Episode 172 - Sisterly Catch Up: Sharing Our Sleep Struggles, Binge-Worthy Shows, Fave Workouts, And More (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 172.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well-being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters-in-law and your hosts.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. I'm so tired.

SPEAKER_00:

You want to kick it off? Oh, I'm. Yeah. Do you notice? I just I don't know if you have this with Adam, but I do this to all the time. Like if he says I'm tired, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so tired. It's like a competition. Yes. So when you just said I'm so tired, I'm like, yeah, me too. I got like no sleep last night. So let's start off with that. So Nirvana Sisters family, Kate and I decided we just needed to catch up. And speaking of sleep, my sleep has been horrible, which is so unusual for me. First of all, I have a cold, so that's probably why. But I think I have a cold because I've been sleeping like not great the last few weeks, probably from stress. But I don't know if it's time of year. I don't know what it is. Have you been feeling that way?

SPEAKER_01:

I have been sleeping fine, but I'm having a really hard time falling asleep. Mm hmm. I'm waking up so tired. I don't. So my like one of my superpowers is I either a wake up before the alarm or B, I wake up with the alarm and I shut it off and I get right up and start my day with no problem. I had that hasn't been me though for a while and it's driving me crazy because like the first half of my day I'm in a sleepy fog like I am right now. Story of my life, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

At night I'm like wired. This is me. This is what's been happening to me lately. It's driving me crazy. And then you get in this pattern of like being a night owl. So last night, for example, this is terrible. I was up late. I was like tired, but then I got wired. So I ended up watching the season finale of Tell Me Lies at like, I don't know, one in the morning. Probably didn't fall asleep till two. I just couldn't fall asleep. And then I was watching that show, of course. And, you know, it was amazing. If anyone's not watching Tell Me Lies, it's such a good like, you know, binger of a show. But anyway, same thing.

SPEAKER_01:

It's driving me insane. I don't I. First of all, if I stayed up that late, I wouldn't be here right now, so I don't even know how you're doing it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I know. I'm like running on empty right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Late for me is like 11, but you know, I always go to bed early.

SPEAKER_00:

So, I don't know. What's a good time of sleep for you to go to bed? Is it like 9 or 10?

SPEAKER_01:

My most ideal time to fall asleep is between 10 and 10.30, if I wake up earlier, great. But you know, I'm usually up at like 5. So yeah, if I was two and got up at five, I'd be dead meat.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so my ideal time to fall asleep is between 10.30 and 11, and then get up around seven, which is usually my routine. But I'm finding I'm having a hard time to stick to that routine right now, because I think what's happening, I was explaining this to Stu too, and I don't know if you feel this way, I'm sure you do. I feel like I'm so busy during the day, and then by the time you finish dinner and do the things you have to do, it's like then you have no downtime to yourself, and I feel like my only downtime is nine or 10 o'clock at night. 100%. And then it's like I don't have a wind down routine and it's like you really need to start the wind down routine at like eight o'clock, but we're still doing stuff at eight o'clock at night. So I got to like redo our whole schedule.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's 100% without a doubt part of our problem. And I kind of think a little bit has to do with back to school and like getting the girls back into the back to school routine. Yeah. Madeline also is now getting to the age where she wants to stay up later. So not getting into I used to put the girls to bed and be in bed, like turning my TV on ready to have my me time by like 805. Yeah, forget it. It's not happening till like 9 or 9.30.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. I mean, I don't even really. I mean, Jules is in ninth grade, Jackson's in 12, so it's not like I put them to bed anymore. But like I also was traveling to L.A. last weekend and it was a great trip, but it was like Friday to Sunday, which was totally fine in the moment. But then I think it's taken me like a week to catch up just from like traveling and like a long flight and the jet lag and whatever. hence why I have a cold and yada yada but yeah I think it's a hectic time of year and I'm glad I'm talking to you and you feel the same way because we all just need to take a step back and breathe because I just feel like I'm it's also I'm stressed because it's Jackson's senior year and there's like all this college stuff and like there's a thousand things going on so I'm just having a hard time balancing it so I'm trying to go back to all the things that we talked about like I'm trying to do my breathing I'm trying to like really hone in on it, but I think the sleep, if I can, to your point, get it organized where I can wind down earlier and get in bed by 10.30 or so, then at least I feel like if I get my sleep schedule back, then everything else will fall into place. I also have eight sleep, which I don't know if we've talked about before. Did we talk about eight sleep?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if we've covered it yet.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what it is?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you've told me about it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Just for our audience, if you don't know what eight sleep is, it's changed the game. Well, obviously, the last two weeks, I haven't been sleeping well. So taking that aside before that changed the game on sleeping.

SPEAKER_01:

You get into eight sleep. Yeah. I can't help but think like, as the season's changing part of it, and just like, Oh, and everything can't be alone, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Now, I'm sure our listeners and other people are feeling the same way because I feel like all my friends feel the same way right now, too. It's just like that time of year where it's very hectic. And I always feel like that, too, when the seasons change. It's like, I don't know, your body just feels different sometimes.

SPEAKER_01:

those things off. Okay, so Eight Sleep, yeah, you told me so many.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah, Eight Sleep is amazing. I won't go super in depth, I'll talk about it on a Product Junkies episode, but it's basically this mattress cover that you can put on top of your mattress and it heats and cools and you can program it. And not only does it do that, it captures all your biometrics. So I can see last night, where's my phone? I can see, well, I don't even wanna tell you my sleep scores, they're probably horrible. but you can get your sleep scores. Actually, my sleep score wasn't terrible. For some reason, it says my sleep quality was 90%. which isn't bad, because I thought I didn't sleep so good. But anyway, it gives you your sleep fitness score, tells you the quality of your sleep, it tells you how much REM sleep versus deep sleep. So it gives you all of the data, and it also auto-optimizes the temperature based on how you're sleeping. It also captures your snoring, it captures how long it took you to fall asleep, it captures your heart rate variability, all that kind of stuff. So it's really cool for data nerds, which I know you are, but the best thing about it is just You know, you can get in if you like a warm bed at night or a cold bed, you can schedule the temperature and it just turns on and you get into bed and it's like nice and warm or nice and cold. And then it also, you can change it throughout the night. So if you want it to be cool all night, you can make it cool all night. And then in the morning, you can set it so it gets warmer because you naturally will wake up with like a warmer temperature. You can naturally wake up with a warmer temperature. So like it helps you to wake up. And then my favorite part is the thermal alarm. The bed wakes you up with like a gentle vibration, like a tap. It's almost like someone's tapping you to wake up. Game changer. So you don't wake up with like an alarm sound. I mean, it takes the sunrise alarm clock to the next level because it's not even it's just like a light little tap. But anyway, that's been like my favorite sleep hack or sleep tool. Just not lately. So I got to get my routine back in check.

SPEAKER_01:

Does it have two zones for the temperature? Yes. Your partner wants a different temperature.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So Stu always sleeps hot. And now he's literally not hot when he sleeps anymore. He puts the cold down and it goes down to like minus 10 or plus 10. And I think he only puts it on like minus two and it's cold enough, which is crazy. It's very it's an it's an incredible. Product anyway. OK, so sleep, we're not doing good, but we need to do better, so.

SPEAKER_01:

I feel like my diet has been pretty on point. I've been focusing a lot on whole foods lately. In the summertime, I think my diet flies off a little bit because there's just so much celebratory Like it's just so it's like a time where you're on vacation. Yeah. We're entertaining a lot. So I've been trying to hone that in and get more into just like really, really focusing on on eating whole foods, which I think is always such an easy hack to get your diet tuned in. You know, it's like I'm not calorie counting. I'm not. Yeah. Not like restricting anything except for really like processed crap. Right. And focusing on whole foods like 80, 20, 90, 10, maybe. Yeah. So I'm like, if I can get my sleep dialed in, then I think I'll be feeling really, really good. What about you? Have you tried anything new lately? Any new good? I'm trying to think if I've had any good... What's one of the best snacks that are like healthy snacks?

SPEAKER_00:

I know. I'm like crazy with snacks. I feel like I always have good snacks. I do have like some good, I mean... Like I like my chickpea snacks. I got these really good. I don't well, they're gluten-free and These somewhat healthy a little like snacks from a Costco these like organic little yogurt covered fruit things which are good. I Feel like we have good snacks. I feel like my my eating has been healthy ish, but like not full meals, which is always my problem. It's like I'll graze all day on healthy things, but like I'll have carrots and hummus and then I'll have like, I don't know, one of my protein bagels and then I'll have this. Like I'm not lately. I'm not sitting down to eat like to your point, a full meal with like whole foods where there's, you know, a carb, a protein and a vegetable. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not.

SPEAKER_01:

It's because you haven't been as hungry. You're just like too busy.

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's both and like lazy. I just want like things made. Like my go-to is always like hard boiled eggs or tuna or like, it's just like one thing. It's not like a full meal. So do you know what I mean? Like, or even if I make dinner at night, I'm always like, okay, I'll make chicken. And then I'm like, wait, I need something else with it, like rounding it out. So I always need like inspo. But like, I look at some of the people that we follow, like Katkin Cook, and I get ideas, but it's like, I, I'm not organized enough to get stuff in advance. So like, sometimes I'll do that, but I've just been inconsistent.

SPEAKER_01:

You know what I feel like is the best hack for that is, is adding sweet potatoes. It's because sweet, they're so good for you and they are filled with fiber and they are just really, they're like, I love sweet potatoes and you can literally, I mean, it's not the best thing, but if you're in a time crunch, pop it in the microwave and it's done in like minutes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I also have the sweet potatoes that just reminds me in the freezer, like those ones that are like already cuts. You can put them in like in the toaster. I forgot about those. My kids don't eat sweet potatoes, though. Stu and I do. Do your kids eat sweet potatoes?

SPEAKER_01:

Maddie does. Reese, I mean, I don't even know how Reese exists.

SPEAKER_00:

Is she still just eating pasta or what is she eating?

SPEAKER_01:

No, she eats at least at like the best I can get in her is like nuts and seeds, seaweed, sugar snap peas, cucumbers. But then asides from that, all she wants is like pasta, rice, or processed crap.

SPEAKER_00:

That's it. Yeah, it's just in that phase.

SPEAKER_01:

I can't get her to eat protein. Don't get me wrong, she'll eat some McDonald's chicken nuggets if I give them to her. Right. I mean, it's like, it's brutal. And the thing that's scary is it's not totally a phase. It's been this way since she started.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's hard. So what do you do? Just keep trying? I just keep trying. Exactly. But at least she's getting in some of those healthy snacks.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, she does. And she'll, you know, she'll eat like good granola and she'll eat a protein bar, which isn't the best, but that's like, that's practically the only way I can get protein in her, a smoothie.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Smoothie is good. I have to get back on my smoothie game. I feel like I go through phases with smoothies. Like I do love smoothies, but then, and I get in a phase of making them all the time and then I got out of it. So that's always like a good go-to. I feel like I have to remember that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, sometimes if I'm really tired when I get home from work, I'll just make a smoothie with like some good protein powder in it.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. I feel like that too. Lately for dinner, I don't, I'm not craving a big dinner, but obviously living in a house of boys, like they want like a big dinner. And I'm always like, I could have a smoothie or I could have cereal. Like I just don't crave a big dinner, but they're all like ravenous. So I have to figure out like what to make or what to get them. And we've also been like getting a lot of like takeout, not bad takeout, like kava and things like that. But you know, it's just,

SPEAKER_01:

Did I say on Stories recently, you shared something like when my 15-year-old's $3 hamburger gets delivered and it's a fail? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. It's like they're out of control with the DoorDash. It's crazy. Okay, switching topics because we didn't talk about this and I think you watched Nobody Wants This, right, on Netflix? So good. So amazing. Well, first of all, it was so cute because of the podcast Sister. So I was like, yeah. And you know, it's based on Erin and Sarah Foster from World's First podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't actually know that. Yeah. And so somebody told me that after I watched it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's it's based on a true story. It's exaggerated. I heard her talking about it. Like, Erin Foster, who's the creator of the show, married a Jewish guy and converted, not a rabbi, but it's like loosely based on that. And that's where the idea came from. And they have their podcast and whatever. So I loved it. It was so good. We watched it in like a day.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I watched it like the last two weeks. And it's really, I mean, Kristen Bell is so cute. So cute. Adam Brody, adorable. Adam Brody. Yeah, he's so cute. That's a great show. I totally recommend it. Remember The O.C. ? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Was he? Was it the OC or? He was on one of those shows.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, no, you're right.

SPEAKER_00:

You're right. Yeah. Like back in the day.

SPEAKER_01:

What is Tell Me Lies? Because Adam came into the room last night. He was driving home from the airport and he's like, I talked to my mom and dad for an hour and they told me about this show that I should watch, but I definitely shouldn't watch with them.

SPEAKER_00:

Wait, who told him to watch this? Your parents. Oh, I know. This is the most great show. Watch the show. Oh, you can't watch it with the kids. It's so yeah. So first of all, that is hilarious because my parents I forgot my parents told me they were watching that. Like I watched Tell Me Lies season one. um whenever it came out right and like never even talked to my parents about it because i would never think that they would watch that and then the other day they're like oh yeah we're what we're catching up on tell me lies i'm like are you joking like i cannot believe they like it because it's about like college kids and it's so there's so much sex and craziness but like hilarious i thought it was about like affairs it's not about it no well it's basically about a toxic relationship between these two main characters and but it's based like in 90s college. It's so good. I'm so jealous you haven't watched it because you can watch all of season one and now binge all of season two. It's so good. But it's like one of those where it's like, it's bad but good. You know what I mean? But it really depicts sort of this toxic relationship.

SPEAKER_01:

Like it's like a guilty pleasure kind of watching.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, exactly. But it does cover like topics and different things for sure. But yeah, just watch it.

SPEAKER_01:

And then Adam would get into it because he, you know, he never watches anything with me.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know. He doesn't really watch TV, does he?

SPEAKER_01:

Except the news. All we ever watch together is Curb Your Enthusiasm. And then we watch Schitt's Creek for a while. That's like, yeah, I mean,

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know what kind of shows he likes. I mean, Stu, I feel like watched it maybe with me in the beginning, but then was sort of like whatever. But I love all those shows with like school, college, high school, like any of that stuff. And apparently my parents do too. So I feel like he might have watched it, but then like wasn't as into it as I. Adam might like it. I mean, everyone's like good looking and it's like college and it's like fun and it's like sex and it's crazy. You know, it's it's so good. So, yeah, season two came out. I watched all that. Watched the last episode last night. It was the I guess I'm pretty sure it was the season finale for season two. So put that on your list because like if you have anywhere to go, just like download a bunch of shows and watch it. You'll love it. But you yeah, you cannot watch it around the girls. It is like It's too graphic. It's too graphic. Not every scene, but there's definitely like, you can't, no way.

SPEAKER_01:

I just got into, so I don't know why, when, or where it happened, but I have turned into the biggest history geek. I have just all of a sudden become obsessed with history and with war. History and what? History and war. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's so, so random. So I'm reading one book about the fall of the Ottoman Empire. So random. This other show, this show that I just started watching two days ago, it's insanely good. It's called 1883. It's on Amazon Prime. Have you heard of it?

SPEAKER_00:

No, but Stu probably has because he loves all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

It's so good. First of all, the main characters are Tim McGraw and Faith Hill. So they're married in real life and they're married in the show. Oh, okay. And then Sam Elliott, which you would know who he is as soon as you see him. Oh yeah, I know who he is. He's great. Amazing. And then there's these crazy cameos, like Tom Hanks makes a cameo, Billy Bob Thornton.

SPEAKER_00:

Is it new? What's it called? 1883?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know when it came out, but it's about early settlers in the West, and it really depicts what the Wild West was like. Oh, that's cool. In that era. But it's just really well done with the characters and the acting and the actors and everything. Every episode there's another cameo of some insane actor. So it's really good. I'm only on episode four. That's interesting. Did you watch Game of Thrones? I did. I never finished it, though.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, OK. Because there's another show, which I think is in the second season. I forget what it's called. The House of Dragons. Yeah, it's the prequel. We've been catching up on that. But it's funny because we loved Game of Thrones and we liked this show when it first came out. And now we're on season, I guess it's season two. But it's never like our first choice because it's like you have to be like ready to watch it. Like I'm finding that I just like these tell me lies and like nobody wants it's just like these easy So you're not like thinking too much. You're just like zoning out.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a little bit, I feel like 1883 is kind of an in-between of that. So I was into these really, really heavy shows. And I'm trying to think of what I just finished that was so good, but it was heavy. It was called The Lioness, and it was about the Middle East. Before that, I watched We Were the Lucky Ones, which, have you seen that? I've never heard of that. It's a true story. I could cry thinking about it. It follows a family that survived the Holocaust. And I didn't know that it was Come like a completely true story until the very end. Oh my god So you pictures of the family and of the people and they tell you where they're gonna have chills? Yes, I was I'm not kidding. I was sobbing I was sobbing crying when they when I realized that it was a true story. Oh my god I mean, it's I it's a definite recommend, but it's heavy obviously.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you got to be prepared. What channels that is that prime also?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah was I think hulu

SPEAKER_00:

OK, I just wrote it down. I want to watch that. So you have to be prepared. Yeah. I watched this other speaking of true stories and again, speaking of my parents, because they're the one who told me about this show called Under the Bridge. Oh yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah, that's on, I want to say Hulu as well. And that's a true story, not as heavy as like, well, it's heavy because it's about, it's about someone who dies and I didn't.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that the great actress from Handmaid's Tale? The same woman?

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's, I'm trying to think who's in it that you would know. You know the main, this is so random, the main star in it is the woman from, did you watch Daisy and the Six? Yes. The main character? She's totally different in this show, but she's one of the main characters in this.

SPEAKER_01:

By the way, that's Elvis Presley's granddaughter. It is? Yeah. That's Lisa Marie Presley's daughter.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my God. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01:

Daisy and the Six?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. It's her name.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't even know her name, but I just read that recently. It's Elvis Presley's granddaughter. Isn't that cool?

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. That's really cool. I did not know that. So she's one of the main characters in this Tommy in this under the bridge show. And it's sad. It's about this like group of girls in high school. One of the girls dies. And it's a true story. But that was also good, but like heavy, dark, but but good. And my parents randomly told me about that one, too.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's talk a little bit about exercise because you've got a tonal.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I know I haven't talked about this. I mean, you know it, but I haven't really mentioned it. So I got a tonal, was it back in the spring? I want to say maybe April-ish and I've been using it ever since and like you've talked about it obviously on the show and it's great and I love it and it's definitely like Between that and Melissa Health, I found my groove, although the last few weeks since I've been stressed and busy and feeling under the weather, I haven't been working out as much, so I need to get back to it. I mean, I've done a workout or two a week, but nothing. hardcore, but the tonal is amazing. I think it's such incredible technology because what I find is like when I use the weights there, like if you were just to use free weights, you would just use the same weights all the time. You would never change them up or maybe you would, but there's no like formula. And I just like that you don't have to think about it. You can press the button and it automatically just like optimizes it and like you can beat your personal records and like it just does it. So there's no thought. You just do the class. But It's funny, now it's like, I feel like, and I don't know if you got to this phase with tonal, because I've been doing it a lot. First of all, I feel much better, I feel stronger, I'm starting to see more definition, which I love, but I'm getting to a point now where it's getting hard, it's getting heavier, and it's like I worked out last week and the weight was heavy, so I was really sore the next day for a few days. Is that what happens?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, that's what happens because it's during progressive overload, which to your point is exactly what's so amazing about it. But that's the only way that you gain strength. Yeah, I get it. Because then it makes the workouts like a little less exciting a little harder. Yeah. like grit to get up and go and do it. I totally get what you're saying. But you can also, if it's too much, you can also manually change it.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, scale it back just depending on how you're feeling. One of the things I was going to ask you, I think I mentioned this before, I'm also finding, this is so weird, but like with the tonal, since, you know, it's like the handles, I find that like when it's heavy, it's not that I can't do it, but sometimes my hands and my wrists are like weak. Like they're not strong enough to almost pull up the weight, but like my, body is strong enough. Does that make sense? It's like heavy in my hands and then it like hurts my wrists.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but that's also just literally... It's your grip strength.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I need to work on that. I used to have like a grip like little thingy at my desk and I lost it. I want to get another one of those because I'm realizing I'm like, I feel like my grip strength is really weak.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, just working out on the tunnel will improve your grip strength.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I would do that for sure. Yeah. So I've just really been doing tonal, Melissa Wood Health and walks. That's pretty much it. What about you?

SPEAKER_01:

Tonal, I do the weightlifting, of course. And then I also will do the occasional yoga program on there if I don't just want to do my own flow. I actually got with the bird of paradise the other day, which was kind of crazy. You start with your body and a lunge and you bind your arm under your thigh and around your back and then from being down you then stand up and you've got like your leg is like wrapped in your arm and you're bound up.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god, I don't know how you did that.

SPEAKER_01:

I did it. It was very cool. And then I got the Nice Day Stair Stepper that was all over TikTok. Oh, right. We bought that, too, because you had it. Yeah, I love it. I'm obsessed with it. It's such a good cardio workout for me. And it is lifting my glutes, which I need. I love it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we have to post this. How much was it? $40? $50? I think $60. Oh, $60? Yeah. It's literally like a tiny little stair stepper. And Katie brought it over the summer when we were together to the beach. Well, actually, I tried it at your house and then you brought it to the beach. And it's like, it's so good. I forget about that because you know what? We bought it and then Stu put it in his office because he uses it all the time. Good. He uses it more than I do. And then I like forgot about it because it's I don't see it when I go downstairs. But it's great. I know I need to use that more. I find myself like wanting to do like tonal workouts more than that because it's like cardio. And I'm like, I don't feel like doing cardio. But to your point, like if you literally just go on that and watch Tell Me Lies, you're like, that's exactly what I do.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll get on there and I'll put on something like Usually if I'm working out, it's it's during the day, so I won't get into anything heavy. I'll put on something stupid like something sunset and I'll just like pump away for 30 minutes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I need to, that's a good one. We'll, we'll, we'll put that up on our feed because that's like an easy thing that you could just like travel with or just put in your office, whatever. And the other thing I wanted to share with you, which I didn't share with you is shout out to my friend Victoria. She gave me, or she told me about this product. It's the TheraBody Face Smart Goggles. Have you seen these? They're these goggles you put on, you know, Therabody, like they have all these face products now, like different things. It's literally these goggles you put on and you charge them and you press a button and they're like, they like massage your temples and your face. So you told me about it. Oh, did I? It's amazing for headaches. It's amazing for like if you've been looking at the computer screen all day. So back to the sleep deal, I've been trying to just use that at night as a way to like It's like a really good way to wind down. So my friend Victoria told me about it and I bought it and it's really, it's great.

SPEAKER_01:

Really helps with headaches. Another great way to wind down. I think I'm going to do it tonight. Take an Epsom salt bath before you go. It definitely helps get you into sleeping mode faster.

SPEAKER_00:

I need to just do that. Also, we have the sauna and that helps too. I think the outcome is we need to start our wind down routine earlier.

SPEAKER_01:

and just get back into the groove. I have to go because I'm going to go get IV therapy. I'm hoping it's going to perk me up. Good.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. Well, I hope you all have enjoyed this episode of our chit-chatting and catching up, and we'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 169 - From Kitchen to Consciousness: The Power of Food and Energy with Chef Whitney Aronoff (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 169.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well-being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters-in-law and your hosts.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome back to the show, Nirvana Sisters family. It is Amy and Katie, and today we are sitting down with Chef Whitney Aronoff. She's the host of High Vibration Living Podcast and founder of Starseed Kitchen Organic Spices. Chef Whitney works as a holistic chef in Laguna Beach, California. She shares her healthy recipes and wellness insights on her website, starseedkitchen.com. Passionate about empowering people to cook healthy, supportive, nourishing meals. Because the healthiest meal you can eat is the one you can make at home. Chef Whitney shares insights on all the ways to nourish your physical, emotional, spiritual, and mental bodies. Star Seed Kitchen Organic Spice Wins combines Chef Whitney's culinary and spiritual knowledge. These products bring more flavor, color, and nourishment into your daily cooking routine. Each jar is charged with Kundalini mantras and quartz Giza crystals to raise the vibration of every meal, which sounds so intriguing and we are really excited to have you here. So thank you, Whitney, for sitting down with us today. Welcome. Thank you. Absolutely. So we like to always kick off with a little nirvana of the week, something that just brought you some joy. I know, we haven't done this in a while. I know, that's been a while. And we're never together, so it's great. So Amy, you want to kick off so we can get the flow started? Yes. What was your nirvana this week?

SPEAKER_02:

I would say this vacation. So we're on vacation together, our whole families. So Katie's my sister-in-law, so it's my brother, sister-in-law, her family, my family, my parents and our cousins just got here. So just a nice big family week off of work, just kind of disconnecting. So it's been really, really great.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, mine is obviously definitely the same to narrow the scope a little bit. I would say these mornings where we've been getting up, if you don't get up at 7 a.m. and put your chairs out, you don't get front row seat on the beach because it's crazy here, people. It's so crowded. So those quiet mornings that we've had, we've been going down really early with our coffee. No one's on the beach yet. Those have been some serious nirvanas. This morning, we did it together.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, very nice. What about you, Whitney?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I would, I'd have to say was going down to the beach after work one time this week. So just going down at four o'clock and it's just so nice after a long day to just do a quick beach walk, to get grounded and dive into the water. And it just fully resets you. And, you know, you feel like you're doing something a little naughty by going to the beach at the end of the day. Um, but it just, it feels so good and it really uplifts your spirit.

SPEAKER_02:

And you're lucky. Where are you in California? You're in Laguna Beach, you said? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so beautiful. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Jealous. I think it's one of the most beautiful places in our country by far. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's gorgeous. All right. Well, let's get started. So this is all very intriguing. I'm curious about the kundalini mantras and the crystals and everything that you put into your spices. But there's a deeper backstory. You tell us a little bit. How did you get into this? It was in efforts to heal an autoimmune condition. Is that is that right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, but I also just think, you know, we all have those things that we're immediately drawn to when we're kids. And, you know, so A lot of people, they ask that type of question, like, when did you get into this? Like, I don't know. I was born this way. Like, I was always the only kid that was into crystals. I'm telling you, nobody was interested. I was just always into, like, I remember as a seven-year-old kid being into that one friend's mom who did tarot cards. Like, I've just always been into the spiritual side of life. And it just naturally came about more and more as I personally struggled with gut issues and health issues growing up. I was always really healthy. I thought I ate healthy, always exercised, was always on sports teams. But then, you know, just as I got older and I would hold in my emotions because I wanted to act appropriate or show up the way that I thought I was supposed to show up, you know, I started to have gut issues that were probably emotional based. And I started to have gut issues, which were probably based on the food I was eating, because a lot of the food that we thought was healthy in the 90s It's heavily processed food. It's, you know, sugar-free frozen yogurt and margarine. It was just massive amounts of fake food that we thought was health food. So for me, it was probably a combination of the food and emotions that I was just holding everything in. And so I started to have, you know, gut issues and chronic fatigue and all different things that would come up. And I'd go to different doctors. No one could tell me. you know, how to make this go away. And I just started to realize after spending thousands of dollars going to doctors in LA, in New York, you know, going through phases where I wouldn't have my period and, you know, no doctors would help me. They would just want to write me prescriptions for, you know, Estrogen when I was like 23 years old, just like things that were going to throw off my body even more. Um, it was just like constant cascade of like bad advice from doctors and then it making my body worse that I just hit a tipping point that I just thought like, I'm in this body. I know what I'm feeling. I know what I'm experiencing. I know what it feels like to look great and feel great. And I know. when I'm the opposite and I have to trust my gut and I have to figure out how to heal myself because nobody out there is going to be able to do it for me. And so I just tried to figure out how can I teach myself and ultimately I decided what I felt for me was I needed to start with food. I needed to go to a health supportive culinary school where I could have just as many classes with health supportive chefs, like learning to make food from scratch, but the traditional way, you know, like, do I really need to soak my rice? What really needs to be washed? What really needs to be sprouted? Like just real traditional. slow cooking, as well as classes with registered dietitians that knew what the government was telling us is healthy versus what traditional wisdom tells us is healthy, right? Because not every registered dietitian is telling us the right information that's really going to heal us. It's a part of a controlled curriculum. So I just wanted to get the whole picture so I could figure out what was right for me. And then apply it. And what I what I found was when I upgraded my food, when I upgraded my diet, yes, I felt amazing and looked amazing. But all that did was lay the foundation for me to then be able to address all the emotional stuff that I had been holding in all these years. And when the food was right, then all the other stuff could just kind of fall off. It was so much easier to use a variety of practices that exist out there whether you want to go to talk therapy or you want to do hands-on healing or you want to go to you know someone that's going to help you learn tapping or just pull the emotions out of your body like there's there's thousands of modalities that exist in this world that are beautiful that are helpful that were But I really think you have to get the food and your diet and lifestyle right so the stuff can start to fall off more easily. It shouldn't be hard for you to let go of the stuff that you've buried to keep you safe. Like, there comes a point where you gotta let it go so you can live and be healthy.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's interesting. It sounds like you're a combination of self-awareness, self-advocating, and then really eager to know, to want to get back to feeling great. Because I think to your point, a lot of people, they don't always feel great and know how to get back to that. They start feeling lousy and they forget. And you remembered and it's you made it your life's mission to not only get back to that, but to help others get to it as well. Yeah. I'm also really interested just as a sidebar, how much of like a polar difference is there between that traditional wisdom, how food should be prepared, what we should be eating, versus all of this like government-recommended things. I think that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

Huge. It was really sad. I have to be honest. When I was in culinary school, you know, we'd sit in the classroom with the registered dietitian, and she would tell us, this is what I'm told to tell you. This is the truth. This is what I'm told to tell you. I suggest you consider this. Wow. That's crazy. So a lot of, yeah, there were quite a few kids in my culinary kids. There were quite a few people in my culinary school program who had either already gone through some sort of nutrition training or after we were done with school, we're going to go back to school and become a traditional registered dietitian through university. And I was thinking about doing that when I was in school, but those classes made me realize I can't, I can't do it. Like everything inside me, um, I had just reached a point where I couldn't spend time and money sitting in a classroom being lied to and knowing it's lies and having to take those exams and choosing answers that I know are fake and false and are actually hurting people. So I decided, you know, I'm, you know, I'm gonna have to be an outlier. And ultimately, the truth will catch up. And all this this false narrative will fall away as it already is. Right. So like when I was in culinary school 10 years ago, all the studies were coming out proving that eggs don't cause high cholesterol because they don't. Right. You know, eating fat, eating like real healthy fat, avocados, ghee, butter, lard. they don't cause high cholesterol. It's actually brain food. So the Weston A. Price Foundation is something that my culinary school really focused on teaching us. And they have done studies after study after study that show that when kids eat healthy fats, it's so nourishing for their brain and that their attention spans in the classroom um increase and their test scores increase and they're just happier kids when they have a little bit more fat in their diet for their brains. So it's we we have so much to unlearn and so much to learn but I really try to approach it just from a positive aspect that we we're just getting to experience kind of this this this game change, and we're leading up to, you know, a tipping point. Ultimately, everyone's health is going to improve. We're just hopefully getting to a point where people are fed up with not feeling well, but they start to not just be more open minded, but take action like everyone has to take their own personal action. We all have those family members or friends that sit there and complain all the time about how they feel or how they look. or how their life isn't, you know, showing up the way that they want it to, but we can't make the changes for them. They have to take the steps. And I think we're getting to a point where, you know, everyone's reaching their little tipping point.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So I have a question. So if someone's listening and they're like, I buy into this, I don't know where to start. Like, how do I start? I don't know if it's like testing foods or making foods that are better for me. Like, what did they do other than, you know, buy organic, you know, all of that. But like, what kinds of things would be good for them to start with, I guess, or test or make?

SPEAKER_00:

So a lot of different directions there. First, just start eating real food. And if you don't know what that is, just eat fresh, seasonal, local food. Start with a plate with a protein, a vegetable, and a healthy starch. Start reading the labels of everything you purchase, even salt, even butter. Everything you purchase, you have to look at the ingredients list. We're just in that weird time right now. I like to look at things as good, better, best. Because as a personal chef, that's where my clients are, right? Not all my clients want kale and quinoa, and that's fine. Not all my clients want real bone broth in the freezer section. They're fine with the boxed version. So it's a good, better, best. I know for my body and how sensitive I am, I have to use real bone broth that I make, or it's only bone broth from the freezer section. I can't use anything that's boxed. and has been pasteurized. That's not going to work for me, but that's where some people are. So it's a good, better, best with everything that you're approaching, like milk, right? So most people are going to just go buy organic milk. The next level up would be to buy A2 organic milk. So A2 means that that's from a farm where they genetically tested all of the cows to make sure that they carry the A2 protein, which means They were like the original milk cows that haven't been modified. So they still have the protein in the milk that allows your body to digest it and break it down. So you're not going to have the side effects that some people have from drinking milk, which is like phlegm in their throat or inflammation. And then the next level is that is buying the A2 milk that's labeled 100% grass fed, grass finished cows. And then the next level after that would be raw milk. And then the next level after that is not even the raw milk from the grocery store, because that is still slightly pasteurized, but going directly to a dairy or a local farm stand and getting your raw milk from them. So there are so many levels, right? Just like, you figure out where you are, what you have access to, what works with your budget, and you start there. And you'll find your body just starts kind of craving it. a next level up or you mentally start craving a next level up. It's like a vibration that you're kind of craving. You just want to move up. So you just kind of start with good, better, best. And I find when you change your food, Everything changes. So I find your intuition opens up, like you naturally can sense things and feel things. And you're just knowing and trusting yourself evolves. And with that, you'll know the next move to make. I think it's really important, though, that when people start to change their diet, that they don't get angry. They don't get angry as they learned about our food system and they watch documentaries. You got to take the anger out of it. And you can't allow yourself to fall for all the information out there. So if you're watching a bunch of documentaries, you have to understand who paid for that documentary and what the angle is behind telling that story. So because I've dealt with a lot of personal clients as a personal chef, where when I show up at their house, there's just so much anger and so much still control over the food. And that's not going to get you to a better, healthier place either.

SPEAKER_01:

I like the good, better, best in respect to the way that you just laid it out, but also for someone that is on a completely new journey, I feel like it makes it very accessible because they can also apply it to everything that they're doing. And that like today I'm going to eat kale and that's good. And then I'm going to also add in quinoa and that's better, but I still kind of want like those potato chips that I'm not ready to let go of, you know? So I feel like you can apply it to different areas of your life until you eventually work around to the whole picture being the best or what have you. It just feels like an easy approach for someone to not be overwhelmed by saying, all of a sudden, I'm going to be the cleanest eater in the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's also hard to find. I mean, I've heard of raw milk, But I actually hadn't heard of the A. Yeah, the A2 milk. Yeah. So that's interesting. I also think it's, to your point, a little bit hard to find the information of like what it is and where you get it and where, you know, the right places that you can trust. And then in terms of the ingredients, I think we always talk about that, like just basically the less ingredients, the better. That's what I try to tell my kids. Like the ingredient list is this long, like don't eat that. But if it just has a couple of things that you can identify, probably that. I mean, I was, you know, that's kind of like what I think about, but really interesting. And then like in terms of cooking, you know, farm to table, because I know that's your style, right? How do we, how would someone, again, that's like maybe just a decent cook, like they want to eat clean, but maybe they're doing the wrong things or whatever. How would someone approach that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I like starting simple for people that are overwhelmed by it. So that's when you want to just go with the protein. And that's why I'm into spices is because I think spice blends are a great way to add flavor without adding a bunch of other ingredients. So, you know, if you go to the aisle and you're looking for marinades because you want to marinate your chicken, that's when you're going to get a lot of junk. That's when you're going to get a lot of sugar, canola oil, and MSG, and a bunch of those ingredients you can't pronounce. But if you go and buy an organic spice blend, you can turn it over. Make sure you're not buying one with sugar or citric acid or anti-caking agents or MSG. That's still in there. But you can find clean spice rubs. I mean, that's what I do for, you know, that's what I do. That's what I'm passionate about. And you can season your chicken breast really well with that so you have flavor. You know, you can take your potatoes and you can chop it up and toss it with a little olive oil and the spice blend, and now you have flavor when you roast it. You can do that with carrots, with parsnips, with fennel, with onion, with Brussels sprouts, with whatever veggies you want. can still add flavor without the sugar and the canola oil and the junk. So you can start simply, but it's really easy with just salt and pepper and just buy really good quality, real sea salt. Play with pepper, so fine pepper, horse pepper, you'll start to notice like the different texture of pepper will give you different flavors. I'm in a different experience when you eat it. And then when you get really comfortable doing, you know, your chicken breasts or your chicken thighs and your steamed veggies or your roasted veggies and your sweet potato, you can start to play more.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. And your, your, um, spices are star seed kitchen. That's the brand, right? It's sold. I know you said it's sold in Arowana's. It's sold in other stores in whole foods as well.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's at Arowana. It's in, um, a butcher store called the butchery in, um, Southern California. So they have locations in San Diego and. throughout Orange County, and then I sell it on my website on StarSeaKitchen.com. And they're really the spice blends that my family and I have been making since I was in high school. So it's what I've been cooking with my whole life. And then when I became a personal chef and, you know, I'd want to go and do the Southwest blend for my clients or like to do tacos. or my chicken thighs, or some adobo chicken thighs, or a whole roast chicken, and I was needing spices for all these different dishes, and everything at the store at the time had sugar in it, and none of my clients wanted sugar in their spices. So I started having to make big batches of my spice blends for my clients' homes for when I was there cooking. And then they were just like, well, can you just make the extra so we can give some to our friends when they're in town? And I was like, well, Maybe I should just make a lot more. That's really how I got into sharing it with others. And what keeps me going is like, I'm going to eat these spice blends on my potatoes and carrots and chicken and in my meatballs my whole life. So I might as well share it with other people and just constantly make a big batch.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's great too because I love a blend because I'm always, Katie's really good with spices, but I'm not because I'm always like, how much of this and how much of this, but this is like already done for you so you could just throw it on there instead of just like trying to figure out all the proportions. So I love that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite things to make for myself and for my clients are paleo meatballs. And this is really great for anyone that wants to eat healthy. They're really tired of basic pieces of meat. So you can buy any meat you want, ground turkey, ground bison, ground venison, ground beef, ground pork, whatever you're into. And you can just start with the pound, a pound will usually make four or five really small meatballs, but I just add a tablespoon of my 11 magic herbs and spices and then whatever junk you have in the fridge. So a little onion, a little cilantro, parsley, a little bell pepper, a little celery, whatever scraps you have that I just chop up really well and add it in. So it just makes it like a little bit bigger. Um, and then you just bake them at 400 degrees for anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes. and you have easy protein bites. Or you can put it on a plate. So I find that if you can just get, I always suggest to people three recipes. Just master three recipes, three recipes that you love. Now you have that recipe that you can share with your partner or your boyfriend or your husband or your girlfriend or whatever that you're proud of. And then now you also have a dish that you could take to a potluck. And now you can feed yourself no matter what. Um, so I always suggest to people just like master three dishes. It could be three breakfast items, three lunch items. It could be a breakfast, lunch, and dinner item, or it could be desserts, like whatever lights you up and makes you happy. But like find three recipes that you really love and get really good at it. I always say it takes about three times of doing a recipe to get it right for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Still working on that. I'm not a good cook, so like I don't have any recipes that I'm good at except for like tacos, but I'm definitely using the wrong spices. So I need to get yours. My tacos are probably healthier.

SPEAKER_01:

That's great advice, though, because I was going to ask you after you have been cooking for others all day long, what do you want to come home and make? I mean, what you know, someone that's exhausted from work all day and then come You know, it's like you don't always want to cook a meal after you've been out working all day. But what do you do?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I meal prep for myself as well. So on Sundays, when I come home, I try to make a lot of extra food. And then on Wednesdays, I usually make a lot of extra food. Recently, like I've been really into I've been, there's a potato salad recipe that I've been making that I really love. And I add, I go heavy on herbs. So it has tons of dill and it has tons of celery. Like it's a potato salad, but it's really like a celery dill salad with like. With potatoes. With potato. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds good. So I love it because I can add it on top of any sort of mixed greens. I can add more hard-boiled egg. I can add chicken. I can add steamed green beans. I can take it in different directions. So I often make bases that can then evolve into different types of meals throughout the week. Um, I love, like we talked about, like paleo meatballs. So I've been doing some tzatziki recently. So I'm getting some really good A2, a hundred percent grass finished yogurt from Alexander Farms. You can get it at Whole Foods and I grate in the cucumber. So it's really cucumber with a little bit of yogurt. And then I add in fresh mint or dill, and then that works as a really nice sauce on like whatever type of turkey meatballs I made for the week. Um, and I can, yeah, I can super easily pull that out of the fridge and, you know, put that with some easy steam zucchini or spinach or whatever, super fast veggies. I'm really into steaming and blanching veggies because it's fast and it's great in the summer. And then I always have a healthy starch in the fridge already done. So short grain brown rice, roasted sweet potatoes. I love, I do root vegetable mashes. Those recipes are on my website, meaning it'll be parsnip, a parsnip mashed potato instead of a regular mashed potato. So it's parsnip, a little ghee, garlic, white pepper, and then you use the water that the parsnips were cooked in. Instead of adding milk, it's just water. It, they make amazing mashed potatoes. So I use parsnips, white sweet potatoes, purple sweet potatoes, do it with cauliflower. I do it with celery root. You can do it with anything. And I have the recipes all on my website, but I make that a lot and it's in the fridge for a few days. And that's like so great to just do some steamed broccoli and then you just dip it into like a healthy mash and then whatever protein you want. Um, so that's what I've been having in. That's what's stocked up in kind of my fridge right now.

SPEAKER_02:

It sounds so good. Yeah. Yeah. Like I. I think meal prepping is the key to all that stuff, right? Because then you just have it at hand and you don't have to just start scrounging, because I even find I'll try to buy. Three done stuff at like Whole Foods even, and it's just it's never it's never good. It's like, you know, salmon or chicken and you try to like have that. So but it's just like doesn't never taste fresh. Yeah. Like I feel like if you just make it yourself, it's better.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. There was a time where Whole Foods made all the stuff, all the food, all the prepared food on site at each location. When Amazon purchased it, they moved to cafeteria style. So it's all made in one location. It's shipped to them in bags, and they just pour it out from the plastic bags into the salad bins. You know, I'm at Whole Foods five days a week. So I know everybody at the Laguna Niguel Whole Foods and multiple other Whole Foods here in Orange County. And as soon as that changed in the prepared food section, the employees told me not to eat the food. The employees told me not to eat the food. So because I'm a chef and I'm really fascinated about food prep, I think that was also a big part of me going to culinary schools. I just wanted to be a better orderer when I went out to restaurants. And like, I just wanted to figure out how can I order healthy when I go out to eat, whether I'm just going out to brunch with friends or I'm on vacation, like what am I really getting? And that's when I learned how a lot of the eggs that we get at restaurants aren't eggs. It's a prepackaged egg mixture with a ton of additives. And the only way to get real eggs when you eat out at a restaurant is to order them poached or sunny side up. Otherwise, if you are ordering an omelet or scrambled eggs, you are not getting eggs. You are getting eggs that were cracked weeks ago, mixed with citric acid and a bunch of other chemicals, and they just pour it out of a bag and then ladle it into the nonstick, cheap nonstick pan that they're cooking your food in. And so it's the same thing when you go to Whole Foods. When you look at those scrambled eggs and you can see the weird consistency of them, it's because it's not real eggs.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. I can very distinctly remember a time where I enjoyed Whole Foods Prepared Foods and then- Yeah, now that you're saying it makes sense. And then stopped. I know. It is like factory sprouts.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, it's- Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, me too. I spent a lot of money there eating, like getting breakfast and lunch and dinner. Um, it was great. Like I could tell you which whole foods across the country had really good prepared food because every location was totally different. We need to go.

SPEAKER_02:

Wouldn't that be amazing to do a shopping trip with you at Whole Foods and find what are all the good things and what are the things to avoid? Because, yeah, I mean, most people, if they want to eat healthy and organic, just default to Whole Foods or like there's a place by Me Moms, which is also organic market, which is pretty good. But, you know, unless you're going to a farmer's market or like a few other specialty stores, it's obviously like I every time I go to like a chain grocery store, which I don't a lot, my kids will just pick up whatever junk they like. Unfortunately, I'll go in with them and I'm. Horrified, like I can't even everything in the aisles looks so gross to me, there's one section of organic and I noticed some of the brands and I get those, but other than that, It's disgusting. It's so gross. And unfortunately, like most of America is eating that way. So it's just obviously a bigger issue, but it's good to get inspiration from you and kind of get refreshed as we're, it's a summer now, we're going into the fall and we're thinking about back to school and like starting to cook again and getting into that. So it's like, yeah, it's good inspiration to think about some of these things and get those three recipes going. You probably have three.

SPEAKER_01:

I definitely have a few in my back pocket that I, that I defer to a lot, but I need to dive into your recipes. You should have a cookbook. I mean, is there a cookbook coming our way?

SPEAKER_00:

That is the goal. I mean, that is my dream for 2024 and 2025, just because I really want to teach people how to do for themselves what I do and what I've done for the past 10 years for clients. Um, cause everyone should be able to like really make food that is so delicious to them, like you should want to eat at home. So with my family, you know, I'm not married. I don't have kids, but I have parents that love to cook. I have a brother that loves to cook. And so when we all get together, we all, we, we cook at home and we eat at home because our food is so good. We save eating out when we travel together, because we just found that when we were doing family dinners out, we were always so disappointed. I know. And so we could see, we know how to do it better. And so that's where I want a lot of people to get, like, wouldn't it be neat if we got back to a place where people really loved eating their family meals at home and, you know, eating out was a treat. Eating out, we go for the ambiance, we go for the experience, we go for connecting with friends, we go for a lot of different reasons, but it shouldn't be how we nourish ourselves on a day-to-day basis. So that's, that's what I would love to see for, for more people. And you know, the great thing is fall is the best time of year for food. And I think for families, because you can make food that you make it once. you can make double the amount and it gets better when the days pass. You know, chilies, soups, stews, anything that you cook in your slow cooker or in your Dutch oven, you know, lamb shanks, short ribs, all the type of braised meats, which are so good for you when you slow cook them, because now you're getting like more collagen and more nutrients coming off the bone and the bone marrow, and you're getting bone broth and you're getting root vegetables. Like there's so many benefits to that slow cooking after we're just coming off the light cooking of summer. This is, it's a good time to year to to find three new recipes and practice.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Do you have slow cooker recipes on your website?

SPEAKER_00:

I am not a slow cooker fan. I prefer the Dutch oven. So I did a side by side comparison. And I borrowed someone's instapot. And I use the tradition, traditional, you know, Dutch oven, which Le Creuset, Staub, like choose whatever brand.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't have one, but I've been thinking about buying one.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once you buy one and done, like you buy one and you have it for your entire life. And it'll go to a family member when you die. Like that's the great thing. It's like worth every penny. Um, so I cooked the same dish in both containers and the flavor was so much better cooked in the dutch oven and You know, that's when we're talking about energy, right? So i'm cooking in the enamel pot in the oven at a slow heat It's gas that's around it. It's a different energy than the food that's being cooked in the stainless steel container using an electrical outlet. And, you know, the food just wasn't the same. Like the, the deep, the deepness, the depth, um, it tasted more sterile.

SPEAKER_02:

in the stainless steel. The actual oven, not on the stove. Yeah. Oh, I was thinking when you were saying slow cooking, it's like literally on the stovetop all day, still cooking. You're putting it in the oven.

SPEAKER_01:

And the other great thing about the Dutch oven is you can like sear on the stovetop and then transfer it to the oven.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's exactly, that's exactly it. And then you just put it in the oven at a low temperature and you know, you can walk out of the kitchen. You can walk out of the house if you want to for three or four hours, as long as you come home. And And then you come home and you pull it out of the oven, you leave it on top of the stove. And when you're ready, it's still hot and dinner's there. And it usually makes enough food for a following day or two days from now. And it's really grounding food. It really pulls you back into your body. It really makes you feel hugged. And there's definitely a flavor and an energetic difference to food that's cooked in the Dutch oven versus the stainless steel electrical outlet. When we talk about energy transfer, the highest transfer of energy comes from when we cook over fire, which not all of us can do these days because, I mean, who even has a yard where they can just light a fire? Most people don't. So that's why it's really so much fun in the summer to be able to be in parks and to be at the beach and to cook over fire. You know, there is a health benefit to that. And then after that, it's gas. Gas has the next highest energy frequency to fire because it most resembles fire. And then after that is electrical. Electrical is kind of the lowest. And if you talk to anybody who's forced to have an electric oven and an electric stovetop, the food never tastes that good. People hate cooking on it. So there's something there. Even if people can't understand and grasp or believe in frequency and that frequency matters and there's an energy transfer, but I can tell you, you can survey everyone who's forced to cook on an electric oven, an electric stove top, and they hate it. And the people that help us love it and would never switch to electric.

SPEAKER_02:

What's so funny, I never thought about that, like the slow cooker. I mean, I go through phases where I use and I don't use them. I never thought about the fact that you're plugging into the wall. You're getting like fake energy versus like a fire or whatever. And I do notice that every time I do cook in there, it's never good. It's like not flavorful. It's just kind of black.

SPEAKER_00:

Feels like mush. Yeah, there's a depthness that's not there. Yeah, there's another thing I always try to recommend to people, like as we move into this fall season, but they're still fresh tomatoes, is try to avoid buying canned tomatoes for your chilies or canned tomatoes for your stoops and stews. While the fresh ones are still available, just dice up the fresh ones and put them in your soups and stews. Like anytime you can lean to fresh, do that over anything canned, even if your recipe calls for it. Because remember, canned food doesn't have life force energy. It is sterilized food that's meant for emergency situation. It was created so we could feed troops in the middle of nowhere in Europe during World War I and World War II. It's not meant to provide a large energy transfer to you. And you're eating for food and energy. So Like if you are trying to get healthier, if you're trying to lose weight, then you want to find food that's going to give you the biggest bang for your buck, meaning you're going to eat the least amount of food, but get the most energy transfer. You want fresh food, not canned food.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. I would think fresh food that's non-organic is probably better than canned.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I completely agree. What you were saying earlier about the fire, every summer I always crave the ability to cook over fire and wood chips and it just like such a natural way of creating food. And I don't have that set up like I don't have the right grill for it or something, but it is a completely different meal than what you just put on a propane grill or what you make on the stove top with like a really. And I see all of these. I've seen these shows with these really famous chefs that travel the world and they're in Spain and they're cooking over these giant fire. It's like the most amazing meal of their life. And I never thought about it. It's like an energy transfer. It's the raw, natural, most human way of creating food and nourishing your body. It's how it was done for, you know, thousands and thousands of years before we had ovens, before we had stoves. So it's very interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I mean, it tastes so good and it feels so good. yeah and you ultimately like what what what calls you in is man it tastes so good but then you never forget the feeling right you never forget the feeling after the meal and you never forget the feeling you had the next day when you woke up and you're like That was such a nice night. I feel so good this morning. And yeah, I hope we can find more ways. I hope that's a trend that we see is just more accessibility to creating a fire using wood in our backyards or in our neighborhood. And I think we'll see more tools coming out like that.

SPEAKER_01:

I hope so. So before we get into our wrap session, just tell us a little bit about the Kundalini mantras that you put into your spaces and the crystals and everything, because I find that very cool. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, I love using frequency to charge food. And my thought is, you know, I can't be in everyone's kitchen, like using my energy to charge up their food or charge up their kitchen space. So how can I help most people possible through food? And so that's by using a frequency to charge up. the spice blends. So playing Kundalini Mantras 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I go with a few different types of music, whether it's Kundalini Mantras from White Sun or music from Debra Halperin. But when the music's playing 24-7, it charges it up. And then on top of that, I was gifted something called a Quartz Giza Crystal. So it's a type of crystal that never stops growing. It has a center point and they're long sticks and they were found at the bottom of a lake in Arkansas. It's pure quartz, and they were then flown to the Giza Pyramid in Egypt in the early 80s for a special ceremony under a galactic lineup called Pleiadian lineup. There were quite a few famous people that were there for that ceremony, so the crystals got charged in that way. And the person that ran that ceremony gave them to me, and It is believed that the crystals have a frequency that can charge an area as large as like Orange County. And so she's giving them to different people to use in different ways throughout the world. So I use them to charge up the food as well. So using the music with the frequency of the crystal just to add a larger charge of light. So it's just like a little added boost to whoever eats the spice. My goal is to reach people through food. And if that can raise their consciousness, improve their health, just bring more love and joy into their body, into the life, I will have done my job.

SPEAKER_01:

Amazing. Well, I love that you're an Erewhon, and congratulations on that. That's huge. Thank you. Sadly, we don't have any Erewhons near us. But when you visit, when you visit.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, yes. And we can buy it on your website.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's yes. And your website. Tell us one more time. It's at Starseedkitchen.com.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. Great. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, well, let's get into our wrap session.

SPEAKER_02:

You want to kick it off? I can. So we know you're an amazing chef and have all these incredible ingredients. And so I'm assuming you're probably just as intentional with your beauty and wellness routine. So what is your favorite wellness and beauty hack?

SPEAKER_00:

So I'm super into the life, um, life wave patches. Do you guys, are you familiar with them? So every night I wear the X 39 and the all of the patches and I have been wearing them for about definitely over a year now. So the X 39, um, increases the stem cells in my body and the Alavita is for. just like my skin and not needing Botox and just clearing fine lines and wrinkles and improving hair growth. And then I used to do Aeon as well, which helps remove inflammation from the body. But they're just these little patches that you put on different meridian or acupuncture points on your body. And I wear them when I sleep and they do the work when I sleep. And I'm in like Life changing. Um, I know.

SPEAKER_01:

What is the, what, where do we find them? What's the brand? I mean, we'll link it.

SPEAKER_00:

L I F E W A V E life wave life wave patches. It's a company based out of San Diego. They were created for, um, For Navy SEALs because their shifts are over 30 hours long. And so they were starting to like a lot of Navy SEALs were starting to have really bad drug problems because they were trying to stay awake for their full shift and then the crash afterwards. So these patches were created just to improve their health in a variety of ways. Um, and then they've been released to the public and they do wonders. Um, you, you can take before and after photos of yourself and you know, see a physical change. Wow. how you look in the best way, more youthful, younger, softer, and physically you feel a lot better. They help you heal from injuries faster. Huge fan. Yeah. Sell them online lifeway.com, but you have to use them consistently. So like it takes like a solid three months, but that's like one of my favorite hacks. That's very cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's a great one. I love when we learn something like that.

SPEAKER_00:

That's why we're in this game. Yeah. Yeah. I love this too. Like I want to hear what you're really into right now. All right.

SPEAKER_01:

And the next one we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and Uber's pinged you. What are you doing to get yourself together and quickly get into that Uber? Like what are your go-tos, your holy grails to get out there?

SPEAKER_00:

I would put on a serum. So right now I'm using one of Tata Harper's serums. So I would just get out of the shower, put on a serum. If I wanted to look, I'm like a very all natural girl. But if I wanted to do something a little bit more, I love the glow sunscreen that has a little bit of a tint. a glow brand sunscreen, there's a tinted one. I'll throw that on. I always, I love mascara. So I'll do mascara, that, a little blush. I have 50 million lip glosses because I'm obsessed. And like, that's all I would do. And then I would put on earrings and a necklace. I always wear the same ones, just like super simple studs. And then I, yeah, And then figure out like what makes me comfortable and walk out the door. Yeah. Nice. Love it. Yeah. I'd probably put my hair up in a bun or a pony.

SPEAKER_02:

Any favorite lip gloss brands while we have you at Lipstick?

SPEAKER_00:

No, nothing right now. Yeah. Nothing right now. I'm ready for an overhaul. Yeah. There's nothing I'm really super loving. Like when it comes to the skincare game, to the makeup game, I want a whole new experience. So That's kind of just moving through the summer just to get to fall so I can just throw everything out and start new.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, and then how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

SPEAKER_00:

Being outside. I have to find a way to walk. Like for me, I'm a big walker. I'll go tonight after dinner. I think I'm going to do like a sunset hike. That'll be bliss today. But I, I mean, I, I prefer walking first thing in the morning when it's quiet out, you know, I love it when it's quiet. It's cool. Anywhere you go outside first thing in the morning is it's kind of bliss nirvana to me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, totally. Amazing. Where can we find you? So we know we have your website now. I know you have a podcast. Can you tell our listeners your podcast, your Instagram, all the things?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So my podcast is the High Vibration Living Podcast because I'm like you guys. I just love talking about this stuff and love learning about the other tools that I can put in my tool belt that I can lean on when I need to be uplifted or I need to make edits. You can find me on Instagram at Whitney Aronoff and my brand, Starseed Kitchen, and then my website, starseedkitchen.com. And then I also have a YouTube channel with tons of videos there, cooking videos and videos from the podcast. Again, just Whitney Aronoff. Those are the best places to find me.

SPEAKER_02:

Amazing. Well, this has been so enlightening. I feel like, yeah, I'm so excited to research and you've inspired me to like get back into, you know, the cooking cooking game. So I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I'm going to be doing your quite a few of your recipes. I can tell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, message me any time. And the next time you guys are out here, we'll go to Erewhon for lunch.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 156 -Getting Real About Root Canals: Myths, Tips, And Your Oral Microbiome With Dr. Sonia Chopra (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast episode 156.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Nirvana Sisters Podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well-being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters-in-law and your hosts.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome to the show, Nirvana Sisters family. Today, we are sitting down with Dr. Sonia Chopra. Dr. Sonia Chopra is a healer and a truth saver. She is a board certified endodontist, TEDx speaker, Forbes contributor, author, endodontic instructor, impact entrepreneur, and founder of the Ballantine Endodontics in Charlotte, North Carolina. Dr. Chopra became passionate about endodontics after a young dental patient was misdiagnosed and had a painful experience. The wrong tooth was extracted. It wasn't until she was referred to a caring endodontist that she was correctly diagnosed and a root canal saved her from pain. Now, Dr. Chopra is on a mission to save teeth wherever possible. On top of running her thriving practice, Dr. Chopra provides groundbreaking digital education and community support to general dentists and endodontists who want to up-level their technical skills, patient experience, and practice efficiency. through her thoughtfully designed courses and in-person programs, such as her award-winning e-school. She's revolutionizing endodontic continuing education through comprehensive lessons. That you are incredibly dynamic and sound like you must be very busy. A little bit.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I have three beautiful kids to add into all that. Oh, wow. So, yeah. Yeah. Life is full. Well, thank you for your time today. Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk about my passion with you. It's hard for people to want to talk about teeth, so I'm grateful to you both.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we're excited to talk about it. Before we get into it, let's do our Nirvana of the Week. Amy, why don't you kick us off?

SPEAKER_00:

OK, so I recently took inspo from Katie and I got a new piece of exercise equipment called the Tonal, which I love. Katie's had it for a long time and I've been like wanting to try it. And so I actually sold my Peloton bike and I got the Tonal. And I just started using it, but I already love it. It's just so cool and so different. And I just feel good because I, I still have my Peloton tread, which I still use happily. And I do a lot of Pilates and yoga, but I was just missing having more of the weight training. And like, I love having just like instruction, someone telling me what to do. So I've just, I've done it a few times this week and I'm really liking it. I just feel like I feel really good from it. So thanks for the inspo, Katie. And that was, that's been a fun Nirvana this week. What about you, Katie? Nice.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I was excited to hear about the review on it. Yeah, I would say I had a girl's dinner the other night, which was so much fun. I don't usually socialize during the week. It's just like it's I mean, as we all know, it's hard to do. But once you get there, it's so worth it. And then I always so worried that the next morning I'm going to just be exhausted. And I was more energized than ever because, you know, it filled my cup. It was great to have some laughs with some friends and some great conversation. So it was nice. So I think that was definitely mine this week. What about you, Dr. Sonia?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I, I got a little bit of nice feedback from one of my students, um, this week and it's, it's always nice when you, um, when someone actually shares the impact that you make on them. Cause a lot of times they keep it to themselves. So I got some good feedback this week, which was really, you know, just warmed my heart. So that's mine. That's great.

SPEAKER_02:

All right, well, let's get right into it. So we want to kick off with talking about oral microbiome. I think this is a newer topic for a lot of listeners, and maybe you could break that down for us a little bit. What is your oral microbiome? How do we take care of it? What is impacting it, et cetera?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so our oral microbiome is really unique to each and every individual. And I think it's something that we need to start talking about because what is happening in our mouth and the environment in our mouth is really the gateway to the rest of our body. And up until now, I feel like people just kind of you know, maybe just didn't really understand or under undervalued or maybe just didn't pay attention to what was happening in our mouths. And I think things are changing now. And now people are trying to get a little bit more specific about what's happening to them. And one thing I want to say is that our environments and our mouths It's just like our DNA. It's very specific to each individual and every person is going to be different and unique with how we show up in our own microbiome in our mouths and also how we take care of those oral microbiome. So it's really the ecosystem in our mouth and how can we really nurture it and how can we take care of it and how can we really focus even on prevention to make sure that we can live long and healthy lives starting with our mouth.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, excellent. So let's get into that a little bit. What are some things that we should be doing to take care of our... Actually, just to go back a quick second, does your oral microbiome impact the health of your teeth? I know that seems like an obvious, but I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So basically what we're talking about are the several hundreds of species of bacteria that exist in our mouth. And what can we do to make sure that those guys inside are playing well with each other and making sure that we maintain a level of homeostasis that is beneficial to us? The idea is not to get rid of these bacteria. We know that we need a healthy gut microbiome. And this is just the first part of that gut microbiome. So yeah, we're not trying to eliminate things. We're just wanting to make sure that we create this homeostasis that works well for us. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02:

It does. Yeah. And what gets us to that homeostasis of a healthy microbiome?

SPEAKER_01:

So I tell people it's really easy to avoid somebody like me. I haven't ended on it, so I'm a root canal specialist. So most people don't want to meet me. And for the most part, with the exception of maybe some trauma and an accident, right? Like you should be able to prevent being in my chair. And so that's really what I want to focus on because it's easy to really keep your dental costs down and also try to really avoid not needing that root canal. And it's simple. So I tell everyone, brush twice a day. And you would think that most people do, but it's really interesting how many people don't. And the cost of a toothbrush and toothpaste is so much cheaper than a root canal and a crown, right? I will say flossing every day is really hard for some people. And you know, I hang out with a lot of like biohackers and so they'll be like, they'll cold plunge and sauna and alternate that for like 20 minutes, but they won't floss. And so again, a cheap spool of floss is really, really easy to buy as opposed to a $1,500 root canal. So that right there is gonna keep you out of my chair, like by 80%. And then, of course, keeping up with your dental appointments and not really allowing them to lapse so that the dentist can find your issues while they're small, as opposed to getting big and needing to be referred to my practice. If you just kind of pay a little bit for those two visits a year, again, big savings in the long run, in my opinion. If you clench and grind, or if you find that you are a stressed out person and, you know, some people don't just grind at night, they grind at their desk and they're inducing cracks in their teeth, you know, finding a way to manage that, again, with a night guard. Again, it may be a little bit of an expense on the front end, but maybe you're going to prevent root canals on the back end. So that's where I want to focus like the prevention. It's just really simple daily routines and then sometimes an intervention twice a year. and keeping up with your cleanings as well. That's pretty much it. And you can really keep your dental costs down. I think there's a belief that you need to have dental insurance to do those things and go to the dentist, but that's not the case. A lot of times, dental offices will have their own in-house kind of insurance plan to help you keep your costs down. So if you are not covered, you can still go in and get those services done at a very reasonable cost. And, you know, again, we can find things when they're small. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I have a question about. outside things that can impact the health of your teeth and of your mouth that, aside from the obvious, of course, like sugar and drinking sodas and things, and then everything you said, people that don't have proper dental hygiene, are there some factors that can affect the health of your teeth? Like I have to take glucocorticoid steroids. And so those, I have had a lot of problems with my teeth and I've had dentists tell me that it's because I am dependent on these steroids. Are there certain, does medication affect your teeth health? What are some of those that maybe people don't understand and that's why they're struggling so much?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so there are a number of medications that can actually dry out your mouth and affect your saliva constitution. And saliva is super important. Saliva is your mouth's buffer. And when you have something sugary, and it doesn't just have to be plain old sugar, like anytime you ingest a carbohydrate, you are going to drop the pH in your mouth. and then it's going to become acidic. And when it becomes acidic, then it's going to attack the enamel, break down the enamel, and that's how you're going to create decay. So I don't want there to be this belief that it has to only be sugar or sodas or stuff like that. Any carbohydrate is actually going to make that decrease in the pH. When you don't have saliva, saliva is the buffer. So if our body wants to stay at that level seven, that saliva is necessary. So the moment you have an impact on your saliva, and that could be through medication, sometimes you can have, you know, a disorder or like some sort of disease like Sjogren's, where it attacks your salivary glands and you no longer can produce saliva. Anytime you impact the saliva production in your mouth, your buffering capability in your mouth is going to be impacted, and then you won't have that protection layer that you have from that saliva, and so you're going to get more cavities in somebody like that. And so if you do have that issue, and this is why I know fluoride is such a hot topic, but some people do need it. And people who have difficult manual dexterity, maybe they have arthritis in their hands and they can't brush and floss. you and I could. They're going to need some extra help with fluoride or maybe they had had a neck radiation and they don't have saliva production anymore. You may have to add some fluoride to their regimen because you don't want them to develop decay. So there are some benefits of things like fluoride, even though I feel like a lot of people think it's really taboo. But when you need it, it's important. And if you see that you are prone to cavities, you may want to see what's up with your saliva and if there's anything impacting your saliva, like something as simple as a high blood pressure medication can actually impact your saliva.

