends on why you're losing hair. Right. Like, what are these underlying causes that are causing you to lose hair? And treating that hair loss is fixing those underlying causes, usually. So it's not just like, yeah, rosemary oil, for example, is amazing, and it helps increase blood circulation, and it can help 99% of people's hair just look better. And it did, for me, fully regrow your bald spots. But that also comes with ten different other things that you have to be doing, too. So I would say figuring out your underlying causes is the best first step to regrowing hair, because those are what you need to focus on, not just your scalp and your hair.

Speaker A: Why do you think this is so prevalent? Do you think it's more prevalent now? Because I think a lot of people said they lost hair during COVID if they got COVID. Or do you think it's just, like, more mainstream? Because people, especially women, didn't really talk about that stuff as much as men did, because that's more popular for men, but now it's very prevalent, and I feel like there's a lot of conversations about it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's a mix of the two. It is being talked about more, especially with TikTok. I think that was kind of like the floodgates opened. People were being very authentic and sharing their real stories on TikTok, and that kind of opened that door for a lot of people. But I also think I know that there's more hair loss than there has been ever in the history of ever right now.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's wild.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think some of the big reasons for that is the food we eat, like, how processed everything is, how stressed we are. We're not getting sleep. We're in this high stress state all day with just the way things are today. And then COVID, of course, like, a huge thing that went get. You can lose hair just from getting sick, just from getting a cold. But COVID was a cold on steroids.

Speaker A: Absolutely. But I know on your social media, at least, you used to do this, and I think you still talk. You were just talking about rosemary. What are some of those methods? Because I've seen some of them and I've tried some of them, and I think if you're consistent, they work. So can you give us a little tutorial on that?

Speaker B: Yeah. So there's a couple of different ways you can use rosemary. You can make a rosemary water, which is something that it's probably the most cumbersome to make because you have to do the whole process of boiling it and distilling it, all that. But the pro of that is that you can spray it on your scalp twice a day, and you don't need to rinse it out because it is so lightweight, whereas rosemary oil, you need to wash it off after. So there's two ways you can use rosemary oil that I like to promote. One of them is you can take just five drops of your essential oil mixed with your palm full of shampoo. Shampoo your hair like normal, let it sit for three to five minutes, and then rinse it out. And that's a nice little boost for your hair. You can do this up to three times a week, I would say. And then the other way, which I think you can do these both together too. You can do all three of them together. But the way that I like the most is having a rosemary oil. Either there are some, like, Miele that are premixed, but if you don't have it premixed, if you just have, like, 100% pure rosemary oil, you need to do five drops of that mixed with a teaspoon of a carrier oil, which would be like, castor oil, argan oil, pumpkin seed oil. Mix that together in your hands and massage it into your scalp, and then you let it sit for 30 minutes minimum, 3 hours maximum, and then rinse off.

Speaker A: Are most people or most of the clients that you're working with, Are they doing more of these home methods, or are they doing that in combination with, like, a neutrophil or other supplements?

Speaker B: Yeah, I would say most people I work with are doing multiple different things just because they have multiple reasons for their hair loss, and they also want to kind of throw everything that they can at it to fix the problem as soon as possible.

Speaker A: Yeah. I know that you've been through a journey with your hair that we followed on social media. Will you tell everyone, kind of, like, where you started and where you are now in your own hair journey?

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. So I started losing my hair in my temple region. I would say that started at the end of high school.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And it started very slowly, so I didn't necessarily notice that I was like, oh, maybe it's like how I'm parting my hair every day, or maybe it's breakage from hot tools. And I think what it actually. Sure, it was a mix of things, but what it actually came down to was that was when I got on birth control. Big change in the body known to cause hair loss. So that is kind of what triggered it to start. And then all through college, I'm stressed, I'm not sleeping. I'm drinking a lot of alcohol. All these things that are horrible for the body was just making it worse and worse and worse. And by the time college was out, I was wearing hats almost every day, spending an hour every morning making sure this was swooped right over. And it was taking up so much of my life that I'm like, okay, it's time to do something to fix this. Then TikTok comes about, and this is kind of, like, in the heart of, okay, it's COVID, I'm at home. I'm not having to spend this hour every day doing my hair for work. So I'm like, okay, it's time to, like, everyone does throw everything I can at this and try to fix it so that when COVID's over, I can come back to work looking know, like, it never mean. Rosemary was huge for me. That was kind of the first thing that I really noticed hair regrowth. But there was also all these other things I was doing. I got off birth control. I was meditating every day. I was doing yoga. I was sleeping more because COVID. Yeah. Just all these other things. Yeah, that's kind of how I grew my page was sharing my hair regrowth journey on my TikTok. Yeah.

Speaker A: And your before and afters are amazing. I remember seeing them. I mean, it's really incredible. And it does seem like it's a mix of lifestyle and anything else that you're taking. What's your thoughts on? Well, two questions I want to ask you about supplements, and I want to ask you about. You were talking before about just like, protecting your hair from hot tools because we all like our hot tools. But do you have any recommendations on how to protect your hair better from that kind of stuff other than not doing it?

Speaker B: Yeah. Honestly, obviously the best thing you can do is not use it. Even if it's just like, I take a three month break from hot tools every summer. During the summer, my hair, I'm like, okay, it's going up or it's going to be wavy. It's going to be. Yeah, that's my three month break. And I notice this is when my hair grows a ton. Just having that three months, whether that's over winter or over summer, or if you can even just spread it out throughout the year, is really helpful. Aside from that, using a heat protectant every time that you're using hot tools on your hair, letting your hair air dry 80% of the way before blow drying it. Because if you're blow drying, soaking wet hair, that's like the most damage you can cause, right?

Speaker A: Oh, that's a good one. I didn't think of that.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'll do my makeup while my hair is drying. I'll feed the animals, do other things, and then I'll go in and just do that. Like finishing dry with the blow dryer.

Speaker A: Yeah. Do you have a good hair protectant that you recommend?

Speaker B: I really like the color fanatic by purology. Yeah, that one tried that. It's my go to. I love it.

Speaker A: Okay. Good to know. Okay. And then from a supplements and things like that standpoint, I just feel like there's so much on the market. I hear so much about neutrophil. I actually have taken it in the past and it has worked for me. I never actually had any hair thinning, shedding, nothing because my hair is so thick. And over the years, as I've gotten older, it started to kind of like where you were saying the temples areas looked thinner. And I was like, what is going on? This is like nothing that I would think would ever happen. And I started taking neutrophil and it did help, I stopped it, but I just went back on it again recently because I felt like I should have probably taken it for longer. But anyway, I felt like it has worked a little bit for me. I'm not fully there yet, but what have you seen from clients and yourself? I don't know if you've tried it or not, or other things like that.

Speaker B: Yeah, my two go to's are neutrophil and cerrovital. Or cerrovital.

Speaker A: Oh, I haven't heard of that one.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's awesome. That one's probably my favorite because it has all of the vitamins and minerals that neutrophil has. But it also has like a stress support blend, which I personally, that's a big reason for me, losing hair is stress related. So that one's kind of like my favorite, my number one. But neutrophil is great too. I would say it's pretty helpful for most people because it has all of those hair growth vitamins in it. The one thing I will say is it is expensive and you have to take it three to four times a day. So for some people, if your hair loss is related to just like a vitamin D deficiency or an iron deficiency, you can get away a lot cheaper just taking like an iron pill or a vitamin D pill. Right? Yeah. So again, finding out why you're losing hair is a really good first step. If you are deficient in multiple things or you just want to help your hair look its best. Fill out densify. Yes. An overall supplement like neutrophil or cerrovitil is amazing.

Speaker A: Is ceraveetol as expensive as neutrophil?

Speaker B: I don't remember. Off the top of my head, I want to say it's a little bit cheaper. Yeah, but like pretty comparable.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny with neutrophil. You're right. I think they say to take four A day. I only actually take two because they're like big pills. And I'm not like, I hate taking pills, I'm like I'm just going to do this for a long time and take two because they do. I'm sure Cerebedal is the same where you have to take it over a long period of time. It's not like you can take it for a month or two. You really have to take it for an extended amount of time. Right, right.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Okay. I'm switching gears to just general hair stuff because I saw, and this was a while ago, but I saw you went on a brand trip for Dyson and you tested the airstrike. And at the time, well, I still don't have it. I actually just ordered it because of the Sephora sale. But I wanted to get your thoughts on it because, you know, the Dyson, it's got an air wrap, which I love and obsessed with. But I'm curious to know what you thought of the air straight.

Speaker B: I love it. It is so helpful for me because it's like a mix of a straightener and a blow dryer, obviously, but it doesn't make your hair so flat like a flat iron would.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And for me, like, having really fine, flat hair, I want these ends. I want this straight, but I don't want it to be pinned to my head, which happens when I straighten it. So the air straight is, like, a really nice volume straighten.

Speaker A: Yeah. I'm really excited to try it.

Speaker B: I've been wanting to make it.

Speaker A: Yeah. And to your point where you were saying, like, let your hair dry 80% of the way, and then using a tool like that feels like it would be a good one because it does at least style your hair so then you're not using another hair tool. It's like a two in one.

Speaker B: Exactly. And it's way less damaged than just like a flat iron would be.

Speaker A: Was it cool to go to the Dyson, like, HQ, wherever you are?

Speaker B: It blew my mind. I did not realize how. I mean, I knew it was high tech, but it was crazy.

Speaker A: Did they just reach out to you on TikTok or they.

Speaker B: I want to say they reached out to my management. So I actually, when I was out in California looking at apartments, I stopped by the Dyson store out in California and kind of made that connection, got my networking, and we just were so aligned because they're so into hair science and less damage. So it was just like a really aligned partnership for me. So we kind of just kept that connection. And when they released the airstrike, they were like, okay, this is perfect. Come learn about it. Learn the science. And of course, me being like a hair geek. I was like, oh, heck, yeah.

Speaker A: No, I saw that.

Speaker B: I was so excited for you.

Speaker A: I'm like, oh, my God, that's amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah. It was, like the most aligned thing ever for me.

Speaker A: Oh, my God. That's so cool. Yeah. I can't imagine what. I mean. It must be just. Yeah, because you're right. They're all about the science, and their.

Speaker B: Products are just so good.

Speaker A: Yeah, I'm excited to try it.

Speaker B: I'll keep you posted. I'm sure I'll love it.

Speaker A: I was, like, waiting. I was like, I'm going to do it on the Sephora sale. I'm going to take the plunge.

Speaker B: Yeah. That's like, all my friends were like, oh, it's so expensive. It's not worth it. And then they would all try mine, and the next day they're like, okay. So I ordered it.

Speaker A: I know, because with the. I don't know why I keep forgetting the name.

Speaker B: I'm like, air wrap.

Speaker A: Air wrap. I had bought it a really long time ago, before it became popular, and I was like, this is ridiculous, because it's so expensive. But it was, like, the best thing I had bought in years. Then I got rid of all my other tools, and I kept saying to Katie, like, you have to get. So, like, years later, she finally got it, and she's like, I mean, she's obsessed. She uses it every day, so I'm sure it'll be the same with airstream. So I'm excited to try it. Cool. So what are the most, just regarding hair, hair growth, what are the most common questions you're getting from your clients and people on social media? What are the main questions people are asking?

Speaker B: Kind of like, going back to what you asked, like, what's the quickest, easiest way to regrow hair? Which it's, like, impossible for me to answer that unless exactly who you are. And I've seen your scalp and I've seen your Hair and know your life. Also, a lot of questions on Rosemary. Just, I think there's a lot of misinformation out there. So people don't necessarily know the process. They don't know what to do. They're like, okay, I bought the rosemary. Now I have no idea how to use it. Right.

Speaker A: Tell me what to do. Break it down.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And it's hard to remember. Okay. When I first started using this, I had no idea what to do. So it's like, oh, put it on your scalp. And they're like, okay, but how? With my fingers or with the dropper? How do I do it? So a lot of confusion there.

Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker B: Yeah. Probably the biggest, too.

Speaker A: Do people ever ask about or do you talk to your clients about what foods are good for hair growth? I mean, is it like healthy fats and things like that?

Speaker B: Yeah, I do, because that's something I'm very passionate about, but I don't necessarily post about it as much because there's a lot of differing opinions out there. And, yeah, those posts usually get a lot of hate. Right. But I do personally talk to my clients about it. Yes.

Speaker A: Yeah. Give us one or two things that you think are good for hair growth. You won't get any hate because protein.

Speaker B: Being the best protein, make sure you're eating a really high protein diet because hair is made up of protein. So it's very important. Healthy fats, like you said, omega three s like fatty fish. And for women, iron is a big one, too.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that makes sense. I didn't think about that, but that's a good point.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, so before we go, I wanted to do our wrap session, which we did with you, obviously, two years ago. We're doing a redux of that. Okay. Is that how you say the word?

Speaker B: I'm like R-E-D-U-X-I don't know.

Speaker A: We're doing a rap session redo because I'm sure there are now more things that you are doing and we want to hear it. So you ready to go?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Let's do it. What's your favorite? Wellness or beauty hack?

Speaker B: Wellness or beauty Hack? Let me think for a minute. Okay, here's one. Okay. People like to wear rosemary oil on their scalp and go to bed because people don't have 3 hours to sit there and let it soak in and do its thing before they shampoo it out. But going to bed with rosemary oil on your scalp can clog your hair follicles overnight because it attracts dust. So a really good hack for that is either using like a Saran wrap or a shower cap to keep out the dust. And then you can sleep with your rosemary oil on.

Speaker A: And then in the morning, your hair must be like, I feel like so shiny and amazing.

Speaker B: Soaked it in. You've got your body heat going all night and then shampoo it out and it's good to go.

Speaker A: Oh, that's a good one. Okay, next question. Your five minute flow. And maybe it's different now that you're living in LA. So you just got out of the shower, you dried off. Uber's alerting you. They're five minutes away. What's your quick beauty routine? What do you put on your go tos to get dressed? Get out the door on time?

Speaker B: Love it. Okay, so right now I'm using Foley, a brand called merit, for my.

Speaker A: Oh, I love. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. I just discovered them, honestly, like, less than a month ago.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So good. Yeah, so it's like, I use their foundation, their bronzer, their blush, eyeshadow, and mascara, and I can do that all, like, my whole face. And it's, like, very clean girl aesthetic. I can do it in, like, four minutes with that brand.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that's what I've been doing. Honestly, that's all I do. And my hair, I'm on my no heat kick right now, so I just let it air dry.

Speaker A: Your hair looks amazing. It's so, like, long and beautiful.

Speaker B: Yeah, I dyed it blonde when I moved out here.

Speaker A: I was going to say it's lighter than I remember.

Speaker B: Yes. It's very light right now. And that damaged it so much. Like, I knew it was going to happen, but I was like, okay, I need to not do that again.

Speaker A: At least you're prepared. You probably've got all the things to keep it healthy with the blonde, but it looks beautiful. Yeah. So if you're running out the door with all the merit, and then. So what do you do with it? You just let it air dry or, like, throw it back?

Speaker B: Yeah, I brush it, pop in the leavein conditioNer, which I'm currently using a brand called Array. I think that's A-R-E-Y. Yeah. So they have, like, a leavein mist.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker B: And that's it. And then I'm out the door.

Speaker A: Out the door. I love Merritt. Katie and I did a product junkies episode a while ago, and we talked about Merrick. Katie actually introduced me to that brand because she was saying the same thing. She's like. It's literally, like a minute. I, like, swipe it on. It's like, you don't even need a brush. You can just do it with your fingers. It's so great.

Speaker B: And it literally blends so quick.

Speaker A: It's so good. And you know what I also do here's a little hack. You know the blush?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I also put that on my lips. Oh, yeah. It ties it all together.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, that's perfect.

Speaker A: And sometimes I do the Bronzer as eyeshadow, in a way.

Speaker B: Yeah, I bought the eyeshadow, and it's honestly very similar. I got, like, the same color as the bronzer, so I could have just got away with that.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, it's so good. Totally agree on that. Okay. And how do you maintain your daily Nirvana?

Speaker B: I do a lot of journaling, which, funny enough, I think that's what I said last time and I was just getting into my journaling game, but now that's like, it's my go to.

Speaker A: That's so good.

Speaker B: I'm somebody who. It's very hard for me to figure out how I'm feeling or thinking about things. It takes me a long time to process. So if I just start writing, put it on paper, it comes out so quick and I'm like, oh, okay. That's how I'm feeling about like, it's very easy for me to identify what's happening in my mind when I write it down.

Speaker A: That's awesome. And are you still meditating and all of those sorts of things?

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: That's great. What are you seeing? The differences between where you are. You're in. Yeah. In Michigan before this and LA, it's like, I'm sure completely different, but like, what are you?

Speaker B: Yeah, I. So I'm an introvert at heart.

Speaker A: Me too.

Speaker B: Yeah. But in Michigan, I was very isolated and there's not a lot to do. So I very much got stuck in that introvert trap where I'm not leaving my house at all. I'm leaving once a week to grocery shop. And it's like, painful for me. And out here, there's just so much going on constantly. You literally can't stay home. You look out the window and there's like ten things going on. So it's definitely brought me out of my shell and helped with my confidence and my happiness overall. I've met like a ton of friends, so just happier out.

Speaker A: That's so amazing. I'm in LA a lot for work, so I'll have to come find you next time so we can do coffee and actually meet in person. So I know you have some hot news and we'd love to hear what's next for you.

Speaker B: Definitely. So two big things coming up.

Speaker A: I can't wait.

Speaker B: First of all, I'm going to be releasing a beginner's hair care guide. So it's like the full you're just starting out on your hair routine. What the heck do you do? You're losing hair. Your hair is thinning. You just want healthier hair. All the above. It encompasses everything.

Speaker A: Oh, that's great.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Like a one step resource. How's it going to be distributed?

Speaker B: It's going to be an online guide, so it'll be easy, quick, it gets emailed to you the second you buy it and amazing. Go through it at your own pace.

Speaker A: That's so good. Okay. Amazing.

Speaker B: That's the first love that. Very excited about that. I've been literally grinding on it all day, every day.

Speaker A: I'm sure.

Speaker B: Yeah. Just making sure I cover all the bases. And then my bigger news that I'm very excited about is I will be opening an office in can. I got yes. Clients in person finally.

Speaker A: Oh, that is amazing. Congratulations.

Speaker B: Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Okay, so everybody that's listening, if you are in the California LA area, please go visit Taylor because it's going to be hard to get an appointment with you.

Speaker B: I feel like, yeah, it's going to be crazy. I get so many people asking me like, when are you going to see people? I will fly from wherever to see you and been waiting for the perfect office, the perfect opportunity. I finally found it.

Speaker A: Oh, good. Well, we are so happy for you. That's amazing news. And we'll link to everything. So people, if they want to come see you, travel to see you, if they're in California and they need a consultation, we will make sure to put all your info in the show notes and all that stuff. So congrats. That's amazing.

Speaker B: Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Yeah, so exciting. And with that, thank you for coming back and updating us on your life, telling us all the things we need to know about hair and sharing your exciting news. We're just so happy for you. It's great to see you've been growing in your career and of course all your content's amazing and we're just really happy for you. So thanks for coming back and sharing.

Speaker B: Thank you so much. And thank you for having me. I love, this is like the perfect full circle moment for me.

Speaker A: I know, I love it. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 127 - Laugh Lines and Lip Liner: Beauty Banter with TikTok Star and Makeup Artist, Erica Taylor - Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 127

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Speaker A: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker B: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker D: Bronzer and blush.

Speaker C: Bronzer blush. Favorite bronzer stick for blending rare beauty.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Have it on because they blend like butt up.

Speaker B: Does it?

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker D: So good. Yeah.

Speaker C: That's what I have on fade. Right?

Speaker D: It's like I just, like, throw it on and do this, and it's done.

Speaker C: Yeah. So that's my favorite. And then blush. I've been digging. The new makeup by Mario has these new cream that makes the skin just, like, really okay. Oh, powder blush. I love the House labs.

Speaker B: House Labs. I haven't tried any House labs yet. The makeup by Mario, I use the contour his contour stick.

Speaker C: I like that.

Speaker B: I love that that melts and blends. So haven't I don't know what's happening to that light. I haven't tried rare, and I haven't tried House labs.

Speaker C: If you think that Mario melts beautifully, the rare is even easier. So I feel like I love the Mario as a makeup artist, but I feel like a client that doesn't really know what they're doing is easier to f that up than the rare. Beauty.

Speaker B: It can be kind of heavy if you don't blend it the right way. Okay, so the rare is a little bit more blendable, but is it equally as long lasting as the makeup by Mario?

Speaker C: No.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: So I'm going out makeup by Mario every day. Rare.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker D: And the blush the makeup by Mario blush that you were just talking about, it's a cream blush.

Speaker C: You like a it's this size. I don't have it with me. So this is the bronzer version.

Speaker D: Okay. I think I know what you're talking about.

Speaker C: Watch this, though. You want to see me turn into JLo?

Speaker D: Yeah, let's do it. We know you love a JLo moment.

Speaker C: I do. Not my body, though. I got Delola. I haven't tried it yet. Doing?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: All right, let's see. Here she goes. Here she goes.

Speaker C: What this is this is a cream, and I want to get into my light. So this you put on, and I'm just using a big brush. And when you put this over your skin look at that glow.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: It's beautifully gives a sheen to the skin. Denser brush, just whatever's in front of me. I'm lazy.

Speaker B: It's a sheen, and it's a little bronzy, and it's giving you a little color.

Speaker D: Oh, that's so pretty.

Speaker B: Yes. That's beautiful.

Speaker C: So if that's another one that I'll put on in a pinch just to give a little more.

Speaker D: Like a cream that's a cream or a powder.

Speaker C: I can't tell. Like, a hybrid, and it gives, like, a so pretty.

Speaker D: Yeah, that's okay. So this is the makeup by Mario bronzer.

Speaker B: You can see the sheen.

Speaker D: A lot.

Speaker B: Gorgeous. Beautiful.

Speaker D: So pretty.

Speaker C: I also did your blush or just like that.

Speaker D: Oh, the blush is just like that. Okay. Yeah. I did the hack that you showed a while ago. The rare beauty, I think it's a highlighter, but it's like the dark color. And then you do it yes.

Speaker C: Reflect.

Speaker D: Yes. And you use it, and it almost looks like a bronzer and a blush together.

Speaker C: I love that.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker C: Highlight, though, that went viral and it hasn't been back since.

Speaker D: Yeah, like I said, I saw it and I got it right.

Speaker C: Like, what you do?

Speaker D: Yeah. Katie knows I'm a crazy person, so yeah. And I was using that for a while. I forgot about it. I'm going to use that again. Yeah. Because it's like I don't show it.

Speaker C: Though, because it's never in stock.

Speaker D: Yeah, but it's a good one. You just put it on, it almost looks like highlighter, and it looks like blush and bronzer. You don't need anything else.

Speaker C: Bronze highlighter in one.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: Back in stock.

Speaker D: Yeah. Like, I have the light one as a highlighter, and then I never thought to use the darker one as, like, a different way to use it. Okay.

Speaker C: Highlighter.

Speaker D: My favorite top highlighters are tough.

Speaker B: I'm really curious about this one.

Speaker C: I don't like a sparkly highlighter as much as I like a dewy, so I love, like, the Merit Kava stick or Westminton Atelier Brulee. And they have another stick, something that's more dewy.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: I would rather watch this. I'd rather take my lip gloss.

Speaker B: Oh, smart.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it just sheen picks up the light right away.

Speaker C: Love that sparkle situation. You see what that just did, right?

Speaker B: That is such a glass.

Speaker C: If you're in a pinch, you got some lines on your eyes. You want to the cheeks. Boom.

Speaker B: What a genius.

Speaker D: That's amazing.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Highlighter is tough because of the I think finding the right color for your skin tone, because if it's too light, you can tell you've got it on. If it's too dark, it can make your skin tone. Yeah. Or, I don't know, changes your you can make you orange. It's hard to find the right tone.

Speaker D: My favorite is doing the highlighter right in here.

Speaker B: Yeah. That looks great on you. When I do that a little crazy.

Speaker C: I like it with a little eyeshadow.

Speaker D: Yeah, it just, like, brightens the eyes.

Speaker C: A little bit, but definitely I like an easy one that will work on anybody is the Merit Kaba. It's just like because it's a clear highlight, you take it with your hand, pat it on.

Speaker D: Is that in the stick? Yes, I have the one that we have. I have that too. Yeah.

Speaker B: I haven't used it that much. I need to use it more.

Speaker D: It's in a white, like, container. Yeah, it's a little bit more dewy.

Speaker B: They have a couple of shades. I don't know if I have I might have, like, champagne or something.

Speaker C: That might be almost, like, clear.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker D: Oh, I don't have that one. Okay, good to know. Good to know. Talk about powder quickly, because I can't do it. And Katie has been into the powder.

Speaker B: That you love, your Makeup Forever powder the Twist. I love it.

Speaker C: I love it.

Speaker B: Explain to us the genius behind this, because it has three different powders. What does each of them do?

Speaker C: Basically, I think it's just show because they just cancel each other. Because you got your basic translucent right. You have your orange and blue.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker C: But you know what orange and blue do? They cancel each other out.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: So I think it's just for the mesmerized, but for the experience.

Speaker B: But isn't the orange powder kind of like the pink powder that blurs a little?

Speaker C: It'll even out a little bit.

Speaker B: And then does the blue reflect the light? Is that right?

Speaker C: Once they mix each other, they kind of cancel. So it just kind of makes a little bit of a blur screen.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: It's beautiful.

Speaker D: And then do you just do it lightly over the top with, like, a brush?

Speaker C: This is it. Oh, I just tried their brush, which I didn't even know I had. You see this? It's very fine. The reason I say just the tip is not because.

Speaker D: The best.

Speaker C: It's because if you're using your products with just the tip, you will always have an airbrushed look.

Speaker D: Oh, okay.

Speaker C: So what I do my eyes are still so puffy from Take Benadryl this morning, my eyes were, like, swollen.

Speaker D: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker C: Okay. So you go in the middle and, like, buff out. I buff around, and then on the eyes, I'll touch it really lightly, but I will never put a puff to my eye.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've been doing that. I need to stop. Okay.

Speaker D: So it's just and you do that at the ends of the hole here.

Speaker C: Very end, and then just a T zone around. And what it does is when you get those areas, we have this it's life. Someone said recently, I don't like the way you look with your new fillers. I'm like, I gained ten pounds.

Speaker D: Oh, I saw that video. I was laughing so hard when people say that.

Speaker C: I'm so mad. I'm like, I gained ten pounds.

Speaker D: You're like, there goes that's the filler.

Speaker C: Let's see.

Speaker D: It just kind of like yeah, wipes it away.

Speaker B: That's amazing.

Speaker D: Yeah. And it's just, like, a really light touch. It seems like it's a practice.

Speaker B: Just the tip.

Speaker C: The tip is powders will last me years.

Speaker D: Yeah, because you don't need a lot. I have the pink powder from Westman and Tallier that you recommended, so that's more pressed. But you could do the same thing, essentially, right?

Speaker C: You just absolutely.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: But this one's more glowy. So I like different powders for different reasons.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: So when people say to me, like, you use a lot of stuff. Yeah, and I also have a lot of shoes.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker D: It's like, depending on the vibe of.

Speaker C: The day, I don't wear the same jacket every day.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: So. I love the west metalier. I love it for under eye. It's the only one that will not crease under my eyes and my and.

Speaker D: How do you apply it? With a brush. Right.

Speaker C: A small brush.

Speaker D: I don't use the big one. Yeah.

Speaker C: I use a highlighter brush or something like a small version of this. Right. And again, I just gently press lightly.

Speaker D: Yeah. Here's what I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker B: When do I use translucent powder? When do I use the compact powder that has a little bit of the skin tone to it? What are the differences between those two? When am I using what?

Speaker C: Good question. Okay, so translucent powder will lock in your makeup.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: If you happy with your coverage, if you like a little more coverage, you might want to lock in someone with Rosacea might want to lock in their makeup with something with a little more coverage.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Now, take with you is a compact. Everyone says, Why does my makeup break up throughout the day? Well, because we have skin. We're not statues. So the pressed powder compacts go in your bag, never comes out of your bag. And when you apply because I was just thinking about doing a video on this, too, because this is common. I don't have the powder here, but I'll just show you. So when you apply it with the sponge, instead of rubbing powder, say, you're throughout the day, and what breaks up? This breaks up here, get a little red here, get a little breakthrough spots. So you take it, and you just gently repress the areas that need to be corrected without disrupting the whole situation.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker D: And does this look like a matte powder?

Speaker C: I like to use a few. The fenty powder foundation. I don't use them as powder foundations. The L'Oreal 24 hours when it's hot out is great for this and the makeup forever. The one the powder foundation, too, and I just use it, and it locks your makeup back in, and it looks brand new.

Speaker B: Yeah. I have a Laura Mercier compact powder that always stays in my handbag, and that's what if I start to, like if I'm sweating and this is starting to melt away, and I'm getting a little red here, but I've been wiping.

Speaker C: I haven't been putting a hole. And then you get, like, a weird kind of texture.

Speaker B: Yeah, I need to roll.

Speaker C: Take it and just kind of roll it right over. And you kind of like this.

Speaker B: And do I need to replace that sponge that came with my compact that.

Speaker C: I've been using for a mean I'm bad too. Somebody brushless dirty. I said, you just missed the part where I licked it. But yeah, just watch it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: So how do you come up with all these topics and first of all, you have all these hilarious sayings, like, just a tip and so funny abracadabra. And how do you come up with these things? You just are talking to people and you're like, oh, I should do a video on this. Or is it just kind of like.

Speaker C: Just whatever I think is useful. A tip of the day. And honestly, the things just fly out of my face. I don't even know. Next. That's why sometimes you see me laughing because I can't even believe what I just said. I remember I said, foundation so expensive, it should come with dentures.

Speaker B: It's great. That's amazing.

Speaker C: My husband is like, you are so crazy. Like, the abracadabra just came out over the river and through the hood. I've always said okay.

Speaker D: I always think of that when I'm putting on my eyeshadow.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, that's because I went to school to be a teacher first. Yeah, you will remember, like, what I say with the lashes under the lashes is like wiggle. It like a push up bra. Get under and lift. Right? So there's certain things that you'll remember. The apples falling from the tree. So that's why I do that. When I was training makeup artists, I've been saying it for years and teaching clients, I would write these things down to remember. I'd say, Lift the eye like a sunrise. So I just think it makes you remember.

Speaker D: Yeah, it totally does. Yeah, you're right. That's like the teaching part. You said something the other day in one of your videos when you went really close and it brought me back. Get a little closer. Remember that commercial? I was like I was like, oh, my God, that is such a retro throwback. I love it. So funny, right? They just live and they come out in random. Yeah, that's so funny.

Speaker C: One time I said something, I go I just focus on the face because my body, it's all like flowers in the attic. I don't know where that came from either.

Speaker B: That movie. Oh, my God, that's so funny.

Speaker D: So funny.

Speaker B: I remember watching that movie as a kid and then it's like, so creepy. Totally.

Speaker D: Oh, my God, I haven't heard that in so long.

Speaker C: Jokes I say and the things I say, just we would get right?

Speaker D: Which is why it's so funny and so relatable. I love it. So, what is your family like? What does your husband and kids think of all of your TikTok TikTok social media success?

Speaker C: My husband's so supportive. He's proud. He loves what I make. People laugh. Like, the biggest thing when we met and his parents met me, we were laughing so much. He goes, that's how I know this was the girl for you know he's so proud. I went away when I hit my million. I had an event with L'Oreal and I came back and made a big sign on the like, he's always been very supportive of my career. He's a teacher, so he is always because he's home and has a stable schedule, it's always provided me to be able to travel and do my thing, even in retail when I was a digital director.

Speaker D: Right. You're running around babies.

Speaker C: He had to pick up the pieces. So he's always been, like, a major supporter. And my kids are funny.

Speaker D: Yeah. Your daughter, I see her cameo on some of your vids when you go to Sephora and stuff.

Speaker C: It's so planning her career. He's going to keep making cameos on mine until she branches off.

Speaker D: They must think you're the coolest thing ever, by the way.

Speaker C: They do. They think I'm pretty cool. And even before all of this, I'm always funny and I behave like a child in my house. I'm called the fourth child. They're like, can you help with homework? I'm like, oh, no, not it.

Speaker B: Call dad.

Speaker D: Yeah, girl math. Girl math.

Speaker B: I mean, he is a teacher.

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. I'd be like, It's on you. Okay. And what is your favorite part of all of this? Like, being the beauty queen that you are. What do you love about it? I mean, it's obvious, but what's your favorite part?

Speaker C: I've spent all this time away from my family, and I missed out on a lot in my life because I chose a life of retail. And even as a regional manager director, I worked every weekend with my teams because I felt like I can't lead if I don't do it myself. And I missed out on birthdays. I missed out. I was the mom that was never there. I was never the class mom, never the PTA mom. So I love that this has allowed me to have that, but I love that it makes my sacrifice worth.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Now, I used to do classes and I would teach clients, but I can teach a million people how to do their eyeliner. And it feels like everything I've learned over these close to 30 years, I'm actually using.

Speaker D: Yeah, for sure. It all worked out. At the end of the day, it's all for a reason.

Speaker C: You guys say, like, my husband said I look beautiful, and not that that matter. It matters to us. It's not that someone else thinking we're beautiful, but everybody stopped and asked me if I got my face worked up. People, the girls, the young girls at work are telling me how beautiful I look. And it's just these stories that I keep hearing that you made me love makeup again. I'm not scared to try it. Of course I get the trolls and the people that say, like, stupid stuff, but I've been one piece something years in retail. You think I haven't been yelled at by better?

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: Those trolls you're like, yeah, trolls are everywhere.

Speaker C: Screamed at in person. Bosses torture me.

Speaker B: You're like, this?

Speaker C: You're just shot.

Speaker B: I can just delete you. Yeah.

Speaker C: I'm like, fine, girl, I'm going to unfollow you. I was like, what? I'm going to block you first.

Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. Like, who cares? Go do it. Let them. Let them.

Speaker C: And this is just a sidebar of that. I do collapse and people are like, oh, you got paid for this, and how dare you? And I'm like, you know what? I am an industry professional, right? For almost 30 years. You should be happy it's me endorsing. Because I know what the f I'm talking about.

Speaker D: Exactly.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Person that married some rich guy that looks gorgeous, likes a new eye cream, and you all buy it.

Speaker B: Why are they ****** that you're having these collabs and making money and sharing this with the world?

Speaker C: God bless my experience, right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: An experienced doctor is going to get something different than somebody who's just still in school.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: If I decide to start pulling people's teeth and I'm getting real good at you want me to pull you more Insurer? I'd be paid for that. I've been practicing vaginal rejuvenation. Real good at it.

Speaker B: Oh, my God.

Speaker D: Hilarious. Okay, so before we get into our rap session, where can people find you? What's your socials? Give us the deets.

Speaker C: Erica Taylor, 23 47. On pretty much all the platforms. TikTok is my biggest platform. I have a healthy base on Instagram. I have a little do, a little bit on Facebook. Not a ton. Yeah, it was always Erica Taylor, 23 47 and some YouTube.

Speaker D: All right, nice.

Speaker C: Good to know 23 47 means nothing. Yeah.

Speaker D: I was going to ask you, does that have significance?

Speaker C: 2016. And I didn't know what I was doing. And there were other Erica Taylor's and they just designated me that number.

Speaker D: So that's you now. That's good numbers for you. Good luck. And you just had your birthday, right? Didn't you just turn 47?

Speaker B: There you go.

Speaker D: Happy birthday. Okay, getting into our wrap session. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Speaker C: Exfoliate.

Speaker B: Okay. How often?

Speaker C: Whenever your face tells you when you.

Speaker D: Look crusty, when you're looking Aberra Cadaver.

Speaker C: Skincare, you don't want to be abracadabra. How many women will stop me and say, what foundation should I get? And I'm like, do you want me to when's the last time you exfoliated your skin? And I know when I look at someone if they exfoliate or not, and I'll never make somebody feel bad.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: So I ask and when they pause, I'm like, yeah, you can wear any foundation if you exfoliate.

Speaker B: Do you have a favorite exfoliant? What do you use?

Speaker C: Yeah, I love the first aid beauty pads. They're one and done. I'm super lazy.

Speaker D: Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: And they're gentle. The reason when I recommend something like that, I don't just get a new one and say, this is awesome. I know that tons of my clients use it and they're also very sensitive.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: And that's you just use that in the morning. Right. That's like the kind or you could use it, I guess, at night, too, depending.

Speaker C: Yeah, anytime. Just if you feel your face and touch it, touch your forehead. If it feels textural or it feels sandy, you got to exfoliate. Yeah, it doesn't tip.

Speaker D: I feel like every time I put on Exfoliate, I do exfoliator a lot, but I feel like when I do it and my makeup, everything looks better. And people say to me, oh, you look like glowy today. And I'm like thinking to myself because I exfoliated.

Speaker C: True story.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker D: Okay. Five minute flow. You say the five minute flow.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: All right, Erica, we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower, dried off. An Uber has pinged you. They're five minutes away. What are you going to put on? What are you going to do to get out the door and into that Uber in five.

Speaker C: On? I'm going to put my hair, I'm going to shake my hair, put some dry shampoo and shove it into a situation like this. Then I'm going to use Sunday Riley after glow cream because it always makes me glowy. I'm going to put on the CC. It cosmetics, nude glow because it's got skincare coverage and SPF. Plus it's glowy. All right, I'm going to take the rare beauty contour stick and eyeliner. That's it.

Speaker B: And you're set.

Speaker C: I'll take the eyeliner in the car. I'll do the eyeliner in the car.

Speaker B: That's impressive because you can do that cat eye in the car while it's moving.

Speaker D: What about mascara? Do you throw on mascara or you just do the eyeliner?

Speaker C: If I'm an emergency, I'm doing eyeliner.

Speaker D: Wow. Okay.

Speaker B: Do you have a favorite dry shampoo?

Speaker C: Yes, for different reasons. Just for, like, really oily days. Living proof, but for days that I want texture and volume. The fakai volume. It's right here because I don't have it makes my hair look fuller. The fakai full blown volume.

Speaker D: Oh, nice.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Complimentary with a hair gift with purchase.

Speaker B: I love that. When you do your videos and you're like, oh, wait a second, I've got this. Wait, there's something right here. And it's always right there. I mean, you are sitting at, I assume, your table.

Speaker C: I'll show you guys.

Speaker B: Yeah, let's see it. This is behind the scenes.

Speaker D: Behind the scenes, BTS.

Speaker B: Oh, nice. All your things.

Speaker C: My skincare situation, the ones I use the most.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Random hairbrush because I threw it in. Then I have like, over here, like a lot of my just everyday basis.

Speaker D: Your go to, you got it all.

Speaker B: It's all there.

Speaker D: But it looks like you have a nice little vanity light set up. So it's like yeah.

Speaker C: And then I have a little desk set up here. I had this once, my social I was doing when I started all I was in my bedroom.

Speaker D: Right. I remember that.

Speaker C: On a little thing like this. I love those days. I love those. But eventually I needed more space. So we redid the basement and I have a little studio.

Speaker B: That's nice.

Speaker D: I love it. Okay.

Speaker C: Plus my clothes are crazy.

Speaker D: I love it.

Speaker B: Oh, my God, tons of shoes.

Speaker C: I love sneakers.

Speaker D: Me too. You do?

Speaker C: What kind of sneakers do you like?

Speaker D: I mean, you name mean Nikes. I love New Balance, Golden Goose. What else do I have? I don't know. Adidas. I have everything. I'm like, obsessed with, like, a fun shoe.

Speaker C: Me too. I don't care if it's expensive. If it's cheap, I see it. I love it. I like the real crazy, like, Dunks, I think.

Speaker D: Oh, yeah, I love the Dunks. My kids love the Dunks.

Speaker C: So good.

Speaker D: And I love Sweatshirts. Noticing that you're wearing a sweatshirt. I love a good sweatshirt. We'll send you one of our good Nirvana sweatshirts.

Speaker B: Yeah, we need to send you one of ours.

Speaker D: Yes. We'll give you a good sweatshirt. Okay.

Speaker C: Rock it.

Speaker D: Okay. I love it. How do you maintain and last question, how do you maintain your daily Nirvana?

Speaker C: That's a good question. I just think that you can't waste time on the negativity because it derails you. So I shake it off and I try to keep laughing and find joy in everything.

Speaker D: I love it.

Speaker C: I do with my kids, my husband. I think it's so easy to get wrapped up into the negativity. But what I always say, and even when my husband gets stressed or anyone, I go, you can't control the situation you're in, but you can control how you handle it.

Speaker D: That's right.

Speaker C: Your situation is your situation. Right. No matter what. But how you handle it, that's up to you. And that's how you take your control back.

Speaker B: That's so true.

Speaker D: And then you always got the wine.

Speaker C: Oh, please, girlfriend. The other day, she goes, I thought you weren't drinking during the week. How's that going? I was like, oh, no, I'm drinking.

Speaker D: What's your favorite wine? You like a red, a white, over a day or at week?

Speaker C: And I'm still half the same weight, so no, I like white. I like a Pinot Grigio.

Speaker B: Okay, all right. I'm a white girl, too. Sauvignon blanc.

Speaker D: Yeah. Sauvignon blanc. I like But I like red, too, and I like it all, too.

Speaker C: Like, if I don't have a white, I'll drink the red.

Speaker D: Right?

Speaker C: If I'm there with you and you're like, I only have red, I'm like.

Speaker D: All right, yeah, let's go.

Speaker B: Not saying no, exactly.

Speaker D: Anyway, so I'm so glad that we got to meet you. This has been such a highlight of our day, and you spent so much time with us, and we really appreciate it, and we're so happy to have you part of the Nirvana Sisters family. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being on.

Speaker C: Thank you for everything that you guys do. And you're spreading joy, and you just bring happiness, and you're real. And that's why I wanted to do this with you.

Speaker D: You're so sweet.

Speaker C: Thank you. How your attitude and your energy and I totally dug it.

Speaker D: I love it. Thank you so much.

Speaker C: Full I'm a babbler.

Speaker D: US too.

Speaker B: We babble.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us.

Speaker D: Tune in next week for a fresh.

Speaker A: New episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness, so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 126 - Laugh Lines and Lip Liner: Beauty Banter with TikTok Star and Makeup Artist, Erica Taylor - Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 126.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your Nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:28] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show nirvana Sisters Family. It's Amy and Katie, and we are so excited about today's episode. You will hear who we are talking with very shortly, but if you want a no BS makeup recommendations tricks the real deal for mature women or mature women, as our guest says, with a side of comedy, relief and entertainment, erica Taylor is your girl. We have mentioned you, Erica, so many times on our show, I can't even tell you. Like, you've been on our blog. We've talked about you. We've recommended a million things that you've recommended that we've tried. So let me give everybody a background on Erica before we do our chitchat. Erica Taylor has been in the cosmetic industry for over 25 years, working with top brands mac, Laura, Mercier Benefit Cosmetics, and Trish McEvoy. She is a professional makeup artist and a mom of three living in New York. Erica majored in art education in college, initially aspiring to be an art teacher, but instead decided to search for a career that would allow her to be more creative. She was always the unofficial makeup artist to her friends and family, and an interview at the Matte Counter at Macy's became the official start of her professional career in makeup. In 2021, she started sharing her makeup tick sorry, wrong word. She started sharing her makeup tips and techniques for any age on her social media and has quickly become a trusted expert to her more than 1.4 million engaged followers. If you don't follow her on TikTok, you need to be following her. She is the best. In 2023, she was named L'Oreal Paris League of Experts and continues to be a major authoritative figure in the beauty and Skincare me. Welcome to the show, Erica. We are so happy to have you been I've been stalking her. Just so everybody knows. I've like, DM'd her. I went on her TikTok live. I'm like, you got to come on the pod. You got to come on the pod. We want to talk to you and pick your brains. So welcome to the show, Erica. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[02:20] Erica Taylor: I'm so excited to be here and thank you so much for all the support.

[02:23] Amy Sherman: Yes, of course. So we always kick off the show, take a step back, and we do our Nirvana of the Week, which is just something that brought us joy, big or small, something that put a smile on our face and made us feel good. So I'm going to kick it off to you, Katie. What is your Nirvana this week?

[02:36] Katie Chandler: I think my Nirvana this week is being here. Amy and I are recording together live we are not on two separate screens. I'm not in Connecticut. We are together. So I'm home from Rosh Hashanah. And aside from right now, this moment getting in last night and know my in laws, my mother and father in law, my nephews Amy and her husband Stu, and all of us just sitting around the table having dinner, that was mine.

[03:01] Erica Taylor: What about you?

