Episode 78 - Stop Glorifying The Hustle With Ella Lucas-Averett (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 78

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Ella Lucas Averett: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:27

Welcome back to the show Nirvana's sisters family. It is Amy and I'm solo today Katie cannot join us and we miss her. But I am here with a fabulous Ella Lucas Everett.

Ella Lucas Averett: 0:40

Did I pronounce Yeah, rhymes with favorite.

Amy: 0:43

Oh, Averitt favorite. I love that. Okay, so she is a businesswoman. She is a part time triathlete, which is amazing, a keynote speaker and host of the On Air with Ella podcast, which we'll probably do a pod swap with in the future. And that is a show for anyone looking to live better, feel better and have some fun along the way. Ella claims her greatest superpower is trial by error, we can totally relate to that. And she loves to bring her audience along with her in the pursuit of living our very best life one step at a time starting now. And this really resonated with Katie and I went when we got connected Ella because like your mission is very similar to ours, which is why we were so excited to talk to you or we are so excited to talk to you. And it's just so great meeting other women, other like minded women that are in this, you know, sort of self care well being balanced worlds in that realistic down to earth way, which is just like kind of what we're about to so for the audience, Ella and I connected through chief which is a network for senior executive women. I had Denise Guerra on the show a few weeks ago who was also from Chief so I'm loving all of these fantastic women that I'm meeting through this network. Without further ado, welcome to the show.

Ella Lucas Averett: 2:01

Amy, thank you so much. And thank you to your listeners for letting me sit in today. I appreciate it.

Amy: 2:06

Yes, of course, everyone will be so excited to hear from you. So give us a little bit of your story and kind of your podcast has been around for a long time and your business and all of these things. So kind of tell us about your point of view on well being and what you're working on?

Ella Lucas Averett: 2:20

Yeah, well, it has to be said that I started my podcast got in 2015 before everybody in their actual uncle had one. We love it. But it was a different world back then. And I started it because I listened to a podcast or two and I was super inspired to bring health and wellness to not not to bring it to the masses, so to speak. But to make it more accessible because I had this belief that wellness could be should be in would be more accessible than profitable. And if we kept it simple, and if I could bring experts who actually knew what they were talking about to others, you know, that's really what motivated me, Amy, I am not a health guru. I'm not a trainer, I'm not any of those things. I'm a businesswoman. As you said, I make my living in corporate consulting. Yeah, not the same world. But for me, I was at that time just turning 40. And it was more important to me than ever to kind of stay on my game. And I had really like, I had been a triathlete for about 10 years at that point. And so I was super, honestly, probably the fittest I've ever been in my life and feeling really good and frankly, feeling like it was easy, even. And it motivated me to want to bring sort of the secrets and the biohacking and wellness tips to my community and create a community about that funny twist about that. It's not always easy. Sometimes you go through ups and downs, sometimes it's about more than what you look like sometimes it needs to be way more about your mental health, or how you're feeling or what your energy is like and, and I learned all these lessons along the way, Amy over the past seven or eight years now. And my community has come along with me. So that is a long way of saying that it started out as kind of health and wellness as a lifestyle, but it was sort of code for fat loss, if you will, a little bit a little bit and now much more into a much more robust definition of what wellness means for women. Many, many, many more issues that we care about to live our richest, fullest lives. And that's about way more than our gene size.

Amy: 4:43

Yes, I 100% agree and it's so much it's so much how Katie and I think as well because this whole point of being accessible and realistic. But before we do this, I realized I forgot to do on nirvana of the week because It is it is Friday, and I think both of us are running 1000 miles per hour. So we need to take a step back and talk about something that brought us joy this week, Sunday that kinda put a smile on our face bigger smile, whatever that may be. Let's just ground us before we continue in the conversation because I feel like we need to do that. So I can start. So my Nirvana was actually this morning. I've been running a million miles an hour, it's just that season, right? Where it's like, kind of headed towards the end of the year, and everything's crazy. And I have like, 1000 things going on, just like everybody else. And I was talking to my husband, and he's like, You know what, we actually recently bought an infrared sauna, which is amazing. But I haven't even used it. And I'm the one who wanted it. And he's used it every day. And he's feeling really good. And he's like, what, why don't use infrared sauna. Like, chill out, like, go in there and relax. And I was like, No, I need to, like, get into a routine. I need to do it at night. And he's like, just go out and just warm it up and go and I'm like, okay, so I worked out I wanted to the sauna. And I was like, Okay, I'll go in for quick 20 minutes. Like, I don't have time. I went in, I ended up staying in at 40 minutes. And I felt so good. afterwards. My body was like, thank you. It was like, it was such a shift in my mindset in my body. And I was like, this feels amazing. And I need to do it more. And I walked downstairs, my husband, I'm like, Thank you for encouraging me, encouraging me to do that this morning, because I feel 1000 times better. So that brought me joy this morning. What about you, Ella?

Ella Lucas Averett: 6:23

Oh, if only the listener could see my face because Amy, mine was okay. Sit down, sit down to them. Last night, I could duplicate the beginning of what you just said been running around like a maniac and not in a way that I think I deserve a prize. Like I actually have learned that that is not how I want to live, but it's a season that I'm in. So here we are. Yeah, and I got home from a business trip late last night. And Amy, I got into my infrared sauna and that was gonna be it's gonna be

Amy: 7:00

this is insane. By the way, I've never had the same Nirvana someone and that's okay, this is synchronicity. So many things happening. This is like, I haven't felt like

Ella Lucas Averett: 7:08

results in three weeks. And by the way, anyone who's gagging right now, because they're like, must be nice. I have a story about my infrared sauna. But first of all, I am dying, because that is absurd and hilarious.

Amy: 7:20

That's really, really crazy. kind of freaking out.

Ella Lucas Averett: 7:24

I haven't been able to exercise, I like to move my body every single day. And I just came out of three days of complete sedentary living, like bad road food. I mean, just everything I don't want in my life for the past three days. And I walked in and I walked into a home where my husband happened to be and I kind of dig him. So that made me super happy. And then I went downstairs and I baked in my infrared sauna. And I felt like a completely restored person. And I felt so grateful I was just drowning in sweat and gratitude. And funny story about that though. I just want anyone right now who's just rolling their eyes at the fact that we both are lucky enough to have infrared saunas in our homes. When I moved, I actually live quite close to Amy in the DC area. And when I moved here, we bought our infrared sauna flatpacked brand new from somebody off of Facebook marketplace who bought it and never used it. So I just want you know, that I man Oh, you want and we'll have a manifestation for you as well and check Facebook marketplace because that's where I

Amy: 8:28

got my and there's, that's actually a really good idea. And there's also so many places now that are starting to pop up that offer so many of those services. So I had tried it at a lot of those, like there's a place near me called um, I think it's restore hyper wellness or one of those and they have sessions. And they also have a new seen it online, they have the ones where you can like they're like portable ones, you can just like, sit in bed and put it on your body. And, you know, obviously much less, much more reasonable option. But yeah, anyway, that is hilarious. I don't even know what to say about that. Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. We're totally linked. I love the whole thing. And that's why I see St see mindset here. This is why I'm so glad we have you on the show. So we were kind of talking prior to the show start starting about what wellness means in this world. And you're sort of alluding to before and it just reminded me like, or you were saying you were on a trip for three days and sedentary and I know that feeling of going on a business trip and it's like the food and you're just sitting down and whatever. And I've also like incorporated wellness. I mean, I've been doing this for years without even like actually realizing it of when I have a business trip or when I have something I'll go a day early. And make sure that like I'm hydrated and I've worked out or I've gotten a treatment or something. So when I start those three day of meetings, I'm like grounded because I've noticed that when I don't do that I'm a hot mess and I don't feel good, you know, or like I'll leave early. If everyone's going out that night and I could take a flight home I'll go home because I'm like you know what I just Do I need that downtime, and I never realized it till I got older that like, I actually need quiet time and downtime, whether it's work, whether it's going to see friends, whatever that may be. And it's so important. And I think when you're younger, you're running, running, running, and then all of a sudden, like, for me, I migraines or Katie, you know, it's so important to take that time, but anyway, went off on it. Yeah, well,

Ella Lucas Averett: 10:23

I think there's a larger issue at play here. For a lot of people there, at least I'll speak for myself anyway. And that is that for many, many years now, I've owned a consultant companies since 2003. That's a really long time. Okay, so I've had lots of my own iterations in that experience. And let me tell you, for the first, I don't know, 10 years, it was all hustle. And one of the deeper issues here is that I think that many of us and certainly I'm sure some of those listening AMI tie, this, I'm just jumping right in, but tie our worth and our perception of our worth to our productivity. So I, I absolutely have a hypothesis that, you know, if we do nothing more than untie our worth, our perceived worth, untie it from productivity and our appearance, we live a lot happier, a lot faster. And frankly, that's behind a great deal of the work that I do. So I the reason I said, you know, super busy week, but I'm no hero is because frankly, some part of me felt, you know, quite noble in the hustle for years and years and years. And it wasn't until my body about gave up on me somewhere midway and I started losing my health and my vibrancy and my energy. And my body was all of a sudden the body of a stranger and I didn't recognize it anymore. And I started, I revisited a disordered relationship with food. And like everything was just completely out of whack for me. And I had to do that work, Amy to start really pulling apart how I saw myself, you know, what value add what what youth Am I to the world? If I'm not producing 18 hours a day, if I, again, I've gone on, but I think there's so much to be done here. When we are accustomed to be rewarded for our achievement, or our appearance. Some people both yeah, there's a lot to undo there. And the sooner and faster we can untie those elements of that equation, the happier we are. So yeah, there's no bizarre and it took me a little while to understand that.

Amy: 12:40

And I totally agree. And we've actually touched on this a couple times in our show with with different guests. Because this hustle culture, I can't stand similar to you. And I like to say hustle on doses where like, you know, you do stuff for a little bit, but then you come back and you put your foot on the gas, and then you break. I mean, you need that. And I think the more it's talked about specially in the corporate environment, the better because we all know people I know many, many people that are still in that mindset of like, oh, I have to work 18 hours a day to be seen to be promoted to have my boss. And there's a lot of like old school, you know, traditional thinkers that think that's the way to success, when in fact, it's quite the opposite. So it's a really good conversation. And it's something that we should continue to like, spread around, because I think those who can balance this and who can do this in doses and are not like killing himself are the ones that are ultimately going to be the most successful, the most happy, the most healthy, the most vibrant, the most in their Nirvana, right? That

Ella Lucas Averett: 13:40

is so important. And one thing that women can do for one another is have these conversations out loud, because I think a lot of the times we go in sort of three phases. One is hustle, hustle, hustle, you know, sacrifices seven days a week, you're on your you're on, you're on call. If you get an email on a Saturday, you're replying to that email on a Saturday, for example. And then the next phase might be that you tone it down a little bit that you check in with yourself a little bit, but Yang talking about it. So you're not you know, making a show of it, you're just trying to achieve some kind of balance. I'm in the third phase, I want to talk about it. I want to encourage other women, you know, one of the women I was working with this week is in her 30s. And I said to her I actually I don't want to be super specific. But let me let me change the names and the context. But I basically said, you know, you just said yes to something that you didn't need to say yes to and forgive me for overstepping. But consider this, this and this, and you don't have to show up at every dancer invited to and, and I could see her shock and all that I said those words out loud. But you know what, you don't have to go to every party you're invited to. And what I think we should do as women further into our careers is start having these conversations, because it's one thing To stop glorifying the hustle behind your closed doors, and it's quite another to kind of muster up the courage or the transparency and say, You know what? Let's have these conversations out loud. And let's have them more often. And let's have them with the women who are

Amy: 15:17

and let's have boundaries, and it's okay and support each other doing that, like, I mean, I stopped answering email, you know, on the weekends, years ago, because of like, I'm not doing that anymore. I stopped while I still email at night, but I try not to, you know, but you start to set these boundaries with yourself, and then others realize, Oh, I'm not going to bother her, because I know that she doesn't answer emails on the weekend. Or you could do the opposite, which is just like, consistently go and never and never say no, and someone trying to think there was this quote, I heard or listened to, or maybe it was even on my show. I can't remember, someone had said, about saying no to things. And it was like, if you don't want to do that right now, say no to it, because you're not gonna want to do it in two weeks leave commit to a dinner, you're like, Oh, great. And then intuition. I don't want to go with these, like 10 girls that have small talk or whatever. If you know, right now, you're not gonna want to do it do not commit. And it's been such a guiding principle for me, because there's so many things I used to say yes to that. I'm like, No, thank you. I'm busy.

Ella Lucas Averett: 16:18

I think the best thing we can do is lead by example, and keep having conversations like this

Amy: 16:24

100%. Okay, so you have you have over, I don't know, 500 episodes, a bazillion episodes. And you've talked to a lot of self care, wellness, productivity type people, what is like your favorite, I guess? I guess the few things like, it's probably hard to answer this. But what are a few takeaways that you've learned throughout the years? Because like you, you know, I'm not an expert, Katie and I are experts. But we talk to a lot of people that give us information. And then we use that for, you know, our own lives. So we're, you know, practitioners, if you will, so what have you learned that has really helped you over the years since you've had your

Ella Lucas Averett: 16:57

show? Great question, I'm going to answer it from two different ways. One on a very base level, like, it is super fun to try people's products, to read people's books to talk to me. So you know, you get sent stacks and stacks of books sometimes and to be able to consume that type of content, and then have conversations with the researchers and the authors. And the the people who did the work. Like that part's fascinating, but also just learning about different types of products. So like, I have, I do red light therapy, because I have a red light hanging in my house. I didn't know about red light therapy until I started my podcast. I didn't know about Infrared Saunas until I started my podcast. So that type of thing is super fun for wellness geeks. But love it the thing that really, on a more meta level, the thing that has been my largest takeaway really is a bit of a twist. It is I wish I knew when I was in my early 20s, that nobody had any idea what the hell they were doing a lot of the time. Right. Amy, I have interviewed a Olympic gold medalists. And they talk about their failures. And they talk about how they didn't know what they were doing. And I talked to people who have started, I talked to a woman who founded health aide kombucha, and some people don't know what that is, and other people might be addicted to it like I am. And she died. Her name is Dinah and she started this in her kitchen. And I think it's valued at $500 million, just like 10 years later. So a moderate success story. And she had no idea what she was doing, literally, she'll be the first person to tell you that. So I'll be honest with you my largest takeaway, and the thing I love to get to with my guests, who have had raging success and very obvious success to the world, is to really break down that there is no magic formula. And when I speak this is this is oftentimes what I speak about. And that is that, truly, it's not sexy, and it might not sell books. But taking the smallest step toward the life you're trying to create is the secret to success. Because if you did that every day, instead of being overwhelmed by the large steps, or the big leaps are waiting for motivation to land on you like lightning. If you took the smallest step every day, by degrees, your life is completely different six months, 12 months, three years from now, that's been the greatest life lesson for me.

Amy: 19:31

I love that. I love that. And it's so true. We've seen that too. And a lot of the entrepreneurs and founders we've met with, yeah, no one knows what they're doing until they do it. And then they give guidance because they've been through it, but no one knows what they're doing. And like everyone's figuring it out and that makes you feel better and also less intimidated when you meet certain people because no one really has it together. They're all figuring it out too. That's a great lesson. I

Ella Lucas Averett: 19:55

used to think when you were younger, or maybe it's just me, just that like the super successful People are the people you admired. Like they kind of they probably were born with something that you weren't or they had something, some natural gift, yet some natural gift that you felt like you had to kind of find. And it obviously came naturally to them or they were just smarter or savvy or something earlier than you. And it turns out, no, they just did the thing.

Amy: 20:20

So that they've gotten coaching. They've done this, they've done that you

Ella Lucas Averett: 20:24

could talk to 20 year old yep, I could talk to 20 year old me, I would say go do the thing, like do the thing. You want to do risk failure, and do the thing that you want to do, because nobody knows what they're doing.

Amy: 20:36

Yeah, yeah, this is like a random story. But it's one that I remember. And it's so minor. But speaking to the point of like, when you're younger, and you're seeing all these people, and you're like, oh, they all have it together and they know everything not realizing that they've gotten coaching and this and that to get to where they've gotten to. I was in someone's office when I was younger, a leader of mine, who was so put together so chic, like, you never see this person fell, right. She's just like, amazing. But I was having meeting with her. We're, you know, chit chatting. And I noticed like one of her nails was like chipped in wasn't done perfectly. And I was like, it was like, for some reason, it always stuck out to me. I'm like, You know what? She doesn't have it all together, either. Because her nail was humanized her. There you go. Yes. 100%. So I always think about that. I don't know why she's

Ella Lucas Averett: 21:22

like, it's a metaphor. It's

Amy: 21:23

a metaphor. You're right. Also, let's talk about how you balance because you know, I'm in a similar boat and Katie, too, with with stuff she does outside of the podcasts, like, how do you balance the podcast? And I know how much work it is, it's insane. You know, building that building your business, being a good wife, like all of these things, what is your I mean, no one has a secret, as you said, but like, how do you figure it all out?

Ella Lucas Averett: 21:50

I don't, I do a couple of things that give me so much more peace than I used to have. Okay, and the first thing I do is I give myself a little bit more grace than I used to. And that is probably because of some of the tools I'm about to share with you now. And one of those is to realize it for some reason, you know, sometimes just super simple concepts stick in your brain and just really hit you at the right time. Well, I learned to look at my life in seasons, everything I'm trying to accomplish, and or wherever I'm falling short. So it's really important for me to move my body every single day. That's important to me. Now, does that mean I do it every single day? No, but it is my default. So you know, maybe it's five days a week. But that's because for me, it's not a decision that I wrestle with every day. It's a given. And so it happens more often than not, right? So so when I go through a period where I have three or four days where that does not happen, I used to just beat myself up. And I think that if shame were an effective strategy, we would all know by now that he did. So self flagellation, we're weirdly did not improve my life in any way. So there, I was still not moving, but now beating myself up over it. So when I learned how to think of my life in seasons, that word I really connected with, and it changed everything for me, and I'll tell you what, I mean, some times I go through a season where I have to really gun it out, like get it out rather, and I'm working my tail off for 10 days, you know, these these Sprint's these spurts, and I'm not taking optimal care of myself. And instead of painting the rest of my life with that brush, I take a deep breath. And I'm like, this is a very short season, like you got this. You know, I you and I have tried to connect before and I just came out of a three week season that was a real Bender for me, and not a lot of fun. And again, years ago, I would have panicked, I would have self flagellating, which would have led to bad behaviors to cope, you know, whether it was numbing out with food, everyone has the thing they numb out with and again, mine used to be food and like a disordered relationship there. And I would go to all these mechanisms rather than like just allowing the discomfort. And so when I connected with the word seasons, I'm like, this is a season of intense sprint work for me, and it will be over. And then sometimes I'm in a season where I can ride my bike three days a week, which is outstanding. And sometimes I'm in a season where my husband and I are so connected and we're able, you know, we have quality time together and quantity time together. And then there are other seasons, which we happen to be in right now where we are just running at 800 miles an hour in two totally different directions. But instead of again, painting our life with that brush, we're saying we use the terminology. We say, Oh, we knew this season was going to be like this. It's over. We know when it's when it's over. It's over two weeks from now. Yeah. Yeah. And we talk about it and we plan accordingly. So there's a lot in there because it requires an A awareness, it requires intention. And it requires a mindset. And what I used to do is just go go go beat myself up, and then go go go some more. Oh and cope.

Amy: 25:12

Right now that's so true. And then it's like once the season is over having the tools to then step back from the season. And I think you and I are very similar in that when we're younger, we didn't have the tools. So you just keep going. And then you burn out versus now you're like, Okay, to my point earlier, you can hustle on doses. But then you take the tools out of your toolbox that work for you. And then and you know, you're going to have that at the end of that two weeks season or whatever it may be, which is the which is, which is like, I feel like you start realizing that when you're older, and then learn more and then these things,

Ella Lucas Averett: 25:46

trial and error or baby, it's my specialty. Yeah, I've just had

Amy: 25:50

Katie calls herself the human science, science. Yeah,

Ella Lucas Averett: 25:53

I just have failed on air for seven years. But you know, and then sharing those and then we iterate again, and we iterate again, Amy, but okay, do you remember the actress Jenna Elfman, I shouldn't say Do you remember, because I think she's gonna show now that I think she's on The Walking Dead or something that I don't want. Yeah, she was dharma. She was dharma. And so I was interviewing her. And she said to me, she had this great analogy, since she said, I look at my life as a mixing board. So just picture like a DJ Studio, you guys have seen it like in behind the scenes when someone's recording a song. And she said, I Picture My Life, like that mixing board that you see in the studios, and she's like, sometimes the bass is turned really high, and the treble is really low. And she said, you can't have all the dials at 10 all the time, you know, Something's gotta give. So sometimes the bass is quite high, and the treble is low. And sometimes you're able to pull the treble up, and the bass comes back a bit. And I thought, what, what a grace to give ourselves to realize, and I have a model now that I work with that is the life wheel. And I just like to take an audit every once awhile, and I look at different areas of my life. So my career, my personal finances, my spiritual life, my relationship with my husband, my social relationships, and I kind of I sort of rate myself I know, this sounds so silly, on my on my wheel, and I use this with my community as well. And sometimes you're really high in some areas, and it's never not at a cost of some other area. You're never attended anywhere. The goal is right. Balance over time, I used to think it was balanced in a moment, there's a huge difference,

Amy: 27:31

right? So true. I was also reading that you do retreats, and I think you just got off a one. So what is that? What is that? What does that

Ella Lucas Averett: 27:39

Oh, those are super great. This is bringing my podcast community together. And when we had a few chiefs in this retreat, as well, which was lovely, but bringing, bringing my community together, women only no offense, we love a man, but I love. I love to create space for witness the best. And the first one I did change my life because I had never invested in I had never invested so heavily in deep, meaningful relationships with women, because I've been burned a few times. And so when I had my first retreat, it was you know, let's say, let's say 45 people. And we spent three days together that changed my life, it was as impactful for me if not more so than it was for them. And then I was addicted. And it was such a wonderful community. It was fun. I laughed my face off. And we did some fun wellness stuff. And we did some personal development. And it was just like, the best Slumber Party you've ever been to for three days. And you walked out with tools and tips. And I was like, okay, more of this place. And so I've just done one, you know, obviously there was a little a little global pandemic setback. But he was able to hold my most recent one in Miami, and it was smaller and more intimate and absolutely lovely and so much fun. And there's just something so powerful when women very age and background diverse. But when you are like minded in the sense that you all want to be living your best life and I don't care how cheesy that sounds, because I'll own it. But if that's why you're all together, the conversations that you have and the moments that you have in the learning that can happen between one another absolutely fantastic, totally addictive, highly recommend.

Amy: 29:23

Katie and I have been talking about this. We've mentioned it a few times on the show that we want to start doing your rawness sisters retreats in the future. So I'm glad to hear how impactful it has been for you. I will we are going to have you as a special guests. We've already talked to someone else that we've had on the show that we want to also join so stay tuned for that. So before we get into our rap session, Ella, I wanted to pick your brain on what are your favorite podcasts knowing that you have your own I'm sure you listen to a lot what are your favorite ones lately?

Ella Lucas Averett: 29:50

Bored? Oh, I wasn't prepared.

Amy: 29:52

Oh, sorry. I you know, what's impromptu questions that you don't have to answer if you if it's too much on the spot. As she's looking through her Apple podcasts or Spotify,

Ella Lucas Averett: 30:02

this is so funny. I don't want to disappoint anybody. I love to recommend other people's podcasts and I love to amplify. I love to amplify smaller creators like independent podcasts because like I said, now it's just it's obviously a very crowded marketplace. But I'm I also have this weird quirk where I will listen to 1000 different podcasts because I'm listening as a podcaster. So I listened to topics I disagree with, I listen to subjects I'm not interested in because I'm listening for other reasons and or I'm researching a specific guest. So I'm going to use this as an opportunity to amplify a super fun podcast created by two women. I think they're in their early 30s. And they have created this thing together and it's like a little pop culture he gossipy but wickedly smart, and it is called celebrity memoir book club. Okay. Oh, I

Amy: 30:55

haven't heard any lips die laughing if

Ella Lucas Averett: 30:58

they knew that I was recommending them because I am not their target market. I don't think we're gonna attack now. Okay, celebrity memoirs. And they read celebrity memoirs. Okay. And they are, they're both comedians and extremely intelligent women. And so then breaking down the knee. So their English literature is hilarious to me. And they're very witty and very intelligent. And they added depth to these rather silly books a lot of the time with with an insightful point of view, but it's a lot of fun, and it's an easy list. So

Amy: 31:33

check that out. I'm definitely going to check that out. Okay, so let's get into our rap session. You're ready. Okay, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Okay, so,

Ella Lucas Averett: 31:42

we've mentioned the infrared sauna, but I bought you a pot a prop. So everybody I know has like the 13 step facial routine. Yeah, and I just use this stuff called best skin ever. And it's a completely natural oil and I use it at night on my face and it's my I have that and I love it. Yeah, living libations I love to pump them up. I've interviewed the founder a couple times. I have zero affiliation with the company. I've been using it at night exclusively for a decade. Love it can't get enough. Don't

Amy: 32:10

you find that oil cleansing has changed your scan? It's changed mine.

Ella Lucas Averett: 32:15

addicted. It's like liquid gold and I leave it on as a moisturizer after my face is cold. Do you believe in it?

Amy: 32:22

Yeah, okay, I'm gonna try that because I usually put it on and then wipe it off but

Ella Lucas Averett: 32:27

it's liquid gold.

Amy: 32:29

Amazing. I do use it at night or in the morning just mostly

Ella Lucas Averett: 32:33

at night. Every once a while in the morning if I'm going to work out or something and it doesn't matter. Yeah, tiny but at night. It's best. Yeah.

Amy: 32:39

Okay, five minute flow. You just got out of the shower. And dry it off. Your Uber is five minutes away. They just pinged you what is your quick beauty routine? Like what do you put on? What are your go twos or holy grails to get downstairs and get in the car?

Ella Lucas Averett: 32:52

I mean, Amy, it takes me seven minutes to get ready on a normal day. So this is not

Amy: 32:57

God. That's amazing.

Ella Lucas Averett: 33:01

Because I don't know like people do contouring. I don't know what that is. I don't know how to do anything. So honestly, it's my every day, which is moisturizer. Slick ponytail. So I need this is what I need in my life. I need lipbalm then I need a lip gloss. I need a really solid hair tie. And I mean silver hoops on Golden. I'm there.

Amy: 33:25

And are you like a uniform girl? Like if you're going out? Like do you have specific things you wear like jeans and a T shirt or whatever or you were different. In fact,

Ella Lucas Averett: 33:32

I wear I wear different things every day I let my clothes tell me what they want to be just like my hair, my hair is in charge of itself. And honestly, I do this weird thing. I get intuitively dressed. It's so funny. I don't ever spend any time picking out my outfit. I walk in the closet and I like I asked my intuition. What are we wearing today? And then I just do what I know

Amy: 33:52

I do the same thing. I do the same thing, which makes it hard to pack for trips because I'm like, I don't know, I'll be on like, exactly. I don't know, I'm gonna feel so funny. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Ella Lucas Averett: 34:04

Okay, again, I give my self grace for not always maintaining nirvana. And two things I am learning to do more intentionally is breathe. And you think that sounds simple. Okay, then drop your shoulders wherever you are right now. And take a breath all the way into your diaphragm, which is below your ribcage. And tell me how often you are intentionally doing that because it sounds so simple. But are we are we doing it? Yeah, so honestly, that alone, I didn't realize I was taking shallow breaths. You know, for 15 years. I had no idea. So I'm trying to be much more intentional about that. And I'm trying to be more intentional about what I consume, to make to maintain my daily Nirvana and I'm not talking about food. I am talking about what I watched and what I listened to. So there's a lot of things that are no longer in my feed, whether it's fits Oh, or other people's bodies in my feed, and or just like junk, just you know that total garbage that is, you know, kind of all over the TV and all that stuff. So I'm very, very conscious of what I consume because it changes my chi. Big time.

Amy: 35:17

Yes, I feel you on that one. Okay, and before we close with a quote slash mantra, where can everybody find Oh, you're

Ella Lucas Averett: 35:24

so sweet. I'll keep this short on air with Ella. So on Instagram, you see a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on and on air with Ella and then as the On Air with Ella podcast.

Amy: 35:34

Amazing. Okay. So Ella is going to bless us. She has a quote, slash mantra to end the show. And I'm excited to hear I

Ella Lucas Averett: 35:42

live by this. And I didn't say at first, Arthur Ashe, famous tennis player from Virginia said at first. And he said, in order to achieve greatness, start where you are, use what you have, and do what you can. And I would just add, start now.

Amy: 36:01

Yeah, so good. Such a good one. Thank you so much for joining us. This has been great. Like, I feel like there's so much more to talk about. But thank you for being here. We really, really appreciate it. And I'm so excited that we connected because this has been such a great conversation. And I feel like there's so many things that are alike between us. So I love that I can just feel the energy through the through the virtual studio here. So thank you again. My

Ella Lucas Averett: 36:25

pleasure. Amy, thank you so much.

Amy: 36:28

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 77 - Product Junkies October Edition - What We’re Into (And Not) Right Now (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 77.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts I'm Amy Sherman and I'm

Katie: 0:19

Katie Chandler so let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:27

go back to Nirvana sisters Nirvana sisters family it's Amy and Katie and it is October and we are here with our October product junkies episode we're excited to jump right in. We are reviewing our latest things that we're loving right now and I'm gonna kick it to Katie to start us out.

Katie: 0:45

Start us off I'm trying to think if I which way I want to I want to go I'm gonna go with my three and one and you'll see why I say three and one as we go along. New makeup brand that I'm obsessed with maybe you're seeing it on social media because they're definitely they like their marketing and social media is on point that's what reeled me in and when I say it's a three in one I will slowly over time. introduce to you this like three product stage three product step process for your cheeks, okay for like, contouring the whole thing. Oh, so Marin, have you heard of merit? M er T M E R it?

Amy: 1:29

Yeah. Did I just Oh no. Yeah, I love merit. They have beautiful packaging. And I've been wanting to try it. I have been doing Westman atelier. Yeah, which I am not reviewing, but I will review but it has like a similar look and feel. So

Katie: 1:41

the whole thing with merit is that it's that like, no makeup makeup look that's really easy to throw on and just like blend in and boom, you're ready to go like talk about a five minute flow. This is like a two minute flow. Yeah, so this first product is their bronze bomb. It's a shear bronzer, and it goes on. It's kind of like an a lipstick tube almost. And it's really like shear and blendable. It has like a lightweight satiny finish and you contour your face with it, you know, like this line, the line on your forehead, etc. And then use a good blending brush and it just melts into your skin, it melts so easily and seamlessly. And it looks very, very natural. And it does a very good job of contouring. This one. I think that branded as it happens to be healing vegan and cruelty free. And the bronze bomb shear bronzer is $30. It comes in like I want to say six colors maybe. And the other really great thing about merit, their color matching, like tool guide on their website is very, it's very well done. It's very, very clever. They give you a lot of images to help you understand what color you should get, which I really liked that.

Amy: 2:58

So I have a question because I because I have the Westman Atelier a bronzer stick, which is very similar, which I love. And my question is, do you just use it for contour? Or do you use it as a bronzer too? Because I get confused. Can you use the contour for I use it

Katie: 3:13

for both? What do you do and I have seen these girls like on social media show you the way to do like the differences. And if you want to use it yet, we're just contouring, then you just kind of do like thinner lines like I would do here. Right like that. And then along your jawline, and then kind of just like a little bit up here. And if you want to do thicker and you want like the bronzy I just got off the beach look, you just do you just apply more like it's a really it's literally that simple. Like you just kind of make your your your lines thicker and fuller, and blend in a little bit more.

Amy: 3:53

But that's not bronze or though because you put bronzer in a different location on your face.

Katie: 3:57

Oh, well, I guess you know, it's super versatile because I think because it is so sheer that you could put it on any location and play with it, which is really nice. I mean, I always tend to look better with a little bit of a bronzed glow. So I use it kind of more for that. But I am using it in contouring. Yes as well. That's because it melts into the sky now.

Amy: 4:19

I've been trying to use as a contour to Yeah, and it looks supernatural. I love it. Okay, that's great. I've been wanting to try that. So yeah. All right. What do you have? Since that's the first step second seconds. Wow. Wait,

Katie: 4:31

oh, are you doing I'll do I'll do I'll reveal as we go along.

Amy: 4:35

Got it. Okay, so I will do if we're talking about skin I'm going to talk about a product that I recently got which I'm really enjoying which is the OSA Hyaluronic C serum. It's a serum it's by OSA Malibu which we've talked about on the show great brands clean and this is the hyaluronic C serum. It's $88 But a little goes a long way. It's really fast absorbing and it's a really, really nice Hydrating Serum because I have a lot of serums but I don't think I had one that was hyaluronic acid. And this one is just it feels just when you put it on your skin, it just feels very very moisturizing in the fall like I'm starting to get a lot drier. So I've been putting this on Morning night I went to get a facial and they had this there and I asked her I was like, What's the best like Hyaluronic to put on morning and night and she recommended this and I've been using it for a few weeks. And I actually really, really enjoy it. Yeah,

Katie: 5:35

nice. I recommend love a good hyaluronic acid. All right, my next one is part of my three and one. So Plaxton is merit. And it is their flesh balm cheek color. So this is the reason why I say it's a three and one because this is just another step to like getting that nice like contoured bronze blush like highlighted situation. That's a Bing Bang Boom deal. It's super fast. So it's so cute because they come in these. I don't know, it almost looks like a lip balm. Oh, it looks like yeah, maybe when you just kind of like put it I put it higher up on my cheeks above where I've got the bronzer situation going and blended in. And it's the exact same consistency as the bronzer. This is $20. And you know, it's like, you swipe one, you swipe this one, you blend, boom. It's very, very just easy and streamlined. And actually, they are this product is an Ulta Beauty 2022 award winner. So it's a good one. And they have five shades to choose from. And again, vegan, clean, cruelty free. This has vitamin E in it. So remember, we've heard about this unification of these products like putting these great things for your skin inside of the makeup products, which is really exciting. So I love that one.

Amy: 7:04

That's great. And I love having these little as we call it our five minute flow products because for example, if you're going on a trip, you could just bring like that, that and one thing. Good. Okay, so I'll stick with the skin theme. And the next thing I have is called the Obagi physicals events 50 mineral sunscreen. It's like a tinted. Yeah, sorry, mineral sunscreen, lotion, SPF 50. So it's lightly tinted, lightweight and share. So again, this was from like another treatment or facial or something I had a while back a while back, but I don't think I reviewed it. And it's a really nice tinted moisturizer. It's very, very light, and very like kind of creamy, but it like thin and creamy. So it doesn't because I was looking for a new sunscreen because I love as you know the unseen sunscreen from Supergoop. But I was just kind of getting sick of it. I don't know it just like sometimes I would find at the end of the day it would like kind of I don't know, I just wanted to try something new. Yeah. which never happened to me before. I don't know why. And I love also, the other favorite one I have from Supergoop, which I've talked about a million times is the low screen which is also a tinted sunscreen moisturizer. So I use that a lot. But sometimes it's a little too glowy in a way, this one's kind of like glowy, but not too much. So I've just been putting it on sometimes in the morning, or if I'm going out to dinner at night, I just want something to smooth out my skin. And it's really great. And it has an SPF 50 Because I was getting sick of like putting on makeup and then putting on my sunscreen. So this is a really really good one. And it's a really great brand Obagi I feel like I see it in a lot of the kind of like places where you get facials and stuff like that. And it is $59 And again, SPF 50. And it's also mineral based, which is great, and I've been really happy with it. So adding that to my list.

Katie: 9:05

Alright, so this is the last of the three and one the last of the merit that I'm going to review today, but there might be some more coming at you in next episodes. This is again a part of the like cheek situation and it is the dayglo highlighting balm and they only have three shades but I mean it's for highlighter it's not doesn't really have to have like a lot of pigment into it. But so this then goes like on the highest point of the cheekbone. And you know, the light catches it really nicely. And this one Yeah, that's a really pretty color. I don't know it's like kind of like champagne color. It's 30.

Amy: 9:44

So you just put those three on and now Yeah,

Katie: 9:47

I did buy their blending brush. It's a really good one. And it's just like it blends and melts into your skin so easily and so quickly. And it looks just really Natural I've like, you know, I've been doing the whole selfie thing and all different lighting to, to test it because I feel like that's the only way you really know. So yeah, yeah, I love it. I'm in. I'm in on merit.

Amy: 10:11

And how much does that swan

Katie: 10:13

is 30. So they're all about the same price point.

Amy: 10:17

They're all very reasonably and Dr. sighs

Unknown: 10:18

Yeah,

Amy: 10:19

yeah. Because I've been testing out the Westman until a which I love and Lauren Miller recommended the highlighter and one of our product junkies episode months ago, but I just tried, I've been trying the console, and the blusher on the end, like another product I can't remember. And it's beautiful. And I love it. But it is expensive. And Merritt seems like very similar at a much better price point. So I'm really, you know,

Katie: 10:41

the other good thing that I was concerned about when I first got it, because it is so blendable and kind of melts into your skin, I thought, This isn't going to hold up, like by the end of the day, it's going to be off, you know, like it's going to literally melt off of me. But it does it legitimately stay these days holds up for the whole day. I mean, I might reapply here and there for a little bit of I'm gonna just like go out to dinner or something. I need to be done a little bit more. But it's good. It's good quality.

Amy: 11:09

Okay, what do you have? Okay, so I'm getting into the hair category. Now a couple of new hair products. I've tried that I want to talk about the first one, I have a sample of it, and I'm going to get the bigger one. It's the way Oh,

Katie: 11:22

you say I've always wondered how you say that one. Yeah,

Amy: 11:25

and it's, they're leaving conditioner. And I bought this for a trip because I A wanted to try the B I liked how it was small and I like the bottle. But this has been great. First of all, it smells really good. Second of all, it's I'd like for someone who doesn't wash their hair every day. I'm sure you don't either, because you have thick hair and it doesn't really get greasy. This is a great way to just judge up the hair. So I'll just put on a couple of sprays in the morning. And it just kind of like puts the moisture back in my hair. And I love that it's a spray instead of a leaving conditioner that you have to like rubbing your hands on whatever speaking of getting ready quickly, you just literally spray this on and it's good to go. So I love this. And I'll do another one because it's in the category of hair. So that I love the other thing when you are washing your hair and you're doing a blowout I've been dying to try this on again, I'm really into like the little sample bottles. This is the WoW Dreamcoat. super natural spray. I don't know if you've seen this. It's, it's like always gets these high reviews. I've heard a lot of people talking about it. And essentially, it's like a spray that you put on after the shower when your hair is wet before you blow dry your hair. And it only works if you're blow drying your hair like the guy activates it, but it makes your hair really shiny bouncy gives it a lot of volume. I've only tried it like once or twice and so far, so good. But I really really really like it has like my hair looked so good after I did it. And I didn't really spend a lot of time drying it, I just use my Dyson and just kind of went through it quickly. But it definitely gave it like an extra shine and an extra volume. So I'm really liking this right now. And then the last one I have speaking of like leaving conditioner and then something just squaring your hair, when you're going to dry it. This is a everyday hydrating hair balm by igk. And it's vegan and cruelty free. And it's essentially has it's it's leaving conditioner similar to the one by the way, it's a little bit thicker, but it really doesn't weigh down your hair. So for me with like dry, coarse, frizzy hair, this is like a little bit of a heavier kind of feel. And so it just kind of depends on how my hair is feeling and say for every day that leaving conditioner use but this I'll use when my hair is feeling a little drier, I'll put it on the ends. So I'm really liking this too. And the price is for all of these which I forgot to mention. So for the igk it's called mistress hydrating leaving conditioner, hair balm $29. The Wow, the color well dream coat, super natural spray $44. And the way leaving conditioner is $28. But my advice would be to get all the samples because at Sephora, they have so many samples now all the stuff that I've just buying so many samples now because they actually last a pretty decent amount of time I actually had a hair oil from the way that I bought from Ulta months ago. And I think I just finished it and it was this big, which is like what one and a half ounces.

Katie: 14:22

So you're talking about Yeah, in the checkout line at Sephora, where they have all of Nike checkout

Amy: 14:27

line. They have all the samples, they have all the really good brands and the brands you hear about. Also at Ulta they have it because I got a little sampler of the hair oil. So that's my latest thing. I've just been trying these little samplers and then I'll travel with them. I'll use them and if I liked them then I'll buy the big one. Unless I know I really want it but so that's been like a good hack, if you will all these samplers I just love that all these brands are now doing these sample sites. I love

Katie: 14:52

so smart. You brought that up because you know we were recently talking about that we don't wear perfume anymore. Like it's Tuesday. On Campus headaches etc I've been smelling this the scent on women like passing the pie around town and I was I just like fell in love with it I was obsessed with it but I didn't want to buy a big bottle because I was afraid that I won't be able to tolerate it like what we were talking about. Sephora now has sample sizes like not the little teeny tiny sample size that you're thinking of. It's like it's like this big so it's maybe six inches long and it's just a tube that's maybe as thick as this is of perfumes of all of these different super high end expensive perfumes so I found the scent I was just went through and smelled them all found the one that that I've been smelling on people and I bought it and I love it and I can tolerate it like can't tolerate it every day. What is it what's the sad I call it is and I've never heard of this brand until actually someone gifted me a candle it's the Mason Louis Murray brand which I'm assuming it sounds very French This is the number four it's it's in French so I'm probably gonna butcher it was de Balan court is the scent means

Amy: 16:13

whatever it's not small Ira

Katie: 16:14

it says the highlights are. It's a earthy and it's an earthy and woody family. Fragrance family and as like warm Woods scent type. Sandalwood vetiver whatever that is Amberwood I don't know it's just a berry. It's just kind of like, mysterious and sexy. And I like how it smells. And it's not super

Amy: 16:41

it's I love it. And I love that you can wear it and you know it doesn't bother

Katie: 16:44

me and I got it in this perfect little sampler size.

Amy: 16:48

That's so cute. I love that. And that's so good for travel too. Is it like a rollerball, right? Yeah, so spray Oh, yeah, better. So you can just like walk through it. And it's just very, it's funny. I even said it's also Yeah, yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait to smell it next time I see you. I actually have a I have a perfume that I'm actually testing out now which I'll update everybody on if I like it to see if I can tolerate it. So far. I'm tolerating it, but I'll stay for

Katie: 17:15

another time. All right. One, it's really silly. But I'm obsessed with these things. I have bought three of them and I just have to share it with my Nirvana sisters family. For 480 and 85. on Amazon, you can get the coziest slippers that I do. Obsessed with these. Here we go. I love them. They're there. Okay, so they're by par lovable. They're the women's cross band slippers soft, plush, very cozy open toe shoe and faux rabbit fur. And I have bought two gray pairs. Like wore them kind of you know that I can still wear them but they're not as fluffy and soft. They lasted a long time now. And now I've got a nice beige. Yeah, I'm wearing two beiges and grays this year, which is very new for me. So this is a beige pair but at this price, you could buy all 12 colors and just rotate them. Yeah, I'm

Amy: 18:16

that that's

Katie: 18:18

the thing that I like them is that you slide your foot into them like a flip flop and they stay on your foot like a flip flop whereas like I've always had a hard time with slippers. I don't know like the round toe ones off and then the ones I have to actually put on and they're not that comfortable. These are great. Yeah.

Amy: 18:35

That's really funny. I have those I don't know if it's the same brand but I got them at some point. And I have a camo color and that just reminds me I'm like maybe I should get another pair and like keep them in in the yard of the house. So I don't have to always look for my slippers because I feel like I'm always losing them or the dogs have them so I love that and those are so cozy. Okay, the last thing is something that I was testing that I do not like so I wanted to share it with our interesting family. So this is a brand I'm sure you've seen it on Instagram. Be tayo I

Unknown: 19:10

haven't

Amy: 19:11

it's this brand Malema. You haven't seen this. And a Ely s and they have I really wanted to like it. They have all of these different products for like lifting and firming and this one specifically is called be tight lift and firm booty mask and it's supposedly supposed to give you a firmer looking booty. It's a best seller. It's clinically proven to reduce the appearance of cellulite and help visibly from the look of skin around the booty in the thighs. Now I don't know if it works or not and I'll tell you why I stopped using it. So first of all, I've seen it all over the place and like of course got influenced to buy it and then I had a friend who I spoke to who also has that she has a for her stomach. There's like a stomach one. And she said it had tightened her stomach and she can tell when she's not using it that It makes the difference and I'm like, awesome. So I tried it obviously for like the cellulite on my thighs. And it's essentially kind of like a mask. It's like a thick cream and you just put a lot on and rub it in and all of that. The thing with it is it burns, which I don't like. And it's supposed to be I mean, let me see if I can just pull up the ingredients really quickly. Okay, so in the ingredient list, it says it's free of parabens, SLS, phthalates. It has pink. I can't say this pink pepper slim, which helps smooth the look of fatty skin. It has hyaluronic acid, which we just talked about. It has Guarana seed extract, which wakes up tired skin. Those are like the main ingredients. And then if you click there's like a bunch of other ingredients. So when I was first reading this, I was like, Oh, it seems like it has a nice ingredients like whatever. But it does have this sensation on the skin and they tell you that that it has like a warming sensation. But I just think it's weird, did it so like did

Katie: 21:08

my comrades burned uncomfortably or just kind of like a tingle?

Amy: 21:13

Yeah. No, it burned uncomfortably for me. So I don't know. It could just be my skin is sensitive to it. But then I asked my friend, and she had used it on her stomach. And she said, yeah, it does burn a little bit. You just like power through and you get used to it. I'm like, okay, so I used it a couple more times. And I was just like, I don't know, I had it on. And then like, my legs were kind of like burning, and I was like, Okay, well, it's working. So that's good. And then I put on jeans. And I'm like this is kind of uncomfortable. I'm like, I don't want to do this. So I still have it. Maybe I'll try it again. But I'm kind of just not into it because it burns and it just feels it almost feels like an I know it's not this. But it feels a bit of a chemical burn when you put on something like that happened to me once I put on like Ben gay and I went in the shower, I didn't realize you're not supposed to get it wet and like burned. Like it had that feeling of burning. That's what this felt like to me. So I'm like, How can this be good for you? Just a little bit.

Katie: 22:04

It's interesting, but also like the timing in once you did it like you did it before you were gonna have to put jeans on and go somewhere. Maybe if you did it at night when you could like how long do you have to have it on?

Amy: 22:16

It's just it's almost like you use it as your moisture. So you don't take it off. Yet. You just use it. Why wouldn't you? So it's not like you put it on and take it off. Right? So I and I have done it with like Just Sweats before because same exact thing. And it burns for like, it's not like five minutes. It's like half an hour or so. And then it goes away, then it goes away. So maybe it gets better over time. I have to like research more and anyone in the audience if you've tried it, please DM us and let us know. I'm just curious, I'd love to survey because, you know, for a lot of people it's gotten really good results. But so you feel now the reviews are really good

Katie: 22:53

even get the chance to see if it's effective.

Amy: 22:56

I didn't really give it the full chance. I only I've only used it maybe five times because I was just like this is so uncomfortable. Like I don't want to deal but maybe for other people would be different. But anyway, so that was my non recommendation of a product. Don't fall for it. It burns and if you don't want to sit around feeling a body part burn, then I wouldn't probably recommend that.

Katie: 23:16

I like this don't that we're going to that you just added I think that I might be able to bring one with me next time too.

Amy: 23:24

Yeah, because I think in the past it's like well, we'll we just don't talk about the things that we don't like but I think it's good to throw in here are there things that we like strongly do not agree hands, right. So anyway,

Katie: 23:36

all right. We will leave our listener Yeah, that was a good fun October junkies episode and we will be back in November with the next one. Hope everybody has a good Halloween.

Amy: 23:49

Hi. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 76 - From Professional Burnout To Balance With Chelsea Mooney (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 76 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Unknown: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family, we are here with Chelsea Mooney, the founder of Touray collective. And we are very excited to speak with her today, she was inspired to start a lifestyle brands built with a few values which we hold near and dear to our heart as well. So the first one being planted and people of our profit always. Number two design intentionally with Mother Earth in mind. And number three, well being above all else. So that is super important to us, too. So we're excited to meet you excited to have you on the show and to hear about your background in fashion and how it kind of led you to where you are now. So welcome to the show, Chelsea.

Chelsea: 1:11

Thank you, Amy. And Katie, I'm so excited to be here. Okay, Chelsea,

Amy: 1:15

so we'd like to start out with our nirvana of the week, which is really just a highlight of our week, a way to step back and be like, This is what brought me joy this week. As we're moving through things so quickly these days. It's good to do that. So I'm gonna send it to Katie to let us tell us about her nirvana of the week.

Unknown: 1:33

I was thinking about this. We Okay, so this is really nice. My dear, dear, very dear friend, that was my old neighbor. When we lived in Kentucky, her and her daughter, who is my oldest daughter's best friend, they came for a visit. So they were just here this past week. And we had a really nice time we took them to the beach, and we, you know, swim in our pool. And we showed them around our town and just to see the two together. The girls, the young girls was so nice. And also this friendship with this person is so lovely. It's so easy. There's no pretense with just flows like, you know, we threw dinners together. She laughed at me because I chopped up a mozzarella stick Varsha cooter reward. It was just keep it simple with each other. And I really love that. So it was it was lovely to have them here. So that was my nirvana of the week. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:27

I love that. So mine was my kids were away all summer Chelsea, they were at summer camp. And they got home a couple of days ago. So it was obviously amazing to see them. And we didn't have a visiting day this year, because they didn't want you know, all these parents coming in and potentially bringing in anything. So we were able to talk to them on FaceTime a few times, but it's not like, you know, seeing them. So it was really fun to just see them and give them a big hug and like know, their home safe and sound. So it was amazing. What about you, Chelsea?

Chelsea: 2:58

So I have been developing a new candle vessel for next year. And I just got the sample in. I'll give you a little sneak peek but no RAS jar. It's gorgeous. Pretty. Yeah. So this, this will be something I've been working on for a couple of months. So I was really excited. What is the top half and look like? My logo?

Amy: 3:19

Oh, that's beautiful origin here. Oh, that's so fun.

Chelsea: 3:23

Yeah. So that was my, my highlight. I'm excited to I Love You know, when you sketch something, you have this idea. And then it is brought to life. It's just the most exciting thing.

Amy: 3:32

That's so cool. We'll have to talk to you about that Katie and I have been talking about for years doing some sort of candle collection. So I might not Yeah, brain in the future for sure. Okay, so let's get into it, Chelsea, because I know that you had mentioned the pandemic really served as a wake up call for you. And I'd love to hear a little bit about that story.

Chelsea: 3:51

Sure, yeah. So I've been in the fashion industry for over a decade. And, you know, there's this culture within the industry of this, this urgency and this, you know, it is I'm not gonna lie, it's a very exciting industry, but, you know, it's not as glamorous as a lot of people think it is and especially once a pandemic hit, you know, we're all working from home and there was just this this environment of nonstop work because you know, I was living outside of the city and commuting into it. So you have these breaks you know, in New York City, right? Yes, New York City. You know, so you have these breaks you have you know, your home time and then your work time when you're in the office but then once a pandemic everybody transition to work from home and just with the ones everybody realized that okay, this is not a two week closure like this is we don't know when this is going to end. Things just got really crazy. They, the company I was working for wanted to create all this new product and we had less time to do it because of all the supply chain issues. So There was all these factors coming into, that created this environment of, okay, I work from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed. I mean, there was for, I would say, a couple of straight months, like, I would not get up from my desk, like my husband would bring me lunch. I'm like, it was, it was crazy. But yeah, and then just, my, my body was just screaming at me. It's like, this is not, it just wasn't this healthy environment. And the pandemic really just kind of opened my eyes to that, because it just got to a point where it's like, okay, like this, just this is not a sustainable way of living or working. And, you know, it just, I think, seeing, seeing how, how leadership and my manager and the teams were handling issues like work life balance, and the lack thereof, kind of just opened my eyes where it's like, okay, that's not a priority for them. So like, how, how are we supposed to then make it a priority for ourselves when the people above you aren't? So it's just this whole big mess of things.

Unknown: 6:11

I think a lot of people definitely went through very similar experiences when the pandemic hit, and then working remotely. And then over time that becoming the norm. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that. And I, to your point, that the fashion industry, I worked in IT for a decade, and it is not as glamorous as people think. And it's like, it can be downright, like crazy and sketchy. And people can be really intense in that industry. So I could see how you'd be working from like, 7am to 9pm, non stop with a lot of pressure. So yeah, so when did you decide to make the shift? And you You left the industry altogether to start your own company?

Chelsea: 6:55

No, so it's been a slow progression, but and it was all these little steps. So, you know, there got to a point where I was having panic attacks, you know, numerous times a week, and I, yeah, I have an anxiety disorder. I've been managing it since I was 19. But it got to the point where it's like, okay, like, I can't manage this anymore. Like, my, so I oversaw the whole knits department, the technical design side of the knits department for this company I was working with, so once the pandemic hit, everybody's wearing sweats and tees, and, you know, they, they launched this whole athleisure line. So, I've just, I remember this one conversation where I was telling her, I was like, we cannot keep working like this. And, and she said to me, she goes, Yeah, well, everybody feels that way. And that's what I was like, Okay. Like, like, like, that is not the correct answer. But suddenly, it was a slow progression that was kind of, you know, the, they were like, okay, like enough's enough. If you're not gonna, like, I'm giving my all to this company to this brand, I love what I do. I'm so passionate about it, I really do love it. And, but I started to realize like, okay, but like, you're not caring as much as I care. So I'm like, that's something I want to change. So that's kind of why I was like, Alright, I'm gonna take starting this business seriously. And it's no longer just for sustainability reasons. And for putting clean product out there, it's now about creating an environment where people can come to work and be proud of where they work for and, and be able to have work life balance, and, you know, just be happy and not have to deal with the shit that people in industry deal with.

Amy: 8:46

Many people, whether it's fashion industry, or other industries, working, especially well, probably in startups, obviously, and also in corporate America, because they think culture is everything. And you can have a profitable business and be successful, but your culture can be terrible, or it can be really good. And I think especially nowadays, definitely the younger generation is more. I think they're looking at companies that have values of work life balance, and remote working or hybrid working, because like, why would they settle completely when they see like other generations being burned out? And like, at one point, I feel like there was this and it still is this like hustle culture and like burnout, like you have to burn out in order to like, be successful and like, No, thanks.

Chelsea: 9:35

Yeah. 100% I mean, that I looked back on it so many times, because I'm like, why is it this way? And I think there's a lot of pressure in fashion because you have so many people trying to get into this very small industry and it's really hard to get into it. So when you get a job, they it's almost like you're afraid to not work. work as hard as you can, and as long as you can, because you're afraid you're gonna get replaced. Right. And then especially in the pandemic, there was also this guilt that was created within the company because we didn't get furloughed. And lots of other design companies and brands were their workers. Were being furloughed, left and right. And it was like, We were almost made to feel like, Oh, we're lucky because that's it happened to us. And I do feel very fortunate about that. But it was taken one step further to where it was like, like, you felt like you had to work non stop, like you had a job, right? Yeah, exactly. Right. And I'm like that that culture should have never been been fostered. Yeah.

Amy: 10:41

Yeah. It's crazy at our company. I was furloughed. And now back, but I actually, Katie, and I started this podcast when I was furloughed, because I had time to think and realize a lot of things that you're realizing like, you need to start paying attention more to yourself and like your own health and your own well being versus like working and not, you know, getting back another word. And

Unknown: 11:06

then there's so much that so yeah, but the burnout culture, too. There's like we see so much on social media, people saying like, if you haven't done XYZ, then you haven't hustled enough today. And I think that there has been a little bit of a shift in regards to social media, people trying to focus more on to this respect, which is good. You know, I hate that. Like, we're even referencing the fact but it's 2022. It's like, we are looking at Instagram, we are looking at Tik Tok, and it's there, it's around us constantly. So I like that this, this shift is kind of happening all around us. When was it that you started? Like, did when did this happen? Like 2021? Like we're at When did your journey kind of change?

Chelsea: 11:53

Yeah, to 2021. So last year, is when I was like, Okay, I'm like, I'm no longer putting my job above everything else. I was like, I'm gonna do the best that I can. And I'm still I'm going to do what I can, I'm going to manage my team, I'm gonna, you know, take care of that I'm not going to, I'm not going to do a bad job, because that's just not me. But what I did was, I started, you know, getting up from my desk and making myself lunch. And I started going to yoga at a small studio in my, in my town, and I just started doing things for me. And I, you know, set rules where I was like, I'm not going

to work before 8: 12:35

30am I'm not going to work past six. And I was like, if I didn't get something done before, then it did it. That's it. Like, I just wasn't going

Amy: 12:44

to do it. That's very hard to do. How did you

Chelsea: 12:47

get i Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's almost impossible. And it's, I think I was just so done. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm not making it. This is gonna sound really bad. But I'm making these rich white men all these money. It's like, I why, why am I like, why am I having panic attacks for them? Right? Like, people. People aren't walking around the streets naked, like they have clothes. Getting this tech pack out, right? It's not doing

Unknown: 13:17

exactly, yeah, it's like, it's this.

Chelsea: 13:19

It's this this culture that, like, everything's urgent. Like I'm making T shirts for $20. Yeah, like, I'm not making vaccines. So I just did us, okay, no more,

Unknown: 13:31

and you set these boundaries, and you put up parameters that you're gonna put yourself first and take care of yourself. And so what did that do for you?

Chelsea: 13:42

So much, I will in the pandemic, I'd gained like 25 pounds. Just because I wasn't eating right. I wasn't exercising, I wasn't doing anything. And, you know, my husband and I were drinking beer every night. And we just it was like, Oh, wait, it was like, you know, like the first two weeks? It's like, oh, it's a vacation and that lasted a month another month.

Amy: 14:02

So every night you're like, why?

Chelsea: 14:06

I know like we're supporting the local business by like filling up our growlers. But, um, yeah, so I just, I was like, okay, I can no longer I'm like, this is just not good for me and, and that also just goes to the anxiety. It's like, alcohol does not help anxiety, it's actually a depressant. So like, that's making it worse. The food I'm eating is crap. So like, that's also not helping. I'm just not fueling my body. So when I made the decision to be a little more conscious about that, and then actually move, like when I found yoga that just, that is really where my mindset journey started. Because I just felt so grounded and you know, yoga, what I was doing, it was beginner yoga, so it wasn't like anything intense and I would just, it was like an hour for myself. And then the shavasana at the end of it is like That's kind of like, oh my god, I love this, like just laying here, not thinking about anything. Like I make these meditation I'm so I bring my eye mask, and I'm just like, oh my god, I'm like, This is what I need to do for myself. And it was just, I noticed after a couple months, I'm like, just personally, I feel more relaxed and more calm. And I think yeah, I don't know, I just I honestly feel like there has just been like a whole mindset shift, where I just feel better.

Unknown: 15:29

That's amazing.

Amy: 15:30

And when you made a question when you made those boundaries for yourself, like not going to work before, after this time? Did anything change at work? Or was it still the same? No, it was the same, right? Isn't that funny? Like, oh my god, the world's gonna like, fall apart. If I'm not working at seven in the morning. And PS you made boundaries for yourself. And you're like, oh, actually, yeah, fine. Yeah, I've done similar things. And it's like, yeah, everything still happens. So point, it was probably

Chelsea: 15:55

actually better, because then I was so focused on what I had to get done that day, in that timeframe so that I could relax after six. And it's right. It's my it's like that.

Amy: 16:07

You know, work. Work smarter.

Unknown: 16:09

Not harder. Yeah.

Chelsea: 16:10

Something? Uh huh. Yeah, my assistant used to say that as so funny. But, yeah.

Unknown: 16:17

So do you have a meditation practice as well? Or is it do you at the is it the Shavasana? At the end that you kind of take that moment?

Chelsea: 16:26

Yeah, mostly, mostly Shavasana. I've tried a few guided meditations. But I'm very particular. And I think what I've realized is that I really just like laying in silence, or like, I'll put on sound bath music or something like that, and just lay for 30 minutes or whatever, just collect myself and have a minute to myself. I don't have kids yet, but I have a very chatty husband. So the silence is great. I normally do before he wakes up, but I'm like, Okay, I'm ready for the day. That's great.

Amy: 17:03

That's funny. So you had also mentioned like, just general mindset work that you do through yoga, but was there any books or podcasts that you read or listened to? That really helps with that? Yeah,

Chelsea: 17:15

yeah. So I am a huge, huge fan of Rachael Rogers. I don't know if you've heard of her, but she haven't. Oh, my God, you have to look her up. She's amazing. But she so I started I found her podcast on Spotify. Probably a year or so though. It's called the Hello seven podcast. And it's it's a business podcast. But the way she talks about mindset in business, and specifically like money, mindset, and boundaries, and all this stuff, I started listening to her podcast, and then she released a book. So I read it, I pre ordered her book, I read it, and I think I've listened to the audiobook, like three times. Oh, wow. Yeah, she's amazing. I also really love cinerea. Madani, she teaches the CEO school. And she she does a lot of like mindset. She teaches just overall in business, but she teaches a lot of like, mindset work as well.

Unknown: 18:10

I'm excited to check these out. Yeah, they're

Amy: 18:13

able to you actually, you don't hear a lot of mindset in business conversations. It's really about just mindset in general, which is helpful. And yeah, you know, useful, but then you're like, Well, how does that apply to my daily business? Like, how do you fix others? How do you lead that way? So I'm very interested in hearing that. That's cool.

Chelsea: 18:32

Yeah, yeah. Let me know what you think when you check it out. But they are. They're amazing.

Unknown: 18:36

Speaking of business, awesome. So you have started this gorgeous, gorgeous candle collection. And I need to like, I need to buy some because I want to smell them. You say it's tear. How do you say it? Because I'm afraid I'm going to say the entire array array array.

Chelsea: 18:56

Array. Yeah. So

Unknown: 18:57

tell us all about to array collective because your product really is beautiful.

Chelsea: 19:01

Oh, thanks. Yeah. So to array you know, just kind of continuing on from my meditation journey and just finding that, that well being and self care practice. Like I said, I started getting into yoga, and then I was like, I want to make these meditation imass. So like, enhance, you know, enhance my practice. And so I started, I love silk. I've always loved silk. And I'm a natural dye artist. So I work with tie dyes, and I only use botanical dyes, so no synthetic dyes or anything like that. So I started making these eye masks and then you know, I'm also a little woowoo so I was like, Oh, how can I incorporate like crystals and all this stuff. So I started making I started filling them with different crystal blends and herbs like I have one that has lavender in it. I have one that has sage in it. So I started making those for my practice and then if you go to a yoga studio. It smells like Palo Santo and sage and you have that, that environment there in the studio. But then when I was working from home, I was like, you know, I'm kind of missing that aromatherapy aspect of it. And I've always loved candles. But once you start learning about what's in them, I'm like, Okay, I don't really want to burn that in my home. So I started, I just bought a wax melter and just started creating these scents that corresponded with the IMS scents, and just making this whole set and just creating this whole environment. And then, you know, during the pandemic, we're all in our home. So I just literally just started making tons of candles that I just became obsessed, and, you know, they're all they're all made in either metal or brass soon to be, or stone jars. They're all soy wax. All the fragrance oils are fairly free. So there's no plasticizers in them or anything. And then all the wicks are FSC certified wooden wicks, that's, I love

Unknown: 21:01

your wick. I have found a candle that I have found locally. That is the same thing and it makes it crackle does yours crackle when it burns a little bit a little bit of a mouthful. I

Chelsea: 21:13

love that. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, yeah. No, I just love the the look of it. And then yeah, the crackle is like a little bit of a bonus. But

Amy: 21:23

it was that kind of wick better than a like, what's the difference? I don't know this between. I've seen those wicks. I don't know the difference between that wick and just like the regular. Yeah,

Chelsea: 21:32

it's a slower burn. So your candle lasts longer. And also there are some I mean, I'm sure I could source them that a lot of cotton wicks will have like either plastic in the hour, you know, you never know. So like, these are just straight wood. Oh, interesting. It's just easier

Unknown: 21:49

for me. It sounds like like a wood burning fireplace aiming. Like if you can kind of hear it. Yeah, it's really it's I love that. Yeah.

Chelsea: 21:56

Yeah. What are some thoughts about the vibe? Totally? Yeah.

Unknown: 22:00

What are some of the setups that you have?

Chelsea: 22:02

So my favorite is a palo santo sage and patchouli. It's very earthy, very, like grounding. And then we also have a coconut some tall and food, which is really great. We also have our haze Lux candle is burning oak and cedar and rosemary. So that's more of like your masculine scent. But yeah, we have. I mean, I think we have 16 different scents right now. Oh,

Amy: 22:33

my God, they sound incredible.

Unknown: 22:34

Now, thank you. And you have Chris Yes. And the the wax as well what happens to the crystals as it as it starts to burn down.

Chelsea: 22:43

So when you light it there, typically when you burn a candle, you'll get like maybe half inch of melted wax at the top. So when it melts, the crystals and the herbs will sink down. But as the candles lit, you can see them in the wax because the wax is translucent when it's heated. And then at the end, once your candle is finished, because it's soy wax, it's really easy to clean out. So you just pour some hot water in there, it'll turn the remaining wax into an oil. And then you can either save the chips if you want to. You can reuse the vessel. But yeah, for me, it's all about that. Just sort of that feeling like you know, a lot of us there's people that say that crystals have healing powers. For me, it's more about the intention and the the vibe behind it because I don't know if there's actually here healing properties. Maybe there is maybe there's that but for me, I think they're beautiful. And they make me feel relaxed and calm. And so yeah, that's that's kind of the intention behind them.

Unknown: 23:47

I love it. I can't tell you how many people that we've talked to about crystals and they all use the word woowoo. Like every

Chelsea: 23:54

I think it's an LA every person

Unknown: 23:58

we talked to that says crystal like I'm a little woowoo every single day I

Amy: 24:03

don't want to get woowoo or like so how do people so on your websites are a collective.com is where you have these candles and you sell the eyemask still and what else do you sell?

Chelsea: 24:19

Yeah, so right now it's the candles and the eye masks. We will be going into some other home accessories next year and then by 2024 I want to launch a lounge line. So it'll be this whole experience you get in your silk kaftan. You go light your candle you lay down you meditate. So I want to create this whole this whole experiential brand

Unknown: 24:46

and love it and love Yeah, I can't wait to

Amy: 24:49

So when did you did you? Did you start the business like a year ago you said yeah, I'm just so what's the end? Are you still at this company or you left that No, I

Chelsea: 25:00

left the company. Yeah, I

Amy: 25:01

left that night I moved to Cal. And how was that? I kind of want to hear about that for a second.

Chelsea: 25:06

Um, it was, it was, it was great for me. I think it was, you know, I

Amy: 25:14

felt so free. It was.

Chelsea: 25:15

Yeah, I mean, it was that time I had been there for four years. And I like to equate it to a bad breakup. Because when I first got there, when I first started, I was like, This is my place. This is where I'm going to work till I retire. The people that I worked with, I mean, I'm still very close to them to this day, like we're still friends. But once once everything kind of flipped, and turned sour, and, and I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna say it was all the company, it was all the culture like, like, that was part of it. But it was also me just waking up and be like, I'm not okay with this anymore. Right? I'm like, this is not, this is not what I want anymore. So it was almost like that mutual like, Okay, it's time to split ways. So it was tough. And I don't get to see the people that I spent four years with anymore, all the time. But you know, they're doing just fine without me.

Amy: 26:13

I'm telling you might feel so like rejuvenated, running your own business, in your own calls and doing it the way you want to do it. And that's

Chelsea: 26:21

the thing. You know, I this year has been like the year of reflection for me, and I look back and I realized that I've always wanted to start a company, I've always had this entrepreneurial spirit. When I was in school, I went to MIT. And I got my Associates in design. And then I had signed up to do my bachelor's in entrepreneurship. But I ended up getting a job offer so I took the job offer instead. So I didn't you know, I only finished with my associates. I didn't go on for the bachelors. But it's always been in me, I've always wanted this and I think that I just, I don't know, like, I also love nature. So when I started learning how, how gross and dirty the fashion industry is, in terms of just like just the, the materials, that's you everything, there's so much shit going on there. I was like literally sick to my stomach, I'm like, okay, like, I can't be a part of this anymore. And then so this way I get to create product because you know, consumerism is never going to stop, people are always gonna be buying things. So I'm like, at least this way, I know that what I'm making is being done in a responsible, healthy and respectful way. And you know, as a company grows, I aim to create a culture that is beneficial to the people that work for it. And you know, just just create this place where people can can grow and develop and we'll have some we'll have four day work weeks and, and maybe have a European model where we get like a month off in the summer. You know, there's just like, I just want people to be happy. I think that's like why why do something that doesn't make you happy that I mean

Unknown: 28:03

good on you for creating that and like the bigger picture you first you're doing this small piece getting it started as a start up. It's it's filling your soul. But now as you expand you, you want to provide a safe, happy, healthy culture work environment. For others. It's just very cool. It's very cool for full circle thing that we can't wait to watch and see Jay. So congratulations. Thank you. So I think we should get into our rap session because I am curious about these questions with yo so Amy want to kick it off? Yes,

Amy: 28:40

sure. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Chelsea: 28:45

Sleep and water?

Unknown: 28:47

Those are two

Chelsea: 28:49

I'm all for naps. I love a good 45 minute nap.

Unknown: 28:53

You know it's funny I just saw this is so random. But Bethenny Frankel who by the way is like a major entrepreneur. Right? incredibly successful. Yeah, people somebody was asking her like, What's her number one thing and she said she prioritizes sleep above everything else. Like that's it like you get a good night's sleep and you get all the sleep you need. Everything else falls into place. I think that's very true. Yeah. All right. So now

Amy: 29:16

if you guys ever see her on tick tock, she's amazing. Yes, she does. Product Reviews websites. She's so good. She like does reviews of all the drugstore brands and she tells you like you know on the expensive one what's worth it? What's not drugstore, she's great. Anyway.

Chelsea: 29:31

Check her out. Yeah, she's funny. I liked her.

Unknown: 29:34

This next one we call it our five minute flow. You just got out of the shower. Uber's pinged you there five minutes away. What are you going to do to quickly get it together and get in that Uber on time? What are your holy grails you

Chelsea: 29:45

go to use sunscreen because I'm very pale living in Southern California. Deodorant again because it's very hot. And then jeans and a T and flip

Unknown: 29:56

flops. Nice and you're ready to rock? Yeah, love it.

Chelsea: 30:00

because then I'm good to go.

Amy: 30:02

And lastly, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Chelsea: 30:05

My 30 minutes before my husband gets up, most of my dogs are still sleeping. And I take that that 2025 minute quiet meditation time to just ground myself for the day.

Unknown: 30:18

Yeah, but the time is so important. Well, Chelsea, thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to meet you. And we're so excited for you and excited to follow your journey and we love your product and everything you're putting out in the world. So thanks for being on the show. Before we go, Amy, you want to wrap with a mantra or a quote for us today?

Amy: 30:38

Yes, so I think this one matches our conversation perfectly and it is this chapter of my life is called knowing my worth and acting accordingly.

Unknown: 30:49

Oh, I like that. Yeah.

Amy: 30:51

So nice to meet you Chelsea. And thank you so much for sharing your story so important you

Chelsea: 30:55

thank you so much. This was awesome. This was so much fun

Amy: 30:58

everyone check out Terry collective and follow on Instagram. They have beautiful, beautiful stuff. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 75 - Eating For Mental Health - How To Fuel Your Brain With Natasha Coughlin, Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 75 .

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

hanging around the sisters family hope you enjoyed part one last week with Natasha Coughlin. And if you missed it, feel free to check it out. Great episode lots of good information shared and in this short part two continuation of the episode, we finish our conversation on eating for mental health. We talk about top tips for improving gut health and digestion, how to know how much protein and fat you need, and Natasha's thoughts on organic food and more. Enjoy this part two episode.