SPEAKER_00:

Interesting. Yeah. I want to go back to what you just said about fluoride, because I know There's a lot of conversation about it and I don't really understand. So can you break down like what people are talking about, like fluoride, not fluoride, like why it's bad, why it's good, et cetera?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they believe it's a toxin. And I think probably anything in life if taken too much is a toxin. Yeah. But there are some medical benefits to it. There are some dental benefits. So, of course, if you take too much, it's not good. Right. But there is this happy I remember learning that it was about one part per million. So when you're looking at like well water versus city water, city water typically has the fluoride and well water doesn't. And also if you're using things like reverse osmosis in your household, you know, it's going to take certain things out and then you may no longer have fluoride. But if you have just that right level of fluoride, when you're in the growth and development stage, it can be very beneficial to children. Okay. And that's why they would put it in city water. But the moment you go above certain levels, you can actually create staining on the teeth, like this white kind of chalky look. And so, you know, you're getting too much. So testing your water is important to making sure you know what levels you're getting, if you're getting any at all, because if you're not and you have Your oral microbiome is what we call karyogenic, meaning your bacteria in your mouth causes decay or cavities. Because all of our mouths are going to be different. My teeth get cavities very easily. So when I was younger, I needed fluoride. I did not need fluoride. I don't need it into my adulthood, but during my growth and development, I did need it. My daughter's the same way. When I took her to the, and I'm a dentist, so I was so mortified. I took her to the dentist. Her first visit, she had eight cavities because I was like, no fluoride. I wouldn't let her use fluoride in her toothpaste. And then she got eight cavities. I literally got scolded by the dentist and I was like, Oh my gosh, I need to change something. The only thing I changed in her was her fluoride toothpaste and she stopped getting the cavity. So for her, she needs it. Why? Because she's got mama's bugs. I gave her her oral microbiome. My other children don't have that problem, but she did. And so again, you can see just within our own family, the oral microbiome is different. So one daughter needed fluoride, the other two don't. As their teeth, like, as she goes through growth and development, as children develop manual dexterity, then, you know, you can kind of trust them to take care of their teeth and then also not rely on things like fluoride. Make sense?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it definitely makes sense. And I think for children, I mean, one of my daughters is horrible with her hygiene and my other one is excellent with it. But even the one that is excellent with it, she has the dexterity. It's really hard. So I'm going to make sure that they have fluoride in there. and their products but it's also I want to I just want to say really quickly because it's something that I've always felt and the last time I saw a dentist she spoke to me about it to to your point of what you just said is that some people just have it's almost like the DNA is to have a harder time with your teeth no matter how excellent your dental hygiene is and so there can be like embarrassment behind it and shame behind it and so you know for a long time I'd be like embarrassed to go to the dentist and and this dentist told me very clearly she said there's this is just the way that your mouth is and I I have a lot of patients that feel embarrassed about their teeth and you shouldn't because you could be doing everything right and still have a hard time. Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

And that, that's me. Like I always had eight cavities every time I went to the dentist. I even like, if I don't floss every day, like I can feel my teeth are just fuzzy. It just feels full in my mouth. And so I need to do that. And I look at my husband. And he can get away with doing nothing for weeks. If I skip one day of flossing, I feel it and my gums start to bleed. His don't. Me too.

SPEAKER_00:

I love flossing. It's like a massage.

SPEAKER_01:

Totally different oral microbiome between people. And so that's why I think it's really important. There are plenty of dental influencers out there who will say you don't need to floss, and then people are going to stop flossing. And that's not beneficial for that individual, that particular person. And so I think we really have to be careful what we say and who we say it to, because it is dependent on who you are as a person.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And trust the professionals. Don't listen to people online that are

SPEAKER_02:

That's wild that people are saying that you should have flossed. I know. Influencers are trying to de-influence flossing. That's insane.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it happens. I see it all the time. Like, that's not good advice. Like, you know, and luckily now, and it's very new, but they're starting to become those kits, you know, like how you can test like 23andMe, you can test your DNA and stuff. Now you can start to test your oral microbiome. It is very new. Oh, wow. I just did one. It didn't really give me much information yet, but I think it's starting to come on the scene. So you can start to see, do you have the bugs that cause decay, or do you have the bugs that cause periodontal disease, or do you have both, or do you have none? And it would be nice to know that so that you know, hey, maybe you need to go for cleanings more than twice a year. Okay, and you don't have to see the evidence of the destruction before to say, yeah, I want my teeth cleaned three or four times a year as opposed to two.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. OK, so let's get into some root canal myths, because Amy, have you had a root canal? I have. I've had a couple.

SPEAKER_00:

I had one and it was well, it actually I was so nervous about it because I had this like cavity. I thought whatever. And to your point, I go to the dentist, you know, every six months. And it was like we were watching it. And then it got to a point where like it was really throbbing. It was like I was in so much pain. And this was actually during COVID when I had to get the root canal and I was like so scared. And it was Not fun, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's like debunking a myth for sure. I don't think they're as bad as people think they are. Like I've had a few and it's not it's not a fun experience, but it's like the pain. If you have pain in your tooth and you go get a root canal, your pain is instantly gone.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I was like so miserable that I was like, I've got to get this fixed immediately. And you're right. You leave and you're just sore. But then you like you don't have that pain.

SPEAKER_02:

So it's much worse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I get it. We're not giving you a facial in that chair. But we are giving you, you know, we are helping to heal you, which is great. And we do rescue so many people. So if you could find a way to, I mean, I give my patients Valium to just kind of take the edge off. They kind of doze off a little bit. I also have a TV that as they recline, it reclines back with them so they can, you know, Netflix. Netflix and chill in the chair, you know? I mean, there's ways that we can make it a good time pass, a good enough time pass where you're like, you get out of the chair and you're like, that was it? Like, that's the reaction we want, you know? Because there's a lot of personal beliefs, again, that we can't debunk on a patient who's pretty apprehensive. We just have to do it and then they believe us after, at the end, right? I think myth number one is root canals are not as bad as you think they are. And if you can request things like Valium and a TV or headphones and music, and we could just kind of get you through it as quickly as possible. Nowadays, root canals, I would say 95% of my cases I do in one visit and you're done in an hour and a half. Now, there are some teeth that are more infected than we would like to see or they're just harder treatments. So I would say worst case scenario, it could be a two visit appointment. Usually doesn't make it twice as expensive. It's just we need more time and we need your body to kind of like be done clearing this infection before we can finalize the root canal.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that makes sense. The headphones thing is really a good tip for any of you listeners that don't like dental work, listening to music or just anything while you're getting it done, I think helps a lot, right? Do a lot of people do that with you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, like, I have a TV and I offer headphones, but if your dentist doesn't, like, bring your iPhone, listen to this podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Right. Because the worst thing is hearing the sound. Yeah. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01:

Agreed. And then crank it up. Like, if I tell my patients, I'll tap on you if I need you. Otherwise, like, ignore me. I'm going to get you out of here in no time.

SPEAKER_00:

What's so funny, because I remember I feel like I was talking about it on the show, Katie, when I got the root canal, because I was like, it wasn't as bad as I thought. And I was like, I actually like it was so nice to like lay there for an hour and do nothing. Yeah. Literally just let it doze off. Yeah. I was like, when do you get time to just sit there and doze off?

SPEAKER_01:

That's how it's kind of the same feeling you get when you travel without your children. Right. On the plane. I don't love being on a plane. Right. But you're like, I'm here by myself. It's kind of relaxing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's so true.

SPEAKER_02:

So funny. Do you ever find yourself when you're traveling without your children? Just like I have brought all this is a tangent, but I'll bring all the things I have, like the magazines and the podcast downloaded and all the stuff. But I just sit there in the silence. It's like just having the peace and quiet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Anyway, I digress.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I agree with that one. So tell us about some modern advancements in root canals. It has been a couple years since I've had one. I'm curious if anything has changed since.

SPEAKER_01:

It's crazy. So I opened my practice 16 years ago and I swear every couple years there's a new piece of technology that just changes the game. And so now even like I would say the biggest advancements came in 2012 and 2018. So, you know, there's a lot of people who haven't had a root canal in a long time. Things are totally different. And how we treat teeth now is so different than before that I really hope that this knowledge helps debunk the myths that like root canals are toxic because it's crazy what we can treat. Like we know that there's a lot of connections on the anatomy. Like the canals aren't just like these straight canals. They're canals that go down and they have little branches. And nowadays, like when I graduated my residency, I was only treating somebody's tooth through a microscope. So not like those little glasses with the magnifiers on them. I have a microscope that comes out of my wall and I look through this giant thing and I do the whole procedure through the microscope. So that helps me find these itty bitty canals. But then there's still smaller tributaries, which you can't see. And then we started using 3D technology. So it's called a cone beam image, and it's basically, it looks like a Panerex. So sometimes patients can get confused whether they got a Panerex or a 3D image. Panerex is still a two-dimensional image, and the cone beam is a three-dimensional image. And we can see the tooth in this direction, this direction, like side to side, front and back, and then up and down. And it's really cool what kind of anatomy we can see. And then from understanding anatomy a little bit more, we realized, okay, we need something better than just those little reamers that go up and down your tooth to clean out your tooth. So now we have two pieces of technology. One is the gentle wave, which is like a power wash for the tooth. If I can explain it and simplify terms, basically what it does is It creates a closed seal, closed system with your tooth and this handpiece goes on the tooth. We build this little platform and the handpiece sits on it and it creates this closed system. And then it pulls all the air out of the tooth because if there's any air bubbles when we're like rinsing your tooth out with a disinfectant, with a normal hand syringe, Bubbles are going to form in that tooth, and those bubbles are going to prevent that disinfectant from going down all the way to the tip. And root canals only work if you find all the canals and get to the end of every canal. So this pulls out all that air, and then it uses sound waves to pump the solution through your tooth, getting into all those inner connections. So now when I look at a root canal that I've filled on the x-ray, you can see that I've filled all the connections. It's really kind of neat. And then the last piece of technology that we use is also a laser in order to help disinfect. So, I mean, these things were just not a part of my armamentarium in 2008 to 2012. Like there were four years where I just went the, you know, the way I was taught in my residency. And now I'm a completely different ended honest. And we're seeing things heal like we've never seen before. So typically when patients have an issue and the dentist sees it on an x-ray, there's a dark shadow. So I don't know if they were watching like a dark shadow on your tooth before you had that root canal. And that's a sign of bone loss. And so when bacteria gets into the tooth, whether it's from a cavity, whether we've cracked a tooth and created that doorway for bacteria to get in, The bacteria wants to go to the source. The food is the pulp. And they go to the pulp and they eat up the pulp and they kill the pulp. And once the pulp dies, the bacteria just kind of stays in that housing of the canals. Then the bone around the tooth starts to respond. And the response is that the bone pulls away from the tooth because it doesn't want to hang out with a dirty grin, right? So the bone pulls away and you get the shadowing in the x-ray. It takes a while for this to show up. isn't like a long-standing problem. You won't see it on an x-ray. That's the problem with the two-dimensional. And now working with the 3D, we're able to pick up on these infections a lot faster and then heal them a lot quicker instead of letting them fester to the point where they get really big and then they're detectable on 2D. So when we do the root canal, um, and we eliminate all that bacteria, those dark shadows disappear and they disappear because we as humans have this amazing superpower. We can actually regenerate our own bone. So I don't know if you went for a followup or if you had that black shadow, if they followed you up to show you the evidence that you not only saved your tooth, but you also regenerated bone.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know if I had a follow-up, I can't remember. But I might have, yeah. I mean, it doesn't hurt, and I have never had a problem since, so I'm assuming everything's fine, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and that's one of the problems is that a lot of people don't show up for their follow-ups. I tell them, I'm like, you get a free checkup one year after this visit. But many people, they say just that, oh, it doesn't hurt, and they probably forget. But I'm like, no, I want to see you back. But they think they don't need to come because they don't have any pain. But some people have come back and they still have a problem. So I want to encourage people to make sure you keep your follow-up so that we make sure that, you know, we are seeing the evidence of healing.

SPEAKER_02:

How many canals are in a tooth? It depends.

SPEAKER_01:

Every tooth is different. Okay. Yeah. So, um, yeah, it all depends.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, like what's a ballpark? Is it 2? Is it 20? We have no idea.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so let me walk you through the mouth. So the front of the mouth, you'll have like one canal to maybe 2, and then it's typically around 2 around the premolars, and then the molars have 3, 4, but sometimes we've been able to find 5 or 6. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. Interesting. I never thought I would learn so much about teeth.

SPEAKER_01:

This is so interesting. Are you okay? Am I able to show you something like? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Because we're on video.

SPEAKER_01:

So we can show it. Can I, I can share my screen? I just feel like this is what makes it like, yeah. Okay. So this is a patient who had some pain swelling, right? Like the body notified him like, Hey, there's a problem. He went to his dentist and you see this big black shadow, like here to here, that that's not normal. Okay. And so the dentist was like, okay, send him to me. And it looks like it's covering this is tooth number two, three and four. It looks like it's like engulfing three teeth. OK, so this is what 3D looks like. So let me just go back. This is a two dimensional image. And this is the three. Okay. So you can see the clarity is so much different, right? And again, now you see that dark shadow. So this is what normal bone looks like over here, this white, and this is where the bone is getting eaten away. This is just a response. This is not the infection. This is the body's response. This is what your immune response is when there's bacteria in these canals. Okay. I mean, this is huge, like his whole maxilla, like one side of his maxilla is missing. So here's the other problem is most, some dentists would be like, you need three root canals, which is pretty expensive. Other dentists would be like, that's not fixable. All of these three teeth need to come out. And this is where I, why I'm on this mission, because I want to empower patients to really understand, because sometimes you're gonna get a dentist with a different belief system than what's actually happening. So I did the root canal. I actually, when you do the testing, you'll see like a nerve that doesn't feel cold. So we'll do this cold test on teeth. The one that doesn't feel cold is the one responsible to all these, so to this black shadow. Okay. So this tooth did not feel cold. These teeth did. So that means that the nerve is alive and well in these teeth. This one didn't feel cold. So even though it looked like three teeth were contributing to this area, it was really the culprit of one. So that diagnosis is so, so, so important. Okay. And actually when the patient was referred to me, this is the tooth that was circled on the referral slip. Oh wow. So the dentist thought it was this tooth, but that tells me he didn't do any testing. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so not only not only did you save two of his teeth, but you also saved him from being misdiagnosed and having bigger problems after losing one tooth.

SPEAKER_01:

And I will say it's not the dentist's fault. It's really the dental education, because we get two weeks crash course in root canals and four years of dental school. And, you know, we only have to do two to four root canals in order to graduate dental school, and then we can go do it on our own.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow. Yeah. And then being an endodontist is, is that a specialty that you do? Correct. In addition to your dental school.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So I went to another two years and then I had to do another 250 cases on just that procedure in dentistry, no other procedure. So, um, that's why I would, my personal preference, if I need a root canal, I'm going to see a specialist cause I know that's what they do all day, all night. Some people really want their dentist to be a jack-of-all-trades. I'm not that type of person.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, my dentist, like, doesn't do root canals. He always sends people to an endodontist, which I would, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And you want to trust people with boundaries, right? Right. So on the picture on the left is that preoperative image where we hadn't done treatment yet. And the picture on the right is you can see the root canal filling. You can see that means that this tooth only had three canals. Okay, not four. Typically, these maxillary molars have four, but this one only had three. But now, 11 months later, you can see the bone is starting to regenerate and fill back in. But this was a monster of an infection, so I knew it wasn't going to be all healed up in a year. It's probably going to take a few years.

SPEAKER_02:

When you lose that much, so the bone regenerates. But if the infection is bad enough and it doesn't get taken care of and the bone just continues to regenerate, what does that do? So I'm sorry, the bone continues to not regenerate, but if the bone continues to get eaten away and it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So sometimes you have to also do surgery. But again, that's why we want to catch things while they're small. Right. But again, a well done root canal. will allow your body to regenerate. That's the key. There's just so many not so good root canals in the world that that's why people think they're toxic. Because we only needed to do two to graduate. We can do it. We don't have the proper armamentarium or, you know, we're doing it to the best of our ability. The problem is our ability wasn't like really taught that well. Right. And so 50% of my practice is redos of root canals. So let's say, cause you know, I'm not a hundred percent, I'll never be right. I'll be about 97% success rate, but when my stuff doesn't work, that doesn't mean I can't try again. So we retreat, right? Just like when people get a knee replacement, sometimes a surgeon has to go back in and do a revision. It's just biology. Sometimes that happens and we need to, but those instances are small. Sure. Okay. So let me just point out here, you can see even this wall of bone is back, right? And all this bone is growing inwards. And then two years later, I mean, look at the bone that shadows going away. This is going to take about four years to fully grow back in. But like, look at the bone is coming back. That's amazing. And without a graft, right? Like you don't, you don't need all that stuff. Um, so let me show you another one, not this one, because it does not prove a point. Let me find one of a, ah, this is a good one. Okay. So this one, the root canal has been done. It's not a great root canal, okay? So I can show you here, this is the 3D. Now I'm looking at it in a cross section. You can see there's one, two, three canals filled, but what about this guy, right? If we don't follow the rules, if we don't find every canal and get to the end of every canal, we're gonna have a problem. And you can see in this angle, you can actually see the canal here, okay? And then we can see that the border of the maxillary sinus is getting eaten away as well. And the membrane of the sinus is actually getting thicker, which is a response to the tooth infection. This is a really good picture where you can see the border of the maxillary sinus is gone. It's been eaten from the infection. But we are regenerative humans, so we can actually grow that back. So now you can see the root canal has been redone. I redid it. And there's one, two, three, four canals found. Okay. And one year later, look at that border of the maxillary sinus is completely restored and all this cloudy thickening mucus junk is gone. Wow. And so that when we do a good root canal, we can actually regenerate ourselves inside. And that's the coolest part.

SPEAKER_02:

It's it's incredibly cool. I have a question about the site. So that where you said the gray, like mucus in the sinus, does that actually impact your sinuses? Like, would that person be experiencing stuffy nose and pressure and congestion?

SPEAKER_01:

Probably just on one side. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

A hundred percent. And this is how it impacts like your breath. And we all know like breathing and breath work is so important. Right. And it'll impact your sleep too. Wow. So a hundred percent. I've cured a lot of sinusitis by doing root canals. Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02:

A lot of symptoms aside from just a toothache, right, are potential that people maybe don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

This person's had a root canal, right? So they're not going to get the sharp pain. They're going to feel like it'll be intermittent because what happens in a moment like this is like, OK, your body is smart. The immune system is smart. the infection will grow, right? And then the body will mount an immune reaction, and then it'll push it down, right? And then it'll think, oh, I won, and then it'll back off. And now this bacteria has the ability to regrow. And then the body will be like, hey, I thought I got rid of you, right? And then it'll mount a response and then push it back down. So the patient won't be in constant pain. It's intermittent, right? And so they'll be like, oh, it went away or, oh, there was a bubble. I popped it. No, that bubble is your cue that something's wrong. You know, even though it goes away or you think it went away, there's still something happening underneath.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Pain is the body's way of saying something's wrong. Yeah. Right. That's right.

SPEAKER_00:

Fascinating. It is fascinating. Thank you for that lesson. I know. I loved it. I know.

SPEAKER_01:

I hate to like geek out on you, but I know it's so cool.

SPEAKER_00:

We love it. We love it. OK, so back to so we were talking about the daily routine. So the brushing, the flossing mandatory. OK, right. What about like what are your thoughts on? Because we've talked about this in the show a lot, like tongue scraping, oil pulling, things like that. Helpful, not helpful. Neutral. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01:

So I think It's great if you can do all those things. But I think they're all an adjunct to the brushing and the flossing and the checkups, right? Yeah. I am a tongue scraper. I love it. Me too. I love it. I need to do it twice a day. So if you can do that, that's great. Um, you couldn't pay me to oil pull because I find it, I cannot, I never done it. I can't tolerate it. And maybe it's cause I don't love pulling with coconut oil, but I do believe you can pull with different kinds of oils. So I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I don't think it's a replacement for other things. Whereas again, you'll find dental influencers that'll say, don't floss, just oil pull. I, the, here's the difference in flossing. So when you brush, you're basically breaking up bacterial colonies, right? You're making sure that they don't grow and proliferate to the point of a biofilm. Okay. Um, when you brush, you can't get the contact point. So your teeth touch, right? And when you floss, you hear that click, right? That click is the contact point. That is the point that a waterpig, a toothbrush, mouthwash, none of those things can reach. And that's the point where the bacteria will love to just stick. and cultivate and that's where they burrow in the teeth. And then you can't even see it. You can't look in the mirror and be like, oh, I got a black spot because you won't see that. You can only pick that up with imaging and you'll need bite-wing x-rays to get that. So again, you may not think you have a problem because there's no pain because bacteria are smart. They're very smart. They don't want to be found out. They will only make noise when they hit the pulp and it's actually your body making the noise then. So Really going for those checkups, flossing, and brushing, those are, I think, critical. And then anything on top of that, I think, is just the cherry on top.

SPEAKER_02:

So you do or you don't think that oil pulling can have benefits?

SPEAKER_01:

I do think it can. I also think that there's going to be different oils that are going to be better for different people. Like just kind of knowing a little bit of Ayurveda, like for my particular like dosha, like I'm probably better off with sesame oil than coconut oil. And again, you couldn't pay me to swish with coconut oil. I'm like, Oh, I can put it in my coffee, but I cannot swish with it in my mouth. But I think for my, I think for my body, sesame oil is probably better. So I do think there's benefits, but I also think, you know, saltwater is a little, is also antibacterial naturally. So you can rinse with that. I don't love mouthwashes because again, you're going to kill the bacteria and you don't want to get rid of them. You just want to keep them stable.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, really? I use mouthwash all the time. I feel like after I floss, I have to do the mouthwash.

SPEAKER_02:

You have to do like a rinse to get it out, right? That feeling. But so you can rinse with salt water. I started using the TOMS of Maine, all natural products. Would that also kill the bacteria, that type of mouthwash, a natural mouthwash?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm sure there's some with like essential oils that would be just fine. You know, but I, I wouldn't be too dependent on them. The ones that are blue, like the Listerines and stuff, number one, they have alcohol in them and they can really. Like just kind of kill your mucosa. Um, I would probably stay away from the blue stuff.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. That's good. All right. Well, then speaking of products, what are some of your favorite dental products that you like? Like what's your, what toothpaste do you use? What's your favorite toothbrush, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01:

My favorite toothbrush is a Sonicare toothbrush. Because I like the sonic action because that also helps lace the cell wall of bacteria. So the actual motion allows me to be gentle on my gums because if I'm using a manual one, even if it's a soft one, I'll be really heavy handed. Whereas the sonic toothbrush just lets it, I just stand there and let it do the work. Right. So I like an electrical toothbrush and my vote goes for Sonicare over Oral-B or anything like that. I don't get paid to say that, just so you know. And then my favorite floss is probably Coco Floss because there is coconut oil in it. And I like the fact that it's expansive. So like it'll go in thin, but then it'll expand and grab and then I can pull out. Oh, nice. I haven't heard of that one. Yeah. I like Coco Floss a lot. Yeah, so what about toothpaste? I haven't found one that I love, but honestly, like even if you brush without toothpaste, it's fine because it's the mechanical movement that's doing more of the of the job than the actual toothpaste itself. So depending on where you are in your life or growth and development, figure out what's good for you, what you need in that moment. If you do need fluoride, if you don't need fluoride, if you need something that's sensitive based, maybe you got a recent filling and you're having some normal post-op pain and you just want to increase the speed to normal feeling again. Like sometimes I'll tell people to use a Sensodyne toothpaste for eight weeks because it'll reverse that sensitivity quickly, and then you can go back to a regular toothpaste. I'm currently using a Crest Deep Clean, but I feel like sometimes toothpastes are like deodorants. You kind of have to cycle through, like all of a sudden it stops working for you.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, it's funny that you said that about the tooth sensitivity, because I haven't really had any recently, but I was at the dentist once and the dental hygienist told me that if I was having sensitivity, like in my gums or my tooth, just to take toothpaste and like put it on there and just let it sit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But a Sensodyne toothpaste would be better because... Yeah, Sensodyne, because that's what I use.

SPEAKER_00:

And it does help. I was like, OK. And then I I've tried that a few times when my teeth feel sensitive and it totally works.

SPEAKER_01:

So that was a cool little hack. When you're bleaching your teeth, it's a good hack, too, because I don't know if you've ever bleached your teeth and it works so bad. It's hard for me to bleach my teeth because I'm so sensitive to cold after that. But if you put Sensodyne toothpaste in there, then on your teeth after you do it, you won't be as sensitive during bleaching.

SPEAKER_02:

So after the bleaching or after like even a whitening strip, once you take it off?

SPEAKER_01:

Whitening strips aren't going to be as sensitive as like if you had like a tray and then they give you the take-home bleach or if you do an in-office. In-office is the strongest. The bleaching tray is kind of like the middle of the road. And then the strips are like your over-the-counter least amount of percentage. I'm sure that one would hurt me, too, because my teeth are just so sensitive.

SPEAKER_02:

They bother me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I can't even drink ice water. It's just not on my diet. Like, I don't understand how people can freeze grapes or put cannoli in the fridge.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. I can't do that either. How do people do that?

SPEAKER_01:

I know. So, I have to put Sensodyne on my teeth after I use my bleaching trays. Okay. It helps. It really does help. So, if you find it with your With your strips, try that trick and it might not be as.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm going to. Yeah. Cause it's like the first day or two that I do them, it's fine. But then like the third or fourth day I start to get the little zaps, you know, like it gets uncomfortable. I'm not going to tell my 10 year old that you said that toothpaste can come or go. You can take it or leave it because. She always pretends she's putting the toothpaste on, but then we look and she's really not.

SPEAKER_01:

The bristles are more important than the stuff. I just got to know. It's called dry brushing, right? So as long as you can break up the colonies, that's what they used to teach us in the hygiene part of dental school. It's like dry brush. If you can do nothing else, dry brush.

SPEAKER_02:

I've heard conflicting opinions on toothbrushes for children. I've I have had some dentists say get the like the sonic care and then I've had other dentists say don't do that because it teaches it prevents them from learning how to like brush properly. So what do you suggest?

SPEAKER_01:

It's funny because I don't think anyone brushes and flosses properly. Well, let's talk about that. What does properly mean, right? So really, ideally, so if you look at a tooth and you look at the tissue, like that junction of the tooth and the tissue, there is actually like a moat that goes around the tooth. Okay. And, um, that moat is where the plaque likes to accumulate. Okay. So ideally you want to get your bristles to go under that moat and shake. That gingival collar, you want bristles. So if you can take your toothbrush and actually angle it at a 45 degree angle so that the bristles kind of like splay out and you can get under that tissue and shake, that's the ideal way of brushing. I've never seen anybody brush like that, not even adults that have had manual toothbrushes their whole life. And then same thing with flossing. I just witnessed somebody flossing. Like she literally put the floss piece here and the floss piece here and she just started going like this. Oh my God. No, no, no. You want to put it down in one between two teeth and then you want to wrap the floss like a C around the tooth and then scrape up and down the tooth. And then you want to wrap it around the tooth on the other side and scrape up and down and making sure you get that click.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, see, I haven't been doing it like that. That's good to know.

SPEAKER_01:

OK. So, yeah, I think and really the hygienist at your general dentist office is really the one who should walk you through it. Or if you have questions like, hey, can you watch me? Let them watch you and see if they agree with how you're doing it. That's really where you're going to get that hygiene education.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I was just my younger son just got his braces off and so he was using like a excuse me, a water pick, you know, until he got his braces off and then he just got them off. And so I had to like show him how to floss properly because before that, before he had braces, he had those like ones that you hold, but it's not like the string. And I had to show him like in the mirror how to do it with the string in between the teeth and the gums and all that. And it's your point, like it's hard for him to like figure it out. And then I think he got it. So now he's been doing a good job at it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I haven't been wrapping it around my tooth. That's like the trick that I need.

SPEAKER_00:

I go like in between the gum. I was telling him to go in between the gums. I don't know if that's right, but it's kind of wrapping. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

I just make sure you're scraping up and down, making wrap it, make a C, scrape and then turn it on the other tooth and then go to the next side.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, we'll think of you tonight when we floss.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Before we let you go, I just have one more quick question because I just thought of this. Maybe you can give us some insight. Receding gums, is that from brushing too hard, too aggressively?

SPEAKER_01:

It can be from a number of things. It could be from brushing too hard. It could also be from clenching and grinding or if your occlusion is off. So a lot of clencher grinders will I don't know they just they create these things also call them fractions so it's almost like you can get your fingernail stuck at the neck of the tooth because it's kind of you feel like a gouge that's from clenching grinding also the receding gums from the toothbrush and I would also say sometimes if you have like a crown like I have some restorations in my mouth And my tissue doesn't love it. So it's going to pull away because I have a nickel allergy too. And I think some of my old crowns, the base metal was made out of nickel and my tissue didn't love it and it pulled back. Interesting. So just like you have a different oral microbiome, you also have different biotypes of your tissue. And I have a very thin biotype. And so the three to four millimeters of tissue that are adjacent to my teeth, it's very thin. So any manipulation is actually going to make my tissue recede. But not everybody's like that.

SPEAKER_02:

Interesting. Okay. All right. Well, this was fascinating. I really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, it was so cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Try to tell people it's not boring.

SPEAKER_00:

No. Yeah. The more you know. That's right. All right. We're going to end with our quick wrap session. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack besides teeth bleaching? Because we know you do that.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm going to say as long as I have mascara on, I'm good to go. Good ones.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. And then this might be the same answer, but the next one, we call it your five minute flow. You just got out of the shower and Uber has pinged you. They're five minutes away. What are you going to do to, like, get yourself together and get out the door on time?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that sounds like the story of my life, so this is pretty easy. So concealer and mascara and a little lip gloss. And that's really all I need. And I'm loving my baseball cap lately. So I'm going to put that on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Nice. Good one. Okay. How do you maintain your daily nirvana?

SPEAKER_01:

I will just be okay, like not getting everything done and just putting it on tomorrow's to-do list and always try to start my day with a little five to 10 minute session at a minimum by myself with either my music, my thoughts, or my breath.

SPEAKER_02:

Nice. So gratitude and giving yourself grace, it sounds like, at the end of the day, if you don't get it all done, that's great. All right, well, before we let you go, also, please tell us, where can our listeners find you? Where in North Carolina are you, if they want to come visit you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina. And just so, just to be clear, I am a root canal specialist. So, and I feel like we do like really banging root canals to save people's teeth that are like, you know, people would normally throw those teeth in the garbage. We're going to save them. Um, you're welcome to come see me, but just for clarity, like I'm not a general dentist. I'm a root canal specialist. That's all I do. So I don't do cleanings. I don't do crowns, even though I know a lot about those things, but, um, my specialty is root canals.

SPEAKER_02:

Great. Thank you, Dr. Chopra. We appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been a pleasure. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 149 - Thriving Through Perimenopause: A Deep Dive With Karen Martel Part 2 (Full Transcript)

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well-being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters-in-law and your hosts.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome back to part two with Karen Martell. Listen as she breaks down bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, the various types and much more. Here we go, part two with Karen.

SPEAKER_00:

First of all, educate yourself because there's so much misinformation. If you go to your doctor, as we were saying, they're not gonna be much help. A lot of them are still going by old research that has now been completely changed, but yet the doctors aren't talking about it. So that's the WHI study, Women's Health Initiative. They once thought that estrogen was causing breast cancer rates to go up. And so they told all the women, get off estrogen, it's killing you, basically sent it out to the world. And that's how we saw this massive drop in women using hormone replacement therapy. I still hear people say that. All day long, every day. It amazes me. I can't even believe how many, I would say like maybe 70% of the world still has old belief systems about HRT, because it's just, I always think, oh, I'm doing a great job really getting the word out there, but then every day we'll run across some woman that's like, oh my God, I'm having a heart flash, I'm just dying here, my menopause, and I'll be like, well, have you started HRT yet? Oh no, I don't wanna do that, I was told that that could give me cancer, and it's like, I still have so much more to do here in this world. But educate yourself so that you feel comfortable taking it. Because what the study actually showed, and this now has been published several times, is that women that were in the arm of the study that took the horse's estrogen, because that's what they were using back then, and a fake progesterone called progestin, which is in a lot of birth control pills, just FYI, that arm of the study did have an increase in breast cancer. An extra one person out of every 1,000. Low, but it was there. There was an arm of the study where the women had had a hysterectomy. They would put them only on the horse's estrogen without the progestin. That arm of the study had a decrease by 24% in developing breast cancer. So it actually horses estrogen, which is, we don't even use that anymore, actually lowered a woman's risk of getting breast cancer. So really let that sink in because everybody thinks estrogen HRT is going to give them breast cancer. Now the thing is there is some truth to breast cancer being tied in with estrogen because we can have estrogen receptors on the estrogen positive breast cancer. And so estrogen being proliferative, making things grow, it can obviously then make it grow. Same with progesterone. We can have progesterone receptor positive breast cancer. So if you have that, no, you shouldn't take HRT. You're not a good candidate for it. But just generally speaking, women had a lowered risk by 24%. They also had a 45% lowered death rate if they did end up getting breast cancer. So that means that the women that were taking the horse's estrogen, if they did end up getting breast cancer and they was on that estrogen, they had a 45% decrease from mortality from that breast cancer. that tells us that that really helps. And same with, there's a lot of studies that show that when there's progesterone involved and progesterone is that antipod, it stops that growth. It's very breast protective. So as long as we're using these two hormones together, even testosterone is very breast protective. So it's using them all together because they work. There's a reason for that. Our body doesn't do anything by mistake. We have all of these things put in together. They work synergistically together. So educating yourself so you feel comfortable making that decision, I think is really important because some women are really frightened. A lot of women will say, well, this is natural. We're supposed to go through menopause. I say, well, it's not natural for us to be living this long. We typically died between the ages of 45 and 50. And now we're living longer than we've ever lived before. And we want to live a healthy, vibrant life. And no matter what, we're going to age. So I always say to women, OK, so when you're 60 and now you've got type 2 diabetes or you've got osteoporosis or you've got the onset of dementia, Are you going to refuse all medications to help you with these things? Because this is natural. That's a natural part of it. It's because you're aging that you have developed these diseases. Let's say it is from the drop of those hormones, which I know there's many factors that go into each of those things, but let's just say it's from the hormones have a massive impact on it. Like women will get osteoporosis 99% of the time if they don't replace estrogen. So we can just safely say that hormones have massive impact on these diseases. Are you going to refuse to get help then because this is a natural part of aging? No, of course not. So what's the alternative? Bioidentical, which means body identical, the same makeup as your own hormones, you can now get and you can take to ward off and help ward off all of the major killers of women. With heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer's, and dementia, and even cancer, women that replaced their hormones had a 33% reduction in all-cause mortality. 31% reduction in all cancers. So we know that women are actually better off health-wise to replace their hormones than not replace their hormones. And so when to do this, this is always the big question because a lot of doctors will say, we're not giving you estrogen until you're in menopause. when people like herself and myself, I started using it at 42 as well because I was suffering and I didn't want to suffer anymore. And so putting them in earlier can be very helpful. Now there are things that you can do when you're in your late 30s or mid 30s, early 40s to help support the hormonal system and kind of squeeze out that last bit of hormones out of the ovaries. Things like Vitex is great for progesterone production, things like black cohosh, sage, Quay, Shatavari. These are all herbals that really nourish the ovarian system. I used those products for years to help me with my hot flashes and my transitioning over into perimenopause and menopause to help with my symptoms. It was great. They worked amazing. but then there got to be a point in time where it's like the ovaries just shut down. There's no amount of supplementation. There's no clean diet. There's no exercise program. There's nothing that you can do to bring back ovarian function. It's going to happen to each and every one of you where those ovaries are going to go, bye-bye, we're not here anymore, and you can't revive them, and none of this stuff will help you to produce a bunch more hormones again. There's things like you can support the adrenal system, and you'll hear a lot of functional practitioners say that, like, oh, just support the adrenals, and then your adrenals will make those hormones for you. I'm sorry, but I've done about a thousand different adrenal tests now on women and menopause and perimenopause, and I'll tell you right now, they could have perfectly normal cortisol levels and adrenal systems and have zero estrogen, zero progesterone, and zero testosterone. it, I never ever seen it produce enough to get the health benefits of those hormones. So yes, we want to do all of these things you want, you have to eat a clean diet, you've got to prioritize protein, we have to exercise, you gotta lift weights, doing some intermittent fasting, all of these things should be part of your holistic perimenopause and menopause care because you will go through menopause much easier if you have those things in place. But know that you can have all of those things in place and still suffer just as much as the woman who's eating McDonald's every day. So it doesn't distinguish between the two. It can help for sure, but there's still many women like myself. I was like super, super healthy. I hadn't drank in for 10 years, eating a paleo-based diet for 10 years, no like addictions to sugar, nothing. I exercise, I was doing everything right. I suffered, I almost gained 20 pounds when I hit perimenopause. I was depressed, my skin went horrible, like everything. I reversed it all. but it was not fun. And I see women like this all the time. And they beat themselves up because it's like, they just keep thinking, Oh, I've got to fast for, I got to do this body hack more. I get old, just start doing cold plunging. I'm going to go carnivore. I'm going to go keto. I'm going to take these supplements. I'm going to take these peptides. And it's like, sorry, but only hormones can do what hormones do.

SPEAKER_01:

I have to tell you that you just explained to me in a nutshell because that was exactly who I was for the last 10 years. I tried every single thing I could get my hands on, right, Amy? I mean, it's part of the reason why we started this podcast because we were just like the junkies of taking in all of the wellness and all the hacks and all the things. We're like, oh, we're getting weight, let's do keto. Yeah, let's try every little thing. Yeah. One meal a day. Yeah. Let's try every supplement. Yeah. And then, you know, started hormones and it's like, oh, tada.

SPEAKER_02:

Can you explain, just to break down, because I didn't understand this when I first started looking into hormones, like the difference between the bioidentical and the synthetic and just positive or like pros and cons of each and all of that.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, what's interesting is even though we use the horses, so it was pregnant horses urine. It actually started with pregnant women's urine, but that was too unstable and it wasn't cost effective. So then they switched over to horses, which is nothing like our own. but it quickly became the most prescribed medication in North America. So you can imagine how many people were on it. And there was a lot of, there's a lot more studies on that type of HRT than there is bioidentical. And even that shows that women are better off to take estrogen from a horse than no estrogen at all.

SPEAKER_02:

But that's still prescribed just to be clear, right? That's like when they prescribe synthetic. Not very often.

SPEAKER_00:

I wouldn't even call it synthetic. I would call it that. It is a form of hormonal replacement therapy. It's derived from a horse. And the progestin, that is a synthetic, chemically made. And that's what's in birth control pills, as I said before. So a lot of people will assume that what's in birth control pills are hormones. They're not. And even doctors will say that, like, oh, the hormone's in there, blah, blah, blah. They're not hormones. These are chemicals and they're actually classified as endocrine disruptors, which means hormone disruptors. So they disrupt your own hormonal system. and they will do things like shrink parts of your brain. Every woman that's on birth control pills will have leaky gut from it, so that's an unstable gut microbiome where the junctions can start breaking free. I think everybody knows what leaky gut is nowadays. It will shut down your own production or lower your own production of hormones, very much so the testosterone. Testosterone really plummets with women that take birth control pills. So these are, that's the synthetic version of these hormones. And so some, there are some practitioners that will prescribe progestin and they'll prescribe a birth control pill that has you know, the same estrogen that's in birth control pills, which is a chemically made estrogen, in order to help women in menopause, or at least they think they're helping them, to get rid of symptoms. So they'll give them a birth control pill with these synthetic endocrine disruptors instead of bioidentical. So bioidentical hormones are made from soy and yams. They extract a chemical out of them that is bio-identical. So it's still made in a lab, but it's coming from Mother Nature. And they can get the exact chemical structure of your hormones from these plants. So your body does not know the difference between your progesterone or the progesterone that you're rubbing on your skin, for instance, or taking orally. So we've got HRT, which came from Premarin, and that was combined with fake progestin. Or we can do bioidentical, which comes from plants and acts the same makeup as your body. And then we've got birth control pills, which are chemicals that can disrupt your own hormonal system.

SPEAKER_01:

I have a question. I use the estradiol patch that is prescribed to me. Is that primarine?

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's 17-beta-estradiol. So anything that's got 17-beta-estradiol in it is bioidentical estradiol.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Yeah. So I use that and I get it through my OB-GYN and then I get a topical progesterone from an integrative doctor because it can be hard to get your hands on. And do you find that even if you do have an OB-GYN that will give you the patch, they can't give you bioidentical progesterone necessarily, right? Like it's not a prescription like the patches.

SPEAKER_00:

There is, but only in oral form. There is no progesterone cream that a pharmaceutical company is making. You can't patent that, so they don't make it.

SPEAKER_01:

And is there one reason why one would do the progesterone oral versus the cream? I love the cream. I love it.

SPEAKER_02:

I do a progesterone pill, but I do an estrogen and testosterone cream, but that's just what they gave me. That's what I was saying. It's hard to know, do you do pill, do you do cream?

SPEAKER_00:

Typically, what's given is a bioidentical progesterone pill called Prometrium. So it's brand name, pharmaceutical company makes it, and so it's patented, right? So that's why they do it in oral form. Now, orally is not how your body naturally would produce it, like how we process it in our own body. That's not the case. When we take it orally, we have to take it in a much higher dose than we would transdermally because it has to go through the first hepatic pass of the liver and through your digestive system. So by the time it gets to progesterone to your body, we're only left with about 20%. So typically it's given in 100 to 200 milligram dose, and you're gonna get that 20 to 40 milligrams out of that oral. the rest is going to be turned into progesterone metabolites. And so it can almost be thought of as two separate drugs because the progesterone metabolites can be absolutely incredible for women because it's the metabolites that really act on the GABA receptors in their brain, and that's for calming. And so women will use oral progesterone to help with sleep and anxiety, and they love, love, love, love, love it. And a lot of doctors will say topical progesterone doesn't work, which is completely untrue. One, because they're going to say that because no pharmaceutical company can make a progesterone cream. Number two, it doesn't show up in blood work. It's really funny how the hormones work. Testosterone in blood work overshows. Estrogen shows pretty accurately. Oral progesterone will show up in blood work, but topical will not unless it's in really high doses. If you were to take that same person though and test through saliva, which is a great way to test, and it actually is only going to test free levels of hormones, your progesterone overshows on saliva. And so we get this like, well, what should we do? Even if you did like just a blood spot test, progesterone has a better chance of showing up on that. And we know because there's been thousands and tens of thousands of women who have used progesterone cream very successfully for decades. And we're not all running around with breast cancer and uterine cancer. So we know that it works. I've always, always taken progesterone cream because I prefer it. The oral progesterone, unfortunately, a lot of women react negatively to those metabolites, to the high amounts of those metabolites. So they can get super tired from it because it's too depressive. Some women can get angry from it, super, super depressed and weepy. I've had this happen to me several times myself where I've taken too much oral and ended up in a really bad state where I couldn't stop crying. And I have a lot of my clients, more and more so are saying that they get the same reaction from oral progesterone where they're like, I can't take it. And my doctor told me just to keep taking it and that I was going to get used to it or take a higher dose. and I'm ready to go jump off a cliff. Like this woman told me the other day, she literally almost committed suicide from it. Oh my gosh. Because that's how depressed she got. And it's like, okay, well, this is the progesterone cream. It does convert down to metabolites, but nowhere near as much as that oral does. Interesting. Maybe I should try the cream. Most women that have that sensitivity to oral, they can do fine with progesterone cream or suppository progesterone for some.

SPEAKER_01:

Did I did I hear you talk about this on your podcast once about that relationship to PMDD? Is that what?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Okay. That that will and we'll link to that episode in this in our show notes for anyone that that, you know, raises your antennas hearing all of this. But yeah, we should. Yeah, it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

It is super interesting. There's a woman, Terry Eisenhower, who wrote this paper about it and did the research about it. There hasn't been much more past that. You can find her on the PMDD websites and stuff like that. Neurosteroid sensitivity is what she calls it. Some women's PMDDs can be caused by progesterone, their own progesterone from this happening. So those women, if they start to take oral progesterone, oh my gosh, it's a mess. Even topical, they can have a really, really hard time with it. And it's not that they have too much or too little, it's a sensitivity in the brain to that progesterone and those metabolites. It can also be called GABA sensitivity, GABA receptor sensitivity.

SPEAKER_02:

I have a question on the estrogen and testosterone. Are those for bioidentical only in cream form or do those come in oral too?

SPEAKER_00:

So estrogen can come in or there is bio-identical estrogen, but with estrogen, as soon as you take it orally, because of it going through that first hepatic pass of the liver, majority of it is gonna be converted to a different estrogen called estrone. Estrone is more inflammatory and more weight producing. So it's gonna cause you to gain weight and inflammation and has more risk for breast cancer. because of that. Because the estrone we make in our fat tissues, estradiol can convert to estrone. We need some estrone. It's really good for bones. It's very, very proliferative, the most out of all three of them. So we don't want to take it orally because of that. As well, when you take estrogen orally, it raises sex hormone binding globulin, that very important protein that we don't want too much of because then we can't use our hormones. As well, it raises your risk of heart attack and stroke. And we saw in the WHI that women that were on oral estrogen past 10 years post-menopause at an increased risk of heart attack and stroke. We do not see that with transdermal estrogen. So, if you're taking estrogen through the skin, there is no increased risk of heart attack and stroke, but yet there's still so many doctors prescribing bioidentical estrogen.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's I think what my OBGYN wanted to give me like a year or so ago. And I was like, I don't want to take this pill. Like she didn't even tell me anything about it. I would just take this. And I was like, no, I'm not taking that. I want to take like just because I knew that there were these creams and yada yada. So and then testosterone, same thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Testosterone, when you take it orally, will raise SHBG. And it's not, once again, not a great way to take it. We don't want to take it orally and because we have the option not to, then please don't. Same with the estrogen. Always lean on the side of caution. We want to take these hormones as naturally as we can to mimic what our own bodies do. So testosterone is best through injection or through cream. Estrogen is going to be best through patch, gel, cream, suppository. And you can take estrogen through injection. And some women we have had to do it. It's not our preferred way, but some women, their skin has a very hard time absorbing things. And so we do injectable and they love it. It works great. It's just, you have to take another shot, which is why we don't go there first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that right there was really helpful because I know when I first started researching it, and I feel like we're all still learning, that whole piece of like pill versus cream, like it's very confusing. And thank you for breaking that down. I think that was really, I mean, this whole thing has been helpful, but that was really helpful because I think- Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And everybody's different. Right. And that's also really important to hear is you'll find practitioners that will be, they've learned one way, like pellets, you know? This is what we do. We do pellets. We're going to give you this pellet in your butt that's going to be in there for three months, and it's going to release testosterone and estrogen. We'll give you a progesterone pill, and this is what we do. run away from people like that. You want somebody that's going to work with you and see what's going to work best for you and your body. Because like I said, some people's skin doesn't take in patches. I've had women feel like their patch just literally falls off their skin and they're like, this isn't working. Well, I got to do injectable. Some women can't do the oral progesterone, so they got to do transdermal or they got to do suppository. It varies widely. I mean, I prefer the patch with gel to top it up or a cream to top it up because I go through my estrogen really fast with my fast metabolizer of drugs. So if I put on estradiol cream, it's literally gone within a few hours. So I use a patch, a lowered patch to keep a steady dose, and then I top up with my estradiol cream that I have.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's interesting. Okay, so we could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. And our listeners can, this is so incredibly knowledgeable, but I know we need to have a part two.

SPEAKER_02:

So many more questions, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01:

Also, I really want our listeners to go to your podcast because you have so many episodes that cover this and so much more in this vein. And it's really incredible how much of a deep dive you do on everything. So you guys absolutely have to check out Karen's podcast, The Hormone Solution. But here's the other great thing. Our listeners can come to you and work with you, yes, to figure out how they can get on, you know, BHRT, what's best for them, etc. So please tell our listeners where they can find you and also what kind of programs you offer.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're one of the few, I think, telemedicine companies that we really take a very holistic approach to this. You know, we've talked lots about hormone replacement therapy in today's discussion, but There's the importance of having all those lifestyle pieces. I really don't want people to think like those aren't important. To feel your best in the second half of your life, you want something that's really comprehensive. You want to be paying attention to all of those areas of stress management, diet, exercise, and the hormone replacement therapy. It all goes together. just so that you can feel great. I mean, I've never felt this good in my life. I don't know if I've even looked this. I feel like I look great. I feel great. I'm going to be 48 in a month. And it's just like, yeah, bring on 50. I'm stoked. Let's just see how good I can look at 50 now.

SPEAKER_02:

amazing.

SPEAKER_00:

So yes, very, we do a very holistic approach, we can prescribe in every state. So we in throughout all of the states in the United States, as well as British Columbia and Alberta in Canada, we're working on getting more provinces. It's all telemedicine. And then we've so we've got private coaching. And then we've got group coaching as well, where I really wanted to be able to give women all women an option to get help. I created a group coaching program six years ago, and it's been amazing. We've got a few hundred women in there. It's really, really affordable. Anybody can, I think, afford it nowadays. It's always a good deal so that you can get the help that you need. We do weekly group coaching calls. We do lab reads. We have meal plans. And we walk you through what's going to happen in these perimenopause and menopausal years and what you can do to help mitigate these symptoms and live essentially a great life symptom-free. And then we've got programs where you know, it's a monthly program, you get private coaching calls, you get blood work done, you get hormones, you get, it's kind of all wrapped up into a monthly fee. So we've got that as well. So you've got, you can do a one-off, a session with our nurse practitioner and get started, get going on the prescribed HRT, or you can do a group coaching call, or you can do our VIP where it kind of includes everything from month to month. And then I just came up with my own line of over-the-counter hormone creams, which is fabulous because yeah, and so really super affordable compared to what you would get in a pharmacy. They're super clean, which also you will not get in a pharmacy. So there's no parabens, no chemicals in them, super clean. It's like coconut oil, shea butter, I've got a low-dose estradiol. I've got the only over-the-counter estradiol cream that's available to the public right now, which is pretty exciting. It's low-dose because I feel like once you do get into the higher doses of estradiol, you do want to work with a practitioner. This is just a 0.25 milligrams. It's a starting dose. It would be great for somebody that's in perimenopause that's maybe still cycling, but it's getting a irregular, they're in their mid-40s, they're having symptoms of low estrogen. So you could start with that. And then I also have a combination cream that's higher dosed, it's more concentrated and it's got estradiol as well as estriol in it. And I really focused that one on for the face and skin because it helps build, the research shows that it will help to build collagen in the face, reduce wrinkle depth and shrink pore size by anywhere between 40, sorry, 60 to 100% after months of use. So I've created it. People love it. It's definitely my top seller is the face cream. But you can use the face cream if you're in menopause. You can use it systemically as well. It's a higher dose, so I don't want somebody in perimenopause to use it, but you can use it.

SPEAKER_02:

And is that on your website or how would people?

SPEAKER_00:

It's on my website. Yeah. And then I have a progesterone cream that's a 50 milligram progesterone cream. And you use that as a cycling woman, you would use that days 14 to 28. And one bottle will last you for three months if you use it that way. which is really amazing. It's like $50, which it's usually about $50 to $60 a month for progesterone. Yeah, that's fantastic. That's great. I've never heard of it being over the counter.

SPEAKER_02:

So that's really helpful for someone who's kind of like just starting and great.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And someone that can't afford like a hormone, like I won't lie, it's expensive to see us privately as it is any hormone clinic. Like you're looking anywhere between $400 to $800 for your initial call. with any of the hormone clinics that are throughout the United States. I have yet to find somebody that's much cheaper than that. And so once again, we just want to make this available to the public. So we created these creams to not only have a clean product, but also something that people can just go online and buy. And if you go into my site and in my shop, each of the creams, you'll see that you can download my user guide. It's like a user guide to bioidentical hormones. I break all of this down for you and what symptoms you're looking out for to say that maybe it is time to start progesterone or maybe it's time to start estrogen. I break it all down in this little ebook that I made. That's just free. You just go on there and download it.

SPEAKER_01:

That's fantastic. We'll link out to that in our show notes. All right. Well, before we get into our wrap session, I just want to say thank you so much because you're actively changing women's lives daily and congratulations on all your success. We're really grateful to have you here. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks, ladies. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. So here's our wrap session. Just a few quick fun questions. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Besides, of course, you're like, you know, fabulous estrogen cream and everything that you just gave us.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, can't that be my beauty? Hormone replacement therapy, even internally, is like the best beauty care. But you just want something quick.

SPEAKER_01:

Whatever. No, it can be your HRT. Absolutely. I was teasing.

SPEAKER_00:

I really do feel like that has kept my skin the best.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, your skin is beautiful. Taking it internally as well, like systemically as well as topically.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice. Okay, great. All right. And then the next one, we call it our five-minute flow. You just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber has paid. There's Uber in Canada. I was just in Canada and I took an Uber.

SPEAKER_00:

You have an Uber there, yes. Uber just alerted you.

SPEAKER_01:

There is Uber, yeah. Okay. Uber's five minutes away. What are your go-tos? What are you going to do really quickly to get into that Uber and on time your holy grails like your favorite lip gloss, etc.?

SPEAKER_00:

I would just jump into the Uber.

SPEAKER_02:

You don't need anything.

SPEAKER_01:

You don't. You've got that gorgeous glowing skin.

SPEAKER_00:

I can't tell you how often I go out without makeup on. So yeah, I'm not a big makeup girl. I would make sure that maybe I throw in some dry shampoo if I couldn't, you know, or you said I just hopped out of the shower. So my hair's clean. So I would blow dry my hair and I would do my hair because I would at least do that much. But then I wouldn't bother with makeup and I would just run out the door. Nice.

SPEAKER_02:

Love it. And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I don't do a good job. No, I I'm getting better. One thing I do in the winter that is my daily Nirvana is I sit in my hot tub. We live in a very cold, snowy place. So our hot tub outside is beautiful. We live in a rural area so that we in the forest. And that's definitely like a must have for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice. That sounds lovely. That's awesome. Yeah. All right, Karen. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure. And we're very, I'm very grateful to meet you again. You really changed my life. So thanks. It was great to chat today.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 148 - Thriving Through Perimenopause: A Deep Dive With Karen Martel (Full Transcript)

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well-being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters-in-law and your hosts.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome to the show, Nirvana Sisters family. Today, I am so excited. We are sitting down with someone that I'm a huge fan of. I'm fanning out a little bit. I feel like I know her. Fan girling. I've been listening to her for two years, I want to say. So with no further ado, this is Karen Martell. Karen is the CEO of Hormone Solutions, heads a clinic and product line offering bio-identical hormone therapy and a holistic approach to addressing hormonal dysfunction in women during peri- and postmenopause. As a certified hormone specialist and transformational nutrition coach, Karen is a distinguished authority in women's weight loss and hormonal health, with a wealth of expertise, and that is a fact. In perimenopause and menopause, Karen is recognized as a leading expert in navigating the unique challenges and transitions women face during these phases of life. As the esteemed host of the highly acclaimed women's health podcast, The Hormone Solution with Karen Martell, she delves deeply into the intricacies of female fat loss, hormone optimization, and the complex interplay between hormones and overall health. Karen's mission is to empower women with the knowledge they require to seize control of their well-being and thrive throughout every stage of life. And she is wildly successful at that. And I can't wait to talk about it. So welcome to the show, Karen.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you for having me, ladies. I'm so happy. That was really sweet. Thank you. I do it myself when I meet other people and I'm like, Oh my god, I've been listening to you because you're feeling you have this intimate relationship with the person because they've been in your head talking for years on end. When you actually meet them, even if it is just on video, it's like, oh my gosh, this is like meeting a star.

SPEAKER_02:

It's very exciting. I love it. All right. Well, before we get started, we like to kick off with a little nirvana of the week and I'm going to let Amy get the ball rolling so you can, so we can just get into the groove of it.

SPEAKER_01:

That reminds me, I posted this weekend on Instagram, this, it was like a quote that I had seen before and it reminded me of our nirvana that we do called Glimmer. I recently learned about a term called glimmer, which is essentially the opposite of trigger. Glimmers are those micro moments in your day that make you feel joy, happiness, peace, or gratitude. Once you train your brain to be on the lookout for glimmers, the more these tiny moments will begin to appear. And I was like, Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I do love that.

SPEAKER_01:

So very similar to our nirvanas. So I would say my nirvana this week or weekend was I got some one-on-one time with my younger son. So my husband and older son went away for the weekend. They went on a trip. And so I was just here with my younger son, which like we're never here, just me and him. So it's cute. We just like got to hang out a lot and do fun things like, I don't know, just go like shopping around and have little dance parties. He was teaching me a TikTok dance and like all just fun stuff. It was just cute to have some one-on-one time with him. So, yeah. What about you, Katie?

SPEAKER_02:

Mine, without a doubt, is this moment right now because I'm so excited to talk to Karen. And shortly, I'm going to give my little personal Karen Martell anecdote on how she changed my life. So, this is my nirvana. Wow. Really, honestly. So, Karen, what was yours?

SPEAKER_00:

My nirvana, I would have to say, was this moment where one of my girlfriends from the States left me a voice note. We leave each other these 10-minute-long voice notes all the time. It's hilarious, right? Just get on the phone and talk. But we do. We just go back and forth with these silly voice notes all the time. She's off to Costa Rica today. She left me this really sweet little message where she just said something like, I'm off to Costa Rica early in the morning. How was your weekend? He's like, okay, love so much and I'll talk to you soon. And I was like, and my son was listening to it and he said, why does she say I love you? I said, you know what? Because we do. We love each other. We're really good friends and we love each other. And for some reason, it just stuck with me. And it was this moment of realizing what great friends I've made in the last few years in this industry. And for those listening, when you're in this industry, it's very lonely. Even though it seems like we're so out there talking to so many people, day-to-day, you're by yourself in your house, in your office with nobody around. And if you live in an environment like I live, which is in the middle of nowhere in this little town, there's nobody here that understands what I do, that nobody's in this industry. So all of my close friends now all live in another country. So it just made me reflect on the importance of having friendship and love from other women that understand you and where you're at in your life. Because prior to that, I didn't really have a lot because of where I was. So I was just super grateful and I had this like such touching moment about it. So that was my Nirvana.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. Well, before we get into all of this, I just want to, I'm going to try to be really concise, but I also don't want to be too short-sighted because I want you to understand the impact that finding your podcast really did have on my life. I, as a lot of our listeners now, I have two autoimmune conditions, one hypothyroidism and one is Addison's, which is pretty rare. I don't know if you're familiar, but I don't make stress hormones, cortisol or all testosterone. So I've spent the last decade pretty sick, like in and out of moments. I have good months, I have bad months, I have bad years. And towards the end of my 30s, I had a partial hysterectomy, kept my ovaries. But over the course of the last few years, my health was really deteriorating and I didn't know what was going on. Because as you know, perimenopause symptoms are a laundry list. It's not just hot flashes. I wasn't having hot flashes. So it didn't occur to me. This is what's happening to me. It was like a big learning curve figuring it out. And I figured it out by listening to you. I stumbled across your podcast. And I think I was like, you know, I had like stubborn 10 pounds I was trying to lose and your podcast used to be called the other side of weight loss. So I thought, Oh, this is great. And I was listening to you. And I can't tell you how many times I'd be driving around in the car, listening to your podcast, and I'd be screaming at the speakers, if you could hear me, like, yes, Karen, that's me. Yes, I experience that all the time. I feel like that all the time. So I finally, last April, decided to take the plunge and try HRT, even though my labs were coming back like fairly regular, but because I had that partial hysterectomy, I wasn't having a normal period. So I could never gauge where I was in my cycle. So it's hard to tell where your hormones are supposed to be when you don't know where you are in your cycle. But I thought, well, let me just give it a try. And I started an estrogen patch and a progesterone bioidentical cream. Within weeks, I started feeling really good. I started having great energy. I started, sex drive came back, looked like myself, felt like myself. Within months, my autoimmune conditions were practically in remission. I went from having like multiple bedridden days a week, sometimes horrible months at a time without a good streak for longer than a couple of days, to now I commute into New York City three days a week and work, come home, cook dinner for my family, play with my kids, go travel and feel great. Like I used to not even be able to travel without it really wrecking me. It completely I feel at 42 years old, I feel like I did when I was 25, healthier, better than I did for an entire decade of my 30s. And 100% it is because I stumbled across your podcast, without a shadow of a doubt, and just how incredibly informative you are. And you're really, really great at helping the listener understand all the complexities of it and how it can affect people in all these different ways. And you bring so much science and so much fact and so much of the studies and everything behind it. It's really what you're doing is we're Jewish, and we would call it a mitzvah. I mean, it's really, it's amazing, and I'm so grateful. So essentially, thank you, because you really, like, I went from thinking I'm going to be sick and tired for the rest of my life, this is just what my conditions are, to like, hey, I'm alive, like life is back.

SPEAKER_00:

Why did you have the hysterectomy? I think that's important for your audience here.

SPEAKER_02:

I had a lot of complications from like post-pregnancy, like prolapse and things like painful intercourse, like things like that, and horrible, horrible periods, like really painfully horrible periods. So that was, and that was just the first, the doctor said, this is what we do. We're not gonna, like that's just the only option I was given. And I took it, and like ultimately, It was a good move. I was happy I did it. But then it just sped up the menopause, you know, so yeah, and you're on thyroid medication. I am. Yeah, I'm on thyroid medication. I was I've been on thyroid medication and medication for my Addison's disease since I was like 30. Yeah. I do. And fludrocortisone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Yeah. So yeah, that all makes sense to me because the same, I didn't have a hysterectomy, but at 42, I hit menopause, but all my numbers looked good. And it was the thyroid medication had raised my sex hormone bonding globular, which is a protein that binds up primarily testosterone and estrogen. And so if it goes up, you can look like you have fine labs and blood work, but your free levels of hormones are really low because they're getting bound up by this protein. And so I couldn't figure it out. I was like, what is happening? And it took me years to ever even hear somebody talk about that, to talk about the fact that thyroid hormones could do this. But I just did the same as you, where I was like, I know I'm going through menopause, I'm having hot flashes, low sex drive, I can't sleep, suddenly I'm gaining weight, my periods become irregular. So I found a doctor who was willing to prescribe to me and I was like, I have to start this. And then since then, I've just been this huge advocate for women can take hormones early and that's okay. A lot of doctors are like, we can't give you estrogen until you're in menopause. Well, hello, perimenopause can be over 10 years long. So you want women to suffer for over a decade because they have these irregular estrogen cycles where sometimes it'll be high, sometimes it's low. and suffer and gain all this weight and be uncomfortable and have low sex drive and dry vagina and all of these things. When we just given her a little estrogen, she would have probably been a lot better. And then the other thing is doctors don't tell women that, oh, if you have a hysterectomy, yes, we can leave your ovaries, which helps, but your ovaries atrophy faster once her uterus is gone. So you will start to go into that perimenopause menopause state quicker. And typically when there's not the prolapsed uterus and things, but the heavy bleeding, the poor periods, the postpartum depression. A lot of that is due to low progesterone levels. So once again, women aren't being told, oh, you're 38 and you're suddenly bleeding out every month and you can't sleep and you've got horrible PMS. Well, let's put you on birth control pills. Let's give you an ablation or let's give you a hysterectomy. And those are your three top choices when that woman could just use a little bit of progesterone cream and probably be totally fine.

SPEAKER_01:

It's unbelievable. This. I, years ago, as the audience knows, I have vestibular migraines and they first started coming on, I don't know, maybe six, seven years ago, whatever it was. And a lot of it revolved around when I was getting my period, et cetera, et cetera. But at that time, I didn't know anything about hormones. It wasn't even a thought in my mind. And then one of my doctors was like, oh, you're probably peri-menopausal. I'm like, what are you talking about? Because it didn't even occur to me. And she's like, no, that can be 10 years. I'm like, oh, I didn't realize that. That being said, I didn't do anything about it until a year ago when I started taking hormone replacement stuff, and it's massive. The vestibular migraines got better from a lot of different things I did, but just in terms of general energy and just weight gain and all that stuff got so much better once I started taking hormones. And I feel like I speak to all of my friends, and everybody has something with their tire. They're this or that. And I was just with my girlfriends a couple of weekends ago, and I said to two of them that I was with, I was like, you've got to get your hormones checked. I'm telling you something is going on with you. If you're feeling tired, if you're feeling like Non-motivated or like get them checked and they both like we're like, okay I'm making an appointment on Monday because I just think there's not a lot of awareness. No one knows who to go to Regular doctors like my OB like literally has never had a conversation with me about it I mentioned at one time and she was like, oh, yeah, you can take and it was like synthetic prescription She wanted to prescribe me like there's just such little I mean, there's a lot of education now because of obviously your podcast and all these wonderful people putting out information, but like the more science-based, you know, MDs that are obese do not talk about this. They're not even, even if they don't know about it, they should refer and be like, you should go see, you know, an integrated or whatever. It's just, it drives me crazy because to your point, things can be mitigated perhaps easier by just doing an estrogen cream or something.

SPEAKER_00:

I read zero to seven percent of medical doctors are taught anything about menopause and they're taught zero about perimenopause. They also aren't taught about bioidentical hormone therapy in med school. They have to actually go and take an extra course and pay out of pocket for that, which who's going to, what family doctor is going to go do that? None of them. And so they have no education in this. And then, so we're telling, you know, you're telling your friends and I'm telling you like, oh, go, just go to your doctor and get your hormones checked. You obviously are having hormone problems. Go have them checked. And then they come back and they're like, my doctor said everything's fine. Every time. Because they'll look at the ranges, say, oh, you fall between 100 and 1000. So you're fine because you're at 101. or something like that. The ranges are ridiculous. They don't tell women to take that test on a certain day of their cycle, which is really important. So if they test it on day three of their cycle, it's going to look like they have no estrogen or progesterone. If they test on day 12 of their cycle, they're going to look like they have this massive amount of estrogen and no progesterone and think, oh my gosh, you're estrogen dominant. Like, oh, Panic, panic. So it's, unfortunately we can't rely on doctors. I always say try because that's typically the cheapest route for most people, but please don't expect them to have an answer for you or to come back and say, oh yeah, you've definitely, you're going into perimenopause, let's help you with this. They don't know how to do that.