[03:03] Amy Sherman: So mine. I had a really cute moment with my older son. So I have two boys, Erica. One's an 11th grader in high school and I have another son who's in 8th grade. And my 11th grader has been really into cooking lately, which is unusual because he never really cooked before. But all of a sudden he has been seeing these recipes on TikTok and he wanted to make some. So we got all these ingredients and we cooked together twice last weekend. And one was like some buffalo chicken, blah blah blah recipe he wanted to make. Another one is the calzones. And we made like handmade dough and homemade dough and all of that, so it was so fun. So I was his sous chef and he was like the main chef, but it was so fun just bonding and collaborating and chatting and just having kind of tactile hands on activities. So it was a really fun bonding moment. I don't get a lot of time with him, so that was good. What about you, Erica?

[03:47] Erica Taylor: That's awesome. I had a nice moment this morning when we missed the bus with the kids and I had a neighbor's kid with me too, and took them for some fun breakfast. Got a lot of laughs on the way to sometimes, you know, just starting your day, like, just I was like, all right, I'm in my pajamas, like, I guess. Breakfast time. Let's go.

[04:06] Amy Sherman: I love it.

[04:07] Katie Chandler: That's great. You took a negative. Oh, ****, we missed the bus until let's go have some fun. I love that. That's a fun mom right there. I don't know a lot of moms that would do that. That's great.

[04:17] Amy Sherman: Yeah. Cool mom.

[04:17] Erica Taylor: I wasn't always like that. I used to be like a super psycho in the mornings and when I had to get to work and run meetings and I decided a couple of years ago that I wanted to make them laugh and go to school happy every morning. So I put everything aside and I said, nobody can reach out to me until my kids are on the bus.

[04:36] Amy Sherman: Smart.

[04:37] Katie Chandler: I love that. That's great.

[04:39] Amy Sherman: That's good. That was the opposite of me this morning, trying to get my kids to school. I was, like, telling Katie, I just woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning. And I was like, so mean this morning. And normally I'm, like, try to be positive in the morning, but I was.

[04:51] Erica Taylor: Just like, feel so bad.

[04:52] Katie Chandler: All know? Yes, I know it's true. Sending them off when you're so i.

[04:57] Amy Sherman: Like, hadn't had my coffee. I was a little cranky. But hopefully it happens. It happens.

[05:01] Erica Taylor: It happens to me, too.

[05:02] Amy Sherman: It happens. It happens. Okay, so, Erica, tell us about you. Give us your know, we just know you from watching all of your hilarious and educational videos on TikTok, but tell us how it all started. I mean, obviously you've been in the business a really long time, but give us your story for everyone who doesn't know you.

[05:20] Erica Taylor: Well, I was in school, like you said. You gave me a great, true story. I was in school to be an art teacher, and I was like, that 90s, kind of, like, really goth looking kid, so nobody would hire me. It's probably circa, like, 97, right? So I was looking for a job, and I couldn't find one. And someone said to me, you do such beautiful makeup. Why don't you just work in cosmetics? I said okay. I marched to Macy's. So actually, I did end up at Mac relatively quickly, but my first was prescriptive color matching.

[05:51] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[05:52] Erica Taylor: And then I spent a little time in Elizabeth Arden. I never want to smell Fifth Avenue or Red Door again. So relatively quickly, I got recruited to the Mac store in Roosevelt Field in Long Island, and that was, like, the place to be around 1920 years old. That this was super exciting. I wasn't as good as the rest of them, but I just worked really hard. I did every late shift, every schedule. They asked me to stay, and then they kept me on full time. And I, six months later, applied to be a senior trainer for Mac. I was not even close to ready. I tanked the interview. Embarrassing, crazy, making up the answers, all sorts of crazy. But then I learned what everything I did wrong. And a few months after that, I tried out for a low level trainer, like a store trainer. I got it, and I could have folded and been embarrassed. And I think what has always pushed me in this industry is I'm not afraid of embarrassing myself. I take it as a challenge. I don't just tuck my tail in and shut down. And that has been every other place I went to. I was once recruited to different companies. I met great people. I've worked with so many great people. I got to do, like, runway, fashion shows, all of this. This was not my passion. First of all, I'm five foot one. I was tired of seeing all these false emails. Why does it look like this on me? But I love training in store teams, building teams, and I'm very social, so I really liked I work harder for someone else than I do for myself, which is my biggest challenge now.

[07:41] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I get it.

[07:42] Erica Taylor: And so I was just to say, I'm institutionalized. So then what I did for a lot of companies is I would train the makeup artists and build their sales teams.

[07:51] Amy Sherman: Yeah. I mean, it makes sense that you're saying you like the training part because you wanted to be a teacher.

[07:55] Erica Taylor: Right?

[07:56] Amy Sherman: So it's like, the same, like, educating, which is what you're doing now on TikTok. So when did you you only started TikTok, what, a few years ago? Because I remember watching you when you were still working full time and doing TikTok, and I remember the transition. So tell us about that a little.

[08:10] Erica Taylor: I during the pandemic, I learned a little more on social media, and I was always one of the trend shows. You know, when you go like, a Nordstrom trend show and there's someone presenting and to be master classes, and that was me. So I'm very comfortable in front of a crowd.

[08:22] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[08:22] Erica Taylor: And again, because I don't mind embarrassing myself, if I trip, if I say something wrong, I just laugh at myself. I'm like, you got to own it. Yeah. So I started just doing lives. I was furloughed. We were all furloughed. There was no work.

[08:37] Amy Sherman: Yeah, same.

[08:38] Erica Taylor: So I started doing lives with the companies. And I'd rather say the freestanding, independent stores that still could function were doing curbside service. They were still selling, and we're having trouble keeping the doors open. So I'm not talking about, like, your Nordstrom's, your Bloomingdale's, these big doors. I'm talking about there's a great little store, beauty in Maine, in Massachusetts, and there's a great mirror mirror in Vermont. So I started doing lives with them for no other reason, just to help them keep their business going. Yeah, there was really nothing in it for me, but I loved doing it because it was social. So I was like everyone was like, you're really freaking funny. Like, you should be doing this more. So then I stopped for a while when I went back to work, and a friend of mine was having some success on TikTok, and I was like, I did a couple of videos, but they were just, like, super losers. She was like, what do you want to find? I said, I don't need to be major. I just want to find my tribe. Because she was like, I've never seen my age because I don't want to pinhole myself. And I was like, I want my girls. I want my over 40s crowd, my funny moms, drink some wine, have some laughs, put some makeup on. I want that tribe.

[10:00] Katie Chandler: Yeah, we found you.

[10:02] Erica Taylor: Yeah.

[10:02] Amy Sherman: Here we are. We're the exact same age. Erica yeah. And Katie's a little younger, but yeah, we always talk about that when you wake up and you're like, I drank too much of the wine last night, and I'm puffy. I was so and that's why we love you so much, and we know our audience will because you're so relatable, and it's not exactly like you're saying your age. You're saying you drink. It's like, this is how we all are.

[10:27] Erica Taylor: Like one of those pretend social media lives, right?

[10:29] Amy Sherman: Exactly.

[10:30] Erica Taylor: People are like, how do you organize your makeup? I'm like, It was a disaster. And I just think that so many people try to live up to these expectations of what they think this social media life is. And, like, I drink wine, I got to get my kids on the bus, I wake up banked up, but I still want to look good, too. Right?

[10:48] Amy Sherman: We have a good question for you later to figure out how you do that. And it's very similar with us in our show. We have this relatable point of view on well being. So it's like, we're mom, same as you. We try to break things down when we talk to different people because there's so many beauty wellness, makeup people out there that it just feels intimidating, and it feels like, well, I can't be like that, so I'm just not going to do anything. And it's like, no, here's some bite sized things you can do. Here's the concealer hack, the whatever. Well, that's an amazing story. And then what happened? You just kept making videos, and then it just built from there.

[11:26] Erica Taylor: My first viral, and I won't say names, but the company I worked for, it was kind of this underlying pressure of we have to do it our way, their way. But I don't live that way. And you can have me when I'm on the clock, but when I'm home, I'm home. I'm not fluffing my pillows. I'm not wearing beautiful white pajamas. I'm wearing a hoodie that I've worn for the last three nights. My hair looks nuts, and my bed is not made behind me. So I did this video. I just said, you know what effort. I don't ask for permission. I just beg for forgiveness.

[12:04] Amy Sherman: Right?

[12:04] Erica Taylor: So I just did an eyeliding video that I was, like, joking around, and I was like, Listen. I was like, Grab your eyeliner and a glass of wine and a great attitude. I was like, I'm just kidding. Forget about the great attitude. And I just taught some eyeliner. I go to sleep, and the next morning, it had, like, 500,000 views.

[12:22] Amy Sherman: Oh, my God.

[12:23] Erica Taylor: And my followers went from 3000 to 10,000 to 20,000. And I hate saying followers, to be honest, too. I think that's so creepy.

[12:32] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[12:32] Erica Taylor: I always say, like, my community. Because you're not no, it's my follower. You could follow everyone, but I always say the people that want to learn, my community. And then I was like, People want to learn and they want to laugh, right?

[12:46] Katie Chandler: Yes.

[12:47] Erica Taylor: There was no one else doing it. And I was like, It doesn't have to be perfect. We're not winning a Cat Eye award. Try to look a little freaking normal, right?

[12:54] Amy Sherman: Try to be put together and feel like a human. Right?

[12:59] Erica Taylor: I think that's what people resonated with. Like, oh, I can do that. I can do yeah, yeah.

[13:04] Amy Sherman: And Erica has these great things where when you do like, half the face of something and half the face of the other, it's incredible.

[13:10] Katie Chandler: It's amazing.

[13:10] Amy Sherman: Like, just the little tweaks you can make that make such a huge difference. It's amazing.

[13:14] Katie Chandler: Yeah. You can really see it through TikTok, through the camera. The difference that you do from one side of the face to the other, it's amazing how well it shows. It's very cool. I mean, the tricks and the techniques, that's what we need to get into.

[13:28] Erica Taylor: Because yeah, well, if you think, sorry, I'm an interrupter.

[13:32] Amy Sherman: No, please, it's all good.

[13:34] Erica Taylor: Family interrupter. But I was in sales, so in sales, you have to train people. You have to make big impact quick. So I would learn the tips and tricks that made a major difference quickly, but were useful. And I would do it on a client and she'd be like, okay, give me that, give me this.

[13:57] Amy Sherman: Right?

[13:58] Erica Taylor: So that's the same thing. I think, on social media, you've got to show the impact quickly. I think I started a trend because everyone and their sisters, aunts, everyone is doing the same exact thing and I'm like, at least say, like, thank you, right?

[14:16] Katie Chandler: Give credit where credits do.

[14:18] Erica Taylor: I know, but you know what? It's hard. Don't get me wrong. Certain days I see people recreating my videos all over and I'm just like, but it's wasted energy, right?

[14:29] Amy Sherman: And they're not you, so it doesn't matter. And then how did you decide what was the tipping point on when you left your other job to do this full time?

[14:39] Erica Taylor: So I never thought this was even a career, right? When people used to say to me that they were bloggers, I was like, Get a job, right?

[14:47] Amy Sherman: You're like rolling your eyes like, okay.

[14:49] Erica Taylor: Or I used to have to do these influencer events where I would have to entertain the influencer. And I'm like, they don't even buy anything. Everybody comes in and drinks the booze, they bring their friends and family and they leave. I was like, I don't want to do it.

[14:59] Katie Chandler: Right?

[14:59] Erica Taylor: One I just kept growing my base and I could only show one brand. And in order I was getting all these brands reaching out to me and all these people saying, can you show something else? I can't afford that brand, or, I just want to see a clean beauty of this. A that. And there came a point where I could no longer juggle both. I either would stay as a regional manager for the rest of my life and retire there, still pacing hard floors of the malls and running chasing clients down like little **** of OG for Hug or I take a chance on myself.

[15:40] Katie Chandler: So I took a chance and it's paid off. 1.4 million. That's right. Is that what you said earlier?

[15:47] Amy Sherman: 1.4 million? But I mean, millions, I'm sure, and millions more videos. Because on TikTok, everyone. I mean, like, when I first saw you, it's not like I was following you at that point. I just saw your content. So, I mean, it's just such a great story. So thank you for sharing that piece of your story. Congratulations on all your success. So let's get into still very surreal.

[16:09] Erica Taylor: I'm sure it is mega impostor syndrome, because I've always been the makeup person at the event. I've never been the guest of the event.

[16:18] Amy Sherman: Right, and now I'm sure you're getting invited to all the things.

[16:21] Erica Taylor: Yes. And I still would rather hang out with people that work there. I'm still definitely institutionalized.

[16:27] Amy Sherman: Well, I remember you talking about you went to a rare beauty event or something, and it was all the young influencer people.

[16:35] Erica Taylor: I'm usually, like, at least 20 years older than the Red. We're not talking just, like, five to ten. It's like, I could be their mothers.

[16:43] Katie Chandler: I'm so curious what these events are. Like, what are these younger influencers doing at these events?

[16:51] Amy Sherman: Drinking the drinks.

[16:53] Erica Taylor: I mean, some that I met are lovely, and others are just walking around trying to be cooler than the next.

[16:58] Katie Chandler: Yeah, right.

[17:00] Erica Taylor: But it reminds me when I used to go to these cosmetics conferences and the trainer events for Mac and who was wearing what and walking around trying to be the coolest. So I don't sweat it because I get it. I probably was there 20 years ago too.

[17:14] Amy Sherman: Yeah, exactly.

[17:15] Erica Taylor: I do sometimes just walk around laughing, like, where am I?

[17:18] Amy Sherman: I know, I'm sure it's so surreal. Okay, so let's get into some of your favorites, because there's so many things and so many products you talk about, but for the basics.

[17:29] Katie Chandler: Right?

[17:31] Amy Sherman: Want to talk about some of your favorites? Okay, so let's go, as you would say, concealer.

[17:37] Erica Taylor: Okay, let's go. My number one is the Dior Backstage, hands down. But if you're into the clean beauty, the.

[17:46] Katie Chandler: I love the on. I do COSIS, because of you. Is the Dior Backstage as creamy and moisturizing as the kosis?

[17:56] Erica Taylor: It's not creamier.

[17:57] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[17:58] Erica Taylor: And I will say it has a better color range.

[18:02] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[18:03] Erica Taylor: But it doesn't have that skincare element.

[18:05] Amy Sherman: And COSIS has more the skincare element, more skincare.

[18:08] Erica Taylor: So that's why those are more my everyday. So going out, I have different I do something heavier, but, like, just for everyday life. Dior backstage coset.

[18:17] Katie Chandler: And to be clear, one of the biggest reasons why you like it, for mature skin, it does increase the creamy. It melts into your skin a little bit better. Right?

[18:28] Erica Taylor: Yeah. When I look for a concealer, I don't care what the hottest trend is, because that's irrelevant to me. And most of my clients or people that watch me don't care either. Right. So I feel on my hand textures. Okay, you go into a store and you put a concealer on your hand, and it gets dry on your hand. Forget it.

[18:46] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[18:47] Erica Taylor: So they're creamy, they're hydrating, and they just have, like, a medium natural coverage. Not like a theatrical situation.

[18:55] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's I think a thing is concealers that are too heavy sometimes. Like, for every day, they look worse. They look worse. Can get cakey.

[19:04] Erica Taylor: Yeah.

[19:04] Katie Chandler: All right.

[19:06] Erica Taylor: Not real life.

[19:07] Katie Chandler: It's not natural.

[19:09] Amy Sherman: Yeah. You did a video, and for our Nirvana Sisters family, check this out. It was so helpful the other day on concealer and how to actually apply it correctly so it doesn't crease regardless of what concealer you use. Where you put on. I think it was like the oil or something. I can't remember.

[19:25] Erica Taylor: I have to eye oil or an eyeball you have to do something hydrating. So there are concealers that will cleave less than others.

[19:33] Amy Sherman: Right.

[19:34] Erica Taylor: But if you're not prepped the right way, those are going to freeze, too.

[19:36] Amy Sherman: Exactly. So the eye oil is a freaking game changer for me. When I saw that video early on what's the brand?

[19:45] Erica Taylor: A little cora.

[19:47] Amy Sherman: Cora, right. I went out and got it probably before it got sold out, and I was like, this is the biggest, and I reviewed it. We do a show called Product Junkies. We review stuff. And that was one of the things I talked about and talked about you, because that is the biggest game changer to put on before mascara, but also later at night when you just want to fix your eyes up and they're dry. It's amazing.

[20:08] Katie Chandler: You mean before concealer? Putting it on before concealer?

[20:10] Amy Sherman: Yeah, or just like a reapplication. If you have, like, old concealer and you just kind of, like, throw that on and then throw more concealer on top, it's beautiful. It's a game changer. But anyway, yes, that's what you were talking about the other day, but so that was super helpful. The application, I take that with me.

[20:22] Erica Taylor: Everywhere because I look in the mirror somewhere and I'm like, oh, no, I take a little bit, I put it on, I'm like, boom.

[20:31] Katie Chandler: After you put it on, do you put more concealer on it, or you feel like it just kind of rehydrates the concealer that you already have on?

[20:37] Erica Taylor: It usually rehydrates what I have on.

[20:38] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[20:39] Erica Taylor: If you're like looking to reapply without taking your whole face off, you can use it that way as well. But usually what I do is I'll roll it on my hand so I don't disrupt the coverage, and then just pat over and it just releases the creases.

[20:52] Katie Chandler: Okay. Yeah, that's a great trick. That's a great one. All right, let's go.

[20:56] Amy Sherman: I have to ask Erica if she likes my favorite other. It's not even concealer. It's a color corrector. The Milani. Have you tried that?

[21:03] Erica Taylor: Yes. The mean for me, there's the peach and the rose.

[21:08] Amy Sherman: Yeah. So I use the peach every day. I'm like, that is almost I use that sometimes instead of concealer. I mean, it's like a color corrector. But it's kind of a skincare concealer, too.

[21:16] Erica Taylor: I think it's sheer and hydrating.

[21:17] Amy Sherman: Incredible.

[21:18] Erica Taylor: Agreed.

[21:19] Amy Sherman: Okay. I'm glad you like it, too. Okay.

[21:21] Katie Chandler: Mascara and a good drugstore find by.

[21:23] Amy Sherman: The good price point.

[21:26] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[21:26] Amy Sherman: So cheap. Okay, mascara.

[21:28] Katie Chandler: What's your fave?

[21:29] Erica Taylor: The OG Telescopic.

[21:31] Amy Sherman: Okay.

[21:32] Katie Chandler: Telescope. Who's that by?

[21:34] Erica Taylor: L'Oreal.

[21:35] Amy Sherman: L'Oreal.

[21:36] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[21:36] Amy Sherman: This one, I think I have that another drugstore find. Oh, that's the one with the two sides, right?

[21:42] Erica Taylor: No, this is the original.

[21:43] Amy Sherman: The original.

[21:44] Erica Taylor: So you don't have to navigate which side you're using, because sometimes that's a lot, too.

[21:49] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[21:50] Erica Taylor: So this one is tiny, so as we mature, our lashes get thinner. So you always think, bigger brush, bigger lash? No, because a bigger brush could not get to the root of the problem. So when you go under and wiggle at the base and lift, you're actually catching every little baby hair that a big brush can't.

[22:11] Amy Sherman: Right, that makes sense.

[22:13] Katie Chandler: And then wait, what color was that? That wasn't black mascara.

[22:16] Erica Taylor: Was that was that clear? It's almost like an off black.

[22:20] Katie Chandler: Okay. So is there any reason why you choose a specific color off black or no reason, right?

[22:27] Erica Taylor: No, just whichever one I find.

[22:28] Amy Sherman: Okay. All right. Yeah. I find that with mascara, I have to use two different ones because I have one like that. That's like a lengthening, which is great, but then I need volume. I like it more thick looking. And so I find that I have to use two. One for lengthening and one for fullness. That's just me, though, for the volume.

[22:47] Erica Taylor: Oh, yeah. No, I agree. I did that, too, when I want more. And then another one I really love is the Clinique a new one? Oh, I have very sensitive eyes, and I can't use a lot of mascaras. And I remember when I was younger, I wouldn't be like, my eyes are so sensitive. And I was always like, yes, sure. Okay, now that's me.

[23:09] Amy Sherman: So the clinique. Okay. What is it? Just clinique mascara.

[23:12] Erica Taylor: The new one. That's like this is a brown oh, yeah. By accident. But I dig it, and it just gives really nice volume and doesn't irritate my eyes. They also make an awesome tubing, one that I let my preteens wear because I know it won't run down their face when they're in school.

[23:31] Amy Sherman: What is the difference? I always hear tubing. I don't know the difference. Can you tell us what that means? Tubing.

[23:36] Erica Taylor: Absolutely. So I learned about the tubing mascara when I started working with Trish probably, I don't know, twelve, whatever, years ago. And Trish McEvoy was, like, the OG of the tubing mascara. It's a polymer that wraps the lash like a 360 tube. So instead of really sitting on it, it actually encapsulates the lash.

[23:58] Amy Sherman: Okay.

[23:59] Erica Taylor: Then you can build it up, but it doesn't run, it doesn't smudge. Even if you jump in cold water, it won't come off. But you remove it by holding it to warm water, and it washes off like little tubes. So it's like a waterproof, but better because it actually protects the lash.

[24:17] Amy Sherman: Oh, that's interesting. Does it have to do with the brush?

[24:21] Erica Taylor: Not so much the brush, but the polymer formula. It's a special polymer that wraps the lash.

[24:28] Amy Sherman: Okay. Because I always thought it was like the kind of brush, whether it's like kind of the brush you just showed us.

[24:35] Erica Taylor: Some of them have that, but it's not the brush, it's the formula.

[24:38] Katie Chandler: Will it say tubing mascara on it? I've never seen it. I've never heard of it. I don't know anything about it.

[24:43] Erica Taylor: And that's what it's been a big question that a lot of people don't even know about this. It's been around for years, but usually it will say tubing. But what you do is you just put in just look up tubing mascara, and a bunch will pop up.

[24:54] Amy Sherman: Yeah, you probably have some you don't even realize. I think I've had some and that have come off that way, that they just kind of come off whole. But yeah, I just never know. I always hear people say tubing and bristle, and I'm like, I don't know the difference. So, yeah, that's a good explanation.

[25:09] Erica Taylor: If you go to remove a tubing mascara with makeup remover, it'll get like, gummy.

[25:14] Amy Sherman: Okay. So you really just remove it with water. That'd be good for me because I hate removing mascara. So I did a whole episode on eyes and mascara and fake eyelashes because for a while I was wearing them because I can't stand taking off mascara and putting on mascara. So I had the extensions for a while, which I loved, and then I learned how to do them myself, and so whatever, but I've been taking a break for a while. But do you wear extensions at all, or do you just wear them when you go out and want to look.

[25:46] Erica Taylor: More when I go out, and that goes back to my eyes are so sensitive, right, that I don't even like the glues on my eyes.

[25:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I know.

[25:54] Erica Taylor: I've always really focused on the eyeliner rather than the mascara, so it's like.

[26:02] Katie Chandler: Yeah, your eyeliner, my eyes.

[26:04] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I know. I had been playing with that. And you're wearing eyeliner, aren't you? I always wear a little yeah, I just started doing that. But does it make your eyes look I feel like it makes my eyes look smaller, but maybe that's just me. Does it depend on the incorrectly?

[26:17] Erica Taylor: Absolutely.

[26:18] Amy Sherman: Oh, so I've been doing it. What's the trick for putting on eyeliner?

[26:22] Erica Taylor: So depends on the shape of the eye, and not everyone can cat. My eyes are still puffy from my mascara reaction, but if you see, I have kind of a flat surface, a little hooding here, so I kind of go through the hood, keeping it very fine on the actual lash and a little inner corner so you get elongate. If your liner is too thick across the whole way, it'll close your eye.

[26:46] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[26:47] Erica Taylor: Or just doing outer corner, inner corner, mascara.

[26:51] Amy Sherman: And what about under the eye?

[26:54] Erica Taylor: I'm not really a big advocate, but it does work on some there's exceptions to every rule, but typically, when we start doing stuff under the eye, we start bringing attention under the eye.

[27:05] Katie Chandler: Right. Which is not where we want.

[27:07] Erica Taylor: No, we want I don't want attention on my waist.

[27:10] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[27:10] Erica Taylor: Lift it up.

[27:11] Amy Sherman: Lift it up, baby.

[27:13] Katie Chandler: I used to use black eyeliner, and for whatever reason, I don't know, it just started to look too harsh on me. So I use, like, a darker brown eyeliner. And anytime I do under the eye, which I really never do, it just feels too heavy, like, too dramatic. Like I'm trying too hard.

[27:28] Amy Sherman: That's what I was meaning before. Where when I do it makes my eyes look small.

[27:31] Erica Taylor: When you do it under it especially, it will make the eyes look small.

[27:34] Amy Sherman: Yeah, that's what I found.

[27:35] Erica Taylor: Cages them in.

[27:36] Amy Sherman: Yeah, exactly. And then on the top yeah. If I do it right, it looks good, but I'm not always good at doing it.

[27:41] Katie Chandler: You should try brown.

[27:42] Amy Sherman: I'll try brown. Yeah, I do have a brown. I'll try that.

[27:44] Erica Taylor: They're more forgiving.

[27:45] Amy Sherman: Yeah. I feel like and then I've been seeing this because I feel like Michaela always says this on TikTok. What is this called? The tight line.

[27:54] Erica Taylor: Yeah.

[27:54] Amy Sherman: I've been playing around with that, which I like.

[27:57] Katie Chandler: When you're underneath your eyelash line on.

[27:59] Erica Taylor: The inside was the originator of that. Laura Mercier. I worked for Laura Mercier 20 years ago in Sachs, New York, and that's how I learned the tight line. So it was lining under for the invisible liner who's been around from actual makeup artists. It makes me laugh when people find these new makeup artists are finding all these new things.

[28:19] Katie Chandler: Right.

[28:20] Amy Sherman: You're like, that's been around for a million years. Right? I just learned about it. I was like, oh, let me try that tight lining. Okay. Lipstick.

[28:28] Erica Taylor: Favorite lipsticks? I would say probably the makeup by Mario. They're like lipstick meets balm meets gloss. I love these, but I am not lipstick loyal.

[28:40] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[28:40] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[28:41] Erica Taylor: What about the color?

[28:42] Katie Chandler: What do you have on today? It's gorgeous. What's that?

[28:44] Erica Taylor: This is Huda longwear with so I take a beige, but what I do is I put a pinker gloss over it to give it life so I don't look abracadabra. And then I put the gloss a little on top so it catches the light.

[29:04] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it's beautiful.

[29:06] Erica Taylor: It's so nude that if it runs, nobody will see it.

[29:09] Amy Sherman: Right. So is that the huda one? Is that more of a I'm very progressive.

[29:13] Erica Taylor: Hold on. This is me. This is me.

[29:16] Amy Sherman: Every time I look at a product, I can't see anything.

[29:20] Erica Taylor: Wifey, huda.

[29:22] Katie Chandler: Wifey.

[29:22] Erica Taylor: Wifey longwear.

[29:24] Katie Chandler: Nice.

[29:24] Erica Taylor: And the lawless gloss. Okay. No, this color, whatever that is we'll find it.

[29:32] Amy Sherman: I like the Lawless concealer actually, too. That's a nice one.

[29:36] Erica Taylor: Speaking of Lawless, love that shade ballet because it has that perfect pink. Yeah, I like that, too.

[29:41] Amy Sherman: So is that huda beauty? Is that a gloss or just kind of like a more matted, long, wear matte lip. Okay. So it's kind of like the Kylie one. I just reviewed a Kylie Cosmetics nude that's matte. And then I'll put a gloss over it, and then it's kind of the same.

[29:55] Erica Taylor: Yeah, it looks, like, very dry. Unless you have, like, 19 year old lips or lip and or lips like.

[30:03] Amy Sherman: Katie, because she's got perfect lips.

[30:05] Erica Taylor: Yeah, some people have perfect lips, but typically it gets, like, frothy in the middle. Yeah, that happens to me.

[30:11] Amy Sherman: All that's not a good look.

[30:12] Katie Chandler: It is the worst thing. I'll come out from being with a client, and I look in the mirror, and I see this line on the inside. It's horrible.

[30:19] Amy Sherman: So you need to gloss up.

[30:21] Katie Chandler: It's so gross.

[30:22] Erica Taylor: Okay, looks like we got the rabies.

[30:26] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 125 - Exploring Strip Makeup’s Skin Cleansing Revolution With Co-Founders Riley Egan & Shaun O’Hollaren (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 125.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Speaker A: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your Nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker B: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. You.

Speaker C: Welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And we are here with Sean O'hollerin and Riley Egan, co founders of the recently launched brand Strip, which is a better for you skin cleanser brand. We are very excited to get the 101 on how to effectively clean our face. So a bit about Sean and Riley. Sean is a seasoned expert on the beauty consumer. He co founded the Brow Gal in 2012 and grew the company domestically and scaling to 40 international markets. Following the Brow Gal, sean spearheaded sales and expansion at other successful brands such as Makeup Eraser, Malley's Cosmetics, and Sugar Bear Hair. I know all of those brands. Passionate about the beauty industry and an entrepreneurial spirit at heart, sean's knowledge of the makeup removal space paired with years of successfully bringing brands to the market is invaluable to strip's mission. Riley is a tech savvy entrepreneur with a film industry background. After graduating from UCLA, Riley pursued a career in tech while simultaneously working on passion projects in film and television industry. Very interesting. After multiple successful exits in getting a feature film made, riley transitioned into small business consulting in 2016. Combining his passion for the film industry and extensive background in startups, riley maintains a wealth of knowledge in raising capital and scaling operations and logistics for the business. So really cool backgrounds. Excited to hear more. Before we start though, we always like to start our show to talk about our Nirvana of the week. Something that brought us joy, a smile to the face, big or smile just to set the stage. So Katie, I'll pass it to you. Sure.

Speaker B: Okay, well, thanks for being here, Riley and Sean. We're excited to chat. I think my Nirvana this week, I had a spare like hour earlier, the week after I finished work and I went to the beach by myself. I've literally never done this since. I've lived here near the beach for the last almost two years. And I just went by myself and sat and caught a moment of peace, staring at the water, breathing, taking it all in, letting my thoughts process. And that was a very nice Nirvana. I don't think it was an hour, it's probably like 30 minutes, but either way, it was fantastic. What about you, Amy?

Speaker C: That's awesome. Well, I think this week has been hectic because last week I was on vacation, which was amazing and a Nirvana, but being back, just catching up on all the things has been a little bit busy and crazy. But anyway, this morning when I was making my coffee, I had to refill the beans and I just refilled them and then took a second and smelled them and they smelled like so good, that fresh coffee scent. So I was just like that was my ten little seconds of meditation this morning. So I'll go for that one. What about you? I'll pass it to who am I going to pass it to? Riley.

Speaker D: Absolutely. And thank you both so much for having us on here. So I have a few nirvanas, I'll share them pretty quickly. One was this morning getting to wake up in my own bed again after traveling for work for a week. We've been at a convention in Las Vegas all week and there's just something so special about being home. Another for me was actually at the convention and really having a lot of people come up to me and talk to us about how much they loved the brand was a very cool thing. Because being a really remote work team and a D to C brand, it isn't super often that we get to interact with people in person. So that was just a really lovely experience. And then the other thing was that prior to that convention, I was spending a few days with my parents and my mom was having a bit of a health scare and everything is okay.

Speaker C: Good. Thank God.

Speaker D: That's good. Yeah, elderly parents are health is their primary concern these days.

Speaker C: Yeah, that and congrats on the praise at the conference. That's super exciting. Okay. What about you, Sean?

Speaker E: Yeah, for me, Riley's referencing, we just got back from Cause and profit beauty trade show in Las Vegas and for me it was just seeing so many people from all over the world that I hadn't seen in years, probably since before COVID And just actually getting to give them a big hug know, touch and feel somebody that you work with for so many years. So that was my nirvana this week.

Speaker C: Yeah. That's good. The connection is so important. OK, so let's kick off. I want to know how you all met and is this your first business together?

Speaker D: Absolutely. And yes, it is our first business together. Sean and I have known each other for, I want to say a decade or a little bit more now. So it's been quite a while that we've known each other and that was mutual friends introducing us back when we both worked in film and television. And it was actually a client of Sean's who just thought we'd get along famously and thankfully for both of us, he was right and we've been friends ever since.

Speaker C: I love it.

Speaker E: Yeah, it is our first business. We've been probably discussing it for two or three years before it finally came to fruition.

Speaker C: That's so cool. And tell us about the cleanser category of beauty. It's one we haven't really covered. We've covered it generally, but we haven't covered in detail. So I'd love to kind of get a sense of why you chose this category and what the inspiration behind your brand is.

Speaker E: Yeah, we both have different attachments and stories that brought us together in this category. For me, I was more in color cosmetics and some hair care before I got into business with Makeup Eraser, which was kind of the original reusable makeup wipes, and fell in love with it. Fell in love with the category and just realized that there wasn't a whole lot of innovation or education around this crucial step, being the first step in your skincare routine. And it was always something I wanted to do, was create a brand that only focused on makeup removal and cleansing and tried to be the go to experts and not just another brand that has a single product or two tacked onto a very long range of skincare. So Riley has a different story, but that's how we started discussing and I'm.

Speaker D: Not a makeup user myself, but my history in film and television, I've had my makeup done hundreds or thousands of times, potentially, and I've had my skin really badly damaged by very harsh cleansing products. And I'd always thought that was maybe just a me problem or potentially just the nature of heavier makeups on set and harsher products to remove those. And so when Sean came to me and know, I've had this idea for years, and I'd really love to do something in cleansing and makeup removal, I was like, that can't be a problem for everybody. And he assured me that it was. So I started talking to just every woman I could in my life. And it was really shocking to me that as I spoke to these gals, I'd say maybe one in ten really loved the product they had for this step, and the rest fell somewhere between being kind of ambivalent of like, it does the job, but I don't love it. To actively disliking it, but not knowing what else to do. And on the extreme end of the spectrum, potentially having just abandoned the category to use like a grocery store variety coconut oil. And so as I kind of was like, that is very strange to me what's going on here. I started studying cleansing more and really looking at the science behind how it affects skin. And we can get into this more probably later in the podcast, but the kind of unfortunate truth is, it's certainly better than sleeping in your makeup, but cleansers actually can do some pretty significant harm to your skin. And so as I looked at this, I was like, it seems very unacceptable to me that an entire product category that every makeup user, really, every person should be doing every single day is actively taking away from your skin's health.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting because we've talked to a lot of women on the podcast, and we often ask them what their routine is and everything, and we hear a lot of different responses when it comes to makeup removal. That piece. So what is it about strip that is, what did you guys do? How did you innovate that's?

Speaker D: Okay. I get really excited about this because I kind of geek out on the science behind skincare. And really what this came from was us looking at Cleansing as a whole category and saying, what is it doing that isn't serving users? And how can we make a product that does? And so we really identified three main ways that traditional cleansers aren't as skin friendly as we'd love them to be and at a high level. The first is it removes a ton of moisture from your skin, so it dehydrates your skin. The second is that it disrupts your skin's PH. And this is a really big issue and really has a lot of skincare effects, but it elevates your skin's PH to a really alkaline level, which is very unhealthy. And then the third and this is where the name came from, it strips your skin of a lot of the essential nutrients your skin just needs to be healthy. So we actually have been in product development for three years, and it's been a very unique challenge to figure out how to have the Cleansing efficacy that people demand.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker D: As a side note, something that was very OD to me when I got involved in this category was people seem to be so impressed by a product that just removed their makeup. And I was like, shouldn't that be the absolute bare minimum that this product is doing for you? So, obviously, the Cleansing efficacy is very important to us. And then we had to solve for how do we, in the same jar, in the same step, rehydrate balance your PH and restore those nutrients. And it was a very fun journey, thankfully. And Sean kind of doesn't mention this, but he actually is a chemist. We worked with some really formulators. He oversaw a lot of that product development, and we came out with what I think are really incredible cleansers. And this is a category that people don't really expect skincare benefits from. So we did go have third party clinical testing done. So all of these claims are independently verified. Everything we say about the brand is actually from independent testing.

Speaker C: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. I saw that you have all your clinical results on your website, which is super important. I've been paying a lot of attention to brands that are doing that because it's just like, to your point, you don't really know what you're putting in your face, even if it says tested. Like, the clinical test know the gold star of knowing that the product's safe and a good product. But I'd love to hear a little bit more about the clinical results and the chemist side of it. Sean, that's super cool.

Speaker E: Yeah, it was something I actually never thought I would graduate with a degree in biology and chemistry but once I got into beauty, it was something that became applicable. So I haven't done product development with every single one of my brands, but with strip, just building this from the ground up, it was very important. And I know what I don't know. We did bring in some other great formulators as well and really studied the market. What are other brands doing, what are consumers really comfortable using and using on a daily basis? So that's kind of how we backed into it. But as Riley said, we wanted to create products that had never really been seen before and really solved a lot of the issues looking at even makeup Eraser did back in the day. I really love to use just water to remove your makeup rather than pre soaked wipes that sit in chemicals. That was something really important to us as well as the environmental approach, wanted all of our wipes not to sit in landfills for years on end and not break down. What we did with the clinicals was really tried to break down each of our products to look at how well they hydrated the skin, any antiaging benefits, obviously how much makeup they removed. And then we also wanted to compare them to traditional cleansers that you could find at local drugstores or premium beauty stores that were popular and really show the point of difference in what we created. So it was phenomenal. Riley, you might have off the top of your head some of the actual numbers and stats about how much more it removed your makeup and hydrated you. I'm running on little sleep, so I.

Speaker D: Don'T I do have so the one that I love to start with and I'd like to start I actually thought it was a mistake when the lab sent this back to us. The whipped coconut makeup remover that we have compared to your drugstore variety Neutrogena wipe leaves your skin with 500% more moisture in it.

Speaker B: Oh, my God.

Speaker D: This illustrates point of how traditional cleansers negatively impact your skin. And we know these drugstore wipes are kind of like the most egregious offender and everyone knows that they are really bad for your face and they're terrible for the environment. They're cheap, they're convenient, and they're fast. So unfortunately, people still use them. But whereas a product like that can remove almost 65% of the moisture from your skin, r two products are clinically proven to instantly increase hydration by 75% and 73%. That's the Cabiar jelly is 75% and the whipped coconut is 73%.

Speaker B: Wow, that's very impressive.

Speaker C: If you think about it, when you cleanse your face, then at least at night, right? Or in the morning. But when you cleanse your face, then you put back on a hyaluronic acid or something to then hydrate your face. And I have very dry skin, so I'm doing that all the time. So I got to figure out what I'm doing, but I have to try your products, and then maybe I don't need those things.

Speaker E: A lot of these close off your pores when you're using a micellar water or a chemical soaked wipe. It really shuts that down. So your skincare that you're using after is not as effective.

Speaker B: Yeah, right.

Speaker C: It doesn't give it the thing in again.

Speaker B: Right as we're talking, I'm thinking about the cleansers that I use, and I've never committed to a cleanser. I think I have three different cleansers in my shower by my sink, because I'm literally just at best, like you said earlier, I need something to take off my makeup and not make my skin worse. So it should be more than that.

Speaker D: That's what you rewind. A moment you asked how strip came about. It was really saying, how do we make a really integral product that actually is first concerned with the health and wellness of the people that are using the product. And so everything we talked about all of these ways that traditional cleansers damage your skin. Essentially every cleanser is the same, and people really choose them based on, like, do I prefer the feel of a micellar water, a balm, an oil, a wipe? But they're all doing the same kind of damage to people's skin. And it's really crazy when you think about it, how much of your beauty routine is actually undoing the damage you just did with pulling out that moisture, disrupting your PH, and stripping your skin of those nutrients.

Speaker C: So true.

Speaker D: I'm sure you're all familiar with, because we all are that dry, tight, irritated, postcleans skin. That's your skin's way of screaming, something's wrong. Please help me. And that desire, like, I need to reach for my toner, I need to reach for my moisturizer the second I get my makeup off so I can start. And this was something that Sean really saw as a great opportunity for people, is to change the way we look at cleansing. It's not this thing that we need to do before we start our skincare. It's not, Let me get my makeup off so I can start my skincare. Your skincare starts the moment you begin cleansing. And this is because you're either, like Sean said, really setting yourself up for success with the rest of your routine, or you're giving the rest of your routine a lot of extra work to do.

Speaker C: Yeah, I was just going to say it sounds like it could shorten your routine if you're doing it right. So on that point, give us the breakdown from, like, an am and A-P-M in terms of cleansing, because I hear different things.

Speaker D: Nighttime routine is generally more important because you have been potentially wearing makeup all day and your skin has been accumulating different impurities, dirt, oil, grime, different environmental factors throughout the day that don't have as much of a chance to impact your skin while you're asleep. But the real thing that's going on here and this is a lot of that PH issue we talked about earlier is cleansing twice a day can actually be pretty harmful to your skin. So your skin's natural PH, or the healthy PH I should say, is about 4.5. This is pretty acidic. Base is seven. And most cleansers, your general soap can have a PH as high as nine or ten. So this really raises your PH. And what this does is it actually causes your skin's acid mantle to break down. This is the primary component of your skin barrier, which is what helps keep all that moisture in it's what helps your skin to regulate itself and keep itself healthy, to bring in the nutrients it needs to stop those environmental factors from getting in and negatively impacting your skin. And when you've disrupted your PH like this, it can actually take eight to 10 hours for your skin to repair itself on its own. So if you're cleansing morning and night with a product that is disrupting your PH, your skin essentially never has a chance to recover. And you're going through life with your skin's primary, your first defense not working for you. So it can really cause big issues. And there's other ways around this, right? This isn't a given. So there's products that balance PH. There's certain cleansers that balance PH, but not everyone's aware of that. So not everyone's taking it into account.

Speaker E: And oftentimes a double cleanse is only needed because the first product you're using isn't working. Holistically. So we do like to say you can use a single topical or one of our topicals on their own, but taking off that first layer of makeup with a reusable wipe with just water, especially that heavy eye makeup that's a little harder to get off, and then going in with a topical cleanser is a great way to do it. And then I still just cleanse generally in the morning as well as I think, a lot of us.

Speaker B: So tell us the different products that you have and why one would choose. Absolutely.

Speaker D: I actually have a few jars with me right here, I can show you. I'll start with this one that's in my hand. And this is our caviar jelly makeup remover. Caviar is just a name, by the way. Our entire brand is completely vegan, cruelty free, clean by EU standards. But we have these cool little bubbles, which is part of the technology. And it kind of looks a little bit, maybe a bit hard to see here, but looks like Caviar, which I can get into.

Speaker C: I haven't seen this online, by the way.

Speaker D: Both balance PH and then the real difference is in what skincare issue that is of concern to you. And what's really great about the Caviar specifically is that it's about replenishing the lipids in your skin. So this addresses all the visible signs of aging, from fine lines to wrinkles skin elasticity, skin texture, skin evenness. And we have some really awesome actives in there hyaluronic acid, there's collagen peptides. There's vitamin C. There's retinoic acid, which is a form of retinol. There's a ton of antioxidants in there. So if you're concerned with either preventing signs of aging or minimizing signs of aging, that caviar jelly is an awesome product for you. Whipped coconut, again, rehydrates balances PH. But this is really focused on long term skin health and general skin wellness. So this is about that skin barrier that we talked about earlier. And a lot of the actives are focused on the fatty acids and the healthy fats that primarily compromise the acid mantle and the skin barrier. And then a lot of the micronutrients that your skin, again, needs to keep that functioning well and keep that balanced. So there's things like mango seed butter, shea butter, ginseng root, which stimulates a ton of circulation to bring those micronutrients back into the skin. And again, tons of antioxidants in there. Coconut oil, which hydrates the skin. And something very cool about this product, specifically coconut oil. Generally, it's a great product, but it really clogs pores, which obviously is an issue. And then you basically need to cleanse again to open your pores back up. And one of the kind of miracle things about this is that we've figured out how to have all of those benefits from coconut oil, and it be a non clogging product.

Speaker E: Oh, nice. And a common misperception. People will say skincare ingredients in a cleanser, aren't you just washing it off? How does that actually work? And if you have the right product, the right ingredients to actually remove your makeup, open up your pores, and cleansing correctly for 60 seconds or more, they really do work. It's not just a marketing gimmick that you see out there of collagen based cleanser.

Speaker D: People very rightly. So should be asking that how does the cleanser not cancel out the skincare benefits and wash them right out? And the answer is, that's something we spent three years developing. So I can't tell you how it works. But we did that clinical testing so we could say, look, this really is happening. It really does work.

Speaker B: The caviar looks like it would be very soothing. It looks like it's like a nice gel. Is it kind of like a gel? Is that the feeling of it? And does it have exfoliation to it or do those little it does not. Okay, yeah, it looks like it would be so soothing. This is kind of just a random question, but do you have to splash your face with water first?

Speaker D: You can go through the entire cleansing step without water. For me, I prefer both with water. So I'll take the product, I'll put it on my skin, work it into the skin a little bit, especially with that caviar. You want to give those little bubbles time to dissolve into your skin. That's where all the skin care is. And then I'll dampen it. I think dampening it for me gets a nice little lather going. I think the efficacy has a bit improved and it just feels nice. And then wipe and rinse and you're done.