Katie Chandler: 0:58

I'm curious what your top tips are for improving gut health? Because that's obviously the number one thing for you. It's when you start, do you feel like you start there with your with your clients as making sure that their gut health isn't as in place? What do you do to get there?

Natasha Coughlin: 1:13

Well, we test I mean, I usually do a stool test. I mean, it's not the most popular option with adults, but people kind of tend to do it. You know, they say if you know, I trust you, if you think it will be helpful, you know, I'll do it. So yeah, so we look to see kind of what they're you know, they have enough digestive enzymes, enough stomach acid, what they're, you know, the big thing now is the microbiome, right, kind of what the microbiome are doing, what kind of bacterial composition is there. So we look at all of those things, but, you know, ultimately, you know, gut health is depending on whether you're kind of where you're starting, if there's actually you know, repair that needs to happen, then we do, you know, we do certain supplements, some herbs and some vitamins, and nutrients that kind of feed that lining to make sure it becomes nice and impermeable, again, right, nice and tight. And, you know, again, foods like bone broth are really good. Anything with probiotics, right fermented, like the like, you know, pickles, sauerkraut, those kinds of, you know, yogurt, I'm not, I'm not a fan of dairy. So some kind of do not usually recommend non, some kind of non dairy yogurt. But, you know, really, gut health is so individual, like I do kind of approach it with, you know, based on test results, and really, you know, talking to a person. So, but yeah, so those are, you know, some of the foods like bone broth is very healing anything. You know, again, you know, the general formula is kind of your, your plant heavy, Whole Foods, you know, try to avoid pesticides, so organic food as much as possible, because I think there's not, you know, not a lot of understanding about, you know, what, what pesticides are, and they're really, you know, they're kind of meant to affect that it's almost kind of like combust the digestive system of pests. So you don't glyphosate right, in the in the pesticides. So So basically, that's kind of what it does to us as well, if we eat foods that are conventional, and, you know, it sounds a little too dramatic, perhaps. But yeah, it does, you know, eating conventional foods can contribute to that hyperpermeability. So you know, organic food as much as possible, and just, you know, real Whole Foods, and then, of course, you know, chewing your food really well and making sure we're eating in a mindful manner. And we're sitting down and actually, you know, looking at the food and smelling the food, and, you know, taking a few deep breaths to put the nervous system in that rest and digest state, because usually we're in a fight or flight, right, we're going and then, you know, then we sit down and we grab something while doing something else. So the brain actually has to catch up. Yeah, the brain has to ultimately send the signals to the digestive tract, the food is coming in and you know, the enzymes have to be produced, the stomach acid has to be produced. So if we are not even looking at the food, we're just kind of grabbing an eating, we are ready, you know, a couple of steps behind so digestion is gonna start after you've already started eating and that's kind of too late.

Katie Chandler: 4:24

That's so true. And it's also like it's, it's too late for your brain to tell you that you're not hungry anymore. Like I know when I'm on the go. I just I feel like I'm constantly hungry. It's because I didn't slow down and take the time for my brain to catch up with the fact that I've eaten and I enjoyed my meal and right you know, so yeah, that's interesting. I'm just really quickly how do you feel about collagen supplements? I have been taking one recently and I believe it's good for gut health as well.

Natasha Coughlin: 4:53

Yeah, yeah. Collagen I mean, that's what's in your bone broth because Bone broth has all the you know, vitamins and minerals as well, but I Um, I think collagen is good. I mean, I like to, I like to use collagen in kind of alternating with just a whole, you know, protein powder, not just the collagen because collagen is, you know, missing one amino acid. So it's not a complete complete protein. But, you know, generally I like it, I mean, it's good to you know, add to your smoothies mix into a yogurt and mix it into pancake batter. It is important to get that protein in the morning so, I do I do like to use collagen as you know, as a source of protein, but also I have some kind of a whole protein powder as well, you know, perhaps on like alternating mornings,

Amy: 5:43

do you have any collagen or collagen or collagen protein powders that you recommend?

Natasha Coughlin: 5:50

I use vital Vital Proteins, Vital Proteins collagen, for the collagen powder. I like that be well by Callie. Because it's you know, she, she says, um, and you know, of course I trust what What would her company are, are saying that it's you know, very, very clean, you know, it's breast that produced without any chemicals. So that's the one I like, I don't like vegetarian protein powders, because you know, brown rice again, there's so much to talk about brown rice, even organic being contaminated with arsenic. I just kind of thought, you know, and vegetable protein is not that bioavailable, so I would rather go with something like collagen or just a whole, like grass fed beef, you know, based protein, rather than any of the brown rice based protein powder. I mean, I can you know, something like a ham protein with very minimal ingredients is, you know, would be a good way to go. But otherwise I go with no animal. And yeah, cuz

Amy: 6:55

I keep hearing like a lot of controversy about pea protein, as well. And I don't really know, I can't remember exactly what they're saying. But I just feel like I hear noise about that.

Natasha Coughlin: 7:04

Yeah, again, it's, it's all about how it's produced, like, a lot of times it's, you know, heavily heavily processed, and how they sort of extract things, there's a lot of that, that it's not, it's not a very, you know, clean process. And again, you know, peas, you know, peas are kind of an issue for a lot of people, I actually, this sort of triggers a memory, I had a client who was a vegetarian and was just using pea protein bass powder every day. And when we did her food sensitivity testing, that was the first thing that came up was like peas was like in the red, the highest, you know, IgG levels of, you know, antibodies to that. And, you know, in her case, it was you know, she had digestive issues, kind of weight loss resistance. And, you know, one of the things we did was we swapped her people just she did start eating some seafood and fish. So I kind of took you know, she wasn't a strict vegetarian anymore. But we also replaced her protein powder with something else and just actually some real sources of protein not just you know, not just something that comes from a you know, from a bottle. And we saw some great results especially, you know, weight was like weight loss that was kind of almost miraculous and she she kind of lost all those unwanted pounds very quickly that were just they're not not budging, and nice. So, yeah, so, yeah, so pros. I mean, I think protein powders is super helpful. And again, there's, you know, a variety of when people mix them into coffee, certainly smoothie, yogurt, pancake batter, you know, things like that. So in chia pudding when I make my chia pudding, even though chia seeds have the, you know, protein, and you know, good fiber, too, I still put a scoop of protein powder, just to beef it up a little too. And beef up. I mean, like beef up on the coast.

Amy: 8:58

Yeah, I always go back and forth with protein powder. I feel like I'm really into it and making shakes and doing all those things, or I'm like, not at all and I like just try to eat protein, like real protein, but um, it just reminds me like, I should just add it to things as you're cooking, it's a really good reminder.

Natasha Coughlin: 9:15

I think that's how it goes. I think we all go through that right in the smoothies. I mean, sometimes you're just absolutely sick of smoothies. And again, like we are now going into colder months like I know I'll be making soup you know, a lot more soups and a lot you know, fewer smoothies so so there's really no right or wrong I mean food is you know, it has to be done for enjoyment Right? Like you have to be actually enjoying where you're eating. And we get sick of things you know, if you if you made them your sort of same smoothie all the time, you would definitely want something different and as I tell my clients, you know, there's no right or wrong. Usually breakfast foods seem to be the tough ones. And I always say you know there's no right or wrong if you want your leftover chicken with veggies from the day before like you can have that For breakfast, like who said you can't. So so anything, anything kind of goes as long as it's, you know, nutritious as long as it's, you know, something your body is enjoying. And, you know, again, this kind of breakfast makes me think of the whole intermittent fasting as well, and people, you're skipping breakfast. I'm a big proponent of eating breakfast, I think it's much better and then delaying eating until later in the day, like all the research says that finishing your eating window earlier in the day is much better than not starting until like two o'clock in the afternoon. So, so breakfast, you know, maybe not the most important meal of the day, because I feel like that was the Cheerios message, you know, but it is like it really is important and having enough protein, but breakfast is I would say kind of like, you know, protein and fat, right? Because we always get the carbohydrates somehow, you know, from fruits, vegetables some way, but it's getting enough of the healthy protein and fats, and especially to start your day like that.

Amy: 11:06

Do you have a recommendation? No, this is like, hard to do, because it's very individualized. But like, how someone can determine how much protein and fat they need, because like, sometimes I will eat a healthy fat like nuts or salmon or whatever. And then I like won't have something else that's a healthy fat because I'm like, oh, maybe that's too much. But without tracking, which is like I've done and I hate doing is there a way to just generally kind of know like, if you're having enough protein or fat?

Natasha Coughlin: 11:34

Well, protein, I mean protein is kind of is more straightforward. The general formula is one gram of protein per kilogram of body weight. So your, you know, you divide your pounds by 2.2. And that's your, your weight in kilograms. And so one gram of protein per kilogram. So for, you know, for me, it's about, you know, 4550 grams of protein. So I know it's an equivalent of like, two chicken breasts. And, and I know I may not have two chicken breasts, but you know, I always start my breakfast with protein. And you know, no matter what I'm eating, I'm kind of like, I know that I'm getting that 10 to 15 grams of protein with my breakfast, whether it's in like a you know, Greek yogurt with like an added protein or I'm having like a chia pudding, or I'm having you know, something with nut butter with like, extra seeds on top, you know, something so 10 to 15 grams with your breakfast, and then the rest will be divided between lunch and dinner. But yeah, whatever kind of whatever fits in, like a piece of animal protein that fits in the palm of your hand is about 20 grams, you know, can be 20 to 25. So and then what about Yeah, you know, fats, there's really no requirement for fats, we just know that they have to be healthy. So rum Satish, I know, you know, I know my if I'm eating salmon, you know, I'm getting my good omega threes, olive oil is a really healthy fat. So just you know, dressing your, I always Drizzle olive oil on either salads or cooked vegetable. So that's kind of always there. And I never measure. Again, if we're dealing with you know, weight loss, you know, you may kind of need to look at the total calories in calories and see how much of that is coming from fat. But, you know, some people overdo things on the nuts. So nuts are about like, 10 nuts as a serving, like, that's kind of what you want to have per day. So not just like, keep grabbing from a bag and then at the end of the day, you realize the bag is empty and you know, you know, 12 ounces or something. So, but otherwise, if if fat is healthy, you know, whether it's you know, half of an avocado, you know, tablespoon of olive oil, you know, a piece of salmon, you know, in you know, even something like coconut oil I know there's some controversy because it's a you know, saturated fat but I think coconut oil, olive oil, coconut oil is healthy and like, tasted delicious on you know, certain foods, so, so, ya know, a

Amy: 14:03

lot of people put that in their coffee in the morning to coconut oil.

Natasha Coughlin: 14:07

Yeah, I like MCT. So MCT oil is derived from coconut oil, but it doesn't have that flavor. And it's much it's digested. Like it doesn't go through digestion the same way as others. Yes. Yeah. So I have to do Yeah, I like MCT like powder in my coffee. Or I use it as a liquid just to like put on a toast or pancakes or in a smoothie actually makes a smoothie just like tastes. It gives smoothies, this sort of round flavor. If you're a little bit of MCT oil. It's a good it's a good you know, speaking of mental health, it's a good brain fuel.

Katie Chandler: 14:42

Yeah, I love my MCT oil. Is it every morning? Yeah, you

Amy: 14:45

got me into that.

Katie Chandler: 14:47

Just really quickly before we move on to our wrap session. I so I love that you have mentioned organic, organic, organic because I actually had someone tell me the other day that it is is like complete nonsense. And that it's just the like the organic farmers are all paid off. It was like this total, like ridiculous the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I want to hear from your nutritionist mouth. organics the way to go yes, if you can do that.

Natasha Coughlin: 15:19

Yes, I mean, I don't think it's like some big hoax. I mean, there's certainly you know, we can't control how, you know, 100% exclusively, you know, organic food is because again, there's a water supply, right, there's a air, we can't you know, nothing is grown in a silo, right, you can't really protect your fields from anything that's possibly coming in. But if food is not sprayed with glyphosate, that's pretty much as much as we can control. And I think that's what, you know, that's what's better for us. So because, again, that, you know, glyphosate is a, you know, it's, it's actually meant to disrupt the digestive tract of, of the pests. So therefore, it kind of does it to us as well. So, so I would say, organic, organic, organic, I do follow the Dirty Dozen clean 15 You know, every year when they put out their list, because there's some things that are just too expensive, organic or not available, or, you know, I know something has a thick skin and it's on the clean 15 You know, I just peel it and I know that I'm you know, I'm not getting the I'm not getting the pesticides from that. So, so that's, I would say at least do the dirty dozen clean 15 and kind of by those by those foods organic because I certainly, I mean, I honestly hate to see people who are like juicing their spinach or salary in their conventional you know, when I see people buying big bunches of conventional celery or conventional, you know, bags of spinach, because they're clearly for some kind of mass, you know, either juicing or smoothies or something like that. You know, yes, you're you're getting you know, you're you're getting the good but you're getting the bad a lot of battle with Yeah, with the goods. So, yeah, so I do like organic, of course, if it's available, if it's not cost prohibitive. The way to go

Katie Chandler: 17:18

next, thank you. Okay, I'm glad to hear that up. All right. Well, really quickly. Where can our listeners find you Natasha,

Natasha Coughlin: 17:25

integrative health, rd as an registered dietitian, integrative health rd.com. That's my website. And then I'm on Instagram at Natasha Coghlan. Fantastic.

Amy: 17:38

And do you do virtual appointments as well as people are able to do

Natasha Coughlin: 17:41

most of my appointments now? Our zoom? Yeah, nice.

Katie Chandler: 17:45

That's great. Okay. All right. Well, we're gonna get into our signature wrap session, we just have a couple questions for you. We want to know the first one, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Natasha Coughlin: 17:57

I would say my favorite wellness hack is going outside in the morning. I mean, that is my hands down. That's what I preach. That's where I practice that, you know, we have to go outside and get that first morning light just to turn off the melatonin, get the you know, get the other things started. So really so much research on that, that we need that first morning light and if it's combined with movements, even better, so like, like a 2030 minute morning walk out, of course, you can't if you can't do 30 minutes, just do something like around your yard or something that just exposes the eyes to the natural light. And, you know, as far as beauty definitely non toxic, just non toxic, you know, clean beauty. I used to harbor quite a bit because she's a friend and you know, I've kind of got to try a lot of her products. But anything, you know, anything that's from the non toxic brands, I would, you know, definitely I've been in I've been doing that for like, you know, the last 15 or 20 years. So really not exposing yourself to chemicals through beauty. Because that's again, it's not just it's not just for skin health, you know, we expose ourselves to chemicals that are disruptive to their immune system to their hormones. So really watching that and you know, kind of going minimal I would say you know that with beauty it's you know, you want clean beauty and fewer products if possible. And you know, my big pet peeve is perfume definitely like fragrances you know, like the chemical perfume I just cannot do because I read somewhere there's five to 700 different chemicals mixed. So I was like, I don't want that I might try to do some kind of you know, essential oil blend or something like that.

Katie Chandler: 19:45

It's it's weird. I just like the last couple of years I've had a complete aversion to perfume and I used to wear it every single day I need to do just like I couldn't. It was always like so offensive to me for some reason. I don't know why.

Amy: 19:57

Yeah, yeah, I can't wear anything. I used to wear stuff

Unknown: 19:59

too because Yeah,

Natasha Coughlin: 20:01

yeah, well, you know what it is, again, I think we're so overloaded right our bodies are so overloaded with toxins that we have this you know, threshold of detox where we're just dealing with so much that adding this another kind of layer of of a toxic and that's just, you know, offensive sort of, you know, offensive to the body and the liver has to, you know, metabolize it in you go through it and get rid of it. That I think that's just kind of like the straw that breaks the camel's back. Yeah, you know, it's just to agree

Katie Chandler: 20:32

with that. Okay. All right, this next one, we'll call your five minute flow you just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber pink, do their five minutes away. What are you going to do to quickly get yourself together and ready and out the door into that Uber on time?

Natasha Coughlin: 20:46

Okay, so shower, I guess I've taken a shower, cold shower, the end, just you know, 30 seconds of like a super cold shower at the end. That's I guess I would say that's my other you know, wellness hack is the is a cold shower, you know, minimal minimal skincare or some kind of a you know, moisturizer and yeah, either like a touch of Harper or OSHA or Malibu or what else do I use? You know, I usually have a few so some Yeah, some kind of just a daytime moisturizer and mascara, usually just mascara, a little bit of blush, actual blush that I use on my lips as well, you know, like a one of those creamy, creamy blush things. So kind of a non toxic mascara, and Ilia or Pacific or something like that. And what else I'm I'm totally crazy about my theory, like jogger pants that I got, I got a couple of pairs two weeks ago. And now like that's what I put on in the morning, but like a white t shirt. And they're kind of cute and stylish, but they're still comfortable like joggers, almost so and I don't know how I lived without them until I bought them two weeks ago,

Amy: 22:01

but sounds amazing. Yeah,

Natasha Coughlin: 22:05

they're, you know, they're these high waisted. I mean, that's what I wear. Like there are pants

Amy: 22:11

but there's a really cute,

Natasha Coughlin: 22:13

very versatile anyway. Yeah. So that's, that's what I would do. Yeah, but I think just you know, again, having it's good having a schedule, having a plan, Ryan kind of like doing things consistently, like day after day. Like I know, I really went outside and got my little bit of, you know, a few minutes of sun I did my cold shower that always wakes me up. And that's kind of what it's meant to do. Right sort of grabs up metabolism gives you that jolt of energy. And yeah, from there, it's pretty, pretty simple, really nice. So it'd be prepared, I think being prepared, right? I really have my kind of my outfit in mind. I have my dis few, you know, skincare things on the calendar, it's all their glass of water, you know, always glass of water in the morning for mental health because again, like I tell my clients, you know, we all kind of feel slightly fuzzy and foggy in the morning because brain does shrink, you know, kind of microscopically overnight. So we do we do need a glass of water in the morning to kind of get get things going not just from the metabolism perspective, like it's good for for metabolism and sort of general energy, but the brain needs it as well.

Katie Chandler: 23:25

Get out of that morning brain fog. Nice. All right. Well, it sounds like you also gave us how you maintain your daily Nirvana from the outdoors? And would you say in your showers? Is there any other maintainer dealing?

Natasha Coughlin: 23:40

Oh, that's a tricky one. I don't know if I do we know. I think we covered it. It's hard, right? Yeah, it's just you know, things things happen, right? I mean, Life is stressful. So true. The things always happened. But um, well, I have to mention in this again, going back to mental health, alcohol, like I don't, I don't drink alcohol at all. And I feel like it does, again, there's research that you know, alcohol, lowers our stress resilience. So I feel like that's might be one of the things that's helping me you know, it's like you get up in the morning and you don't have that little bit of a, you know, hangover thing. And, you know, you can sort of deal with whatever life throws at you that day. Better. You know, because I kind of have a good start, right and sleep. I mean, I know we didn't even touch on sleep, but obviously, so huge. You know, sleep is like, disrupted sleep is the best way to drive someone crazy, right? Yeah, physically. So yeah,

Katie Chandler: 24:41

I can. I can everything. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, Natasha, thank you so much for your time. This gave us a lot of great information. I know our listeners are gonna love it. We really appreciate your time. And before we go, we like to wrap with a mantra or an affirmation. So let's wrap up this one. I think it's appropriate. Good health is a practice and I have patients. So just to remember to set it right.

Natasha Coughlin: 25:10

All right, but like that, yeah, nothing nothing happens overnight. I mean, all of these practices that we've been talking about, like they only work if they're consistent, like you can't just do it for a couple of days and say, you know, throw in a towel, you know, this doesn't work.

Amy: 25:25

Consistency is every soldier. Yeah. Yeah, well, so nice to meet you. We could like talk to you for hours. I feel like we need to have you back safe like so many more questions in my head. But this has been so informational and helpful, and I know our listeners are going to love it. So thank you again for being on the show. We'll make sure to be thank

Natasha Coughlin: 25:41

you guys it was so while it was so fun.

Amy: 25:45

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 74 - Eating For Mental Health - How To Fuel Your Brain With Natasha Coughlin, Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 74.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome to the show Nirvana sisters family. This week we are very excited to introduce Natasha Coghlan. Natasha is an integrative and functional dietician, nutritionist and holistic health coach. She received her Master's of Science and Human Nutrition degree from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons. She's completed her master's thesis work at Weill Cornell comprehensive metabolic weight control center. And she worked with many clients ranging from endocrine issues, diabetes, prediabetes, PCOS, thyroid disease, and so on. Although Natasha is classically trained dietician, her personal and professional interests have always been in the field of functional and integrative medicine. She's received a certification of holistic health coach through the Institute of Integrative Nutrition and a certification through the creative and functional nutrition Academy. Her interest is in health promoting cooking. And it's brought her to the natural gourmet Institute in New York City, which is all very interesting, I want to hear about that. And, again, we're she's trained in allergen free diets. And today, we're gonna be discussing a lot of topics, one of which is eating for mental health. So these are all really interesting topics. So welcome to the show, Natasha. Thank you. Thank you, Katie. It's good to see you. It's nice to meet you, Amy. And Bill, nice to meet you. Yeah, have you on your background is really

Amy: 1:59

vast and exciting. And we haven't had anyone like you on the show. So we're so excited to get into it and hear all about your wisdom. Yeah.

Natasha Coughlin: 2:08

Thank you. Thank you. It's really good to be here. Yeah, I've, you know, I spent several years in school. And this is as a mom of three. So this is kind of my, I guess, second third career really after being a stay at home mom. So I've started my practice in 2019. So this kind of kind of recent doing this, but really studying health and nutrition has been a lifelong journey. And I think as so many functional medicine practitioners are kind of come to it from a personal place where I was struggling with my own issues, digestive mostly, kind of that feeling of never feeling well, and not finding any answers and answers from conventional doctors. So that brought me to, you know, looking for answers. And then my son's diagnosis with autism was definitely the impetus for just doing a lot of research. And you know, then finally getting my formal education and starting my own practice, and now, helping people with variety of different conditions, which I enjoy and love, and certainly getting that, you know, oh my God, no one has ever told me this before. Like, I feel so much better. So that's super, super

Katie Chandler: 3:16

rewarding. It's amazing. Alright, well, before we get into all of our questions, we have a lot for you. Let's kick it off with our nirvana of the week. So Amy, do you want to start us off with what your Nirvana was this week?

Amy: 3:27

Yeah. So I would say and this is probably a lot of people's nirvana. Over the last few weeks, my kids started school this week, which has been really nice to just get back into the routine routine. I feel like summer flew by and I wasn't quite ready for back to school, but I'm starting to ease into it. I'm just not used to the new schedule, even though we just had it a couple of months ago. It just feels like summer was long, but summer was short. So I'm excited for them to get back to school and get on a routine and just stick it back into their back into the swing of things. So that was definitely nirvana for me this week. What about UK?

Katie Chandler: 4:03

I think I had a couple of buddies. We had a party on Saturday, it was kind of like the Labor Day weekend party, if you will. And we just had some friends over and it was probably one. As Amy knows, I've mentioned this a few times that we did a lot of hosting this summer. It was probably one of the times that I hosted that I just like really let loose and didn't care and had a good time. I wasn't so good. You actually yeah, it wasn't so crazy about all the hosting duties and just kind of let loose and have fun. So that was really nice. And the kids had a great time. It was gorgeous. Yeah, what about unit Tasha?

Natasha Coughlin: 4:36

Well, I'm thinking of just yesterday morning, I came downstairs to pack my sixth grader for school. And she was already downstairs unloading the dishwasher. Like oh, I was like, are you okay? Do you want just make yourself breakfast and stuff I might come down and you know, pack your lunch but you look like you're all set. You know, it's still early. So I think I literally went back upstairs and you know, read a book for a little bit and then Add or some, you know, that was, you know, that was kind of fun. I was like, Okay, this is something new and new and different and and then last week I went to Vermont with my son, which was I just can't not mention that because we went swimming in this beautiful, what you're sort of waterhole with a waterfall and then we had the most delicious maple roast chicken at like a local diner minimally so. So seeing huge smile on his face, just kind of, and he's, you know, he's my guy with autism. So, as a mom, you're only as happy as your most miserable child. So he was smiling. I was happy. So definitely, definitely in Nirvana right there.

Katie Chandler: 5:37

So nice. It wasn't just the two of you that went to Vermont together.

Natasha Coughlin: 5:41

It was just the two of us. Me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

Amy: 5:43

that's, that's special of that

Katie Chandler: 5:45

time together. All right, well, let's dive into it. Because we have a lot to cover, I think the best place to start is to help us better understand this overarching kind of theme, I guess, that you have of eating for mental health, because this feels like a new approach that not a lot of people have maybe thought about. And I understand the respect of, you know, you're a well balanced meal, and it's filled with nutrients and vitamins and things. But it can seem like a big mountain to climb to really achieve that. So how how do you address that with your clients? And what does all of that mean to you?

Natasha Coughlin: 6:22

Well, I think when I was, you know, kind of preparing for this conversation, I thought of, you know, what are the messages that I want to put out. And the big thing that I just sort of kept coming back to is, you know, we need to demystify what mental health is, because I think the whole concept of the human mind that is so complex, and so dependent on what the outside world is putting out, right, or the chaos, the you know, con me political situation, you know, what the boss is doing, thinking, et cetera, we kind of have to, I think, get away from that a little bit and look inward. And I feel like a lot of times, mental health issues are more of a result of like, not what's happening around us, but what's kind of happening on the inside. And I think the whole concept of you know, the human mind sort of lives in the physical body, right, the human mind resides in the human brain. So we have to remember that, that the brain is, you know, it is part of our physical health. So we need to sort of think of it in the same way we think of supporting heart health, immune health, etc. So really making sure that we are providing the brain with what it needs, and you know, with the right conditions, and not sabotaging it, by doing certain things that are interfering it from being well, because ultimately, the body really does want to be well. And I really believe that, right, that whole concept of homeostasis, where everything has to work together just right. And, you know, when when something is, has gone awry in the body, the body really wants to get back to the place of health and healing, we just have to provide the right condition. So I think where I'm going with that is, you know, fuel just making sure as you were saying, Katie, the brain needs the fuel right? The brain needs that protein to make the neurotransmitters which are the chemical messengers that kind of sent the messages between the nerve cells back and forth and also between the nerve cells and the rest of the body, right? I mean, that's how we move our arm or, you know, whatever we do, it comes from that signal. So neurotransmitters, neurotransmitters do that. And they're proteins they're made from proteins or from amino acids, which are the components of protein that we eat so we have to make sure we eat enough of course you know I'm sure there's a lot of talk about protein just from other you know, for maintaining lean muscle mass and for you know, for healthy aging etc. But just on the most basic sort of brain level is we need adequate protein to make sure we can make those neurotransmitters and then things like healthy fats right omega threes everyone is talking about you know, your salmon and sardines and things like that brain is mostly fat, it's you know, 60 65% fat so we have to make sure what that we're getting those omega threes whether from eating those healthy foods or from supplements and a lot of times I mean honestly with my clients it is very difficult with especially with pollution by we're all hearing that fish is kind of contaminated so it's hard to get all the Omega threes that we need from fish. So I do supplement across the board from you know, children to certainly into you know, the older years and you know, with slightly different composition of the DHA and the EPA, which is a to name fatty acids, you know, in the the mega threes. So, that's really you know, that's, that's really kind of a big one, you know, and then of course, everyone Have other vitamins and minerals, which mostly come from all our plant foods. So you kind of need those, you know, you need the protein and fat for those main sort of macronutrients. And then you have to fill in everything else with fruits and vegetables, and, you know, all those all those things that come from, you know, mostly from plant foods. So I think that's really, yes, you know, brain is complicated, you know, feelings, thoughts, etc. But we really need to support the physical health aspect of

Amy: 10:29

it. I was going to ask about, so from a protein standpoint, you mentioned, that's my thing that correctly omega three fats? Yeah, I guess three fats, and what is the best kind of protein? So I just generally speaking, like,

Natasha Coughlin: 10:46

Well, I'm a big proponent of just, you know, variety, I feel like we really need to be a variety of different foods. And, you know, my clients hear me say about, you know, rotation and kind of making sure that you, and I think I know, you guys, you know, this will probably come up in the conversation somewhere, you know, when meal planning are usually planned for a different protein, you know, for dinner every night. So it will be you know, chicken, fish, Turkey, you know, red meat, maybe once a week, something like that. So, Amy, as you were saying, you know, something like chicken breast, yes, it has plenty of protein, it has some other vitamins and minerals, but it may not have the same as, you know, chicken thighs, which is dark meat, you know, we might have something different in that, you know, more collagen, which again, is kind of needed for, you know, immune health, skin health, certainly brain health as well. So I think the best way to go is to vary your sources, and, you know, eat kind of the whole animal. I love roast chicken, like organic roast chicken from Whole Foods, definitely, you know, at least once a week, it's easy. It's somehow it seems inexpensive. Now, actually, when you think about that whole chicken for $12. And like, I can't even buy a pack of organic chicken breasts for $12. Now, so. So yeah, so something like that. And then I would actually use the bones to make stock in my Insta pot. So that's that, then you get the minerals from the bones, and you get the college and all of that, especially as we're going into the winter months, and I do like animal protein, I'm not a, you know, I am sort of an advocate for the plant forward plant heavy kind of style of eating, but I'm, you know, not vegetarian, and I did not, you know, advocate for being, you know, purely plant based, because I think, you know, animal protein is important, it's very biologically kind of active and available to us. So that's, you know, that's kind of what I do. And that's, that's what I would recommend. So really big, you know, varying your sources. And as far as fish, you know, something more fatty like salmon, and especially if it's wild, right, wild caught is better than farmed. And much better, I should say, I wouldn't even do farmed salmon, really. So. But you know, fish can be hard. You know, with the kids, it's hard to kind of get it in all that much. But a couple of times a week is great. And then all the other times it can be you know, other sources? And I certainly do I completely Meatless meals, like a crispy tofu, or something like that as a sort of a once a week option. So I would say that's, that's kind of what I recommend and do with my family. And

Amy: 13:22

yeah, I was gonna say to it's hard to get a lot of protein. If you're more plant forward, I find to get enough protein in if you're not eating fish, or chicken or something else.

Natasha Coughlin: 13:34

Yeah. Right. And that's where that's where I see even kind of circling back to mental health. There's research that suggests that there is more anxiety and depression in vegetarians, because they don't get enough protein. Because a lot of times unless you're working with someone who's really creating a meal plan for you, or even cooking for you, it is difficult to really get everything you need. As a vegetarian and certainly vegan. I mean, being vegan would be really hard to get all the nutrients

Katie Chandler: 14:04

we I've I've tried a vegan diet for a very brief period of time, and I had to work with a nutritionist to try to make sure I was getting everything out. And it was it was not easy. So you you had mentioned your son has autism. And do you imagine apply the same aspects for his diet? As Do you feel that food can help with things like autism, ADHD? Like you said, Yes, you agree to anxiety and depression, everything. So across the

Natasha Coughlin: 14:36

board, I'm shaking my head as you can see, yeah, yes.

Katie Chandler: 14:40

What do you suggest or recommend for parents with children? You know, my daughter has ADHD and we've thought about trying to tweak her diet and everything to improve that. And actually her pediatrician, I was shocked, advised me against it. And let me I'll tell you exactly why he said really so because you The result that it would yield is nominal in comparison to the stress that I would put my child under by like restricting her and things like that, and maybe it would cause food issues. And, and, you know, I mean, I am British is I can understand that but I was a little I was a little surprised by by his stance on that. So what is your opinion?

Natasha Coughlin: 15:24

Well, I think a lot of times, you know, when people don't understand something or don't, you know, don't practice something, they they're much more likely to dismiss it and say this is too. I mean, just a quick example, I went to a talk by a surgeon of gastrointestinal surgeon who was talking about reflux, right, treating reflux. And to me, like, this is something I do every day we do it with diet and certain, you know, lifestyle modifications. Well, this person was saying, okay, medications, then diet, oh, no, no one wants to do that, okay, surgery, we have this really great, you know, and that was sitting there just, you know, in my jaw completely dropped. I was like, really, like, we go to surgery that quickly and completely dismissing what diet can do for something like reflux. So, you know, I'm kind of not surprised. I mean, it's unfortunate, you know, a lot of times people who have gone through medical school, you know, 2025 years ago, they did not get any hours of nutrition instruction, I mean, they kind of do now a little bit like 20 accurate about 20 hours of nutrition and four years in medical school. So that's certainly not something that doctors now but I, again, from my perspective, thinking of, you know, the brain and the body and how they're connected, you know, changing the fuel definitely changes the way the brain works. So, you know, giving it the right fuel and taking away those things that are, you know, we know that there are things that are excitatory for the brain and there are things that are inhibitory for the brain. And all those things come from the food that we eat. So I absolutely believe that you can you know, you can influence the the you can influence behavior through changing the fuel that we take in and how we you know, how we fuel our bodies. So, yeah, just to answer your I guess, the first part of your question, I mean, with my son you know, he eats a very plant heavy diet with you know, organic, grass fed animal protein, lots of fats, you know, coconut oil out like I'm a huge fan of olive oil and mega threes, both fish and supplements. Yeah, so very limited grains very limited processed foods, and that's sort of how he grew up and you were saying, you know, creating issues I have two other kids they you know, they're great eaters, I mean, they they don't have any issues with you know, we don't have soda in the house. So like we don't really have you know, cookies and this and that and that I mean, I do have cookies that you know, I tell my girls like okay, it's every couple of days or you know, don't make it a habit it's not really something that the body needs, you know, the body needs that all the stuff that's in the you know, the vegetable drawer in the fridge, or like in the fruit bowl and the calendar the body needs those and the body doesn't need the you know, the cookies and all the processed stuff but you know, all being said I have a little bit of those of course because sometimes you need convenience. And I don't find that you know, that can create any kind of issues unless you know, you become very restrictive and I think the best way to get kids interested in food is definitely by you know, giving them a chance to cook you know, to cook with you when kind of chop things and I always ask kids what they want you know, even though I really have a plan I mean I meal plan so it's not it's a bit of it, but an illusion, but I still ask them what they chicken or shrimp you know, I have both because I you know, I shopped for, you know, three or four days so, do you think you know eating kind of is close to all you know, the real foods that don't come out of the box is what can ultimately you know, make our behavior better and sort of prevent the you know, prevent the highs and lows and all those things.

Katie Chandler: 19:10

You say this is what the body needs, the body needs this the body doesn't need this it's a great way to say it to your child to better help them understand we need this to grow and to be big and strong. This is not going to do that for us. So I'm gonna have to start using that trick because all my kids went or like salty processed snacks when they ran home from school and I'm trying to like here have the have the fruit and have cheese and or the smoothie and you know, so it's definitely a transition that has to go on in this house.

Amy: 19:42

Yeah, I also think the the food as fuel is a good way to frame it too because they can envision like the fuel in your car or your cell phone fuel battery, like you got to charge up that battery versus like but yeah, I mean, I have teenage boys I mean, I'm not was 13 and almost 16. And it's very difficult to balance like last night for example, I made meatballs out of bison meat, which is good organic, but then I put it on pasta because I'm like, What am I? You know, it's either rice or pasta or like what else do I put it with to make it like a meal. So I always also find it hard to cook especially for boys where like they need like food do like you have to be really really creative. Like I'm like I'm not even sure what else I would give them besides rice or pasta with that even though that's not great, because it's grains.

Natasha Coughlin: 20:32

Right? Well I'm just because you mentioned the balls, what I do in my house for and you said you need volume, great veggies into your meatballs. So especially for something that's a little like dry you're like bison, greats and zucchini, carrots, like finely chopped mushrooms and just mix that with your you know, with your ground beef that actually makes you know makes volume but it just makes that meat so much juicy and make the meatballs or like sometimes it just like shaved them into like burger, you know, burger shapes, you get you get some of the vegetables right in with that. And you know what I do, I usually kind of, you know, I plan for a protein and then two vegetables. So I've been even with something like rice, we've been making a lot of fried rice like a veggie fried rice and I'm not you know, I'm not doing the whole like song and dance with the egg and all the steps. I mean just sotae all the finely chopped veggies. And then you know cooked rice that's a little you know, cooled a little and you just kind of mix it with that. And so you have your veggie rice to serve with the veggie, you know, turkey meatballs, or the veggie bison, bison meatball meatball. So you have, you know, you kind of have the best of both worlds there. And, you know, potatoes, sweet potatoes, like what kinds of roast you know, roasted veggies. I'm a big fan of, and always always something great. Like I tell my kids you know, green beans, broccoli, asparagus, you know, some kind of a green veggie, I have a lot of green beans in my garden right now. So I've been actually it's been super exciting.

Amy: 22:09

That's good. Yeah, my kids do eat green beans. So that's just me serving more.

Katie Chandler: 22:14

Well, this next bit is a little bit personal for me, because it's regarding paleo and you were just the you know, talking about veggie forward and in protein and not a lot of grains and everything. And that's very much a paleo as and I don't know, how you feel about the defined labeled diets as such. But I have just found it's easy for me with my autoimmune conditions to kind of keep inflammation down by following a, you know, like, a paleo heavy diet. And it really does make a massive difference. And it's funny because I go through these phases, when they go, I can eat all the carbs and whatever I want. And it doesn't bother me. And then I sit back and I realize, Oh, of course this is this is why I felt horrible that day, you know, so when I'm better about it, when I'm really diligent, it makes a huge difference. So is is do you do the Paleo diet with your clients? Or how do you feel about it?

Natasha Coughlin: 23:08

I do. I mean, yeah, for autoimmune disease. I mean, there's there's several different things, you know, it's kind of an AIP protocol, right, the autoimmune protocol, which is sort of your paleo but excludes eggs. So there's a little bit of trial and error and all the diets again, like I don't like to sort of subscribe to one thing. Because we again, we understand that grains can be inflammatory, they activate part of the immune system. And anytime there's immune system activation, that's inflammation, right? That's what that's, you know, what can create inflammation. So, with that, certainly with someone who has a diagnosis, definitely, that's for me, that's kind of a low hanging fruit, like, that's what we go with, you know, no grains, no legumes. And, you know, a lot of times we get good results for sure. I mean, sometimes you have to do the no eggs. I usually tried to do some kind of a elimination diet even further, just based on testing of, you know, food sensitivities. But but it definitely, you know, that's that's sort of what's documented. I mean, there isn't that much formal research, but anything that we're kind of seeing out there in literature is pointing out that, you know, Paleo style diet is helpful for autoimmune conditions and can not only treat them but also, you know, reverse them because as you know, conventional medicine doesn't believe in cure for autoimmunity. It's sort of one of those, you know, we're not sure why it happens, you know, your immune system attacks self. I remember I put something I posted something on Instagram about the, you know, the development of autoimmune disease and a lot of people were surprised that, you know, one of the conditions that are necessary for the development of autoimmunity is the leaky gut or the hyper permeability of the digestive tract, which again, to me, no matter what kind of condition a client comes to me with, we always look at Got, except, you know, I think I had one client where she was like, my digestion is great. And, you know, I go, you know, I'm super ideal and I was like, Okay, you're kind of a unicorn. So I am just gonna, you know, do other things. But in most cases, we'll look at gut health. And I really do believe that you know, all disease begins in the gut. So I think paleo diet works for auto immunity, because it is helping to kind of tamper down that inflammation and heal the leaky gut, which is normally the underlying sort of condition of why the autoimmune disease develops.

Amy: 25:34

I have a question about AI, get migraines, but vestibular migraines, and I'm wondering if any foods would be helpful for that? Because I don't know if that's related to the gut at all, or if it's more, I mean, it's more nerve related, I guess, but I'm just curious on your thoughts around something like that, like headaches, migraines, vestibular dizziness, vertigo type things?

Natasha Coughlin: 26:03

Yeah. Yes, headaches and migraines are kind of, you know, they're tricky because they seem so kind of removed from they certainly seem removed from the gut, right? That's kind of like what we call extra intestinal symptoms of something that might be going on in the gut. So I would I definitely look at gut health with anybody with headaches and migraines. And just just a couple of days ago, actually, I have a client with migraines, like three times a week, you know, debilitating. We've been working together for several months. And it was mostly on kind of taking things out of her diet, you know, really I mean, she's, she's sort of playing the detective and, and making sense of things for her, you know, scientifically. So we've been taking things out and you know, we started with any sources of glutamate, which is an excess, sort of, it's an amino acid that's excitatory. So a lot of times people with migraines and you know, migraine headaches are sensitive to glutamate in the diet. So MSG, certainly like you know, and Chinese food, processed foods, those would be an issue. A lot of some mushrooms a heightened glutamate walnuts behind glutamate, there's some you know, there's some foods that are high and glutamate that we kind of started to, you know, take out one by one that helped that sort of went down to, you know, one migraine every seven days. And then we started working on histamine, which again, is is you know, as an immune system reaction, right. And it's something that is also related to leaky gut. Interestingly enough, histamine sensitivity usually results when someone has that hyper permeability of their, you know, in the digestive tract lining. So we started working on, you know, reduction of histamine. And, you know, last I spoke with her, she said, 19 days without a migraine, so that was like, yeah, so food, I mean, food is, food is magic. A friend of mine was saying that the other day, you know, food is magic. We really, you know, when we change, how we fuel our body, we can really see the difference. One of the things like, you know, for instance, like ketogenic diet is a treatment for epilepsy, because again, brain is so receptive to changes in the fuel, right? You go from glucose to fats, all the sudden the whole kind of neurotransmission changes. So that's, you know, headaches and migraines. Definitely. I mean, they're, you know, they vary again, you were saying might be something more structural. I don't know if you've had, you know, scans to kind of see exactly what's Yeah, what's going on. But

Amy: 28:39

interesting, though, no one actually, this is years ago, when I went through the journey of like, figuring out all this stuff. No one talks about the guy ever, but uh, you know, I got scans, I did this test that test, blah, blah, blah. But I never did anything with the guy, which is interesting. No one ever talks about my diet now that I'm thinking about it. I changed my diet myself. Yeah, but no one really talks about it, which is actually interesting. And I was going to ask you about the histamine thing that you mentioned, what does that mean? Like what kind of foods have histamines in them?

Natasha Coughlin: 29:06

I mean, is something that we produce and need and we get from the foods, but some people just don't kind of lack the enzyme and sometimes, you know, sometimes it's genetically the genetic predisposition, predisposition or that leaky you know, there's the whole leaky gut condition but histamine is like an leftovers for instance, when you keep your especially animal protein leftovers histamine content builds up you know, seafood like you know, shrimp assign histamine bone broth, interestingly enough, you know, lead to healthy food, but a tiny histamine. So, yeah, there's, there's kind of a whole, you know, group of foods that are that are high and those, you know, they may be a problem for people who do not have enough of the histamine breaking enzyme that for example, if you've ever had your 23andme or ancestry done, it actually has your entire genome. So this is something that can be run through like a platform, and they can decode everything that has to do with your health that like 23andme doesn't give you and they actually look at the at the enzyme to which one is the it's a D. So it's the enzyme is called da l. But how do you get that tested? So 20? You say I can do it through 2323? And me? Yeah. And then they give you just defy like, the cola raw data file. Yeah. And then you can send it to me, and I would run it through this professional plateau. Interesting, and kind of

Katie Chandler: 30:34

that's very cool. Does it show you also if you heard is that the mother gene? How do you say it? I'm saying it wrong? It's Oh, they empty? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. See, they're not?

Natasha Coughlin: 30:45

Yeah, well, they'd have I mean, we have, you know, 24,000 genes. This particular one, of course, you already have the raw data from 23. And me, and then the, you know, AI just scans it for any genes that are pertinent to nutrition exercise, you know, anything that's actionable, right? Because 23andme gives you silly stuff like is your ear lobe attached to detached? And I'm like, Well, mine is detached and I can see it and it kind of doesn't really give me anything. But if I see that, you know, I have a mutation and my vitamin D receptor, and my vitamin D just never budges you know, now I know now I know I need to be taking you know, twice as much or three times as much of my vitamin D supplement as I normally do to kind of move the needle on that. That's interesting.

Katie Chandler: 31:35

We hope you liked this episode with Natasha Coghlan. Stay tuned for part two, where we talk about gut health and much much more.

Amy: 31:44

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 72 - How To Get That Hollywood A Lister Smile With Celebrity Dentist, Dr. Jon Marashi (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 72.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie and we are here today with Dr. John Marashi who is a cosmetic dentist to the stars. He is also known as the Tom Ford of cosmetic dentistry. And He's based in Los Angeles and we're so excited to talk to him today about all things teeth, dentistry, cosmetic etc. We haven't had any dentists on the show. And so this is a topic that certainly lends itself to your well being because like your mouth and your teeth, if they are not in shape, I just feel like the rest of your body is not so we're super excited to have you on the phone, Dr. Marashi he is. You know, as I said before, celebrity dentists, it seems like you see every celebrity in Hollywood every a Lister, I will go down the list, but super excited to hear all that you have to say. And I also saw that you in your personal life love skateboarding, so I want to hear about that, because that probably lends itself to a lot of teeth damage. But anyway, we'll get into all the things and hear about all your innovations and all your leadership and in the space that you're in. But welcome to the show, Dr. Marashi so glad that you are with us today.

Dr. Marashi: 1:39

Thank you for having me this morning. I appreciate it. Absolutely. So

Amy: 1:43

before we get into some topics, we always like to take a step back and do our nirvana of the week. And so this is just a time we like to talk about something that gave us a spark of joy, something little something big, just something that brought us some joy this week, as we all are getting into, you know, the crazy times of September so I'll hand it to you Katie to give your Nirvana Yeah,

Katie: 2:04

Thanks, Amy. I think mine was just a couple days ago my kids went back to school so they are now both in the same elementary school. I have a nine year old and a four year old doctor, Marathi two girls. And they you know, as a stay at home mom for the last 10 years. You kind of anticipate that day when they're both in all day elementary school together in the same place safe, happy, healthy, and it happened on Tuesday. And it was bittersweet, but it was it was it was definitely a nirvana. I think the real Nirvana moment was picking them up from school that day and seeing how excited and happy they were. So it was it was great. Oh

Amy: 2:38

my god, what am I Yeah,

Katie: 2:39

it definitely was a big one. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:41

huge congrats on that. I remember those days and it's such a milestone. My doctor Marashi I have a 15, almost 16 year old and a 12, almost 13 year old two boys and they start high school. Well, not they don't start high school. They start back at high school and middle school next week. So that'll be good. But I would say my Nirvana this week. It does relate to my kids. We had a really nice kind of impromptu dinner the other night together at home, which we haven't had. They were away this summer at sleepaway camp and we've been traveling and doing different things. We haven't really had a family like just us for casual dinner. So we just had a pop up dinner and shared some fun stories. And it was just one of those like, just cool dinners where the kids were actually expressive and talking and telling us funny things. And we were telling them funny things. It was just like a good bonding moment. So I really cherish those, especially as the boys are getting older and they're, you know, into their friends and not really asked so that was that that gave me some joy this week. What about you Dr. Marashi?

Dr. Marashi: 3:39

Well, I'm gonna have to stay on point with what you guys have been saying. And Katie, like you, I have two girls as well. I have a nine year old and 14 year old. And, and thank thank the stars that they're back in school now. My wife and I were like, get out the door, get back to school, get on a schedule, and give us some peace and and a structured schedule. So it's, it's, you know, that last week of summer is tough because there's no more camps and there's just you know, kind of like, lethargy and mom on board and all that. So we're, we're just happy as could be to, to get the wild animals back into the zoo. Yeah,

Amy: 4:16

yeah. I'm Tuesday can't come soon enough.

Katie: 4:21

Nice. All right. Well, let's get right into it. Because we have a lot of questions for you. I think if we start with the basics, it would be a good way to kind of get in there. So what are some simple, easy things that we can all do at home to keep our smiles our mouths our teeth healthy? What do you tell your patients?

Dr. Marashi: 4:39

You know, it starts with the time tested basics. There's two things it's not a sexy recipe, right here it is. Your brush them and you've lost them. I know everyone's like, wow, that's it. That's all I gotta do. But that's all it is, is you gotta keep them clean.

Katie: 4:58

Yeah. And do you recommend I I find myself brushing my teeth, like multiple after every meal and sometimes after snacks, but it wasn't always like that, do you recommend to your patients to do, obviously, at least twice a day? But do you ever say more?

Dr. Marashi: 5:11

No. And generally I don't. And I'll tell you why I do take a pragmatic approach to dentistry. And, you know, you'll hear things all over the map, like, you know, like brush and floss every time you eat, and so forth. And, you know, the reality is, is that the time that's the most important for brushing and flossing, is that the end of the day, and the reason is, is because you're done eating. And now you're gonna go to bed and your mouth is dormant, and you're laying on your back. And so what happens is, you're producing less saliva in your mouth, and the whole function of saliva is two things, it's to aid with digestion, so you can swallow your food, and it's to bathe and rinse your teeth. And saliva has protective enzymes in it that actually kill certain bacterias that are harmful for your teeth and for your gums. So if you have a bunch of food and junk and crud stuck in between your teeth, and on the surface is there's other bacterias in the mouth that are like feeding frenzy time, and they go to work on that food. And the byproduct that they secrete are all different types of you know, acids and biofilms and so forth, that create problems in your mouth. So when your mouth is the least effective at protecting itself, that's the time when you need it to be its cleanest. And so, Western diets you know, we eat a lot of you know, carbs and junks and sugars and so forth. So obviously, the cleaner you keep it, the better it is. And so, you know, people have kind of fallen into a rhythm of do it in the morning after you eat breakfast. Not before you eat breakfast, otherwise, you're just polluting the system again, and then doing it again at the end of the day.

Katie: 6:43

Yeah, that makes sense. What is so tell us what's the deal with mouthwash? I know it's a silly question. But I've just been asked to mention it is it is it fresh breath is it is it for the teeth, the gums.

Dr. Marashi: 6:54

So mouthwash now has become a little bit of a jack of all trades. But let me tell you where the confusion lies. Many people think that it is a replacement for brushing and poor flossing. And it's not. It's an adjunct to it. So it's a bonus. But it's not meant to replace either. So you know, it's better than doing nothing, but it's never going to be as effective. And, you know, when you're rinsing with it, and swishing in between the teeth, you know, it can help massage the gums and get in some of the crevices. Sometimes we're you know, just simply by that, it's almost like pressure washing your driveway with the garden hose, right. So you get a little bit of force in there. And you can get sometimes some of the residues that that that brushing and flossing might have missed, but it's not designed to replace it. And it's not something that's necessary for most people because brushing and flossing is actually that effective that if done properly. You don't need to have a mouth rinse. But there's certainly you know, as long as you're using a good quality mouthwash, and what that means is you want one that doesn't have preservatives and you don't want one that's like, you know, written with alcohol in it, then, you know, it's it's it can help but it's certainly not going to hurt in any capacity.

Katie: 8:07

Okay.

Amy: 8:08

And what do you what do you think about tongue scrapers? Because I do like you know, brush, floss, tongue, tongue scrape and then do the mouthwash. But like, what do you think about that?

Dr. Marashi: 8:18

Yeah, so tongue scrapers are great for people that have a tendency to get built up on their tongue. And that's not everybody. And you know, how would you know, stick your tongue out and look at it. So, you know, jokingly, when I see patients, I you know, and I'm doing their checkup, and I look at their tongue and if it's brown on the top, I'll say get your Panama mirror and say stick your tongue out. I'll say you have a condition called Starbucks. And you know, coffee and tea, you know, puts residue on the back. So tongue scrapers do a wonderful job of just you know, it's like a rake, right? You know, you're just scraping off that residue that because you're not even brushing your tongue is not near as effective as a tongue scraper.

Katie: 8:55

Okay? I use hydrogen peroxide to rinse. I don't know if that's good or bad. That's my mouthwash. Is that like, I'm afraid you're gonna say stop, stop,

Dr. Marashi: 9:04

stop use it straight or do I use it straight?

Katie: 9:07

Is that wrong?

Dr. Marashi: 9:10

Like how much just like a capsule

Katie: 9:11

just a little bit?

Dr. Marashi: 9:13

Yeah, I mean, most people you know, I'll tell them if they want to use peroxide. Just dilute it. You know, like if you have like a one ounce glass of water, you know, like a shot glass size, just you know, just a splash of peroxide in there. So it foams and fuzz and fizzes a little

Katie: 9:25

bit. Alright, that's my new trick.

Amy: 9:29

It does that help whiten your teeth.

Dr. Marashi: 9:31

It can so you know peroxides and gels and so forth. You know how they work is twofold. You know, there's what's called external staining on teeth and internal staining. External staining is coffee, tea, red wine, you know, the surface level discolorations on the teeth, and there's only so much that brushing can do to actually lift that off and that's why if you're a nose like when you go and you get your teeth cleaned in the dental office by the dental hygienist why they look so much whiter When it's all done, because there's been a much deeper like scrubbing actually almost kind of like cleaning your shower tiles, right, you know, and it lifts out a little bit of the external staining. And so you know, peroxide with the fuzzy with the foamy and the fizzing action can actually help break up some of those stains on there. So that's why you'll see like, you know, certain whitening toothpaste that have a peroxide in it. And basically, that's what it's doing. However, the real discoloration on teeth is from what's called internal staining. And as we all get older, the core of the tooth which it's called dentin, this is the layer that's below your tooth enamel. So enamel just for listeners, that's the hard white stuff. That's the protective surface, that's the stuff that you see. So if you think of enamel as like wearing a white button down shirt, and think of your dentin as your undershirt, so if you are wearing a white t shirt underneath your your white button down, everything looks white, but if you have like a dark brown t shirt under that white button down, now it the color shows through, you know what's going on underneath and that and your white button down doesn't look so white anymore, it looks you know, it's got a brown tinge to it. That's how teeth work. And the color of your T shirt underneath gets darker over time. So the so when you get your teeth whitened professionally or you wear these trays that have peroxide gel, what happens is the peroxide now soaks through your buttoned down shirt, your tooth enamel into the core of the tooth, the dentin, which is your brown t shirt, and essentially bleaches out the color. So it's going to try to turn that brown t shirt white. So the overall result is a wider look into

Katie: 11:39

Okay, so but now rinsing with hydrogen peroxide, not necessarily going to give us the same effect.

Dr. Marashi: 11:46

No, that's not going to get that that that'll help mildly with the external staining, but it'll never help with the internal staining on it just because it hasn't sat on the tooth long enough and it doesn't have the penance.

Katie: 11:57

Okay, that's good to know. So

Amy: 11:59

before we get into some of the more cosmetic questions, just a quick question on the teeth whitening. Is there any at home teeth whitening methods that you think are just as effective as doing it in the office? Like to get to that dentin? I love that example you gave? It's really helpful.

Dr. Marashi: 12:17

So the answer to that is yes and no. Because most people want it done immediately. So comparing an at home system to when you go to a dentist office that can be done in about 90 minutes, there's nothing over the counter that's going to do that do that amount of whitening in that short amount of time. And and the reason why the at home systems are not able to is just simply by regulation, you know, they're not safe for someone to toy around with on their own. So they have to give you a solution of the peroxide gel that severely diluted. So in order to make up for the lack of concentration on it, like the strength of it, you have to do it every day for you know, sometimes two weeks or more consistently, in order to get the compounding effect, you know that you're able to get in one fell swoop in the dentist's office. So for some people that actually works out better, because it can be more cost effective. Or maybe they have really sensitive teeth. So they actually need to have a more dilute solution to keep them from being sensitive. Okay.

Amy: 13:17

And are there any brands that you would recommend for our listeners that they could try at home that you really like?

Dr. Marashi: 13:24

Yeah, so for at home systems, you know, the playing field has increased greatly. I mean, there's a lot of good brands that have come to market. You know, probably the standard bearer of the industry has been Crest White Strips, you know, those work pretty good. And the thing is, is that these things are so inexpensive that even if you don't get a great result, you're not going to feel like if you had to sell your kidney and then you flush a bunch of toilet. There's also a system called Snow and and they do a really great job and there they have a tray and like a little light that activates the gel. That's a pretty popular one, another one by by a company called bite the YTE. And just disclaimer, I used to be affiliated with them. I'm no longer but but just for disclosure purposes. And they have a protocol right bite which is pretty good as well. It's a foamy gel that goes on the teeth.

Katie: 14:16

Okay, okay, that's great. All right. So what are the top treatments that you're doing? I mean, I would imagine veneers. I am like very passionate about someday getting veneers. I would think in LA you probably do it quite a bit.

Amy: 14:31

I've had many conversations with Katie about this. I want to hear about it.

Dr. Marashi: 14:35

So there's no question I mean across the entire profession of cosmetic dentistry that porcelain veneers, porcelain laminate veneers are the number one requested procedure and what is so fantastic about them is it is a very conservative approach to having a topical application. A little thin sliver of porcelain bonded to the front of your your to where now you can have complete control over the shape, the size, the color, and the layout of your smile. So you can take someone who has discolored teeth, slightly crooked teeth, teeth that are chipped that are cracked or just, you know, sometimes we have people that have already had braces and their teeth are straight, but they're not beautiful teeth. And so you can not only give them a beautiful smile, but you can actually improve the structure and the durability of the tooth all at the same time.

Katie: 15:34

Do you find that also, some people just have the wrong size teeth for their mouth? Or maybe their teeth doesn't fill out their smile all the way. I mean, I've seen these transformations on celebrities and before and afters and it like it takes 20 years off when you have a brand new smile with veneers, right?

Dr. Marashi: 15:50

Yes. So there's a relationship between the size of your teeth and the size of your face. And you know, when any elective cosmetic procedure is done, you know, be it teeth, it dermatology, be it plastic surgery doesn't matter. If it is done proportionately and tastefully, what happens is the person just looks like a better version of themselves. That should not be a standalone feature where you know, there's a big difference between you walking up to someone who actually knows you quite well. And they're like, Wow, you look fantastic. Versus Wow, you got big, white, and two totally different responses. And so I have always felt that your smile, you know, whether it's what Mother Nature gave you or something you have assistance from me with, it still looks like something that you were born.

Katie: 16:39

How do you? How do you know that a dentist is as good at shaping the teeth for those exact reasons that you just said? Because I mean, we've all seen where it looks like someone just has a mouth of white Chiclets. And it's very

Dr. Marashi: 16:55

obvious the thing is, you're that's one of the most important questions that your listeners should be asking if they're considering cosmetic dentistry procedure. So here's how you figure it out. First and foremost, you need to ask your dentist to show you before and after pictures of their work can't be stock photos, you have to show me examples of your work of cases that you've done. So they can get kind of an idea of the level of quality and the level of artistry that that dentist delivers. Because a little bit different for everyone, you know, you know, some people like this, some people like that, so the patient has to see what this dentist is capable, then they should be specifically asking, show me examples of cases that you have done, that have my pre existing condition that are yielding the outcome that I'm going for. And so if the dentist cannot show that to the person, they probably haven't done enough of those types of cases. Because, you know, we all document with the before and afters and you know, I've gotten a library myself of, you know, like 1000s of smiles from over the years. And, you know, I can guarantee I can show you a little bit of everything along the way. But if I were a patient, no matter how much I liked the dentist, if they said don't worry about it, it'll your it'll be okay, fine. That's a big red flag right there. Because now you're rolling the dice. And when you do these procedures, once you start, it's a one way street. So you know, there's no going back and how I know this is half of the dentistry that I do in my practice is revision cosmetic dentistry. So what that means is, someone went somewhere else, whether it was years ago, or literally a week ago, and they got How do you say this humbly, or Respectfully, an unintended result. And they've so I'm the FIX IT guy. And so now, you know, as twice as much work to you know, to do a revision case than an original. So I see this thing all the time. And it's really unfortunate that someone put their their faith and their trust, and the process didn't go the way that they were hoping it to go, right.

Katie: 19:09

And there's also all of these different. I've seen online and who knows if dentists actually use this, but like the different types of shape they have these names like the Hollywood and all that, do you know what I'm referring to? Yeah,

Dr. Marashi: 19:21

that's all arbitrary stuff. And marketing.

Katie: 19:23

Don't pay any attention

Dr. Marashi: 19:26

to it. Yeah. And I don't, I don't work, you know, they simply serve as guides for patients to kind of get an idea of what things could be or what's out there. So, you know, they they serve a little bit of purpose. But the problem is this is that if you equated this to fashion, it's like buying off the rack instead of getting something that's fully bespoke.

Amy: 19:50

That's a great analogy. Yeah. Which is so important. I mean, it is an art what you do because to make it look natural, and to make it feel like you just look like a better version of yourself. versus to Katie's point of like some crazy smile. It's, you know, you do have to be very, very careful who you're going to Yeah, I didn't really know about veneers until I saw like Kyle Richards get that big transformation a few years ago, from Housewives of Beverly Hills, because I never even noticed her teeth before. And then she had this whole, I don't know, revision down on her teeth. And I was like, wow, that it makes such a big difference, and probably, to Katie's point took like 20 years off of her age. So it's just such a cool procedure. I did have a question about the teeth underneath, like, do your teeth have to be straight to get veneers or like, even if they're crooked? Can you get them in? Is that bad? Like, what happens to the teeth underneath?

Dr. Marashi: 20:41

Yeah, that's a great question. So in a perfect world, the teeth are already straight to begin with. And the advantage of starting with them when they're already straight, is that the application process of the veneer to the tooth is just incredibly conservative, which means that it can just be directly adhered to the tooth, or the modification to the tooth surface is next to nothing. So that that is the best and the ideal way of doing it. You can you can do veneer cases with mild to moderately crooked teeth, depending on on, you know how and where they are in the mouth. And you're going to require a little more tooth modification. Now, let me let me be really in depth on what tooth modification means. In order to get the veneer on the tooth of the tooth in the wrong spot, you've essentially got to shave part of the tooth to make room for the porcelain to adhere. So think of it like this. If you got a tooth that sticking out, that's buck, and you put something on top of it now it's even more buck, do you follow on? Right? So how do you compensate for that, if the tooth has to come back in a little bit, you got to shave a little bit off the front of the tooth. So when you put the put the new front on the tooth, it's it's sticking its its position is in the correct position, it's not sticking out too far. So so the farther something sticks out, the more you got to grind away to get the so when you add to it, it's not out too far. I don't know if that's making sense what I'm describing. So, you know, I'll always advise patients say, hey, look, you know, if, if, if your teeth are sticking out a little too far, you know, maybe we do a very, you know, short course of orthodontics, or Invisalign, or something for like two months or three months. I mean, like, like anybody can put up with anything for two or three months, it's not a big deal to set it up, and then you're far more conservative with the teeth. But most of the time, you know, like if the teeth are just mildly crooked on the bottom or a little bit on the top, you can veneer the teeth with without really having any significant consequence to it and do it safely and predictably. Nice. Yeah,

Katie: 22:46

I'm sure it's much easier. Okay. Well, I want to know, are there any other like top of the line innovative treatments that you're doing? Or what are these fabulous celebrities that are coming to you for what are they doing?

Dr. Marashi: 22:56

So you know, it's a combination, you know, veneers. First and foremost, you know, we've already talked about that. And, you know, and how that relates to celebrities is, you know, these are people where their appearance, you know, and their livelihood or directly, you know, it's it's tied to the work. There's no question about that the number one request that I'm getting from celebrities, regardless of what procedure that we're doing, is to make it look incredibly natural. Cosmetic Dentistry ran enthusiastically in the wrong direction for years with these silly big, oversized white choppers. And everybody's seen it. And you know, we all know the jokes about coarse teeth and so forth. And that's never sat well with me. And I think one of the reasons why I've been so blessed to have such a tremendous loyal following from people in Hollywood, is my dentistry looks incredibly natural, people don't know. And that's really how people want to look, you know, it's just people look great. So moving outside the realm of veneers, teeth whitening obviously comes into play because people want to have a nice color. So this would be for people who don't have veneers. And then the third treatment, which has really skyrocketed in demand and use is what are called clear aligners. Now, you guys have probably heard of something called Invisalign before they're like clear braces, and for years in dentistry, you know, like, like, that was a great alternative to getting metal braces. And you know, you'd go to your dentist or orthodontist and get these things. But what has totally transformed that particular treatment modality is that it can be done remotely now and it can be done direct to consumer while still being dentist supervised. Now, I got a full disclaimer because I was part of a company that that built and developed one of these so I'll give a shameless plug even though I don't work for him anymore. But my company byte B yt e, has become one of the juggernauts in the industry and during the pandemic Neck, it was absolutely insane what happened, because think about it, we're all sitting at home. And now when you're having a conversation with someone, instead of just looking at your friend, you're stuck looking at yourself on the zoom camera, right? We're like, holy cow, look at my teeth. What am I going to do about this, but they couldn't go see their dentist. So having a direct to consumer solution that was dentists supervise, where people now could actually get access, you know, remotely, and have these trays sent to them, where they could move their teeth, and do it from the comfort of their own home has totally changed the game. And, you know, our company was acquired by DENTSPLY Sirona, which is like the juggernaut of the of the dental space, like they make everything from like bonding materials, to the dental chairs, and all that stuff. They have like a $12 billion market cap, and they bought our company for a billion dollar congrats. And so would that be Wow. So if that tells you about the Marketplace demand for this treatment, and it's made it now, because it's done remotely. You know, like, if you're a celebrity, you don't have to be stuck in Los Angeles to go back to your dentist to do this, you can be on location or on the other side of the world, and still have access to, you know, to your trays and the aligners and just and so it's created mobility for people to go out and do this. And this is a one way street. And you know, technology is the large part that's responsible for it. And there's some other players in this space as well, I won't shamelessly plug them. But you know, coming back full circle hairs that the demand for clear aligners has really skyrocketed, and it's just, it's cost effective. It's it does a great job with the teeth, and they've even structured these things that you can whiten your teeth while you're wearing up. So you kind of get a bit of a twofer.

Katie: 26:51

That's nice.

Amy: 26:52

And are those what are the aligners? Are they trays their tray? And do you wear them? Like how long do you wear them for a day? Or does it depend on the case or

Dr. Marashi: 27:00

Well, yeah, it depends on the case. But you know, like, I'll go back to bite again. But so for regular clear aligner therapy, you wear them around the clock. And because if they're not in your mouth, they're not moving the teeth plain and simple. But they also have an at night only solution. So you need to wear it, you know, about eight to 10 hours a day. And how that works compared to the conventional approach is that the material is up the train material itself is a lot thicker. So if if either you had braces as a high school kid, or in middle school, you remember when you got your braces tightened, and you're just like, oh, there it is. And you know, you felt like you know all that pressure, you know, torquing on the teeth, because that's what's causing the tooth movement. So imagine, you know, a thicker and tighter fitting tray that says, Alright, it's time to get to work fellas, and you know, it's really putting pressure on the teeth to move them. So so it does more in less time. Now, that the secret weapon that the clear aligner treatments have or at least with bite is, there is a sonic mouthpiece that you use five minutes a day, and you actually bite your teeth on top of it. It's called a hyper bite. And what it does is it vibrates the teeth at an ultrasonic speed. So you know, it doesn't hurt or anything like that. But the vibration movements actually stimulates bone remodeling in the jaw, so it can move the tooth roots through the bone faster and more comfortably. And so that's a little game changer as well. And as a result, you have less of the squeezing or torquing sensation that sometimes you'll say, Oh yeah, my teeth hurt because I got my braces tightened, and it moves it you know, upwards at twice the speed. That's amazing.

Amy: 28:41

You know that that whole technology is pretty incredible. Because I've known a lot of like women and men as they get older, it seems like even though they had braces when they were younger, they're getting braces as adults, or Invisalign. But I always see people with Invisalign seemed like such a pain because if there's things on their teeth, and they're always taking on and off the trays, but I never knew this technology was so big or really knew that it existed. So that is such a good opportunity for people who don't have time who like can't go back and forth to the dentist, but can get that taken care of. And either were used to like at night or during the day and like kind of at their own. It just seems like so much more streamlined. And that's that's a great solution.

Dr. Marashi: 29:18

It is and you know what the best part about it is is and this is why you know, I I decided to get involved with this company. I was part of the founding team. The problem that I was looking to solve in dentistry was this. It's like look, you know, I've been blessed in my career right because I get to be Doctor fancy pants, but no matter how you slice it and dice it dentistry is expensive. And on top of it, you know, it does take work to come and see me or see or like like how do you go and see a dentist at noon on a Wednesday. I mean, you know, we're all working right? So you got to miss work and then you got to commute there and you got to commute back and it's time and time is very valuable to everyone. So I had thought to myself like gosh could there'll be a quality dental product or service that could be cost effective, and eliminate the accessibility issue and create, you know, more time convenience for people that could be done at scale. And that was, you know, that's where my head was on this, like, how could we do something like this? And so, you know, it was really just about trying to try to solve a problem. And then, you know, it ended up becoming, you know, this massive success. And I, you know, I'm really proud of what was done because you think about it like orthodontics and clear aligners should not be, you know, only available for, you know, for, for rich people, you know, why, why couldn't it be done at at a, at a price point where more people can have access to care. And I think that that's a really big important thing. And, and, you know, the clear aligner market with DTC and especially with what bite did, they shattered that, that you know, that that glass ceiling and lowered the barrier for entry for, you know, for literally millions of people, that's fantastic. So let's

Amy: 31:05

move into your life and how you incorporate well being because as I was saying earlier, it sounds like you really integrate play into your life. And one of the things I read was that you feed your inner child and soul through skateboarding, which is your true passion. So I'd love to hear about that, because that just seems so counter to what I would think so

Dr. Marashi: 31:27

it is, it's like my Clark Kent, Superman alter ego. And, you know, I would start by saying this, you know, my whole life, there's only two things I ever wanted to do. And it was going to be a dentist, or professional skateboarder. That's it, and the way that the cards fell, you know, it probably worked out for the better that I ended up becoming, you know, professional dentist and amateur skateboarder, the other way around. But, you know, I started skateboarding when I was 12 years old. And, you know, once I set set foot on that board, you know, here it is, you know, I'm 48, now, almost 49. So it's, you know, 3637 years later, and I'm still skateboarding, you know, I, I stepped on it, and I never stepped off. And it's been, you know, for me, it represents so many things, you know, it's fun, it's freedom, it's creativity, and there's no rules to it, you know, and it doesn't matter. If you're young, if you're old, if you're male, if you're female, if you're rich or poor, you just step on this thing, and you just do what you want. And it's a great count, it ended up being an incredible counterbalance for dentistry, because dentistry, there's a lot of rules that you follow, and it's very disciplined. And, you know, what I would say is like, the one freedom you have in dentistry is in the artistic expression, which I that's my favorite part of it. But if you're not following the rules, and you're not disciplined with the technique and the science behind it, you know, you're not going to be a very good dentist. So I feel like they, they really counterbalance one another. And that's why it's always confused me why a dentist would want to play golf, because golf is good, more dentistry? Like, you know, when I walk away from the office, I mean, something that's, you know, that's the opposite of it. And yeah, no, I didn't, you know, if you would have told me when I was like, say, 14, hey, you know, you're gonna be like, almost middle age, and still skateboarding. And I don't know, if I would have thought that that was even possible. But, you know, you know, now we're all getting older. And actually, last Friday, I was with Tony Hawk at this event in Salt Lake City. And, and I'm on his board of advocates for the skate park project, and we help get skate parks built, you know, globally, we've done over 400 and, and a lot of them are based in communities that are underserved. Some of them have higher concentrations of at risk youth. So, you know, it puts something in the community for for kids to go to and have a positive outlet. And, and it's really just, you know, a very positive open source community, you know, for, for people that have to go and skate. And so it's been, you know, a real dream, like, you know, here it is, all these years later. And, and, you know, and how all this stuff came to fruition for me was through dentistry, which I never would have imagined in a million.

Katie: 34:08

That's amazing. That's really cool. My husband, which is Amy's brother, is he was a skater when he was in high school, but he did at some point stop and he can't go back because he's for sure lost his skateboarding skill. He's your age. And I'm afraid if he got on there, he would definitely be going to the dentist with broken teeth, but He idolizes Tony Hawk as well. So that's, that's very, very cool that you work with them?

Dr. Marashi: 34:30

Well, there is a saying there's a famous skateboarder from the 70s as part of the Dogtown crew, and he goes, and he says, You didn't get old and quit skateboarding, you quit skateboarding and got old and I think it's, you know, part of that they use it or lose it and outright.