SPEAKER_01:

So for our listeners, um, sorry, Katie, did you want to go?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I was just going to say, no, you go ahead. Cause we're probably going in the same direction.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I let's break down just kind of like a one-on-one here. So anyone like, what are some of these like surprising symptoms or just symptoms in general of perimenopause? Because I think, you know, it would be helpful for our listeners to understand what that could entail. I'm sure it's a laundry list, but.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a massive list of what perimenopause, it's usually perimenopause too. I think everybody has it in their head. I know I did. It was like if someone had asked me in my 20s or even 30s, what do you think menopause is? And I would have been like, oh, you know, when I'm in my 50s, my period's just going to disappear. I might have a few hot flashes, maybe gain a little weight and then it's over. and you're an old woman, or not an old woman, but you're getting to the second half of your life and you have no more period, and that's what it entails. And that's the furthest thing from the truth. Hairy menopause, we're seeing starting actually earlier and earlier because of the toxic environment that we're in, because of the stress that we're now under. We're now seeing it starting anywhere typically at mid-30s to late-30s for women. That is the typical age that we start to see perimenopause kick in. It can happen earlier, it can happen later, but typical, the majority of women, that's where we're going to see things starting to go amiss. And so first things that women will notice is period changes, heavier cycles, more emotional, maybe can't sleep around their cycle, maybe get some night sweats around their cycle. and they'll put on a few pounds of weight, typically no more than five pounds, but it kind of comes out of nowhere. You'll be like 38 and suddenly you wake up and you're five pounds heavier. You're like, I didn't change anything. Like what's going on here? That is the shift that starts to happen is that we don't ovulate as often. So as we get older, we don't ovulate as often because we come into this world with X amount of eggs. And so once those eggs are done, you no longer are going to be ovulating. And so we start to get months where there's no ovulation. And when there's no ovulation, we don't produce the bulk of our progesterone in the second half of the cycle. And if anybody here has ever tracked their cycle to get pregnant, we all track for to see what you check your basal body temperature every day. And you look for a spike in temperature on day 14, which is when you should be ovulating around that time. Temperature goes up and stays up for the second half of the cycle means you've ovulated and then it drops and then your period comes and the cycle starts again. So think of basal body temperature as a reflection of your metabolism. And so if you're no longer ovulating all the time, your basal body temperature isn't going up in the second half of that cycle. And there's not a lot of progesterone being produced. We produce a little bit of the adrenal system, the brain and the spinal cord, but very minimal compared to the ovaries. So now you've got the second half of the cycle, the temperature doesn't come up, which means metabolic rate's not coming up. Progesterone's really, really important for thyroid function. It also buffers the cortisol. There's no such thing as a progesterone steal, cortisol steal. I think there's a lot of misinformation around that, but they do have this relationship with each other where progesterone, because it's so calming and so anti-anxiety, it can really help tamper down cortisol levels and just stress in general. It's very calming. So now we are getting more anxiety, basal body temperature goes down, and progesterone acts on what's called the GABA receptors of your brain. And without it, we can have trouble sleeping because GABA, you've seen it in supplements, is very calming, it's anti-anxiety, and it induces sleep. So now we've got some insomnia, metabolic rates going down, we've got anxiety. Now we're probably eating worse, right? Because of all of that put together, we're more insulin resistant. The weight can continue to creep up at this point because of this like perfect storm of what's happening as we're starting to lose that progesterone. Some women will begin to lose testosterone as well. Testosterone we make in the ovaries as well as the adrenal system. It's almost about a 50-50 ratio. and so some women will start to lose it through the ovarian function and a hundred percent of our estradiol or estrogen in the ovaries is made from that testosterone. So if testosterone starts to go down, estrogen then can follow And then also if you're stressed out and the adrenal system's tapped, your testosterone can start going down as well through there. And testosterone is a woman's most abundant hormone when we're fertile, which most women don't know. So signs and symptoms of that coming down are, of course, the typical sex drive can start to go down. Women will notice that they can't put muscle on very well when they're working out. Muscle recovery. So after a workout, they just seem like they can't bounce back. Energy. Women will say all the time, like, oh, I'm just suddenly so tired. Women will be diagnosed with like chronic fatigue syndrome because the testosterone can influence energy that much. And you can think of testosterone as your lady balls. And it really does. It gives you that masculine kind of like get out there, get things done, be a little bit more aggressive with stuff. And so when we start to lose that, women find that they become more timid, like they can't get stuff done, they're tired, they don't want to work out, they don't want to have sex. And so that can start to kick in on top of the progesterone kicking in. As you start to get farther into your 40s, now estradiol starts to drop, and this is the primary hormone for women. Estradiol has a lot of bad press about it, but I tell you what, when that starts to go, that is when we see these horrible perimenopausal symptoms really kick in. And prior to that, you will see an estrogen dominance profile because you're losing that progesterone. We need progesterone to counterbalance estrogen. So that's why the heavy bleeding can start, the tender fibrocystic breasts before your period. because that's estrogen, which is proliferative growth. And so things can get out of control growth if we don't have enough progesterone. So you can start to get all of these symptoms because you're estrogen dominant, not so much that you have too much estrogen. but because in comparison to progesterone, and there isn't much, then you can start to get these symptoms of the estrogen dominance. So that's when, as I was saying before, that's when you typically would go to your doctor, because some women will start to bleed so heavily that they get anemic, they're bleeding, like they're going through a tampon every 20 minutes, and they're just like, oh my gosh, take it out. Like take the uterus out, get rid of it, I can't deal with this anymore. when it's they could have just used a little bit of progesterone. So anyways, as we start going in and losing the estrogen. then things really kick into gear. That's when we start to see the hot flashes, the night sweats for a lot of women, vagina dryness, and atrophy. So atrophy is like it actually dries and the walls of your vagina start to thin and they get really... Women will actually say to me, it's close because it dries so much and it atrophies so much, you can't actually get anything in there. You can't have sex with your partner. I've had women come to me in tears saying, oh, I haven't had sex with my partner for years because I tore last time. You know, you get these micro tears because it's so painful. And yeah, sure, you can try lubrication, but lubrication is different than vagina moisturizing than actual like your own vagina lubrication. It's much different than like going and getting yourself an over-the-counter sex lubrication. Very, very different. We want our own body to create the moisture down there so that we don't atrophy. And so that can start to happen. Depression, we need estradiol to help make serotonin. So a lot of women will now start to get depressed on top of the anxiety, thanks to the low progesterone. It has something to do with our sleep. So a lot of women will start to have even worse sleep. It's text drive. Estrogen is just as important as testosterone is for sex drive, sometimes more important. So it helps with sex drive. It helps with our skin. It helps to build collagen. So it helps with the wrinkles. So suddenly women will start to notice like, oh, my skin is suddenly aging really, really quickly. This is typically because they start to lose the estrogen. They can start to lose hair on their head, get a foggy brain because our brain is rich with receptors for estradiol. And so that's where the foggy brain comes in. You can't think straight. Women quit their jobs. This is a growing epidemic where women that are in these high up jobs that they need to be working, their brain needs to be working really, really well for it that they have to quit. We just had somebody a few weeks ago like that, and she said, I had to quit my corporate job because I couldn't think straight anymore because of the loss of hormones, Alzheimer's. And then we started to get susceptible to all of these diseases. So even if you're somebody that's super lucky, about 80 to 85% of women will have some degree of symptoms. 20 to 25% of those symptoms will be severe, We see the highest amount of suicide in women that are between the ages of 45 and 55. So if you're somebody though that you missed out on, you didn't have any of that happen to you, what's going on in the inside is also really important to take note of because you could not have hot flashes, still have a sex drive, all those good things. But what's going on on the inside, like we need estradiol for proper heart function, for bone protection, to ward off Alzheimer's and dementia, for our bowels to work appropriately, for our immune system to work appropriately, which is probably why you felt so great when you started hormones because it does really help with the immune system. It helps with thyroid function. So Then, of course, on top of all of this, the number one thing that we hear about and complain about is the weight gain. Everybody thinks estrogen is going to make them gain weight, but the loss of estradiol will cause more weight gain than any other loss of hormones because it's so important for blood glucose. for insulin sensitivity and blood glucose control, it has a huge impact on that. And then as we start to lose it, we become more insulin resistant. We start to put on that midsection weight gain, which is the worst place to carry fat. We see type two diabetes go through the roof in menopausal women. So there's just a little list, actually. Yeah, right. We could keep going.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, we just have, like, the... We're the ones who have the babies. We're the ones who have to go through this. Like, I mean... Oh, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I hate sounding so doomsday. No, but this is the truth. Right. There's so much we can do about it, and we'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. And there's so many things to like, you know, as you were naming each phase, I was thinking, Oh, I remember that. And then that's when like, my hip pain started. And I remember that happening. And that's what you know, it's like, right, and like all the inflammation and And when my progesterone, I look back and I think, I kind of think I know when my progesterone started to tank because I was like angry and like I was so stress intolerant. And if my kids were screaming, I would scream at them instead of being able to just coolly handle it. You know what I mean? So it's really, amazing how much it can impact every aspect of your life and how it can, every woman can experience similar things with different things at the same time. So let's get into what can we do about it? And how can we get all of our great mojo back and feel good again? Tune in next week for our part two with Karen Martell, where we get into how we can survive through perimenopause, not only survive, but thrive. She goes deep into bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and more. If you don't want to miss it.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes, please subscribe, and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 145 - How to Get Your Teenager Talking with You, Boost Their Confidence and Motivation, and Navigate Those Cringe Moments featuring Teen life coach Will Elliott (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 145.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:27] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show, Nirvana Sisters family. It's Amy and Katie, and we are so excited for today's guest. And let me tell you about him before we get into it. Will Elliott is one of the world's top life coaches for teens and is dedicated to helping the next generation live confident, bold, and purpose driven lives. He coaches teens and parents, helping them develop unshakable confidence and indestructible character so they can take action to become truly unstoppable. He's passionate about making personal growth fun for kids and taking the stress out of parenting by teaching parents to connect effectively with their teens. And this subject is so relevant for our audience and us. We both have. I have two boys. One is 17 and, well, one's almost 17 and 14. And Katie has two girls, ten. And how old's Reese? 610 and six. So she's like preteen. I'm in the thick of it. And for our audience, I found will just online on Instagram. He has incredible content. So if you haven't checked out his homepage, if you haven't checked out his instagram, we'll put a link in our show notes. But such good advice. Literally, a lot of the things you have in there, I'll do. You'll be like, text your teenager this. And I'll be like, oh, my God, I'm going to text jackson this. But such good info. So, will, why don't you just jump? First of all, welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into this, because I just think your perspective is so refreshing.

[02:02] Will Elliott: Yes. So it's a very long story, but I think the best summarization is I wanted to become the leader that I wish I had when I was in high school. And I know that sounds pretty cringey or cliche, but I was so desperate for someone to give me life principles that I could use to improve my confidence, teach me how to set goals, not in a cringy way, and stop procrastinating, get off video games, all these different things that I was really, really needing as a middle school and high school boy. I just started posting content on social media, giving that advice that I wish I had. And so now I've grown an audience of parents, mostly. So I find myself being the middleman. That's the best way to describe myself, is I'm the relatable, fun one for the kids, but I'm also a little bit older and more mature than an average teenager, and I just communicate what they're feeling and what their needs are to parents, and I think they appreciate that perspective. So, yeah, that's a little bit about my background. I've been doing it for about five years now and absolutely love every single day. I've helped thousands of kids, mainly with confidence and a lot of other things, too. So, yeah, thanks again for having me. Great.

[03:17] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I'm excited.

[03:18] Amy Sherman: Yeah. Thank you for all of your knowledge and wisdom. We really are savoring it. I guess there's so many things to talk about. I feel like we could go everywhere, in all directions. But I guess the first thing is you were saying about you talk to a lot of teens, and how do you just get your teen to just talk with you and tell you what's on their mind? I mean, I have boys, right? And they're very different. One is less talkative, one's more talkative. But just, like, how do you kind of get them out of their shell and less one word answers and that kind of stuff?

[03:52] Will Elliott: Great question.

[03:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[03:54] Will Elliott: I was definitely the kid that rolled my eyes when my mom asked me how was my day? I was like, mom, I don't want to talk about anything. Or I would just say, I don't know. And I feel like that's what most parents kind of tell me. And so I think the first thing is lower your expectations, especially the teenage boys. I think lowering expectations of how much they open up to you about their relationships at school or their friends or what's happening at school, their grades. I think lowering expectations and balancing that with asking them those questions while they're doing something they enjoy. So this is what we always, or what I coach, is indirect communication. So using the opportunities, like in the car, shooting hoops outside. My parents asked me the deepest questions when we were shooting baskets because they knew that I would open up rather than, let's say, at a dinner table with my siblings around. But they knew when I was having fun and when I was doing something that I enjoyed, I would be more willing to open up about things, and I probably didn't even know about it. So I would say using indirect communication, lowering expectations, also talking to them about their interests, just creates a safe space for them to feel seen, heard, loved, and understood, which obviously opens up the door for you to ask a little bit more personal questions about things that you want to know. Maybe they don't naturally open up about.

[05:22] Katie Chandler: It's very true. The piece of talking to them when they're doing something that they enjoy. And I've noticed that with my girls from the time that they were really little until even now, they like to do arts and crafts. So we'll be doing that a lot, and we'll start talking, and then that's next thing I know, it's all coming out right, but versus when you're sitting at the dinner table, they feel like they're put on the spot or something, and they don't want everybody else to listen. Or even in the car, they feel like they're locked in.

[05:53] Amy Sherman: Right. Trapped, yeah, for sure. I find that when I play video games, or at least sit downstairs in the basement with my kids when they're playing video games, I definitely get more insight into what's going on.

[06:08] Will Elliott: Yeah, I think we're all like that, too, not just teenagers.

[06:12] Amy Sherman: Totally.

[06:13] Will Elliott: Yeah. I'm a big supporter, and I'm very convicted. And if we talk to teenagers like we talk to other humans, and when we approach teenagers, like we want to be approached as adults, that's ultimately what they're craving the most. That's what a teenager is all about, is they want to be independent. And even though they're not an adult, they want to be treated like an adult. And so using those small things, like, what do we open up or when do we open up the most? And just asking them to do the kind of the same thing, I think that always helps.

[06:40] Katie Chandler: All right, so I want to know, what's some of your advice for getting teens motivated and staying motivated? I mean, I feel know mine are younger than yours, Amy, but I'm sure you could speak to this better than I can. They seem to have so much on their plate all the time, and there's so many extracurriculars, and there's so many demands at school. I'm sure it's really. I remember it was really hard to stay motivated. It's also, you want to just have fun when you're a teen. Right? So what are some tricks there?

[07:11] Will Elliott: Yeah. My perspective on motivation is very different, and I am not a huge believer in motivation. I know that I have not gotten where I am today because of motivation. I think a lot of kids and a lot of people are under the assumption that they need motivation in order to take action, where, in reality, action is the thing that usually gives motivation. And so when we can help kids kind of shift the perspective and help them just take action even when they're not motivated. And I have a lot of tips around that. But I think as the parent shifting your perspective towards, I don't want to motivate my teenager, but instead I want to help them build momentum. I want to help them build action. And I'm going to do that by praising little things that they're doing. Well, then the more that they do that, it's kind of like going to the gym. When you go to the gym and you start seeing progress, even when you maybe just start out going to the gym, you're not crazy motivated. But when you start seeing progress, you start to get more motivated. You're like, oh, this stuff is actually working. I actually want to go back. It makes me feel good. So action leads to motivation rather than the other way around. So I think the more we can build Momentum, that's the secret.

[08:21] Amy Sherman: Yes. Give us an example. How do you do that? How do you help them to build momentum?

[08:28] Will Elliott: Yes. And that's kind of the question that always comes after what I just explained. And so I'll leave it at this. Most students, or I'll start with this, most students really feel as though they can't do anything right. And I've had thousands of conversations with kids, with teenagers, and they feel bombarded by this idea that everything that they're doing is not good and definitely not good enough. And that's really exhausting. We don't like when we are bombarded with that message. So from school, from sports, social media is the biggest thing. And so I think the more that we catch kids doing things right, catching teenagers doing even the littlest thing correct. When my parents caught me, or let's say, said, hey, will, I notice that you got up on your first alarm this morning. That was really awesome. It subconsciously gave me kind of this hit of, oh, wow, I actually did something right for once. You're pointing it out. And obviously parents catch kids doing things right a lot, but I think being really intentional about it is how you build momentum. The more that you catch them doing little things right, the more they're going to want to do those little things right. Hence leading to bigger opportunities to do big.

[09:43] Katie Chandler: Had Erica Brunwasser. She is a parent coach for kids that are parents that have much younger kids. And she said something very similar and I applied it to my girls and it does, it works really well. What were you going to say, amy?

[09:58] Amy Sherman: I was going to say, it's funny. I try to do that very intentionally. As much as I can sometimes. I'm not always thinking about it, but I do find that I get a little smile if I say, hey, I noticed you did XYZ. That's awesome. I'm proud of you. Whatever. And I have this. I was going to bring it up later, but I'll bring it up now because I think it's relevant for so many people. I am very much of that mindset. Like, positivity breeds positivity. Motivation breeds motivation. Like every little tiny thing. What if your partner, AK, my husband, and probably others husbands or wives are not on the same page? He's very much. I wouldn't say stricter, but more like that type of philosophy he doesn't buy into. He thinks it's like, soft. It's hard because we just have different outlooks.

[10:50] Katie Chandler: Right.

[10:50] Amy Sherman: And so how do you deal with parents who are not always on the same page with how you discipline or how you react to those sorts of things?

[10:59] Will Elliott: Yeah, I mean, you're always going to have a balance, and I think a balance is really important now. For me, I was an athlete, I went division one for a couple of different sports, and I had coaches that didn't catch me doing little things. Right. And I learned certain things from them and I had other coaches that did, and I learned certain things from them. So if you have a partner that doesn't do that, I think it's even more important for you to do that. You obviously can't control them. And so just doing your best to find the balance and knowing that there is good things, there's pros of both. Right. And so I think just having faith that they will get different lessons from different parents.

[11:43] Katie Chandler: Is it kind of like his perspective is you do your chores because you're supposed to do your chores, and then I'm not going to give you a pat on the back. It's your job. Is it more of like, that perspective?

[11:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah. Or like the trash every week? If he doesn't take it out proactively without us reminding him, then that's not good. Where I'm like, well, okay, he forgot, but if I ask him, he does it with no problem. So what's the big. His. His philosophy is more like, well, he should be doing it proactively. We shouldn't have to remind him. He'd been doing it for five years. Why do we have to remind him every week? But every once in a while, he does do it by himself without us telling him. And I'm like, jackson, I loved how you did the trash without us reminding. I. But I like that idea of, like, you're not going to change your partner. They are who they are, and they have their positives and negatives, too, just like I do. So everyone puts a different perspective. It's just like teachers, right? Like, some teachers are amazing for a certain kid's learning style and some aren't. But to your point, they probably learn from both styles in different ways. So it's a really good outlook. I love that.

[12:44] Katie Chandler: It kind of raises the question of if the positive reinforcement is one way, is the other way, sort of teaching a child to have grit, because grit, I think, within children is huge. To be able to persevere through something if they get knocked down, to get back up again and to keep fighting and not just to give up. And my kids, they're not in sports. And I really feel like my ten year old did sports for the first time this past year, and she's learned a piece of some grit from sports activities. And I feel like that can really just get surpassed with children these days. And then it hurts them in the long run because you have to have grit when you're in the working forest, in the real world and everything, right?

[13:33] Will Elliott: Yeah. Grit is my favorite word. It's my favorite thing to talk about. I definitely find it really hard to help kids develop grit just because my kind of definition of grit, the way that my mentor explained it to me when I was in college, is doing things that you don't feel like doing, but knowing it's going to help you with your long term vision. And so it's really just saying no to instant gratification. And I always like to remind parents I had zero grit until college. I mean, late college, I started knocking on doors, doing door to door sales, and I never really had to go through a whole lot of super uncomfortable moments that I would say called for a ton of grit until then. And so just because your kid is not really developing grit that you can see on an everyday basis when they're in high school doesn't mean that they're never going to be gritty. I would say that's one of my biggest strengths. It's led to me doing a lot of things that I'm doing now, and I didn't learn it until later. So I do think that the second parenting style does lead to that. I mean, my dad specifically didn't give me a ton of validation. I had to work really hard for that validation. And that's still something that there are pros and cons to that, of course, but it didn't come naturally to him giving it to me. And I think that probably subconsciously gave me a little bit of grit. But there were more moments, the more that I got older, that gave me clear opportunities to develop it with social.

[15:09] Katie Chandler: Media and the instant gratification of that in the world that we live in today. I feel like these generations, that's even a bigger issue because of that exact reason. It's a little scary, right? They're so used to instant gratification. They're so used to that. Like, or that.

[15:29] Amy Sherman: And so many options, like, oh, this is work. I'll do something else. I also think. And tell me what you think, will. I feel like confidence probably aligns itself with grit. I feel like sometimes my kids will say things that don't sound confident to me, like they wanted to do something. They asked the teacher, and the teacher was like, no. And I was like, well, don't take no for an answer. Go back. And they're like, no, it's okay. And I'm like, well, if they had a bit more confidence, they might go back up to the teacher and say, you know what? I heard you. But XYZ, so I don't know. Do you think they kind of go hand in hand a little bit?

[16:06] Will Elliott: For sure. I would say that, for me, a lot of confidence comes from my faith in myself that I can get over the no's or essentially get over the hardships. And I think a lot of students, they're kind of in the same boat, and they just need to go through those hardships. It takes a long time to learn, like, even in that example, it takes a long time for kids and teenagers to learn to keep persisting through that failure. Right. And so a lot of the things that I see in the parent side of my coaching is that they are fixing a lot of the kids issues, and so that really robs them of opportunities to actually learn those types of things. And so, yeah, I think it just takes a long time for us to develop the, I guess, awareness as well as the maturity to keep persisting through those exact moments. But the more that they practice that, the more that they obviously get gritty and attach that grit to confidence.

[17:08] Amy Sherman: And I'm sure parents are ruining it for a lot of kids, too. I'm sure. You see, like, I see you talk about on your feed all the time, like the helicopter versus the lighthouse parent. Talk about that a little bit.

[17:17] Katie Chandler: Hear that?

[17:18] Will Elliott: Yeah. This is, I think, the best explanation of what I see in kids today for the parent side of things. I see a lot of kids problems. And for all the parents that are listening to this, it is not your fault that you helicopter parent. It's also if your kid isn't confident or let's say if they're not being persistent and they're not developing grit, it's not just the parent's job to bring that out in kids. I mean, the society we live in and the world we live in doesn't really help kids. Right. It's a very difficult time with social media and everything. So it's not just the parents fault. There are different things that you can do. So the best way to describe this is helicopter parents try to fix, and they are primarily the coach of their kids. Now, that is essentially ten plus years of habits that you've had to kind of cultivate in order to get your kids understanding the importance of hygiene and talking to adults. Right? So up until about twelve years old, you've had to kind of be a helicopter parent. They need that to some extent. But it seems like when they reach the tween years and especially the teenage years, it seems like their needs shift and change completely. And so maybe they wake up one morning and they don't want your advice, they roll their eyes and they storm up to their room. And so with their needs changing, your habits, as the parent I've seen need to change as well. And that's where lighthouse parenting comes in, where you need to be more of a counselor rather than a coach. So just be there as their teammate rather than, let's say, a general manager that's calling out the plays. It's like, hey, I'm here with you. I'm here to learn with you. I don't have all the answers myself. I'm just going to be consistent. I'm not going anywhere. And that is what a teenager is craving the most. Right.

[19:11] Katie Chandler: And is it? Also, they need to learn their own lessons, they need to make the mistakes, they need to fall on their face sometime. You can't save them from everything every second, right? And if you're doing that, they're pulling away more and then they're shutting down more. At least. I mean, I've noticed that in this house, my husband is definitely a helicopter parent. That's Amy's brother. He's rolling helicopter right into ten years old.

[19:45] Amy Sherman: He's like, more than helicopter, I would say.

[19:50] Will Elliott: You're exactly right. So I've spent a lot of time coaching kids. I've had some pretty awesome relationships that have lasted multiple years and not only from my own experience, but from their experience. They grow absolutely the most from falling on their face, like you say, and failing and missing a basketball team or getting rejected by a girl they like or whatever it may be. That's really hard in the short term, but it's awesome in the long term. And that ultimately kind of comes back to grit as well. It's like if you're robbing your kids of opportunities to build character through difficult times, short term hard leads to long term easy. That's what I've seen in my own life. I've spent so much time, I think, going through hard things that my parents allowed me to fail in, but that helped me develop the character to do the things that I love doing now. And so I always like to say, don't rob your kids of opportunities to develop character through short term hard. They need short term hard to have long term easy.

[20:56] Katie Chandler: Just say that again because so you said short term hard is going to say that again? Yeah, please.

[21:05] Will Elliott: Yeah. Short term hard is going to help your kids develop the character to experience.

[21:12] Katie Chandler: Long term versus short term easy. Rather, when they're children, making everything easy for them is going to potentially make the long term really hard for them because they're not going to develop any of the skill sets that they need or the character that they need to power through and to persevere and to become what they want to become, et cetera. Agreed.

[21:32] Will Elliott: Yeah, exactly. They probably will learn all of those things, but it could be when they're 25 or 30 years old, and that's when it's harder to learn those things because you have so many other things going on in life, from what I've noticed. Right. Yeah.

[21:50] Amy Sherman: I agree with that philosophy. I think sometimes, especially for high school kids, and I'm just thinking specifically on school, and I know you have a whole thing about, like, you shouldn't talk to your kids about grades all the time in school, and it's really hard not to, especially in high school, but that kind of stuff, especially with grades. And when you're in high school and it counts, it's really hard to have them do really bad on a test or when it really counts, it's painful, even though it's a good lesson. It's like when they're younger, like middle school, much easier. High school and the stakes are higher. How do you coach parents through that?

[22:24] Will Elliott: Yeah, school is really hard. I think for me, I was not a good student, and so it's easier for me to kind of look back and obviously acknowledge that school is not everything. I think that perspective is really helpful in and of itself. Just reminding yourself that school is not the only definition of success. Now, I empathize with parents out there because it is so important. I think especially in high school, because grades matter, you might be the one paying for college. You really want them to succeed in a good school. But I always like to say that your definition of success for your kid will be the thing that your actions follow. And so if your definition of success is really only school success, then of course you're probably going to nag. You're probably going to try to fix their situation in school. And the more that you can zoom out. My parents really regret not doing this. They were very zoomed in. They nagged me a lot. And they always kind of say, I wish I would have just zoomed out. I wish I would have just seen the bigger picture. Because a lot of the times, obviously, when we are zoomed in, we can't really see much around us the important things. We often lose sight of the important things. And I think the posture of school is the first thing I always like to work on with parents of just reminding themselves that it's not everything. And then from that posture, I think there are good things that you can do. And yeah, I'm open to talking about those too, but I really think the posture and zooming out is super important.

[24:01] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I think it's also super hard these days, too. To your point about social media, because you're hearing about high school and college and it's so competitive and everyone is insane about grades and school and competition. It's like, to your point, just taking a breath and zooming out and being like, everything's going to work out. It is hard to do that in the moment, but it is a great.

[24:21] Katie Chandler: And when you say zoom out, do you mean aside from just being so hyper focused on how they're performing in school, zoom out to see how are they doing? Personally, when you say zoom out, what do you mean?

[24:37] Will Elliott: Yeah, I mean, looking at it from a different perspective, and I think that brings a lot of things into the equation, I would certainly say giving yourself perspective of if your child gets a 70% on a test or if they get a c on their report card, I think accepting the fact that that's happened, zooming out, looking at it from a fresh perspective, looking at it in the big picture in mind, and then from there, then you can go forth and maybe set boundaries in the future, whether it's for screen time. I also think zooming out also looks at just a different version of success. Like, my parents knew that I was going to be successful because I was developing the character and I was failing a lot, and then I was learning from that failure. So the more that you can remind yourself that school, at the end of the day, is more about the character that your kids are developing than it is about the content they're learning, I think especially as they get older, that's another way to zoom out. But, yeah, I'd say those are the two biggest things. Everything changed for me for my schooling. I was a 2.2 GPA student until I started looking at school from the perspective of I get to learn character traits. So instead of I. I wasn't motivated in school because I didn't see the purpose. I was like, mom, I'm never going to use this math. I'm never going to x, y and z.

[25:56] Amy Sherman: This is what Jackson says to me all the time, by the way, when am I going to use this in the real world?

[26:00] Will Elliott: Yeah. And so the session that I always come back to with those types of kids is the one that completely changed my life. And my mentor came to me and said, it's not about the math that you're learning, but it's about the problem solving skills that you can learn in math. It's not about the history that you're learning, but instead it's about the study or the mindset of learning. And those are two things that certainly has helped me in my life. Right. So the more that I looked at it like that, I found more purpose, therefore I found more motivation and momentum, and I went from a 2.2 GPA student to a 4.0. And it wasn't because, wow, I was.

[26:36] Amy Sherman: In high school or in college.

[26:37] Will Elliott: This was in high school. Everything changed when I just started looking at it from a different perspective. But that really helped from leaders and mentors helping me zoom out because they were zoomed out.

[26:50] Amy Sherman: Were those mentors that you had in high school? Did your parents find someone for you to talk to? How did that.

[26:56] Will Elliott: Yeah, it was just a track coach. So my track coach was my biggest mentor in high school specifically. And then I found a couple more in college that taught me a lot of what I know, too.

[27:05] Amy Sherman: That's so special that you had someone in your corner to help you grow in that way. That's special. There's not a lot of coaches and teachers that are like that. So that's incredible.

[27:17] Will Elliott: Yeah. That's what I'm trying to change, though. So hopefully we'll have a lot of awesome mentors out there that can teach these kids these life principles, because, again, it changed my life and it continues to do so now.

[27:27] Katie Chandler: That's fantastic.

[27:30] Will Elliott: Yeah. Very grateful for them.

[27:33] Amy Sherman: Yeah. When you were talking about, we touched on this before about this motivation or intrinsic motivation around certain things, whether it be taking the trash or like a big one for us, too in the house is like meeting with seizures at school. Right. It's like you don't understand something or you do bad on a test or you have questions or just like building a relationship, even if you don't have questions, like that idea of doing something proactive, what you were saying before, like something hard now that will make it easier later and get. It's like that phrase, you can lead a camel to water, but you can't make them drink. There's that certain piece where it's like we're telling you all the things to do. If you're not doing it, you have all the resources at your fingertips. If you're not doing it, there's nothing we can do. But I feel like with both my kids, every year, there's like a little bit of improvement and there's a little bit more proactiveness. But again, is it a maturity thing? Is it eventually they'll lock in and all of a sudden they'll see value from it. What do you think about that?

[28:35] Will Elliott: Yeah. So I can speak from, obviously, my perspective or my experience and also the kids that I've coached. I think we lose sight of the idea that kids are going to find something that will motivate them down the road. The expectation that kids need to be motivated towards school, I think, is an unrealistic expectation. For the most part, they don't need to be motivated. For example, like, I wasn't really motivated to go and talk to my teachers or do those types of things.

[29:03] Amy Sherman: Right.

[29:03] Will Elliott: But the progress that you're mentioning is so important to recognize and also to remind yourself, because when they do, let's say, in college or potentially out of college, or if they don't decide to go to college, when they do find something that they are passionate about, or even if it's like 50% passionate about, more so than school, right. All of these things are going to come in handy. They're going to subconsciously be reminded of them because of the little habits that they get to pull from. So I always like to remind parents that thing that they're passionate about is coming. And when it does come, you're going to be blown away by all these little habits and how they start to improve them. It's kind of like a compounded growth scale. Right? So when they find that thing, their confidence skyrockets, their motivation skyrockets, and so on and so forth.

[29:57] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I totally agree with that. I mean, we're all like that, right? I wasn't a great high school student either. It was fine. But when I got to college, I was taking classes that I liked and I enjoyed them and I was passionate about them, so I did a million times better, which I know my kids eventually will be that way, too. It's just like the time in between letting them figure it out is hard, right. Because it's like you just got to have patience and know it's going to work out and they're going to find something. But in those teenage years, it's really hard, especially when they're not telling you things or rolling their eyes or not really giving you anything. It's hard to absolutely hang in.

[30:30] Katie Chandler: Right?

[30:30] Will Elliott: Yeah. And I like how you said patience. It really is patience. The world is really good at convincing you that everything won't be okay, or at least putting the questions in your mind of what if this happens or what if that happens. And so the more that you can just bring yourself back to the present moment and remind yourself that everything will be okay. That's always what I like to tell parents, because it really will.

[30:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah. And I do like the reminder of lowering expectations. I try to do that, and I always tell my husband that, too. He'll say things. And I'm like, you got to lower your expectations because that is not realistic. That is not going to happen. So. And so whatever he's like, well, why not? It should. I'm like, I have said that to lower expectations, which isn't, like a popular thing to say, but it is true. I mean, these are kids at the end of the day, even though they may seem like grown ups and you talk to them like grown ups, they're not fully developed, so these things aren't going to be perfect. It's a really good reminder. What are the teens telling you? Like you were saying you talk with a lot of parents. What are the teens telling you? What are the biggest things that are happening in their world? Like, what are they focused on and what annoys them about their parents? Everything. Besides everything.

[31:44] Will Elliott: Yeah. Okay. So I guess the common messages, I have a couple of deep ones that always come to my mind, and then one of the things that annoys them the most, I'll talk about that, too. But I would say they feel a lot of pressure, lots and lots of pressure from all directions. Like I was saying before, I feel like pretty much every single session, so I do group coaching as well as one on one coaching. And every single session I think kids are just saying how exhausted they are from the pressure of feeling like they have to have everything figured out. One example, and I know not many parents are like this, but I think a lot of schools do this. They put a lot of pressure on like 8th graders to have their future job figured out. And the amount of kids that come to me and they get super close minded towards goal setting is because in 8th grade they're being pushed to figure out what they want to do for a living. And so I think it's just from society they have this idea that they have to have everything figured out. And I always tell them, you could be 35 years old and not know what you want to do and you're still so young, you still have so much time. Right. And so, yeah, I think the pressure from society is the biggest thing. They really feel misunderstood. And I know pretty much everybody did as a teenager. I know I did as well. And so I think the more that parents can seek to understand rather than trying to be understood, I think it's the best thing that you can do for not only their confidence, but your connection with them. And then the one thing that they dislike is lecturing. And I talk about this all the time. I talk about this all the time. It's really important for parents to guide their teenagers. But when they are closed minded to hearing any type of advice, that's how I kind of define lecturing. So turning little things into life lessons, turning jokes into 30 minutes lectures, that's what they don't love. They just want you to seek their heart. And then from there they're going to be more open to those amazing gold nuggets of wisdom that you have for them. The long answer. But I know, yeah, I've heard a lot from kids, so I have about a billion more.

[33:59] Amy Sherman: Give us another one. That's a good one.

[34:02] Will Elliott: Another thing that they don't parents doing.

[34:04] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[34:06] Will Elliott: Talking about school. Twenty four seven is definitely a big one. They really want you to invest in their interests. And for those of you watching or listening that think the only interest is video games, they want you to invest in that, too. It might take some time for them to open up about things like video games, for them to not roll their eyes that you're trying to watch them or ask them questions about it. But the more that you invest in their interests, the more they're going to be open to talking about school. That's just how it is. I always like to give the example of if you hated your job and you didn't like the people that you were working with, and you were there for 8 hours, and you also weren't very good at that job, and you came home from work and your whole family just wanted to talk to you about that job and the work that you had to do after that job, the job that you hated, you probably would not want to talk about that either. And that's exactly how they feel. So the more you can pull back from school, it's a win win. Not only do you connect with them better, but they also tend to do better in school because they don't feel like all this fear of failure, all the pressure that I mentioned before, too.

[35:12] Katie Chandler: It's interesting because they're at school all day long and it's like we don't lose them to school, but in a sense we kind of do. And we have no idea who they are in that classroom, what they're doing, if they're okay, if they're happy, if they're not happy. So I feel like for me, I'm trying to pull that out more than I'm like. So how'd you do on your recent test? Now, granted, I have fourth grader and a first grader, so it's very different. But it's hard as parents to not focus on that thing where they are all day long. But I can see the last thing they want to do is get into that. They're exhausted by it.

[35:52] Will Elliott: Yeah. And I think talking about schools is fine. I think sometimes I always tell parents to just do it after you've invested in their interests.

[36:02] Katie Chandler: Right.

[36:03] Will Elliott: The whole point of investing in their interests is to truly learn about their interests and show that you care about that. But it's also to open them up about the other things as well. And so, yeah, it's really tough. I think part of the issue is the school system. I'm not a huge fan of homework or those types of things. I mean, I don't need to talk about that, but it's just super hard for kids. I coach kids that have 4 hours of schoolwork after school and it's impossible for parents to connect with them and they feel misunderstood. And there's not a whole lot that parents can do in that situation because, yeah, there's not a whole lot. So I feel for parents out there, too, and the kids who got to.

[36:48] Amy Sherman: Do all that you mentioned earlier about sports and you being a d one athlete, because the whole sports and parents thing is like, there's just so many different types of parents around sports. But what's your feedback for kids that are athletes and my younger one's a really good athlete and my husband gives them a lot of constructive feedback, I would say, but I always feel like there's a time and a place. And what's your thought around giving feedback or whatever around sports?

[37:21] Will Elliott: That's a loaded question, I think. Yeah, I don't think it's a cookie cutter approach, and I think it's all very personal to the parent, to the kid, to the kid's goals, to the coach. I mean, all those different things. So I'll leave you with kind of a cop out answer for a parent to give feedback, but also make sure that they're showing up to listen. And that's using the critical question. I talk about it all the time, and it's going to your kids, let's say after a game or after a practice and asking, do you want feedback or do you just want to talk something along those lines? Do you want to vent or would you like advice? My parents and my dad specifically, he didn't know anything about baseball. He grew up in England, but he always gave me feedback for baseball, and it would always drive me crazy because he had no idea what he was talking about. And then it was totally different than what my coach was telling me, and it was just bad for me because I was kind of like the middleman here. And so I think the more that you can just show up and ask them if it's cool to give feedback, that'll literally tell you where they're at and what their headspace is and how open they are. And again, after you connect with them and, yeah, I always like to say connect before you. Correct. I think that's a common thing out there, but that works for parents looking to give feedback in sports, too. But, yeah, it's a hard question.

[38:45] Amy Sherman: No, I know it's different. And, yeah, that's a whole nother episode, probably. And then before you head out, two questions. First of all, we'd love to know. I'm sure everyone listening wants to obviously follow you. And what types of sessions do you do? Do you do personalized? It sounded like you do a variety of things. So can you tell us a little bit about how you work with parents and teens?

[39:05] Will Elliott: Yeah, so I don't do one on one coaching anymore. The main form of coaching that I do is through my app called unstoppable you. And so it's just a monthly membership that students can join. I make personal growth fun for kids and so we have weekly sessions. It's not a group call, but it's more of a live stream that is super fun. I give out gift cards and I do gamification and it's only 45 minutes long and kids absolutely love it. And then I also do parent coaching on the side to supplement that too. I have a podcast for kids and I just started that called unstoppable you or the unstoppable you podcast. Social media is the best way for parents to, I think, kind of get an idea of my coaching and that type of thing. But yeah, it's really just my app and podcasts.

[39:51] Amy Sherman: And what's your Instagram handle?

[39:52] Will Elliott: Is it coach coaching with Will?

[39:55] Amy Sherman: At coaching with Will? And so I'll leave you with this question. So you were saying that, and I'm thinking I'd love my teens to subscribe and listen to your app. How do I get them to open up about it? Like, if I say that, they'll roll their eyes, like, whatever. So how do you get them to actually do something like that? Because I think it would be so valuable for them.

[40:13] Will Elliott: Yeah, it would be, and it definitely is. But it also is extremely hard to get kids bought into this if your mom and dad, I've noticed, and we have a lot of statistics to back this up. 98% of kids who hop on one call are bought in for future calls just because they go into it thinking it's going to be like therapy, thinking it's going to be totally different than it is. I'm absolutely crazy. On live stream I go lots of enthusiasm, their language. I'm very much holding back right now, too, but yeah, so that's kind of one side of it. In March, I'm opening up a confidence cohort, which we're going to be talking about for twelve weeks. Everything under the sun of comparison, self talk mindset, sports mindset, confidence, all of that stuff. And I will probably be doing introduction calls. And so I call them buy in calls. They're ten minutes where kids just get a meet with me and that works 100% of the time. So there's not ever been a single kid after four years of coaching that has left a ten minute call with me not wanting to do it. And so those are super valuable and yeah, 100% success.

[41:20] Katie Chandler: What ages do you suggest this for?

[41:26] Will Elliott: Yeah, the unstoppable you app. I would say the sweet spot is twelve to 18. I have a lot of 910 year olds that get a lot out of it. I also coach some 23 year olds in the app. So if they're hungry to grow and they're open to grow, they're going to get a ton out of the content. I know some parents even jump on the student calls just to learn about confidence and they get a lot out of it too. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

[41:49] Amy Sherman: Okay, so it's not too late for my 16 year old to learn some.

[41:53] Will Elliott: Get them in here.

[41:54] Amy Sherman: I'm like, I did so many things wrong.

[41:56] Katie Chandler: You're an amazing mom. Well, thank you so much for your time. All right, we have a couple of wrap session questions for you before you go. What is your favorite wellness hack?

[42:09] Will Elliott: Cold plunging is absolute without a question. Cold plunging. Cold life sponsor is a partnership that I have and they are amazing and so cold plunging changed everything for me.

[42:21] Katie Chandler: Love that. Yeah, very.

[42:23] Amy Sherman: That's so great. Okay. And how do you maintain your daily nova? You have a lot going on. You have like super energy. You're dealing with kids. How do you kind of keep.

[42:31] Will Elliott: That's a good question.

[42:33] Amy Sherman: Keep the peace. Exactly.

[42:35] Will Elliott: So I'm a big runner. So that's what I did in college. So I would say running cold plunging, honestly is kind of an answer to that one as well. Yeah, I would say a little bit of a deeper answer, which is my third. And that is shifting my posture towards service. That always helps me find my nirvana is just reminding myself why I'm here on earth. And that is to impact kids. And that always kind of brings me back to feeling like I love to.

[43:03] Katie Chandler: Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, you do.

[43:07] Amy Sherman: So much. Thank you so much.

[43:09] Will Elliott: This was so much fun.

[43:10] Amy Sherman: Such good advice and such good feedback. Yeah, we could talk to you for hours, but we're going to tune into all of your sessions and coaching. I'm so glad we found you. And thank you for coming on and saying yes to our ask because I think this could help a lot of people. So we really appreciate it.

[43:26] Will Elliott: Well, yeah. Thank you so much for having me. You guys rock.

[43:28] Amy Sherman: Thank you. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness. So you don't have to. Bye.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Episode 142 - Taking Big Bites with Kat Ashmore (@katcancook) - Easy Week Night Recipes, Her Full Skincare Routine, Life, And All The Things (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 142, Taking Big Bites with Kat Ashmore (@katcancook) - Easy Week Night Recipes, Her Full Skincare Routine, Life, And All The Things Write Out The Title.

Amy Sherman 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy Sherman 0:27

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we're so excited to have Kat Ashmore back with us. Yay. It's been years. So just for the history. So cat came on our show a couple of years ago, I looked back it was episode 38. Now we're like on 150 or something which is crazy. You were not just starting but like somewhat new to the space now you've obviously evolved and we're so excited to catch up with you and hear more but let me give our listeners because we have so many more listeners. Now. The scoop on cat Ashmore aka cat can cook so, cat Ashmore is the chef recipe developer and digital creator behind cat Ken cook graduated from the award winning Institute of Culinary Education in New York and went on to work for Martha Stewart developing retail recipes and producing cooking segment segments. On the eight time Emmy award winning the Martha Stewart show Kat lives in Fairfield County, Connecticut with her husband Michael and their family. Welcome back to the show. We are so excited to have you here. We've been following you are so proud of everything you've done. We can't wait to hear everything. So welcome. Welcome. Oh,

Kat Ashmore 1:30

so so great to be here. I can't believe it was it was what, two years ago?

Amy Sherman 1:35

Yeah, it was like 2022 I looked back. I can't remember what month but yeah, I was looking back and I'm like God, Episode 38. That's crazy.

Kat Ashmore 1:42

So Oh, wow. So long ago. I know. Time is such a funny thing. I don't even know half the time like what was last month what was five years ago. It's I know it all together. Now. It's so it's so great to be back here with you. Yeah, thanks. So good to be here.

Katie Chandler 2:01

We start with our nirvana. Before we get into it. We're so excited

Amy Sherman 2:04

to catch up. And let's let's start off with we haven't done this in a while. Katie,

Katie Chandler 2:08

I know what was your Nirvana this week, baby? Did you?

Amy Sherman 2:12

I did. So Katie knows I love I get crazy sometimes with organizing. And so I went to the container service like my favorite place. And I got these like new closet organizers for all my sweaters. Because all my sweaters and how like they pile up. And I've been trying to figure out for years, like, how do I do my sweaters needs they don't fall over. So anyway, I got these like, closet organizers for my sweater. And now they're all like neat and organized. So when I walk in, I feel so good. So I did that organizing. And then I also did organizing, like all my makeup and skincare. So I move stuff that stuff out of my bathroom and put it like I have like a little vanity, which I never used. And I'm like actually using it and I organized it and everything's like has a home. And it just feels clean and organized and lovely. And I just love that feeling. And I don't do it enough. But sometimes I get crazy and I start organizing and then I don't do it for like months, but it just feels good to have that organization. Does my Nirvana this week. What about you, Katie? I

Katie Chandler 3:10

would say mine was I found my favorite game that I used to play. It sounds so nerdy, but I use my friends and I used to play this game until like, midnight all the time on like Friday nights. Instead of going to the club. We would play rummy cube. And I first got it all these years. I forgot about that game. Yeah. Oh, fun. My My kids are old enough to play now. So I found the game. And we've been playing it after some weekends. So we did it a couple times this weekend was it's fun. I love it. I'm obsessed. That's so fun. That was mind blowing. What about your cat?

Kat Ashmore 3:43

My Nirvana was probably. So we recently moved into a new home and we have a hot tub. And we've been going in the hot tub, like every couple of nights, I would say. And we had a big snow here in Connecticut. We're not big. But it was our first one of the seasons, which is always really pretty, right? Because it's not gray. And yeah, it's all just really white and beautiful. And there was one night where it was snowing and we were out in the hot tub and I was with the kids who are five and seven now. So even my seven year old and I wasn't expecting this but he's he doesn't want to be with me as much. You know, he's got like, the video games and these things that I'm not really a part of. So when we have an opportunity to just all get on the same level and just enjoy something together and there's no distractions and we're like catching snowflakes on our tongue. And it was one of those moments, you know, where you kind of like hover above your life and you're like, This is joy. Like these are the good old days, like snapshot. Yeah, it was very powerful, you know? And then I was like, Yeah, Looking at them, like 30 minutes. Right? It was pure bliss. And I just think it's so important to recognize those moments of like, this is happiness. This is happiness. tuck it away somewhere, you know, tuck it away and take this

Katie Chandler 5:17

opportunity. And I feel like as they get older, a gray.

Amy Sherman 5:22

Yeah, that's so good. And it's crazy, because last time you were here, your kids were like really? Little, little little. Yeah,

Kat Ashmore 5:27

yeah. While Okay,

Katie Chandler 5:29

that's when you had just gotten back to work. So that's yes. Certainly back to your work you when we talk to you, you just kind of been in was it maybe a few months that you had done the transition into Captain Cook and really diving into to your tick tock following and everything. And now here we are huge fans, tell

Amy Sherman 5:47

us tell us all things tell us.

Kat Ashmore 5:51

I mean, everything's, everything's great. It's like, everything's good. Everything is really great. Yeah, it'll be four years this summer, since I started creating on, cat can cook. But really, you know, I would say 2021 is, I mean, that's the first year that I was able to monetize it all. It was the first year you know, I switched my website over from Squarespace to WordPress, like I could started to, like, actually make it a real business. Yeah. And so it hasn't been a long time. But so much has happened. And I feel like when you put when you place yourself in the right position, sometimes the universe just kind of like, does works really quickly. And it's like, okay, she's, she's here. She's ready. Like, yeah, let's go. Yeah, it's

Amy Sherman 6:45

amazing. And it's so fun to just have watched you grow over these last few years. And like, tada, hello, cookbook. I mean, amazing. Congratulations. You I remember, because it was so impactful. I remember when you filmed yourself, getting the call about doing the book, or like the deal had closed, or whatever it was that it was like so much. No, I remember that. And now it's like, it's here. And you have this beautiful, incredible book. As I just said, like just going through the last few days, I'm obsessed. Thank

Kat Ashmore 7:25

you. It, it feels to me like the book I would want to have. Yeah, the book that, you know, I waited a while to do a cookbook, having been in the industry, having gone to culinary school and working for Martha and I have had a couple of opportunities to do cookbooks in the past. But it didn't feel like I needed to do a cookbook until until now. All right, until it felt right, because it's out of immense respect, and appreciation for the cookbook industry, that I just didn't want to do a book unless it was going to be something really different. And it was really adding to the conversation, changing the conversation. And it feels like this book is that it

Amy Sherman 8:13

really is I mean, I am not a good cook by any stretch Katie's much better than me. And I'm always looking for like really simple, easy. And I was going through this and I have like a few cookbooks that I sometimes like out but like, this is just so user friendly. When I was I was saying to Katie, what I really enjoyed is that in the beginning of the book, you have the pantry staples, which I think it's so helpful. So for our listeners, there's like little section on salt and pepper and oils and what kind of milk and gluten free and just all these staples so that way when you go to the recipes, it's all like you have all the answers you need. And then when I was looking at these recipes, I was like, Oh, this recipe is three steps. This just these four steps. Perfect. So that's that's like amazing for someone like me who really doesn't cook a lot but like I just told my son, my younger one who's now in eighth grade, but he's like in the phase where he is eating non stop. I can't keep up with him. And I wish I'm always like I wish he was like a good cook so I could just make all this stuff so he would just have stuff so I told him I was like go through the book I just got this weekend, pick out recipes that you want me to make for you and I'll have these ready to go but like I don't know exactly what you like your your tastes are changing all the time. So like pick some recipes, so he's been

Kat Ashmore 9:27

phenomenal. If he likes if he likes meatballs, the chimichurri meatballs are a great one because you can you can form them and freeze them or you can just make like a double or triple batch and then freeze them and they're just ready to go. You put them on green bowls, you tuck them into Pietas you you know just eat with your fingers, which is usually what I do. Yeah, so that kind of thing. But these recipes are really it's what I make at home. Yeah, like I don't make multiple meals for dinner idea. I know people are like, how do you do that? It doesn't mean that my kids eat every single thing on the plate, I make sure that there's a safe food on the plate that I know they're going to eat, or to usually that I know that they're going to eat. Sometimes they'll take a little bite and be like, No, but like the turkey feta burgers that I just made them a few days ago, and my kids ate them two nights in a row. And it's like, they have kale in them. I mean, they wouldn't eat kale on its own, but they will eat them. Now, they wouldn't eat them last year, but things change. Those kinds of recipes, I think are just so helpful. And it's really familiar concepts, right? It's just taken in a modern kind of unique direction, like the meatloaf, for instance. You know, like, everybody knows Mila, but like, this is just the amazing meatloaf with caramelized onions and horseradish, and it just like keeps up the flavor. And it's familiar, but it's different at the same time. It's not intimidating at all. Which is why I like it. I find most cookbooks just like out of my reach. Like they're just too complicated or just feels too like, yeah,

Amy Sherman 11:11

it's very approachable. Very, like I said before, like very user friendly, not intimidating. Like it's, it's fabulous. So what is your I mean, there's like, how many recipes in here over 100? I think, like whichever one? Well, I have like two questions on this. Like, what's your favorite one? And then like, give our listeners three. easy and quick weekdays like weekday meals, you can make them every week?

Kat Ashmore 11:31

Week? Yeah. Yep. And so look, so the first recipe that always comes to mind when people ask about this is the most complicated recipe in the book. Now, when I say that, it's not complicated. It was very complicated for me to develop it because it took me three years, but it's the three year gluten free bread. And it literally took me three years to perfect this recipe, okay, 1000s of hours of iterations. By the end, I was like asking my husband like, what do you think about the crust on this? And he was just like, I don't know, like, always the same thing, you know? So my new but I'm obsessive. And this is a bread that it's gluten free. So yes, you buy some of the ingredients that maybe you don't have on hand, but like you buy them, you have them. You can mix the dough, you can bake it, and you can eat it in the same day. There's no overnight rest. So if you wake up on a Sunday, I make it every single Sunday, wake up on a Sunday morning, you're like I want fresh bread for dinner. You can have that. So that is a recipe that I'm really, really proud of. And people have been chomping at the bit to get this recipe and it was the one recipe I knew I had to save. Yes. Yeah. Well, I was like, this has to be in the cookbook. The beaks good. All of the baked good recipes are fantastic. It's like my husband is often like, I don't know why people are so crazy about your salads, like it's your baked goods. They're like crazy good and a lot of them are gluten and dairy free or just have less sugar. I'm always looking at how to make how to keep the integrity of a recipe. So that it tastes like you know it is a brownie it is a piece of cake it is those things. It's just like how much can I cut back on the sugar without it affecting the integrity of the recipe and how can I be importing flavor another way? What is the role that this ingredient so I a lot of things go into account. But the New York style Crumb Cake is fantastic. And it basically mimics those, like big squares of crumb cake that every New York corner store sells in cellophane that like vanilla cake with like the bolder size crumb topping. Yeah. Yeah. looks phenomenal.

Katie Chandler 14:02

That's for sure. Yeah.

Kat Ashmore 14:04

I mean, it's just phenomenal. But I really think as you said that dinner is really the Achilles heel for a lot of people. A lot of kills me, right? It's just like, and it's often not very fun to make dinner with your family. I mean, even for me, and I love to cook but usually it's just like I have to cook something because I'm their parent, and that's part of the deal and like, supposed to feed them. I wish they would intermittent fast, but I haven't been successful with that yet. So when it comes to dinner recipes, so I've got two different chapters. There's the Sunday suppers, and then there's the weeknights, chapter. And one of the most popular recipes with my kids aside from the chimichurri meatballs, that kill and betta turkey burgers, like they love the miso teriyaki pork tenderloin, Wine. And it's a really quick thing to make because pork tenderloin, it's, you know, it's lean, it's not expensive, it is quick to make. And you just have this beautiful miso teriyaki glaze that is literally I mean how many ingredients the I think it's five ingredients, and it's fantastic. So stuff like that, where you're able to all enjoy the same protein, maybe your kids won't eat the vegetable or you know, something like that. But at least you're not making completely separate meals all the time. Yeah,

Katie Chandler 15:35

that's what I feel like I'm doing with my youngest and she's my oldest has come around and she'll eat just about anything. I've been in front of her. But your tip, you told us this when you're on the first time of having a safe food that they you know, without a doubt, they're both going to eat. I've been using that ever since and it really does work. But you know, then I end up cooking like an extra protein just to get that in her as well. But I feel like the weeknight thing. It's the time crunch, right? That's why ball so it's not super fun to cook when your bedtime routine is in half an hour. They have to get up early. So blah, blah, blah. You know, it's a totally different story when it's on the weekend. Coming

Amy Sherman 16:13

up with what you're gonna make it That's the worst part. Like every night, like, what are we going to eat? I mean, yesterday. Yeah, when I think about it, like yesterday, I marinated chicken and I did like slip over all day, just throw it in there. And I like forgot I did it. And then at five o'clock, I was like, Ah,

Kat Ashmore 16:27

I forgot I already put that in. So like that was like I don't think about it every day. But like the thinking about it is the worst part, right? You're like, oh, like, plastic problem, right? And everyone says the same thing about it. It's nice to think about it in the morning. Yes. When you're sharper. Ideally, plan out your meals on a Sunday, that's when I like to do it. I do my grocery shop on the weekend. And then I plan out my meals on a Sunday where I'm rested, because nobody's going to be innovative or creative or, you know, even that mindful when they're in a rush, right? Make it enjoyable. But even in the morning, okay, even in the morning, get up out your protein, take a quick look at it, it'll take you five minutes, just like wrap your head around. This is what's happening, even if you do nothing with it, right? It's, it's the mental shift of like, Oh, now I have to think about this. Yeah, in the morning, when you've got the most motivation, the most energy. So

Katie Chandler 17:30

true. Well, and that's what I love about in your book that you hear at Staples, because if everyone has these in their pantry at all times, and you know when they're running low, that's an easy thing to add to the grocery list. And then you pick out a couple of things to add to the grocery list the proteins, vegetables in your set. I mean, sometimes the meal planning through the week, what I need to make those meals happen is overwhelming. So to be able to have something to have your book where it's it's people don't use cookbooks as much as I feel like they used to. And it's all like Google and searching online and Pinterest. It's there's something so refreshing about having a book in my hand, I can open it up and I can say oh, I need 12345 ingredients. And I've got my pantry staples. It's it just simplifies the whole thing. I really thought What is one of your favorite meals to cook when you have like all the time, and you're on it?

Kat Ashmore 18:21

Yeah, when I have all the time. I mean, that's more project cooking. So I love to do things that are just like slow cooked that can kind of like bubble away. I love soups and stews because there's so many different directions you can take them in. They're all about building flavor, which is something I'm really big on. Like the whole soups and stews chapter is. I mean, I hope it's obvious that they're like knock out of the park. Good. But one of the things that my kids actually love are these slow cooked indoor ribs because and they could not when I tell you they are the one of the easiest recipes in the entire book really they cook they literally cook themselves. Okay, so you are doing a combination. I've got spices here I add a little bit of dark brown sugar, you've got paprika, oregano, garlic, onion, coriander, but you can use whatever spice blend you want to. You don't need you I'm not dogmatic about what spices you use. And then the key is just cooking them low and slow. We're talking like 250 degrees for like three and a half to four hours and just forget about them. You take off the tinfoil you Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just so simple. So on a Sunday and the nice thing about that is that when you've got something that you can just forget about, you've got mental energy and physical energy and time to maybe be a little bit more creative and make your own salad dressing. You know, pair it with something else. instead of like, I just have to like steam up some broccoli because I'm supposed to have a vegetable, right?

Amy Sherman 20:06

recipe actually, like doesn't look intimidating at all like this looks like oh, wait, I could make this. Maybe I'll make

Kat Ashmore 20:12

your hiring imitating Yeah, it's not intimidating at all. I

Katie Chandler 20:17

feel I feel like all of your recipes are really approachable. I mean, as I'm flipping through, they're like, five steps, six steps, right, again, five steps.

Amy Sherman 20:27

I mean, it's really figuring out how long

Katie Chandler 20:29

you could do it.

Kat Ashmore 20:30

I think kids. Yeah, that is, that is a huge, a huge part of the recipe development process for me is that much like Coco Chanel says, like, a woman should accessorize and then take one thing off before leaving the house. I am. A lot of my editing is removing things, removing ingredients, removing steps, like how much does this really needs to be done in two bowls? Can it be done in one bowl? Like, maybe I'll add the baking soda at this stage instead. So it activates more. So a lot goes into a recipe being simple, and spirit

Amy Sherman 21:05

thoughtful, almost like harder to make it simple. I would think hard enough to iterate constantly to get it.

Kat Ashmore 21:11

They're harder. I wanted the recipes to almost all be on one page. I I'm always eliminating steps like how much does this really need to chill on the refrigerator? Like, can I get away with it? Maybe I need to replace it with a different ingredient. So I'm always looking at how can I make this? easier, less time consuming? And really just take up less mental energy, you know, and love? Yeah, one

Katie Chandler 21:37

of many reasons why you have three plus million followers on? Is that right? 3 million plus?

Kat Ashmore 21:46

It's not quite it's, I mean, between Instagram and Tiktok on like just under 3 million. Yeah, yeah.

Amy Sherman 21:56

And speaking of the 3,000,001 of the big things that made you go viral was your hungry lady salads, which I know we talked about last time, which we're still obsessed with. And for our listeners, there's a huge section in the cookbook with all the hungry lady salad recipes, which is incredible. Because to have all that in one place. They're so good. If they

Kat Ashmore 22:16

are just chapter, it's the largest chapter in the book. And it's not actually all of the hungry lady salads. Oh, it's just like, your favorite. I mean, I have like 46

Amy Sherman 22:28

Oh my god seven.

Kat Ashmore 22:30

Second book, like just salad. I mean, there are gonna need to be factored in I did actually just redid just signed to do book to Oh, my

Amy Sherman 22:39

God, hey.

Kat Ashmore 22:41

Yeah, that's actually just fine to do both two and three of my

Amy Sherman 22:46

gosh.

Kat Ashmore 22:49

Oh, it's good. I mean, yes, the orders have been so strong. And the enthusiasm has been so strong that it's the way that the community has shown up. It's really our book. And I always say that, like, I am the voice. But you all are the microphone, I don't exist with that. I mean, you get the message out, you get excited about it. Or else I would just be like sitting in my kitchen, like dancing to my food without anybody there. So like that's not quite as effective. But yes, so the hungry lady salad section. So the entire book is about 90% new new recipes. And then 10% fan favorite recipes. Great hungry lady salad section is 18 recipes. So 14 of them are brand new, and four of them are fan favorite. Amazing.

Amy Sherman 23:37

Great. Yeah. Those salads, like I know, we talked about this last time, like you can make them and just have them for like how like a couple of days for the mom with your

Kat Ashmore 23:46

daughter and have them for a long time, even up to a week. I mean, it's yeah, that's I mean, that's what I'm always I'm always wanting to give back that gift of time. You know, one of the things we just never have enough of so taking advantage of when you have some time, make this salad have it in the fridge so that like you have something to look forward to for lunch every day. You know, it doesn't just get the job done. It's like and then you have more mental energy to think about dinner like it's all this all plays into each other. Like I don't want you waking up being like, what am I going to have for breakfast? What am I going to have for lunch? What am I going to have for dinner? You're not going to you're not going to do your best work that way.

Amy Sherman 24:28

It's, it's all laid out. Okay, so this book is truly gorgeous and stunning, like just the photos and the layout and all that stuff. What was your favorite part of like putting this together? I imagine it's such a creative and fun process and I'm sure very, very grueling as well but like what was your favorite part of the whole experience?

Kat Ashmore 24:48

I think my favorite part of the experience was crafting the story around the book. I'm very much a storyteller at heart that is at like the core of All of the content I do, and it has been the most common thread through my whole career, whether it was you know, telling stories on television with Martha or then on corporate side, or as a gourmet foods buyer telling the story on a retail level, and I love to write. So really creating the recipes. I mean, if I had my way I would be in my kitchen, listening to music, just creating recipes, writing recipes, editing recipes, from morning to night, that yeah, like it, there's nothing I love more. And I look at every recipe, like a story, like there are different characters that you need that round out the story. And they bring out certain things in each other. And it creates this like holistic, rich story. So creating the recipes. And then also just like writing the head notes about each recipe because it my communication style is very personal. I want people to feel like they are at home with me cooking with me. And I always love to read that in a cookbook. I want that. That personal element, you know, because it's in there are my favorite stories to read even even now. Yeah,

Amy Sherman 26:15

it's so true.

Katie Chandler 26:16

You do an excellent job with that. Feeling like someone is in in the kitchen cooking with you and

Amy Sherman 26:22

like a friend. Yeah,

Katie Chandler 26:23

it's definitely a piece of huge factor of your fan following and everything you just make. It's like you talk you're talking to your girlfriends or your friends about how to make something or, and that reminds me, we were speaking about it earlier, before we got on that you are fans that your followers are constantly asking you other questions about your life, not just about the food, because they feel like they know you so well. Right? I mean, you guys are very connected. So we were just talking about absolutely stunning your skin is so what skin is scanning all the things that are that's, you know, other things going on in your life like that gorgeous, glowing skin. How are you getting at? What are you doing?

Kat Ashmore 27:03

Thank you. You know, it's still so I'm so grateful and humbled by it. And I really receive all the compliments that I get around my skin now, because I wasn't historically someone that was complimented on their skin like not that it was like horrific at certain points. It just like wasn't that, you know, it wasn't notable. And so it's really amazing. I do work at it. I mean, there's a lot that I do, right? So some people are kind of like, Oh, that's too much. And it might be I mean, for me, I really

Amy Sherman 27:40

we need to hear the whole breakdown because we love this. We need to

Kat Ashmore 27:44

be entire everybody listening? Yes, I mean, take notes. So there's the topical stuff that I use the products and then there's the stuff that I use that I use and just lifestyle choices that help right like, I don't drink alcohol anymore. That helps. Yeah, that absolutely helps. Okay, so I'm just more hydrated on a regular basis, I eat a lot of whole foods that helps I drink a lot of water, that helps I do a cold blast at the end of my shower for 60 seconds. So like as cold as I can stand it. That helps, right? Like I do Transcendental Meditation every day. That helps, right like stress is all of it is reflected in your skin and in the way that you look and the way that you feel is also reflected right. So all of those lifestyle things matter. And then as far as like my skin routine, on a daily basis, how much like into the weeds Do you want me to go we want the weeds like the weeds. Amazing. Okay, so yeah, because it's like a non negotiable for me to do these things. So in the morning, I do my first skincare related thing I do is I do guasha every morning with a base oil. I am very like regimented with my mornings I wake up very early, usually around 434 45 I do like my workout in the mornings. I first thing I have is three two ounces of warm water with lemon and salt. Like those types of things. I do my guasha that's the first skincare related thing. And then I go upstairs before I get in the shower. And literally thinking of everything I did this morning. Before I get in the shower. I love it. I use an oil based cleanser. So I've been using is it better skin for better skin. I think that that's the name of it. Just some kind of an oil based cleanser. Yep. So I will just put that on. I hop in the shower, rinse it off. Like especially in the winter time I'm doing a lot of stuff that is hydrating even when it's cleansing. Yeah. So I will use that. I get out the net First thing I do is I put my toner on, I just like tap it all over my face my Declan Tay, my neck, my hands and then I will put on my red light therapy mask. Which do you guys use a red light therapy mask? Yeah,

Katie Chandler 30:14

fun. Yeah, I don't use it religiously. But I have one anytime you

Amy Sherman 30:17

have the Dr. Dennis gross one er, which one do you have?

Kat Ashmore 30:20

No, I have the current body one. Okay. And I have used it every day for four months. And it's made a really big difference in the, like, tone of my skin. I see brown spots have faded. That's like the biggest difference that I wow. That's how long do you wear it for? 10 minutes. Okay, so what I always do is I put on my robe, I put on the neck one and the face one. And then I do stuff like I pack the kids lunches. I'm never just like sitting hanging out, right? Like I'm always doing multiple things at once. So then I do that. I take that off. And then I use a serum I usually use so my friend Jenna launched a company called bios. And so I don't know if you see it and B Y O F stands for free. You have to look it up. It's like a pink. It's like a pink container. And it's basically like vitamin C and bakuchiol Is it bakuchiol gradient tavas li butchering it, but it's fantastic. It's, it's kind of touted as like a retinol alternative. I still use tret every few days at night, but it's just you know, I use some kind of serum. So I do my serum. And then after that I will do my moisturizer. So I've been loving the Dermalogica moisturizer lately. Fantastic. And then I spray the like a tanning spray. You know Santro PE spray. Oh yeah. So that gives you a really nice glow. And that's my morning is that like a crazy lot and then I take liquid collagen like when I go downstairs which is like completely changed my skin. But that has mostly just changed the skin from like, it's almost like a balloon was blown up in my skin. Yeah, when you plump? Very much so. Okay, it's time at

Amy Sherman 32:27

the gym because I want to shoot. Okay, so what's the nighttime routine?

Kat Ashmore 32:30

nighttime routine is I will do so I take off my makeup with either LMS or again, like an oil base. And I've been using the Dermalogica precleanse lately that I love. I love Dermalogica products, they sent me a bunch of stuff to try. And so I've been using the pre cleanse and I absolutely love it. It's really light. So I take that off. And then I do a second cleanse with just like a set of fill or something like gentle but like a proper cleanse, right? A double cleanse. Yep, yep, yep. And then every I switch it up a little bit where every few days I will use the P 50. By biology reshare shorts is like, great. It's strong. Yeah, I do that. Why is that? Yeah, every few nights, I would say I don't use that if I'm using Tretton Now when that night. I do try it like every third night as well. But one of the things that I swear by is it's called aisle lucette. And it's a French name.

Katie Chandler 33:30

I just ordered it. What is that? I

Kat Ashmore 33:34

use it every single night. It's unbelievable. Do you know how to use it? No.