Speaker B: Not having to use water, though, is cool sometimes.

Speaker C: You're I know I tend to use, to your point, the brands you formerly worked at, the Makeup Eraser, I have those. And sometimes I'll do cleaning and then I'll use that to just take it off with a little bit of water instead of splashing my face.

Speaker D: And there are a handful of people that have found their own type of double cleanse with these. And primarily it's that they use the whipped coconut to remove makeup and then they do the second part of that double cleanse with the caviar jelly.

Speaker B: I'm curious, how many men do you think are cleansing their face? Because I don't think my husband does. But he will then, because he has crows, right?

Speaker E: Yeah, there's a lot, but definitely not properly. I mean, at least men's skincare category has certainly gotten bigger, but I still recommend all my male friends is use a skincare or use a cleanser that you typically wouldn't associate as a men's cleanser. But there has been brands like Jack Black, obviously, over the years, and Anthony that have come out with some good ones. But yeah, I think a lot of guys are still using just your typical soap in the.

Speaker C: Mean. My routine at night is so long. My husband's always like, what are you know? But I think he literally splashes his face or does nothing unless he's showering.

Speaker B: Strip is targeted to women, but it's unisex you're using it yourself.

Speaker D: Riley quite a few of the husbands of women that have bought in the products have reached out to us and say that they steal them from their wives, which is always pretty funny to hear, but so know, I think a lot of the gals out there understand the importance of cleansing and already see it as an integral step in their routine. So it kind of is a better fit for that market. And like Sean said, men's skincare is certainly growing, but a lot of men still don't want to take the time, don't see the importance. So there's, I think, a different process there with it starts with education and it starts with helping people understand why they'd want to do this and what the benefit they're going to receive from it is.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: What about teens? A lot of teens use your products.

Speaker E: Oh, sorry, what was that?

Speaker C: Sorry, I was just going to ask if your products are good for teens. I have two teens.

Speaker E: They definitely are. I mean, what we've seen is there's just a lot of complacency around this step and it's whatever is easiest to grab at your local store, drugstore, beauty store. It really is. I mean, we see teenagers, I mean, 13 up to gals in their 60s using the product. And something that I noticed too, was that a lot of especially gals that have skincare issues, especially struggling with acne, when they would go into even a dermatologist and try to look at how to clear that up, it was never a question that was asked was, well, what type of cleanser are you using? And a lot of times when you do change that step out, especially when you're going through those, your hormones are starting to change in your teens oftentimes that can really make the difference, and you might not have to get on Accutane or another.

Speaker D: There's a really good reason for that.

Speaker E: Major drug to clear up those issues.

Speaker D: Which, again, goes back to that PH. And our products certainly do not solve hormonal acne. However, if you have acne prone skin, again, your skin's natural PH is 4.5, which is acidic, the main bacteria that cause acne and that acne thrives on and lives on. It loves an alkaline PH. So if your skin's PH is constantly alkaline, the bacteria that primarily causes acne is thriving on your skin. So for a lot of those teens out there struggling with potentially non hormonal acne issues, the right cleanser and really keeping in mind balancing that PH is actually a very helpful step.

Speaker C: Yeah, I have two teenage boys, and so I'm sure if they just their acne isn't terrible, but I'm sure if they just wash their face better, their skin would clear up. They just need to take the time. But I can just tell them this will take them a minute and they don't need anything else. So, hey, that's good. Okay, so you mentioned it before, men not taking care of themselves as much as women do in terms of cleansing skin and stuff. So just in general, how do you feel about being men in this beauty business, this women dominated beauty business, which is just quite the opposite of most other industries. So definitely more of an anomaly. I'd love to get your thoughts on that.

Speaker E: Yeah, it's really interesting. You see, obviously from the manufacturing side of beauty, you do see a lot of men, but on the product development side, brand owners and obviously creating a product that is targeted towards women, it's really interesting, but we really try everything. I mean, my bathroom is filled with makeup. Anytime somebody comes over, are you sure you're not married? Or if somebody else is living here. But I try everything before I use it. I have so many female friends in the industry and out that we really test everything with. And to me, though, it really comes down to being passionate about it, creating a great product that you can stand behind and put your integrity into. And there's nothing more exciting than creating something that gals or people use every day that lives in their bathroom and that they can come back and buy that really makes them feel better. Look. Better. It's certainly interesting.

Speaker D: It's actually very helpful in two interesting ways. And the first is that as kind of an outsider to the beauty world, I felt like I was willing to ask the dumb questions that no one else seemed to be asking. And primarily that was why does it seem like so many women have just accepted that every day they need to use a product that is actively detracting from their skin's health? That just seemed crazy to me, but it seemed like there was a lot of complacency there and no one was really questioning it. And so asking that question was a big part of how this brand got started and why we developed products the way we did. And then the second part is I came in assuming that people would probably question my intentions. What is this guy doing in beauty? Are these two guys just trying to cash in on women and take advantage of women? And what it caused us to do is, I think, really care about the integrity of the brand and the integrity of the product and go as far as we possibly could in every single facet of the brand from the cleansing efficacy to the skincare, to the sustainability, to the products being clean, to the point where these products sean and I try and be as in the background as possible as founders. We're not a founder forward brand because we think the products should and can speak for themselves and that as people use them, they will feel like really viscerally feel instantly, but also over time how different of a product this is and the integrity that we built this with.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that your passion for it definitely comes through and it's very impressive. Everything that you've done, the testing and finding, the efficacy, it sounds like they're both great products. I really want to get my hands on them. So you have to tell us where we can buy them. Where are you selling them, by the way? Are they online?

Speaker E: Yeah, we're selling them. So on our website stripmakeup.com on Amazon we are with Urban Outfitters going into Nordstrom soon as available there too and growing every yeah, we're a newer brand and want to keep the goal is to round out the line with a lot more products as well. So we can really offer every consumer a different product that suits them, suits their skin, suits their profile and just the feel of what they like out of a cleanser or makeup remover.

Speaker C: Yeah, I was going to ask you what products are coming down the pipeline or you can't say yet.

Speaker E: There's some really fun ones we're doing a lot of we think on the go too is a big opportunity for anyone that travels a lot because oftentimes your routine can get disrupted. We've got more products both for in and out of shower, oil based, gel based, water based, so a lot more in the next several months.

Speaker B: And are you going to be offering more than just face? Are we talking potentially body washes coming?

Speaker D: We don't have body coming at the moment. Really, our focus is staying, again, just on the face and in the cleansing, and we don't have any plans to expand outside of cleansing anytime soon. And again, this is because while we do want to cater to every kind of removal routine preference, right now, a lot of people out there select their cleanser just based on product weight, product texture, product feel, because they all do the same thing. And our long term goal is to really redefine the way people look at this category. And they say, this is a crucial step in my skincare routine. What element of my skin or what skin concern do I want to be addressing? And so they all have their own skincare benefits. And it's like, do I care about the visible signs of aging? Do I care about my skin barrier? Do I have acne prone skin? So a lot of the products we're developing are for very interesting and differentiated skincare issues.

Speaker B: Yeah. That's brilliant. Nice. Good for you. Well, congratulations on all the success. It's exciting.

Speaker C: So I have a question before we wrap. So as best friends and business partners, which we can relate to, we're sister in laws and best friends. What is the best and worst parts of working together? And be honest.

Speaker E: Riley.

Speaker D: I love working with Sean and I.

Speaker C: Let me listen to this.

Speaker D: Sometimes it can be difficult because there is a different component to the relationship. And frankly, with Sean and I, I think that's been a huge plus for us because we have really great communication. Neither of us take anything personally. And because we have a very close connection, it's very easy to call each other and say, what in the world were you thinking with that? Or what's going on? And, hey, I need you here. And I think that the way we're able to communicate is super helpful for us as a brand. I think the hardest thing and I don't know this is so much about us being friends is that we're completely remote, so we don't live in the same city. And building a brand with somebody and not being able to be next to them every day while you're doing it has a ton of its own very unique challenges.

Speaker B: Yes, we relate to that also.

Speaker C: Yes, we can. Absolutely. Where are you all based?

Speaker E: I'm in Los Angeles and Riley's in Texas. And then our team spread out all over the yeah, too far. I hate to be that person, but I honestly can't say there's much, many bad things about working with Riley. I said years ago I would never work with a friend again. And Riley is the only one I could ever see myself working with. I'm so happy. We both have such different ways of thinking we take on different roles and positions in the company and really just balance each other. Well, I would say, yeah, being remote is a little tougher, but Riley, you make it easy. You're a great partner. That's nice.

Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I was going to say, it seems like you guys have different skill sets, but together it works perfectly. It's like you complement each other, which is great. So congrats on all your success and where can everybody find you?

Speaker E: Yeah. On our website. Stripmakeup.com. Amazon Urban Outfitters.

Speaker C: Oh, right, you already said Instagram. I don't know if you said Instagram.

Speaker E: Yeah, on Instagram, we're at Strip Makeup TikTok as well, and also YouTube Strip Makeup, so we constantly also try to put out a lot of education just around cleansing, certainly around our products. And our team's always there to answer any questions, too, about a specific issue or what product is right or wrong for something nice.

Speaker C: Well, thank you again. It was so nice to meet you all. And, yeah, we look forward to seeing.

Speaker B: Congrats on all the success.

Speaker E: Thank you both so much.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes, please subscribe and.

Speaker C: Leave us a review.

Speaker A: Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please.

Speaker C: Share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh.

Speaker A: New episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 124 - Sonic Serenity: Exploring Sound Healing With Intuitive Sound Alchemist Monica Baddar (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 124 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Unknown Speaker 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Unknown Speaker 0:27

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are sitting down with Monica podar. She is very special to me. We had a great experience together this summer that we're gonna dive into. She's helped me get back into my modeling career and a really great way. And I can't wait to kind of chat a little bit about that because I'm super grateful for Monica. But today we're also going to discuss Monica being an intuitive sound Alchemist. She is an Egyptian American intuitive sound Alchemist and photographer. She is dedicated to help empower the collective, specifically the feminine as both an artist and a healer. And I'm really excited to kind of like dig in and, and better understand what all of that means and how you're helping heal people, especially women. So welcome to the show. Monica.

Unknown Speaker 1:16

Thank you for having me. I'm so grateful to be here. So before we get into it, let's do our nirvana of the week. I'm going to kick it to Amy to give us what was your nirvana. So you came?

Unknown Speaker 1:27

Yeah, so I just got back from family vacation at the beach. And it was just a great week, the week back has actually been hectic, but the week prior was great. And it was just a time. Just what with my husband and my two boys and we had some other families that were there. So it's just like a chill no agenda kind of week at the beach every day. Like just you know, dinners out at night. Lots of fun stuff with the kids. It was just like, really relaxing and just like a nice way to reconnect after kind of like the summer and the kids were away camp and stuff. So it was really nice. And I'm so grateful that I was able to do that sounds great. You Katie um my nirvana is kind of coming off of something that's like totally the opposite of nirvana. I felt lousy all week and my nirvana is this morning. You know, with autoimmune stuff with my stuff, Amy? I'm always going through like, Wait, isn't this? Is it this? Should I do this? Should I do that to feel better, and I try all the things. And then this morning, it clicked. And I realized it was my vitamin D. And I've been like heavily dosing on vitamin D all day, and I'm starting to feel so much better. So that doesn't matter, Monique? Because I feel so much better than I did all week. What about you, Monica? Awesome. Yeah, this is actually kind of a hard question. I feel like I truly try to live every moment in Nirvana and always just be grateful to be alive and here. But specifically, I will say probably this weekend, because after this, I will be going to Joshua Tree and doing nothing reading books, meditating, just relaxing, calm out of the cities. So I'm super excited. That sounds.

Unknown Speaker 3:02

That sounds fun. I know. I've heard such amazing things about Joshua Tree. It's very cool.

Unknown Speaker 3:06

All right. Well, let's get into it. Tell us Monica. Explain. I mean, we we we have an understanding of sound healing. Right, Amy? So the intuitive to ative sound outcome as tapas better understand what that means?

Unknown Speaker 3:22

Sure. So intuitive sound Alchemist is kind of a term I guess I just I'm sure it was not the first person to come up with it. But it's just my way of saying that I facilitate sound ceremonies on meditation, sound baths, if you've heard of any of those things, it's all talking about the same thing. And how did you how did you get into it? Because Monica has, like I should I call it your day job. Like your main profession is your photographer. You're brilliant photographer. You do the most beautiful photography, she shoots. You ship models, you shoot celebrities. I mean, you have ad campaigns, like you run the whole gamut with your photography, right?

Unknown Speaker 3:57

So how, how have you found yourself into the sound bath healing world?

Unknown Speaker 4:03

Yeah, so I guess my entry point into this whole world of spirituality or the journey within, I would say started when I was 23, or 24. I'm 34. Now so it's been about 10 years. I love the quote. I'm not sure who said it first, but your mess is your message. So I found myself in a really really difficult place at 24 I had gone through I suppose you could say my dark night of the soul. Really horrible breakup. That led me left me pretty empty, I would say and just confused and lost. And I was living in Los Angeles at the time. And I remember I was walking up La Brea and I found this place called the den meditation. And they had just opened and they were having like a month like trial. Come try it out. And I wasn't sure what it was. But I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna go because I had need something to help and I

Unknown Speaker 5:00

I became obsessed. I was in there twice a day, every day, they had all kinds of classes such as breathwork, yoga, Nidra, Kundalini Yoga, just all kinds of classes. And I took all of them and I saw was the first Kundalini yoga meditation that blew my mind. We were laying, or we were in class, and a lot of it was heavy breathing, kind of like you feel like you're hyperventilating, almost. And then at the very end, you lie in Shavasana. And I remember the room being closed, there were no windows in the room, and I'm lying down with my eyes closed. And then all of a sudden, I started seeing like fireworks shooting, and we're like, wow, in my vision, and I was like, what's going on? This is wild. So after the class, I spoke to the instructor, and I explained to her what I saw. And she was like, that's amazing. That means you're clearing things. And so I just became fascinated with the, I guess, subtle energies and how all of that works, and everything is interconnected.

Unknown Speaker 5:56

Fast forward to 2019, I went to Peru, I did my first Ayahuasca ceremony. And that was the first time I really experienced what it's like to be so open through psychedelics and have mu, energy sound moved through you. And that just blew my mind. And I was like, I need to share this with everybody. Like, I'm obsessed. So since then, it's just grown from there. That's very cool. How is the iOS experience? Yeah, okay. I've seen like, you know, films and stuff on that. But like, it seems very interesting. Like how it was your first time doing it, obviously. So was it like a few days? Like, tell us about that a little bit? Yeah. So I went, the first time before Peru actually was upstate New York. And I had did a three day weekend, Friday through Sunday ceremony every night. And I mean, it's such a

Unknown Speaker 6:54

unique experience. It's so different for every single person, and every single time will, you will have a completely different experience. But the best way that I can explain it is that my very first experience, I was almost fighting with myself, because everything in my body was like you're back. You've been here before. Welcome back. And I'm like, No, I haven't. What is this? What is going on? You know? And then it's like, yes, you have no, I haven't what's, but the whole thing felt so familiar, and very nurturing and loving to me. And

Unknown Speaker 7:27

yeah, it's, it was interesting, because my ceremonies are always about like, the collective or the world at large and like my place within it, and like why I chose to come here on this planet.

Unknown Speaker 7:40

Like, sometimes it is personal stuff, but I always invite

Unknown Speaker 7:45

I guess you could say like any sort of triggers, or anything that sort of makes you stop abruptly, and make maybe makes you not feel good. I love those times, because I feel like that's moments for expansion. So I invite them in because I want to take a deeper look like, Why is this here? What is this blockage? Why am I resisting? How can we move past this? And the iOS experience? Also, like really lends itself to that, right? Like anything, anything like sort of trauma or experience, it's hard to dive into? It opens the world up so that you're able to process things, right?

Unknown Speaker 8:20

Absolutely. And it does it in such an intelligent way of like, the universe just works in the craziest ways of things that you wouldn't think the way that it'll come up. But it's always, I would say palatable for because it's you, at the end of the day, it's always going to come as an experience in a way that you can relate to it, or that will best be suited to you to understand yourself deeper. So when did if that meant Yeah, no, it totally does. So when did you start doing these healing ceremonies? And who are you working with? Or who have you worked with?

Unknown Speaker 8:53

Yeah, so I would say pretty shortly, I would say, maybe 2021, I started helping out with two of my friends, male friends that do ceremonies, and they kind of wanted to have a female energy. So that was really awesome to kind of explore and be open and just kind of played around. And then I started doing one on ones with people. And everything is word of mouth. And so I do it two ways. One way is just with sound only. And then the other way is with psychedelics, if you so choose, and they're both very different, but yeah, very healing. But just kind of depends on what you're looking for, or what you're looking to get out of.

Unknown Speaker 9:35

With the sound. Is it always like a sound bath? Or are there other ways to do the ceremony with a different kind of sound?

Unknown Speaker 9:43

Yeah, so it's actually a mix, I would say of instruments that I have. And sometimes I will also play like mantra music or binaural beats like high frequency music for me to hertz up. It sort of depends. So the intuitive part of the sound out

Unknown Speaker 10:00

Coming comes from, I have a layout, but it's kind of open ended because I really zoned into the person that I'm with. And it's really important for me to connect with them and to kind of help them. I'm gonna walk you to the door, you're gonna walk through the door, but I will lead you there. Mm hmm. So and so that lends you to decide what kind of sound to use in the ceremony is it was kind of intuitively what you're feeling the person needs?

Unknown Speaker 10:27

Absolutely. How long are the ceremonies? How long do they usually last?

Unknown Speaker 10:31

So without the use of any psychedelics, it's about an hour to an hour and a half the actual sound part and then I love to have like an integration talk afterwards. If it's not right after then a few days later, just to kind of see like, what was your process? What did you go through, I wrote during the ceremony, I really tried to stay out and give the person the space, all I'm doing is creating a space for you to feel comfortable and safe to explore whatever you want. And I'm kind of just on the side there for you, bringing you whatever you need to make you feel safe. And that's it. And then like later, we can dive deeper if you want to share it. And if you don't, that's also fine. And then with psychedelics, it's going to be like a three and a half to four hour process, I serve a tea, mushroom tea. Using a tea I feel I've kind of experimented a little bit with like different modes of ingesting. And I think the tea is the best because it takes about 10 minutes to hit you and it's a very smooth, you don't even really feel it just all of a sudden it's here. And it's great. And it kind of starts quickly and ends quickly. So if you're eating mushrooms, it goes through your digestive tract, and it can take 45 minutes to an hour. So I prefer the tea. I also depending on again, like the intuitive part, I serve the cow in the middle of my ceremony as well, which is the natural heart opener. So kind of just brings all the good, yummy feelings and gets you in a nice loving state. Yeah, you were telling me about the cacao? Let's talk about that a little bit. Because that's something that I can go, anyone can just go to Whole Foods and pick up. And so tell us about cacao and why you like I know you just touched on it, but I've never heard about that. Regarding cacao.

Unknown Speaker 12:16

Yeah, so cacao is chocolate. And it grows primarily in the Amazon. And it's not the chocolate that you would see out. Because that's usually like has sugar and all this other stuff, binders that you don't really need. But essentially it is just raw cacao, which is actually bitter in taste. And I like to sweeten it with honey or agave and maybe put a little bit of cinnamon. And you basically sit it snippet in like a ceremonial way. And you're just kind of like taking sips and just feeling how it's going through your body. Cacao is super good for you. It has tons of magnesium. It relaxes you, it's a heart opener. So I feel like it's another way to really connect deeply with yourself. Nice. That's an easy one that we can do it don't have to go out and get the psychedelics.

Unknown Speaker 13:07

Yeah, I was I was gonna I was gonna also ask you for those that are interested in like sound healing or selling sound healing ceremonies, and they're not in LA to visit you like what could they do at home? Are there apps? Are there things? Like what would you recommend if someone wants to do something like this, especially our listeners who I think are probably newer to this type of

Unknown Speaker 13:29

practice, but I've done a song about a few times, and I've really enjoyed it. It's just super relaxing and like gets you in that like Zen state.

Unknown Speaker 13:38

So yeah, if there's anything you can recommend people could do at home.

Unknown Speaker 13:42

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, YouTube is a great free resource. And all you have to do is type in you can type in 432 hertz.

Unknown Speaker 13:52

So 963 would be like the crown chakra. So basically, I have seven bowls that are tuned to the seven chakras. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with chocolate, but they all also have a hertz frequency attached to them. So you can also just go into a meditation listening to the sounds just observing your thoughts, seeing what comes up. I feel like a lot of this work is kind of in the subconscious mind. Anyway, so if we can just quiet your prefrontal cortex, your monkey mind, reptilian brain, all these things, the voice that keeps chatting forever, but you're really like behind that voice. We want to kind of make that voice feel comfortable enough to be quiet so that the real yo can come through. Hertz music is a great way. But yeah, there's a ton of like meditation apps and body movement is a great way as well. Like I always like to stretch every day. And I can almost feel where I'm tight. And then I'm like focusing on that area and it changes every day. Depending on what we're doing. Do you do meditation and some sort of like sound? Bath healing for yourself? Daily? Yeah, I would say the sound

Unknown Speaker 15:00

Because I all my instruments are here in LA. So I am definitely playing those every single evening. But in terms of like meditation, I do a lot. I'm pretty, I'm not really rigid or structured with it. I like to do like walking meditations. So I will be walking down the street. And I will simply observe like, there's a car, there's a cat, there's a garbage man, no judgment or thought about it. I'm just listing what I see. And that's it. And the second I have a sort of like, thought or eye color, the experience, I'm like, wait, and then I pull myself back, because I love them. And I think that practice is just being aware that your mind is just like, non stop, you know? Yeah, yeah, that's very grounding, just being where you are, and pointing out what you see without it taking you anywhere else. So it's very, that's such a great. That's a cool practice. Yeah. So you work. You do a lot of your ceremonies. I know you work with two men, but you also do a lot of work with women, which is amazing. How, how's that experience working with women every day?

Unknown Speaker 16:02

Yeah, I mean, I guess that started with photography, I would say. So I have been shooting for 14 years now. And so what got me into photography basically, is I feel like as a kid growing up in an Egyptian household, both my parents are born and raised in Egypt, first generation American. Although I was born in America, my household was still very much Egypt, very rigid, very patriarchal. I definitely felt like I didn't have a voice, I was super, super shy growing up. I found photography pretty early on, I would say in middle school, because I just became obsessed with like, the fantasy of like, I can, like, I was looking into fashion magazines. And I was, like, put into this world of, you know, beauty. And I could just, I feel like I wanted to create images like that to kind of and when I look through the viewfinder, I essentially feel like I'm meditating. I've entered a portal and like, whatever's in this box is the only thing that exists, and how can I make the most interesting image within that.

Unknown Speaker 17:05

So when I started working with talent, specifically female models, I started to notice pretty quickly, that take having a photograph taken is a very vulnerable thing. And like, so I need to do my part to make them feel comfortable. So it's not about me. So I need to get over myself quickly, and be able to be there for them to like, speak to them. And kind of before any shoot, I generally like to sit and like just get to know the person and talk to them. Because I can sort of feel their energy. And so that I can, I can see what's the best way to photograph them. Like how can I make them feel the best look the best, all of that. So it kinda was helped, helping me in a sense, gain my confidence and ability to be able to speak. And then it's just it's so funny. Like, I feel people and I maybe you can also speak to this, since you're in the industry as well, that it's just seemed so glamorous and beautiful. But a lot of the times like everybody's human, everybody also has their own problems and insecurities. And so I almost, I like to say I'm a photographer slash therapist.

Unknown Speaker 18:12

No, I can, because I can totally attest to everything you just said about like, making the other person comfortable that I've so I found Monica, because my agency gave me a list of like, you know, 15 photographers that they suggest their their models to use. And I looked at every single person's work and Monica's work was, you could just see how relaxed. The models in the photos were, they were just at such ease. And there was a vulnerability exactly like what you just said, you, you just bring something out of you make you make them comfortable. I haven't done a photo shoot and over 10 years. So the first person that I shoot with, it was like very important that I was comfortable. And you were I mean, you're amazing. Her work is so stunningly beautiful. And we had so much fun together, and you made me so comfortable. You're really really good at what you do. And you're right. I mean, industry seems glamorous, and seems like everyone's so confident everybody really has, you know, their shit together. And they're so excited to be in front of a camera. And that's not necessarily the case. Like it's not like I hate being in front of a camera. And I'm sure there's a lot of models that that deal. And working with the right person makes all the difference in the world. But it's really, it's really beautiful. What you do. We'll have to we'll have to share some of your work when this episode airs because it's gorgeous. Yeah. And your picture because I saw them and they're stunning. They're absolutely, like blown away. But yeah, I can imagine that's a really hard thing to do to make people comfortable. And then I mean, I can't even imagine being being in front of the camera like Katie does.

Unknown Speaker 19:58

But I could say that

Unknown Speaker 20:00

I'm sure most people are so uncomfortable and just insecure because you're right. It's a very vulnerable space. Everyone's looking at you. You're like, it's just so that's, that's incredible that you have that skill, because I think it's it's true what Katie said, I'm sure. Many photographers are not in tune with the other person's energy. And they're just like doing their job and kind of checking the box. And it's really important

Unknown Speaker 20:22

to have that connection. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 20:24

You do. create that connection instantly. So it's your you're so fun to work with, you know, just circling back really quickly. And has anyone ever said, so the ceremonies that you perform as well, like, it's, it seems a bit and tell me if I'm wrong, because I've very well could be like, you're also a shaman. Is it? Is it not similar to what shamans do? Yeah, I mean, I guess technically speaking, a shaman would be someone that is able to work with energy and sort of go in and out of, I guess, different dimensional realities, or see the subtle realms. I sort of, I mean, I try, I don't have a problem with the term, but I do see in Western culture, it's been thrown around. And a lot of people are shamans. And I know that this is something that you're sort of born into, it comes from a lineage, you know, from Africa, the Amazon, but mostly like, indigenous tribes. So I, that's why I like to stick with a tater because also, like an important thing is like, so shaman is sort of a hierarchical term term. So if you're going to see a shaman or a healer, it's almost like you're putting yourself beneath them. And I'm really all about empowering the person, right, because if you have a problem, and you will not open up, no therapist or healer, or whomever can help you, you're the one that opens the door. So it's really important for people to sit in their own seat and know that they are powerful and sovereign beings. And you can do whatever you want, you have freewill. And you have a mind and you have a heart, most importantly, and your heart is the gateway. And that's your path. And if you follow that, you will never be led in the wrong direction. So I really try to make that a very important point that you are the healer, essentially.

Unknown Speaker 22:12

Not anyone else. Yeah, that's a great education on the word shaman, because you're right people do. So use it, throw it around, and I've never understood like the true meaning of what it is. And I'm sure a lot of people don't the egos a tricky thing. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 22:28

Tell us before we get into our rap session. Well, I know that you're still, you know, doing photography and everything. But how much are you trying to segue into doing more of the ceremonies? And how can our listeners find you if they want to work with you?

Unknown Speaker 22:43

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm currently in between New York and LA right now. And wherever else in the world that I, you know, I'm able to go to, and pretty much since January of this year have kind of been more of a nomadic flow state. It's been, I would say I am in New York and LA, every month and a half, probably, like just do this back and forth. So two months. But it really depends on when I'm called and when I'm needed. And then I fly out there and I make it work so I can be available anywhere. So between New York, LA Miami, I traveled to a lot as well. So I can pretty much be anywhere and I do one on one sessions. I do group sessions. I have people that also help with me, if it's a bigger group, so I'm pretty easy, flexible, it can all happen. And I don't have like a page yet for the sound healing specifically, but Monica podar, my name at Gmail or Monica dora.com. That's all my photography work, but it's all me. It will all take you to the same place. And I saw your Instagram page too. It's beautiful. Yeah. Instagram works as well.

Unknown Speaker 23:52

Yeah, work is great. Yeah. Although my Instagram is all like photography. I feel like my stories are always tidbits of little spiritual nuggets of wisdom that I find and like to share. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Love it. That's great. Well, I'm excited to get into a rap session because your skin is gorgeous. So I know that there's some good like wellness tips we can learn from you. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Okay, so again, since January, I've been traveling a lot and I'm always on planes. And I am since I'm Egyptian I am a desert person. I'm chronically dry all the time. Coconut water. I know it's simple, but really, really has saved because I Arizona, it's so dry. I can feel like my hair gets brittle my skin gets dry. And I've been chugging wanted to like the big jars of coconut water every day. That by itself has like has done wonders water is not enough because the electrolytes and I feel like it gives you a nice plumpness in the fat from the coconut as well as like very good for your skin brain.

Unknown Speaker 24:58

So I guess

Unknown Speaker 25:00

Good Yeah, we haven't heard that like that one. Nice. Yeah, I love alright the next one we call it your five minute flow you just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber has pink do their five minutes away What are you going to do to get out the door and in that Uber on time?

Unknown Speaker 25:14

Yeah, so I love this because I feel like I'm pretty minimalist. I want to be quick and fast and run out the door. So I will get out of shower, make sure my face is clean. So during the day, I like to use resveratrol, which is a poly phenol antioxidant, and it's very good for your skin. So I apply it topically and then moisturizer. And then at night with SPF and then at night. I will do like a retinol. And then I will do like a thicker kind of moisture cream. So I'm all about like moisture. Yep. Yeah, it's like, never

Unknown Speaker 25:49

feel nice. Okay. And last one is how do you maintain your daily nirvana? I mean, we already kind of touched on it a little bit, but maybe there's more.

Unknown Speaker 25:59

I feel like just being always trying to be in tune with myself like I'm very I think the mind body. heart connection is very important. So I'm always scanning my body and trying to see like where do I feel tightness or tenseness? Do I feel good. Because if your body is not working properly, nothing else will work. Because if you're sick, your reality will be a sick reality. Everything that you look at will be I like to think that the world is neutral. Things are always happening, but it's sort of neutral. And your perception or perspective is what is what color's your reality. So although we are all living on Earth, we can have so many different realities, because we're thinking different. So I'm always trying like, and I'm also very aware of I spiritual bypass is a thing, but I, you know, when people just are always like love and light and all this stuff, we all have shadow, I'm very aware of mine. But that being said, I know there is darkness in the world. I choose to stay in the light and always try to find ways to be grateful and happy for things because it's just not going to serve you if you're always focusing on negative stuff. So I'm always just trying to find the beauty in every situation. Monica, we usually usually not always we've been kind of bad about it. Right, Amy? We need to talk I now have better sorry. My mantra has not been with every episode lately, guys. But Monica is gonna

Unknown Speaker 27:23

help us so graciously, a mantra for it to wrap today's episode. So what is it, Monica?

Unknown Speaker 27:31

Yeah, okay. So it's quite simple. It is three words. The phrase is in Sanskrit and it is that chit ananda. Start meaning existence. Chit meaning consciousness and under meaning bliss. So we exist. We are here. We are conscious that we are here. And then once we are conscious that we are here, we can go to Bliss. So it's kind of like the circle of life. I suppose you can say you're a baby and then you're aware that you have things and you can see yourself in the mirror. You're like, that's me. And then you can go out have a great experience and be blissful in your life. That's beautiful. Now that's a good one to keep repeating I want to say Sat Chit Ananda. Is that right? Okay, perfect. Doesn't have to just energy me. I mean, like the best so peaceful and that I feel like so much better after talking to you. I was feeling like tired and kind of like blocked today. And you just hurt me. I feel I can feel your energy through the amazing another phone. Yeah. Good to have Yeah, we'll have to come visit you next time. We're in. So are you based in LA? I forgot what you said. I'm back and forth. So I'm on I'm here now. And then I think in a week and a half. I'll be back in New York, but I'm just kind of bouncing around. So yeah, we can definitely well, yeah, we should meet up when I'm back. I've booked my flights. Alright. Well, thanks for being with us, Monica. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye

Episode 123 - ProductJunkies - September Edition - When You Want That Glass Skin - Wrinkle Reducers, New SPF And Finishing Touches (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 123.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters family. It's Amy and Katie, and we are here. We're back with the product junkies to start the back to school season. Not that these are back to school products, but we have been doing a lot of replays this summer because we've both been running around and we've done a few episodes that we've launched some new ones, but we've also been doing a lot of replays, so it's good to be back. It's good to see you, Katie. I feel like we haven't caught up. I know. So we need a major catch up. But I know you were just in Alaska.

Katie Chandler: Yes, alaska was interesting.

Amy Sherman: I asked Katie how it was, and she was like, it was interesting. I'm like, okay, I'm going to have to hear about that. How was your cruise experience?

Katie Chandler: The cruise experience was, I think, the interesting piece. I'm definitely not a cruiser. I think it's a fantastic thing for those that enjoy it. And my father has a handicap, so it's so good for him because it's all accessible and easy in there. But it is not my thing.

Amy Sherman: It would not be my thing.

Katie Chandler: Lesson learned.

Amy Sherman: Did you get nauseous?

Katie Chandler: I actually didn't have any problems with seasickness, but my other sister in law, my brother's wife, she was like it was tough for her. And then Adam had it a little had legitimately. There was days where the boat was rocking. You could visibly see it and feel it, and you'd be like, horrible. Yeah, you would trip almost, like, fall over if you weren't careful.

Amy Sherman: It was kind of crazy. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah.

Katie Chandler: And then Alaska, that's not even like the whole family passed around, like a stomach virus and the whole was but.

Amy Sherman: How was actual Alaska?

Katie Chandler: Actual Alaska was beautiful. I mean, really, really gorgeous. Like, the water there is so different than the water here. It's such, like a deep marine blue color. I don't even know how to describe it. It just looks so different.

Amy Sherman: Wow.

Katie Chandler: And we saw whales every single day. And we took a train, like, really high up in the mountains, up through a passageway that the original settlers went from Alaska into Canada. Yeah, we just did a lot of cool experiences. Little towns are very quaint and sweet, and it's a cool place. It was not on my bucket list, so I would have never been there otherwise. I have no reason to ever go otherwise, so it's really cool. I've been to Alaska. My kids had an amazing time.

Amy Sherman: The girls loved it.

Katie Chandler: They loved it. They had a great time. And you, you've been everywhere, too. You were just at the everywhere. How was the week at the beach with the family?

Amy Sherman: The beach was good. It was actually, like Stu and I were saying. It was like one of our best weeks. We felt like just because it was chill know, we go with a couple of families and they're great, and we just kind of, like, have our system. We go to the beach every day, but we don't go till later in the day, so it's not like a rush to get out in the morning. And we're all just kind of like hanging out. And the kids have bikes so they can just ride them around the neighborhood and go get breakfast or do whatever. And then, yeah, we are just kind of on the beach the second half of the day every day and hanging out, and the kids are in the water. And then we'd bust out our high noons later in the day and just relax. And then we'd go to some good dinners and go to bed and sometimes early, sometimes late. It was just nice, actually. It was really funny. One of my favorite parts of our trip, which is but like, have you been watching Summer I Turn pretty no.

Katie Chandler: I haven't gotten into it yet.

Amy Sherman: Oh, it's so good. So I watched season one last year and then season two. Was it last year? I guess it was last year. It's on Amazon Prime and season two this year. I mean, every teenager knows this show. I'm like such a teenager. But, like, love these kind of shows. As you know, it's a little cheesy, but it's like you get into it because it's just such a good story. It's a book, so you can kind of understand why it was made into a picture or into a series. So one of the nights we just stayed in and had pizza or whatever, went over to Courtney's house, and she's got two teenage girls who were watching it. And a lot of the family friends were all these girls. They're all well, yeah, it was the finale came out that night. So one of Courtney's daughters was like, oh, do you want to watch it? Because I was talking to them about it because I'd like to get all the teens insights on the show about this and that and what they think about it. So we all sat around and watched the show, and it was so fun watching it with them because hearing their reactions and all the music, a lot of it is Taylor Swift. So it was just so fun to watch a show with teenagers who the show is pretty much made for. And it was just like a fun memory. I loved it. It sounds we're all, like, in our sweats.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, it sounds like such a chill vacation where you were just at ease and relaxed and you're not running anywhere, right?

Amy Sherman: Yeah, exactly.

Katie Chandler: Earlier, were you in a house with multiple families or did you guys have.

Amy Sherman: Your no, we were just like in a kind of a condo.

Katie Chandler: Yeah. And then other people were there in their other you would connect. Yeah. That's so nice.

Amy Sherman: Yeah. And then we would just meet up, which is nice. You kind of have your own space and whatever. So that was good. And then yeah, earlier in the summer was in Utah Resort, which is, again, like, we had an agenda because there were things we wanted to do, but it was very relaxing, very remote, very almost like a retreat, in a way. And we did boating on Lake Powell, and we did hiking and we went into the canyons and it was just stunning. It was like so my vibe, like the whole desert and the heat and the dry air and all the hiking, and I just loved it. We were there for a couple of days and it was just so rejuvenating.

Katie Chandler: And that was just you and Stu? No, kids.

Amy Sherman: Stu and I, because the kids were.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, and all the easier to go and do all of those things when it's just the two of you. That's what it's all about when you're on a trip, just the two of you.

Amy Sherman: I don't think it was probably too chill for them. I don't know. I mean, maybe they would have liked it, but probably not. And yeah, we did like, spa stuff and just chilled. I mean, we went for our 20th anniversary.

Katie Chandler: So nice.

Amy Sherman: It was special.

Katie Chandler: And the sickest celebrity spotting ever. Tell our listeners.

Amy Sherman: Yes, we saw Angelina Jolie, so that was really fun. She was sitting next to us at dinner with her whole family, all very well behaved. They were, like, having such a good time. Nice family. No one was bothering them because it's not that kind of place. It's really small and remote, and everyone's cool about that. So that was amazing. She was stunning in person and not as tall as I thought she was. Probably like maybe my height. A little bit taller.

Katie Chandler: Really?

Amy Sherman: Five, six. I always thought she was super tall. I know she looks tall, but she's not. She's just, like, really thin, has that stature. But yeah, that was really cool. And yeah, it's just a great place just to disconnect. Be out in the mountains, be out in that environment. Really quiet. Very quiet there. Very still, and just yeah, really grounding.

Katie Chandler: Sounds great.

Amy Sherman: It was incredible. It was just so beautiful.

Katie Chandler: The summer flew by.

Amy Sherman: But anyway, back to product cookies. We have a couple of things, just some fun things that we've been wanting to review because we haven't done a show. I don't know. I think we did 1 July, maybe, but we might have missed August. So we are back and here to talk about some products we're loving right now. So I will start with you, Katie.

Katie Chandler: Okay, this first one. All right, so this is actually kind of funny because you're going to have to tell me if either of us have already talked about some of these, because it could be possible. But this first one is from our fave Erica Taylor. Right?

Amy Sherman: Yeah. Found was obviously coming soon. Coming soon.

Katie Chandler: I follow her on TikTok and Insta. And she suggested this makeup forever. HD Skin Twist and Light.

Amy Sherman: Oh, I've seen her talk about that. No, you haven't reviewed this. I must hear it's.

Katie Chandler: Really good. So the coolest thing about it, first.

Amy Sherman: Of all wait, repeat the name so our listeners can hear what's it called.

Katie Chandler: It's a makeup forever. HD skin twist and light. 24 Hours luminous Finishing Powder. And it is in this container that the bottom twists, and you just tap it when you twist it open, and it puts out the perfect little amount of powder that you need at the bottom there. And then you dip your brush in, and your brush isn't, like, drenched with too much powder. It's like the perfect amount. And the interesting thing is the colors. It's pink powder, blue powder, and kind of like a pearlescent color powder. But that's the whole thing. These pink powders are the finishing powders. Right. So it's not just like your usual one that matches your concealer. It's totally different because it's all about reflecting light and everything. And this one exactly, they have four different shades. This is the light shade, 1.0 light, and it's really beautiful. It finishes.

Amy Sherman: What does blue powder do? I've never heard of that. I didn't realize there was I don't know exactly.

Katie Chandler: I think it's all about radiance light reflecting the pink blurs, and I think the blue maybe reflects the light. So when I put it on, can.

Amy Sherman: You mix them together?

Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's the whole point. When you shake it, all three different colors go at the bottom.

Amy Sherman: They all come next. Yeah. Cool.

Katie Chandler: And it really is like I also do my contouring with it, but I really feel like when the light hits my face, it hits all the places that you want. Like, it hits the high cheekbones and the center of the forehead and the bridge of the nose and the cupid's bow on the lips, because I'm finishing with this. When I don't finish with it, I.

Amy Sherman: Don'T feel that as the last thing you put on.

Katie Chandler: It's the last thing I put on before my setting spray. Yeah, exactly.

Amy Sherman: Okay.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's really good.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, it's funny. I, on the recommendation of Erica, also got the Westminutelier Pink powder, but it's pressed it's like that little gold, and she raves about that one, too, but it's a little bit different because it's not loose. I always forget about it, but I need to use that more. But yeah, same idea. It just kind of like, blurs everything out, but I'm shy with it. I always get nervous to use too much. I don't know why, but that's good to know about that. Powder because I've seen her talk about that many times and it looks amazing when she does it.

Katie Chandler: I'm obsessed with it. Absolutely.

Amy Sherman: You just need, like a little bit.

Katie Chandler: The littlest bit. This is going to last me a very long time. My only complaint is that it's like clunky. It's not great for travel, but that's it.

Amy Sherman: I wonder if they have a smaller version or something.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, it would be nice. I mean, this is what their website says. A three in one luminous finishing powder that instantly unifies, corrects and revives your complexion while delivering 24 hours radiance and blurring. And I tell you, that's exactly what it does. It also is nice because it kind of like it helps blend my makeup, too, at the end.

Amy Sherman: What brush do you use with it? Because that's the other thing I use.

Katie Chandler: That I big, fat, loose, like, not tightly compact brush.

Amy Sherman: I don't have a brush like that. Yeah, I need to invest in that.

Katie Chandler: I have those triangle, like the triangle makeup powder pads. I know what you're talking about.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, I guess it's a powder powder pad. So I have that. But I didn't use it that much because I feel like I don't know how to use that.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, I feel like those things make it too cakey. It puts it on too heavy, like a big loose brush. You just need a light dusting.

Amy Sherman: A light dust. Yes. Okay, good to know. Well, maybe you'll have to do a video and show our listeners how you use it.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, I will. What do you have?

Amy Sherman: Well, these kind of well, let's see. We're talking about skin. So I'll start with this. Because this is an everyday staple, I wanted to try a new SPF. So this is an SPF 50 plus. It's called Beauty of I don't even know how to pronounce it. Beauty of Joseph Josene. It's like a K beauty brand. Have you seen this?

Katie Chandler: Okay, kind of, yeah. Not really.

Amy Sherman: It's called relief. Sun, rice and probiotics. SPF 50. I've seen it a lot reviewed or just like, here and there. I think you can get on Amazon. But I actually bought it because Natasha B, who we've had on the show Beauty Junkie Monkey, had recommended I believe she recommended this brand, or she recommended a website for other products and they happen to have this. And I just wasn't sure if it was legitimate on Amazon because it's like a K beauty brands and you just don't know if you're getting the right thing. But anyway, needless to say, it's a really nice SPF. It's very thin. It does not feel like SPF. It feels like a moisturizer, like a light moisturizer. No smell at all.

Katie Chandler: Oh, nice.

Amy Sherman: And it's really nice. It gives, like, a little bit of a glow. And so I've been using this almost like, as a moisturizer instead of putting on moisturizer and then SPF, or like I know you could do like, a moisturizer with SPF. I've just almost been using this as a moisturizer and doing it as my last step, and I'll mix it with, like, glow drops or something like that, but it's just like a really nice, thin, inexpensive SPF. It's $18 on their website, and you can get a two pack for 30. And this really lasts a long time. So I've been just using this lately. Like I was just saying, when I was at the beach, I just used this in the morning and at night, it's just so easy, and it's nice. And like I said, thin and radiant. And it's a really nice K beauty product. So that's that I also bought. I'm not reviewing it because I'm still testing. It an eye cream that has a little bit of retinol in it. So I'm testing that out too, from this brand, Beauty of Josine. It's J-O-S-E-O-N. We'll put it in the show notes.

Katie Chandler: I'm excited to hear about that eye cream. Is it something that you only use at night because it is retinol?

Amy Sherman: Yeah.

Katie Chandler: Okay.

Amy Sherman: Yeah.

Katie Chandler: Nice.

Amy Sherman: An eye cream so far. I like it very light.

Katie Chandler: All right, well, speaking of Natasha beauty junkie monkey, I always say it backwards. Beauty monkey junkie. I said it right the first time. I think she was the one that has taught me about matrixal in Argyline or Argaline.

Amy Sherman: Yep.