Amy: 34:47

It's so true. It's so true. So how are you balancing all of your incredible work and family and pastimes like the smile on your face? How do you do it all? Which akitas key success?

Dr. Marashi: 35:02

It's a great question. And if I had to use one word, it's or maybe two words, it's really about, it's about understanding your priorities and being disciplined. And, you know, there's not that it's not easy. And, you know, as I've gotten older, what I've learned is that you have to really understand, you know, what's important to you. And you have to have the ability to say no to a lot of things. Because if you say yes to too many things, now, what you've done is you've diluted yourself, and you're not going to get done the things that are most important to you, you know, as, over time, it is really sort of pared down, you know, like, I have my work, obviously. And, you know, like, you know, Monday through Friday, I'm sitting at home at my dinner table with my

family at 6: 35:46

30pm. And before we start eating, we go around the table, and everyone takes a turn says what the best part of their day was, and that's how it's time to reconnect and understand, you know, like, what was going on and so forth. And, and that's really meaningful for me. And, you know, my health is really important to me as well, you know, like, I sleep track, and, you know, I make sure that I get at least my seven and a half hours, and, you know, I, you know, I rarely drink and I eat a clean diet. And, you know, like skateboarding, I try to put it in at the times where, you know, either maybe the kids are an act or an activity or, you know, like, I can't go to the skate park all the time, I convinced my wife to let me put a halfpipe in the backyard. And that's, that's a whole nother conversation. But I can go out in the backyard and skate. So you know, it's really just about trying to design your life around the things that are the most important to you, and focus on those things, focus on fewer things better. And I think you know, you, you certainly get a lot more enjoyment and fulfillment out of

Katie: 36:47

it. Yeah, that's very well said.

Amy: 36:48

Yeah. That's a very good reminder. Absolutely.

Katie: 36:52

Well, lastly, how can our listeners find you so we know you're, you're in the LA area?

Dr. Marashi: 36:58

Well, the best is probably through Instagram, for sure. And you know, my handle is at Dr. John Marashi. Dr. J, O N. Ma ra Shi Great.

Amy: 37:10

before we, before we close out, we want to go through our quick wrap session with you to get your quick responses to the following questions. You ready? Let's do it. Okay, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Sleep? Make sense? Okay. Five minute flow, which is what we like to call and this is probably more straightforward for you. But you can man, this the women we have on our show, but we'll ask you anyway. So you just got out of the shower. Or let's say you're going out on a Saturday night, you just got out of the shower dried off. Uber just alerted you, they're five minutes away. How do you get ready? What do you put on your face? What do you like? How do you get ready to get out the door. In that car on time, you know, I

Dr. Marashi: 37:55

put a little facial moisturizer on. Yeah, I've had a little too much sun damage over the years. So I do like, you know, my skin, my skincare routine is very minimal. But you know, I do like putting a little moisturizer on. And honestly, like, I even wear my hair shorter this days, you know, and just put, you know, a little bit of kind of, you know, like pomade in it, and you know, it can air dry quickly. And the other thing I've learned too, and it's funny because I'm a guy who really likes fashion. But even my wardrobe is a little more muted. And what I've learned is like, like, you know, a pair of dark denim jeans and a black T shirt, you know, with with you know, with like a cool jacket, you can like you can get you can almost fit in in any social setting with that. So totally, it's quick and easy and out the door.

Amy: 38:38

Nice. And how do you maintain your daily nirvana.

Dr. Marashi: 38:41

You know what it is, when I drive to work in the morning, I do what's called priming and you know, priming is sort of my, my, you know, my, my meditation or, you know, sort of my positive affirmations. And I'll share with what it is it goes, you know, the purpose of my life is to be the smile maker, enjoy the gift of my family, and give love and gratitude to myself and others. And I repeat that over and over. And you know, I've been doing it for years and it really sets my tone you know, it helps me understand my purpose is you know, is to give people smiles and in turn, it gives them confidence. And, you know, my family is so dang important to me. And it's also reminding me like, Hey, don't be hard on yourself and beak and and just be mindful, you know of what's going on in other people's lives. That's

Katie: 39:30

really beautiful. I love that. I

Amy: 39:32

love that. That's great. And you I need to create that for

Katie: 39:35

myself framing. It's your it's your priming moment. Yeah, it's

Dr. Marashi: 39:39

something that I learned from I've done a lot of courses but Tony Robbins and that's, you know,

Katie: 39:43

been a big inspiration. That's amazing. Yeah. All right. Well, thank

Amy: 39:47

you very much. It's been so nice. Yeah, this has been so enlightening. And I just love that you're so grounded and so into like prioritizing what's important and your well being And that's all we're about as well. And it's just really nice to see that you are, you know, this big celebrity dentists and doing all these things, but you're also really grounded and down to earth and have the right priorities in place. So we appreciate that and we will definitely be visiting you next time we're in LA.

Dr. Marashi: 40:19

It's an honor and a privilege to share time with you this we

Katie: 40:21

really appreciate you making time for us. We know how busy you are, and our listeners are gonna love everything, all of your tips, and we're very grateful. Thank you for your time.

Amy: 40:29

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 71 - Breaking Down Ayurvedic With Justine Lemos, Phd - Do You Know What Dosha You Are? (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 71 - Breaking Down Ayurvedic With Justine Lemos, Phd - Do You Know What Dosha You Are?

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman,

Katie: 0:18

and I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome to the show Nirvana sisters. We are sitting down today with Justine Lemos, Justine is an IU VEDA practitioner, PhD and founder of Shakti path. Today, Justine is going to help us better understand IU beta practices and all that it entails, we're going to touch on a few other really interesting topics like Tantra and Kundalini and so much more. But we want to get into the nitty gritty of what IU beta is, and Justine, what you do for your clients and how it helps people improve their wellness, their health and their well being. So thank you for coming to the show.

Justine: 1:10

I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. And I really appreciate it. Yeah,

Katie: 1:16

we're gonna take a step back really quickly, because we like to start our show with a nirvana of the week or of the day, whatever your Nirvana may be. So I'm just going to kick it to me first. What was your Nirvana Ami?

Amy: 1:28

Oh, let's see. Well, I think my Nirvana from today was Katy and I had a really great meeting this morning with someone that we just totally vibed with, to talk about some future stuff for Nirvana sisters and retreats. And just, it's always nice to meet someone that's in your space and who's like minded and it just kind of like rejuvenates all your ideas and creativity. So it's just like really nice to meet her. So that was my nirvana of the day. Just connecting. What about

Katie: 1:56

that? Yeah, I love that. That was a great moment. I think mine was just right before we got on, as you can tell, I have my bathing suit on which is not super professional, but I just did like 10 laps in my pool. And it was my exercise for the day and I felt really great afterwards. It was just kind of invigorating woke me up. So it was good. I don't I don't do laps. Often, though. It's hard. It's really, really hard. But I know it's such a great workout. So it was good. It was very nice. What about you just seeing what was yours?

Unknown: 2:25

I got up really early like as the sun was just rising and just had this really beautiful glowing meditation like in the early early Amrit nectar hours of this morning. So that was just really nice.

Amy: 2:39

Wow, that sounds lovely. And for our listeners, we were just talking before we got on Justine lives in Northern California near the redwoods. So we were just listening to her the dreamy landscape that she's around. So super, super cool. Okay, so let's get into it because I've heard this word and I've heard people talk about it, but I really don't know what it means and what it entails. So kind of give us the one on one tell us about the world of IR VEDA if I'm even saying it right and what it all means.

Unknown: 3:07

So I You're a why you are i you it means life. And Veda means knowledge, or teaching or science we could even say science. So I or Veda is the science of life. It's the knowledge of how to live life with the most joy and bliss and radiance possible. And joy and bliss and radiance and health in iron VEDA from an Ayurvedic perspective, is really a state of equanimity, a state of balance, but also a state of deep engagement. It's not like we achieve some ivory tower that then we're like crystallized and we don't do anything. No, it's the science of being alive and how to live well. Really, how do you live well from birth until death, like having the most juicy and wonderful life possible. So this is what I Aveda is it's a science of wellness but more than just the science of wellness. It's not just a philosophy of how to live but practice of how to live and it's sister sciences are yoga, and Jyotish Vedic Astrology, also Tantra. And so, in that knowledge of how to live under that umbrella, it's inclusive of lifestyle, daily lifestyle routines, and tips and things that we do to move throughout the day things that we do to move throughout a week. Things that we do through to move throughout a month, a lunar cycle, things that we do to move throughout a season or a time in life. We're very different when we're children. We need different care when we're children, and we do when we're in middle age than we would do when we You're old. And so under that vast umbrella, it includes nutrition. It includes herbal remedies, it includes essential oils, it includes cleansing, it includes all ways to process emotion. It includes all of these things because it really examines the person as a whole. So it has under its rubric, forms of psychology as well as forms of nutrition. And, as I Aveda has come into the West, mostly via yoga and Yoga Journal, unfortunate unfortunately, it has been, like categorized as just another diet system, like the Paleo like some people like I'm paleo or I do keto, or I do this or that and instead it's like, oh, no, I eat pie or basically, well, that's great. I'm glad if you eat from an Ayurvedic perspective that is wonderful for your health and wellness. But I Aveda is not just that it's a whole science of being alive.

Amy: 6:02

And is it's kind of a lifestyle that one would practice which would include all different types of elements.

Unknown: 6:09

Um, it can be yes, it can be a lifestyle, it can also be used to remedy you know, as a practitioner of Ayurveda, I'll have people that will come to me because you know, they have eczema or they have hot flashes, or they have difficult menstrual cycle or whatever it is. And then we can use it to remedy imbalances in the body, much as you would use Chinese medicine or another, so called alternative practice of health and wellness. But then once things are in their balance, then yes, we live an eye or Vedic lifestyle to maintain balance and wellness and radiance in the body. Yeah, in the body and in the mind,

Katie: 6:57

where does it originate from?

Unknown: 6:59

So the origins of Ayurveda are in ancient India, it's a system that has been around for about 5000 years of experimentation and trial and error. And we pull that knowledge through from about 5000 years to the modern day era.

Katie: 7:18

Okay, is there any connection, I recently started doing Transcendental Meditation and there's a connection there because it's the TM is basic is that, if

Unknown: 7:27

so, like, all of the sciences, that have their origins in ancient India, are all intertwined. They're all intertwined, like the, like the branches of a tree. And so Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who brought Transcendental Meditation, TM to the west, was also very involved as a vida as an Ayurvedic practitioner. And he actually has a whole school of Ayurveda, and a whole product line that I think is a very, very good product line called Maharishi Ayurveda products International. One reason why I think that that product line is so, so great is because they tripled, test their herbs for heavy metals, which is not frequently done. And sometimes people can get into like taking ashwagandha. And it might not be the most pure, even if it says organic because of how testing is done. And that company has the formulas that were created by some very great either Vedic by just AI or Vedic knowledge holders, or Vedic doctors, if you will, it's more than just a doctor, and they sell those particular format formulas rebranded. And so yes, there's absolutely an overlap between TM and Ayurveda. That said, just because we're practicing TM doesn't mean we're practicing IR Veda and just because we're practicing IRB doesn't mean we're necessarily a TM practitioner like that. Yeah.

Katie: 8:59

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. All right. So it's very vast and broad, as you said, and I, I want to think of the best way to kind of tackle it to bring to our listener to help them understand how they could use ionic practices for themselves, where do you think is a good place for someone to start?

Unknown: 9:23

So, thank you for asking. One of the wisdoms that we have inherited from Ayurveda is the wisdom of the doshas, and this will probably you may have heard of or your listeners may have heard of that, Ayurveda talks about three universal intelligences, that manifest in the universe that manifests through us that manifest in all of reality. And these three universal intelligences are Vata, Pitta and Kapha. And so, this is becoming more and more frequently found term analogy. Now, what are these doshas? How do they manifest? How do we figure out which dosha we are because we all carry a predominant dosha something that is like our cardinal blueprint. And if we can learn to live well in that blueprint, then we then our body, and our mind does really well. So Vata dosha is like air and ether. It's like air and ether, it's very rough and light and dry and movable and changeable. And people who have more Vata dosha in their constitution, tend to be very thin ectomorphic Very wiry, very creative. But because air is always moving around, they tend towards anxiety, they tend towards dryness in the body, they can tend towards constipation, they can tend towards disrupted sleep, all these types of things are typical kinds of vata, dosha, aggravation, pitta, dosha, people are like fire and a little bit of water, the really intense, they're really penetrating, these are the type A personalities like you find them in the boardroom, you find them as the, like intense athletes, you find them doing extreme sports, and they tend towards problems of too much heat, like hot flashes, like rashes, like anger, like irritation, like frustration, all these things are pitta, dosha, typical imbalance, and then they're Kapha dosha people, I'll empathize with people that are like muscular, they're athletic, you know, they're like the strong gymnasts, etc. Ca for those who people are like earth and water. So this is very steady, very slow, very sweet energy. And these people tend to have larger bodies and tend towards, towards the laziness, like, they just want to relax and enjoy. And they're the sweetest people to be around, they don't put any pressure on you, and they give you like the best hugs, like we all have a Kapha dosha Fred, and we're like, oh, that person and they're just so nice to us, right. But Kapha dosha people can tend towards weight gain, it's like very hard for them to lose weight, they can tend towards like hoarding and greediness and real emotional repression and these types of things. And so, how these three doshas interplay in each of us, and how one is more dominant for each of us, and knowing which one is most dominant for each of us, gives us a clue for how to live our life. Because, like increases, like, like increases like this means, and like, I have a lot of Vata dosha. Go for a Vata dosha. Person travel is really Vata dosha. aggravating because it's more movement, or being at elevation is really aggravating or cold weather is really aggravating. So like the worst thing a Vata dosha person can do to keep them is to go up to a mountaintop in the winter and try to run a marathon, like that's a no go. And if that person does it, when they finish that marathon, they're going to be all depleted, and they're going to be out of balance, and they're not going to feel good, right? They need to be like covered in warm blankets and eating warm soup and oiling their body so that they don't get all dried out. So at the at the most simple level, which is just working with opposites and like opposites and similarities to create balance in the body and in the mind. And at the soul level.

Katie: 13:53

It's It's interesting as you're I was thinking of all the people that I know, that are each thing, right, weren't you, Amy? Were you doing the same thing?

Amy: 14:03

Yeah. And then I was thinking, what am I and that's, that was my, my next question was going to be so there's the three what are they called, again? dosha shares? So does everybody have all three? Or is it just like there's one that's more dominant? Because I was thinking like, I'm probably a combination of a lot of Yes, yeah. So how does one like kind of figure out what one's more prominent or

Unknown: 14:27

so we all have all three. If we didn't, we'd be dead. Okay, the Kapha dosha is our immunity and our strength and our stability, Pitta. dosha, is how we transform things, how we digest things, how we digest food, and Vata dosha is our nervous system. It's how we communicate, it's how we move, but it's like, you know, one of those like graphs, were like one of those bar graphs where you've got a lot of one and less of the others. Yeah, and so most of us have one or two that's like, really pumped up, and one that is just less in All right, so you probably have a lot of Pitta and some vata and maybe less Kapha. Like that. I'm just if I had to guess just looking at you because we can look at certain things in the body and the face and the eyes that give us a clue. As to those doshas, right now, we can do like a quiz online, I have a quiz, there's like these different ways, the best way is to go to a practitioner, because they're really going to be able to tell you, we can do some self analysis, like, really, if we look at our bone structure, our body shape, like there's stuff like if your finger overlaps around your wrist, like how it, you know, that will give us some clue, like, if you're very small boned, you probably have more Vata dosha. Like, I'm a very small person, but that but I'm not completely Vata dosha I definitely have some Pitta dosha I definitely have like muscular strength and like I'm slightly athletic. And truly, truly Vata dosha people can appear like emaciated. It's like the Twiggy model, you know what I mean? Like those people who are just like, Oh my God, you're like bone sticking everywhere, not because of an eating disorder. That's just who they are and how they are. We can also feel it in like the handshake of a person like, like if the hands are very cold and kind of a limp handshake. That's a Vata dosha person like very strong warm handshake that the Pitta dosha person, like a warm, soft pillow, or just a soft pillow around your hand, that's going to be a more Kapha dosha person. The other thing I like to say, which is probably not PC, but it's okay, I'm gonna say it anyhow. Is that like, but shape is a really clear indication of dosha and this is not about shaming at all. Let's hear this right. Vata dosha people like have no but like just disappears they've got no booty, like they can't shake it.

Amy: 16:58

Okay, that's not back there. Right? That's

Unknown: 17:01

the the Pitta dosha person there but like sticks out at you. Like they've got a really nice shelf spot, right? It's like, like that, you know, that like in its in its exalted form, it's like a really great gymnast but that perky and like it's not right, no, I do have pitta, dosha, you're probably pitta, dosha and the Cappadocia, but tends to go wide, like Kapha dosha, butts can be like this very beautiful round,

Amy: 17:30

that's me.

Unknown: 17:32

Know, maybe it could have picked us up kapha, right, you definitely have something to dosha that's there in the Constitution. But there are these ways of determining. And so then, like, you think about that, that bar graph, right, that's like, I have a lot of vata and I have some pitha and I have less cough up, but then we can get imbalanced. So we can be a Vata dosha person, but we can have an extreme pitta, dosha, balance, imbalance, rather, who are Vata dosha person, but all of a sudden, we've got a huge Pitta dosha imbalance, like because we're eating tons of garlic, and tons of chili, and we're sunbathing all day long. And we're just doing all these things. And we're angry, we're angry about our job that is looking into a computer screen, which is really fiery to the senses. And then all of a sudden, we get imbalance, we get hot flashes, or we get rashes, or we get anger, or we get irritability. So you can be a constitutional type and have an imbalance that is from a different dosha.

Amy: 18:34

Yeah, it's funny that we were saying that, because I was thinking like, my wrists are really small. And then I've seen my butt's on, like, it's not the shelf. But so it's like, it's interesting that you're saying that so essentially, is it like, you have maybe two dominant one not as dominant, dominant, and then you, you basically work, you do practices to make sure that you're staying in that balance. And then if it gets off balance, there are things you can do to get it back in that balance.

Unknown: 19:00

That's precisely the right back in that balance for you. Right, not for somebody else. And that's the magic of the whole system is like, you know, if we go to the Western doctor, the Western doctor gives the 250 pound man the same bed that they give to me as like, extremely small woman, right? Yeah. And that that's like, I mean, maybe they'll reduce the dosage but it's essentially the same medication, I Aveda says no, like, you are different. You are unique. You need the medicine that is right for you. And that meant and that everything in the world can be medicine. It's very beautiful.

Amy: 19:38

Yes, that is beautiful. And you were talking about hormonal balance and hot flashes and things like that. And so that also leads me to believe that based on what type of woman you are, yeah, treat those types of things differently, which is so interesting, because I was talking to a friend the other day, and she's 50 and she was talking to me about she's like, well, I don't have any like Nana plus symptoms, but other people that are my age that are doing this and they're gonna happen. She's like, I don't know if any of that and so right that just made me think that they're doshas are different. Yes.

Unknown: 20:10

Does she more Kapha dosha in her body?

Amy: 20:14

Which one is that? The third one? You

Unknown: 20:15

mentioned that the third? Yes, yes and water and more grounded and a bit heavier in the body. Yeah, because she doesn't have that heat pumping through, and she has more grounding. And she has more what we call adjusts, which is like this beautiful life energy, which can also go sour and become toxic. But because she has that grounding, and actually, that fat layer creates a buffer to some of the hormonal imbalances that women who are more vata, more really skinny, more pitha more athletic and really intense, tend to get so there's this really, yes, you're exactly right. That's so exhausting. Now you now you've got it, you've got the whole thing.

Katie: 20:59

If you're, if you're imbalanced, what are some things that you can do to balance?

Unknown: 21:04

Yeah. So it really depends upon that particular person, what their imbalances, how much capacity they have for change. And one thing that I'm always looking to do in my practice, and in my courses is like, I could give you a list of like, 25, things to do, and things to eat and not eat and like, but if you don't do any of them, that's not going to work well. So instead, I want to give you like three things that will create massive shift for you. And then you'll feel so successful, and you'll feel better, and then you can take more change and make more shift, right smart, and, and so thank you. So it's really unique to what that imbalance is, and who that person is, right? We always have to be matching the the remedies to that person's constitution and to what the imbalance is, and looking for. This is the difference between a clinical practitioner which I am and like, a kind of lifestyle consultant or something, like I'm looking for how did this imbalance come to be? What are the deep roots of this imbalance? Like, is this an imbalance that you've been working on for 25 years? Is this an imbalance that actually has its origin in the relationship to your mother? Like, where did this come from? And go to the source of that and create like, deep profound change at the source of that?

Katie: 22:37

And do you have a lot of patients or clients that come to you that are dealing with things like autoimmune disease, or Lyme disease, like you know, these all of these different afflictions? Do you see a lot of that,

Unknown: 22:50

um, I do see some autoimmune, I do see a lot of hormone imbalance, how hormones shift like, that's a time when women are suddenly like, it can be a really a crisis time for women. And so, I see a lot of that. I also do a lot of work with sexuality, and, like sexual radiance, really, for women who are like, Wait, my hormones are shifting, I don't want to have sex or I have vaginal dryness or I have like, like, all these things going on. How do I how do I move through this? Like, what is this new pattern of being? So that's some somewhere that I really work with a lot to

Katie: 23:36

know. Does that touch on Tantra? Is that?

Unknown: 23:40

Oh, yeah.

Katie: 23:44

So tell us Yeah. All right. My only knowledge of it is hearing about sting and his beautiful wife practicing tantric sex. That's really all I've ever heard.

Unknown: 23:57

So, so, so Bali, oh my god, I love it so much. I forgot about that. Okay. So Tantra means to weave it means to weave together and Tantra is that we have to talk about Neo Tantra which is like kind of like westernized soulful sex, which is cool and great and why not like great up level your sex life. Go there with some incense friends, have a lot of fun. And then we can talk about some fat as a, as a philosophic current from ancient India. That presupposes that every aspect of the manifest world is divine, and is a pathway towards experiencing divinity and bliss. very radical, like everything, the trash dump pathway to divinity and bliss, like every single thing is a conduit. And therefore that contrast do teach us that sex and sexuality is one such pathway. And that it is fundamentally intertwined with our health well being and our radiance our vitality. And so that's what I'm gonna say about that.

Katie: 25:24

That's it. That's all you're gonna give us. Give us more. The GSC What do you want? Yeah. I mean, I, okay, so what I took from that was that your sexual desire, how much of a sexual being you feel how radiant and feminine you feel, is all part of your wellness, and to be able to tap into that, you know, for if a woman is struggling and going through hormonal imbalances, and has no sex drive. And then you just start to feel like you don't feel feminine anymore. And you start to feel like you're losing a softness to you and that it is a desire and a passion. That's all part of it. So you're saying Tantra, that's part of, of well being that's part of life. And that's the focus.

Unknown: 26:16

Exactly right. And then we I mean, in, we can talk about, I mean, there are advanced rituals and practices and all sorts of all sorts of voodoo Juju that we can, that we can talk about a little bit, and a lot of it is, is secret. That said, working with vital winds and energies in the body and in the mind is and working with energetic alchemise, right, to transform and transmute energetic states in the body and in the mind and to not be contained in this mundane reality is all part of the teaching. They probably teach

Amy: 27:03

differently again, based on what type of what's the name, Miguel take the doshas. Yeah, totally. You are so yeah, right. Interesting. So

Unknown: 27:16

we're gonna have a friend of mine, a dear colleague and a friend, we're gonna actually teach a course on contra for women suit that's like, involves many of the so called Secret practices, etc. That's on like, the chakra system. You guys know the chakra system, right? Yeah, blah, blah, blah. It's on the chakra system and sex. It's on like Jade egg rituals. From a Taoist perspective. It's on like, bliss drop practices in the energetic body where you're moving inner winds and channels to experience like deep, overwhelming bliss in the present moment when you're not having sex. Right. And then you're like driving through the pickup line trying to pick up your kid and you're like, Oh, my God, I'm having an orgasm right now. School. Never happened. Never happens. It doesn't happen, right?

Amy: 28:05

Oh my god. That's hilarious. That's great. I want to go back to what you were saying just before you were saying about how you, you know, you prescribe like three things, let's say or give someone three things to do based on their what they're struggling with or whatever. Are those two things like? Is it food related? Is it like, like a

Unknown: 28:26

are slowly person to person? It totally depends, like, person to person. And we haven't talked about Vedic Astrology. I'll talk about it a little bit. Yeah, I want to hear about. Yeah, I want to talk about it in just a second. But it depends, like, what level needs the remedy. Like if if it's something that's actually in your mind, but the problem is originating from I can give you and this happens with weight loss all the time. I have to just be straight with you guys. I'm pretty straight with you guys. I've already talked about orgasms in the pickup line. So we're like, really good. That is, right. It's like in your mind now. I'm sorry. We're just we've gone. They're really great friends. So what the heck was I talking about?

Amy: 29:11

You were talking? Yeah,

Unknown: 29:13

weight loss, weight loss. It's my least favorite thing. In my practice, I pretty much don't do it anymore. If somebody comes and says, I want to lose weight, I'm like, why is that because nine times out of 10 I can put them on any diet in the world. They won't lose weight, because it is something in their mind and it's a deep seated fear. And it's like all of this pent up emotion and like all of this stuff, that unless they address that what is keeping it in place, then the diet doesn't work right. So it depends like What remedies we need depends upon like, where where you are and which level of the self we are addressing. Is it just the physical body? Is it the mind? Is it the energetic body like we're just how Talking about the chakras, maybe your heart chakra needs to be really opened. Now we can do that through some rose essential oil, or we can do it with like specific sexual positions, if that's where you want to go, right? Or you're open to, or you know that we, there's all these different remedies depending upon that person and what they need. And it's my job to like, see that person? Yeah, to see that person and then then understand that remedy, which will bring them to a layer of awakening to themselves, right

Katie: 30:34

to where it all starts to work, and then start things start falling into place, you would appreciate this. And I wonder if you've heard of it, if it's related at all, but I just recently signed up for a 30 day course, a hip opener course, because I have had a lot of hip pain lately. And I was reading that you hold trauma in your hips. And yeah, I thought I'm gonna give this a try. So right, so yeah, just yeah, I'm gonna start it tomorrow. But is that is that? Yeah, totally

Unknown: 31:03

second, second chakra Sacral Chakra is is the water element. And it absolutely relates to emotions and emotional flow, and how we contain and hold emotion and how we process emotion. And so hip openers are great.

Katie: 31:20

Very cool.

Amy: 31:20

I have a question. Because this might be something that's on a lot of people's mind, just like over the last few years, there's been so much anxiety, you know, all over the place. And so and when you were saying before, if something's more in the mind, it's not physical, but it's like anxiety or things like that. How can I mean, I know, this is so broad, and it depends on person, what type they are. But is there something someone could do in their daily life to like, ease anxiety? I'm just trying to think of something that a lot of people Yeah,

Unknown: 31:52

absolutely. You know, there's so many different things. But the most, the easiest remedy for that is to walk slower. Like when you are going to your car, you know, we get into that like, Okay, I'm going out of the grocery store, and I'm getting into the car, and I'm just filling in, I'm checking my phone, and I'm in like the radios on and like all of this, just walk slowly, between point A and point B. And that's it. Like even like, feel like you're a gorilla. Like what? Because get back into your body. Because anxiety is when we are in the future or the past. And if we can come back right now. Like into any mindful state, then it dissipates. Right. So that's one like totally simple remedy. Just walk.

Amy: 32:50

That's great. That's good for kids. When kids get all crazy about something, yeah, but for

Unknown: 32:55

kids, like, I'll do this with my kid, I'll be like, okay, Name five things that are present right now. They'll be like, Hey, I know. They'll be like, No Name five things and they'll be like, I see my shoe. They see the picture on the wall. And by the time they've done five, they're done. Right because they're back they've like they've like Soul retrieved with some crystals and like recite

Amy: 33:17

Yeah, yeah. Right now.

Katie: 33:22

All right. I was great. I want to hear about it was the Vedic Astrology. Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, we can't we can't miss that. So help us better understand.

Unknown: 33:35

Okay, so it's another one of these huge sciences that has its origins in ancient India. And I use Vedic Astrology as an Ayurvedic practitioner. Most many Ayurvedic practitioners do not practice Jyotish, which is another name for Vedic Astrology. It's the science of light. So it's how light manifests in the universe through you. And so, Vedic Astrology is accurate to what is actually happening in the sky right now. Whereas Western Astrology is accurate to what was happening in the sky 2000 years ago. Oops. I Western astrology really triggers me. So I'm just gonna put it aside right now. Because it's not accurate. That's why it's like

Amy: 34:20

horoscopes and like that kind of stuff.

Unknown: 34:22

And it's not accurate. Like, like, oh, the moon is in cancer. If you look up Astro logic astronomically at the sky. The moon is not in cancer. Right now. It's actually we just had a New Moon in Gemini, right? It's just not right. So that's a problem for me. Yeah. Anyhow, people love it. So I'll let them do their thing. I'll do my thing. Okay. So it's accurate to what is actually happening in the sky and how we, it shows us the blueprint of the karma, that that soul has come into this lifetime to work on So really big stuff, really big stuff like Have I come into this lifetime? To learn how to be better at relationship? Have I come into this lifetime to learn about addiction? Like that's pretty heavy karma, right? Have I come into this lifetime to learn about cancer? That's some pretty heavy karma, right? Or have I come into this lifetime to learn about money? Like, think of these things as good or bad, they aren't good or bad. It's like, What has my soul chosen, or be been propelled in this lifetime to learn to learn about? Wow. And so when we look at that, then that gives me a picture. That's where I usually start when I'm working with a one on one client, because, you know, why is one child born perfect, and another child is born with a deformed arm, right? That has no reason? There's no reason except for if we look at these bigger karmic pictures, so why have you manifested in this particular way, this particular slice of light coming into the universe, right? And those karmic lessons that we're learning, it's like, we go to a climbing gym, and like the first time we climb the wall, we're like, Oh, my God, that's so hard. All of my muscles are like jello, and I'm exhausted. But then we go back again, and we climb it again. And it feels better. But we're still learning about this new territory. And similarly, this is what we do over and over and over and over in our lifetimes, right? We know this, we like this guy who's an asshole. We dated this guy who is not very nice. And and then we're like, okay, thank you. I didn't know what kind of podcasts are on. There. But so we did this guy, and he's unavailable, right? unavailable, man like that karma, right? And then we're like, I'm not going to do that. So then we did another guy, guess who do we date? Another unavailable guy, right? Because we, it's like these things that we're getting a PhD on in this lifetime. It's not that, like, we just get better and better and better and better at this thing. But when we look at the chart, we can provide, we can provide the wisdom, it's so helpful to be seen in this way to be like, Oh, that's who you are. I see what you are working on.

Katie: 37:14

Like, it helps you understand the why. Yes, there's how it gives you the why.

Amy: 37:19

So how do you? How do you do it? Like, what is it? Like? How does one?

Unknown: 37:24

Yeah, yeah, so we need the birth date, time and place. And then there are charts within charts within charts. And like, I use a software that that pulls up the chart so that you can see all of these. I mean, it's a system of signs and symbols, and then it's it's our job to interpret those. So you do

Katie: 37:47

their meetings. Yeah.

Amy: 37:49

And then that then informs that person, kind of what their

Unknown: 37:54

Yeah, so if I'm, if I'm doing just like an IRB, I don't mean just but if I'm doing a health console, I'll look at it and just be like, Okay, this is the picture. And this is this will tell me a great information. And then I leave that and then we're going into like, what are you eating every day? And when do you go to sleep? And how much alcohol are you drinking? And like, what are these other factors, but then if I'm just doing a chart reading, we'll spend an hour and a half or two hours just looking at like, what are the what are you working on in this lifetime?

Amy: 38:23

And then what is suitable sorry, then what are people I'm just trying to, like? For lack of a better word, like dumb it down for myself, like, what did people like you read there? You do a reading for them, like based on their birthday or all that, then like, they learn kind of what they're here for. Then what do they do with that doomsaying?

Unknown: 38:48

Yeah, yeah, no, I do. We do have remedies for when there are difficulties in the chart. And then there's also the fact that like, there's the time that you were born, and that's like your blueprint, and then there's stuff that's happening right now. Right that overlays that the end so we can see when times are going to be difficult for you. And that's really helpful to know, like, wow, that's gonna be a really hard time for me, right? I'm going by I'm gonna lose my job and my boyfriend is gonna break up with me, whatever it is, right? That's gonna be a hard time and just knowing that is like, okay, yeah, it's not the end of the world. This is what is happening right now. And it's also a framework for understanding reality, understanding reality, that is incredibly potent.

Katie: 39:40

It also seems like it would be you know, so many people say they're searching for their why and like, why are they here? What is their what are they supposed to be doing on this planet? And if this is giving your karma then I'm kind of telling you that exactly what that insight. Yes. And then you can do something with it.

Unknown: 40:00

That's exactly right. It's like that knowledge and then you

Katie: 40:03

just say I'm gonna get a reading. It sounds very cool.

Amy: 40:06

It doesn't cool.

Katie: 40:07

Yeah. Amazing. It's, it's all very like, it's, I mean, it's much more vast. Like we talked about it

Amy: 40:16

all. Yeah, I know. I was gonna say that too. Yeah. It would be so interesting to just have like deep dives on each one of these things. Because we just start like scratching the surface. It sounds like there's just so much underneath to, to learn about. So. Yeah, we'll have to like, have you back to talk.

Unknown: 40:36

Come back. I like you guys.

Amy: 40:37

Maybe we do a section on Tantra. And we do a section on,

Unknown: 40:42

like on the pickup line at school.

Amy: 40:45

Yeah, exactly. Like there's just so much to get into. And I feel like we could do a whole session on Vedic Astrology. Yeah. Which is super interesting. Yeah. Okay, awesome. Well, we're gonna want to

Katie: 40:59

hear but yeah, go ahead. So you do some you do retreats as well. Right. Justine, tell us about your summer. Last

Unknown: 41:08

summer, I do a summertime retreat, and I do a winter time retreat. Summertime bliss retreats coming up here in July. It's in California, near Nevada City, which is like this super, spiritual, yummy place. And we do a five day retreat. And we dive deep into all of these things. And into practice. And it's I don't know, if you have you ever been on a retreat, like a spiritual or yoga retreat before?

Amy: 41:38

I know. I have, but not like, not that, like more.

Unknown: 41:45

So it's so relaxing, because you don't even have to think about what you're going to eat. You know, like, even if you're on vacation, you have to be like, Okay, that's your restaurant, whatever. It's like, that's one of the most relaxing things about retreat is like your food is like this amazing organic food and it appears before you. And so it just like takes away all of this pressure. And we just we do yoga and alchemical practices and fire rituals and water healings and Slike. Really? Amazing. Yeah, super fun. Yeah. So my summertime retreat is there in Nevada City, I think I have one space left. And then in the wintertime, generally I do like a kind of invite only retreat, which means like, if you're if you if you contact me, and you're cool, you can come by summertime.

Amy: 42:37

just from looking at someone where they fit

Unknown: 42:41

out and then I read their mind and use my psychic skills. So wintertime retreat is going to be a women's Tantra retreat this winter. I'm super working on the details of it. Very cool.

Katie: 42:54

My husband would buy me a ticket tomorrow.

Unknown: 42:57

All right, let's do it. I'm sending you I want you to comment, it's gonna be so much fun. Very cool.

Amy: 43:05

Love it. Okay,

Unknown: 43:06

I know I was like this upcoming Tantra course that I that I'm going to do in the fall. It's a six week course for women about tantric sex and sexuality. We'll touch on some of the Neo Tantra stocks, but it's very much from this kind of rooted position and place. I was talking to my friend who does marketing and I was like, Can I just mark it towards men? And like get them to buy it for their wives? Like he was like, Yeah, you can probably do that. He was like, you might pick up a few.

Katie: 43:34

Yeah, sounds very Yeah, it sounds like the way to go. Alright. So where can our listeners find you if they want to reach out and work with you and your retreats?

Unknown: 43:46

I'm just in limos.com is my website and I'm on Instagram, Justine Lemos, Ph. D. And you can find me there you can reach out you can send me a DM I'm super responsive. They're like, I also really enjoy like that. I also have a UI I also run a mighty network which is like free social media the the base level is free. And I mean, they're like everyday that's the bliss the dash bliss.mn.to You guys I think, Oh yeah, I'm on Gaia TV. I've 12 shows on Gaia and actually a big course coming out through Sofia yoga International. But the best way is like on Instagram or on my website, send me a message. I love personal contact with my students and clients and like people like if you message me you're gonna really get me like not another person.

Katie: 44:43

Nice. Yeah, well, this was a lot of fun. This is something we should get. Yeah, we should get into our rap session because I'm really curious to hear some of your answers. is what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Unknown: 45:00

So it's what we call a younga, which is a complete body oil creation that I do almost daily.

Katie: 45:08

What does that entails more? Yeah,

Unknown: 45:10

so you get warm oil, it has to be warm and you warm it up. And it can be like verbalized oil or oil for specific reasons. Or for specific purposes and you oil your entire body, you can do your hair. You don't have to and then usually you're taking a warm shower afterwards and like rubbing the oil into your body. It's this wonderful, amazing self care ritual.

Amy: 45:33

Sounds lovely.

Katie: 45:34

Are you doing this at like a certain time of day? Is this a morning ritual in

Unknown: 45:38

the morning? Or night? I usually do it at night. Yeah,

Amy: 45:42

yeah, I was like a wind down. That sounds so relaxing.

Unknown: 45:45

Yeah. Jazz gets oil everywhere. I'm fine with it. Yeah.

Amy: 45:49

Yeah. Love that. Okay, so the next one we call our five minute flow. So you just got out of the shower, you dry it off. Uber or your friend whatever alerted you. They're five minutes away. They're picking you up. What is your quick beauty routine? Like what are your go to Holy girls had to get ready and get out the door on time? I mean, ideally, it wouldn't be five minutes because we want to slow down but if you have Right, right, totally,

Unknown: 46:13

but like I like I if I've oily ated like I'm ready. Like I'm ready to go. I'm like no frills, like, Yeah, I mean, make sure my architecture shaved spray on some deodorant. Like, if it's a fancy, I might have some like, mascara on. Yeah,

Amy: 46:34

but other than that oily ated and good to go.

Unknown: 46:38

That's right. I'm ready to walk out the door. Love it. Yep.

Katie: 46:42

Amazing. All right. And the last one is, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Unknown: 46:50

Well, I think we've talked about most of it, like, you know, I practice physical yoga daily. I practice meditation daily, I do all of these Ayurvedic rituals and internal and external alchemy. So that's good, fun. Love it.

Katie: 47:10

Justin, I feel like you probably have some really cool mantras. We'd like to close our show with a mantra. Do you have any that come to mind? And I know that's I know that term. We use that term very loosely here. Obviously, we're not using it as Sanskrit mantras, not necessarily speaking to that. But more just like something we like to end, on a note, a reminder, an affirmation, something along those lines. So if you don't have anything, no pressure, but I just thought I'd ask right.

Unknown: 47:40

And of course, like to me, I'm like, oh, all of the Sanskrit mantras come directly out. I'm like, oh, yeah, Mantra. We can.

Katie: 47:49

Yeah, please. I would love a Sanskrit mantra. I just didn't want to put the pressure on. Oh, there is

Unknown: 47:55

no pressure. So first, I'm gonna chant a Gayatri mantra that invites in seven forms of light, like into us. So it's like an invocation of luminosity. Where we're like pouring sunlight down through us and then like, emanating sun out through our pores, like so. This is the globe on track. This is the like, track Okay, yeah,

Amy: 48:23

ready

Unknown: 48:29

for move us VA server tour. Training knee bar go live. Yes. Yeah, daddy nahi the you're not proud to die.

Amy: 48:54

Can you know that was your voice is gorgeous. It's like went through me.

Katie: 49:02

It's very grounding and relaxing. That was beautiful. Thank you so

Amy: 49:07

much. That was so special.

Katie: 49:10

That we appreciate so grateful for your time.

Unknown: 49:13

I had super fun hanging out with you guys. You too.

Amy: 49:16

Thanks so much. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 69 - Product Junkies September, Back To School Edition - Things We Are Loving Now And Putting In Our Cart (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 69 - Product Junkies September, Back To School Edition - Things We Are Loving Now And Putting In Our Cart.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:29

Hello, September. Welcome back to Nirvana sisters podcast. It's Amy and Katie. And we've missed you all. We've been doing a best of series in August, which has been so successful. We've gotten so many downloads on all of our favorite episodes. So thanks, everyone, for continuing to listen and support us. We are here to talk about product junkies for September. And the theme is really back to school and in my opinion, streamlining at least the products that I have to review with you today, Katie, so

Katie: 1:00

it's funny that you say because of streamlining that's genius for like back to school and fallen everything I mind was leaning a little bit more towards, I don't know, just doing the little things for the kids to help. kind of nudge them along and get them into their groove. It's like not really streamlining so I've got some beauty. I've got some some like self care, so it's a little mix up. But my first one this morning Reese woke up and she came to me in the very first thing she said to me is Mommy, my lips are chapped. Which is crazy, because she's only been in school for two days, but she doesn't have any ever chapstick or anything with her and so I'm gonna get her. My new I'm obsessed with this product. I'm gonna get her and Maddie. This. It's the elf right or die lip gloss. Have you tried it? Oh, no, it's, it's really, really. I'm obsessed with locks. It's a lip balm. It's called Lip Balm. Actually, I'm wearing it now. Lip Balm. Okay, it has really nicely. Yeah, it has a glossy, glassy finish, but it's not tacky, like lip glosses. So it's just kind of like a nice consistency. It's very smooth. They have a bunch of different colors. This is the clear one, and has like a little mint to it. Oh, and I love it. This is a really, really good product. It's only $6 I got it at CVS. It's It's solid. It's really good.

Amy: 2:19

They have the best Yeah, the best product. So I have a question Does that like, Can you taste it at all? Like, you know, sometimes with a bomb you it kind of like gets in your mouth and you can taste it?

Katie: 2:28

Not really, I don't taste it that much it and I think it has a bit to do with the consistency of it. It's just a really good, thin consistency. That's not tacky. So

Amy: 2:38

good. Yeah, that's a good one. That's probably a good one to to like keeping your car because I feel like I'm always looking for chapstick or something in my car. I don't know. You're sitting there and you're like my lips are dry and then you don't have anything. Okay, that's a great one. I love that. Yeah.

Katie: 2:53

I'm obsessed with it. It's really good. What do you have for us him?

Amy: 2:56

Okay, so I'm starting out with a gift that Katie gave me. Thank you very much. So sweet just sent me a surprise gift one day this summer. And I wanted to share with everyone what a good gift this was. So there's a brand called Urban stems that sends out really beautiful flowers, really modern flowers, really chic flowers, and they have all these different fun ways you can do it. So Katie had sent me dry flowers. And the specific ones that she sent me are called the Kayden. And they're so pretty, because they're kind of like white with pops of hot pink. And she knows I love my hot pink. So it was just so beautiful. And I put it in my office right away with a really pretty vase. And then the coolest part is you can do an add on and so they have a collab with glow recipes. So she also sent me this Glow Recipe, watermelon glow pink juice moisturizer. And I think I had reviewed their other products and one of our product junkies like the nice and my serum, which I love. And this sort of has the same consistency but it's more of a moist, it feels so good on the skin. And so it was such a good combo and such a nice treat to get it I was so surprised and it was so sweet. And if you have a gift to give a teacher or a friend or something like that I would highly recommend this specific setup from urban stems or the site in general. The Kaden right now is on dollars plus the Glow Recipe ad is like 20 bucks, but they have so many good combinations. So urban stands highly recommend great for gifts.

Katie: 4:29

Yeah, and you turned me on to urban stems. We've sent urban stems to some of our listeners and our I mean some of our guests rather right. Yeah, we love urban setting, right? Yeah. All right, and it's so many yet sticking in the theme of beauty. This doesn't entirely have too much to do with our like back to school theme but it's such a good one. You know, how Bethenny Frankel on tick tock does all of this comparisons of like the high end low end product, I'm obsessed so she got me into it that I might have I've always used Nars Radiant Creamy Concealer, which we all know is like a holy grail. Right? It's great. I think Lauren we've been using it for years. So I picked up the elf hydrating camo concealer and the satin finish the other day the same time I got this lip gloss. It's almost identical.

Amy: 5:20

Yeah, it's very hydrating. Like was it easy to match your shade?

Katie: 5:24

It was they do they have, they don't have, you know, a million colors, but they do have a decent selection. And it's very hydrating. And the nice thing about it is that like very little bit goes a very long way. You don't need a whole lot like for under my eye. I do one, maybe two dabs and I get full coverage. So it's it's a really good product. And this was you know, also I mean, alphas like such a great price point. Yeah, this was and it's thin, because it's really hydrating. And it doesn't get in your creases and it holds up. Yeah, it like lasts throughout the day, and I paid $7 for it. So I mean, that's it, you know, it's so bad. I'm always gonna get my Nars concealer because it's just like, I can't live without it. But this is a good substitute, you know? So yeah, that's good one.

Amy: 6:14

Yeah, it's funny you say that because my Nars I have but it's old. So like, I need to replace it. And I was in the store the other day because I had wanted to try the closest concealer I tried it I didn't like it even though a lot of people love it. And I exchange it because I love that brands but then when I came home for some reason it was like the wrong color. So now I gotta exchange that. I've been trying tons of concealers we could almost do like a whole show on concealer. I feel like we are both obsessed. Yeah, well speaking of Bethany Frankel. Brechtian I found on her channel as well and I ran out to buy it or I went online to buy it, it was sold out, and then it finally gotten stuck. Its solvency Oh glassy. So the brand is called Express. It's a highlighting blush, the texture reacts with the pH of your skin. So it makes it provides a dewy blushing tint, and color, but it varies depending on your skin tone and your pH. So it also contains a dose of caffeine which gives that extra boost in hydration for your skin. So I'm going to show you, I'm going to show you it and I have been using this since I got it is so cool. Again, you don't need a lot. You just need a little bit, but I'm going to show you. We're just gonna put a dab here and adapt here and see how it goes on clear. Yeah. Can you see how it's turning into like a rosy?

Katie: 7:37

Yeah, I've seen this on Instagram. So it really does do what it says it's gonna do.

Amy: 7:42

It's amazing. And it's like really hydrating, and it feels good. So you could literally speaking of streamlining just leave the house wearing this. So I can see that nice. See that glow. And it's clear. It's like, Look at this. Like, wow, oh, I don't know how it works. And what's interesting is I know that it works because some days the color is different. So it's different for everyone. So I think it just depends how your skin feels that day or something. Like sometimes it's even more of a 10 sometimes it's less of a 10 It's very interesting, but I love it because every time you put it on it looks good because you're not trying to like match your blush. So anyway, highly recommend

Katie: 8:20

it. It's amazing. It looks just like the sun stock.

Amy: 8:24

Yeah, it's I'm telling you, it is the best like Bethany's video of it is hilarious. She, you know, she's so dramatic. She was like, saw it. Flash like, yeah, it's great. So it's $26 I got it directly on their website, great product. Okay, what do we do next?

Katie: 8:40

So I have one that you know, this is kind of for the kiddos and I use it myself and it's to help them get back into the you know, the back to school routine of going to bed earlier. The sun is still up, you know, it's not these, like long, I can stay up as late as I want summer hours anymore. So we're trying to get them to wind down and get into the bedtime nighttime routine. So every night I'm spraying this on their pillow. It's called calm sleep mist. And it's the same brand that makes the magnesium supplements. Oh yeah. Called a magnesium alga.

Amy: 9:12

Yeah.

Katie: 9:14

It smells it's it's an elixir of lavender chamomile, Clary Sage and frankincense. And it's a very, like it's a very dreamy, relaxing scent. I've been using it nice for your girls. Yeah, that thing.

Amy: 9:29

Do they like it?

Katie: 9:31

They love it. Yeah, they love it. And it's $20 I got it again at CVS. Can you tell that I'm obsessed with our CVs? We were really good. CVS. CVS,

Amy: 9:40

CVS CVS beauty is like killing it. They're the best

Katie: 9:43

solid. Yeah, it's good. So but yeah, I love it. It's very like relaxing scent. And

Amy: 9:49

by them and by boys. I wonder if they'll even notice, but I can try to get their routine of them not staying up so late. So speaking of nighttime, my next product is the care estas ate our magic night serum. I don't know if you've seen this first of all, How gorgeous is that glass just makes me happy. It's just so pretty. What it is, it's like the serum that you put on your hair. At night it smells really good. First of all, it's almost like a it's a it's not really a mask because it's not heavy but it's a serum and it's a hydrating treatment. So essentially you just put it on at night like all over your hair, I really focus on the ends because that's the driest for me. And my hair I've been using it I haven't been using it as consistently as I'd like to but I have been using it in the days that I use that I do wake up with softer, kind of more silky hair so I think if you do it every night your hair will really start to improve so I just started trying this but I really really like it so far and it smells really good too. It really did long time you only need like a little pump and especially if you're just kind of doing it on your hands it's great so I John and I go to bed sell fairly good. Yeah and Karis das a lot.

Katie: 10:58

There Karis. Das is steep price wise, but they deliver. I really feel like that brand that are solid. Yeah. What do you wake up with less tangles in your hair? Because you know, Maddie has the care like you do doesn't help with that.

Amy: 11:12

It probably does. I mean, I don't wake up with tangled hair. Because I've always slept with my hair like this on the pillow up. Sleep with my hair down on my face. So for I don't know, it's just more company. So my hair is kind of, I never get tangled. But yeah, I would imagine it doing wonderful.

Katie: 11:28

You just gave me some insight into how you sleep. And now I'm really interested to sleep flat on your back the whole night with your hair up over the pillow.

Amy: 11:37

No, around constantly. But even if I'm on the side, I automatically kind of move my hair like it. I started my back and it's sorry. If I start on my back and my hair is up like that. And they move to the side. It just kind of moves. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. And then at night, I just done that. It's just comfortable because I don't like anything on my face.

Katie: 11:58

Yeah, I know my hair has like literally wrapped around my neck before.

Amy: 12:02

Yeah, like drives me nuts.

Katie: 12:04

Okay. All right, I have another one here. And this one I have just recently this is kind of for like health and everything. I've just recently started to try to get the girls into it. I put it in their smoothies. It's something that we've you know, people have been using and hearing about for a very long time. It's collagen peptides. But what is special about this brand for me, it's the brand is called Suzu I think that's how you say it. There's no added anything in this collagen. This is just straight bovine collagen, which means it comes from a cow. So there's no like sweeteners, there's no flavorings, there's no artificial anything. And when I've tried that before, you can usually like It tastes bad. This just has no taste, it completely dissolves into my coffee and dissolves into the smoothies. So I'm starting to get the kids into it because it's really good for your gut. And as we know, your gut affects your brain and all of that and it's good for your hair and your nails and your skin and the whole thing like it's, there's like there's really no reason not to use it. So this is a good one. It's $30 I got this on Amazon.

Amy: 13:13

It's between like collagen and collagen protein or is that the same thing?

Katie: 13:17

It's the same thing. Some of the collagen protein powders might have added protein like like a whey protein or an aqueous college

Amy: 13:25

or that have protein in it.

Katie: 13:27

So this yes, this does have 10 grams of protein. So it shows the percentage of all the amino acids and it looks like there's a little bit of everything in there. So this might be a complete protein and it's for bone health, joint mobility, skin and cell health essential amino acid source there you go hair and nail strength and healthy gut support. Okay, so

Amy: 13:44

I have two things that I'm going to review together because they can go together when you're thinking about your morning routine. So as I was mentioning earlier on the episode all about streamline so that door to you know, I'm going back to the office now a few days a week so it's like you know, get ready get the kids out the door do a streamline routine. So this is something I haven't reviewed it necessarily on product junkies but I probably post about it a million times which is the necessar which is a natural deodorant and I have found it very hard to find a good natural deodorant I don't know about you, but I've been using necessar for the last few years and I there the reason why I'm reviewing it this time is because this is a new way that they formulated it which is so much better. The first one was like a thicker bottle and like white so when you put it on it wasn't like cakey and get in your clothes but it wasn't didn't like slide on nicely and it worked but I didn't like love the texture. This texture is it just a deodorant gel, and it just slides on so easily. It's cooling and it really in my opinion for all the natural God instead of this is the best one I've tried and it's necessary and the free you can get an answer but this one is eucalyptus, which I like because it's an but it's not. And yeah, it's great on to get it on sofa or website, I think it's first. So yeah, really good product. I've been very happy with the reformulation and the way they've done it and I highly recommend the job if you're into natural deodorant. And then the next thing I'll recommend, which is my last thing is actually very funny because it's something my husband bought that I have now started using. So you know, I love a body oil to put on your body after the shower. And I still love the OSA and I have one other one by skin and senses and those are my two like go to his however, he bought this one. It's this brand Jr Watkins. And this one I love because number one, it's a body oil mist. So if you're talking about doing things quickly, like the other ones are pumps, which is fine, but the mist obviously is quicker. So you just missed it on, takes two seconds, rub it in for one second. And you're done. This one is coconut honey. Smells so good. It's free from silicones and mineral oil. It's 98% natural says, and it's great. So he was using it and I started using it. And now I've like taken over and started using this bottle, so I'm gonna have to buy more, but it's 899 on Amazon. So highly recommend great product like get out of the shower, just spray it on smells good. Rub it in one second and you're done. So love it. That would be my last reco streamlining your routine.

Katie: 16:27

Well, my last one is definitely going to school motivated. It's, it's a company that I love. And it's I bought the girls backpacks from them. And they also have like regular handbags and travel things and everything the brand is called state, they use recycled products. 45% of their backpacks are made from recyclable goods, which is incredible to me like the inside of the lining, it says like this was once a water bottle, which is just really cool. And the other great thing is that a pretty large portion of the proceeds goes to charities that they're involved with. They're involved in Seeds of Peace time's up Bottomless Closet, they provide backpacks for children that that can't, you know, get backpacks themselves, so on and so on. So I just really love they're also like super durable, great quality, they hold up mountains from last year, it's still in really great shape. We do a new backpack just because it got nasty a camp. It's held up but it kind of stinks from the wet towels and everything. So we go you know when again this year and you know, they're the price points a little steep. It's $95. But it's it's a it's a really good bag. It's really cute. And again, I love that piece of it goes to charity. But having said that, I just want to say this is something that I saw a friend of mine posted I thought it was really smart. You know, just because you get the new backpack doesn't mean like the old pack backpack doesn't carry all the same amount of dreams and hopes and everything so kids can show up to school in new backpacks, old ones new shoes, old shoes, it's all great stuff. They all carry hopes and dreams and ambitions. So yes,

Amy: 18:05

and you know what you can you can use I have like old backpacks from the kids that we'll use for like sports or you know other things. So it's not like they're not being used. I love that. Yeah, and I feel like I've seen that brand online and they really cute designs, right?

Katie: 18:19

Yes, yeah, I'm obsessed with the kids of backpacks. I can I'll share pictures on social when we move

Amy: 18:25

okay, so that was our that was our back to school slash streamline September product junkies episode. I'm so excited to try all the products you recommended Katie and yeah, hopefully this was helpful for you all. Let us know what else you want us to review. We're continuing to look out for for all these fun new products that we're loving lately and see you next time. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 63 - Greens, Water, Move, Repeat With Ahmi Health Founder, Rachel Johnson (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 63 - Greens, Water, Move, Repeat With Ahmi Health Founder, Rachel Johnson.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And we're so excited to be here with Rachel Johnson, who's the founder of Ahmi health. She is a corporate lawyer by day and an entrepreneur by night. So I can definitely relate to that. And we are super excited to hear about her growing business and hear about the community of women that are figuring out the healthy life together. So welcome to the show, Rachel.

Rachel: 0:51

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Actually, on my morning walk this morning. I was listening to Lisa, the founder of Kroma wellness episode you guys just did because a lot of our members have been doing her five day cleanse and like trying all her products. So it's like so curious.

Amy: 1:07

Oh, that's awesome. But what is their feedback? Ben, we love it.

Rachel: 1:10

You love it. They I think, you know some of them have done at prolong, which is like, Oh, you're one which is really rough. I can just enter my friend. I've done it bombers with me. And she's like, I'm so frickin pissed. I drink her all day. I've lost like less than one pound. But she was yeah, it's

Amy: 1:29

horrible. I've done it a few times. Yeah. From us, like, a million times better and healthier. Yes.

Rachel: 1:35

And the people that are doing Kroma just like they're like we're eating like they have like almond butter or whatever that cookie butter is. And so I think it's really great. I really want to do it. I am trying to have a third kid so I'm like I shouldn't really do a write always. I love experimenting with that stuff. You know, I was a girl like 10 years ago that was doing a juice cleanse like just with my friends because I feel like I was the one person that would actually commit with them. Yeah, we're doing it like five days.

Amy: 2:03

That's awesome. Well, we're so happy to get all into it. But before we get into it, let's do our nirvana of the week and kind of take a step back and talk about what brought us joy this week or today or anything little we're big at why don't you start so funny.

Katie: 2:17

Thank you Amy. It's so funny that I'm so my, my my nirvana of the week was going to be that my inlaws are here. We're here but as Amy knows, Amy's parents, my parents, they just tested positive for COVID last night so are on their way home.

Amy: 2:36

They're okay though. Yes,

Katie: 2:37

they are. Their bodies are handling it very, very well that so they're doing I think they're going to be just fine. But we did have like some great little Nirvana moments with them this week with the kids and everything and just relaxing having dinners together. It's nice. I was loved having them here. So it's a shame it got cut short, but that was my What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:57

It's so cute. Yeah, my my dad was telling me that they went to see the Michael Jackson show in on Broadway in New York City like a couple of nights ago and Katie's daughter Maddie went and it sounded like she was in heaven thought it was amazing. And I heard the I heard the guy Wait, or when they were young and she Yeah, she I

Katie: 3:15

mean, she goes on never be the same after.

Amy: 3:20

Yeah, my dad said she waves back and I was like, okay, she's gonna be that the rest of her life. That was actually one of my Nirvana's I was gonna say because that was like the cutest thing because I can remember being that little and something like that happens even now you're like, Oh my God. That is really funny that you said that. Totally.

Rachel: 3:35

I remember catching Justin Timberlake, Timberlake. glowstick at a Encino remember it and I saved the glow stick was like on my shelf for so long.

Amy: 3:45

So funny. Yeah, that's a sweet. So I would say I've used versions of this before, but I've been like, I feel like in a little bit of a funk lately with like, I mean, I'm always working out. But just like in you know, you get into the routine. And so this week, I've been just doing a lot more walking outside because it's been beautiful out. So it is just amazing how much it changes your mood. Because, you know, sometimes you're like, you get up and you're like, you don't feel like getting your bed you get like a little lazy, especially today. It's like, you know, before a long holiday weekend, and I was just like, and then I forced myself to get out of bed. I took a half an hour walk with my dog and like, I felt so much better coming in and I was just like, um, it's just, it's just amazing how much like fresh air and the sun in your eyes and like a good walk and sweat can do for you and change your perspective. And I wasn't even like running. I ran a little bit but mostly just walking and I just felt so good afterwards. But um, so that was my Nirvana, love. Okay, what about you, Rachel?

Rachel: 4:40

Um, so my nirvana is probably the opposite of health and wellness. But I was in the Bahamas this past weekend. And I think minder, Ivana was just being at this like really grungy dive bar with a group of two other couples. We went to the Bahamas with and we were like taking shots at tequila and see like free fall and winter. So fun, grungy all these like, posters were in there and I was just like this like reminds you of like the good old days and I really I mean it's terrible but like I feel like alive and I remember like this is heaven. This is like, you know that happiness. I love that feeling yeah fun and actually went with two couples that are dating there. All four of them were recently divorced. And it's something that you know, I usually go with like married couples or others but these people were down to like YOLO have so much fun. Second Leisha life and it was like so fun and really fun for me and my husband did just like get that renewed energy from that. That's so

Katie: 5:39

great. I love that. Yeah, that's Nirvana's can be wild and crazy and fun. And that's a great things for you to like, it's so important, right? The balance I think tonight I'm gonna probably be having a couple spicy margaritas. And that will be when nirvana for tomorrow.

Amy: 5:54

Exactly. Alright, well, let's get into it. So tell us all about AMI health and how to get started and kind of like what the name represents.

Rachel: 6:05

Yeah, so AMI is a play on the French word for friend. Because that's really how it started. I had had my second baby, I always kind of let it go. When I'm pregnant. I like order bloomin onion from Outback Pizza Hut. Like I live it up. And I've never been into like health and wellness. I've always like been interested in what other people are doing. And like doing juice cleanses here and there. But nothing like I've never looked at nutrition labels or ever really feel like I could live a healthy life. And after my second baby, I had about 60 to 70 pounds to lose. And I was like shoot like I need to do something and I need to like join something. And there really wasn't a company out there that I felt like spoke my language when it came to getting healthy. There was a new Weight Watchers which are great. But I just wanted something like fresh, elevated sharing all the healthy products. And I realized like what motivated me was seeing other busy women doing it like seeing somebody that's similar to me, maybe she's like the head of Burger King or something going for a run at 6am. I'm like shit if she can do it. I know she's getting on a flight somewhere. I can do it too. So I got a group of six of my girlfriends together. And you know, we'd all get together. We're like, Oh, I gotta get healthy. And like none. Nobody ever done anything. And I was like, Guys, we're committing for three months, we're going to like eat really simple recipes, share them with each other, and just work out three days a week, because like three days a week, you can do even when you're having a shit show week and like, let's start there. And we did it really stuck to it. Like most times you would be like alright guys, I'm like going on vacation. Good luck with your like little healthy thing. Let people do that with you. I know you're sticking to it. Because you can still like, do three days a week on vacation like, yes, you're right, eating the healthiest, but you can still do something. So they we really stuck with and we all saw huge changes. Like I lost 25 pounds. My single friends were happy again, they were like back on the dating apps. Like we were just all different. And so great work, you know, and everybody started asking us like, What the heck are you guys doing? Because naturally when you start looking and feeling good people want to ask you and it's like, what the hell and they want you to say it's $1,000 Shake that they can do to. And it's just like, we didn't have a magic to it. And so people were like, well, I want to do it too. Or like I have a group of girls like we want to do it. And I was like there's nothing to do you like just get together and do it. And I finally then there were like strangers coming to me. And they were like, I don't have a group of friends to do it with but I really want to do it. And so I started setting up these groups on WhatsApp, some were like already groups of friends, but some were just complete strangers, and I like matched together. And they ended up having 16 different groups, like almost 100 Women on WhatsApp doing this together. And it was like there's definitely something here. Like I feel like the people want this they want something to start and they don't necessarily want it to end like there's a reason why Weight Watchers has lifetime members. Like you need that constant reminder to be healthy. And if you could do it in a way where like sharing healthy products like Chroma and like all the cool you know collagen stuff that's out and what do you like to use? Like that's what we all like to know anyway. And like it's kind of different than just having like a newsletter or content where you're seeing it and not really seeing people use this or talk about it in their everyday life. So about a year ago, I started that so that was like three years ago the WhatsApp group I was like holy shit like going to a coffee shop. I have a full time job being a corporate lawyer and managing partner of a law firm. And I was going to a coffee shop on Sunday setting up these WhatsApp groups. I two little kids my husband's like you are freaking insane. Yeah, like, what are you doing? I just loved it. And I was like, I feel, I was like, glad I feel like there's something here. And he's like, okay, like, I trust you, because you always like, somehow figure it out. And so about a year ago, we I finally saw, like, there was a need, and there was a market fit for what we were doing. And so I transferred to a Slack community. And now anybody can join anytime. But we do have like three big launches throughout the year, where a lot of new members joined together. So it's a community of, you know, mostly busy women, whether working or not working, just trying to figure out how to, like consistently live that healthy life together. And we do little like challenges throughout the time, we have a registered dietician that like helped us create AMI, and now we're partnering with other registered dieticians. But we have you know, a lot of content like a one week reset menu that you know, probably is like a $90 grocery store run that can really reset you for the week, and make a lot of really cool content to keep you motivated. So when you log on, you get like a member dashboard, you get access to our community. And we have a lot of like exclusive interviews to have, like people we want to talk to you and know things about and our members who have had really big changes.

Katie: 11:20

That's amazing. It's so smart, because it's all about the accountability and motivating each other and the experience and sharing it with someone and just as you were talking about, it reminded me so much of like, our journey together, Amy and I, you know, it sounds very similar to what we do with each other, and why we want to share it with people and everything. And I love that you make it very accessible. And that's part of it, all of it. Right? It's like it's accessible. It's for anyone that wants to get started on their wellness journey. They don't have to be a marathon runner. They don't have you know, it's it's easy, right?

Rachel: 11:53

Yes, yeah, we like we're very big, like, we have total newbies, but we also have like, health and wellness freaks that like just want to be out of this because they like to like, be in the know. And they and honestly everybody needs motivation. Whether you're like, I've been doing this for years. Yeah, I'm up. So and it's really nice, because some of the newbies are like, See, I need people like this, my friends are not motivated. I need people more healthy than me showing me what the hell to do. And like it's true, you kind of need in your life, people that like are a little more motivated than you. So like you told us back, like if everybody it's so true, whatever you're gonna be like, alright, well, let's just not go on a walk today on vacation. Right?

Amy: 12:35

Right now i That's so true. Because I know like years ago, you know, before Katie and I started the same thing. Like, she would motivate me because she's like, Oh, I just made this amazing salad. And I like literally I still have it like in my notes, you know, where then I'll be like, Oh, I found this cool. Whatever. Katie got me like really eyes open to a lot of healthy eating stuff. And I have another friend who lives in LA and Janine, I don't know if you're listening Janine, but she's super healthy and always has been. And I feel like she's always telling me what's new, and what good workouts to do. And just like different things. So I think it is really motivating to have people that are around you that can give you all the tips and trips and your tricks. You're right, that is true. And you're on vacation, because you can be on vacation and not have to be so gluttonous, you can have your drinks, but you can also get up early and go on a hike or, you know, make your vacation active as well. Because then you come back and you feel horrible for like, totally not paying attention. So it's like, it's all about that balance. And I also love how it's very real. Like, I know you're speaking to that just like it's like a group with your friends, which is so nice, because you just it's a little bit more casual and loose. It's not so regimented, like some of these programs can be

Rachel: 13:40

yes. And I think it's good because you are seeing like other real women, like I said, I think a lot of us are seeing on social and Instagram, like people whose 24/7 job is health and wellness. And it feels very intimidating sometimes. And for me, I just would always like write it off. I'm like that shit is impossible for me. Like I could never make a collagen latte in the morning. Like that's not my life and now I forget to do it. Or you get to college and you know, and I think you just have to like, be like wait, no, I can freakin do this I can work out you know every day and move my body I just have to figure out what works for me. And I think that's the thing like that intimidation factor of you know, I can't do it or if I do it I have to do some like 30 Day sprint and make it be everything that you know our goal is like to stick with this life forever. Our motto is greens water move, repeat. And that is what I stuck to like especially in the beginning. I'm like did I have one cup of greens today whether it's in like a side child with dinner in a smoothie? Did I drink 90 ounces of water because like before I was living dehydrated I honestly don't even know how I'm alive or like got through law school being so dehydrated And then move, let's just move your body like you said, even a morning walk on a vacation with an iced latte filled with almond milk or sugar, who cares? Like enjoy your walk, but at least go on a walk on vacation in the morning and move your body. And I think focusing on like, the simplicity of that kind of makes it feel easy, rather than the counting, and then this and then that. And obviously people have to do what works for them. And I think food tracking counting is like so important for some of our members. But I think they're like overarching, they're still having that like greens water move, repeat in the back of there.

Katie: 15:37

Yeah, I love it. It's simply like that. And then you have tell us what your nutritionist what role she plays. So or he or she I'm sorry, what?

Rachel: 15:46

So we actually, our plan is to partner with a lot of nutritionist. So we do feel like nutrition is that one thing when I talk to people? It is like the personalized aspect of it like yes, we can all be in this group together. But I do think having one on one personalized nutrition is so important. Like everybody's different, how often are you going to the bathroom, maybe you're not having a fiber. So we are now starting to partner with registered dieticians, who you know, our community has like discounts and perks with it, offer that one on one personalized nutrition to our members. And I'm working with one now who is amazing. And I have never worked with a registered dietician. Even in my three years of having on me, I always was like, my mentality, which I feel like it's a lot of people was like, I know what, like eating healthy is like I just need like work. I make excuses. And I just can't stick with it. And after even just two sessions with this registered dietician, I'm just like, I'm like, I needed to know that education behind it. What was missing, you know, a lot of us are under eating and like we're so ravenous and open all the pantries at 6pm. Because we skipped like that crucial 3pm snack that can't just be like the bar, it has to be like the bar an apple and like you really have to be scientific about filling yourself up. So it's been I'm like really excited for that next chapter of on me of really bringing like one on one personalized nutrition. And then we can all share with each other. I'm like, Oh, my dietician told me to get these like bestie crackers on Amazon. And I never heard of those. And I'm like, Oh, I actually just ordered them this morning. Yeah, but

Amy: 17:28

have you heard, we've interviewed Jen Silverman on our show twice. Jen Silverman nutrition. She's amazing. And she's given us a lot of like, good hacks and snacks and recipes. So you should listen to her. But we should also connect you with her because she'd be really valuable for your group. She has great, great, great recipes and recommendations. But yeah, it's so important to and I agree, it's like it's all about your your body and like how your body reacts to things versus just like this general plan. And I love that. You have this group and you're all sharing it. So it's not like this, like, oh, well, this is I'm not going to tell you like oh no, get this snack or get this to this

Rachel: 18:02

cool. It's like some people join. It's like, I have five pounds to lose. And like somebody else is joining. I'm like, I've 45 pounds, or somebody's joining. And they're just like, I'm freaking depressed. And my therapist told me that I need to get healthy. And so I found on me, and I feel like it is true. And you guys I know I'm probably like preaching to the choir. But like once I really started getting healthy, I feel like work got better. Like I wasn't so agitated on like, having all this stuff to do, because I had the energy of feeling good. And I feel like for me that was like, so my day is like most people I'm at my computer from like 9am to 6pm. So I need like the same energy is probably like 80% of America that are in, you know, jobs where email is your life. Yeah.

Amy: 18:54

It's so true. It's so true. And I do. You were saying this before, but just wanted to comment on it. I love that you're making this so accessible, like he was mentioning too, because that's where we're all about to like taking the intimidation out of well being because you're right, you see these people on Instagram and you're like, oh my god, that's so unattainable. It just doesn't feel relatable. And it's demotivating in a way. So we have that same ethos around this is like the real 101 And like, these are little things that you can incorporate and not to make it intimidate anybody can. It can totally be that way. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Rachel: 19:30

It's hard, right? Like, I feel like everybody's like with Jennifer Lopez has like, you know, multi million dollars and these people aren't millions of dollars, but like she's frickin working. It's hard. Like she's being very regimented.

Katie: 19:44

Ya know, it's available to everybody. It just depends on like, what level you want, what your what's accessible. Like, what it's easy for you. What are some of the challenges that you you said you have challenges within the club, the health club, what are some of the challenges that you guys do? I

Rachel: 20:01

think the Oh, like different groups, just so we now starting to partner with like trainers. So we just had a trainer do a four week strength training challenge because I could I also like hear the chatter of the community like, that's where I go to find out what people want. And people kept talking about weights and using heavier weights can be like a really good bang for your buck, because you could do 20 minutes of like, heavier weights, and really feel a difference if you're consistent. So we found a trainer that did a four week strength training program in June, for a group of our members. You know, it's like, not everybody choice chooses to do everyone. But we had about 20 of our members do it. And it just finished, it's finishing on Sunday. But like, if it wasn't for the group, I honestly, probably I would have signed up for that thing. But I would have like, probably trickled out after two.