Katie Chandler 33:37

I was gonna do my research before I came. I ordered it like yesterday.

Kat Ashmore 33:42

Yeah, it is very potent ironic acid cream. Okay, the treatment so it, it won't like burn your skin or anything. I mean, it's like a very nourishing treatment. But you basically put it on damp skin. So I will do that. Like right after I have the toner, I'll just put a little bit of water on my skin. Take like a good sized amount. It's not expensive, which is part of why I like it, because sometimes they'd be like, if something's too expensive. I don't want to use a lot of it. So it's like you can use a good amount. And I just put it all over my face to the point where it looks pretty white still. And then I will just take a little bit of a thick moisturizer like Egyptian magic or something like that. And then I just like Pat, I kind of slug it in in that sense. And you wake up with the most moisturized glowy Oh, yeah. So now I have like French pharmacy

Amy Sherman 34:44

same caterers just talking about that. Yeah, I need to order that. It sounds amazing. So do you do that when you put retinol on because I use Trent known as well. Like is it that you do that on top of the Trent Nolan?

Kat Ashmore 34:54

I do. Okay, some people say not to me You know, you hear different things, whatever. I think you have to be your own physician to play with your cover. What? Yes, exactly. I, I do I find it very, very nourishing. And I'll do a face mask like, maybe once a week. Yeah. Nothing crazy. But that. Yeah, that's one of my favorite products. And that's

Katie Chandler 35:22

what I read about that product is that it pulls moisture into your skin from wherever you're adding the moisture. So like you said, Your face has to be damp before and then you're putting on like a heavy slugging cream afterwards. It's really helping that moisture seep into your skin. So if you read if you use it while your face is dry, and then you don't follow up with a moisturizer, it will actually dehydrate your skin because it'll pull the moisture out.

Kat Ashmore 35:48

And that makes sense. Yeah, so a lot of sense. I like to know the why behind things. So I Yeah, hearing that, because I wasn't aware of that. I just knew you needed to use it on damp skin. Yeah, it's really, it's really fantastic. And then I use that canopy humidifier. Yeah, yeah. So I use that every night. And so I love that you just gave us the whole like, nitty gritty detail because we Yeah, I love that I am like the opposite of a gatekeeper like I want, I will share everything I know it

Amy Sherman 36:24

or not. So I ordered the college and because I had seen you talk about it so many times. And I was like, I need to order this and obviously your skin looks amazing. So I just started at like, I haven't been super disciplined. But lately I have been but I got it maybe like a month ago, so I don't Okay. You know, I know you said it has to you have to do for like a few months for you to like start here for a month. Yeah, we'd

Kat Ashmore 36:43

say yeah, I mean, it worked for me quickly. It was like within the first five weeks, I would say Okay, everybody started commenting on it to me. Wow. My followers like I wasn't planning on even sharing it for three months. Yeah, people are like, what are you you know, asking all these questions and now

Amy Sherman 37:03

you do like the two teaspoons in the morning or two tables table. Every morning.

Kat Ashmore 37:07

My husband takes it now my mom takes a deep dive on me. It's been this it's Modere Okay, and if you see like my the before and afters my college and highlight it's like comical.

Amy Sherman 37:22

No, I watch I was like, before I bought it, I watched it. I'm like, this is incredible. I mean, it's what year the plane was like, I got the one that you recommended, like the plane one it kind of tastes like here. It's like a Yeah, like part. Oh, yes. It's not bad. But there's also flavored ones. Do they kind of work the same? Yes.

Kat Ashmore 37:41

So they're all the same amount of collagen? Yeah. But like it also has hyaluronic acid in it too. Right? So it's like you see a lot of these same ingredients. It's just like I mean, the college is expensive but you can you get what you pay for like I use less Botox now. And I don't use any like eyelash serum anymore.

Amy Sherman 38:03

Oh, really? So it's affecting like your hair grow?

Kat Ashmore 38:06

Yes.

Amy Sherman 38:07

Wow.

Katie Chandler 38:08

What a good for nails also right like the

Kat Ashmore 38:10

the strain our joints? If you I mean, I have been takes it because of his joints. Like he has no shoulder pain for the first time in like 15 years. Wow. It's great. Yeah, it's really good. I mean, I know I get offers. I get like brand deal offers from different supplement companies and stuff like that constantly. You know, I'm going to be very selective with who I work with. Because I don't want to be doing a million different things. Like I want to be doing stuff that works.

Amy Sherman 38:40

And we trust you. I also bought the walking desk, like not the walking desk, the treadmill from you. And it's so funny, because you just I had been researching for a while and then I like forgot about it. And then I saw yours. I'm like, I'm just getting on and she recommends because I know it's good. And that's been so nice. Just not be sitting all day and just like walking during the day. So that's great, because I've noticed, like, obviously, you have so much content around cooking, but now you have a lot of like great lifestyle content. Like I'm wondering, I'm like staring at your sweater slash sweatshirt. I'm like, is that an Amazon or is it here? You

Kat Ashmore 39:13

get it? Like I love it isn't deadly, Steven? Okay. Yeah, it's, you know, it's the kind of thing where I think very much like Martha in a way, like she started out in catering. You know, she became a firebrand. And I just, I've always operated in the sense where I am going to listen to what people want from me. And I'm not going to I'm not going to sit here and think I know what people should want to see from me. I'm going to talk about I mean, like, I am a like, I'm very passionate about the things that I believe in and like creating a life that I'm excited to wake up to every morning. So I talk about it all. I love it and

Katie Chandler 39:56

it's working for you obviously.

Kat Ashmore 39:58

There are so Many food creators and there's so many websites Food Network New York Times cookie, if you just want recipes, go there like, yeah, the only thing that's really different about what I do is that I'm doing it. So I my content is very personality forward like, people better than me, people are taking better photos than me people are putting together better outfits than me. But like, I'm the only unique thing about my brand.

Amy Sherman 40:28

That's right. That's right. And you know what, I always like to follow people like you that have a specialty, right? But then you start seeing their lifestyle, and you get to know them more personally, because that's when you like, can really connect and start trusting and like it just it makes just for better overall content and like, whatever. So we love it all. And you are going on a book tour. I'm read so let's hear about that. Like where where's it starting? Because I was just saying to Katie, I think you're like your first stop is near her. I was like, Katie, you gotta go. Yes.

Kat Ashmore 41:02

So the first event is going to be the 23rd in Madison at RJ Giulia And then third, okay. And then it rolls out where I'm going to be in Danbury of Barnes and Noble there, I'm going to be at the Del Mar in Greenwich for a really fun event. And the kitchen Atlas scowl is going to be making a few of my recipes for the appetizers from the book. So it's really fun. And then I'll be traveling a bit where I'll be in, you know, I'll be in Rhode Island at the William Sonoma in New York at Columbus Circle Boston, Dallas, Texas, I'm going to be hosting an event with my friend Alex from the Define dish. And we're going to be hosting an event together and then Houston and more stops may be added. But I have the full list on both my website and my Instagram. Okay, yeah, you need to come. I know, I'm actually surprised that we haven't prioritized DC yet. I mean, a lot of it is just based on analytics. Right. And we're on the ground. shoveler Yeah, most people are, but I know that I've got we've got a lot of people in DC for sure. Because if you can let me know, as well. Yeah, no, definitely.

Amy Sherman 42:21

I can interview live, we could do an ironic live q&a from the audience. You see what I'm saying? I got it. I got. Um, one other thing I wanted to mention, I know we talked about it last time, and you mentioned it reasonably somewhere. But and I again, always think of you about this, like, what can I add to my plate like that philosophy? So like, if I'm making a salad or I'm making like yogurt in the morning, I think to myself, like, what can I add? That's like healthy that's gonna see shaped me. Like, can I add that? Can I add whatever and like, that has stuck with me. I think it's such a good tip. Yeah, I'm

Kat Ashmore 42:51

so glad it's been huge. For me. It's really been huge for me, because I don't snack that often. Now, and I don't even realize that I don't really snack until people are like, knows that. Like, it's crazy to some people, but my meals are really satiating. So I just, I don't snack that much. And

Amy Sherman 43:12

I need to make I saw in the cookbook, and then I noticed it on your feed when I looked because I totally missed this one over the holidays. Like I love peppermint cookies or anything like peppermint around the holidays. And I saw those peppermint cookies. I was like, You know what I really need to make that they look

Kat Ashmore 43:26

No, they're so good. Yeah, my seven year old said that those are the best cookies he's had in his life so far. Like, well, I mean, that is the ultimate review. Yeah, absolutely. Like, you'll note that there's granulated sugar, and there's butter. Yeah, there. Yeah, I am not afraid of classic baking ingredients and not afraid of any ingredients. I want. A cookie tastes like a really good cookie. So

Amy Sherman 43:57

if you're gonna have it, you might as well. Yeah, we're just

Kat Ashmore 44:00

like, how much do we actually need? And by cutting back on this, what changes do I need to make so that we still get the texture we want? We still get the Browning we want. You know all of that. That's just that's my way. But

Katie Chandler 44:14

we're still letting a cookie be a cookie. Yeah,

Kat Ashmore 44:16

very much. And again, that way you aren't feeling like, Oh, I'm going to this place. Do I need to make like, healthy cookies that I'm going to want to eat? Or do I need to make like totally indulgent cookies that I can't eat but other people will enjoy? It's like, No, you can you can do both.

Amy Sherman 44:33

You can do both. Okay, like we could literally talk to you all day. We love you. We love like so fun. I just like and we need to meet in person. So Katie, and I need your book tours like this is

Kat Ashmore 44:45

great. We have to make that happen. Email me and we'll we'll chat about

Amy Sherman 44:49

that. Well, we'll figure out something. So let's get into our little rap session. I know we did this last time but I'm sure well, we basically like the first question what's your favorite wellness or beauty hack? I feel like we went through your whole routine. So we Love it. But just give us one thing like your favorite hack.

Kat Ashmore 45:02

Yeah, I'm okay. My favorite wellness hack, I will say because this is a mental wellness and we haven't talked about it but yeah complimenting a stranger a day. I do it every day. Oh, I love

Katie Chandler 45:13

that. I think I saw that on your content at some point. Did you talk about it at some point?

Kat Ashmore 45:17

Yeah, I have I've talked about until that's why I compliment one stranger a day. And I will also like, anytime I go to the grocery store, I get an extra bouquet of flowers, and then I will give it to someone in the parking lot. Sometimes they have to, like be a little bit creepy and like, follow people to their car. Because there aren't a lot of people here today. But I do it for myself. I love that when I'm having a bad day. It's this storyline of like, I'm not any good. I'm not enough. That's usually what is at the heart of it. So like, the best way for me to get back in touch with my goodness is by doing a good deed. And so instantly, I feel like I'm a good person. So it's not completely all altruistic. And

Amy Sherman 46:05

yeah, it makes you feel good. And it makes make someone's day.

Kat Ashmore 46:09

That's completely. Yeah, I swear by.

Katie Chandler 46:14

It shuts down those automatic negative thoughts that we all have. Right. It's like,

Kat Ashmore 46:19

quiet outside yourself. Yeah. That's great.

Katie Chandler 46:24

All right. So you gave us the play by play of the routine. What's the five minute flow? How you get out the door quickly? Uber's right around the corner.

Kat Ashmore 46:34

That was this morning for me literally before I had to jump on to something. So the one so I have I've been under painting, which I swear by doing, you know, the contour or bronzer and the blush, whatever underneath, whatever kind of foundation you're wearing. Or tinted sunscreen, but I have been using this slip tent by

Amy Sherman 46:59

Oh, I use that. So good. I'm obsessed with

Kat Ashmore 47:03

that. So I'm obsessed with it. I love the Ilia Skin Tint too, but like this is my newest obsession. And this concealer by Natasha de Nonna. Oh, I've heard of Yeah, I've heard of Taylor I've ever used really filler of every list. Yes. Yes. You can like bring it down. If you're not wearing anything else. You can bring it down a bit and just spot treat and treat that as like you're on vacation. Yeah, so that is like, huge. And then I will be like very much like a multiuse person where if I'm putting a little bit on my lip, I'll just like that, you know, dab it on making you and then Thrive mascara is my jam. I use that with a CoverGirl primer. Perfect. I don't know. Yeah. Just quick out the door. Yeah, but you know what it is? Don't Don't you feel like it's the high maintenance to be low maintenance thing, because I do so much with my skincare. I don't 100% do that much.

Amy Sherman 48:04

I don't need to do that. Yeah, I also find and Katie, and I've talked about this before, like the older you get, the less makeup, you need to if you're taking care of your skin like yeah, makeup doesn't look as good as like because your texture is different. So like, the less you can wear the better. But to your point, you got to do a lot of stuff to make it where your skin looks dead. So you don't really have to wear much, but just like a little thing here or there.

Katie Chandler 48:25

That's right. Yeah. Yeah, too much makeup. The older you get. I feel like is ages,

Amy Sherman 48:30

people who didn't do it totally does it totally. The

Katie Chandler 48:33

base has to be in shape. The skins got to be Yeah, on point. All right. So I know what your how you maintain your daily nirvana. Remember what you said last time? I'm curious what it is this time if it's same or not? How do you maintain that?

Kat Ashmore 48:48

Meditation is huge for me. That's like, oh, that's one of the big I mean, it's a non negotiable, it has totally changed my life where I'm just so much less reactive to external circumstances. It grounds me in something really solid. So that's huge. And also daily movement exercises. Like some kind of daily movement, whether it's, you know, walking, doing an incline walk in the morning, going to a, you know, a bar class, just like working my body out.

Amy Sherman 49:20

It just like something. You got it. Yeah.

Katie Chandler 49:23

You've been practicing Transcendental Meditation for years, right?

Kat Ashmore 49:26

I have. Yeah.

Amy Sherman 49:27

Anyway, you're doing that at some point. You inspired

Katie Chandler 49:30

me to find the Westport or the, you know, the Fairfield County representative here and I started working with her. Like a year ago, I hung up with her for a while I've fallen off I need to go to one of them. You know, like, refresher.

Kat Ashmore 49:45

Yeah. Just to get you back then. Yeah, yeah, of course. And, you know, meditation is one of those things where people always feel like I'm not good at it. And it's just like, nobody's good at it. Right? Right. was against everything in us as a human to like, it's hard, or water.

Amy Sherman 50:05

I appreciate it when I do it. I really don't do it a lot. But when I do it, I appreciate it so much. And I have to I feel like at least for me, because I'm not I don't do TM or anything like that I'll just do like a, Melissa would help like just someone guiding me and that helps. But I really need to force myself to do it more because you're right, like every time I do it, I feel so much more grounded. I just like don't worry, you know, put it in your calendar. If you do that's the way that I implement a new habit is I put it Yeah, calendar I put it in my phone. Repeat every day. Well, I have my I put this on our Instagram, but I have my like, my yearly mood board on my screensaver as my phone and it literally the best tip like we're kidding are building your year to doing this. It takes two seconds you like do it on your Well, this one, I think I made this one make a mood board. You basically you could do it a super easy way. Or you could make it more complicated. But the super easy way to do it is you take nine photos from your phone like you could just find inspo anywhere like, quote on Instagram, it's something from patients wherever you just take those last nine photos in your phone, you screenshot it and you put it as a screensaver. It's like the easiest thing. This I think I made in like Canva, which took me two seconds. But I just took a bunch of things. I literally downloaded it and now it's on my screen. And so it's like my reminders of are my things that I want to do that. I'm ready to go fast. Because I've been every year I always have these things. And it's like I write it down. And then I never look at it. And this was like, I started doing the nine photos. But then I was like We don't want to add more things. So then I of course like wanted to make a fun collage. But the easiest way is just like take a screenshot of this last name photos, or 12 manifest

Kat Ashmore 51:51

whatever it is. I just wrote it down. Yeah.

Amy Sherman 51:53

I love that. Yeah, we want to hear. So it's been it's fabulous. Yeah, I I love it. And I actually there's this quote on here that I had last year and I carried it over to the shirt. And my husband was like, will you sent me that quote, which was so cute. And the quote is, and it's by this person, Judy Haller, who's actually just like, she's like a keynote speaker. I've just been following her for years. And the quote is, assume the best will happen. Which I love. Because how many times are we always like, oh, like you always think negative. You're like, Oh, what if this happens? What if my husband's like, very skeptical about everything? So like, he saw that quote, and he was like, Oh, can I have that? And I was like, Yeah, I mean,

Kat Ashmore 52:34

that too.

Amy Sherman 52:36

I mean, yeah, that's so it's like, such a good thing to think about, because there's so many times right, where you're like, thinking through something, and then sometimes I'll just change my mindset will be like, but what if this happens instead? You know, even even with my kids like, a basketball game, well, what if I do that or whatever? But what if you don't? What if this happens, right? Like, right, he might spend

Kat Ashmore 52:58

time projecting the future you might as well do it positively.

Katie Chandler 53:01

Or just for what you want. Yeah, I

Kat Ashmore 53:05

love that. Yeah.

Amy Sherman 53:06

Anyway, well, like I said, we could talk all day, but this is nice. Thank you for your time was so good. Everybody, check out cash, Moore's book, big bites, and of course, she's on Instagram and Tiktok and all the things. We love it. We love you. Thank you so much for coming back. Congratulations on everything and we will chat soon. Can't wait. Thank

Kat Ashmore 53:27

you so much for having me.

Amy Sherman 53:30

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to buy

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Episode 140 - Refine Your Year: We Dive Into 10ish Wellness Trends In and Out for 2024. (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 140.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Speaker A: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker B: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

Speaker A: You welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters fam. It's Amy and Katie. And we are back. I was thinking, Katie, this is the third year in a row that we are doing our 20, our wellness trends. So this year is 2024. But it's crazy that we're in our third year of doing this. And it's funny because I feel like a lot of the things that we talk about in these wellness episodes end up that we start seeing that through the year or we've already interviewed someone about it. And so every year when I'm researching this, it's so fun to me.

Speaker B: 100%. I totally agree. And beauty trends also, not just wellness fun, forecasting it and then seeing the buz on it and everything. So it's exciting. I love it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so I'll kick it to you. We're just going to bang through these really quickly and high level it for you all.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think a big trend that we are going to see, that we've started to see. And it's really, I feel like just scratching the tip of the iceberg. Is that a saying? Scratching the tip of the iceberg?

Speaker A: I know what you mean. Scratching the surface.

Speaker B: Surface is the more exposure and more open conversation to women's health. Circling menopause and perimenopause. There's a lot of celebrities that have started brands or products targeted towards menopause. There is more discussion about it. It's becoming less taboo, as we have discussed over the last couple of years, we've had many guests about, I think, you know, pop culturally, seeing a lot of celebs like Naomi Watts, she started her brand stripes. That's a women's products for dry skin and vaginal dryness and things like that. And then ever now, telehealth medicine for menopause is a company that is getting started by Drew Barrymore and going to be, it's supposed to be online menopause treatment and personalized care based on real science. That's what it says on their website. And it's telehealth that is going to be widely available. And then Judy Greer. Yeah, it's very cool. Judy Greer, she's the founder of wild supplements and those are menopause and perimenopause supplements. So I think it's just a matter of time before this thing that has always been kind of like hush hush. It's definitely getting more and more out there. I think it's going to be even more so. And we're going to see a lot of that in 2024, which is great.

Speaker A: That's a great, yeah.

Speaker B: Speaking of, I had, like, full blown perry yesterday, like vertigo, like you. And I was thinking I needed to text you, but I was having a migraine. I couldn't even look at my phone.

Speaker A: Oh, my God.

Speaker B: Thank God for all of this stuff.

Speaker A: I know. I'm really happy to see there's more visibility because I think, again, it used to be like a dirty word. Nobody wanted to talk about it. And you're seeing more and more people starting to talk about it to normalize it, because to your point, perimenopause can go on for ten years. People just don't like, they don't realize what it is. So I think the more education, more awareness, the better.

Speaker B: So what is your first trend? What's your buz. That you've been hearing?

Speaker A: So when I was doing some research, I saw something that caught my attention from forbes, and it was vagus nerve stimulation, which I know we've talked about many times, which is amazing, but to actually see it written in, like, a mainstream magazine, and basically there was a woman interviewed and she said, I'm seeing a huge increase in interest from the wellness community in the vagus nerve, and how simple stimulation of this cranial nerve can counteract the fight or flight response in our body. And we have a few episodes regarding the vagus nerve, but I think, again, that is like a term we probably didn't even think about, hear of a couple of years ago, a year ago, and now I think that's becoming more into the forefront. So whether that vagus nerve stimulation is through deep breathing, mindfulness, and then it was funny because I read that it also said, even humming or laughing has been shown to calm the body after the flight or flight response is triggered. And so I know when we spoke with Steph Magenta, and we recently did that replay, she was talking about humming. And I've noticed that I've been adding that in, like, when I'm feeling a little anxious, just doing a little hum, for some reason, that helps. So anyway, that whole idea of vagus nerve stimulation and different tools you can do, whether that's like, through an external tool or just using something in your body to calm yourself, is in the forefront. And I think it's really important. And a great tool for our listeners.

Speaker B: I saw that article, and that was on my list for today because I. It's really interesting. It's so becoming so prevalent that in that article, it said the vagus nerve stimulation has been viewed over 55 million times on TikTok. Oh, wow. So there is definitely something to be said for people are taking notice. And you have a friend that had a tool that was a Vegas nerve stimulator that we used, and it was so cool after we used it, we were really relaxed and mellow. Do you remember that?

Speaker A: Yes. It was like a tool that you put on your neck, and it makes your lip kind of move a little bit.

Speaker B: Yeah. And it stimulates your vagus nerve.

Speaker A: Yeah, I forgot what it's called. Like, true Vega or something like that.

Speaker B: Yeah. We need to find out and we'll put it in the show notes because it really is very cool. I want to get one and then just one other vague stimulator that is so easy to do is sighing. Did you know that?

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: You think about it. You do it when you're stressed. People sigh when they're tired or stressed. If you're stressed, like, that's so true.

Speaker A: I feel like when I get in the car, I just do that. I'm so funny. You know another thing that Steph Magenta told us, which I do all the time now and again, I don't know if this is Vegas nerve or what it is, but a breathing technique is just, like, in for four and out for, like, I feel like I was always doing the breathing in, but the breathing out for four helps because then it's, like, balance instead of just breathing in and then just shortly breathing out. Just that long breath. Do that a couple of times is really helpful.

Speaker B: Yeah. All right, fake nerve.

Speaker A: What do you have next?

Speaker B: So my next one is a beauty trend that I think we're going to see a lot of hearing a lot about the 90s makeup coming back. So to be, like, a little bit more specific, I think we're going to see less of the laminated, thick eyebrows and more of the natural, maybe even too thin, which I don't love eyebrows coming in, and then less of the super dramatic mascaras and lashes. A little bit more natural there. But this was one that I'm really excited to try is lipsticks that have kind of, like, a brown undertone to them. Yeah. Elf has come out with a few. Nyx has come out. Merit dior, like, really beautiful brown, burgundy ish, pretty colors.

Speaker A: There was this one brown lipstick I wore in the course I can't remember the name of it. I'll have to think of it. But you know what I'm talking about. There was like two lipsticks that everyone wore. There was one kind of frosted pink one.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Do you know what I'm talking about? Of course. I can't remember the name. It was like maybelline lean or something. And then there was a brown one like that, too. I have to research and try to figure out those.

Speaker B: You should try to find, you know.

Speaker A: What I'm talking about, though.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, colors in my head, I.

Speaker A: Remember that frosty pink and I remember that brown. It was like a late color. I can't remember, but I've got to look it up.

Speaker B: Latte brown. It's pretty.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: I remember there was ones that smelled like lattes and things like that. They're still like lip gloss like that. So the 90s makeup. Yeah, I've heard as well. Blue, which I'm not really into, like blue eyeshadows and things like that frosted look. So we'll see which way that goes.

Speaker A: Yes. Well, on the note of blue. Well, I'll tell you my next one, then I'll go back to blue because I had some other fun things about blue. But I have something very funny, which you probably read it, because I have a feeling we're looking at the same sources, but we're always talking about our favorite category of self care, which is bedrotting. I found a new name for it. Okay, you ready, everybody? It's called, and I will probably butcher this name, but Dolce Farniente, a wellness trend we're seeing and certainly encouraging in 2024, is what we Italians call Dolce Farniente, or the sweetness of doing nothing, said Andrea Quadro Carizo, co founder of QG Spa of Wonders, which offers twelve destination spas and seven wellness resorts around the world. As a society, we're overstressed, over scheduled and overtired, leaving little room for joy and wonder or open ended self care. But we've begun seeing the pendulum swing in the other direction. We now aspire to achieve work life balance that Italians are famous for and practicing doing nothing, clearing your brain and schedule, is the first step on the road to true wonder in relaxation. So, of course, this resonated with me immediately. And then I laughed because I was like, I can't wait to talk about this with Katie, because that one just sounds very much more, I don't know what I'm saying. Much more.

Speaker B: It's way more glamorous than glamour. That's rotting. Yeah.

Speaker A: Dolce farniente.

Speaker B: Dolce Farnie and day.

Speaker A: That's going to be doing all year long. It's literally when I go to my calendar on a Saturday and I have no plans. It's the best day ever for me. I could do nothing or I could do something. It's up to me.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Anyway, we'll see more of that this year, which I'm very happy to see.

Speaker B: Dolce Fernie and day. Did I say it right?

Speaker A: I think so. I don't know.

Speaker B: All right, perfect.

Speaker A: We need someone italian to tell us.

Speaker B: Yeah, we do. We need Italian. All right, my next one is called skin streaming. And I saw this, inStyle.com, it's their big forecast, 2024 trends skin streaming, which is essentially just streamlining one's skincare. People are going away from the ten step process with all of the different things and trying to streamline and get more of your actives and hydrators and everything into maybe three or four products instead of ten. And just to simplify so that they can have more dolce foundiente.

Speaker A: Nice. I like the tie back.

Speaker B: I am for sure in that camp because I have gotten down to, like, I think, two or three products, and I'm pretty pleased with it. Right now. There's only one product that I want to get into my skincare routine, and once I do, I'm going to be set.

Speaker A: So is that morning and night you only have a few products.

Speaker B: Morning I have two products. Night I have three products. And I would like to add in. I need an active. I need a vitamin C. So I'm going to throw a vitamin C into my morning and then I feel like I'm going to be solid. I'm good.

Speaker A: Well, it's funny that you say that. So I've noticed that, too, with products. And I think we talked with this at one point of just like brands now, instead of just like having a niacinamide and having all these separate ingredients, they're combining more. So to your point about vitamin C, you might want to try the one that I've reviewed before, the wise beauty. Vitamin C, because it has vitamin C, niacinamide and hyaluronic acid, I believe, and maybe some, and maybe some ceramides. I can't remember exactly what's in it, but it's a couple of things. So when you're using it, it's not like you have to use four different things. It's all together and it's really nice. So that might be a good one for you. To try and it's not irritating. You want a good vitamin.

Speaker B: Exactly. I need to try it because that's like the point, right? Get your actives and your peptides into one, right?

Speaker A: You don't need like ten different individual products? No, I like that idea a lot.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, my next one still on the Forbes article. And it's funny because I've heard this term a few times lately, and I didn't know what it was literally until yesterday because I was listening to another podcast that was talking about this as part of a different subject, but rucking. R-U-T-K-I-N-G. Not to be confused with the other word, but that would be good too.

Speaker B: That's good too.

Speaker A: But rucking is literally walking with a weighted backpack. So I guess this was something that a lot of, like, I don't know if it was bodybuilders or weightlifters type.

Speaker B: People did, but military also.

Speaker A: Oh, is that what it is? That's probably what it's from. I think it's like a nod to back in the hunter gatherer days when people would carry their materials and food and using your body to carry weights, especially for women, as you grow older and your muscle gets weaker. This other podcast I was listening to was talking about how you should obviously be lifting weights, but rucking is a really good way to kind of do that when you're walking. So I have not tried this yet, but it says that it will be a top wellness trend in 2024 as people look to build endurance, improve heart health, burn calories, and strengthen bones. And it does say to. We're saying. While rucking has traditionally been seen as a high intensity and suitable only for the uber fit, new fitness brands will make wrecking more accessible and mainstream with weighted packs designed with different bodies in mind and a load starting at a lower, more accessible weight. So I'm hoping that some of these cute brands, like Bala or something, comes up with cute weighted backpacks. So it's just like ten pounds or five pounds instead of like these crazy ones. Anyway, I thought that was cool because you go on a walk anyway, you might as well throw something on your back and try it out.

Speaker B: Yeah, in the military, they call it your rucksack. Rucksack.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: I think it's literally like they're carrying their backpack with all of their things that are going to get them through whatever the job is for the day. So it's weighted. It's heavy, right? Yeah.

Speaker A: That's like what backpackers. I mean, when I was in college and I backpacked around Europe, like, you had your backpack on your back. I mean, that's how you're getting around. So it's a kind of, like, old school practice, but more visibility on it.

Speaker B: Yeah, I like that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Nice. All right, well, my next one, and this is really my next few, are things that we saw a lot of in 2023 that I don't think are going anywhere that we're going to see a lot more of. And cold plunge, for sure. Cold plunge, sauna, red light, that category, that's a trifecta. The three of those people. I mean, of course, it's people that are a little bit more well to do. They're able to have these things in their home. It's not the most accessible thing, but there are a lot of people that are getting saunas and cold plunges and red light therapies, and then there's great places that you can go to, like restore hyper wellness and other med spas that are offering all of these things. And I think it's just going to be more and more popular. There's so much science behind how beneficial.

Speaker A: There's also accessible, like the higher dose blanket that I've been seeing that's much more accessible. There's red lights just that you could put on your desktop again, that are much more accessible. And then for cold plunge, I just. At the end of my shower, when I'm feeling brave, I don't know, maybe most of the week, I do like, or I try to do a minute of cold, it probably ends up being ten to 15 seconds, but it does help wake me up. I didn't do it today. I forgot. But, yeah, see, there you go.

Speaker B: You just broke it down. Totally accessible ways to do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Or jump in a lake.

Speaker A: Jump in a lake.

Speaker B: Exactly where it's cold.

Speaker A: Jump in the east river. I'm just kidding. So back to the blue. Aquamarine makeup is back and bolder than ever. 2024. Gen Z and millennials will find new ways to incorporate this 60s staple into their modern beauty routines. And I agree, like, the little much to do the whole eyeshadow thing. But Michaela, who's massive makeup artist on TikTok, she just came out. She had created a line with P. Louise that it's all, like, blue and beautiful. So she must have known that this blue eyeshadow is coming or just maybe predicted it. But I have a couple stats, which I thought were fun. So blue eyeshadow aesthetic was that. This is. According to Pinterest predicts, blue eyeshadow aesthetic was up 65% last year, fun blue nails were up 260%, light blue prom makeup up 70%.

Speaker B: Oh, my.

Speaker A: Aqua makeup look up 100%. And blue quince or blue quince makeup up 85%. I don't know what that is, but the only one that resonated with me was fun blue nails, because I do tend to get blue nails occasionally, and I have seen some really cute. Mine are, like, kind of greenish right now, but I have seen some really cute, bright, kind of, like, royal blues, which I would definitely try. That's fun cute.

Speaker B: What's quince? Kensey Quince.

Speaker A: I don't know why I wrote it. Kense. Q-U-I-N-C-E-I don't know what it means. I'll look it up while you're telling me your next trend.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's interesting. The blue prom. That's so funny.

Speaker A: I know. How funny is that?

Speaker B: I'm literally seeing pictures of my mom when she went to prom.

Speaker A: I know. I do love that 60s blue eye. Not for me, but I do love that look.

Speaker B: That would look. So the next trend that I am reading a lot about are bracket sports, and pickleball was all the rage in 2023. Right. I knew people that were all of a sudden playing pickleball like crazy, and I thought it was for, like, I don't know, 80 year olds.

Speaker A: I know.

Speaker B: It's a very fun sport. People are really getting into it, which I think is great. It's a less intense version of tennis or racquetball, and it's supposed to be a very social sport. Have you played pickleball?

Speaker A: I have played a few times, yeah. I've played with the boys.

Speaker B: It's fun.

Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know all the rules, but it's fun.

Speaker B: So pickleball was big in 2023. Badminton is on the rise for 2024. Dr. Daniel. Amen. I was listening to a podcast with him, and he is a leading neuroscientist. He was saying that people that do racket sports, they have, like, brain longevity. So badminton is a racket sport played using rackets to hit a shuttlecock across a net. Although it may be played with larger items, the most common forms of the game are singles and doubles, and it's the one that has the white thing that looks.

Speaker A: It has, like, a ball on the end and then.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: Waffley thing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: There's also something called, I want to say not pickleball, but paddleball, and I don't know what that is either.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But apparently that's a big thing, too.

Speaker B: That paddleball racquetball, tennis, badminton, even ping pong. Those are all considered racket sports that are really good for your brain health, apparently. So I don't know if that's why it's on the rise or it's just a new social activity, but.

Speaker A: New social activity, yeah. And it's maybe more. It's your point. Like, pickleball is a little bit easier than tennis because you're not, like, running across the big thing. But pickleball can be intense if you watch people play. And I also. Who was it? I feel like I saw or read or heard somewhere that there's been so many more cases of knee injuries in the last few years because of pickleball, because so many people play and will stop short and hurt their knee, which makes sense. I could see that. So just be careful. But I like that. And I think that is a good way to. I mean, think about ping pong, right? When you're playing, you're like, yeah, it's so fast. It's so fast. So I can see that that's a good brain exercise. Okay, next one I have is in the beauty realm. Sticking with that. By the way, I looked up kinsei makeup while you were talking, and I'm not sure, but I think it might have to do with, like, quinceignera.

Speaker B: Oh, okay.

Speaker A: Something like that.

Speaker B: That's what I very initially thought when you.

Speaker A: Okay, next one. Head to glow. So body care will have a major moment in 2024. Boomers and Gen Z will double down on luxury lotions and in home spa experiences. So a couple fun search deaths. So sunscreen was up 75% last year. Body lotion aesthetic was up 245%. Spa aesthetic, I guess, to design your home, was up 60%. Body skincare routine up 1025%. And body care was up 845%. So it's interesting, what we're seeing now is people, like, they've got their skincare routines down. They're, like, in a rhythm, but now they're like, wait, what about the rest of my body? What's a good routine for that? So I think that was a good one. We don't really talk about that too much.

Speaker B: No, it's true. And I was just teaching Madeline this, by the way. Sidebar. Maddie asked me to teach her how to shave her legs, my ten year old. So we did that with a real razor or electric. With a real razor.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker B: Yeah. Went through the whole thing. But that reminds me, because I am trying to get her to understand that she should put lotion on her body every day. And I don't know what point in my life I started doing it, but I've been doing it for decades. And it's something that unless someone, I think, tells you to do it as you're growing up, it's not like first nature to just put lotion all over your body. Right.

Speaker A: When you have a baby, you're doing every night, you do your bath time routine and you put your lotion on and everything.

Speaker B: Exactly. So I like it. Body care, body lotion.

Speaker A: Good one. I'm still using my body oil that I've been using for a long time that I think I've talked about several times on the show. And now I just do it like, I keep it in my shower now. So I just tell off of my shower and do it there. And it's so good because it just stays on better. It keeps my skin moisturized.

Speaker B: I love it. Yeah, I need to get some of that. I want to try it. But it is true.

Speaker A: If you think about just really quickly, like how you're exfoliating your face, how often are we exfoliating our body? Right. And things like that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I just bought a great. When we were in Montreal. It's kind of like a mitt that is an exfoliant. It's really thin, but it's really, really nice. I got it from this beautiful store. I should reference it because her store was gorgeous, but I use that from time to time, and it's just my skin feels, like, so good afterwards.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's nice.

Speaker B: Nice. All right, well, my last one is a continuation of seeing adaptogens and nootropics. Mushrooms. I mean, when we had Julia Marar on the show a few years ago, talking about psilocybin and mushrooms, having psychedelic experience as therapy, I feel like that was so early in this revolution of what's happening with psilocybin and mushrooms. That's the one extreme. And then the adaptogens and the nootropics and things like that is the other. And you're just seeing it more and more like you're seeing lion's mane in gorilla and mushroom coffee and adaptogens everywhere. So I think it's great. More products are readily available with these things where I go to get my coffee in the morning before I hop on the train. They make the most amazing overnight oats. Dairy free overnight oats. And she makes her own granola that has lion's mane and reishi in it and a few other things. And it is so good. I love it. I'm obsessed that's good. Yeah.

Speaker A: I have a coffee that think it's. I think the brand's four sigmatic. We'll put the link up, and it also has mushrooms in it, in the beans, and it's supposed to help you focus more and yada, yada. So I love it. Okay, well, I have two more, and they're kind of related. They're still both in beauty. So the first one, which is not surprising, is just like hair longevity. So basically, talking about not only trying to, how a lot of people were losing hair during the pandemic, and it's become like a bigger challenge with women losing their hair. So there's that piece which we've talked about a lot, or it's becoming more visible, but there's also just, like, the skin, scalp health, and being proactive about your scalp. So the fun fact that I found was the skin on your scalp ages faster than the skin anywhere else on your body, and the effects are written all over your strands. So while multistep skincare routines prioritize longevity by smoothing, brightening, and tightening, such as, sorry, such a focus hasn't extended to the hair on our head. So in 2024, this was an article in well and good. It was saying, prepare to rethink your hair care routine with longevity in mind. And there's tons of new product launches that help with that. I see a lot now about, like, hair oiling and just different things for the scalp. And it's funny because we talked about this a few years ago with Eris, the founder of Scene and CEO or founder of the company. And she was really into the scalp health because she's a dermatologist. And so she obviously got this before it became a little bit more mainstream. But we're going to see a lot of products that helps to address that. I thought that was relevant because I started, I'm trying to be better with taking care of my hair, with doing some sort of weekly oil massage and deep mass conditioner on my ends or something like that. So when I do my big wash, I do that before. I've been trying to do that just to get my hair in a better place, because I just feel like it's been frizzy and not as healthy. So, yeah, more products coming out about hair longevity.

Speaker B: Love that. Yeah.

Speaker A: And then the last one that is sort of similar but not really, is skin barrier health, which I also saw popping on well and good, and basically, like, strength training, your skin, it says, will become the most single most important part of your beauty routine in 24 and it's basically saying that a strong skin barrier is crucial for overall skin health, protecting against external elements and retaining moisture. So everyday habits like improper use of actives can compromise the skin barrier, leading to dryness, irritation, acne. It's also talked about how niacinamide, which we've talked about a million times, has gained popularity for its gentle yet effective properties in brightening skin and addressing various concerns without irritation. And then traditional barrier building ingredients like ceramides, glycerin, fatty acids, often complemented by calming ingredients like, I've never heard of this, Cantella Asiatica and colodial oatmeal, which is funny because I just talked about that oatmeal serum. And then it also said that body care is following the trend with barrier friendly products from different brands that help with the barrier of your actual skin, not just your face. So it says there's drugstore luxury brands all introducing products for severe barrier concerns. I know when Natasha B. Was on our show, she recommended a couple face moisturizers that were good for barrier, but for skin barrier. But this was saying there's a few brands for body care called Marie Veronica Spyclart, which I haven't heard of, Ren and Pericone, MD, which have barrier friendly skin products. I thought that was interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah, I like that. And it's funny as we're going through, like, I'm noticing a trend within our trends, and I feel like this is something that we're seeing a lot of is longevity. Longevity in every category, instead of products and activities and things that are like, instant gratification. I do feel like there's a little bit more of a focus on what can I do now to just keep this going and improve and longevity, long lasting.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I think it's great. Brain health, skin, hair.

Speaker A: Right. What can I do now? The proactive things, not trying to react to like, oh, I'm losing hair, but to prevent it from happening in the first place. Just like you eat clean because you want to have healthy gut and all of that. It's catching up to all of these things. To your point, the rucking that helps to build strong muscles so you don't.

Speaker B: Lose muscle mass. Exactly. Longevity. All right, 2024, here we come. Longevity.

Speaker A: And the year of Dolce Farniente.

Speaker B: Dolce Farniente.

Speaker A: I love it. Hope you all enjoyed this, and I'm sure we'll be talking about many of these trends in future episodes as well. And see you next week. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters if you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 133 - Just In Time For The Holiday Party Season: Zero Hangovers With ZBiotics CEO & Co-Founder, Dr. Zack Abbott (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 133 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Speaker A: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker B: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome to the show nirvana Sisters family. Today we are sitting down with Dr. Zach Abbott. Zach is the CEO and co founder of ZBiotics. Zach has a PhD in Microbiology and Immunology from the University of Michigan and holds a bachelor's degree from UC Berkeley, where he double majored in Immunology and Classical art and Archaeology. During his PhD, the focus of Zach's thesis was on bacterial gene regulation. That sounds super interesting. And he became an expert at understanding how bacteria turn on and off different functions in response to their environment. After his PhD, zach then had the idea to apply his expertise to the world of safe edible probiotic bacteria. He wanted to engineer these probiotic bacteria, which to date had only been leveraged for the generalized and inconsistent benefits to do a very specific and usual function directly inside the human body. Combining the tools of genetic engineering with the safe microbes already around us, his goal was to create something new, a microbe trained to do something that provided a unique, specific, intangible benefit for people. Zach dove into the research project that would eventually become ZBiotics. He holed up his lab in Berkeley, California, often sleeping next to his lab bench. I'm sure there were some long nights and after twelve months emerged with the prototype of the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. So that's all super interesting and really exciting and I can't wait to tell our listeners about it because I am a very big fan of ZBiotics and have been using it for quite some time. So welcome to the show.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, thanks so much for having me. I feel like maybe I could have done a better job writing that bio, but glad I'm excited to get into it with you.

Speaker B: No, the bio is great. I mean, we need to know the nitty gritty for sure, especially with something that is as interesting as this. So for the listener, ZBiotics is a pre alcohol probiotic. And the best way that I can describe it is you take it essentially with your first alcoholic beverage and it cures you of your hangover. You wake up the next day feeling, I think, pretty great. I've always felt really good on it and I think I've used it, I want to say like four or five times over the last couple of years. When did the product start? When did you first launch?

Speaker C: Yeah, we launched it in August of 2019, so it's been around for about a little over four years.

Speaker B: Very cool. All right, so break it down for us. Tell our listeners, what is Zbiotic's? Pre alcohol probiotic.

Speaker C: Totally. Yeah. So first and foremost, I'll say that you mentioned the word hangover. And I think that that term we found is a very loaded term for people and they associate it with a lot of things that maybe we don't really mean or that we're going to get into. And so, really talk about kind of the idea that this product, the purpose of the product is to kind of be like another tool in your toolbox, along with other responsible drinking habits to help you kind of land on your feet and get more done the next day. Maintain those healthy habits and routines. And so some people associate a hangover with kind of like binge drinking and kind of like misery or throwing up on the toilet, things like that that are not really I think that's above and beyond for some people. And so this product is more around kind of definitely making you feel better the day after drinking and some people kind of refer to that as a hangover but not everybody kind of thinks the same way. So anyway, happy to describe. Yeah, so exactly as you said the product, it's a pre alcohol probiotic. So you take that product before you drink and then when you drink alcohol is sort of broken down into this toxic byproduct called acid aldehyde in your body. And so this acid aldehyde is kind of responsible for some of the things that you might feel the next day. Some of the important things that kind of interrupt how much you're likely to get on kind of with your day. And so our product is a bacteria probiotic bacteria that can basically break down that acid aldehyde as it forms while you're drinking so that you can feel better the next day. And so that's the general idea.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's fair to say the way that maybe I first positioned it, it might sound like one is using this for a really big night. And sure, of course, but it's also kind of like the wellness person's way of processing this essentially toxic thing that we're putting into our bodies and helping us break it down better so that we feel much better the next day, whether it's a couple of drinks or a big night out. I mean, I definitely used it for a big night out. It was a friend's birthday party this past summer and it saved me. But on the flip side, I was just in the Dominican Republic with some best friends this past weekend and she had Z biotics with just a couple. It's a girl's weekend, we're not getting into anything crazy and we use the ZBiotics and it was great. So I would say then my next question, people, I think mostly assume that we feel bad the next day from drinking alcohol because of dehydration. What do you have to say to that?

Speaker C: Yeah. So first, I'll say that to your first point, it's exactly right that the drinking events that happen, whether they're big or small, are, like, for a lot of people, it's an important part of your socializing kind of, like, different experience you have with traveling or going out with your friends or a party or whatever it might be. But the value we see for our customers is really in kind of like being able to maintain the healthy habits and routines the next day. And so when these drinking events occur, you can have ZBiotics as a way to ensure that the next day, the second day of your trip, just as good as the first, right? Or that you make your morning workout or that morning hike, you meet with your friends, whatever that might be. So that is really kind of like the focus. It is definitely around wellness and kind of like living a full life. To your question around dehydration, it's a good one. I think that there's this sort of like pervasive myth around alcohol and dehydration and this belief that alcohol causes dehydration, even though we know in the scientific literature that alcohol doesn't really cause significant dehydration. And I think that this myth is sort of based on the idea that we observe that we tend to pee a lot when we drink alcohol. And it's known that alcohol inhibits a hormone called the antideuretic hormone, which regulates how much you pee. So this belief, though, that that must be the root cause of why you feel bad, but we actually know that's not true. And we have known that for a long time scientifically. I think everybody probably also knows this. If you do the thought experiment, right, other things that cause dehydration don't feel anything, like true, like the way you feel the day after drinking, right? If you exercise or you eat salty foods or you're out in the sun, you do not feel like you feel after you've been drinking, right? Those are very different feelings. They're very different things. And also the cure for dehydration is to drink water. And we all know that when we've had a rough morning after drinking, that having a couple of glasses of water really does nothing to kind of help you feel better. Right? It just takes time. And so these are very different processes, we know that, I think, intuitively, but we'd like to have something and so we sort of are like oh, and so these brands are selling us on electrolytes and rehydration AIDS as a way to kind of leverage this sort of belief that dehydration must be a problem. But we know that's actually not true. And so the question really becomes like, well, what is true? And I think what I think has really been interesting to me as a scientist in digging into this question of what's happening when you drink, is that as with anything, it's actually really complicated. There's a whole bunch of stuff happening, sort of like a symphony of stuff. But if I were to sort of simplify it down, it's kind of a story of two molecules. So you have alcohol itself, so the ethanol, and then you have this metabolic byproduct of alcohol called acid aldehyde. And those two things are both toxic molecules that aren't great for you, and they cause disturbances in your body in various ways. And so the alcohol, basically, it affects the quality of your sleep, it irritates your gut. It sort of has this effect on many different hormones in your body and the way you regulate kind of hunger and satiation. So those midnight cravings after drinking are really due to the alcohol. And then simultaneously, it sort of affects the way your blood sugar and insulin balance are affected the next day as well. And so all those things have sort of some of the negative consequences you might experience. But then I'd say probably even more important in terms of the way you feel the next day is acid aldehydes, this very toxic molecule. It sort of wreaks havoc throughout the body. It's able to kind of cause cell death, which causes systemic inflammation. It's able to bind to receptors in your brain and create sort of like those feelings of nausea and sort of like that toxic death feeling you might get or that malaise that kind of prevents you from your day. And acid aldehyde is an important part of why you feel that way. And so those are like the two main things you're dealing with. There's a few other really interesting things that are happening as well. I'm oversimplifying, but generally speaking, those are the big buckets. And so the idea behind Zibiotics is that we could help with the acid aldehyde at least, right? Like the alcohol is why people are drinking in the first place. And so whatever that might be that you're experiencing from that. So we thought that at least we could get some of these really nasty, kind of some of that misery that you're dealing with the next day if we tackle the acid problem. So that's what we set up.

Speaker B: So ZBiotics essentially breaks down the I'm going to say it wrong, you know what I'm saying? Acidillahaldehyde.

Speaker C: Yeah, acid aldehyde.

Speaker B: Say it again.

Speaker C: Yeah, acid.

Speaker B: Acid aldehyde. Okay. That's not as challenging as I thought.

Speaker C: It was going to be.

Speaker B: Acid aldehyde.

Speaker C: Yeah, it looks more it really does.

Speaker B: So that is what the Z biotics does, and it is essentially a probiotic. Does this work in your gut then?

Speaker C: Yes, exactly. So we started with a live probiotic bacteria. So, like, this bacteria is a safe, edible bacteria that you can eat, and you do already eat this bacteria every day of your life. The species Bacillus subtleus is what's called B subtilis. It's a common bacteria used in the fermentation of food like NATO or Kombucha or chocolate. B subtleus is often kind of involved in that fermentation process. And it's also just kind of like all over your kitchen counter. It's kind of everywhere and you eat it all the time. And so then we took that bacteria and then we engineered it to kind of perform one extra function in addition to all the other things that it's already doing. And so this extra function was the ability to break down acid aldehyde. And so your liver is very good at breaking down acid aldehyde, but unfortunately, by the time it makes its way to the liver, it's already kind of wreak havoc throughout your body, because that acid aldehyde is actually being formed in large part in the gut. And so basically, to kind of step back a little bit, when you drink, most of the alcohol you drink is absorbed into the bloodstream. The alcohol circulates out the body. It has the effects that it has, and then it makes its way to the liver, and it's broken down in two stages. So the alcohol is converted into acid aldehyde, and then the acid aldehyde is converted into acetate. And acetate is essentially vinegar. It's innocuous at this point, the molecule has been detoxified. And so those two steps happen with two different enzymes, and the liver is very good at both steps. So basically, once the alcohol makes its way to the liver, it's almost all being converted entirely to acetate. A small amount of alcohol is actually being broken down directly in the gut before it gets absorbed into the bloodstream. And so it's like, not really a relevant amount in terms of intoxication or the effects of alcohol itself, but even though it's a small amount, this alcohol is almost all being converted to acid aldehyde, that first step of the reaction, but not the second step. So the microbes in your gut are basically breaking down a little bit of alcohol into acid aldehyde, but not subsequently to acetate. And so what happens is that even though it's a small amount of alcohol, basically it's producing acid aldehyde, and that osalide starts to build up in the gut. The gut ends up being the major source of acid aldehyde in the body, even though it's a minor source of alcohol breakdown. And so we know that the scientific literature is very clear that colonic levels of acid aldehydes we look in the gut, and the levels of acid in the gut, they're five to ten times higher than they are in the bloodstream, even though, like I say, this is a very minor source of alcohol metabolism. And so this is actually the major source of acid aldehyde. And then, of course, that acid is highly soluble. It diffuses out of the gut into the bloodstream, circulates throughout the body, kind of wreaks havoc, and then it makes its way to the liver and it's broken down really efficiently. But at that point, it's kind of too late. So we thought, let's move that function of the liver, that one single enzyme that converts acidol die into acetate, and let's just put it in the gut. And so we basically engineered this safe, edible probiotic bacteria to express this very safe common enzyme in the location where it matters right, for the way you feel the next day. And so it's really just kind of like transferring that tray of the liver into the gut, break down that side in the gut before kind of gets absorbed in the bloodstream.

Speaker B: It's so interesting. And then does it essentially, basically just compound the more drinking that you do, the more glasses of, let's say, wine that you have just naturally, the more acid aldehyde that is in your system. And so that's the obvious reason why for most, if you have one or two drinks versus four or five, it can make a difference in how you feel the next day. And I'm also curious, a lot of people, our livers, they go under a lot of stress, right? I mean, especially if you take a lot of supplements, if you have to take prescription medication, if someone's liver is less healthy than someone else's, is that also another factor of how they're breaking it all down?

Speaker C: Absolutely. It's a good point that drinking itself is like putting stress on your liver, like all that alcohol that it has to break down. And I love that you said like supplements. There's a lot of things that we take that really have to be processed by our liver and our kidneys. And the more we kind of put wear on those tires, the more they wear down. And so that's a really great point. And as we get older, I think we all notice that we start to get impact, like less drinks impact us more. And that's in part because the function of our organs, like our liver and kidneys are not as spry as they used to be in our twenty s. And so that's absolutely, that's absolutely true. And the worse kind of your liver, the less effective your liver is, the slower you'll be able to break this stuff down and the longer you're exposed to it, which means the more damage and then that you feel the next day.

Speaker B: Yeah. There's a reason why when you're like 24 you can party all night and when you're 44 can't.

Speaker C: Exactly. Right. Two or three drinks feels like a dumb track hitting you, whereas when you were 20 you wouldn't even notice.

Speaker B: All right, well, let's talk a little bit about then how one would use ZBiotics and how they're going to feel on it and does it affect their level of intoxication? Maybe we can start there. If you have it with your first drink, is it going to have any effect on your evening in that regard?

Speaker C: It shouldn't. Right? Because the whole point is that your body is still in charge of breaking down the alcohol the same way it always did. And then Zebotus really steps in on that second step after the alcohol has been converted into acid aldehyde. And so the acid aldehyde doesn't have any effect on the intoxication itself. And so all the same rules, with or without Zebotics still apply for responsible drinking. Making sure that you know your limits, you pace yourself, you drink in moderation, you make sure you're drinking plenty of water, not drinking on empty stomach. All those things are still really important. And then the idea is that if you do all those things, you're still going to be exposed to some amount of acid aldehyde. And so Zebiotics is there to kind of help with that piece of the puzzle. So we've kind of like invented something to deal with, something with a part of the problem that currently nothing existed to kind of deal with, even though you had these other kind of best practices. So yeah, you should feel the same in terms of the impact of the alcohol. But then of course, the next day you'll ideally feel better.

Speaker B: But now, should one expect us to be like a superhuman feeling better? Like the next day, am I going to wake up and want to go run a marathon or am I just going to not feel like I'm dying?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, to some extent, I hate to give sort of a science answer here, but it depends on the person and their biology as to how you feel the next day. What we can definitely say is that you will feel better. And for some people, indeed, we literally have testimonials where people go. I've had people send me screenshots of the Strava where they've run like 7 miles the next morning after going out in Nashville with their friends or whatever. And so it kind of depends on who you are and how alcohol affects you because it's going to be kind of different for everybody. That being said, you'll definitely feel better. The whole point of the product is to essentially reduce the friction on you getting on with the important, natural, healthy parts of your day, like exercising or meeting up with friends or whatever it might be. That is the benefit of the product. And you should feel that way. That being said, are you going to wake up and definitively feel nothing? Probably unrealistic. As I say, the next day effects of drinking are very complicated. There's a lot of facets going around that your body's dealing with our product helps you with a really important part of that. And so the other things that you're dealing with related to alcohol itself, like for instance, I think one of the important ones is poor sleep. So you may wake up the next day and feel groggy even if you don't kind of feel all the rest of that misery, which could impact kind of like how motivated you are to get things done. And so good news is, like a good breakfast, some coffee can really address some of that. But I also myself personally when I'm drinking, in addition to taking z biotics. As I say, I try and maintain all the other healthy habits I have, and one of the most important ones is making sure I get plenty of sleep and trying to go to bed sober. So stopping drinking earlier in the night so that my body has time to process that alcohol so that when I go to bed, there isn't alcohol in my brain affecting because the alcohol binding receptors in the brain are just kind of part of what affects the quality of your sleep. So trying to mitigate that symptom using other kind of behaviors and practices is really yeah.

Speaker B: As somebody that has used the product multiple times, it is interesting. I have had different experiences the next day. The underlying current is that I always feel certainly better than I would have had I not taken it. And there's been a couple of times where I remember like one or two days I was groggy. But you're right, I didn't sleep very well. And I can go to bed with having nothing to drink, having had the best wellness day exercised and still have a bad night's sleep. It is interesting how it is unique to someone's biology and it can affect one different ways. I mean, a friend, we have a mutual friend, and he is like the Bionic Man and he takes very good care of himself and he uses Ebiotics, and I think he probably is one of those guys that's getting up and running a marathon the next day.

Speaker C: Yeah, totally.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Yeah. There's no doubt about it that alcohol definitely affects the quality of your sleep. It's definitely not going to help. And so I think an important part is just being aware of all the things that are kind of like, happening. And I think that taking steps to mitigate each of those together in a holistic sense. And to your point, everybody's biology is different. And our goal here is to work with your biology and that includes kind of your own decision making as opposed to sort of like kind of giving you gal gel free card that mitigates everything because that's just not right.

Speaker B: Of course. Okay, well, I want our guests to know where they can find Zibiotics. But before you say that, I just want you to know you guys are everywhere because last night, one of Amy's friends unfortunately, Amy's not here with us today. She couldn't be with us today, but just randomly texted her a photo of her holding her Zbiotic saying, have you heard of this? Literally. Yeah. I could show it to you. I'll show you the photo and the timestamp of the date. It's wild. So you are everywhere. So tell us, where can our listeners find you?

Speaker C: That is so cool. I'm glad to hear that. Best place to find us is just on our website, zbiotics.com. And yeah, we have a lot of information there about the product, but also a lot of things we're talking about here, like best practices around drinking without the product and how alcohol affects your body, and a lot of stuff about the microbiome. We don't have time to get into it now, but my PhD in microbiology, I'm really passionate about disseminating information about just kind of understanding your gut environment and the microbes that live there. And I think there's a lot of really cool, kind of honest things that we can talk about in that space as well. So we try and address some of that.

Speaker B: Yeah, your website is genius. It has a lot of great information and for those that like to dig into the science of it all. And you know what? We should have you back to talk about the microbiome because it is fascinating. So I know that you would love to have a conversation with you as well. All right, so before I let you go, let's get into our wrap session because I'm super curious what your answers are going to be to this. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Speaker C: Okay, so my favorite wellness hack is as you can tell, I don't probably have a ton of beauty hacks, but my favorite wellness hack is frozen cauliflower in my smoothie. So there was this really cool, basically, study that came out in 2021. It was this huge metaanalysis of 2 million people over the course of 30 years, and they followed their health and their diet and all these things. They analyzed basically, in this case, specifically, what's the optimal amount of fruit and veg that you should be eating every day. And it was that at least two servings of fruit and three servings of vegetables a day was like the optimal amount. Anything above that didn't hurt, but it sort of didn't provide an increased benefit. And so, okay, that feels like doable generally, right? Especially two fruit. I think I can do that. But three veg really takes a concerted effort, right. That means you're having a serving of vegetables with every meal and kind of hard to work vegetable into an easy I'm eating a bowl of cereal a lot of times. So what I do now is basically, if I add, like, three quarters of a cup of frozen cauliflower to my smoothie in the morning, you blend it up, and basically, it's a very neutral flavor, and it adds, like, a nice texture. Gives, like, a sort of a creamy, smoothie texture to it, but you don't really taste it. And so it's sort of like this free veg that you get right off the bat out of the gate for the day. I've already gotten one serving of vegetables.

Speaker B: That's a good one. It's hidden in there. That would also be a really good way to get vegetables into my children, I feel like.

Speaker C: Yes, kids also don't detect.

Speaker B: Nice. That's a great one. Okay, so this next one is like, maybe a little bit more for the ladies that we have interviewing on the show, but I'm still curious. It's your five minute flow. You just got in the shower and you're drying off and uber's pinged you. They're five minutes away. What are you doing to get out the door on time? I have a feeling this is probably like, for most men, always the same, but what do you got?

Speaker C: Yeah, five minutes is ample. Basically, speed stick deodorant. That's my scent. And then a little bit of the matte hair cream to kind of keep the hair out of my face, and I'm pretty much good to go.

Speaker B: I tell you what I know.

Speaker C: It's not fair. It's not fair. I agree.

Speaker B: All right. And the last one is, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Speaker C: I think the most important thing that I do every day for myself is I always make sure to end my day getting to read a book or listen to a book, one of the two. And even if it's like, I'm really tired, it's only, like, a few pages, I find that that's a really important way for me to kind of unwind, be quiet and kind of, like, allow my imagination to go a little bit. I spend a lot of time talking to people in a lot of meetings and things like that. And to be clear, these are books are fun books, not like self improvement or anything like that. These are like fantasy or comedy or mystery. Like things that just allow me to kind of decompress a little bit. So I think it's an important part.

Speaker B: All right, well, Zach, thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it's. Great to connect. We've been trying to connect for a long time, and we are, like, avid fans of ZBiotics, and I know a lot of people are, so I'm sure our listeners are going to be super psyched to learn about it today. So thank you.

Speaker C: Well, thank you for having me. This is super fun.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to.

Speaker B: Bye.

Episode 128 - Product Junkies: October - Snack Edition (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 128 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Speaker A: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker B: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

Speaker C: Hello, Nirvana Sisters family. We are recording today, but Katie and I are definitely in a Daoic mood. With everything going on in Israel, we're just sending our prayers to the families there. What is happening is truly gruesome and it's really even hard to talk about without breaking up. So we just wanted to acknowledge that we see you, we stand with you, we pray with you, and we just hope something is resolved.

Speaker B: We hope it ends soon.

Speaker C: Yeah. That being said, Katie and I did have plans to record this week, and we are going to record a product junkies episode. It does feel silly to talk about sort of these light topics, but it is a good distraction for us because we had mentioned on our Instagram, but it's just been mentally challenging to do anything all week. So it's actually quite a good distraction to see Katie and just to talk about something that is not what else is happening, because I think we've all been consumed with the news and social media. So, with that being said, we are going to get into our October product junkies episode, and this time it is our Snack edition because we heard from some of you. You wanted to hear about, like, nutrition, snacks, food, things like that. So Katie and I have a little bit of a roundup of some things we've been loving lately. I will let Katie all right, well.

Speaker B: I am going to kick off our Snack edition with the number one thing that is almost always in my handbag when I am going to work. When I leave for the city, there's two things, and this is the first. And I'm obsessed. It's Trader Joe's. Just a handful of olives, pitted, salted manzanilla olive packs. Have you seen these?

Speaker C: Yum. No.

Speaker B: They're these little green packs that you can just peel off the top. And inside are all of these super salty yummy olives. And it's so good because it's very healthy fat. It's satiating. It can very much like if I'm in between appointments and I'm hungry, it can just tie me over and they're mean I'm obsessed. I buy loads of them when I go to Trader Joe's. And since I was traveling this past weekend, I don't have any at home right now, so I need to make a stop. But that is like my new fave. I love olives.

Speaker C: Oh, I love that. I love that.

Speaker B: It's like me too.

Speaker C: And I love that it's in travel packs because I've had some of those packs before, but they're like, bigger, so that's nice that they have travel packs.

Speaker B: It's literally, like, maybe three inches by two and a half inches. The pack. It's very small. You can toss it in your bag.

Speaker C: That's perfect. So you just throw it in. You just definitely want to have a.

Speaker B: Napkin with you when you're eating them. That's the only thing. A little salty, and I guess it's brine or like a little bit of oil on them or something, but it's a good one. What about you?

Speaker C: Okay, so I have a random I guess it's kind of a condiment. And Katie knows I'm obsessed with this because she had it recently at my house, but I literally can't stop eating it. I have severe issues. It's called chili crunch. And the brand I have I forget what the brand name is, but it's at Whole Foods. There's, like, a few at Whole Foods. And the one I have, I'll put it in our show notes, and I'll link to it whatever the brand is. But it's so, like, I literally put it on everything. It's almost like a chili oil with, like, red I don't know, some kind of peppers that make it yummy and spicy, but not too spicy. And so I put it on everything now, like, I've mixed it with eggs. I've mixed it with pasta sauce. I put it on everything. But I was saying to my husband the other day, I was like, I have to stop using it all the time because then I'm going to get sick of it, but I can't stop putting it on everything. Oh, you know what I did yesterday? I mixed it in. I had, like, a tuna like, tuna fish, and I just mixed it in the tuna fish. I sometimes have, like, salmon and mix it in. It goes with everything. It goes with sweet. It goes with everything. Anyway. Big fan of the chili crunch. I got mine at Whole Foods. Again, I'll post the brand, but I heard there is one at Trader Joe's that is also very good, but it's such a good way to top off a bland.

Speaker B: I've had the Trader Joe's one, and I've had the one at your house. And as the Gen Z would say, yours is elite. Whatever that brand is, is elite. So we need to add the brand to the show notes for it's really, really good. I mean, the Trader Joe's one, I'll.

Speaker C: Look it up as you tell me.

Speaker B: Yours is, like, next level. I'm obsessed with it too.

Speaker C: Okay. So I actually have it in my notes here. It says it's just called chili crunch. All natural, crunchy condiment. The brand is Chilicrunch.com, I guess because it says you can go to go for recipes, go to Chilicrunch.com. But I think the brand is just chili crunch. I don't know, but I'll link it. It's red and yellow, and it's yummy. It's also gluten free.

Speaker B: I mean, if the brand if all they do is make Chili Crunch, then it's got to be good.

Speaker C: Exactly. Here's what it says on the label just to give a little bit of description. Crunchy, smoky, and infused with just the right amount of heat, chili Crunch is made in small batches from a savory blend of toasted chilies, garlic, onion, and spices. The perfect partner for steak, chicken, fish, eggs, and roasted veggies. Also great on everything from pizza and pasta to burgers and tacos. Facts, facts.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: All right. My next one is the other thing you're always going to find in my handbag, and this is lately, like my favorite brand. It is the new primal turkey jerky. I pretty much always have some kind of turkey jerky. Trader Joe's sells chomps. So does Whole Foods. There's that Vermont brand that I see at your house a lot, but the new Primal, it's lightly peppered turkey stick, zero sugar, 45 calories, 7 grams of protein, raised without added hormones and antibiotics, et cetera. But yeah, it's just a good one. Where did you I get these at Whole Foods. You can get them on Amazon.

Speaker C: And are the sticks like no, they're.

Speaker B: The bigger ones, which is good because I feel like the mini size is never enough. I like that you can see me walking down the city streets eating jerky like a random person at any given time of day.

Speaker A: Jerky and olives.

Speaker B: It's good stuff, though. What's your next one?

Speaker C: My next one, which you can also find in my bag, are and you saw them at my house, bienna chickpea snacks. I had recently been speaking with a nutritionist just to help me with eating and stomach issues and whatever, and she was like, a really good snack is just to have chickpeas at hand all the time because they have fiber, they have protein, and they're filling. So anyway, I found this brand, Vienna, or I knew the brand from other things that they make, but they sell them at Whole Foods and probably other, you know, just crunchy roasted chickpea snacks. And they have 6 grams protein, 6 grams fiber, and they have tons of different flavors, so I like all of them. But Rock and Ranch is my favorite. They also have barbecue. They have everything. They have habanero. I've tried them all. They're all good. The other little hack is they have honey roasted, and the honey roasted ones are sweet. So when I'm craving something sweet, it kind of does the trick because it has, like, sugar on the outside, so they're yummy. So anyway, big fan of the snacks. They are also grain free, vegan, gluten free.

Speaker B: You know who loves another pea snacks is Reese Chandler, my youngest daughter. She is obsessed. She either does the honey roasted, the sea salt, or the everything. She loves them all. Yeah.

Speaker C: So good.

Speaker B: And so good.

Speaker C: So another one good.