Katie Chandler: So I picked it up from the Ordinary because I actually saw I was in the city, and they have a store, which I didn't even know, and it's like, you can't beat the prices for the Ordinary. And so this is a two for one. I'll review both of them quickly. The matrixal I use at night and.

Amy Sherman: The I didn't even know the Ordinary had matrixal.

Katie Chandler: Yes, they do. It's matrixal 10% plus hyaluronic acid. And then the argaline. Argoline solution 10%, you use during the day or, like, anytime someone's going to see you. This is literally what the woman said to me. She's like, use this before putting on makeup or going out and being out. She's like, it's instant. The whole idea of the Ardea line is that it's supposed to instantly freeze your face and you're not supposed to see the fine lines and wrinkles as much. And then the matrixal you can also use during the day. But I found it's just a little too heavy under my makeup. I don't like it, so I use it at night. I will say this, my botox has stretched. I haven't had it done since the end of April, and normally by this point, I would be running to get more, and I'm feeling like it's okay. I don't need to hustle in. And these are the two things that I've been doing differently, and I started using them, I want to say three months. I used it all summer. My skin is definitely, like, plumper, it's firmer, and I don't see the fine lines and wrinkles as much as I was before. I really don't.

Amy Sherman: Really? Okay, so you use the matrixal you said at night and use the do you use the Arger line at night or morning?

Katie Chandler: No, it's funny, I was using it at night and the woman at the store said, you're using it wrong. She said you literally just want to use it when you're going to be seen. She's like, when you're going out.

Amy Sherman: So.

Katie Chandler: It'S like an instant acting is the idea.

Amy Sherman: Okay. Because I have it and I use it at night, and I probably am doing it wrong. I thought it was something more like a matrixal where the more you use it, your skin kind of changes from it. Right. So this is just more like a treatment.

Katie Chandler: It's more like a treatment where they're claiming it literally kind of freezes the area.

Amy Sherman: That's what Natasha says. She says she calls it like botox in a bottle.

Katie Chandler: Exactly. And I really feel like, I mean, I need to put a disclaimer out. I think it's only fair I have a filter on right now, so I don't look like I have any fine lines or wrinkles, but I actually do. So this stuff works. I like it. And it's like the prices are phenomenal.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, that's ridiculous because I bought the topology ones.

Katie Chandler: But so cheap.

Amy Sherman: You put it just around your eyes or do you put it everywhere?

Katie Chandler: I put it everywhere. I put both of them everywhere. And I really try to focus on my I always drop the adjourne, like, here on the wrinkle foreheads and the eleven s and around the eyes and around the smile lines.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, that's what I do for the Adira line. And the matrixal I put everywhere. But that's good to know. I'm going to try it now in the morning because I've been just putting it on at night, and that probably does it not doing it. And the matrixal I put on at night, but I'm going to try the adrialine in the morning. Okay, good to know, good to know, good to know. Okay, I'll continue on the skincare route. So I'm sure you've seen this everywhere, and it's something I've been wanting to try forever, but now I can review it because I've been using it for a while. Snail mucin. You've seen this everywhere, I'm sure, right?

Katie Chandler: Oh, snail mucin. Wait, that's so funny. Okay, I'll tell you why in a second, but yes, I've been hearing that all about it. Tell me.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, so it's the COSRX advanced Snail 96 Mucin Power essence, the one that you see, like, on TikTok and everywhere. And I'd been wanting to try it, and I finally tried it and I love it. It is so hydrating. So I have such dry skin. Right? So this is just so much better than a hyaluronic, because a hyaluronic, it's good, but it's not like as serumy. You just kind of put it on, and it's helpful. This is just, like, super hydrating. I use it morning and night. It makes my skin glow, look smooth. I put it on at night, like, after retinol or whatever, just to seal it in. I'll put it on in the morning before my moisturizer. I've been having really good success with it. I mean, my skin hasn't like, a lot of people I've seen reviewing it online has said their skin has changed from it. I don't know if my skin's changed yet, but it's definitely looking better. But I love it. Like, you almost don't need anything else. It's thick, and you kind of just like you put in your hands and kind of rub it and then just tap it on your face, and it just gives a really nice hydration I put on my neck too.

Katie Chandler: Love your skin. Does look like hydrated right now. You know that glass skin situation that people are do you feel like you get that with it?

Amy Sherman: Oh, definitely.

Katie Chandler: Nice.

Amy Sherman: Definitely. It definitely gives you that glass skin. It definitely gives you that glow. And I don't know what it's doing, like, how deep it's going into the skin, but I have heard people saying that people that have used it for a really long time, it has changed their skin and made it a lot smoother. More hydrated, less wrinkles, et cetera. So it's just a really good add on to anything else that you're using.

Katie Chandler: How much is it? I'm going to order it through our show notes, which is what all of our listeners should be doing, too.

Amy Sherman: About $20, depending on where you get it. And I just noticed they have a travel size, if you want to just order it and try it, but I've been really happy with it. I think it's probably better for people with dry skin, but I think this will also be really nice going into the fall and winter. So I'm really excited about it, and I'm glad I finally tried it, along with everybody else who's talking about it online. It's kind of a joke, but it actually does work and is really nice. It's just like a thick serum. You just put it on and you're good to go. I want to hear what you think about it, though, when you try it.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, I'm excited to try it. All right, so my next one, which is my last one, is this is a first. I have a product junkies retraction statement coming. I have talked about a product, and I didn't like it before. And, yeah, I started using it because I needed something like it. Didn't have it didn't have time to shop for it. So I said, Let me give it another shot, and I retract everything I say that was negative. It is a good product, and this product is the Milani Make It Last original natural finish setting spray. All right, now, I think the reason why I didn't like it before was because I didn't have something like my makeup Forever Setting Powder. And also my skin was a little bit oilier at the time, and now my skin is less greasy and I feel like I know how to use it better because if you spray it on and after I spray this on. I then go in with my matte powder puff finishing powder, and I hit the high spots that you don't want to be shiny this first or you do the powder first? No. So I do my makeup forever. Finishing powder. Then I do my then you do setting spray. Then I get out my compact powder that is like normal powder that's like the color of your concealer.

Amy Sherman: Oh, like a matte powder. Yeah.

Katie Chandler: And I go in and I just take away the shine spots where I don't want the shine.

Amy Sherman: Okay.

Katie Chandler: The reason why I am really retracting what I'm saying is because since I've gone back to work, I've been using this every single day, and my makeup is and also, by the way, I'm a fit model. I take clothes on and off all day that wipes my makeup every time I pull a shirt off. I try not to, but it happens a lot. And my makeup is still on and solid by the end of my full day of fittings.

Amy Sherman: So it's good. Yeah, that's good to know. Yeah, it's just so funny with a lot of these products, and it's good that you retry them because a lot of it is user error. I feel like there was something I was trying recently, and then I saw online you're not supposed to use it with vitamin C. Like it doesn't work or something. Maybe it was I don't know if it was matrixal or something, but I was like, oh, who knew? So good to know. I'll have to try it. I have the morphe setting spray, which I like. I don't use setting spray that much, but good to know for when I do want to use.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, I love it because I really like my contour to stay, and that helps.

Amy Sherman: Yeah, you're good at the contour. Okay, so over the summer, if you're following our Instagram page, I put this in my stories. But I was in New York and I saw a vending machine for Kylie Cosmetics.

Katie Chandler: Nice.

Amy Sherman: I don't know if you remember seeing that. And I walked by and I was like, OOH, I love those beauty vending machines. And I only usually see the one for benefit, but Kylie Cosmetics had one. I've never tried Kylie Cosmetics, not really in the demo. But I saw the vending machine, I'm like, oh, that looks so fun. So anyway, she has these lip kits, which is like a lip liner and a gloss. And you know how the Kardashians and Kylie, they're known for that beautiful matte nude lip? So I bought a lip kit, and it's called bear. Okay. So it's a matte lip kit. Okay. So here's the gloss. It's like a matte gloss. And here's the liner. It is so pretty. So I'm going to put it on, but I can't really do it without a mirror. But just to give you a sense. So you do the liner. I think it's how much was this? Let me tell you, it was $35 for both, like, for the kit and then here's, I really like the gloss.

Katie Chandler: Oh, that's pretty.

Amy Sherman: Isn't that pretty?

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Amy Sherman: I like it because all the glosses I have are glossy. And this is a nice mat.

Katie Chandler: Yeah. And it's interesting that it's, like, a little bit lighter than the liner. So it's a kit. It came together. That's cool.

Amy Sherman: Which is good. No guesswork.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, exactly.

Amy Sherman: I totally butchered this.

Katie Chandler: But it's a good nude, though.

Amy Sherman: It's a really pretty nude. It was like I wore it all summer, like when I traveled. I just brought this, and I have one gloss that I always use from Tom Ford. And sometimes if I wanted a little bit more of a shine, I would just put that over it, but it just enhanced it. But this is such a nice daytime. Nighttime. And it's called the Matte Lip Kit. And this one's in called it says Matte Lip kit Bear. But it explains it as a light pink nude. But it's so funny when you go on the website or you look at this vending machine, there's like a million nudes, so you really have to find the right one for you. So I just took a guess. I'm sure there's other ones that may even look better, but this one's really nice. Just simple nude, beautiful. And I just like that it comes with the pencil, so you don't have to guess. And you just have a set, and it's inexpensive. And there are a bazillion colors. And I like the matte as a nice change because I feel like sometimes nude looks better when it's matte. Just makes your lips look a little nicer. So anyway, that was my two for one last recommendation.

Katie Chandler: Nice.

Amy Sherman: Back to school. This is good for just, like, running out of a house, keeping in your car, keeping it in your bag. It's a good one. So big fan. Kylie Cosmetics.

Katie Chandler: It's so smart that she put those vending machines in all the airports and know it's.

Amy Sherman: I'm surprised I haven't seen it.

Katie Chandler: I've been I've seen it a few times over the last couple of years. I want to say, like, maybe the last two years, I've seen it a couple of times. Really smart. Nice. I'm going to check.

Amy Sherman: And now that I'm on the website and I'm looking, there's so many pretty colors that I want to try. And when you feel it on your lips, it feels like nothing. It's like really light, really lightweight.

Katie Chandler: Nice.

Amy Sherman: Yeah. So that is our product junkies for September. We're excited to be. Back into the swing and hope you all had great summers and let us know what products you want us to review next. We're loving these right now and hope back to school and everyone's summers is great. Bye. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness, so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 118 - How To Balance Your Hormones? Find Out From Holistic Hormone Expert Marisa Faye - Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 118.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker 2 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Speaker 2 0:27

you had mentioned earlier? Well, I guess I had mentioned earlier my cholesterol and but you had mentioned that cholesterol and hormones are related. And I would love to talk about that a little bit.

Speaker 3 0:37

Yeah, so a lot of times, your body will, first of all cholesterol, the vast majority of it your body makes, it's another one of those things very critical. You need it for healthy cell walls, you would die without it. So cholesterol is so important, your body makes most of it very little of it, you actually get from food. So the whole idea of donate eggs, because of the cholesterol police, anybody who says that to ask them where they learned that and if they've studied 1000s of hours of nutrition, because they probably haven't. So this is really important to know, what you're eating impacts your cholesterol if what you're eating is very inflammatory, right. So if you're eating a lot of those highly palatable foods, a lot of super processed foods right, then that's important. If you're exposed to a lot of toxic chemicals, you know, a lot of my clients who, for example, work in like a hair salon. That's a lot of chemical exposure they have right, so that could cause dysfunction there. But in general, if you have a relatively healthy diet, and frankly, even if you're just a woman who is aging, because this can be part of the process, it's very likely cholesterol is going to go up. And in fact, it's protective to do so in women especially. But the threshold for high cholesterol and functional medicine is much much higher than I think it is in western medicine and Western medicine, you can go back and look that guideline has changed over time based on them wanting to prescribe not based on any new data, not based on any high quality studies, nothing like that it's completely because of a desire to want to sell a medication. And not only that, but cholesterol is absolutely critical as we age and protective as we age because it is at the top of the steroid hormone pathway. So what I mean by that is you have to have enough cholesterol in order to make a whole bunch of other hormones. So any hormone you think of as like a female hormone, you need it for that any hormone you think of as a stress hormone, you need it for that. And there are plenty of other hormones too, that really need that presence and thrive from that. So if you don't make enough cholesterol, all these other things downstream are going to be lower potentially, or the body's going to do funky things like it's going to shovel it down one pathway but not the other. So it's going to make potentially more testosterone and not enough cortisol right or something like that. It's going to start to do wonky things. So when a woman has higher cholesterol, we have to first look downstream and see, well, what's going on with all these other hormones, is there potentially an issue there and perhaps a feedback loop where the body is saying, we're not making enough thyroid, like Knock Knock, knock, we need more. So let's make more cholesterol, right. So that can often be something I see actually, in women as they age, where thyroid is looking like it's being a little bit suppressed. I see cholesterol sometimes goes up. And that's I think part of what's happening. But cholesterol really gets demonized and villainized. And, in particular, when we look at women, the vast majority of women, based on the studies we've seen and what we know statins do, do not benefit from taking statins, the vast majority. And that is not medical advice, you have to make anybody listening, you have to make the choice that is right for your body. But I would just really encourage you to truly go on PubMed, look at the literature or talk to somebody like me who's looked at that literature have the conversations. So you can make a more informed choice to know if you're somebody who truly can benefit. Or if you're somebody who has a downstream hormone issue or a liver issue, because that's a big part of it because of where cholesterol is made and how it's used. And those are the things that need to be addressed. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 4:05

Do you have somebody because I have a lot.

Amy 4:08

Yeah, you go, and then I have something I want to circle back on from earlier. Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 2 4:12

So what you're saying is that if you do have like a hormonal imbalance that could affect your cholesterol and cause it to go higher than it needs to be. And so instead of a doctor checking your hormones, they just hand you a statin, it's not necessarily going to fix the problem. Yes.

Speaker 3 4:28

Correct. Okay. And not only is it not going to fix the problem, there are a lot of potentially negative side effects if you stay on it long.

Speaker 2 4:34

Yes, that sounds like me, like everything I've just realized. So isn't that funny? And I just was reading about a study and this is just for the listener regarding statins. It was a study that showed like they're very effective for people that are already deep into heart disease like versus preventative. The preventative this study showed that if you took a statin preventatively it added four days to your life for days. That's it like, it's insane. Like, what's, what's the point? So anyway, I digress. I just wanted to get that out there. Amy, what were you? Okay?

Speaker 3 5:09

There's cool studies too, that actually look at women and show it actually takes time off your life potential. So, and this is the whole thing where women and I mean, female, right? female sex physiology, very different than male, when it comes to this.

Amy 5:25

Interesting. Okay, so we could go on and like, we'll probably need you back for part two, because we have so many other things. But can we just talk to our listeners and give them some simple tips for hormonal balance that they can do right away? Like, obviously, there's the button all the other stuff we talked about, but like, what some simple things? Yes.

Speaker 3 5:42

Okay. So first and foremost, protein, protein, and more protein. So protein is your friend and kind of how I've touched on a few times in small ways, but muscle right, muscle is the most beneficial thing for you to nourish, and try to grow within your body. So high quality protein, and at least having three really high quality meals every day with at least 30 grams of animal based protein. And yes, I am that specific that it's animal based. Part of that is because

Amy 6:14

so not a shake with protein, we mean, yes, meat chicken, yes,

Speaker 3 6:18

this, you know, you could do a shape that has a protein that's like I use like a grass fed beef isolate. But something that is a complete protein. By the way, collagen is not a complete protein, so it doesn't count towards that goal. But you could get a really high quality, truly animal derived protein powder, and that could be okay for somebody. But it may not be as satisfying and satiating, but at least 30 grams of an animal based protein breakfast, lunch and dinner. Okay, really important, it's going to help with insulin regulation that's going to help with hormone production is going to help with your appetite it's going to help with so so many things, sleep potentially, like just so many things. So really important that you're getting enough protein in throughout the day. So that's key, first and foremost. Second of all, you need to be eating within an hour of waking up. This whole idea of depriving yourself of food, and it's good. If you wake up and you're not hungry is a lie. A healthy body wakes up and is hungry within about an hour of waking that is a healthy metabolic response. And anytime we're talking about metabolic response, we're talking about healthy hormones. So that's really key. We want to be eating that first high protein meal within an hour of waking up, which means coffee, caffeine, even your matcha happens after breakfast not before

Speaker 2 7:36

is I've been hearing that more often. And that's because of like cortisol spikes and things like that. Is that part of that as well?

Speaker 3 7:42

It can it can be but it's also because it can dis regulate blood sugar. And it also can be used as a tool for appetite suppressant, right? So a lot of women will use it so that they don't have to eat. And when you don't feel your body when it really needs it after it's done a lot of hard work restoring overnight, right? When you deny it, that it's not a good thing.

Amy 8:05

Yeah, I also heard that just drinking and I'm so guilty of it. But drinking coffee on an empty stomach just isn't good for your gut, right acids and things like that

Speaker 3 8:15

very acidic, right? And a lot of women as they age start to do more and more with reflux. And most instances of reflux are actually low stomach acid, not high stomach acid. And so putting coffee into an environment like that is rough. That is rough. Yeah.

Amy 8:32

Yeah, I'm very guilty of this. I'm very guilty of not eating breakfast, because I am truly not hungry in the morning because I'm not a morning person. But I have to really force myself, which was actually it's funny when I was talking about my vacation on vacation. I had breakfast every morning. I mean, I don't know if I felt any different. But I was eating like a proper breakfast every morning, which is probably better. But I just Yeah, I got to work on that. Yeah, well, better

Speaker 3 8:57

body to to do that. So if you're somebody who's coming from like, where you are, Amy, you know, you don't have to jump right to that 30 grams of protein for breakfast, you could do something smaller, right. So a lot of clients. And I also teach this to the women in my course, like you could do a small protein rich snack. So you could do, you know, three quarters of a cup of Greek yogurt with some berries within an hour of waking, right. And the ultimate goal is that over time through doing that you start teaching your body because our body is really smart and it wants to be on that rhythm. It actually wants to be on a rhythm with the sun if we're getting very technical. So when you are waking up, you're exposing yourself to sunlight, your body is going to start to know Oh, okay, I'm going to be hungry here soon and I'm gonna get fuel soon. I'm gonna get nutrients soon. And I like that. And so you're gonna start to actually prime that appetite and make that a part of your regular life.

Amy 9:48

Yeah, I think for me, too. I get lazy and I don't want to make anything so like what's your point? Like? I have hard boiled eggs all the time. So like I could just eat that. I was just trying to find things that I can grab because I don't necessarily feel like spending the time to make anything. But um, yeah, that's a very good thing to remember. And I'm actually not I'm thinking about it. I was eating like, a nice proper breakfast lunch dinner. And I didn't find myself like hungry or craving any like snacks in between, because I was probably very satiated. So it's almost like I gotta force myself to eat even though I don't feel hungry.

Speaker 3 10:22

Yeah, definitely two more tips that are really good. One is yes, close your vegetables, cook them, stop it. Like, we're not robbing it like. So one of the most amazing things you can do is start to look at food and think about like, is this nourishing for my body. And when you think of the word nourishing, I want you to think of warming since warming my body, because as we age, and this is borrowed from Chinese medicine, but as we age our body cools off. But we also see that actually, when we monitor our body temperature, we can sometimes see that happen over time. But if you're having slower digestion, right, if you're having hormone dysfunction, and you're a woman, you're likely having things slow down, right, not get faster. So when we have things slowing down, we want to keep it warm. We want to keep it supple, we want to keep it moving, right? You're not going to do that by throwing cold things in your body all day long. So really, truly, first of all, ditch the freakin fiber powders like that is not most people's problem for the record. And a cup to two cups of cooked vegetables, lunch and dinner. could change your world.

Speaker 2 11:32

Interesting. I love cooked vegetables. But yeah, it's but you have to like, you got to do it. You got to take the time to cook them and do it

Amy 11:39

right. Or you could do like a like a chicken broth. What's it called? Like a chicken broth? Because that has protein right. And it's warming bone broth.

Unknown Speaker 11:48

You couldn't you know, I mean bone broth. Sorry.

Speaker 3 11:51

To have frozen vegetables, like no shame in my game. Get the frozen vegetables like those are pre cooked. Throw me to pan they'll heat up in two minutes. You're done. Yeah,

Amy 11:59

totally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, what's the next one's a really good reminder. Okay,

Speaker 3 12:04

the next one is you've got to get serious about your toxin exposure. And so many of us are trying to be really mindful of, for example, drinking enough water. And we're not paying enough attention to what's in our water, right. Or we're really mindful about getting into skincare and keeping our skin really nourished. But we're not paying attention to what's in our skincare. So it's time to really prioritize the things that I like to say the things our bodies is going to absorb the most stuff that are either going into your body or staying on your body for a long time, are really the things you want to prioritize first replacing if it feels daunting to do this. And I really, really recommend, first of all, bread is not enough your fridge filters, not enough. It's not enough, a whole house filter in many cases is not enough, you need a much higher quality, quality water, really important. And you also need better skincare products, friends. And there are easy ways to do that. So ew G the Environmental Working Group, they have a fantastic app or website called skin deep. There's also an app called Think dirty. And there are a number of other apps. So you can play with the ones and find the ones you like. And you can go through everything you have and use when it comes to personal care and see where it rates and try to find upgrades. And then when it comes to water filters, there are a couple that I really liked. But it depends a little bit on your water quality. So check your water quality. So Ew, g.org/tap water, you can check and see what is in your water personally. And then you can choose a filter that's going to work the best for you. For example, there's fluoride in my water. So I want to filter that out because fluoride is a neurotoxin, and damaging to our thyroid and I have history of a thyroid issue. So I filter out fluoride and that was really important for me. But I have clients who live places where they don't add fluoride to the water so they wouldn't need something that had that extra capability.

Amy 13:55

A quick mention I wanted to say two things. We did an episode a couple months ago with a company called Million marker that does all of this measurement arounds endocrine disruptors in the house, so it's a really interesting episode to get tips around how to do this in simple ways around your house, what you're putting on etc. And I also use an app called yaka y UK, which is similar to think dirty, which is also really eye opening. And that's made me make better choices too. So good thing to like, go back to that episode and listen, and yeah, it's really important. Those three tips are really helpful,

Speaker 3 14:30

too, by the way that this going through your toxin exposure is important is because of Xeno estrogens. So these are synthetic hormone like substances that are in all of these different kinds of toxins that are in all these kinds of products and in our environment. And literally in your body. Your body will try to plug it into the same place that it's going to plug estrogen in so then you have a toxic substance being plugged in there. And that is why they're so problematic. And this is also very critical to anybody dealing with any kind of hormone issue and it's why it's it's a whole module in my DIY course because it's so darn important like you really, you can't avoid it.

Speaker 2 15:06

Speaking of your DIY course, I want our listeners to know exactly how they can find you. So, we found you on Instagram. What's your Instagram handle? Reminds me again. Yes. So

Speaker 3 15:17

I'm at Marissa Fay wellness. So one s Mar Isa, and then fe, fe y e wellness, and I'm on Tiktok and instagram with that username

Speaker 2 15:26

and your you teach a course or you have a course available and you also work, one to one with clients as well, correct?

Speaker 3 15:34

I do yeah, I do both. So if you want to check out the course, you can go to balanced hormone blueprint.com. And if you want to learn a little bit more about me and potentially working one on one with me, you can go to Marissa feiyr.com. And also just something special for anybody listening, I have a free training, it is over an hour long. So this is like jam packed. And you can get lots of info and tips from here. But I have a free training all about three secrets to balanced hormones. And you can pick that up at bit.ly/hormone training. And because people have trouble with this, I'm just going to spell out the bit.ly. It's B I T period, l y slash and then hormone training.

Amy 16:14

That's great. Is that all of your website as well?

Speaker 3 16:16

It's actually I'm web redesigning my website, which has been a month long. Yeah, so it's it will be there. It is not okay.

Amy 16:25

But good to have the direct link. Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:28

Yeah, we know how we know all about building out that website takes time. So

Amy 16:33

super quickly before before you leave us let's do a quick wrap session because I'm sure our listeners are dying to know, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack.

Speaker 3 16:42

I mean, my favorite hack is literally what you do on the inside takes care of the outside. So it really is hydration with good water and minerals. You got to add nutrients there and these balanced meals that are really the cornerstone of what I do throughout the day. And then on top of that, really I'm a huge fan of natural kind of medicinal skincare. So I lately have been using bee products on my face. And I'm obsessed with it. I feel like it's moisturizing and glowy and just so good.

Speaker 2 17:15

What is this B product is that the brand? The brand is the product? No,

Speaker 3 17:18

it's not actually what I'm using right now is a jar I got in Greece, but I do use oh my god, what is the brand beekeepers natural so I do use a number of their products but I really like to use like royal jelly. Things that have like BEE POLLEN groundup and in them as long as you don't have an allergy to bees or pollen. Even a little bit of me so a little bit of honey with some good olive oil. That's great facemask like, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 17:48

Okay. All right, this next one we call it our five minute flow you just got out of the shower and dried off an Uber has pinged you they're five minutes away. What are you going to do to like quickly get it together, get you know, your look on and get out the door and in that Uber on time?

Speaker 3 18:03

I mean, moisturize always right, it was one of those things I just mentioned for sure. And then I love a I love a beauty knockoff hack. Like I love a good product that's less expensive and not more toxic. And so I love like tart has a lot of products I love even elf has a number of lower toxin products. So I'm gonna like put some foundation on, put some mascara on, put some lip gloss on and a little bronzer and get out the door. So that's kind of my, my thing that I focus on.

Amy 18:37

And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Unknown Speaker 18:39

Oh, I try. I don't know if I do it.

Amy 18:44

Well, maybe your water drinking. I mean,

Speaker 3 18:47

no, honestly, I feel like my morning sets me up for my day. So I really am a fan of wake up and get outside. You don't have to walk by the way. Literally, I sit outside. And oftentimes I'll listen to meditation or calm music, although sometimes I don't sometimes I'm on my phone, right, which nobody's admitting, but it's true. So I get though, almost as soon as I wake up, I do a meditation in the morning and I do walk in the morning and I think that is really big to set me up for a day where like, I'm ready and focused and I can be at peace.

Speaker 2 19:22

Yeah, that sounds lovely. Alright, well, Marissa, thank you so much for being with us today. This was like a very eye opening episode. Yes, I know. I love it. This might end up being a two parter. Thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it. Well,

Unknown Speaker 19:35

thanks for having me.

Amy 19:38

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 111 - Gut Healing for Beginners with Gut Journalist, Sarah K Hoffman, aka A Gutsy Girl (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 111 - Gut Healing for Beginners with Gut Journalist, Sarah K Hoffman, aka A Gutsy Girl

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your Nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:24] Amy Sherman: You.

[00:29] Katie Chandler: Welcome back to the show. Today we are sitting down with Sarah K hoffman. She is the founder of a gutsy girl. The Gutsygirl.com. It's an online community geared towards women who are looking for reasonable approaches for healing. IBS IBD, SIBO and all things gut focused. What began for Sarah as an online journal documenting the day to day with one health issue after the next would shortly become less story focused and more research and journalistic based, which I very much understand that Sarah. Today, Sarah seeks out highly detailed information and then condenses it in digestible ways for women worldwide. After years of struggling with her own health issues and considering there must be more to healing than the answer she was given, she went on to study at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, adding a certified health coach to her education. And she continued to devote every spare second to studying, researching, practicing all things gut health and gut healing and has built this amazing community. A gutsy girl. And we are just super excited that you're here. We can't wait to talk to you. We have so many questions for you. So thanks for being here.

[01:36] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Thanks for having me. I'm super excited. I love being able to sit down and talk on the other end of the seat with podcasters and just kind of to be in the hot seat.

[01:47] Amy Sherman: Yeah, that's right, you have your own podcast so we will all have to check that out as well. And yes, thank you for being on. I know Katie is the one who introduced your page to me and she's been following you for a very long time and is a super fan of all your knowledge. So thank you so much for being here.

[02:03] Katie Chandler: Before we get started, we like to do a little Nirvana of the Week. Sarah, it's just something that just brought you a moment of joy. Amy and I will go first so you can get the feeling of it. But Amy, why don't you tell us what was your nirvana this week?

[02:16] Amy Sherman: So I was thinking about this this morning and I had a really cute moment yesterday. I was driving and you know, we're always like rushing and driving, whatever and I was just kind of like rushing through my neighborhood not paying attention. And I was driving on my neighborhood street and I saw this massive deer go across the street like really slowly. So of course I stopped and the person across from me stopped and it was like this massive mama deer walking across the street really slowly. And then like 2 seconds later there was this little baby deer. It was the cutest thing. It was so small. I don't think I've ever seen a deer that small. This little baby deer just like walking across this street, kind of like not even so. Just kind of like bouncing around and like a little toddler or something walking across the street. And the mom was just like, waiting on the other side and then she got to the other side and the mom looked at her like we would do with our kids, just like making sure she was okay and then off they went. But it was just so sweet when you see nature like that. And it's like we all stopped all the cars. Like my car, the car crossed from me. We all just watched them and took that moment. It was just a nice little smile on my face. So I really appreciated seeing that. It was very sweet to see other moms doing their thing. That was mine. What about you, Katie?

[03:26] Katie Chandler: Here in our backyard all the time, which has actually brought me not a ton of nirvana because my dog had a tick yesterday from it. But that's okay.

[03:34] Amy Sherman: Yeah, not in the backyard, but out in nature.

[03:37] Katie Chandler: I think mine was yesterday with Reese. I have two girls, Sarah. I have an almost ten year old and a five year old. And we just had some good snuggles last night. We both had really busy days and I took her to the dentist and I was running all day, she was running all day. And we just got in bed and watched the other half of Et. We watched this weekend and we watched it together. I haven't watched it since I was a kid, so it was kind of fun to watch with her, but it was just some good snuggles. What about you, Sarah?

[04:07] Sarah Kay Hoffman: I love those. Those are so awesome. And I love this question, too. It's such a peaceful and calm question. I have two girls too, about similar in age. We have a seven, eight and nine year old. So I have two girls and a boy. It's busy. I don't have too many nirvana moments with them, but I would say so. I was listening to yours and I'm just taking myself to a really peaceful moment. And it was this morning, actually. So a few years ago, about the time when my dad passed away, I started really getting into succulents and caring for them and keeping them alive because they're always on the list of the easiest plants to take care of, but they're not, especially when you live in Minnesota, because this is not the desert, obviously. I have been spending the last few years really taking care of them and so I have now brought them into my house in the winter and I put them under lights and then in the spring and summer I bring them outside. Well, my collection has just really blossomed. I have so many pots of succulents out on our deck and it was just the most beautiful morning overlooking the lake in Minnesota today. So I went outside and I just sat there and stared at my succulents and watched the water, just like the sun glisten off of the water over my succulents. It was so peaceful that sat there for lovely ten minutes enjoying the fruits of my labor with my succulents and love succulents.

[05:39] Amy Sherman: You'll have to send us a picture. I need to see what they look like so I can get some inspiration. I used to have some, and now they're no longer in as good health as yours, clearly. But that sounds beautiful.

[05:51] Katie Chandler: Very peaceful. Sounds like a great way to start the day. All right, well, let's kick this off because we have a lot of questions for you. I think first, if you could just give our community a little bit of an insight into the gutsy girl community, that would be great.

[06:06] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah. So I actually started the gutsy girl community way back when in I think it was 2012, when I bought a gutsygirl.com. And at the time and there's a reason I'm saying this first, but at the time, I created the brand and the community because I wanted to connect with women who were not only dealing with IBS and or IBD. As I was in 2008, was diagnosed with colitis, and then 2014 was diagnosed with SIBO, and I've been diagnosed with all the things. But also during that time around 2012, I was dealing with another super gutsy issue that many women, also, who have IBS and or IBD deal with, which is infertility. And so it was just this time of my in my life when I thought, you know, I'm going to just be really bold and brave and talk about this and form a community, because I didn't really have one like my offline. There wasn't really one. So I wanted one, and I wanted a space to be able to share and to talk about both the physical and the emotional challenges that I was dealing with. And so I created this community. And over time, it really has shifted and changed, I think partly because that's just the way that websites go typically, but also because I became less focused on the infertility part of it. I would do still talk about it sometimes, just not as often. And I got really hyper focused on IBS and IBD because I do a lot of plays on words. But I noticed that there were these stinky topics that people in general did not want to talk about, but especially women. And so I thought, these are my people, and these are the people that I want to talk to and hang out with online. And then ultimately yeah, I love that.

[08:01] Katie Chandler: It's so true that it's not like it's taboo. It's just like I feel like people are embarrassed to discuss these things, and meanwhile, it's super natural in common, and all of us have it. I've always been the first one to be like, oh, go to the bathroom in four days. I know people that are like, they don't want to talk anything about it, and I understand, but to be able to open up the dialogue and everything is great, and it's incredibly helpful, and obviously, you have a massive following that, and you've helped a lot of people. So that's why you have created it and why your community of people, they're coming to you because you find that they are dealing with similar experiences, having a challenging time, getting a diagnosis, and sorting out how to heal their symptoms. Those are the things that you help them with.

[08:52] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yes. So I feel like most women come into the community who have gone to Dr. Google and who are asking, why does my stomach hurt? It is the foundational feeling and question that many women have because it's very confusing. And I think the reason is because there are so many factors. And so on any given day, our stomach can feel off for one reason or another, and at some point, people just think, what's causing this? Why does my stomach hurt? Yesterday I was fine. Today I'm not. Last week is miserable. What's triggering it? And then they go down the rabbit hole, and there's all these questions. And so I think that's really the basis of the community and the foundational place that people start.

[09:48] Katie Chandler: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, because I should be in your community because I experience similar things. My stomach will be great, and then it won't be. And then I try to figure out why, and it's impossible, and then you figure out why, and then it's something else. It's just constantly changing. So let's dive into a little bit more about what your expertise has taught you with all of this. Why is IBS IBD SIBO so prominent with women especially?

[10:21] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Well, I think there's a lot of reasons for this, and to be very clear, okay, so IBS is irritable bowel syndrome. It's a whole bunch of symptoms and things that then fall under this classification of IBS. It's pretty much when you go to your doctor and they're like, well, we're not really sure. So it's IBS. And to me and in my experiences and in different doctors that I've worked with and talked to and research and all the things, it's really just kind of a BS diagnosis. But unfortunately, so many women, that's kind of the place where they start and they stay for a really long time. Then there's IBD, which, of course, is inflammatory bowel disease, which is very severe. It's diagnostic. It's all the things. And I would say I tend to focus a little bit less there because it is so severe. And a lot of women not a lot women who have IBS can also have IBD, but they haven't gotten to that place yet. Right. So it's almost like a futuristic thing that I'm trying to help women get to faster, if that's really what the problem is. And then SIBO just falls underneath the IBS category. So SIBO stands for small Intestinal bacterial overgrowth. And it's a huge I'm sure you guys have seen it online, but it's a huge explosion of conversation because more and more women are being diagnosed with it. It's the diagnosis that you have been to your doctor, your gastroenterologist, whatever, over and over and over, and they said, it's just IBS, and turns out it's really SIBO. There's so many different terms, right? There's so many different things that people fall under. But that's where it's also very confusing, because when we come into any one of these, there are multiple symptoms, and you can have these symptoms on any given day, but that doesn't mean that you have colitis or Crohn's or celiac. Doesn't necessarily mean that, but it can. And so I think that these are the things that I work with every single day. And women are coming into this community because they feel these symptoms, and they know that they are not normal, but they have just learned to live with them, and now they're seeking greater answers. I will say that in my research as well, we talk about women come in into the community, and they're either more on the constipation I can't go to the bathroom spectrum or their diarrhea. And it is about 70% of women fall more on the constipation can't go than on the other end. That would be yes, and that's very common. And there's so many reasons for this. Of course, there can be underlying things. It could be a hormonal thing. It can be an actual medical condition. You could have parasites. You could have scar adhesions that have there's so many actual medical things that they could be. But honestly, what I find more often than not is it's a lifestyle component. So it's the stress. It's the lack of exercise or too much exercise. It is the diet. There are so many factors that play into it. And see right here, I've just described how many different things and this is why it's so confusing, because you're like, oh, my gosh, I don't even know where to start. Okay, now I'm done.

[14:13] Amy Sherman: Yeah. And I would think it's hard too, because it's very different, right, for every single person. Also, I would imagine the regular sort of traditional gastroenterologist type doctor would probably just put you on some sort of medicine and call it a day, which we talk about a lot on the show, of going further and figuring out what else you can do before going on some crazy medicine or doing so. It's also like, who do you even the fact that your community exists is amazing. And then it's like there's got to be other ways to treat other than just, like, taking some hardcore medicine by more integrative type wellness care, I would imagine.

[15:00] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah. And I think that's one reason why I'm able to connect with the community so well is because that was my exact story when I was first diagnosed in 2008. It was through traditional Western medicine and a gastroenterologist, which on the one hand, you're so grateful because they are able to do some of those more invasive procedures and testing and insurance can help get you to those answers. But unfortunately, not once was I ever mentioned anything about the way I was living and the factors in my life. And instead they gave me canasa, which is a suppository, and it made me worse. And it was at that point that I was like, okay, this isn't adding up because I got worse. And I remember a specific day, it will never leave my mind. I was so distended and so bloated. I could not breathe. I was absolutely miserable. And I called my gastroenterologist and he said, okay, yes, come in. I'm going to check you out. Whatever. So he looked at me and he said, oh, wow, you are so distended. The answer is you're going to go down to the Walgreens and you are going to get a bottle of magnesium citrate. It was red, by the way, that big, red, thick, gooey liquid bottle, and you're going to drink the whole bottle.

[16:22] Amy Sherman: Oh, my God.

[16:23] Sarah Kay Hoffman: And it's going to take care of the problem. And lo and behold, I went I did exactly what he said. At this time in my life, I didn't care. I didn't know any and it worked. And everything went through me. And I was like, but I was miserable. I mean, I was miserable. I was sick. Like, you hear about all the jokes about the laxatives? Yeah, that was me. That was me on that day. But I was like, there just has to be more. And I refuse to live the rest of my life like this.

[16:50] Katie Chandler: It's amazing how it can be something so complex and then also but something so simple, like taking magnesium citrate can help you in that moment. But the thing is that these are not long term fixes. So what is it that you did to adjust and to get to where you are now? Because from what I see on your site and what I've heard on your podcast, is that you feel great. You're really healthy, you've gotten your gut under control, and you're helping others do it. For our listeners that are struggling with this, maybe we can just throw out some high level tips that could help them get on their way.

[17:33] Sarah Kay Hoffman: So the way that I break it down is I have after I went through my whole thing, I ultimately got my SIBO diagnosis in 2014, and I healed for good in 2018. And then I'm just laying out the rest of my story before I give you these. So it makes sense.

[17:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[17:54] Sarah Kay Hoffman: So I healed for good in 2018. Between 2014 and 2018, I relapsed from SIBO four times. I have taken all the antibiotics, all the supplements. I've done every last protocol that you can think of from a dietary and medical standpoint. And what ended up happening in 2018 was that I finally figured out how important that stuff was. Important, but the lifestyle component was. And so after I healed, what happened was in 2019, then I just got this let me back up too. My dad was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2017. So the irony though, was not lost on me because I have an entirely renewed energy and passion for people and digestive issues and disease and cancer. And so I got really hyper focused on what actually helped me heal, what was it and what did that mean? And out of that derived my three pillars for ultimate gut healing. And the first two are definitely in order. And the third one is you kind of have to start working on it right away, but it's diagnosis, diet, and lifestyle. So without the appropriate diagnosis, which for me was the SIBO, I went years and years and years of being told it's just IBS and then colitis, and then this, this, yes, those were contributing factors, but what was my bottleneck making me the most miserable was the SIBO. So I had to get to that diagnosis. You have got to have an appropriate diagnosis because if you don't, it's like you're constantly playing the guessing game. You're constantly just going to be analyzing symptoms and trying to figure out which symptoms fall in line with what gut health problem. Right? So diagnosis. The second one is diet. My biggest mistake that I made from a diet standpoint was that I believed that there was a diet, a templated diet out there that was going to heal me. And I believed that if I could so for instance, I would start with the Paleo diet. And if the Paleo diet was working but it wasn't fully working, then I thought I had to paleo harder. And so then I went to the AIP diet, which is the autoimmune protocol, which is just a more stringent version of that. Okay, so then I'm actually eating less and then, well, that's working, but there's still not. So then you just go down this.

[20:43] Katie Chandler: Awful, awful now let's try baby denim diet. And then let's do yes. It just keeps going on and on, right?

[20:51] Sarah Kay Hoffman: And so I had to learn the very hard way that there was no such thing as the perfect diet for me. And the only diet that would work for me, it was the one that I would create based on my diagnosis and what my body was telling me. And I did this through Meticulous Food journaling and listening to my body. We know, you know, inside, we know we don't need anybody to tell us that you can or can't have the white rice. Okay? You know, your body knows. So diet was a second very important thing. And then the last one, the last pillar is lifestyle. And it's so funny because in the beginning of my journey, I rolled my eyes big time at this one. I was like, yeah, right, what's my lifestyle going to do? How am I going to reduce my stress or who cares what supplement? Whatever it was with Lifestyle, I did not believe in it until I started practicing it. And miraculously or not, my life completely changed. It completely changed. I think the first time I ever realized it was so when I was on my healing journey and really stressed and really bloated, for a lot of women, the first thing they think is exercise more. If I go run, it's going to reduce my stress, maybe I'll lose a couple of pounds and we get women especially, really get into this mindset when you're bloated and miserable and maybe hanging on to any extra water weight or whatever. That was really working against me. Every time I would start training again for something new because I thought it was going to help me, I got worse. So the final time that I healed, I said, okay, I'm done, I'm done. I would just walk. I would do different stretches and yoga. I learned how to do all the digestive stretches and I healed. And I'm not saying that's what it is for everyone. What I'm saying is the lifestyle piece is so critical. I also started verbal therapy. I got massages, I did all the things that I always thought were so woo woo and wouldn't work. And I do them to this day. And I think the lifestyle pillar is the hardest one because it's something that you do forever. You don't just get to at some point, we hope we can, wean off of high doses of medicine. Or like in the case of SIBO, I did intense 28 days of refaxmin and Neomycin. Well, ultimately you do stop that, right? But you never get to stop the lifestyle piece. So that happened. I created those. And then I am just so passionate today about continuing to teach and preach my three pillars because in 2019, then my dad passed away from colon cancer. I ever hear that it's just been.

[23:40] Katie Chandler: This roller coaster of and then an awful tragedy like that happens and I mean, I can imagine that it's very hard to maintain the lifestyle that you're supposed to be maintaining. So it's probably a little bit of an up and down. But the fact that you're healed is amazing. And I can only imagine how helpful this is for people. And the lifestyle piece for you, what you needed was to be easier on yourself, it sounded like to be more gentle with your body instead of killing yourself in the gym, going on these walks and everything. We've talked a lot about that on here and how much it can really help on so many things, so many levels with inflammation and just achieving results on multiple layers. I want to circle back a little bit to the SIBO, because I've definitely had an experience with SIBO, and I think for some people that are listening, if that's an unfamiliar term, it's good to just understand that we have all of this bacteria in our gut and it works for us. And then if it gets out of balance, it can work against us. And that's essentially what it is, right? Like I've had candida of the gut overgrowth and that is like it's torture trying to get these things out. But the reason why I bring it up is because I just want to know what helped you get that diagnosis or what type of doctor helped you get to that point. So that our listener, if they're experiencing similar things, knows who to go to.

[25:04] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah, I definitely went the functional route for that. So because I was so miserable and kind of at my wits end, I'm like, I will try anything. At the time we were living in California and a friend of mine said there's this fantastic functional doctor, but it's going to be like an hour and a half away and he specializes in all these things. I was like, it's going to be super expensive. But again, I was desperate and so that's what I did. That's the route that I went as I went more functional. However, I will say that because it's become such a more known issue in the gut space, a lot of traditional doctors are testing for it now. Yes, I think that back then if you went to a western trained doctor, they're definitely going to roll their eyes. And I still believe that there are I know because people tell me a lot of eye rolls still. We're not going to test you for that, especially with people like what happened with me, I gained weight, whereas they're trained that usually you lose a lot of weight and so they might dismiss it, but if you truly think that you have it, do not let them. It's a very simple breath test. I'm not saying it's easy to do, but it is a very simple breath test. However, if you want to know that it's definitely going to be on the table for discussion, immediately, going the alternative.

[26:39] Katie Chandler: Route is probably it's interesting.

[26:41] Amy Sherman: I have a question about SIBO. Is that something you get that can be healed and you don't get it? Again? Because I know colitis is more of like an inflammation that you always have it that can flare up and flare down, but it's like a disease that you have versus is SIBO a disease or is it more just like something that you come down with that you can be healed from?