Amy: 20:56

Do they like, and everyone keeps each other accountable?

Rachel: 20:59

Yeah, yes. And me like, I think this is like the most on a scale I've weighed. But even being in the Bahamas on a bathing suit, like, I was told I had abs I was just, and that was from the weights. Like I did not look like that before. And so I think like, all these little experiments are so good to be like shit, I really need to be incorporating heavier weights, if I want to feel tone,

Katie: 21:22

and also just like playing around with what works for your body. And this is, it sounds like a forum where your people are gonna be introduced to different things, different methods, they can figure out what feels good for them and what works for them as well. But yeah, it's so true. You see, like all over social media lift, heavy lift, heavy, lift heavy. Right?

Rachel: 21:39

Right. And you're like, Yeah, it's like, can we actually like, do it because they have these five pound weights. But are they talking about like eight or 10 pound weights? Right?

Amy: 21:47

It's so true. And I used to have a trainer Katie, and I do yeah. And she was amazing. And I did so much weightlifting. But like, I didn't really love the way it looks. I felt like it made me thicker, but not necessarily like, like, like long and lean.

Katie: 22:02

Like it didn't work for you. It doesn't work for me either.

Amy: 22:05

It didn't really. And I liked it because I felt good. But then I was like, to your point. Well, I have to come into the community. So I can see like, what can I do with like lower weights, but more reps? So maybe like a little bit? Yeah,

Rachel: 22:15

so this group of members are doing Melissa would help summer school. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We do that now. I think yesterday with a new she's switching up her monthly challenges, which again, I've never been able to stick to her freaking calendar. I'm like, I want those long, lean lines. I know a lot of work. But we all are doing her summer sculpt calendar for for

Amy: 22:40

her I didn't know that released. I look at that.

Rachel: 22:43

She switched it up a little. And we each put in like our small group on the Slack channel. What our personal goals are for from for me, I'm not going to do something every day. But I could commit to her for like five days a week and I'll mix in like a bunch of walks and like five days a week of really being consistent with her workouts. I feel like I'm gonna feel like I for sure

Amy: 23:03

it makes a difference. Like I mean, what I can do now compared to what I could do when I first started doing her workouts is unbelievable. Like I never thought I could do like the challenging ones. And now I'm like doing that I'm like, oh and like if you're consistent with most of what health like it really does. That's like the one thing that has made like I feel like the biggest difference I'm gonna check out the strength training I know she was doing

Rachel: 23:23

about the summer sculpt and ABS I think some are booty and abs.

Katie: 23:29

And then so are you introducing essentially this is in the club and so there's there's members that are in the club that maybe have never heard of MW health and now they have and you're exposing them and it's like this great new world, right? That's also very cool. Amy,

Rachel: 23:45

Amy. Yeah, somebody was like I thought she was like your local friend in Boca and I looked her up and she's like a male. She's not my friend. I just thought we talked to her like,

Amy: 23:57

I know everyone thinks everyone's like friends with her because she's so like, sweet. You feel like you know we're that resistant

Rachel: 24:02

to her because right she is like, she looks like a supermodel and she's big are coming in and trying her workouts and like Okay, those are always frickin talking about her. I'll try it for 999 a month and do this thing with rib eyes and hope convert, because I feel like she is so zen and peaceful that even my mom who's in her 70s and part of our me we do have like very a lot of age, right age.

Amy: 24:25

Yeah. Get our moms involved in that. That's so good. Like moms

Rachel: 24:29

need like my mom needs something like she thinks she's healthy but she then eats so much. And so much wine and like this has really helped her and having she's like one of our members that actually like does every menu to a tee dramatic Rachel you forgot the blackberries on page number two. You're the only one like paying as close attention. But she loves Melissa would help. She's like she does like a 4550 minute one. Oh my god. It just really Help. So

Amy: 25:00

I'm like 20 minutes

Rachel: 25:02

shortest one today. That's, that's easy.

Katie: 25:06

Let's talk about your members then what? What's the like age range? And what do you find is your demographic.

Rachel: 25:12

So I think so we are pretty much like I would say we're 30s, mid 30s To like, however, won't be a 50s 60s 70s doing it. And I think the one common denominator is like most people are really busy, whether that's being home with the kids and just not being able to get like a moment for themselves, or like wanting that community of people that are living a healthy life so that they can feel motivation, or it's really a lot of busy professionals, we have a lot. My law firm is in the startup like venture space. And so I just through my network have connections with a lot of people in this space. So it's a lot of like women working on startups that are super busy. And you know, I think everybody that's in it kind of likes to know the new healthy things like I love the idea of brand partnerships. We just did a big partnership to third love the bra company. Yeah, all of our members, their new like active wear slacks kit, so I'm hoping to do more partnerships like that, which basically gets our members free stuff from, like, all our favorite brands, and like helps these brands amplify themselves in a way that it's not just going to influencers but going to like

Amy: 26:26

real, right. It's like a real community of women. Yeah.

Rachel: 26:30

Social, you know, they just they don't have the hundreds of 1000s of followers but yeah, but we'll still get the word out

Katie: 26:37

and love it after picturing a clever with maybe a Nirvana sisters army retreat somewhere. I think that's

Rachel: 26:45

literally that Katie totally do that. Because while the Mesa on your guys's podcast I wrote down that reset plays Yeah. She says it's dying. And I'm like, wait, I feel like I need well, I need to figure out like how frickin expensive is it is

Amy: 27:00

it's expensive. And I was like, I was like, maybe we can get, maybe we can bring a whole group. If they're listening and breathe flat. We could bring a whole group of people and maybe they

Rachel: 27:11

are on social that everybody needs to go here with their friends or their husband to get a reset. Let's work on and we

Amy: 27:17

could invite some of our guests that are kind of reoccurring guests that always give us all the good nuggets like agenda man and whoever else, Kate, how cool. Oh,

Katie: 27:26

absolutely. Yeah, no,

Amy: 27:28

yeah. All right, listeners, whoever is listening. Please DM us and let us know if you want this to happen. And we can do a collab that will fit we'll start planning. I'm all about it and

Rachel: 27:38

do it. I was literally on my list. So look into it.

Katie: 27:40

That's amazing.

Amy: 27:41

Yeah, absolutely. So what are the things that you're seeing across your community? It sounds like you know, ranges broad age range, which is amazing. Is there like one thing you're seeing that everyone struggles with? Is it the motivation to exercise not knowing what to eat? Is there like a shared challenge that everyone's facing?

Rachel: 27:58

The biggest thing? And even like before me, I didn't know this was possible is the consistency like yeah, my friends are like, how the hell have you been doing this for three years? Like, I've just been consistently healthy, because like, life gets in the way you get sidetracked, you go on a vacation and forget about everything else when you come back. And like the biggest thing is getting back in the saddle. And like, you'll see our chat on Monday. Everybody's like, so back in and you always have to get back in it. You can't like I just don't let myself get into those two to three month funks that I used that used to be my life. Like I would be really healthy for a month and Ambiga busy life socks,

Amy: 28:42

but then you break the seal. Like

Rachel: 28:44

yeah, that's and I just, I feel like not doing that is so important. I also think food is like so intimidating, especially if you're not a cook or don't like cooking. And we all know and a total like people that asked me this too. I'm like, for me the biggest thing was food because like no matter what I have to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner. And like if you're busy and working like you got to get something and so instead of like ordering delivery dudes Chick fil A spicy chicken sandwich which like I want and love every single day, I'm just like walking down stairs and go to get a salad or I really try and bring leftovers. And so as part of our health club, we have over 100 easy simple recipes that are six main ingredients or less that are like curated by our community when somebody like when your friends share a recipe and they go I put this together we actually turn it into a Nami official recipe and have it on our site we have you know it's not like a long blog post of how to make the right what to get what to do and like some tips and that's really it until a lot of our community make that we also have like a recipe shares channel on slack so like you guys said like when somebody makes you saw healthy recipe you want to make people LIKE share their favorite recipes from the New York Times and from Divine dish everybody loves. Yeah, go twos, even Melissa wood and her recipes are so great. So

Amy: 30:12

it's so funny. It's so true. Because I do that with my girlfriends. I have like this chat with my high school girlfriends that we've had forever. And we all talk about a million things. And we always do that with recipes. Like I'm like, I'm making salmon tonight, like, give me the easiest way to do it. And someone's like, oh, just put it you know, and if two steps I'm like, great, and then I write it down because then I'm like, Okay, here's so I have like a note like I should I'll come into the community and just dump the note in but it's literally like recipes from Katie recipe for my friends that are easy, because I don't I'm not a good cook. So it's so straightforward. And it's real people giving it to you that are busy, so you know where you're

Rachel: 30:45

coming from and be like, Why the fuck did I choose to make

Amy: 30:49

wine later?

Rachel: 30:51

All like, you know, you can have a crazy day and still make our recipes. And I feel like that's what I needed. Because I also have never knew like you said if I was going to make a recipe is going to be like, a two hour thing or can this be like an 18 minute thing? Yeah, bringing glass of wine.

Katie: 31:06

Does your community get together? Like do you have groups that are local that you do things with? And do you find like you have different pockets of people that get together?

Rachel: 31:15

Yes, we have people all over from like Oregon, California, New York, down in South Florida. So really like everyone is welcome. We are just starting obviously with COVID Like it was interesting because I was like oh well I started this before ko read and then COVID hit I was like Oh this is nice. We like have this community that is just a virtual even though it happened by chance. And now we're starting little pockets we'll get together. We just this week on Tuesday did like a tacos and Margarita. We all just met for happy hour so far. And we shared all this healthy stuff. And now we're doing the recap it's gonna go to our whole community of like the vibrator from goop everybody swears by like this The are a girl in our community that did prolong this past week and wants to share like that she's now going to do the one week on me reset menu because you like that stuff that just like that sharing. I feel like it's so important. But yes, I would love to continue to do more like in person events. Also like collabing with other brands and maybe going to a yoga class and then to lunch. I want events that like I want to go to I feel like my work that you wanted to Yeah, my work is like very, like long dinners and all that. So like my Avi me event I want to be like okay, APM like we're all going to bed, like first meet up just to be like we all go get our beauty rise when you have a five year yeah,

Katie: 32:46

that's so funny. That's I'm learning because it just sounds like such a great place to hit. First of all, it's like you're with like minded people that you can, you know, Riff ideas back and forth with and then learn so much as well and gain motivation and gained a sense of community. It's, it's a really great idea. And I have to tell you, I'm kind of a Francophile. So I love the little French spin on it then blue health club. Very cute.

Rachel: 33:13

So, um, but yeah, what is something that people would also be proud to wear, we always have like, a summer on me hat. And I want people to just be like, that just means I'm like, really healthy, and like take care of myself or like, at least try. Like it doesn't have something.

Amy: 33:29

It's so great. So how do people so people are gonna listening to Thursday are definitely going to want to be interested in joining. So what happens like what's the

Rachel: 33:37

night you can join, I can send you guys after a code so that trainers can join with a little discount, and you just get into the community and then three times a year you we do launches. Our next launch is our plant based fall reset, where we really try and be plant based for a month. Obviously, like you can still eat meat just majority plans, and share all healthy recipes. We'll do interviews with really healthy people that are plant based. And it's just to really try and get into that mindset. So that we have a fall plant base, we have a super clean January, that's always like our really big one which is no booze, and people put their spin on it. I'm like no booze during the week or whatever their lives on the no booze, but it makes it really fun because you always want to like do something come January 1, and then we just finished our summer of strength which is a month really focus on movement. So those are our big launches but you can join any time because like our big thing is like when you're ready your frickin ready and like you want to go now you don't want to wait for like that next program to come out. Like get all our stuff you can get our one week reset menu which I show serious results if you really stick with it. It is like insane what people see from Justice one week of clean eating and it was prepared by everyone Just your dietitian. So like I'm really big on that. Like, I'm not going to prepare your menu. But I will test it out and I will tell you if I forget. Yeah,

Amy: 35:10

yeah. What? What are your what are some favorite brands that you're seeing? Like the community likes right now? Like, do you have any good favorites?

Rachel: 35:17

I was just gonna when I heard about your salmon, there's just one kind of, um, some Oh M SLM. It's like, seasoning blends. That's really cool and trendy and people are really loving that. People we have like a product RX channel where people share like, all product X people are really liking this Ithaca hummus. Yes. Have you guys know, recess? CBD drinks? I

Katie: 35:44

saw I almost bought them the other day? Yeah.

Rachel: 35:48

Careful, because I had one. Because like, Oh, I'll have one. I was like a Friday. And you can feel that. Oh, really? Really? And I was like, yeah, definitely. I was just thinking I was gonna be like, chill, and I was like, I definitely felt like fuzzy but Zen and like a good way. And so stuff like that. We also have a Trader Joe finds channel. Oh, that shares like all the best things from Trader Joe's because you know, it can be a little overwhelming just seeing everything. But a lot of members share like their favorite salad. There's like this superfood burrito that's filled with quinoa and sweet potatoes. It's in like their pre made section that somebody recently tried and loved so many.

Katie: 36:32

It's so funny. I feel like our brands are so aligned. Right, don't you, Amy.

Amy: 36:38

And Rachel reached out to us, Katie, I was like, I literally looked on your website and read all about me. And I was like, this is like such a amazing union. I don't remember Rachel, I wrote you back. And I'm like, your brand ethos is so similar to ours. I love it. And it's so it's just so nice meeting, someone that's like, has the same shared mindset, which I'm sure your whole community is like, and it's just, you know, it's just been Katie and I and like our friends. And we started this really because we were telling each other same thing, the exact same kind of things. And we're like, and other people want to know about it. So we're just gonna talk about it and like, do reviews? And do you know,

Rachel: 37:14

doing less? Yeah, I think this is my like, natural conversation. Even when a me I'm like, How are you doing it? Like, how are you working out like that? How are you eating like that? Like, I was always so curious. Because that's how I would get motivated. So like, it's natural, like, now I have on me, and people are like, how do you do on me and have your law firm?

Amy: 37:37

That's what I was going to ask you. Because being that I also have like a full time, you know, executive role to big brand, which I love. Also doing this is I mean, it's a lot. It's just a lot of work. And again, same as you like, I love it. This is my natural conversation. And this is like what Katie and I are super passionate about. So it's not it's not a job, but it's still like, you know, a lot of time

Rachel: 38:00

and like yourself, like do taxes and pay invoices. And like, it's not just talking about health and wellness like 20. Exactly, there would be like, millions of them, right, like, yeah, so a business and I think that's a lot of my friends, like, want to start something. I'm always the biggest encourager, but then they're like, damn, this shit is hard. And I'm like, I know. Right, right. Like not that many.

Amy: 38:22

It's not a it's an What's that phrase? It's not a sprint. It's a marathon. It's

Katie: 38:27

not a sprint. It's a marathon.

Amy: 38:30

Yeah, whatever that is. That's

Rachel: 38:31

my goal is like really slow and steady. Like I don't. If I'm going to start any business, of course, I want it to be successful. And I want it to be big and like, I want it to make an impact. So I'm not like, you know, playing small here. But I'm also just being realistic that this isn't my full time job. I love it. It's like feeding this passion of mine. Like I don't want it to go away. Because there's definitely been days and I'm like, should I not do this? Like should I kind of like I don't need to Should I just like close it down. And I'm like, but I like it really fills up My Cup. Yeah, we happy and I feel like, it's so different than my day job. That it's like refreshing in a way. Whereas I love my day job. I love working with founders, I love being a lawyer like I'm so Intuit and get fired up by it. And we have a team of 20 and it's just, you know, I love it. And this is just different. And if I need for a week to just put the brakes on on me, I can put the brakes on me. I can't You can't do that with your full time job. You're in it right in it. But find something that's a low lift to find something you're passionate about. I always you know, people are always asking me about side hustles and I'm like, it truly has to be a side hustle passion like,

Amy: 39:53

right it's like a side passion more than because I like I used to Yeah, yeah, like I just it's so funny when You say hustle like the hustle culture. Because I think like, a few years ago, I was definitely like hustle like, and now it's like that word bothers me so much. Because it's like that idea of like hustling where like you never rest, like, to me, it means like, you're grinding and you're getting burned out versus like, a side passion where it fills your cup to your point. So then it's like, easy to do. And yeah, you might not have all the time in the world for it. I mean, we don't but but you can and

Katie: 40:29

yeah, and slow and steady wins the race. And it's just like the consistency like keep going and and keep motivating each other. And yeah, for sure. I love it. Congratulations on on all of your success. It's really It's such a really fun, great idea. And I just think it's going to be I mean, you guys are already huge. It's going to it's going to be really massive. So that's, it's really exciting. And I kind of

Rachel: 40:54

have an impact and create a brand that like shows people what is possible to be healthy. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, that's all I want. I want to share with my friends, but I also want to share it with strangers too.

Katie: 41:05

That's amazing. And love it.

Amy: 41:07

Love that a bit. Alright, let's get into our rap session. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Rachel: Waking up at 5: 41:14

30am I know I feel like if I did this is just like a three week ago, Revelation, I have actually interviewed one of our members who would always talk on the community about waking up early. And I'm like, Okay, I gotta like talk to you about this, because I just can't imagine it. And now it has been a complete game changer and like all sometimes just wake up and go on a walk. And I took little kids and I want to be there for getting them ready and like I liked that morning of getting them ready and being there. So like, if I can be done with like, my working out and you know, moving

my body by 6: 41:53

30am that's ideal for me.

Katie: 41:56

Yeah, I completely get that right. And really quickly to and I just wanted to mention this because Amy, you said earlier your Nirvana was getting up and going for a walk this morning. And also Rachel you just said you do that as well. There is science behind like when you get up in the morning, the very first thing you do is get out in the sun it sets your internal clock and it gets your body like everything physiologically working in the way that it's supposed to naturally to be like optimized for the day so there's a lot of science behind that. There's a reason why you feel so great when you do that. So listeners go walking in the morning sun. Alright, so the next one we call it your five minute flow you just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber pinged you they're five minutes away. What are you going to do to get into that Uber as quickly as you can what are your holy grails your go to to get out the door?

Rachel: 42:45

So I'm going to use I don't know if you guys have heard of GE beauty but they are a beauty shop they have shops in Miami and Canada and they have a primer that is amazing. I use it every day. So I would use it my G beauty primer I would put on mascara and I would put on workout clothes with a jean jacket this is a new Zara crop it's So Jackie it's

Amy: 43:09

really what I was looking at it going like

Rachel: 43:13

I have so many jean jackets it is like my go to and I like some conference calls. I kind of just like put them over you can't even see I'm in workout but yeah for sure. draped over my shoulders with a big hoops like I always wear like big hoops or something so I have so many jean jackets were like scams on Instagram, by them favorite daughter that foster sisters have a really good one too. But that's kind of my five minute jam and I'm out the door. Love it.

Amy: 43:46

Love it. And how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Rachel: 43:51

I think by like following my greens, water move, repeat. I know it's back to me. But that really I know that is what makes me feel good. And if I feel good, I am like a rock star at work. I am happy with my husband. And like I want to play with my kids when I get home and like be with them and not be irritated.

Katie: 44:13

Yeah, I need to do I love

Amy: 44:15

that. Well you can tell it's working because your energy is amazing and like you just seem like you just feel really good. And

Katie: 44:22

I want to start to I have to add the greens I do the the water and the move out the greens every day. I need to remember that.

Amy: 44:29

It's okay, I have a recommendation for you that I'm going to talk about and then the next time we record product jump

Rachel: 44:38

because a lot of us even before I was like two to three salads a week I was like every day like I thought it was being held. Right. But like it makes a difference. Yeah,

Amy: 44:47

it really does. Okay, well thank you so much, Rachel for being on the show. We love talking to you. We can't wait to join AMI health ASAP and we're going to close out with a mantra from Katie this mantra

Katie: 44:59

for For this episode I think is just kind of, it's relevant because we're talking about people starting a journey with me and, you know, trying new things. And so anyway, I'll just say it. Trust the weight. Embrace the uncertainty. Enjoy the beauty of becoming. So. Oh,

Amy: 45:22

that's so nice.

Katie: 45:23

And then also I feel like Rachel's mantra greens water move repeat. Is that it? Yeah.

Amy: 45:33

That's gonna be my mind now. I

Katie: 45:34

love thank you so much Rachel says great.

Amy: 45:36

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 62 - Do You Know What Chi Means? We Didn’t Either. Breaking Down Traditional Chinese Medicine With Dr. Jenelle Kim (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 62 - Do You Know What Chi Means? We Didn’t Either. Breaking Down Traditional Chinese Medicine With Dr. Jenelle Kim.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome to the show Nirvana sisters family. Today we are sitting down with Dr. Janelle Kim. She's a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese medicine, a ninth generation doctor and herb ologists, which is very cool. We're excited to hear what that means. And the founder and chief formulator at J. B. K wellness labs, Janelle helps her patients incorporate Eastern philosophies into western lifestyle for optimal health. So I can't wait to dive in and hear what all of that means. So thank you for for coming to

Dr. Janelle Kim: 1:05

having me. I honored to be here. And so excited for our conversation.

Katie: 1:09

Well, we'd like to start off with our nirvana of the week, just a little something that brought you joy today or this week. Just a little highlight. And I'm gonna go ahead and ask Amy, what was your Nirvana that start with you him?

Amy: 1:22

Well, let's see. Um, well, I would say so my kids go to summer camp. And it's been like a while June just with the end of school and getting them ready to go to camp and all the stress and anxiety and just craziness but they left for camp over the weekend. And it was definitely bittersweet. And it's definitely quiet in the house. But I would say my Nirvana was just getting those first pictures of them enjoying and having fun. And I could like exhale and be like, okay, they're doing, they're doing good. They're in their nirvana. They're running around. They're outside and super happy. So that was definitely my highlight and nirvana of the week. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 2:05

That's really sweet. Because I feel the pressure and the stress of like saying goodbye to them on the plane, I'm sure for you. And this isn't the first year so it's probably getting a little bit easier. But to see them happy is I'm sure such a nice relief. So mine is camp related as well. The girls that for the first year are going to day camp and we dropped them off on Monday. They're there all day nine to four, which maybe isn't like the longest day for my eight year old but it is probably for research is for But picking them up. That was my Nirvana the first day and then hopping in the car like smiling ear to ear so happy. had the best time felt great about it couldn't wait to go back tomorrow. It's just like a sigh of relief. We're doing the right thing. They're good. So that's, that's nice. What about you to know, we're

Dr. Janelle Kim: 2:48

certainly all on the same page. Because right when you said that the first thing came to my mind was also my two young boys. And there is something about picking them up. I every single day, I get butterflies in my stomach. It sounds interesting or funny to some, but I have a feeling you both totally understand what I'm saying. And just see their little faces, especially the little one, you know, because he still hugs me and gives me you know, a huge embrace and tells me how much he loves me. And it's funny, because now my nine year old is kind of similar, but in totally different way. And it's so interesting to watch them, you know, at different stages, and it's definitely something I'm so grateful. It's very grounding in pretty much brings me into the very present moment, no matter what's happening in the day. So I would completely agree that that's my

Amy: 3:30

sweet.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 3:31

You have a night always nine and five. So yes.

Amy: 3:35

Nice. Yes. Awesome. I know. I love that. I have two boys as well. Yeah, they are 12 and 14, so are no more than 15. Sorry.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 3:44

No, tell me about it. I just turned nine and five. April and May so fast. It flies.

Amy: 3:52

It really does.

Katie: 3:54

Alright, so let's get into it. I'm excited to hear about this because I don't know about you AMI D I don't know a lot about Chinese medicine. And I definitely don't know a lot about our biology. Am I saying I'm saying that correctly? Right or biology or about to be in our biologist. So Dr. Ken, would you prefer us to call you Dr. Kim or Janelle or Dr. Janelle. But Janelle? Absolutely. So Janelle, help us understand, like, what are the cornerstones of Chinese medicine? And what does it mean to be an apologist? So

Dr. Janelle Kim: 4:28

those are definitely big questions, and I love them. So the cornerstone of Chinese medicine and understanding the body, the way I would describe it is understanding how everything functions and flows as one whole body right? So mentally, physically, Eastern medicine actually even gets into spiritually not so much like the outer realms of spirit necessarily, but that we connect in many different ways with our body. And it's how we, the way I like to explain it and when I speak around the world, is how we can make our body function at its optimal and flow. And that's how I would break down Eastern So it might not be exactly how everyone else does, but especially to the outside world who doesn't know so much about Eastern medicine. I love that explanation. And so then it utilizes herbal medicine, and acupuncture other modalities as well. We hear about cupping, and guasha, and all these different techniques that are now coming into the Western understanding. But it's using all of these modalities, these ancient practices that have existed for 1000s of years, again, how to make our function, how to make them our body functions, optimum and flow properly, because I always say, if everything functions and flows, even your skin cells, to your organs, to your muscles, and joints, then you have longevity, and that to myself, in my humble opinion, should be all of our goals. So I love that.

Amy: 5:44

I love that. So is it sort of like, and we're I think we're seeing we've actually interviewed a lot of people on many of those subjects. And so is this sort of like this Mind, Body Spirit, holistic Well, being when you hear the word, Chinese medicine or Eastern medicine, I think that's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 5:58

very inaccurate. I do every single aspect of it, because everything comes from, you know, Chief, everything comes from the universe. And we're a macro, we are microcosm of the universe, and the universe is a macrocosm of us. And so yes, when you kind of look at it that way, you start to break everything down. And it is very holistic in that manner. So that's where I said, you should go ahead, I think you're taking the risk.

Katie: 6:22

What is, yeah, help us understand what she is, I've heard the word. But what was amazing,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 6:28

because 20 years ago, when I started in the beauty and wellness industry here in the United States, if I said she people would look at me and wonder what in the world is she talking about? Right? So she, again, exists everywhere around us and within us, from the Dow or the universe, for those that resonate with this understanding, right from the universe came Qi first. And that's how everything breaks down, then we're speaking of the universe, and our bodies. One other principle, you're here that you'll you will hear about is yin and yang, right. And so I don't want to go too far into detail. But a greater kind of a bigger perspective way of understanding is that from chi, then came that symbol of yin and yang. And that is the dichotomy, that duality of everything in our entire world. And it's really important to understand that duality, that dichotomy of the two when understanding our human body as well. So what I mean by that is, we have our universe, for example, a very simple principle to understand, Yin and Yang is like day and night, right? Yin and Yang is loud and soft, even youngest, feminine and masculine. And within each is the other is they're constantly changing. And that's why if you are familiar, most people are nowadays, with that symbol, it almost looks like two fish, and on one side is black, and one side is white. And then they have two little eyes almost. And that literally symbolizes what I just said that there is constant duality all the time. And so now looking at the human body, we have that in our bodies as well, we have those components of yin and yang. And what I mean by that is, Yin is more substance, right? It's like our body fluids is our blood. Yong is activity. That's our chi. And so when you kind of think of it this way, you could almost imagine that, of course, the Western way of understanding, we have circulation, and we have our arteries and our veins and our pumps. And that's everything keeps moving. There's so much more of course to it. But we have that understanding, then Eastern medicine, one way to understand it is that chi is exactly what makes blood flow. That's why I'm talking to you right now. Right? So and when it comes to movement, which is one of the three kinds of EMS are the three pillars I talked about medicine, meditation, and movement, through movement, especially through chi gong, people can actually feel cheap. So it's not really something so, you know, it actually can be tangible. It's not something you necessarily see. But every single thing on this desk at tree, you know, you and I, we all have CI, and so I hope that's a easy way to understand she is. Yeah,

Katie: 8:48

I kind of took it as it's the balance of the energy and the physicality that we have within ourselves. And that's all around us. Is that absolutely kind of

Dr. Janelle Kim: 8:59

defined as vital energy, you'll see that a lot. So, so Exactly, right. Okay.

Amy: 9:05

So interesting. I never that that symbol, the black and white symbol, I think you just said it means chi, the US that yeah, the Yeah, I never realized that. I guess I've just seen that symbol in the context of yoga or meditation and sort of knew what it meant. But the way that you just described it totally makes sense with like, the, the black and the white. And it was very

Dr. Janelle Kim: 9:27

interesting. My favorite thing is to, you know, have things make sense. That's my favorite thing as well. And that's actually one of the reasons I love Eastern medicine and Eastern philosophy. It can be a little different sometimes from the ways in the western world about what we understand. But it always goes down to principle. You know, we're all human. We all are born into this world, no matter what our beliefs, what our ethnicity, what are age, all of that we all it all comes down to principles. And so I find that when I share those principles just as much as I enjoy, and it just resonates make sense. I see that No matter where I go in the world, so I'm so glad that you see that as well as well.

Katie: 10:04

Yeah. And what are the three M's that's part of your philosophy and your practice, right.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 10:10

So the three M's are basically like the pillars that hold up the whole house, right? And they are medicine, meditation and movement. And so medicine to me, is ultimately the formulation, my lab, everything that I've devoted my life to on the herb ology end, right. Meditation is actually the book I just put out, for example, it's the philosophy, it's the way of life, I call it living meditation. Right? So I'm sure we can go into that I won't go too far. But just as we sit down and practice different meditative techniques, or want to be in that certain mindset, living meditation, there principles that have been passed down my lineage for centuries upon centuries, of course, not just my lineage, but they exist, right for 1000s of years. And it's ways to look at every single moment with a certain kind of mindset, knowing that you will always have a choice, right. And so that's kind of the philosophy of life. And finally, it's movement, right ways to truly move our body, it can be any kind of exercise, but particularly movement, again, that's kind of been passed down by our ancient sages for centuries, as ways to really not just exercise externally look good, have strong muscles have a sleek body, but also to really exercise your internal organs and strengthen that chi. And so what I say are those three atoms, medicine, meditation and movement, if we incorporate those into our daily life, constantly, because that's the way it really is, then we can achieve longevity, happiness, health, balance, no matter what is happening in our life, doesn't mean we don't have down days or hard moments. But we realize that through that we can get ourselves out of it. Right? So

Amy: 11:45

I love those three pillars, because they're easy to remember. And it's something you can always think about, if you're just kind of like your Yeah, she is off or you're feeling, you know, just different, you could kind of go back to that which which I like. One of the things I was reading about when I was reading about you was that your father was a Korean monk, and raised this remote mountain raised in a remote mountain tempo, which is incredible. So I want to hear about that. But then there was something else that I thought was so interesting, where you said he taught you about, I don't know if I'm saying Right, right, but don't cheat or drunk on your thoughts. And I'd love to hear one

Dr. Janelle Kim: 12:22

of my favorite principles. So in the book, I break down kind of the practice or the way of life, the living meditation, it's my young son, just to be clear, the Korean art of living meditation, and young son translates as meditation. But to me at that living meditation, that's why I keep discussing that, right. And so the way I break down the book is into chapters, of course, but I call them keys. And there are eight keys. And those are the keys that we can practice in our daily life to achieve that constant state of loving meditation. Right. And so key number three, is absolutely one of my favorites, which is what you just said, Amy, it is stop being drunk on your own thoughts. And the Korean phrase is Don't cheat. And especially in this day and age, in my humble opinion, I think that if we all were aware of this, how much different our lives our world, our relationships, everything would be. And ultimately what it means is just like we can be intoxicated by alcohol, for example, we can become drunk, we can, we have to be aware that we can become drunk on our own thoughts, that it's, that's why I love that we started with that yin and yang. It's always a state of balance, and we hear it all the time. But again, if we stop for a moment, and really think about what that means balance, even looking at that symbol, it means every moment we have to be aware of ourselves or not, it's our choice. But if we choose to be aware of ourselves, we have to be careful that even if we feel so strong about something that we don't become, don't worry about it, we don't become so extreme in our thinking, How often do we see that, of course, we might not agree with something, and we feel know what you're doing is incorrect. But there's a fine line where all of a sudden, you're in that same boat, and you don't even know you're standing there. It's always important to expand our perspective, put ourselves in someone else's shoes, how do I know how that person feels? And I may not know completely, but if I stopped for one moment, whether it is our children, whether it's our spouse, whether it's a good friend in business, and I stop and think for one moment, I want to see where you're coming from, it does something to our minds. It's a self discipline that creates different habits. And again, at the end of the day, it's our choice if we want to take it to be dolci and become totally drunk and stuck on our thoughts. Not bendable. You know, it doesn't mean we can't be steadfast, right, of course, but just see the other side. And that's what that key number three, stop being drunk on your own thoughts.

Amy: 14:38

I love that that's so powerful. And I love the phrase that you just said, Don't become dodgy about it. Because I'm totally going to use that with people and they're not going to know what they're talking about the startup company.

Katie: 14:49

Does that also, does it also apply to like becoming drunk on your own thoughts of things that your self obsessing over like if there's something that you get Just incessantly or like picking on yourself about or thinking about something you're going through or constantly being in a negative state, is it? Does it apply to that as well, not just in regards to going back and forth.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 15:12

I really love that you say that, you know, you may be one of the first people who have brought it up in that way. So direct in that manner. And that's exactly right. We absolutely can can also have it pointing back to us that that, that negative effect, right, almost like the symptoms of getting too caught becoming too extreme. Absolutely. And so once again, we see how these tools, because that's what they are, you know, that's why I feel very compelled to share them. These are, yes, I am part of this lineage, I'm the first woman in this lineage, I'm the first to ever share it, you know, east and west, I probably should have shared Well, my father did grow up for a period of his life in the remote mountains of East Asia and Korea. It's like a movie, it's my own father. And it seems like that sometimes, you know, my mother, on the other hand, is American. So I believe, you know, I came into this world. Again, it was my choice, but but I've taken it on almost as a duty to realize that I am able to have that east west that I come from this lineage of 1000s of years, then a little bit more easy to grasp centuries of these tools that help us to see a little bit more clearly, and hopefully make them relatable to as many people as possible, you know, so I love and like you said, see. So

Katie: 16:24

it's really beautiful. And you are I love, I love the relatability that you're bringing with your books and everything as well and the one of the M's medicine, so that is where the the apology comes in. Yes. And so what kind of herbs is this? Are you using adaptogens, and things of that

Dr. Janelle Kim: 16:43

sort. So adaptions is something that I have spoken about for quite some time now. I will backtrack a little bit, that makes a little bit more sense for everyone. So of course, I was born into this, but it wasn't until Fast Forward seriously. I was a young adult that I realized, and it just hit me like that, that this is the direction I wanted to go in my life. And it was just like that you hear people say that I certainly had that experience. You know, it was that moment in time. And I had to make a choice. And that's how it felt to me. And I chose I was actually on the direction to study Western medicine. And I decided, You know what, my whole life, I've seen things and it didn't hit any kind of until that moment. I've seen so many things treated, or how can I say I want to say it properly. But I've seen so many conditions balanced, let's put it that way that people were not aware of or in my surroundings. And it kind of hit me as a young adult, I have to share this people have to know about this in this part of the world. And so that's where I kind of went into Eastern medicine and got my on my road to becoming a doctor. That didn't happen until a couple of years ago when I was about to have my second son actually holding that doctorate. But But yes, in our country, we understand Chinese medicine, I often refer to Eastern or traditional oriental medicine because I come from a lineage of Korea, right. And so of course, I've devoted myself to understanding Chinese medicine existed there before it moved into Korea, but Korea is known for certain acupuncture techniques and definitely known for advancement in herbal medicine. So just kind of putting that out there. Now in this country, we think of them kind of one in the same acupuncture herbal medicine. In East Asia, they're a little bit more while they completely come from the same route. As I've kind of already explained, you choose. And then this country you see that a bit to usually go like to the Department of acupuncture or to the Department of herbal medicine and my lineage are we definitely have acupuncture techniques, secret ones as well that have gone through my lineage, but really my family my lineage focused on that herbal medicine aspect. And so to kind of break that down a little bit, answer your question in a moment about adaptogens Katie, you know, I speak around the world about different herbal ingredients. So important. We have so many I mean, every medicine to some extent, could be traced back to plants, right plant medicine, but also super important is the understanding of formulation. And that's what I really devoted my life to. That's what my lab does. We contract manufacture products from skincare, body care, internal medicine, meaning supplements, tinctures, you know, topicals, for muscles and joints. And all of that is really based on certain formulas. So of course, the understanding those individual herbal ingredients, but like the recipes, the perfect and secret recipes that have been passed on for centuries. And so that's something I think is really important and I've certainly, I hope I've made some headway. I believe I have definitely been at kind of the forefront in the beauty and wellness industry. Having people understand that in any product. Again, internal external topical skincare haircare you can have the best ingredients, but if they're not formulated properly, if the ingredients don't synergistically work together, it might not be as good as people may think. And there's so many products out there that are just kind of put together. I don't want to say thrown together, but that's what I probably should send. Right. And so so that's kind of the understanding of herbal Medicine. And then finally, you speak of adaptogens. That's something I definitely talked about for 20 years. 20 years ago when I brought this up again, that, you know, talking about herbal medicine was over everyone's head. I mean, I started in the spa industry. You know, we were creating products that were in four seasons, Ritz Carlton's, you know, all of the your beautiful hotels and resorts. And I remember being at the forefront of natural products, which first of all, it's hard to believe there was a time that natural products like people didn't even really get it. What are you talking about? It wasn't that easy to make them. There weren't a lot of options of ingredients, herbal ingredients, are you kidding me? People would come over literally and tell me, you know, Janelle, at the time, I wasn't a doctor, this all sounds great, but I don't think people are gonna get it, I'd get rid of the Asian thing. And I would kind of just look and smile. And I went back to you know, we're all human. And I know that what I have to share, if I do my job properly, it's going to make sense. And it's going to make a big difference. And here we are 20 years later. And you know, Korean beauty is the biggest, you know, beauty industry, basically, in the world and eastern and western, it's all integrating. So it's such a funny thing. And adaptogens were part of that. It's a way another way to understand. So adaptogen adaptogenic herbs can be traced like that word to like the 1940s 1945, if I remember correctly, but definitely in 1945 1947, around that time. And it was by Dr. Lazarus, and this understanding that there's these plants that help us to adapt, because when they grow in the earth, would they have to go through their adaptability, how they survived how they lived, when we put them into our body, it helps us to do the same. Create that balance, right. And that's, again, I can go into many details, but I think this is the best way to understand it. That's what an adaptogen is it helps our bodies adapt under stress. And there's a certain category of herbal ingredients that go into this category of adaptogens. Now, why I said 20 years ago, I I wish to utilize that understanding as a way to help people understand herbal medicine. That principle exists, you know, since the beginning of herbal medicine, that is herbology. And so if we want to understand it as adaptogens awesome. And I think we're still at the very beginning of that, you know, so I use a lot of adaptogenic herbs in our formulations, again, from skincare, to capsules to tinctures you name it because of those particular herbal ingredients in that category. Their ability to help us balance they're very powerful. A lot of certain adaptogenic mushrooms I speak on a lot. I've been reading a lot of articles about that, you know, mushrooms are a hot topic. And certainly there's different ways of understanding the different types out there. But I still think we have, particularly in our country, not even scratched the surface of adaptogenic mushrooms, you know, your ratios and Chaga and lion's mane and, you know, and then you have your beautiful your stragglers, ginseng, Angelica. I mean, I could keep going, but those are some of the important ones. So

Katie: 22:57

yeah, that's why I brought it up. Because there it seems like in the last few years, it's become just more prevalent. And, I mean, you see it all over social media, it's it's gotten to be pretty trendy, and it's found in a lot of really beautiful, natural clean products and people seem to be loving it. And that's, it's really the only verb out of the herb ology that I was familiar with. So that's why I started there. But I'm sure there's a massive abundance and you actually reminded me while you're while you're speaking about her biology, I was doing acupuncture years ago when I was living in the city and it was in the summer and I was kind of like intolerant to heat and my acupuncturist I believe. I believe she was Chinese, she gave me a tea that she said if I drink this tea will help my body to like, expel the heat that I'm not able to process and it it did. It worked. I loved it. I drink it all summer, really hot summer in the city, but I completely forgot about them.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 23:58

And that goes it's fascinating like our very first minute of conversation that there's there's hot and cold to you and then Yan Yan is more cold Young is more hot, you know, and you constantly have to balance that. Sorry.

Amy: 24:12

Yeah, what I was gonna say which was also interesting just for like breaking it down for for people who don't know the space as much. I think when I hear adaptogens or herbal medicine, I think of it as like something you ingest. It's more like like supplements and things like that. And it really just opened my eyes to like wait, that's actually in beauty products and so many other products not just like things you're ingesting for your health. So that was Yeah, I guess naturally those things are in other products. I just just really think about it that way about like

Dr. Janelle Kim: 24:48

a medical doctor correlation. You can have these incredible ingredients and you hear on many different platforms or ways of understanding for lack of a better way of putting it that it does it depends on how much it can penetrate right how wash your body absorbs it. And that's where I talked about that importance of proper formulation. Because when you ingest an adaptogenic herb it goes in it literally simulates through your digestion, right? And you, you take out the nutrients, again, if it's formulated properly, and it agrees with you, so on and so forth. And so the one thing with topical, is there is a little bit more attention that has to be put on that understanding of making sure it penetrates and absorbs into the body, if that makes sense. You know, so it's even more

Amy: 25:31

of a question. And this might be hard to answer, but I think our listeners might want to know, so if you were talking to someone about, you know, using herbal medicine for different things, like could you name something that most people would benefit from? Like, it's something they're ingesting for their health, something for their skin, and like, okay,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 25:51

absolutely learn hair. And so, please remember, like I just said, it's one thing to have just one ingredient, it's another to have proper combination, right? Because, and I will answer your question, Amy. But I really, this is really important, because often, or almost always, almost always, because there are situations where taking just ginseng, for example, you know, all by itself can be so powerful, right for energy, depending on what kind of gyms and especially for women's for balancing hormones, right. So there's one that I just named, but you have to be careful, especially when it's just one herbal ingredient different than some of our drugs, if you will, because those side effects can be a lot more extreme in comparison to most plant medicine, but plant medicines are still very powerful and important. And what I mean by that is you can have Korean Red Ginseng, which is one of the most powerful ingredients, I think now around the world we notice and in Korea that is so prized. I mean, one small root of Korean Red Ginseng could be easily half a million dollars, I'm talking about how powerful it is in the body. Right, especially for for example, as being woman on the phone today, balancing different hormones, printing, energy, libido, whatever that might be so many different aspects. But here's what's interesting, if someone who has high blood pressure takes a whole bunch of Korean Red Ginseng, it could be really not so good for them because it increases your chi and raises chi. And with with a high blood pressure is a really kind of easy one to understand. That's why I'm giving this example, you can see where raising your chi strong is not really the best thing to do. And so that's where I just want to note that. So Korean Red Ginseng is a huge urgency in general is one of the most it's Ren Shen in Chinese medicine and Ren is human. And so literally, if you look at a ginseng root, they say it looks like a human being, which is really interesting. If you look at it, you can see it like the arms, the head, the leg is really interesting. And that's how herbal medicine 1000s of years ago, that's how they came up with these names and this understanding. So that's a really important one. For hair one in general, would be hibiscus I put that in a lot of our hair formulas for skin as well. I mean, skin and hair are kind of an extension. It's kind of one in the same. But hibiscus is so good for blood circulation. Right. So I mean, there's so many more, but I'm just kind of calling those that come to mind Angelica.

Amy: 28:09

I haven't heard about that already. And so that's a new one. I mean, I've heard of it, but not in the sense that you're describing.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 28:14

And then remember all your examples. Example For immune. Oh, yeah. Skin. Yes. So struggle is Angelica, you know, those are ones that you'll definitely find in the formulas that that I create at the lab.

Katie: 28:28

And I love that you're mentioning that you still have to be mindful and careful. Like even though these are natural, and they're herbs, they can be very powerful. I know not to completely go back to the adaptogens. But part of the reason why I'm so familiar with them is because I have to be careful because they affect your cortisol and I have a condition where I don't produce cortisol. So I actually can't really use adaptogens much like my other person could, which is kind of a bummer, because there's so many great products of the minute that I you know, read but but yeah, it's a good thing for the listener to pay attention to and to maybe check with your doctor first before starting something,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:04

you know, after Yeah, another great thing when you're out there looking for supplements like one thing because people asked me that often. And you know, we contract men, we work behind a lot of brands. And so we that means a lot to us, we keep that confidentiality, but you know, you kind of can see our stamp when you will see these formulas out in the world. But another great thing for people to do is to really look into who these companies are, who they're formulators are, you know because then you can start to trust a company. You know what I mean? A brand otherwise it is overwhelming. You know, there's so much out there. And if something becomes especially nowadays trendy, everyone jumps to doing it, you know, and

Amy: 29:40

so were the formulators is that noted on the packaging, because that's interesting. I always think of like brands that I like that I think have good ingredients from what I know but I've never actually looked further than like what lab is actually formulating. It's

Dr. Janelle Kim: 29:55

not always listed. To be honest. Usually you'll find if it really matters, I'm thinking of a few of our Our clients right now, usually you'll find that we really care about their formulas, their ingredients, they really have a purpose for that product. And now more and more you see it, because it resonates with people's everyone's kind of catching on, you look into their story, you know, who is the person behind it? Why are the happiness? What's their unique thing? You know? Is it high quality ingredients? That's a great one. Is it? I know some of our clients will speak on. It is the synergy between the ingredients, you know what I mean? And that is super key. So, yes, it is definitely something a good practice. Because again, I totally acknowledge it can be very overwhelming, stepping into a beauty store, a supplement department, whatever it might be, because there's just so much.

Amy: 30:42

Yeah, I was gonna ask that. If someone wants to go in their town or city to start utilizing some of these herbal medicine, what would you suggest? Like if they are already going to acupuncture would most likely that acupuncturist maybe have I know, my old acupuncturist that I used to do? I need to go back to this is reminding me had like, all these herbs raised on kind of what you needed. But like, if someone's not seeing an acupuncturist that has that as their like, where would you go to find good quality or charm,

Dr. Janelle Kim: 31:12

I mean, I'll just kind of make it as simple as possible. It is true acupuncturist will, or biologist, for example, they will look at your individual condition and really start to balance. Of course, every just like there's doctors who are so great and skilled at what they do. And there's some we're not as skilled. And so I want to acknowledge that the same thing happens with acupuncturist or biologists, you name it any kind of practitioner, right. And so that's a good way it's a little different. Like the formulas that we I create at my lab behind the brands are ones that can be handed out in general, right. So there's certain herbal ingredients like you kind of mentioned, Katie, I don't want to get too far into this. But it's important for people to understand that you know, if you have a certain cold, like, say you have a cold and what your cold is presenting as as a sore throat, well, technically, the way you treat that cold with a sore throat is different than treating a cold that doesn't have a sore throat, and you seem to have a really runny nose, I hope I'm not getting too detailed. But it's important for people to understand there's a difference in symptoms, because one cold has hot symptoms, that's the sore throat. And so you're not going to use a much a hot herbs, you know, too. And so that's how in depth herbal medicine can be. So for those types of more specific imbalances, cold is a little different, because we can put out supplements that can kind of boost immune system in general, right. That's a great place to start that kind of your acupuncturist or biologist, certain practitioners, you can then go to other places that offer it and really look into the supplements that exist and have people on the floors and what I mean is like Whole Foods, I think we have all over the country for the most part, especially east coast, west coast, right? Your your natural markets, I don't know if you have, for example, Farmer cup, but that's a great place and in the West here, that we have the I will definitely send people there when they're looking because the people I know that that are biologists, the herbalist on the floor are very, very good at what they do. It's very important to them. So that's kind of I hope this is answering the question, but you find good natural products store or if you're searching, if you don't have that option, and you are kind of looking online, do a bit of research and find I mean pharmerica is on for example, you know, I should you think I work for pharma guy keep saying your name. Because this was coming to mind right now. But that's where going back to what we just said, look into the story of that company, look into where their ingredients, you know, what matters to them. And that's how you can kind of narrow in on what works for you. And at the end of the day. Yes, so in Whole Foods. And I would have liked a bit, this is really important. At the end of the day, pay attention to how you feel is the most important thing. It goes back to that living meditation and those three pillars, you know, so often we look to our experts, which you should, in our practitioners or doctors, our yoga teachers, for example, and do that because they studied and they have, they have things to share. But at the end of the day, you need to be aware of yourself. So that means if you take what you think is the best ingredient and everyone says it's the best, and you take it pay attention week with something new into your body. And if after a couple of days or even that day, you start to have a headache. And you cannot figure out why all of a sudden, you know, I never get headaches and now I have a headache. I do not care how great that ingredient is. It's not balanced with your condition at that moment. And we really have to watch that the anatomy and then you start to become in charge of your own health. So I just wanted to say that super important.

Katie: 34:31

Yeah,

Amy: 34:31

yeah, we talked about that a lot on the show like really listening to your body and if someone is saying like oh, it's just this or it's just that don't worry about it. You're like no, I you need to. It's that mindfulness and that intense intentionality you have within yourself where I think a lot of people seem to be kind of chewed into that now, more so than before and I think people it seems like are asking their traditional doctor I was like, Well, what about this? Or what about this? You know? Because, yes, there's a lot more education out there. And there's a lot more people talking about, like attitude with the West, and

Dr. Janelle Kim: 35:11

even, you know, Western doctors, you know, yeah, you know, I don't know, I'm often on panels with, you know, Western Eastern. And I believe that any good doctor is just going to want the best for that patient, you know, and some of us, it's easier to get that advice than others. And that's, that is the way it is, you know, but in general, for sure. You see the world I, like I said, much different than 20 years ago, or maybe a little more when I first began and, you know, which harder path?

Amy: 35:38

Yeah, I hope that some of these more Western traditional doctors start getting into more, I mean, the good ones already do ask those questions that aren't outside of like, right, they're willing, because it really does make a difference. And they're looking at Mind Body Spirit, not just like

Dr. Janelle Kim: 35:58

the integrative cynics are a serious thing. I mean, it's happening, you know, and definitely, when you walk into certain Western medical doctors offices, you're definitely seeing doctors who are doing exactly that, you know, opening expanding their mind and recognizing, you know, these medicines have existed for 1000s of years. You know, it's so interesting when, because it yes, 1000s of years ago, they were not doing clinical studies. This is true. They did not put it down in that manner. But there's something to say, right? I mean, I think more and more people are seeing that now more than ever, especially after last couple of years, we've all walked through that there's something to say about these medicines that have worked on humans for literally 1000s of years. You know, so yes, there might not be this, what the Western Way, which is a very good way, don't get me wrong, having clinical studies, finding every single fact. But sometimes there's a little bit more to it. But that's holistic, also the way we look at everything. So there's three, absolutely. It's funny.

Amy: 36:54

Katie and I both had COVID Around the same time, and one of the things we both saw, I think was floating around Tiktok was, and I don't know if this is, well, I guess it's horrible, but it's different, like the oils. So it said, if you had no taste or snide, neither of us did to us. I think it was peppermint oil, and rose oil, rosemary, Rosemary oil every day in your nose and like she did it and it both worked.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:19

Stimulating to your tea. It makes everything function again. So it's an interesting thing.

Amy: 37:23

Right, exactly. Yeah. That was like, amazingly, yeah. And I

Dr. Janelle Kim: 37:27

think a lot of writers world is seeing more and more options is, you know, there's certainly some negative aspects which we're not trying to go down this path of social media and how small our world is with technology. But it does certainly at the same time, there's that duality, that dichotomy, again, of the yin and yang, are certain ways now that through being closer through technology and the internet and social media that we're learning these you just have to fact check that a bit, you know, in fact, that's one of the things that my team certainly has to say, you know, Janelle, Dr. Kim, if you can speak on this, do you agree or not? That happens a lot, actually. For different things, trends that we see whether it's a trend, or it's real, yeah. So

Katie: 38:10

that's, yeah, and nothing. And parents do that. And, you know, I feel like, we could talk about some much of this for hours. And I would really, really love to have you back to talk in detail about acupuncture. Because I think that is such a vast topic, right. And I've, I've done it, and it's worked for me, and I know so many people that have helped. So we'll have to do that another time. But before we let you go, tell us just a little bit more about what Jay JBK wellness labs does. And also, do you have Is it a branded CBD luxury skincare

Dr. Janelle Kim: 38:43

JBK wellness Labs is not named after myself, which many people think is named after my great grandfather, those are his who was an incredible practitioner of herbal medicine, and acupuncture for that matter. And we are contracted manufacturers, which means we make the products behind the brands. And again, I kind of touched on that already. But you know, they're our clients are carried in your high end resorts and spas, to your whole foods to now actually they're having like prestige and luxury departments and target and Walgreens. And so it's an interesting way for exactly what we're talking about to be, you know, to be available for more people, which is kind of neat. So brands kind of spanning all industries. And so that's what we do in everything that we do is rooted in that understanding of herbal formulation, of formulation of products in general clean beauty, of course, you know, natural health products, of course. And so that's basically what JBK what we do, so we're not a brand, so we're behind brands. And so when you talk about the first ever Yes, I created the first ever CBD luxury skincare. I mean, basically I started the CBD industry myself in my lab with the people who started CBD back in. My first son was almost ready to be born so over 10 years ago now, which is a long time in the cannabinoid industry. And that's a whole other conversation to network. that I jumped into right away. But then another thing where I thought, you know, this is going to be something and I'd rather be educating about it properly. But I didn't really want to be like the queen of cannabis, you know, so, but an alternative. And so so not to go too far down that road. But that's so JBK we do a lot in the cannabinoid industry because we kind of helped to start it. So we were the first to make the sav muscle and joint role on so on and so forth. And all these, it's a beautiful thing, because every time someone comes to us to make formulas, it's always unique, it is truly the most amazing thing. So we, they come to us, oftentimes with an idea, they'll come to us with formulas that they kind of want us to improve upon, for example, or they'll come to us with a really important ingredient. I mean that and that's just to name a couple of examples. And then we formulate and then we produce the products. And that's the headquarters are in San Diego, right where I reside. Right now, we have a lab in Orange County. And actually, we have one in Portugal, in Europe for our European clients. So yes, and we just started actually, we're really excited about this, and I'm happy I'm remembering to share, because for over 20 years, I've been in this industry. And when you when I say contract manufacturing usually have to have higher minimums. So we don't have to get into all the details of it all. But in order to work with us, or to make custom products, you have to order a couple 1000 of one product at a time. And that's not easy for everyone. And this has been on my mind for a long time. And so over the last couple of years, and one of the things that, you know, during the pandemic, I don't always think of it this way. But it's the truth that we were able to create a JBK was a private label a white label division. And that means a lot to me, because what that means is more and more people are able to put their brand on some of our most favorite formulas that I've created over 20 years of my lab. And so, you know, that's kind of a big thing. And so I'm really excited about that. That's kind of a new thing that we've done in my lab. So

Katie: 41:54

congratulations

Amy: 41:55

for future when we come up and your bonuses, maybe the product.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:03

I want to create a formula to help women balance their, you know, emotions, balance their hormones, to have more energy, whatever that is. That's exactly how it starts. And people trust you and then that's how it goes. So

Amy: 42:15

I love that and what is your book called again? And where can people

Dr. Janelle Kim: 42:18

you my book is called the young son, the Korean art of living meditation. It's kind of a long one. That's why I just remember Dr. Janelle Kim, living meditation, bright blue simpler. It's basically through Penguin, Random House and Watkins. And so you can find it on the Penguin Random house.com website on my website, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, basically, anywhere books are sold. So I'm very grateful that has come out, you know, just in January, so

Amy: 42:45

very excited. Thank you, Amy. Hi, congratulations. Okay, so getting into our wrap session before we close out. Janelle, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? I can. That's that's a hard one at my I do have so many.

Dr. Janelle Kim: 43:03

If I had to pick one right now, one of my favorites is remembering and understanding that true beauty does come from the inside out, you have to use very clean important products topically because it is our largest organ, our skin. But also we really have to pay attention to improving our condition internally, increasing our circulation, increasing our chi. And of course, to me, that means supplementing with herbal formulations. You know, being aware of my body knowing when to take certain ones. So I don't want to go too far. But yes, it's inside out which we're seeing much, much more in our beauty and wellness industry right now. So I'm so happy for that.

Amy: 43:41

Yeah. 100% Yeah, that's great. Okay, the next one, we call our five minute flow, which I guess could contribute to your CI. But here's the scenario. You just got out of the shower and dried off and Uber pings you and says they're five minutes away. So what is your quick beauty routine?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 44:00

That's funny, right? My locks up. I have one

Amy: 44:03

you just got out of the shower and dried off. And Uber just alerted you there five minutes away. So how do you you know, what's your quick beauty routine? What do you put on what are your kind of go to? And I'm shaking my head or that's every day forget?

Dr. Janelle Kim: 44:17

Yeah, that's called children. And podcasts Even my kids had to camp at 9am which is exactly when we were supposed to be on so that was literally my morning. So I do I get ready in five minutes. And that's just the truth today. We're lucky I put a little eyeshadow for you ladies to look, you know, all dressed up. But the i Everyday I use my herbal toner. It is one of the most important products I think I mean, again, that's so hard. I have the whole I'm Korean beauty right so I have the whole every step. But I always use a toner in the morning if I don't work out rather than just washing my face. There's no alcohol, it's all herbs. So it's just basically, you know, cleansing with a cotton pad, but at the same time all those good herbs onto my skin. So that's what I start with. And then honestly, I like a little concealer because it just makes me look a little brighter and a little natural blush. And I go on with my day. Like literally that's that

Amy: 45:11

and are these all brands that you make in the lab so it's not like a brand skincare for sure. Probably

Dr. Janelle Kim: 45:17

another one I love it's my later again, that's the I keep making a joke. It's the Korean beauty that is a Korean beauty hack and I very much stand by exfoliation is key. And so those are all products that I create my bathroom looks like a lab literally I have a little bottles everywhere. But as far as makeup, we we keep wanting to go down a direction are a little bit too busy. So I do I go for brands out there and the ones that I like, right now. I like RMS beauty. So very clean. I find that you know I don't like to reapply like don't look at myself in the mirror throughout the day because I figured what what in the world can I do anyways? This is how I

Amy: 45:55

layer your skin's unbelievable so

Dr. Janelle Kim: 45:59

yeah, like a little blush just because I'm all skin tone. And that's about it. So and then maybe a little lip gloss. Some

Amy: 46:05

love that. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily your bond I

Dr. Janelle Kim: 46:09

love by the way, that that is what you call your entire platform on everything that you do. And so how to maintain that is through living meditation. I mean, we're totally on the same page living meditation is the ultimate goal of reaching that state of Nirvana that state of honestly balanced, we started this way and I suppose well, and this way that you know, everything comes from the doubt and for those who are not familiar with the Dow, I suggest that you become familiar in some way because it is a really powerful and was people love it. And it really is just the universe, right? And the universe is everything and nothing. It is literally that Enzo circle which is on my logo. It's that like kind of brushstroke and that's to me, also is nirvana. Right. So to that state of from nothing comes everything and from everything comes nothing. And so I am able to constantly keep purifying myself creating good habits, having a self discipline through living meditation, which is why I put it in the book.

Katie: 47:05

That's beautiful. I just want to say before we hand the mantra over to Amy that you can just you really exude Janelle such kind of peace and joy and you're glowing from the inside out. So you are living proof of everything that you can say. So we're really grateful for having you on. Thank you so much for for being here with us today. And I think our listeners are gonna love everything you taught us and, and really, I would love to have you back and we can dive into it. I'm

Dr. Janelle Kim: 47:32

really grateful to be here. It was a wonderful conversation. I would absolutely love to come back. So I hope that was helpful. That's for sure.

Katie: 47:39

Was Thank you. All right, Amy. What's our mantra we'd like to close with a little something to end on.

Amy: 47:46

Yeah, so I don't know if this is a mantra or saying something I found on Jay Shetty, Instagram, but it's very appropriate to what we were talking about specially we were talking about being drunk on your thoughts, which kind of stuck with me. So here it is. If you want to be happy, don't take stuff personal. Let stuff go. Let people be focused on you. Your mental health, your spiritual health, your well being physically and financially.

Katie: 48:11

I agree. Yeah, yeah. All of the above agreed, right.

Amy: 48:15

So thank you so much. Thank

Katie: 48:19

you.

Amy: 48:20

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 61 - Product Junkies July Edition - Things We Are Loving Right Now (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 61 - Product Junkies July Edition - Things We Are Loving Right Now

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

welcome back to another episode of Nirvana sisters, product junkies, it is July and we have some fun reviews for the month. So I'm going to kick it off to Katie, we're just gonna get right into Oh,

Katie: 0:41

I didn't expect that. I thought you were going to start us out. Okay. I'm going to start I'm going to start with food because Okay, I have had this product. It's been around for a while. But I just really want to give them a shout out because I'm a dairy free girl. And being a dairy free girl, you still love cheese. You still love yogurt, you love all the things but you can't do it if you're lactose intolerant like I am. And all of these brands have been trying for years to make a good like copycat. And there's finally our legitimate brands that do and it's Kite Hill. Kite Hill is my like number one go to and I just know that. It's like the word needs to get out there. If you can't do dairy. They have dips. I'm a dip person. I love a good oh, I've had their damp the Kite Hill. Yeah, you love a good caramelize or French onion dip. They have it Suzuki, they have a ranch and now they have a queso. That tastes so much like real queso. It's insane.

Amy: 1:46

You Oh my God, I didn't have a sofa. You can eat

Katie: 1:49

it cold. You can eat it hot. It's like I feel like a dairy eater again. So Oh, and also, I have to try to make butter. They now have a plant based butter that I bought last week. That's really good. And my cholesterol is kind of high lately because of my genetics. So it's good for me to switch to the plant based butters. So anyway, it's not the most exciting product review, but I just felt like I really needed to shout it out. Yes. No, I think that's really refreshing and just nice to be able to like enjoy dairy again. Even though it's not dairy that sort of feels like to

Amy: 2:21

me Yeah, I need to I I've had some other chips. I've had the French onion and there's like another one. That's good. I can't remember what flavor it is. And I forgot I haven't gotten those in a while. Oh ranch. I think they've branched up that's good. And then I used to have their yogurt. What's the nutrition like? Like, because usually they're pretty low in sugar

Katie: 2:39

too, right? They're actually Oh, they also have a spinach and artichoke dip. That's the one that I tried recently that like blew my mind. It's it's really clean. It's awesome. And they're all made from almonds. Like some of the products that you know like the mica knows brand is made from cashews kettles made from almonds. They do better with almonds and cashews. So for example, Spinach artichoke dip, it tastes so spot on it's almond milk, spinach, coconut oil, artichokes, modified corn starch, salt, garlic powder, yeast extract, onion pattern, natural flavor, locust bean gum, lemon juice concentrate, guar, gum and cultures. So it's it's like it's the common stuff that you're seeing in a lot of these products. I think without a lot of the garbage. It's dairy free, soy free, gluten free, vegan, kosher, non GMO, no artificial colors or preservatives, and made from live and active cultures, which means it's going to have some probiotics in it as well. So I think it's good. Okay. And, and, like, calorie wise, it's like, also really nice and guilt free. I mean, you know, not that it matters. But for two tablespoons. It's only 30 calories. It's like two grams of fat. It's no saturated fat to carbs. It's easy. No sugar, one gram of protein. You know, it's like, it's, yeah, that's going on. Around.

Amy: 3:53

Okay, good. Love code Hill. Good. Good. Good product mention. Okay, the next one I'm going to mention. We talked about it, I said it I was hinting this to earlier today. And I've been using this for months, but I was saving it to tell you about it. And it is athletic. Oh, I know. I've converted myself. I mean, athletic greens is all over the place. I feel like I've seen it everywhere. And I never tried it. And I was listening to Andrew Huberman who I love. And he talks about athletic greens all the time. And he's been using it since 2012. Those of you has so I always hear Andrew Huberman talking about it on his podcast, which is the Hubert Huber Minh Lab, which I've spoken about before. He's a PhD, neuroscientist professor in the Department of neurobiology at Stanford. So I trust everything he says, and he's his podcast, just as an aside is so good because he breaks down really kind of complex things into like, ways that you can understand and he always provides context to an issue he's talking about and then gives you really good insight, recommendations, etc. But anyway, he always talks about ethics. greens. And so finally I was like, Alright, I gotta try it. Since I've tried it, I've had it everyday sense and how do you feel on it, it has really helps me I feel so much better. Because what I've been doing is well, just for everybody to know athletic greens, if you go to athletic greens.com, you can read all about it. But you can do it on a subscription. Or you can just buy a one, you know, one time package, I bought a subscription thinking I would just cancel it if I didn't like it. And the subscription, which is $79 comes with the starter kit. So this jar, which I like, because you have to you have to keep it in the fridge. So this jar with the scooper. And then it also comes with this, like shaker. So I just use this every day, I have a system, which you know, I love a system and travel packs, which is great. So I'll bring it with me on my trip next week. So I've been feeling really good on it. Because what I've been doing now instead of drinking my coffee, first thing is I get up in the morning, and I have athletic greens. And the reason why I like it is because you only need like eight to 12 ounces. So it's not like a whole thing of water, it's like maybe like a half a jar of water, you know, 12 ounces, whatever. So I do that. And then I just feel like very hydrated and like good. And then I have my coffee maybe then or an hour later. So it's like a good start to my morning. So I really like it then. But it has every mineral nutrient you could need from greens. And so especially like if you're traveling, it's like the one thing that he talks about. And I've heard other people talk about it too. It's like the one thing they bring with them because they know they'll get all their minerals. And so you know, you're getting everything from it in one place. So even if you have a salad and stuff like that, whatever, but at least you know, you're getting it all in one place. And it's also I believe it prebiotic and probiotic. So my digestion has been much better on it, which has been a big one for me, because I never find anything that like really helps with my digestion. And this has helped with my digestion. So I've been taking it like every day for three months. I haven't missed a day. Well, I was I enjoy it. I think it tastes good. Yeah, I was looking back and I've gotten it. This is like my third month. And I'm almost done with this. And my fourth one is gonna is being mailed today. So I really like it. It's easy, it tastes good. I mean, it's like not sweet, not, it's just kind of like, it just feels good. It's very hydrating. And I've just gotten into the routine. And what I do is I just keep the jar in the fridge like in this one spot that I have. And then I use this shaker like the thing that comes with it every day. It's like a plastic bottle. You just put the greens in, put the water and shake it and drink it. And then I just clean it right there and put it right back in with like a little water. So it keeps it cool. And I just do the same thing every morning. It's like no big deal. And I love it. It's actually been making me feel a lot better.

Katie: 7:42

I have to tell you, I've used it. I was ordering athletic greens, like at the very start of the pandemic when I got into podcast and DAX Shepard's podcast. So they advertised, so I ordered a time. And I liked it. But I had some other stomach stuff going on. So I didn't we weren't simpatico at the time, but maybe I need to try it again. Give it another go.

Amy: 8:04

Yeah, and like I think these things are interesting because I think certain things work for some people and certain things don't like I remember we were talking about in another one of our shows the secara metabolism powder, which you love. I used it and I didn't like it. I mean, it was like fine, but I didn't it didn't make a huge impact on me where you love it. So I think it's just like you have to find the things that are right for you. And I was like, super excited to find something that actually like, I can feel a difference. And I feel better on it when I drink it. And my digestion is much better than it used to be. So that's huge. And then I feel like I'm getting all of the superfoods and vitamins and minerals that I need. So huge support. Athletic Greens, right? Oh, so the subscription is $79 a month. But if you do a one time I think it's 99. So I just do this subscription because it's cheaper and then you don't have to think about ordering like a jar that they send you and it's great. I like the jar Yeah, it's nice and I like the scooper. It has like a good weight to it. And I like the shaker like it's all good. So I'm really excited about athletic greens. So that's, that's that one.

Katie: 9:08

What do you got? Mine is a supplement kind of ish. It's electrolytes. The brand you know the brand I've given it to you before, but we haven't talked about on the show yet element T or element. It's I love this brand of electrolytes. It's actually was created for the ketogenic community. I can't remember exactly the name of the people that started it, but they did that because if you were doing keto, you had to have like more sodium. It's just like keto it's really important to watch your electrolytes. So this group started this brand of electrolytes and it's 1000 milligrams of sodium which is high for electrolytes. Most electrolytes don't have that much 200 milligrams potassium 60 grams of magnesium and they come in all of these great flavors but what I love the most about it is that it comes in raw and flavored one because of favorite ones typically have.

Amy: 10:01

That's the one that yeah, the flavored ones. The one that you started like

Katie: 10:05

super delicious, but they always have like stevia, which a lot of people do find with stevia, I don't like me and sugar alcohols or whatever, it's just, it doesn't match. So they have an unflavored one that has no stevia, and it's just the straight up electrolytes which I love it and I subscribe to it so I get it every other month for $39 And then if you just do it one time, it's $45 but it's a huge box of 30 packs so you have you eaten up one a day and they have grapefruit salt. I feel like you would love that flavor. Yeah, oh great. Salt citrus salt, watermelon, salt, orange salt, raspberry salt, chocolate salt seems kind of weird but whatever. Lemon habanero mango chili. So yeah,

Amy: 10:54

yeah, interesting. I didn't know they had all those flavors. I actually just got the unflavored one that you got me on, which I love and whenever I'm feeling dehydrated, I drink and it makes a huge difference. That's yeah,

Katie: 11:04

great. Good. lm n TLM. N

Amy: 11:07

T. Great. Okay, so getting into beauty a little bit I have a few things. So my first one is this Tom Ford lipstick and gloss which are so beautiful. They are like the perfect nude. You know we're always looking for the perfect nude. I found this I think I saw it on Tik Tok when Mikayla recommended it a few months ago. I think it was her. And this lipstick is called blush nude. It's a soft pink beige. It is like the best color it's so luxurious too. It feels so good on your lips. It's so moisturizing. It's $58 so a little pricey for lipstick but honestly this lipstick lasts forever so it's such good quality. And I love the color and then you match it with the glass Luxe lip gloss and this color is called in the buff which is like a nude with a gold pearl if you can see this and that combo it is like the most gorgeous nude and this is $58 as well. I wear it I get so many compliments all the time people are like what are you wearing? What is on your lips it's just such a good year rounds great nude and also the packaging is already a full on like heavy and luxurious you know highly recommend Do

Katie: 12:32

you know if they have like different various nude shades of that same one Do you know because you know some like some nudes are it depends on your skin tone to find the right nude like I wonder if Yeah, I could wear the same nude that you could wear?

Amy: 12:46

I don't know I mean they definitely have like a lot of lipstick colors and I'm sure they have other nudes I just this is the one blush nude. That seems to work for a lot of people because I've seen a lot about it online but there's probably other nudes as well. And then the the the glosses they have tons of colors too. But this one in the buff pairs really nicely.

Katie: 13:08

Check it out. So yes, I love it. Yeah. All right. Well, that was a high I have a low high low little drugstore find. Oh my god, I love it. That's great. So this is L'Oreal True Match Lumi lotion, natural glow enhancer. And it's 1599 I think I actually got it CVS for like 1399 this is on alters website that I'm looking at right now. It's a great little bottle of like very highlighting luminous lotion, and I actually use it as highlighter on my cheekbone. But then like if I'm going out and I've got a you know, like a tank top or something I'm like I put it on my shoulders and I put it on my chest like lotion. You can use it either way. It works really really well though, as a highlighter, and it's a nice consistency. It's really pretty. It's like I don't know it's kind of hard to see here. But this is light glow. Number nine Oh,

Amy: 14:16

okay. I think I have that one. It's so funny that you have that because I literally just bought that one and the darker one because I wasn't I bought it online so it was like hard to tell. But that's interesting that you use that as a highlight and on your body. I never thought to do that. I've just used it on my face just Oh really? Like always. I wasn't Yeah, I just like one day mixed it with my sunscreen and used it just as a moisturizer idea, but I guess you could use it really

Katie: 14:43

funny. It's I mean, I don't even know like I didn't even realize that it was considered a lotion until I looked at it today for this exact purpose. I thought I bought it for a highlighter but it says instantly hydrates eliminated this for an all over fresh, healthy naked skin glow. So There you go.

Amy: 15:01

Yeah, I'm gonna use it as a highlighter though so now that I got the two colors that's actually good because maybe I'll use like the one of them as a highlighter and one is like, you know exactly like the darker one for my body and 100% I never thought to put it on like your chest and shoulders. Yeah, it's a good idea like, and it feels really good feel not at all.