Speaker B: Really good bag. Okay, this is one of my latest obsessions, and I think it's become one of your latest obsessions as well. And it's an old fave, but a twist on an old fave. The gimme roasted seaweed snacks, which I know you love them, right? The sea salt, the regular ones are bomb, but the newest one that I'm obsessed with is I don't know how new it is, but it's new for me. The white cheddar flavor, and it's non dairy white cheddar, and it tastes so much like cheddar. It's insane. It's so good.

Speaker C: Yes. You got me into them.

Speaker B: I felt in the I'm obsessed with them. And you know what? They're not going to fill you up. They're not like a go to if you're really hungry. But if you want, like, a salty snacky bite, and especially if you want a salty snacky bite that's, like, almost practically feels, like calorie free, they're just really light. Like, one whole package is 30 calories, 2 grams of fat, two carbs, 1 gram of fiber, 1 gram of protein. So they're just a super light, good for a craving kind of snack. If you don't want to eat something that is calorie dense but you need a good salty bite, they're a go to.

Speaker C: Yeah, agreed. Love it. Okay, so my next one is a really good one too, and I've been having this every morning for breakfast is the Siggy's plant based coconut I always wanted to find because I'm supposed to not be eating dairy. So I've always been trying to find a really good non dairy yogurt, which I've had a really hard time finding. I feel like there's a brand that we've tried in the past. I can't remember the name of it that it's like okay, it's like an almond milk one, but it doesn't taste that good. But this one that I was recommended, sorry. Another thing about the non dairy yogurts is they don't really have a lot of protein, so they're, like, made from coconut milk, but they have, like, 1 gram of protein. I'm like, why am I eating this? It just feels like nothing. So anyway, the Siggy's one that I've been doing recently is called the one that I like, but there's a few different flavors. Is just the sweet and plain and sorry, sweet dogs are going crazy.

Speaker B: Cayet is father of the bride.

Speaker C: No? I don't know. Cayet is, like, isn't that quiet in Spanish? I always say to them, okay, so Siggy's plant based coconut I can't talk. What's wrong with me? Okay, Siggy's plant based coconut blend. I get the sweet and plain. Like I said, I get the big I don't know how many ounces it is. 24 ounce. One, because I use it every morning, and I take, like, a scoop, and it has 11 grams of protein and 4 grams of sugar. So really low in sugar, high in protein for a plant based yogurt. And I just do, like, a scoop, and I mix it with, like, berries and seeds, and it's, like, so filling. It's so yummy. It has, like, a really good texture. It's nice and smooth and thick. Which is another thing I find with some of the non dairy yogurts that are not thick. So I've been really enjoying that. And what I also do with it is when I make a smoothie in the afternoon, I'll throw like a scoop or two in to thicken it up. So anyway, huge fan of the cigarette.

Speaker B: You know what is in that? Because I saw it at the market. It has pea protein, which is what gives it the high protein content, at least the one I saw. Yeah.

Speaker C: Oh, is that what it is? Let me see what it says. It says cultured coconut milk.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Pea protein, coconut oil, macadamia nut, butter, cane sugar, tapioca flour, fruit, pectin, and natural flavor. Yeah. All right.

Speaker B: Well, speaking of being, like, off dairy, you know me, I'm always down to find a great dairy replacement, and I have always pre my dairy issues. I loved creamy salad dressings, like Ranch and Caesar and everything, and I've never, ever found a good non dairy replica until now. So the brand Gotham Greens, I don't know if you've seen they're at Whole Foods, and they have the first yeah, the first I saw of it was they sell greens like, they sell lettuces and things like that.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's right.

Speaker B: Exactly. So now they're doing salad dressings, and their vegan Caesar and vegan Ranch is so spot on. It's insane. It's so good, especially the Caesar. I have probably been eating grilled chicken Caesar salads, like three or four days a week for the last two months. Because I'm obsessed with this.

Speaker C: I have to try what are the ingredients?

Speaker B: Like, what's in it? Well, yeah.

Speaker C: Or is it high in fat? Or I always like to look even on the non dairy, does it have protein? Is it high in fat, high in sugar stuff?

Speaker B: I'll Google that really quickly, but I can tell you what's in it. What's in it is sunflower oil, filtered water, white vinegar, natural flavor, sea salt, seasonings, like garlic powder, chickpea protein, and then a lot of other things are seasonings. So usually these dairy free replacements, a lot of times are tofu or like soy. And that was a great thing about this, is that it doesn't have anything like that. Let me see if I can find the nutrition content really quickly. So it's definitely fat based, which doesn't surprise me because it's very creamy and rich. So it's 16 grams of fat for a serving, but that's not abnormal for a salad dressing, for a Caesar salad dressing, do you know what I mean?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: I wouldn't call them like a diet food or anything like that, but for somebody that can't have dairy, I'm obsessed.

Speaker C: I have to try it. It sounds so good because it is hard to find a good dressing.

Speaker B: I mean, it has good it's one carb. It doesn't have any protein, but that's to be expected as well. But I feel like it's healthy fats.

Speaker C: Yeah, no, that's what I was going to say. It's totally different. Okay, so my last recommendation is a great this is exciting, a fiber powder, but I actually, over the years, have tried many different pills. Fiber, I can never find anything that I stick to or that works for me. And this one brand, again, that this nutritionist that I've been speaking to recommended is called Sun Fiber. I know the brand bite on Amazon. You know it? It's by a company called Tomorrow's Nutrition. And it's so good because there's no grit. There's no it's, like, just dissolves. And I literally just put in my coffee every morning, so I don't even think about it, which is great because I don't never like the ones where you have to do it in water. I'm taking so many supplements now, I'm like, I can't add another supplement. And this has been really great and helpful, and it has 6 grams of fiber in every scoop. It's really stomach friendly. So it was recommended because I'll read what it says on the bottle, like, sensitive, stomach friendly, comfortable, digestion without gas, bloating, and discomfort. And it's low FODMAP certified and 100% gluten free. So I've been trying to kind of help my gut over the last couple of months, and this is one of the things amongst a few other things that have been helping me. So if anybody is in the market for a good fiber, I'm really a.

Speaker B: Fan of no, I can attest to that one. I've had me with my gut issues as well in the past, and I did Sunfiber for a little while. And Sun Fiber is the actual type of fiber. And then the brand that you said, is that the one that your nutritionist suggested? Is it a particularly good brand?

Speaker C: I think the brand is called Tomorrow's Nutrition, and the actual product is Sun Fiber. Sun Fiber. It says invisible fiber visible benefits. That's what it says on it. But we'll link good, but it's a good one. It's like $25 for 7.5oz. It's not bad. And it's been working for me. It's just, like, really dissolved. Like, you don't even taste it. So unflavored, all that. So highly recommend.

Speaker B: All right, well, I love it. Well, that was your October product junkies, folks, with your snacks. Healthy, yummy, delicious snacks. And I feel like we kind of gave a good variety there. We ran the gamut a little bit, so hope you enjoy.

Speaker C: Yeah. So let us know what you thought of this episode. A little bit different for us. I know we're usually doing beauty and skin, and snacks are something that I feel like or snacks and different food items are something that I think we can all relate to and are always finding new things. So we'll continue to do this if you guys don't like it. And I do feel better having a little bit of a distraction to my day. So hope you all are doing well. And thank you for listening to Nirvana Sisters. Talk to you next time. Bye bye.

Speaker A: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would it, please share it and tag us.

Speaker C: Tune in next week for a fresh.

Speaker A: New episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness, so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 118 - How To Balance Your Hormones? Find Out From Holistic Hormone Expert Marisa Faye - Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 118.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Speaker 2 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Speaker 2 0:27

you had mentioned earlier? Well, I guess I had mentioned earlier my cholesterol and but you had mentioned that cholesterol and hormones are related. And I would love to talk about that a little bit.

Speaker 3 0:37

Yeah, so a lot of times, your body will, first of all cholesterol, the vast majority of it your body makes, it's another one of those things very critical. You need it for healthy cell walls, you would die without it. So cholesterol is so important, your body makes most of it very little of it, you actually get from food. So the whole idea of donate eggs, because of the cholesterol police, anybody who says that to ask them where they learned that and if they've studied 1000s of hours of nutrition, because they probably haven't. So this is really important to know, what you're eating impacts your cholesterol if what you're eating is very inflammatory, right. So if you're eating a lot of those highly palatable foods, a lot of super processed foods right, then that's important. If you're exposed to a lot of toxic chemicals, you know, a lot of my clients who, for example, work in like a hair salon. That's a lot of chemical exposure they have right, so that could cause dysfunction there. But in general, if you have a relatively healthy diet, and frankly, even if you're just a woman who is aging, because this can be part of the process, it's very likely cholesterol is going to go up. And in fact, it's protective to do so in women especially. But the threshold for high cholesterol and functional medicine is much much higher than I think it is in western medicine and Western medicine, you can go back and look that guideline has changed over time based on them wanting to prescribe not based on any new data, not based on any high quality studies, nothing like that it's completely because of a desire to want to sell a medication. And not only that, but cholesterol is absolutely critical as we age and protective as we age because it is at the top of the steroid hormone pathway. So what I mean by that is you have to have enough cholesterol in order to make a whole bunch of other hormones. So any hormone you think of as like a female hormone, you need it for that any hormone you think of as a stress hormone, you need it for that. And there are plenty of other hormones too, that really need that presence and thrive from that. So if you don't make enough cholesterol, all these other things downstream are going to be lower potentially, or the body's going to do funky things like it's going to shovel it down one pathway but not the other. So it's going to make potentially more testosterone and not enough cortisol right or something like that. It's going to start to do wonky things. So when a woman has higher cholesterol, we have to first look downstream and see, well, what's going on with all these other hormones, is there potentially an issue there and perhaps a feedback loop where the body is saying, we're not making enough thyroid, like Knock Knock, knock, we need more. So let's make more cholesterol, right. So that can often be something I see actually, in women as they age, where thyroid is looking like it's being a little bit suppressed. I see cholesterol sometimes goes up. And that's I think part of what's happening. But cholesterol really gets demonized and villainized. And, in particular, when we look at women, the vast majority of women, based on the studies we've seen and what we know statins do, do not benefit from taking statins, the vast majority. And that is not medical advice, you have to make anybody listening, you have to make the choice that is right for your body. But I would just really encourage you to truly go on PubMed, look at the literature or talk to somebody like me who's looked at that literature have the conversations. So you can make a more informed choice to know if you're somebody who truly can benefit. Or if you're somebody who has a downstream hormone issue or a liver issue, because that's a big part of it because of where cholesterol is made and how it's used. And those are the things that need to be addressed. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 4:05

Do you have somebody because I have a lot.

Amy 4:08

Yeah, you go, and then I have something I want to circle back on from earlier. Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 2 4:12

So what you're saying is that if you do have like a hormonal imbalance that could affect your cholesterol and cause it to go higher than it needs to be. And so instead of a doctor checking your hormones, they just hand you a statin, it's not necessarily going to fix the problem. Yes.

Speaker 3 4:28

Correct. Okay. And not only is it not going to fix the problem, there are a lot of potentially negative side effects if you stay on it long.

Speaker 2 4:34

Yes, that sounds like me, like everything I've just realized. So isn't that funny? And I just was reading about a study and this is just for the listener regarding statins. It was a study that showed like they're very effective for people that are already deep into heart disease like versus preventative. The preventative this study showed that if you took a statin preventatively it added four days to your life for days. That's it like, it's insane. Like, what's, what's the point? So anyway, I digress. I just wanted to get that out there. Amy, what were you? Okay?

Speaker 3 5:09

There's cool studies too, that actually look at women and show it actually takes time off your life potential. So, and this is the whole thing where women and I mean, female, right? female sex physiology, very different than male, when it comes to this.

Amy 5:25

Interesting. Okay, so we could go on and like, we'll probably need you back for part two, because we have so many other things. But can we just talk to our listeners and give them some simple tips for hormonal balance that they can do right away? Like, obviously, there's the button all the other stuff we talked about, but like, what some simple things? Yes.

Speaker 3 5:42

Okay. So first and foremost, protein, protein, and more protein. So protein is your friend and kind of how I've touched on a few times in small ways, but muscle right, muscle is the most beneficial thing for you to nourish, and try to grow within your body. So high quality protein, and at least having three really high quality meals every day with at least 30 grams of animal based protein. And yes, I am that specific that it's animal based. Part of that is because

Amy 6:14

so not a shake with protein, we mean, yes, meat chicken, yes,

Speaker 3 6:18

this, you know, you could do a shape that has a protein that's like I use like a grass fed beef isolate. But something that is a complete protein. By the way, collagen is not a complete protein, so it doesn't count towards that goal. But you could get a really high quality, truly animal derived protein powder, and that could be okay for somebody. But it may not be as satisfying and satiating, but at least 30 grams of an animal based protein breakfast, lunch and dinner. Okay, really important, it's going to help with insulin regulation that's going to help with hormone production is going to help with your appetite it's going to help with so so many things, sleep potentially, like just so many things. So really important that you're getting enough protein in throughout the day. So that's key, first and foremost. Second of all, you need to be eating within an hour of waking up. This whole idea of depriving yourself of food, and it's good. If you wake up and you're not hungry is a lie. A healthy body wakes up and is hungry within about an hour of waking that is a healthy metabolic response. And anytime we're talking about metabolic response, we're talking about healthy hormones. So that's really key. We want to be eating that first high protein meal within an hour of waking up, which means coffee, caffeine, even your matcha happens after breakfast not before

Speaker 2 7:36

is I've been hearing that more often. And that's because of like cortisol spikes and things like that. Is that part of that as well?

Speaker 3 7:42

It can it can be but it's also because it can dis regulate blood sugar. And it also can be used as a tool for appetite suppressant, right? So a lot of women will use it so that they don't have to eat. And when you don't feel your body when it really needs it after it's done a lot of hard work restoring overnight, right? When you deny it, that it's not a good thing.

Amy 8:05

Yeah, I also heard that just drinking and I'm so guilty of it. But drinking coffee on an empty stomach just isn't good for your gut, right acids and things like that

Speaker 3 8:15

very acidic, right? And a lot of women as they age start to do more and more with reflux. And most instances of reflux are actually low stomach acid, not high stomach acid. And so putting coffee into an environment like that is rough. That is rough. Yeah.

Amy 8:32

Yeah, I'm very guilty of this. I'm very guilty of not eating breakfast, because I am truly not hungry in the morning because I'm not a morning person. But I have to really force myself, which was actually it's funny when I was talking about my vacation on vacation. I had breakfast every morning. I mean, I don't know if I felt any different. But I was eating like a proper breakfast every morning, which is probably better. But I just Yeah, I got to work on that. Yeah, well, better

Speaker 3 8:57

body to to do that. So if you're somebody who's coming from like, where you are, Amy, you know, you don't have to jump right to that 30 grams of protein for breakfast, you could do something smaller, right. So a lot of clients. And I also teach this to the women in my course, like you could do a small protein rich snack. So you could do, you know, three quarters of a cup of Greek yogurt with some berries within an hour of waking, right. And the ultimate goal is that over time through doing that you start teaching your body because our body is really smart and it wants to be on that rhythm. It actually wants to be on a rhythm with the sun if we're getting very technical. So when you are waking up, you're exposing yourself to sunlight, your body is going to start to know Oh, okay, I'm going to be hungry here soon and I'm gonna get fuel soon. I'm gonna get nutrients soon. And I like that. And so you're gonna start to actually prime that appetite and make that a part of your regular life.

Amy 9:48

Yeah, I think for me, too. I get lazy and I don't want to make anything so like what's your point? Like? I have hard boiled eggs all the time. So like I could just eat that. I was just trying to find things that I can grab because I don't necessarily feel like spending the time to make anything. But um, yeah, that's a very good thing to remember. And I'm actually not I'm thinking about it. I was eating like, a nice proper breakfast lunch dinner. And I didn't find myself like hungry or craving any like snacks in between, because I was probably very satiated. So it's almost like I gotta force myself to eat even though I don't feel hungry.

Speaker 3 10:22

Yeah, definitely two more tips that are really good. One is yes, close your vegetables, cook them, stop it. Like, we're not robbing it like. So one of the most amazing things you can do is start to look at food and think about like, is this nourishing for my body. And when you think of the word nourishing, I want you to think of warming since warming my body, because as we age, and this is borrowed from Chinese medicine, but as we age our body cools off. But we also see that actually, when we monitor our body temperature, we can sometimes see that happen over time. But if you're having slower digestion, right, if you're having hormone dysfunction, and you're a woman, you're likely having things slow down, right, not get faster. So when we have things slowing down, we want to keep it warm. We want to keep it supple, we want to keep it moving, right? You're not going to do that by throwing cold things in your body all day long. So really, truly, first of all, ditch the freakin fiber powders like that is not most people's problem for the record. And a cup to two cups of cooked vegetables, lunch and dinner. could change your world.

Speaker 2 11:32

Interesting. I love cooked vegetables. But yeah, it's but you have to like, you got to do it. You got to take the time to cook them and do it

Amy 11:39

right. Or you could do like a like a chicken broth. What's it called? Like a chicken broth? Because that has protein right. And it's warming bone broth.

Unknown Speaker 11:48

You couldn't you know, I mean bone broth. Sorry.

Speaker 3 11:51

To have frozen vegetables, like no shame in my game. Get the frozen vegetables like those are pre cooked. Throw me to pan they'll heat up in two minutes. You're done. Yeah,

Amy 11:59

totally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, what's the next one's a really good reminder. Okay,

Speaker 3 12:04

the next one is you've got to get serious about your toxin exposure. And so many of us are trying to be really mindful of, for example, drinking enough water. And we're not paying enough attention to what's in our water, right. Or we're really mindful about getting into skincare and keeping our skin really nourished. But we're not paying attention to what's in our skincare. So it's time to really prioritize the things that I like to say the things our bodies is going to absorb the most stuff that are either going into your body or staying on your body for a long time, are really the things you want to prioritize first replacing if it feels daunting to do this. And I really, really recommend, first of all, bread is not enough your fridge filters, not enough. It's not enough, a whole house filter in many cases is not enough, you need a much higher quality, quality water, really important. And you also need better skincare products, friends. And there are easy ways to do that. So ew G the Environmental Working Group, they have a fantastic app or website called skin deep. There's also an app called Think dirty. And there are a number of other apps. So you can play with the ones and find the ones you like. And you can go through everything you have and use when it comes to personal care and see where it rates and try to find upgrades. And then when it comes to water filters, there are a couple that I really liked. But it depends a little bit on your water quality. So check your water quality. So Ew, g.org/tap water, you can check and see what is in your water personally. And then you can choose a filter that's going to work the best for you. For example, there's fluoride in my water. So I want to filter that out because fluoride is a neurotoxin, and damaging to our thyroid and I have history of a thyroid issue. So I filter out fluoride and that was really important for me. But I have clients who live places where they don't add fluoride to the water so they wouldn't need something that had that extra capability.

Amy 13:55

A quick mention I wanted to say two things. We did an episode a couple months ago with a company called Million marker that does all of this measurement arounds endocrine disruptors in the house, so it's a really interesting episode to get tips around how to do this in simple ways around your house, what you're putting on etc. And I also use an app called yaka y UK, which is similar to think dirty, which is also really eye opening. And that's made me make better choices too. So good thing to like, go back to that episode and listen, and yeah, it's really important. Those three tips are really helpful,

Speaker 3 14:30

too, by the way that this going through your toxin exposure is important is because of Xeno estrogens. So these are synthetic hormone like substances that are in all of these different kinds of toxins that are in all these kinds of products and in our environment. And literally in your body. Your body will try to plug it into the same place that it's going to plug estrogen in so then you have a toxic substance being plugged in there. And that is why they're so problematic. And this is also very critical to anybody dealing with any kind of hormone issue and it's why it's it's a whole module in my DIY course because it's so darn important like you really, you can't avoid it.

Speaker 2 15:06

Speaking of your DIY course, I want our listeners to know exactly how they can find you. So, we found you on Instagram. What's your Instagram handle? Reminds me again. Yes. So

Speaker 3 15:17

I'm at Marissa Fay wellness. So one s Mar Isa, and then fe, fe y e wellness, and I'm on Tiktok and instagram with that username

Speaker 2 15:26

and your you teach a course or you have a course available and you also work, one to one with clients as well, correct?

Speaker 3 15:34

I do yeah, I do both. So if you want to check out the course, you can go to balanced hormone blueprint.com. And if you want to learn a little bit more about me and potentially working one on one with me, you can go to Marissa feiyr.com. And also just something special for anybody listening, I have a free training, it is over an hour long. So this is like jam packed. And you can get lots of info and tips from here. But I have a free training all about three secrets to balanced hormones. And you can pick that up at bit.ly/hormone training. And because people have trouble with this, I'm just going to spell out the bit.ly. It's B I T period, l y slash and then hormone training.

Amy 16:14

That's great. Is that all of your website as well?

Speaker 3 16:16

It's actually I'm web redesigning my website, which has been a month long. Yeah, so it's it will be there. It is not okay.

Amy 16:25

But good to have the direct link. Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:28

Yeah, we know how we know all about building out that website takes time. So

Amy 16:33

super quickly before before you leave us let's do a quick wrap session because I'm sure our listeners are dying to know, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack.

Speaker 3 16:42

I mean, my favorite hack is literally what you do on the inside takes care of the outside. So it really is hydration with good water and minerals. You got to add nutrients there and these balanced meals that are really the cornerstone of what I do throughout the day. And then on top of that, really I'm a huge fan of natural kind of medicinal skincare. So I lately have been using bee products on my face. And I'm obsessed with it. I feel like it's moisturizing and glowy and just so good.

Speaker 2 17:15

What is this B product is that the brand? The brand is the product? No,

Speaker 3 17:18

it's not actually what I'm using right now is a jar I got in Greece, but I do use oh my god, what is the brand beekeepers natural so I do use a number of their products but I really like to use like royal jelly. Things that have like BEE POLLEN groundup and in them as long as you don't have an allergy to bees or pollen. Even a little bit of me so a little bit of honey with some good olive oil. That's great facemask like, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 17:48

Okay. All right, this next one we call it our five minute flow you just got out of the shower and dried off an Uber has pinged you they're five minutes away. What are you going to do to like quickly get it together, get you know, your look on and get out the door and in that Uber on time?

Speaker 3 18:03

I mean, moisturize always right, it was one of those things I just mentioned for sure. And then I love a I love a beauty knockoff hack. Like I love a good product that's less expensive and not more toxic. And so I love like tart has a lot of products I love even elf has a number of lower toxin products. So I'm gonna like put some foundation on, put some mascara on, put some lip gloss on and a little bronzer and get out the door. So that's kind of my, my thing that I focus on.

Amy 18:37

And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Unknown Speaker 18:39

Oh, I try. I don't know if I do it.

Amy 18:44

Well, maybe your water drinking. I mean,

Speaker 3 18:47

no, honestly, I feel like my morning sets me up for my day. So I really am a fan of wake up and get outside. You don't have to walk by the way. Literally, I sit outside. And oftentimes I'll listen to meditation or calm music, although sometimes I don't sometimes I'm on my phone, right, which nobody's admitting, but it's true. So I get though, almost as soon as I wake up, I do a meditation in the morning and I do walk in the morning and I think that is really big to set me up for a day where like, I'm ready and focused and I can be at peace.

Speaker 2 19:22

Yeah, that sounds lovely. Alright, well, Marissa, thank you so much for being with us today. This was like a very eye opening episode. Yes, I know. I love it. This might end up being a two parter. Thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it. Well,

Unknown Speaker 19:35

thanks for having me.

Amy 19:38

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 117 - How To Balance Your Hormones? Find Out With Tips From Holistic Hormone Expert Marisa Faye - Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 117, Are Your Hormones Balanced? Find Out With Tips From Holistic Hormone Expert Marisa Faye - Part 1

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome to the show. Nirvana Sisters family. We are back, and today we are sitting down with Marissa Faye. Marissa is a woman's hormone and gut health expert. She specializes in hormonal issues like PCOS, Hypothyroidism, weight loss, resistance, IBS, endometriosis, and a lot more. She's the founder of a robust online nutrition and wellness practice supporting women all over the world through her DIY, gut and hormone healing course, the Balanced Hormone Blueprint. Marissa holds a master's degree in public health board certification in holistic, nutrition, certification in functional nutrition therapy, certification in functional lab testing and interpretation, certification in hypnotherapy, which I want to ask about that. That's so interesting. And she's also certified in yoga and meditation. So Marissa is definitely a wellness guru.

[01:21] Marisa Faye: Ladies, thank you.

[01:23] Katie Chandler: A good person to chat with. So we cannot wait to get into this. So welcome, Marissa. Welcome to the show.

[01:29] Marisa Faye: Thanks so much for having me.

[01:31] Katie Chandler: Well, before we get started, let's do our Nirvana of the week. Amy, do you want to get us started?

[01:38] Speaker D: Sure, I can get us started. Welcome, Marissa. So excited to have you here. So my nirvana this week, I would say, well, kind of last week. Bleeding into this week. I was on vacation last week with my husband celebrating a milestone anniversary. It was our 20th anniversary, so that was amazing. And we were out west in Utah and Arizona, and it was just amazing. And we were unplugged and just relaxed, and it was just nice to get away and be completely just not having the everyday stuff going on. It was good to just reconnect and have a really nice, relaxing trip. So that was definitely my nirvana of last weekend. This week. It's bleeding into this week.

[02:20] Katie Chandler: What about you, Katie? Yeah, I know. Your trip was like one massive nirvana, every aspect of it. It's amazing. I was just thinking, I think mine. I had a really great piece of nirvana earlier in my week. I have new clients in the city, and I live close to Manhattan. Marissa and I'm training it into the city now, which is a new thing for me. And I was so afraid, like, how my energy would hold up. And I had a couple days in a row, really busy, in and out of the city, and I felt great. And that with my autoimmune conditions for my energy to hold up and to not crash as hard as I could, it really was. So I was literally dancing in the shower one evening because it was like 06:00 p.m., and I still felt good. Like, I went to the city, I worked, came back, cooked dinner for the kids.

[03:08] Speaker D: What's the secret what are you doing differently?

[03:10] Katie Chandler: You know what? It's actually kind of crazy, and we can get into it on another episode, but I stopped taking my statin, which we found out that was causing a lot of problems for me. So that's a whole other episode for another day.

[03:23] Speaker D: Interesting.

[03:23] Marisa Faye: Good. Yeah.

[03:24] Katie Chandler: I stopped my Statin, and since I stopped it, I have felt like I'm 25 again. That and hormones. Marissa, with you're here, actually, that is.

[03:32] Marisa Faye: Affecting your hormones, and I'm going to touch on that for you.

[03:35] Katie Chandler: Okay, good. All right, before we do that, I would love to hear your Nirvana of the week.

[03:39] Marisa Faye: So my nirvana of the week is opposite of yours, I want to say, because my Nirvana of the week was I had plans after work multiple days this week with friends to catch up, and for some reason or another, they just didn't happen. Someone canceled. Someone had a tire that blew. It was just things like that. Nothing happened to me, but it happened to all these other people. And so I wound up with extra downtime.

[04:02] Katie Chandler: Nice.

[04:03] Marisa Faye: And I was just like, yes, thank you. I will take this gift for sure.

[04:08] Katie Chandler: Extra downtime is always very welcomed, right? And rare.

[04:12] Marisa Faye: Yeah.

[04:12] Katie Chandler: Nice. Okay, well, let's get into it because we have so many questions, and as you just heard, hormones are very much at the forefront of my mind right now. So why don't we first just do a little 101? Let's discuss all of the hormones that are contributing to your imbalances, because I think we fail to realize that it's more than just, like, estrogen and testosterone. And there's a lot more.

[04:38] Marisa Faye: Yes, there are many hormones. So depending who you talk to, there are either 50 hormones or 200 hormones or hormone like substances. And I tend to go to that 200 camp because there are a lot of things that might behave like hormones but haven't been officially labeled as such. But a hormone really simply is just a chemical messenger. So they're little messengers in your body that move around and tell one thing to do something they somewhat other thing something did. Right. So it's kind of like imagine a game of telephone. Your hormones are like that, right? They're kind of going between all these different places to make things happen, which means there's also a lot of room for them to be impacted by things that aren't going right or things that are going right. Right. So this creates a lot of opportunity for different kinds of issues to come into the mix. And there are different categories of hormones. A lot of times when we're talking about hormone imbalances, we're talking about hormones from one of two categories. So one category is our steroid hormone pathway, which a lot of us think about, like, oh, okay, I can think about that. Like cortisol. Right? We're talking about stress hormones, and actually we're talking about estrogen. We're talking about progesterone. We're talking about testosterone. We're talking about all the related hormones pregnant, alone, DHEA, and most importantly, we're talking about cholesterol, because cholesterol is at the top of the chain for steroid hormones. So really important to know these different pathways and what could be impacting things. If you really want to get in the weeds on things, but if you don't want to get into the weeds, the most important thing for people to know is that hormones are a part of your endocrine system, which a lot of us shorthand will say our hormone system, right? But you need to know that your endocrine system is connected to the rest of your body, which means it's entirely impacted by everything else in your body. So the endocrine system is composed of a lot of glands that I like to say are delicate flowers. They're really easily impacted. Part of their beauty is how sensitive they are and how responsive they are. But also double edged sword, because they can be really like that best friend you have, right, who's super empathetic, and she's along for the journey with you when you tell her a story about something great that happened, but also when something terrible happened. And then she starts crying and you're like, well, hang on, it wasn't about you, right? It's very much like that. So a lot of times when we're talking about women's hormone imbalances, I really focus on seven of the most common ones because they're involved in the vast majority of hormone issues that women are having, and they are going to be high estrogen, low estrogen, low progesterone, high testosterone, insulin dysregulation. And that has become such a hot topic. Cortisol, dysregulation, thyroid dysfunction. So those are the seven biggies seven big hormones that we've got to be thinking about and talking about when it comes to hormone imbalances.

[07:30] Speaker D: What is the one you just mentioned? It was like the fourth or fifth one, the one you said and something I've never heard of that. What is that?

[07:38] Marisa Faye: High testosterone. Was that the one?

[07:40] Speaker D: No, sorry. It was the one that you said is getting a lot of insulin.

[07:44] Marisa Faye: Insulin Dysregulation.

[07:45] Speaker D: Oh, insulin. Oh, I didn't hear you. Insulin. Okay, got it.

[07:49] Katie Chandler: Just a quick sidebar. Everything that you just said, I've been learning a lot about it lately, and the fact that progesterone and things like that are precursors to cortisol, which is your stress hormone, was like a revelation for me. I'm sure you don't know this. I have Addison's disease, so I don't make cortisol. So I started using topical progesterone lately, and I was like, wow, where's this energy coming from? I feel great. And I think it's because of the whole chain, which is just so wild. So it's really good to talk to you because I think people don't understand how vastly responsible all of these hormones are and how much they affect every system in your body. It's wild. And millions of different symptoms. What are some symptoms that we will see with hormone imbalance?

[08:37] Marisa Faye: Yes, totally. And the other thing to know too, is that a lot of times if you go and change one hormone, you're going to change others. So sometimes that's wonderful. Like what you're probably experiencing is your thyroid hormone is a little happier is my guess, because progesterone and thyroid hormone, they're besties. So we have to always be mindful of that relationship too. But common symptoms. So first of all, depending on who you talk to and if you're working with a skilled practitioner or being educated by a skilled practitioner, like in my course, or when somebody works one on one with me, big value for me is education. But what you'll find is that there are a lot of potential symptoms that could link back to a hormone issue, but there are also just kind of these common buckets we think about and they tend to be things like sleep problems. So trouble falling asleep, trouble staying asleep, trouble feeling rested from sleep. Right? So things related to that, brain fog or issues focusing and concentrating, like ADHD and middle aged women is having a real moment right now. And while I think it is valid and probably true that there are many women who are under diagnosed, not everybody has ADHD. So there's a real hormone component here, actually, and a gut health component as well, which brings us to problems with your digestion. So Bloating, slow gut motility, distension, even things like acid reflux. So Cortisol is a big issue with acid reflux, actually. And we can see things as women go through perimenopause and on the other side are past menopause. We can see different kinds of symptoms crop up. And part of it does have to do with what's going on, with their lack of as much estrogen or progesterone potentially. So hormones are a part of that too. Mood swings, anxiety, low mood, feeling really stressed all the time, persistent headaches, migraines. We have our more sexual health related things like vaginal dryness or changes going on down there that are not typical, loss of sex drive, right, things like that. Skin issues, hormonal, acne, really strong body odor, lots of food cravings, feeling really overwhelmed all the time. Weight gain or what I think is typically more of a sign of hormone issue is like weight loss resistance, which is like your body just will not move. Right? And a lot of times we back ourselves into that corner through a history of dieting and undernourishing. But hormones are a big part of that, of course. Hot flashes, night sweats, which can happen at any point in your life, by the way, not just because you're going through menopause and changes in things like your breast tissue and tenderness there. And then actually you have an increased susceptibility to certain kinds of infections, viruses, bacteria and organisms if your hormones are imbalanced. So that's a whole lot. I know, I just talked a whole bunch, but that's a whole lot of things that could potentially be related to what's going on with hormones.

[11:26] Katie Chandler: I feel like Amy and I were both just.

[11:30] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, it's like Katie and I talk about this all the mean, and I'm sure our listeners can relate because so many of us go through this in various stages of our lives. But especially lately, at least for me, I've been mean. Katie knows this. It's like the brain fog is a real struggle. Tiredness I've been going through for years, stuff with just and I've been saying also for years that my hormones are off, but I couldn't really find the right kind of person to help me with it. And I found someone years ago who helped me a little bit. And then recently I actually just did like a whole panel and saw that everything was low. So I went to another specialist, and I'm actually, similar to Katie, I'm doing a cream, which I just started maybe like a month ago or three weeks ago for an estrogen cream, a testosterone cream, and a progesterone pill. It has helped me so much.

[12:26] Katie Chandler: We haven't had a chance, especially about that.

[12:28] Speaker D: I know we haven't talked about it, so I figured I'd fill you in. It's helped me so much. Brain fog, not as much, but with the tiredness and the energy level, like game changer. And actually it'll be interesting as a follow up because I just got my blood tested today. So I'm very interested to see if it's actually working, if it's in my head or if the numbers will change, because the doctor said that if it's working, the numbers will change. The one question I have, though, on it, and maybe you would know this, maybe you're not, I'm not sure, but I wasn't having night sweats or anything like that. More of just like the brain fog and the tiredness and the headaches and all that kind of stuff. I've noticed that recently I've had night sweats, and I'm like, is that new? Is that because of this? I've also had a little bit of breast tenderness to your point. So I was like, is that the hormones kind of working? What are your thoughts on that?

[13:22] Marisa Faye: Yeah, so it really depends. And your provider may have done all of this kind of in the order that we would typically do from a functional medicine standpoint. So kind of as a baseline for people just to know, first of all, bioidentical hormone replacement therapy makes sense for a lot of us at a certain point in our life, so I want to normalize that. But there are a lot of other types of hormone medications and therapies you can do that are not bioidentical. So it's really important that that word is part of the process. So that's really important. The next thing that's important is if you're still cycling, even if your cycle has a lot of time between it. So if you haven't gone a whole year without a period, or if you're one of the women who's on it and you kind of found you were going through perimenopause and got on this bioidentical hormone replacement therapy train, you actually probably would continue to bleed regularly if you're cycling hormones appropriately, which is not a bad thing, even though a lot of people find it annoying. Not a bad thing. But it's actually really important that you do testing that can look at more than just your blood work at one point in time, because your hormones fluctuate a ton when you are in phase of perimenopause. And perimenopause can last ten years. It's quite a long time, really. Yeah. And so really important that you're doing ideally comprehensive testing, something like a Dutch test or an extended saliva panel, something like that, where you're collecting multiple samples throughout a cycle or even just throughout a month, right. If you're still bleeding, even occasionally. So this is really important because we then get a better idea of what are hormones doing not just one day, one point in time, but throughout your kind of hormone life cycle. Right. Which is typically our cycle. So that's really important. One of the interesting things with night sweats is though, that a lot of times we hear about them in relation to, oh, your estrogen is going low. And I actually have found the opposite to be true. I have found that women tend to have night sweats when estrogen is high. And anything interesting about lower high estrogen, we're actually talking about it to be relative. So relatively high compared to progesterone because we want them to have the same magnitude. Right. But the first half of your cycle, estrogen is the star of the show, the second half of your cycle, progesterone, is the star of the show. But we want them to have the same magnitude or strength. So a lot of times, a lot of times I see women when estrogen relatively is high compared to progesterone. I actually see the night sweats come in then and we can also see the night sweats come in when estrogen is doing this kind of on a roller coaster, right. For people who aren't seeing me, which is everyone. Right. So estrogen kind of can go on a roller coaster. Right. And it could be part of hormones kind of coming back online and absorbing the therapies that you're doing. And so that could be part of the process, but it also could mean that the levels are not exactly right. So it's just something to be mindful of.

[16:15] Katie Chandler: Like she could be on potentially too much or too little of one thing.

[16:20] Speaker D: Right.

[16:20] Katie Chandler: And the body is still adjusting and sorting out what exactly you need. Right?

[16:25] Marisa Faye: Yeah.

[16:26] Speaker D: I'm going to reach out and ask them what they think. But it's interesting that you said that about the more estrogen because actually when I was younger, I mean, maybe five, six years ago, right before I was getting my period, I remember I would get night sweats, like a couple of nights before, and it had nothing to do with perimenopause or anything like that. So it's interesting that you say that, because that makes sense to me. So anyway, but I'm still working on balancing well and too with that is.

[16:53] Marisa Faye: One of the reasons sometimes we get that. And I've had that too, by the way, in my younger years, where I would get really bad night flats before my period. So typically most people would say, well, that's because that's when all of your hormones are diving, because your hormones dive down before you get your period, before you bleed. But I have just found symptomatically. When I look at the lab work, and I look at a lot of lab work, when I look at lab work, and when I also look at symptom inventories and learn a client's body and even learn my own body, that sure, maybe at that moment that you had the night sweat, your estrogen was coming down. But it's not that your estrogen is always down, it's that it's kind of going through something.

[17:31] Katie Chandler: Right.

[17:32] Marisa Faye: Likely there's some kind of higher estrogen issue because estrogen also gets stored in the tissue. So some lab work is just never going to catch what's being stored in the tissue.

[17:48] Speaker D: It's an interesting journey, and Katie's been following it because when I did all my testing a couple months ago, everything was low. That's when I was like, oh, no wonder I'm so tired. So it'll be interesting to kind of follow it and figure it out along the way.

[18:03] Marisa Faye: Go ahead, Katie.

[18:04] Katie Chandler: The testing is so important and so interesting, and I have a cycle, but I don't have my uterus. I have no way of tracking it. And the doctors that I have been working with have only done blood tests, so I really need to do one of those tests. Let's review again the names of the testing because there's multiple ones, right?

[18:27] Marisa Faye: I want our listeners also, do you have your Ovaries?

[18:31] Katie Chandler: I do. So I do.

[18:32] Marisa Faye: Cycle you can track and maybe you've tried this, and with the Addison's, it may throw this off a little bit, but you actually could track your waking body temperature.

[18:42] Katie Chandler: Okay.

[18:43] Marisa Faye: And that would be a way for you to identify if and when Ovulation might be happening. And so then you could track where your cycle is based on that.

[18:53] Katie Chandler: Okay. Yeah, I've never tried that. I've heard of it. When your temperature is higher, you're Ovulating. Is that right?

[19:00] Marisa Faye: So what we typically see is right before Ovulation temperature goes down a little bit, and then yeah, when you Ovulate goes up okay. So you'll see the first half of the cycle, typically temperature is a smidge lower. We see a little dip, then Ovulation happens in the second half of the cycle, it's a little bit higher.

[19:16] Katie Chandler: Okay. All right. That's interesting. I'm going to try that. It'll make things so much easier because I'm on progesterone, I'm on estrogen, and it's hard to say what the right amount of it is, other than I'm incredibly in tune with my body and I feel good. But the testing so we've got the Dutch test. We've got what else?

[19:37] Marisa Faye: There's a few which, with the Dutch, I do want to clarify here, because, again, really important if you have your ovaries and you're potentially still ovulating, right? So that's the key here. Potentially still ovulating, you want to do a cycling panel. So that's going to be a test that you're collecting multiple samples throughout over the course of depending how long your cycle is, right? Three and a half to five, even six weeks. So if you do something like a Dutch, you don't want the one that's called the Dutch complete, right. You don't want the test where you're collecting over a 24 or 36 hours period because it's not going to give you the data you need about estrogen progesterone.

[20:13] Katie Chandler: Right.

[20:13] Marisa Faye: So you want a cycling panel, and they do make a Dutch cycle mapping test. So that's what I'll use if I use the Dutch. But the thing to know is, about any test, like the Dutch test, I used often in my practice. I also use one through a company called Diagnostic Solutions. It's called an extended female hormone panel. It's a saliva test, but those are my two top ones. And then I will sometimes check certain things via blood at certain points in somebody's cycle, but always to give context to another test because that's almost never enough information for us. But if you're cycling and you get one of those kinds of cycling tests, you need to also know there are advantages and disadvantages to every test. So the Dutch can be beautiful and wonderful for showing you the pathways estrogen is going down, because estrogen can go down different pathways, and some of those pathways are more pro inflammatory, more pro cancer, for example. We can also see if your liver is doing a good job with clearance of estrogen. So that's a really lovely thing to be able to check. If you do one of the versions where you can have your cortisol pattern done on it, you can see what's happening in a particular day related to cortisol hormone. You can see melatonin. So that's a really beautiful test for looking at specific things. However, that is not a great test if we really want to look at things like brain signaling or super duper accurate progesterone, it's not the most accurate with progesterone. So if I have somebody who I think I really need to be able to see more about their progesterone, and I really want to see more about what their brain signaling to the ovary is going on. So looking at things like FSH, follicular stimulating hormone and LH luteinizing hormone. So if I want to see that, which oftentimes with like, a fertility client, I want to see that, that's really important. So we make sure healthy ovulation is happening. Usually the saliva panel I use is a better option there. So there are always going to be benefits and drawbacks to different testing. Right? It just really depends. And likewise blood work. If I have a woman who's post menopause, truly post menopause, blood work might give us all the information we really need. Right. So just knowing the right test for where you are in your journey is really important.

[22:23] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I can see how that is absolutely crucial because someone could be coming to you. A woman can come to you at any different stage in life for any different hormonal issue. And just going to your obgen, they're not going to necessarily offer that. Okay, so why don't we get into a little bit of what you mentioned earlier, the insulin resistance and the weight loss resistance and all of that. Because I think Amy and I for sure have both been dealing with that a little. Just it's like very frustrating when that starts to happen to your body. Never happened before if you wanted to.

[23:01] Speaker D: And you eat healthy.

[23:04] Katie Chandler: Right. Why does that happen?

[23:07] Speaker D: Yeah, and just to add on to that, the other pieces which Katie and I also struggle with is it's like that stubborn, you can't lose it, and it's like 510 pounds, that kind of thing. And then you eat healthy and you exercise, but once in a while you'll have whatever it is, a slice of pizza, a piece of cheese, and you're like, five pounds the next day you're like, what the **** is going on? Like, this is crazy.

[23:29] Marisa Faye: Yes, you hit the nail on the head there. I know. So many women share that experience. So a couple of things, a few things I'm going to drop on you here that may be surprising. One is any woman dealing with a hormone issue is dealing with a gut issue. Meaning we've got some kind of inflammation in the gut, we've got some kind of dysfunction in the gut, we've got some kind of organism overgrowth. And by the way, it does not mean you need to do a candida diet or that you have SIBO necessarily. Right. It's like there are so many ways your gut can be dysfunctioning, so it just means there's something wrong going on with your gut that needs to be worked on. Number two, I have seen very few women who have hormone issues who do not have insulin resistance or some kind of progression towards insulin dysregulation. It's incredibly common. And this is part of where because the whole system works together, but it's also, I believe, part of because of how we all societally have been conditioned. Because a great way to get an insulin issue, an insulin regulation issue or a blood sugar related issue is to do any kind of amount of living in Western society and dieting. It's a great way to get it. So you put a lot of stress on your body when you do that. Also a great way to get it is frankly to be a woman in this world, trying to make things happen for yourself, but also having all the ten other responsibilities we have as women, right? So high stress, periods of high stress that your body has been through, whether that be from caloric restriction, not sleeping for long periods of time, major stress in your life because you're caretaking, for example, a super duper stressful job where you're working all the time because you really want to do a good job at it, right? But any of these for a long time, this type of stress puts a lot of stress on your blood sugar regulation. And what you need to actually be doing is nourishing more, not less. And a lot of us tend towards the nourish less and a lot of the foods that we are taught are healthy and going to keep you lean and give you the body you want as a woman actually are backfiring on us. So all the raw veggies, all the nuts and seeds, all the not enough protein, frankly, because no matter how you slice it, plant based sources of protein just do not touch animal based sources of protein. So we are malnourished and that is a great way to make it hard for your blood sugar to be regulated. And I think it's helpful too to understand what insulin resistance is, perhaps, unless you all have covered that before.

[25:51] Katie Chandler: No, I think this is very important to cover and also even to help people understand what insulin's job is because I think it's very not a lot of people understand it.

[26:03] Marisa Faye: Yes, totally. So I love talking about this because we all are smart and we all want to understand our bodies. But it's like this information, people try to complicate it so much. If you listen to scientist or somebody who's a doctorate talk about this stuff, they're going to talk for an hour and you're going to be like, I'm confused. I'm really a fan of how can we make it so we all understand? So I'm going to try to do that and you all let me know if I missed that mark and I'll work on it. So here's the thing. All of your cells need glucose, which is a fancy scientific name for sugar, okay? Glucose is critical to your survival. It's so critical that your body, if you're not getting it through food, has a way to get it by breaking down your muscle and things in your liver. That is not a good thing. That is very stressful in your body. But that's just a sign for you to know how important glucose is for your body, that it has these different fail stops where. It's going to make it, it's going to do something super resource intensive if you don't eat it. This is happening, by the way, to people who are on the keto diet. This is what's happening. And people who are on the carnivore diet, their body is making it because they're not giving it to them. So over time, what happens and before kind of we get into the overtime. The way the glucose, the quick energy gets into your cells is through insulin. Insulin is like the key that unlocks the door to the cell. So glucose can get inside your body releases is supposed to release the appropriate amount of insulin, not too much, not too little for the amount of glucose that you've eaten or that is in your blood in order to usher it into your cells or frankly, into your muscle. Muscle is a great storage for glucose. It's one of the reasons I'm such a huge fan of women's strength training. It's just incredible for that. So over time, what happens if a woman is living that stressful life that I described before, right? Or if a woman is also doing the opposite, right? Overeating a lot and eating a lot of highly processed foods. So especially highly palatable foods. These are foods that have a lot of fat and usually a lot of sugar in them, but not a lot of protein or nutrients. Your brain lights up, right? Your brain and body are like more that's like doritos ice cream, right? These things that just like we crave them because they're just so yummy. So if you eat a lot of those things, this can also happen. And what will start to happen at the beginning of the progression of an insulin issue is somebody's pancreas will release more and more insulin because it's like the cell is having trouble hearing it. Or you're having a lot of glucose in the system at one time from eating all those highly palatable foods, those really sugary foods, or from being very high stressed because when your cortisol goes up, your body puts more glucose into your blood. So over time, your body's like, we're releasing more insulin. We're trying to get all this glucose into your cell, but all this glucose continues to hang around and why aren't we listening? And over time, the cells lose their sensitization, basically. And so we have a body that eventually is like, I'm tired. You know what? You're not listening to what I'm trying to tell you. I'm trying to release the right amount of insulin to get you to bring this into the cell, but it is not working. And we can see one of two things happen. So we can see bodies where they continue to try to maintain releasing a high level of insulin. And over time, that just gets harder and harder to do. Or what I see in a lot of women, especially a lot of women who are trying to live really healthy lifestyles is that their blood sugar continues to dip low, so they head towards having low blood sugar, not high, which is what a lot of doctors are looking for. So when doctors want to diagnose somebody with diabetes, they're looking for you to have high blood glucose. But what I see most often when I look at women's blood work and when I have them put a CGM on a continuous glucose monitor, which is a really cool thing to do if you've never done it, but when I have them put that on and track their food for two weeks. What I tend to see in a lot of bodies, especially my very health conscious clients, is they go very low. Often very low. And anytime we're going very low or very high, very stressful for the body.

[30:17] Katie Chandler: I'm so fascinated. We're going to have to have a call offline. I'm going to have to start working with you, because this is exactly I actually am pre diabetic, and there's so many reasons for it. It's not just like one simple reason. But I say that because, like you said, doctors are always looking for one thing with diabetes. And so I think there's a lot of women that it's being completely overlooked that they're dealing with these issues because they don't have metabolic issues. Are they say you have to have a certain waist size circumference. You have to have all of these checklists that you might not necessarily have but still have these insulin problems, and then it doesn't get treated. And then when you have the insulin resistance, does that lead to the weight loss resistance? Because your body's not able to use its energy correctly, the food you're putting into your body.

[31:17] Marisa Faye: Yes. So that can be a really common reason it's happening. And the other thing is, anytime that blood sugar is dipping very low often or going very high often, it creates a lot of inflammation. We're actually seeing they're starting to study this, which is cool because they don't always study things like this, right? Because I'm not sure yet who's going to make money, right. But they actually studied that blood sugar swings contributes to premature aging, and especially talking about skin health and hair health. Ladies, if you want healthy skin and hair, you've got to regulate your blood sugar. That is key here. But, yes, it is very hard to lose weight in the presence of, frankly, any kind of blood sugar dysregulation, whether it's insulin dysregulation, which is the term I kind of use just because of your point of, like, I don't diagnose and I don't really care this may sound cold. I don't really care what the diagnosis is, frankly, because I'm looking at your body from a totally different lens. And a lot of times when people are diagnosed, it can be wrong or it's just a doctor trying to put a label on it. And I don't think it gets us closer to our goal of really feeling our best. So that's why I say insulin dysregulation, because it's like, well, there could be a lot of things going on with your insulin, right? And so I think it's important to know that it's not just one way. But yes, that can be incredibly stressful for our body. And then a body is going to hold on to all the resources because it doesn't feel safe to let it go.

[32:41] Speaker D: I have a couple of questions. We had talked about this in another show with a nutritionist, but so if your insulin is regulated, does that then mean you have metabolic flexibility or not? Because my understanding is a metabolic flexibility is what you want, so you can eat various different things and not gain or lose and be healthy in that way. So is it related?

[33:05] Marisa Faye: Yeah, it can be. But I would say insulin is not the only thing I would look at to see if somebody has metabolic flexibility.

[33:12] Speaker D: Okay.

[33:12] Marisa Faye: But I do think it's an interesting way to kind of track and know if you're potentially off the mark. But metabolic flexibility also, we'd want to look at things like your thyroid function. We'd want to look at things like your adrenal function, we'd want to look at things like your liver function so there can be more to the story. But it's a good kind of beginning thing to look at. And by the way, if anybody here is concerned about their blood sugar regulation or their insulin, it's really important that you advocate for the right blood work with this. And I see a lot of providers, especially for my clients or women I talk to, who think they might have PCOS because there are different kinds of PCOS and a large group of people who have PCOS actually have insulin issues and the PCOS is honestly just a symptom of their insulin issue. But I see it a lot too in women with thyroid issues, adrenal issues, all of that kind of that point of it traveling together. But a fasting blood glucose is not enough to diagnose you with an insulin issue. So you need to know that and advocate for yourself. And I'm a big fan of if we're looking at somebody's blood sugar regulation, I want to see their fasting insulin, I do want to see their fasting glucose, but I also want to see a complete metabolic panel. I also want to see a CBC, I want to see are there other ways that their body could be stressed out or other things that could be causing a stressor? Because when a body is stressed, there are a number of things that can dysfunction and actually your metabolic flexibility is one of those things.

[34:46] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's very interesting.

[34:49] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also find us on Instagram at nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us.

[35:03] Speaker D: Tune in next week for a fresh.

[35:05] Amy Sherman: New episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 111 - Gut Healing for Beginners with Gut Journalist, Sarah K Hoffman, aka A Gutsy Girl (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 111 - Gut Healing for Beginners with Gut Journalist, Sarah K Hoffman, aka A Gutsy Girl

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your Nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:24] Amy Sherman: You.

[00:29] Katie Chandler: Welcome back to the show. Today we are sitting down with Sarah K hoffman. She is the founder of a gutsy girl. The Gutsygirl.com. It's an online community geared towards women who are looking for reasonable approaches for healing. IBS IBD, SIBO and all things gut focused. What began for Sarah as an online journal documenting the day to day with one health issue after the next would shortly become less story focused and more research and journalistic based, which I very much understand that Sarah. Today, Sarah seeks out highly detailed information and then condenses it in digestible ways for women worldwide. After years of struggling with her own health issues and considering there must be more to healing than the answer she was given, she went on to study at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, adding a certified health coach to her education. And she continued to devote every spare second to studying, researching, practicing all things gut health and gut healing and has built this amazing community. A gutsy girl. And we are just super excited that you're here. We can't wait to talk to you. We have so many questions for you. So thanks for being here.

[01:36] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Thanks for having me. I'm super excited. I love being able to sit down and talk on the other end of the seat with podcasters and just kind of to be in the hot seat.

[01:47] Amy Sherman: Yeah, that's right, you have your own podcast so we will all have to check that out as well. And yes, thank you for being on. I know Katie is the one who introduced your page to me and she's been following you for a very long time and is a super fan of all your knowledge. So thank you so much for being here.

[02:03] Katie Chandler: Before we get started, we like to do a little Nirvana of the Week. Sarah, it's just something that just brought you a moment of joy. Amy and I will go first so you can get the feeling of it. But Amy, why don't you tell us what was your nirvana this week?

[02:16] Amy Sherman: So I was thinking about this this morning and I had a really cute moment yesterday. I was driving and you know, we're always like rushing and driving, whatever and I was just kind of like rushing through my neighborhood not paying attention. And I was driving on my neighborhood street and I saw this massive deer go across the street like really slowly. So of course I stopped and the person across from me stopped and it was like this massive mama deer walking across the street really slowly. And then like 2 seconds later there was this little baby deer. It was the cutest thing. It was so small. I don't think I've ever seen a deer that small. This little baby deer just like walking across this street, kind of like not even so. Just kind of like bouncing around and like a little toddler or something walking across the street. And the mom was just like, waiting on the other side and then she got to the other side and the mom looked at her like we would do with our kids, just like making sure she was okay and then off they went. But it was just so sweet when you see nature like that. And it's like we all stopped all the cars. Like my car, the car crossed from me. We all just watched them and took that moment. It was just a nice little smile on my face. So I really appreciated seeing that. It was very sweet to see other moms doing their thing. That was mine. What about you, Katie?

[03:26] Katie Chandler: Here in our backyard all the time, which has actually brought me not a ton of nirvana because my dog had a tick yesterday from it. But that's okay.

[03:34] Amy Sherman: Yeah, not in the backyard, but out in nature.

[03:37] Katie Chandler: I think mine was yesterday with Reese. I have two girls, Sarah. I have an almost ten year old and a five year old. And we just had some good snuggles last night. We both had really busy days and I took her to the dentist and I was running all day, she was running all day. And we just got in bed and watched the other half of Et. We watched this weekend and we watched it together. I haven't watched it since I was a kid, so it was kind of fun to watch with her, but it was just some good snuggles. What about you, Sarah?

[04:07] Sarah Kay Hoffman: I love those. Those are so awesome. And I love this question, too. It's such a peaceful and calm question. I have two girls too, about similar in age. We have a seven, eight and nine year old. So I have two girls and a boy. It's busy. I don't have too many nirvana moments with them, but I would say so. I was listening to yours and I'm just taking myself to a really peaceful moment. And it was this morning, actually. So a few years ago, about the time when my dad passed away, I started really getting into succulents and caring for them and keeping them alive because they're always on the list of the easiest plants to take care of, but they're not, especially when you live in Minnesota, because this is not the desert, obviously. I have been spending the last few years really taking care of them and so I have now brought them into my house in the winter and I put them under lights and then in the spring and summer I bring them outside. Well, my collection has just really blossomed. I have so many pots of succulents out on our deck and it was just the most beautiful morning overlooking the lake in Minnesota today. So I went outside and I just sat there and stared at my succulents and watched the water, just like the sun glisten off of the water over my succulents. It was so peaceful that sat there for lovely ten minutes enjoying the fruits of my labor with my succulents and love succulents.

[05:39] Amy Sherman: You'll have to send us a picture. I need to see what they look like so I can get some inspiration. I used to have some, and now they're no longer in as good health as yours, clearly. But that sounds beautiful.

[05:51] Katie Chandler: Very peaceful. Sounds like a great way to start the day. All right, well, let's kick this off because we have a lot of questions for you. I think first, if you could just give our community a little bit of an insight into the gutsy girl community, that would be great.

[06:06] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah. So I actually started the gutsy girl community way back when in I think it was 2012, when I bought a gutsygirl.com. And at the time and there's a reason I'm saying this first, but at the time, I created the brand and the community because I wanted to connect with women who were not only dealing with IBS and or IBD. As I was in 2008, was diagnosed with colitis, and then 2014 was diagnosed with SIBO, and I've been diagnosed with all the things. But also during that time around 2012, I was dealing with another super gutsy issue that many women, also, who have IBS and or IBD deal with, which is infertility. And so it was just this time of my in my life when I thought, you know, I'm going to just be really bold and brave and talk about this and form a community, because I didn't really have one like my offline. There wasn't really one. So I wanted one, and I wanted a space to be able to share and to talk about both the physical and the emotional challenges that I was dealing with. And so I created this community. And over time, it really has shifted and changed, I think partly because that's just the way that websites go typically, but also because I became less focused on the infertility part of it. I would do still talk about it sometimes, just not as often. And I got really hyper focused on IBS and IBD because I do a lot of plays on words. But I noticed that there were these stinky topics that people in general did not want to talk about, but especially women. And so I thought, these are my people, and these are the people that I want to talk to and hang out with online. And then ultimately yeah, I love that.

[08:01] Katie Chandler: It's so true that it's not like it's taboo. It's just like I feel like people are embarrassed to discuss these things, and meanwhile, it's super natural in common, and all of us have it. I've always been the first one to be like, oh, go to the bathroom in four days. I know people that are like, they don't want to talk anything about it, and I understand, but to be able to open up the dialogue and everything is great, and it's incredibly helpful, and obviously, you have a massive following that, and you've helped a lot of people. So that's why you have created it and why your community of people, they're coming to you because you find that they are dealing with similar experiences, having a challenging time, getting a diagnosis, and sorting out how to heal their symptoms. Those are the things that you help them with.

[08:52] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yes. So I feel like most women come into the community who have gone to Dr. Google and who are asking, why does my stomach hurt? It is the foundational feeling and question that many women have because it's very confusing. And I think the reason is because there are so many factors. And so on any given day, our stomach can feel off for one reason or another, and at some point, people just think, what's causing this? Why does my stomach hurt? Yesterday I was fine. Today I'm not. Last week is miserable. What's triggering it? And then they go down the rabbit hole, and there's all these questions. And so I think that's really the basis of the community and the foundational place that people start.

[09:48] Katie Chandler: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, because I should be in your community because I experience similar things. My stomach will be great, and then it won't be. And then I try to figure out why, and it's impossible, and then you figure out why, and then it's something else. It's just constantly changing. So let's dive into a little bit more about what your expertise has taught you with all of this. Why is IBS IBD SIBO so prominent with women especially?

[10:21] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Well, I think there's a lot of reasons for this, and to be very clear, okay, so IBS is irritable bowel syndrome. It's a whole bunch of symptoms and things that then fall under this classification of IBS. It's pretty much when you go to your doctor and they're like, well, we're not really sure. So it's IBS. And to me and in my experiences and in different doctors that I've worked with and talked to and research and all the things, it's really just kind of a BS diagnosis. But unfortunately, so many women, that's kind of the place where they start and they stay for a really long time. Then there's IBD, which, of course, is inflammatory bowel disease, which is very severe. It's diagnostic. It's all the things. And I would say I tend to focus a little bit less there because it is so severe. And a lot of women not a lot women who have IBS can also have IBD, but they haven't gotten to that place yet. Right. So it's almost like a futuristic thing that I'm trying to help women get to faster, if that's really what the problem is. And then SIBO just falls underneath the IBS category. So SIBO stands for small Intestinal bacterial overgrowth. And it's a huge I'm sure you guys have seen it online, but it's a huge explosion of conversation because more and more women are being diagnosed with it. It's the diagnosis that you have been to your doctor, your gastroenterologist, whatever, over and over and over, and they said, it's just IBS, and turns out it's really SIBO. There's so many different terms, right? There's so many different things that people fall under. But that's where it's also very confusing, because when we come into any one of these, there are multiple symptoms, and you can have these symptoms on any given day, but that doesn't mean that you have colitis or Crohn's or celiac. Doesn't necessarily mean that, but it can. And so I think that these are the things that I work with every single day. And women are coming into this community because they feel these symptoms, and they know that they are not normal, but they have just learned to live with them, and now they're seeking greater answers. I will say that in my research as well, we talk about women come in into the community, and they're either more on the constipation I can't go to the bathroom spectrum or their diarrhea. And it is about 70% of women fall more on the constipation can't go than on the other end. That would be yes, and that's very common. And there's so many reasons for this. Of course, there can be underlying things. It could be a hormonal thing. It can be an actual medical condition. You could have parasites. You could have scar adhesions that have there's so many actual medical things that they could be. But honestly, what I find more often than not is it's a lifestyle component. So it's the stress. It's the lack of exercise or too much exercise. It is the diet. There are so many factors that play into it. And see right here, I've just described how many different things and this is why it's so confusing, because you're like, oh, my gosh, I don't even know where to start. Okay, now I'm done.

[14:13] Amy Sherman: Yeah. And I would think it's hard too, because it's very different, right, for every single person. Also, I would imagine the regular sort of traditional gastroenterologist type doctor would probably just put you on some sort of medicine and call it a day, which we talk about a lot on the show, of going further and figuring out what else you can do before going on some crazy medicine or doing so. It's also like, who do you even the fact that your community exists is amazing. And then it's like there's got to be other ways to treat other than just, like, taking some hardcore medicine by more integrative type wellness care, I would imagine.

[15:00] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah. And I think that's one reason why I'm able to connect with the community so well is because that was my exact story when I was first diagnosed in 2008. It was through traditional Western medicine and a gastroenterologist, which on the one hand, you're so grateful because they are able to do some of those more invasive procedures and testing and insurance can help get you to those answers. But unfortunately, not once was I ever mentioned anything about the way I was living and the factors in my life. And instead they gave me canasa, which is a suppository, and it made me worse. And it was at that point that I was like, okay, this isn't adding up because I got worse. And I remember a specific day, it will never leave my mind. I was so distended and so bloated. I could not breathe. I was absolutely miserable. And I called my gastroenterologist and he said, okay, yes, come in. I'm going to check you out. Whatever. So he looked at me and he said, oh, wow, you are so distended. The answer is you're going to go down to the Walgreens and you are going to get a bottle of magnesium citrate. It was red, by the way, that big, red, thick, gooey liquid bottle, and you're going to drink the whole bottle.

[16:22] Amy Sherman: Oh, my God.

[16:23] Sarah Kay Hoffman: And it's going to take care of the problem. And lo and behold, I went I did exactly what he said. At this time in my life, I didn't care. I didn't know any and it worked. And everything went through me. And I was like, but I was miserable. I mean, I was miserable. I was sick. Like, you hear about all the jokes about the laxatives? Yeah, that was me. That was me on that day. But I was like, there just has to be more. And I refuse to live the rest of my life like this.

[16:50] Katie Chandler: It's amazing how it can be something so complex and then also but something so simple, like taking magnesium citrate can help you in that moment. But the thing is that these are not long term fixes. So what is it that you did to adjust and to get to where you are now? Because from what I see on your site and what I've heard on your podcast, is that you feel great. You're really healthy, you've gotten your gut under control, and you're helping others do it. For our listeners that are struggling with this, maybe we can just throw out some high level tips that could help them get on their way.

[17:33] Sarah Kay Hoffman: So the way that I break it down is I have after I went through my whole thing, I ultimately got my SIBO diagnosis in 2014, and I healed for good in 2018. And then I'm just laying out the rest of my story before I give you these. So it makes sense.

[17:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[17:54] Sarah Kay Hoffman: So I healed for good in 2018. Between 2014 and 2018, I relapsed from SIBO four times. I have taken all the antibiotics, all the supplements. I've done every last protocol that you can think of from a dietary and medical standpoint. And what ended up happening in 2018 was that I finally figured out how important that stuff was. Important, but the lifestyle component was. And so after I healed, what happened was in 2019, then I just got this let me back up too. My dad was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2017. So the irony though, was not lost on me because I have an entirely renewed energy and passion for people and digestive issues and disease and cancer. And so I got really hyper focused on what actually helped me heal, what was it and what did that mean? And out of that derived my three pillars for ultimate gut healing. And the first two are definitely in order. And the third one is you kind of have to start working on it right away, but it's diagnosis, diet, and lifestyle. So without the appropriate diagnosis, which for me was the SIBO, I went years and years and years of being told it's just IBS and then colitis, and then this, this, yes, those were contributing factors, but what was my bottleneck making me the most miserable was the SIBO. So I had to get to that diagnosis. You have got to have an appropriate diagnosis because if you don't, it's like you're constantly playing the guessing game. You're constantly just going to be analyzing symptoms and trying to figure out which symptoms fall in line with what gut health problem. Right? So diagnosis. The second one is diet. My biggest mistake that I made from a diet standpoint was that I believed that there was a diet, a templated diet out there that was going to heal me. And I believed that if I could so for instance, I would start with the Paleo diet. And if the Paleo diet was working but it wasn't fully working, then I thought I had to paleo harder. And so then I went to the AIP diet, which is the autoimmune protocol, which is just a more stringent version of that. Okay, so then I'm actually eating less and then, well, that's working, but there's still not. So then you just go down this.

[20:43] Katie Chandler: Awful, awful now let's try baby denim diet. And then let's do yes. It just keeps going on and on, right?