[27:05] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah, you can be healed from it. It's an overgrowth of bacteria. Okay, so like celiac or colitis those are autoimmune diseases that can be triggered. They can go into remission. But when I hear people say they're cured of it, I'm like, that's not the correct term because you don't get cured from it. There's no cure anyways. You can go into remission. But like with SIBO, so it's an overgrowth and it's not just SIBO is SIBO is SIBO, meaning there's a reason why the SIBO occurred to begin with.

[27:40] Amy Sherman: Right.

[27:41] Sarah Kay Hoffman: And usually you have to understand that to know if it's going to come back or not. For me it was chronic dieting for years and years and years, which led to super low stomach acid, like not even hypochlohydria. I had achlohydria, I had no stomach acid. And so until I figured that out, it did keep relapsing because interesting, also stress reduces stomach acid. So I had all the things anyways. So in that case, if you don't know you have low stomach acid, yes, it's going to come back. You can treat it with your refaxamin, your neomyosin, whatever you want, but it's going to come back. There's other things though, like so I had Doctor Neurology, she's a SIBO expert in Australia, she came on my show and we talked about all of the underlying causes and one of them is like scars or adhesions, like if you have surgery and in that case they heal over time. Yes, but I think it seems like it could reoccur easier because you're never really going to get rid of them. Right. And then sometimes people travel and they pick up a bug and that is actually what refaxamin was originally prescribed for, was travelers diarrhea. And so with a case like that, I feel like that is a little bit easier to overcome because that was like a one time thing. So it really depends on why it occurred to begin with.

[29:13] Amy Sherman: And you found out why it occurred through working with that integrated doctor integrative doctor. Exactly, yeah, because that's, I think such a key piece. I think we all struggle with whether you have stomach issues or migraines like me, et cetera, of like what is the root cause, not like how can I feel better? And yes, I want to feel better, but why am I getting it in the first place? And I think that is like the hardest thing to figure out. And I'm sure to your point, once you did, then you at least could try to figure out then how to resolve it.

[29:41] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Right. So for me it was understanding to the nth degree all about stomach acid and how I was going to increase it. And even to this day I have very adequate, obviously, stomach acid and I'm not relapsing anymore, but I still do things every single day to make sure that I'm always on the up.

[30:02] Katie Chandler: I want to ask a bit about that because I was listening to your most recent episode, which is exactly about the low stomach acid.

[30:08] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Piece.

[30:08] Katie Chandler: And I think that's my problem too. I'm pretty sure that mine stems from having Hypothyroidism and autoimmune stuff, and that's the low stomach acid piece for me. But just curious what you do. Do you do like the betane HCL or digestive enzymes and things like that to help you keep your stomach acid elevated?

[30:29] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah, I do both of those, which are also both in my supplement line because I'm so particular and adamant about them when I was first healing. Yeah, the next episode of the podcast is going to be my eleven natural ways that I increase it because I'm so passionate about it. But like okay, so you can do things that will increase it via supplement. There are also natural ways, like apple cider vinegar, you can do lemon, you can do breathing exercises. There's a lot of natural ways to increase it. My favorite one, honestly though, is just straight any type of added HCL, butane HCL with Pepsin and the enzymes. Because the thing about stomach acid is that we need it to break our food down. So that means we just need help, period, in breaking food down, which is one of the biggest challenges across the board for people. I think there's so many different factors and reasons for that. But the first place that we start breaking our food down is we put food in our mouth and there's all these natural there should be natural digestive enzymes, right? But even there, the digestive process gets off for people. And so having a really high quality digestive enzyme and or mine has the HCL a little bit added right to it. So it's kind of like an all in one will really help the food break down. So that it's easier from a stomach acid standpoint, it's easier for everything to just digest. And for us, ultimately, the goal is to absorb the nutrients, right? 90% of nutrients are absorbed in the small intestine, which is why when you have SIBO, it's a small intestinal issue. You have so many problems with digestion and then also weight, because either you're not absorbing them, you're not doing it right, whatever. There's so many different scenarios. I guess there's a lot of natural ways that you can increase your stomach acid. Something that's really interesting about stomach acid too, is how we've been told forever that we all have too much stomach acid. So we have to be so careful because we have acid reflux, because we have too much stomach acid. And now, of course, research is coming out and people are really being shown, and it's being proven that in fact, a lot of these symptoms are coming because we don't have enough. And then, unfortunately, doctors are putting people with, quote unquote, too much stomach acid on all of these PPIs, these acid reducers, which then is reducing their stomach acid even more, creating even more problems. I'm not saying that everyone is there.

[33:22] Amy Sherman: A test to know you have low stomach acid.

[33:25] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah. So I just talked about that too. So there is a medical one, but it's pretty invasive, so a lot of doctors won't start there. They'll do more of an at home test. The one that I did was with straight HCL and betane HCL and it's a pretty easy process. It's just getting the I think Thorne has a great one on integrative therapeutics. They both have just a great HCL with Pepsin. So the way it goes is you have to be eating protein. That's part of the test. So you eat at least like a whole serving of protein. You take one of the HCL pills, listen to your body, and if there's no burning or anything, then you know that you might not have enough stomach acid. So then the next meal you'd take two with high protein and see what happens. Now when I did this test, I was up to like twelve pills and nothing was happening. And my doctor is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, now we're having too much water with our meals, which also inhibits appropriate digestion. So I was on a protocol for a long, long time where I was doing eight HCL pills until I got it up. So now I'm way down. But that's one of the at home tests. And then you'll see a lot of people talk about like, baking soda challenge and stuff like that. I don't know, I never did that, but I know a lot of functional nutritionists will do that with their clients as well. Interesting, the only test that I know for stomach acid is that one, but it's invasive and it's costly.

[35:03] Katie Chandler: Yeah, you're jogging my memory. I was just going to say when I had SIBO, like peak COVID, I did some of those tests. I did the baking soda one, I don't remember exactly, but I just remember doing these like, at home experiments. It's funny. And also just really quickly, Amy, sorry, I think it was on your social page that I saw a very simple tip for digesting your food, which is chew your food a lot, right? Chew way more than you think you should, and don't drink any water because when you're drinking the water with those meals, you're flushing out those digestive enzymes instead of helping them do their job. So that one's always stuck with me. But anyway Amy, sorry, go ahead.

[35:46] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I know, that's interesting because I feel like I'm always drinking water with my meals, so good note. I wanted to go back to the food journaling because I think that that's interesting. I've never done it and I've always wanted to because it seems overwhelming. But like you were saying, you had a really in depth food Journal. Was there a certain template you followed or how did you track it? Can you just tell us a little bit about that? Because I think for people that are having stomach issues, it might be something worth experimenting with.

[36:12] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yes. So I have my own journal, actually, because it was one of my top tools, and I perfected the process over a decade. But I remember in the beginning, I have a post on my website, too, that shows kind of what my journals look like in the beginning, because in the beginning, they were really focused on calories, and I stood everything all wrong and then till today. So food journaling, if you do it correctly, can be life changing. And the reason why I love mine so much is because it's broken down into 90 days. And the thing is, a lot of people that use my journal, why they like it so much is because it's almost like this compilation of all the things that they're doing, the symptoms they're seeing in a very structured way that they can then also give to their doctor so that by the time they get to their doctor, their doctor is not like, okay, well, I think it's just IBS. They're like, well, no, because XYZ, I've been tracking So on my journal, you track your bowel movements. And I have the whole Bristol Stool chart in there so that if our bowel movements are off on just a random day randomly, we don't really think much about it. But like, for instance, if you are having diarrhea for seven days in a row and then there's blood in some of it, that's very telling. Your doctor needs to know that, and there's a way that you can track that and to be able to see it over time. But in addition to things like that, I also have women track their cycle days because that's very helpful information for the doctor. I have, obviously, water intake, which is pretty standard and basic, but I also have an entire key. So the way that I created my journal is bullet journal meets regular Food and Lifestyle journaling. So I provide a key and I teach you how to use it from the standpoint of okay, so S equals supplement. And so when I write S, I can write digestive enzymes, and then you write the time, and then there's different symptoms that you can write down, and it's all right there in a really detailed and focused and simplified way for you and for your doctor. Because I can't tell you how many times I would feel okay for a couple of months, and then I'd start feeling miserable again. And I'm like, what did I do these past couple of months? How have I been living? And there's just no way to remember all that stuff. And so this was kind of my answer to that.

[38:52] Katie Chandler: Very smart.

[38:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I'm going to check that out.

[38:54] Sarah Kay Hoffman: That's really helpful.

[38:55] Amy Sherman: Yeah, because to your point, it's like the food, but then it's like, what else is happening? And yeah, you're not going to remember how you're feeling on the daily, and.

[39:03] Katie Chandler: That'S a great tool.

[39:04] Amy Sherman: That's amazing that you have that.

[39:05] Katie Chandler: That's a good resource. I feel like we could probably ask you 1 million questions about this and just keep going on and on and on.

[39:12] Sarah Kay Hoffman: I feel like we're like, just I.

[39:13] Amy Sherman: Know we have to go back because I'm like, wait, I have so many.

[39:16] Katie Chandler: More questions, so let's just quickly touch again on your line of supplements. So you have the journal that you just mentioned. You have the digestive enzymes, the betane HCL.

[39:27] Sarah Kay Hoffman: What else do you offer? Yeah, the supplement line is only about a year old now, but the reason I did is because I was spending so much on everyone else's supplements, and I'm like, okay, well, I know exactly what I need and what the community needs, so I'm just going to do it. They're not on a gutsyroll.com. They're on gut healingsupplements.com. And I have a digestive enzyme which is called breakdown. I have herbal bitters because I truly believe in them for naturally increasing stomach acid and helping our bodies to just be able to do it on its own over time. And that's called digest. Plus, I have tummy soothe, which is my immune. It's my IgG immune. I'm obsessed with it. It's actually a powder, so you can add it to anything. It was unflavored. And then we have a brand new we just released last week is Collagen, which is one of my favorite things for all things, but not just gut health, but wellness in general. And then a magnesium, of course, it's called Move now and then just like two more that are they're just kind of like complementary to certain people or lifestyles or routines. One is moromega. It's really the inflammation reducer. It's a one to one ratio of DHA and EPA. So a lot of women love that one too. I don't miss a day with that one because inflammation and then the other one would just be my multivitamin.

[41:00] Katie Chandler: Congratulations. That's amazing to have that line and offer all of it. What is your favorite type of magnesium? What is your magnesium? Is it glycinate citrate? What do you use?

[41:11] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yes, it's glycinate. I think people are always surprised that I didn't use citrate. But honestly, that's really for emergency uses. It's explosive, and I don't want that. I have magnesium in the glycinet form, and you take it at night because the idea is that it promotes better sleep, which is foundational for my lifestyle pillar, but also more gentle as far as then your ball movements the next day. And I absolutely love that. Our whole family.

[41:44] Katie Chandler: I love magnesium glycinate, by the way.

[41:47] Sarah Kay Hoffman: I will say because this is one of my top questions people ask me all the time, why don't you have a probiotic? And I will tell you why. The reason I don't have a probiotic is because I have always used the just thrive one, and I saw no reason to create one. The reason is because I still believe at the end of the day that probiotics are very subjective and I really educate people on strains and species and understanding what can work for you. For me, to create a probiotic was like I felt like it was doing a disservice to people because I never want people to feel worse. And sometimes I swear by the just thrive one, but it's not for everyone. And I don't believe that there is one probiotic that's just like, for everyone can backfire.

[42:37] Katie Chandler: So you take yours every day, but.

[42:41] Sarah Kay Hoffman: That'S what works for you.

[42:43] Katie Chandler: It doesn't work for everybody.

[42:45] Sarah Kay Hoffman: It's not that a probiotic doesn't work for everybody. It's which one and which strains and species you're using might not. And also, if you have SIBO, when I was in the thick of SIBO and I was in massive flare mode, I didn't take a probiotic either.

[43:00] Katie Chandler: That's a dolphic.

[43:02] Amy Sherman: If you're constipated, should you be taking a probiotic? Does that help with that or does it not? Or is it not related?

[43:08] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah. So again, that's going to go back to the strains in the species and what you choose and also just how it's working with your body. And so, again, it's like working with.

[43:22] Amy Sherman: A doctor, nutritionist, integrative doctor to figure out what's right for you, essentially.

[43:28] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah.

[43:28] Amy Sherman: Which is why that food journal I.

[43:30] Katie Chandler: Think would be so great.

[43:31] Sarah Kay Hoffman: It's called healing blooms within. It's very intentional, too.

[43:35] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I would imagine. You just have to be consistent with it and then you can find out a lot of information. Okay, well, this has been amazing. I feel like we have so many more questions and we'll have to have you back, but thank you so much for joining us and just giving us kind of the one on one on Gut Health, and I'm glad it's become such a big topic. I feel like Gut Health, so many people we've had on the show have talked about, even if they're not experts in gut health, how important gut health is. And I think it's a little bit of such a vague term that sometimes it's hard to know what that means, what you do about it. If you somewhat feel okay, like, what should I be doing? So it's just really great that you're out there educating everybody. And just for our community, make sure you're following at a gutsy girl on Instagram because she has so many good pieces of information on there.

[44:24] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Thank you so much for having me. I will come back on the show.

[44:27] Katie Chandler: Thank you.

[44:28] Amy Sherman: Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Episode 106 - The A-List Approach: Makeup Tips For Every Occasion With Celebrity Makeup Artist, Christina Flach (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 106 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker 2 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy 0:31

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we are joined by Christina flax, celebrity makeup artists. We're so excited that she is here. Let me tell you a little bit about her before we get started because this is pretty incredible. Christina flax is a makeup artist and the CEO and founder of pretty girl makeup. Her celebrity clientele includes Condoleezza Rice, Hilary Swank, Isaiah Washington, Melissa McCartney, Rita Moreno, Renee Zellweger, Tyler, Florence and more. She has worked with high end brands such as Gucci and Louie Vuitton has been featured in campaigns for Macy's, Neiman Marcus Saks Fifth Avenue and Bloomingdale's, and has been featured in magazines, including Vogue time, people, and Elle. In addition, Christina also writes articles about the best tips, tricks and hacks in makeup, which we're so excited to hear about, and is featured as a beauty expert on California live on NBC amongst a lot of philanthropy and a lot of other things. So, welcome to the show. Christina. We're so happy to have you here.

Unknown Speaker 1:29

Well, thank you for having me today. Excited?

Amy 1:33

Yes. So we always start out the show with our nirvana of the week, which is like, take a step back, take a breath. Think about something that brought us joy this week. And I'm gonna hand it over to Katie, as I think about mine, because it's been quite the week.

Unknown Speaker 1:51

minutes and think about something right.

Amy 1:53

I know, right? Sometimes that comes easily. And sometimes I'm like, wait, I really got to, I really got to think through my week.

Speaker 2 1:59

Yeah, I think we're all in that boat. This week. The first half of my week was kind of nuts. And then yesterday, I tried to wake up and reset the day and I did a little morning manifestation while I was having my coffee. I just thought, Alright, this is the way I want the rest of the month to go. The first day of the month did not start out the way I wanted. So let's try a little reset. And I manifested some things with my work. And I have to tell you, it's really insane. All of a sudden, yesterday, I was hit with like a lot of work, things that I wanted, coming at me some great opportunities. It was kind of wild. So I think that was my nirvana. I had a just like a flux of opportunity yesterday. So it's my gosh,

Amy 2:36

that's awesome. Congrats. Thanks.

Speaker 2 2:40

Everyone should have, right yeah. What about you, Amy?

Amy 2:43

This is you're gonna laugh. So this is good and bad. So my husband came down with like the virus that's going around this week, and he's totally fine. It was like one of those one day viruses. Anyway, he slept in the other room one of the nights to that night, my two dogs slept with me. They normally don't sleep in our bed. So it was my Nirvana because it was just so sweet. Because they were cuddling with me all night. And it's like the best feeling having their like, coziness, just like against you. And like that heavy feeling. So anyway, that was like super sweet. So I would say that was my Nirvana this week. But what about you, Christina?

Speaker 3 3:15

My Nirvana this week is was I was down in Makita watching my son Nikolai played in a golf tournament. That time with him watching him do what he does, and going out to dinner with he and his teammates. And it was the first two days were nice, warm and sunny, and I'm walking this golf course. And I just thought, wow, I am so blessed that I get to be down here watching my my love my big love, son. You know, play golf.

Amy 3:42

Oh my gosh, how old is your son? That one is 22 Wow, is does he play in like a with a group or like, what kind of tournament team? So cool. Yeah, that sounds

Unknown Speaker 3:56

like a really good yeah. Jealous. Beautiful day too, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 3:59

Yes. And then the last thing which wasn't so Nirvana ish, was walking the golf course in the pouring rain with an umbrella.

Unknown Speaker 4:07

Oh, no. It's still

Unknown Speaker 4:09

fine, but it was just a little

Amy 4:11

old. So let's get started. First of all, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and we want to hear about your makeup line. Pretty cool makeup.

Speaker 3 4:19

Well, I am celebrity makeup artist and I am the creator and founder and CEO of pretty girl makeup and actually creating a new line with my partner Jordan. We are creating a new line called I'm too busy, which I am. I am also a sepsis awareness advocate. I am a philanthropist. I have started two educational funds at the Northern Light school in Oakland, California for underprivileged children. And I also helped start the bo Friedman outdoor classroom with Ed McGuire school in Mill Valley, California.

Unknown Speaker 4:56

Sounds like you're too busy.

Speaker 3 4:59

I'm a mother. Five and wow oh my gosh

Unknown Speaker 5:03

pretty cool. Is it is it a lip line? Pretty girl makeup

Speaker 3 5:07

right now it is it has. I've had it for over 15 years that I've had shadows eyeliners mascaras, but I've shrunk it down right now to a lip line. And we are going to be expanding I'm too busy into a full line of skincare and makeup products but just the products that one needs. You know, we don't I can't tell you how many times women tell me Oh, I went to the department store and I went and they sold me all this stuff and it seemed good at the time but I don't use any of it and I don't know how to use any of it and I don't need it. But I really want it to be what you need. Mascara, eyeliner, Shadow concealer, blush bronzer, some lip products, the end that's it? I know, you know, you're trying to the problem is that when people go to department store they think they're dealing with just a makeup artist and you have to keep in mind they are salespeople and what they need what they're trying to do is sell

Amy 6:02

and they do Yeah, it's that's so smart

Speaker 3 6:06

client and then they're just I think that people start resenting companies because they're buying products that they don't need and don't use and then they don't trust you because they're you know, you're they're buying things that are not using so the next time they go they're not really going to be quite I don't think is inclined to buy something if they didn't use it.

Speaker 2 6:27

Yeah, and it's good to know as a celebrity makeup artist that you have these like these holy grail items that you feel confidently this is all one really needs. You just said let's let's list those again. You said mascara,

Speaker 3 6:41

mascara, eyeshadows eyeliner, lip liner, blush, some foundation, concealer, sunscreen Scarah needs to be swapped out I would say every two to three months. kind of starts drying out. And foundation. I cannot tell you the funny stories people tell me about how they match their foundation to their skin. I have heard the inside of their arm. I've heard their face. I have their hand in their face. I have heard like their thigh. i You've heard everything. And if you think about it, like look at the difference of color of my face and my

Amy 7:21

Yeah, so how do you do because I actually never know.

Speaker 3 7:24

Okay, so here's the deal, you go in there and you do I mean, the best thing would be to have like natural lighting, right? But you want the foundation to disappear. It doesn't need to be to light it doesn't need to be dark. It needs to literally disappear and that's the right color.

Amy 7:42

Okay, that's a lot and so many people buy online now obviously and so it's impossible. Yeah, it's easy, I

Speaker 3 7:49

think okay, I think you can reorder but I think it's really hard to tell the true shade of the foundation I mean, I know they have all these different apps and ways to help but I think personally I need to see it and see what it does is my skin in my light it's it's very it's too complicated to do online I think

Amy 8:09

ya know, it's really hard foundation here because

Speaker 3 8:13

I mean think about it how much wasted product you know if it's not the right color, are you gonna ship it back? Are you going to like I don't know. I just think it's better to try some of these things in person.

Speaker 2 8:25

Yeah, I agree. And I have ordered makeup online and it was kind of a fail. So if concealer sorry rather if foundation needs to disappear. How do you pick your concealer color Is it meant to be a little bit brighter.

Speaker 3 8:39

Okay, so I do so I would put down eye cream first super important to keep that area hydrated and not dry. I don't use powder under the eyes it shows fine lines and wrinkles. So with concealer, I just genetically have dark circles under my eyes and my eyes are just colored my lids are just colored everyone so I do like one lighter, like probably two or three shades lighter. I have one that's pretty much matches the foundation so I'll do the light one under on the whole lid and kind of blend it in. Then I'll put on the foundation super light and then I'll do another round of concealer on top of that so I have probably two or three layers of concealer but it's super light and blended in. You don't want to put a big glob of it because it just it doesn't look well so it's important to you know use your makeup brushes or your hand and kind of pat it in and eat that area

Amy 9:36

light and what's the best way to keep concealer from creasing?

Speaker 3 9:41

Having the eye cream underneath and not putting powder on top? Yeah, want to keep that area moist. You know and using a concealer that you know has good you know a little bit of cream you want it a little bit not oily but you do want it to have some moisture and the It won't show as many lines

Amy 10:08

speaking of concealer and eye cream, we would love to know what is your favorite concealer and what is your favorite ice cream? Or a few of your favorites.

Speaker 3 10:15

Okay, so I am quite fond right now of the Bobby Brown. I like ours, I like pixie knee elastin has a really great eye cream. I also keep one of those roller things, you know those like Rose Quartz. Oh, yeah. I keep that in my freezer. And first thing in the morning. I have I put this is my whole routine. It's so cuckoo. I wake up I put a tablespoon of coconut oil in my mouth. You know I do that pulling thing. And then I get roller and I just take away any swelling and inflammation under my eyes and my lids. And then I you know, go from there. Water, lemon and vitamins and tea.

Unknown Speaker 11:01

Nice. Sounds like a good morning.

Unknown Speaker 11:04

It's a lot to be me. I gotta tell you.

Amy 11:07

That's not too bad, actually, ya know? Sometimes, I mean, sometimes we hear morning routines that are like super super long, so I don't think that sounds bad at all.

Speaker 2 11:16

Yeah, Oil Pulling thing too I need to get into I know

Amy 11:19

I read about that. What is that supposed to do? It takes away

Speaker 3 11:23

toxins out of your mouth. It's supposed to keep your teeth white. But I also just takes out any you know, bad stuff that any bacteria in your mouth but so after you do what they say to do it like 10 to 20 minutes, spit it out and brush your teeth. You've got to brush out all the yuck that pulled out so

Amy 11:41

we get gargle it for 10 to 20 minutes. And you just keep it in your mouth for

Speaker 3 11:45

like 10 to 20 minutes. Oh, interesting. Yes. And then spit it out and go brush your teeth and then continue on. Okay, your routine. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 11:58

Amy, could you do that? I'm looking at your face. I'm thinking you're like

Amy 12:01

I don't know if I could do that for 20 minutes. I feel like I would get grossed out.

Speaker 3 12:04

It takes practice some days I will do it for you know one or two minutes sometimes I do tend to it just depends. I don't I don't judge myself. Some days it's longer sometimes it's not. Yes. Nabil

Amy 12:16

noticed a difference your teeth are white.

Speaker 3 12:19

Well, I hope I try but again, you gotta just keep doing everything. See what works.

Speaker 2 12:26

So nice. All right. So what are some of your favorite some other products let's get into different categories here like favorite brands of bronzers and blushes. And then I would also love to hear your tips and tricks for choosing the right colors and you know applying bronzer the right way etcetera.

Speaker 3 12:45

So I have a my friend nanny page or our friend who's our nanny, she great trick called the strap and she uses bronzer right down under here. If you have any loose skin, eat that a little bit dark. I put a little bit of bronzer underneath the brow bone, you know I'm not underneath the cheekbone. And just give yourself a little bit of like Cabo color like you've been in Cabo for a few days without having that and I try to keep all that when I if you look at my portfolio and Christina flack.com all the faces you'll see you don't really I mean unless it's a crazy fashion shoot but I like people to look like they have fresh dewy skin and pretty eyes and just really clean and fresh. And so I like to keep the eye colors just kind of in the palate of your hair. You know your skin in your hair and your eyes. Though it's typically like an egg Nagi color on the whole lid. I fill in brows whether it be with a shadow or a pencil. Eyebrows being filled in is it monster thing to me like it has to everyone needs their brows filled in. It's it makes such a difference it frames the face, it just looks polished, I love that look. With with the liner, I will I'd like to make a thin line on the top and the bottom. So I will pull up the the brow and put the liner as close into the lash line as possible and I keep it thin if it's thick, it's going to make the eyes look smaller and our goal always is to make our eyes look larger. And with liquid liner, that to me is a nighttime thing. I do not like seeing it in the day, especially with people that have fair skin and blonde hair and black liquid liner. I think it looks atrocious. You do like with a shot with eyeliner. I will put a shadow on top and so it'll soften the look but it will you know take away any mistakes that that we make and we all make them I make them but it's a good way even with a liquid liner. But you know you put it on you make a little mistake if you put a shadow a line of shadow on top. It will soften the look and you know that's a good idea.

Amy 14:58

I never thought to do that you're right because they need Do that liquid liner. If you don't have a

Speaker 3 15:03

commitment, you've made a commitment to the right liner. So

Amy 15:06

you just put some shadow on top. I like that. So here's my question because I always struggle with this for eyeshadow. How do you find the right colors? And like, what's your I don't have a template for like an easy application of it, because I just feel like again, that's a commitment and you're What if you put on the wrong color and it's a whole thing and I never know the right colors?

Speaker 3 15:30

Okay, so I would like with you, I would probably use like an egg Nagi color on the whole lid, fill in your brows. And then what color your eyes green, green. Okay, so are mine. So plum looks beautiful with green eyes. Hmm, well, I would do sometimes I will do a thin brown liner, and then put a plum shadow on top. That makes them stick out a little more. And then I will add the mascara you want the mascara to go, you know extended out of the corners. And then also I would probably do a thin another thin line of black liner. Not liquid but just black liner on top. So you don't really see it. It's kind of almost in the lashes. But it it makes them pop and they stick out a little bit more. We are seeing the plum.

Amy 16:14

And when you say plum, would you put plum all over do you put it just on the lid, you put it on the crease. Okay,

Speaker 3 16:21

so the whole lid is like an egg unagi color or maybe like you know, a sheer like just some straw. And then I'll put the liner and the shadow on the bottom and the top lids then and if I want to add a little bit more drama to the corners, I will add like a soft brown or the plum but just in the crease a little bit and blend, blend, blend. Yeah, make there's no mistakes like just remember, this is a one time deal you put on this shadow. And if you make a mistake, you use your finger or get a Q tip and blend it out or your makeup brush. Yeah, there's no I don't like people this there's no mistakes. It's just you have to try things sometimes. And it's always better to do a little do it in stages and do it a little less. Right and like a big, you know, a huge amount on your brush and then blend it in. It's you that's you can control things a little bit better if you do it in right a little

Amy 17:17

bit at a time. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, that's helpful, because that's like the one thing I always struggle with. It's like it and it is true. You really do have to experiment because I think I end up just going back to what I always do just because I'm like, Oh, I don't want to experiment. But now it is a good thing to experiment with. And what about blush and bronzer like how do you find the right color? Is it trial and error is there like again, like a certain rule because I always get confused when I'm looking at a bronzer that says like, warm or cool or like, I don't know what any of these things mean. So I'm just like, how do you find the right bronzer for you?

Speaker 3 17:52

Okay, I would get something that's not too dark. You just want it to be a little bit. Give yourself a little bit of color. So something not too strong. Still a little bit darker than what you have. You just want to have you just want it to be a little bit of you don't want it to be so dark that your face looks dirty.

Amy 18:12

Right? You just want like you said before, I'd like to be say Cabo something.

Unknown Speaker 18:16

Cabo color,

Amy 18:18

color. That's what we all strive for. Oh, yeah. I love that. Okay, the What about the lush? What's the rule there?

Speaker 3 18:29

Okay, there's no rules. I just think with makeup. It's like what's pleasing to your eye, but I think you know what, blush looks great on everybody orgasm by NARS. That was kind of pretty much looks good on every skin tone. But you know, when you go you can I think I don't know my eyes trained differently than most people. So it's kind of unfair to say but I think you can put different blushes next to your skin and some will just kind of flow with what your color is. And others will go okay, that's a total No. So find one that's a no and then go from there and look for the opposite I do you see what I'm saying? Like you just kind of have to try it and see and just keeping things kind of neutral and not going too extreme. You don't want purple. Okay, you just to give you a little bit of a hue, a little bit of color.

Amy 19:21

Yeah, and where's the best place to put blush? Like do you put it kind of higher ups you put it in the apples?

Speaker 3 19:29

Oh, I typically will put a little bit of bronzer like right here to contour. I don't like this contour and it's like so excessive. It's just a little bit under here, a little under the strap. And then I will get you know some blush and just put it kind of like right in here up a tiny bit. And they also like to put a little bit of, you know, highlighter, like right above here. I think it's just nice and it just gives a pretty look and then I can put some you know, contouring on each side of the nose and a Little bit of highlighter, straight down. But I just tried to sample like this morning I was up at, I don't know 330 At a photoshoot for Bloomberg and I am you know, I can't see this is the thing about my job. I can't go to work looking too terrible. I have to look relatively presentable.

Amy 20:20

Okay, right. You have to be done up.

Speaker 3 20:22

Yeah. Because if I can't keep myself together, how am I going to? How's anyone gonna trust me? So my sister was here this morning and she's like, it's 330 What are you putting makeup on? I'm like, because do you think anyone is going to want to like deal with me when I can't deal with myself. So it's a little bit of, you know, the concealer, the eyeshadow and some mascara and just a little bit of cheek and lip. And that's it. It's just simple. So I don't frighten people.

Amy 20:53

doubt that

Speaker 2 20:55

what was the AMI the other day we were saying we were talking about highlighters. And she Amy was the first person that introduced me to highlighters years ago. And she had this like pearly white highlighter. And then I have some that have more of a gold undertone. And we were saying how we know which color highlighter we should be using our skin tones because we have very different skin tones. I'm more of like an all of them, she's more fair.

Amy 21:18

And there's so many highlighters now, and so many different colors,

Speaker 3 21:21

like so many, but I think you just kind of have to pick the one that feels good and looks good to you. Because that is the big thing. I speak about beauty from the inside out. When someone feels good on the, you know, when you feel good about yourself, you're going to be happy, you're going to have just a much more pleasant demeanor. And so, you know, keeping things kind of neutral, you just don't want anything too extreme, even with the highlighters, like, you know, I think a little bit of a gold hue would look. You know, obviously, it's probably better on an olive skin, but both of them would work. Okay. All right, because you just want them there. You want it to be a hint of it. It's not going to be a big,

Amy 22:03

right.

Speaker 3 22:06

Here's the thing. I don't ever want to look at a face and go oh, highlighter, huh? Blush you got, like, I don't really want to know like, oh, okay, there's like 17 products going on right there. I just want to go Oh, she looks fresh and doing pretty. And that's that I don't want anything to stick out too much. And I threw that in mind to just keep things kind of just natural and pretty and fresh. You'll look fantastic.

Amy 22:37

Back to I just had a question about the bronzers and the blushes. What do you prefer cream or powder? What are your thoughts? They're

Speaker 3 22:45

either good. I think if you you know the, you know, the cream one sometimes if you feel like your skin is dry, then that's kind of nice. It gives a nice little moisture there but you know, you're there. They're both there. They're both good. There's not one that's better than the other.

Amy 23:05

I've been really into creams lately probably because I have dry skin so you're right it like feels good. And I just feel like it looks better. Sometimes the powder I feel like sometimes sets but yeah, because I'm dry so that makes sense.

Speaker 2 23:15

Okay, so then the glowing dewy look we all love it's kind of helps you with the no makeup makeup luck as well. So you obviously drinking and staying hydrated. Do you have some products that you'd love to start the base of the face with to get to achieve that?

Speaker 3 23:30

Well, Vitamin C Serum is really good. I love hacia I like new elastin. I love these products. They're really there's so many great products out there. Sunscreen is huge, huge, huge, and you need to put it on your hands. It's so funny. I was in the desert and I was speaking to someone I think it was my son's golf coach. And he said yeah, women can hide their age in their face but as soon Oh knows with my agent was it my agent was in the desert. We were having coffee and he said you can really tell someone's age by their hand because people don't typically put sunscreen on their hands so their hands really show their age so it is really important to put sunscreen on your hands as well as your face your neck and your chest.

Amy 24:15

Yeah, that's a good tip to remember to put it on the hands I definitely sometimes forget that super important specially when you're driving right because like lay on your hand.

Speaker 3 24:23

How much time our hands are being exposed to heat. I would get a stick one so it's not you know for the car just Just remember to put that in. But it you know, investing in a good sunscreen is really important. Winter as well. I say to my clients, sunscreen is 365 days of the year. I don't care if it's snowing, raining Sunny.

Amy 24:46

Totally agree. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 24:47

we only need to protect you can't protect your skin enough.

Amy 24:50

What's your favorite sunscreen?

Unknown Speaker 24:52

SkinCeuticals I think is one I like

Amy 24:54

yeah, a lot of people say that a lot of people say Elta MD we've got we've got

Speaker 3 24:59

that one too. So yeah, when it's like a little bit tinted and that's what's nice about a tinted moisturizer, and it gives you a little bit of sunscreen, but, you know, like, the found the foundations like Bobby Brown and Nars, they all have a little bit of sunscreen. So you know having that sunscreen and then putting on that foundation that has since you're getting protected, but you do need to reapply we forget. We think oh, I put it on the morning. Well, you're gonna need to put it on and like especially I was walking on this golf course and I didn't have any with me. I broke my own rule. Or my son said Oh, Mom, you broke your own law. I did break my own law. I didn't have to reapply and I could tell my skin got a little bit color which I do not want it to have. I want to control the color on my face. I don't want the sun Yes, it ages you and I'm

Amy 25:48

yeah it's funny Katie and I both love this product reviewed it on one of our shows the some balm. It's like a sunscreen spray like a spread so and it's great because it's a good I ever since I got that product, I bring it with me because it's so much better to like refresh your face with it. Because it's like, I don't know. It's like cooling and moisturizing and it feels good. But then you don't feel like you're rubbing stuff on your face after you have makeup on. So it's like good to just spray. So it's got about that product. But yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 3 26:18

Many great products out there. You know? And what's really cool about like going somewhere like Sephora, they have all those little sample areas or like small set travel size. Yeah, that's a great way to try a new product to see if you like it. That way you're not investing a ton of money.

Amy 26:35

Yes, I'm big into the trial sizes. I just and I it's funny because a lot of the trial sizes I end up buying the big size like it's so smart that Sephora also the all starting to do that because then you're not wasting products and you end up you know, really getting what you want.

Speaker 3 26:49

It's really great. And I you know, I even though I have my own company, and I'm really blessed. It's kind of funny. I'm kind of like two things. I'm a makeup artist, and then I own a company. So brands still send me products, which I love. It's like Christmas I love Yeah. And I love going into Sephora and looking at all the new products. It inspires me it helps me create new products and think of things that I like, you know that I want to try for my own brand.

Amy 27:18

Okay, let's talk about lipstick and gloss. Katie was saying to me the other day she can never find a flattering red. I don't want to read that much. I guess I would if I found one that I liked but it just seems so like, dramatic to me because it's so bright. But once again like no you said there's no rules but like what tends to look good on certain like skin types in terms of lipstick and gloss. Like I always love a neutral vibe. But sometimes I put on color and I like it too. But I just never know like what looks right.

Speaker 3 27:47

Well, I think you know, again, it's the for has little tester, lip pencils. So I'd start with that matte lipstick typically makes your you know drying and makes your lips look smaller. If you want your lips to appear fuller. liner, lipstick gloss gloss help make your lips appear fuller. As for a red, you know, reds are interesting. They either look great or horrible. There's no middle. Oh, I think I a nice blue red looks good. You have to just kind of mix with the colors, like just mix with different colors. And just try it and see what feels good to you what feels comfortable. If that, you know it's one of those things where it may feel really good to you. Like a like a deep burgundy red looks so great on some people and then some people orangey red, I don't really love an orangey red. But some people it looks nice. Sometimes a shear will look better. So it's not such a commitment. You know, sometimes just a big red lip. That's great. I have never worked like I never feel

Speaker 2 28:55

good when I put it on. So that should just be enough to say,

Amy 28:59

No, I know but that luck is so pretty. When I see people do that. I just feel like I can pull it out. You could pull it off Katie because you have like big lips.

Speaker 3 29:06

I agree. I think it's lovely. But you know, here's another thing that I'll do sometimes I will put the lips the liner on the lipstick and then I will get a Q tip and wipe it all off. And it's just stained enough and then I'll put a lip gloss on top and that's like the perfect little amount of red like Nyquil. Too much your lips a bit stained. And the gloss is giving the illusion of your lips appearing fuller. Not too bold and because it's you know when you put in that the red, if you're outside if you make a mistake, again the Q tips good you can get your foundation and kind of clean it up with a brush. But it's no it's kind of a thing. It's a commitment. Commitment, right. All right and doesn't work and that's when you just get some you know makeup oil or wipe a wipe and just wipe it off. Start over. Yeah, there's no reason to get comfortable with how you're looking right? I don't think you have to. You know, you want to love how you look. And then I don't know sometimes it's just in some days, it looks better than other days, just, you know, depends on your mood and what you're wearing. And

Amy 30:17

I know sometimes I have this one. It's like I've had it forever because I never would have this one hot pink lipstick. And the only time I wear is if I'm like getting dressed to like, go out at night to like an event and I'm wearing like all black because for some reason, I just feel like it looks better. And I just looked so different when I wear it. It's funny, but like, occasionally I'll throw it out. But yeah, I never felt comfortable. I just feel like it's so bold. Okay, so we've been talking about all this makeup and putting on makeup.

Speaker 3 30:41

Think about that though. Like I know what you were just saying about that lipstick. But think about if you just put it on your lip and then wiped it off with a Q tip. You still have like a hint of it. Yeah, so it's version of it.

Amy 30:53

I'm gonna try that. I love that idea. That hat. Okay, so we've been talking about putting on makeup and what types of makeup and colors and all that How about taking it off? What's the best way to take it off? What Kind Of Products Do you like to clean your skin?

Speaker 3 31:08

Okay, so I don't care what you use to take your makeup off with. I love almond oil. I have Bobbi Brown told me that once like is this jar like this? She gets it on Amazon. It's like $10.08 or $10 and almond oil. Though I just have that on my counter. I will put like a quarter size on my face. I wipe it all over my face and then I get a makeup white. Remove everything. I can't stress enough how important it is to get the mascara eyeshadow, everything off your face at the end of the day. I cannot tell you how many people come up to me and brag. I'm the last person that you should tell this to rag that you don't take your mascara off. Katie I'm like

Unknown Speaker 31:52

why is it so bad?

Speaker 3 31:54

Well first of all your your lashes need to breathe. If they've got like a you know a chemical on them, you know they're gonna fall out it's just not good for your lashes or your skin. And you can't get like the lashes the mascara on the next day when it's already like thick and goopy. It's really just a really bad habit for your eyelashes.

Speaker 2 32:18

Do you have a favorite eye makeup remover then because Amy was saying she always has a problem with the oiliness that gets in the eye when you're with some of those remembers Do you have one that's not so oily?

Speaker 3 32:28

I like oil so I mean I'm hardcore like I put all you know coconut oil I love I put apricot oil and then I get up why I will do the makeup wise or toilet paper just get off the the you know, major part of it but I always I get these black wash claws at Target like stacks of them and I get wet with warm water or cold and then I washed my face with that every night

Amy 32:56

yeah, I was I use like like a cleansing oil to wash my face that the mascara like never comes off even with oil and then it gets my eyes and whatever but I was saying to Haiti I've been like in the last year on and off trying fake eyelashes or DIY eyelashes because then I don't have to wear mascara and I hate wearing mascara because I hate taking it off because I'm rubbing my eyes and I feel like it's like putting wrinkles on my eyes because I'm constantly like rubbing it rubbing and rubbing it to get it all off. So I've been experimenting but I don't have them

Speaker 3 33:25

I wish like I love how fake eyelashes look and I had like I'm obsessed. But I like my oil on my face and that you can't have both

Amy 33:36

right? Right so with the with the lashes that's what I find like to clean like if I'm wearing eyeshadow I have to like really be careful around that area. It's annoying, but it really makes a huge difference. Yeah, I've been Katie knows I've been practicing eight we're going to do like a whole eyes episode because I have like all these new eye products but I've been trying the ones that are not strips but you put them underneath your eye, which you have to practice but they look really good. Okay, so we're gonna get into our wrap session. Thank you for all these awesome hacks and tips and tricks. I love it. Let's get into our quick wrap session. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Unknown Speaker 34:12

Green Juice

Amy 34:14

good land. Okay, it's funny because we were kind of talking about this earlier on and you were saying with your pretty girl makeup line this is kind of what it's intended to do. But we call this our five minute flow so you just got out of the shower and dried up Uber just alerted you there five minutes away like what's your quick beauty routine? To get dressed get you know, get your clothes on put your makeup on and get out the door like what are those? The holy grails Okay, so you out on time?

Speaker 3 34:37

Um, Vitamin C Serum eye cream sunscreen concealer. I can I can do my face really pretty fast. I could probably do the whole thing in five minutes. So fill in the brows, some liner Datto mascara, I'm out of there.

Amy 34:52

And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Speaker 3 34:55

Well, I just make sure that I I love my life. Okay, let's just start with that. So I live in Nirvana pretty much most of the day. I did you think like, I love to work out I love to my family I you know, I like everything. I'm I'm Disneyland I like everything

Amy 35:10

we did to take some of that I love that.

Speaker 3 35:13

I try to have fun with everything I'm doing and stuff that I'm not too thrilled about. I'll just pretend I do until it's done.

Amy 35:19

Yeah. That's great. I love that and where can our listeners find you give us all your details?

Speaker 3 35:25

Okay, so you can go to Christina flack.com To see what I'm doing on NBC on California live or different photoshoots and pretty girl makeup.com And then pretty soon you will see I'm too busy.com and on Instagram Christina flax makeup and PR e TT YG IRL MK up pretty girl makeup and I'm too busy. We're not up there yet. But I know of my assistant.

Amy 35:50

reserved it. Nice. Yes. So

Unknown Speaker 35:53

and we're on Facebook and Twitter and

Amy 35:56

the things love it.

Unknown Speaker 35:57

Yeah, and tick tock yo.

Amy 35:59

Oh tick tock wants to check out your tick tock page. Well, thank you so much, Christina. This was very enlightening, and I'm gonna go mess around with all my makeup this weekend and experiment and not be scared to do it. So before we close, Katy has a mantra or quote that she is going to close this out with.

Speaker 2 36:16

Yes, I do. So speaking of beauty and feeling good. This is just a little something. Beauty begins the moment you decide to be yourself. I love

Unknown Speaker 36:27

that quote. I think that's great. All right. Well, thank

Amy 36:29

you again,

Unknown Speaker 36:31

you so much fun.

Amy 36:35

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 105 - Hormone Havoc: What are Hormone Disrupting Chemicals and What You Can Do About It? A Conversation with a PhD, Founder and CEO, Jenna Hua, of Million Marker (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 105 Hormone Havoc: What are Hormone Disrupting Chemicals and What You Can Do About It? A Conversation with a PhD, Founder and CEO, Jenna Hua, of Million Marker.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:24] Jenna Hua : You.

[00:28] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters family. It's Amy and Katie, and we are joined today with Jenna Hua, who is the founder and chief executive officer of Million Marker. Million marker is the only DTC test for BPA phthalates. I'm saying that correctly. And other EDCs EDCs are endocrine disrupting chemicals, which I just Googled. Jenna's extensive experience as an academic and health advocate led her to founding Million Marker in 2019, shortly after completing a postdoctoral fellowship with Stanford University School of Medicine. Jenna Hua, PhD, is an environmental scientist who started the company when she realized environmental toxins kept causing her fertility problems. More studies show that prenatal exposure to these chemicals can cause neurodevelopment and hormone issues in children. Plus, these chemicals can complicate pregnancy. Throughout her career in academia, jenna has researched and published numerous studies that largely focused on citizen science, general health, and the impact of food consumption on a person's well being. Jenna holds a postdoctoral fellowship in chronic disease prevention from Stanford, an Mph and PhD in Environmental Health Sciences from UC Berkeley, an Rd from Greater Los Angeles Veteran Affairs Healthcare System, and a BS in Nutrition from Berkeley. So welcome to the show, Jenna. We're super excited to talk to you about this topic. It's really fascinating. So thank you for joining us on Nirvana Sisters today.

[02:00] Jenna Hua : Thank you so much for having me. Amy and Katie, I'm very excited. I really like your show, and I think I really appreciate everything you guys do, really advocating for wellness and optimizing health, particularly for ladies.

[02:14] Katie Chandler: Thank you.