Katie: 15:19

It's it's very light.

Amy: 15:21

Yeah, that's a great drugstore. I love that. Okay, next, I put this on our Instagram a couple of weeks ago when I was stocking up on all my favorite products. And I always you know, as we love beauty shamans, one of our favorite brands, so I tried her soul veil SPF 25 Because I needed a new moisturizer. And it is delicious. I love it so much. It's $75 and it's the it has such a good feel to it for moisturizer specially for the summer. It's not heavy, but it's not light. It's like that perfect texture. And the smell is so good. Again, it's not strong, but it's just like this light smell I honestly every time I put it on my face I like put it in my hands and smell it it's like a little and then I put it on my face. It's just so good. And I was worried about the 25 because you know I'm super into some protection and I thought 25 wasn't enough, but I actually recently went to the gym and I was like Is 25 okay to wear and she's like yeah, it's fine to wear on a daily basis she's like, but if you're going to the beach or like you're outside all day like playing golf or at the pool she's like wear something more but she's like for an everyday moisturizer 25 is totally fine. So I was like Okay, great. So anyway, I highly recommend that if you need a moisturizer with an SPF. I also love which we've talked about a million times Supergoop but Supergoop is just the sunscreen so sometimes when you just want to like have one stop and moisturizer and sunscreen together it's like hard to find a good one I know Elta MD we've talked about a lot too but this one I'm obsessed with

Katie: 16:52

I have to get it I love this because I feel like so I have drugstore fi and so I feel like you are definitely on the high end today and I'm on the low end Yeah bringing you both spectrums listeners. My next one is another drugstore find in fact I have found it at the grocery store. And recently I my hair has felt so good. It's been really really silky. And I don't I mean I didn't necessarily do anything differently other than I've just been using this religiously for some time now. So it's the brand is Haske and this particular product is a keratin protein smoothing hair oil and it says it softens and renews its for damaged over processed hair which obviously you know, I get my hair highlighted. It's alcohol free and instantly absorbing and it's just like a really nice finishing smoothing oil in the littlest amount I mean I really use like barely even what's the bride HASK h a s k so I use this I use scene haircare we love our seen haircare right shampoo and conditioner. I'm like, religiously. That's all I use. And then I use this and I can just

Amy: 18:11

and you use that when you're hurting wet or dry or like

Katie: 18:14

it's like a finishing oil. And I don't have to do any just put it on your end. Yeah, I don't even I don't blow dry it. I don't curl it anymore. It just like falls with like a nice, smooth wave. And sometimes it's that and you reapply it every day just to like to be hydrated or you don't need to. But if I need to I don't like like right after I get my hair highlighted. Yeah, I

Amy: 18:36

probably use it more. Okay, and you got it.

Katie: 18:39

I've heard this one in particular, I think literally at the grocery store, but I have bought it at CVS before I've seen it in a ton of places. It's $2 $2 $2 I swear up $2 No kidding me and it works. It's legitimate. That is like you know, Moroccan oil brand like more expensive. It's it's really good. It works.

Amy: 19:01

Okay, I gotta try that. Love it. Okay, well I do have a good drugstore finds it as my last beauty category product. So another brands that I love, which is sun balm, love is the sun bum face mist. That's funny, refreshing face mist mist sunscreen, broad spectrum, SPF 45. Do

Katie: 19:22

you have stairs and I almost brought it for review.

Amy: 19:26

So funny. Don't you love it? It's great. It's so good. So for our listeners, it's like this 3.4 ounce bottle. First of all, it has that some bomb smell which is like that coconutty whatever. Smell and I just love that it's a mist because it almost feels like you're putting like a rose water on your face and it's just like such a good refresher. So I always have it in my beach bag or like if I'm out you know at the pool or something and it's just like cool and refreshing and gives you that coverage and you don't have to like reapply sunscreen. I love it so much. So anyway, it's some bum 59 denying and it's just yeah, refreshing, faceless and you know what? SPF 45

Katie: 20:04

And using that on the kids all week this week for camp because it's, I'm getting them out the door in the morning. The last thing I have time for is like smoothing out the face lotion sunscreen. It takes forever. So I've been splitting this on them and they're totally fine. It's not bothering their eyes. I mean, it's made for the face of course, but it's kid friendly to Ray just

Amy: 20:24

spray it on there and go. Yeah, you don't have to rub it in. So nice. Love. Alright, my

Katie: 20:29

last one is another drugstore find. It is by NYX you know that brand NY X? Yeah, and it's their jumbo eye pencil. And I have it in two shades. This is like a pearlescent white that I put on, you know, like the inside and what do they call them area? The water? Yeah, like inside. Right, exactly. And then also like right in here right where your eye corners. And then I have the most beautiful deep purple that I use as eyeliner and kind of like smudge it around as like an eyeshadow. But the font they have, like really fun colors and pinks and purples and greens and blues. And you could get really funky with it. But super cheap $5.50 and at last I worked out one night and it lasted the whole night. And it just felt like gave my eyes a good pop and a sparkle. So it's a fun one.

Amy: 21:25

Yeah, I love that brand that they have great stuff. What's that color called?

Katie: 21:29

That was white color is called. Not the best name cottage cheese. They could have gone with anything and they went with cottage cheese. Yeah. But it hasn't got a nice.

Amy: 21:48

Alright, well, that's easy to remember. Oh yeah, that's really

Katie: 21:55

my purple one in the other room. But the purple is really beautiful. It's like a deep eggplant purple. Whoo. Okay,

Amy: 21:59

so well, we'll put that in the show notes. Because a good purple is hard to find now Good to know. Okay, well, my last product is like super random. But it's a really good hack. So when I went skiing over spring break, I bought this. You're gonna laugh. I bought this boot bag. from Amazon. It's a boot bag. And it's really Yeah, like it's literally for ski boots. So you put your ski boots on the side and you put your ski clothes in the middle. And it's a backpack, and I bought on Amazon, it's 5999 Okay, $60. And the materials like on I mean, it's like cannot rip, it's so tough the material and the brand is called outdoor master. So random. I know, because I just bought it and I was it's not like cute. I mean, they have like Navy, black and whatever. It's not a cute bag. However, it is the best replacement for toiletries and shoes. So what I've been doing so I used it in when we went skiing, like what it for what it's for. But then we had another trip for like, I don't remember like a weekend or something. And I just threw all of my because for me shoes and toiletries are like the worst thing to pack. They never fit. It's so annoying. I can never fit in. I'm always carrying on. I never have the right bag. So what I do now is I put all my shoes on the sides here. And they fit because this is tall. And so you can get like a couple pairs of shoes and each side depending on what you're packing. And then in the middle, I put my toiletries and I just stack them up. And it's like the perfect bag shoes and toiletries and I just bring it on the plane and you're like on a weekend trip. Can

Katie: 23:33

you close up the sides or you can't close up the sides? Like like when you're when you put your shoes in? It's inside. They're not like sticking out. Oh, yeah. Very cool.

Amy: 23:44

It's it's a huge deep pocket like massively deep. So you put it in here and then yeah, just zipper it up. And then there's also on there's a lot of like pockets. There's also a pocket here, like on the side. So what I do with here is I'll just like throw in like what we were just saying before like an athletic greens packets or like just different things I need. And then the middle pack getting in there. There's a pocket up top here for whatever, cell phone passport, stuff like that. And then this sorry, this is loud mic, but has this whole deep section. But the reason why it's so good is because it's all so you can really get a lot in there. And so I actually used it to go on a weekend trip and that was all I brought. So I brought like a few because it was like a beach trip. So I just brought like a few things that I put in the middle through my toiletries on top threw some shoes in and I was good to go. So anyway, it's such a good hack to use it as a traveler like

Katie: 24:35

also. And it's a backward it's Oh, it's a backpack, but also I feel like it would sit nicely on top of your suitcase as you're like rolling it through the airport. It looks like it has like a nice black bottom when it could sit there nicely. Yeah, but I like that it's a backpack

Amy: 24:50

and it's got these pads for the back. So it's um it's comfortable because I've I've patched it before and it's been pretty heavy but it's been comfortable. So it's like a funny shape because it's like like a kind of like a triangle you know like a half triangle so it looks a little odd but who cares it's one of those like really convenient good things so anyway random one but I thought as people are traveling and they need like a weekend bag it's a great one or carry on that okay all right well that was fun good product junkies Jul episode talk to you guys in the next one have a good day we thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 60 - The Dirty Skincare Secret We Bet You Didn’t Know About With Liz Whitman, CEO And Founder Of Exponent Beauty (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 60 - The Dirty Skincare Secret We Bet You Didn’t Know About With Liz Whitman, CEO And Founder Of Exponent Beauty

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters, Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And we are back and very excited to meet Liz Whitman, who is the CEO and founder of exponent beauty. This is the first of its kind, self activated and sustainable skincare solution. And we're super excited to hear all about this innovative brands product, and it's hot off the press, because it just launched in April. So we are so excited to meet you. Welcome to the show, Liz.

Liz Whitman: 0:58

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Liz is an entrepreneur, she's

Amy: 1:02

launched many brands, and she's really carved a space in the industry. So we're super excited to hear more about all of your extensive background in beauty and wellness and self care right up our alley. But before we do that, we want to just take a step back and do our nirvana of the week, which is really just a moment that brought you joy this week. We just like take a step back. Before we get there. I will lead to Katie to see to hear about your nirvana. Great. Thank

Katie: 1:28

you, Amy. I think my Nirvana this week was, was it yesterday or the day before I took my four year old to the beach. She's been out of school all week, and my eight year old is still in school. And you know, like she's doing camps and everything that summer. But this week, she's home and we've just had some really nice time together. And we went to the beach, the two of us we build sand castles and collected shells and had a little picnic. And it was really fun. It was so sweet. So that was that was mine for sure. What about you, Amy? Super fun.

Amy: 1:58

Well, mine I would say was this morning, because I think I've mentioned this on the podcast before when we had our dermatologist on, but I have gotten like many basal cells over the years, I have really sensitive and I guess prone skin to basal cells. So I do a skin scan every six months. And I was just posting on our Instagram channel this morning that everyone should go every year to get a skin scan. But I go every six months. And I had a good report this morning. So that's just always exciting to like, you know, go through the skin scan, I have to make sure everything looks good and like not have to worry. So that was my good news of the day. So I was very happy to have good skin, which I'm sure you know all about Liz, what about you?

Liz Whitman: 2:36

That's huge. And I just want to double click and say that I do agree that people should go get checked often. And most people don't think about it. So that's awesome. And I had an awesome week and unusually awesome. Because we had our team off site in San Francisco, for exponent, all of us work remotely and with the pandemic and being a small team. And we're sort of spread out and so to be in person and have that kind of energy in person. It's just It's so fulfilling. And then I had the best time. I love that.

Katie: 3:10

Yeah, that's fun. I'm sure it's great to have everybody together in the same room. Bouncing views. Yes. Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

Liz Whitman: 3:18

In the early days, particularly when you're small, there's like a tribalism that like kind of happens as you all kind of come together. You know, you don't have that many people. And so you have to be rowing the boat all in unison. And it's tough to do and build those types of relationships remotely, I'm

Katie: 3:32

sure. I'm sure. All right, well, and

Amy: 3:35

you just get so much so much. So much done being together and bonding and communicating so many good ideas that came out of that, right?

Liz Whitman: 3:43

Totally. Yeah, it's too many. So now we have to prioritize which ones we're gonna do.

Amy: 3:50

That's nice. So tell us about exponent beauty and like what gap you are seeing in the market to come up with this really cool idea?

Liz Whitman: 3:58

Yeah, absolutely. And I don't even know if I would characterize it as a gap and more so as kind of a dirty skincare secret. And in the industry. I had been in the industry for about 15 years I and it's well known that antioxidants, which are the active ingredients that you often find in clinical skincare ingredients like vitamin C and retinol, the good for you stuff that we all seek out, are super fragile, when exposed to air, light and water. And the industry has worked really hard to stabilize those ingredients. And but I had this kind of hunch after using a lot of products that were kind of over promising but not delivering that there was sort of something not quite meshing in terms of the way these things were formulated. And so I ended up actually testing the top 25 Selling clinical skincare products on the market products that you have absolutely heard of probably us might be using right now I don't know, and sent them to an independent lab to test the concentration of the actives On day one through day 60. So from the moment the consumer takes the product home, what's actually happening on the day to day as you're using it. And the headline is that those products lost about 40% of their active ingredient concentration in a mere eight weeks. So stability is not an unknown thing. I think what was shocking for me, and perhaps more importantly, for my chemist, and my product developer, was the order of magnitude, right? That it lost so much so quickly. And so exponent really exists to fix this issue, right, which is to deliver active ingredients, the way that they're really meant to be delivered, right? Which is fresh, and potency every time.

Katie: 5:44

That's so brilliant, because so is it when you are you saying like when you bring the product home, and you take the lid off of it? Is that is that like, is it kind of similar to food, right? When we bring the food home food? It's the same idea, the expiration date kind of starts ticking from that point.

Liz Whitman: 6:01

Absolutely. I mean, in fact, the expiration date starts ticking from the moment it's manufactured, bottled up, goes through the supply chain, let's call it 18 months until you buy it, bring it home, then you open it and you kick off and even more rapid path of degradation.

Amy: 6:18

Did you see when you first like when you first opened it? I know you said over eight weeks, it was like 40% Last or whatever? What was it roughly when you first opened it? Since I have to go through that whole process? Like totally. So

Liz Whitman: 6:30

as you know, some products will state the concentration that they put in some don't. Right. And so of the ones who stated we were able to measure what that initial concentration was. And that was about 15% lower than what they stated.

Amy: 6:43

Now, why they say on like a vitamin C to keep it in a cool dark place.

Liz Whitman: 6:50

Probably yeah, exactly. I mean, the reality is, you could put your skincare in the fridge, and that will actually like slow down that degradation pack. It won't eradicate it though, right? Other ways that people have tried to slow it down, putting it in an airless pump, putting it in an amber jar, to protect from UV light. And, you know, combining certain molecules, so compounding vitamin C with Vitamin E or freundlich, in order to try to stabilize it. We tested all products that use those methods. And those methods again, help, but they don't eradicate the issue.

Katie: 7:28

And I would also imagine that there's a lot of products that use stabilizers, which maybe isn't necessarily part of clean beauty, right? Like I mean, you see that in so many things, it's that there's preservatives and foods or stabilizers and medication. Do you find those in beauty products as well?

Liz Whitman: 7:44

You do you do? And again, those will have it beyond the actual clean beauty issue with that right in terms of the stability, they will help but again, will not eradicate basically, as soon as it's premiere with water. Boom, that's where it all kicks off.

Amy: 8:00

Wow, wow. And what are the main I know you mentioned vitamin C, and how many ingredients are there that are this, for lack of a better word like perishable that we need to know about?

Liz Whitman: 8:10

Yeah, so anything that's an antioxidant, will be in that category, which is a lot of things. Um, so long list, long list, the hero ingredients that you would normally find in skincare that would suffer from this and is vitamin C. Retinol, which obviously hugely popular anti aging ingredient, and resveratrol, green tea, enzymes, probiotics, Vitamin K, Vitamin E to a degree, and then a bunch of acids as well. And which is a totally separate kind of world from from the exponent world. But acids as well would be fragile. What your your glomming on to, I think the best way to think about it, which is like, you know, we've all sort of come to the conclusion that fresh food is better for you, it tastes better, it's got more nutrients, etc. And so beauty I sort of tend to think lags the food industry by about 10 years, you saw that with natural and organic as well as a trend, right? And we're sort of living in that world right now in beauty, where people are really concerned about what ingredients are in their products, are they particularly unsafe? And I think what we're trying to do is, you know, transition that conversation, not just from, you know, what is in there that is potentially harmful. But what is in there that's truly truly beneficial. Sort of like the super food SAE kind of like status state of the food industry. We want that to be the focus within beauty.

Amy: 9:40

Yeah, that's really interesting, because you're right, the industry is behind and I don't think I've really thought about them that much. And I would imagine our listeners and most consumers are not thinking about it, they see like, whatever on the label 10% 20% They're like, great, you're not really, you know, thinking about it until you finish it and I don't know that's that's actually I'm very, very interesting. So hence x amount of beauty. So tell us what you've created to

Liz Whitman: 10:09

totally. And it's an it's been a labor of love. We've been in r&d for about three years, because this isn't an easy problem to solve, right. And, and so our solution is self activated skincare, whereby we've actually powderized all the active ingredients, all the antioxidants that we just talked about, in powder form, we've kept them in or unstable, right, so they are maintaining their concentration indefinitely until you activate them. And so our system allows you to activate an active ingredient with hyaluronic acid serum, which is very, very hydrating in the moment, and, and so the powderized form factor is kind of what allows us to stabilize everything. Um, but the experience is really the critical part, because no one's going to mortar and pestle a bunch of powder in their bathrooms lying around a whole big mess. So we spent a lot of time creating our packaging solution, which is our activator system, you can think of that as sort of the world's sexiest dispenser. It is a precision dosing system. So essentially, with a simple push twist, you dispense a precise amount of powder, and a precise amount of liquid in the proper ratio for a single dose and to apply clinical benefits to this game.

Katie: 11:31

It's really beautiful. You pour it in.

Liz Whitman: 11:34

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, we also thought, you know, besides functional benefits, we wanted to make it really attractive and counter were they so?

Amy: 11:43

Yeah, for sure. That's always important. So you, you put it in this device, mix it and then use it. So it's just like a fresh dose in a way sort of like when you go to a spa and they mix it right there is that the ACS kind of Yeah,

Liz Whitman: 11:56

yeah, definitely. And just to clarify, it's, you don't have to add anything to it each time. So you, you get 45 doses of powder, 90 doses of liquid, and you load it up once and then each time that you come to it to use it, you're just doing a push twist, you're dispensing from a bulk each time. So there's no like, it's not like Nespresso on it. Like that. Yeah.

Katie: 12:21

Yeah, that's genius.

Amy: 12:22

Cool. So what is really cool, what are

Katie: 12:25

some of the different types of powders? Just I'm sure how many do you have?

Liz Whitman: 12:30

Yes, so we have five. And so these are five serums. And so a serum is sort of the first layer you want to put on clean, damp skin, underneath and SPF for moisturizer. Each one of our serums has, you know, major anti aging benefits. So they have all been clinically tested to reduce fine lines and wrinkles. And then each one has an additional benefit on top of that. So first in the lineup is our newest product, which is our Time Rewind retinol, retinol at 0.25% in every dose since we can do an optimal dose. And so that's going to give great benefit for fine lines and wrinkles and Retexturizing the skin add the next step is our brightening boost vitamin C product and so this delivers 10% l ascorbic acid in every single dose. In addition to fine lines and wrinkles, it's been clinically proven to help with discoloration, brightening and radiants benefits. And third is our firming filter co q 10. Antioxidant. cokie 10 is an ingredient that's super popular in supplements and is used less frequently in skincare, even though it's got fantastic benefits. So we're really excited about this one. And it will help with fine lines and wrinkles but also have a firming effect on top of it. Then we have comme revival, green tea and resveratrol. So both green tea and resveratrol blend, and this is awesome and potentially the one that Amy should get because it's great for sensitive skin. So in addition to fine lines and wrinkles, benefits and it'll also have a redness reduction. So those ingredients are both anti inflammatory as well as an anti aging which is awesome. And then finally we have clear comeback enzymes and probiotics. And so this will actually help the clog pores and reduce blemishes.

Amy: 14:29

Wow. So how would so how would someone use the products like what would they use every day? What would they use? Like what's the Yeah How are people using the different products and for what I mean not for what but like in what in the am the pm etc?

Liz Whitman: 14:43

Yeah, so we have a couple of like natural combinations I would say and for am and pm routines. And I should note that the activator system is completely mix and match. So actually about half of our gamers have more than one powder that they're using. As an interchangeable top with a hyaluronic acid base, so a great pairing for anti aging benefits would be the vitamin C in the morning and retinol at night. A great caring for sensitive skin types would be calm revival green tea in the morning, and firming filter co q 10. That night. And, and then of course, our probiotic and enzymes is just a great treatment for folks who are worried about the clogging pores or blemishes. And we have people who use that twice a day, if that's their main concern. And I also use it sort of on an occasional basis when I'm traveling in drier climates, and and I'm just getting clogged and I'll use it for about a week and swap it into my routine. And but all of our products can be used interchangeably. The only one that I would sort of suggest really needs to be only used at night is retinol. And then we do suggest using vitamin C in the morning only because it gives you the additional benefit protecting against free radicals throughout the day. So if you use it at night, you'd still get great benefit from it, you're just not getting that protective benefit during the day.

Katie: 16:11

Okay, and what is the vitamin C test kit that I saw that you you have is that something that's coming out, or it's currently available?

Liz Whitman: 16:19

That's currently available. So I mentioned that this has been this three year journey. And in terms of grading these products, and I mentioned the primary research that we had done, you know, in the early days to verify the problem. So in the lead up to launching the products we actually published and a research hub called the exponent standard. And we took all of our primary research, we did a lot of lab work and published it there. And consumers were coming and you know, engaging with our content, and then writing in and asking lots of questions like, if these products degrade, what should I be using. And this was an advance of us having a product to recommend. So we then ended up actually creating some tools to help consumers find effective skincare. So this is truly separate from the product line, just very objective research had to help people find the best products out there. And those tools include a product recommendation list of the 82 out of 500 products that we researched and looked at that meet our standards for efficacy. And I'm happy to tell you what that is. And then the second tool we launched is vitamin C test kit. And so these are test strips that you can use at home to test the concentration of vitamin C in your skincare products, whatever you're using. And so that'll help you figure out okay, is it at a starting concentration that's doing anything for me? Is it still good after a couple of months or whatnot else. And it's just a self serve tool at home, it does have a QR code. So folks have been uploading their results to us, which is awesome, because we use that data to actually add or remove products that we recommend from our product recommendations list.

Katie: 18:05

That's so cool. And it's also really generous of you to provide that for, for the consumer to be able to get this information for themselves. But I would imagine that it's going to reveal to them that their products aren't as powerful as they thought. And so the next move is they'll come to you and be ordering more of your powders and everything. So it's really genius. It's, it's a great idea. And it's also probably really surprising for a lot of people to find out what exactly they have in their arsenal. It's not everything they thought it was hacked up today,

Amy: 18:38

I was just gonna ask the question, because you're mentioning the results. So what are people seeing, like the before and afters of the results they're seeing based on like using their old products? And then switching over and kind of tell us about that a little bit.

Liz Whitman: 18:50

Yeah, absolutely. So and what's been great about the kind of UGC that we're getting on before and afters from our products, is that our timeframe for actually seeing results and seems to be like pretty quick for skincare. I mean, typically with skincare, you're looking at like eight weeks to see results. And a lot of our products after two weeks, you have visible results. So people are, I think just really excited to be able to see something, how many times we'll be at, you know, these products, and we're expecting these miraculous results and we're trying to look but it's like imperceptible, etc. And so that's been amazing. And of course, as I said we did clinical studies on these products to begin with to make sure that they actually will deliver results. So I'm seeing that. And then other vitamin C testers folks who've tested other people's products over the last couple of years. And absolutely, we've just been so excited to see how they're reacting to ours. I will say though, Katie Yeah, I mean it does, it does open their eyes. But on our product recommendations list, there are a few other vitamin C products out there that we do recommend as well from other brands and we Don't get any, you know, affiliate fees or anything. So you fully shoppable go check it out. Thanks. That's good. Yeah, that's good.

Amy: 20:09

All right. The transparency. Yeah. Right. Yes.

Katie: 20:11

Genius. So and then the company also focuses there's a focus very much on full of versus free of, and thus, I couldn't really greatly appreciate because so much now you it's all about clean beauties free of the parabens, this and that, and this and that. And that's very heavily advertised, which is great. Thank I mean, thank goodness for that. But exponent beauty is focusing on what you're full of, which I assume is just powerful punch of everything that we're buying the stuff on the first place, right.

Liz Whitman: 20:40

Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I explained the exponent standard, and the research hub, like our entire mission is just to educate consumers on and raise the standard for effective skincare. So free of the clean beauty movement. I am super, super supportive of that, obviously, we should expect that our products don't cause harm. It's just to me, that's only half the equation, right? The other side of that is great, okay, there's nothing harmful in here. But what's actually in here that I can expect benefit from, right? And how do we create some measurement around that? And when I look at the industry, there's just so many certifications of that stand for the absence of things free, that's free of that. And I just keep questioning why is there not a standard for, you know, efficacy, right? This is, what is clinical stinker. It's an ill defined term, right? Like, how are we measuring these benefits. And one of the big things that I get, you know, particularly frustrated on is the use of clinical results. So I mentioned that our products have been clinically tested a number of times, there's actually a really big difference between clinical testing, which uses instrumentation to measure actual benefits and consumer perception testing. And in our category, in both cases, that takes place in a lab setting. So brands can quote consumer perception testing as if it's a clinical results when it's not. Anyway, longer story, but part of the exponent standard is is sorting through those 500 products that I mentioned, calling it down to add to all a few those products have been properly clinically tested and to show benefit.

Katie: 22:21

Amazing. I want to know what your skincare routine is because you have gorgeous skincare skin rather, literally. So what do you do? Yeah,

Liz Whitman: 22:34

I do try to keep it relatively simple. I do not have a 10 step routine by any means. And I think fewer better products for everyone would be would be a nice move. So in the morning, I actually don't wash my face because I've washed my face at night and I use a micellar water and or toner I just like splash it on. So that's step one. Step two, I use one of our exponents serums typically I use calm revival in the morning because I have sensitive skin and a bit of rosacea. And then I put on an SPF on top. And everyone should be wearing SPF every day. I don't care if you're only outside for five minutes, please please please.

Amy: 23:18

And if it's cloudy, that doesn't mean anything. Please.

Liz Whitman: 23:23

And then I put an SPF on top. And then at night I cleanse and I do we're you know some makeup light during the day and so definitely need an oil cleanser to kind of get it all off. At night at I use a different exponent serum. So co q 10. The firming filter one at night. And then I put a light moisturizer on top just because I like the feel and I kind of want to trap everything in. And then once a week I exfoliate. And I use a sort of grainy exfoliation. Yeah.

Amy: 23:57

Yeah, what SPF do you use?

Liz Whitman: 23:59

When I use questions? Yeah, so So my favorite brand is Elta. MD and so I use their SPF which is 46. And it's amazing product. I don't know if you're familiar with it. Every dermatologist friend and

Amy: 24:14

colleague that I have had a dermatologist on the show who recommended it. Yeah, it's amazing. And it's like the gold standard.

Liz Whitman: 24:22

Yeah, they have a clear one and they have a tinted one. And this is the craziest thing about the tinted one. So hard to get a universal tint and but like girlfriends of mine across the Fitzpatrick scale in terms of skin tone, we can all use it and it looks amazing. It's very light. And so particularly when I'm in a rush, I just put that on and it gives us a little bit of sort of not retouching effect. It's not like wearing foundation but just kind of smooths everything out.

Amy: 24:53

Right smooths everything out. Yeah. One of the other things I noticed on your website, which is really impressive is that you're a B Corp. which I know is really hard to get that certification. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that? Because I think that's very important nowadays.

Liz Whitman: 25:08

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, benefit corporation, otherwise known as B Corp, and is a type of corporate status in the US where you have to actually go through a very rigorous certification process. And basically, they're looking to see if you meet the highest verified standards of environmental and social transparency and accountability in your business practices. That sounds very, very technical, I like to think of it as companies that really want to structure themselves around this concept of a triple bottom line, right. And so obviously, we're a for profit company. So we're thinking about making profits. So that's thing one, but we're also thinking about impact on planet and people. Right. And so that's, that's our triple bottom line focus, it took us about a year and a half. And to get B Corp certified, we were certified even prior to launch, which is somewhat unheard of, it was very important to me personally, I've done a lot of work with B corpse in the past. And so I knew that that was something that we wanted to do. And the way that we got verified is because our packaging has actually eliminated plastic waste. So we didn't talk about it. But the activator is fully refillable, or refills, cutting glass jars with aluminum caps, which are the only infinitely recyclable materials out there. And the activator itself is a system that gets reused again and again. So I am super, super proud of this. And I think what I was kind of surprised about to be honest, is I knew it was important to us and to me to do this the right way. And I didn't know how much it would resonate with consumers, right. And I'm not sure if we're like really voting with our wallets on sustainability in the beauty category at this point. And it's been really wonderful to see how people have glommed on to it, how they're respecting it, how they're commenting on it bodes well for all of us and for the for the future of the planet as well.

Amy: 27:10

Yeah, it's definitely, I think, especially to the younger generation, they're very aware what I've seen very aware of companies that are in this space, truly, and it does make a difference to them, which I love. And there is so much waste and beauty. So congratulations on that. It's really good to see. Thank you.

Katie: 27:31

Now, you're also a mentor and an investor in a lot of like young startups in the beauty space, which that has to be exciting. What are some? Are you seeing a lot of very, like innovative products and cutting edge things that are, you know, on the horizon that we should get excited about?

Liz Whitman: 27:49

Yeah, I love being an investor in the space, I do seed stage investing as part of X Factor ventures, and we're small seed fund focused on female founded businesses. And I do look at a lot of consumer and naturally a lot of beauty. And, and there are there are some very exciting things happening. I think, you know, first and foremost, folks are thinking about creating brands and product lines for specific consumer groups, and particularly underserved consumer groups and making sure that we're having a much more personalized kind of consumer and brand match. And I think that's really, really exciting, particularly in the realm of color cosmetics, making sure that we have, you know, a range of tones to suit every person's needs, and I think is critical. And we're seeing some really interesting things happening in the clinical skincare space in terms of biotech, starting to spin out new technologies, and for again, benefits in skincare, which of course, I'm excited about that part of the skincare world. And then we're seeing some really cool new innovations on the packaging front as well. So similar to my my enthusiasm for my own B Corp status. And there are some really interesting sustainable packaging companies that are coming out to really help the beauty industry start to clean up its act. It's really hard, you can't find stock packaging that's like actually sustainable. And so new materials innovations happening and playing with, you know, sort of soy based bamboo based kind of materials that could actually be used in our category. And I'm obviously personally really excited about that. Because if that comes out, and it's really like accessible and inexpensive. I think more and more brands will obviously choose to do the right thing. Yeah,

Amy: 29:42

that's great. Well, two questions. Firstly, I mean, it sounds like you know, you just launched in the brands doing well tell us about how their response has been and like how the ramp up has been, what you're seeing so far and then also what advice you have for female entrepreneurs listening to this that are just getting started and For example, when I create a product, yeah,

Liz Whitman: 30:02

yeah, absolutely. And the launch has gone super well, I'm so thrilled. And we've kind of exceeded our expectations. And I think some of the things that I started to kind of nod to earlier that surprised me, but in a good way, like I said, the sustainable messaging and seems to be resonating. It never really was something we didn't do it as like a marketing ploy. Right? We did it because we just wanted to do it. Right, it actually means something to you, which is Yeah, and the fact that it means something other people too, is just really, really awesome to see. And I think the other thing I've been surprised but pleasantly surprised about and is folks understanding this idea that it's a system, right and that it's got this mix and match capability. And because like I said, with my skincare routine, I tried to keep it to fewer better things. And so there's real value if people know that they can actually tailor their aim and their PM. And it's kind of like having three products in one, right, you've got the hydrator and then your two actives. And that's been really, really awesome, too. And then finally, we've gotten a lot of interest from dermatologists, Esthetician ones, and retailers and pretty early on, which is very cool. So that kind of opens up new, a new lens for how we want to think about growth and down the road. And advice for female entrepreneurs, I get asked this question, a decent man, this is now my third startup. So that makes me a masochist. But that's something we can talk about over grade one. So I've done this a number of times. And you know, one thing I would say is just like, make sure that you are really committed to wanting to do this for a decade, right. And it is not as glamorous as sometimes the press makes it seem there. It's a lot of hard work. I mean, the two of you know that, right? And, and and it's really got to make sense for you, as a personality, in terms of your lifestyle, and everything else. In terms of vetting an idea. My advice always is like, the best businesses are solutions to extremely acute problems, right? They're not nice to have, I would really think of it that way. Like your solution needs to be a painkiller, not a vitamin, right? And if that is true, then I mean, you know, world's your oyster, it means you're actually solving a real pain point for people. And then the third thing I would say, and this is hard, right? And is really, really make like friends and family and colleagues and network connections, feel very comfortable giving you real feedback on your idea, right? Like, go out of your way, like read up on consumer focus groups, and how to run them and how to ask questions without leading the witness, create an environment where you're like, tell me all the reasons why I shouldn't do this. Like that's a different way to phrase it, right? Because otherwise you end up in kind of an echo chamber, right? Where everyone's like, Oh, that's a great idea. No one wants to hurt your feelings. It's your baby, you know, and but you're just not gonna get better if you're not open to that.

Amy: 33:17

Yeah, so that's, that's great advice.

Katie: 33:19

All of it is yeah, I the product piece of filling a hole if it's a painkiller, not a vitamin is really like such a genius way to think about it. Because fixing a pain for some, that's what's going to really explode. Right is when it's really, really, really needed. So that's all such great advice. Thank you.

Amy: 33:43

So tell us how to find exponent beauty. Is it? I know you mentioned you're looking at retail and all these other areas? Is it? Is it just online? Is it? What's the what's the plan? Yep,

Liz Whitman: 33:54

right now, we are just online at exponent beauty.com. And so you can find the full line of five serums there. And in our research section on site is where you can find our product recommendations list for the exponent standard if you're looking to fill out your routine, so I would encourage you to check that out too. And then as I mentioned, of course, looking at the professional channel, so dermatologists esthetician offices, so we may be there sooner than you expect. So if you have your favorite you can ask them about us and see if we're there and and reach out down the road but for now, exponent beauty.com

Amy: 34:34

Also, I cannot wait to try it.

Katie: 34:36

Yeah, and your website has great how to like you know when to use retinol, what time of day and things like that. It's a really useful tool, the website in addition to have all of your amazing products so we are super excited.

Liz Whitman: 34:51

Yeah, I mean, again, for me my motivation obviously first and foremost is just to help people find effective skincare right at Otherwise, why would we publish all of this useful information, all of these product recommendations list and, you know, I hope a fraction of folks will fall in love with us too, but and our product line. So yeah, please do use it as a resource. And that's what we're there for. You can also always contact our customer delight team. Believe it or not, sometimes I get in there on some of the gnarly ingredients, questions and product recommendations questions. We're always happy to do a consult as well.

Amy: 35:27

That's great to know. Okay, we're gonna get into our rap session, which is a star quick hit questions. Don't think about I'm just answer ready. Here's the first one. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Liz Whitman: 35:39

Drinking water.

Amy: 35:43

Good one.

Katie: 35:45

And accessible to all.

Amy: 35:47

Exactly. Very important. That's great. Okay, the next one we call our five minute flower. So you just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you. They're five minutes away. So what is your quick beauty routine? Like what do you put on what are your go to Holy Grails to get in the car and get out the door? And I know you talked about your skincare a little bit. But if you're you know, going out for the night, let's say what's your what's your quick get ready routine?

Liz Whitman: 36:12

Oh, you changed it up. But that nighttime question now I'm like trying to think about

Amy: 36:17

it. Or let's say a daytime brunch.

Liz Whitman: 36:21

Yeah, okay, daytime brunch. Alright, I jumped out of the shower, I put my hair in a microfiber towel, which dries it really really fast. While I put on my serum, and then my Elta tinted SPF, I don't have time to put on anything else. So that's just going to be my coverage. I would try to get some mascara in there if I could. And based on the timing to run out the door, hair dry brush brush, and then in sort of a top bun, which I'm going to hope is going to dry on its way to the brunch, and then I will let it out. Lived in and organic waves.

Katie: 37:00

Love it. Perfect. Alright, and the last one we want to know is how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Liz Whitman: 37:09

You know, I think I need to get better at maintaining my daily nirvana. It's like a conscious practice to make sure that I'm trying to take stock of kind of what went well, what can I improve on? What am I grateful for? And and I don't do it every day, and I should. And I really admire people who do

Amy: 37:30

it. Yeah, it's definitely hard, especially, you know, busy entrepreneur or running, you know, launching a brand, I'm sure. But yes, we always, we always try to just tell people take a step back for five minutes and breathe. You know, it's just something to like, make sure you're not burning out. We actually just did an episode a couple weeks ago, that launched about the vagus nerve and keeping within the window of your vagal tone. So every ever since I heard that I was like, gotta make sure you're in that window or else you burn out. But that's great. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. So we will end with our mantra which we'd like to do at the end of every show to set the tone and say goodbye to our listeners. Katie, what do you have for us?

Katie: 38:12

So this week, and just to reiterate, I've said this recently, some are mantras, some are reminders, some are just little affirmations. This one is difficult roads often lead to beautiful destinations. And I think oh, what it sounds like Liz your road to creating excellent beauty has not been an easy one. And you guys have rocked it and the brand is here and we are so excited praise. Thank you for being with us today.

Liz Whitman: 38:40

Thank you for that. That's really wonderful. I'm going to take that one with me and repeat it at the end of the day. That'll be my first attempt at practicing my daily nirvana. So thank you. Thank you.

Amy: 38:55

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 59 - The Power Of Being Polished With Glosslab Founder, Rachel Glass (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 59 - The Power Of Being Polished With Glosslab Founder, Rachel Glass

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome to Nirvana sisters Nirvana sisters family, we are back. It's Amy and Katie. And this week's episode is about a self care ritual, which I think is probably one of the most relatable things we've talked about so far. Because most of you probably do this or I hope you do. But this ritual is an easy way to help us feel confident, like I said before, very relatable. And what is it nails we're talking about? One of my favorite subjects is Katy nose. And we are here with Rachel Glass, the founder of Glosslab, and we're so excited to hear her take on nails and self care. And welcome to the show. Rachel are so excited to have you.

Rachel: 1:09

Thank you so much for having me. I'm having a

Amy: 1:11

Katie and I have both been frequenting our Glosslabs in our areas. So we love it so much. But um, before we get into it, let's take a step back from our week and talk about our weekly nirvana. So this is just like something that brought us joy this week, something that brought us happiness Big or small, just to kind of like, take a step back. So Katie, why don't you start?

Katie: 1:30

Yeah, thanks, Amy. I wouldn't mind like hands down was yesterday, my four year old graduated pre K. And it was just the cutest thing. They had the sweetest ceremony. It was like way more produced and done than I was expecting at all. It was very sweet. The kids saying like 10 songs. And they had, they had like a proper ceremony where they called each child up and gave them a special necklace. And everyone clapped for each time. It was just it was it was so cute. It was great. So I'm very excited for Reese.

Amy: 2:02

Were you crying

Katie: 2:03

a couple times? Yeah. I wasn't like as hyper emotionalism as some of the parents were. But I think I probably will be when I send her to kindergarten next year. Yeah, it was great. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:15

That's a sweet. Well, my kids just finished school too. I have two boys, Rachel and one just finished ninth grade in high school. And the younger one just finished sixth grade in middle school. So yesterday was their like, official last day. So we went out to dinner last night at a really nice restaurant, and celebrated the end of school and all their successes and you know, just congratulated them for working hard and all of that. It was just like a nice to be together. We've all been running around the last couple of weeks and of schools always crazy. So just nice to sit together like us for and celebrate and spend time together. So that was definitely my Nirvana this week. What about you, Rachel?

Unknown: 2:50

I am I have two girls. They are seven and nine. And they are not done with school yet. But I feel like I've had I've gotten to spend a lot of time with them. This week, parents were allowed back in the classroom to see sort of their end of year stuff for the first two years. So that was just really nice, special time with them and seeing them inside school, which I haven't done in a very long time. Yeah,

Amy: 3:13

that's, that's okay. Are you are you based in New York?

Unknown: 3:15

I'm based in New York. Okay,

Amy: 3:17

awesome. Hey. Awesome. Well, let's get into it. So tell us all about GlossLab and like what gap you're seeing in the market when you create it?

Unknown: 3:26

Yeah, for sure. So I My background is in finance. I worked in finance for 10 years at a business school. And I always felt like a manicure was part of my routine. I really thought of it like an errand like getting your shoes shined. And I felt that there was no brand in the nail salon space. So there were a lot of a lot of mom and pops. There was high end spa, but nothing that was really branded, accessible, unknown entity. So I did a lot of research on the space. I really focused on hygiene, because I found that if that was something that was really easily compromised at nail salons, and waterless I did a lot of research and waters basically, any way you spin it is a breeding ground for germs and bacteria, especially with pedicures. So when I started gloss lab and this was pre COVID. I should also say that I'm a lifelong germaphobe. So the ethos of gloss lab, pre dado was really hygiene focused. And I think that obviously means so much more today in this world that we're living in, but especially around nail care. Our tools look like your tools at the dentist or doctor office. Everything is sterilized in an autoclave machine. Our services are completely waterless. And then we're really focused on efficiency. So I think of a manicure as something that it's it's a great sort of, I don't even I'd like to say treat for yourself, I really think of it like an errand like you go to the gym, you go manicure. But how do we make that as efficient as possible. So a really fun experience while you're at GlossLab. But we love to get you in and out and back to your day. So to make that happen, we have same time manicure pedicure, you can get both at the same time. And then we have a membership model. So since day one, we have a membership model, which is unlimited manicures and pedicures for about $115 a month. And that, again, is really focused on efficiency. So how do we make this that you're not stopping to pay each time you come in, this is really part of your routine, you can get as many manicures and pedicures per month as you want to. And I I would say above all of that above the function is, I believe a manicure is really empowering. Like when I have a manicure, I feel like I'm fully dressed, I can take on my day I can I just feel good about myself. And I think in this small way with feeling polished, you can kind of take on the world. And I think that's really what I believe in for GlossLab.

Katie: 6:12

I love that. Yeah, I

Amy: 6:13

totally agree that for the

Katie: 6:14

the listener that maybe hasn't been to Manhattan, there are nail salons everywhere. But you can walk into any different salon and have an entirely different experience. And you never have any idea of how of the hygiene level and how efficient it's going to be, etc. to brand. A nail salon I think is just ingenious, because you know, you're getting every time you come in. And that's I mean, that's absolutely like one of the things that I love the most about about GlossLab. Another efficient thing that you offer is the times you are it's the earliest opening up and so on that I've ever seen you offer as early as 8am. Is that right?

Unknown: 6:53

Yes. So we open at eight and we close at eight. So we, we those 8am appointments are very booked. I'm sure we're busy, efficiency driven, mostly female. But yes, we read those early appointments are golden.

Amy: 7:09

Yeah, I recently posted on my Instagram on a few saw, but I got an early an early appointment around like 830. And it was so helpful, because I feel like I've been saying that for years being you know, working in corporate America, I never have time to do anything. I'm like, why don't these salons open at eight in the morning. So I can just go on my way to work and just like get it over with instead of like they open at 10am Like when am I supposed to go and so that's it's so helpful and amazing. And then the fact that you're open late, same thing, if you just you know, don't get to it in the morning. So I love that. That's so helpful.

Katie: 7:39

Yeah, and you have locations in Manhattan and Westport, which has to do with festa worlds. Oh,

Unknown: 7:48

amazing. Okay, so we have locations. We have seven in New York in New York City. And then we have Westport, Connecticut, which I think of as still sort of the New York market. The open Bethesda, we're opening three more in the DC area. So first, and then the other three will be opening in the next month to two months. And we have over 30 leases signed. And those are all US Miami, Dallas, Houston. And then a few other markets coming soon and more in New York City, Miami and the same markets. That's so exciting. Yeah, that's

Katie: 8:25

amazing. Amazing. Congratulations.

Amy: 8:27

That's so much fun. Congrats. Yeah. How do you pick your markets?

Unknown: 8:31

So we started in New York, we I'm based in New York City. So this is a you know, a New York City brand at the start. And we really pick markets based on I mean, our customer is primarily female, but not not only female, I would say that we're picking markets, and really focused on convenience. So two things. Where can we cluster locations. So New York City, we have seven soon to be almost double that in New York. I think we could have even more than that. In New York City alone. There's 4200 nail salons. So there's opportunity. So we're picking markets where we can go into the market and really open several locations at once because that really speaks to our membership model. And we're looking at it as a convenience so where is this person woman going? Where's she picking up her coffee? Where's she getting her salad where's she going to work out and making GlassLab really a part of that day.

Katie: 9:30

It's so smart. The other thing that is so fun about GlossLab is you offer such great like nail art and such a really fun array of colors. And then are there also different like grades like what are the different types of manicures that you that you offer?

Unknown: 9:48

Yeah, so we have, we have long lasting polish, which is typical nail polish as you think of nail polish, and then we have our performance polish, which is it's also all Long Lasting nail polish, but it not only lasts long, it also dries in five minutes. So that's sort of our middle polish, which is my favorite. And then we have gel polish. So we use soft gels only gels that can be removed easily, because I think other gels really damage your nails. So we have three tiers of nail polish. And then we do design. But we're really also I don't want to say efficiency focus with design, but a little bit. We're not a design studio, we do design but but we have designs on our board. And it's it's on the more like in a more focused way for design.

Amy: 10:36

Yeah. And I was gonna say I actually like that, because I always love to do like a fun design here and there and most places can't do it or don't do it. Right. And I love that you only have kind of like a few and they're just like fun ones that are trendy or like something that's like, you know, you've seen online or whatever. And I liked that because then you don't have a lot of choice. It's just there's like, I don't know, whatever, like five or 10 designs. I think like last time I went in there I did. I got like foil def design, which I love. And the cool thing was is I picked it and then they're like, Oh, you could do gold foil or silver foil or whatever foil and you could do a different colors. So I liked that, like there was like a set of designs, but then you could still customize it and then like you kind of know what you're getting. So I love that because I think at other places. Yeah, it's just like, totally random. I remember what I was gonna ask you before is it only membership model? Or can you just go in without the membership?

Unknown: 11:30

It's both so membership and then all car walk in bulk an appointment. It's really it's really both.

Amy: 11:37

Okay, and then I was going to ask you the performance polish that you were mentioning that drives and drives in five minutes. Does that stay on? Like gel does?

Unknown: 11:45

No, so it applies like regular polish, it's not cured with a lamp. And then it also removes like a regular polish, but it dries in five minutes. It's amazing. Like your nails are really dry in five minutes.

Amy: 11:59

And does it chip like I mean, I can since gels were invented I can't get anything else because when I get like normal a normal manicure for me it chips in like one second does this one chip as easily as the other or is it like more in the gel?

Unknown: 12:12

It's not like gel, so it's not like I like to get gel when I'm traveling or when I have a very busy week and I just need my nails to be completely Chipless for a period of time and especially when traveling because I feel like traveling by the time I zip my suitcase like to leave my nails you're done. So I love gel for me gel really weakens my nails if I do it too much. So I like to do gel like maximum once a month. And then the rest I do performance polish. Yeah. It after a certain amount of days. It does chip. Yeah, like Northen, you

Amy: 12:49

just you have you have unlimited so you just go back and get it fixed. Right. I'm gonna start doing that because I've noticed that my nails well they were weak to start with, but they're even weaker. And I feel like since I've been using gel like it doesn't last as long because they're just like not so I feel like my nails need a break. So that's a good tip. I like that.

Unknown: 13:06

It's good. And it's also the gel will end up not as lasting as long if you write gel.

Amy: 13:11

That's what's been happening to me. Do

Katie: 13:12

you have some tips for strengthening weak nails? My nails are always weak. I think it's partly because of my thyroid. People that have thyroid issues, say weak nails. I don't know if you know this, but as unhealthy. Yeah, so

Unknown: 13:26

probably shouldn't do that because I have I have hypo thyroid too. So I probably but I didn't know that but it makes sense. Other tips so we were actually launching our products and oh next month and going forward. We exciting. Yes, so exciting. We have an amazing this is my favorite favorite product. It's called our super boost. And I've spent about a year sort of coming up with this product when we looked to make a nail treatment. There was so much on the market there was like a nail strengthener nail hardener rich filler like so many different things. And we created this super boost which is like I like to think of it as like a little shot of vitamins for your nails. So it's like everything in one and it go it applies with this like sheer pinkish color so it doesn't apply completely shear. And I love to use it in between manicures, like if I'm at home and I'm taking off my Polish I know I'm getting a manicure the next day I'll apply the super boost. You can apply it on top of a nail of a manicure if it's a light color. But it's really really great and just as amazing for your nails.

Amy: 14:34

When will that be launching

Unknown: 14:36

that we'll be launching this summer. Nice.

Amy: 14:39

And where where can people buy it?

Unknown: 14:42

People can buy it on our website and stores. So we're yeah we're really excited. That's great. Thank you and then the other tip I mean really just as I was saying is I would definitely recommend breaks from gel because I think that's it just really weakens nails.

Katie: 14:58

Do you is collagen good for now. How do you know that I've heard that rumor like like you know, those college and like Vital Proteins and things like that, do you? Do you know if that's legit?

Unknown: 15:09

I can't speak to if it's legit believe so, for me what works and what I tend to recommend is intake of nutrients and vitamins but also staying super hydrated. I drink tons and tons of water like this one liters on my desk all the time. And I've noticed for me that makes a big difference and then just keeping your nails very hydrated. So we're coming out with lotion, lotion, oils, coconut oils, anything that just keeps them really hydrated is great. Nice.

Amy: 15:43

Yeah, I tried to keep like some sort of oil at my desk just to like put on my cuticles. I've been out of the habit, but I need to refill just to like, keep things moisturized. Yeah, and hydrated. I was going to ask you to so just back to the waterless thing. So I'm just trying to understand. So why does so many salons use water? If it's not hygienic? Like what's the benefit of using water water overnight using water?

Unknown: 16:11

Yeah, we so part of my diligence for loss lab, I went to nail technician training school, I really wanted to get under the hood of the business, I would not recommend getting a manicure from me, I'm not very good at that. I really wanted to understand more about the business. And it's really just historically water has been taught as part of the service, but it really doesn't have a function. I think it's if you want to clean the feed or soak the feed for us, all of those just lead to germs and bacteria. So we've completely eliminated it.

Katie: 16:46

Yeah, I like that. I think. I mean, I've heard like plenty of horror stories of things that happen with pedicures and water and everything. So it's really brilliant. And I've never seen it before. Anywhere that it's it seems like all the salons all. They all do the water. Right. So it's it's ingenious. So do you have any exciting nail trends that you can tell us about what's like new colors, combinations? So what's happening this year?

Amy: 17:13

We did this trends episode earlier this year. Member cating we were talking about some of those nails that were like supposedly going to be hot for 2022. I read some of them down. And I don't know if this holds true. We'll see what Rachel the extra things they were it was like multicolor nails. It was the American manicure which I get a lot neutrals. DIY, of course I know has gotten a big focus because of the pandemic decals, waves, mixed textures. Those are the things that we found when we were doing research earlier this year that would kind of be popping this year.

Unknown: 17:45

What do you know, I think so we see a lot of the waves of all of those that you mentioned. For us foils are which I know you said you tried are amazing. That's been a huge trend for us. And what I love about foils is they're super easy to get under nails. And it looks like design. It is a design. Yeah,

Amy: 18:04

I watched her do it. I was like, Oh, you like press it on. It's so cool.

Unknown: 18:08

And it takes five minutes. So instead of 60 minutes to get a very intricate design. It's much quicker and I think looks very cool. So I would say foils for sure. And then with summer approaching, we're seeing a lot of neons like just neons neon pedicures neon blue, yellow, green, pink, etc.

Katie: 18:33

But number what is the American manicure? What's that mean? Amy, what were you saying you'd get?

Amy: 18:39

It's like, um, you know, I'll do like a it's almost like a French manicure but the top is like a fun color. Oh, like

Katie: 18:46

where the lights are the tip. The tip like you'll

Amy: 18:50

do like a white French manicure, but instead of the French being white the French is like Oh, cute. Now neon yellow love banger you know, it's just it's like a fun little have a Kardashian. So I think that's what I think that's what the American American manicure means. Versus like the French manicure like the traditional so it's just like, judging it up a little bit.

Katie: 19:09

Yeah, Rachel, do you guys do the mat? I can't remember the last time I was there. Do you offer the matte finish?

Unknown: 19:16

We do. I like So that finishes is a topcoat and

Katie: 19:19

we did yeah, I love it.

Amy: 19:22

And also, I will note that the experience in the salon is so fun because I just love all the branding and you have the magazines behind you What was the inspiration for like the black and white magazine inspo design. It's so fun.

Unknown: 19:36

Yeah. So with our stores, I like to think that we've thought of every detail of the experience because because that's sort of the whole premise of GlassLab was how do we make this a branded experience? So each location, it's localized, but But certain things are the same. So the Glossop wall, we have a mirror in the front, just sort of take a picture of your manicure when you're leaving, obviously waterless as I've discussed at the stations, but really the look and feel and then our nail polish wall, which actually doesn't have, as you guys know does not have nail polish bottles, it has nail tiles, so you can really see the polish and what it's going to look like on your nails. And that's the same at each location.

Amy: 20:18

Yeah, that is so smart and such a good it's such a creative and inventive way to do it. Because for our listeners, there's a big what you call like a board. And it's just as like little squares you can take out and you just see all the nail polish instead of all the bottles being there, which like half the time you're like going, you know what this looks like on my nails. And it's like, at the other nail salons will have those wheels where you're like touching all the things and everyone touches them. And you look at all the colors, and there's like 10 billion colors and you stand there forever. Like I feel like, all your colors are beautiful and curated like every single color is beautiful.

Unknown: 20:53

Yeah, yeah, thank you. And we, we also have it. So we have our GlassLab favorite section with the and we have a feature section. So we're able to show our colors, we're launching our own polish. And one takeaway I had from launching the Polish was, you're always looking for that, for example, like what's your I want to get a red what red should I get? There's 25 reds to choose from. And we're launching our polish with our OG collection first. And it's OG red and Og. Deep red. So are two reds, you're looking for red. Here's a red, red. Here's like a deeper red. And it just sort of makes that process so much more efficient and simple. Of having choices. We have like OG gray OG dark gray, some light colors, but really making that simpler, especially for the basic colors.

Katie: 21:45

Yeah, I get Yeah. Neutral selections. Sometimes like Amy gets up gets like fun with all the fun colors. And I'm more of a neutrals girl and I it's like, I could stand there for an hour. It makes my head spin when I'm at another salon. So I love I love the curated. Great. So I just want to know I mean, you are manicures and pedicures, it's always been like you said earlier an errand something that you just check off your list and you make sure you get it done. But certainly I would imagine that, you know, self care and some beauty tips that may be picked up along the way. Like why do you why is this so important? And why do you feel like offering this in such an efficient way? Is is a game changer? I mean, what is it about this little thing on our nails and having it done nicely? That makes you feel so good?

Unknown: 22:35

Yeah, I think it's I mean, to me, having a manicure is just so empowering. It makes me feel good. And I feel like if I have a chip nail, if I don't have a manicure, I don't feel as put together and really feel like it's this little thing that you can do. And it just makes you feel good. And you can you know, have the confidence to like ask for that promotion at work or talk to that person or do whatever is like, you need to feel that empowerment.

Katie: 23:08

Yeah, I agree with that. I

Amy: 23:09

think it's so true. It's also like when you get your head. I mean, we had Ali Webb on the show a couple of months ago and like, you know, the whole philosophy of dry bar is like you get your hair done, but it's really because it makes you feel confident. And it's the same thing with nails. It's like those things are the things that make you stand up straighter and make you feel confident make talk to someone different or do something different because you just have more of that confidence. What other just being now in the in the beauty world. I mean, you're in finance what you know, before you start a Glass Lab, which is I'm sure like a complete 180 What have you kind of picked up along the way from like, a beauty standpoint doesn't have to be about nails, but like, Have you learned anything that was different than than then before just now being in this business? 24/7

Unknown: 23:52

Yeah, I you know, it's funny because I, I don't I think of GlassLab Of course, we're in the beauty space. But I don't actually put it as like always beauty and sort of self care. Like I tend to not like those words. I don't know if I'm

Amy: 24:09

terrified.

Unknown: 24:12

But for me a manicure is an errand and it's really something I see as more of a routine than this. It's like I see it. Like you work out you get a manicure I related to maintenance. It's maintenance like you should just like always have a manicure always have your nails done, because it's like Yeah,

Amy: 24:30

I saw on your website it said always on always polished, which I love. Yeah, love. Yeah. So you said you have how many open now you have about 10 ish open now

Unknown: 24:39

open and then we should have about 30 open by the end of this year.

Amy: 24:43

That's amazing. So obviously the brand is doing well. But tell us about how it was like what when did you launch? Did you launch right before the pandemic?

Unknown: 24:51

We I launched? Yes in 2019. So before the pandemic Okay,

Amy: 24:54

so how was the whole pandemic like the whole COVID era for you being that you just recently launched, what happened during that timeframe and like, how are you doing? Obviously, you're doing well now. But like, take us through that I'm interested.

Unknown: 25:09

I mean, I think COVID, of course, was hard for everyone. I, as an entrepreneur, I sort of see times like that as also times of opportunity. So I think for GlassLab, thankfully, we only had two locations at the time, they were closed for a period but then reopened. And I think, given that our ethos was hygiene from day one, it really resonated even more so after COVID. Because people who maybe didn't value it as much before, really valued it valued it now, and it was really top of mind. I also think, manicures are this, it's sort of this little something that you can do for yourself. And in COVID when people were home, people wanted manicures, and it's a manager is not to like, go see somebody else. It's really just to feel good about yourself. Right. And I think that sort of resonated more so post COVID. So I feel very fortunate that, you know, we've been able to bounce back, and I think it is something that that people really value.

Amy: 26:16

Yeah, absolutely. And so you have 30 opening and then future plans, like how many how many do you plan to have dominate the dominate the nation or what?

Unknown: 26:25

Yes, I would love to have a glass slab on many, many corners throughout the country. I think nails is very much about convenience. Yeah. We've really taken that into consideration planning or locations for golf club.

Amy: 26:40

I have an idea because I've always thought of this. Which I'm sure you've thought about but do you have always wanted like a little cute. This is silly but so we have like a grooming service that comes to our house and gives our dog like a bath and a groom just you know pulls up in our driveway. It's like a little van but I'm like I have this vision of this cute van pulling up and like I can go in and get a manicure and like everybody on my street hand to like a pop up any plans for things like that.

Unknown: 27:09

It's a great idea. My team. No plans get mad, but I love that.

Amy: 27:15

Yeah. And then final question before we get to our speed round. Are your nails always polished as the founder of gloss lab? On always polished I love it. I need that mantra in my head because minor, I would say 85% of the time polished but now that I have a Glass Lab in my hood, I'm much more prepared to be always on and always polished.

Katie: 27:38

And I want to see do you can we? Oh, sorry. Oh,

Amy: 27:42

yeah. What are you wearing today?

Unknown: 27:43

I have this is actually one of our polishes. It's a slate. It's our gray. I love it.

Katie: 27:48

I think that's the one I did for our photoshoot, Amy we we hit gloss lab before our brand shoot. I love it together. It's a great color. It's a good it's a new semester with like with the neutral set. Yeah, yeah,

Amy: 28:03

me too. I love neutral gray is like my go to neutral whenever I'm like going on a trip going on a business trip. Have a meeting. It's like the classic to me. Yeah. Yeah, same. Love it. Okay, um, we're going to start off with our little quickfire rounds. Okay, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Unknown: 28:22

My favorite wellness or beauty hack is I love coconut oil. Like from the kitchen, coconut oil, skin hair everywhere.

Katie: 28:32

nicely on your face as well. Your skin is gorgeous. You've absolutely glowing. Wow.

Unknown: 28:38

On my skin, I love oils. It's kind of a little greasy and gross. But

Amy: 28:43

I let you do you put it on and wash it off or you just put it on. I usually

Unknown: 28:47

put it on either before bed or before workout and just sweat into it and then wash it out.

Katie: 28:55

Nice. Well that's a good one. I haven't heard that before. That's great. All right, this next one we call it our five minute flow. Just got out of the shower and dry it off. And Uber has Pingu. They're five minutes away. What are you going to do? Pull yourself together what are your holy grails your go to is to get in that Uber in five minutes.

Unknown: 29:14

I am a uniform girl. So the dressing part is easy. It's like a white white t shirt like I'm wearing now. white tank top jeans. cute pair of sneakers. I can be out the door for routine I use sanyes brow pencil sanyes brow bar in New York the best. My favorite that's sort of my go to put that on a little bit of face moisture and I'm good to go. Nice.

Katie: 29:44

Great. And the last one we we want to know how do you maintain your daily nirvana.

Unknown: 29:50

So as you guys both know, as moms it's, you know, hard to find sometimes, but I I wake up soon for early and my morning is sort of most of the time if I don't get interrupted, but most of the time, that's sort of my Nirvana time. That's like my time when everybody else is sleeping. I'm awake, sort of have moments of planning my day, come quiet, get a workout in and kind of get to like, start my day and get my head together before the chaos of family and GlassLab and everything else comes in.

Katie: 30:27

Yes, I get that I do the exact same thing and mine was interrupted this morning by my four year old at 630. I was not happy

Unknown: 30:35

that I have that a lot of the time my seven year old is also a little early bird I'm like, Hold on I'm not

Amy: 30:41

ready for you're excited. You're like I need to complete my morning before I can talk to anybody else. It's

Katie: 30:45

so true. So true.

Amy: 30:48

Yeah, thank you so much for spending time with us and giving us all things nails. We're a big fan of the brand and a view and all your success congratulations are just super excited for more to come and seeing all the new products that you're rolling out so fun and well. We always end with a mantra So Kate is gonna give us our mantra today

Katie: 31:09

I like this one because you know the nails like you said it's an errand it's all a part of you know, taking care of yourself I know you don't look at it so much as like self care or treat but we don't actually our ethos is that like self care isn't really a treat either. You know, it's it's for the Nirvana sisters, your wellness and your self care at all. It's all wrapped into just your day to day and and keeping yourself healthy and happy and your wellness. So this is you are the greatest project you'll ever work on. I think that that ties that works. Yeah, I

Amy: 31:44

love that. That's a good one. So thank you so much. Thank you. This is so much fun.

Unknown: 31:49

Thank you so much. Thank

Amy: 31:50

you. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 58 - How To Reset And Detoxify Your Body In 5 Days With Kroma Wellness Founder And CEO, Lisa Odenweller (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 58 - How To Reset And Detoxify Your Body In 5 Days With Kroma Wellness Founder And CEO, Lisa Odenweller.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:27

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. We are here with Lisa Odenweller, the Kroma Wellness CEO and founder who is a visionary entrepreneur and we cannot wait to talk with her. We are also sipping our afternoon beauty matcha lattes from Kroma and it's fabulous. And I'm loving it in our special Kroma mugs, which are also beautiful. So we wanted to meet with Lisa because we wanted to hear all about Kroma her new brand, and also her background because she has an incredible background and well being and wellness and all holistic wellness type things and you've probably seen Kroma for our listeners, you've probably seen Kroma all of our Instagram, like I definitely have. I've seen a lot of celebrity endorsements and you can't miss the beautiful packaging. So anyway, welcome to the show, Lisa, so happy to have you. And you're joining us from Colorado at a beautiful wellness retreat. So how great is that?

Lisa Odenweller: 1:25

Perfect timing. Thank you, Amy and Katie, thrilled to be here. Excited for the conversation.

Amy: 1:30

Awesome. So before we start, we want to go into our nirvana of the week, which is just something that happened this week, or today or yesterday that brought us joy and made us feel good and make us kind of step back and appreciate those small moments. So I'm going to hand it to Katie to do her nirvana of the week.

Katie: 1:44

Thanks, Amy. Let's see. I was thinking about this. And I think it had to have been last weekend. Usually, I'm always with the kids and my husband on the weekend, which I love. But I had kind of a hectic week and I needed to like really wind down and recharge my batteries. And we moved into a house that has a pool. And it was the first day that my husband was like, why don't you just go relax, lay by the pool. I'll take the kids for the day, he took the kids into the city into New York. And I just hung out and read a great book and listen to my music and went swimming and just had the whole day of quiet self care like downtime. And it was really needed. And it was to be able to do it in my backyard. And my pool was so fun. And so cool. So that was my that was my Nirvana this week. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:32

I love that. Well, it's been definitely crazy with the end of school and getting my kids ready for camp and all the craziness. And my other child, which is my puppy dog Skye who everybody on the show knows because I talk about her all the time, who's now nine months, I took a walk with her the other day. And she's finally like walking better, which for those of you that have a puppy understand that they just don't walk straight, and they're all over the place. And you kind of just like an enjoyable walk. But she's learning and she's getting better. And all the training we've been doing with her has really been panning out. So I took a nice long nature walk, walk with her. And it was relaxed, and it wasn't pulling and she wasn't pulling. And I was like, I just feel good right now. And I came back and I was refreshed. So that was my little special moment of the week. What about you, Lisa?

Lisa Odenweller: 3:21

I love the question. And I think it's such an important thing to do, because we often forget to. And so in thinking about the question, I think there's probably if I can share two maybe. Course. So the first one my son, my middle child, who's 18 just graduated last week. I mean, you and I were talking about that earlier. And congratulations. Thank you. And it's it's such a I have three kids and my youngest is 17. So my oldest is 24. So I'm getting close to being an empty nester, which is freaking me out. So going through all sorts of emotions around that. But what was really so special within his graduation was he wrote a letter his freshman year, it's a project at school, and it was a letter to himself. And I had prompt with questions and zipped six page letter and they gave it back to him him the senior year. Oh my gosh, he gives you the letter and he was like, mom read this. And, you know, actually it was laughter It was you know, like emotional everything. But there was a point in it that said Who is the person that you admire the most? And his answer was me. And his answer was, you know, my tenacity and my resilience and how hard I work and how I won't give up and you know, I'm just I believe in you know, the ability you know, possibility right and and then it was so funny because he's like, you know, and and that's what keeps me up at night because he's always tinkering in the kitchen making something superfoods. And but it was just like, you know, as a parent, we, you know, there's so many I'm a single mom, right? And I started my last brand beaming when my kids were little was 1012 years ago. Right? And I was going through divorce at the time and my everything I did was all about the business and I missed a lot of moments, right I was just so frantic to build beaming and we opened 10 locations I think it took off like wildfire and and then I was living in LA and San Diego and my kids are in San Diego with me and I just hearing that made me really just pause because I think as parents we just have, I don't know, for me, I carry like the, the guilt of God. You know, I wish that I had played Legos one more time or right now I wish that when, you know, my daughter asked me to play picnic, you know, I played pickup more likely there's just you can't help I think as a parent to reflect on the woulda, coulda, shoulda us. And so hearing how much he admired me and looked up to me, and really and respected me. You know, despite the fact that maybe I didn't, that I missed a couple days or whatever it was was just really warmed my heart that it wasn't, you know, a total loss. And I've been entrepreneurial now for 12 years.

Amy: 6:01

Yeah, I think that's so special.

Lisa Odenweller: 6:03

So that was that was really, really special. And, and then I guess the other thing to just mention, as I'm you kind of touched on it, I'm at a wellness retreat in Colorado, called reset. And they invited me to come they're brand new, and it's hiking all week and healthy food and everything that I love, and I'm from Colorado in the mountains. So I'm in like, I am in Nirvana. And but what's been so special about it is I've been going so fast for three years building Kroma that, you know, I don't get the time to just Yes, I exercise. And yes, I eat well, but you know, I'm on a conference call, I'm on the spin biker, I'm on a power walk, you know, on a conference call, like I don't really disconnect. And so to be here this week, and have the opportunity to go on for our hikes every morning and not have your phone except just to take pictures. And and has been magical on top of the fact of just connecting with people. And the group that we've been with this week has been in absolutely amazing. And it's been mostly men, these guys, and then my girlfriend came with me. And we have laughed all week. And one of them's a comedian, I think they're all comedians really, but one is actually a professional comedian. And so it's just been, so what I needed to feel recharged going back in. And I think that's also something that we just, life moves so fast. And it was really hard for me to disconnect and come here and allow myself to do that. And then now being here, and it's our last day. So tomorrow we go home and just really being in gratitude for the week, and really how magical it has been. And this is really where your mind opens. And you not only get to recharge and sort of like fill your heart, but you also get to like, kind of come back fresh, and able to create even better. So.

Amy: 7:55

Yeah, and we're really it's incredible, and we're

Katie: 7:57

grateful that you're dialing in during your disconnect with us, we really appreciate it. Because I mean, honestly, it's to, to be able to shut out the rest of the world for a time of self reflection and everything that you're doing and just taking care of yourself. It must be heaven, it must be complete nirvana. So thank you for dialing in with us letting us interrupts that

Amy: 8:21

everything that you just said totally resonates with Katie and I because that is so much of what we think about and we're all moving so quickly. And I think when you do things like that, you're you're there and you're probably thinking to yourself, can I really need to do this more because it is so juvenile eating you just don't think about it if you're not doing it and then you're like, gosh, I need to like really intentionally make sure I do this so Katie, let's make a note we need to go to recess and I'm having Nirvana's sister retreat. But I love the mountains in Colorado and yeah, everything you're saying like totally my vibe

Lisa Odenweller: 8:56

oh my god that hike we went on today and I've been to Telluride so many times I'm from Colorado was so spectacular like I was just like you just there's nothing like nature

Amy: 9:05

to nothing like it I totally am on the same page we both are we love it. Okay, so tell us about this three year project you've been working on Kroma wellness and kind of tell us like what gap you are seeing in the market and kind of how it started and how you kind of came up with the idea

Lisa Odenweller: 9:23

Well I started before then a little bit or ice I've been in the industry for 14 years and really around food as medicine and how to make healthy tastes amazing and approachable and and sexy and you know make it something that really speaks to a rock buff broader audience I last grand beaming was a series of healthy Grab and Go cafes super food cafes in Southern California we grew it to 10 locations mostly in LA. And I've always had this just bigger vision of just how do we really wake people up to the power of food as medicine and and understand how What control we have over our health? Right and, and to, to challenge, you know, do I really need that medication? Maybe I'm allergic to gluten or maybe I'm having to add sugar or alcohol or whatever it might be. And I think we take for granted our health. And so for me, it's really that's the underlying kind of mission and why and everything that I've done over these last 14 years, starting with beaming What was amazing about beaming, it's beaming, changing vibes. And people were obsessed with this brand, or food was amazing, are we I was the first person that really kind of changed the juice cleansing because I would make me crazy. I was like, why are we drinking 222 grams of sugar a day? Like, yes, it's fruit, but it's still sugar. And so I came up with a food cleanse. And it was incredibly culinary inspired and partnered with lots of different chefs and, and really just elevated the experience because I think healthy has to be something that be being healthier, making healthy choices should be something you look forward to. So while beaming, was doing all of this good, and was such an amazing brand. And I sold it years ago to Earth bar. So that's why it's a was

Amy: 11:07

what I always I read that and it's so fun. I didn't realize that and I love our

Lisa Odenweller: 11:10

bar. So yeah, and it's not what I had with binning anymore, but I'm very proud of the brand that we built. It was really, uh, it still gets tough on the street everywhere. Like, aren't you the founder of being made? Because people Oh, that's so cool. That's with it. It was very special. But I had a vision of how do we take all the good, what beaming is doing, I was doing and really reach more people because we're not going to open cafes everywhere. And when you're dealing with perishables, it's very difficult business, you know, it's something that goes bad the next day or whatever that might be. So really wanted to take the good at what beaming was and reach more people. And so the birth of Kroma came from basically recreating beaming in a powder base form, and in many, many ways, I mean, you can't make salads at a powder. And you know, wraps and kelp noodles. But what I could do is take the nutrients, the super foods, all of the the nutrition of binning, and really recreate that in a powdered rice based format that is on the go. That is just requires no thinking. It's all nutrition foods and beverages where it's as easy as it gets. And you feel satiated and nourished and, and it tastes amazing, which is not easy to do when you're dealing with powders. Because I've been working with super foods for 15 years, 1415 years, I am just a geek in the kitchen with them, you know, and I get obsessed on what Tumeric we use or the plant protein from Ecuador that we use called choco or the organic ceremonial grade matcha, or the bone broth from Australia, like every single ingredient, it matters. And myself and my daughter are the ones that created every product of Kroma. So the three years was the two of us in the kitchen. Formulating we have 19 products. So we launched with we want with 14 products, late July last year 2021. So we've been around now for about well, 10 months, and you know, everything that goes into building a business, right, but you know, from the creative products to the brand to the packaging, to raising the money, all of the things we went to go raise money the day before the day before COVID, like hit in my gosh. And you imagine it was you know what, a march 3 or something in 2020. And, you know, you we pivoted, we can come back to that. But, you know, I thought we would launch faster. But you know, things just happen as they're supposed to it gave us time over the three years to not only create all the products, but also we did a beta with our five day reset, which is what we're most known for. So with all of the 19 products that we created, they're all 19 are in the five day reset, which is really about resetting and nourishment and teaching people how to eat and doing it in a way that you're not starved and that you're really like it in fact, people always complain and say our five day reset has too much food. And that's intentional. Right? We you get over 10 things a day, right? Whether it's a matcha with collagen and tumeric and ginger and that's what I'm drinking. That's what you're drinking. My favorite thing I can I literally like it everyone here has been drinking it. It's so delicious. But that is how you start your day or the porridge or the bras for lunch and dinner or the smoothies or the afternoon lattes and the elixirs. It's an abundant amount of food. It's customizable so that you can add what you want and you know add some protein and veggies if you need that everyone is different and so we've really designed it such that it meets your unique needs. So to create something that was very, very different in the market, you know, took a long time and a lot of thought and whole supply chain and just the intricacies of building a business, let alone that launching with this many products and a very complicated packaging system and raising money. So that was really all that has gone into really bringing us to our launch date of July 22 2021. And it's been an incredible crazy wild ride.