[20:51] Sarah Kay Hoffman: And so I had to learn the very hard way that there was no such thing as the perfect diet for me. And the only diet that would work for me, it was the one that I would create based on my diagnosis and what my body was telling me. And I did this through Meticulous Food journaling and listening to my body. We know, you know, inside, we know we don't need anybody to tell us that you can or can't have the white rice. Okay? You know, your body knows. So diet was a second very important thing. And then the last one, the last pillar is lifestyle. And it's so funny because in the beginning of my journey, I rolled my eyes big time at this one. I was like, yeah, right, what's my lifestyle going to do? How am I going to reduce my stress or who cares what supplement? Whatever it was with Lifestyle, I did not believe in it until I started practicing it. And miraculously or not, my life completely changed. It completely changed. I think the first time I ever realized it was so when I was on my healing journey and really stressed and really bloated, for a lot of women, the first thing they think is exercise more. If I go run, it's going to reduce my stress, maybe I'll lose a couple of pounds and we get women especially, really get into this mindset when you're bloated and miserable and maybe hanging on to any extra water weight or whatever. That was really working against me. Every time I would start training again for something new because I thought it was going to help me, I got worse. So the final time that I healed, I said, okay, I'm done, I'm done. I would just walk. I would do different stretches and yoga. I learned how to do all the digestive stretches and I healed. And I'm not saying that's what it is for everyone. What I'm saying is the lifestyle piece is so critical. I also started verbal therapy. I got massages, I did all the things that I always thought were so woo woo and wouldn't work. And I do them to this day. And I think the lifestyle pillar is the hardest one because it's something that you do forever. You don't just get to at some point, we hope we can, wean off of high doses of medicine. Or like in the case of SIBO, I did intense 28 days of refaxmin and Neomycin. Well, ultimately you do stop that, right? But you never get to stop the lifestyle piece. So that happened. I created those. And then I am just so passionate today about continuing to teach and preach my three pillars because in 2019, then my dad passed away from colon cancer. I ever hear that it's just been.

[23:40] Katie Chandler: This roller coaster of and then an awful tragedy like that happens and I mean, I can imagine that it's very hard to maintain the lifestyle that you're supposed to be maintaining. So it's probably a little bit of an up and down. But the fact that you're healed is amazing. And I can only imagine how helpful this is for people. And the lifestyle piece for you, what you needed was to be easier on yourself, it sounded like to be more gentle with your body instead of killing yourself in the gym, going on these walks and everything. We've talked a lot about that on here and how much it can really help on so many things, so many levels with inflammation and just achieving results on multiple layers. I want to circle back a little bit to the SIBO, because I've definitely had an experience with SIBO, and I think for some people that are listening, if that's an unfamiliar term, it's good to just understand that we have all of this bacteria in our gut and it works for us. And then if it gets out of balance, it can work against us. And that's essentially what it is, right? Like I've had candida of the gut overgrowth and that is like it's torture trying to get these things out. But the reason why I bring it up is because I just want to know what helped you get that diagnosis or what type of doctor helped you get to that point. So that our listener, if they're experiencing similar things, knows who to go to.

[25:04] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah, I definitely went the functional route for that. So because I was so miserable and kind of at my wits end, I'm like, I will try anything. At the time we were living in California and a friend of mine said there's this fantastic functional doctor, but it's going to be like an hour and a half away and he specializes in all these things. I was like, it's going to be super expensive. But again, I was desperate and so that's what I did. That's the route that I went as I went more functional. However, I will say that because it's become such a more known issue in the gut space, a lot of traditional doctors are testing for it now. Yes, I think that back then if you went to a western trained doctor, they're definitely going to roll their eyes. And I still believe that there are I know because people tell me a lot of eye rolls still. We're not going to test you for that, especially with people like what happened with me, I gained weight, whereas they're trained that usually you lose a lot of weight and so they might dismiss it, but if you truly think that you have it, do not let them. It's a very simple breath test. I'm not saying it's easy to do, but it is a very simple breath test. However, if you want to know that it's definitely going to be on the table for discussion, immediately, going the alternative.

[26:39] Katie Chandler: Route is probably it's interesting.

[26:41] Amy Sherman: I have a question about SIBO. Is that something you get that can be healed and you don't get it? Again? Because I know colitis is more of like an inflammation that you always have it that can flare up and flare down, but it's like a disease that you have versus is SIBO a disease or is it more just like something that you come down with that you can be healed from?

[27:05] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah, you can be healed from it. It's an overgrowth of bacteria. Okay, so like celiac or colitis those are autoimmune diseases that can be triggered. They can go into remission. But when I hear people say they're cured of it, I'm like, that's not the correct term because you don't get cured from it. There's no cure anyways. You can go into remission. But like with SIBO, so it's an overgrowth and it's not just SIBO is SIBO is SIBO, meaning there's a reason why the SIBO occurred to begin with.

[27:40] Amy Sherman: Right.

[27:41] Sarah Kay Hoffman: And usually you have to understand that to know if it's going to come back or not. For me it was chronic dieting for years and years and years, which led to super low stomach acid, like not even hypochlohydria. I had achlohydria, I had no stomach acid. And so until I figured that out, it did keep relapsing because interesting, also stress reduces stomach acid. So I had all the things anyways. So in that case, if you don't know you have low stomach acid, yes, it's going to come back. You can treat it with your refaxamin, your neomyosin, whatever you want, but it's going to come back. There's other things though, like so I had Doctor Neurology, she's a SIBO expert in Australia, she came on my show and we talked about all of the underlying causes and one of them is like scars or adhesions, like if you have surgery and in that case they heal over time. Yes, but I think it seems like it could reoccur easier because you're never really going to get rid of them. Right. And then sometimes people travel and they pick up a bug and that is actually what refaxamin was originally prescribed for, was travelers diarrhea. And so with a case like that, I feel like that is a little bit easier to overcome because that was like a one time thing. So it really depends on why it occurred to begin with.

[29:13] Amy Sherman: And you found out why it occurred through working with that integrated doctor integrative doctor. Exactly, yeah, because that's, I think such a key piece. I think we all struggle with whether you have stomach issues or migraines like me, et cetera, of like what is the root cause, not like how can I feel better? And yes, I want to feel better, but why am I getting it in the first place? And I think that is like the hardest thing to figure out. And I'm sure to your point, once you did, then you at least could try to figure out then how to resolve it.

[29:41] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Right. So for me it was understanding to the nth degree all about stomach acid and how I was going to increase it. And even to this day I have very adequate, obviously, stomach acid and I'm not relapsing anymore, but I still do things every single day to make sure that I'm always on the up.

[30:02] Katie Chandler: I want to ask a bit about that because I was listening to your most recent episode, which is exactly about the low stomach acid.

[30:08] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Piece.

[30:08] Katie Chandler: And I think that's my problem too. I'm pretty sure that mine stems from having Hypothyroidism and autoimmune stuff, and that's the low stomach acid piece for me. But just curious what you do. Do you do like the betane HCL or digestive enzymes and things like that to help you keep your stomach acid elevated?

[30:29] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah, I do both of those, which are also both in my supplement line because I'm so particular and adamant about them when I was first healing. Yeah, the next episode of the podcast is going to be my eleven natural ways that I increase it because I'm so passionate about it. But like okay, so you can do things that will increase it via supplement. There are also natural ways, like apple cider vinegar, you can do lemon, you can do breathing exercises. There's a lot of natural ways to increase it. My favorite one, honestly though, is just straight any type of added HCL, butane HCL with Pepsin and the enzymes. Because the thing about stomach acid is that we need it to break our food down. So that means we just need help, period, in breaking food down, which is one of the biggest challenges across the board for people. I think there's so many different factors and reasons for that. But the first place that we start breaking our food down is we put food in our mouth and there's all these natural there should be natural digestive enzymes, right? But even there, the digestive process gets off for people. And so having a really high quality digestive enzyme and or mine has the HCL a little bit added right to it. So it's kind of like an all in one will really help the food break down. So that it's easier from a stomach acid standpoint, it's easier for everything to just digest. And for us, ultimately, the goal is to absorb the nutrients, right? 90% of nutrients are absorbed in the small intestine, which is why when you have SIBO, it's a small intestinal issue. You have so many problems with digestion and then also weight, because either you're not absorbing them, you're not doing it right, whatever. There's so many different scenarios. I guess there's a lot of natural ways that you can increase your stomach acid. Something that's really interesting about stomach acid too, is how we've been told forever that we all have too much stomach acid. So we have to be so careful because we have acid reflux, because we have too much stomach acid. And now, of course, research is coming out and people are really being shown, and it's being proven that in fact, a lot of these symptoms are coming because we don't have enough. And then, unfortunately, doctors are putting people with, quote unquote, too much stomach acid on all of these PPIs, these acid reducers, which then is reducing their stomach acid even more, creating even more problems. I'm not saying that everyone is there.

[33:22] Amy Sherman: A test to know you have low stomach acid.

[33:25] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah. So I just talked about that too. So there is a medical one, but it's pretty invasive, so a lot of doctors won't start there. They'll do more of an at home test. The one that I did was with straight HCL and betane HCL and it's a pretty easy process. It's just getting the I think Thorne has a great one on integrative therapeutics. They both have just a great HCL with Pepsin. So the way it goes is you have to be eating protein. That's part of the test. So you eat at least like a whole serving of protein. You take one of the HCL pills, listen to your body, and if there's no burning or anything, then you know that you might not have enough stomach acid. So then the next meal you'd take two with high protein and see what happens. Now when I did this test, I was up to like twelve pills and nothing was happening. And my doctor is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, now we're having too much water with our meals, which also inhibits appropriate digestion. So I was on a protocol for a long, long time where I was doing eight HCL pills until I got it up. So now I'm way down. But that's one of the at home tests. And then you'll see a lot of people talk about like, baking soda challenge and stuff like that. I don't know, I never did that, but I know a lot of functional nutritionists will do that with their clients as well. Interesting, the only test that I know for stomach acid is that one, but it's invasive and it's costly.

[35:03] Katie Chandler: Yeah, you're jogging my memory. I was just going to say when I had SIBO, like peak COVID, I did some of those tests. I did the baking soda one, I don't remember exactly, but I just remember doing these like, at home experiments. It's funny. And also just really quickly, Amy, sorry, I think it was on your social page that I saw a very simple tip for digesting your food, which is chew your food a lot, right? Chew way more than you think you should, and don't drink any water because when you're drinking the water with those meals, you're flushing out those digestive enzymes instead of helping them do their job. So that one's always stuck with me. But anyway Amy, sorry, go ahead.

[35:46] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I know, that's interesting because I feel like I'm always drinking water with my meals, so good note. I wanted to go back to the food journaling because I think that that's interesting. I've never done it and I've always wanted to because it seems overwhelming. But like you were saying, you had a really in depth food Journal. Was there a certain template you followed or how did you track it? Can you just tell us a little bit about that? Because I think for people that are having stomach issues, it might be something worth experimenting with.

[36:12] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yes. So I have my own journal, actually, because it was one of my top tools, and I perfected the process over a decade. But I remember in the beginning, I have a post on my website, too, that shows kind of what my journals look like in the beginning, because in the beginning, they were really focused on calories, and I stood everything all wrong and then till today. So food journaling, if you do it correctly, can be life changing. And the reason why I love mine so much is because it's broken down into 90 days. And the thing is, a lot of people that use my journal, why they like it so much is because it's almost like this compilation of all the things that they're doing, the symptoms they're seeing in a very structured way that they can then also give to their doctor so that by the time they get to their doctor, their doctor is not like, okay, well, I think it's just IBS. They're like, well, no, because XYZ, I've been tracking So on my journal, you track your bowel movements. And I have the whole Bristol Stool chart in there so that if our bowel movements are off on just a random day randomly, we don't really think much about it. But like, for instance, if you are having diarrhea for seven days in a row and then there's blood in some of it, that's very telling. Your doctor needs to know that, and there's a way that you can track that and to be able to see it over time. But in addition to things like that, I also have women track their cycle days because that's very helpful information for the doctor. I have, obviously, water intake, which is pretty standard and basic, but I also have an entire key. So the way that I created my journal is bullet journal meets regular Food and Lifestyle journaling. So I provide a key and I teach you how to use it from the standpoint of okay, so S equals supplement. And so when I write S, I can write digestive enzymes, and then you write the time, and then there's different symptoms that you can write down, and it's all right there in a really detailed and focused and simplified way for you and for your doctor. Because I can't tell you how many times I would feel okay for a couple of months, and then I'd start feeling miserable again. And I'm like, what did I do these past couple of months? How have I been living? And there's just no way to remember all that stuff. And so this was kind of my answer to that.

[38:52] Katie Chandler: Very smart.

[38:53] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I'm going to check that out.

[38:54] Sarah Kay Hoffman: That's really helpful.

[38:55] Amy Sherman: Yeah, because to your point, it's like the food, but then it's like, what else is happening? And yeah, you're not going to remember how you're feeling on the daily, and.

[39:03] Katie Chandler: That'S a great tool.

[39:04] Amy Sherman: That's amazing that you have that.

[39:05] Katie Chandler: That's a good resource. I feel like we could probably ask you 1 million questions about this and just keep going on and on and on.

[39:12] Sarah Kay Hoffman: I feel like we're like, just I.

[39:13] Amy Sherman: Know we have to go back because I'm like, wait, I have so many.

[39:16] Katie Chandler: More questions, so let's just quickly touch again on your line of supplements. So you have the journal that you just mentioned. You have the digestive enzymes, the betane HCL.

[39:27] Sarah Kay Hoffman: What else do you offer? Yeah, the supplement line is only about a year old now, but the reason I did is because I was spending so much on everyone else's supplements, and I'm like, okay, well, I know exactly what I need and what the community needs, so I'm just going to do it. They're not on a gutsyroll.com. They're on gut healingsupplements.com. And I have a digestive enzyme which is called breakdown. I have herbal bitters because I truly believe in them for naturally increasing stomach acid and helping our bodies to just be able to do it on its own over time. And that's called digest. Plus, I have tummy soothe, which is my immune. It's my IgG immune. I'm obsessed with it. It's actually a powder, so you can add it to anything. It was unflavored. And then we have a brand new we just released last week is Collagen, which is one of my favorite things for all things, but not just gut health, but wellness in general. And then a magnesium, of course, it's called Move now and then just like two more that are they're just kind of like complementary to certain people or lifestyles or routines. One is moromega. It's really the inflammation reducer. It's a one to one ratio of DHA and EPA. So a lot of women love that one too. I don't miss a day with that one because inflammation and then the other one would just be my multivitamin.

[41:00] Katie Chandler: Congratulations. That's amazing to have that line and offer all of it. What is your favorite type of magnesium? What is your magnesium? Is it glycinate citrate? What do you use?

[41:11] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yes, it's glycinate. I think people are always surprised that I didn't use citrate. But honestly, that's really for emergency uses. It's explosive, and I don't want that. I have magnesium in the glycinet form, and you take it at night because the idea is that it promotes better sleep, which is foundational for my lifestyle pillar, but also more gentle as far as then your ball movements the next day. And I absolutely love that. Our whole family.

[41:44] Katie Chandler: I love magnesium glycinate, by the way.

[41:47] Sarah Kay Hoffman: I will say because this is one of my top questions people ask me all the time, why don't you have a probiotic? And I will tell you why. The reason I don't have a probiotic is because I have always used the just thrive one, and I saw no reason to create one. The reason is because I still believe at the end of the day that probiotics are very subjective and I really educate people on strains and species and understanding what can work for you. For me, to create a probiotic was like I felt like it was doing a disservice to people because I never want people to feel worse. And sometimes I swear by the just thrive one, but it's not for everyone. And I don't believe that there is one probiotic that's just like, for everyone can backfire.

[42:37] Katie Chandler: So you take yours every day, but.

[42:41] Sarah Kay Hoffman: That'S what works for you.

[42:43] Katie Chandler: It doesn't work for everybody.

[42:45] Sarah Kay Hoffman: It's not that a probiotic doesn't work for everybody. It's which one and which strains and species you're using might not. And also, if you have SIBO, when I was in the thick of SIBO and I was in massive flare mode, I didn't take a probiotic either.

[43:00] Katie Chandler: That's a dolphic.

[43:02] Amy Sherman: If you're constipated, should you be taking a probiotic? Does that help with that or does it not? Or is it not related?

[43:08] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah. So again, that's going to go back to the strains in the species and what you choose and also just how it's working with your body. And so, again, it's like working with.

[43:22] Amy Sherman: A doctor, nutritionist, integrative doctor to figure out what's right for you, essentially.

[43:28] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Yeah.

[43:28] Amy Sherman: Which is why that food journal I.

[43:30] Katie Chandler: Think would be so great.

[43:31] Sarah Kay Hoffman: It's called healing blooms within. It's very intentional, too.

[43:35] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I would imagine. You just have to be consistent with it and then you can find out a lot of information. Okay, well, this has been amazing. I feel like we have so many more questions and we'll have to have you back, but thank you so much for joining us and just giving us kind of the one on one on Gut Health, and I'm glad it's become such a big topic. I feel like Gut Health, so many people we've had on the show have talked about, even if they're not experts in gut health, how important gut health is. And I think it's a little bit of such a vague term that sometimes it's hard to know what that means, what you do about it. If you somewhat feel okay, like, what should I be doing? So it's just really great that you're out there educating everybody. And just for our community, make sure you're following at a gutsy girl on Instagram because she has so many good pieces of information on there.

[44:24] Sarah Kay Hoffman: Thank you so much for having me. I will come back on the show.

[44:27] Katie Chandler: Thank you.

[44:28] Amy Sherman: Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Episode 105 - Hormone Havoc: What are Hormone Disrupting Chemicals and What You Can Do About It? A Conversation with a PhD, Founder and CEO, Jenna Hua, of Million Marker (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 105 Hormone Havoc: What are Hormone Disrupting Chemicals and What You Can Do About It? A Conversation with a PhD, Founder and CEO, Jenna Hua, of Million Marker.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:24] Jenna Hua : You.

[00:28] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters family. It's Amy and Katie, and we are joined today with Jenna Hua, who is the founder and chief executive officer of Million Marker. Million marker is the only DTC test for BPA phthalates. I'm saying that correctly. And other EDCs EDCs are endocrine disrupting chemicals, which I just Googled. Jenna's extensive experience as an academic and health advocate led her to founding Million Marker in 2019, shortly after completing a postdoctoral fellowship with Stanford University School of Medicine. Jenna Hua, PhD, is an environmental scientist who started the company when she realized environmental toxins kept causing her fertility problems. More studies show that prenatal exposure to these chemicals can cause neurodevelopment and hormone issues in children. Plus, these chemicals can complicate pregnancy. Throughout her career in academia, jenna has researched and published numerous studies that largely focused on citizen science, general health, and the impact of food consumption on a person's well being. Jenna holds a postdoctoral fellowship in chronic disease prevention from Stanford, an Mph and PhD in Environmental Health Sciences from UC Berkeley, an Rd from Greater Los Angeles Veteran Affairs Healthcare System, and a BS in Nutrition from Berkeley. So welcome to the show, Jenna. We're super excited to talk to you about this topic. It's really fascinating. So thank you for joining us on Nirvana Sisters today.

[02:00] Jenna Hua : Thank you so much for having me. Amy and Katie, I'm very excited. I really like your show, and I think I really appreciate everything you guys do, really advocating for wellness and optimizing health, particularly for ladies.

[02:14] Katie Chandler: Thank you.

[02:15] Amy Sherman: Thank you so much. So before we get into all of our questions and conversations, we just want to start with our Nirvana of the week, which is a moment of joy, something that brought us a smile to our face this week as we reflect on the week. So, Katie, I'll kick it off to you.

[02:30] Katie Chandler: I would say my moment is without a doubt that we launched our 100th episode yesterday. And while that in itself was the moment of joy, we actually recorded that episode just earlier this week. And that was my real Nirvana, because when Amy and I, we don't too often sit down together and reflect and take a moment to just go through the process of all of this. And when we did that, it was really nice and long overdue, and it brought me a lot of Nirvana, the whole thing. It's a great week. It's a big week. What about you, Amy?

[03:04] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I agree.

[03:05] Jenna Hua : Big week.

[03:05] Amy Sherman: And I would say my Nirvana is the same. I'll also mention that along with our 100 episode, we launched Nirvana Sisters Merch, which is really fun. And it's just great to see people's reactions about all of our products that just launched. So really excited. Really full of lots of mini nirvanas. What about you, Jenna?

[03:23] Jenna Hua : Congrats for me. Thank you. It's about getting one of our grant review back. So at Miller Marker, we also apply for a lot of NIH National Institute of Health Research grant because the whole EDC topic and just in general, how your environment impacts your health there's, still require a ton of research. So we continue to submit grant proposals. We just got a review back, and then it was a pretty positive review. So we're hoping that grant will get funded in a few months. So that was my excitement for my Novana for this week.

[04:02] Katie Chandler: That's huge.

[04:03] Jenna Hua : Congrats.

[04:03] Katie Chandler: That's fantastic. That must be very exciting. Speaking of, I mean, we have so much to talk about because this million Marker is really a brilliant concept, and I think we should just start at the beginning. What does Million Marker do and kind of what motivated you to create million Marker?

[04:22] Jenna Hua : Yeah, at Million Marker, we trying to provide a direct to consumer mailing urine testing, allowing people to understand their body burdens of hormone disrupting chemicals. So it's a pretty simple test. You pee in a cup, send it to us. We get that UEP analyzed. Right now, we test for 13 chemical metabolites. That includes BPA, BPA, Alternative, phthalates, parabens, oxybenzone. All of these are hormone disrupting chemicals. We also ask people to complete an exposure journal before they submit their urine samples. That way, we audit your lifestyle, looking into what actually contribute to your exposures, and then pinpoint where you can reduce your exposures so that you can avoid these chemicals. Then we also offer counseling, answering people's questions to making sure that they're on a healthy journey to detox.

[05:14] Amy Sherman: That's really cool. So is the report that you get, like, you see all the details from your urine and what types of chemicals are showing up there?

[05:22] Jenna Hua : Yes. So the report will include the chemicals that we're testing, 13 chemical metabolites. We let you know your levels, how you compare with our existing users, and how you compare with the national average. We'll show you low, medium, or high and trying to pinpoint okay, for example, what kind of product or what kind of behavior that you have kind of committed that potentially lead to this kind of exposure. So then it's very actionable. So to make sure, then you know what to do so you can reduce these exposures.

[05:56] Amy Sherman: That's great, because I feel like you hear about this all over the place now, right. But it's hard to know how it's actually affecting you. So you can clean up all these things in your house, but you don't really know if you're addressing it. So I think that's brilliant.

[06:09] Jenna Hua : Yes. We think it's this personalized approach because it's really important and also for people to understand what's exactly my exposure oftentimes we don't really know because if you and I have different genetics, even if we have the same amount of exposure exposed to the same thing, our body would respond very differently. So unless you test yourself, there's no way of knowing. And oftentimes also, even for myself, I think I have lived a pretty clean life because since I started studying this and I have been paying attention. But once I started testing myself, I realized there were a few things. There are things that I completely didn't even know about. One example was one of the vitamins I was taken, the vitamin capsule was not made, I guess, up to quality. So the capsule was actually made of a ton of phthalates, which is a plasticizer chemical. And if I didn't test my fulself, I would never know. And I actually bought that vitamin from Whole Foods and it was a bit shocking to me. Another example was when I first started Million Market, I was packing all the kits in my garage. It turns out it was the plastic packaging tape. It was also made of phthalates. So I could see my levels completely went off the roof. And once I stopped taking that vitamin, it completely drops down. So just like things like that you think you're doing right. You just don't know until you actually test yourself to figure out, okay, this is where I can't actually make a change. Otherwise you wouldn't know.

[07:52] Amy Sherman: When you got that back and you learned about the pill and the tape, was it you were high in that certain chemical and then you looked at your ingredients of certain things? Or how did you identify it was those two things that's so interesting.

[08:05] Jenna Hua : So I was able to identify because this is the importance of when we ask people to document their exposures throughout the day. I see it's kind of a tedious work, but that's the only way to kind of help you figure out because these chemicals are literally everywhere and oftentimes all we also tell people we don't want to get people super overwhelmed because it is overwhelming. But that's the only way to kind of figuring out where your exposures are. And then you're trying to avoid as much as you can because the bottom line is that these chemicals have no business of being your body. Like they only do harm, there's no good. So you just need to try it as much as you can.

[08:49] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's what I want to clarify for our listener. What are these chemicals doing to us? When we say they're endocrine disruptors or hormonal disruptors, they're affecting our thyroid, they're affecting fertility, they're affecting your estrogen levels. Is that correct? And so on and so on.

[09:09] Jenna Hua : It's literally everything. We can take a step back thinking about what are hormones like? Hormones are our body signaling molecules. They literally govern every single bodily function we have. Fun, sleep, metabolism, growth, fertility, your mood, everything is governed by hormones. And then your body signaling system, the hormone system, actually work as a symphony. So if you go to orchestra, you listen to a symphony. If your keys are out of sync, this music wouldn't be beautiful. It's the same thing. And these hormones, they kind of work like a lock and key. So the key has to fit in a lock and when you have these hormone disruptor comes in which messes up either the signaling or messes up this whole lock and key function. So then you would have these mismatched things and then you have this whole salute of downstream impact, which could be impacting your mood and your metabolism. So we see people with hormone balance, for example, in female, you would see for example, irregular period fertility issues, same as in men, impact both men and women and weight gains just so many things. And I think the other thing people tend to overlook is that if you expose to these things, you wouldn't experience extreme symptom the next day. Maybe in occupational setting, if you get super high exposure, then you would have feel the symptom the next day. But what we really worried about for these chemicals are like we have these super tiny, like really low dose exposures. You get exposed a little bit, but you get exposed day in and day out. So you just don't know when your cup is going to get full. Eventually down maybe ten years, 20 years from today, you would have a condition that could be contributed by these things. And so that's why we really want people to start pay attention. You do what you can and you want to eliminate these exposures as soon as possible and as early as possible, as much as you can.

[11:27] Katie Chandler: Yeah, I think it's interesting to your point of how you're not just going to wake up the next day and say, oh, I must have been exposed to BPAS too much yesterday. It is a gradual thing that happens over time. And maybe one day you just wake up and you realize like, oh my gosh, I'm not sleeping very well, or this feels off all the time. Or you just slowly start to not feel like yourself anymore. So this is a really great tool. It can be preventative. It can also come in and help someone get things back in order with their life. I find it fascinating. I think a lot of us see things like BPA free and paraben free and so on and so on. I would love to just if you could just quickly list off just a few of those names that we've seen, we've read, we've heard, but we don't know what they are, so that we can now attach them to this and understand.

[12:26] Jenna Hua : Yes. So BPA is pretty much the poster child of hormone disrupting chemicals. A lot of people know because we actually see that BPA free label. But when you ask people like, do you know what BPA is? And people often don't know. They just say, okay, I know it's bad for me because I see BPA free label all the time. But what to pay attention of is that BPA free? Okay, first of all, there's no regulatory agencies actually monitor and check whether a product is BPA free or not. It's completely up to the manufacturer to put that label on, so there's no verification of that, whether that's actually BPA free or not. In Europe, there is regulatory agency to actually check whether this is BPA free or not. And the definition is if a product have less than, say, zero five milligram per kilograms of this molecule in this chemical in the product, it's considering free. It's kind of like the trans fat free labeling. But if you think about an MBPA, often happens on receipts, grocery store receipt, gas station receipts, or the canned linings of canned food or canned drinks. So if you think about it, even if it's regulated at 0.5, that kind of level, if you drink a lot of canned drinks, if you eat a lot of canned food, it's still going to accumulate. So it doesn't mean it's completely free. That's number one. The second is since BPA has been banned for almost more than a decade now in baby products, thanks to conscious mothers. The manufacturers, however, started using BPA alternatives, which is not labeled anywhere. So this could be right now, the most commonly used is Bps and BPF. They can literally swap a molecule and swap, like, a substrate of that molecule, changing the ladder from BPA all the way to BPZ or any combination of that. So it could be Bpaf, BPB, something that all of these alternatives are actually just as toxic as BPA, if not more. So there's just, like, no way of knowing, okay, is this BPA free? Is actually BPA free, or it's involved in other kind of Bps. So our strategy is, okay, just avoid plastics in general, because BPA and phthalates are the major plasticizer chemicals that's using plastic. So if you can't avoid as much plastic as you can, then you kind of just pretty much eliminate this. And trying to avoid canned food, I think in general, in shopping, BPA free label is still better than not having that label. There's a little bit of assurance there. But in general, just try to avoid the whole category if you can. And the shape of the BPA molecule. I think another thing just to kind of ring the bell for people to think about BPA is if you Google the BPA molecule and then you Google the estrogen molecule, they look really, really similar. They look almost identical. So one function of BPA once in getting into your body is it mimics estrogen. So your body will mistaken BPA with estrogen. And if you think about it, if your body mistaken BPA with estrogen, maybe you'll produce less, or maybe it will produce more and they wouldn't fit. So then it's causing other issues and that's why, okay, yeah. Trying to avoid as much as possible.

[16:01] Katie Chandler: You hear a lot about estrogen dominance now, and this is a contributing factor to that, I'm sure. So, yeah, it's very interesting. And go ahead, Amy.

[16:11] Amy Sherman: I was going to say, why are manufacturers using this in the first place? Is it like a preservative? Like what does it actually do? And why if they're not using that, they're using one of these alternative swaps like you said. What's the deal with that?

[16:25] Jenna Hua : A couple of reasons. First is BPA is actually a pretty magical molecule. BPA is a molecule, that the chemical that makes plastic shatter proof. That's brittle plastic and it has property. And the second is, as you mentioned, a preserving function. So by coding that can lining, for example, if you have acidic food in can, it wouldn't react with the rest of the can. And it also preserves food much longer. And it's cheap, it's just really cheap to make. That's why we have been using it, same as thali. So thali is another chemical that we test. It's also a major plasticizer. Thalate is just what make plastic really flexible. So think about your ceram wrap. A lot of time in the past, ceram wrap is kind of like made of phthalates. One tip we often also tell people is never ever microwave plastic. Some people don't know. So heat actually increases the releasing of these chemicals. And before I've seen people like, okay, first of all, they use a plastic tupperware, have their food in there on top of the tupperware, they put on the ceram wrap and stick the whole thing into the microwave. So it's like then you just get a multiple exposures, okay? You get that shadow proof plastic fun BPA, and then you have the CERN wrap fun phthalates. Phthalates are also used in fragrance a lot. So that's another tip that we often tell people, okay, when you purchase your personal care product, your house cleaning product, your laundry detergent, avoid fragrance. Always read your ingredient label. Avoid that because phthalates is a major ingredient that used in fragrance and it's also a hormone disrupting chemical that it actually blocks testosterone. So we've seen a ton of study in both human studies and animal studies that showing phthalates really impact male fertility.

[18:34] Katie Chandler: And will it say on the ingredients list, phthalates?

[18:39] Jenna Hua : So phthalates are usually not labeled on the ingredient list. It's often just fragrance. It's a major ingredient in fragrance. That's why we wanted people to avoid fragrance at all cost, okay? And to be even safer, even if natural fragrance. So we often get questions asking, what about my fragrances made of essential oil? Right? Not saying essential oil is not beneficial, but there's no way of verify whether this essential oil is actually made up to great. And apparently 50% our world supply of plants is only enough to make about 50% of the essential oil on the market today. So a lot of essential oils are actually synthetically made, and there's just like, no guarantee that what's actually in this essential oil. And there's not enough rigorous testing being done in products. So especially, say, if you're pregnant or trying to get pregnant, we always recommend people to avoid fragrance, whether it's natural or synthetic. Just avoid fragrance just to be safe.

[19:53] Katie Chandler: It's crazy that there's no system in place for these things to be monitored. I mean, I realize with the amount of commerce that this country has and it's coming from all over the world, that it would probably be nearly impossible to do. Maybe that's why it is probably impossible to cover it all. But just like with supplements, supplements are not FDA approved. And you have no idea what you're putting in your body with that. When you think it's a trusted source and it's something that's meant to help you, it's not always necessarily the case.

[20:19] Amy Sherman: Yeah, I saw on your Instagram page just around fragrance, that unscented is also a fragrance, which I had no idea until I saw that. And that's really scary because I've been buying unscented forever because I don't like those perfumey smells, and I thought they were bad for you. But now I'm hearing unscented is also a flavor. Can you talk about that a little bit?

[20:41] Jenna Hua : Yes. So unscented is actually a scent wow. To go with fragrance free.

[20:46] Amy Sherman: It's fragrance free. Okay.

[20:49] Jenna Hua : So it's very misleading because I think a consumer have obviously gone smarter because we know we need to protect ourselves because FDA is not doing the job. But manufacturers also got smarter, right? So unscented is one thing, and then they started using wording like aroma instead of like fragrance. So you'll just see like aroma, but it's the same thing. So fragrance free is the best way to go.

[21:18] Amy Sherman: Okay, and what about when it says I was using and I actually just switched all my stuff, but I can't remember a brand? Maybe it's like tied free and clear.

[21:32] Jenna Hua : Interesting one. So free and clear is better than the regular, for sure, because at least less of these ingredients are used. But besides these major kind of could potentially have hormone disrupting chemicals, a lot of the bigger brands, they could also have other problematic ingredients in addition to, say, fragrance. Fragrance is like the number one. We want to people do that. But if you want to go one step further, other things to look for is trying to avoid petroleum based ingredients. Because petroleum based ingredients would have much higher contamination during the manufacturing process that you wouldn't know. Again, without testing, there's no way of knowing. But one really easy way to recognize any petroleum based ingredients is look for these cap letters on your ingredient list. So Peg PPG, like all of these cap letters, are usually made of petroleum based ingredients. So that's something to pay attention off. Another one is we often also flag is to glycerin is usually used many times glycerin is made of petroleum, but vegetarian glycerin is not. So if you have the choice of buying an ingredient with vegetarian glycerin versus the regular, I would go with the vegetarian one because it's less prone to contamination.

[23:04] Katie Chandler: Okay, so this is a stupid question.

[23:06] Amy Sherman: But is petroleum the same thing as petrolatum?

[23:11] Jenna Hua : Similar. They're like a fun source.

[23:16] Amy Sherman: I use every day on my lips which has petrolatum is obviously not good.

[23:21] Jenna Hua : It's the same source I would have choose say if you use a shia butter that's probably better. Say use a little more like coconut oil. I would have choose that, yeah.

[23:33] Katie Chandler: Okay. It's so interesting and I can see how it can be very overwhelming because you can just look around your house and probably see a million. As I'm drinking out of this, I'm wondering is this safe? It can be very overwhelming, but that's the genius behind million marker is that you have this testing and walk us a little bit through the process. If someone sends in their urine, they do the testing, they get the results and then you have the option to do the coaching as well where you will walk through and say let's take this, this and this out of your life, et cetera.

[24:07] Jenna Hua : Yes, in the last three years we have been doing this whole self serve model that people can enter their journal through our app and then submit in the test. We give the people the option if they want to schedule a call after receiving our report, we'll go over the report, we'll answer any questions they have. But what we realized from that model is that people actually want a lot of handholding, even fun just entering their journal items and fun afterwards they want to check in with us. So we're actually changing our service to more of a white glove service that will actually walk you through your journal and then also walk you through your report so people can purchase a kit online in the future. Then you schedule a quick like 30 to 45 minutes zoom call with us. We actually go through your day of your products and your lifestyle with you. Document that, then you submit your urine sample. We take the first morning urine sample because it's the most concentrated kind of urine and then it's also what's being used nationally or kind of a standard. So then we can actually compare your levels with other ascent as well as the national average. Then we get that analyzed. Then we actually audit your lifestyle, audit your products, and when you get your report back, besides what I mentioned before, understanding your levels, we also have a really comprehensive product audit that we point out out of all the products that you're using, actually every single product that you reported that you're using. Is there any problematic ingredients in there? Not just the ones that we test, but any other one that we would usually flag to make sure you pay attention on. Then you will know. So next time you buy a product, then you can buy a better one that avoid these other problematic ingredients. Because we can't possibly test for everything, but anything that have been reported in scientific literature that's potentially harmful, we want to let folks know. So then next time you can vote with your dollars. I mean, ultimately, consumers shouldn't be responsible for these things, but unfortunately, we have to do that. So then we want to let people know. So next time you buy it, avoid these things.

[26:35] Amy Sherman: So do people do this test? Do they repeat it, like on a yearly basis or something? Because I would think you'd want to kind of see, I took this out. Now what am I showing?

[26:45] Jenna Hua : Yes. So we have quite a few, many customers come back for second testing. So then just to confirm what's going on, our goal is we're hoping this could become like a routine test. My dream would be actually see this type of body burden testing, kind of like your biannual dental checkup. You clean your teeth twice a year. And I think this is a really good way to remind people, hey, you need to clean up your lifestyle too. That this is a really nice reminder if you can do this every half a year, just to show, okay, where you are with your body burden and how do you clean up. Because I think this type of testing or asking people to change their lifestyle, it's not only good for your health, good for your body, it's actually really good for the environment too, because, again, you're avoiding plastic, you're avoiding petrochemicals. There's a lot of quite a bit of impact when it comes to sustainability too. So we probably, none of us, and especially people who are trying to conceive and having kids, you don't want to live in a polluted planet, you don't want your kids to live in a polluted environment. Right. So by doing these things, I think it's like many, many wins not only for your health, but also for the environment as well. So I really want to see this become like a biannual kind of test that we can implement in the future. And hopefully this will become something that insurance will cover. Kind of like the biannual dental checkup that everyone will have access to and then start pay attention on.

[28:33] Katie Chandler: Yeah.

[28:33] Amy Sherman: And also just how you would do a yearly blood test or twice a year blood test. It's the same sort of thing that you should be doing every time, right?

[28:41] Jenna Hua : Yes.

[28:42] Katie Chandler: I had a question regarding the test results. You said that you compare them to the national average. So then is there an optimal range of where you want to be with these things or do you want to have zero exposure or is that just impossible?

[28:59] Jenna Hua : Really good question. We want to beat people to be as low as possible. There's actually no safe levels. There are no safe levels for these chemicals. The reason we're comparing with national average is to give you some idea of where you are. So how we compare is based on percentile. And so if you are lower than 25th percentile, we categorize that as low between 25th to 75th, that's medium and above 75th, that we consider that as high. But you should be trying to go below or even non detectable below 25th percentile as much as possible. But talking about the national average, there are limitations with this national average. I actually think we're one of the countries that's actually doing really well when it comes to biomonitoring. So biomonitoring means that we have programs that monitor people's chemical exposure through these biomonitoring program. Right now our national biomonitoring program is set through the CDC, through the National Health Nutrition Examination Survey, where they actually screen for more than 200 chemicals. And the ones that we screen is only part of it. The limitation of enhance of the spinal monitoring program is that the government only screens about 3000 people every other year, not the same people year over year. So you can see the limitation. So 3000 people in the entire US. So if you want to compare, if you think about your gender, your age, your ethnicity, what you have like five people look like you in a database to compare of. Right? So that's a limitation. And then the second is because this is a true kind of snapshot of time, because not all the people are tracked over time. There's no way we can tell the same people with these exposures what happened to them down the road. So another goal for million marker is if we have a lot of people doing testing and doing these continuous testing, we'll be able to see the potential long term impact in humans and then how can we improve and then that could be beneficial for the future generations.

[31:23] Katie Chandler: Yeah, that's amazing. That's really unbelievably profound what you guys are doing. The concept is really brilliant. I know that you are focused a lot on helping those with fertility issues. So I'm just curious what kind of success rates that people are seeing when they are able to remove these toxic chemicals and things from their life.

[31:46] Jenna Hua : We don't have enough data to actually show clinically, like with hard numbers, whether detoxing can actually help people achieve successful pregnancy or live birth. That's obviously the ultimate goal. And I think this is what we're trying to do eventually. But I think fundamentally, even though we know about the impact of these chemical literally for decades, the National Institute of Health work in general through the government, we haven't really invested in any money in terms of looking at the potential causal impact and how to do interventions to track. Clinical outcome. There was no money in this. It's unfortunate. And I think this is also excuse that oftentimes chemical companies that uses like why are we not banning these things? And then the argument is that oh, we don't have any causal studies because we cannot show that these chemical actually causes that miscarriages causes infertility. We cannot say that, we can only say they're associated when in reality it's.

[32:55] Katie Chandler: Just because there's not enough data that shows because there haven't been studies, there hasn't been enough money behind studies to get it done. Yeah, that's interesting. Exactly, it's unfortunate.

[33:05] Jenna Hua : It's unfortunate. The other thing is it's almost impossible to do this type of study to looking at causal study because you cannot expose to a pregnant mother to these chemicals and observe what's going to happen. Right. It's just unethical. You cannot do it. So our thinking is if we can show by detox, by reducing people's exposure that we can actually improve these clinical outcome and track people over time, then that's kind of like almost like a backward reverse way of proving there are causal impact. Then we can use this to push for better policies and better and more testing. So that's what we're hoping to do. And that's actually the grant I mentioned that this week, my nirvana, we got a good score and that's exactly this type of intervention studies are what we're trying to do to demonstrate hey, this works.

[34:06] Katie Chandler: Congratulations on that. I'm like a research geek so I always look at the NIH and everything. So that's really exciting. That's very cool. I'm excited to see where it goes. I'm sure it's going to be a bit of a process to get it all in motion and everything but we'll be following it without a doubt.

[34:21] Amy Sherman: I have a question about the test too. Do people use this for kids? Because as you're talking I'm like I want to test my whole family. Have you seen other people using it for kids?

[34:30] Jenna Hua : We're being asked right now our thinking is if the parents consent, yes, we can test for kids, but on our website we say 18 and above. But we have been asked whether they can test for kids that we definitely need parents consent. I think a lot of researchers worry is it's hard to interpret the results when it comes to kids and others. We even have people asking about like can we test our pets for these chemicals? It's because we don't have enough data. So in an enhanced database for kids, for adults we have about 1800 out of 3000. The rest of them are kids. But kids it's tricky because kids are growing and their growth status, it could be really different, it could really impact their hormone levels. So if you're an infant versus your adolescence, not only your hormones are different but also your growth stage, your detox system is not fully built. And that's also another reason that we really trying to pay attention on the younger, what we call it, developmental timing really matters. That means the younger you get exposed to the potential detrimental impact these chemical will have on you more. So we really want to start in uterine. Even when people planning for pregnancy, really thinking about it starts with the egg, it starts with the sperm. You should try to optimize your egg quality and sperm quality before you're getting pregnant and also start practicing this healthy lifestyle. And then you carry that throughout your pregnancy. And when your kid is born, your kid will already have a head start living a healthy lifestyle. And not only developmental timing matters. So then in uter, exposure really matters and then throughout the growth stage. But it's also we think it's like you literally get the biggest bang for your bucks because you're affecting literally generations. Because another thing we have observed in research is that these chemical can impact your future generations. That means your grandparents exposure will show up in you. Like your exposure will actually show up in your grandkids.

[36:55] Katie Chandler: Wow, that's wild. That's alarming too.

[37:00] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it is alarming. Okay, so before we do our wrap session with you, we want to get a couple tips that you have for detoxifying your life. Just some general things that someone's listening and they're going, well, what can I do right now, I'm going to do the test, but what can I do? What can I start changing in my life? Do you have some tips for that?

[37:19] Jenna Hua : Yes, absolutely. Number one, figured you would obviously avoid fragrance because I think when it comes to products, anything you purchase, this is like the easiest way to change. Just pay attention on eliminate fragrance, find all your personal care products or your household cleaning products. It's the number one. It's also just the easiest. The second is looking to your kitchen because a lot of our exposure besides products is coming from food. So what are you using to store your food? Right, use stainless steel containers or glass containers. Just get rid of all the plastic tupperwares and all these things. Use a b wax wrap instead of like seren wrap and you can use it multiple times. And again, it's also something really good for the environment and then also help you detox and also think about one thing we didn't really talk about is we have this whole other category of chemicals called persistent chemicals, also hormone disruptors, but because they're persistent, they stay in your body for a long time. One of the category a lot of people have heard is the Forever chemical PFAS. Right. And we want people to get rid of your teflon pens, like change to stainless steel, change to cast iron or ceramic. Because this category of chemicals, once you get exposed to it, literally stays in your body for a long time. You can't get rid of it.

[38:51] Amy Sherman: Wow.

[38:52] Jenna Hua : Again, if you change your pots and pants at home in your kitchen. You don't need to change again for many years in the future. Especially if you use a cast iron you can literally pass on to your kids. So you just need to do it once. So this investment is very much worth it. So we want people to, hey, do a kitchen detox that get rid of these things and do it once. Then again, you eliminated a lot of these exposure. And the next thing is try to get a water filter. Any filter is better than no filter. But if you can have your hands on a reverse osmosis water filter, that's sort of a cash at all filter. Because our water is also contaminated, let alone sort of the city water system. Now we're also having a lot of household buildings or even new buildings that changing copper pipe to PVC pipe. PVC is a plastic that's actually not good. There's a lot of argument like why we even have this policy changing it. But I mean, that's worth a whole other chat. But having a water filter is really important because you're drinking water all the time, right? And then the last thing is try to eat out less, eat more at home. Because first of all, you have fully control of what you're cooking, what are your ingredients, try to eat as much organic as you can. I know there is budget reasons for many people, but if you can try to do that because pesticides, many pesticides are also hormone disruptors. So if you can do that, that would be great. And eating out less also helps you eliminate a lot of, for example, less packaged food or eating less at the restaurant also helps you avoid. Because another thing we found out is through some individual testing is if you eat out in restaurant, oftentimes restaurant will cook with gloves. Those rubber gloves are also potential contaminants that can potentially contaminate the food. And you don't know, they will probably put like a hot soup in a plastic container and they will use other things. So you would just get that exposure. Even the takeout container is also a big one. I was just thinking that during the pandemic we literally see people's levels spiking out because people are eating so much takeout. So if you're eating at home, you have full control over that. So I think that's my top tips for detoxing.

[41:34] Katie Chandler: Yeah, those are excellent. That's excellent.

[41:36] Amy Sherman: So helpful. And for our listeners, I saw, we saw in your website you have an approved products list, which I think is really helpful. I actually went on it this morning because I just switched over to branch basics for all of my cleaning and I saw it was on your list. So I was like, okay, yes. So I thought that was really helpful. So for our listeners, all of those things are really helpful tips. And then if you go onto the website, you can also get a sense of what products are recommended by Million Marker. So before we get into our wrap session, where can everybody find you?

[42:07] Jenna Hua : Please find us on our website, www.millionmarker.com. Sign up to our newsletter. We're trying to keep people posted regarding our progress or any new research, any news around these topics. So sign up. We're also pretty active on social media. Instagram just million underscore Marker. Also Twitter. We trying to generate a lot of education content, not just around Detoxing, but anything same as you guys, anything that comes to do with wellness, because you can't just Detox. You literally need everything else in check to help you with Detox and support your healthy lifestyle. So talking about nutrition, talking about physical activity, talking about stress, talking about gut health, everything. So we're pretty active, and we're trying to generate good content to support people for their healthy lifestyle. So definitely check us out.

[43:07] Katie Chandler: Love it. Thank you. Thank you for everything that you're doing. It's such an amazing company and business and everything that you've started. So we're grateful that you're here. So why don't we kick off with our wrap session because we are very curious few things. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack aside from Detoxing and everything?

[43:30] Jenna Hua : My hack, I guess, is like soup. I make soup almost every day, all kinds of soup, partially because I think it's very soothing. And then the second is water is also really important for Detoxing. So you kind of need a lot of these transient toxins that we test, and then we talk about you literally pee them out. So you need water and also think, like, you have to have enough water for good skin health, too. So it obviously have to do with your health and obviously have to do with beauty.

[44:08] Katie Chandler: Yeah, absolutely.

[44:09] Amy Sherman: That's a great one. What's your favorite soup? What's your favorite soup that you make?

[44:14] Jenna Hua : Any soup is good soup. I make simple vegetable stock or to meat based stock. I do a lot of that, and I try to learn from, I guess, different cultures. I'm Chinese, so there's a big part of Chinese culture is also super into soup. So it could be meat stock. It could be like beef and then like bone broth. A lot of bone broth.

[44:37] Katie Chandler: Love it.

[44:38] Jenna Hua : But I also love Italian soup, veggie, and I love chili, too, so it's not exactly a soup, but I kind of feel like that's kind of like a soup.

[44:49] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it sounds good. You're getting me in the mood to make a good soup, too.

[44:52] Katie Chandler: I know I have. Okay for breakfast.

[44:57] Jenna Hua : Yeah. Savory broth breakfast. I love savory. Breakfast was like one broth.

[45:03] Amy Sherman: Okay. The next one we call our five minute flow. So here's the scenario. You just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you. They're five minutes away. What's your quick beauty routine? What do you do? Like, what do you put on. What are your Holy Grails? To get ready and into that car on time.

[45:21] Jenna Hua : I go pretty easy if I don't need to. I don't really use makeup or cosmetic or anything. I just use a face serum. That's it. Like some oil. Really easy. Yeah, one pump, put it on that's, it good to go.

[45:37] Amy Sherman: What kind of oil do you use for dying to know what oil you use?

[45:41] Jenna Hua : So recently I was working with this brand called Hue and Grace. They're pretty cool brand started by Ben and Sarah. They had quite a bit fertility struggle themselves and they trying to provide a hormone save product. Recently I have been using their product. It's quite easy, really, like their face serum and night serum. So I've been using that. And in general, it was also through some of the testing we've done and also just looking into products. Using oil is much better than using lotion because of the simple ingredients. Usually if you get an oil, you can do as simple as very few ingredients. So when you have fewer ingredients, there's less contamination. And the formulation wise, it's a lot harder to formulate, say a lotion versus oil because then it requires more emulsifier, like surfactants and all these other things into lotion. So that's sort of like also my sort of rule of thumb when it comes to products, it's just like as simple as possible and put it on easy and then get going.

[46:56] Amy Sherman: Nice.

[46:56] Katie Chandler: Yeah. I love it. All right, and our last one is how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

[47:03] Jenna Hua : Exercise is pretty important. I think a work is really hectic. I mean, everybody's life is very hectic these days. Being able to do some exercise is really important. I try to do yoga almost every afternoon. That kind of get me relaxed and also really prevents my back pain. Before I started doing yoga, I literally had a really severe back pain episode that I couldn't walk for three days. Like, literally couldn't walk for three days. Wow. And then once I started yoga, it hasn't happened once, and it's just really beneficial, I think, for both mind and body, especially for ladies who are over 35, you start losing muscles, and strength training is quite important. And I felt like yoga is not only you get that Zen, but you're actually training. You actually get this strength training. So it's like very cost effective and very efficient. I also try to do quick run in the morning just to get a little bit sunlight, get a little bit fresh air. That helps with productivity. So these are the two things I try to do. But I have to also say that it's always a struggle. You often feel like you want to be lazy and don't want to get out of bed and don't want to go to your yoga class. It's a struggle. But I think once I'm there and once I do it, I felt like, yes, I need these things to achieve my daily in the mana.

[48:35] Katie Chandler: It's absolutely I know people don't too often go work out, and when they leave, think like, oh, I wish I didn't do that. You always leave, right?

[48:47] Amy Sherman: That's so good. Well, thank you so much, Jenna, for joining us. This was really eye opening and really fascinating. And we might have to have you back for part two because I feel like there are just so many questions that we'll have our listeners will have after hearing this. So thank you again. We're really excited to do this test and to start implementing some of these practices. So we really appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

[49:10] Jenna Hua : Thank you so much for having me.

[49:13] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

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Episode 104 - Breathe In, Breathe Out: A 101 On Breathwork With Steph Magenta (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 104.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Unknown Speaker 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Unknown Speaker 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. This week we are going to be covering breathwork is a topic that we talked about a lot, but we haven't had any experts on yet. So we are super excited to have Steph magenta with us today. Steph is a breathwork facilitator and teacher. She's the co founder of integrative breath facilitator training school. Steph places great importance on the integration aspect of any somatic practices which have the potential to elicit significant significant change or breakthrough for the person experiencing the work. Step is a licensed bodywork therapist and shamanic practitioner with a background in substance misuse and addiction research. She also holds over three decades of work in detox and healing from running her own juice bars and plant based cafes. Steph is passionate about healing through somatic practice, which informs her grounded heart centered and trauma aware approach to the practice of breathwork. She's an award winning advocate of sexual freedom advocacy and has trained and Dr. Betty Martin's wheel of consent. And she is currently training and TR e trauma release exercises.

Unknown Speaker 1:38

So we are excited to have you here with us. Steph, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm very curious about what's about to unfold. And it's always a delight to chat with people who are also invested in wellness.

Unknown Speaker 1:51

Yes, we're so excited. This is a topic we talk about a lot. And we're just excited to have you here to give us all the expertise because we are both very much into breath work and our listeners, I think would love to know kind of all the basics around it. But before we get started, we are going to do our nirvana of the week which is really just something that brought us joy this week made us happy. Put a little smile on our face. Good time to reflect. So I will let Katie kick us off with that.

Unknown Speaker 2:20

Thanks. I think my nirvana of the week was without a doubt seeing my daughter in her school play this last weekend. She has been working so hard for the last two months. And pretty much the whole family came in Amy and her boys came in and the grandparents came in and we went to three shows. She did. She performed for one, three of the public and she did a great job. And it was just fun. She's very comfortable on stage. She lights up on stage. It was really a joy seeing her artwork. She's only nine. So it was it was pretty. I was very proud of her. It was a great moment. What about you? Me? Yes. And I will attest to that because I was there in real life. And she was phenomenal. She's a star. She did great. So congrats, Katie, I would say mine this week. There were a lot, which was nice. But I was just saying to Katie, before we got on that I was at an event this week, an all day event. And it was a no cell phone event which before the event I was quite anxious. But then when I left my cell phone on home, and I was at this event all day, it was truly incredible to be without a phone all day. It was so nice. I felt like I was in the moment I was present. I was having conversations with people I was enjoying the weather. And I mean sad to say that we can't live without our phones. But like honestly, it was a really good reminder to leave my phone at home more. So that brought me some joy this week. What about you staff?

Unknown Speaker 3:50

Well, in the deep end, I

Unknown Speaker 3:53

like you. I've had many and thank you for sharing yours. I always love hearing about other people's appreciation and gratitude. So that's a big part of my practice. I suppose the first one to say is that it's my son's birthday today. He's 23. So that

Unknown Speaker 4:10

is a kind of Nirvana moment where I'm going wow, you know, he's come through a lot. And he completed his degree in psychology during lockdown. And yeah, young people were put under a huge amount of pressure. So I feel really proud of who he is. And I'm happy because the sun is shining here in the UK for possibly the first day.

Unknown Speaker 4:34

And he's out enjoying it. So I get thing that's a significant one for me. That's wonderful, happy birthday to your son. Thank you. Alright, well let's get started because we use this term breathwork a lot and I think Amy and I both have kind of done small breath work self taught that we'll see that we learn from from social media for people like yourself that are but we've never really dove into

Unknown Speaker 5:00

The subject ever talk to an expert about it? So I think a great place to start is is why? Why try it? And why does it work? So well?

Unknown Speaker 5:10

I love this question, because it's like such an elevator pitch question in a way, and I go, Oh, right. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 5:17

And that was the first thing I want to say in response to that is there are so many forms of breath work. And so when you say why breath work, there are multiple answers to that question. Because on a day to day basis, breath work, as many people will know, and some may not is one of the most quickest, most accessible, easiest ways that we can support our nervous system coming back into regulation. So the primary answer to why breathwork is because actually, it relates to what you shared about your Nirvana, because most of us are overstimulated these days through constant availability, accessibility, stimulation, comparison, etc, etc. So anxiety is rising, depression and mental health issues arising. And the more we can find the ways to use embodied practices to help us actually ground and center ourselves, the better for the kind of breath work I teach. If you say why breath work is open, mouth connected breathing, on a day to day basis, it's not what we want to be doing far from it. But for expanded consciousness and trauma release, it's really, really powerful. So why breath work, because it's a readily available tool where we don't have to ingest anything or go outside of ourselves to actually present what's happening for us and learn how to self regulate.

Unknown Speaker 6:42

It's very interesting how powerful the use of breath can be. I know there's so many different types of breath work. And I didn't even know that there was.

Unknown Speaker 6:52

It was like sort of specialized like yourself, but you said you treat to help heal trauma and things like that teach rather to help heal trauma. So

Unknown Speaker 7:03

maybe we should start with the basics. Like, what is what's a simple way that we should be reading on the day day? And so really great question, because I already mentioned, you know, on a day to day basis, we want to be nose breathing, coming into what we call functional breathing, as opposed to dysfunctional or dysregulated breathing, but an awful lot of people breathe in dysregulated ways, then their mouths might be open, they might be not getting the benefits of nitric oxide that only comes through the nose, maybe there's not as much oxygen that's crossing the blood brain barrier going to the vital organs, which when we're mouth breathing, because it's kind of more shallow breathing in a way isn't happening. And also the kind of nose breathing and the slowing down the breathing. To answer the question about what do we want to do on a day to day helps us

Unknown Speaker 7:59

regulate the heartbeat, it helps when we can slow down the breath with intention, we can bring onboard the parasympathetic part of our nervous system. So the part that's involved in rest and digest the part that knows how to feel safe and connected socially and isn't constantly in fight and flight or perception of threat or hyper vigilance, which many of us go into when we're not feeling safe in the world. So the day to day breathing that we want is to learn how to breathe primarily through the nose, and how to slow down the breath so that in times of stress, when our breath will typically increase in pace, and become more shallow, we can go, Oh, I'm feeling anxious, I'm going to just stop, take a breath, maybe put a hand on my heart, feel the breath coming into the belly, it doesn't want to be coming from this upper chest, which is kind of anxiety patterns of breathing.

Unknown Speaker 8:56

Thank you for saying that. Because I have to say, I would imagine most people are breathing through their mouth because I learned about this a few years ago, because I have similar migraines. And when I was talking to someone about it, a doctor, they were like, think about your breathing, because you're probably not breathing most of the day. And I noticed that now, sometimes if I'm talking, or if I'm just sitting there and I'm feeling a certain way, I'm like, wait, I'm not actually breathing. I'm holding my breath. And I notice I'm more aware of it now. So I'm intentional. And I'm like to your point, try to slow down and breathe through my nose. But I noticed a lot of people are just kind of like holding their breath. And now that we're saying it just for anyone who's listening, think about the way you breathe, because that's to your point, a basic principle of just breathing through your nose that I think most people aren't doing and it really makes a huge difference if you think about it, but I feel like half the time I'm talking and we're just holding my breath and holding my breath and you just kind of feel off and then you take a step back and then you breathe through your nose and you're like, Okay, let me calm down but it's such a basic thing that no one

Unknown Speaker 10:00

thinks about.

Unknown Speaker 10:09

And, you know, in part, I think it's because we've got used to having to kind of fight for our space and fight for our words to be heard, because we've, we've lost the capacity for presence in relational experiences, you know, so you'll notice because you interview people, but if you're interviewing somebody, and they're nervous, or they're not regulating their breath, maybe their speaking is rapid and fast, and you'll be kind of feeling it in your own body, like, Oh, I really want this person to take a breath.

Unknown Speaker 10:39

I really want to take a breath, you know, as you're speaking to me, because I work with this all the time in myself noticing, I can in the pauses, slow down my breath with intention. And again, just give myself that capacity to calm myself. Because when we're in situations that bring about slight nervousness, because they're new, or we don't know the people, which is this, you know,

Unknown Speaker 11:03

it's normal that people might feel some nervousness or anxiety. And so just becoming breath aware, literally, the practicalities of slowing your breath, of breathing through the nose of feeling the breath in the belly, will alleviate some of that kind of sympathetic nervous system activation, which then can spiral into kind of much more rapid breathing. And then of course, it's a chain reaction anyway, because then everything starts to move in the body. Because it's all related. You know, it's like our blood vessels are changing. Our heartbeat is changing our palms go clammy, you know, things happen in the body when we're in a sympathetic nervous system, activation, sympathetic, being that fight flight part. So even if we're nervous in a conversation, that might be starting to happen. But if we don't know that, that's what it is, we can be like, Oh my God, why do I feel so strange? Oh, my God, why am I feeling lightheaded? I feel dizzy, I feel clammy. And those enormous, sorry, normal nervous system responses in that part of the nervous system. So once we know that we can work with it. Yeah, I mean that people have to train themselves to breathe through their nose, because I find that I sort of had to train myself,

Unknown Speaker 12:20

I would say so yeah, I certainly had to do that. For me, a lot of the time it was at nighttime, I had kind of mild sleep apnea, or I would wake up with a very dry mouth or not feeling well rested. And so I started training my sleep at nighttime, my my friend got me onto it, because she was using micro porous tape at nighttime, which is a bit it's not, don't just use any old tape. If you try this, by the way, it has to be the pharmaceutical grade micro porous tape that is breathable, and you only need a tiny piece. But she would go to bed, she'd put her earplugs in her eye mask on the tape over a mouth. And she was in a relationship. And I used to laugh and say, Oh my God, you know,

Unknown Speaker 12:59

think of this kind of no intimacy there. She was getting herself in this position where she could really like take care of what she needed to go into deep rest and sleep hygiene is fundamental to good breathing as well. So I tried to and although it felt really challenging the first few nights that I tried it because I didn't like this sensation of having something on my mouth, I noticed that I would wake up, I wouldn't be waking in the night to go to the bathroom, I would be feeling well rested. I would be dreaming and sleeping deeply. And it just felt good. And I carried on and I feel as though I've definitely retrained my breathing now to breathe more in and out through the nose. And if I default from that, I noticed it very quickly.

Unknown Speaker 13:45

That's interesting. I have mild sleep apnea as well and everything you just said like the waking up and going to the bathroom frequently in the middle of the night and everything. It's bothering a lot lately, I was nervous to try the mouth taping but I'm going to try it now. So so it's worked well for you. Oh my gosh. Honestly, it's I mean, it's widely been researched and studied and a lot of dentists now use it because a lot of children will be kind of doing stuff and mouth breathing and it changes the physical structure of the jaw and the face and the teeth and oral hygiene as well because these noses are designed with filters designed with the nitric oxide to help us breathe well. And to do what they're supposed to be doing to get that oxygen through into our system in more effective ways. When we mouth breathe and it's much more shallow our breathing and it's only reaching the top part of the lungs and it's changing the structure of the face. Absolutely without doubt and you only need you know a thin little strip maybe just like five millimeters wide that you can put down this way so that you can still start off by you know, you don't need these great big pieces. It doesn't need to be something that feels really challenging. Yeah, cuz I'm so glad you said that. That it's just in the center because

Unknown Speaker 15:00

I've heard people talk about this. And I envisioned it to be your whole mouth, which like, feels scary. But if it's just in the middle, that feels less intimidating. So that's really good to know. Yeah, I mean, I do. Now I use, if I use it, I don't have to use it very much now, because I have retrained my breathing. And I noticed that I can just automatically sleep more deeply. And occasionally, I'll bring it back out again, if I feel that I'm not breathing well, but people have lots of different capacities for breathing, it might already be compromised by mild asthma or something like that, in which case, you obviously need to consult a physician or an expert who can help you. But otherwise, it's kind of like, yeah, you put the piece there and you're effectively still breathing through the sides of your mouth, but people can feel psychologically more comfortable. And the first put it on I did put it on the whole part. And I had lots of kind of triggers and flashbacks. That didn't feel so great. However, I persevered. And it worked. And I would recommend it. You just don't need huge pieces, though. You know? Yeah. Now that's good to know. Okay, Steph, so do you have some a couple practices that our audience could use, I know I saw your Instagram, you have all these great, different things we can do. I know ones, the hob wrath ones, the box breathing. So maybe there's a few that you could give our listeners, whether it's something they can do at night to kind of get situated and relaxed or during the day, if they just need a little breather like couple little couple little hacks.

Unknown Speaker 16:31

Well, I guess it depends on what you want it for. Because you know, you talk about at night. And I think at night, basically, the most simple thing to do there is simple is simple coherence breathing. So an equal length breath in and out and in and out through the nose. But for some people, if they're experienced, experiencing tension and anxiety, focusing on the breath can amplify that. So I always say to people just do what feels good, adapt to what feels good. And just practice because we don't expect to get good at anything. without practicing. We wouldn't expect to be good at sports, we wouldn't expect to be good at, you know, playing piano if we weren't practicing. And yet breathing is something we just take for granted. So practice, and go slowly and be kind to yourself. So coherence breathing would be just as I said, an equal breath in and out. But when I first came across breathwork, one of my friends pointed this out to me because we were paired up in an exercise and she said to me, are you aware that your exhale is significantly longer than your inhale. So if we were in this exercise, and I was breathing in, I'll give you an example, I hope your listeners can hear and it would be like

Unknown Speaker 17:47

the exhale basically would be kind of two to three times as long as the inhale. And if I tried to bring it into balance, it started to create stress and tension and my breath came up to my upper chest. And what that was because at the time I was doing this I was in burnout from the running of the some of the businesses use described in my intro. And I think it was my body's way of trying to come into parasympathetic, rest and restore from being more accustomed to being in fight and flight, sympathetic activation. You know, go go go stress achievement, busy, busy, busy. And, and so when you start to notice your breath, you go, Okay, so my breath is trying to do that, so I can work with that. So one simple way for people to actually create calm in moments of stress would be to breathe in through the nose, for example, for a count of three or four or whatever's comfortable, and then to use a longer exhale. So intentionally an exhale of say, eight, or breathing in through the nose and on the exhale, creating a sigh of physiological saya.

Unknown Speaker 18:56

And then yes, you're expelling through the mouth, but the physiological side which again has been researched and studied, activates the parasympathetic activates the vagal nerve increases what called vagal tone, which is our capacity to move through different kinds of layers of emotion and experience and feeling. Another really good one for vagal tone is what they call the breath. So you inhale, and then on the exhale

Unknown Speaker 19:27

and you're making a humming noise. What that does is on the one hand, the humming is quite literally stimulating the vagus nerve as it comes down through the neck. But also, the nature of it is a really quick hack to slow down your exhale, because if you both tried that, you would find that if you're humming for as long as it's comfortable, your exhale is automatically become longer. So that's kind of straight Katie.

Unknown Speaker 19:58

Um,

Unknown Speaker 20:00

Is that right?

Unknown Speaker 20:04

Yeah. And it's funny, because kids can play with that, you know? Yeah, that's a good one for kids. D exhale with the spy. I've heard about that one. And I have done it in moments of just being like flustered or on the go, and then you know, and then I hopped in the car and I'm trying to regain my composure, I try that I go.

Unknown Speaker 20:27

And it does, if you do it multiple times it, it relaxes you, is I also heard there's something to the breathing in, almost to fully fill your lungs and then taking another short shot of a n and then sign out is that something? Yeah, that's the kind of double breath intakes where you take a breath and you might breathe in as deeply as you think.

Unknown Speaker 20:57

Right.

Unknown Speaker 21:00

Anytime you're breathing exactly, and you know that that can be a more energizing breath as well, though, and you know, I mentioned at the beginning about depends what your end goal is. So if you're, if you're kind of feeling sluggish, and you need some energy, and I posted this one on my page recently, there was one called the heart breath, where you're standing with your elbows, your arms are at right angles to your body and your, your palms are up loosely.

Unknown Speaker 21:26

You know, just holding them out in front of you and you're inhaling.

Unknown Speaker 21:30

And you're pushing the arms forward and turning the hands over as if you're shaking off water from your fingertips on the exhale. If you do that for a few minutes.

Unknown Speaker 21:41

That really starts to energize you. But people shouldn't do that if they've got some of the Contra indications for breath work, because it can make you lightheaded very quickly.