[02:15] Amy Sherman: Thank you so much. So before we get into all of our questions and conversations, we just want to start with our Nirvana of the week, which is a moment of joy, something that brought us a smile to our face this week as we reflect on the week. So, Katie, I'll kick it off to you.

[02:30] Katie Chandler: I would say my moment is without a doubt that we launched our 100th episode yesterday. And while that in itself was the moment of joy, we actually recorded that episode just earlier this week. And that was my real Nirvana, because when Amy and I, we don't too often sit down together and reflect and take a moment to just go through the process of all of this. And when we did that, it was really nice and long overdue, and it brought me a lot of Nirvana, the whole thing. It's a great week. It's a big week. What about you, Amy?

[03:04] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I agree.

[03:05] Jenna Hua : Big week.

[03:05] Amy Sherman: And I would say my Nirvana is the same. I'll also mention that along with our 100 episode, we launched Nirvana Sisters Merch, which is really fun. And it's just great to see people's reactions about all of our products that just launched. So really excited. Really full of lots of mini nirvanas. What about you, Jenna?

[03:23] Jenna Hua : Congrats for me. Thank you. It's about getting one of our grant review back. So at Miller Marker, we also apply for a lot of NIH National Institute of Health Research grant because the whole EDC topic and just in general, how your environment impacts your health there's, still require a ton of research. So we continue to submit grant proposals. We just got a review back, and then it was a pretty positive review. So we're hoping that grant will get funded in a few months. So that was my excitement for my Novana for this week.

[04:02] Katie Chandler: That's huge.

[04:03] Jenna Hua : Congrats.

[04:03] Katie Chandler: That's fantastic. That must be very exciting. Speaking of, I mean, we have so much to talk about because this million Marker is really a brilliant concept, and I think we should just start at the beginning. What does Million Marker do and kind of what motivated you to create million Marker?

[04:22] Jenna Hua : Yeah, at Million Marker, we trying to provide a direct to consumer mailing urine testing, allowing people to understand their body burdens of hormone disrupting chemicals. So it's a pretty simple test. You pee in a cup, send it to us. We get that UEP analyzed. Right now, we test for 13 chemical metabolites. That includes BPA, BPA, Alternative, phthalates, parabens, oxybenzone. All of these are hormone disrupting chemicals. We also ask people to complete an exposure journal before they submit their urine samples. That way, we audit your lifestyle, looking into what actually contribute to your exposures, and then pinpoint where you can reduce your exposures so that you can avoid these chemicals. Then we also offer counseling, answering people's questions to making sure that they're on a healthy journey to detox.

[05:14] Amy Sherman: That's really cool. So is the report that you get, like, you see all the details from your urine and what types of chemicals are showing up there?

[05:22] Jenna Hua : Yes. So the report will include the chemicals that we're testing, 13 chemical metabolites. We let you know your levels, how you compare with our existing users, and how you compare with the national average. We'll show you low, medium, or high and trying to pinpoint okay, for example, what kind of product or what kind of behavior that you have kind of committed that potentially lead to this kind of exposure. So then it's very actionable. So to make sure, then you know what to do so you can reduce these exposures.

[05:56] Amy Sherman: That's great, because I feel like you hear about this all over the place now, right. But it's hard to know how it's actually affecting you. So you can clean up all these things in your house, but you don't really know if you're addressing it. So I think that's brilliant.

[06:09] Jenna Hua : Yes. We think it's this personalized approach because it's really important and also for people to understand what's exactly my exposure oftentimes we don't really know because if you and I have different genetics, even if we have the same amount of exposure exposed to the same thing, our body would respond very differently. So unless you test yourself, there's no way of knowing. And oftentimes also, even for myself, I think I have lived a pretty clean life because since I started studying this and I have been paying attention. But once I started testing myself, I realized there were a few things. There are things that I completely didn't even know about. One example was one of the vitamins I was taken, the vitamin capsule was not made, I guess, up to quality. So the capsule was actually made of a ton of phthalates, which is a plasticizer chemical. And if I didn't test my fulself, I would never know. And I actually bought that vitamin from Whole Foods and it was a bit shocking to me. Another example was when I first started Million Market, I was packing all the kits in my garage. It turns out it was the plastic packaging tape. It was also made of phthalates. So I could see my levels completely went off the roof. And once I stopped taking that vitamin, it completely drops down. So just like things like that you think you're doing right. You just don't know until you actually test yourself to figure out, okay, this is where I can't actually make a change. Otherwise you wouldn't know.

[07:52] Amy Sherman: When you got that back and you learned about the pill and the tape, was it you were high in that certain chemical and then you looked at your ingredients of certain things? Or how did you identify it was those two things that's so interesting.

[08:05] Jenna Hua : So I was able to identify because this is the importance of when we ask people to document their exposures throughout the day. I see it's kind of a tedious work, but that's the only way to kind of help you figure out because these chemicals are literally everywhere and oftentimes all we also tell people we don't want to get people super overwhelmed because it is overwhelming. But that's the only way to kind of figuring out where your exposures are. And then you're trying to avoid as much as you can because the bottom line is that these chemicals have no business of being your body. Like they only do harm, there's no good. So you just need to try it as much as you can.

[08:49] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's what I want to clarify for our listener. What are these chemicals doing to us? When we say they're endocrine disruptors or hormonal disruptors, they're affecting our thyroid, they're affecting fertility, they're affecting your estrogen levels. Is that correct? And so on and so on.

[09:09] Jenna Hua : It's literally everything. We can take a step back thinking about what are hormones like? Hormones are our body signaling molecules. They literally govern every single bodily function we have. Fun, sleep, metabolism, growth, fertility, your mood, everything is governed by hormones. And then your body signaling system, the hormone system, actually work as a symphony. So if you go to orchestra, you listen to a symphony. If your keys are out of sync, this music wouldn't be beautiful. It's the same thing. And these hormones, they kind of work like a lock and key. So the key has to fit in a lock and when you have these hormone disruptor comes in which messes up either the signaling or messes up this whole lock and key function. So then you would have these mismatched things and then you have this whole salute of downstream impact, which could be impacting your mood and your metabolism. So we see people with hormone balance, for example, in female, you would see for example, irregular period fertility issues, same as in men, impact both men and women and weight gains just so many things. And I think the other thing people tend to overlook is that if you expose to these things, you wouldn't experience extreme symptom the next day. Maybe in occupational setting, if you get super high exposure, then you would have feel the symptom the next day. But what we really worried about for these chemicals are like we have these super tiny, like really low dose exposures. You get exposed a little bit, but you get exposed day in and day out. So you just don't know when your cup is going to get full. Eventually down maybe ten years, 20 years from today, you would have a condition that could be contributed by these things. And so that's why we really want people to start pay attention. You do what you can and you want to eliminate these exposures as soon as possible and as early as possible, as much as you can.

[11:27] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I think it's interesting to your point of how you're not just going to wake up the next day and say, oh, I must have been exposed to BPAS too much yesterday. It is a gradual thing that happens over time. And maybe one day you just wake up and you realize like, oh my gosh, I'm not sleeping very well, or this feels off all the time. Or you just slowly start to not feel like yourself anymore. So this is a really great tool. It can be preventative. It can also come in and help someone get things back in order with their life. I find it fascinating. I think a lot of us see things like BPA free and paraben free and so on and so on. I would love to just if you could just quickly list off just a few of those names that we've seen, we've read, we've heard, but we don't know what they are, so that we can now attach them to this and understand.

[12:26] Jenna Hua : Yes. So BPA is pretty much the poster child of hormone disrupting chemicals. A lot of people know because we actually see that BPA free label. But when you ask people like, do you know what BPA is? And people often don't know. They just say, okay, I know it's bad for me because I see BPA free label all the time. But what to pay attention of is that BPA free? Okay, first of all, there's no regulatory agencies actually monitor and check whether a product is BPA free or not. It's completely up to the manufacturer to put that label on, so there's no verification of that, whether that's actually BPA free or not. In Europe, there is regulatory agency to actually check whether this is BPA free or not. And the definition is if a product have less than, say, zero five milligram per kilograms of this molecule in this chemical in the product, it's considering free. It's kind of like the trans fat free labeling. But if you think about an MBPA, often happens on receipts, grocery store receipt, gas station receipts, or the canned linings of canned food or canned drinks. So if you think about it, even if it's regulated at 0.5, that kind of level, if you drink a lot of canned drinks, if you eat a lot of canned food, it's still going to accumulate. So it doesn't mean it's completely free. That's number one. The second is since BPA has been banned for almost more than a decade now in baby products, thanks to conscious mothers. The manufacturers, however, started using BPA alternatives, which is not labeled anywhere. So this could be right now, the most commonly used is Bps and BPF. They can literally swap a molecule and swap, like, a substrate of that molecule, changing the ladder from BPA all the way to BPZ or any combination of that. So it could be Bpaf, BPB, something that all of these alternatives are actually just as toxic as BPA, if not more. So there's just, like, no way of knowing, okay, is this BPA free? Is actually BPA free, or it's involved in other kind of Bps. So our strategy is, okay, just avoid plastics in general, because BPA and phthalates are the major plasticizer chemicals that's using plastic. So if you can't avoid as much plastic as you can, then you kind of just pretty much eliminate this. And trying to avoid canned food, I think in general, in shopping, BPA free label is still better than not having that label. There's a little bit of assurance there. But in general, just try to avoid the whole category if you can. And the shape of the BPA molecule. I think another thing just to kind of ring the bell for people to think about BPA is if you Google the BPA molecule and then you Google the estrogen molecule, they look really, really similar. They look almost identical. So one function of BPA once in getting into your body is it mimics estrogen. So your body will mistaken BPA with estrogen. And if you think about it, if your body mistaken BPA with estrogen, maybe you'll produce less, or maybe it will produce more and they wouldn't fit. So then it's causing other issues and that's why, okay, yeah. Trying to avoid as much as possible.

[16:01] Katie Chandler: You hear a lot about estrogen dominance now, and this is a contributing factor to that, I'm sure. So, yeah, it's very interesting. And go ahead, Amy.

[16:11] Amy Sherman: I was going to say, why are manufacturers using this in the first place? Is it like a preservative? Like what does it actually do? And why if they're not using that, they're using one of these alternative swaps like you said. What's the deal with that?

[16:25] Jenna Hua : A couple of reasons. First is BPA is actually a pretty magical molecule. BPA is a molecule, that the chemical that makes plastic shatter proof. That's brittle plastic and it has property. And the second is, as you mentioned, a preserving function. So by coding that can lining, for example, if you have acidic food in can, it wouldn't react with the rest of the can. And it also preserves food much longer. And it's cheap, it's just really cheap to make. That's why we have been using it, same as thali. So thali is another chemical that we test. It's also a major plasticizer. Thalate is just what make plastic really flexible. So think about your ceram wrap. A lot of time in the past, ceram wrap is kind of like made of phthalates. One tip we often also tell people is never ever microwave plastic. Some people don't know. So heat actually increases the releasing of these chemicals. And before I've seen people like, okay, first of all, they use a plastic tupperware, have their food in there on top of the tupperware, they put on the ceram wrap and stick the whole thing into the microwave. So it's like then you just get a multiple exposures, okay? You get that shadow proof plastic fun BPA, and then you have the CERN wrap fun phthalates. Phthalates are also used in fragrance a lot. So that's another tip that we often tell people, okay, when you purchase your personal care product, your house cleaning product, your laundry detergent, avoid fragrance. Always read your ingredient label. Avoid that because phthalates is a major ingredient that used in fragrance and it's also a hormone disrupting chemical that it actually blocks testosterone. So we've seen a ton of study in both human studies and animal studies that showing phthalates really impact male fertility.

[18:34] Katie Chandler: And will it say on the ingredients list, phthalates?

[18:39] Jenna Hua : So phthalates are usually not labeled on the ingredient list. It's often just fragrance. It's a major ingredient in fragrance. That's why we wanted people to avoid fragrance at all cost, okay? And to be even safer, even if natural fragrance. So we often get questions asking, what about my fragrances made of essential oil? Right? Not saying essential oil is not beneficial, but there's no way of verify whether this essential oil is actually made up to great. And apparently 50% our world supply of plants is only enough to make about 50% of the essential oil on the market today. So a lot of essential oils are actually synthetically made, and there's just like, no guarantee that what's actually in this essential oil. And there's not enough rigorous testing being done in products. So especially, say, if you're pregnant or trying to get pregnant, we always recommend people to avoid fragrance, whether it's natural or synthetic. Just avoid fragrance just to be safe.

[19:53] Katie Chandler: It's crazy that there's no system in place for these things to be monitored. I mean, I realize with the amount of commerce that this country has and it's coming from all over the world, that it would probably be nearly impossible to do. Maybe that's why it is probably impossible to cover it all. But just like with supplements, supplements are not FDA approved. And you have no idea what you're putting in your body with that. When you think it's a trusted source and it's something that's meant to help you, it's not always necessarily the case.

[20:19] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I saw on your Instagram page just around fragrance, that unscented is also a fragrance, which I had no idea until I saw that. And that's really scary because I've been buying unscented forever because I don't like those perfumey smells, and I thought they were bad for you. But now I'm hearing unscented is also a flavor. Can you talk about that a little bit?

[20:41] Jenna Hua : Yes. So unscented is actually a scent wow. To go with fragrance free.

[20:46] Amy Sherman: It's fragrance free. Okay.

[20:49] Jenna Hua : So it's very misleading because I think a consumer have obviously gone smarter because we know we need to protect ourselves because FDA is not doing the job. But manufacturers also got smarter, right? So unscented is one thing, and then they started using wording like aroma instead of like fragrance. So you'll just see like aroma, but it's the same thing. So fragrance free is the best way to go.

[21:18] Amy Sherman: Okay, and what about when it says I was using and I actually just switched all my stuff, but I can't remember a brand? Maybe it's like tied free and clear.

[21:32] Jenna Hua : Interesting one. So free and clear is better than the regular, for sure, because at least less of these ingredients are used. But besides these major kind of could potentially have hormone disrupting chemicals, a lot of the bigger brands, they could also have other problematic ingredients in addition to, say, fragrance. Fragrance is like the number one. We want to people do that. But if you want to go one step further, other things to look for is trying to avoid petroleum based ingredients. Because petroleum based ingredients would have much higher contamination during the manufacturing process that you wouldn't know. Again, without testing, there's no way of knowing. But one really easy way to recognize any petroleum based ingredients is look for these cap letters on your ingredient list. So Peg PPG, like all of these cap letters, are usually made of petroleum based ingredients. So that's something to pay attention off. Another one is we often also flag is to glycerin is usually used many times glycerin is made of petroleum, but vegetarian glycerin is not. So if you have the choice of buying an ingredient with vegetarian glycerin versus the regular, I would go with the vegetarian one because it's less prone to contamination.

[23:04] Katie Chandler: Okay, so this is a stupid question.

[23:06] Amy Sherman: But is petroleum the same thing as petrolatum?

[23:11] Jenna Hua : Similar. They're like a fun source.

[23:16] Amy Sherman: I use every day on my lips which has petrolatum is obviously not good.

[23:21] Jenna Hua : It's the same source I would have choose say if you use a shia butter that's probably better. Say use a little more like coconut oil. I would have choose that, yeah.

[23:33] Katie Chandler: Okay. It's so interesting and I can see how it can be very overwhelming because you can just look around your house and probably see a million. As I'm drinking out of this, I'm wondering is this safe? It can be very overwhelming, but that's the genius behind million marker is that you have this testing and walk us a little bit through the process. If someone sends in their urine, they do the testing, they get the results and then you have the option to do the coaching as well where you will walk through and say let's take this, this and this out of your life, et cetera.

[24:07] Jenna Hua : Yes, in the last three years we have been doing this whole self serve model that people can enter their journal through our app and then submit in the test. We give the people the option if they want to schedule a call after receiving our report, we'll go over the report, we'll answer any questions they have. But what we realized from that model is that people actually want a lot of handholding, even fun just entering their journal items and fun afterwards they want to check in with us. So we're actually changing our service to more of a white glove service that will actually walk you through your journal and then also walk you through your report so people can purchase a kit online in the future. Then you schedule a quick like 30 to 45 minutes zoom call with us. We actually go through your day of your products and your lifestyle with you. Document that, then you submit your urine sample. We take the first morning urine sample because it's the most concentrated kind of urine and then it's also what's being used nationally or kind of a standard. So then we can actually compare your levels with other ascent as well as the national average. Then we get that analyzed. Then we actually audit your lifestyle, audit your products, and when you get your report back, besides what I mentioned before, understanding your levels, we also have a really comprehensive product audit that we point out out of all the products that you're using, actually every single product that you reported that you're using. Is there any problematic ingredients in there? Not just the ones that we test, but any other one that we would usually flag to make sure you pay attention on. Then you will know. So next time you buy a product, then you can buy a better one that avoid these other problematic ingredients. Because we can't possibly test for everything, but anything that have been reported in scientific literature that's potentially harmful, we want to let folks know. So then next time you can vote with your dollars. I mean, ultimately, consumers shouldn't be responsible for these things, but unfortunately, we have to do that. So then we want to let people know. So next time you buy it, avoid these things.

[26:35] Amy Sherman: So do people do this test? Do they repeat it, like on a yearly basis or something? Because I would think you'd want to kind of see, I took this out. Now what am I showing?

[26:45] Jenna Hua : Yes. So we have quite a few, many customers come back for second testing. So then just to confirm what's going on, our goal is we're hoping this could become like a routine test. My dream would be actually see this type of body burden testing, kind of like your biannual dental checkup. You clean your teeth twice a year. And I think this is a really good way to remind people, hey, you need to clean up your lifestyle too. That this is a really nice reminder if you can do this every half a year, just to show, okay, where you are with your body burden and how do you clean up. Because I think this type of testing or asking people to change their lifestyle, it's not only good for your health, good for your body, it's actually really good for the environment too, because, again, you're avoiding plastic, you're avoiding petrochemicals. There's a lot of quite a bit of impact when it comes to sustainability too. So we probably, none of us, and especially people who are trying to conceive and having kids, you don't want to live in a polluted planet, you don't want your kids to live in a polluted environment. Right. So by doing these things, I think it's like many, many wins not only for your health, but also for the environment as well. So I really want to see this become like a biannual kind of test that we can implement in the future. And hopefully this will become something that insurance will cover. Kind of like the biannual dental checkup that everyone will have access to and then start pay attention on.

[28:33] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[28:33] Amy Sherman: And also just how you would do a yearly blood test or twice a year blood test. It's the same sort of thing that you should be doing every time, right?

[28:41] Jenna Hua : Yes.

[28:42] Katie Chandler: I had a question regarding the test results. You said that you compare them to the national average. So then is there an optimal range of where you want to be with these things or do you want to have zero exposure or is that just impossible?

[28:59] Jenna Hua : Really good question. We want to beat people to be as low as possible. There's actually no safe levels. There are no safe levels for these chemicals. The reason we're comparing with national average is to give you some idea of where you are. So how we compare is based on percentile. And so if you are lower than 25th percentile, we categorize that as low between 25th to 75th, that's medium and above 75th, that we consider that as high. But you should be trying to go below or even non detectable below 25th percentile as much as possible. But talking about the national average, there are limitations with this national average. I actually think we're one of the countries that's actually doing really well when it comes to biomonitoring. So biomonitoring means that we have programs that monitor people's chemical exposure through these biomonitoring program. Right now our national biomonitoring program is set through the CDC, through the National Health Nutrition Examination Survey, where they actually screen for more than 200 chemicals. And the ones that we screen is only part of it. The limitation of enhance of the spinal monitoring program is that the government only screens about 3000 people every other year, not the same people year over year. So you can see the limitation. So 3000 people in the entire US. So if you want to compare, if you think about your gender, your age, your ethnicity, what you have like five people look like you in a database to compare of. Right? So that's a limitation. And then the second is because this is a true kind of snapshot of time, because not all the people are tracked over time. There's no way we can tell the same people with these exposures what happened to them down the road. So another goal for million marker is if we have a lot of people doing testing and doing these continuous testing, we'll be able to see the potential long term impact in humans and then how can we improve and then that could be beneficial for the future generations.

[31:23] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's amazing. That's really unbelievably profound what you guys are doing. The concept is really brilliant. I know that you are focused a lot on helping those with fertility issues. So I'm just curious what kind of success rates that people are seeing when they are able to remove these toxic chemicals and things from their life.

[31:46] Jenna Hua : We don't have enough data to actually show clinically, like with hard numbers, whether detoxing can actually help people achieve successful pregnancy or live birth. That's obviously the ultimate goal. And I think this is what we're trying to do eventually. But I think fundamentally, even though we know about the impact of these chemical literally for decades, the National Institute of Health work in general through the government, we haven't really invested in any money in terms of looking at the potential causal impact and how to do interventions to track. Clinical outcome. There was no money in this. It's unfortunate. And I think this is also excuse that oftentimes chemical companies that uses like why are we not banning these things? And then the argument is that oh, we don't have any causal studies because we cannot show that these chemical actually causes that miscarriages causes infertility. We cannot say that, we can only say they're associated when in reality it's.

[32:55] Katie Chandler: Just because there's not enough data that shows because there haven't been studies, there hasn't been enough money behind studies to get it done. Yeah, that's interesting. Exactly, it's unfortunate.

[33:05] Jenna Hua : It's unfortunate. The other thing is it's almost impossible to do this type of study to looking at causal study because you cannot expose to a pregnant mother to these chemicals and observe what's going to happen. Right. It's just unethical. You cannot do it. So our thinking is if we can show by detox, by reducing people's exposure that we can actually improve these clinical outcome and track people over time, then that's kind of like almost like a backward reverse way of proving there are causal impact. Then we can use this to push for better policies and better and more testing. So that's what we're hoping to do. And that's actually the grant I mentioned that this week, my nirvana, we got a good score and that's exactly this type of intervention studies are what we're trying to do to demonstrate hey, this works.

[34:06] Katie Chandler: Congratulations on that. I'm like a research geek so I always look at the NIH and everything. So that's really exciting. That's very cool. I'm excited to see where it goes. I'm sure it's going to be a bit of a process to get it all in motion and everything but we'll be following it without a doubt.

[34:21] Amy Sherman: I have a question about the test too. Do people use this for kids? Because as you're talking I'm like I want to test my whole family. Have you seen other people using it for kids?

[34:30] Jenna Hua : We're being asked right now our thinking is if the parents consent, yes, we can test for kids, but on our website we say 18 and above. But we have been asked whether they can test for kids that we definitely need parents consent. I think a lot of researchers worry is it's hard to interpret the results when it comes to kids and others. We even have people asking about like can we test our pets for these chemicals? It's because we don't have enough data. So in an enhanced database for kids, for adults we have about 1800 out of 3000. The rest of them are kids. But kids it's tricky because kids are growing and their growth status, it could be really different, it could really impact their hormone levels. So if you're an infant versus your adolescence, not only your hormones are different but also your growth stage, your detox system is not fully built. And that's also another reason that we really trying to pay attention on the younger, what we call it, developmental timing really matters. That means the younger you get exposed to the potential detrimental impact these chemical will have on you more. So we really want to start in uterine. Even when people planning for pregnancy, really thinking about it starts with the egg, it starts with the sperm. You should try to optimize your egg quality and sperm quality before you're getting pregnant and also start practicing this healthy lifestyle. And then you carry that throughout your pregnancy. And when your kid is born, your kid will already have a head start living a healthy lifestyle. And not only developmental timing matters. So then in uter, exposure really matters and then throughout the growth stage. But it's also we think it's like you literally get the biggest bang for your bucks because you're affecting literally generations. Because another thing we have observed in research is that these chemical can impact your future generations. That means your grandparents exposure will show up in you. Like your exposure will actually show up in your grandkids.

[36:55] Katie Chandler: Wow, that's wild. That's alarming too.

[37:00] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it is alarming. Okay, so before we do our wrap session with you, we want to get a couple tips that you have for detoxifying your life. Just some general things that someone's listening and they're going, well, what can I do right now, I'm going to do the test, but what can I do? What can I start changing in my life? Do you have some tips for that?

[37:19] Jenna Hua : Yes, absolutely. Number one, figured you would obviously avoid fragrance because I think when it comes to products, anything you purchase, this is like the easiest way to change. Just pay attention on eliminate fragrance, find all your personal care products or your household cleaning products. It's the number one. It's also just the easiest. The second is looking to your kitchen because a lot of our exposure besides products is coming from food. So what are you using to store your food? Right, use stainless steel containers or glass containers. Just get rid of all the plastic tupperwares and all these things. Use a b wax wrap instead of like seren wrap and you can use it multiple times. And again, it's also something really good for the environment and then also help you detox and also think about one thing we didn't really talk about is we have this whole other category of chemicals called persistent chemicals, also hormone disruptors, but because they're persistent, they stay in your body for a long time. One of the category a lot of people have heard is the Forever chemical PFAS. Right. And we want people to get rid of your teflon pens, like change to stainless steel, change to cast iron or ceramic. Because this category of chemicals, once you get exposed to it, literally stays in your body for a long time. You can't get rid of it.

[38:51] Amy Sherman: Wow.

[38:52] Jenna Hua : Again, if you change your pots and pants at home in your kitchen. You don't need to change again for many years in the future. Especially if you use a cast iron you can literally pass on to your kids. So you just need to do it once. So this investment is very much worth it. So we want people to, hey, do a kitchen detox that get rid of these things and do it once. Then again, you eliminated a lot of these exposure. And the next thing is try to get a water filter. Any filter is better than no filter. But if you can have your hands on a reverse osmosis water filter, that's sort of a cash at all filter. Because our water is also contaminated, let alone sort of the city water system. Now we're also having a lot of household buildings or even new buildings that changing copper pipe to PVC pipe. PVC is a plastic that's actually not good. There's a lot of argument like why we even have this policy changing it. But I mean, that's worth a whole other chat. But having a water filter is really important because you're drinking water all the time, right? And then the last thing is try to eat out less, eat more at home. Because first of all, you have fully control of what you're cooking, what are your ingredients, try to eat as much organic as you can. I know there is budget reasons for many people, but if you can try to do that because pesticides, many pesticides are also hormone disruptors. So if you can do that, that would be great. And eating out less also helps you eliminate a lot of, for example, less packaged food or eating less at the restaurant also helps you avoid. Because another thing we found out is through some individual testing is if you eat out in restaurant, oftentimes restaurant will cook with gloves. Those rubber gloves are also potential contaminants that can potentially contaminate the food. And you don't know, they will probably put like a hot soup in a plastic container and they will use other things. So you would just get that exposure. Even the takeout container is also a big one. I was just thinking that during the pandemic we literally see people's levels spiking out because people are eating so much takeout. So if you're eating at home, you have full control over that. So I think that's my top tips for detoxing.

[41:34] Katie Chandler: Yeah, those are excellent. That's excellent.

[41:36] Amy Sherman: So helpful. And for our listeners, I saw, we saw in your website you have an approved products list, which I think is really helpful. I actually went on it this morning because I just switched over to branch basics for all of my cleaning and I saw it was on your list. So I was like, okay, yes. So I thought that was really helpful. So for our listeners, all of those things are really helpful tips. And then if you go onto the website, you can also get a sense of what products are recommended by Million Marker. So before we get into our wrap session, where can everybody find you?

[42:07] Jenna Hua : Please find us on our website, www.millionmarker.com. Sign up to our newsletter. We're trying to keep people posted regarding our progress or any new research, any news around these topics. So sign up. We're also pretty active on social media. Instagram just million underscore Marker. Also Twitter. We trying to generate a lot of education content, not just around Detoxing, but anything same as you guys, anything that comes to do with wellness, because you can't just Detox. You literally need everything else in check to help you with Detox and support your healthy lifestyle. So talking about nutrition, talking about physical activity, talking about stress, talking about gut health, everything. So we're pretty active, and we're trying to generate good content to support people for their healthy lifestyle. So definitely check us out.

[43:07] Katie Chandler: Love it. Thank you. Thank you for everything that you're doing. It's such an amazing company and business and everything that you've started. So we're grateful that you're here. So why don't we kick off with our wrap session because we are very curious few things. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack aside from Detoxing and everything?

[43:30] Jenna Hua : My hack, I guess, is like soup. I make soup almost every day, all kinds of soup, partially because I think it's very soothing. And then the second is water is also really important for Detoxing. So you kind of need a lot of these transient toxins that we test, and then we talk about you literally pee them out. So you need water and also think, like, you have to have enough water for good skin health, too. So it obviously have to do with your health and obviously have to do with beauty.

[44:08] Katie Chandler: Yeah, absolutely.

[44:09] Amy Sherman: That's a great one. What's your favorite soup? What's your favorite soup that you make?

[44:14] Jenna Hua : Any soup is good soup. I make simple vegetable stock or to meat based stock. I do a lot of that, and I try to learn from, I guess, different cultures. I'm Chinese, so there's a big part of Chinese culture is also super into soup. So it could be meat stock. It could be like beef and then like bone broth. A lot of bone broth.

[44:37] Katie Chandler: Love it.

[44:38] Jenna Hua : But I also love Italian soup, veggie, and I love chili, too, so it's not exactly a soup, but I kind of feel like that's kind of like a soup.

[44:49] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it sounds good. You're getting me in the mood to make a good soup, too.

[44:52] Katie Chandler: I know I have. Okay for breakfast.

[44:57] Jenna Hua : Yeah. Savory broth breakfast. I love savory. Breakfast was like one broth.

[45:03] Amy Sherman: Okay. The next one we call our five minute flow. So here's the scenario. You just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you. They're five minutes away. What's your quick beauty routine? What do you do? Like, what do you put on. What are your Holy Grails? To get ready and into that car on time.

[45:21] Jenna Hua : I go pretty easy if I don't need to. I don't really use makeup or cosmetic or anything. I just use a face serum. That's it. Like some oil. Really easy. Yeah, one pump, put it on that's, it good to go.

[45:37] Amy Sherman: What kind of oil do you use for dying to know what oil you use?

[45:41] Jenna Hua : So recently I was working with this brand called Hue and Grace. They're pretty cool brand started by Ben and Sarah. They had quite a bit fertility struggle themselves and they trying to provide a hormone save product. Recently I have been using their product. It's quite easy, really, like their face serum and night serum. So I've been using that. And in general, it was also through some of the testing we've done and also just looking into products. Using oil is much better than using lotion because of the simple ingredients. Usually if you get an oil, you can do as simple as very few ingredients. So when you have fewer ingredients, there's less contamination. And the formulation wise, it's a lot harder to formulate, say a lotion versus oil because then it requires more emulsifier, like surfactants and all these other things into lotion. So that's sort of like also my sort of rule of thumb when it comes to products, it's just like as simple as possible and put it on easy and then get going.

[46:56] Amy Sherman: Nice.

[46:56] Katie Chandler: Yeah. I love it. All right, and our last one is how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

[47:03] Jenna Hua : Exercise is pretty important. I think a work is really hectic. I mean, everybody's life is very hectic these days. Being able to do some exercise is really important. I try to do yoga almost every afternoon. That kind of get me relaxed and also really prevents my back pain. Before I started doing yoga, I literally had a really severe back pain episode that I couldn't walk for three days. Like, literally couldn't walk for three days. Wow. And then once I started yoga, it hasn't happened once, and it's just really beneficial, I think, for both mind and body, especially for ladies who are over 35, you start losing muscles, and strength training is quite important. And I felt like yoga is not only you get that Zen, but you're actually training. You actually get this strength training. So it's like very cost effective and very efficient. I also try to do quick run in the morning just to get a little bit sunlight, get a little bit fresh air. That helps with productivity. So these are the two things I try to do. But I have to also say that it's always a struggle. You often feel like you want to be lazy and don't want to get out of bed and don't want to go to your yoga class. It's a struggle. But I think once I'm there and once I do it, I felt like, yes, I need these things to achieve my daily in the mana.

[48:35] Katie Chandler: It's absolutely I know people don't too often go work out, and when they leave, think like, oh, I wish I didn't do that. You always leave, right?

[48:47] Amy Sherman: That's so good. Well, thank you so much, Jenna, for joining us. This was really eye opening and really fascinating. And we might have to have you back for part two because I feel like there are just so many questions that we'll have our listeners will have after hearing this. So thank you again. We're really excited to do this test and to start implementing some of these practices. So we really appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

[49:10] Jenna Hua : Thank you so much for having me.

[49:13] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

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Episode 102 - Lymphatic Bliss: The Ultimate Detoxifying Massage With Erika Tempro & Mimi Ge (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 102.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Unknown: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we are thrilled to be here with two amazing people. We're here with Erica tiempo who is a practitioner of holistic medicine who has been practicing massage since 2007. After a successful career career sorry, after a successful career working in both clinics and spa setting, she opened detox massage right here near me in North Bethesda, Maryland. And I've been to Erica as well as her associate and amazing practitioner Mimi, many times, highly recommends and I've been begging her to come on the show to talk all about lymphatic massage because I think it's so incredible. And I think a lot of people have been sort of hear the word but they don't exactly know what it means and how it can benefit them. I know I've been telling Katie next time she comes here she's got to see either Erica or Mimi, because it's so healing. So anyway, welcome to the show. Erica, we're so excited to have you here. For our listeners, Erica has a wealth of knowledge about the body through her experience and studies from her bachelor degree in physical therapy she obtained in Brazil, she does all types of different massages, but specializes in lymphatics. So welcome to the show, Erica. And welcome to the show. Mimi, we're so glad to have you both here chatting with us all about massage, one of our favorite topics.

Unknown: 1:50

Thank you for having me on. And maybe it's a pleasure to share some of our knowledge about emphatic drainage, we love what we do. And it's truly a pleasure for us to to share, right. And I mean when we do and having clients every day learning about this feeling better and healthier. But love seeing results. Yes.

Amy: 2:14

Amazing. So before we start, what we'd like to do in the beginning of the show, is to do a, what we call our nirvana of the week was just something that brought us joy this week could be something big or small, but something that put a little smile on your face. So I'm going to kick it to Katy to tell us what her Nirvana the week was.

Unknown: 2:35

Thank you, Amy. I'm sitting here racking my brain.

Amy: 2:39

I know it's been it's been a week. It has been

Unknown: 2:41

an absolute week. You know, there's I mean, don't get me wrong. There's been many Nirvana's this week. But sometimes they kind of just like slip into the back of their brain on a late Friday afternoon. I I think I actually just had a really nice little Nirvana and nice moment with the lovely woman who's now become like part of our family that helps me with our children. She's are up here and she's she's become part of the family. And I've noticed that she's kind of struggling this week, like the rest of us for some reason. That seems like a weird week, all around. And we just had a heart to heart and I just kind of wanted to tap into like a she Okay, and what's going on and you know, just sitting down with her and making sure that everything is fine. And that she's it. It's just like a bonding moment, I guess when you know, which is a little Nirvana, especially for someone that is new to your family. She has been in our family for just a few months now. And we have a great relationship. So I think I think that was a nice moment that I just had, it was literally in the last half an hour. It was again at the sweet it's nice.

Amy: 3:44

Yeah, to have a connection moment. Okay, so mine is kind of funny. So my little son, my little he's 13 My younger my youngest son, Jules key. My my husband and I had an event at my son's school the other night and we were out for like an hour we came home and we came home at like eight o'clock. It was early, but I walked into Jones's room and he was like, sound asleep. Like he just was so tired. I guess he had sports that day, whatever it was, he was tired. And he was asleep. And I was like, okay, whatever. He ended up sleeping all night long. So he probably slept, I don't know, like 13 or 15 hours or whatever it was, and he woke up in the morning. He's like, a slept so much. Last night. I feel amazing. And I'm like, See, I told you when you sleep good, you feel good. And then your whole day is better. And he just like clicked for him. Because you know, teenagers, they never sleep. They're doing their thing. And like, he'd like all of a sudden realize the value of having a good night's sleep, which I always tell my boys all the time. So it's just like a funny, cute moment between him and I. So that's one of my Nirvana's from this week. What about you Erica and Mimi, we'd love to hear what brought you joy this week?

Unknown: 4:53

Oh, wow. I have two daughters. One it's 15 and one, two and a half. So this week was truly special. You know, like it's a little thing, but my little one, she just decided to do her on potty training. Who's doing great is a Mama Mama and each Oh, where she was going to the toilet. So it's a truly special moment. Wow. Yeah. What about you Mimi, I was just telling Erica that yesterday actually last night, my mom was complaining about stomach ache. And I live with her and I take care of her she's a bit outwardly. And I use lymphatic drainage technique on her and help her with stomach

Amy: 5:43

healing. Okay, so let's get into it. Tell us about lymphatic drainage massage, what it is, why it's beneficial, all of all of that stuff,

Unknown: 5:53

of course. So lymphatic drainage massage is a type of modality by the work that helps to eliminate waste toxins of the body, and also stimulate the lymphatic system. So during the massage, we use the strokes we push the fluid towards the lymph nodes, lymph nodes, we have our movement, the body, but we have major groups located over the neck, armpit, barely groin area, and behind the knee. So our the strokes we send to those directions. So occasionally out that fluid, after the drainage crosses the filtration process, it goes back to the main circulation. So one of the functions of the lymph nodes is to drain, remove out the toxins whenever they leave for LIFO notes that tax let's say best selves, but she is Viers cancer cells, they work for us, fine for us, and helps with the immune system. So regulates the amount of fluid we have in our body and also works with the immunologic system. So each time we're under inflammation infection, the sciatic system is helping us to eliminate all those bed cells.

Amy: 7:26

And what Yeah, it does make sense. And I've done it and I know the benefits just because of the way that I feel afterwards. It's very different than like, what you would think about a regular massage. It's very light and relaxing, but it's just it's a different sensation. So why, like how often should someone get this done? Should they do it instead of regular massages? Should it be in combination with regular massage?

Unknown: 7:50

So let's say sometimes you do combine techniques. Let's say someone who likes to get deep tissue works, sometimes going straight to the muscle, which so deep is not the best thing to do. We like to drink first. And then we work more in deep layers of the muscles. So we drain and then by layers, we start to release that tension. So how often should it get on? I have clients we do have clients, they come here every week, sometimes every other week, but I would say at least once a month, why they come here on weekly basis. Sometimes they have chronic conditions such as lymphedema. Lymphedema, it's a condition that helps a lot after breast cancer. So as they remove the lymph nodes, like say the armpit it compromised the paddock system. So it creates buildup of fluids. So men really we find another route to send that fluid. Let's say one side is compromised what we do, we push the fluids towards the health side. So we do have clients that come as you know, once a week, and it all depends of your needs goals, target budget, I'm so fascinated by the lymphatic system, I have a chronic autoimmune disease and I have noticed that just recently, showers always make me feel better. And I know it sounds kind of silly, but I think it has something to do with my limp because I'll be going about my day and I'm kind of achy and my body feels very fatigued. And then I do my dry brushing and I get in the shower and I can be like a completely different person afterwards. I mean, it can really like turn my day, right side up. So it's just kind of amazing to me is that is that just the body holding inflammation in my lymph system is maybe not flushing it out to the best of its abilities. Without a little nudge, it does sound like that. Yes. So let's say the lymphatic system works properly. As we move, the more we move, the more you'll emphatic system will work properly. So let's say, shower, no, during this show do yourself, if I finish, you just thought certain areas of your body's going to release that tension. As we release that tension, you get more blood flow, more likely, you're going to eliminate some of the inflammation, and you get more blood flow more oxygen in your tissue gets healthier, better. So there are like I said, we do have those all over the body. But if you work in those major groups, you know that we mentioned here, let's say over your neck, behind your ears, okay, on your armpit. And sometimes we do that during the shower, like you mentioned. So you're not thinking about you doing that. So naturally, you're stimulating those lymph nodes. Maybe that's why you feel way better afterwards. Yeah.

Amy: 11:16

What about the dry brush? Katie was mentioning, she uses that. And I've used that before. Is that the same idea? Like how does that help? Because I know it always kind of feels like a bit energizing. But what does that specifically do?

Unknown: 11:28

Oh, my gosh, it's great is going to stimulate the lymphatic system, it's going to be very superficial. Okay, we highly recommend you to do yourself. Lymphatic Drainage torching those areas prior there, Dr. prosze. So first, you know, because the river runs to the ocean, imagine how the fluid of your body going upwards going towards your heart. So the final destination of all this fluid comes to above your collarbone. So we suggest everybody to start from here. So as you as you clear, your chest, those areas is going to be way easier to receive everything. So we start right here doing yourself lymphatic drainage above your wallet, Vaughn can below and then you go behind your ears, it doesn't matter if you go clockwise or counterclockwise. As long as you move in those areas, that's what we want is like a very like stretch. So and then you go to your armpit and just move in there, get close to the breast, just show both sides, open up your chest, you feel working for long hours in front of your test, make sure you open up and you stretch your chest, one of the really good technique is that there's a muscle right here, if you just kind of tuck your finger in and kind of grab on it and just move it around. That's a really good tight, very, very effect and loosen up the muscle and the fascia. And that really helps with the drainage. You do that

Amy: 13:17

first you do those, like that's the sorry, that series first and then you would dry brush because that kind of opens you up you're saying

Unknown: 13:26

absolutely. And also besides the dry brush, you can use a washer, a body washes, so this way you can it does help to bring the fluid towards those areas. Let's say you and your leg, you bring everything to the wind. You're going to work on your arm, you bring every change everything to armpit, so but it's the first just open up channels. I have a valid question. Excuse me, it's like this big and it's wooded and it has all of these interesting shapes. And I've used it a few times. I'm more I favor the dry brushing. I don't know why I think it just feels good. And it's fast and it's easy. But and also I did see that like tapping those certain spots is helpful as well like the collarbone, the armpits, behind the knees and the ankles that I saw before I started driving. Yes, you can use your fingers. You can use even any type of brush, you can use it face guasha out those things you can use to stimulate those areas. Okay, as long as we don't put too much pressure. Okay, so that's, that's, that's an important piece. So you do it gently and it does speed matter fast or slow. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter as long as you apply a lot of pressure. Don't hurt yourself. Okay, and it doesn't matter if you go to the lecture the mic just hanging for a few minutes if you feel a little bit tender. Just hanging there in a All children minutes it goes away.

Amy: 15:02

Okay, interesting. And so Mimi, you were just mentioning about helping your mom who had a stomach ache. And I know that I've read or heard that lymphatic drainage also helps a lot with digestion and bloating. And I just know from being in there, every time I come in, I'm bloated and I leave and I'm not bloated. So can you talk about the like, how it helps and what you can expect from a digestion standpoint,

Unknown: 15:25

stomach area gets really tight, because what do we do we sit a lot. And so there is a stagnation. That's why, you know, a lot of people experience slow digestion bloating. So by applying pressure to certain areas, you loosen up the tension, move with a colon to its shape. So you're you're moving toxins, you're you're improving the circulation of blood flow more blood flow more, and if there's more blood flow, the person will move faster. Yeah, that makes sense. I need to try to do what's more in my stomach, because I feel like I'm always bloated.

Amy: 16:07

Yeah, no, it would be so good for you, Katie.

Unknown: 16:12

What is the difference between modeling massage and lymphatic massage, I like to start with drainage. We always start with the drainage, we eliminate the water retention, the toxins or the waste. And after that ingestion becomes more soft. If the tissue not it's easier to mold. So I usually combine a few modalities in order to control someone's body. So the different types of strokes but we always start with the drainage, that's the first thing gets the priority. getting healthier first and being let's say, beautiful, skinnier. The main, the main reason the main function of lymphatic drainage is to be healthier. Yeah, so you can actually you use modeling to kind of like slim down, I guess. And does it help us cellulite? Yes, you can lose after three to four inches in one session, it then can serve the person how much water retention have a lot of people they love to get it down for photo shoot before red carpet. Okay, later, you're not feeling the best. So it's, it's a quick fix. So we highly recommend people to hydrate have lots of water before and afterwards. And in order to maintain the results. Reduce the amount of South Korean processed food, sugar, sugar, and you know, put in makes everybody more inflamed, more bloated. So those are things it's a no, no, if you want to keep up with your results. Yes. And more female have reaction towards wheat than male. That's another thing that I noticed. I think it's really interesting. Yeah, it's, it's interesting that you say that because I was literally just thinking in the last couple of days that I'm going to start eating more wheat again. I've been off of gluten for so long, because and I'm just like, oh, maybe I can introduce it back. But probably not the best idea. You know, we see the reaction disease gluten intolerant, but the same client goes to Europe, and they can eat bread. They can stuff up with their and have no problem. So the way that GMO in this country really? It really mess with our system. Yeah, I have clients, they they cannot have yogurt here. They travel to Italy, they eat it there they are fine. So there is something going on here the way they process the food.

Amy: 19:03

It's so true. Katie, and I talk about that all the time. Because yeah, when you're in Italy, and you have pasta and wine and bread, you feel fine. And you're not bloated. I mean, it's unbelievable. And then here it's like yeah, all of our food is process. It's a problem. Well, this is so interesting. I mean, we could go on and on. But let's get to our rap session. Just to give you guys some fun questions on this. This Friday night. Prior to cocktails, Katie's already drinking her Rosae so let's do it. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack besides lymphatic drainage, the sash

Unknown: 19:39

I always carry my bag, a little bit of almond oil and the little guasha for my face and a few essentially, I love peppermint and lavender. So I always like to have a few drops in my almond oil. into myself, massage relieves the tension of my shoulders, my neck, and my scalp is something that I have all the time with me.