Amy: 15:23

Yeah, we Well congratulations, first of all, because that's just such an inspiring story. And I can't believe you're only I knew you're new but I didn't realize you were that new or not even a year yet from launch and it's funny because I had seen Kroma I probably just have like a really targeted Instagram feed but I had been seeing ads and like you know, celebrities influencers showing the packaging and the brand. I was like, Oh, that's so beautiful. What is that. And then Karla from Vogue was on our show, and she talked about she was raving about Kroma. She was saying Karla Martinez Desalas as she was saying she was on it. And then her husband was on it. And she we a lot of times we'll do product reviews on the show. So she was like giving us a whole review of it. I'm like, we got to try it because I had seen it but I hadn't like talked to anybody about it. So she got us really excited about it. And thanks to you and your team, you sent us a one day and I to your point, the one day I didn't finish the packets either like this is still leftover from the Wednesday because I found it the same thing. So satiating that I wasn't hungry, I couldn't eat the whole thing. And I was like, the food is really delicious. And you're right, very, very different than anything we've seen. Yeah, just Congrats to all your success so far. Well,

Lisa Odenweller: 16:34

I just wouldn't listen, I'm gonna close on that with like, I just, I think healthy has to taste amazing. And so, you know, the passion that has gone into creating those products and, and also changing the conversation, I think for women has been a really big one. And it's meant to, but really, for women that we don't have to starve ourselves to look and feel good in our bodies is is really important to me, it's something I've myself has struggled with, you know, my own kind of, you know, just were so self critical and and, you know, dealing with weight things and have I got too much weight on or how do I lose weight and starving myself and doing all of the crazy things that we have we do as women. And I really decided to change sort of the psychology of that and really focus on the nourishment and teaching us that putting really healthy good food our bodies actually is how our bodies thrive. And probably our our bodies look the best. And of course, how we feel are our best. So just a side story on that when I when I was doing the beta, so the 130 people went through it. And I was amazed in the process, how many women asked me, they would always ask how many calories is it? And when I would say and this is just our culture, right? When I would say well, you know, you can choose between the lifestyle, the lean, or the active protocols. And depending on how which format you choose, it's really about intuitive eating. But realistically, you're going to have somewhere between 1300 You know, likely and 1800 Probably in that window. And every woman that asked me that said, Oh, that's too much food. Wow. And it was such a pause for me because I realized that that was me too. Like I was afraid of food. You know, I didn't know how to eat. And I thought they said Well, I've been trying to lose weight, you know, for five years and nothing's working. And I said, Well, we you trust the process. And sure enough, you know, by adding the nut milks to their lattes, or their porridge and maybe adding some protein and veggies to their bras and not restricting themselves, and and listening to their body, every one of them lost at least five pounds, some of up to eight pounds, nourishing themselves. And it was such a beautiful moment for them, you know, and then of course for me because it really is changing people's, you know, relationship with food. And I think that's just an important part of the conversation as far as just why we exist in Kroma. Yeah,

Amy: 19:00

it's super important. And it is it is a good mindset mindset shift and it's good to remember that because I think you're you're so right kidding, we were just talking about that earlier today. Like a can't lose like that pound or two or whatever. And I think to the older you get like I'm noticing the older I get it is just your body changes so much and just reacts so differently to foods that like I don't even know what to eat half the time because it's like I have a car by gained five pounds I don't have a car or I have a car by lose weight. Like I just it's really hard to know if what you're eating for your body is right or not right so like focusing on not that but the nourishment piece and making sure that you're getting what you need. It's like that constant reminder and that's really important.

Lisa Odenweller: 19:43

It is and it's also like I mean because we become we can become erotic and I'm like no one of them right. But then you know we I also have a mindset that it's not like we're going to live on Kroma all the time. I mean, I do have Kroma, you know, 567 times a day. But I don't worry if I go out for fun, you know, festive dinner and you know, have some wine or tequila or something, you know, I really look at it more of a balance. And I think that's just also an important part of that conversation. Right? It's it's not about that restriction. Interestingly, I was in New York a few weeks ago for work, and I was there for like, eight days. And every night you know how New York is when the food's amazing? Yeah, eating dinner, I don't think we ate dinner before. 930. Now I eat dinner at five at home like but no later than six. Right? We ate dinner at 931. Night was at 1230 after a show. And somehow I lost weight. And I was and I didn't wasn't restricted, like I ate anything I wanted, right? I had Kroma in the day. And then I did the dinners at night. And it was such, like, I just laughed, right? Because it was also because I was having fun. We were walking a ton, you know, and it was just like, just allow ourselves to enjoy, like, not be so neurotic about it. And, you know, it, it just is a constant reminder to me, you know, and my Kroma for sure definitely has helped supplement, you know, and works very well. Well, for me, and especially as I've gotten older, and Amy like you said it things change. Children and everything starts to change. Yeah, I think

Katie: 21:15

the the idea also of nourishment, it, it just allows your body to receive what it needs to be balanced, and to do all of the jobs that it's meant to do physiologically, in order to have the ability to stay healthy and to lose the weight and to for the metabolism to function properly and everything. It's really a genius idea. And you know what, I love that you did this with your daughter. And that's that's the coolest thing. I mean, working with her, what's that experience been like?

Lisa Odenweller: 21:44

Well, what's even cooler is she's 24 now, and she's been working with me since she was 13. So she started gaming with me, and you know, labeling bottles and, you know, packing teas and stuff when we started gaming out of the house, and you know, with her friends, and then working at the first Cafe when she was 14. And then at 16 She's She homeschooled herself by choice. And I moved to LA with me to open all the cafes there and manage to the Santa Monica location and at 16. So she's been on this entrepreneurial journey with me, you know, for now 11 years. You know, she did the, the she did College Online, and, you know, started to Kroma with me while she did that. So, I mean, we laugh. I mean, they that's probably almost my favorite part of creating this, this business has been doing it side by side with her, and all the experiences we get to have together, and the laughter and hopefully, you know, she's also learning a lot of things, you know, being side by side, the thing is, I do investor pitches, or I do podcast interviews, or all the different things that you know, she gets exposed to, because she

Amy: 22:51

also Yeah, it's an incredible experience. Oh

Katie: 22:53

my gosh, it's and also you're raising her with such like healthy values for body image and caring for herself and taking care of her body. And, you know, those are, like young girls are very impressionable, and it's very confusing, as they're, you know, my daughter's eight going on nine, and she's already starting to talk about going

Amy: 23:16

on 25

Katie: 23:18

You know, the word like, I'm fat, or I'm too skinny, or I'm gonna, you know, it's like the self image stuff comes out early. It really does. Yeah,

Lisa Odenweller: 23:25

that's Jeff with her body and food and much better than I did, you know, younger and, and so I She's got so much wisdom. And hopefully, you know, I'm part of some of that. But no, that has been a really great part of this whole experience.

Amy: 23:41

Yeah, that's now that she helped you with all the branding and packaging, which is gorgeous, and, and sexy. Like I said earlier, it's sexy. Yeah,

Katie: 23:51

sexy. And it was like that. That's exactly what it is. It's so beautiful. And it's sexy, and it's edgy, it's great. It's very enticing.

Lisa Odenweller: 24:00

I mean, we wanted you to have that sort of Apple experience, right. And we have, you know, we've got simpler packaging. And then we have the WoW with the drawer and the ones with the wheels and what's on Instagram. But I want health to be something that you are excited about that you look forward to. And so often, it's something we dread, because it's like, Oh, I gotta do this program for five days, and I'm going to be miserable, and I'm not going to eat. And I'm going to be a raving bitch, excuse my French. And you know, I'm not going to show up for my kids or my work or all these things. And that's sort of the mindset of what cleansing and detoxing has been over the years. And, and so, you know, all of our investors invested because they had done another program. I won't name it that they hated, but it was the only program on the market and they had an extra box in the pantry and they were so thrilled that there was something else that they actually got the same results actually better. And it changed habits and behavior, which is really what we're doing. It's not about a quick fix. So to get that Bob's going back to your question, Amy really is that Experience of, I get to do this, right? I want you to feel like this is a gift to yourself. And every one of the sachets, the 45 little packets, who has a message of education and inspiration that I wrote, you know that that is really just part of those little kind of little surprises, right, surprise and delights. And Lexi was part of all of that. She didn't design the branding and stuff, but she's been part of all of it, you know, through through every step of the way. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, I

Amy: 25:28

like that idea. You're right. It is like opening up a gift. Because it's so beautiful. It's not like all like, the palette of colors is gorgeous. And the packets, it's like, it's fun to open and you're like, Ooh, what's next? So that's, that's very smart. Question about so there's the one day which Katie and I did there's a five day is the five day that was pepper like, How do you How are people using Kroma? Are they using it as just like a detox or reset? Are they on it more often? Or they like How are people using it, and what's the best way for like someone to get started, if they don't, if they haven't done it,

Lisa Odenweller: 26:00

it was designed for lifestyle. So as I touched on earlier, I mean, I think of it as the five day leads to the every day, or leads to the habits, change of habits and behavior. i And I've always cared more about what happens after than, than the five days, because the five days is really where the awakening happens, you do the program for five days, you we all want that quick fix, you know, to kind of like look better, feel better, fast, right? And so it gives you that, but you're doing it in a way that you're also changing, like kind of having these awakenings through the process of like, God that tastes really good. Like I could eat this porridge every day, or you're a big coffee drinker. And but we didn't take caffeine away from you, because I know that that's going to give you headaches, you're gonna be miserable. And you'd go right back there on day six. So we're gonna give you caffeine, but we're gonna give you a healthier caffeine, we're going to give you matcha with all the college and the tumeric, and the mushrooms and all those things that hopefully, and seems to be the case people love it. And they end up converting to it after because they felt the difference. You've experienced it for five days in a row, you felt what it felt like to drink Matcha instead of coffee, I don't have an issue with coffee. But the point being is, I know that matcha is so much better for you, right and improves the mood and you don't have that crash and you have this kind of sustained energy and your mind is clear. I mean, I think it's the best mood enhancer on the planet. And it tastes delicious. So if that's how you get to start your day, you actually look forward to it and the porridge is delicious. And the cookie butter of course we're very famous for is to die for, to die for. And then the bras and so what happens is, is people are doing it, it was designed so you find the things that you love on the program, you get that quick fix, you know you feel better look better fast, but then you have all the tools to continue. And so you fall in love with the Masha, it's available to buy in bulk after you can use the porridge after you can incorporate the broth and the Greens powder and elixirs or smoothies or whatever it might be that you loved from the program that you could easily incorporate into your life. And so it becomes very lifestyle and easy transition. So that you have these new kind of hacks or tricks to to look forward to adding into your day, right. It's not an obligation, it's something people are excited to do. So the way people come into Kroma is really usually the five day that's, you know, our number one selling product. It's what people sort of have seen on Instagram for one, but it's also just sort of like, it really speaks to people wanting to to reset, you know, or start better habits or maybe lose a few pounds for something or just know that they've been off track and they need to get back on track, whatever the reason is, so that is our number one. And then that leads into those. Those lifestyle products. We call them daily essentials. And, you know, there's there's the favorites of many, which I mentioned that people love, and we just try to make it as easy as possible to transition. Because for someone who has been in the industry for so long, and I've watched these cleanses, the question I've always asked is what is the point? Like? Are we cleansing just to lose weight? Like to me, it's about a lifestyle wellness. It's not what you do five or 10 or 15 days a year because you did A a box cleanse for five days and you lost five pounds? Who cares? Like that's not where you have true? Well, you know, wellbeing and vitality and it's about like how do I transition this into my everyday life? So that is something that just sort of weaves into my life as opposed to this thing that I do, you know, a few days a year right? I've always really approached it beaming cafes with the same way is it started with a cleanse that led to this cafes that led to people incorporating it every day and and that way I think it just makes it much more approachable and realistic. And it's actually where real transformation happens.

Amy: 29:59

Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, I'm a healthy eater. But sometimes, you know, like you said, you get off track, like, especially now it's a summer, I feel like we're going out to dinner more, and I'm drinking more and eating more. And it's just like, sometimes even though I eat healthy, I still want something where I that I can always go back to like a reset like that, where I'm five days, and I kind of like, get it all out. And then I start integrating. I love that idea. And then you kind of take like, the porridge was amazing. And yes, the cookie butter is phenomenal. And the problem is, it's like how do you not eat the whole jar? Because I was just like, oh my god, this is incredible. I can't stop eating it.

Katie: 30:38

The cookie butter is really like an energy boosting, mood stabilizing, like sustained blood sugar balancing, like I would take some of that take a spoonful of it. And like 20 minutes later, half an hour later, I felt really good to go. And so are they they're called goji berries. Is that right? That goji berries

Lisa Odenweller: 30:59

in the porridge and in the cookie butter,

Katie: 31:01

it's so I love I've tried to eat them on their own before because I know they're supposed to be a superfood, I think are loaded with antioxidants or something you would know better than I. But in that cookie butter there, it's there like a game changer. It's so good.

Amy: 31:14

I know. It's like it's like the perfect technique.

Lisa Odenweller: 31:17

So it's almond butter, coconut butter, coconut oil, plant protein from Ecuador that I mentioned earlier. Goji berries, hemp seeds. So those are the main ingredients. And then there's just a little bit of maple sugar, a little bit of coconut sugar, and just enough to kind of give you that little kind of sweet fix. But yeah, being you know, high sugar because everything we do is very low sugar.

Amy: 31:40

And exact, it's a good thing to have after dinner too. Like if you just feel like you want a little sweet, you just have a spoonful and you'd like

Lisa Odenweller: 31:46

like I do the I had the beauty matcha. And then I have a because you can, I don't know if you guys do it when it's gooey, and just have it like a like a cookie butter batter. Or if you put in the fridge, you can have like little little protein mites. I love it gooey. So I have a bite of that, then I'll usually do an exercise, you know, whatever my workout is going to be. And then you know later because I'm pretty sustained at that point, then I'll have the porridge and weave into my day. But it is it's a fun product. And it's again, we're just trying to make healthy something that you really look forward to that it's a little bit of a surprise, like I get to have this really?

Katie: 32:17

Yeah, you're doing an excellent job of it. Because it's that's exactly what it feels like the plant protein. I haven't heard of that one. Can you tell me why that you've chosen that specific one? What did you say the name of it was again,

Lisa Odenweller: 32:30

it's called choco okay. So why I love it, and I'll kind of backstory to how I found it. But it's non isolates. So not, you know, doesn't have the processing that you know, protein and somebody that are proteins have. It's also non lectin. And a lot of people are really sensitive to lectins and don't even know it. And the problem with pea protein, which is the main plant protein that's in everything is most pea protein is highly, highly processed, you can find some that are not properly sprouted, but that's like few and far between. And it's really, really cheap product, which is why everybody uses it. And it's easy to formulate with. I am not a huge fan. So for me, I was on a mission to find other sources of plant protein. And yeah, there's so many now, Sacha inchi, and there's pumpkin. And there's hemp, and chia and rice and all these things, but each one of them have different kind of pros and cons. And so I just decided I sort of like put up to the universe, like, is there another option, and randomly kind of came across this choto. And it's all the things I was looking for, like really easy on the digestion, nine out of nine essential amino acids.

Katie: 33:46

It was my next each and that's amazing.

Lisa Odenweller: 33:48

And it's and it's it, it's so pure, and it's grown at 10,000 feet elevation in Ecuador, like it's not as easy to work with as pea protein, you know, from a from a flavor, it's pretty bland and flavor, which is a good thing. But as a kind of superfood chef, I guess it's harder, you know, to kind of get some of the flavor. So there was a lot of doctoring if you will to try to get some of the smoothies to taste really good because it's pea protein just a lot easier and a lot cheaper than Jojo, but the way I've approached Kroma and beaming has always been the best of the best. And so I will scour the world for the best ingredients and find things that people have never heard of, and then put combinations together that really bring together that flavor and function, you know, with the highest integrity, and that's just been something that's sort of a personal mantra of mine that I will I won't sacrifice.

Katie: 34:46

And that's also I'm sure why you've had so much success with it and why so many people keep coming back to it right the product is the quality is yeah, the utmost importance. It's amazing.

Amy: 34:56

I was going to ask you to what I noticed with the products is that or at least I haven't tried them all. But the ones that I tried, they're all like kind of soft and soothing, because let's like the broth and the elixirs and the matcha. Which I love. Is that intentional?

Lisa Odenweller: 35:13

Yes. I mean, I think it's designed to be a menu that easily fits into your day, right. And whether you have your matcha warm, iced or hot, it's totally up to you. You know, whether you you know, have your porridge warm or cold, it's totally up to you. So we sort of give it the flexibility versatility also seasonally, you know, so that you can sort of make it up. But I would just really want you to feel nourished. We want you to feel like when you drink that bone broth, right? I mean, it's so incredible, or the veggie broth, I think because that's in the one day, you just feel like you're doing something good for your body. Like you drink it. You're like God, I feel like satiated, I feel nourished. And you just sort of feel like it's a gift. And we want you to feel that way. So yeah,

Amy: 35:56

yeah, it's really filling. I was surprised. very filling. And yes, Si Si Si satiated. That's the right word she is.

Katie: 36:06

So I want to know what the future plans are for Kroma wellness. I mean, you guys are about to hit your year mark, which is amazing. Congratulations. So what's on the horizon?

Lisa Odenweller: 36:17

Well, I think when you launch with 19 products, I mean, we've got a new power mine performance coffee coming out in a few weeks, which is coffee with MCT oil and some oat milk and mushrooms and you know, sort of our super enhanced healthy coffee instant, of course. And we have our travel kits coming out which I'm so excited about. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, amazing. With and a lot of people buy our five day, we have a new refill that they buy, and they get the 45 sachets, and then they just take them with them, especially for the summer. It's perfect for travel. But the little the travel kits are something that we'll be able to have at airports, and we'll be able to have it, hotels and you know, different flex, obviously online as well, that are just your, you know, I think it's six sachets, and there's gonna be a little shaker thing that goes with it that just makes it so easy to travel with. So with travel kits coming out. And I think you know, the bigger vision obviously, for the brand, as we're just getting started, you know, when you not many people try to launch with 19 products. I don't recommend it not. Over we have five co packers and a very complex packaging system, as you guys have seen, and we have 45 Different color sachets, and someone has to hand place them in there, every different color. And so we didn't we didn't do this easy. And I think there's just so much more just on the education side. And really helping people understand, you know, what they're putting in their body, why they're putting it and you know, what, why, how to live this lifestyle. We have an app that we launched a few months ago. And we'll continue to build on that. And it's really there to support people in the five day in the one day. But we'll continue to evolve that and the educational side of this, for me is very, something I'm very passionate about. And will continue to innovate. I mean, I'm I'm a creator. So there's a lot of really cool products in in the mind that, you know, will will start to get teased out, you know, over the course of the year. And we'll continue to expand on that. But, you know, it's a lot. I mean, we having only been here for 10 months, and users just with learning the marketing side of DTC and even the way that I approached fundraising was very, very different and right, because you

Amy: 38:34

went from the physical world to the digital world completely. I mean, it's a

Lisa Odenweller: 38:38

very different world. Yeah, and I joke about that. I mean, there's, there's some not dealing with perishables and dealing with non perishables is much easier. But in a cafe, like, I know how to create an experience in a cafe, creating an experience online is very, very different. And people are, you know, short, short, short attention spans, you have two seconds to get their attention. And then they're getting, you know, getting hit from something all sides. So even just, I've been drinking out of a firehose, learning the DVC world and trying to build that team, you know, has been a different challenges than say, you know, running 10 cafes. And then I love the challenge of that, but definitely, you know, we're just, we're just building our team right now. Getting excited for the next chapter, we have the most incredible group of investors. They've been a huge part of our success to date and our go to market strategy, which was also part of my strategy when I was raising money and wanted to raise money from highly influential people. Whether it's a big celebrity like Gwyneth or Amy Schumer, you know, some of our other investors or the mom and the community, you know, people who would get excited about telling the world with us, and and they really all have and so a lot of our success getting it out there, as you mentioned early on, Amy and seeing it on Instagram has been just the support of that investor community. you and them telling their friends, it's very hard to launch a brand. It's getting harder and harder to do that. And so I really took it from a very different approach. And, and that's worked very, very well, to just getting getting the word out there. It's it's not easy to build these days.

Amy: 40:18

It's really smart. Let me speaking of your team, so the advisory team that you have I saw on your website will Kol and some others really notable people in the wellness space? Are they all investors too, or they play a different role in your company? Yeah,

Lisa Odenweller: 40:31

they do, actually, Dr. Will Cole, medical director. So he's also an investor, and just very committed and dedicated to to what we're doing. You know, even the celebrities, everyone was asked me well, like, do we pay that? Like, no, they actually, like they invested in the company, I woke up to an email one day from from Gwyneth saying that she had heard that I had a new wellness company, and that could I, you know, come over and share more, because she loved my last brand, you're like, Okay, well, then I'll say and it was it was a, it was a, it was sort of a dream moment, was not friends with her at the time. So through one of our other investors, they connect with us. And, and so it's just part of even bringing something to life is just being surrounded by such good positive energy, and we're 90% funded by women. And that's something I'm super, super proud of. And, you know, just having that support has been, you know, credible, because we have, you know, as we're, as we, you know, things are going really well, that's always amazing and having their support. But then also, as you have challenges come up, we are we've such incredible experts of all different, you know, facets that we're able to tap into that, to really help us kind of navigate through different challenges.

Amy: 41:46

It's also so nice that everyone it sounds like is in the same, what's the word I'm looking for, like ethos, and, like around wellness, which is nice to be around like minded people that you can have these conversations with and create things and everyone's sort of on the same page, which is unusual, because a lot of times when people invest in a company, it's it's just they're doing it for, you know, the financial return, but they're not doing it necessarily for the passion around wellness, or whatever it may be. So that's really special show,

Lisa Odenweller: 42:13

ya know, it makes a huge difference. And every one of the investors did the beta program, fell in love with the products, the experience of it, and then invested, you know, from from that. And so they are, you know, invested in, in the vision of the company, and what we're doing and the impact, and then of course, the upside potential as well. But it definitely makes a difference I have now having raised money for two companies, I made some big mistakes on my first one. And you know, I was new to raising money, I'd never done it before. And so I got to learn some hard lessons that I made sure not to repeat, you know, this time around. So

Katie: 42:50

it's very inspiring. I want to know, for our listener, because they're all gonna want to hurry up in order Kroma. Where should they start? Should they start? What do you think is? Or do you find most people go right into the five day? Or do you have a lot of people just dip their toe in with the one day what's what do you think?

Lisa Odenweller: 43:08

I think so again, it was designed to meet you where you're at, right? So if you're curious about launch, and you just want to try and launch because you've seen it, people talk about it, or we obsess on it on this podcast, it's a great place to start, you know, or the cookie butter or any others. But I really think that the way that you experience Kroma and then of course, the benefits of Kroma is to the five day. And there's three options. Now in the five day, there's the deluxe with the drawer and the really fancy version, which is an amazing, that's always how I recommend starting because you get the mug and the frother and the little hemp purse with a beautiful poem po on it, and you get a spoon and you get the coconut cream. So you get sort of the full experience and the chai, there's also the the signature, which is also the same program, it just doesn't have the drawer with all the extras. And then we have the new refill, which is a very, very simple packaging design. Mostly for people who have who've already done it before, and they've just really want the program they don't need the big experience. So yeah, I mean, any one of those, I mean, you guys got the one day and the one day is great. I think it's a great way if you're not fully ready or committed. And it was designed for people for that purpose. It was designed that maybe every Monday you do it, use it for travel, however, you know you that best fits for where you're at. But I think the five day it's really special. It is more expensive, you know, than some of the other programs out there. But it's also like we've been talking about very, very abundant, so you're going to have plenty of food leftover and you probably can keep going for multiple days. And it was designed for that versus you know, starving and you know, finishing day six and you can't wait for burgers and fries. So Right.

Amy: 44:52

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's all about that. nourishments before we get into our rap session, I wanted to ask you so outside of perma wellness Being that you've been in this space superfood space for so long and healthy eating and you know, all good foods, what have you, like? What's a tip you've picked up through the years like, for healthy eating that kind of would be helpful you think, to our listeners? Well, the

Lisa Odenweller: 45:18

basic like a basic one is I think that we don't. This is what came to mind. We, we trust marketing too much. And so when something says it's organic, or it's, I mean, you don't it makes me crazy, like hydration. I think I have him over here that these are not mine that came in the room. And this hydration company is super, super popular. And you look at the first ingredient, and it's cane sugar. And you know, and that makes me crazy. Right. And I so I think one of the great places to start is just read your labels. I mean, look at what's in your food. And, you know, understanding that it most stuff is not actually made very well, sadly. And to really kind of just take health into your own hands, like, ask questions, be informed, right, you don't have to be an expert. But you know, be, you know, be very curious about what's in your food. You know, something else I'll layer on to that is, I'm sure you guys and others have heard of all these glucose monitors, whether it's levels or it's neutral scents. And those are very popular. I cannot recommend enough how to get one and try it for two weeks or do it for a month. Because what you learn I have one on right now and I wear them all the time. Because I love I test my food, right we did it when we tested Kroma to make sure it didn't spike your glucose levels. Because the other program that's out there right now that's very popular spikes your glucose levels to 161 ad, which is really not healthy. Again, you think you're doing something healthy, and it's sending your glucose levels to through the roof, which is anti anything we want, right? Things that you'll learn, you know, you'll learn about everyone's bodies a little bit different, but there's things that you think are healthy, like oats, like oat milk, and oatmeal will send your everyone's glucose levels through the roof, right. And you don't want that. And I love oat milk, it tastes delicious, but I don't drink it because I know what's going to happen. And I may not physically feel it, a lot of times people can feel it. But I know it's working against me in my own health. Whether it's aging, weight loss, or just weight management even and you don't want these huge spikes. So I think the more you are educated, and just understanding how food affects you is is really a lot of what Chrome was about, but my own sort of personal awareness of just, then I can then I have control that I know and can make this you know, as opposed to just assuming that it's healthy, that it's good for me because a lot of times it's not.

Amy: 47:56

I never thought about wearing a glucose monitor. But Katie, this is right up your alley. You've been dealing with this for the last couple of weeks,

Katie: 48:01

I've been checking my blood sugar constantly all day long. And I'm about to order which one are you using on your arm?

Lisa Odenweller: 48:08

I haven't nutritions on right now. But levels is probably the more popular one, either one are great levels or neutral cents. And I there's a couple other ones that I'm thinking I'm blanking on now. But I think it's like even testing the food here. You know, I've been sort of educating the at this at this wellness retreat I've been educating them about as like, I think you should wear other monitors because you want to understand what the who is doing, you know, to your guests.

Katie: 48:36

The stabilizing of the blood sugar, right for the listener that maybe isn't aware like that's that's the point of knowing what food is doing. Like you said earlier, the spikes up and down. Because when your blood sugar goes really high, you then can crash very quick. Right? And then your body craves more sugar. So if you're getting like the wrong signals, right, is that is that how you would describe the reason?

Lisa Odenweller: 48:59

No. And it's and it creates this horrible cycle? You know, I mean, I love rice crackers, right? So cheese board with rice crackers like heaven, right? Those rice crackers will send my glucose I still choose to have them sometimes, right like, but I understand that that was a choice. And so just even having the awareness of it because that up and down cycle is really affects your kind of your metabolic flexibility. It affects you know, insulin levels, the impact is so, so much more significant than than we even understand. So what you want us to stay in that range, really in that 70 to 120 Most people jump I mean, I

Amy: 49:38

you could jump Yeah, I can imagine what minds that I'm sure it's all over the place.

Lisa Odenweller: 49:42

And if you see that on your chart, you're like, I don't think I'll read that again. And you know, and sometimes you will at big you know, right but at least you're educated or educated and yeah, sir, are those things I mean to kill a lowers your glucose levels, so that's exciting. So

Amy: 49:58

that's a good excuse. Have a

Lisa Odenweller: 50:02

modulo or is it? So there's definitely a few tricks tricks in here. But there's a long answer, but hopefully a little bit helpful.

Amy: 50:10

No, that's really interesting. I'm definitely going to try that. Katie, the product that you were talking about a couple shows ago illumine does that monitor your blood sugar, glucose to

Katie: 50:21

that, that just measures your co2, which tells you if you are in a fat burn state or carb burning state, so it's different than a blood sugar monitor. But yeah, I mean, also another amazing tool for data points. I do yeah. Yeah, I do like it. It's great.

Amy: 50:38

Do you like the loom? And Lisa? I haven't used it yet. But I think they commend sitting here. And we used to

Lisa Odenweller: 50:42

do there. Yeah. I mean, it goes back to the point of this conversation. And all that times. I'm like, because I'm working so much, and like, barely come out, like see the world. But I think that the point is, it's just that there's so many tools out for us, there's some of the problem is that there's so much information that we get overwhelmed. We don't do anything, right. So Trump just starting with a few things. Because, you know, being educated as is power, right, and then you're making mindful choices, you know, in all aspects of life. So, you know, I don't think you have to dive in as much as maybe we all do. But I think that there's enough tools out there. And that's part of what we do with promos, like, we're going to do it for you. We're gonna make it so easy. You don't have to think right. You don't have to think about like, Oh, here's the recipes I have to make today. Right? It's like, let's just make this simple. Because what I want you to do is have the experience that that inspires the curiosity for more.

Katie: 51:37

Before we go into our rap session, I'm just really curious, was there something in your life in your health journey that got you into that? What was it that that made you so passionate about this health and wellness and providing it for, for people for a greater cause?

Lisa Odenweller: 51:55

Yeah, no, thanks for asking. I think so. Starting with when I was, I don't know, probably as a teenager, I always wanted to feel like I had control over my health. Like I was always afraid, like, I wanted a doctor, and then they tell me something bad. And so I think I didn't really understand what that meant. But I didn't like not having control. I wanted to feel empowered with my health. Fast forward to about 38. And I went to the gynecologist and she, this is before, I mean, quite a bit older now. And I we weren't as educated as we are now there's still a long way to go. I went to that ecologist and I was gaining weight, my hair was falling out, I was having total brain fog. My work, I've always been very, very fit and very mindful about what I eat. But you know, I had a lot of inflammation and other things going on. And she laughed. I said, you know, what, what do you think's going on? Can we do some blood tests? And she laughed at me and she said, Oh, Lisa, you're just getting older. This is part of and I like I still like that makes me furious when I think about that. Because that was the answer of the of the Western doctor. And I was like, ya know, that answer doesn't work for me. And so I sort of many things kind of happened along the way that kind of led me on my journey to really understand food as medicine. And starting with just kind of making some simple changes, removing gluten and sugar and dairy, and things that are inflammatory. And in triggers that can that will absolutely impact everyone, especially as we get older that when we don't digest as well. And the body is not as optimized as it was maybe when I was younger, right? So just starting to make those simple shifts and seeing the impact, like all of a sudden, like I didn't need an indeed hormone medication, right. Like I actually never have taken hormones ever. Like I use food as medicine. There's a place for Western, but I just you know, I do take thyroid medication, I couldn't fix that one with food. But there is like we're so quickly go to the medication. And so for me, it was an awakening, I was able to heal myself and reduce inflammation, the foggy brain, the weight, gain all the things that she told me I was getting old, right, basically. And then there's another big catalyst one and for anyone who's a mom, and you guys can probably really will resonate. My daughter who I've talked about, she went on to add medication when she was nine. And at the time, I was not educated at all, she was 24. So this was you know, 15 years ago, and it made me crazy as a mom, I just thought this is not right. I don't why does she have to take medication I went to five doctors every one of them said there's no choice she has to take the medication. And in intuitively I knew it was wrong. But I didn't know what to do. So fast forward go she's on the medication for a year and all of a sudden it causes a mood disorder. So now the answer is we're going to put on mood disorder medication and now as a mother I'm like everything about this is wrong. So of course she goes on a mood disorder medication and now my daughter is like I mean I use the word catatonic like literally had no like bliss for life was just like robotic. And that's where you just say, No, this is none of none of this is okay. And that's when I really dove into really dove in. And that was the catalyst for starting beaming, actually was sort of it started with me things, but it really led to understanding that food, the food can either be medicine or it can be poison, right. And in the case of anything where there's add, or anything, you know, in the brain, it's things like gluten and sugar and dairy, and processed foods. I mean, we were feed their kids goldfish wholegrain. Goldfish, we thought it was good for them or weekends, right? We didn't know. So when you remove those things that are inflammatory triggers, or, God forbid, those, those goldfish and all the colors and the dyes, right, or sodas or something, right? You remove all of those, her brain worked fine. Within two weeks of taking all of that out of her diet. She never she she's never gone back on any medications. And he can feel a difference. She knows if she goes out and has pizza or pasta or something, she'd I feel the same to we, if we get in touch with our bodies, we actually can we know how we feel and how food affects us. And so that moment for me and seeing it was it wasn't I was angry, actually, I was angry at and medicine. But at no point in any conversation was there, hey, why don't we see if she's sensitive to food? Why don't we start there first, before we started medicating her. And that's a very, that's very common. I mean, we're making some breakthroughs. But we have so much further to go. And that sort of goes back to the beginning of what you asked me my, my why is I want people to be educated, I want people to take health into their own hands and to challenge and realize that it doesn't always have to come in a pill. And it probably starts with food, and we can do so much more healing with food. So it was through that, that I realized I have to I have to do something with this information. And I have to share it in a way that I can really have impact without being preachy, you know, without being you know, annoying, because then that's going to turn people off too. So I thought, well, I'll just create really delicious, healthy food that is really good for you and help you feel the difference. And then hopefully that builds on itself. But those that's really was some of the backstory of of how I dove into wellness, as is sort of my mission and why in life.

Amy: 57:30

It's actually a really interesting concept because both Katie's daughter has ADHD, and so does my son who's older now. And he did take medication when he was younger. And same thing, I didn't want him to be on it. But I didn't know what else to do. And I had heard about the food stuff, but I wasn't really sure. And as a boy, it's just like really hard to get him to do any of that kind of stuff. So he was on medicine for you for a few years. He didn't like the way it made him feel. And he went off of it. And he's able to use older and I think going through puberty and maturity, he's able to like now have strategies that help him. But I would love to I mean, I don't know how I get him at 15, almost 16 years old to like, listen to me with food, but you know, he eats fairly healthy, but then you know, it's also like the junk and the whatever, that all the teenage boys are eating. And it's like, I know that if he took some things out of his diet, like the sugar and the whatever, he would have so much more focus. But what I was thinking as you were saying this, I'm like, there's so many children with ADHD that are on medication that their parents don't want them to be on. Like, it's almost like you could have a Kroma Jr. for kids that same idea, but like more kid focus, where like they would want to take it because I think kids and parents would want to do that. There's just not a lot out there about it. It's like you can read stuff online, but you're not really sure. And to your point, none of the doctors asked that question. They're just like therapy and drugs. I mean, and it's, it's horrible. It's

Lisa Odenweller: 58:53

horrible. It's horrible. And I yeah, I know, you're, I understand sort of the pain of this and too, and yes, I mean, we don't know where to go. And it's it hasn't made it easy, and they're not. They're not helping us make the better decisions, right. So we have to go figure it out on our own. The way that I did it just sort of as an idea, because I have two teenage boys and one of them nosey as ABD. And it's very, it's been very difficult with him. But what I what I've done with the kids is, let's, let's, let's, you know, let's play a game. Let's let's have Let's experiment, like what would happen if we removed the gluten and the sugar and the dairy for two weeks? Because it's done in a in a in a controlled space, then they're like, alright, and they know, and then they get to feel how different it is. They get to experience Oh, wait, like my brain. It was a lot easier to do that test or it was a lot easier to read that that book. So they feel like they're part of that process. That's one way to do it. That's a great idea. Yeah. So you know, then then it's not like just taking it away. They get to really, you know, experience, you know, right.

Amy: 1:00:01

And then they can decide like, oh, that actually does make me feel better. And yeah, it's an accident

Lisa Odenweller: 1:00:07

on a conversation of add is that there is a clinic called the online clinic. And they have, I think they have in New York and they have long beach, it's a couple different things done, Daniel, Dr. Daniel, amen. But you can actually go and have your brain scanned, and find out that there are six types of ADD. And if you can understand what type you have, it also then influences the type of kind of healing or therapy for it. That's interesting, that's something that you know, you have access to or the means to do, I think that is the most, the, the most amazing way to sort of approach it and really have a knowledge, the food is foundational, right across the board. But then there's different things like omegas, or different supplements that you can use to actually help with the brain function that will kind of further further accelerate the the healing of it, and you can get to the point where you don't need it anymore. So there are a lot of tools out there. It's just unfortunately, not as is spoken about as we'd like. So

Katie: 1:01:15

I feel like we could talk about this for the next three hours. But we're excited to get to it. And I think way more important. Yeah, we need to have you back.

Amy: 1:01:25

Yeah. Let's give you our quick fire. Questions. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Even though you've told us a million? What's your favorite?

Lisa Odenweller: 1:01:33

I've such a broken record, the macho, like, says it like it just completely changes my day. And it's changed my health, and I have a mission to get the world to drink much. So that's it, love

Amy: 1:01:47

it. Love it. Okay, the next one we call our five minute flow. So you just got out of the shower, dried off, Uber alerted. You get the ping on your phone, you have five minutes to get ready and get out the door. What are your go to is like, What products do you throw on to just kind of like, get ready and get out of the door quickly?

Lisa Odenweller: 1:02:03

Oh, that's great. Um, oh, my gosh, what do I do? I'm the worst with brand. If it's brand name brands, I couldn't tell you what brands. So I started like the I did a podcast with Molly Sims. And she was like, I'm not going to tell you the beauty things like, you know them, you told me. So I always will have I mean, I have this new I wish I had it here like I have this new face stuff that I've been using that is like, changed my skin. And this was so mean for me to say this, because I cannot tell you what it was like the biggest tease. I'll try to remember that you can put in the notes. But what does it look like? I probably don't even know. It's like from France, and Georgia Louise. She's a esthetician that works with a lot of my investors. And so I had a thing with her. And she basically put all and I've had bad skin my whole life. So this has been like transformative, the matcha. And this has been transformative. And so whatever these products are, that will add in the notes later. I have to have mascara, I have to have lipstick. And I always put some sort of like tinted, you know, sunscreen moisturizer on like, those are like yeah, and then my eyebrows. Those are like my, if I only have a few minutes to get out. Lots of times I'll have my hair in a ponytail. Just because I don't have time to do it. And I live in VR clothes. Like that was my my go to if I don't have to be like, you know, fully dressed up which these days I think, you know, we don't

Katie: 1:03:33

the expectation none of us do. Right?

Amy: 1:03:35

Oh, I know. Like totally.

Lisa Odenweller: 1:03:39

I don't know if that was helpful, but I will find out the name of some of these products. Yeah,

Amy: 1:03:42

no, no, that's great. Fun. It's always just fun to hear different routines. And then how do you maintain your daily nirvana? You're so busy?

Lisa Odenweller: 1:03:50

Oh, I don't know that I do, honestly. And so I think what I try to do is, is it my days are crazy, you know, and as passionate as I am, you know, doing what I'm doing and being able to have impact as we are. It's hard, you know, and it's, it's stressful. And so, for me, I have to constantly, you know, be in gratitude, you know, for the support we have from my business partner who's Rockstar, and I could never have done this without him for being able to work with my daughter side by side, you know, for all the good and the magic that happens every day. And so, amidst the stress and other frustrations of just building a business and running a company. I do I do try to laugh a lot. Which that's like sort of a huge go to for me for nirvana. Because exercise doesn't matter. You know, like I find the time I find the time for connection with people like that fills my soul. So I guess these are my Nirvana moments. I mean, being here with these people and laughing and making these friendships has been magical and seeing my girlfriends, I will make time for that, you know, going for a walk or hike with a friend. It, the list of to dues will never end. And there's always a million more things that I should be doing. But I do make sure to take that time to to take care of me. Otherwise the stress would be too much and and then I can't be well, I can't be in wellness, I can't take care of me. So that right that's

Amy: 1:05:28

so true. Well, we we end the show with a mantra always. So Kate is gonna get her mantra ready. But I just wanted to thank you so much for all the time you've given us. We feel like I said, we could talk for hours. But we'd love for you to come back one day and keep educating about super foods and healthy eating and all of this stuff. Because it's just so important. We want to keep talking about it. And just really, really appreciate all your time and all the knowledge and value you've given us today. It's been so inspiring and exhilarating.

Lisa Odenweller: 1:05:54

Well, thank you I've loved the conversation. And I just so appreciate getting to know you guys and having the opportunity to share and and hopefully, you know, there's some tidbits of of ideas or information that people can walk away with as well. And I'd be honored to come back.

Katie: 1:06:10

You left us with so much. So this one I think really speaks to your passion Lisa and your ambition and how hard you've worked and everything that you've created. It's I can hold both contentment, and ambition in my heart. I think it's a good reminder, like we don't always have to be just because we're shooting for something doesn't mean we're not happy where we are. And just because we're happy where we are doesn't mean we can't try for more. So there you go. So Lisa, thank you so much. I love that.

Lisa Odenweller: 1:06:40

Thank you so much. That was beautiful. I love that.

Amy: 1:06:44

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 56 - VAGUS Not VEGAS! How TO Maintain Your Nervous System With Jessica Maguire Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 56 - VAGUS Not VEGAS! How TO Maintain Your Nervous System With Jessica Maguire Part 2..

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation on sister's family. This week, we continue with Jessica McGuire talking about vagal tone and repairing your nervous system. And this part two episode, we get advice for helping to regulate children's nervous system, especially children with maybe autism, ADHD, and so on, Amy gets real time advice on her vestibular migraines and how it could potentially be tied to the nervous system. Jessica also helps us understand what different dysregulation look like for different people and the various ways that we can regulate our nervous system. We hope you enjoy this super interesting episode with Jessica McGuire. We found it to be so educational and really, really interesting. It's a completely different way of looking at how to manage one's stress. It's a new way that not a lot of people talk about and we think it can be really, really helpful to so many people. So we hope you enjoy.

Amy: 1:28

I have a question about I guess a symptom of not being regulated could be headaches or dizziness, because I have the similar migraines. If you know what that is. And they were really bad a couple years ago, they're much better now. But is that related? Because I have a feeling it probably is like I was off and probably needed to do things to help it. But are you familiar with that?

Jessica: 1:51

Yeah, there's some good research that shows there is some connections there, because of the vagus nerve connects like it's a cranial nerve, which you would link cranial nerves with other cranial nerves winds migraines. So particularly with the vestibular system, so as it comes up around the ears, it's connecting with other cranial nerves there. So they've shown that lower vagal tone can present as things like tinnitus, headaches, migraines, that kind of thing as well. But also there'd be the inflammatory links. So the vagus nerve can influence our level of inflammation. And that's if we'd love able to and we sometimes see these chronic things come up, such as migraines

Katie: 2:38

interests, or anything that you can do that like it, like if someone so for me example, what could she do to help with her vagal tone now that you know, she has a vestibular migraines, maybe the person, the listener is hearing this and they're saying, Oh, I'm I'm on the higher end? What like, what's something that they could do that could help them? I saw that you mentioned play on your Instagram page playing like a kid again, like these, you know, these these little things that we can do at home? Does meditating help? What are any things that our listeners could do? Sure.

Jessica: 3:13

So it would depend as well, I would be worried, like Amy and I were to look further, we would say, Well, what looking at what stage she would spend most of her time it really triggered her nervous system, does she have dysregulation? Or does she she's experiencing a lot of anxiety at that time. So again, I would be looking in that framework of the window of tolerance to see where that you know, where should be resting play is one of the best things because you you are working with your nervous system in the state where you have that sympathetic nervous system coming in, or the fight, the insane energy that leads to fight or flight is that mobilizing energy that is in play, but with play the vagal brake or the vagus nerve is still working. So you feel excited, energized, you feel that mobilization through your body, but it's not moving into a threat, because you've got the vagal brake fit. So play is great. It can be with kids. I mean, if if as an adult you find things with certain friends playful like comedy, it could be just taking funny photos. It could be going and doing something like a hike together and you know, really having that group laugh, banter, but reciprocity where it's back and forward is really what helps because when you say it's the same as speaking and listening, when you talk, your vagal brake releases slightly. When you listen, it comes back on slightly. So whilst we can say okay, let's do these things that are inside the window, where our nervous system learns and things will change is when you actually have some stress in your nervous system. So that's where we want to for some people excitement gets interpreted as anxiety. It's like almost like this, oh my god, this is so great. Oh, my gosh, I'm feeling so many things that I can't like keep it in check. So then it turns into like a racing heart and things. So, so we we do want to use it when, if we were to say that to you the answer to your question before? If so, Amy knew that she moved into anxiety whenever she went to family functions, let's say for instance, well, that's the time where we'd want to be saying, Okay, how can she keep herself just under that edge of her window without moving into anxiety? Now, that could be that she holds her husband's head or that she looks at him and they take like, a moment to be like, together, it could be that if she if she checks in with her shoulders, and a jaw is clenched, and she's holding like this, she goes, Okay, I'm gonna just I've not, I'm starting to notice that this is what I do is an automatic pattern, I'm going to undo that pattern and start to come back down. One of the things that I think is really helpful is using if then statements. So it's like, if I go to the family function, and I start to get anxious, I'm going to go outside for one minute and just, like walk with my feet on the graph, and really pay attention to those adaptations. So whilst there's a lot out there that we can see that says, this is going to help with the vagus nerve. It's, it's not really that powerful, unless we're experiencing stress. And we teach our survival brain, which is the part that detects threat to respond in a new way. Right? It's like, you know, we can all be very chill while we're on a meditation cushion, but then leave and drive out into traffic and completely.

Amy: 7:06

And so it's not trying to keep yourself calm all the time. It's knowing how to keep yourself calm in a stressful situation, and having the tools and strategies to do that, which I think I've learned over time. And I think, you know, that's a really important piece to it. Now, do people take, like, in extreme cases, do people take medication to regulate their vagus nerve? Or is it more just behavioral things.

Jessica: 7:32

So this is interesting, because when you look at what we call the gut, brain axis, that's how the vagus nerve runs from communicates from the gut up to the brain. And a lot of what it's communicating is coming from the gut microbiome, and the what we'd call the enteric nervous system, which is the nerve all the nerves in the belly that they might call the belly brain. And so some recent studies have shown with taking things like say antidepressants that helped to improve the level of serotonin, when the vagus nerve was cut, they stopped working. So it's interesting that we know that things like serotonin, taking those will or taking antidepressants will help in the short term, you know, that will help to improve people's mental health, but long term, it doesn't necessarily improve things. So is that that serotonin, serotonin, helping improve the function of the vagus nerve and what's being communicated? Or can you influence our own serotonin? So I think this is where it's useful to look at the vagus nerve as like this highway that's communicating what's happening between our gut and our brain. And we can also do a lot to change or rebalance, like what the how the microbes are working because they are what produce things like serotonin, GABA, which is an anti anxiety neurotransmitter, as well and dopamine. So we can we can still have a big influence on the balance of our gut and the vagus nerve will communicate that upwards. But in terms of medication specifically for the vagus, not really, it's more that the medication treats the end stage. So like inflammation, pain, you know, people use proton pump inhibitors for the gut, but a lot of that can be poor vagal tone. So unfortunately, a lot of them probably just mask what's going

Amy: 9:35

Yeah. And I think, you know, culture, people will say, you know, you hear it all over the place, like, Oh, I'm stressing to take a Xanax, you know what I mean? And like, that's very common, unfortunately, that is how people are coping with their stress me included sometimes if I need to, right. And I think it's really important to figure out ways to not rely on something like that to kind of get you back into your zone, if you will. Yeah,

Katie: 9:59

and I do I love that the tools that you were saying it feels like it's kind of like mindfulness practices like checking in. There's this book that I read to my children. That is, it's called ion peace. And it's just this little story all about this guy that is he's tuning into himself, like, right now I can hear the wind and the trees are bustling. And I can feel the grass underneath my feet. And I can, and it's like, just kind of checking in, like you were saying, Alright, my shoulders are really tense. Let me drop my shoulders. My I'm, maybe I'm breathing too fast or talking too quickly, let me slow it down. So is it is that kind of a good way to sum it up? It's tuning into yourself in these moments of stress, and recognizing these stress habits, and kind of shifting them. I think that's

Jessica: 10:49

a big part of it. But for some people paying attention to sensation, so we're already close to panic that can make them worse. Really, knowing where you are on that stage. So yeah, we hear a lot of like, just to breath work. If someone does breath work, when they're panicked, they are going to just feel a million times worse. It's a bit like saying, and I wish there was a simple answer to say it's just this, but the part that I keep coming back to when people are like, but isn't there just like one or two things? And it's

Katie: 11:24

really not? Because no, of course, yeah,

Jessica: 11:27

depends on each person. But for some people that will help you know, in the, in the ability to go, Okay, I'm going to focus my attention on this, like that can certainly help. But for other people, it could be things like, I need to move my body, or I need to use ways where I'm out in nature, or I need other people or it's, it's having like this enormous tool toolkit that you can go through and say this is going to work for me today. I mean, there's things with music that some people find regulating, that doesn't involve paying attention at all to anything, it should just be having the music there. And they've shown that we've children with autism, that that has been a really useful way to engage the vagus nerve. And it's having good effects for bringing that nervous system regulation. So mindfulness is good, I guess the part that I just caution people with is if they are really dysregulated, mindfulness has shown that it can potentially make the dysregulation last longer, because you might be paying attention to say, like a racing heart, or butterflies in your tummy. And if you've paid attention to that, it's almost like it's telling the brain there's danger. So this is where we need to know our system. And what works because I've worked with a lot of people who've had a history of like traumatic stress, and they just can't meditate. And they keep getting this message, like just meditate just mentioned, that well, doesn't work for them. So

Amy: 13:04

it's a little bit like, so those type of people need to find another method to help them get regulated, for example, exercise or play or something else. Yeah, I was gonna say, too, because Katie mentioned, kids, and you were talking about autism, etc. I was going to say, I'm sure, this could be the case for many children, especially like teens, because you know, going through middle school or high school is stressful. They're just not able to identify that it could be often. So what do you suggest for like, kids who may have a dysregulated? Tone? Because I would say, there's probably a lot I mean, you hear of so many, like, mental health challenges with kids nowadays. So I'm just curious for our listeners, if they have kids, they think that might have dysregulation and how they could help.

Jessica: 13:54

Sure. Yeah, it's very interesting. And a lot of the research has been with kids. So a lot of this stuff is so relevant, but it's helpful to look up. The babies aren't born with the ability to self regulate. So they actually rely on parents to literally calm their nerves. So the part of the vagus nerve, that's that vagal brake, it's got like a electrical insulation around it, and that is formed, or it's not formed up until we're about three or four years old. So there for kids who are like premature or maybe don't get that really good co regulation, they're more likely to experience anxiety. And there was even a study showing that adverse childhood experiences correlated with chronic illness later in life. So they followed these kids right through. So that was just to reiterate what happens early on in life is like setting up that person for for the rest of their life. So spending time with CO regulation is really important. But that's what I would say is probably the main part is the CO regulation. So using the voice using torch soothing, like that will have a faster effect. And then a lot of we the things we kids, like I mentioned before, the research is really interesting with music. But mid frequency music was shown to that's played has been shown to help kids access that part. But the back and forth of clay will work really beautifully. Even if that's like throwing a ball back and forth, like doing something where there's like, let the excitement build, bring it back down. There's ways to of course get them to tune into, like what's happening in nature, what's happening around that we spoke about as well. And really, like if we just say, okay, you know, the, my child is really up, I'm gonna go out and discharge some of this energy. Or it might be if they're flat, like getting them to like use things like stomping or slowly bringing that energy back up. So you're really looking to down regulate, or up regulate, the kids will always respond best with that CO regulation, because their little systems are forming through it. I mean, even the centers in their brain to do with regulation formed through that back and forth. Communication, new parents.

Amy: 16:39

Yeah, I was gonna say because earlier, we were talking about procrastination, and like, I'm thinking about my older son who's 15, and a bit of a procrastinator, but also has ADHD. So like, sometimes he can be flat or like super lazy, but again, I don't know if he's lazy, or he's just not like regulated. And maybe he needs to, like, get up and do something, which a lot of times we'll say like get up and go outside. And then when it comes back, and he's like totally fine. Yeah, so it's

Jessica: 17:06

an example. Yes. And like getting in with people, I think like because if there's that flatness and procrastination, people tend to withdraw a little bit and not want to go and do anything, it just becomes like a cycle. So it's like for us if we feel that flatness and that sense of, there's almost a little bit of a feeling of helplessness or hopelessness with it. But once we get back out, and it can be just even going to get a coffee or going to a park where there's a lot of people that will help to bring the system back up for sure.

Katie: 17:41

Yeah, I find it interesting. It this was talking about Jackson AMI son, it just reminded me of what you were saying earlier how people pick up on other people's dysregulation as well, like in, in my house if I'm stressed and like, you know, running around and reactive. The next thing I know, like, so are my kids, and then like my husband starts to get that way. And then the whole house gets really you can just like feel the stress levels rise. Yeah, in the house. Yeah. So it's, it's really interesting. So

Amy: 18:12

our next family dinners are gonna be like, Okay, we're gonna regulate, and our kids are gonna be like, what the hell you're talking about

Jessica: 18:20

100 does happen. And I think it's like, we need to not be too hard on ourselves for you know, getting stressed, because it's not stress is not going to ever go away. Like, it's always going to be there. And it

Amy: 18:35

can work for you in some in some ways. I think

Jessica: 18:38

that that sense of getting out of our comfort zone in some ways where we are on that edge of like, Ooh, this is scary. And then we can cope with whatever it is we actually do strengthen our ability to stay regulated under stress. So there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's more, I love that when people understand this framework, they stop blaming themselves. So it's like with your son, if it's procrastination, and underneath that is a sense of like he's you know, feeling particularly with ADHD, then changing the state will change that behavior. And this is why this stuff is so great for cues, but also we can give ourselves just a little bit of grace. Like, Katie, if you said from that year that you had your nervous system learned to be more sensitive to cues of danger. Because it was you know, having a hard time, but some of the time, that means we just then unlearn it through using those practices where we show, okay, I'm scared, but if I can, and if that's what you're saying what works for you where you're like, Okay, I can drop through my body. I can pay attention to what's here, and you just bring yourself down a little bit. Even though you it's still challenging you intact I can teach your system not to be as sensitized. So it's amazing dynamic.

Amy: 20:06

I have a silly example. But I was very proud of myself last week because I had to get a root canal. For the first time, I had like, really bad, it was one of those I had like really bad pain. And so I had to go to the dentist. And then he was like, you have to get a root canal, like, whatever. So go to get the root canal was like on the same day. And as soon as I got it, like, they put something in my mouth, and I felt like I couldn't swallow. And then I started panicking. And I noticed that my shoulders went up. And then I said to myself, Okay, your shoulders are up, like, move them down, breathe, and it like completely helps me and change me. And I was telling my friend, I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm so proud of myself that I like, got through it. Because normally, I'd be so anxious the whole time I like somehow managed to get through because I just noticed that physical symptom of me like raising my shoulders. It's just, that was just an awareness thing. But yeah,

Jessica: 20:55

amazing,

Amy: 20:56

silly example. But we relatable. Right? That's great. Yeah.

Katie: 21:02

This is so incredibly fascinating to me. And I feel like we could, I could personally pick your brain for hours. But really quickly, if you could explain a little bit your program that you do you work with your clients, and how our listener could get in touch with you to work with you.

Jessica: 21:19

Oh, great. Sure. So we have a few different programs, one that we have coming up very soon is our gut brain access program. So it's looking at, specifically the gut, and how that influences anxiety, depression dysregulation, and also how we can rebalance that microbiome to improve the functioning of the vagus nerve. So that is a six week program. It's not really about having to go on a diet and overwhelming ways to change your life. We just have found the through the science, what works and put it into recipes, so people can just integrate it. And it's matched to the States as well. So it's what works for you. That's one program. And then we also have a two hour masterclass that we run, that is a good overall introduction, and just gives you enough to go away get practicing on your own, and learning to really widen that window that we spoke about.

Katie: 22:21

Yeah, I think I'm going to be signing up for the two hour master. It sounds great.

Amy: 22:26

Where can people find you on Instagram? Because I know that, um, you have a lot of really great videos and information that I found to be really helpful.

Jessica: 22:34

Oh, thank you. So our handle is repairing underscore, the underscore nervous, the school system? Don't worry. It's really long. But yeah, there's a lot over there. We do. We do love to share a lot on on Instagram, we found that our audiences very, very excited to keep learning more. So it's been a lot of fun to, to to share this information with people over there as well.

Katie: 23:02

Yeah, your content is great that it is it's so for the listener, it's so incredibly informative. And you give a lot of great tips and educational information that really helps break it all down. I love I love your content.

Jessica: 23:16

Thank you so much, Katie. All right.

Katie: 23:18

So why don't we kick it into our rap session? Amy, do you want to? Sure. tip us off?

Amy: 23:25

Yes. So what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Jessica: 23:32

Ah, I'm gonna go wellness just because I would say that beauty is not my area of expertise. Favorite beauty had a wellness hack would have to be I would definitely say the right people around would be the biggest key to wellness. So leaning into people for support, but also for play and for fun as well. So yeah, I would say that would be the biggest wellness. I love that.

Katie: 24:00

Yeah, surrounding yourself with the right people. Yeah, the energy right everyone's energy when you're picking up on it. Alright, this next one we call it the five minute flow to first of all, do they have Uber in Australia? You do right?

Jessica: 24:15

There's not much in our area like you often go to order them and you'll understand the

Katie: 24:22

question part of the flow. Yeah, so you just got out of the shower and dried off Uber just alerted you there five minutes away. What's your quick beauty routine? What are your go twos your holy grail is to get yourself ready and out the door and in that car,

Jessica: 24:35

five minutes. So I would definitely want to just do some deep cut fill in brows you know, because if you've got polished eyebrows, you kind of feel like you've got your act together and you're really organized. And then probably just looks of you know, like something like a bronzer or an ad coverage. I could just rub on my face but that still gave it a bit of a glow. Nice. Oh, we're just thinking if there's anything else five minutes, I think my time would be up if I had to do any more.

Katie: 25:13

The last one we want to know is how do you maintain your daily Nirvana,

Jessica: 25:18

I really think it's tuning into that those rhythms of the nervous system that I was speaking about before. So just being aware that I tend to want to go, I can do that, I can do that, I can do that. And then it gets to, like, I'm overwhelmed here. So knowing that rather than pushing through, that's the time to actually take a break and get outside, it's probably my main thing. So where we live, it's not far to a river and it's only like, a two minute walk and, um, just go down, have a walk, and then be able to keep working, I think through wisdom, you kind of learn to that your physiology is more powerful than your ability to keep trying to push. And so I listened to that physiology now instead of trying to override it. And that is how I would say much more insight that we know we talked about.

Katie: 26:09

Yeah, that's the key for sure. Yeah, it's so fascinating. It's like being in tune to your body on a level that I have never talked to somebody about before. I mean, it's it really is like You must be so in tune and in touch with with your body. It's I'm I'm hypersensitive, I feel everything in my system all the time. It kind of drives me crazy. But at the same time, you can use it to your advantage. And I just feel like I could learn so much from you. So I'm signing up for their class. Learn more.

Amy: 26:43

This was amazing. And so eye opening. So thank you so much for joining us.

Jessica: 26:47

All right. He's absolutely loved hanging out with you both. Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun. And I love that he was so enthusiastic to learn all about this. So thank you. Yeah,

Amy: 26:58

I think our listeners are really gonna like this. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 55 - VAGUS Not VEGAS! How To Maintain Your Nervous System With Jessica Maguire Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast, Episode 55 - VAGUS Not VEGAS! How To Maintain Your Nervous System With Jessica Maguire Part 1.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome to this week's episode Nirvana sisters family. This week we're speaking with Jessica McGuire who focuses on your vagus nerve. Now, I had never heard this term before we spoke with her so don't worry if you don't know what it is. We will cover it all in this episode. But Jessica McGuire's passion for health led her to a degree in Health Science. Jessica McGuire has studied neurophysiology throughout Europe, America, the UK and Australia. She has learned from pain researchers, professors and neuroplasticity neuroscientists and physiologists on how the brain and nervous system change from stress, trauma and chronic pain. Her postgraduate study has led her to further qualifications and clinical mindfulness, trauma sensitive biofeedback, polyvagal theory and the use of Transcutaneous, Vagus Nerve Stimulation. Say that twice. So this episode is really to just open up your aperture on what this means and how to train your vagus nerve, which seems to be something that regulates the whole body. And this nervous system really dictates a lot of how you're feeling, which I didn't really think about too much. So this is really eye opening. For me again, Jessica really is an expert in this space in this vagus nerve and your nervous system. So Jessica believes that knowledge is power and that we are all empowered when we have the autonomy and reshaping our mind body systems. So her specialty now is really teaching patients about the vagus nerve, their nervous system and how stress related illness such as anxiety, depression, gut disorders, autoimmune issues, chronic pain can arise from dysregulation after chronic or traumatic stress. So she uses her vagus nerve masterclass, as well as her vagus nerve program to help people get to the cause of their problems rather than just relying on others to treat their systems. So we try to really break it down in layman's terms during this episode to understand what we can do on an everyday basis to help manage our vagus nerve and our nervous system. Enjoy the show.

Katie: 2:34

Well, Hi, Jessica, thank you so much for being here. It is great to have you all the way from the other side of the world. Jessica is dialing in from Australia. So we're so excited to have you and you are in our future that is tomorrow for us with you. That's right. Yes,

Jessica: 2:53

I am. Hello, thanks so much for having me.

Katie: 2:56

We're so excited to have you here. This is such an interesting topic. So before we get started, we'll start with our nirvana of the week. Amy, do you want to kick us off with that?

Amy: 3:08

I can. So I would say my nirvana of the week was this weekend, I had a really good friend's wedding. One of my husband's best friends from growing up. Definitely got married later in life. So we haven't had a wedding in a long time. And we haven't seen a lot of our friends. Obviously, with the pandemic over the last few years. We haven't all been together in one place. So it was just so fun to all be together. The wedding was in New York City and it was just an amazing weekend and spending time with friends and basically friends who are like family and just being all together under one roof. Celebrating a good occasion was just really beautiful. So yeah, that was my nirvana of the week. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 3:44

That's really nice. Mine what we had ours yesterday, we have a pool for the first time ever moving into a new house this past fall. And we used it as a family with our first pool day. And it was just so nice with the kids seeing them jump in and out of the pool. And it was just really relaxing. Like it was a little glimpse into what you know, many days are gonna look like ahead. So it was it was lovely. What about you? Jessica, do you have a nirvana of the week?

Jessica: 4:12

Yes. My husband and I picked out a new puppy. So we we are getting a Golden Retriever puppy in mid July. I talked to the breeder and she's been sending me lots of puppy spam every day of this really cute little puppy, but we're really excited to pick it up in region wide. And yeah, I keep looking at these photos sort of melting every time I look at them, and it's already Bringing lots of joy before it's even arrived.

Amy: 4:44

Oh, that's amazing. I feel you on that. I just got a puppy. Well, she's eight months now but you know, she's still definitely very much a puppy. She's a she's a Labradoodle. She's actually an Australian Labradoodle. So the brief comes from Australia. She's amazing. Are you getting Boyer or girl do not know yet.

Jessica: 5:02

Surprise, it'll be nice. She can match them with us, I thought it would be better.

Amy: 5:10

Exactly. That's the best because then they match with your temperament what you're looking for. So that's exciting. Well, that's awesome. Well, again, welcome to the show. We wanted to start off with a way to introduce you to our audience and have them get to know you a little bit more. So we're just going to do a fun little quick, this or that. So it's going to be super quick and just answer with your first instinct. Okay, so massage or facial message, beach retreat, or mountain retreat, beach or trading, coffee or tea, coffee, Salty or sweet. So I know that's a hard one. I'm like, wait, both. Great. So Thanks for Thanks for playing our quick game. And we will get into it. I think, today's a really interesting episode, as Katie was mentioning, I know she's been super passionate about this topic for a long time, I really don't know much about it. And I don't think our listeners do either. And I know you're all about the vagus nerve and explaining and helping people with symptoms. So can you help us to kind of give us a one on one, what is the vagus nerve tell us about the work that you do and why it's important and what people should know about this topic?

Jessica: 6:19

Sure, I'd love to. So I guess one of his one of what we call the cranial nerves, it's starts out in the brainstem. So if you ran your hand on the back of your head, you'd feel a little bony ridge. And then if you went inwards from there, that would be the brainstem in that base of the skull region. And it joins the spinal cord. So it starts out there, and it goes down both sides of the body with branches coming into the face, the heart and the lungs. And then it's got a lot of branches about 40,000 that go down into the gut. So it's, it's not sort of one nerve as what we've seen a little bit in like, you know, we can just influence this one nerve, because there's a series of connections that communicate between the brain and the body. But then it's got communication that runs back up from the body to the brain, as well. So it's a bit like this ongoing feedback loop that you can't sort of separate. And we'll see from how its anatomy, what its role is. So the branches that come down into the heart will slow our heart back down. After say we've had something stressful, slow our breaths back down, because it comes into the lungs. And the branches that go down into the gut touching nearly every organ will affect how those organs function, but also things like our immune system and inflammation as well. But because of its role with our nervous system, our autonomic nervous system, we say, which is how we detect if things are dangerous or not. It's really involved with our emotional health as well. So it has a rolling both at the same time. But it's such an important topic because particularly with chronic conditions like chronic anxiety, chronic gut disorders, which are just so prevalent now. And chronic pain, were really saying that the vagus not working well can be what lies at the heart of that. And so what I saw when I was working in clinic, was a lot of patients presenting, where they'd say, Well, nothing's showing up on a test, but I have this gut problems, I have this pain, or I have this anxiety that's ongoing. And, you know, I don't know why it's sort of functioning this way. And that's where it can really be a missing key for a lot of people.

Katie: 8:54

That's literally the story of my life. It's wild. So the vagus nerve is is that the, the central nervous system? Is that what, like the center of the central nervous system? Am I understanding that correctly? or No?

Jessica: 9:10

Sort of what what that divided? It's a little bit tricky because we the biomedical model has divided the body up into separate systems, you know, it's sort of like tried to say the body's like a machine with separate parts. So technically, what was labeled as the central nervous system is the brain and the spinal cord. And then I'd say the autonomic nervous system is the vagus nerve, and another part, which is called the sympathetic nervous system, but in reality, you can't separate them. I mean, the vagus is running up into the brain, and then it's got projections going up that influence our thinking. It's just this one continuous loop. But the old sort of paradigms that people looked at were like, Okay, let's separate brain and body you know, like This is a mental health issue. This is a physical health issue. But we can't really do that anymore. It's not sort of in line with science. So technically, it is part of that autonomic nervous system. But it is in a continuous feedback loop with the central nervous system.

Amy: 10:18

And it all sounds like it all works. Yeah, it all works together. So and what is what is the vagus nerve responsible for like, is it your regulator of stress? Or like, what is it do in your body? I guess it sounds like Yes, sure.

Jessica: 10:35

So we can look at, for example, if we are in like a calm regulated state, we will feel that we have part of the vagus nerve working that runs from the brainstem. And it goes down to the pacemaker of the heart. So it's actually like riding a bicycle downhill. And you just keep a little bit of the brake on with your fingers, just so you don't go too fast. It's actually doing that to us all of the time. So we, if we didn't have it there, our heart rest would be about 90 beats per minute. And with it on at rest of probably beats around 70 depends, you know, there's variation. So that evolved for this branch of the vagus nerve evolved so that humans could work together, they could communicate without being in this fight or flight state. So when it's working, well, it keeps us I'll say, in that regulated state, so I might feel excitement, or I might feel waves of nervousness. But overall, I'm feel flexible, adaptable, my thoughts would be coherent, and my energy would be relatively stable. But let's say we're doing this podcast. And I'm really excited. And I would feel this mobilizing energy in my system, which might be heat, like warm through here might be that I'm up a little bit in my energy. So that means that that brake has just come off a tiny little bit to let in some of what we call the sympathetic nervous system energy. And that brings us up. And this is good, because we want to focus, we want to, it's things we feel passionate about. So that energy brings us vitality, and makes us robust. And then after say this was over my vagal brake would come back in and slow me back down. And I would feel that change or shift in my energy. If I face something really stressful, like say, the internet cut out while we were doing this, and I couldn't get back on the break with my fingertips would come off. And then I would move towards a fight or flight state. So I might feel my heart race, anxiety, my thoughts would be going quick, you've got to get back in there. And, you know, a few other effects. So if my vagus nerve is working well, what that means is, I will come back into that regulated state quicker. For some people whose vagus nerve isn't working so great when they feel that passion or excitement, or that, where they take the break off a little bit. It's almost like it's not there properly. And so they go into fight or flight when they're just feeling say, excited, nervous, that kind of thing. And that's really what we would say, biologically is anxiety, you know, so there's, it's that too sensitive to move into that system and the vagal breaks, not keeping it in check. So that's one of its main roles. The other way that we might see is that we have a branch that if we're under threat, and we can't deal with it with fight or flight, we use another part of the vagus nerve, which can bring us down into like a shutdown state. So some people freeze when there's like, really highly stressful events. And some people might say in conflict, you know, you just have frozen and can't speak or do anything. And that's another part of our nervous system, which is there to protect us like It's like animals playing dead, in a way it's psychologically protective. But we used to say the, like, the old way of looking at the autonomic nervous system was just fight or flight, or rest and digest, but we actually know there's still this sense of shutdown. And it's really important because it shows us how not only how we respond in some situations, that isn't our fault. But also, it can be the precursor for burnout, so and depression, you know, that sense of always flat chronic fatigue, feeling lethargy, To some people whose vagus nerve isn't working so well, they can oscillate between anxiety, down to depression shutdown up to anxiety. And it's, they sort of miss that state where they're regulated, which is unfortunate, but we call that having nervous system dysregulation.