Unknown Speaker 21:52

And there was a fantastic woman who did a lot of tantra work who worked with Mindvalley. Sam is a Dora who sadly took her own life and passed a few years ago now. And she used to use a version of that hot breath where she would bring her arms down and go yes, yes, yes.

Unknown Speaker 22:13

Yes, yes. To bring in a kind of affirmation with the breath as well. So there are many ways that you can use the breath according to what you need, what you want, how your energy is, you know, and what your current mood is, what your requirements are for the way that you want to either up regulate or down regulate your nervous system, as we call it, because people are different, aren't they? Yeah, I love that. And it's funny, because a lot of the things that I've done a really to relax, but I didn't know that you could use breath to actually energize yourself. So that's actually great. What are some of the contraindications for people that should not be doing breath work? Well, I'm going to reframe that question a little bit. So the contraindications for people who shouldn't be doing open mouth dynamic forms of breath work, because normal functional breathwork is pretty much good for everybody, in fact, is essential. At the open mouth breath work, which is changing our physiology and stimulating the sympathetic nervous system and is connecting every breath will send us into that fight flight response. When we go into a fight flight response, we are discharging a lot of carbon dioxide from the body because there's much more

Unknown Speaker 23:34

than you would normally discharge. So oxygen is coming in. But on a more shallow level, it's not getting delivered through the nitric oxide in the nose, or through the balancing of co2 across the blood brain barrier and to the vital organs because it's basically the same as it would be if you were activating the sympathetic to go into confrontation, fight or flee or flight running away from something. So you're not the same things are happening in the body. But that's preparing you to use up that oxygen by getting away or fighting. And if you're not doing that, because you're lying down in a breathwork session, the oxygen will then bind to the hemoglobin in the blood and restriction start to happen. So you get restrictions of that oxygen getting to other parts of the body. So if you've already got seizures, heart conditions, pre existing lung conditions, high blood pressure, what else low blood pressure, if there's a fainting history, if you're in a delicate pregnancy, if you've had recent major surgery, you've got PTSD, untreated or a history of psychosis, and there's a few other country indications then you don't want to be doing things that are putting you in that highly activated state or that are creating restriction and tension in the body and reducing the flow of oxygen to where it wants to go.

Unknown Speaker 25:00

because then you could elicit seizures or heart issues, you know, people with arrhythmia as well shouldn't be doing that kind of breathing. So those kind of people do come to my breathwork sessions, but they're always given a modified practice. Their advice to get people in this should be taken very seriously, by the way, you know, people go to a breathwork session, and the facilitator is doing connected breath, work, open mouth, breath work, isn't talking about contra indications isn't getting you to sign a waiver that you've taken responsibility isn't telling you how to modify your practice, then walk out the door. Because, you know, come across people who go to these breathwork sessions that are really encouraging catharsis and, you know, come on, and you can do this. And people are in what we call respiratory alkalosis, with their hands in cramping, and they're going and you know, they're really uncomfortable, and they're in a hot sweat. And they're being told that it's because they're holding on to something in that life, and they should just push through it and, and their own boundaries and their own body autonomy and their own self awareness is being ignored in favor of, you know, some cathartic response that actually isn't very healthy. And so I think, you know, that's for me why it's also so important to have trained breath workers who understand, first of all, what's happening physiologically, but also what's happening psychologically and emotionally, because trauma will come up, because the things that we suppress that still in the body, that have come through moments of sympathetic nervous system activation, tend to surface again. And so people can find that they go into spontaneous trauma release a bit similar to what we can go into in Tre, actually. So shaking, quivering, tremoring, jaw, all sorts of stuff that gets stuck in the body. Because we're not like animals who go and find a water spot and shake it all off after they've been, you know, hunted or scared. And we tend to hold it all in, you know, put on a brave face, don't make such a show of yourself, you know, get over it. All those kinds of comments that we get told about things that have actually impacted as deeply just get stored up in the body. And then we get a moment to kind of stop, activate the sympathetic, and those things start to come up again, because the body is always communicating with us. Sorry, that was a bit of a rant. But it's interesting. I've never heard that. No, and it is good to know. Because, you know, yeah. Yeah. And that, and that is your specialty is working with people with the open mouth breathing to tap in and to help heal trauma. Yeah. And such is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. I always say to people, and they say, but I thought you shouldn't breathe through the mouth. And I say, Well, you shouldn't on a day to day basis, and it's very helpful to see them as very different modalities, because day to day functional breathing, which is imperative for you know, good sleep, good digestion, good health, immunity, etc, etc, is completely different to the way that we can unlock trauma and open consciousness in different ways through breath, you know, where we can activate the body's natural systems, you know, DMT, and things like that, so that we can have awarenesses that we wouldn't normally be happening, you know, that, that we are starting to, they call it switching off the default mode networks in the brain. In other words, the habitual response patterns, something happens in these sessions, like over and over and over again, I've seen people heal remarkable stories that have been stuck in their bodies for a very long time that perhaps they wouldn't get to through regular slow nose breathing, for sure. So it's a it's a tool for trauma release. But it isn't only for trauma release. It's also for fun, it's also for exploring consciousness. It's also for, you know, what's what's in my body, what needs to come up, and it could be the tiniest thing, you know, I've spent 40 minutes in a breathwork session, though that not much is going on. And then towards the end, a little tear has come from my eye, and I've released a memory in the most gentle way. But it's never come back and troubled me again after that in the same way, quite literally. That was my story with a memory from when my children were little. And I didn't even know that that was happening in the breathwork session, I just carried on breathing in that way, had this awareness come up right near the end and released it. And literally since that day, it's it just it's like, I made peace with it. And I think wow, you know, things quite miraculous really what I see happening for people. Yeah, it's a really, really impactful way to deal with trauma versus, you know, other methods. So it's another tool people can use if they are struggling with some kind of trauma they want to release. I wanted to go back to the nose breathing because I had two questions. So I've heard or I learned at one point of

Unknown Speaker 30:00

brow about putting your finger on your nose and then breathing through one side and then putting it on the other side. What does that do? Is that or is that a good practice to do for? Again, relaxation? Well, what I want to say there is, you know, I mean, that's typically a yogic practice the alternate nostril breathing is a yogic practice the,

Unknown Speaker 30:20

what do they call it? Front, Z, Ma, I can't remember what it's called. Anyway, I used to do that in my yoga back in the day before lockdown.

Unknown Speaker 30:30

I don't pretend to be an expert on every breathing practice across all kinds of different types. So I can't say all I know is that it tends to be activating the different sides of the brain. And and the people that I've been taught by who've done alternate nostril breathing will say, when you notice that one side is particularly blocked and locked up that it might be that you're aware that that hemisphere of the brain is not as open and clear as it might want to be. But you know, that sounds a bit woolly? Because I don't know is that yeah. Okay, good, good answer. And then what is I always hear about box breathing? What does that mean?

Unknown Speaker 31:07

That's one that is typically used by the Navy Seals and people in combat. And again, in a way, it's just another way to bring awareness to the breath of box breathing is quite literally, you imagine that you are breathing around a box, and you breathe in for, say, a count of four. And you hold for a counter for you're going on the top of the box, you breathe out for a counter for,

Unknown Speaker 31:30

and then you hold for a count of four. So you're studying the breath, and you're also giving the body the chance to build up carbon dioxide, increase oxygen uptake, and you're it's supposed to include increased mental clarity, performance, et cetera, et cetera, which is interesting. Military people use it. And yeah, you know, it's funny, the first time I even realized with breath work was was I don't know, probably five years ago, when I couldn't fall asleep. And I'm a pretty good sleeper, and I was just like, couldn't fall asleep. And I just Googled something. And I found,

Unknown Speaker 32:06

I think it's 47478 breathing. And I started doing that and train myself. In the beginning, it was really hard. And this is when you, obviously, you know, but for the listeners, you breathe in for four, hold it for seven, and then exhale for eight. And it was pretty hard in the beginning, but I really trained myself every night to do it. And then I was getting to a point where I would do one cycle of it and be asleep. And in the beginning, I had to do like three or four cycles, just to kind of like, and I found that that kind of breathing helps me because you weren't just breathing, but you were also counting. So it's a little bit of a mental exercise too. And you just, I mean, it was a great one to, to practice and learn over the years. So that's another tidbit for our listeners. Yeah, yeah, fantastic one that you brought in there. And sometimes I think it's just bringing the mindful awareness to the breath, you know, like you say, is it the counting? Is it actually noticing what's happening in the body and distracting the mind, you know, our ego mind, our brain mind is very, very busy a lot of the time. So some of these embody things, you know, when people are struggling in breathwork sessions to let go, I just say, if you find that you're getting distracted by you know, the shopping, or what you've got to do later on it, just come down to the breath, you know, just come down to focusing on the experience of the breath, entering and leaving the body, the sound of the breath, the texture, whether it's cool or warm, and just

Unknown Speaker 33:30

take a moment to just slow down, you know, I mean, that's what we need in this life, isn't it kind of to slow down to reconnect with, you know, stillness to come more into this inside that moves away from constant stimulation and constant achievement and productivity? Yeah, that's a great reminder that we all need daily and stuff. Thank you so much for your time. You've been very generous with us on your I know, your Fridays are very sacred to us very incredibly grateful. But before we let you go, where can listeners find you if they want to want to work with you and do prep work with you? Well, the the quickest place is probably my website, Stephen magenta.com. Because that links to my social platforms as well. I'm very active on Instagram, as you know, because I think that's how you found me as integrative at integrative breath. But sometimes people go, Oh, what is that but if you just type my name and Steph magenta, and you know, you'll find the main page I do have a backup account because somebody tried to clone me once in that very annoying way.

Unknown Speaker 34:35

Stressful, but the backup accounts got about four posts on it and practically nothing there. But my other pages is very busy. So those are the best places and then we have a breathwork I run a breathwork training program for facilitator training as well. And that's integrative hyphen@breath.com.

Unknown Speaker 34:54

So much I hope everyone that is listening is now breathing better, because I know I am

Unknown Speaker 35:00

I've been paying attention this whole time and I'm like, Okay, let me breathe through my nose. Let me breathe through my nose. It's actually really helped me slow down today. So yeah, thank you so much for being with us. It was so nice to meet you and we're so thankful for your time. Likewise, thank you both a pleasure.

Unknown Speaker 35:17

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 102 - Lymphatic Bliss: The Ultimate Detoxifying Massage With Erika Tempro & Mimi Ge (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 102.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Unknown: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we are thrilled to be here with two amazing people. We're here with Erica tiempo who is a practitioner of holistic medicine who has been practicing massage since 2007. After a successful career career sorry, after a successful career working in both clinics and spa setting, she opened detox massage right here near me in North Bethesda, Maryland. And I've been to Erica as well as her associate and amazing practitioner Mimi, many times, highly recommends and I've been begging her to come on the show to talk all about lymphatic massage because I think it's so incredible. And I think a lot of people have been sort of hear the word but they don't exactly know what it means and how it can benefit them. I know I've been telling Katie next time she comes here she's got to see either Erica or Mimi, because it's so healing. So anyway, welcome to the show. Erica, we're so excited to have you here. For our listeners, Erica has a wealth of knowledge about the body through her experience and studies from her bachelor degree in physical therapy she obtained in Brazil, she does all types of different massages, but specializes in lymphatics. So welcome to the show, Erica. And welcome to the show. Mimi, we're so glad to have you both here chatting with us all about massage, one of our favorite topics.

Unknown: 1:50

Thank you for having me on. And maybe it's a pleasure to share some of our knowledge about emphatic drainage, we love what we do. And it's truly a pleasure for us to to share, right. And I mean when we do and having clients every day learning about this feeling better and healthier. But love seeing results. Yes.

Amy: 2:14

Amazing. So before we start, what we'd like to do in the beginning of the show, is to do a, what we call our nirvana of the week was just something that brought us joy this week could be something big or small, but something that put a little smile on your face. So I'm going to kick it to Katy to tell us what her Nirvana the week was.

Unknown: 2:35

Thank you, Amy. I'm sitting here racking my brain.

Amy: 2:39

I know it's been it's been a week. It has been

Unknown: 2:41

an absolute week. You know, there's I mean, don't get me wrong. There's been many Nirvana's this week. But sometimes they kind of just like slip into the back of their brain on a late Friday afternoon. I I think I actually just had a really nice little Nirvana and nice moment with the lovely woman who's now become like part of our family that helps me with our children. She's are up here and she's she's become part of the family. And I've noticed that she's kind of struggling this week, like the rest of us for some reason. That seems like a weird week, all around. And we just had a heart to heart and I just kind of wanted to tap into like a she Okay, and what's going on and you know, just sitting down with her and making sure that everything is fine. And that she's it. It's just like a bonding moment, I guess when you know, which is a little Nirvana, especially for someone that is new to your family. She has been in our family for just a few months now. And we have a great relationship. So I think I think that was a nice moment that I just had, it was literally in the last half an hour. It was again at the sweet it's nice.

Amy: 3:44

Yeah, to have a connection moment. Okay, so mine is kind of funny. So my little son, my little he's 13 My younger my youngest son, Jules key. My my husband and I had an event at my son's school the other night and we were out for like an hour we came home and we came home at like eight o'clock. It was early, but I walked into Jones's room and he was like, sound asleep. Like he just was so tired. I guess he had sports that day, whatever it was, he was tired. And he was asleep. And I was like, okay, whatever. He ended up sleeping all night long. So he probably slept, I don't know, like 13 or 15 hours or whatever it was, and he woke up in the morning. He's like, a slept so much. Last night. I feel amazing. And I'm like, See, I told you when you sleep good, you feel good. And then your whole day is better. And he just like clicked for him. Because you know, teenagers, they never sleep. They're doing their thing. And like, he'd like all of a sudden realize the value of having a good night's sleep, which I always tell my boys all the time. So it's just like a funny, cute moment between him and I. So that's one of my Nirvana's from this week. What about you Erica and Mimi, we'd love to hear what brought you joy this week?

Unknown: 4:53

Oh, wow. I have two daughters. One it's 15 and one, two and a half. So this week was truly special. You know, like it's a little thing, but my little one, she just decided to do her on potty training. Who's doing great is a Mama Mama and each Oh, where she was going to the toilet. So it's a truly special moment. Wow. Yeah. What about you Mimi, I was just telling Erica that yesterday actually last night, my mom was complaining about stomach ache. And I live with her and I take care of her she's a bit outwardly. And I use lymphatic drainage technique on her and help her with stomach

Amy: 5:43

healing. Okay, so let's get into it. Tell us about lymphatic drainage massage, what it is, why it's beneficial, all of all of that stuff,

Unknown: 5:53

of course. So lymphatic drainage massage is a type of modality by the work that helps to eliminate waste toxins of the body, and also stimulate the lymphatic system. So during the massage, we use the strokes we push the fluid towards the lymph nodes, lymph nodes, we have our movement, the body, but we have major groups located over the neck, armpit, barely groin area, and behind the knee. So our the strokes we send to those directions. So occasionally out that fluid, after the drainage crosses the filtration process, it goes back to the main circulation. So one of the functions of the lymph nodes is to drain, remove out the toxins whenever they leave for LIFO notes that tax let's say best selves, but she is Viers cancer cells, they work for us, fine for us, and helps with the immune system. So regulates the amount of fluid we have in our body and also works with the immunologic system. So each time we're under inflammation infection, the sciatic system is helping us to eliminate all those bed cells.

Amy: 7:26

And what Yeah, it does make sense. And I've done it and I know the benefits just because of the way that I feel afterwards. It's very different than like, what you would think about a regular massage. It's very light and relaxing, but it's just it's a different sensation. So why, like how often should someone get this done? Should they do it instead of regular massages? Should it be in combination with regular massage?

Unknown: 7:50

So let's say sometimes you do combine techniques. Let's say someone who likes to get deep tissue works, sometimes going straight to the muscle, which so deep is not the best thing to do. We like to drink first. And then we work more in deep layers of the muscles. So we drain and then by layers, we start to release that tension. So how often should it get on? I have clients we do have clients, they come here every week, sometimes every other week, but I would say at least once a month, why they come here on weekly basis. Sometimes they have chronic conditions such as lymphedema. Lymphedema, it's a condition that helps a lot after breast cancer. So as they remove the lymph nodes, like say the armpit it compromised the paddock system. So it creates buildup of fluids. So men really we find another route to send that fluid. Let's say one side is compromised what we do, we push the fluids towards the health side. So we do have clients that come as you know, once a week, and it all depends of your needs goals, target budget, I'm so fascinated by the lymphatic system, I have a chronic autoimmune disease and I have noticed that just recently, showers always make me feel better. And I know it sounds kind of silly, but I think it has something to do with my limp because I'll be going about my day and I'm kind of achy and my body feels very fatigued. And then I do my dry brushing and I get in the shower and I can be like a completely different person afterwards. I mean, it can really like turn my day, right side up. So it's just kind of amazing to me is that is that just the body holding inflammation in my lymph system is maybe not flushing it out to the best of its abilities. Without a little nudge, it does sound like that. Yes. So let's say the lymphatic system works properly. As we move, the more we move, the more you'll emphatic system will work properly. So let's say, shower, no, during this show do yourself, if I finish, you just thought certain areas of your body's going to release that tension. As we release that tension, you get more blood flow, more likely, you're going to eliminate some of the inflammation, and you get more blood flow more oxygen in your tissue gets healthier, better. So there are like I said, we do have those all over the body. But if you work in those major groups, you know that we mentioned here, let's say over your neck, behind your ears, okay, on your armpit. And sometimes we do that during the shower, like you mentioned. So you're not thinking about you doing that. So naturally, you're stimulating those lymph nodes. Maybe that's why you feel way better afterwards. Yeah.

Amy: 11:16

What about the dry brush? Katie was mentioning, she uses that. And I've used that before. Is that the same idea? Like how does that help? Because I know it always kind of feels like a bit energizing. But what does that specifically do?

Unknown: 11:28

Oh, my gosh, it's great is going to stimulate the lymphatic system, it's going to be very superficial. Okay, we highly recommend you to do yourself. Lymphatic Drainage torching those areas prior there, Dr. prosze. So first, you know, because the river runs to the ocean, imagine how the fluid of your body going upwards going towards your heart. So the final destination of all this fluid comes to above your collarbone. So we suggest everybody to start from here. So as you as you clear, your chest, those areas is going to be way easier to receive everything. So we start right here doing yourself lymphatic drainage above your wallet, Vaughn can below and then you go behind your ears, it doesn't matter if you go clockwise or counterclockwise. As long as you move in those areas, that's what we want is like a very like stretch. So and then you go to your armpit and just move in there, get close to the breast, just show both sides, open up your chest, you feel working for long hours in front of your test, make sure you open up and you stretch your chest, one of the really good technique is that there's a muscle right here, if you just kind of tuck your finger in and kind of grab on it and just move it around. That's a really good tight, very, very effect and loosen up the muscle and the fascia. And that really helps with the drainage. You do that

Amy: 13:17

first you do those, like that's the sorry, that series first and then you would dry brush because that kind of opens you up you're saying

Unknown: 13:26

absolutely. And also besides the dry brush, you can use a washer, a body washes, so this way you can it does help to bring the fluid towards those areas. Let's say you and your leg, you bring everything to the wind. You're going to work on your arm, you bring every change everything to armpit, so but it's the first just open up channels. I have a valid question. Excuse me, it's like this big and it's wooded and it has all of these interesting shapes. And I've used it a few times. I'm more I favor the dry brushing. I don't know why I think it just feels good. And it's fast and it's easy. But and also I did see that like tapping those certain spots is helpful as well like the collarbone, the armpits, behind the knees and the ankles that I saw before I started driving. Yes, you can use your fingers. You can use even any type of brush, you can use it face guasha out those things you can use to stimulate those areas. Okay, as long as we don't put too much pressure. Okay, so that's, that's, that's an important piece. So you do it gently and it does speed matter fast or slow. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter as long as you apply a lot of pressure. Don't hurt yourself. Okay, and it doesn't matter if you go to the lecture the mic just hanging for a few minutes if you feel a little bit tender. Just hanging there in a All children minutes it goes away.

Amy: 15:02

Okay, interesting. And so Mimi, you were just mentioning about helping your mom who had a stomach ache. And I know that I've read or heard that lymphatic drainage also helps a lot with digestion and bloating. And I just know from being in there, every time I come in, I'm bloated and I leave and I'm not bloated. So can you talk about the like, how it helps and what you can expect from a digestion standpoint,

Unknown: 15:25

stomach area gets really tight, because what do we do we sit a lot. And so there is a stagnation. That's why, you know, a lot of people experience slow digestion bloating. So by applying pressure to certain areas, you loosen up the tension, move with a colon to its shape. So you're you're moving toxins, you're you're improving the circulation of blood flow more blood flow more, and if there's more blood flow, the person will move faster. Yeah, that makes sense. I need to try to do what's more in my stomach, because I feel like I'm always bloated.

Amy: 16:07

Yeah, no, it would be so good for you, Katie.

Unknown: 16:12

What is the difference between modeling massage and lymphatic massage, I like to start with drainage. We always start with the drainage, we eliminate the water retention, the toxins or the waste. And after that ingestion becomes more soft. If the tissue not it's easier to mold. So I usually combine a few modalities in order to control someone's body. So the different types of strokes but we always start with the drainage, that's the first thing gets the priority. getting healthier first and being let's say, beautiful, skinnier. The main, the main reason the main function of lymphatic drainage is to be healthier. Yeah, so you can actually you use modeling to kind of like slim down, I guess. And does it help us cellulite? Yes, you can lose after three to four inches in one session, it then can serve the person how much water retention have a lot of people they love to get it down for photo shoot before red carpet. Okay, later, you're not feeling the best. So it's, it's a quick fix. So we highly recommend people to hydrate have lots of water before and afterwards. And in order to maintain the results. Reduce the amount of South Korean processed food, sugar, sugar, and you know, put in makes everybody more inflamed, more bloated. So those are things it's a no, no, if you want to keep up with your results. Yes. And more female have reaction towards wheat than male. That's another thing that I noticed. I think it's really interesting. Yeah, it's, it's interesting that you say that because I was literally just thinking in the last couple of days that I'm going to start eating more wheat again. I've been off of gluten for so long, because and I'm just like, oh, maybe I can introduce it back. But probably not the best idea. You know, we see the reaction disease gluten intolerant, but the same client goes to Europe, and they can eat bread. They can stuff up with their and have no problem. So the way that GMO in this country really? It really mess with our system. Yeah, I have clients, they they cannot have yogurt here. They travel to Italy, they eat it there they are fine. So there is something going on here the way they process the food.

Amy: 19:03

It's so true. Katie, and I talk about that all the time. Because yeah, when you're in Italy, and you have pasta and wine and bread, you feel fine. And you're not bloated. I mean, it's unbelievable. And then here it's like yeah, all of our food is process. It's a problem. Well, this is so interesting. I mean, we could go on and on. But let's get to our rap session. Just to give you guys some fun questions on this. This Friday night. Prior to cocktails, Katie's already drinking her Rosae so let's do it. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack besides lymphatic drainage, the sash

Unknown: 19:39

I always carry my bag, a little bit of almond oil and the little guasha for my face and a few essentially, I love peppermint and lavender. So I always like to have a few drops in my almond oil. into myself, massage relieves the tension of my shoulders, my neck, and my scalp is something that I have all the time with me.

Amy: 20:09

That sounds nice. Good little pick me,

Unknown: 20:12

me, me. Since I'm a much more physical person, I like to stretch. I feel like ah, after I stretch, I feel better, like the helps with my fluid retention, you know, helps me feel better more than ever. So I kind of, I'm gonna tell me a secret. I went to the massages who with me a long time ago, and that she loves baking soda and vinegar she uses for a lot of things, right? Maybe I do I do. I use those cleaning. You know, they the very natural clean. If you put them together, they bubble up and then makes the scrubbing much easier. And I wash my hair with baking soda. And I condition my hair with apple cider vinegar. Oh, wow. To balance it to Yeah. So so it works. I have quite in the hands, you know, feels clean, soft. It's great. Wow, I feel cool, because it has a chemical that pulls more oil out of your scalp. I don't know if you heard it that. But that's the gimmick. That's the thing that they do. So you buy more shampoo. Shampoo all the time. Oh, wow. Yeah. But you dilute it, you don't use the template, of course, you put in the container. And then you know, you add water, stir it up, and then you pour. So it's very, very simple. For me, probably breathing exercises. If I if I try to do breathing exercises, I feel better, more more nirvana. Well, for me really long line. I create a space here that I really enjoyed in here and every day when I have clients coming back to see me and they talk about how they failed after the treatment is for me. It's a moment of joy. Well, that's wonderful. I'm sure you're helping so many people and let please let our listeners know where they can find you and come to see you both for lymphatic drainage massage, modeling, yeah, modeling massage, and all

Amy: 22:31

of it. Yeah, give us your website, your Instagram all the things

Unknown: 22:35

okay do not with as the Marilyn, we have natural far from Washington, just see, our website is www detox massage that CEO, you can easily find us on Instagram, which is detox massage. And the easiest way to call and talk as is through email. You go to the website and just send us an email. And it's truly you know, we really feel thankful blessed to be here and assist all this beautiful patients we have oh, we forgot to mention about the postdoc treatments that we offer. Oh, it's a big thing that we do here right? The full stop you Yes, yeah. So let's say someone gets liposuction or Mommy made overweight some Money Makeover it's a surgery that you know take care of the breast and the belly. So when they go back home they're not feeling the best in a good way to speed the recovery process is getting euphotic Trent edge immediately. When they get here we are able to assist during this process reducing the pain bruises swollen it's a it's a 90 day process the just leave walking way much better.

Amy: 24:03

So thank you so much Erica and Mimi for joining us today and teaching us all about lymphatic we got a little bit of a one on one and I think our listeners are really going to enjoy it and probably, you know check you out on Instagram and read all about you and lymphatic drainage and your content and then, you know go get a massage, get a lymphatic massage and try something new. So thank you so much for joining us. We're really happy to have had you on the show. We appreciate your time.

Unknown: 24:28

Thank you so much, Amy. Thank you Amy.

Amy: 24:32

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to buy

Episode 101 - From Pain To Zen: The Art Of Acupuncture With Dr. Jenelle Kim (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 101.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Unknown: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are welcoming back the fabulous Dr. Jenelle. Kim. Dr. Kim. She was with us sometime last year, episode number 62. She came in and we chatted all about traditional Chinese medicine and her book my Jung Sung, the Korean art of living meditation, which I have heard is doing very well and we'll get into all of that. But just to give you a little insight. Dr. Janelle Kim is a prolifically cited wellness expert that has been featured in Forbes allure, meditation magazine time GMA and more. She is devoted to integrating the philosophy, ancient medical wisdom and expertise of East Asia, with the advancements of modern life and medicine of the West to touch and positively affect the lives of others. Dr. Kim is a doctor of acupuncture, which is what we are going to get into today. She's nationally board certified or biology and our biology, oriental medicine and acupuncture. Dr. Kim completed her extensive training in East Asia and are some of the most respected doctors in the field of oriental medicine, and is the custodian of her lineage proprietary by bung formulas. So much could go on and on and on with your accolades and your accomplishments and everything. But we are so excited we our last conversation, we talked all about traditional Chinese medicine and, and your book and everything. And we were just really excited to get into acupuncture with you. So welcome back. And that's what we're going to do today. Thank

Dr. Janelle Kim: 1:58

you so much for having me back. I also really enjoyed my time last time, and I know we ran out of time. So it's awesome to have a chance to extend our conversation. So thank you for that.

Amy: 2:08

Good to see you. We've seen your quoted recently, Katie found the article, I think it was in Forbes and the New York Times and I think it was about your book. So we'd love to hear how the book is and what you're seeing.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 2:20

Yes. So grateful. It's been a little over a year now it launched January 11 2020 2am. I getting all these numbers straight. And that is I believe soon after is when I spoke to you both and it has it's done very well it is in 10 different countries and different languages right now, which is really, really special. That really meant a lot to me to know that so many people around the world are resonating with these principles don't pass down my lineage for so very long principles of the Dow and mindfulness for all of those who may not be familiar. And last week, yes, it was number one on Amazon, for mental health and spirituality. So it just means so much. One of my greatest wish, in short, is that these principles can be applied right away. You know, it is about I call it living meditation, as we talked about last time, so I don't think we have to get so far into it unless we wish. But you know, we hear so much about meditation now, which is amazing. 20 years ago, if you talk about meditation, people would look at you, you know, kind of blank stare. And now it's the best thing and I'm so grateful for that. But these principles, the medicine, the movement, I call them, the three pillars are things that have been passed down by our ancient sages masters from these ancient practices, and they all hold a similar principle. So whether it's from India or Korea, you know, the it's the cultures and the people who have been in existence for so very long, and the ways with which we can incorporate tools that can help us everyday no matter what's going on. And I call them the three M's. So acupuncture fits in that as well, or Balaji. It's the medicine pillar, movement. And meditation, which is a living meditation. Meditation is every moment of your day. It's not just when you sit down to meditate or, you know, do certain practices, it extends truly that kind of thinking it's a training. I've started to call it actually a training, not just we train our bodies, I moved on to start to really embrace that we of course, train our minds. But furthermore, I believe, very strongly, we also train our spirit, not that we are able to train our spirit, something I've been thinking about a lot because it feels that was very active and dynamic. And that is what living meditation mean, Jung Sung, the book and the principles are all about as we have to constantly it's a constant. And if anyone thinks it's not, you know, I have news for you, whether you like it or not it we have to constantly be a part of that. And so when I say train your spirit, your spirit is there, you know, and that can be a whole other conversation. But we have to train ourselves to connect to that, you know, that's when we start to feel disconnected from ourselves, Mind Body Spirit, disconnected from each other, disconnected from the universe, nature around us. So that's kind of why I believe it has started to spread These principles in such a way I know how much they helped my life and what I've seen my entire life. And yes, I'm really grateful in the last year that people are finding it helpful. The best thing I hear is when people come to me and say Dr. Kim, Janelle, that just made sense. It made sense. And it's helping. That makes me happy.

Unknown: 5:17

That's amazing. I'm so happy for you with all this success. And I saw that you're doing a lot of retreats and you're and you're teaching us and you just did something with the Diane Von Furstenberg with her Was it her daughter that

Dr. Janelle Kim: 5:30

granddaughters? So I mean, it's so amazing. She is such an icon, Diane Von Furstenberg, someone I've always looked up to just such an inspiring woman and really cares. And she started this platform, if you will, this community called in charge, and it's really neat. So you'll have to check it out. And it was the very first wellness day. And we opened with young son moving meditation, which is one of the three pillars that movement, but it incorporates the principles, the philosophy and the movements based in Chi Gong, right. And so similar to the understanding of acupuncture, Qi, Gong, martial arts, even yoga, they may speak of it a little bit differently. It all, how can I say it all, as a way to make flow through your meridian? Right? Your body to make everything function properly. And that's the ultimate secret to everything, right? Youth health, life. And so those movements such a neat thing, actually, I just was in New York, and was part of the international aesthetic spa and cosmetic conference, I ECSC. It's one that I went through 20 years ago, when I first started in the beauty business, right? For those of you who do not know, I formulate products, you know, based on the herbal medicine that's been passed down. But it was so excited, citing because it was one of the first places I ever spoke 20 years ago on formulation and medicine. And this time when I was in New York, it was just last week, I believe, maybe two weeks ago, I can't even keep track, I presented the movement as part of beauty and wellness. So it's just such an amazing thing to see, that are part of the world, the Western culture and society are really starting to embrace this. And I know it's going to make a huge difference in people's lives at a time where I think we all agree it's very needed. So absolutely.

Amy: 7:08

Yeah, absolutely. And I also really liked how you said in the beginning, that it is something you need to train, and it's not something you just do one time in your day. It's like an intentional practice. And I think it's hard to do. And I think it's good to remember that you're like constantly training muscle. To think in that more, I guess, intentional way. With all that being said, I know last time we touched very, very briefly on your acupuncture background. And we want to hear all about that, because we haven't done a show yet really to break down acupuncture and what it is how it's helpful. And it's you know, I've done it personally before and I think it's really helped me but I think for our audience, they'd love to understand more about acupuncture just generally speaking from like a really basic,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 7:56

absolutely. Well, I love that, that that you say the basic standpoint, because it can get very complex. And that's all good. And for certain of us that's very important to know our whole lives. We study this and you could spend lifetimes, right? But to me, those basic ways of understanding are the principles. That word I probably think about the most in my entire life and that but that's so important, because that's the way to understand our bodies. So yes, let's talk about acupuncture, how it works. But I encourage everyone while hearing this, well, however, I'm going to explain it right now. Whatever comes naturally and feels like it's resonating, but to also apply that in knowing our bodies every single moment because that it's the same thing, right? So one of the ways that my teachers taught me that I thought was a beautiful way to explain because you can kind of break it down and Eastern medicine. There's even when you get like I am nationally board certified in oriental medicine, it's funny you can you can do just acupuncture, you can do just herbal medicine, then you can do Oriental medicine, I think it's still this way and spend some time but when I studied and got my license however many years ago now that's the way it is. And so it's important to kind of understand that because I come from a lineage of apologists, and there is something in Eastern medicine, I say Eastern or Oriental medicine, it's all kind of interchangeable. It's all rooted in Chinese medicine. It came from China, but then even herbal medicine and acupuncture went to Korea, for example, Japan, and those practitioners, those ancient doctors, many of them very well known, such as Hojun in the Korean, you know, medical history of Eastern medicine, they took herbal medicine and advanced it, they took acupuncture and for example, Korean medicine is known for hand acupuncture, which is something I practice when I practice acupuncture, right? Japanese have a different kind of acupuncture, but it all is rooted from China. Okay, so I think that's important for some people to know what is the difference, but it all stems from the same principles. So when you go to East Asia, there's kind of this may be spoken about maybe not that there's acupuncture and herbal or biology, right. So you have the herbalists and you have the acupuncturist, in our society. I have noticed it's very it's more mixed, you still see that A lot of acupuncturists practice acupuncture and have some herbs and the herb ologists. It's seen in our society as well. But I like to kind of look at it that way, because both are very important, right? And then the way to understand acupuncture, in comparison to or in synergy with herbal medicine, is that herbal medicine is like the gas if you're a car, it's the gas, right? You need herbs, you need supplements, including food, to nourish ourselves to supplement we have to have qi and blood, right? It all comes down to this. Everything comes down to I'm pretty certain we talked about it last time, whether it's the medicine, the movement, the philosophy, everything in our life comes down to the yin and yang. And we could have a whole week of sessions, podcasts on that. But to break it down, First comes the Dow, the universe, right then is yin and yang, night and day. Yin and Yang is shown throughout every aspect of our life. That is the training, if you will, if you think about it this way as well, constantly balancing we use that word all the time. But what does that mean? So I'm gonna go into how that how that relates to acupuncture. But to start kind of from square one, there's even young, like I said, night and day, feminine, masculine, loud and soft. So you see young is also chi, right? So Young is movement, it's more, it's bright, it's light, it's loud, where Yin is your blood, your body fluids, for example, it is feminine energy, it is more quiet, you know, it's more complex. That's the truth in many ways. And so just as we see that in the nature around us, we start to see that in our own bodies. And what I love the most about Eastern medicine and acupuncture and herbal medicine, is that when you when I first started learning, one of the things I loved so much, that was a very special teacher, Alex to bear, he was very well known in the eastern medical community. He was amazing. And I remember him very much saying what resonated with my teacher growing up my father, that 1000s of years ago, they didn't have books. They couldn't study that way, how these ancient doctors, neurobiologist and practitioners understood the human body as they looked outside, you know, to some extent, right. So I'm very much simplifying this, but they saw the way that the trees grew the way the rivers would have flow. And they started to think I wonder if our bodies work in the same manner as what I'm seeing around me. And that's exactly the best way to think of it. And it's my favorite way to think about it. So that is what I like to share. So if we think of yin and yang, and our bodies are made of all of our internal organ systems, our muscles, our joints, you know, circulatory system, nervous hormonal, all of the systems within our body, as I just said, the Yin aspect of the yin and yang duality are the body fluids, the blood, especially for women, we're blood beings. And in general, men are more cheap. It's by nature, you know. And so it is very important to have enough right to supplement ourselves, and then flow properly throughout these meridian systems. And acupuncture uses meridian systems in our body to manipulate the flow of Qi, to make sure that our organ systems are fed to make sure that our muscle joints are working properly. And so if you start to picture to some extent, we all can picture the circulatory system, we have an idea that our veins or arteries run throughout our body in specific ways. Well, the same thing happens with meridians, you can sometimes hear them as channels, right? The acupressure acupuncture channels or meridian system, there's 12, primary eight extraordinary, I'm telling you a little bit more than maybe some may want to know. But that's important to know, I'll tell you why in a second. So you have 12 meridians that run through your body that connect to all of your organ systems. And your organ systems are also once again, going back to that yin and yang separated into yin and yang categories, there's ones that kind of very simply put, create chi, and there's ones that break them down. For example, in the the your the way your digestion, your middle functions, which in my humble opinion, and many in western Eastern medicine, your digestion is everything your gut is everything. You have your stomach and your spleen and Eastern medicine and they work together. Same in western, but an Eastern literally the spleen is yen and the stomach is young. And the stomach is in charge of, for example, breaking things down. Okay, that's the young, the actual load, the active, and the spleen is Yin. And that is in charge of taking all of the good chi, all of the good energy from the things you eat the air you breathe. So that's a simple way to maybe visualize how this works. So then you have meridian systems that connect, you have a meridian system for your spleen, you have a meridian system for your stomach, your liver, your lungs, and they all connect. So maybe some of you have even seen or it might be interesting, you don't have to study it or anything but one day just Google, you know, meridian system and see how how it runs throughout your body. And so it becomes that much more of a clearer understanding, I hope of how acupuncture and herbs and movement and the way you eat and the way you think start to affect the systems of your body. So the meridians run from your fingers all throughout your body, your head, your toes, I brought up the extraordinary channels. We don't have to go into all of them. But there's two that are so important, right and it's important because we can be aware of this in our daily life, one of them the Ren, the Yin vessel, the Yin channel runs down from the top of our head all the way down in the front, right? Okay, and do goes down in the back. And so one is the yen channel one is the Yang Channel. And on those channels, they're so special. There's literally points that connect to every one of the organ systems, right. And so you can see this a bit in other meridian systems, but it's very important, particularly in these channels, you start to even see chakras, right? For those of us who understand more of either Vedic or yoga, and how there's different chakra as well, that also starts to make that much more sense when you start to understand certain channels of energy of chi that run throughout your body. So I should have mentioned, chi is a huge concept that again, 20 years ago, I brought this up, people would be like, okay, Janelle, let's not get weird here. And now, everybody wants to talk about chi, thank goodness, because it's a part of our life. She is vital energy. If I did not have chi, I wouldn't be able to sit here and talk to you right now. I'd be like a blob just sitting on this chair. Well, that's one way of looking at it's the action, right? And so going back, so we have these meridians systems. And if we think of it as river systems, just like we see a nature that run throughout our body, we will have to make sure that there's constantly flow. So what do you need to have that proper flow so that everything is fed and nourished properly, a you have to have chi, you have to have blood, so a supplement health, vitality, and that comes once again, from thinking properly from eating properly from taking the proper supplements, herbal medicine, proper formulas that I talked about a lot, not just anything, because you heard it on tick tock, many great things that come from that, but you know, know the difference or educate ourselves. And so we have these meridian systems, we have to have enough gas in our car. That's why I was going back to so to kind of switch back to that for a second. My teacher once taught me that acupuncture and herbal medicine, herbs are like the gas in your car. And acupuncture is like the starting system, right. So it's like it starts your cart pushes things through, it helps to activate different acupoints. So now if you picture you have meridians in your body, you can imagine that by putting a needle or even pressure right or even movement, or now you know something that's not so much that I'm as familiar and expertise with is Reiki or different energy healings, many people are becoming more aware of you can stimulate going back to acupuncture, acupressure, certain points along these meridians systems, where, you know, this point is known for headaches. And so people will come with horrible headaches. And they will press large intestine for and you can feel it, it's kind of right between your thumb and your point your finger and right in between that web. And oftentimes when especially when you start to feel points, and she'll feel a little hole sometimes where you feel something catch. And if you start to feel even if you take that hole, Pat and start to just rub it, it's a little sore, right? Usually for most of us, well that directly that's a huge point. It's like a door, if you will both sides and on your particular when you start to touch it and people have horrible headaches, they it's like magic, like all of a sudden, oh my gosh, my headache is gone. Or when you have trouble breathing, one of my favorite points is right on the chest, right. So if you take two fingers right on your sternum, kind of right in the center, not two fingers, let's use all of them, makes you make sure to hit the point. And you press there and then kind of with a downward motion, because now we're thinking of chi. So for example, when we get heavy in the chest and can't breathe or anxious, and you start to feel that energy build, you know, you can catch yourself before you get there by feeling chi. That's why I love to talk about these things, you have to feel it yourself first. So even in those moments, you breathe in through your nose out through your mouth, and you press kind of downward on your sternum, that can also be a really sore point. But there is no one I have met who does not like that point being touched and that that basically supports and directly connects to your heart. They call your pericardium and Eastern medicine, your upper, your upper Zhao, and so it helps to direct chi. So these are the ways in which you can see that different points along these meridians systems start to affect the flow, right. So again, if we're river system, and the ultimate goal is to now have qi and blood flow through these systems properly through our circulatory system as blood chi through the meridian system, when we start to get sick from aging, normal process, when we get hurt, right from from a virus bacteria or we fall and we hurt something what happens is, if you picture these river systems, literally you've just you've just damaged that meridian system, right damage might be a strong word, but you've affected and so what can happen is whether it like I said, whether it's just normal process of aging, whether you have a stomach condition, whatever that looks like, here's your meridian, and now all of a sudden, over time, the sticks from the river, the dirt, the sediment, maybe some trash that has gotten into the river system starts to build up and you start to have blockages and so when things can't flow, it becomes stagnant. Stagnant is the number one bad thing in our life. In very simple terms, stagnation in our thinking stagnate You know, in our life, you have to have that flow. And so what happens is when you start to have blockages anywhere throughout your body, it's going to start to affect you. And you may not feel it right away, right, that's when someone has sprains their ankle, and they work through it. And they don't do acupuncture, they don't use certain formulas to help the body heal, for example, certain movements, and they let it be, and they believe that it is that much better. And 10 years later, now, for some odd reason, not so odd when you understand that this way, now their ankle, either having really bad arthritis, or you know, it's giving out a lot or they're losing strength. Well, it's because that area was never healed. It's that simple, right. So everything has to just constantly have that flow. So in conclusion, one of the best ways that we can do so is through herbal medicine to to fill ourselves up to nourish ourselves, but the herbs also have so many functions, of nourishing of breaking things down of detoxifying all those things. And acupuncture can do the same through different acupressure points through different systems of acupuncture study, and understanding. A practitioner can use needles on any one of these points in the way that they know that they're going to affect your body in a positive way. And it starts to open things up. And in the end, when people always ask, you know, Dr. Kim, what is the secret to youth to beauty to health to wellness, I always say it comes down to two main things, which is function and flow, everything has to function properly. And when we feed it properly, with all the things I just mentioned, so we're nourished as beings, that makes everything function properly, our body is miraculous. And if we give it what it needs, it knows what to do most of the time, right. And then you have to have flow, so everything's functioning, and everything's flowing, then you do not have sagging skin, you have a lot less wrinkles on your face, because you're nourished, you know, you don't have as much pain throughout your body. And that's, that's the way of understanding it very simply put. So

Amy: 21:55

it's so interesting, is so cool. I never thought about the meridians, and like the flow piece in that way. So that's a really good visual for for people to understand it. And when you were talking about the blockages, is that also related, you know, you hear so much about inflammation. So like, does that lead to inflammation, when you have blockages, labs,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 22:17

your inflammation and one way of understanding is just your body's way of telling your brain I have a problem, like Come quick. If you look at it that way. That's right formation is right. And so it's your it's certainly an imbalance in your body that's looking for help. So

Unknown: 22:32

I love that you gave us a few small acupressure points or things that someone can do for themselves at home. I mean, I understand the importance of, you know, if you if there's a problem, you should really seek the help of an acupuncturist and everything. But something as simple as being able to relieve a headache with that is is amazing. And it would benefit someone to, to maybe if they're if they're struggling with headaches or something like that, just to maybe Google the meridian system and kind of understand where these acupressure points are just as maybe if they wanted to get their toes wet, and then and then dive deeper and go into acupuncture. So it we just covered that it can affect every system in the body, and can then be beneficial for any and every condition. Acupuncture. Sure, if

Dr. Janelle Kim: 23:22

you look at it, that acupuncture can balance imbalances. Absolutely, it can. Absolutely it can, you know, obviously there's more extreme conditions. But also part of the goal with really understanding our body in this way is to hopefully be able to catch before something bigger happens, you know, a lot of times these things, sometimes it happens and it's just, you know, it's just part of what you have to walk through in this life for a very simple way of putting it. But there are so many times where if you looked a little bit deeper, or you were a little bit more aware of your body, you could have caught something a bit sooner. And we do hear that very often on a very positive note, I felt like something was wrong. I went to this expert, they didn't see it, but I knew it how many times we hear the story. So I kept going, that's an awareness that's knowing your own body. And there's very empowering, you know, and very important to be aware.

Unknown: 24:09

Yeah, and also, you know, something to really consider if you are struggling with something and going through a journey and seeing Western doctors and you're in the process of trying to find a diagnosis or whatever it may be or you just have this concern, it can be a really great time to just go ahead and like you said, try to get ahead of it and start start with acupuncture. And also it's it works equally as well for things like anxiety and depression and

Dr. Janelle Kim: 24:34

everything very much. So herbs and acupuncture can make a huge difference in this. Especially after we all just kind of visualize this together of how everything connects in that way. You know, we because we are again we say these things a lot and one of my favorite things living meditation is to stop and think about what we're saying. Sometimes we all we often say Mind, Body Spirit, we're all aware of what that is right? But when you really think about mind, body spirit, it's that connect it like we are those three things. And so when mentally, spiritually, we feel an imbalance, especially when it's things that are a little bit harder to understand sometimes like anxiety, like panic, right, like depression, you know, I'm saying a lot of conditions right now. But we get the understanding, right? When we feel off that way, we have to remember that we can also affect those things physically, particularly with movement. That's one of the reasons why, you know, quite frankly, I didn't think I'd start teaching movement, this soon, I thought, okay, medicine, then the book will come out and later down the road. But guess what, it's catching on very quickly. And I know that the reason is that even through proper movements, particularly stemming from the internal art of yoga, of Qigong, which is what I very much resonate with, and start to teach. It also, as I said, before, starts to work with your meridian systems. So when you're feeling just like I said, You are aware enough to feel oh, wait a second, I'm starting to feel anxious. There are very quick ways sometimes the quickest is through movement, you know, through movement and breath, I really, really mean that, especially with, with feelings of anxiety, and feelings of grief, or fear, or any of the our emotions that can kind of overwhelm us to be honest, we really do have control over whether we feel like we do at times or not, we can learn to have tools to help us with those things. You know, so it's very empowering. Um, oh, go ahead.

Amy: 26:22

So I have a question that people may be wondering. So when I first went to the acupuncturist they looked at, or actually he did this, like every time I came in, yes, looked at my tongue. So what is that? What is your tongue tell you? Like? Why is that so it seems like that's a standard practice

Dr. Janelle Kim: 26:39

that a lot of the main thing is when you walk in to talk to an acupuncturist, or a bolus for that matter that they should look at, that they usually will look at as your tongue and your pulse. Right. So that's kind of a known thing. And Eastern medicine. So your tongue and your pulse, which shows all the different kind of levels of every organ system in your body, and there's different, so many pulses, to understand what's happening, but your tongue reflects what's happening internally, inside, right. And so different different, like, for example, this is one that people might find interesting, you go, and you look at your tongue, and you you can kind of know certain things yourself as well. So a lot of us will have if you if you look in the mirror, a red tip on the edge of our tongue, and that represents now understand this is different than Western medicine. But in Eastern medicine, we call it Hearthfire. Hearthfire, stems a lot from right, that or can lead to rather is the root of anxiety, you know, feeling of panic, feeling overwhelmed. And that is an imbalance, which, particularly in our society, I have a feeling a lot of us may have. And so, yes, you're, you can map out the organ systems on your tongue. That's what I'm trying to say you there's, there's a map, if you will, a system to feeling the pulse and the different organs. So it basically is a way for the practitioner, the doctor to see and not everyone, you know, everyone's at different places in their in their practice and their experience in treating patients. And that's very, very important. But basically, you can see the internal condition through the tongue and through the pulse. And quite frankly, one of my favorite ways that I was taught since I was I don't know, as far back as I can remember, and just part of natural life. But, you know, without I say, it's funny, I don't notice either in some way, but when you walk in front of me, you also look at everything in that person, their eyes, how that looks, their skin tone, and I'm not talking Oh, you look really, you don't you look, you look really tired note, it's deeper than that you can tell from someone's even their face, what's going on inside. And so it's kind of this hole. So I say if you stand in front of me, I just naturally, accidentally will always close you. And so it's not a conscious thing. But if you ask me, I'm like, Oh, yes, I already know. And it's, it's a really important practice, actually, when you do start to just pay attention. That's the thing that's so beautiful as a practitioner is our responsibility to know that I take that very seriously. But even as human beings, you know, take the time to sometimes sit, quiet yourself, calm yourself and, and really start to study in some way. Not necessarily from a peer trying to figure someone out, but really from just their presence, their feeling, you know, the eyes, show the soul and your spirit. And so a lot of times you'll see when someone you know is not having the best day or is not in a great spot. Something is amiss. That's a very interesting

Amy: 29:26

yeah, I think we noticed that because I mean, I think we observe ourselves in that way. But I think it's almost easier to observe other helplessly like if your kid Yeah, feeling ill, right because they look a little pale or they're like just you could just tell love

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:40

that actually, yes, particularly in our kids. And and let that be a reminder of how intuitive and how much we really do know these things. You know, we can't guess there's also let me be very clear, because I think there's a lot happening in the world right now where a lot of people are sharing things that although I'm very happy, didn't know we were I was going to go here with all of us today, but let's just do it. I'm very happy that people are sharing more in this world is opening, but also let it be known, there might be a lot of information out there that is not correct and not proper. And that does exist, you know. So I'm a huge supporter of people, it's important to know where it comes from. Right? So the acupuncturist, where did they go to school? How long have they been studying, just because they haven't been there forever does not mean that they're not have a certain gift or care or are very much experts in who they are. But there's something that comes with time and experience or who is your teacher and Eastern medicine, philosophy, martial arts, yoga, any of the ancient practices, people want to know who your teacher is. And that's something that in Western society, I have a feeling we're going to start to understand a little bit more, it's going to be important, and a time where everyone is an expert, it feels our code, right? I don't mean that respectfully, but we're talking now we're working with other people use their lives, like you don't mess around with that. Not that anyone even means to, but it's very important to know who you're going to what products you're buying, who formulated them, why did they what did they know? Even your skincare? You know? So I'd say that that is a huge thing that I think is important for people to be aware of.

Unknown: 31:08

Is that so? So those are great tips for helping someone find an acupuncturist locally because it is very readily available now, which is fantastic. I mean, we have multiple acupuncturist and in my little town, so what would you say are? Do you just suggest they just write up find out ask, you know, the questions you just mentioned, how does someone know that they're going to a trusted person? Yes. And

Dr. Janelle Kim: 31:35

it is? That is yes, I love this question. I would, I think it's very important. I wish there was a perfect equation and there is not but thing is that, like I said, there are some people who are gifted, there are some people who even young have connected to a certain teacher or master. acupuncturists are of all ages. So I would start there, where did you learn from? You know, are you accredited? That's very important. I think nowadays, you don't have as much of that as you did. But at the same time, I want to remind us, you know, if you go to the mountains of China, I don't think they're going to show you some beautiful diploma, you know, and so let that be in the backyard seriously, you know, or sometimes even, you know, sharing and educating about herbs. I, I'm a huge proponent of studies and understanding and science, but also something being around for 1000s of years makes a difference. And if you go and try to ask the Korean farmer and the ginseng, you know, a mountain of Korea who's growing ginseng, and he's trying to find it, you ask him, if it's organic, he's gonna think there's something he has no clue what you're even talking about. Remember these things, but going to what you're saying, right? I mean, we have the perspective, it's the most important thing, right? But But ultimately, it is very important is going back to what you were saying, Katie, that you have to find someone who knows what they're doing, period, end of story. And you can find that out? Where did you go to school? How long have you been practicing? Do you have a certain Do you have a teacher? Do you have a route? I think that's really important. You know, it's one way doesn't mean they have to, but if they do have these things, there's a good chance that they're going to very be able to help you in a very wonderful way. You know, the beautiful thing about acupuncture. I feel comfortable saying I check myself of course. But, you know, in general, it's not as hard to hurt someone, you certainly you can don't get me wrong, it's nice to know at least that if you go and try it, you know, it's not, you know, something, if you take too much of a medication, and it's not proper for you, guess what, you're in a lot of trouble. And so someone better not terribly envy, yes, it's not terribly invasive, they can you can feel a little difference with your chi, which is not so great and fun. But you know, it's not the end of the world. So it's worth it to try and also see what people's specialties are. A lot of times, there will be certain people as as it very well should and can be that specialize in certain things specialize in helping with hormonal imbalance helping with orthopedic type of issues and imbalances, digestion, you will find people who just tend more towards a certain condition, if you will, doesn't have to be but but that's always a neat thing, mostly because they have so much experience in that. So that was the next thing. So where did they go to school? What are their their credentials? Right? Very important always. Also, how long have you been practicing? Usually, in general, it's the wisdom of things, right? If someone has been practicing for a long time, it means they've seen a lot of people. And there's something that comes with that. I don't mind that at all, you know, and then you try it, and then you're aware of your own body. So let me tell you, if you go to an acupuncture treatment, it is fine to be relaxed, calm. In fact, that's what you look for. But if you are feeling particularly drained a little off, you know, doesn't mean you go and get mad at acupuncturists per se, but just know okay, maybe that wasn't the most balanced and then also don't give up. Go and try just like you get a second opinion or go go somewhere else. Hopefully you don't even have to get there. But just know that we're all people. We all come from different stages. I'm pretty certain anyone you go to is going to care. I can't. I might be a little naive, but I can't imagine that someone would ever put themselves in that position without caring. And so you know, those are the things you can look got four. So

Unknown: 35:02

and it should yeah, go ahead. I was just, I was just gonna say really quickly that it should be noted, I've experienced acupuncture and I know Amy, you have as well for someone that never has. It's not painful. It's, you know, it can be a very relaxing, calming experience. And, Amy, after you ask your question, I'd love to, at one point get into just some of the benefits that someone should expect. But what are you going to say me?

Amy: 35:26

Oh, I was just going to make a comment. It's important about asking those questions, because which is really good. So at this point, acupuncture is very readily available on campus is wonderful. And it seems like now it's out, there's a lot of, you know, private practices, the person I went to is like a traditional Chinese medicine person. But then there's also these wellness centers, or people that do like chiropractic and physical therapy that have acupuncture. So there, which is like, great, I think, because it's integrating that practice into more maybe traditional ways of healing. But those backgrounds might be a bit different, right, than like the TCM CCed methods. And does that matter? Or is it more just like asking the questions and making sure that they're

Dr. Janelle Kim: 36:14

absolutely, I appreciate you bringing this up, because there is a difference. And let me just put it this way. My master's, I finished everything a bit quick, quickly. But you have to have a bachelor's, first of all, if I remember correctly, don't mark my words, it's been 20 years, and we have to have undergrad school, and then you go to study acupuncture. And when you get your Masters, I'm pretty certain gosh, I should have thought about this first, but it's at least three years, three to four years of schooling. And then on top of that to your doctorate is so I did not finish school until I was what 35 I mean, let's be clear here. Some of the other practitioners out there who want to incorporate acupuncture into their clinic does not mean maybe there's someone who is just naturally gifted and connects with it, maybe they have a certain teacher, and they're not necessarily an acupuncturist. But a lot of people can go to school right now, and spend X number of hours, like a couple of days and have some kind of acupuncture certificate, you know, forgive me, I don't I'm not as into acupuncture oil in this way. But I think you're onto my drift here, that there's a big difference between going and having a couple of seminars, versus this getting two years of study of acupuncture, and that's your, your focus. And that does exist. And that does occur.

Amy: 37:27

And I think that's a really good watch out for our listeners, because you really want to look at their background. So you're comfortable that this person has been studying it for years, and they're not taking like a weekend course and learning how to do because you're right, that probably does happen with places that want to just integrate that in. So it's a, it's something

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:46

and many of them might have, this is the beautiful thing about acupuncture, going back to that understanding of how our bodies work, you know, it could just be that you stimulate a few points and all of a sudden it makes the flow happen and open to the dam, and you feel so much better. So it's not that it won't necessarily help you. But there's a difference.

Unknown: 38:04

That's it's interesting. And so the some of the benefits, I'm just curious, aside from let's say, you go to an acupuncturist for hormonal imbalance, and they help you with that. Does does acupuncture has a whole bullet? Will it do other things? Will it help with other systems just naturally start to balance all of those meridians? Or is it so targeted?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 38:28

No, I would actually it's it helps to the way I treat, right. So I at this point, I was focused more on herbal medicine as comes from my lineage. But in in clinic, when I did treat what I do find moments to treat now and again, and most of the teachers and very, very well known acupuncturist that I am aware of you treat root, right? So that's the whole point of Eastern medicine, you always look at the root. So one thing I wanted to say before is when you walk into clinic, there might be other things that occur and that diagnosis section of your time with with whatever acupuncturist or practitioner, they will feel your pulse, they will look at your tongue, they may do other things. But then there's a series of questions that they go through, that are really important to pay attention to these are things that you as a human being should be paying attention to all of the time. How are you sleeping? What is your sleep light? If you wake up? When do you wake up? Is it you have trouble falling asleep? Or do you wake up in the middle of night? All these things mean something? How you use the restroom? How many times a day? You know what I mean? What does that look like? I mean, it actually gets very specific and I speak no out now more as a doctor, but those things are really important to understand and to keep track of yourself. So that's one way I want to answer your question Katie is it is very much it's all stepped because you look at the root of the issue. Right? And so it very much can treat symptoms as well but different than, you know modern medicine and that it just treats the symptoms and does not always get to the root to try to balance that to begin with. And so when you think of it that way, that particularly a lot of the practice or cuz I know myself included, that you may come with something that you might be so specific. And I'm going to you know, you have you have a rash on your face, right? And I'll start to treat your digestive system. Right, I'll start to treat your middle. Because while you have and with, with the formulas I created as well, that's exactly what happens. You come to me you say there's a certain thing, where is it on your body? I see it for a minute, I can tell what kind of properties is it? You know, is it more internal? Is it something that kind of aggravated you externally all those things matter, for example, but there's a very good chance I will be treating your entire condition, because that is what's going to actually make it rebalance itself, if that makes sense. So when you think of it that way, I would go so far as to say I can't think of one condition that acupuncture and herbal medicine cannot in some way positively affect not one, you know, there are certain things and also I'm a huge proponent, let it be known, this might shock some people. I'm a huge proponent of Western medicine as well, but know when to use it. That's the thing, we can point all the fingers, we want, you know, but at the end of the day, your point one, three are pointing back at you, one of my favorite thing is like you have to know what you're doing. You cannot just go to your experts, they they should have a responsibility. And really hold that very, as a very important thing in life. However, you have to know your own body, like always goes back to that. So there's a time for Western medicine. When you need antibiotics, you go get antibiotics, when an incredible thing that modern medicine we have today. But don't just take antibiotics, because you know, you have a cough. I mean, even modern medicine would tell you now go home and people get mad like, No, that's a beautiful thing that they're teaching you right now. So it's just that balance. But yes, in the long run, pretty much you can treat anything, treat the wrong word, it can help to rebalance anything.

Amy: 41:48

Yeah. So I have a question. For the average person who wants to go to to acupuncture, let's just do a few scenarios. So like I was going for, for quite a long time as it was part of the pandemic, and then everything, you know, I couldn't go in session, but because I have similar migraines, and I found that it really helps with just like balancing out. So every time I'd go, I'd be like, this is bothering This is bothering me, or nothing's bothering it was more for maintenance, which I thought was really helpful, um, added a habit and they issue back however, for that for for someone who maybe has an autoimmune or like chronic condition, is it? Is it a good idea to go to acupuncture is like maintenance? And it's what does that look like? Is it once a month? Is it once a week? And then for other people that maybe just have like shoulder pain or something very specific? Like, what does that look like? Because I know some people could go to acupuncture once and be like, Oh, it did, right? Which is ridiculous. Because they have to you need to go at times in order for it to take effect. So if you could just talk our listeners through that a little bit, I think

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:46

absolutely. So first of all, what you said I love, I love reminding people, including myself, our bodies took this much time to get to have this imbalance, you have to give it a little bit of time to rebalance itself, right. And so. So I think that's a very important thing to acknowledge. And to know, sometimes you can go to an acupuncturist, and within the first time you feel huge difference, and it's lasting. So let's put that out there as well. But yes, it can take a little bit of time, it really depends on every single person, and every single imbalance or condition that you have, you know, and that's, it seems like so redundant, but that's because it's just the truth. You know, so you are with issues with sleep, you may go with, you know, mental emotional type of imbalances, your anxiety, your, you know, you may go with shoulder pain, and it just truly depends on how your body is able to rebalance itself, how open you are to how much how many years you've had this, those things do make a difference. And so there isn't just one way. So it just the mere nature of being human means that no matter what we do, we can eat the very best we can have the perfect sleeping schedule, whatever that is, you can make a point here we can we can live a you know, relatively calm life and all these things will make a huge difference. But the nature of being human means we are getting young, it means we will always have good, but we will always have bad, you know, period if you look if you really break it down. So it's very important for us to take care and maintain. So even if we say preventative medicine, okay, I totally agree with that. But maybe it is just a maintenance of making sure we're constantly nourished and supplemented, and whether that is through acupuncture herbs, because remember, they kind of they, they can do similar things different, same, same but different. But we're so for example, for myself, I incorporate a lot of herbal medicine into my life. I'm a fairly healthy person, I'm very aware and very conscious of how I live, eat all the things. One of the most important I was actually just speaking to a girlfriend yesterday, which I say that you know, with love, and I highlight that because sometimes it's the people closest to you that you don't really have these conversations because it's just the nature of humanity and how we relate to each other. But we gotten to this conversation and I mentioned to her I think maybe the most important thing, one of the most important things in life is eating properly. And it's Simple, it doesn't have to be so extreme. Yes, don't eat a lot of greasy fatty foods, you know, don't eat a lot of fried foods, for example, eat a balanced diet. But one of the most important thing is in our health, I'm sorry, I know I'm going off a little bit, but here's our time together, is you have to eat consistently. You know, that's one of the most important thing isn't Eastern medicine to eat consistently, I enjoy two meals a day, it works for my body, if I wake up, and I'm really, really hungry, guess what, I'm going to eat something, you know, and then that's how we have to look at things. But eating is so important. Then on top of that, like for maintenance of our health, our youth, our beauty, all the things are Mind, Body Spirit. So and then maybe, maybe seasonally, seasonally is a great way, if you're feeling really great, how do I incorporate these things when seasonally is always a good, good time to do it? Right. So when the seasons change, maybe you go and you get acupuncture, you know, maybe you take a regimen or herbal formulations, internal, you know, even the skincare that I formulate for companies, you know, around the world, ultimately, a lot of those body lotions will have certain herbs that detoxify you throughout the day. So it's incorporating things into your life that will help you now if you have an actual condition, go and then depending on that practitioner and how they're going to treat you, they should give you an idea of how many treatments you're going to need. Usually in the beginning, you'll have a lot more, maybe you'll come multiple times in one week, maybe you'll come two times for a couple of weeks. And then it'll start to taper off a bit where it's more of a maintenance. Right. And so that's kind of what that looks like. As far as acupuncture.

Unknown: 46:30

Yeah, I love the idea of adding for those that that are just, you know, in kind of like a maintenance phase of adding acupuncture in seasons. As things shift and change, I might try that because it's true, this season changes always kind of just messily as

Amy: 46:45

as they do affect your body. Absolutely. Yeah,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 46:48

maybe it's a strange way of saying it, but as it should, meaning it's part of nature, you know, these things happen, it's part of time, and I feel like even when it comes to hormonal imbalance, something else I was talking to someone recently, you know, and going through menopause, I feel like we make it such a horrible thing. I'm just gonna say it for all of us. Oh, no menopause. So like, by the time even get there, your body's already so heightened and afraid and everything's off balance, you probably manifested a million more symptoms than you even need it because you were so scared. We all understand this. Let's just say it for all of us. But if we start to even start at certain points in Herbalife to realize you know it, it is part of nature, for a moment in time, I might feel a few things and it is going to be okay. And I'm going to be aware of my body, I'm going to know that by taking certain supplements, by eating properly, especially during that time, by giving myself a little bit more nourishment and awareness, I can kind of go with that flow doesn't mean it's always going to be you know, the most enjoyable experience. But just you can just feel right now coming into it a little differently, how much that's going to help because remember our hormones and our brain, they're very connected. Right, and she you can look at it that way too. And so it's just that it can be so powerful in and of itself. So

Amy: 48:05

yeah, I was also gonna say, just for for people listening, just so you know, or at least my insurance and a lot of people that I've spoken to insurance covers acupuncture, which a lot of people don't know, which I think is amazing, because it does show the value in it, and you're not paying out of pocket for all of this. So I know many insurance companies cover acupuncture, which I think is fabulous. And one other just slight anecdote, which I probably told Katie before, but and I'm sure those who are listening to this podcast already are believers in a lot of these things. But for people who are like a little bit like, Oh, that's too Whoo, that doesn't work, like whatever. I wanted to acupuncture once. And I was like, my period was late. I'm so bloated. I just felt like, just bloated and like full. And I knew my period is coming, but it like was late or stagnant. So I said to my eyes, were just stagnant. Exactly. So he's like, Oh, I just feel like balloon and like, whatever. So he forgot even where he did it next day. So I was like, okay, there you go. Like that, to me was such a turning point. Not that I didn't like I was an introvert before, but that was like very, it was very specific. And so I've told a lot of people that because like, that was clearly because he treated Yes, absolutely. You know, it was pretty direct way

Dr. Janelle Kim: 49:20

of saying, you know, you make things flow. I mean, I don't mean to but like, yeah, it wasn't like a

Amy: 49:25

situation. It was like one day Yeah. And the next day, I'll get

Dr. Janelle Kim: 49:28

great examples to that time a month for women to understand the feeling of stagnation. And then when things start to flow, and then what happens I mean, that is actually really a very good example to be aware of that. That is that is how it works with our body and all the systems not just you know that particular time, but in our life, all of it, but you can feel it. You know, PMS is a time of stagnation period.