Amy: 20:09

That sounds nice. Good little pick me,

Unknown: 20:12

me, me. Since I'm a much more physical person, I like to stretch. I feel like ah, after I stretch, I feel better, like the helps with my fluid retention, you know, helps me feel better more than ever. So I kind of, I'm gonna tell me a secret. I went to the massages who with me a long time ago, and that she loves baking soda and vinegar she uses for a lot of things, right? Maybe I do I do. I use those cleaning. You know, they the very natural clean. If you put them together, they bubble up and then makes the scrubbing much easier. And I wash my hair with baking soda. And I condition my hair with apple cider vinegar. Oh, wow. To balance it to Yeah. So so it works. I have quite in the hands, you know, feels clean, soft. It's great. Wow, I feel cool, because it has a chemical that pulls more oil out of your scalp. I don't know if you heard it that. But that's the gimmick. That's the thing that they do. So you buy more shampoo. Shampoo all the time. Oh, wow. Yeah. But you dilute it, you don't use the template, of course, you put in the container. And then you know, you add water, stir it up, and then you pour. So it's very, very simple. For me, probably breathing exercises. If I if I try to do breathing exercises, I feel better, more more nirvana. Well, for me really long line. I create a space here that I really enjoyed in here and every day when I have clients coming back to see me and they talk about how they failed after the treatment is for me. It's a moment of joy. Well, that's wonderful. I'm sure you're helping so many people and let please let our listeners know where they can find you and come to see you both for lymphatic drainage massage, modeling, yeah, modeling massage, and all

Amy: 22:31

of it. Yeah, give us your website, your Instagram all the things

Unknown: 22:35

okay do not with as the Marilyn, we have natural far from Washington, just see, our website is www detox massage that CEO, you can easily find us on Instagram, which is detox massage. And the easiest way to call and talk as is through email. You go to the website and just send us an email. And it's truly you know, we really feel thankful blessed to be here and assist all this beautiful patients we have oh, we forgot to mention about the postdoc treatments that we offer. Oh, it's a big thing that we do here right? The full stop you Yes, yeah. So let's say someone gets liposuction or Mommy made overweight some Money Makeover it's a surgery that you know take care of the breast and the belly. So when they go back home they're not feeling the best in a good way to speed the recovery process is getting euphotic Trent edge immediately. When they get here we are able to assist during this process reducing the pain bruises swollen it's a it's a 90 day process the just leave walking way much better.

Amy: 24:03

So thank you so much Erica and Mimi for joining us today and teaching us all about lymphatic we got a little bit of a one on one and I think our listeners are really going to enjoy it and probably, you know check you out on Instagram and read all about you and lymphatic drainage and your content and then, you know go get a massage, get a lymphatic massage and try something new. So thank you so much for joining us. We're really happy to have had you on the show. We appreciate your time.

Unknown: 24:28

Thank you so much, Amy. Thank you Amy.

Amy: 24:32

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to buy

Episode 101 - From Pain To Zen: The Art Of Acupuncture With Dr. Jenelle Kim (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 101.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Unknown: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are welcoming back the fabulous Dr. Jenelle. Kim. Dr. Kim. She was with us sometime last year, episode number 62. She came in and we chatted all about traditional Chinese medicine and her book my Jung Sung, the Korean art of living meditation, which I have heard is doing very well and we'll get into all of that. But just to give you a little insight. Dr. Janelle Kim is a prolifically cited wellness expert that has been featured in Forbes allure, meditation magazine time GMA and more. She is devoted to integrating the philosophy, ancient medical wisdom and expertise of East Asia, with the advancements of modern life and medicine of the West to touch and positively affect the lives of others. Dr. Kim is a doctor of acupuncture, which is what we are going to get into today. She's nationally board certified or biology and our biology, oriental medicine and acupuncture. Dr. Kim completed her extensive training in East Asia and are some of the most respected doctors in the field of oriental medicine, and is the custodian of her lineage proprietary by bung formulas. So much could go on and on and on with your accolades and your accomplishments and everything. But we are so excited we our last conversation, we talked all about traditional Chinese medicine and, and your book and everything. And we were just really excited to get into acupuncture with you. So welcome back. And that's what we're going to do today. Thank

Dr. Janelle Kim: 1:58

you so much for having me back. I also really enjoyed my time last time, and I know we ran out of time. So it's awesome to have a chance to extend our conversation. So thank you for that.

Amy: 2:08

Good to see you. We've seen your quoted recently, Katie found the article, I think it was in Forbes and the New York Times and I think it was about your book. So we'd love to hear how the book is and what you're seeing.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 2:20

Yes. So grateful. It's been a little over a year now it launched January 11 2020 2am. I getting all these numbers straight. And that is I believe soon after is when I spoke to you both and it has it's done very well it is in 10 different countries and different languages right now, which is really, really special. That really meant a lot to me to know that so many people around the world are resonating with these principles don't pass down my lineage for so very long principles of the Dow and mindfulness for all of those who may not be familiar. And last week, yes, it was number one on Amazon, for mental health and spirituality. So it just means so much. One of my greatest wish, in short, is that these principles can be applied right away. You know, it is about I call it living meditation, as we talked about last time, so I don't think we have to get so far into it unless we wish. But you know, we hear so much about meditation now, which is amazing. 20 years ago, if you talk about meditation, people would look at you, you know, kind of blank stare. And now it's the best thing and I'm so grateful for that. But these principles, the medicine, the movement, I call them, the three pillars are things that have been passed down by our ancient sages masters from these ancient practices, and they all hold a similar principle. So whether it's from India or Korea, you know, the it's the cultures and the people who have been in existence for so very long, and the ways with which we can incorporate tools that can help us everyday no matter what's going on. And I call them the three M's. So acupuncture fits in that as well, or Balaji. It's the medicine pillar, movement. And meditation, which is a living meditation. Meditation is every moment of your day. It's not just when you sit down to meditate or, you know, do certain practices, it extends truly that kind of thinking it's a training. I've started to call it actually a training, not just we train our bodies, I moved on to start to really embrace that we of course, train our minds. But furthermore, I believe, very strongly, we also train our spirit, not that we are able to train our spirit, something I've been thinking about a lot because it feels that was very active and dynamic. And that is what living meditation mean, Jung Sung, the book and the principles are all about as we have to constantly it's a constant. And if anyone thinks it's not, you know, I have news for you, whether you like it or not it we have to constantly be a part of that. And so when I say train your spirit, your spirit is there, you know, and that can be a whole other conversation. But we have to train ourselves to connect to that, you know, that's when we start to feel disconnected from ourselves, Mind Body Spirit, disconnected from each other, disconnected from the universe, nature around us. So that's kind of why I believe it has started to spread These principles in such a way I know how much they helped my life and what I've seen my entire life. And yes, I'm really grateful in the last year that people are finding it helpful. The best thing I hear is when people come to me and say Dr. Kim, Janelle, that just made sense. It made sense. And it's helping. That makes me happy.

Unknown: 5:17

That's amazing. I'm so happy for you with all this success. And I saw that you're doing a lot of retreats and you're and you're teaching us and you just did something with the Diane Von Furstenberg with her Was it her daughter that

Dr. Janelle Kim: 5:30

granddaughters? So I mean, it's so amazing. She is such an icon, Diane Von Furstenberg, someone I've always looked up to just such an inspiring woman and really cares. And she started this platform, if you will, this community called in charge, and it's really neat. So you'll have to check it out. And it was the very first wellness day. And we opened with young son moving meditation, which is one of the three pillars that movement, but it incorporates the principles, the philosophy and the movements based in Chi Gong, right. And so similar to the understanding of acupuncture, Qi, Gong, martial arts, even yoga, they may speak of it a little bit differently. It all, how can I say it all, as a way to make flow through your meridian? Right? Your body to make everything function properly. And that's the ultimate secret to everything, right? Youth health, life. And so those movements such a neat thing, actually, I just was in New York, and was part of the international aesthetic spa and cosmetic conference, I ECSC. It's one that I went through 20 years ago, when I first started in the beauty business, right? For those of you who do not know, I formulate products, you know, based on the herbal medicine that's been passed down. But it was so excited, citing because it was one of the first places I ever spoke 20 years ago on formulation and medicine. And this time when I was in New York, it was just last week, I believe, maybe two weeks ago, I can't even keep track, I presented the movement as part of beauty and wellness. So it's just such an amazing thing to see, that are part of the world, the Western culture and society are really starting to embrace this. And I know it's going to make a huge difference in people's lives at a time where I think we all agree it's very needed. So absolutely.

Amy: 7:08

Yeah, absolutely. And I also really liked how you said in the beginning, that it is something you need to train, and it's not something you just do one time in your day. It's like an intentional practice. And I think it's hard to do. And I think it's good to remember that you're like constantly training muscle. To think in that more, I guess, intentional way. With all that being said, I know last time we touched very, very briefly on your acupuncture background. And we want to hear all about that, because we haven't done a show yet really to break down acupuncture and what it is how it's helpful. And it's you know, I've done it personally before and I think it's really helped me but I think for our audience, they'd love to understand more about acupuncture just generally speaking from like a really basic,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 7:56

absolutely. Well, I love that, that that you say the basic standpoint, because it can get very complex. And that's all good. And for certain of us that's very important to know our whole lives. We study this and you could spend lifetimes, right? But to me, those basic ways of understanding are the principles. That word I probably think about the most in my entire life and that but that's so important, because that's the way to understand our bodies. So yes, let's talk about acupuncture, how it works. But I encourage everyone while hearing this, well, however, I'm going to explain it right now. Whatever comes naturally and feels like it's resonating, but to also apply that in knowing our bodies every single moment because that it's the same thing, right? So one of the ways that my teachers taught me that I thought was a beautiful way to explain because you can kind of break it down and Eastern medicine. There's even when you get like I am nationally board certified in oriental medicine, it's funny you can you can do just acupuncture, you can do just herbal medicine, then you can do Oriental medicine, I think it's still this way and spend some time but when I studied and got my license however many years ago now that's the way it is. And so it's important to kind of understand that because I come from a lineage of apologists, and there is something in Eastern medicine, I say Eastern or Oriental medicine, it's all kind of interchangeable. It's all rooted in Chinese medicine. It came from China, but then even herbal medicine and acupuncture went to Korea, for example, Japan, and those practitioners, those ancient doctors, many of them very well known, such as Hojun in the Korean, you know, medical history of Eastern medicine, they took herbal medicine and advanced it, they took acupuncture and for example, Korean medicine is known for hand acupuncture, which is something I practice when I practice acupuncture, right? Japanese have a different kind of acupuncture, but it all is rooted from China. Okay, so I think that's important for some people to know what is the difference, but it all stems from the same principles. So when you go to East Asia, there's kind of this may be spoken about maybe not that there's acupuncture and herbal or biology, right. So you have the herbalists and you have the acupuncturist, in our society. I have noticed it's very it's more mixed, you still see that A lot of acupuncturists practice acupuncture and have some herbs and the herb ologists. It's seen in our society as well. But I like to kind of look at it that way, because both are very important, right? And then the way to understand acupuncture, in comparison to or in synergy with herbal medicine, is that herbal medicine is like the gas if you're a car, it's the gas, right? You need herbs, you need supplements, including food, to nourish ourselves to supplement we have to have qi and blood, right? It all comes down to this. Everything comes down to I'm pretty certain we talked about it last time, whether it's the medicine, the movement, the philosophy, everything in our life comes down to the yin and yang. And we could have a whole week of sessions, podcasts on that. But to break it down, First comes the Dow, the universe, right then is yin and yang, night and day. Yin and Yang is shown throughout every aspect of our life. That is the training, if you will, if you think about it this way as well, constantly balancing we use that word all the time. But what does that mean? So I'm gonna go into how that how that relates to acupuncture. But to start kind of from square one, there's even young, like I said, night and day, feminine, masculine, loud and soft. So you see young is also chi, right? So Young is movement, it's more, it's bright, it's light, it's loud, where Yin is your blood, your body fluids, for example, it is feminine energy, it is more quiet, you know, it's more complex. That's the truth in many ways. And so just as we see that in the nature around us, we start to see that in our own bodies. And what I love the most about Eastern medicine and acupuncture and herbal medicine, is that when you when I first started learning, one of the things I loved so much, that was a very special teacher, Alex to bear, he was very well known in the eastern medical community. He was amazing. And I remember him very much saying what resonated with my teacher growing up my father, that 1000s of years ago, they didn't have books. They couldn't study that way, how these ancient doctors, neurobiologist and practitioners understood the human body as they looked outside, you know, to some extent, right. So I'm very much simplifying this, but they saw the way that the trees grew the way the rivers would have flow. And they started to think I wonder if our bodies work in the same manner as what I'm seeing around me. And that's exactly the best way to think of it. And it's my favorite way to think about it. So that is what I like to share. So if we think of yin and yang, and our bodies are made of all of our internal organ systems, our muscles, our joints, you know, circulatory system, nervous hormonal, all of the systems within our body, as I just said, the Yin aspect of the yin and yang duality are the body fluids, the blood, especially for women, we're blood beings. And in general, men are more cheap. It's by nature, you know. And so it is very important to have enough right to supplement ourselves, and then flow properly throughout these meridian systems. And acupuncture uses meridian systems in our body to manipulate the flow of Qi, to make sure that our organ systems are fed to make sure that our muscle joints are working properly. And so if you start to picture to some extent, we all can picture the circulatory system, we have an idea that our veins or arteries run throughout our body in specific ways. Well, the same thing happens with meridians, you can sometimes hear them as channels, right? The acupressure acupuncture channels or meridian system, there's 12, primary eight extraordinary, I'm telling you a little bit more than maybe some may want to know. But that's important to know, I'll tell you why in a second. So you have 12 meridians that run through your body that connect to all of your organ systems. And your organ systems are also once again, going back to that yin and yang separated into yin and yang categories, there's ones that kind of very simply put, create chi, and there's ones that break them down. For example, in the the your the way your digestion, your middle functions, which in my humble opinion, and many in western Eastern medicine, your digestion is everything your gut is everything. You have your stomach and your spleen and Eastern medicine and they work together. Same in western, but an Eastern literally the spleen is yen and the stomach is young. And the stomach is in charge of, for example, breaking things down. Okay, that's the young, the actual load, the active, and the spleen is Yin. And that is in charge of taking all of the good chi, all of the good energy from the things you eat the air you breathe. So that's a simple way to maybe visualize how this works. So then you have meridian systems that connect, you have a meridian system for your spleen, you have a meridian system for your stomach, your liver, your lungs, and they all connect. So maybe some of you have even seen or it might be interesting, you don't have to study it or anything but one day just Google, you know, meridian system and see how how it runs throughout your body. And so it becomes that much more of a clearer understanding, I hope of how acupuncture and herbs and movement and the way you eat and the way you think start to affect the systems of your body. So the meridians run from your fingers all throughout your body, your head, your toes, I brought up the extraordinary channels. We don't have to go into all of them. But there's two that are so important, right and it's important because we can be aware of this in our daily life, one of them the Ren, the Yin vessel, the Yin channel runs down from the top of our head all the way down in the front, right? Okay, and do goes down in the back. And so one is the yen channel one is the Yang Channel. And on those channels, they're so special. There's literally points that connect to every one of the organ systems, right. And so you can see this a bit in other meridian systems, but it's very important, particularly in these channels, you start to even see chakras, right? For those of us who understand more of either Vedic or yoga, and how there's different chakra as well, that also starts to make that much more sense when you start to understand certain channels of energy of chi that run throughout your body. So I should have mentioned, chi is a huge concept that again, 20 years ago, I brought this up, people would be like, okay, Janelle, let's not get weird here. And now, everybody wants to talk about chi, thank goodness, because it's a part of our life. She is vital energy. If I did not have chi, I wouldn't be able to sit here and talk to you right now. I'd be like a blob just sitting on this chair. Well, that's one way of looking at it's the action, right? And so going back, so we have these meridians systems. And if we think of it as river systems, just like we see a nature that run throughout our body, we will have to make sure that there's constantly flow. So what do you need to have that proper flow so that everything is fed and nourished properly, a you have to have chi, you have to have blood, so a supplement health, vitality, and that comes once again, from thinking properly from eating properly from taking the proper supplements, herbal medicine, proper formulas that I talked about a lot, not just anything, because you heard it on tick tock, many great things that come from that, but you know, know the difference or educate ourselves. And so we have these meridian systems, we have to have enough gas in our car. That's why I was going back to so to kind of switch back to that for a second. My teacher once taught me that acupuncture and herbal medicine, herbs are like the gas in your car. And acupuncture is like the starting system, right. So it's like it starts your cart pushes things through, it helps to activate different acupoints. So now if you picture you have meridians in your body, you can imagine that by putting a needle or even pressure right or even movement, or now you know something that's not so much that I'm as familiar and expertise with is Reiki or different energy healings, many people are becoming more aware of you can stimulate going back to acupuncture, acupressure, certain points along these meridians systems, where, you know, this point is known for headaches. And so people will come with horrible headaches. And they will press large intestine for and you can feel it, it's kind of right between your thumb and your point your finger and right in between that web. And oftentimes when especially when you start to feel points, and she'll feel a little hole sometimes where you feel something catch. And if you start to feel even if you take that hole, Pat and start to just rub it, it's a little sore, right? Usually for most of us, well that directly that's a huge point. It's like a door, if you will both sides and on your particular when you start to touch it and people have horrible headaches, they it's like magic, like all of a sudden, oh my gosh, my headache is gone. Or when you have trouble breathing, one of my favorite points is right on the chest, right. So if you take two fingers right on your sternum, kind of right in the center, not two fingers, let's use all of them, makes you make sure to hit the point. And you press there and then kind of with a downward motion, because now we're thinking of chi. So for example, when we get heavy in the chest and can't breathe or anxious, and you start to feel that energy build, you know, you can catch yourself before you get there by feeling chi. That's why I love to talk about these things, you have to feel it yourself first. So even in those moments, you breathe in through your nose out through your mouth, and you press kind of downward on your sternum, that can also be a really sore point. But there is no one I have met who does not like that point being touched and that that basically supports and directly connects to your heart. They call your pericardium and Eastern medicine, your upper, your upper Zhao, and so it helps to direct chi. So these are the ways in which you can see that different points along these meridians systems start to affect the flow, right. So again, if we're river system, and the ultimate goal is to now have qi and blood flow through these systems properly through our circulatory system as blood chi through the meridian system, when we start to get sick from aging, normal process, when we get hurt, right from from a virus bacteria or we fall and we hurt something what happens is, if you picture these river systems, literally you've just you've just damaged that meridian system, right damage might be a strong word, but you've affected and so what can happen is whether it like I said, whether it's just normal process of aging, whether you have a stomach condition, whatever that looks like, here's your meridian, and now all of a sudden, over time, the sticks from the river, the dirt, the sediment, maybe some trash that has gotten into the river system starts to build up and you start to have blockages and so when things can't flow, it becomes stagnant. Stagnant is the number one bad thing in our life. In very simple terms, stagnation in our thinking stagnate You know, in our life, you have to have that flow. And so what happens is when you start to have blockages anywhere throughout your body, it's going to start to affect you. And you may not feel it right away, right, that's when someone has sprains their ankle, and they work through it. And they don't do acupuncture, they don't use certain formulas to help the body heal, for example, certain movements, and they let it be, and they believe that it is that much better. And 10 years later, now, for some odd reason, not so odd when you understand that this way, now their ankle, either having really bad arthritis, or you know, it's giving out a lot or they're losing strength. Well, it's because that area was never healed. It's that simple, right. So everything has to just constantly have that flow. So in conclusion, one of the best ways that we can do so is through herbal medicine to to fill ourselves up to nourish ourselves, but the herbs also have so many functions, of nourishing of breaking things down of detoxifying all those things. And acupuncture can do the same through different acupressure points through different systems of acupuncture study, and understanding. A practitioner can use needles on any one of these points in the way that they know that they're going to affect your body in a positive way. And it starts to open things up. And in the end, when people always ask, you know, Dr. Kim, what is the secret to youth to beauty to health to wellness, I always say it comes down to two main things, which is function and flow, everything has to function properly. And when we feed it properly, with all the things I just mentioned, so we're nourished as beings, that makes everything function properly, our body is miraculous. And if we give it what it needs, it knows what to do most of the time, right. And then you have to have flow, so everything's functioning, and everything's flowing, then you do not have sagging skin, you have a lot less wrinkles on your face, because you're nourished, you know, you don't have as much pain throughout your body. And that's, that's the way of understanding it very simply put. So

Amy: 21:55

it's so interesting, is so cool. I never thought about the meridians, and like the flow piece in that way. So that's a really good visual for for people to understand it. And when you were talking about the blockages, is that also related, you know, you hear so much about inflammation. So like, does that lead to inflammation, when you have blockages, labs,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 22:17

your inflammation and one way of understanding is just your body's way of telling your brain I have a problem, like Come quick. If you look at it that way. That's right formation is right. And so it's your it's certainly an imbalance in your body that's looking for help. So

Unknown: 22:32

I love that you gave us a few small acupressure points or things that someone can do for themselves at home. I mean, I understand the importance of, you know, if you if there's a problem, you should really seek the help of an acupuncturist and everything. But something as simple as being able to relieve a headache with that is is amazing. And it would benefit someone to, to maybe if they're if they're struggling with headaches or something like that, just to maybe Google the meridian system and kind of understand where these acupressure points are just as maybe if they wanted to get their toes wet, and then and then dive deeper and go into acupuncture. So it we just covered that it can affect every system in the body, and can then be beneficial for any and every condition. Acupuncture. Sure, if

Dr. Janelle Kim: 23:22

you look at it, that acupuncture can balance imbalances. Absolutely, it can. Absolutely it can, you know, obviously there's more extreme conditions. But also part of the goal with really understanding our body in this way is to hopefully be able to catch before something bigger happens, you know, a lot of times these things, sometimes it happens and it's just, you know, it's just part of what you have to walk through in this life for a very simple way of putting it. But there are so many times where if you looked a little bit deeper, or you were a little bit more aware of your body, you could have caught something a bit sooner. And we do hear that very often on a very positive note, I felt like something was wrong. I went to this expert, they didn't see it, but I knew it how many times we hear the story. So I kept going, that's an awareness that's knowing your own body. And there's very empowering, you know, and very important to be aware.

Unknown: 24:09

Yeah, and also, you know, something to really consider if you are struggling with something and going through a journey and seeing Western doctors and you're in the process of trying to find a diagnosis or whatever it may be or you just have this concern, it can be a really great time to just go ahead and like you said, try to get ahead of it and start start with acupuncture. And also it's it works equally as well for things like anxiety and depression and

Dr. Janelle Kim: 24:34

everything very much. So herbs and acupuncture can make a huge difference in this. Especially after we all just kind of visualize this together of how everything connects in that way. You know, we because we are again we say these things a lot and one of my favorite things living meditation is to stop and think about what we're saying. Sometimes we all we often say Mind, Body Spirit, we're all aware of what that is right? But when you really think about mind, body spirit, it's that connect it like we are those three things. And so when mentally, spiritually, we feel an imbalance, especially when it's things that are a little bit harder to understand sometimes like anxiety, like panic, right, like depression, you know, I'm saying a lot of conditions right now. But we get the understanding, right? When we feel off that way, we have to remember that we can also affect those things physically, particularly with movement. That's one of the reasons why, you know, quite frankly, I didn't think I'd start teaching movement, this soon, I thought, okay, medicine, then the book will come out and later down the road. But guess what, it's catching on very quickly. And I know that the reason is that even through proper movements, particularly stemming from the internal art of yoga, of Qigong, which is what I very much resonate with, and start to teach. It also, as I said, before, starts to work with your meridian systems. So when you're feeling just like I said, You are aware enough to feel oh, wait a second, I'm starting to feel anxious. There are very quick ways sometimes the quickest is through movement, you know, through movement and breath, I really, really mean that, especially with, with feelings of anxiety, and feelings of grief, or fear, or any of the our emotions that can kind of overwhelm us to be honest, we really do have control over whether we feel like we do at times or not, we can learn to have tools to help us with those things. You know, so it's very empowering. Um, oh, go ahead.

Amy: 26:22

So I have a question that people may be wondering. So when I first went to the acupuncturist they looked at, or actually he did this, like every time I came in, yes, looked at my tongue. So what is that? What is your tongue tell you? Like? Why is that so it seems like that's a standard practice

Dr. Janelle Kim: 26:39

that a lot of the main thing is when you walk in to talk to an acupuncturist, or a bolus for that matter that they should look at, that they usually will look at as your tongue and your pulse. Right. So that's kind of a known thing. And Eastern medicine. So your tongue and your pulse, which shows all the different kind of levels of every organ system in your body, and there's different, so many pulses, to understand what's happening, but your tongue reflects what's happening internally, inside, right. And so different different, like, for example, this is one that people might find interesting, you go, and you look at your tongue, and you you can kind of know certain things yourself as well. So a lot of us will have if you if you look in the mirror, a red tip on the edge of our tongue, and that represents now understand this is different than Western medicine. But in Eastern medicine, we call it Hearthfire. Hearthfire, stems a lot from right, that or can lead to rather is the root of anxiety, you know, feeling of panic, feeling overwhelmed. And that is an imbalance, which, particularly in our society, I have a feeling a lot of us may have. And so, yes, you're, you can map out the organ systems on your tongue. That's what I'm trying to say you there's, there's a map, if you will, a system to feeling the pulse and the different organs. So it basically is a way for the practitioner, the doctor to see and not everyone, you know, everyone's at different places in their in their practice and their experience in treating patients. And that's very, very important. But basically, you can see the internal condition through the tongue and through the pulse. And quite frankly, one of my favorite ways that I was taught since I was I don't know, as far back as I can remember, and just part of natural life. But, you know, without I say, it's funny, I don't notice either in some way, but when you walk in front of me, you also look at everything in that person, their eyes, how that looks, their skin tone, and I'm not talking Oh, you look really, you don't you look, you look really tired note, it's deeper than that you can tell from someone's even their face, what's going on inside. And so it's kind of this hole. So I say if you stand in front of me, I just naturally, accidentally will always close you. And so it's not a conscious thing. But if you ask me, I'm like, Oh, yes, I already know. And it's, it's a really important practice, actually, when you do start to just pay attention. That's the thing that's so beautiful as a practitioner is our responsibility to know that I take that very seriously. But even as human beings, you know, take the time to sometimes sit, quiet yourself, calm yourself and, and really start to study in some way. Not necessarily from a peer trying to figure someone out, but really from just their presence, their feeling, you know, the eyes, show the soul and your spirit. And so a lot of times you'll see when someone you know is not having the best day or is not in a great spot. Something is amiss. That's a very interesting

Amy: 29:26

yeah, I think we noticed that because I mean, I think we observe ourselves in that way. But I think it's almost easier to observe other helplessly like if your kid Yeah, feeling ill, right because they look a little pale or they're like just you could just tell love

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:40

that actually, yes, particularly in our kids. And and let that be a reminder of how intuitive and how much we really do know these things. You know, we can't guess there's also let me be very clear, because I think there's a lot happening in the world right now where a lot of people are sharing things that although I'm very happy, didn't know we were I was going to go here with all of us today, but let's just do it. I'm very happy that people are sharing more in this world is opening, but also let it be known, there might be a lot of information out there that is not correct and not proper. And that does exist, you know. So I'm a huge supporter of people, it's important to know where it comes from. Right? So the acupuncturist, where did they go to school? How long have they been studying, just because they haven't been there forever does not mean that they're not have a certain gift or care or are very much experts in who they are. But there's something that comes with time and experience or who is your teacher and Eastern medicine, philosophy, martial arts, yoga, any of the ancient practices, people want to know who your teacher is. And that's something that in Western society, I have a feeling we're going to start to understand a little bit more, it's going to be important, and a time where everyone is an expert, it feels our code, right? I don't mean that respectfully, but we're talking now we're working with other people use their lives, like you don't mess around with that. Not that anyone even means to, but it's very important to know who you're going to what products you're buying, who formulated them, why did they what did they know? Even your skincare? You know? So I'd say that that is a huge thing that I think is important for people to be aware of.

Unknown: 31:08

Is that so? So those are great tips for helping someone find an acupuncturist locally because it is very readily available now, which is fantastic. I mean, we have multiple acupuncturist and in my little town, so what would you say are? Do you just suggest they just write up find out ask, you know, the questions you just mentioned, how does someone know that they're going to a trusted person? Yes. And

Dr. Janelle Kim: 31:35

it is? That is yes, I love this question. I would, I think it's very important. I wish there was a perfect equation and there is not but thing is that, like I said, there are some people who are gifted, there are some people who even young have connected to a certain teacher or master. acupuncturists are of all ages. So I would start there, where did you learn from? You know, are you accredited? That's very important. I think nowadays, you don't have as much of that as you did. But at the same time, I want to remind us, you know, if you go to the mountains of China, I don't think they're going to show you some beautiful diploma, you know, and so let that be in the backyard seriously, you know, or sometimes even, you know, sharing and educating about herbs. I, I'm a huge proponent of studies and understanding and science, but also something being around for 1000s of years makes a difference. And if you go and try to ask the Korean farmer and the ginseng, you know, a mountain of Korea who's growing ginseng, and he's trying to find it, you ask him, if it's organic, he's gonna think there's something he has no clue what you're even talking about. Remember these things, but going to what you're saying, right? I mean, we have the perspective, it's the most important thing, right? But But ultimately, it is very important is going back to what you were saying, Katie, that you have to find someone who knows what they're doing, period, end of story. And you can find that out? Where did you go to school? How long have you been practicing? Do you have a certain Do you have a teacher? Do you have a route? I think that's really important. You know, it's one way doesn't mean they have to, but if they do have these things, there's a good chance that they're going to very be able to help you in a very wonderful way. You know, the beautiful thing about acupuncture. I feel comfortable saying I check myself of course. But, you know, in general, it's not as hard to hurt someone, you certainly you can don't get me wrong, it's nice to know at least that if you go and try it, you know, it's not, you know, something, if you take too much of a medication, and it's not proper for you, guess what, you're in a lot of trouble. And so someone better not terribly envy, yes, it's not terribly invasive, they can you can feel a little difference with your chi, which is not so great and fun. But you know, it's not the end of the world. So it's worth it to try and also see what people's specialties are. A lot of times, there will be certain people as as it very well should and can be that specialize in certain things specialize in helping with hormonal imbalance helping with orthopedic type of issues and imbalances, digestion, you will find people who just tend more towards a certain condition, if you will, doesn't have to be but but that's always a neat thing, mostly because they have so much experience in that. So that was the next thing. So where did they go to school? What are their their credentials? Right? Very important always. Also, how long have you been practicing? Usually, in general, it's the wisdom of things, right? If someone has been practicing for a long time, it means they've seen a lot of people. And there's something that comes with that. I don't mind that at all, you know, and then you try it, and then you're aware of your own body. So let me tell you, if you go to an acupuncture treatment, it is fine to be relaxed, calm. In fact, that's what you look for. But if you are feeling particularly drained a little off, you know, doesn't mean you go and get mad at acupuncturists per se, but just know okay, maybe that wasn't the most balanced and then also don't give up. Go and try just like you get a second opinion or go go somewhere else. Hopefully you don't even have to get there. But just know that we're all people. We all come from different stages. I'm pretty certain anyone you go to is going to care. I can't. I might be a little naive, but I can't imagine that someone would ever put themselves in that position without caring. And so you know, those are the things you can look got four. So

Unknown: 35:02

and it should yeah, go ahead. I was just, I was just gonna say really quickly that it should be noted, I've experienced acupuncture and I know Amy, you have as well for someone that never has. It's not painful. It's, you know, it can be a very relaxing, calming experience. And, Amy, after you ask your question, I'd love to, at one point get into just some of the benefits that someone should expect. But what are you going to say me?

Amy: 35:26

Oh, I was just going to make a comment. It's important about asking those questions, because which is really good. So at this point, acupuncture is very readily available on campus is wonderful. And it seems like now it's out, there's a lot of, you know, private practices, the person I went to is like a traditional Chinese medicine person. But then there's also these wellness centers, or people that do like chiropractic and physical therapy that have acupuncture. So there, which is like, great, I think, because it's integrating that practice into more maybe traditional ways of healing. But those backgrounds might be a bit different, right, than like the TCM CCed methods. And does that matter? Or is it more just like asking the questions and making sure that they're

Dr. Janelle Kim: 36:14

absolutely, I appreciate you bringing this up, because there is a difference. And let me just put it this way. My master's, I finished everything a bit quick, quickly. But you have to have a bachelor's, first of all, if I remember correctly, don't mark my words, it's been 20 years, and we have to have undergrad school, and then you go to study acupuncture. And when you get your Masters, I'm pretty certain gosh, I should have thought about this first, but it's at least three years, three to four years of schooling. And then on top of that to your doctorate is so I did not finish school until I was what 35 I mean, let's be clear here. Some of the other practitioners out there who want to incorporate acupuncture into their clinic does not mean maybe there's someone who is just naturally gifted and connects with it, maybe they have a certain teacher, and they're not necessarily an acupuncturist. But a lot of people can go to school right now, and spend X number of hours, like a couple of days and have some kind of acupuncture certificate, you know, forgive me, I don't I'm not as into acupuncture oil in this way. But I think you're onto my drift here, that there's a big difference between going and having a couple of seminars, versus this getting two years of study of acupuncture, and that's your, your focus. And that does exist. And that does occur.

Amy: 37:27

And I think that's a really good watch out for our listeners, because you really want to look at their background. So you're comfortable that this person has been studying it for years, and they're not taking like a weekend course and learning how to do because you're right, that probably does happen with places that want to just integrate that in. So it's a, it's something

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:46

and many of them might have, this is the beautiful thing about acupuncture, going back to that understanding of how our bodies work, you know, it could just be that you stimulate a few points and all of a sudden it makes the flow happen and open to the dam, and you feel so much better. So it's not that it won't necessarily help you. But there's a difference.

Unknown: 38:04

That's it's interesting. And so the some of the benefits, I'm just curious, aside from let's say, you go to an acupuncturist for hormonal imbalance, and they help you with that. Does does acupuncture has a whole bullet? Will it do other things? Will it help with other systems just naturally start to balance all of those meridians? Or is it so targeted?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 38:28

No, I would actually it's it helps to the way I treat, right. So I at this point, I was focused more on herbal medicine as comes from my lineage. But in in clinic, when I did treat what I do find moments to treat now and again, and most of the teachers and very, very well known acupuncturist that I am aware of you treat root, right? So that's the whole point of Eastern medicine, you always look at the root. So one thing I wanted to say before is when you walk into clinic, there might be other things that occur and that diagnosis section of your time with with whatever acupuncturist or practitioner, they will feel your pulse, they will look at your tongue, they may do other things. But then there's a series of questions that they go through, that are really important to pay attention to these are things that you as a human being should be paying attention to all of the time. How are you sleeping? What is your sleep light? If you wake up? When do you wake up? Is it you have trouble falling asleep? Or do you wake up in the middle of night? All these things mean something? How you use the restroom? How many times a day? You know what I mean? What does that look like? I mean, it actually gets very specific and I speak no out now more as a doctor, but those things are really important to understand and to keep track of yourself. So that's one way I want to answer your question Katie is it is very much it's all stepped because you look at the root of the issue. Right? And so it very much can treat symptoms as well but different than, you know modern medicine and that it just treats the symptoms and does not always get to the root to try to balance that to begin with. And so when you think of it that way, that particularly a lot of the practice or cuz I know myself included, that you may come with something that you might be so specific. And I'm going to you know, you have you have a rash on your face, right? And I'll start to treat your digestive system. Right, I'll start to treat your middle. Because while you have and with, with the formulas I created as well, that's exactly what happens. You come to me you say there's a certain thing, where is it on your body? I see it for a minute, I can tell what kind of properties is it? You know, is it more internal? Is it something that kind of aggravated you externally all those things matter, for example, but there's a very good chance I will be treating your entire condition, because that is what's going to actually make it rebalance itself, if that makes sense. So when you think of it that way, I would go so far as to say I can't think of one condition that acupuncture and herbal medicine cannot in some way positively affect not one, you know, there are certain things and also I'm a huge proponent, let it be known, this might shock some people. I'm a huge proponent of Western medicine as well, but know when to use it. That's the thing, we can point all the fingers, we want, you know, but at the end of the day, your point one, three are pointing back at you, one of my favorite thing is like you have to know what you're doing. You cannot just go to your experts, they they should have a responsibility. And really hold that very, as a very important thing in life. However, you have to know your own body, like always goes back to that. So there's a time for Western medicine. When you need antibiotics, you go get antibiotics, when an incredible thing that modern medicine we have today. But don't just take antibiotics, because you know, you have a cough. I mean, even modern medicine would tell you now go home and people get mad like, No, that's a beautiful thing that they're teaching you right now. So it's just that balance. But yes, in the long run, pretty much you can treat anything, treat the wrong word, it can help to rebalance anything.

Amy: 41:48

Yeah. So I have a question. For the average person who wants to go to to acupuncture, let's just do a few scenarios. So like I was going for, for quite a long time as it was part of the pandemic, and then everything, you know, I couldn't go in session, but because I have similar migraines, and I found that it really helps with just like balancing out. So every time I'd go, I'd be like, this is bothering This is bothering me, or nothing's bothering it was more for maintenance, which I thought was really helpful, um, added a habit and they issue back however, for that for for someone who maybe has an autoimmune or like chronic condition, is it? Is it a good idea to go to acupuncture is like maintenance? And it's what does that look like? Is it once a month? Is it once a week? And then for other people that maybe just have like shoulder pain or something very specific? Like, what does that look like? Because I know some people could go to acupuncture once and be like, Oh, it did, right? Which is ridiculous. Because they have to you need to go at times in order for it to take effect. So if you could just talk our listeners through that a little bit, I think

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:46

absolutely. So first of all, what you said I love, I love reminding people, including myself, our bodies took this much time to get to have this imbalance, you have to give it a little bit of time to rebalance itself, right. And so. So I think that's a very important thing to acknowledge. And to know, sometimes you can go to an acupuncturist, and within the first time you feel huge difference, and it's lasting. So let's put that out there as well. But yes, it can take a little bit of time, it really depends on every single person, and every single imbalance or condition that you have, you know, and that's, it seems like so redundant, but that's because it's just the truth. You know, so you are with issues with sleep, you may go with, you know, mental emotional type of imbalances, your anxiety, your, you know, you may go with shoulder pain, and it just truly depends on how your body is able to rebalance itself, how open you are to how much how many years you've had this, those things do make a difference. And so there isn't just one way. So it just the mere nature of being human means that no matter what we do, we can eat the very best we can have the perfect sleeping schedule, whatever that is, you can make a point here we can we can live a you know, relatively calm life and all these things will make a huge difference. But the nature of being human means we are getting young, it means we will always have good, but we will always have bad, you know, period if you look if you really break it down. So it's very important for us to take care and maintain. So even if we say preventative medicine, okay, I totally agree with that. But maybe it is just a maintenance of making sure we're constantly nourished and supplemented, and whether that is through acupuncture herbs, because remember, they kind of they, they can do similar things different, same, same but different. But we're so for example, for myself, I incorporate a lot of herbal medicine into my life. I'm a fairly healthy person, I'm very aware and very conscious of how I live, eat all the things. One of the most important I was actually just speaking to a girlfriend yesterday, which I say that you know, with love, and I highlight that because sometimes it's the people closest to you that you don't really have these conversations because it's just the nature of humanity and how we relate to each other. But we gotten to this conversation and I mentioned to her I think maybe the most important thing, one of the most important things in life is eating properly. And it's Simple, it doesn't have to be so extreme. Yes, don't eat a lot of greasy fatty foods, you know, don't eat a lot of fried foods, for example, eat a balanced diet. But one of the most important thing is in our health, I'm sorry, I know I'm going off a little bit, but here's our time together, is you have to eat consistently. You know, that's one of the most important thing isn't Eastern medicine to eat consistently, I enjoy two meals a day, it works for my body, if I wake up, and I'm really, really hungry, guess what, I'm going to eat something, you know, and then that's how we have to look at things. But eating is so important. Then on top of that, like for maintenance of our health, our youth, our beauty, all the things are Mind, Body Spirit. So and then maybe, maybe seasonally, seasonally is a great way, if you're feeling really great, how do I incorporate these things when seasonally is always a good, good time to do it? Right. So when the seasons change, maybe you go and you get acupuncture, you know, maybe you take a regimen or herbal formulations, internal, you know, even the skincare that I formulate for companies, you know, around the world, ultimately, a lot of those body lotions will have certain herbs that detoxify you throughout the day. So it's incorporating things into your life that will help you now if you have an actual condition, go and then depending on that practitioner and how they're going to treat you, they should give you an idea of how many treatments you're going to need. Usually in the beginning, you'll have a lot more, maybe you'll come multiple times in one week, maybe you'll come two times for a couple of weeks. And then it'll start to taper off a bit where it's more of a maintenance. Right. And so that's kind of what that looks like. As far as acupuncture.

Unknown: 46:30

Yeah, I love the idea of adding for those that that are just, you know, in kind of like a maintenance phase of adding acupuncture in seasons. As things shift and change, I might try that because it's true, this season changes always kind of just messily as

Amy: 46:45

as they do affect your body. Absolutely. Yeah,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 46:48

maybe it's a strange way of saying it, but as it should, meaning it's part of nature, you know, these things happen, it's part of time, and I feel like even when it comes to hormonal imbalance, something else I was talking to someone recently, you know, and going through menopause, I feel like we make it such a horrible thing. I'm just gonna say it for all of us. Oh, no menopause. So like, by the time even get there, your body's already so heightened and afraid and everything's off balance, you probably manifested a million more symptoms than you even need it because you were so scared. We all understand this. Let's just say it for all of us. But if we start to even start at certain points in Herbalife to realize you know it, it is part of nature, for a moment in time, I might feel a few things and it is going to be okay. And I'm going to be aware of my body, I'm going to know that by taking certain supplements, by eating properly, especially during that time, by giving myself a little bit more nourishment and awareness, I can kind of go with that flow doesn't mean it's always going to be you know, the most enjoyable experience. But just you can just feel right now coming into it a little differently, how much that's going to help because remember our hormones and our brain, they're very connected. Right, and she you can look at it that way too. And so it's just that it can be so powerful in and of itself. So

Amy: 48:05

yeah, I was also gonna say, just for for people listening, just so you know, or at least my insurance and a lot of people that I've spoken to insurance covers acupuncture, which a lot of people don't know, which I think is amazing, because it does show the value in it, and you're not paying out of pocket for all of this. So I know many insurance companies cover acupuncture, which I think is fabulous. And one other just slight anecdote, which I probably told Katie before, but and I'm sure those who are listening to this podcast already are believers in a lot of these things. But for people who are like a little bit like, Oh, that's too Whoo, that doesn't work, like whatever. I wanted to acupuncture once. And I was like, my period was late. I'm so bloated. I just felt like, just bloated and like full. And I knew my period is coming, but it like was late or stagnant. So I said to my eyes, were just stagnant. Exactly. So he's like, Oh, I just feel like balloon and like, whatever. So he forgot even where he did it next day. So I was like, okay, there you go. Like that, to me was such a turning point. Not that I didn't like I was an introvert before, but that was like very, it was very specific. And so I've told a lot of people that because like, that was clearly because he treated Yes, absolutely. You know, it was pretty direct way

Dr. Janelle Kim: 49:20

of saying, you know, you make things flow. I mean, I don't mean to but like, yeah, it wasn't like a

Amy: 49:25

situation. It was like one day Yeah. And the next day, I'll get

Dr. Janelle Kim: 49:28

great examples to that time a month for women to understand the feeling of stagnation. And then when things start to flow, and then what happens I mean, that is actually really a very good example to be aware of that. That is that is how it works with our body and all the systems not just you know that particular time, but in our life, all of it, but you can feel it. You know, PMS is a time of stagnation period.