Katie: 15:19

It's so fascinating. And so essentially, the vagus nerve, what I just took from that was that it's kind of like the pathway between the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system that, that goes back and forth to regulate the two and keep you balanced in between the two, is that a fair way of saying,

Jessica: 15:40

absolutely. So it's really about having enough like, we don't want to always be in this calm, regulated state, because sometimes you're angry, and we need to deal with things. Sometimes we get disappointed, or things don't work out. And we've get flat. And we need to grieve like, that's having that flexibility in our nervous systems really important. But exactly what you say, Katie, it's keeping all those systems in balance, rather than, you know, always being in sympathetic or always being in shutdown.

Katie: 16:10

And dysregulated nervous system, I genuinely think I experienced this towards the end of last year, it's it, from my perspective, what it looks like, and tell me if this is true, you're like, you're just highly reactive, you're kind of always on edge, and kind of always stressed. And like, like, something can just tip you off, where you don't, you don't have that, like, calm that ability to, to bring it down. And to go into that rest and digest phase. Like I definitely went through a short period like that, just from so much stress from a really stressful year. And I'm out of it now regulated again. But you know, it's just it's I, you know, like, when people say their nerves are shot. That's like, I always my parents were like, my mom would throw that saying around. I feel like that's what that means, right?

Jessica: 17:01

Absolutely. And it makes sense physiologically, because if we said, like, we have like a setpoint of our nervous system that we start out, that's a little bit like a thermostat in a house, you know, the say, it gets hot, then the aircon comes back on until it brings it back down. But it's sort of oscillating around that point. Well, what happens is say we go through something really stressful, the sympathetic energy will be released. And then we'll have a loss of the vagus nerve or vagal tone, like I said, where it comes off. But what would happen is, if we learned to, if we were recovering from that, we'd go back to that setpoint. So the vagus nerve would start working properly again, that sympathetic energy would be discharged, we'd be fine. So stress isn't bad for us if we recover. But when it's chronic, let's say what you were saying, say with your year, last year, Katie, and there was a wave of stress. And then the next thing came, then the next thing, can you set setpoint moves. So you don't have the vagal tone, but you're closer to that edge of being almost add anxiety already before you begin. So then it's just the littlest thing tips you over into that state. So we can move that setpoint. But what's interesting is that the chronicity, or the the the relentlessness of stress is what is worse. So you know, if we can recover from it, it's fine. But it's when we get hit again and again. Or we're in a situation where we feel helpless and powerless to do anything with what's happening. So say, for instance, for so many people with COVID-19, it's a classic example. You know, if you had a business and you were worried, but couldn't really do anything. So I think for so many people, it's what they're seeing now is that, you know, ongoing anxiety, and the health issues coming off that pandemic time. But, you know, for so many people, their life just is relentlessly challenging.

Amy: 19:07

Some people are probably more in tune with their body than others. So a few questions. So how would one know if they're, I don't I don't even know what the right terminology would be. But for lack of a better word, and how would someone know if their vagus nerve is off? And also, how do you keep it balanced? Or is it like through? What are the methods in which to keep it balanced?

Jessica: 19:31

Sure. So we we say vagal tone is how we would assess whether it's working properly or not. So it's a bit like a muscle. It's working well, it's got good vagal tone. Normally what you'll see is a cluster of symptoms or things that happen concurrently because of its role. As I said, We'd like our emotional health but also our physical health. So it can be prolonged anxiety, that inability to switch off, can't relax, maybe insomnia thrown in with that. Or on the other hand, people can have like that prolonged feeling of depression, exhaustion, flatness, people that tend to be more on the flat side will probably internalize this as they're lazy and just can't, you know, get this stuff together. But that procrastination is actually a physiological sign of being in that state would see the other gut conditions. So a lot of people can experience either that chronic constipation, they might experience like sensitivities that they've never had before pain, bloating, just can't tolerate foods that they used to be able to, that would be one of the main ones and then also pain. So it can be just tension up through the neck and shoulders, it could be lower back pain. And the immune system as well can be another hint. So skin conditions, allergies, respiratory things, with some people, you they say, just I'm thinking of people that I've worked with their throat, like their voice feels a bit funny, because the vagus nerve has a branch that comes up through the throat and innovates the muscles of communication and speech. So they would be the main things to look for that would be a clue, the gold standard measurement is using like ECG leads, where you look at the beats of the heart. Because what I said before that break coming on to the heart, the heart doesn't actually be like a metronome, it has rhythm. So when you breathe in, it beats a little bit faster. And when you breathe out, it beats a little bit slower. And that's because of the vagal brake, I was saying before, when you breathe in, there's just a real slight release. And when you breathe out the vagal brake starts working properly again. So you can actually see that on an ECG and see the difference. And it tells you how the how the vagus nerve is working. But in order to answer the second part of your question, it really depends on knowing where or how your nervous system is sitting. So if we were talking about before, that where some people can be at the edge where they're closer to anxiety, we'd have looking at certain ways to work with that. For some people, if it's, you know, that they're more towards the flat side of things, you'd be looking at different ways to work with that physical or how that's changed someone's physiology. It's, it's tricky, because it's like people saying to me, oh, what's the best practice I can use? There isn't one like, and it's not something? You know, we see a lot of,

Amy: 22:51

it's a big question. I was just curious, is it like, are you treating the vagus nerve? Are you treating the symptoms that in turn help the vagus nerve? Like is it and this is totally different, but we had Dr. Deborah block on our show, who is a chiropractor, and she was talking, we were talking about the Atlas. And she was saying, if your Atlas is out, she can adjust it and therefore XYZ, so like, Is it physical therapy related to this? Or is it more just treating the symptoms, which then help us? I'm trying to understand the

Jessica: 23:21

question, and I'm really glad you asked it, because I think this is important for people understanding for their own symptoms, the symptoms that you see are more at the more that end product, if that makes sense. So when I was working as a physiotherapist, what I found frustrating was that people were coming in with pain. And it was when they had something really stressful without really, you know, emotional experiences going on. And I would go to treat the pain, but it's not really getting to the root cause of the pain, but the pain is only showing up because you're dysregulated. So the key is coming back into that regulated state. Now you can look at this of what Dr. Daniel Siegel, who's a neuroscientist has called coined it the window of tolerance. And so we all have this but you can say it's a dynamic system, like it changes by what's happening in our lives. So if we say inside the window, you are in that regulated state where the vagus nerve is working. But then above the window is that sympathetic fight or flight state? And below the window is that flat, what we might call hypo arousal so to flap, well, the width of our window can be changed. And also, you know, like, if we said typically I'm in the middle, and let's say I go to work, I've got emails, I'm coming up to the edge, traffic's a pain. Then my boss says, I need to see you in my office and I'm up into feeling My heart beat fast and anxiety. And then let's say I find out, somebody else gets the promotion that I wanted, then I might move up into anger and become quite reactive. So the width of our window, if my Windows narrow, then emails are going to be experienced up in this state things before where I was still in that regulated state. So if we can widen the window of our window of tolerance, that's really helpful. And I think what we need to start with for to be able to do this is to get to know our nervous system, and then see what moves us into those different states, then in the heat of the moment, having tools that we can use. So for some people, that might be what we call core regulation. So this is where, if you're around somebody else whose nervous system is inside their window, they're in a regulated state, you will begin to mirror their nervous system, and you will come down into a calmer state. So car regulation is one of the most powerful things, we hear so much about how codependency is bad, and we shouldn't rely on other people. But we're actually wired for connection, we're wired to depend on other people like biologically, it's been our entire makeup. And we can look at what we call the social engagement system. That explains it, I touched on it a little bit before with the branch that goes from the heart up to the face. So if someone's inside their window, you'll hear their voice has a lot of porosity. So that means changes in rhythm and pitch. If if you listen to how parents do this intuitively, with their baby, they started talking new things or new voice like this, they're intuitively using their voice to co regulate the baby, or people do it with their puppies, like you're probably doing now with your new one. But that change is showing that the vagus nerve is active, and it's innovating these muscles of communication and speech, you'll also see it on someone's face. So they'll smile with the upper part of the face as well. So it's like you'll see the expression right through. And then they'll also when when someone's in that state of inside that window, they can really tune in to the sound of the human voice. So if you're at a party, or whatever, and you're having a conversation with someone, you'll be able to listen in on just the person that you're talking with just their voice. So if I move above the window of tolerance, I will probably lose that vocal prosody. And my voice might sound something like this will find good anxiety. And I'll have a breath every few words. But that's the loss of the vagus nerve. Or for someone who's angry, the voice might sound more like this, so that it becomes monotone. And then when they smile, it will probably just be with the lower face, or it will, there'll be no expression at all. And above the window. They weren't people actually can't hear the sound of the human voice properly. So it goes from hearing this mid range frequency down to this really low range frequency, which is meant to be like predator sounds. So like a tiger walking through the jungle. And here it's like treading on a state and that breaking. That's the kind of what we tune into when we feel stressed. So if we can tap into somebody else who's in a regulated state, and we hear their voice that's got prosity, we see the kindness in their eyes, we see their gestures are calm, they're slow to our resonant circuits, our internal state will shift to mirror them. So that would be I would say, the most important thing that you can do for your autonomic nervous system and your vagus nerve.

Katie: 29:21

I just want to say I was getting chills the whole time, he said that I could relate so much to everything of what you're saying. But also, is it kind of like, you know, people say you pick up on another person's energy. I feel like that's exactly what what you're speaking to. That's exactly what that is. Right?

Jessica: 29:38

Totally. We have a thing as well called posture, resonance circuits. So this works. You see animals do this. If they're in the wild and one of them like this. They head up and looks around like what was that? They'll all get like, and so it's a little bit like as if we were in a movie theater say and People started looking around looking really scared. Our circuits in our brain would affect our nervous system. And we would start to feel oh, something's not right, I need to take action. But we can read cues that we might not even be aware of. So I can see, you know, it's like gestures with the head. It can be somebody, a movement with their eyes, and we're like, oh, that doesn't quite match, and our autonomic nervous system will pick up on that. And a lot of it's happening outside of our conscious awareness.

Katie: 30:34

Stay tuned for part two of this episode, where Amy asks Jessica, if vagal tone was maybe a factor in her vestibular migraines, plus Jessica explains to us what we can do to improve our vagal tone and so much more. We hope you enjoyed part one of our time with Jessica McGuire in this super fascinating topic.

Amy: 30:54

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 53 - Nutrition Tips And Healthy Tricks For Summer With Holistic Nutritionist Jen Silverman (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 53 Nutrition Tips And Healthy Tricks For Summer With Holistic Nutritionist Jen Silverman.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And we're here today to do a quickie episode with Jen Silverman, who was on our show back in episode 16. And for those of you who did not listen to that episode, you should it's called no label as the best label. But Jen Silverman is a holistic nutritionist. She's an expert in nutrition and intuitive eating and we thought it would be fun to do a quickie episode with her just to talk about some stuff for this summer as we're getting ready. The warm weather's coming out. It's spring, summer soon. What do we need to know? What are the tips? What are the snacks? What are all the things from the fabulous Jen? So welcome back to the show. We're so glad you're back with us. We missed you.

Jen: 1:07

Thank you. I'm happy to be back.

Amy: 1:09

So starting off with our nirvana of the week. I'm going to flip it to Katy to tell us. What was your Nirvana this week, Katie?

Katie: 1:15

Well, thanks, Amy. Hi, Jen. So excited to have you. Let's see my nirvana of the weekend. And yesterday, I had the whole day in the city, like a big girl without the kids and without the, you know, the like running around school pickups, and all of that stuff. So it was kind of fun. It was it was the first time since we've lived in Connecticut that I've done that where I've gone in for the entire day, just myself doing my thing. And then I had dinner with a great friend that I hadn't seen in years. So that was it. It's like, I don't know, it's just fun to kind of step outside of your normal life and do something different like that. That was my old life. You know what I mean? That's yeah, I was. Just to have times, yeah, well, yeah. 100% Like, I wasn't necessarily working. I had some pampering and some shopping. And it was great. It was fun. What about you, Amy?

Amy: 2:09

I have a little Nirvana from this morning. So our puppy Skye who accounts they talked about on the show, she's eight months now. And she's still crazy, but she's getting a little bit more mellow. And she jumped in bed this morning with me. And we were spooning and it was so yummy. So and she's so big now. So like, our whole body was like against me. And we were just like, cuddling. You know, granted, it was for like a minute until she like wanted to do something else. But it was so sweet. Because she never really does that. So I loved it. That's so huge. And

Jen: 2:38

my birthday was last week. And so I would say I just feel like, and I know, it's sad that it only happens on your birthday or not sad, but I just felt really loved in general. lately. I had, you know, dinner with my college friends and I got to be with my parents and my mom made me dinner. I always laugh because I feel like when I was little I always wanted to go out to dinner. And now that I'm older and I can pay for my own dinner, I'm like, can you just cook me dinner with someone to cook me dinner? So I felt like I had a really special week. Just with a lot of celebrations and seeing people I don't get to see as much and I'm glad that even that was the reason but that brought us together.

Amy: 3:18

That's so nice. Yeah, happy belated.

Jen: 3:21

22. Right. Can you believe it? Exactly. Three actually, it really it just outlines.

Amy: 3:29

Solid state of mind. It's all state of mind. Okay, so let's get into it. So summer's coming up. What do we need to know, like, give us some quick things that you're thinking about for kind of while you're already in shape, but like, you know, getting in shape and getting prepped for the summer.

Jen: 3:42

So my favorite part about the summer is that you can eat fresh foods. And I should not imply that you don't eat fresh foods year round. But you've probably heard you know, the term eating seasonally. And generally, this when someone is telling you to eat seasonally, they mean like there are certain fruits and vegetables that are in season, winter, spring, summer fall, right. So if you're getting strawberries in the summer, they are that much more delicious than if you're getting them in the winter because they're you're getting them from somewhere else or writing to when they're picked, you know, in California, you're kind of waiting and that nutrient density and even the taste is kind of all being depleted as it finally gets to you in Maryland or here on the East Coast. So that is all very true and I love eating seasonally. But my what I mean by eating seasonally and I think it's what's overlooked a lot is that in the wintertime especially you're eating more warming foods, right like you're eating like soups and stews and broth and things like that, and naturally we crave those and you actually should like really lean into that. But in the summer everything's fresh and delicious and even salads and juices and fresh fruit and like it actually tastes really good versus like you're going like okay, this is fine. So I would say like from a food standpoint, number one like leaning into summer. It's amazing if everything's now seasonal and delicious, and we can eat salad without being depressed wishing we were eating something warmer, in my personal opinion at least that's so

Katie: 5:09

true. I definitely 100% do that. In the warmer months. I want the cold crispy crunchy salad, the fresh veggies and then when it gets cold, I crave the warmer stuff. And I like occasional material. I feel like I should really be eating a salad because so much better for me. Why am I not eating the salad? Is it I don't, I don't want it because I'm freezing my body's cold it needs to be warmed up and be it's just not as like crispy and crunchy and fresh as it shouldn't be. So that's a really great, great tip. I love that one.

Jen: 5:37

Thank you. I feel like I never think of that. Or not that we don't think about it from that side. Which is Yeah. A Grom for a workout standpoint, I mean, get outside like there is nothing better than like fresh air and like that not be not even just like not staring at a screen not in not. And that's not to say that there aren't wonderful at home workouts or if you are comfortable going into a gym or into a fitness class if those aren't beneficial. But there's just something about being outside. I think the term that I heard somebody uses called Nature bathing, and it's literally forest bathing.

Amy: 6:12

What is it? Nature bathing or forest bathing, I've heard

Jen: 6:15

are both there. I think they're both really like actual things. But yeah, but nature bathing in general, just having that even if it's like walking outside versus on a treadmill, like, yeah, your calorie burn isn't going to be different. But let's be honest, like, I really hope that you and everyone listening to this is not working out for the calorie burn. Like I hope that they're working out for all of the other benefits of exercise. So I mean that alone, just whether it's a walk of bike ride your gardening, I mean, I plan to garden, I'm doing it on, it's my Mother's Day gift every year on missions every year, it's the second year in a row because I used to live in a city and I didn't have a garden. But we're going on here to where we're planting my garden. i Yeah, that is also something that I love about like coming into summer and spring and stuff like that.

Amy: 7:00

That's funny that you plant a garden, I actually my mom and I, on Mother's Day usually do that too. We go to the store and we get all the flowers and we plant all the annuals for the week, the spring vegetables and like herbs. And you know, I haven't gotten into that territory. I would like to actually Katie and I've talked about having someone on the show to like tell people how to do it because we don't know how to do it or to do it where they actually grow and like animals don't eat them. Like the whole thing seems very intimidating shape, but in theory, I would love to

Jen: 7:30

do it. My mom um, the advice I will give you now in year two, but I was when I was younger my Mom did whatever year so I do know a little bit you do things eat like tomatoes, cucumbers, squash, they grow like weeds, like in a wonderful way. Like it's simple, you won't feel like you're failing. You literally water them once a day, no big deal. Put them in a sunny spot, not too sunny. The tomatoes need that like a cage because they grow up. The rest of them don't and they're fine as is I had because we moved into a new home I had like the landscaper when we were doing our landscaping like put in boxes for me. So it was proper, but you don't need that. That's just me being fancy. Um, herbs and spices separate container because they not like cross contaminate, but it's hard to contain them like men will I'm still growing mint from last May. And I'm like it's crazy. I wish that I ever planted that I'm really upset about and not that I don't love mint but it's like overtaking my yard. It's not that hard. I think a lot of people definitely. It seems like a daunting task, but it's not that challenging.

Amy: 8:36

So cucumber or just like put it in the ground and like tomato like go

Jen: 8:40

to home. I really, and they have organic and regular like you can choose which one and you buy the pot itself and you buy like the plant or soil and then even you could they'll tell you like I walked in there and I'm like this is my first time doing garden. My mom's like we know what to get, don't worry. And there's different planter soils, there's the organic one, there's regular one, you know, you it's one of those things that I would recommend going up like a higher price point because if it's a lower price point, not only is this soil now it's a bit thicker and chunkier and you want it to be more smooth, but it's also that there'll be other things mixed into it. This is gonna be a gross comparison, but it's almost like meat. Like if you buy good meat, like you know you're eating meat versus if you're buying right like something like crab carrot, better example. It's like real crab versus breading. I don't.

Amy: 9:28

Okay, you've inspired me I need to try it. Well, the animals get into it.

Jen: 9:33

No, but I've spent in my yard around my Yeah, I

Amy: 9:36

do too, but okay. All right. The other

Katie: 9:39

thing also I have read a lot of studies about like actually having your hands in the dirt and how gardening is really good good for you. It's grounding, it's good for the soul and there's like good bacteria in there that it's okay if it makes its way into your system and all of this stuff. So yeah, it's it's what's up

Jen: 9:59

probiotics? specifically, specifically about it. Yeah,

Katie: 10:01

yes thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I love that. That's also

Jen: 10:05

a holistic functional practice going outside barefoot. So my daughter has to refuses to wear shoes, and is constantly people constantly make comments. And I'm like, listen, she's grounding. This is a practice, but it is like it's part of a meditation process for a lot of people.

Amy: 10:22

I've heard that that you should go outside with no shoes on and like grounding. I keep hearing about that. And it's funny because I do like to be outside with my shoes off. And I didn't know it was like a thing. And Jackson, my older son also walks around all the time with new shoes on outside and say, I'm gonna I'm like, that's good. He's getting the Earth. He's feeling Yeah,

Jen: 10:41

you can join the compound because we're total hippies. And we're gonna go, yeah.

Amy: 10:48

I love it. I also was just listening. I put it on Instagram this week. But I don't know if any, if you listen to the podcast, the Huberman lab

Jen: 10:58

I do. Andrew Yang and Dr. Mann. Yeah, he's best with him. Obsessed. He's

Amy: 11:03

unbelievable. But he was on the skinny confidential this week. And I listened to both of those. And he was talking about so many different amazing practices. There's a part one and part two, and I'm just in the middle of part two, it's so good. But he was saying also a good thing to do in the morning is to go outside, no sunglasses, nothing and just like, be outside and let the light hit your eyes for like 10 or 15 minutes. And it's sort of like that grounding thing. It's like wakes up your body and it like sets your circadian rhythm and all this stuff is so interesting. But anyway, so yeah, I love that. Okay, give us some because I'm a snacker, good snacks, easy snacks, healthy snacks that we can, you know, think about packing in our bags or grabbing on the go. So you don't

Jen: 11:43

want me to just say fruits and vegetables.

Amy: 11:49

And mean, you can grab a banana or an apple, but like, anything new any like, I mean, because we grabbed them or like fruits, veggies nuts, but like,

Jen: 12:01

okay, means I'm really into beans. So there's, it's a blue package, I want to say it's called the O Bean on Amazon. And it's at a mommy. It's just dried roasted at a mommy. But it's like 11 grams of protein, I want to say at 90 calories. There's some fiber in it. And it's a blue package. And I used to give it to my kids for their lunches. And now I'm like I'm bringing these to sporting events because you guys make me sit here for six hours. They're absolutely delicious. And Amazon has I mean, like the single servings. I'm also really into Brahmi right now, which neither of these are like new for the record there. Joe, I know that brand, the BR AMI and it's lupini beans also but these are not dry roasted. So the edamame one, they're crunchy like that texture. I'll throw them on a salad if I'm not eating them plain because they're delicious. Whereas the Brahmi you actually could also throw in a salad but they're I mean, they're they're like there's a big

Amy: 12:52

beans, right like the big white beans or fava beans.

Jen: 12:57

They're lupini beans, I think lupini beans, but fava beans is also a good one. But the Brahmi has single serving ones also. And they have different flavors. So I'm really into they don't require refrigeration. And you can eat the content like it's you know, it's probably this big the packet itself.

Amy: 13:15

That's good. That's good.

Jen: 13:17

Um, she I mean, I'm still in the snack islands and snapin has a salt and vinegar ring

Amy: 13:21

I love by now I saw that on your feed and I need to get those because I love snack length. And I haven't had them in

Katie: 13:26

a while. It's absolutely I mean, is that the what is that? Yuka Okay, yeah,

Amy: 13:32

but they're really light and crunchy and so yummy.

Jen: 13:36

One of my clients compared it to a vegan pork rind. I've never had a pork rind because I grew it is like that. But it looks a bit like that. But they're very fluffy. And what are those? Did you see those water? Have you seen the water lily puppy things?

Amy: 13:52

Right if you tried every snack known to man Yeah,

Jen: 13:55

yeah, I peed. I have clients that are into them. I personally, I'm not sure if I've ever tried them. I should though. I mean, they're

Amy: 14:02

good. They're a little like sweeter. I like the I like the snack ones better, but they're good. They're good. It's good to have a variety of things and those beans I've had before but I had like a bigger bag and I ate too many of them. I didn't feel well, so I was like, I'm gonna get the snack bags. I'm not like overdosing on them. Yeah. Jen, what's

Katie: 14:20

your position on like these healthy popcorn brands? Like the 100 Calorie pack skinny pop popcorn? I mean, are you pro corn anti corn? Like what's your thing? Just curious.

Jen: 14:32

Okay with corn. I feel like the issue with corn in this country is just more so like that. It's what what it it's bad to cows and almost kind of going back to the beginning of our conversation. It's not only corn, there's there's like candy in it and like all of this crap. And then when we are if we are I'm a meat eater like I'm not an exclusive carnivore but I eat meat. And then if I am eating that, you know, I believe we are not the You are what you eat, but you eat what you ate ate. Does that make sense? Like if my cow was eating grass, and then I'm eating the meat from the cow.

Katie: 15:10

Oh yeah. You're eating? What? Yes. Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. It's like the chain.

Jen: 15:16

Yes. Chain. Yeah. So the to me the gross pneus of corn is that it is in cow feed, but there's so much other crap mixed into it. But like I eat corn on the cob. I eat what are those? This is actually good snack those like big, like corn things from

Amy: 15:36

Whoa. Oh, those

Katie: 15:38

Oh, the corn kernel. Like the crunchy? Yeah.

Jen: 15:41

Those are delicious. Yeah, like very I love I love adding things like for texture, like into salads and stuff like that. Like that is a great added great pop of. So to go back to your question. I'm not anti corn had the lesser evil popcorn before that was delicious.

Amy: 15:58

That's the one you had at my house. Katie recently? Yeah. Like, yeah,

Jen: 16:01

yeah, I think I don't think smart pop puts anything in there stuff. I mean, I have like a bit of a negative association with anything that's like, like 100 Calorie packs, just because I don't know, there's like a psychological piece to it. But I also think it's really beneficial. Because quite honestly, we eat what's put in front of us, like, at every age. I mean, I see even with my children, I can give them a bag that's this big or a bag that this big. And they think they need to eat most, if not all of it. So there's something really beneficial about the single serving despite the fact that it's not really good for our environment.

Katie: 16:33

Yeah, that's so true. And to your point, the chain of like, you're eating what what you ate, had for breakfast. It's very true, because I haven't, I have an egg intolerance. And I was told find chickens that are not fed soy, because I'm highly intolerant to soy, because a lot of them are given soy feed. And so it's like, it's not the egg that's bothering me. It's the soy that the chicken ate that's in the egg that's bothering me. So yeah, this is

Jen: 17:01

not along exactly like that. But I was actually having a conversation with a friend who she was saying she can't drink wine anymore. And she's like, why can't I drink wine? And I'm like, I bet you there's so things in your wine, and there's still dates and all wine and you can buy organic wine and it's lower and sulfates but you know that they have filters now can buy single filters. You literally throw them in your glass of mine and you can enjoy your vine without getting a headache and feeling

Katie: 17:27

really. That's interesting.

Amy: 17:30

So yeah, I drink usual wine, which is an organic wine single serve and supposedly there's much lower sugar in it and no sulfites or maybe it's just low sulfites. I don't know, but I want to try those discs. I haven't heard of that. That's cool.

Jen: 17:46

They're like, they kind of like a silver package. And they're just like, a filter, and it filters them out. Because it's almost, if you're buying organic wine is definitely better than non organic wine. But it's similar to and I feel like I'm always using comparisons, but coffee. If you have decaf coffee, there's still little caffeine in it. Not much. Right? Right. So a little bit of it. And that's my assumption is it's pretty comparable from a wine perspective. If you're having organic wine, it's still gonna have some salt base just a lot less for the lower sugar. I mean, that mean that's huge. Like if you I don't know if how if you're a wine person or not, or how even gotten this direction, but I think Summer Wine, it makes sense. Yeah. You get really, you sleep poorly. You're sleeping more basically, it's the sugar because the sugar is waking you up because your blood sugar's spiking, dropping and then that's what's wake you up in the middle of night, there's sugar in the wine. So I would actually imagine from that aspect as well, the organic wine would be really helpful.

Amy: 18:46

So on that topic of cocktails and drinking in the summer, because we tend to be out more and drink more and all that. What's your go to for like low sugar, like as clean as you can get? Cocktails?

Jen: 19:01

I got this. Tequila, soda water and three limes. I can't tell you if you're nervous to go really like just I would to ease into it. I would say a splash of grapefruit juice, but ideally like fresh grapefruit juice, because that also cuts it really well with like the sourness

Amy: 19:22

of grapefruit juice and what kind of tequila Do you like?

Jen: 19:25

If I'm being a snob? I'll go like class at school but that should not be mixed with soda water. I actually did it once and was yelled at. Oh, good like casamigos Um, that episode. Oh, probably.

Amy: 19:38

Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.

Katie: 19:40

It sounds good. I'm a wine drinker. And I do I have read that wine and white wine and champagne are lower in sugar than a lot of other, you know, alcohol options. So I feel like if you can't do the hard stuff that tequila, then I think actually Champagne is the Is champion the least amount of sugar? I think I've heard that the dry the really dry champagnes

Jen: 20:05

really dry when I would say not like a Prosecco, right dry one.

Amy: 20:09

But we love percent.

Katie: 20:13

I'm not gonna say no to champagne though, either.

Jen: 20:16

Every day the celebration. I would say if you want to pace yourself, I would put, I would make it into like a spritzer bow. Like I've done that before. If I'm going, like, for example, I told you, I have a winery visit tomorrow. My plan is to get the wine with soda water to cut it, so that it's more of a spritzer and that I can you know, I can last longer and be cool.

Katie: 20:41

Very smart. Yeah,

Amy: 20:42

that's a good idea.

Katie: 20:43

I love and you know what? It's also really refreshing in the summer by the pool outside a white wine spritzer. Yeah, it's yummy.

Amy: 20:51

fruit in there. Yeah.

Jen: 20:53

Right. Kind of ruined it with them. I'm just getting like they are. They're really, I mean, they like they add so many calories. Like, I think we've talked about this. Maybe I have a client, a man who he lost like 11 pounds in a month. And the only change he made because he gave up alcohol. Like he's like, I just want to see and he No and, and I'm like, that's insane. Like he was still eating everything that he loved. And just crazy. Like how how it creeps up and you don't even realize

Amy: 21:25

Yeah, he's also he's also a man that was gonna say the exact same Yeah, like, if I cut out alcohol for a month, I would lose like half a pound. I mean, let's be honest. But I was actually going to give one fun hack, which I did like I remember I read about this years ago, and I haven't done it in a while. But you just reminded me of the champagne in the spritzer if you take blueberries, raspberries and put them in the freezer. They become like ice cubes. And then you can put them in your spritzer or water or whatever, and they're yummy. So

Jen: 21:54

you're now reminding me that's a great tip. Thank you. You're reminding me of last summer. I made my kids love watermelon. I always buy watermelon and we can eat like I mean a half a watermelon in a day in our house. I took the leftover because it was it was like two or three days and I was worried it was gonna turn froze the watermelon. Then I took it and put it in a blender with like fresh limes. And meanwhile, like it wasn't a sorbet texture was more like an icy texture like a Slurpee texture. I mean, I've never had I had mine. passerby I mean nutritious but yeah, it was like a watermelon Slurpee. It was literally just like lime juice and the watermelon but because it was frozen, it was that beautiful. But I should and had every intention of trying to put alcohol in that because I think that would also be delicious.

Amy: 22:42

Ooh, that sounds so good. And how did you freeze the watermelon? Like in just like little balls?

Jen: 22:46

Yeah, like I don't even have a pretty ball thing. It was like I cube the watermelons for my kids anyway, so I had like an a glass Tupperware thing and then I put it in my freezer.

Amy: 22:55

Yeah. Oh, I love that. That sounds so good. Yes. And you could mix them a little vodka tequila sounds

Jen: 23:01

amazing. I have to try it and I will let you know when I do. I will invite you. I love it.

Katie: 23:07

What about I have a question for the next recommendation. Do you have any like detox teas? I mean, you see people that are making these things with the ginger and Tumeric like what's what's your jam on? Do you have something?

Jen: 23:20

I do? So it's funny because again, you're like every word is really triggering for you Jen you're very specific picky. I hate the word detox like our livers job is to detox right like we don't need to go on a detox like we have an entire organ that does that for us that said and this is more of a not I feel puffy, although I think it would benefit because it will it's it will it's anti inflammatory and will lower inflammation in your body which is generally can manifest as just essentially puffiness in your skin. But I actually more take it if I'm not feeling great for an immune boost. So what I do is hot water. Fresh ginger, so fresh grated ginger, a little bit of honey because honey is antimicrobial. Oh half juice from half of a lemon and then Ceylon cinnamon,

Katie: 24:06

Ceylon what's Ceylon cinnamon?

Jen: 24:09

So there's cashes cinnamon, and Salem Ceylon is d Y L O N That's just the one that's I mean, I should say supposedly because the science of nutrition is just so interesting and I feel like there's always new articles like I'm literally always on PubMed and I'm like like finding and you can which is really sad probably find any you could find a study that will prove anything you want at this point if I'm being perfectly honest, I don't know if I'm supposed to say that but Ceylon cinnamon is supposedly the one that is actually anti inflammatory versus the cash is cinnamon, which I think is not as I want to say not as it's not the word not as fresh but not doesn't have the same properties so Ceylon cinnamon is as you can imagine a higher price point it's almost like that manuka honey thing versus like regular honey right?

Amy: 24:54

What do you store Yeah, I was gonna say like, if you just pick up cinnamon How would you know what kind it is?

Jen: 24:59

If you Pick up red ocean and then assume that it's not Ceylon but like Whole Foods like what's the brand if frontier it's like the Black Label the frontier like that they haven't say a lot. It'll say Salem cinnamon.

Amy: 25:11

Okay. All right, so we got some really good tips there. There's probably a million more, but we're gonna go to Katie because she's got some summer products she wants to tell us about. So I'm excited to hear them. Yeah. So

Katie: 25:23

I am super excited to share these because they're like game changers for me. And I just discovered them recently. And I'm obsessed. Well, Amy knows one of them. One is the secara Matt metabolism, super powder. I just started using it recently. And it definitely is all that it's cracked up to be like it. It helps with bloat. It helps with digestion, it helps with puffiness. It also gives me energy and kind of like, helps with mental clarity as well. It's super yummy. And I just think it's great for going into summer because I know Jen doesn't like the word detox, but it kind of feels a little bit like that. And also like it's just it just kind of like speeds up your metabolism, which is what it says it's supposed to do, which helps you know, flatten the tummy and things like that. So I really love it. It's a huge bag, you can get a 30 serving pouch for $90. A little steep, but I use like half of a half of the scoop every time I use that. What do you think about a Gen?

Jen: 26:25

I have a question I want to Yes. Okay. I mean,

Katie: 26:29

I would love to. And just

Amy: 26:30

while she's getting that out, I've used this metabolism that I've used. I use it a while ago. And I used it for a little while and I put it in my coffee and I think it was fine for me. I didn't really notice that much of a difference. And it was funny when Katie was getting it she asked me and I was like yeah, for me. It was okay. Like it wasn't bad. It wasn't I didn't. I didn't notice a major difference. But Katie has noticed the difference was which is great. So I think it just works maybe for some people and not for others. Yeah,

Katie: 26:55

I think so too. The ingredients are raw cacao powder, coconut milk powder, l glutamine, horsetail extract, kelp extract, tonight. Gymnema sylvestre extract, coconut sugar, it has a 1% blend of stevia and low how gow extract

Jen: 27:19

Chinese that's from traditional Chinese medicine. That's an herb that's commonly used in TMC.

Katie: 27:25

Okay. And then the last Oh, and TMC, which is bad. And is that no traditional

Jen: 27:29

Chinese medicine?

Katie: 27:30

Oh, I'm sorry, I got something else.

Jen: 27:36

Very common herbs in traditional Chinese medicine that it's okay.

Katie: 27:40

And then the last one is black pepper fruit extract. So, I thought it clean suckers.

Jen: 27:48

I mean, it's our glutamine that's giving you the metabolic effect. Okay. And the others are probably to make it palatable, but also like ingredients that aren't going to hurt you.

Katie: 28:00

Yeah. And they said that I think it's the horsetail extract that kind of helps with, like, like, helping you with bloat and puffiness, kind of getting rid of like extra water weight and things like that. But yeah, so I love that one. Alright, here's the next one. It is it's a red bag. Yep, exactly. I'm sure you've seen it all over social media. Alright, so get ready to have your mind blown. Whoa, there's this new tool that I have been wanting to get for years, but it was so expensive. Three years ago, I was like, alright, this isn't in my future. It is, I think just more available to the public now. So the price is more palpable. It's called the lumen. The lumen metabolism, hack, or hacker?

Jen: 28:48

You're gonna see a jade roller, I'm not gonna lie.

Amy: 28:51

Oh, yes, come on. Alright,

Katie: 28:54

so this is it. And what it does is it measures your co2 output that tells you if you are burning fats, or carbs, you blow into it. And the reason why I know that this is legit. Years ago, when I first started with my autoimmune stuff, my husband, I didn't know what was going on. We went to this very, like intense clinic in New Jersey with legitimate doctors and all of the tests and everything. They run everything under the sun. And one of the first things they had me do was blow into a device to see what the strength of my metabolism was. I think it was like my, like resting metabolic rate or something like yeah, so that is, yeah, so that is via checking your co2 output, and that's exactly what this does. So I blow into this. It's connected to my phone, and it tells me what I'm burning and then it gives me a plan for the day should I eat some more carbs today? Should I stay away from the carbs and the whole So is to get you to what they call metabolic flexibility. And it's where engine knows. Alright, Jen just perked up, you know,

Jen: 30:10

metabolic flexibility? And I bet you

Amy: 30:12

do. I would like that I definitely don't

Katie: 30:14

have it. Yeah, so that's what I'm working towards. And that's where your body, Jen, help us understand what that what that is,

Jen: 30:22

oh, that literally means what you think it means, which is that your body can metabolize all of the macronutrients, so fat, protein, and carbs. So what happens is with diet plans, like if you went on keto, for example, you're only eating fat, so your body and it's there. So there's, this is actually harder to explain than I thought, there's nine calories and one gram of fat, there's four calories in one gram of protein and carb. So when the concept behind keto not to get too into it is like if you're fat fueled, and you're only eating of a high amounts of fat, and you're limiting, like severely limiting, like under 10%, your carbs and proteins, then your body is living off of ketones, but you need to eat a lot less because there's so many more calories in that like, that's why it works, right? Like if there's only if there's nine calories and one gram of fat, you can eat a lot fewer, like more than half the amount than if you're eating if you are fueled by carbs and proteins. Does that make sense?

Katie: 31:21

Yeah, and also, go ahead. No, no, continue.

Jen: 31:25

I love that about the flexibility means that your body can digest all of those versus like you having to go on some specific diet plan or like your body really only knows how to digest one of those macros, because yeah,

Katie: 31:37

yeah. And also I read as well, that when you like, stop eating carbs, you stop making these enzymes that help you break them down, and all of that. And, Amy, I don't know if you remember we Amy years ago, before we knew better Amy and I were like really into keto for a while. And then when we tried to come off of it. It was crazy. It's like we couldn't eat a carb without feeling like we were going to put on five pounds. And I think it's exactly that. Do you remember that? You said, I feel like this screwed my body up. And I can't even eat a piece of bread anymore. So that'd be the piece of red. And again, like three rounds. Yeah, that's like exactly what the opposite of metabolic flexibility is. So this is a tool that you use to basically collect data and you have to be engaged, you check your you check, you check it multiple times throughout the day. And eventually using the data properly and applying it to daily life, it should get you to metabolic flexibility. So I'm all about like, you know, give me the data. And I'm a biohacker I

Amy: 32:33

love it. That's so cool. Wait, so explain how it works. So you blow in it. And then what? What's the output? What does it say

Katie: 32:40

in an app in my phone, it's Bluetooth. And it tells you it's like a little scale. One is your burning fat five is your burning carbs. And then there's in betweens, and the goal is to you know, like wake up at a one so you know that you're burning fat through the night. i This morning, I woke up at a five because I had pasta and wine last night. So you know that makes sense. But yeah, I'm still learning it. I've had it for a week. And it is complicated. It does take commitment. But yeah,

Amy: 33:15

but it's interesting, very cool. I think it's hard to know, like, I have no idea that you don't really know how your body is working unless you're super in tune. So that can really help to guide because I don't like you're right, like sometimes you eat something you feel a certain way. And like, yeah,

Jen: 33:32

I will interject and tell you that your body will always choose to burn carbs. First of all right? Like, that's why when you're running, if you're running a marathon or something like our bodies are smart, they know that as a quick source of energy. That's why every four to five mile marker, if you're doing a race, they're gonna have gummies and things that hit your bloodstream really quickly. Those are carbs like sugar is a is the literally the most accessible, digestible form of carbohydrate, it's not so good for you, because then your blood sugar spiking and your cravings are all over the place. But your body will definitely choose to digest carbs. So it sounds like this is helping you know what to eat so that your body is like, Hey, listen, we're not only digesting carbs, we got to like, move on to the other stuff. I'm concerned.

Katie: 34:12

Yeah. And also the other thing too, is like I'm attuned to my body, but just because I'm attuned to my body, I might crave carbs, but that doesn't mean my body needs carbs. There's other factors like hormones and things at play that could be making me crave carbs. So to have something tell me whether or not I really need them in that moment. Is is a tool that's a very useful tool. Yeah,

Amy: 34:34

so for this what's a cotton muddiman No, no, but the flexibility metabolism, linear metabolic flexibility. That is what when you can eat things without like gaining or losing weight, like you kind of stay the same and

Jen: 34:53

raising your blood sugar. So like if you were a diabetic, for example, and you were really obsessing over your blood sugar being in a healthy range, that would also be beneficial. So metabolic flexibility just means that no matter what you're eating, you're not, it's not going to affect not only your metabolism, but also your blood sugar and other like biometric factors.

Amy: 35:12

Interesting. So by using a tool like that, you could see how you were that day and then kind of like base your meal plan essentially on that,

Katie: 35:19

then it gives you a meal plan macros and everything. Oh, that's cool.

Amy: 35:24

Based on like, it'll tell you how to eat Yes, off of your

Katie: 35:27

score. It gives you a meal plan, like oh,

Amy: 35:28

that's so cool.

Jen: 35:29

The illuminator the lumen

Katie: 35:32

l you, me and for the listeners will have it in the show notes. So I went is this Jen Silverman approved? Are you

Jen: 35:41

interested in it? I'm totally going to DM them and ask them to send me one for free so that I can post about it. Yeah,

Amy: 35:46

maybe I need to do that again. Yes,

Katie: 35:48

it's it's not I mean, it's not super affordable, but it is up to I believe it was 299. And then you have a four month subscription to the app that does all the things and then pay another 299 to keep in that program. Or you can be like my goal where I'm trying to really use it, learn it. Right figure out ways to like personally hack it into my life. kind of love that. Yeah.

Amy: 36:16

Okay, that's really cool. And I definitely want to research that more. And Jen will circle back with us and give us her yay or nay on it, but it sounds pretty legit. Very cool. Yeah, it is.

Jen: 36:27

We're a numbers nerd.

Katie: 36:28

I'm also like a research geek.

Jen: 36:31

Metrics person then

Katie: 36:33

metrics

Amy: 36:34

are whoop. What's up? Like just listening? Yeah,

Katie: 36:38

I need one of those. No, that's

Amy: 36:39

the sleeping thing. I know. Well, there's

Jen: 36:41

the aura, raise their aura. And somebody gave me a whoop, and I don't want to activate it because I'm not like you in that regard. And that I don't want to wake up and see that my whoop is at 10% recovery and then not like move my body because I'm like, Oh, but I feel okay, but it's telling me that I shouldn't like I would read too much into it. Like I've had rice like Christmas time and I will not activate it and everyone's like learn

Amy: 37:06

and it tells you what is it do it measures your sleep and like and how well you

Jen: 37:10

Yeah, and not it's not as much like how many hours although will tell you that it's more like your recovery because you know, there's the sleep where you actually like get decent sleep and then there's a sleep that you're restless and you're waking up and you're you know, I don't know, I guess show REM sleep but it tells you like how are you burnin output and

Katie: 37:29

oh, I want one. Yeah,

Amy: 37:30

yeah, I was just I keep hearing about this and it's very interesting. But sometimes it's like ignorance is bliss because you don't it's you could get crazy with it. But I Katie, like when I get like blood tests or different things with the doctors I like give it to Katie she's like my metrics nurse. Like she'll be like, oh, yeah, this this. I'm like, oh, okay, like I don't even pay attention.

Katie: 37:50

But like, yeah, I have the teeniest tiniest wellness hack for like helping with bloat and a flat stomach that I think is great for summer. Right? Okay. Yes, peppermint tea with lemon. But prior to that the Trader Joe's No joke, Ginger shot. If I take the if I'm bloated, you know, gasoline, whatever. I take this. And then I drink peppermint tea with lemon. I'm doing it now. And it helps get rid of all of that. So that's just one nice little treat to Joe's lemon. The Trader Joe's organic, no joke. Ginger shot. It's a blend of coconut water, ginger, lemon juice and a little bit of cayenne pepper. And then pepper. I used to Trader Joe's organic peppermint tea with some lemon slices. And it like it really helps

Amy: 38:38

with that's good to know, especially on a day after you've had pasta and wine sounds like exactly.

Unknown: 38:43

Yes.

Jen: 38:46

She has a breathalyzer and

Amy: 38:49

I know I'm like I'm imagining her

Jen: 38:51

pulling that out like in a publicly

Amy: 38:53

No, no, she's totally. Yeah. She's like, literally probably going to be at a restaurant and be like, Hold on. Let me take meglumine Okay, I didn't order salad or pasta.

Katie: 39:03

It's 100% the truth and people think I'm vaping it's ridiculous.

Amy: 39:07

Oh, that's so funny. That would be that would That's very funny. All right. Let's do okay, I'm going to end with a quick this or that summer edition. You ready? Yes. Okay, blueberry or raspberries,

Jen: 39:24

raspberries twice as much fiber by the way as blueberries.

Amy: 39:27

That's nice to know that okay. Next one. Beach or mountains.

Jen: 39:34

Each. My heart belongs to the beach.

Amy: 39:38

Like failure. I feel you Okay, hot coffee or iced coffee.

Jen: 39:43

Iced year round which is not in line with what I said about wow, I know but I would rather drink iced coffee around and then have hot water to warm myself up in the winter after

Amy: 39:54

okay. Okay and last one sweats or judged up

Jen: 40:00

Oh, sweat. I'm a natural beauty. Yes, you are. And I'm not. I don't look, you're already Asian. Like I don't. It looks weird. I got my makeup done once for a wedding. And my David looked at me and he was like you look like, like Trump like he's like

Katie: 40:19

well, you are very naturally gorgeous. Thank you.

Amy: 40:25

Awesome. Well thank you for your this or that. This is so much summary. Thank you for being on the show. This is so good. I love all these tips and tricks. We'll have to digest and put it all in the show notes because there's so many good things to get everybody ready for the spring and the summer and the roses and the tequilas and the snack lens and whatever else we talked about, and don't forget your Luna thing that one of us has gotten me. Oh, we all need to make this frozen watermelon situation and do some videos and like share them with each other.

Katie: 40:53

Good idea.

Amy: 40:54

Put them on Instagram. Okay, I love it. Thank you so much for joining us and so good to see you too. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 52 - Common Chiropractic Myths, Helpful Tips To Stay In Alignment With Dr. Debra Block - Part 2 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 52 Common Chiropractic Myths, Helpful Tips To Stay In Alignment With Dr. Debra Block Part 2.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. In this week's Part Two episode with Dr. Debra Block, we really get into the details. So last week, we talked about why chiropractic care is good for you and all the benefits. But this week, we really go deep into things you can do on a daily basis that can help you what to expect when you go to the chiropractor, what to look for, and more. So enjoy this episode. It's full of tips and tricks that we think will be really helpful.

Katie: 0:59

Amy, I'm curious why you were so scared of the idea of being adjusted. I mean, I love going in and getting my neck adjusted. And I know like something like, didn't you tell me that like that the whole thing kind of freaks you out that whole the whole neck adjustment?

Debbie: 1:13

I just want to say that Amy has asked me to rob her and touch her and examine her.

Amy: 1:17

I love a good massage and hands on my neck. I mean, always yes, yeah. Our whole moving your bones into a different place. Like only because and I'm sure people that are listening feel the same way. Like you've heard the horror stories of like, oh my god, I went to a chiropractor, I got my neck adjusted and like, I can't move or like you hear these. And it's miss. And that's one of the things I wanted to ask you, Debbie, like those common myths that people hear about. And I think that's why it was always because it's not just like, you know, you're you're adjusting the body. And if you don't go to someone good, something could happen. I mean, you're super qualified. And of course, I trust you with everything. So like, I felt so good. And it was funny, Katie, because Debbie was like, Oh, I can refer you to someone closer. You don't have to like, drive, you know, half an hour to see me. I'm like, No, I'm not going anybody. Like, you know, it's it's it's intimate to your point, and you want to trust the person you're with. And so I think that's why I tend to get over the fear. And now, I would happily go back to do it. But I think there's probably a lot of people that feel the way that I do. So Deb, what are you seeing as like myths that you can dispel for people, there's

Debbie: 2:21

lots of people who feel that way. And I do a tremendous amount of work. You know, my psychology degree really helps me with every single person I can sense and pick up on that even when someone's not telling me. So I really learn how I've learned how to and it's one of the I think it's one of the things I think every doctor should have is an understanding of where their patients coming from and being able being able to sense their own comfort or discomfort. But ya know, I do I do a lot of communication and explanation. And if I have to go really slow with people I do, we have non aggressive options that if I have to start out, you know, with an instrument instead of my hand so that they're not feeling the vertebra moving, then I will do that. But I do a lot of communication and a lot of explanation to get patients to feel more comfortable and you know, ease into it slowly. There are a lot of myths. Some of them are kind of laughable. My favorite one is Hey, Doc, you know, I've watched Jackie Chan movies, and he always breaks people's necks. And are you going to do that to be? Him? I want to be like, how dumb are you? Like, I don't say that. But you know, I first thing I say is okay, that's a movie, you know, like, that's fake. And I never took that class in school. Like, you know, I never learned how to break next, I only learned how to fix them. Now, I mean, are there any, you know, concerns and real reasons to be concerned? It's few and far between. And I will tell you that malpractice insurance wise, this is always interesting to people. When you look at health care providers, we have the lowest malpractice insurance cost of any health care provider because it's relative to the amount of injuries that are caused by the people in your profession. Wow. So the number of malpractice suits for somebody having been injured by a chiropractor are very, very low. So chiropractors malpractice insurance, like in comparison to a gynecologist and OBGYN who's I don't even know what the numbers are. But, you know, really exorbitant chiropractors are really, really very low rates because we really don't have many, many injuries. There are myths, the biggest one probably is besides this, you know, one that I just shared before is stroke. That's you know, people are like are we gonna have a stroke? And where that comes from is that there are patients with stroke symptoms that present like lots of other chiropractic patients neck pain, headaches, fatigue, range of motion restriction, those are typical for stroke for stroke patient, and they walk in. And they are most likely going to have a stroke sometime within the next few weeks. And if I were to do a Doppler ultrasound on those patients, which would evaluate the arteries in the neck, I would most likely see a clot what's called the thrombus, sitting in the artery waiting for that moment. And so if we don't properly screen for those patients with those issues, is there a possibility that we could adjust them and they could end up having a stroke a couple of days later, and then thinking it was the chiropractor? Who did it? Yes, that's happened. And chiropractors have had issues, you know, with that before, but it has been proven that it is not the chiropractor that caused the stroke, the stroke was going to happen. But the patient came in with symptoms similar to neck pain, headache, you know, patients, and the chiropractor that treated them didn't catch it because a Doppler ultrasound is not something you're going to order. Unless there's, you know, a very clear reason to do so.

Katie: 6:11

Yeah. So let's talk let's talk about that. Let's talk about when a patient comes in as a new patient, the screening that they go through the diagnostic processes that you do, to decide, you know, what they need, etc.

Debbie: 6:24

Yeah. So, obviously, patients fill out a lot of paperwork before they come in, they give me their whole health history, as well as their genetic family history. And have they had chiropractic care before? Have they had traumas have they had car accidents, you know, athletic injuries. So we get a little bit of a picture just from what they've filled out on paper. And then we sit down and have a detailed consultation where I asked all of those questions and we talk about them in depth. You know, what, what your family history is, is important. If you're a smoker, if you're a drinker, if your job requires you to be on your feet, or physical or sitting at a desk all day long, what your stress levels are, what your sleep and hydration and nutrition and exercise look like, what your pain is now, how you're describing it, you know, some of those descriptors can be really red flags for us, you know, worst headache I've ever had in my life is a big one that's refer out to hospital, they're most likely about to have a stroke or about to have potentially an aneurysm. I've, I've caught some scary things in my time. I actually just had a patient who came in post colonoscopy with a whole bunch of abdominal pain. And she was 41. Works out seven days a week in amazing shape and was coming to me for maintenance care to keep her spine in good alignment. She went for her, went for a colonoscopy routine and ended up having all of this abdominal discomfort two weeks later, and both of both her gastro her gastro and her regular doctor told her Don't worry about it, you know, give it some time. I was alarmed. There was something off about it. I said you need to go right away and have a have an ultrasound down and let's see what's going on. Turned out she had a ovarian tumor the size of a grapefruit Wow. emergency surgery within the week. Wow, I just got a while I have that kind of case walk in my office. I have referred out probably four or five strokes and my time. Usually they walk in and they're usually they're pretty obvious. I'm usually it's an older person. It's somebody who is slowed. I mean, I literally had a woman once years ago come in in a wheelchair. And she wasn't feeling well. Her husband pushing her in a wheelchair. She was in her 60s. And one of her feet. You know how in a wheelchair, you've got those foot pedals where you put your feet on, the foot pedals were up. And she was able to hold her left foot like you know, holding it still, but her right foot was literally dragging behind the chair. And I'm like 911 like something's not right. So yeah, I mean, we do have things like that walk in. So yeah, being a good diagnostician and not just looking at the spine. But looking at everything, you know, to the to the point of you guys talking throughout your podcast about kind of an integrative health care approach, which I think is ultimately part of your message. It's really hard to look at someone nowadays especially and not take into account their gastrointestinal health, their cardiovascular health, their gynecological health, their endocrine, health, and all of those things, play a part in what I'm doing. If I want to be a good doctor, talk to people about all of these things. And then once I get a really good understanding of what they're experiencing and what they're feeling and where they've been. Then I have them go through a range of motion. I'll look and see how they're moving and their lower back and their neck and their upper back. I'll do some orthopedic testing to see if there's an eye via sign of problem in the spine, and if they're having neurological symptoms like numbness, tingling, burning, loss of loss of muscle control or weakness, then I'll do some neurological testing. We also will palpate the spine and feel the areas that are bothering them to see what we can pick up with our hands. And, and then if necessary, depending on the age and the issue that's going on, and the history, I'll often refer out for either x rays and or an MRI, depending on what what they're dealing with. If I'm referring out for films, I bring them back and we go over the films once they've come back, we go over the findings, and then I'll treat them if there's no if there's no contraindication based on examination and history, then I'll usually treat on the first visit.

Amy: 10:49

Okay. Yeah, and what I was gonna say, I mean, you're obviously extremely thorough, and you I would hope that most other chiropractors are, but they probably might not be so like, How does someone find a trusted good chiropractor? Like, what would be the best way to do that?

Debbie: 11:05

That's a good question. I wish I could say there wasn't differences from one chiropractor to another. But I think that's probably true

Amy: 11:12

for every house, every kind of

Debbie: 11:15

industry, you know, there are some that are going to be you know, more in tune and aware and concerned and focused, and others who are going to kind of treat you more like a number and get in and get out. I always tell people who are moving to other states to ask, you know, I mean, nowadays with technology, there's so many great places like, you know, besides Facebook and neighborhood listservs there's also what is it that neighborhood app?

Amy: 11:42

Next door next door, thank

Debbie: 11:44

you. So there's lots of good ways. I mean, where I am, there's always people asking for, you know, who's a good chiropractor in town, and I'm always watching to see what people are saying. So there's lots of referrals, I would look start there, look for who else other people are seeing and you know, talk to them, especially if you've got something specific going on. Like I think you mentioned earlier, I treat pregnant women, but many chiropractors do not. So you know, if you're pregnant, you would want to look for other pregnant women who have seen a pregnancy trained chiropractor, because we are, you know, a unique bunch. And it's not something that everybody is well versed in. So looking for referrals, looking at people's websites, you know, what somebody puts into their website, I think really makes a difference and reading, seeing how that resonates with you, and then honestly going and meeting them. And if after that first visit, you don't feel like they're a good match for you, then you need to move on and go somewhere else. Yeah. Trusting your own intuition about how that person feels when they do they make you feel comfortable. Do you feel trusting? Do you feel like they're not what they know what they're talking about? Those are the things that I would recommend?

Katie: 12:50

Can I get? That's good advice. Yeah, that's great advice. Can I ask personal questions? Can I can I get a little diagnostics? I?

Debbie: 12:58

I'm very, very honest and revealing. So ask whatever you want.

Katie: 13:03

Well, I'm just curious. So and we talked about this actually, you're the Debbie's the whole reason why I went to a chiropractor recently, because I we chatted on the phone not that long ago, and I found a great chiropractor that I'm thrilled with there. I felt like that. They went through all the processes that you just explained, I feel, you know, really good feeling about them. So she did an x ray. And we found out that my hips were like, misaligned, and I'm thinking is I guess I'm just curious, like, is this something that I was born with? And it's just now aggravating me? Is this something that is happening over time? Like, like, how do these things? How does that even happen?

Debbie: 13:37

How old is your youngest? Okay,

Katie: 13:39

my youngest is four. My oldest is eight. Okay,

Debbie: 13:43

were you somebody who carry your kids on your hip? A lot? Yes. On your side? Yeah. Okay. And do you remember which side you carry? I

Katie: 13:51

carry them on the side all the time on my left, which hip is which hip is high? I don't remember exactly. But that makes perfect sense. Makes better. Zero. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. But it's just bothering me so much. You know, because you spent

Debbie: 14:06

eight plus four years carrying

Katie: 14:08

your children. Yeah. Yeah, no, I

Debbie: 14:10

mean, I don't know how long you were carrying your older one, probably, you know, probably, up until your younger one was born. I would imagine you've probably spent about four years, you know, off and on carrying each of them. And that in and of itself, you know, it's amazing. One of the reasons I got into pregnancy workers because I saw this huge void for moms, both pregnant moms and women after they give birth. I mean, in my opinion, that's the most physically taxing thing that we go through. And there's not much you can do to relieve your discomfort while you're pregnant. And post pregnancy after you give birth. Oh, my God, you're barely sleeping. You're changing diapers constantly. you're breastfeeding or you're bottle feeding. You're bending down and the biggest thing is that and this is what I think is amazing about moms women We forget about ourselves because our maternal age is so, so strong that whatever our children need, our needs are like, we don't even hear them. So if you have something in your head that says, Watch how you're bending, forget it, my kids crying, I'm picking them up and putting them on my head. So I watch moms every day put themselves into compromising positions at, you know, at the detriment of themselves for their children. And that I think, is just part of our DNA. So if you're not going to someone, or exercising, stretching, doing yoga, doing all of these things to counterbalance what you're doing on a given day, especially when your children are young, you will feel it and you will have issues and I I have like a kids free policy in my office where I say, you know, bring the kids if it means I can fix you, and you don't have to pay for a babysitter. Just bring them and I've got toys in my office. And sometimes we have lots of smart kids, but it's okay, because I'm there to help them off. And I sometimes help the kids too.

Amy: 16:00

Yeah, that's, that's a really good message. Because you're right, when you first make it, you're thinking about that, right? And so it's like, the last thing you would think about is like, going to get drafted or

Debbie: 16:10

when you're walking into your kid's room and they're crying on the veranda and you're like, are you thinking about how you're leaning into the grave? Or like 20 pounds, and you're like, great,

Amy: 16:20

and it's like, you're you're not doing a phase where you're thinking about taking care of yourself. I feel like that comes a little bit later. So you're not even thinking like all the things like maybe if you knew it, you knew now you would, maybe Ben differently or whatever, but I remember to when my kids were born, and I was holding them so much my like, wrists and forearms were like killing me. And I was like, This is so strange. And I was like, oh, whatever, right? You just ignore it. Right? Yeah, that's so interesting. I never thought about that I

Debbie: 16:48

educate my new moms about create space for you to you know, let your kid cry for an extra 20 seconds, so that you can put yourself in a better position before you start breastfeeding. Or, you know, don't change your baby on the floor. You know, let your baby you know, have a poopy diaper for another couple minutes, you know, and take them to a more ergonomic place for you to change their diaper, things like that. Just thinking about you know, doing things differently. So you're not harming yourself. So yes, Katie, your head, I would look to that. But one of the things that I do a lot with hips like that, especially if you see on X ray that there's a misalignment and you can ask your chiropractor, this, sometimes there's just like a little insert that you can put into the shoe. It's like cork and it can be anywhere from, you know, like three millimeters to nine millimeters, but goes under it can go underneath the insert to your shoe. And it'll just take your low hips. So if your hips are like this, you put it in this shoe, so that your hippo come up in balance. Oh, that's interesting, okay. And it's just a very benign, something that in you know, like I usually sell, especially for someone like you, you probably need a bunch of them for all your shoes. Like,

Katie: 17:58

I was gonna say, Do I have to switch it every time I've wear a different pair of shoes, because that would be a problem.

Debbie: 18:02

I just stick it in your shoe. And then you don't even have to think about it.

Katie: 18:05

Yeah, no, that's interesting. That's a great tip. I'm definitely going to ask about that. Because I like it's the alignments. And the adjustments are without a shadow of a doubt helping, but it's, it's not fixed yet. And I can tell and my other question for you is like, they want me to come three times a week. So when someone is first coming to you with a problem, how frequently do you like to see them? I can't get in three times a week. I'm trying but it's like, really once? What do you suggest?

Debbie: 18:30

So, you know, it's that's like a kind of a common, that's also a common myth. Or, you know, one of the things I had, I had thought about when you asked me that question earlier was, you know, do I have to see the chiropractor for the rest of my life, like, I don't want to become an addict, and you know, feel like I need this forever. That's, you know, a very common myth. When somebody first starts care, depending on the issue, and depending on what's going on with them, having them come twice, or three times a week is usually what's recommended for the first four to six weeks. And the reason is not because we're trying to get as much money out of them as possible. But it's usually because the chronicity of the problem has been there, especially with someone like you and your what you just described, it didn't just happened overnight, or over the last couple of months, it wasn't like you slipped and fell two weeks ago, and now your hips been bothering you, it's probably been building for quite a number of years. So to correct it is not something that's going to happen with one or two visits. And if we see you once a week or once every other week, you're probably going to return to the lifestyle habits that you're doing that are aggravating it. And so you're kind of like a bandaid instead of really trying to address the underlying problem, which we can do more readily if we see you in a closer together period of time and then we're telling the spine once it's coming out of alignment note you got to go back to this position and then we're also encouraging you while we're working on you to talk to you about how are you sitting and how are you sleeping and tell me when you sit down on the couch and watch TV Are you like you know holding your legs underneath your hips? Or are you you know, thinking about where your legs are, are you walking around the house barefoot, or, you know, like, all of these little things about your daily life are going to impact your your healing. So I want to both treat it regularly for the first four to six weeks. And I want to educate you so that you're doing the right things when you're not with me to help facilitate the healing, okay,

Amy: 20:26

someone would potentially go four to six weeks, and then they're kind of in maintenance mode under that we,

Debbie: 20:31

we have, everybody does it a little bit differently. But we have three phases of care. And I call acute for the first four to six weeks where I'm really trying to get you out of pain. The second phase was another four to six weeks, but we're seeing you less frequently, once a week, once every other week. And that's called stabilization, where I'm trying to just stabilize the issue. And then we move to maintenance, which is typically once a month or once every two or three months. And then I'm just maintaining what we've done kind of just making sure that you're still staying where you are. And you know that frequency can extend out if you're if everything seems good, but periodically, I just want to check your issue. And make sure that like the dentist that you're coming in and that your spine is aligned.

Amy: 21:10

Yeah. And I think it also depends on the severity of the issue, right? Because when I came to see you I came in a few times, but they weren't in the same week. I think it was like once every few weeks until I felt better. Yeah. And you know, now I haven't been back. So I think it also depends on feeling. Can I ask fine? Yeah, totally fine. I think, you know, just sometimes my neck will be in pain, but I'm a little bit more aware of it. I'm trying to stretch. And that's what I was gonna ask you to for listeners. So I love all the tips you just gave before. What are some tips like good stretches are things that people can do every day, to keep their body in alignment, a lot of people are sitting on computers, like what are small little things that people could start doing today.

Debbie: 21:49

So my biggest recommendation, and I do this every single day is to foam roll. I absolutely love foam rolling. And I think it is good for every single spine. We spend so much time compressed, you know both at the computer at work with our children, you know, we're in this compressed forward flex kind of state. And if you can open up your spine and expand it and have a foam roller that kind of is rolling across it and helping you to just elongate and extend. I think that's an awesome tool. And there's so many videos on YouTube that can show you how to foam roll. And that's a really inexpensive, something that you can buy at Walmart or Target. Yeah,

Amy: 22:32

that's a great tip.

Debbie: 22:34

So foam rolling number one, number two is when you are someone who's sitting in front of a computer all day or really anything at any job, I recommend stretching your neck, and I recommend stretching it in six different parts. So actually eight different positions you both have both are doing it. So she's posted lateral flexion. So left and right lateral flexion. Then you've got what we call flexion, which was going forward extension, which is going back, and then you've got rotation, which is turning to each direction. And then my favorite one, which is I call sniff the armpit where you're wearing the nose to the armpit and put your hand on the crown of the head

Amy: 23:12

and pull. Yeah, I love that one. Oh, yeah, that's a nice way you show me these, and I haven't been doing them. Yep, so

Debbie: 23:18

that's gonna really help both with the lower neck and the upper back and PT. What I then say is check your nose and take a deeper sniff. So go a couple degrees further. And then pull down towards

Amy: 23:29

this video out so people can see it. This is hilarious feel the upper back,

Debbie: 23:33

it's also a good opportunity to make sure that you're not smelly.

Amy: 23:37

Yeah, that's, that's really good. Because you just sit at your desk and do that when you're on a call. I yeah, I haven't been I forgot about those, I need to

Debbie: 23:45

recommend when you're in the car, and this is good for like, you know, my stage of life where I'm constantly driving my kids to a million different places, is all you know, just periodically, I recommend doing add a light not while you're driving, but I'll just retract my chin into the headrest, and just push and hold. And that helps to strengthen the anterior neck muscles. And we spend so much time on what we call forward head carriage with the phone and the computer. That by doing that and kind of using your head rests in your car, it really helps to remind your neck in your head that they Your head should really be right on top of your shoulders ear should be right on top of the shoulder within here. So kind of pulling back retracting like a chicken and pushing the head into the headrest and holding for five and then relaxing. That really is helpful. Yeah, I

Amy: 24:35

love all these tips because it's I think integrating these things into the things you're doing in your daily life. So it's not an extra task. It's like you're in the car anyway, you're at a light do that right? That was like one nostril breathing one amount of light just to relax. So I love that. Okay, so quickly before we get into our rap session. Deb, I want to hear about you know running your practice as a businessman. Then because not only are you taking care of people on the daily, but you're running a really successful practice, and it's a lot, so give us your kind of POV on that. I know you'd like that side of the business, but it's very different. It is,

Debbie: 25:11

it's hard, it's great. And I love it. And I think I love it because I like people a lot. And I think what makes you good at it is, is, is being good to people and knowing, knowing what you how people want to feel. So I think, you know, I've always been a people person. And I knew that I wanted to go into a field where I was working with people. But there's a difference between working with people and really being in the right space, in terms of helping them to feel both not intimidated, welcomed, you know, my patients, I mean, I have a community of people who, most of them come in and hug me hello. I mean, even you know, now we asked, like, is it okay, if I hug you because of the pandemic, you know, I have an environment that's really friendly and warm. And so that part of becoming successful was easy for me, the part and I'll just back up and tell you that I have a father, that's an entrepreneur, so I kind of grew up in your office and, and watching him build multiple businesses. And so one of the boxes that I wanted when I was in college and trying to figure out what my career was going to be, was a job in which I could be my own business owner someday, knowing that I could be a mom, and that I could have a family and I could also have a business. And in healthcare, that's a little hard because I didn't want to be on call. I didn't want to be, you know, needed on the weekends, I didn't want to deliver babies in the middle of the night. So this field fit for me in that regard that I knew I could create my own practice in my own business. But yeah, it is hard, I definitely have a lot more gray hair as a result. You can't tell because I highlight but but yes, it's stressful. And the hardest part is probably just managing people, staff management. And right now in the pandemic. I mean, this has been the hardest two years of my life. Being a healthcare provider through a pandemic has really been challenging. I think health care providers have very much been on the frontlines. with teachers, you know, we we've I mean, teachers were, I don't want to talk about teachers, they went through their own, you know, challenges, but I was, Amy, Amy and our other two closest friends and I have been on a text thread since a couple days before the pandemic really hit. And I was the only one going to work every day, they were all home working from home and their careers. And jobs continued in the comfort of their home and I was home for six weeks, and then back in the office with a ton of PPE on having no idea if I was gonna bring COVID back into my home. But having too many people in pain and hurting that I had no choice but to go in. So it's that part of the responsibility of, of being available for people, you know, in a snowstorm like I usually open and I'm usually there because I feel a responsibility to be. So it's an awesome it's an awesome reality that I've created this business and that it's successful. But it definitely comes with a lot of stress and a lot of burdens. That, you know, people who don't own businesses don't really know from right, but you wouldn't change it. No, I wouldn't, because I absolutely love the freedom and I could never imagine having someone tell me what to do now.

Katie: 28:35

Totalling? Yeah,

Amy: 28:36

I feel you on that. Okay, so we're gonna get into our rap session. So besides keeping your spine aligned, what would you say is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Debbie: 28:49

So I told you about the foam rolling, that's definitely number one and number two that you made that we didn't really touch on. And this is a big one for me, is I take a CBD gummy every night before bed nice. And I started doing that over the last six months six to nine months or so both because I feel more discomfort physically than I used to. And hormonally I am in a stage where I was like waking up in the middle of the night, every night at like three in the morning like on the nose and wide awake and couldn't get back to sleep and so that insomnia was something really new for me. And the CBD which has really awesome anti inflammatory benefits helps me to stay asleep and I have an awesome night of sleep because of a brand. So I actually saw this brand in my practice. It's called noetic nutraceuticals. And it was created by a friend of mine who I believe you know wholeheartedly in his science and in the process in which they went through to create it and that's probably a whole nother podcast in and of itself. But not all CBD is created equal.

Katie: 29:57

Yes, I agree with that. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, but

Debbie: 30:00

no, that's probably my best health hack besides the foam roll

Katie: 30:04

that's a good one. I'm gonna have to try it because I was doing CBD like tinctures for a little while at nighttime. This was a couple of this was like during the pandemic in the beginning, and you're right, they're not all created equal. Like I I had to stop because I don't know it just it wasn't working for me, but I would really love to try that one. Okay, sure. The next one, we call it our five minute flow. Just got out of the shower. Uber ping do their five minutes away. What are you going to do to get into that? Uber on time, get yourself ready? What are your holy grails your go twos?

Debbie: 30:33

You know, Amy's gonna totally laugh at this and she could probably answer this for me and the answer is Ubers gonna have to wait. That's like never a possibility for me to get out the door in five minutes. There's a joke. I'm I have an issue with punctuality. Getting out the door to five minutes. Uber might have to wait an extra minute or two. But yeah, what would I do? I I don't ever ever get dressed without putting body cream on all over. Face Cream. legs, hands. I think I'm like a little dry. So like if I don't do that, I feel weird. So that's number one. Number two would be hair gel. I have curly hair as you can see. And so like just throw hair gel in and then run out the door. And mascara lipstick even during masking lipstick.

Katie: 31:24

Wow. Really? Yeah. They make you feel good. Yeah,

Amy: 31:30

I mean, if you felt like finished, yeah,

Debbie: 31:32

finished or like, you know, like going out lipstick.

Amy: 31:35

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Okay, and how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Debbie: 31:41

Oh, that's a good question. And to be totally honest, there's lots of days where my nirvana is missing. I think it's hard. Being a mom business owner chiropractor. I am often needed by everyone else. And so the biggest challenge for me is creating space where I get to exist without anyone needing me. Some days I can accomplish it. And other days I cannot exercise. Nice weather this morning. I went out for a walk and oh my god, it's so gorgeous out. And honestly, this is gonna sound really ridiculous. My dog.

Katie: 32:17

Yeah, that's.

Debbie: 32:19

That's an unconditional constant. And I love that she doesn't really need much from me.

Amy: 32:24

That's yeah, sweet. What

Katie: 32:25

kind of dog kind of dog is she?

Debbie: 32:27

A beagle Collie max. And she's just

Amy: 32:30

as like the best dog you've ever met. She has the best personality. She's like a human. And she is like, so sweet and so friendly. And like, she's such a sweet.

Katie: 32:39

I love puppy Snuggles. That's great. I love that. Nice. Yes.

Debbie: 32:43

And that's probably what brings me my Nirvana more than anything is coming home to her because she is just always super happy and only wants to just

Amy: 32:52

she's obsessed with you.

Debbie: 32:55

And I'm obsessed with her. So it's I don't blame you.