Amy: 49:53

You know, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's fascinating. We could talk about this forever, but I you know, you have limited time. And we appreciate all the time you've spent with us. And we asked you, we went through a rough session last night. So I'll just ask you one question from our obsession, because this could always be changing. So what is your latest favorite wellness or beauty?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 50:11

My latest favorite wellness or beauty hack? Oh, gosh,

Amy: 50:14

I can't remember last time remember either you said it was okay. Right now

Dr. Janelle Kim: 50:19

in my life, like right this moment? What comes to mind because I am practicing it is my movement that goes back to that right now that is very, very important in my life, because like I said, It directly affects when no matter what, if I wake up in the morning, I have 15 minutes of movement that I will start to share more on my platform. I know I say this, and then everyone's like, Well, where do I go, you know, and it can be striking I write there's a specific sequence, one of which I do have up on my website, I promise I will make more soon. But they're quick. They're quick, very proper movements that have been passed down for centuries, because they can quickly affect your body. And so that, to me, is a beauty activity. Because when you're stressed, when you are tired, your chi goes off balance all the things we just talked about. And as simple Chi Gong type of movements can make you feel like a totally different person in five to 10 minutes. I mean, are breathing it has a lot to do very least just sit down I just posted something on my social where just stop and breathe for a second that is so important. You know, even that noise is really funny. I was thinking about this last night because I what do I want to share because there's something people really resonated and loved the breathing exercise. And something that can be really important. Maybe the people around you are not going to love it that I'm sharing this with you. But that stagnation. I were like ready to leave and I'm opening up a hole I promise I'll be quick. But stagnation, no Ilana whenever the best quickest ways to kind of diffuse stagnation in our body which causes liver Qi stagnation livers are general and so you can tell when someone comes in, you're like, oh geez, here we go. Very liberties that person is you can sigh like, it sounds funny, but that directly affects your body. Right? So that's why he's physically with our breath, we can totally adjust our body and when everything's flowing and we're a little less stressed, then it directly affects how we look or beauty or wellness or health. And then of course I have to say I mean the formulas that I create I'm so very grateful for my own career and job that I do because my my bathroom looks like my lab and I'm constantly using different herbal formulations and ingredients. So that will always be so I love right now I'm loving a serum I think a serum is very important in our beauty regimen. So there you go some Chi Gong young son moving meditation and

Unknown: 52:43

love. Well, Dr. Kim, thank you so much for your time it was such a pleasure to see you you always bring us so much positive energy and so many great tips and so much loaded with so much advice and knowledge so we really appreciate your time and I know our listeners will love learning about acupuncture is a topic we have not touched at all. So it's a lot of fun to get into. It's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 53:04

I love that it's my absolute pleasure. I'm so so happy to spend time with you both and to share all that I can

Amy: 53:11

love it. Thank you so much stopping recording. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to buy

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Episode 100 - 100 Episodes! What We Have Learned + Exciting Announcements! (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 100.

[00:07] Amy: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:24] Amy: You um, hello and welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters Family. This is a very, very special episode. We are celebrating 100 episodes today. I cannot believe it, Katie. I'm literally in disbelief. I know, but we're here.

[00:43] Katie: Congrats. Woohoo.

[00:46] Amy: Congrats to you too. I just cannot believe how far we've come. This was a nugget of an idea, what, two years ago? Two ish two and a half years ago, and we've done 100 episodes. So first and foremost, I just want to thank you for being my partner in crime, my sister in law, one of my best friends. I just think so much has changed over the last couple of years for us, and I think we've gotten so much closer because of this podcast, because we're connecting on things more often. We're talking all the time. We're business partners. We've become closer friends. It's just like the whole thing has been so amazing. It's just like thinking about it. We're always so rushed. We were just talking before we started this recording. We're so rushed, we don't really get a chance to reflect. So my first thank you is to you.

[01:36] Katie: That's really sweet. Yeah, I feel the same way. I'm in shock and disbelief that we're at 100 episodes, but at the same time, we've done everything souped to nuts for this thing. So it's also like kind of when you think about the weight of all the work that we've done, you can feel that as well. And it feels like a huge accomplishment. And I want to thank you too. I love you so much. And this was your idea. This is like your little you called me one day. I remember when you said this to me. I was sitting on the corner of my bathtub in my old house, looking out the window, thinking, she's insane. How are we going to do a podcast? Look, here we are. And it has it's been great. Here we are.

[02:16] Amy: Yeah, I know. It's just crazy how if you put your mind to something, you can have a nugget of an idea and you put your mind to something and do it and keep doing it and keep doing it over and over again, and it grows and more people know about it. And all of our listeners have been so incredible. So thank you to everyone listening. Thank you for all your support, all your comments, all your feedback. It's just been so encouraging to hear from you and to hear about what you want to hear about when you like something, when you don't like something. And so, yeah, we're just going to spend the next few minutes just kind of talking through the last 100 episodes and some of the highlights. And we also have some exciting announcements we're going to talk about at the end. So, yeah, just thank you to everyone who has supported and listened to us over the last few years. We're just so excited we've reached this really huge milestone and can't wait for more. So, Katie, what's your takeaway from these last 100 episodes, if you have one?

[03:11] Katie: Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's hard to just have one other than I've learned so much. And a massive thank you to all of our unbelievably talented and intelligent and powerful guests that we've had. We've spoken to some of the most amazing entrepreneurs, some of the most amazing doctors. I've learned so much. I think I could touch on a few of probably the most powerful ones that have resonated with me the most. The most recent one would be Dr. Angela Holiday Bell on sleep hygiene. She just like, tapping into she really helped me kind of understand what I need to be doing to kind of reel my sleep in. And that literally has kind of changed my life. The thing as simple as wearing blue lights when you watch TV before you go to bed helped me fall asleep faster and helping me understand why I need more time to wind down because I have a harder time producing melatonin, like does all of that. And then Jessica McGuire. Remember Jessica McGuire from the Vagus Nerve talking about the nervous system? The Vagus Nerve, I think that was the single most powerful episode out of all of our 100 episodes for me personally, the window of tolerance, understanding what it means to have a dysregulated nervous system, recognizing someone's dysregulated nervous system, and then learning how to co regulate. It's helped me. It's helped my husband, it's helped my kids. That episode was really profound for me. And, I mean, I could say that about so many of them. Natasha Brinkman. It's like a master class on skincare, right?

[04:58] Amy: Oh my God, that was amazing.

[05:00] Katie: Obsessed. What about you? What are some of yours?

[05:05] Amy: Honestly, I'm like sitting here scrolling through all of these 100 episodes, and I think for me, there were pieces of information that I've gotten from every single episode that I've applied to my life. I mean, to your point. Like The Vagus Nerve episode and breathing from Erica Brunozer and talking about parenting tips and how to talk to your kids, that one was really helpful for me. Also, shout out to Zoe Feldman. I was just looking. She was our first official guest on Nirvana Sisters in episode six. So we love Zoe, and so many of our kind of like, people that we knew, friends of friends of Friends kind of started out with us in the beginning and then we sort of grew from there. And I think I've just taken bits and pieces, like whether it be from Cat Can Cook and The Hungry Lady salad to, like you said, skincare with Natasha or hormone stuff with Michelle Aspinwall. Also, of course, one of my favorites was talking to Ellie Webb, which was definitely a dream come true for me, and talking to Brittany Driscoll and talking to some of these business leaders, just getting advice on entrepreneurial stuff and how to balance motherhood and working and all of these things. So I don't know, it's so hard to pick a favorite. I think for me, it's just taking bits and pieces of all of these things and using the ones that work for me. And I think from a listener standpoint, too, it seems like people listen to the episodes that they're interested in and then they take pieces from that. And it's like everyone that we have on is an expert in something, but it doesn't mean that what they're saying works for everyone. And so I think that using some of these bits and pieces across all the episodes helps you in whatever way you want. I also thought I'm just kind of scrolling through and looking like episode 50, the psychedelic therapy with Julia Mirror was just so fascinating. Like, it's so out of our ether and something we don't really talk about and think about, but just learning about that. And I also find now that I'm talking to people or a subject comes up and it's related to any one of our episodes, whether it was chiropractics or psychedelics or vagus nerve or chromal wellness, even, I find that I have this information somehow stuck in the back of my head and I just regurgitate it, not even realizing that I knew it. Yeah, because we're just picking up pieces of information as we go. It's just kind of like sinking in and then you do something differently and you're like, oh, yeah, I learned that in this Chroma episode. Or I learned this from Janelle Kim when we talked to her about traditional Chinese medicine. And I think we've made so many great connections with other women, which I really like, too. When we think about someone like Rachel Johnson, who we did the episode on, it was episode 63 when we talked about Green's Water Move Repeat and her whole company, AMI Health. It's just been great to meet these other women who were doing similar things to us, and we're all sort of this family and everyone supports each other, which I think is so nice about the podcasting world. There's so many podcasts, but in a good way, right? Like, everyone encourages each other and everybody wants to help, and it's just like one big podcast family, I feel like. And when we meet all these women that are in wellness or View Your Skincare, everyone's excited for everyone and everyone celebrates one another. And I really like that about this space.

[08:27] Katie: Yeah, it's incredibly supportive. I think you're exactly right. We've had a few amazing male guests also, that we've learned a lot from I think it's funny, when we first started, we didn't know if we were going to necessarily lean more female centric and it's just kind of been a natural gravitation. But it's all part of that support system and I'm really proud of it, actually. I think it's great. And it's also when you were talking about things that you learned and I was also just thinking about a way that this has kind of shaped me as a person. Doing this with you for the last two years is it's just made me more confident. When I meet new people, I almost find them. Like, I'm like and I'm not interviewing them, but I just have such an easier time meeting new people now because it's what we do. We talk to new people and we interview them pretty much weekly. And then a lot of these people are stuck in my head. They live rent free in my head with some of their amazing quotes like Andrea Marcellus, I just hear her say, like, your afternoon snack should be protein and a healthy fat. And then I hear Dr. Janelle Kim saying things like, stop being drunk on your own thoughts. Or Rachel, you just said Rachel and me greens, water, move, repeat. I can't tell you how many times these things just pop in my head. I'm like, oh yeah, that'll help my day get better. Just follow that. Follow that. So it's amazing. We're really fortunate and grateful to have come across the people that we have and had them on the show.

[09:56] Amy: Yeah, and I also it's funny because I feel like we've done episodes that we aired a long time ago and some of those topics are coming up now, like Fascia or Guaca and all of these things we sort of talked about a couple of years ago that are now coming into the world. And it's just I love learning about things that we see are sort of bubbling up and trending and then all of a sudden you hear them all the time as people's regular vernacular. So I think that's interesting. We also can't forget about our product junkie episodes because I think those have grown and we've gotten a lot of really positive feedback about those. And those are definitely one of my favorites because they're just us talking and chitchatting about what products we like, which we do all the time anyway, which was part of the reason we started this podcast. Like, let's just record our phone conversations and talk about, oh, I tried this, I tried this. So just like, doing all that has been super fun and tapped into the passion that we both had for products and just trying new things and talking about those new things. But I agree with you. When I meet with people, too, I definitely feel more confident and have kind of like, more ways to communicate because I don't think sometimes I'm the best communicator and I think this podcast has helped me to slow down, try and work on not saying as much. I also think it's helped with my public speaking. So from my corporate job, just being confident to go up in front of a room of people and talk, it's like one of those things that everyone's always nervous about no matter how many times you've done it. It's like a scary thing. But I think being able to talk every week on the mic and have it being recorded kind of gives you a lot of practice. So it helps just in general with communication and active listening.

[11:38] Katie: Yeah. Also I've had some just like fun favorite moments. Like nothing is funnier to me than when we're doing product junkies and I hold up a product and you're like, yes, I have that one too. I was going to review it this week. Or how fun is I know, we're like same brain. Exactly. And then seeing our guests in the wild. How wild was that, that you ran into Brittany Driscoll in La a little while ago and then seeing Meredith Quill running into her? Well, we didn't run into her, but going to her event in Westport and those little connections are really special. So yeah, it's all just been a lot of fun.

[12:18] Amy: Yeah, I love it. And it's actually really funny too, because then you start seeing people that we've interviewed connect. Who was it? I think Brittany Driscoll and Katie Whelan, who we just had on recently, talked about all the peptide stuff. They both live in Nashville and I saw that they were on some panel together.

[12:34] Katie: Oh, nice.

[12:34] Amy: And I was just like, oh my God, that's so weird that they happen to be on the same panel. We've had them both on the show, like they're in the same space, so it's just like all these crazy worlds colliding. But I think it's just this was definitely born out of a passion project. It still is. And I wanted to also talk a little bit about the blood, sweat and tears that this has been for us because again, we're busy and running and everyone says to me, and I'm sure they say to you too, like, how are you doing at all? And the answer is, I have no idea. But I think when you have a passion and you enjoy something, it doesn't matter and you just kind of figure out a way to do it. Nothing is perfect. Of course. It's like we always say, we could be doing more, we could be doing this, we could be doing that. But at the end of the day, we make **** happen. And I think it's really hard to do being like having another full time job, being a mom, doing this. We do this on the nights, we do this on the weekends, we do it when we can squeeze it in, but it's ours and we can kind of figure it out as we go. And I think for you, Katie, a lot has evolved in your world, too, from where you were to where you are now. So I kind of want to get your thoughts on how you're balancing it and how you're feeling because I think we don't spend enough time reflecting on that part.

[13:38] Katie: Yeah, no, I think that's really true. It's funny, I have been thinking recently about how happy I am with the balance in my life right now, because when we first started, I was a stay at home mom and I was wanting something more, so we did this. But then there was moments where it was so overwhelming because I hadn't worked in a decade. And then I have just gone back to my other job recently. And while there's a lot going on, I just feel like every box is being ticked right now. Like, I have my family time, I have my passion project, my passion job, which is this that's like, fun and so exciting. I have my work, which is also great, and I'm making my own money. So while the balance of it can be a struggle at times, it's very fulfilling and well rounded. And I've had moments where I thought, how are we going to keep doing this? But I think that happens when there's unnecessary pressure applied. And I think we've both been really smart about making sure we're just continuously enjoying it and not putting so much pressure on ourselves. And as long as we keep doing that, then we just keep plugging away and trucking away. And now we're doing everything that we do. It's like we could do it in our sleep.

[15:04] Amy: Exactly. I mean, looking back when we first started editing a podcast, we were like, wait, how do you do this? And how do you do this? And now we literally do everything, soup to nuts. And it's time consuming, but we know how to do it and we've become experts in it, which is so cool. I just love learning and to be able to learn a new craft and to be able to produce a podcast. And for people who don't do it, it's really hard to envision what goes into it. But there's probably like, I don't know, 250 steps from like A to Z right, to get it launched on a weekly basis. And it's a lot. And I think just being able to learn another skill set as you're moving along your life is so important. We're learning every week. Every time we talk to someone, we're learning new information. I think we're both learners and we love to learn, especially when it comes to something that we're personally passionate about. But just learning a new skill is so rewarding. I mean, just like, this is so technical and so different than what I do in my marketing role of big ideas and all this strategy work. And this is so technical editing and producing, but I really love it, like, getting into the nitty gritty. It's actually like I love producing the episodes and launching sometimes more than other things. I don't know why. And I know for you, Katie, you didn't know much about social media before, and you've learned how to use that tool really well. And I just think it's so cool.

[16:29] Katie: Yeah, I think so, too. I'm incredibly proud of us, and also we keep each other accountable and we keep each other in the game. And if there's a time where you're feeling stressed and crazy and you're not in it, then I try to reel you back in and vice versa. And there's also times where we're perfectly guilty of like, oh, I didn't get that done this week. But it's like we don't beat each other up either. It's like we get the critical stuff done and we keep moving forward. And as we've always said, progress over perfection. And I think that has gotten us very far.

[17:06] Amy: Yeah. And I think especially in the beginning, I think the first probably, I don't know, 2030 episodes were the most challenging because I think you and I struggled a lot and had open communication. Remember, we had some not blowouts, but we definitely had some tough conversations of like, well, who's doing this? And are we doing this every week? And DA DA DA. And, like, until we got our flow, it was like a little, like, tense, right? Like, there were definitely some tense times, looking back, but now I just feel like we're in the flow. And I think, too, I was going to go back to what I was saying about you going back to work. I've actually seen a huge difference because for you, I feel like you're more in a flow than you were before because I feel like it's because you're more structured, right. And, you know, you have to be certain places at certain times. Not that you didn't before, but it's just different. So you almost are more organized and more in the flow. Yeah, I see that. I don't know if you feel that.

[18:03] Katie: But I've definitely noticed that there has been a shift, for sure. And I think also just like, having something else, having my other job, it's released some of the pressure of this and allowed me to enjoy this for what it's always been. It's been our passion and it's fun, and we love doing it together. So I think that has a lot.

[18:27] Amy: To do with it. Yeah, I think you're right. You're totally right. I also think it's given us both more perspective. Like, now that you're back at work, you have a perspective of like, oh, now you sort of know. I know what you go through and you know what I go through when we have other responsibilities that are not just family. Right. And it's like, oh, my God, I have this deadline, or I'm working all day. I'm out and I'm like, okay, I'll do this or you'll do that. I think we bounce off each other really well. So anyway, I'm just trying to think about more fun stories. I think there's like so many random things that have happened throughout the last few years. I mean, I think, again, our guests have been amazing. I think people have been so generous with their time. People have given us so much time and so much of their expertise, and it's just been really gratifying. And again, just want to shout out to all the guests that have been on our show and even some guests more than once.

[19:22] Katie: Yeah, just how generous they have been with sharing their time with not their time, but sharing our podcast with their people and kind of just giving us more exposure and being excited about being on the podcast with us too. I mean, we've had some guests that have a million followers, we've had guests that have 500,000 followers and everything below and in between and above. So we've just been very fortunate. So thank you to all of our amazing guests. And we have amazing guests lined up and more to come, so it's all super exciting.

[20:00] Amy: Yeah, lots more to come. So with that being said, a couple really exciting announcements that Katie and I wanted to share with our amazing listeners. And thank you to our listeners for loving this as much as we do. We love doing it and we do it for you. We do it for us because we love it, but we do it for you more, so because we know you love it too. And you love to get in all the minutiae of the details of health, wellness, beauty like we do. So thank you again.

[20:28] Katie: Yeah, that's exactly what I was just thinking. We have always done this to share with you all because we want you to learn and have access and to have the ability to achieve anything and everything you want for your health and wellness journey. Whether that is just making sure you get in eight cups of water a day or the fact that you do Reiki healing and you work with crystals and you go and do face yoga. Whatever your journey may be, we are just really grateful that we can be a part of it and that we can help you along with it. So thank you.

[21:06] Amy: Yes, good point. And one last thank you before we get to our exciting announcements. Wanted to thank my husband Stu, who really is sort of been my partner in crime behind the scenes in this. He was the one who really gave me the motivation to do this because he knew that I'm an entrepreneur and at heart he knew I love all this stuff. And he's like, you got to do something with it because, yes, you have your other job, but you need to put all this effort into something else. Too, for you. And he kind of gave me a lot of motivation to really even start the idea. And he also came up with the word Nirvana because Katie and I had a list of 50 different titles, which are hilarious, which we should post about one day, but he actually came up with the word Nirvana and he really captured what we were trying to get at, like, what is your Nirvana? What's going to make you feel joyful? So shout out to Stew.

[22:04] Katie: Yeah, thank you still. And thank you to my husband, too. He's been incredibly supportive. Shout out to Adam.

[22:09] Amy: Yes, they've both been super supportive. Okay, a couple big updates.

[22:15] Katie: Big announcements.

[22:16] Amy: Big, I know. So, a few announcements as we close out this episode. So, I don't know if you all know, but we have a website, Nirvanasisters.com, which we've launched kind of in a soft way a couple of months ago. Don't know if any of you have seen it yet, but we've been linking out all of our show notes there and we wanted to just call it out because it's really exciting. We've been working on it behind the scenes for a long time and we're continuing to add to it. And so if you go onto the website now, you'll see every single podcast episode that we've had out, you'll see all the show notes, you'll see all the BIOS, you'll see all the product links. It's all there in the blog. And so we wanted to have a place where you all could go and reference just more content around all of our episodes. So that's really exciting. So we wanted to make sure you checked out Nirvanasisters.com when you get a chance. And Katie. What's next? What else do we have to announce?

[23:02] Katie: Also equally as exciting, the other thing you're going to find on our website is we now have Nirvana Sisters Merch yay. We have great swags, I mean, great sweatshirts and t shirts and tumblers and a hat that I'm obsessed with. Amy has a hat on.

[23:20] Amy: I'm showing everyone the hat. Kind of 1 second. I'm going to do this.

[23:25] Katie: Yeah, the hat's. Super cute.

[23:27] Amy: Everyone check out the hat.

[23:29] Katie: Love the hat. And then check out the sweatshirt and our new logo. My tea. Keep glowing. Nirvana Sisters. Tea. So there's a lot in there and we would love you to just go on there and get whatever you want. You can order it straight from the website. It's so fun. Come straight to your house. Yeah.

[23:47] Amy: That is going to be launching the day that this launches. So our shop will be launching Thursday, April 6, in conjunction with this episode. And like Katie said, there's sweatshirts, hats. We've got a coffee tumbler or coffee mug that says Daily Nirvana. We have a water bottle that says Nirvana in a bottle.

[24:07] Katie: We have a hoodie, a few great hoodies.

[24:11] Amy: Yeah, we've got a really awesome hoodie. We've got shirts that say a few different quotes like keep glowing and hustle and doses and different quotes from a lot of our episodes. And we're going to be continuing to add new products over the next few months. So tell us what you like and we'll keep working on it. We also have our new logo. We're really excited to share with you all, so please check out our website, check out our new store with all of our new merch support us. We are so excited. We've been working in the background on the design of all of our merch. It's really elevated and we're so excited for you all to check it out and let us know what you think. And we'll post some of these products on social throughout the week so you can get a little sneak peek of the shop.

[24:51] Katie: Yeah, exciting. All right. And then here's the last news, and it's very exciting. Amy, do you want to share?

[24:59] Amy: Sure. So we are now joined with Podcast Nation, which is a podcast network, and we are so excited to announce this news. So we're really excited to join the team at Podcast Nation. We started chatting with them a few months ago and they're an incredible group of women. There's about, I think, like 20 or 30 podcasts that are part of this network. And what that means for you is the show is growing, so we'll be connected to more people, more amazing podcasters, we'll have more access to guests. We'll probably be on some more podcasts, and we'll be on the Podcast Nation channel, on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, et cetera. And that's going to be happening over the next couple of weeks. But as of today, we've joined their network and we are super excited to be joining the Podcast Nation family. So thank you to that team for welcoming us with open arms as we start this journey with them. So more to come there, but wanted to make sure we shared all of our exciting updates. And again, thank you all for the last 100 episodes. Looking forward to hundreds more with my partner in crime, Katie. Anything else, Katie, before we close out?

[26:10] Katie: No, other than thank you. Thank you, thank you. We are so grateful. We are filled with gratitude for our listeners and our supporters and our guests. And this 100th episode is my Nirvana of the Week, I think of the year. So I don't know about you.

[26:27] Amy: Yeah, agreed, agreed. Huge milestone, Nirvana of the Day in the week, along with our other launches. It's all good stuff and more to come. So. Thank you. Nirvana Sisters family.

[26:37] Katie: Bye.

[26:38] Amy: Have a good week. Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us, tune in next. Week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to bye.

[27:04] Katie: You know.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Episode 99 - Wait!? Bread, Butter & Wine With Dinner? Portion Control, Exercise Tips, and Why Heavy Weights with Andrea Marcellus, PART 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 99

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

[00:07] Amy Sherman: Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana. We are Sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

[00:18] Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

[00:24] Andrea Marcellus: You. Um.

[00:27] Amy Sherman: Welcome back to the show. Nirvana Sisters Family. We are back with Andrea Marcellus for part two. If you didn't listen to last week's episode, make sure you listen to part one. It was really helpful. This week. We go through many different things, but one of the things we talk about are tips and strategies for eating, especially eating out, eating during the holidays. Andrea has some great techniques that she shared with us. We also talk about why accountability is key and a lot of exercising is a mental game. We talk about different tips for exercising for your age group, and we also get into what heavy weight means. I know for me, I hear lifting with heavy weights all the time, but I don't necessarily know what that means. So she gets into that as well, as well as a few other quick weight routines. Enjoy the episode and thanks for listening.

[01:18] Katie Chandler: I love that.

[01:19] Amy Sherman: Yeah, that's very freeing.

[01:20] Katie Chandler: Yeah, absolutely. So I want to know some quick and easy you've mentioned strategy. Strategy, strategy. And I know you have so many great little tips and strategies and things to use when you're dining out, and maybe just hit us with a couple of your favorites that tend to be really helpful for people.

[01:44] Andrea Marcellus: Well, I can give you dining out. Strategy and holiday strategy are sort of the same thing. I measure food in hand portions because we're getting away from calorie counting or anything like that, and we figure out what's an energy appropriate portion of food for you. So when you approach holidays or you approach, just say, eating out, just try to think in terms of the total portion. How many hands are you going to try to eat at this meal? Like, probably two, three hands. Something in there, right? So I think of it that way. So I definitely sit down, I order a glass of wine. I get bread and butter because I love bread and butter. Oh, my God, wine and bread. I know. I'm everybody's best people. Like, my clients would be like, the first time I would go out to eat with a client for it and everybody's trying to eat right in front of me. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm ordering the pizza.

[02:44] Amy Sherman: Oh, my God, I love it.

[02:46] Andrea Marcellus: I know, but I didn't. I came from the other place. But anyway, so then you start to think about especially if you've been horse and controlling for a while, your stomach's smaller, so you have to think about it. So if, like, appetizers come out, I go, okay, I'm going to have three bites because there's other things I want. If a salad comes, I'm going to eat half the salad because I'm saving room for dinner and dessert. Dinners that come at a restaurant are always at least two food, maybe three. And you can go, okay, and this is my lunch for tomorrow. Like, I'm having this and then you know, I'm going to have this awesome, delicious lunch. That's amazing. And then you have some bites of dessert. But by thinking of it beforehand in terms of, okay, how many hands of food am I going to eat rather than like, trying to I didn't mention at all what I was eating except for bread and butter. Right. It doesn't matter what you eat. If you're portion controlling your social meals, it truly doesn't matter. And if you're optimizing the meals you don't share to be highly nutritious, boy, are you living a good life and you're setting yourself up for great health. Yeah. You're not skip the broccoli and eat all the things you can't get except for that holiday. Just portion control.

[04:04] Amy Sherman: It so about portion control and about the hand idea, I love that I guess it's dependent on the person, but generally speaking, right. How many hands should you have? Because I think we've completely like as a society have no idea because the portions in America are so big that we're all overeating because it's just there, right? Yeah. So what's a good maybe thing to think about?

[04:30] Andrea Marcellus: So in my app I have a chart that's a starter chart. And please keep in mind I literally made this up from a vision. This is literally just a guidepost. I've been doing this particular thing with people for over 15 years and it's literally just a guide to help you figure out what's best for you. And the goal is to be satisfied and have energy to take you just from meal to meal. Nobody here is a farmer. Basically, like, we don't have to eat a big breakfast so that we can get on with the day. And I already established that eating to maintain a workout lifestyle is only going to work if you are a professional athlete or if you are somebody with a very specific physical goal. You're training for an event or you're a bodybuilder. So if you're any of those people, don't listen to me right now. For the rest of us who are just busy working people and want to be able to go out and drink wine and eat bread, start with a breakfast within an hour of waking up or trying to eat one hand of food, or maybe two if you're one of those people. And then that's when the clock starts the day and you eat every two to 4 hours and you're trying to eat for snacks or small meals, you're eating one hand. For lunch or dinner, you're eating two hands. And see how that does for you. And notice I'm not telling you what a hand means. You figure it out for yourself. And I mean, I help people through this, obviously, this is what I do, but that's a guideline I could give you to kind of try to start yourself. The key is with all of these things is accountability. So we all have best intentions. And this is why I'm very happy to offer out my habits or my strategies, because I've been doing this a really long time. The missing piece of all this is when people are making a shift in life and they realize they need to make a change. Accountability helps so much. And there was one study I read where accountability increases your chance of success by 85%.

[06:45] Amy Sherman: Wow.

[06:46] Andrea Marcellus: 85%. And so it's really important to either have the help of a coach or to do things with someone else or in a group or whatever. I can't encourage that enough. And this is coming from someone who never asks for help. I just don't I'm just learning to do that. I think last year, so maybe at 49, I'm getting better. I'm 50 now. I've been doing it for about a year and a half. No, but asking for help changes your life and two, doing things in groups. I've been this lone wolf my whole life in so many ways, and only in the last little bit do I have some groups of like I have a CEO group, I have mentors, I have my bestie girlfriends that I've had forever. But sometimes I'll just get bogged down at work and not rely on that so much. Or I don't want to waste the time telling them stuff that's wrong. Well, I've learned that, wow, groups help, and I can't encourage that enough. So if you decide, look, I'm ready to make a change in my life and I want it to be a real one and a lasting one, you got to go slow and steady. You have to respect yourself and really define who you are before you even start. And then you get help. You get people to keep you accountable, you get people to keep you positive, and you make sure you tell those people your purpose. Motivation comes from purpose. And when you say your purpose out loud to people, it ends up being like in stone. And you can change your purpose, but it really, really helps. It's like dropping a flag, implanting a flag of, this is who I am and this is where I'm headed, and everybody just watch me and please cheer me on.

[08:37] Katie Chandler: I love that. That's great. That is so true. Especially the accountability piece. I mean, I think Amy and I can speak for that just because we've doing this. We have been each other's accountability partner, and I think we're like, approaching 100 episodes, so it says a lot about having somebody to cheer you on and to help you out.

[08:59] Amy Sherman: Yeah, it's so true because there's so many times and also just like, just what you were talking about for exercise groups. Like, I have friends in the neighborhood, and we'll make a plan to do a walk on the weekend. And sometimes you're like, I don't feel like going. But then you're accountable. You're like, you know what? I'm not going to bail on this person. And then you go and you feel so much better. But if you had not made that plan, you would never do it yourself because it's just too hard to motivate yourself sometimes 100%.

[09:23] Andrea Marcellus: It's a mental game. Again, a mental game. I put a feature in my app, literally, just because of this. I made up this thing where so these custom workouts, you can dial up like, you know, I have regular classes, but it's another feature, like, and you can dial up like, there's, I don't know, 30 options in there. You can even say, like, I don't want to mess up my hair. I'm at my desk. I don't want to mess up my hair. I got to zoom. I have ten minutes. Let's do something. But what's cool is you can invite other people to do the workout, live with you on your phone. It's a silent feature. So this was like I was thinking about, why do people come to me? It's to have someone to talk to or to have an appointment time. We're going to do this so you could make up a workout and then text it to your friend and be like, hey, let's meet and do this. And it's really cool, and it's a way of creating that accountability around workouts so that you actually show up for them, because you are more likely to show up for yourself when it involves someone else. Just look at your to do list today. When you look at what actually got to done, it's the things that involved somebody else, and the stuff that was just for you is like, kicked down the list, and maybe you'll get a couple of those things done, but everything for somebody else got done first.

[10:40] Amy Sherman: So true.

[10:41] Katie Chandler: Well, speaking of exercise, a couple of tips to get some exercise in. And also I saw on your TikTok page recently you were suggesting low intensity steady state for a certain age group and high intensity interval training for a different age group. Walk us through that because I'm just so curious as to why.

[11:04] Andrea Marcellus: Okay, that's a great question. All right, so both of them will burn fat and burn calories. People want to say that high intensity intervals burn way more fat or calories. Like, well, no. A recent study showed for all things kept equal, this one group lost three and a half pounds, where the other group lost two and a half pounds. Doing steady state, like, it's not a massive amount, so everybody take a breath. But here's the difference. Steady state, the low intensity steady state workouts, they are gentler, they're easier. People get into them. You kind of zone out for some people that's easier to stay consistent with. They train your stamina and especially if you're younger exercise. What we want to be training in life is stamina at that point, right? And they increase Vo two max. The volume of oxygen your lungs can push out to your heart with every single breath. The amount of oxygen your heart can push out with every single beat to get your muscles going. So that's important. The thing is that they have to be longer workouts and you risk overuse injuries. So that is something people that hang out on the treadmill all day, it's like imagine it's repetitive motion activities or runners, things like that. So just a couple of considerations there high intensity interval are really important, particularly for perimenopausal or menopausal women, for two reasons. Because they increase insulin sensitivity, your body's ability to respond well to smaller and smaller amounts of insulin. So as opposed to insulin resistance, which packs pounds on your body, okay? And we already have more Cortisol floating around your body at that time. We already have a hormonal disadvantage going on. So we definitely want to improve our insulin sensitivity. And the other thing about it is that you get this thing called epoch. It's post exercise oxygen consumption. So what happens during hip workouts are two things. One, you have stored glycogen in your muscle, that's your muscle sugar. And hip workouts are so demanding that they use up those glycogen stores very quickly. You feel that you can't go very long. They also deplete the oxygen you have available. So your body is rushing to kind of restore those glycogen stores. And in that process it requires insulin. So your body gets very responsive to insulin again, it improves that if it was not happening for you. And at that stage of life, we get a little insulin resistant. Also, when your body is restoring the oxygen levels to where they need to be, that takes hours. And so that's where after hit workouts, you get this increased metabolism, this increased fat burn for hours. And in perimenopausal and menopausal, women, there is a tendency to put on belly fat and for the body to be depositing fat. So anything that keeps us in a state where our metabolism is lifted a bit for a while is going to be helpful. So that's what that's about. They're good for everybody all the time. But a particular recommendation for, say, my age group and I talk about this all the time. I love hanging out on my Stairclimber and I do travel reservations and my text and I answer people, all the people that message me on TikTok, I'm probably on an elliptical machine or something messaging you back. But actually it works against me at this point and can increase stress. So I actually have to dial it down myself right now.

[14:56] Katie Chandler: So there is a really important piece, though, that you mentioned on the piece of content that I saw about doing hit and how some people are doing it wrong because they're not actually bringing the heart rate all the way back down. And so when you don't bring it all the way back down, I imagine that's when it starts to raise cortisol levels and become a little bit more problematic. So is that the key? You get the heart rate up and.

[15:20] Andrea Marcellus: Then yeah, it's huge. I'm so glad you brought this up because, boy, if I want to give anybody a tip, it's like, gosh, this is taught improperly everywhere, all the time. More is not more. So when you're in the Spinning class, you're doing your Peloton, you're doing your Orange Theory, you're doing whatever, like the entire concept of Orange Theory where it's like this leaderboard and it's about calorie burn. It's like, oh, my goodness gracious, those people on that board have nothing to do with you. And by the way, if you're tired, your heart's going to be faster. If you're dehydrated again, remember, I said whole humanity. These things are so arbitrary and artificial. So what they do is they're pushing people to push themselves, but not with a purpose, not with a goal. The goal isn't who can burn the most calories. The goal isn't how high can you keep your heart rate up for so long? The benefit to your body comes in the zero to 60, right? It's in the acceleration. Stay in there for a second and bring it back down. Those are the intervals. That's where it happens. So if you don't bring it all the way back down to what I call a four out of ten, then you are not getting the full benefit of that, and you are just burning out muscle sugar. And then what happens there is you feel funky afterwards. And then what do you do? You start going to eat things or drink things to try to feel normal again. And guess what? You ingested more calories than you even burned during that workout. And I know this personally. This is what happened to me over exercising as an instructor and for myself, and I'm a Spinning instructor as well. I'm telling you, when I started to really understand the science of what was going on and I changed, and it's to being gentler, where you come all the way down, then you go back up again. For us, it feels like you're slacking. It feels like and it's like, no, that's the way to do it. It's so funny. Less is a great reminder.

[17:34] Amy Sherman: That is a good reminder because I haven't done a hit workout in a while. I've been doing more low impacts, but I don't even know in my hip workouts, if I get to a point where I'm a four out of ten, I feel like they're exhausting. It's probably why I haven't done them in a while. I'm going to remember that super demotivating.

[17:50] Andrea Marcellus: But here's the thing I like to say like you're asking me for tips. I'm big on desk workouts. I don't think anybody has more. I do plain clothes desk workouts all the time. And what's awesome is you can do a hit workout between a zoom. You can sit there and it can be 90 seconds of squats, anything. And boy, not only are you going to give yourself a little metabolism boost and you're going to reframe your brain, you're oxygenating your entire body. Most importantly, you're oxygenating your brain. You're going to be able to focus on whatever's coming next in your day. And the best part, just do that for 90 seconds and tell me that you want, like, chocolate or potato chips. You don't. All you want is water. So if you're having these snack cravings in the afternoon, just doing any 60 to 90 seconds of any exercise, you know, that gets your heart rate up, boom. You're not going to want anything. It's going to get you through that moment.

[18:45] Amy Sherman: That's so great. I wanted to ask you two things. Firstly, if hit, let's say, is recommended for someone who's Perry, right? Mid 40s, mid 50s, right. Does that mean you should only do that or does that mean you should do it a certain amount a week? Or can you combine it with lower? Like, what do you recommend there?

[19:06] Andrea Marcellus: Fantastic question. No, we definitely don't want to do hits two days in a row. You have to give your body rest. And again, we are always trying not to have stress and we certainly don't want to increase stress on the body. So you want to keep these sessions shorter? I don't do it ever for more than 20 minutes or so. It's always part of something. And the workout bar in general keeps shorter and just activate your life. More of a standing and walking. You'll be doing much better, but definitely skipping a day, so maybe three days a week or something like that. And yeah, the same with your heavy weight workouts. You want to be very careful about that. Like, you have to have rest. That is one of the biggest mistakes people make. They're pushing, they want results fast. And it's hard to believe that just strategized and gentle is going to get you there.

[20:01] Amy Sherman: Let me ask you, you just said about the heavyweight workouts, and that's what I really wanted to hone in on because I don't really know what that means. What is a heavy weight? Is it £10, is it £20? And how much of that you should be doing? I used to have a trainer years ago and I did a lot of weights and it was good, but it was a little too intense. And now I'm like, I really need to get back into this strength training. Katie has been really into it lately, but it just feels like I don't know where to start. I don't know how long, et cetera, et cetera. If you could give our audience some little tips and strategies there. We'd love it.

[20:37] Andrea Marcellus: Sure. It doesn't have to be super long. It has to exhaust you and just muscle, exhaustion of the muscle you're trying to work. So that amount of time is going to be different for every person. So what you need to do is make sure that you're lifting heavy enough so that your form starts to suffer at the 9th or 10th repetition. That's kind of what the definition of a heavy weight. So whatever the exercise is, that's where you want to be. I tend to, on heavy weight days, go with a we're doing them, what, three days a week, something like that, because you're leaving a day in between. And then I might do lighter weights on other days and all sorts of things and body weight workouts. But what you really kind of want to stick to a more traditional weight training protocol for the best results with your heavy weights because also your joints are going to be aligned properly so that you avoid injury. So that's not a great place for choreography. As much as I love it, you want to kind of just really watch your form and three sets of ten. It's a good way to go. And the best thing is that it's a no brainer. Put the weights at your desk, do your three sets of ten.

[21:59] Amy Sherman: Sorry to be like so specific, but is it just three sets of ten of something or is it like several exercises? Three sets of.

[22:09] Andrea Marcellus: But I can't make you a workout here on a podcast.

[22:13] Amy Sherman: Why not?

[22:16] Andrea Marcellus: But I mean, if we wanted to break it down to the least, like your body has to work in opposites. If you're doing a bicep curl, you must do a tricep. If you're doing your shoulders I would say for the people listening here, if we wanted to really no brainer this, you're going to do a bicep curl, you're going to go a tricep kickback, you're going to do some kind of overhead press and you can call it a day. If you're really a good super achiever, you're going to do some desk push ups or some regular push ups. I'm a fan of regular push ups and getting yourself to be able to do those. And I have a great video on how to work yourself up to plank push ups, which you change as a person mentally once you can start doing those. And then you would do some bent over rows and then you would go chest back, bicep, tricep, deltoid, bam, back on my I love it.

[23:11] Amy Sherman: What's funny, you have a piece of content that I haven't bookmarked and I use it all the time. It was like for busy people, it was like the arm one where you're like, do you have this lab or whatever? I've literally done that video so many times. And it's great because you said earlier where you stand on 1ft and you do the breathing. But in this one, it was standing on 1ft and putting the foot behind and doing I think it was like bicep curls or something like that. And I love that video for our listeners on her TikTok. She's got all these fun. It's your point of like, you have five minutes in between a call. Just go on a TikTok, watch one of your videos, do one of those things, and there you go. There's like one set down for the day. I have a feeling it's really great.

[23:51] Katie Chandler: All of this is on your app probably, as well. You probably have so many resources on your app as well.

[23:57] Amy Sherman: Yeah.

[24:00] Andrea Marcellus: Like this, too. I mean, yeah, there's regular workouts, but there are workouts where I literally wore plain clothes to shoot them. I wore what I wear to work so that it's clear you are not required to change your clothes to think about fitness. And I think that's my big thing. I'm trying to change the way America thinks about fitness and fitting it into your life. Not that it's like this separate piece you have to make time for nobody. We can't do that, but we absolutely can show up for ourselves in small bites. And the fact is, the results are better. And there was just a study, again, about this that just came I love it when there's a study that comes out that kind of validates the way I've been doing things with people that I just find actually works for them, for their lifestyle. But a study just came out this week that the benefits for your heart of working out between eleven and five are higher than if you work out in the morning or the evening. So these little bits I'm telling people to do during the day. I guess your heart likes it.

[25:12] Katie Chandler: Great. It's very interesting.

[25:14] Amy Sherman: Before we get into our wrap session, where can everybody find you? Because I know everyone's going to be clamoring for all these. Your content and your app and your website. Give us all the deets to do.

[25:25] Andrea Marcellus: Is go to andlife.com and like, Andrea lifelikeyourlifeandlife.com. And you can see my one on one program. You can see group programs if you want me to come to your company. And then you can also see my app, my book. There's so many tools to help people. I really have tried to make it so that it is not about cost, that it doesn't matter what your budget is, it doesn't matter what's going on in your life, that I have some way to help you show up for yourself and feel better now. And that's really what it is.

[26:05] Katie Chandler: That's fantastic.

[26:06] Andrea Marcellus: And then, of course, I'm on Instagram at Andrew Marcellus. I'm on TikTok. I think it's Andrew Marcellus. Official. I'm on YouTube. I'm like, I have stuff everywhere.

[26:15] Amy Sherman: And you do virtual coaching. If anyone's interested in doing one on one, that's what I do.

[26:20] Andrea Marcellus: My programs are all and we have really clever ways that I fit into your busy life. And it's pretty cool. The results are insane when you sign up for a call with me because I have to do a call with people and really understand where you're coming from, make sure it's a fit because nobody fails. And I go all in on people. Nobody fails. It's pretty cool. And you get sent a thing with just videos of real people going, oh, my goodness, it's so easy. It's so much easier than what people thought. So I'm just so proud and happy of what we've been able to accomplish and just watching people level up when they've just been struggling with this for so long. And making this a non conversation so that our lives can be about more important, more exciting, more fun things and helping people bring joy and a great relationship with food, which connects us to each other. It's so gratifying. Really cool.

[27:17] Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's really wonderful. We absolutely love what you're doing. All right, so let's get into our.

[27:22] Andrea Marcellus: I'm So Glad wrap session.

[27:24] Katie Chandler: Our first question is for you, Andrea. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

[27:29] Andrea Marcellus: Oh, my gosh. Well, my favorite wellness hack in general is my brain reframe I do when I'm making my courage coffee. I talk to people about strategizing, like making rituals in your day. And it's one place where I just practice focus, and I know it takes about 90 seconds for my courage to make it. So I don't allow myself to do anything but focus on the sounds of that and that's activating brain centers that would shut off the amygdala. That's my stress reframe in the day. So that's one of my favorite wellness hacks. Like that you find a little thing you already do. I also plant whatever it is, but you just give yourself something and it becomes your ritual. And then as soon as you go to do that thing every day and if you just focus on it, your brain starts to know that's a safe harbor for you and immediately goes into that state of relaxation. It's pretty rad. And then my beauty hack is anastasia has this thing called Italian Summer, and it's a palette, a contouring palette and a blush, whatever. This is all I use because you can use it for your eyes or your face. I have no time. I am all about what is the easiest one product I can use, and I have to say I'm a huge fan.

[28:47] Amy Sherman: Oh, I haven't heard of that. I got to check that out. Very cool.

[28:51] Andrea Marcellus: Yeah. A contour, a blush, a highlighter. Perfect my eyes.

[28:56] Amy Sherman: And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

[29:01] Andrea Marcellus: Oh, my gosh. This is such a good question. How do I maintain? I live according to a code, and I have built just a little life of little habits that are easy to maintain and where. I end up showing up for myself in small ways throughout the day, every day. And so it doesn't matter what comes flying at me in a day. I always have something that I'm doing that lifts me up, and literally, it shoots out dopamine. And I know that, but that's what I try to help people do, is create for themselves. I call it a self care scaffolding, but that's how I maintain my nirvana. I love what I do. It doesn't mean it's all always going right, but boy, do I love what I do. And I have ways that I lift myself all day long. I love it. I know.

[29:57] Katie Chandler: It is inspiring. It's very inspiring. All right, well, Andrea, thank you so much for being with us today. We were so excited to talk to you. And like we said earlier, we both feel like we know you because we watch everything you do on TikTok, but.

[30:12] Andrea Marcellus: You I love it. That's so amazing.

[30:15] Katie Chandler: For sure. I want to thank you all over.

[30:19] Andrea Marcellus: Your work is helping people. This is a wonderful, wonderful space you've created. And the conversations you're having are important and vital and really meaningful. And so I'm honored to be here and I appreciate it so much. I'm so glad.

[30:32] Katie Chandler: Thank you.

[30:33] Amy Sherman: Thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would, please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 98 - What To Do When Your Busy Life Is Sabotaging Your Wellness Success With Fitness Expert Andrea Marcellus - Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 98

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Unknown: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman. And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. We are sitting down today with Andrea Marcellus, a Los Angeles based fitness expert and life strategist for over 30 years Andrea is the founder and CEO of and life it's a life maximization brand with a mission to help busy people prioritize their physical and mental well being with minimal effort and sacrifice. We all need that offering unique. So she offers uniquely engaging solutions to both individual consumers and large scale organizations. And life is scaling Andrea's personalized, proven wellness methods via its proven shape up body and mind program. Live and online events. The enlive total fitness lifestyle up and connect workday, wellbeing video library. Andrea is also the author of the top rated book the way in five winning strategies to lose weight, get strong and lift your life. So we have so many questions for Andrea she Aye. Aye. Well, both of us came across Andrea on Tik Tok. And she has the most amazing content and gives such great tips and strategies and those little brief tick tock snippets. So we're so excited to have you here. Welcome to the show, Andrea. Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure to be here. Before we get started. Let's go ahead and kick it with a nirvana of the week. Amy, do you want to do you want to start? Yes. So So I guess there's been a few Nirvana's this week, but I'll say one, okay, so my Nirvana this week was an exciting one. And it's actually something Katie and I can't really talk about yet, but it's coming soon. We just signed a contract on something really exciting that we will unveil soon, but that was definitely one of my Nirvana's this week. So super excited to share all with our Nevada sisters family soon. Yeah, agreed. What about one of my Nirvana's as well, it can't wait till we can spread that news. It's very exciting. The secret secret secret nirvana? Yeah, so that was a highlight. But I had another Nirvana this this morning. We're having a some friends over for dinner tomorrow. And for the first time in I don't know how many years. I cooked for hours without a child at my feet without my husband saying I need this without having to like multitask or be somewhere I made. The time. I think that was the key why it was so enjoyable and relaxing. Because I said, I'm all I'm doing on Friday morning is cooking might be Forgan Yan for Saturday night. That's what I did. It was very relaxing. And I enjoyed it. That's amazing. So that was mine. What about you, Andrea? Oh, nice. I love that. I have a couple one, my son got 100 on this math test that he had taken twice and yay. Even though we do it, and it's like, you know, when you're a parent, and you're trying to help your kid, you know, achieve something that's hard for them. It's it was pretty cool. So that was one. And the other is I and we are having friends over tonight to play dominoes. I love playing games. I love fun. And I can't I can't tell you when the last time we've had friends, like without realizing it. It's just been a very busy time. And then, you know, sometimes you just don't make plans. So we made some plans and I've been excited about it all week. Yeah, that's so fun games like game night. That's great. I haven't done that in years. And it really is a such a great time. So yeah, that's, that's exciting. It'd be a fun Friday night. It sure will. Alright, well, let's kick it off. It's funny that you say that just really quickly because I have been hearing about this lately. But my son, I have two boys, Andrea 13 and 16. And my 13 year old is going to a party tonight. And it's like a murder mystery whodunit party, and they all get dressed up and like it's this little thing and a friend of mine at Worlds same thing. She did something like that a few weeks ago, and I was like, I love these fun interactive parties. Yeah. That's very Yeah, it's a great thing. Well, you know, it gets you out of your head. That's the whole thing like these and we'll talk a lot about stress relief today. But like that's, that's part of it. Like just even knowing oh my gosh, all I need to focus on right now is Mexican train. That's amazing. You know if you can fully focus, the good. That's really fun if you're like alright, well let's get into it because we have a lot to ask you. And first thing that that we are trying Amiens You're trying to understand. So you're a fitness expert. But it's not just fitness as an exercise and working out and going to the gym, you encompass the whole thing, the the mind, the body, the nutrition, the health, all of that, how did that start? And just tell us a little bit about about that. Yeah, because fitness is actually more about your mind than your body. That is what I've come to understand. That's the, you know, the spoiler alert moment of this whole thing I started in exercise. And you know, that's, I would say, that's truly my gift. People love working out with me. And that's what people would come for. Because I don't know, if you came and worked out with me today, I would come up with stuff I have never done before watching you move, and we would just make up things, and I'd see what your body is good at. And I'd also see where there are areas of challenge, I can just see it and I can make things up really fast. And on the fly. And that's like my gift. So that's what I love. But what I came to understand, starting out just as a trainer, essentially in a class instructor was wow, this is only a very small part of the equation. And really, it's our relationship with food. And, you know, I really the interesting thing is I spent the first 16 years of it's going to be 31 year career in in July 1 16 years doing everything you and everybody else thinks they need to do to you know, be fit. And I was an actress, I wasn't even supposed to be doing this. I went to NYU for acting, I was supposed to be a star. So this was just an artist. Thanks so much. It was just so different than what I thought. But it's awesome. You know, and it's, it's interesting. I, I was trying so hard to be super fit and back. Now this is 30 years ago. So that was like the Kate Moss era, you weren't even allowed to be like a normal human. And the harder and harder. I tried to be lean, the more weight I gained. And part of it was stress. And part of it was a really bad training strategy, which was overtraining and workout lifestyle, I call it and not really developing a really good relationship with food. I mean, it was terrible. And at a certain point, I didn't even gain 25 pounds. It was like muscle, I didn't need a layer of flab that would never go trying to maintain that workout lifestyle. A lot of people get into this rut and it was somewhere in my early 30s It was about 33 I had a celebrity client coming in. And I remember staring at the wall and going you know, I was putting together the calories in calories out equation thinking what we're going to do with this guy and I remember going this doesn't work. Like honest to goodness, this doesn't work. It's it. I mean, I'm to where I'm at, which is not even to my personal goal white knuckling it. All my clients are white knuckling it, like and it's it's just there's got to be a better way. And so what I did was start guinea pigging myself with a kinder gentler approach to the entire thing and developing a really great friendship with food. Through that very much a less is more process. And then I started introducing it to my clients who would be game for going a different route. I mean, nobody was talking about this short workouts, workouts interspersed between the day and eating all the foods, not eliminating anything unless you have a medical reason, and really working on bringing joy into your life. And the people that would do that they shrunk pretty quickly too. And before I knew it, I was starting to write a book and I was starting to codify it into a methodology and then that's become what what I do now, that's really amazing because I can see how it's all stress related. Like you were saying you're overtraining and huge stress on the body. You're overly focused on calories, that's a stress on you mentally and emotionally. You're you know, you're like people starve themselves. You're thinking about food and you have that mental stress. Right? So I get why I use the you know, it's stress, it's directly related to stress. What would you say because I've seen some of your your tips and and also some of the some of the like the little things that you talk about like food soothing and things like that. Let's talk let's talk about that. Food soothing. Yeah. So I mean and this is the really interesting thing and why I talked about my program is called the shape of body and mind program and it really I would almost call it mind and body because it comes it starts with your brain. So when we think about food, soothing, and I you know, and I just want to say right from the get go. The only reason I know anything about all of this is because I personally We know it, I've done everything. I mean, I done all this like and I, How did I manage to get myself to stop? It wasn't from some, you know, diet plan or meal plan or willpower certainly wasn't. It was behavioral changes. And you have to understand like, Well, where are those behaviors coming from? So in terms of food soothing, you have your vagus nerve, and it you know, runs from your brain, it connects. Basically, think of it this way, in layman's terms, there's your jaw, your lungs, your gut, so you have a gut feeling about something that's for real. When your body you're like, out of nowhere, you are kind of stressed out and you just go, you take a big deep breath. That's your vagus nerve, like showing up for you trying to get you to drop a notch trying to help your central nervous system, you know, take you down a notch because you're you're too keyed up and your jaw. Think about this when we were babies, you know, what did we have we had a pacifier there, that nerve in your jaw, it will help to soothe you. So now as adults, what do we do? We sit in front of Netflix, and we chew and chew and chew. So it's like, well, if these are our soothing mechanisms, like well, how can we use them to our advantage? Or how can we, you know, stay away from this mechanism of using our jaw to chew and use something else, because we're not going to stop the stressors from coming into our life, we have to get better at how we respond to them. So what I do is, I help people develop one in the moment stress management strategies where we take anxious energy, worried energy triggered energy, anger, and we shift that it's just energy energy is energy, right? So you can take that energy. And if you have some tools and some practice, you can quickly shift it into positive energy and energy that goes towards a positive purpose in your life, it's pretty cool. So you can always think of something that's triggering you is actually an opportunity to go get something done. And then we work on teaching your brain not to over respond to stress so much in the first place. And then that keeps you at a hormonal advantage. So not only is it easier to lose weight, if you need to do that, but then to maintain it very, very important. So it's, this is where calories in calories out fails, that that whole or macro count take or that whole approach, they fail because they don't take into account your humanity. The fact is, everything is running from your brain, and your brain is operating off of feelings. And you know, feelings aren't a math equation, you're not a math equation. And you know, those approaches do not take into account, you know, even more basic things like hydration, sleep, if you're in laws or in town, if your dog if you just want a prize, you know, like if you're at your wedding, and even if celebrations you see what I mean. So you've got to take your whole humanity into account and how that's impacting on your brain. And then how the brain is responding hormonally to that. I love that whole philosophy. Can you give us an example of like you were saying, if you're stressed strategies to you know, turn that around, like, give us examples of what that looks like, Oh, I'd love to, here's one of my best that I give people quickly all the time that anybody could do. So your brain, your attention and your brain, you it operates like a flashlight, right? So you have different brain centers, and you can only have certain things on or else the flashlight goes in the other direction. So think of it that way. When you're triggered, you have this amygdala in your brain, it is only triggered by one of two things threat or scarcity. So in our modern times fear city is I'm not going to have enough time energy or funds. And threat is I'm going to look stupid, or I'm unlovable it every you know, I'm going to I'm whittling this down to just I'm gonna look bad, right you get it's an ego thing. So when something like that happens, that amygdala starts pumping out adrenaline and cortisol, the cortisol, we all know that's going to create a problem with insulin that we all that's been talked about a lot everybody listening to this gets the concept of why that's not awesome. But the adrenaline becomes the issue the adrenaline, when you don't have a lion to run from our burning building, you know, and you have all this adrenaline and makes you snappy, it makes you moody and makes you make quick decisions that will soothe you in the short term immediately, but they often go against your long term goals. So the key is to short circuit, this amygdala, that when when you're triggered, and it's starting to send out what are designed to be protective hormones. This is designed to protect you to help you survive, you know, but you can teach your brain I got it, I got it. One of the simplest ways is to combine a balanced move with breath in some sort of coordination. So I literally just have people stand on one foot and just lift your heel towards your tush and then put it back down and And then just lifted up and put it back down and your hands are in front of your desk, your abdominals are deep, your shoulder blades are sliding down your back, you have the best posture, you can and you're just lifting your leg up and down, lift the heel up and down. And then we add the breath into it, and you'll take it, two counts up, and four counts down, two counts up, four counts down. That's all we're doing. So what's happening here, we're activating the hippocampus, the cerebellum and the prefrontal cortex. When those things are active, and the flashlight is in that direction, guess what has no light on it whatsoever, the amygdala, the brain cannot multitask. So in that little moment, what it takes your brain to accomplish, just lifting your heel towards your tush and putting it back on the floor with a coordinated breath means you can't be worrying, the body cannot be shooting out adrenaline and cortisol, it's busy doing something else. And in those short moments, we give ourselves enough that we can actually break away from that feeling. Now we're down a notch, you can restart your day, you know, from a different place. And over time, and with practice, we train our brain not to overstate but rover respond to stress so much in the first place. So that is one of the simplest ways that's fascinating. Yeah, I'm gonna be trying that later. For sure. Yeah, and then you said something before, which caught my attention, which was, because we're all guilty of this, but I definitely am of like, this food soothing, and like, you know, watching a show, or even like, you know, just that the habit of you know, when we used to which no one goes to movies anymore, but go to the movies and get popcorn, you know, it's just like that habit? What is a good strategy to get your mind off of like, those cravings? Are those like, oh, I need to have something sweeter? Oh, I need it. Or I need to eat while I'm watching TV. And you're not even hungry. But it just makes you feel better for some reason. Like, do you have any good tips there? Sure do. That's the whole method I teach. Because you can't, you can't, you can't get your mind not to do something. Things don't exist in the negative they only exist in the positive. So what do you do? What you do is you teach yourself and this is what I do with people individually, it's very individual. But what is the schedule of eating that is best for your body in the energy appropriate portions, these portions of the key? Figuring out what kind of amount of beneficial fats and proteins you need throughout the day and where I'm headed with this. And especially because it's usually night food, soothing, you know, we all everything like air quotes, good during the day, and then I lose it. Or on the weekends, what you have to do is make it so it is not a matter of willpower, that literally your stomach is full, that literally you can't eat another bite. And it's hard to trust because what people do is they go, Well, I'm going to eat a lot tonight. So I don't eat all day. Well, this is actually the opposite strategy of what you need to be doing. We need to be eating regularly throughout the day. High quality foods you need to give yourself social foods at night is what I call them, they might be less beneficial, but they feed our soul. And the afternoon snack is the absolute key if your afternoon snack includes a protein and or a beneficial fat. And it's just it can be very small, but it's something in that afternoon, so you do not go into dinner hungry, then the dinner won't open the floodgates for you and you will have been satisfied all day. And if you do this day after day, it only takes about three days or so you will find that at night when you sit in front of TV or something. You're actually like, wow, I'm good. Like you can have a little something, you have to be a little bit mindful for half a second. But what what actually happens is, is if you do this, you know day after day, and then a week or two goes by it actually becomes physically uncomfortable to just graze grazing is the enemy. And but you can't just go I'm not going to graze that's white knuckling it again, we have to practices in place where that is not your preference anymore. And the best way I know is making it so that the way you live is that if my stomach is too full, if I graze I become overfall it is actually physically uncomfortable. And I stop you you were in my head this past week with your afternoon snack being a protein and a good fat and I've been doing it all week and I did I do notice a difference. And the other thing also at what was I didn't see that one. Oh the on tick tock. Yeah, what was the protein that I was going to ask? Like, what are good, like, examples of what are your favorites? Yes, yeah. What are the good fats that you're gonna have with some protein? Oh my gosh, there's so many right. But here's here's a easy way to do it. I think what did you have for dinner last night? Generally people have like some I don't know there's soy protein and some vegetables. Just eat a little of that. If you don't have it if it's too hard to put something together but like, you know, a quarter of an avocado was something avocado is one of the best foods in the whole world. I have a recipe on my and Life app called chia seed pudding. This is a life changer for most people. Like, I can't wait to go to Starbucks and tell them you need to sell this. Yeah, sorry, I literally just came up with this one day, like, you know, and like, it's the one everybody loves, because you can make so many variations of it. But you're getting your omega three fatty acids. And you're, you know, it's just absolutely delicious, just a few bites of that. But truly, it could be anything, often, I will just throw an egg in a pan with some olive oil and some spinach and the eggs on one side, that spinach on the other side, it takes what 94 seconds to make that. And that's my afternoon snack, you got to think real food. And if it's coming in a package walk away, there is something fresh in your refrigerator that is going to take you less like no time. And again, you know, if real food is the key, real food is the path, not only to, you know, if you have to lose weight, you know, and to be well and to, you know, to feel lean and strong. But it's the path to longevity, we're getting nutrition, we're relying on these bars, or a protein powder or something. And I mean, I'm 50. So you know, collagen powder might, you know, into your life at a certain point when your protein meats go higher. But this is not what we want to rely on. You want to like every opportunity you can to get something from nature in your body that's going to nutritionally level you up, that's what you want to do. Yeah, that's a really good reminder. Because I definitely fall in the camp sometimes, like get in the phase of like, I need protein, I'll have a bar that has 20 grams of protein, or I'll make a shake with protein powder just because I feel like I need protein. But it's yes, it's much better to eat real food. It's just I think, like us, you know, and I love your content too, because it's for busy. Women like all of us and like just having these small ideas of what you could make like the egg and spinach or avocado and something else just to have those like ideas in your head almost makes like, it's just like the thinking about what you're going to eat is worse than the actually like doing it. It's just sometimes you're like, wait, what should I have for my snack 100%. So that's like, literally in my program, what I no brainer for people is okay, let's come up with a go to foods list for you of things. And you know, and then like on munchie days, one of the best things to do is like if you like coconut, get the unsweetened coconut flakes, and put them in a small ramekin in the front. And I put some blueberries there and I put some of that and now I'm not a grazer, I'm not a fan of grazing. But sometimes you open the fridge and some you grab something and we don't want to be doing this. But if you those things take long that takes a long time to chew, you put them together. Wow, we just got like a ton of antioxidants, anti inflammatories, beneficial fats, and we're actually satisfied for a while walk away. You know, like, that's, it's just trying to strategize. So that's what you have to do for yourself. Like that's one that works for me. But the important thing is not what Andrew Marcellus eats, the important thing is for you to figure out, what do I like. And then you'll stick with it. This is a really interesting thing. If I can just make one big long run on sentence paragraph. There's a great study in my book The Way in about, about how your brain has to like your food. Another reason diets do not work. There's this great study called the milkshake study. And this woman at I think it was Johns Hopkins, she tested these folks they came in and basically they tested the ghrelin in their stomach. Ghrelin is the hormone in your stomach that tells you I'm hungry, go find food. And when you start to eat, then leptin comes out in your brain. And leptin is the hormone your portion controlling hormone. That's the one that's like, hey, yeah, that's enough. Okay, walk away. So we want a really good relationship between these two hormones. We want a very, very loud conversation happening where they can hear each other really well. And this is one of the reasons not for grazing because that messes all that up. But in this study was incredible. She brought people in, she tested the grill and level she gave them a shake, one chocolate shake, that was about 600 calories, it said on the label and it was called decadence or something and she tested the ghrelin level in their stomach. And then they she tested it again after they after they had some and then two weeks later, they came back. And she did the same thing, trust the grill in their stomach, gave them a shake. And this one was called like since ABA or something like that. I'm saying it wrong, but it was like a diet meal replacement chocolate shake, you know, and it was like, I don't know 150 200 calories. So they think they're, they're having a diet shake and teach test the grill and level in their stomach. I'm gonna get this number a little bit wrong, but the point where we made it was either the Gremlin dropped either three times more or six times more with That decadent chocolate shake, then the shake, that was the diet shake, right? And when ghrelin drops, that means leptin shooting out telling you to stop eating. It's really important. So now here's the thing. They were the same exact shake. So what wow, people thought of the show, oh, that's a tournament when they were satisfied. And this is why I insist people like their food. And if you're dieting, it's not going to work. If you're doing what you should be doing, instead of what's bringing you joy, then it's just not going to work. And that's why it's crucial that everything like people ask me, Do you have a meal plan? No, I have to meet you. Or, you know, my app tries to help you figure it out for yourself. But you know, it's like, No, we got to find out what works for you. It's so true. So I saw this on your content as well, earlier in the week. And you're in my head. This was, I want to say Tuesday night, we had a snow day. So our kids were at home. And just it was a long day, we ordered pizza, never ordered pizza, but we ordered pizza. Kids love it. I am lactose intolerant, so I don't really eat it. And if I do eat it, I enjoy it. And I do it maybe like once a year. And you were in my head. And I thought, You know what, just have a slice of pizza with your salad, your salad with the grilled chicken. That's what I would normally eat. And I had a slice of pizza. And I was so satisfied. And I was so happy. And I was cool. Like that was that that was all I needed afterwards, I was good. Normally, if I had, you know, just a grilled chicken salad, I might want to go an hour later. And like I'm digging in the cabinets for something to satisfy that itch. I guess that's exactly what happens. And see, and we all experienced that you're talking about something we've all experienced. And so, you know, when I was coming up with this methodology, I was like, I'm just gonna give it what would happen. If I just had what I know it sounds so like, I mean, that's the holy grail to be able to do that. And I think I mean, I definitely have problems with grazing, I'm more of a grazer than like a meat eater. So like, I've been trying not to do that. But it's really difficult. Like, yeah, and that's the thing, not that I'm against therapy or people thinking about their stuff. But I find practices, best practices that walk us into better behaviors, and that just solve the problem, or kind of better way to go than wasting too much time delving into your why? How about, fix it, you know, and I think a lot of us get bogged down in the intellectual trying to understand ourselves. And I know personally, for me, just diving into solutions. And actually, you know, when you talk about stress management, you talk about chronic stress, and you talk about things like that. And I mean, I've tried all sorts of solutions in my life, but I find things that combine breath and movement, and this is actually studied to be far more effective than say, Talk therapy. at helping you overcome these moments, and I'm interested in people, you know, I'm interested in less cortisol, I'm interested in hormonal balance for what people come to me for, but you can kind of apply this to anything where, you know, you're having, you know, I, in my program, I even go into dispute resolution with your partner, your roommates, like things like that, you know, like you have to strategize this stuff. And it's like, well, how do you get to the solution faster? How do we get to faster solutions, and just being solution oriented in general, and mostly, you know, all of this is about embracing who we are rather than, like always keeping this carrot stick out there and who we want to be like, how does your life actually operate? Let's like, let's, you know, talk about food and exercise in terms of how your life actually operates. And I bet we'll get a better solution not be wishing that you were like somebody else, you know, and I think I think that's really important to always come back to, you know, who are you and maybe stop overthinking it. Maybe just try the solution on first Yeah, and then go back and and then go back and look at your stuff. I'm not saying don't look at your stuff, but I'm saying why not look at your stuff from a place where you feel better and more confident to begin with. I love that. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.