Amy: 49:53

You know, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's fascinating. We could talk about this forever, but I you know, you have limited time. And we appreciate all the time you've spent with us. And we asked you, we went through a rough session last night. So I'll just ask you one question from our obsession, because this could always be changing. So what is your latest favorite wellness or beauty?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 50:11

My latest favorite wellness or beauty hack? Oh, gosh,

Amy: 50:14

I can't remember last time remember either you said it was okay. Right now

Dr. Janelle Kim: 50:19

in my life, like right this moment? What comes to mind because I am practicing it is my movement that goes back to that right now that is very, very important in my life, because like I said, It directly affects when no matter what, if I wake up in the morning, I have 15 minutes of movement that I will start to share more on my platform. I know I say this, and then everyone's like, Well, where do I go, you know, and it can be striking I write there's a specific sequence, one of which I do have up on my website, I promise I will make more soon. But they're quick. They're quick, very proper movements that have been passed down for centuries, because they can quickly affect your body. And so that, to me, is a beauty activity. Because when you're stressed, when you are tired, your chi goes off balance all the things we just talked about. And as simple Chi Gong type of movements can make you feel like a totally different person in five to 10 minutes. I mean, are breathing it has a lot to do very least just sit down I just posted something on my social where just stop and breathe for a second that is so important. You know, even that noise is really funny. I was thinking about this last night because I what do I want to share because there's something people really resonated and loved the breathing exercise. And something that can be really important. Maybe the people around you are not going to love it that I'm sharing this with you. But that stagnation. I were like ready to leave and I'm opening up a hole I promise I'll be quick. But stagnation, no Ilana whenever the best quickest ways to kind of diffuse stagnation in our body which causes liver Qi stagnation livers are general and so you can tell when someone comes in, you're like, oh geez, here we go. Very liberties that person is you can sigh like, it sounds funny, but that directly affects your body. Right? So that's why he's physically with our breath, we can totally adjust our body and when everything's flowing and we're a little less stressed, then it directly affects how we look or beauty or wellness or health. And then of course I have to say I mean the formulas that I create I'm so very grateful for my own career and job that I do because my my bathroom looks like my lab and I'm constantly using different herbal formulations and ingredients. So that will always be so I love right now I'm loving a serum I think a serum is very important in our beauty regimen. So there you go some Chi Gong young son moving meditation and

Unknown: 52:43

love. Well, Dr. Kim, thank you so much for your time it was such a pleasure to see you you always bring us so much positive energy and so many great tips and so much loaded with so much advice and knowledge so we really appreciate your time and I know our listeners will love learning about acupuncture is a topic we have not touched at all. So it's a lot of fun to get into. It's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 53:04

I love that it's my absolute pleasure. I'm so so happy to spend time with you both and to share all that I can

Amy: 53:11

love it. Thank you so much stopping recording. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to buy

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Episode 100 - 100 Episodes! What We Have Learned + Exciting Announcements! (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 100.

[00:07] Amy: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:24] Amy: You um, hello and welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters Family. This is a very, very special episode. We are celebrating 100 episodes today. I cannot believe it, Katie. I'm literally in disbelief. I know, but we're here.

[00:43] Katie: Congrats. Woohoo.

[00:46] Amy: Congrats to you too. I just cannot believe how far we've come. This was a nugget of an idea, what, two years ago? Two ish two and a half years ago, and we've done 100 episodes. So first and foremost, I just want to thank you for being my partner in crime, my sister in law, one of my best friends. I just think so much has changed over the last couple of years for us, and I think we've gotten so much closer because of this podcast, because we're connecting on things more often. We're talking all the time. We're business partners. We've become closer friends. It's just like the whole thing has been so amazing. It's just like thinking about it. We're always so rushed. We were just talking before we started this recording. We're so rushed, we don't really get a chance to reflect. So my first thank you is to you.

[01:36] Katie: That's really sweet. Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm in shock and disbelief that we're at 100 episodes, but at the same time, we've done everything souped to nuts for this thing. So it's also like kind of when you think about the weight of all the work that we've done, you can feel that as well. And it feels like a huge accomplishment. And I want to thank you too. I love you so much. And this was your idea. This is like your little you called me one day. I remember when you said this to me. I was sitting on the corner of my bathtub in my old house, looking out the window, thinking, she's insane. How are we going to do a podcast? Look, here we are. And it has it's been great. Here we are.

[02:16] Amy: Yeah, I know. It's just crazy how if you put your mind to something, you can have a nugget of an idea and you put your mind to something and do it and keep doing it and keep doing it over and over again, and it grows and more people know about it. And all of our listeners have been so incredible. So thank you to everyone listening. Thank you for all your support, all your comments, all your feedback. It's just been so encouraging to hear from you and to hear about what you want to hear about when you like something, when you don't like something. And so, yeah, we're just going to spend the next few minutes just kind of talking through the last 100 episodes and some of the highlights. And we also have some exciting announcements we're going to talk about at the end. So, yeah, just thank you to everyone who has supported and listened to us over the last few years. We're just so excited we've reached this really huge milestone and can't wait for more. So, Katie, what's your takeaway from these last 100 episodes, if you have one?

[03:11] Katie: Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's hard to just have one other than I've learned so much. And a massive thank you to all of our unbelievably talented and intelligent and powerful guests that we've had. We've spoken to some of the most amazing entrepreneurs, some of the most amazing doctors. I've learned so much. I think I could touch on a few of probably the most powerful ones that have resonated with me the most. The most recent one would be Dr. Angela Holiday Bell on sleep hygiene. She just like, tapping into she really helped me kind of understand what I need to be doing to kind of reel my sleep in. And that literally has kind of changed my life. The thing as simple as wearing blue lights when you watch TV before you go to bed helped me fall asleep faster and helping me understand why I need more time to wind down because I have a harder time producing melatonin, like does all of that. And then Jessica McGuire. Remember Jessica McGuire from the Vagus Nerve talking about the nervous system? The Vagus Nerve, I think that was the single most powerful episode out of all of our 100 episodes for me personally, the window of tolerance, understanding what it means to have a dysregulated nervous system, recognizing someone's dysregulated nervous system, and then learning how to co regulate. It's helped me. It's helped my husband, it's helped my kids. That episode was really profound for me. And, I mean, I could say that about so many of them. Natasha Brinkman. It's like a master class on skincare, right?

[04:58] Amy: Oh my God, that was amazing.

[05:00] Katie: Obsessed. What about you? What are some of yours?

[05:05] Amy: Honestly, I'm like sitting here scrolling through all of these 100 episodes, and I think for me, there were pieces of information that I've gotten from every single episode that I've applied to my life. I mean, to your point. Like The Vagus Nerve episode and breathing from Erica Brunozer and talking about parenting tips and how to talk to your kids, that one was really helpful for me. Also, shout out to Zoe Feldman. I was just looking. She was our first official guest on Nirvana Sisters in episode six. So we love Zoe, and so many of our kind of like, people that we knew, friends of friends of Friends kind of started out with us in the beginning and then we sort of grew from there. And I think I've just taken bits and pieces, like whether it be from Cat Can Cook and The Hungry Lady salad to, like you said, skincare with Natasha or hormone stuff with Michelle Aspinwall. Also, of course, one of my favorites was talking to Ellie Webb, which was definitely a dream come true for me, and talking to Brittany Driscoll and talking to some of these business leaders, just getting advice on entrepreneurial stuff and how to balance motherhood and working and all of these things. So I don't know, it's so hard to pick a favorite. I think for me, it's just taking bits and pieces of all of these things and using the ones that work for me. And I think from a listener standpoint, too, it seems like people listen to the episodes that they're interested in and then they take pieces from that. And it's like everyone that we have on is an expert in something, but it doesn't mean that what they're saying works for everyone. And so I think that using some of these bits and pieces across all the episodes helps you in whatever way you want. I also thought I'm just kind of scrolling through and looking like episode 50, the psychedelic therapy with Julia Mirror was just so fascinating. Like, it's so out of our ether and something we don't really talk about and think about, but just learning about that. And I also find now that I'm talking to people or a subject comes up and it's related to any one of our episodes, whether it was chiropractics or psychedelics or vagus nerve or chromal wellness, even, I find that I have this information somehow stuck in the back of my head and I just regurgitate it, not even realizing that I knew it. Yeah, because we're just picking up pieces of information as we go. It's just kind of like sinking in and then you do something differently and you're like, oh, yeah, I learned that in this Chroma episode. Or I learned this from Janelle Kim when we talked to her about traditional Chinese medicine. And I think we've made so many great connections with other women, which I really like, too. When we think about someone like Rachel Johnson, who we did the episode on, it was episode 63 when we talked about Green's Water Move Repeat and her whole company, AMI Health. It's just been great to meet these other women who were doing similar things to us, and we're all sort of this family and everyone supports each other, which I think is so nice about the podcasting world. There's so many podcasts, but in a good way, right? Like, everyone encourages each other and everybody wants to help, and it's just like one big podcast family, I feel like. And when we meet all these women that are in wellness or View Your Skincare, everyone's excited for everyone and everyone celebrates one another. And I really like that about this space.

[08:27] Katie: Yeah, it's incredibly supportive. I think you're exactly right. We've had a few amazing male guests also, that we've learned a lot from I think it's funny, when we first started, we didn't know if we were going to necessarily lean more female centric and it's just kind of been a natural gravitation. But it's all part of that support system and I'm really proud of it, actually. I think it's great. And it's also when you were talking about things that you learned and I was also just thinking about a way that this has kind of shaped me as a person. Doing this with you for the last two years is it's just made me more confident. When I meet new people, I almost find them. Like, I'm like and I'm not interviewing them, but I just have such an easier time meeting new people now because it's what we do. We talk to new people and we interview them pretty much weekly. And then a lot of these people are stuck in my head. They live rent free in my head with some of their amazing quotes like Andrea Marcellus, I just hear her say, like, your afternoon snack should be protein and a healthy fat. And then I hear Dr. Janelle Kim saying things like, stop being drunk on your own thoughts. Or Rachel, you just said Rachel and me greens, water, move, repeat. I can't tell you how many times these things just pop in my head. I'm like, oh yeah, that'll help my day get better. Just follow that. Follow that. So it's amazing. We're really fortunate and grateful to have come across the people that we have and had them on the show.

[09:56] Amy: Yeah, and I also it's funny because I feel like we've done episodes that we aired a long time ago and some of those topics are coming up now, like Fascia or Guaca and all of these things we sort of talked about a couple of years ago that are now coming into the world. And it's just I love learning about things that we see are sort of bubbling up and trending and then all of a sudden you hear them all the time as people's regular vernacular. So I think that's interesting. We also can't forget about our product junkie episodes because I think those have grown and we've gotten a lot of really positive feedback about those. And those are definitely one of my favorites because they're just us talking and chitchatting about what products we like, which we do all the time anyway, which was part of the reason we started this podcast. Like, let's just record our phone conversations and talk about, oh, I tried this, I tried this. So just like, doing all that has been super fun and tapped into the passion that we both had for products and just trying new things and talking about those new things. But I agree with you. When I meet with people, too, I definitely feel more confident and have kind of like, more ways to communicate because I don't think sometimes I'm the best communicator and I think this podcast has helped me to slow down, try and work on not saying as much. I also think it's helped with my public speaking. So from my corporate job, just being confident to go up in front of a room of people and talk, it's like one of those things that everyone's always nervous about no matter how many times you've done it. It's like a scary thing. But I think being able to talk every week on the mic and have it being recorded kind of gives you a lot of practice. So it helps just in general with communication and active listening.

[11:38] Katie: Yeah. Also I've had some just like fun favorite moments. Like nothing is funnier to me than when we're doing product junkies and I hold up a product and you're like, yes, I have that one too. I was going to review it this week. Or how fun is I know, we're like same brain. Exactly. And then seeing our guests in the wild. How wild was that, that you ran into Brittany Driscoll in La a little while ago and then seeing Meredith Quill running into her? Well, we didn't run into her, but going to her event in Westport and those little connections are really special. So yeah, it's all just been a lot of fun.

[12:18] Amy: Yeah, I love it. And it's actually really funny too, because then you start seeing people that we've interviewed connect. Who was it? I think Brittany Driscoll and Katie Whelan, who we just had on recently, talked about all the peptide stuff. They both live in Nashville and I saw that they were on some panel together.

[12:34] Katie: Oh, nice.

[12:34] Amy: And I was just like, oh my God, that's so weird that they happen to be on the same panel. We've had them both on the show, like they're in the same space, so it's just like all these crazy worlds colliding. But I think it's just this was definitely born out of a passion project. It still is. And I wanted to also talk a little bit about the blood, sweat and tears that this has been for us because again, we're busy and running and everyone says to me, and I'm sure they say to you too, like, how are you doing at all? And the answer is, I have no idea. But I think when you have a passion and you enjoy something, it doesn't matter and you just kind of figure out a way to do it. Nothing is perfect. Of course. It's like we always say, we could be doing more, we could be doing this, we could be doing that. But at the end of the day, we make **** happen. And I think it's really hard to do being like having another full time job, being a mom, doing this. We do this on the nights, we do this on the weekends, we do it when we can squeeze it in, but it's ours and we can kind of figure it out as we go. And I think for you, Katie, a lot has evolved in your world, too, from where you were to where you are now. So I kind of want to get your thoughts on how you're balancing it and how you're feeling because I think we don't spend enough time reflecting on that part.

[13:38] Katie: Yeah, no, I think that's really true. It's funny, I have been thinking recently about how happy I am with the balance in my life right now, because when we first started, I was a stay at home mom and I was wanting something more, so we did this. But then there was moments where it was so overwhelming because I hadn't worked in a decade. And then I have just gone back to my other job recently. And while there's a lot going on, I just feel like every box is being ticked right now. Like, I have my family time, I have my passion project, my passion job, which is this that's like, fun and so exciting. I have my work, which is also great, and I'm making my own money. So while the balance of it can be a struggle at times, it's very fulfilling and well rounded. And I've had moments where I thought, how are we going to keep doing this? But I think that happens when there's unnecessary pressure applied. And I think we've both been really smart about making sure we're just continuously enjoying it and not putting so much pressure on ourselves. And as long as we keep doing that, then we just keep plugging away and trucking away. And now we're doing everything that we do. It's like we could do it in our sleep.

[15:04] Amy: Exactly. I mean, looking back when we first started editing a podcast, we were like, wait, how do you do this? And how do you do this? And now we literally do everything, soup to nuts. And it's time consuming, but we know how to do it and we've become experts in it, which is so cool. I just love learning and to be able to learn a new craft and to be able to produce a podcast. And for people who don't do it, it's really hard to envision what goes into it. But there's probably like, I don't know, 250 steps from like A to Z right, to get it launched on a weekly basis. And it's a lot. And I think just being able to learn another skill set as you're moving along your life is so important. We're learning every week. Every time we talk to someone, we're learning new information. I think we're both learners and we love to learn, especially when it comes to something that we're personally passionate about. But just learning a new skill is so rewarding. I mean, just like, this is so technical and so different than what I do in my marketing role of big ideas and all this strategy work. And this is so technical editing and producing, but I really love it, like, getting into the nitty gritty. It's actually like I love producing the episodes and launching sometimes more than other things. I don't know why. And I know for you, Katie, you didn't know much about social media before, and you've learned how to use that tool really well. And I just think it's so cool.

[16:29] Katie: Yeah, I think so, too. I'm incredibly proud of us, and also we keep each other accountable and we keep each other in the game. And if there's a time where you're feeling stressed and crazy and you're not in it, then I try to reel you back in and vice versa. And there's also times where we're perfectly guilty of like, oh, I didn't get that done this week. But it's like we don't beat each other up either. It's like we get the critical stuff done and we keep moving forward. And as we've always said, progress over perfection. And I think that has gotten us very far.

[17:06] Amy: Yeah. And I think especially in the beginning, I think the first probably, I don't know, 2030 episodes were the most challenging because I think you and I struggled a lot and had open communication. Remember, we had some not blowouts, but we definitely had some tough conversations of like, well, who's doing this? And are we doing this every week? And DA DA DA. And, like, until we got our flow, it was like a little, like, tense, right? Like, there were definitely some tense times, looking back, but now I just feel like we're in the flow. And I think, too, I was going to go back to what I was saying about you going back to work. I've actually seen a huge difference because for you, I feel like you're more in a flow than you were before because I feel like it's because you're more structured, right. And, you know, you have to be certain places at certain times. Not that you didn't before, but it's just different. So you almost are more organized and more in the flow. Yeah, I see that. I don't know if you feel that.

[18:03] Katie: But I've definitely noticed that there has been a shift, for sure. And I think also just like, having something else, having my other job, it's released some of the pressure of this and allowed me to enjoy this for what it's always been. It's been our passion and it's fun, and we love doing it together. So I think that has a lot.

[18:27] Amy: To do with it. Yeah, I think you're right. You're totally right. I also think it's given us both more perspective. Like, now that you're back at work, you have a perspective of like, oh, now you sort of know. I know what you go through and you know what I go through when we have other responsibilities that are not just family. Right. And it's like, oh, my God, I have this deadline, or I'm working all day. I'm out and I'm like, okay, I'll do this or you'll do that. I think we bounce off each other really well. So anyway, I'm just trying to think about more fun stories. I think there's like so many random things that have happened throughout the last few years. I mean, I think, again, our guests have been amazing. I think people have been so generous with their time. People have given us so much time and so much of their expertise, and it's just been really gratifying. And again, just want to shout out to all the guests that have been on our show and even some guests more than once.

[19:22] Katie: Yeah, just how generous they have been with sharing their time with not their time, but sharing our podcast with their people and kind of just giving us more exposure and being excited about being on the podcast with us too. I mean, we've had some guests that have a million followers, we've had guests that have 500,000 followers and everything below and in between and above. So we've just been very fortunate. So thank you to all of our amazing guests. And we have amazing guests lined up and more to come, so it's all super exciting.

[20:00] Amy: Yeah, lots more to come. So with that being said, a couple really exciting announcements that Katie and I wanted to share with our amazing listeners. And thank you to our listeners for loving this as much as we do. We love doing it and we do it for you. We do it for us because we love it, but we do it for you more, so because we know you love it too. And you love to get in all the minutiae of the details of health, wellness, beauty like we do. So thank you again.

[20:28] Katie: Yeah, that's exactly what I was just thinking. We have always done this to share with you all because we want you to learn and have access and to have the ability to achieve anything and everything you want for your health and wellness journey. Whether that is just making sure you get in eight cups of water a day or the fact that you do Reiki healing and you work with crystals and you go and do face yoga. Whatever your journey may be, we are just really grateful that we can be a part of it and that we can help you along with it. So thank you.

[21:06] Amy: Yes, good point. And one last thank you before we get to our exciting announcements. Wanted to thank my husband Stu, who really is sort of been my partner in crime behind the scenes in this. He was the one who really gave me the motivation to do this because he knew that I'm an entrepreneur and at heart he knew I love all this stuff. And he's like, you got to do something with it because, yes, you have your other job, but you need to put all this effort into something else. Too, for you. And he kind of gave me a lot of motivation to really even start the idea. And he also came up with the word Nirvana because Katie and I had a list of 50 different titles, which are hilarious, which we should post about one day, but he actually came up with the word Nirvana and he really captured what we were trying to get at, like, what is your Nirvana? What's going to make you feel joyful? So shout out to Stew.

[22:04] Katie: Yeah, thank you still. And thank you to my husband, too. He's been incredibly supportive. Shout out to Adam.

[22:09] Amy: Yes, they've both been super supportive. Okay, a couple big updates.

[22:15] Katie: Big announcements.

[22:16] Amy: Big, I know. So, a few announcements as we close out this episode. So, I don't know if you all know, but we have a website, Nirvanasisters.com, which we've launched kind of in a soft way a couple of months ago. Don't know if any of you have seen it yet, but we've been linking out all of our show notes there and we wanted to just call it out because it's really exciting. We've been working on it behind the scenes for a long time and we're continuing to add to it. And so if you go onto the website now, you'll see every single podcast episode that we've had out, you'll see all the show notes, you'll see all the BIOS, you'll see all the product links. It's all there in the blog. And so we wanted to have a place where you all could go and reference just more content around all of our episodes. So that's really exciting. So we wanted to make sure you checked out Nirvanasisters.com when you get a chance. And Katie. What's next? What else do we have to announce?

[23:02] Katie: Also equally as exciting, the other thing you're going to find on our website is we now have Nirvana Sisters Merch yay. We have great swags, I mean, great sweatshirts and t shirts and tumblers and a hat that I'm obsessed with. Amy has a hat on.

[23:20] Amy: I'm showing everyone the hat. Kind of 1 second. I'm going to do this.

[23:25] Katie: Yeah, the hat's. Super cute.

[23:27] Amy: Everyone check out the hat.

[23:29] Katie: Love the hat. And then check out the sweatshirt and our new logo. My tea. Keep glowing. Nirvana Sisters. Tea. So there's a lot in there and we would love you to just go on there and get whatever you want. You can order it straight from the website. It's so fun. Come straight to your house. Yeah.

[23:47] Amy: That is going to be launching the day that this launches. So our shop will be launching Thursday, April 6, in conjunction with this episode. And like Katie said, there's sweatshirts, hats. We've got a coffee tumbler or coffee mug that says Daily Nirvana. We have a water bottle that says Nirvana in a bottle.

[24:07] Katie: We have a hoodie, a few great hoodies.

[24:11] Amy: Yeah, we've got a really awesome hoodie. We've got shirts that say a few different quotes like keep glowing and hustle and doses and different quotes from a lot of our episodes. And we're going to be continuing to add new products over the next few months. So tell us what you like and we'll keep working on it. We also have our new logo. We're really excited to share with you all, so please check out our website, check out our new store with all of our new merch support us. We are so excited. We've been working in the background on the design of all of our merch. It's really elevated and we're so excited for you all to check it out and let us know what you think. And we'll post some of these products on social throughout the week so you can get a little sneak peek of the shop.

[24:51] Katie: Yeah, exciting. All right. And then here's the last news, and it's very exciting. Amy, do you want to share?

[24:59] Amy: Sure. So we are now joined with Podcast Nation, which is a podcast network, and we are so excited to announce this news. So we're really excited to join the team at Podcast Nation. We started chatting with them a few months ago and they're an incredible group of women. There's about, I think, like 20 or 30 podcasts that are part of this network. And what that means for you is the show is growing, so we'll be connected to more people, more amazing podcasters, we'll have more access to guests. We'll probably be on some more podcasts, and we'll be on the Podcast Nation channel, on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, et cetera. And that's going to be happening over the next couple of weeks. But as of today, we've joined their network and we are super excited to be joining the Podcast Nation family. So thank you to that team for welcoming us with open arms as we start this journey with them. So more to come there, but wanted to make sure we shared all of our exciting updates. And again, thank you all for the last 100 episodes. Looking forward to hundreds more with my partner in crime, Katie. Anything else, Katie, before we close out?

[26:10] Katie: No, other than thank you. Thank you, thank you. We are so grateful. We are filled with gratitude for our listeners and our supporters and our guests. And this 100th episode is my Nirvana of the Week, I think of the year. So I don't know about you.

[26:27] Amy: Yeah, agreed, agreed. Huge milestone, Nirvana of the Day in the week, along with our other launches. It's all good stuff and more to come. So. Thank you. Nirvana Sisters family.

[26:37] Katie: Bye.

[26:38] Amy: Have a good week. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us, tune in next. Week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to bye.

[27:04] Katie: You know.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Episode 99 - Wait!? Bread, Butter & Wine With Dinner? Portion Control, Exercise Tips, and Why Heavy Weights with Andrea Marcellus, PART 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 99

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:24] Andrea Marcellus: You. Um.

[00:27] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show. Nirvana Sisters Family. We are back with Andrea Marcellus for part two. If you didn't listen to last week's episode, make sure you listen to part one. It was really helpful. This week. We go through many different things, but one of the things we talk about are tips and strategies for eating, especially eating out, eating during the holidays. Andrea has some great techniques that she shared with us. We also talk about why accountability is key and a lot of exercising is a mental game. We talk about different tips for exercising for your age group, and we also get into what heavy weight means. I know for me, I hear lifting with heavy weights all the time, but I don't necessarily know what that means. So she gets into that as well, as well as a few other quick weight routines. Enjoy the episode and thanks for listening.

[01:18] Katie Chandler: I love that.

[01:19] Amy Sherman: Yeah, that's very freeing.

[01:20] Katie Chandler: Yeah, absolutely. So I want to know some quick and easy you've mentioned strategy. Strategy, strategy. And I know you have so many great little tips and strategies and things to use when you're dining out, and maybe just hit us with a couple of your favorites that tend to be really helpful for people.

[01:44] Andrea Marcellus: Well, I can give you dining out. Strategy and holiday strategy are sort of the same thing. I measure food in hand portions because we're getting away from calorie counting or anything like that, and we figure out what's an energy appropriate portion of food for you. So when you approach holidays or you approach, just say, eating out, just try to think in terms of the total portion. How many hands are you going to try to eat at this meal? Like, probably two, three hands. Something in there, right? So I think of it that way. So I definitely sit down, I order a glass of wine. I get bread and butter because I love bread and butter. Oh, my God, wine and bread. I know. I'm everybody's best people. Like, my clients would be like, the first time I would go out to eat with a client for it and everybody's trying to eat right in front of me. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm ordering the pizza.

[02:44] Amy Sherman: Oh, my God, I love it.

[02:46] Andrea Marcellus: I know, but I didn't. I came from the other place. But anyway, so then you start to think about especially if you've been horse and controlling for a while, your stomach's smaller, so you have to think about it. So if, like, appetizers come out, I go, okay, I'm going to have three bites because there's other things I want. If a salad comes, I'm going to eat half the salad because I'm saving room for dinner and dessert. Dinners that come at a restaurant are always at least two food, maybe three. And you can go, okay, and this is my lunch for tomorrow. Like, I'm having this and then you know, I'm going to have this awesome, delicious lunch. That's amazing. And then you have some bites of dessert. But by thinking of it beforehand in terms of, okay, how many hands of food am I going to eat rather than like, trying to I didn't mention at all what I was eating except for bread and butter. Right. It doesn't matter what you eat. If you're portion controlling your social meals, it truly doesn't matter. And if you're optimizing the meals you don't share to be highly nutritious, boy, are you living a good life and you're setting yourself up for great health. Yeah. You're not skip the broccoli and eat all the things you can't get except for that holiday. Just portion control.

[04:04] Amy Sherman: It so about portion control and about the hand idea, I love that I guess it's dependent on the person, but generally speaking, right. How many hands should you have? Because I think we've completely like as a society have no idea because the portions in America are so big that we're all overeating because it's just there, right? Yeah. So what's a good maybe thing to think about?

[04:30] Andrea Marcellus: So in my app I have a chart that's a starter chart. And please keep in mind I literally made this up from a vision. This is literally just a guidepost. I've been doing this particular thing with people for over 15 years and it's literally just a guide to help you figure out what's best for you. And the goal is to be satisfied and have energy to take you just from meal to meal. Nobody here is a farmer. Basically, like, we don't have to eat a big breakfast so that we can get on with the day. And I already established that eating to maintain a workout lifestyle is only going to work if you are a professional athlete or if you are somebody with a very specific physical goal. You're training for an event or you're a bodybuilder. So if you're any of those people, don't listen to me right now. For the rest of us who are just busy working people and want to be able to go out and drink wine and eat bread, start with a breakfast within an hour of waking up or trying to eat one hand of food, or maybe two if you're one of those people. And then that's when the clock starts the day and you eat every two to 4 hours and you're trying to eat for snacks or small meals, you're eating one hand. For lunch or dinner, you're eating two hands. And see how that does for you. And notice I'm not telling you what a hand means. You figure it out for yourself. And I mean, I help people through this, obviously, this is what I do, but that's a guideline I could give you to kind of try to start yourself. The key is with all of these things is accountability. So we all have best intentions. And this is why I'm very happy to offer out my habits or my strategies, because I've been doing this a really long time. The missing piece of all this is when people are making a shift in life and they realize they need to make a change. Accountability helps so much. And there was one study I read where accountability increases your chance of success by 85%.

[06:45] Amy Sherman: Wow.

[06:46] Andrea Marcellus: 85%. And so it's really important to either have the help of a coach or to do things with someone else or in a group or whatever. I can't encourage that enough. And this is coming from someone who never asks for help. I just don't I'm just learning to do that. I think last year, so maybe at 49, I'm getting better. I'm 50 now. I've been doing it for about a year and a half. No, but asking for help changes your life and two, doing things in groups. I've been this lone wolf my whole life in so many ways, and only in the last little bit do I have some groups of like I have a CEO group, I have mentors, I have my bestie girlfriends that I've had forever. But sometimes I'll just get bogged down at work and not rely on that so much. Or I don't want to waste the time telling them stuff that's wrong. Well, I've learned that, wow, groups help, and I can't encourage that enough. So if you decide, look, I'm ready to make a change in my life and I want it to be a real one and a lasting one, you got to go slow and steady. You have to respect yourself and really define who you are before you even start. And then you get help. You get people to keep you accountable, you get people to keep you positive, and you make sure you tell those people your purpose. Motivation comes from purpose. And when you say your purpose out loud to people, it ends up being like in stone. And you can change your purpose, but it really, really helps. It's like dropping a flag, implanting a flag of, this is who I am and this is where I'm headed, and everybody just watch me and please cheer me on.

[08:37] Katie Chandler: I love that. That's great. That is so true. Especially the accountability piece. I mean, I think Amy and I can speak for that just because we've doing this. We have been each other's accountability partner, and I think we're like, approaching 100 episodes, so it says a lot about having somebody to cheer you on and to help you out.

[08:59] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it's so true because there's so many times and also just like, just what you were talking about for exercise groups. Like, I have friends in the neighborhood, and we'll make a plan to do a walk on the weekend. And sometimes you're like, I don't feel like going. But then you're accountable. You're like, you know what? I'm not going to bail on this person. And then you go and you feel so much better. But if you had not made that plan, you would never do it yourself because it's just too hard to motivate yourself sometimes 100%.

[09:23] Andrea Marcellus: It's a mental game. Again, a mental game. I put a feature in my app, literally, just because of this. I made up this thing where so these custom workouts, you can dial up like, you know, I have regular classes, but it's another feature, like, and you can dial up like, there's, I don't know, 30 options in there. You can even say, like, I don't want to mess up my hair. I'm at my desk. I don't want to mess up my hair. I got to zoom. I have ten minutes. Let's do something. But what's cool is you can invite other people to do the workout, live with you on your phone. It's a silent feature. So this was like I was thinking about, why do people come to me? It's to have someone to talk to or to have an appointment time. We're going to do this so you could make up a workout and then text it to your friend and be like, hey, let's meet and do this. And it's really cool, and it's a way of creating that accountability around workouts so that you actually show up for them, because you are more likely to show up for yourself when it involves someone else. Just look at your to do list today. When you look at what actually got to done, it's the things that involved somebody else, and the stuff that was just for you is like, kicked down the list, and maybe you'll get a couple of those things done, but everything for somebody else got done first.

[10:40] Amy Sherman: So true.

[10:41] Katie Chandler: Well, speaking of exercise, a couple of tips to get some exercise in. And also I saw on your TikTok page recently you were suggesting low intensity steady state for a certain age group and high intensity interval training for a different age group. Walk us through that because I'm just so curious as to why.

[11:04] Andrea Marcellus: Okay, that's a great question. All right, so both of them will burn fat and burn calories. People want to say that high intensity intervals burn way more fat or calories. Like, well, no. A recent study showed for all things kept equal, this one group lost three and a half pounds, where the other group lost two and a half pounds. Doing steady state, like, it's not a massive amount, so everybody take a breath. But here's the difference. Steady state, the low intensity steady state workouts, they are gentler, they're easier. People get into them. You kind of zone out for some people that's easier to stay consistent with. They train your stamina and especially if you're younger exercise. What we want to be training in life is stamina at that point, right? And they increase Vo two max. The volume of oxygen your lungs can push out to your heart with every single breath. The amount of oxygen your heart can push out with every single beat to get your muscles going. So that's important. The thing is that they have to be longer workouts and you risk overuse injuries. So that is something people that hang out on the treadmill all day, it's like imagine it's repetitive motion activities or runners, things like that. So just a couple of considerations there high intensity interval are really important, particularly for perimenopausal or menopausal women, for two reasons. Because they increase insulin sensitivity, your body's ability to respond well to smaller and smaller amounts of insulin. So as opposed to insulin resistance, which packs pounds on your body, okay? And we already have more Cortisol floating around your body at that time. We already have a hormonal disadvantage going on. So we definitely want to improve our insulin sensitivity. And the other thing about it is that you get this thing called epoch. It's post exercise oxygen consumption. So what happens during hip workouts are two things. One, you have stored glycogen in your muscle, that's your muscle sugar. And hip workouts are so demanding that they use up those glycogen stores very quickly. You feel that you can't go very long. They also deplete the oxygen you have available. So your body is rushing to kind of restore those glycogen stores. And in that process it requires insulin. So your body gets very responsive to insulin again, it improves that if it was not happening for you. And at that stage of life, we get a little insulin resistant. Also, when your body is restoring the oxygen levels to where they need to be, that takes hours. And so that's where after hit workouts, you get this increased metabolism, this increased fat burn for hours. And in perimenopausal and menopausal, women, there is a tendency to put on belly fat and for the body to be depositing fat. So anything that keeps us in a state where our metabolism is lifted a bit for a while is going to be helpful. So that's what that's about. They're good for everybody all the time. But a particular recommendation for, say, my age group and I talk about this all the time. I love hanging out on my Stairclimber and I do travel reservations and my text and I answer people, all the people that message me on TikTok, I'm probably on an elliptical machine or something messaging you back. But actually it works against me at this point and can increase stress. So I actually have to dial it down myself right now.

[14:56] Katie Chandler: So there is a really important piece, though, that you mentioned on the piece of content that I saw about doing hit and how some people are doing it wrong because they're not actually bringing the heart rate all the way back down. And so when you don't bring it all the way back down, I imagine that's when it starts to raise cortisol levels and become a little bit more problematic. So is that the key? You get the heart rate up and.

[15:20] Andrea Marcellus: Then yeah, it's huge. I'm so glad you brought this up because, boy, if I want to give anybody a tip, it's like, gosh, this is taught improperly everywhere, all the time. More is not more. So when you're in the Spinning class, you're doing your Peloton, you're doing your Orange Theory, you're doing whatever, like the entire concept of Orange Theory where it's like this leaderboard and it's about calorie burn. It's like, oh, my goodness gracious, those people on that board have nothing to do with you. And by the way, if you're tired, your heart's going to be faster. If you're dehydrated again, remember, I said whole humanity. These things are so arbitrary and artificial. So what they do is they're pushing people to push themselves, but not with a purpose, not with a goal. The goal isn't who can burn the most calories. The goal isn't how high can you keep your heart rate up for so long? The benefit to your body comes in the zero to 60, right? It's in the acceleration. Stay in there for a second and bring it back down. Those are the intervals. That's where it happens. So if you don't bring it all the way back down to what I call a four out of ten, then you are not getting the full benefit of that, and you are just burning out muscle sugar. And then what happens there is you feel funky afterwards. And then what do you do? You start going to eat things or drink things to try to feel normal again. And guess what? You ingested more calories than you even burned during that workout. And I know this personally. This is what happened to me over exercising as an instructor and for myself, and I'm a Spinning instructor as well. I'm telling you, when I started to really understand the science of what was going on and I changed, and it's to being gentler, where you come all the way down, then you go back up again. For us, it feels like you're slacking. It feels like and it's like, no, that's the way to do it. It's so funny. Less is a great reminder.

[17:34] Amy Sherman: That is a good reminder because I haven't done a hit workout in a while. I've been doing more low impacts, but I don't even know in my hip workouts, if I get to a point where I'm a four out of ten, I feel like they're exhausting. It's probably why I haven't done them in a while. I'm going to remember that super demotivating.

[17:50] Andrea Marcellus: But here's the thing I like to say like you're asking me for tips. I'm big on desk workouts. I don't think anybody has more. I do plain clothes desk workouts all the time. And what's awesome is you can do a hit workout between a zoom. You can sit there and it can be 90 seconds of squats, anything. And boy, not only are you going to give yourself a little metabolism boost and you're going to reframe your brain, you're oxygenating your entire body. Most importantly, you're oxygenating your brain. You're going to be able to focus on whatever's coming next in your day. And the best part, just do that for 90 seconds and tell me that you want, like, chocolate or potato chips. You don't. All you want is water. So if you're having these snack cravings in the afternoon, just doing any 60 to 90 seconds of any exercise, you know, that gets your heart rate up, boom. You're not going to want anything. It's going to get you through that moment.

[18:45] Amy Sherman: That's so great. I wanted to ask you two things. Firstly, if hit, let's say, is recommended for someone who's Perry, right? Mid 40s, mid 50s, right. Does that mean you should only do that or does that mean you should do it a certain amount a week? Or can you combine it with lower? Like, what do you recommend there?

[19:06] Andrea Marcellus: Fantastic question. No, we definitely don't want to do hits two days in a row. You have to give your body rest. And again, we are always trying not to have stress and we certainly don't want to increase stress on the body. So you want to keep these sessions shorter? I don't do it ever for more than 20 minutes or so. It's always part of something. And the workout bar in general keeps shorter and just activate your life. More of a standing and walking. You'll be doing much better, but definitely skipping a day, so maybe three days a week or something like that. And yeah, the same with your heavy weight workouts. You want to be very careful about that. Like, you have to have rest. That is one of the biggest mistakes people make. They're pushing, they want results fast. And it's hard to believe that just strategized and gentle is going to get you there.

[20:01] Amy Sherman: Let me ask you, you just said about the heavyweight workouts, and that's what I really wanted to hone in on because I don't really know what that means. What is a heavy weight? Is it £10, is it £20? And how much of that you should be doing? I used to have a trainer years ago and I did a lot of weights and it was good, but it was a little too intense. And now I'm like, I really need to get back into this strength training. Katie has been really into it lately, but it just feels like I don't know where to start. I don't know how long, et cetera, et cetera. If you could give our audience some little tips and strategies there. We'd love it.

[20:37] Andrea Marcellus: Sure. It doesn't have to be super long. It has to exhaust you and just muscle, exhaustion of the muscle you're trying to work. So that amount of time is going to be different for every person. So what you need to do is make sure that you're lifting heavy enough so that your form starts to suffer at the 9th or 10th repetition. That's kind of what the definition of a heavy weight. So whatever the exercise is, that's where you want to be. I tend to, on heavy weight days, go with a we're doing them, what, three days a week, something like that, because you're leaving a day in between. And then I might do lighter weights on other days and all sorts of things and body weight workouts. But what you really kind of want to stick to a more traditional weight training protocol for the best results with your heavy weights because also your joints are going to be aligned properly so that you avoid injury. So that's not a great place for choreography. As much as I love it, you want to kind of just really watch your form and three sets of ten. It's a good way to go. And the best thing is that it's a no brainer. Put the weights at your desk, do your three sets of ten.

[21:59] Amy Sherman: Sorry to be like so specific, but is it just three sets of ten of something or is it like several exercises? Three sets of.

[22:09] Andrea Marcellus: But I can't make you a workout here on a podcast.

[22:13] Amy Sherman: Why not?

[22:16] Andrea Marcellus: But I mean, if we wanted to break it down to the least, like your body has to work in opposites. If you're doing a bicep curl, you must do a tricep. If you're doing your shoulders I would say for the people listening here, if we wanted to really no brainer this, you're going to do a bicep curl, you're going to go a tricep kickback, you're going to do some kind of overhead press and you can call it a day. If you're really a good super achiever, you're going to do some desk push ups or some regular push ups. I'm a fan of regular push ups and getting yourself to be able to do those. And I have a great video on how to work yourself up to plank push ups, which you change as a person mentally once you can start doing those. And then you would do some bent over rows and then you would go chest back, bicep, tricep, deltoid, bam, back on my I love it.

[23:11] Amy Sherman: What's funny, you have a piece of content that I haven't bookmarked and I use it all the time. It was like for busy people, it was like the arm one where you're like, do you have this lab or whatever? I've literally done that video so many times. And it's great because you said earlier where you stand on 1ft and you do the breathing. But in this one, it was standing on 1ft and putting the foot behind and doing I think it was like bicep curls or something like that. And I love that video for our listeners on her TikTok. She's got all these fun. It's your point of like, you have five minutes in between a call. Just go on a TikTok, watch one of your videos, do one of those things, and there you go. There's like one set down for the day. I have a feeling it's really great.

[23:51] Katie Chandler: All of this is on your app probably, as well. You probably have so many resources on your app as well.

[23:57] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[24:00] Andrea Marcellus: Like this, too. I mean, yeah, there's regular workouts, but there are workouts where I literally wore plain clothes to shoot them. I wore what I wear to work so that it's clear you are not required to change your clothes to think about fitness. And I think that's my big thing. I'm trying to change the way America thinks about fitness and fitting it into your life. Not that it's like this separate piece you have to make time for nobody. We can't do that, but we absolutely can show up for ourselves in small bites. And the fact is, the results are better. And there was just a study, again, about this that just came I love it when there's a study that comes out that kind of validates the way I've been doing things with people that I just find actually works for them, for their lifestyle. But a study just came out this week that the benefits for your heart of working out between eleven and five are higher than if you work out in the morning or the evening. So these little bits I'm telling people to do during the day. I guess your heart likes it.

[25:12] Katie Chandler: Great. It's very interesting.

[25:14] Amy Sherman: Before we get into our wrap session, where can everybody find you? Because I know everyone's going to be clamoring for all these. Your content and your app and your website. Give us all the deets to do.

[25:25] Andrea Marcellus: Is go to andlife.com and like, Andrea lifelikeyourlifeandlife.com. And you can see my one on one program. You can see group programs if you want me to come to your company. And then you can also see my app, my book. There's so many tools to help people. I really have tried to make it so that it is not about cost, that it doesn't matter what your budget is, it doesn't matter what's going on in your life, that I have some way to help you show up for yourself and feel better now. And that's really what it is.

[26:05] Katie Chandler: That's fantastic.

[26:06] Andrea Marcellus: And then, of course, I'm on Instagram at Andrew Marcellus. I'm on TikTok. I think it's Andrew Marcellus. Official. I'm on YouTube. I'm like, I have stuff everywhere.

[26:15] Amy Sherman: And you do virtual coaching. If anyone's interested in doing one on one, that's what I do.

[26:20] Andrea Marcellus: My programs are all and we have really clever ways that I fit into your busy life. And it's pretty cool. The results are insane when you sign up for a call with me because I have to do a call with people and really understand where you're coming from, make sure it's a fit because nobody fails. And I go all in on people. Nobody fails. It's pretty cool. And you get sent a thing with just videos of real people going, oh, my goodness, it's so easy. It's so much easier than what people thought. So I'm just so proud and happy of what we've been able to accomplish and just watching people level up when they've just been struggling with this for so long. And making this a non conversation so that our lives can be about more important, more exciting, more fun things and helping people bring joy and a great relationship with food, which connects us to each other. It's so gratifying. Really cool.

[27:17] Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's really wonderful. We absolutely love what you're doing. All right, so let's get into our.

[27:22] Andrea Marcellus: I'm So Glad wrap session.

[27:24] Katie Chandler: Our first question is for you, Andrea. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

[27:29] Andrea Marcellus: Oh, my gosh. Well, my favorite wellness hack in general is my brain reframe I do when I'm making my courage coffee. I talk to people about strategizing, like making rituals in your day. And it's one place where I just practice focus, and I know it takes about 90 seconds for my courage to make it. So I don't allow myself to do anything but focus on the sounds of that and that's activating brain centers that would shut off the amygdala. That's my stress reframe in the day. So that's one of my favorite wellness hacks. Like that you find a little thing you already do. I also plant whatever it is, but you just give yourself something and it becomes your ritual. And then as soon as you go to do that thing every day and if you just focus on it, your brain starts to know that's a safe harbor for you and immediately goes into that state of relaxation. It's pretty rad. And then my beauty hack is anastasia has this thing called Italian Summer, and it's a palette, a contouring palette and a blush, whatever. This is all I use because you can use it for your eyes or your face. I have no time. I am all about what is the easiest one product I can use, and I have to say I'm a huge fan.

[28:47] Amy Sherman: Oh, I haven't heard of that. I got to check that out. Very cool.

[28:51] Andrea Marcellus: Yeah. A contour, a blush, a highlighter. Perfect my eyes.

[28:56] Amy Sherman: And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

[29:01] Andrea Marcellus: Oh, my gosh. This is such a good question. How do I maintain? I live according to a code, and I have built just a little life of little habits that are easy to maintain and where. I end up showing up for myself in small ways throughout the day, every day. And so it doesn't matter what comes flying at me in a day. I always have something that I'm doing that lifts me up, and literally, it shoots out dopamine. And I know that, but that's what I try to help people do, is create for themselves. I call it a self care scaffolding, but that's how I maintain my nirvana. I love what I do. It doesn't mean it's all always going right, but boy, do I love what I do. And I have ways that I lift myself all day long. I love it. I know.

[29:57] Katie Chandler: It is inspiring. It's very inspiring. All right, well, Andrea, thank you so much for being with us today. We were so excited to talk to you. And like we said earlier, we both feel like we know you because we watch everything you do on TikTok, but.

[30:12] Andrea Marcellus: You I love it. That's so amazing.

[30:15] Katie Chandler: For sure. I want to thank you all over.

[30:19] Andrea Marcellus: Your work is helping people. This is a wonderful, wonderful space you've created. And the conversations you're having are important and vital and really meaningful. And so I'm honored to be here and I appreciate it so much. I'm so glad.

[30:32] Katie Chandler: Thank you.

[30:33] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.