Katie: 32:58

She's the sweet. That's

Amy: 32:59

awesome. So I have a quick product review that. I think Debbie, you might have an opinion on, which is why I wanted to review this today. And I haven't I don't have a full review because I'm still trying it. But I recently got this LED lights, like this red light. I'm gonna put it in the screen. I

Katie: 33:18

saw that in your bedroom. And I was like, Wow, is this contraption I'm not surprised. Amy is the one that has it, of

Amy: 33:25

course. So I've been wanting to try red light forever. Because I've heard it has really great benefits anti inflammatory, it's really good for so many different issues. And this one I got on Amazon. But I had seen it because I got a facial a couple of months ago or something and the woman when she had my mask on or something did this red light, but it was like a portable one. So we'll share a picture of it on our Instagram. But it's kind of like a small little LED light that's flexible and can go over your face. So you just sit there for 10 minutes or 20 minutes and it goes on your face. So I've I haven't carved out enough time to do it. Like a lot of people do it daily a couple of times a week. I have noticed that when I do it. My skin does look good, but I know it's cumulative. But I would love to hear your thoughts, Deb on red light therapy because I know it's very much like in vogue right now. And a lot of people are starting to use it. But I have heard it has incredible benefits, but I want to hear your point of view on it. Well,

Debbie: 34:14

I don't really know a lot about it and in terms of facial rejuvenation, but I would love to come over and try it at your house. But I know that my acupuncturists, we have red lights. We have red light lamps in my office and I dry needle and they do acupuncture and when I have the needles in the person's back, we put the red light on top. Yeah, and it's supposed to help further the benefit of the needle into the tissue. So I know that there's definitely some, you know, Eastern philosophy that the red light is really helpful and that it really can benefit you know tissue and wellness and reduce inflammation and all of that. So I would imagine it should be good For the face, I've never tried it.

Amy: 35:01

Yeah, and this one actually I use it for my face. But like if I had, you know, joint pain or something, they say, this is flexibles you could like put it on your arm, you could put it on your leg, you can really put it anywhere. We were actually thinking, forgetting one, but we've been researching like the red light saunas, like the big ones that you can walk in, because it's supposed to be just so good for you like for every part of your body. So anyway, I'm testing it out. I'll keep I'll keep the audience informed on it. But so far, so good. Just gotta carve out a little bit more time for it. But that's, that's a fun one. And

Katie: 35:29

Amy, the brand and the name of that and how much was oh,

Amy: 35:33

yeah, sorry, this one I researched. This one's on Amazon. It's called hydras, skincare PD, PDT, LED light photodynamic facial skincare rejuvenation, photon therapy machines $279. I will put a link to it, but I had researched this one. And I feel like this was the one she had recommended, etc. So we will talk about that. And just for everyone listening, if anybody wants to reach out to Debbie, I would say to go to your website. Right, Deb? Is that the best place for people to find you? It's blocked? chiropractic.com?

Debbie: 36:05

No, it's actually as Laurie chiropractic center.com. Sorry, Chiropractic Center. And there's a contact on there where you can just click and send an email and it'll come right to us that you're at if you're interested.

Amy: 36:18

Okay, perfect. Yeah. And then you're gonna close that. Go ahead.

Debbie: 36:22

No, I was just gonna say that. Besides chiropractic. There's also acupuncture and massage therapy, too. If that was something else, that somebody wanted to look for it, we can do a podcast in the future talking about those things.

Amy: 36:31

I know I would love to. And I was saying to Debbie, when I was there, I'm like, I need to spend a whole day here. I need to get adjusted, then I need to get a massage. These are all the things that I love. This is like, no mana day for me. But in Okay, and we always like to

Katie: 36:44

go Yeah, I was just gonna say like, that's something that I love so much about what you do. It's like it's holistic, you're approaching the body holistically. And I just, I think it's great. We were when we first started doing thinking about doing this episode with you. You know, you can think like we were saying before, like could the chiropractic care, it's just adjusting the bones in the spine, it but it's so much more than that. And I love that our listeners learned that today. And I just love your approach and everything. So thank you for being with us today, Debbie.

Debbie: 37:17

Yeah, you guys. I really appreciate you having me. All right.

Amy: 37:20

And we always like to close out with a mantra to set a tone for the end of the episode. So Katie has one for us today.

Katie: 37:26

I do and it is Be kind to yourself. Your body is a temple and You are the Goddess that resides within it. So to carry your body and go find a Kyra

Debbie: 37:41

episode. It's perfect. Thank you.

Amy: 37:43

Good one. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 51 - Align Your Spine And Your Health With Dr. Debra Block - Part 1 (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 51 Align Your Spine And Your Health With Dr. Debra Block, Part 1.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

.Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation.

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And I'm so excited. We have been wanting to have my best friend Debbie on the show for so long. She's very, very busy. So I'm very happy that she's here with us today. And this all started because I've always been scared to go to the chiropractor, which is crazy, because I know it's not a big deal. But for some reason, I was always freaked out, as Debbie knows. And I recently went to Debbie and experienced the whole thing. And it was incredible. And it opened my eyes to the world of it. So we wanted to have the show to kind of shed some light on the chiropractic category. And Debbie is the perfect person to do this. So I won't call her Debbie. That's my friend Debbie. But Dr. Deborah Block always knew that her purpose in life was to help people to improve their lives. After attending the University of Florida and obtaining her BS in psychology. She realized that she wanted to help people improve their health, both mentally and physically. She discovered the awesome benefits of chiropractic care in 97. While attending life University in Georgia, Dr. Block received her doctor of chiropractic degree in 2001, and went on to develop her own practice within a group in Georgia and after practicing in Georgia for a few years, she decided to return home to Maryland to continue practicing chiropractic close to her family and friends. So after joining a practice there for five years, she decided to open her own practice in 2008. And accomplish her dream of running her own practice and treating patients with the individualized attention and high quality care that she feels patients deserve and need in this current world of health care. So Debbie has owned her successful practice for 14 years that has grown into that has grown to include chiropractic, acupuncture, massage, therapy, and weight loss. For the entirety of her career, Dr. Block has consistently educated herself on the newest latest and greatest advances in the chiropractic profession, as well as the latest developments in patient care. She is certified in the Webster technique for chiropractic care during pregnancy, I know you do a lot of focus on pregnancy. And as a member of the International chiropractic Pediatric Association, she is also certified in dry needling, Dr. Blocks philosophy is to care for patients in a way that she would want to be cared for she strives hard every day to be the type of doctor that can give patients the assistance that they're looking for, whether it's with a smile, a friendly greeting, a courtesy phone call, a hug or individually individualized attention. She has done all of this over the past 20 plus years, all while raising twins that just turned 16. And I can attest to all of the hard work and passion Debbie has put it Dr. Block sorry, has put in over the years, because I just went in for the first time and I can see the care that she puts into the practice and the way even that she worked with me, but she worked with me the same way she works with all of her patients. And it's really rare because you definitely don't go to practices a lot where the doctors actually take an interest. It's more of a, you know, machine where people are in and out. So definitely a special experience when you're working with Debbie. And I think also, as I was thinking through this preparing for this interview, I was like Dr. Block has really been an early adopter in this like holistic health space. I mean, you've been doing this for so long. And I think you know, over the last 510 years, it's become in vogue, all of this holistic health and all of this, but it really wasn't when you started doing it. And I think you probably got a lot of looks and stares like oh, what field are you going into? And it's so mainstream now. So I want to hear a little bit about that. And not only that, I mean, and I was thinking about this, too. You're an entrepreneur, and you have this amazing practice. And not only you're treating patients, but you're running a business, and it's so hard. And that's why, for our listeners, it's been so hard to get Debbie on. She's so busy. But it's such an interesting topic. We haven't had anyone in this field on the show. And so we wanted to have her on and kick off all the questions we have about this incredible career and occupations. So welcome to the show, Debbie.

Debbie: 4:40

Thank you so much. That was an awesome introduction. I can use one of those like every week.

Amy: 4:45

I know right? You listen, you're like oh my gosh, I really have accomplished a lot.

Debbie: 4:48

Thank you. Yeah, it's awesome. Thank you. That was sweet.

Amy: 4:52

Yeah. So we are going to start off the show as we always do with our weekly nirvana. So this is where we talked about something that's sparked a little joy in our week or day or month, whatever it may be big or small, something that just sparked joy and put a little smile on our face. So I will hand it off to Katie to start. Thanks, Amy.

Katie: 5:10

Well, let me say hi to Debbie. Dr. Block. Are we calling you Debbie? Are we calling you Dr. Block? What are we doing here tonight?

Debbie: 5:17

Debbie director blocks to formal for this.

Katie: 5:19

All right. Well, I'm so happy you're here. And I can't wait to pick your brain. But before I do my nirvana of the week, I just want to mention I was perusing your website. And on Google, there was a review about Dr. block that was just so great that I just wanted to say it's so sorry to if this embarrasses you, but it says I've been in there. It's a great, it's such a good review says I've been in the military for 30 years, I have received medical care in seven states and three countries, I have not experienced a more professional, hard working and effective health care provider. Dr. Block is one of the best period that's from John L on Google. And I just thought that says somehow it says so much. So I just wanted to say,

Amy: 6:04

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah,

Katie: 6:06

so my nirvana of the week, I'm going to think might be the same as Amy's we'll have to see. We had a photoshoot on Thursday for the Nirvana sisters brand for our website and our branding and everything that we're expanding and growing with. I was just in Maryland for the week for spring break with the kids and so that the cousins can be together and Amy and I could get some work done actually work face to face for the like, it never happens literally ever. So that was great. That was my nirvana. It was such a fun day. We had such a great time. And the funniest thing was like Amy was saying to me, you know, used to be a model, you know, you're doing she's like, I feel like I'm gonna be so stiff. I don't know what to do. And I was giving her some tips and then the camera comes on. And I mean, did this girl come alive or what? Like she she was like, so vivacious and having so much fun. And it was it was so it was just great. It was such a fun day. So what was your Ami? What was your nirvana?

Amy: 7:07

Yeah, I Yes, mine is definitely the same one. And we normally don't have the same Nirvana's. But yeah, I mean, it was such a fun day. It was just nice to be able to do something that was our own and really lead the vision in the direction and it was just super fun. And yeah, we're building our website. And so a lot of these photos we use on the website and all of this stuff. So it's super fun. What about you, Deb?

Debbie: 7:29

I can't wait to see them. Yeah, um, mine has to be tied to my kids, which I don't know if that's allowed or not. Yes. So I have had a crazy week with work. It's been one of those, like everything that could go wrong went wrong this week. And it's been super stressful. And one day after work, I was running to my daughter's lacrosse game and picking up my son from work. And I had this like two hour block where I got to watch my daughter and her joy on the lacrosse field. She plays for her high school team and watching her you know, really successful and really aggressive and really loved by this group of girls that she's playing with. This is a brand new sport. She literally like picked up a lacrosse stick for the first time right before tryouts. And I really watched all of the stress of my week just kind of leaves me seeing her and her joy and seeing what she's, you know, able to do. And then soon thereafter, I had to pick up my son from his first day of his first job. And he's working on a golf course he's in charge of the carts cleaning them and driving them to and from Oh, that's so cool. Where some like, you know, Mom of me, I'm like, Does he even know how to drive the golf cart. Meanwhile, he's like, responsible for driving 30 of them. And anyway, and I got there early, earlier than when he was finished. And I ended up parking and watching him work for, like 30 minutes or so. And it was awesome to see your 16 year old, responsible and capable and working and at the end of be trying to grab him. The guy that was training him came over and told me how awesome he was doing and just a moment of pride, you know, realizing that like both of my children are in good places. And that was just a very, very Nirvana kind of feeling

Amy: 9:16

and love that. Those are great. Yeah.

Debbie: 9:18

Thank you.

Amy: 9:19

So nice. Such good kids such good

Unknown: 9:21

kid. Thanks. It's hard. It is hard,

Katie: 9:24

I'm sure and especially I can't imagine. Yes.

Amy: 9:28

Double hard. Yes. Okay. So Dr. Block, aka Debbie, Deborah, give a quick intro to the audience. I mean, I kind of teed you up, but just a quick soundbite on you know, you and your practice and all of that. Or your background. I would say,

Debbie: 9:46

you know, what you didn't read in the bio was that I really didn't know anything about chiropractic before I went to chiropractic school, which is really unusual. Most chiropractors either like, you know, start out as patients as children or teenagers or they have some accident or trauma and chiropractic change their physical well being. So they enter into the program, I really knew nothing about chiropractic for me, I was, I was going forward to psychology and wanted to go that route. But then realized, in order to do it the way I wanted to do it, it was going to be eight years of schooling after college. And I kind of fell into this chiropractic idea. And it really fit all my boxes, I had very specific criterion for what I was looking for in my career. And this meant all of them. But the physical part of adjusting the spine and, and working with the spine was not really something I was well versed in. So that was a huge learning curve for me. And it was not it didn't come easily, it took me a lot of time to find people that were like minded to me, the chiropractic field is very, very varied. In the type of practitioners you can come across, some are more medically oriented, some are more philosophically oriented. And so you have a large continuum of different types of chiropractors. But I went to chiropractic school, I finished in four years, I stayed in Georgia to practice. And I really seeked out this profession because I knew I wanted to work with people. And I knew I wanted to work in healthcare. But I also knew very clearly that I did not want to work with sickness, I didn't want to work with ill people, I didn't want to work with dying patients. And I didn't want to prescribe drugs. Those things I knew just weren't in my understanding of health. So I was seeking something that gave me an opportunity to be a health care provider that met the met those criteria. And this did, what I didn't take into total account was the level of physicality that my job requires. And that's been harder as I've gotten older, to be honest. But the work itself is unbelievably rewarding and unreal, unbelievably, filling in terms of you know, how I feel at the end of the day after helping people.

Katie: 12:02

Yeah, I was just gonna say it to the point to the physicality of it, you have to be really strong. I mean, you're handling people all to end moving. And I've just recently started seeing chiropractor, we can get into that in a little bit. But yeah, I would imagine, it's, that's not easy. And so that was a surprising learning curve for you.

Debbie: 12:24

Yeah, it was. And you know, honestly, when I went into chiropractic school, I wasn't really as focused on my own health and well being as I needed to be. And I really started working out and getting healthier and watching my nutrition and watching my diet, and trying to focus on on endurance and strength, and all of those things, knowing that my future was going to be demanding physically. And obviously your body kind of you get a rhythm and you learn how to do things more safely, more carefully as time goes on. But Amy had also mentioned earlier, when she was talking about how things are so much more mainstream now, I've been practicing for 21 years. And when I went to chiropractic school, it's really interesting. I think there was like 5%, females, I was LA, I was one of the very, very few women. And I actually one of my boxes that I was looking to are not necessarily looking to fulfill, but it works for me was that I recognized that a female in a space where there weren't many females was bound to be successful. So I knew that, you know, the fact that there weren't many female chiropractors would would bode well for me. And it really has, what I do is intimate, you know, I touch people all day long. And not everybody's okay with that. So having an not to say that male chiropractors aren't, you know, capable of earning patients trust, they are very much so. But I think inherently it's just more of a natural, a natural experience for a female doctor to be able to gain that comfort on that trust with the patient and also read when they need you to, you know, step back or when they're okay to let you in. So that was a really interesting thing. And now chiropractic school is like 5050 females and males, there is no longer a curve like that. So it's really in my 21 years of practicing, not only have we come far in terms of females in the profession, but we've also come very far in terms of respect in the profession.

Amy: 14:23

Yeah, I love that. I never actually thought about that before. So taking a step back just to for people who are listening who have never seen a chiropractor. Why should people see when like, what are the benefits and what can people expect when they go to do it? Because I mean, for me, I've done a lot of holistic treatments. I've done acupuncture, I've done a million things, but I was always so nervous. And even though, you know, for those listening, Debbie has been my best friend for 25 years plus 30 years. So I didn't even want Debbie to do it until recently because I was so freaked out it was like in my own head. But why should people see wine like if you can give us sort of the The DL on that? Sure.

Debbie: 15:02

So honestly, chiropractic care is really good for anybody with a spine, which is everyone. I mean, even honestly, animals receive chiropractic care. And I'm an animal lover and would have even gone into animal care. There's actually a huge field of it with racehorses. My veterinarian has my veterinary office has a a veterinarian that specializes in spinal spinal adjustments for animals. So it really is something that anything anyone with a spine can benefit from. But the reality is that the life that we live now and 2022 is so demanding on our lives physically, chemically, emotionally, that all of those stressors, physical, chemical, and emotional, all create issues and potential misalignments within the spine, the spine is made up of 24 vertebra, they all have the ability of the vertebra to move and shift. And when we are either experiencing the physical trauma, a car accident, a slip and fall, a broken bone that then requires us to walk on crutches or in a shoot, you know, if there's genetic history of spinal conditions, dowagers hum forward flexion of the spine. I mean, there's like a whole list of things that can create issues for someone. But what I've seen more than anything, is ergonomics. Right. So in the last few years, I've seen more of this than I have ever seen in my career. And honestly, in the last few years, I've worked harder physically than I ever have. Because people are a mess right now. I think working from home was such a tremendous change for people physically and emotionally that it just wreaked havoc on everyone. Whether it was the stress of managing your children who are doing virtual school in the room next to you while you're trying to work on your laptop at home. I mean, I had patients working, you know, on their laptops, in their beds, on their couches in their, on their dining room tables. And just the simple act of spending five to eight hours a day on your computer at home, to have screwed up people so royally the chairs wrong, in even just a laptop, which I would say probably 90% of people now use laptops and not desktops, a laptop was made for travel, it was never created for people to work on a laptop at home, there's no way to type on the keyboard, have your laptop and look in the screen and have it well aligned for your arms and your wrists and your neck and your head. It's just not configured that way. So I can't tell you how many times I've told people, okay, you need to put your laptop up onto a stand, and you need to get a portable keyboard and you need a portable mouse. Because there's no way you can be ergonomically correct for your head, and your neck and your arms on a laptop. So just that one iota, then we've got cell phones, then we've got you know, anything that pulls you forward and keeps you there for a prolonged period of time. And even my new moms who are breastfeeding and changing diapers, all of these activities, people whose whose stitch or who do you know projects in their lap, all of these things pull you forward and hold you there. And if you do them regularly, then those are habitual, poor body postures that are going to eventually translate to spinal issues and or spinal pain. We see young children, teenagers, adults, geriatric. So I really see the gamut of what your spine looks like when you're young versus what it looks like as you age. And if you have had traumas, if you've had a lot of emotional stress in your life, if you've had poor poor posture, if you're an athlete, and you've gotten, you know, a bunch of injuries, while playing sports, all of these things are going to translate, you may not have any issues in your 20s or 30s. But by 40s, and 50s, those those things start to catch up with you. And in my opinion, it's much better to go and see a chiropractor as early on in life as possible, so that you can start that foundation of spinal alignment early. You don't need to have a lot of care when you don't have a lot of issues. And you want to create a space where your body kind of learns how to have what I call maintenance treatments that allow your spine to know how to maintain alignment and maintain movement and motion so that you don't end up as a 45 year old or a 50 year old who has significant degeneration and significant restriction and significant discomfort. It's interesting

Amy: 19:27

really, the idea is you want to be proactive, like a like many things versus going in when there's a problem because then it's almost too late or you

Debbie: 19:36

read dental cleaning, right? Like we don't wait until our teeth are falling out to go and get a cleaning. We go every six months to make sure our teeth are okay. And when they say they're okay, we go okay, great. And then we'll be back in six months. So it's kind of a similar mentality. Like you should be getting your spine checked. And depending on how much you're doing in your life, it may equate that you need it more frequently or less frequently, depending on what's going on in your world.

Katie: 19:59

Yeah, As you're saying all of this, it's reminding me of the three times in my life that I have sought out a chiropractor to help with what was going on. And they were all for three very different reasons like the most reason why I'm having hip pain. And it just occurred to me as you're speaking to me. The last year, I started working doing this, and I'm sitting at a dusk and on a keyboard way more than I have in the last decade. So maybe that's part of it. Before that it was sciatica from pregnancy. Before that, when I was a fit model, I was told it was from these, like, micro micro movements that I did over and over and over and over and over again, from when I was working, I would always turn my head this way. And, you know, it's like these little teeny things over time, can cause the problem. I just find it interesting, because I think people often think it's like, it's a trauma thing. I was just in a car accident, so I need to be adjusted for that purpose. And and the other thing is, I find interesting is that it's also very much related to the central nervous system. Right is, and that's typically the pain is stemming from, it's not, and please correct me where I'm wrong. But it's not just the things are out of line, but it's because of where your central nervous system is in relation to everything. Is that right?

Debbie: 21:12

Yeah, I love that you brought that up. Because sometimes that's like a little bit of a deeper conversation that I don't always go into right off the bat, your central nervous system is directly connected to your spine. So the brain and spinal cord are the first two things to form when you're conceived. And then the third thing that forms is the skull to protect the brain. And the fourth thing that forms is the spinal column to protect the spinal cord. So every single nerve that is coming off of their nervous system from the brain has to exit in between spinal vertebra. So if you have chronically misaligned vertebra, one, two, or five, and it's constantly putting pressure on the nerve that is exiting adjacent to it, you are going to eventually have issues in organs and or areas of your function that you may not have any idea has anything to do with your spine. But I have patients who come into me for neck pain. And you know, four weeks later, or three weeks later, they'll say to me, like, you know, I always have seasonal allergies right now, but for the first time ever, I don't Wow. You know, or I'm an asthmatic, and I usually have terrible asthma. I didn't even tell you about my asthma. But I haven't had one asthma attack since I've been seeing you and I normally have to a week. Wow. It's all the time. And it's not because I'm treating the asthma or treating the allergies. I'm treating the spine. But by clearing the interference for the nerve that's feeding the lung tissue or for the nerves that are feeding the stomach, people's gastrointestinal symptoms can improve. I even have and this always kind of blows my mind. I've had a handful of young kids come in to me parents who kind of like hear about chiropractic. And usually it's like a mom who's desperate because she can't potty train her, her her usually it's a boy having trouble getting their young child to go number two, and sometimes frequently actually chiropractic treatment to the spine in the area that feeds the intestines. And the stomach can help a young child to have a bowel movement without pain and without issue and allow them to have a bowel movement in the toilet instead of in a in a diaper. Wow. And the days when the moms like we barely made it home.

Amy: 23:25

Wow.

Debbie: 23:26

So I mean, even something as simple as bowel movements, like every single function that's doctrinaire by the nervous system has an has an impact by where the spine is, if the spine is in the wrong place, especially after years of it, it can create an issue within that within that part of the body.

Amy: 23:45

Yeah, one of the things, one of the big things so and Katie, we're going to do an episode on this soon in the future with my vestibular migraines, but that the spine is was I believe, a big part or a part of me getting these vestibular migraines because when I went to see, Debbie recently, my Atlas was out, which I didn't know. And that had happened years ago. So when I went to see another doctor, he was like, Oh, your head is literally not screwed onto your body. Right? I was like, What do you mean? And he's like your Atlas is out. You need to get it fixed. So my Atlas always comes out which Debbie can explain what the Atlas is, but it's probably common, I don't know. But that is that contributes to my headaches. So if you want to talk about that a little bit, Debbie, because I think first cervical

Debbie: 24:30

vertebra, it sits right underneath the skull. The skull has a the bottom portion of the skull is called the occiput. And the occiput is a U shaped bone. It kind of sits like this. And the occiput itself can kind of rock up or down, you know, left or right. And then the Atlas has a bone that sits right underneath it. And it's the most powerful vertebra in the whole spine. And actually, I use this example with patients frequently because it's really helpful. You guys remember Christopher Reeve about as Superman, he fell off a horse in his 40s, I want to say and he broke his second cervical vertebra. And he lost function in like 90% of his body, every single function, every single function within his body that was from C to below was no longer able to happen in his body because he had fractured his second cervical vertebra. But he could still see, he could smell he could hear he could move his head a little bit. And I don't know if he I think he could talk. And those functions were from C one and above. Wow, interesting. So the fact that he fractured that C two vertebra stopped the ability for the rest of his nervous system to function from C to below. And, you know, he, just to give him a quick nod, he had a lot to do with raising money for spinal cord research. He used his celebrity in the time that he survived, which was much longer than most spinal cord injured patients, and raised millions of dollars. So you know, this research continues. But yes, I mean, that's the reason for I mean, the whole don't, you know, breaking your neck is something that really equates to the potential for paralysis, because of the importance of the nervous system. So, so c one is a very important vertebra. It's, it's kind of the, you know, like the number one most important vertebra in the spine to make sure it's properly aligned. And what we find is when the occiput or the first cervical vertebra is misaligned, I almost always have headache patients headaches, are probably one of the most common things that walk in my office, migraines and headaches. And that relationship between the occiput and the SIR, first cervical vertebra are the very first thing that I check as well, as am I heard you talk about this jaw, that tension is also directly connected. So your TMJ or temporomandibular joint is directly connected to your first cervical vertebra and your occipital connection. And so those three vertebra are really not this isn't a vertebra. But those three joints are really important to make sure that they're properly aligned.

Amy: 27:01

Yeah, and I think so many people are like, grinding their teeth and their shoulders are up and their stress and it plays out in your neck and in your face. And so I think that makes sense why a lot of people are coming in like that. I really think

Debbie: 27:13

people with emotional issues who have issues because you know, sad, angry, you know, you hold yourself in a certain way. And that translates to what's going on physically, especially after a certain amount of time maintaining that like physical positioning,

Katie: 27:28

I have a question, how many of your patients that have come to you with these headaches and things? Have you found that they've been searching for an answer? You know, they've been there? It's like, they've tried all these other avenues? And then someone says, Have you seen a chiropractor yet? Have you gone into? Have you tried chiropractic? Does that happen often? Is it kind of a surprise to people,

Debbie: 27:49

actually, because it's not usually something that they think about, you know, and it's funny, because I've actually, over the years gotten, I have a whole bunch of dentists that refer to me now, because I've educated dentists that don't fit your patient for a mouth guard until you send them to me, let me check their jaw, and make sure their jaws where it needs to be and then fit them for a night guard to help stop the clenching. Otherwise, you're putting them in a night guard in the wrong position, potentially. And then you're encouraging this, you know, abnormal alignment. But yeah, headache. Patients are often surprised. It's not something that medical doctors are recommending, you know, getting dentists recommended has been a little bit of a, you know, an improvement. I do have neurologists that refer to me, but that's a tough sell, getting a neurologist to recognize that connection. I do have a handful that will send to me happily because their answer to me is, you know, a whole bunch of trial and error very invasive. Sometimes that's what's needed. You know, that actually, nowadays they have they've got less invasive options for headache patients. But yeah, if I can correct a headache with my hands, or if I can help a migraine patient who's suffering by just aligning the upper cervical spine, it's so much easier.

Katie: 29:03

Yeah, I have a friend that has had migraines her whole life, and I'm not sure if she's ever tried gone this route, and I'm sure she probably has, she definitely should have it. Yeah, that's definitely Shutts interesting. That's very interesting. The hormonal

Debbie: 29:15

case for women is also another big part of it for headaches and migraines. And that's something that I'm you know, starting to really work on it understanding and exploring and researching as I'm getting into the, you know, older years and the menopausal years and seeing how hormone depletion and hormone changes can really impact that as well. So I'm starting to really dive into understanding that connection, because for women, that's a big piece too.

Katie: 29:39

I have a question on the hormonal piece, and I'm not sure if it's related, maybe, you know, maybe you don't, um, I have recently started having a lot of hip pain and I know I went you know, I saw the chiropractor and she told me and we did X rays and everything but sometimes I feel like it is worse with my cycle can things like that fluctuate with your hormones as well? Do you know?

Debbie: 29:58

Definitely yeah. Funnily, I actually had a really interesting case recently that as you say that it kind of came to mind and I don't want to scare you in any way. But yeah, I had a patient who was having symptoms like that, and we ended up finding after me pushing and her OBGYN kind of excusing or dismissing her symptoms, and, you know, telling her, you know, take Advil and, and take, you know, could just take over the counter anti inflammatories that we sent her for an ultrasound, and she ended up having a huge cyst, ovary. So yeah, I mean, physical discomfort is a message from the body. It's an alarm, and it's telling you how there's nothing wrong. It's important pain is not always a terrible thing, because pain is a message. It's communication. And it's something that it's giving you feedback, you know, people often don't walk into my office until it's like a blaring alarm. And at that point, it's more difficult for me to help them and get them out of pain. Usually I will. But it's much better if you can start listening at an earlier stage and responding before it gets to that level of, you know, I'm now compromised functionally and I don't want to accept that.

Katie: 31:07

We hope you enjoyed part one with Dr. Deborah Block. Stay tuned for next week, part two, where we talk about why new moms especially need chiropractic care, tips and tools for things we can do at home. Plus, how frequently you should be seeing your chiropractor and what the whole experience is going to be like what to expect, so stay tuned for next week's

Amy: 31:30

thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.

Episode 50 - The 101 On Psychedelic Therapy With Julia Mirer M.D. (Full Transcript)

This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 50 The 101 On Psychedelic Therapy With Julia Mirer M.D.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome back to the show Nirvana sisters. Today we are tackling a super interesting topic that Amy and I are really curious about. And it's been a big buzz lately and our fantastic guest is going to enlighten us on it. So, our guest today is Dr. Julia mirror. She's a consultant in the emerging field of psychedelic medicine. She serves as a bridge between eastern and western practices is committed to merging them to help create a new paradigm for Integrative Health and Wellness which sounds so interesting. She was on the road to a career in pediatrics, but seeing the pitfalls of the current healthcare system decided to shift gears to explore transformative medicine, where she found her calling and advocacy and education. Julia's passion lies in education and advocacy for the responsible use of these medicines. Dr. Mayer believes that a successful future for this field depends on the interplay between policy research in clinics and is therefore positioned herself to play a role in each nationally. Dr. Mira is an advisor for the plant medicine coalition lobbying the NIH for $100 million for psychedelic research in Florida. She works in psychedelic clinical research at Segal trials. As a facilitator for us Oh, and AES phase two trial using psilocybin, I always have a hard time saying that word for major nail depression. Now that most recently Dr. Mayer joined New Shama as Director of Strategy, where she hopes to combine all of her experience to create the vision of a new kind of health care system and facilitate new Shammas goal of humanizing medicine. And I can't wait to get into what you guys are doing in your shop. It's very interesting. So welcome to the show, Julia.

Julia Mirer M.D: 2:19

Thank you. Thank you for having me on. Yeah. Welcome.

Katie: 2:22

We're so excited. So why don't we kick it off? Julia, we always start with a little highlight of your week. We call it our nirvana of the week. Maybe something that brought you joy today or yesterday, little thing can be big or small. I'll let Amy get us rolling.

Amy: 2:36

Yeah. So I had to think about this one today. Because this week has just been really, really busy with so many things happening at work and with the podcasts, etc. And it's also been rainy all week. So it's just kind of like, I know, Julie, you're in Miami, so you probably haven't had as much rain as we've had up here. Or maybe you have because I heard the weather has been a little bit crazy. But it's literally been raining every single day and gray. So today is the first day that it's sunny and like perfect, crisp weather. So I walked outside this morning, and I just like took a breath. And I was like, Oh, like that feeling of just that good, crisp air. So that was my little nirvana of the day. What about you, Katie?

Katie: 3:14

That's nice. I like that. Mine is alright. I've been racking my brain all week trying to figure out what it's going to be because my Nirvana really this week is kind of

Amy: 3:22

sad that we have to be like, wait, what what brought me joy this week. Let me yell it back was

Katie: 3:26

one of those weeks, but honestly, what brought me joy. It's like it could get really deep and heavy. So I'm just going to scratch the surface and maybe one of these days we'll get into it, but I've had some hormonal imbalances and I got them ballet. It's

Amy: 3:43

huge for me staying need to hear more I can get into the sounds like in another time.

Katie: 3:47

But But yeah, I figured out what the problem was and tweaked some of my medication and have been feeling great. Like the best I thought in so long. So. So yeah, that was a super super Nirvana moment. What about you, Julia,

Julia Mirer M.D: 3:59

my Nirvana moment. So I with crypto week, this week, there's been a lot of people that are flying in because they're they're adjacently involved or whatnot. So it was really cool. There was a moment yesterday when, like five of my closest friends were all together with me for the first time like some of them are meeting for the first time. And just that moment when I was like surrounded by people who are just, you know, like family like the chosen family. It was really, really minor random moment. Oh, I love that.

Katie: 4:33

That sounds so good. We all need stuff like that right from time to time for sure. That's great. Well, good for you. Alright, well, let's dive into it. Because there's so much digging into here. Essentially, we are diving into the use of psychedelics as therapeutic medicine. And Julia, tell us what do you do as a consultant in this emerging field and how did you get into it?

Julia Mirer M.D: 4:59

So Oh, I'll go in reverse. So how I got into it was completely by accident. I was, I was in New York, I was in my pediatric residency because I always wanted to be a doctor. So I'm finally you know, in it. And towards the end of my second year, I realized that I'm not buying what I'm selling. So I resigned from a career in medicine, I joke that I left medicine to pursue a life of healing. And I moved to Miami and kind of like restarted from scratch. And I initially, you know, quarterlife crisis. I very accidentally discovered psychedelics, and very intentionally proceeded to study them. So when I first tried them, I realized, wait a second, there's something really medicinal here. This is not a drug. This is medicine. And I, when I started looking online at all the research, I was like, Oh, my goodness, like, we're not talking about this, but there's research happening everywhere. So with my medical background, and you know, my field research, if you will, I realized that there's an opportunity to bring both of these together and actually get involved in this emerging space early on, because I just started seeing how like, everything was starting to the discussion was starting. And for me, when I, when I first experienced this, I was like, Oh, this is the thing that's going to save the world, you know, like the evangelism and all that that some people experience. But then when I looked at it more critically, I realized, like, no, but this is an opportunity for us to shift things, this isn't going to change things on its own. This is something that if we can roll this out in a good way, it's really going to make a difference. So for me, I, you know, having seen the way that the Western model works, I kind of started to talk to the people to the right, people who were doctors in the space scientists in the space. And over time, the way that I got involved in this consulting stuff was because I saw that there's several different areas that are moving this industry forward. There's psychedelic research that's coming, there's clinics that are opening, there's policy that is changing. And so in my consulting work, I kind of do a little bit of everything for all those different organizations.

Katie: 7:30

It's interesting that you're able to kind of break your way into this emergent, and I would imagine somewhat like hush hush. And under the radar field, like you said, it was you had to find the right people, how did you how did those doors open?

Julia Mirer M.D: 7:45

So, you know, in 2020, everybody was on a webinar. And you know, I have a medical degree that gets my foot into doors that it doesn't necessarily belong in. So when I would watch a webinar, a panel conference, I would reach out to everyone who I resonated with everyone that was saying something that I really believed in, I would call them and I find out more. And I would ask the experts in this field, like, you know, what do you think this industry needs? Where do you think it's going? What are the like, what are the blind spots from your perspective, and every time that I would talk to someone, I would realize, Wait, there's a connection here. So if I can bring these two people together, they might actually move forward faster. And so when I first started, it was really just out of my own curiosity. And I love people. So I was getting to talk to people that were like my version of celebrities, which to me was like, very cool. It's like, I read this book, and then Oh, my goodness, yeah, you're talking to them on Facebook. This is so incredible. Yeah.

Amy: 8:49

So to back up for a second for our listeners, can you give us a one on one on like, what is psychedelic therapy? And what are the various types of psychedelics use just to kind of educate and set a baseline for everyone?

Julia Mirer M.D: 9:02

Absolutely. So there's the classical psychedelics, which are, you know, LSD, magic mushrooms, which psilocybin is the active ingredient. We have mescaline. Those are Ayahuasca those are the traditional, we call the five HTT to a receptor agonists, which means they work on the certain serotonin receptor, the other psychedelics that are discussed in the context of the clinical research going on, and existing clinical practice that includes MDMA, which is, you know, ecstasy or Molly, and ketamine, which is an anesthetic, which is already legal, and I'll go into that a little bit as well. So, when, back in this, like before the controlled substance act in like 1971, these medicines were being studied in the clinical setting in Harvard, like psychiatry, they were looking at this for a lot of different indications and And so that research has been happening, like it was already happening. And then the psychedelics came into the mainstream, you know, they came, it was kind of a cat was out of the bag, and it was being used recreationally. And then that's when they stopped, they created these laws, and then they stopped research essentially for many decades. And so the classic psychedelics work a little bit differently. Currently, ketamine is that people will sometimes say it's like the only legal psychedelic. And it's important to separate the groups because ketamine is actually a dissociative anesthetic that has psychedelic properties, while the other ones are actually, you know, the classic psychedelic when we think of it, and ketamine was synthesized in the 1960s, it was used on veterans for acute pain eventually became used for chronic pain, and pediatric populations, we'd love to use this in the emergency room instead of sedating them, because it has less effect on their respiration. So it's less of an invasive procedure, we don't have to put a tube down. And in 2019, the FDA granted breakthrough therapy designation to ketamine, for use in mental health conditions. So PTSD, depression, suicidality, it's very, very good for that. And so in the last few years, what's happened is that we've been able to start prescribing this, like clinicians are able to prescribe this to their patients in many different ways. And they've been having incredible results. With the MDMA, it's currently finishing phase three clinical trials are just finished phase three, and they are expecting to have MDMA legal like by 2023, for PTSD. And this is in the context of a lot of therapy. And the idea here, it's a heart opener, it allows you to recall the events of your trauma without the emotional link the visceral response to it like sometimes through people, it's very difficult to remember trauma. And so this creates a safe space to remember it. The other psychedelics that are currently being studied, this is actually one of the projects that I'm working on. It is the usoda study using psilocybin for major depression. So there, we use a synthetic form of it. So it's not that it's the magic in the mushrooms, but it's only a synthetic form. And we watch patients while like me and my colleagues, we sit there with the patients while they're getting this dose. And here, it's placebo controlled, but if they do get the dose, it's a very high dose. And it's really like the typical high, like, ego dissolution kind of experience. And I can talk more about that, like a little bit later and how that works. I'm curious, I just

Amy: 13:01

wait somebody. Just really quickly. Just psychedelics more so treat mental health issues and challenges? Or can it also help with other chronic diseases?

Julia Mirer M.D: 13:14

So great question. Right now, we're kind of it, it's an interesting moment in research, because we're used to having a hypothesis about a drug, and then testing the effects. Since the psychedelics have been around for so long, we actually know it's already, like, we pretty much know that it's safer than most drugs that are out there. We know that it works. And now we're reverse engineering these studies to be like, Okay, let's like start from the beginning. And we're doing very, not I don't want to say simple, but like, you know, single condition, very common condition, and we're seeing how it works there. I think the future is going to start looking at a lot of different things. And one of one of the things that with psychedelics is it's also an anti inflammatory, that the classic psychedelic, so that can help with pain. Ketamine does help with pain. One of the, as I said, it was initially used for chronic pain. So that is still a condition that it is effective for. But we are going to be looking at it for dementia, we're going to be looking at for PMS, like this is all it's alcohol for alcohol use disorders, the next study that we're going to be I believe, that we're going to be doing so it's, I think that there's going to be an opportunity to really expand on the different conditions that could be used for another one is eating disorders. You know, there's anecdotal evidence where people who tend to misuse food, like as a coping skill, a coping mechanism, they are able to kind of change their relationships. to food. And so they ended up eating less people who suffer from anorexia. They changed their relationship to themselves, thereby changing their relationship to the food. And they end up also change, like shifting out of their behavior patterns. So there's going to be so many things we don't know at all yet, like on paper. But if we ask the traditions that have been sitting with these medicines for, like millennia, I think they, they would say that they treat many things and especially like, elements of the spirit.

Katie: 15:35

Yeah, that's a really good way of putting it. But my question, help us understand how so ketamine is being used, like you said, in hospitals, essentially, as an anesthetic? How is the administration of ketamine for these intensive purposes different than in the hospital that it achieves a different effect.

Julia Mirer M.D: 15:59

So the ketamine that we use in the hospital is for sedation is a much higher dose. And this ketamine is sub anesthetic, meaning you don't get you know, you don't get put out. But you have that psychedelic experience. And then within this use, there's a number of different ways to deliver it, there's a number of different effects. So the there's three ways that are currently being used. So in the clinic, and this is what we do at New Shama, we have IV infusions, and this is 100%. bioavailable, meaning however much you put in is how much is going to be in your bloodstream. So this allows us to fine tune the dose and be able to, if the person is having a really tough experience, you actually can turn off that IV. And the experience stops shortly thereafter, which can be good for anyone who has any issues with blood pressure, because you can also give the medication for blood pressure, high blood pressure. And it will also I guess, serve to, you know, be feel a little bit more comfortable for people who aren't sure how they're going to react to this high dose, the other. And then this is a psychedelic dose. So there's psychedelic assisted therapy. And then there's psychoanalytic therapy that can be done. Or rather, psychedelic therapy and psycholytic. Psychedelic therapy is looking at the experience, like the psychedelic experience, as a mainstay of that session. psycholytic therapy uses a lower dose, and it could be IV, it could be intramuscular, it could be oral dose, but it uses a lower dose to do talk therapy during, and there's value to both. And this is going to be a very different kind of medicine just because the degree of personalization that is possible. And kind of necessary in order for people to really get the most out of this. And the other route of administration is intramuscular. So here, you know it, you're not able to just turn it off. So you kind of committed to the hour, hour and a half that you're going to be there. But this is also very beneficial when you want to do group therapy with ketamine. And this is something that we are expanding now at New Shama. And I'll dive into that a little bit as well. And then the third option, which is the oral dosing, so they said, like, there are companies that you can get an online consultation, this is a much cheaper option. But you're not in the clinic, you're getting this medicine sent to your home, and you it's not the tastiest, but you essentially are the depending on the dose that you have, you can again have a different effect. So for some people who have OCD, one of the doctors that I know, when they work with patients, they'll go for a much lower dose, because it's slightly higher dose may give them a little bit too much discomfort and the anxiety increases, and then their OCD gets worse. So there's different ways to use that as well. The issue with the fact that it's FDA, the FDA granted this breakthrough therapy designation, they're not actually able to regulate the delivery yet of the of these medicines. So they don't, they don't they don't regulate off label use. So there's currently a it's kind of like a, there's a gray zone. And we know that most doctors want to do the best. We also know that there are some people who take advantage of these gray zones, and there are places that are sending ketamine to the home. Very little kind of exploration of what the patient's past medical history is. If they have a safe place to do this medicine if they have a safe person to talk to or have they're. So those kinds of companies are the ones to be aware of. And like you realize that there's the there's like the good, the bad and the ugly. So this is the ugly part of it. And one of the things that we do in the Shama is really educate people and try to get people to understand that of all the psychedelics, ketamine is the only one that might be addictive. But if you think about it a little bit simpler, it's like morphine is addictive. But if we need it, we're still going to use it, we're going to use this in the right set and setting and it's not going to become a problem. But when you start sending it to the home, you send people homeless biking and a purpose, and then that's when the risk for dependency, and then addiction can come. Same thing is going to be with ketamine. We know if you educate the patients, then the the results are incredible. But it's really a matter of informing people and letting them know what the potential risks are, and being there for them as a support, if they feel like there's a problem.

Katie: 20:53

It's essentially like any man, it's gonna send them in that respect that you can take it home, and you can do what you will with it. And so that's kind of scary, because it's, there's no way of regulating that. But that's not new to ketamine, per se. So for people to be afraid for that reason, you know, that's why it's important to find people such as yourself, and new Shama, if you're interested in it to go about doing it, do it the right way. And we'll get into that and a little bit what all of that looks like, yeah,

Amy: 21:22

I was just gonna say for most people that are doing it typically under like doing it with a doctor or under evaluation, so it feels more safe. They're not administering it themself. And then also, is the treatment, I guess it depends on what you're treating for. But is it like you do it one time? And that's it? Or you do it over time? Or does it kind of depend on what you're treating?

Julia Mirer M.D: 21:42

So it's, so there's different ways of thinking about it. So there's a lot of research about these, you know, twice a week doses for three weeks. And because the evidence shows like, there's evidence for that working, a lot of times people just adopt that. And one of the things that we look at at New Shama is like, well, we don't know, 100%, what's right for every person. So it's up to us to actually check in with the people and see like, how are you doing? Are you ready for your next dose? Or do you want another week or so to integrate? So there's many different ways for some people, you know, they come in, they are at their wit's end, and they have this one dose, and all of a sudden, like, they're just, they reboot. And with this, you know, sudden relief from their symptoms, they do all these things in after their session, to bring joy back into their life, they start seeing their friends, again, they start gardening, they start doing the things that used to bring them joy that they haven't been able to do since their depression or anxiety kicks in. And now they just kind of run with it. So some people may only need this, you know, once some people may need it several, you know, several sessions in a row. This is an added thinking, particularly with IV dosing. With intramuscular, it's, you know, there's, there's something to be said about the fact that we, when we're under a psychedelic experience, like after a psychedelic experience, we have what we call neuroplasticity, like our mind is a little bit more malleable. And we're able to see things a little bit differently. So it's up to us to really like monopolize on that moment, and do all these different things. It depending on how long you've been, you know, in your story about whatever, you know, depression, anxiety, or whatever, you kind of whatever's become your default functioning. If that's really ingrained, maybe you do need this twice a week, for like a few weeks, just to start practicing thinking differently. The effects of ketamine within the first like 36 to 48 hours, that's your golden window, that's a lot of times, I would suggest that they follow up with a therapist that they already have, or with an integration person that we're able to offer. Because that's when you can really dig into some stuff and rewire some of those bias beliefs. And for the most part, like about seven to 10 days later, most people experience the return of some kind of symptoms, a lot of times it's less than tense. A lot of times it's like to the point that it's manageable, and they may come back in for a booster maybe in three months or so. But they also start being able to maybe lower their doses of medication, like change, change whatever the things were that were causing them anxiety, depression. So there's, yeah, it's hard for me to say that there's any kind of one way to do it. I think if we start thinking about this in terms of protocols, we're going to really miss an opportunity for some personalized medicine. Right?

Katie: 24:54

The people that are like who is this right for right? Obviously, anyone that is dealing with depression and anxiety? Is it? Is it right for people that are resistant to traditional depression? Medication Therapy? Is it? Like who is it? Because I know, you know, this. We've also heard like, it's trendy for the super wealthy banker to come in and wants to have this experience. And so he you know, it's like, that's one thing, right? That's, that's whatever, but who who are all of your research and all of your work? Who is it really targeted for?

Julia Mirer M.D: 25:34

So it does. So ketamine removes suicidal thoughts within 45 minutes. Wow. Wow. So I actually think that the future of ketamine once the other psychedelics come online and are able to be used in a clinical setting, ketamine, sweetspot, is going to be in the emergency room, in the ambulance in any setting where you get that person in their moment of like, despair. And then you have seven to 10 days to figure out what got you here? Is it your addiction? Here's an Ibogaine clinic. Is it your couples problems, here's MDMA couples counseling, traumas coming up here, psilocybin and your trauma coach or trauma therapist. So I think that that's where it's going to go. Right now, treatment resistant depression is one of the conditions that has been that is being used for major depression, anxiety, like I said, eating disorders. But the thing is that this medicine on its own is only so effective, it's really what you like, I always say that 80% of a psychedelic experience is what happens before and what happens after, it's the preparation that you do beforehand, and the application of the insights that you have the you, like, actively take part in, that really create the healing. So I think in the future, we'll be able to see how like different psychedelics work better for different conditions. At this point, we're using ketamine, for most of them, I'll say the ones that it's not, right for right now is any schizophrenia is but like, you know, either you, yourself or psychosis, or in a first degree relative. And then with bipolar, it can be tricky. So really good therapists who are able to spend the time with their patients, and monitor them closely, are able to offer the ketamine for their depressive, like depressive periods, and then they keep up with them. And they're able to make sure that they don't slip into a manic episode. And so that's a very delicate thing. So a lot of places will kind of steer clear of it, just because they may not be able to fully support that. And then in terms of the comments on, you know, the corporate wellness, yeah, the yes, people can come in, and especially right now, where they're doing this for some kind of a spiritual reason. You know, for people that want to have more performance, like improve their performance and all of that. I sometimes caution people, because sometimes we have traumas that are lurking below the surface that we're not aware of. And at times, you know, there, there can be a case where someone in the super successful, who has been working, since they were 19 years old, non stop, they may come in for, you know, two for increased performance, or whatever it is, but then they might remember a trauma that happened at 18, that put them on this path of making work, they're kind of like, if I just keep working, then everything is gonna be okay. So I always caution people where it's like, you know, there may be something that comes up that you're not comfortable with. And if that happens that, you know, make sure you have someone to talk to, to someone in that position, they may not even have the words to describe what comes up. So the last thing I want to happen is for someone to come in to be better at work, and then be crippled by a memory that they're not ready to kind of address or unable to address now that it came up.

Katie: 29:12

So the spiritual journey isn't necessarily turned away. It's just you're you're very cautious with that person and making sure that they know what they're getting into and doing it for the right reasons. Yeah,

Amy: 29:24

that's interesting. It reminds me I was just looking this up. Have you all seen Julia specifically this show that was on Netflix nine perfect strangers? Have you seen a calf?

Katie: 29:36

Yeah. I don't know if Julia would want us to talk about that or not.

Amy: 29:41

I know I made up and silly or do you think it was interesting? Or do you think it brought anything to the forefront? Like what are your thoughts on it?

Julia Mirer M.D: 29:49

So the general psychedelic community was like, What is this right? That's because like, we know we don't dose people without letting them No, like, not a thing that we do. And then you know, some of this, like the exposure therapy and like the, like locking them in a thing. Not right. Oh, like that. But that being said it definitely we can't people are people. So the same way that there are awful people in like corporate America that you know, violate human humans, you're gonna see this everywhere. So it is important to have the discussion of what should your shaman you know, or your facilitator, your guide? What should they be asking you? What should they be revealing to you about the process? So, one of the there's like a lot of conversation about women, particularly, who get sexually, like, taken advantage of under the influence of these medicines, they get, you know, you can be men and women, but there's manipulation, there's all this transference with these people. And that's devastating, because you're already vulnerable, going into this thing, experience that's making you even more vulnerable. And then someone takes advantage of this. And then how do you reconcile that later? It's very difficult to police all the bad players, but it's going to, I think, be easier to educate the consumer, you know, get influencers to start talking about, here's the questions that your facilitator should ask you, if they're not asking you about your medication, good run, there's no follow up. Like if it's just you come from the experience, there's no discussion about how you're going to be, you know, called, you know, week later or the next day, and then options for integration throughout. Like, that's not, that's not where you want to go. Like, if they're trying to upsell you on things, or like, it's just weird. Yeah,

Amy: 31:59

trust is just such an important piece. Obviously, for any one you're, you know, working within the medicine field, but specifically this because to your point, it could go really wrong if you're not careful. It also reminds it also, I wanted to ask you about that I got introduced to this field or topic. I mean, I don't know, obviously anything about it. But there was I wanted to get your opinion on this, too. There was a documentary from goop labs on Netflix, I believe, that did an episode on group therapy setting. And I think it was ketamine. And I watched the experience. And it was interesting. Have you seen that? And what were your thoughts on that program?

Julia Mirer M.D: 32:40

So I haven't seen the one on group? Was there anything in particular that stood out to you that I can comment on?

Amy: 32:47

No, it was just, it was interesting. They they took the goop people that did this show this documentary, every episode was like a different sort of experimental type of whether it was medicine or theory or whatever. So they took like a group of maybe eight to 10 people down to Costa Rica and did it it was it was sort of group therapy, but they each had their own person guiding them through the process. And it was like a 24 hour experience. So they each have their own individual experiences, but as a group, and some people freaked out to your point of like, remembering things that they didn't remember. And some people it was like life changing for so no real comment there. Just I mean, maybe for our listeners, it's like an educational piece, I would say. But I also wanted to ask you Are there things that our listeners could read or watch that you actually think are really good pieces of content that to get educated to understand a bar?

Julia Mirer M.D: 33:41

I can share, I'll think of something and I'll share with you guys put it in the notes. Off the top of my head, the one that comes to mind is fantastic fungi, which is on Netflix, it's a documentary about mushrooms. beautiful cinematography, yeah, yes. Yeah, so that's a good one. And it's a good one for all ages, like, you know, it's got beautiful imagery for kids. But it really hits home for adults, like they go into not only the way that mushrooms are helping us from like a biological kind of the Earth, but also the effects that it has on us. And then the potential effects that it might have on cognition as we age, which is a sensitive subject for a lot of people as we start seeing, you know, rising rates of dementia and cognitive decline. So that's one that I would think of in terms of the group sessions like the way you describe this one on one. That is that probably was very beneficial for the people who were having a tough experience. Because sometimes what happens when you have these group sessions, it's like, you know, one facilitator, one, they call them sometimes angels, helpers, one person to like two or three And sometimes it's a much bigger ratio. And the question becomes, are you like, are you going to be able to support people if they're going through this tough time? And are you going to be able to do it in a way that doesn't disrupt everyone else that's there. And kind of. And that's, that's tough. So for us at New Shama, so we're working on doing group cohorts. And the idea here is that it's not just people that come in together, and they do a dose together, because we really don't know what's going to come up. And then we don't know how people are going to feel sometimes, you know, if they're having this really emotional feeling, depending on their level of awareness of what's going on, there might be guilt, like you feel bad that you're causing disturbance to the others. There might be fear of judgment, there might be fear, that just like any kind of hero is going to take this experience. And then you think about the people who are having a good experience, maybe now they're taken out of theirs, because they're worried about the person, like so, in order to kind of help with that, what we're creating is cohorts. So they're together for six weeks, the first week, there's no medicine involved, we are just getting together, we are framing the experience for them. They're getting to know each other. And then every week, we have a different topic, where we all get to talk about, you know, how do you relate to your mind? How do you relate to your body? How do you relate to your spirit, and so on and so forth over a six week period. And what we hope to see is that the container of a group is healing in and of itself, like we heal in community. And we've had over two years of kind of like, a very fragmented sense of community. And for some people, they're struggling to reconnect, they're not like, it's like a muscle memory that the muscle is atrophied. And so one of our goals, even to the way that we talk to the people that come through our doors, they're not patients, they're members, or members of our community, because we don't want to call them a patient and remind them of anything that they feel they feel they're sick, they need to be healing and all of that. And we like we're certain that the group container is going to help them foster relationships with people who have had similar experiences. Because at the end of the day, there was a one quote that I blanking on, exactly, but it was like, loneliness isn't having nobody around is having nobody to share your experience with. Hmm. So when you do what Jared said, Sure, yeah, you you know, if you go back to your regular world, your parents don't know about this, your significant others, like at some woowoo stuff, you you kind of it just becomes this thing that happened. When you're in a community of people who experienced it together, you can continue to grow and learn from each other as you move forward. And that's, I think, going to be the real benefit for people. Because at the end of the day, whether it's addiction, depression, anxiety, at some core level, there's a sense of disconnection. And so connection is, I think, what we need more than anything, it's why the doctor that listens to you, seems to cure you better.

Amy: 38:08

So true. That just made me think of something. Is this being explored, and it's probably, I don't know, like, the opposite or controversial or something. But for people who go to rehab, because they're going to rehab to like get off drugs or alcohol, but I'm just wondering, because what you're saying sounds like it would be really healing for someone that has addiction, but if they have addiction, is it like a counter to?

Julia Mirer M.D: 38:31

So the ketamine has been used in research for alcohol use disorder, and it was very effective, there was a lot of therapy involved, and then they're able to kind of apply all of that therapy after this dose. So it actually, it's a really, really good question, because that happens a lot with AAA it's like, or Na Na, that 100% abstinence is the goal. And when you look at it that way, and you look at you know what happens to people, okay? They're abstinent from drugs, but they are addicted to caffeine, they're addicted to cigarettes, they're addicted to sugar. So the addiction is still there. And it's a craving. And so changing your relationship to the substance, I think is the most profound. Like, that would be the result that I would hope for people think opioid is a little bit different, because opioids kind of just grab you and hold on to you. Yeah. But I've seen anecdotally so many people say, you know, I used to be an alcoholic and now I can have a glass of wine with my dinner and that's it.

Amy: 39:41

Interesting. So it really works on the the actual addiction to whatever substance versus something that you have to keep going back to because it makes you feel a certain way like it actually can not cure but like change your mindset around it, which is really fascinating, actually. Well,

Julia Mirer M.D: 39:58

and if you and it's like The intentional use,

Katie: 40:01

yeah, if you look at it as well, there's I mean, it's it's essentially just a medication that you're applying to the addiction. It's not necessarily like saying here, here's another drug to get addicted to, which is in regards to opioids that can be given naltrexone to help get rid of that dependency and everything. So I can see the similarities there. Before we get into, I would like you to walk us through a quick kind of outline of what a patient's experience would be. I know, you just touched on it a little bit, but like, I want our listener to hear what it's like to come in, sit down and go through the process. So who's in the office with them? How are you giving it to them, you can, I mean, choose any way of administrating any type. We should start by saying New shaman is a clinic in New York City, where Julia is the director of strategies. And it is where ketamine therapy is being done. So I would love to hear what what that looks like if someone comes in and they're, and they're getting started.

Julia Mirer M.D: 41:00

Okay, so a lot of times we get these inquiries online, and so they initially they get a phone call, so we make sure that there's nothing that disqualifies them from receiving ketamine. And so when, when they kind of are able to go through based on the initial screening, then they get an appointment with our medical director, who is this incredible, he was an internal medicine doctor who shifted completely into this work, because this was aligned with his not only his career, but his spirit. And so he does the medical evaluation. And we make sure that people are clear, you know, we check their medical history, there are medications, like basic testing, and if they are clear to go, then we schedule their appointment. And one of the coolest things about new Shama is that it looks nothing like a like a clinic. So you walk in, and there's these elaborate, like, elaborate artwork throughout as a wallpaper, there's plants, there's like, you know, the ambient music, and it just doesn't feel like the typical sterile environment. And when they get in, you know, we have 17 rooms. So when they come in, they, they're greeted, they are prepared, you know, they do whatever paperwork they need, and then they're brought into the room in the room, there's either a sofa, but most people are preferring the gravity chairs. So they get a little bit of kind of introduction to the space, the doctor comes in the same one that that their evaluation comes in, and they discuss, you know, final intention setting. They talked to them about, you know, they do some breathing techniques with them, and they start the IV, they start the dose. And then while we check on the patients, this is, as I mentioned earlier, a psychedelic dose. So we checked them for safety, but they're not, we were not talking to them, there is no therapist that's in there speaking to them, we make sure that they are, you know, they have their blindfold, they have their headphones, and that they are comfortable. And then when the session is over, it's about 60 to 90 minutes. And they we have one of our facilitators come in and so the facilitators are people who work with people in you know, the, in the preparation and then the integration, and they're there just to get some key takeaways to sit with the patient, bring them back into their body, you know, ketamine is a dissociative, so anything we can do to kind of welcome you back in this was really helpful so the last thing we want is for people to like you know, think that you know, that experience was really the benefit the benefit is feeling different once you're back in here you know, we don't want them stuck in the caregivers are seeking that kind of experience. So afterwards different people are different so some people need a little longer to recover you know, we're we're early so we actually are able to let patient's kind of ease into it and you know, it's not like we're trying to get them out for the next person to come in. Like we're able to really let them come back and then we offer them their snacks you know, we have to we have whatever their their preferences are, or some healthy snacks and then they get a follow up will they go home, we usually recommend that you that they either have somebody to pick them up, or just try to avoid the busy city life afterwards. It might be a little bit jarring once you kind of went into this expansive state. And then the following day we call and we check on your we find out how you're doing. We listen for any kind of sign that maybe you need some further support. We have a psychiatric nurse practitioner who is available For that follow up care as well. And if they have their own therapists, you know, we may recommend that they scheduled appointment. And we oftentimes recommend that they do that in preparation just ahead of time. So they have that the experience itself, we use higher doses. So there are some clinics that use these lower doses and it feels nice, we use doses that they are just like you are in the cosmos, people report feeling like they're floating that their body is not there, that they are, for the first time separate from that, from their thoughts. They're observing themselves almost like from a third person view. And if you think about people with chronic pain, like imagine the relief it is to not feel your body for a little bit. And that can be really healing for mental health as well, where it's like, for a minute, you just snapped out of the rumination that has defined your existence for however many years. And so what the way that our medical director talks about it, he says that it is a that ketamine strips away everything that isn't you so you get to kind of connect with that core essence of who you are. And remember that that is always there. Remember that that is always that that's who you always have been. And then everything that has caused you distress are things that you've learned, that are no longer serving, like, these are things that are these are learned behaviors that you don't have to choose to keep engaging in. So, you know, there we have, we have testimonials from patients that were we just recently recorded. And, you know, those are worth checking out as well, like a chair that,

Amy: 46:52

that's so interesting, I didn't realize that was the experience, I thought in my head, I don't know why I thought this, I just thought you go in, you get it. And then it's like a all day thing where you like, talk to a therapist and like figure out your trauma. So it's almost like your, your, your, your evaluating yourself, I mean, or do people after they get this treatment, then go to their therapist and like talk through things, it just seems to me like there there there should or could be a talk part of it, where you're like, processing and reflecting and processing.

Julia Mirer M.D: 47:26

Absolutely. So the period of time. You know, sometimes when you first come back, and even that next day, you might still be a little bit off. And then some people say like, oh, but the day after I was like, you know, really, really on top of it. So because sometimes it could just be taxing on the body or the mind even so, and I I completely agree with you that there's that 36 to 48 hour window afterwards, where it's really valuable to get into those therapy sessions to like review the things that came up for you. And we do talk, you know, the key takeaways immediately afterwards for people to kind of start thinking about, you know, what did these things mean? Because it could be a very interesting experience. But like, what does that mean to be here? Right. And for our group sessions, that's actually part of it. So on, it's a four hour dose day. So the first hours, we're talking about all the, you know, the questions that we have from the week prior, you know, how do you connect to your body. And then we have that to our dos session with the group. And then there's an hour afterwards where we sit around and we share your share what came up for you? Listen, you know, some people get so much healing out of listening to other people's experiences, and other people's interpretations. And then you have an entire group of people that can say, oh, maybe this means X, Y, and Z when you share yours. So yeah, we definitely do that. In the group, when we're doing in the group. That's That's what our plan is,

Katie: 48:55

and why you said blindfold and headphones during the hour or two. What's the reason for that? And are they listening to music, I suppose.

Julia Mirer M.D: 49:05

Yeah, so we have playlists that have been curated, that that we share with them with our members. And music has such a huge role in the psychedelic experience it can really like because the visuals that you get can shift with the music. And this is something that we hear from people with the psilocybin study. The music doesn't it's not like a DJ set, where it just flows into the next song. There's stark differences in songs. And in the psilocybin study in particular, the purpose of that is to snap you from one reality to or you know, change the visuals they have and see how it can evoke different things. There is a company called wave paths, which is it's run by a guy who was founded by a guy who like leading expert in music and psychedelics, and and this application is able to it's the music is put together in such a way so that you're able to elicit a certain feeling. And depending on what dose you're using, what route of administration and what goal you have with the feelings like you can really play around with the different sets. The blindfolds are to kind of, you know, you can open your eyes, you could see things but when you close your eyes, you get a much more internal and like immersive experience makes sense. And it helps like, you know, the blindfolds on, you're you're able to keep your eyes closed more easily. Yeah,

Katie: 50:36

sure. No, that makes sense. looking inward. I suppose I

Amy: 50:38

note on a personal note, I wonder if this would help me with claustrophobia, or fear of heights.

Julia Mirer M.D: 50:45

Interest I like just got this visual of like your visions being you and like crazy heights.

Amy: 50:51

Yeah, probably. It's funny. This is like, totally not related. But it's funny. My son has this like VR thing that he plays all the time. And there's this one game, it's called Walk the plank. And for I mean, for anyone, it's scary. But for someone who's like afraid of heights, it's crazy. And you put this thing on, you're in an alternate universe, you go up an elevator, and then you cross a little plank to another building. No one can do it, we do it on everyone that comes to our house. It's like a joke just to see. So many people are scared across this plank. And it's just virtual reality. But it's so real. And that's like, the only thing I could probably compare this experience to I'm sure it's nothing like it. But it's like wild how like your mind can just be stuck in certain ways. So one of the things I was going to ask you as I'm listening to this, and it sounds like it can be an incredible therapy for people that really need it. You're doing a lot of lobbying for psychedelic therapy. And I want to hear about that, because I imagine I don't know how expensive it is. But it seems like it might be expensive, not attainable for the average person insurance clearly probably doesn't cover it. So like, What's your thoughts on all of that?

Julia Mirer M.D: 52:02

Yeah, so one of the biggest hurdles, like I was saying is access. And currently These are expensive treatments. And I think one of the one of the things that happened with ketamine research is that a lot of the ketamine research didn't really involve a lot of therapy. So when it was, it's a lot harder to talk to insurance companies about it. So one thing is, we're trying to get more research that shows the therapy with the ketamine is effective and in you know, more effective, or just to get the information out there. So we have legs to stand on when we talk to these insurance companies. The other thing is, ketamine is since it is used for pain, and pain oftentimes shares a co diagnosis with mental health because if you've had pain for long enough, you're probably going to feel a little depressed about it, or anxious that it's going to get worse all these things. So there are opportunities to get it partially or covered by insurance when there's a diagnosis of pain. There's also a company called Anthea, which is one of the companies that is looking to serve as like a third party insurance for corporations to be able to give their employees to cover their employees ketamine assisted therapy. So there's what there's like people working on this from a research standpoint, so they know we would get this, ideally get this grant for research. But if we don't start creating research that includes therapy in it's like, the MDMA is, like 60 hours of therapy over you know, full therapy hours, because you have two therapists. So there's a lot of therapy that's involved. So that's going to be how it has to be rolled out. And I'm hoping to see the same thing for psilocybin for LSD for five me like all the medications for the other thing is, you know, when we talk about the home model, if you are a company that is truly screening and preparing your patients, this can be a good option. So there's room for everyone. You know, some people want to do group I am some people want to do, I can't afford IV in person, but the home model does offer a less expensive option, but slightly more risk for people who maybe are worried about their addictive tendencies, like you know, like the personalities or people who are already feeling lonely and don't really have a lot of support. Maybe a dissociative might make that a little bit, you know, more uncomfortable. So, I think that group therapy is going to end up being the most effective and cheaper, like the most affordable and effective in the like next couple of years before we start getting broad coverage. And you know, the other thing is There is this conversation, you know about the only people who can afford this, you know, and there's like, you know, some some debate about, you know, is that fair? And no, you know, access to medicine, effective medicine, being limited is not fair. But I think it's also important to recognize that we all suffer the same, we may have different contexts, but the same way that somebody can feel lonely and isolated, because, you know, their lower end of the fight like, you know, lower wealth. And people who are very wealthy can also feel a sense of disconnection, they can also suffer from, you know, sense of loss, people also lose people. So like, I think it's important to also remember that the fact that this is available at all, is really important, because the more people that can start to find healing, the more people start to exhibit pro social behavior, and the more people will be, you know, hopefully inclined to figure out how to get this to the world. Yeah, so you know, it's, it's really and for clinics, it's really frustrating that we can't make this cheaper, like, extremely frustrated, like, when I came into this, I was like, Oh, we're gonna let you could totally do this. And then you realize, like, oh, the logistics are actually really more difficult. And even the best of the best with most ethical practices are charging, you know, $5,000, because that's how, like, they're not going to be able to stay around to get it to insurance coverage, if they're trying to kind of, I mean, two things, that it's gonna be tough to stay afloat if you're not charging enough. And then also, you don't want to start taking away services in order to charge less, right? You want this to be effective and as effective as possible, and

Amy: 56:55

you need to be handheld through the experience. I mean, it's not like you can just Yeah, right. So yeah, and to your point, I mean, the more education, the more research, the more mainstream it will get, hopefully, more insurance companies will be open to it, and it will become more accessible for people because it just sounds like such a incredible therapy for people that really, really need it. So thank you for educating us today. This has been so just fascinating. Really.

Julia Mirer M.D: 57:23

Thank you for having me on. Yeah.

Katie: 57:25

Well, before we wrap up, we have a couple of things. First of all, if our listeners wanted to find you or reach out to you or you know, read what you're doing with the lobbying and everything get involved, how can they find you?

Julia Mirer M.D: 57:38

So they can find me on LinkedIn, I usually post over there. And then information about new shamans. It's new schema.com Okay, great.

Katie: 57:49

All right. So last thing, just like some fun little stuff that we like to do, we're going to do our rap session. First question is, what is your favorite wellness or beauty hack? Julia?

Julia Mirer M.D: 58:03

Um, wellness hack, so I, I have this like, love hate relationship with coffee. And so I started doing something a little bit different. So because I would realize that okay, I drink coffee in the morning. And then like, around noon, I'm like, like, I think I'm hungry. But I'm like, oh, I need more coffee. And or I have a crush. And so what I started doing is in the mornings, I do my smoothie before I have my coffee. And I if I end up even needing my coffee, I don't have that crash afterwards. And for me, I think that that from like a wellness standpoint, I feel like that was a really fun hack for me to learn in the last few months. That's yeah,

Katie: 58:44

that's a good one as I'm like, generate from my second cup of coffee over here.

Amy: 58:51

And what kind of smoothie is it? Yeah,

Katie: 58:53

what is your smoothie that you so Oh, yummy.

Julia Mirer M.D: 58:55

Um, I throw in everything. So I put in like I have the different from Whole Foods. I have the chaga the Reishi Lion's Mane, their collagen and their protein powder, the vanilla one that tastes like cereal milk, so everything else tastes better because I throw in like, I'll throw in celery ginger, like dill, sometimes cilantro. Interesting. Or I'll do like beets and carrots. And so I throw whatever stuff in there because I'm like, I'm just gonna give myself the nutrients I need. So like a drink the coffee.

Katie: 59:24

Yeah, smart.

Amy: 59:25

I love it. Okay, so the next one we call our five minute flow. And this is just a fun one where you get out of the shower, you're dried off and you're drying off and Uber just alerted you. They're five minutes away. You know, what's your quick beauty routine? What do you put on? What are your go twos to get out of the house on time and I'm sure you're such a busy person and doctor that like you don't have time to do anything. So it'd be good to hear what you're what you're putting on.

Julia Mirer M.D: 59:49

Um, so I'm a recovering physician. So there's very little in clinical like settings that I work on. And so for me, I pretty much like drawn my eyebrow Throw on a sports bra and leggings.

Amy: 1:00:03

Sounds good. Yeah.

Katie: 1:00:05

All right. And last one, how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Julia Mirer M.D: 1:00:12

So, morning meditation sets me up in the mornings. And then outdoors being outdoors, if I like on the days that it's just a little bit rainy here in Florida, like what? How do people what do I do? So minor Ron is definitely like, we always think about, oh, I don't have time to do this, I don't have time to do like the meditation. But for the most part, we all have five minutes. And I try to do it for as long as I can choose like 10 to 15. Without any alarms without anything, just and then throwing myself into this parasympathetic state in the morning, really allows me to stay more in that place. And I recognize when I don't do it for a while it starts my morning starts to get thrown off my coffee affects me differently. So yeah, that's been like an incredible practice that I've been able to maintain for a couple of years now.

Katie: 1:01:08

Nice. Awesome. Yeah, I feel you're on. Alright. Well, Julia, thank you so much for giving us so much of your time. And this has been incredibly interesting. Our listeners, I think, are just really going to like want to sink their teeth into this episode and learn all about it. And hopefully, the lobbying keeps going the way we need it to go. And this all really comes into fruition Marceau. So thank you. Thank you, Katie. And Amy,

Amy: 1:01:31

we always end the show with a mantra to just set our listeners up for the day or just something to think about and my found one that I think is really relevant for this discussion we just had, and it delete the old version of me in your head, it expired new roles.

Julia Mirer M.D: 1:01:46

Like I just got goosebumps. Yeah.

Amy: 1:01:49

That's a good one. So yes, thank you again for being on the show. And we look forward to staying in touch and following all of your updates. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness, so you don't have to. Bye.