Episode 43 - Parent-Child Relationship & Everything In Between With Parenting Coach, Erika Brunwasser Part 1 (Full Transcript)
This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 43 - Parent-Child Relationship & Everything In Between With Parenting Coach, Erika Brunwasser Part 1.
Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.
Amy: 0:06
Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.
Katie: 0:18
And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation Welcome to the show Nirvana sisters family. This week we are sitting down with Erika Brunwasser, parent coach and educator. She graduated with a BA in Psych from Ohio State masters in school counseling education from Fordham. She worked for eight years in a diverse night New York public school system as a guidance counselor with students ranging from kindergarten all the way up to high school she was responsible for helping with all social, emotional and behavioral issues in order to help students succeed academically. She's ran countless student groups and individual counseling sessions, parent trainings, staff trainings, took some time off to be a stay at home mom with her little girl Sadie and then came back and ran a girls empowerment group for Fairfield County nonprofit life girl ran a teen community service group in Greenwich and is now a parent coach started her company recently. She's an entrepreneur, kicking this off, and I am super excited to have her here because guess what, she's my parent coach. Oh, we're
Amy: 1:35
gonna get all into it.
Katie: 1:38
She's blown my mind. And in just three sessions, actually, in just one session helped my family tremendously. And in just three sessions has just continued to be phenomenal. So welcome to the show.
Erika: 1:51
Thank you so much, quite the introduction.
Amy: 1:55
Welcome, Erica. It's so nice to meet you.
Erika: 1:58
Thank you guys. I'm so excited to be here. And I
Amy: 2:01
go Buckeyes. I didn't go to Ohio State but my friend Courtney is like, crazy buckeye. So anytime I hear someone because Ohio State I have to just throw that in there.
Erika: 2:11
Fans are definitely hardcore.
Amy: 2:13
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Katie: 2:15
Erica and I are live in the studio together. So that's fun. Because obviously we live close to each other. So we wish you were here, Amy, the three of us it would be so much fun.
Amy: 2:24
I know. I know. But I just have to say something. Katie, I think it's really vulnerable of you to come into the show and bring someone who you're talking to and kind of bring your personal. I mean, I know we always talk about our personal lives, but still that's really close to your heart. So it's nice that you have Erica here to bring wisdom to our listeners, but also like it's your own coach. So I think that's really cool that you are here, Erica, so thanks.
Katie: 2:49
Thank you. We're so happy that you're here.
Erika: 2:51
And I'm so happy to be working with you and to be talking to you guys. This is awesome. Good. Great.
Katie: 2:56
Well, let's kick off our nirvana of the week. You happen.
Amy: 2:59
i Okay, so mine was actually this morning. It was just Saturday morning. And it's always hard to get my boys up in the morning. And normally on the weekend, they sleep late, but my son had a bar mitzvah to go to this morning. And so I had to get him up. And he was like complaining and it was like whole ordeal. But anyway, by the time he got up and got dressed like he hasn't gotten dressed up in a while. So he's wearing his cute pants and buttoned down and he's like, let me do his hair, which was so sweet. I was like, let me just do your hair this morning. And so I did it and I put some gel in and he was just looking it was just sweet. It was just like a cute little moment because I just feel like he's getting older. He's 12 He'll be 13 later this year and we'll get bar mitzvahed himself, but there's just a sweet little moment because I don't know I just feel like it'll get a lot of one on one like, Mommy time he's not as you know, affectionate with me as he used to be. He did give me a cute hug last night too. So I don't know it was just a nice little moment for me. What about you Katie? It's
Katie: 3:51
really sweet. Mine was last night. Very like spontaneous impromptu. I ended up going into the city and going to a concert with my husband Adam. And he listeners just so you know, he is the most diehard Pearl Jam fan. He follows him around the world. It was Eddie Vetter, and his new band earthlings it was at a really like a nice intimate venue is at the beacon in the city. And I think just seeing him happy brings me so much Nirvana and joy like when he is his happiest. I'm just like, Gaga like like googoo gaga over him. Like I'm in love with him to begin with. But when he's like that, it I just love it. So it's just really, really fun. Like it's so much fun together and so sweet. And it was just it was romantic and fun and the whole the whole thing, so it was great.
Amy: 4:40
That's so nice. I'm sure you probably haven't been out in a while like that, too. It's just nice to be in like a concert I'm sure
Katie: 4:46
100% I'm very pleased that it was at the peak and now because it's like my concert speed. I need to I need a chair. Yeah, saying right through people. So but yeah, what about your IQ and what's your nirvana?
Erika: 4:58
I'm not going to tell my husband Because I really wish that we went. Okay, so my nirvana of the week, and I hope I'm doing this right, is there's no right or wrong. I did not have to wipe my two year old after they went to the bathroom. That's fantastic. That's amazing. And I'll tell you what made it even better was that my older daughter set up this amazing game in the living room, where she was the camp counselor, and it was the camp, and the mat was the pool and there was swimming lessons, and there was a whole thing. And when the little one said she had to go to the bathroom, my older daughter put on some plastic gloves, just like a camp counselor would do. And she said, Mom, I'm taking her to the bathroom, and I'm gonna wipe her do not come. And I said, I will not come. I will sit here and drink my coffee. And it was a glorious moment. That's
Katie: 5:46
amazing. Oh my gosh.
Amy: 5:49
Congrats. Amazing.
Erika: 5:51
So that was definitely a Nirvana and how old are your girls?
Amy: 5:54
will obviously two and three and almost six. Wow. So
Katie: 6:00
that's so cute that yeah, the older one right? Yeah, maybe it's so cute that she created a camp to
Erika: 6:07
definitely be an all star camp counselor one day nice. It's in her blood, I
Katie: 6:11
think Nice. All right, well, let's kick it off. Because we have so much to cover. So first, let's just talk about how and why you decided to become a parenting coach.
Erika: 6:24
So like many families, like many mothers, especially, I really, really had a desire to be present for my kids. And I think most mothers struggle with the balance, we want to work, we want to stay on our career paths that we started before kids, we want to feel fulfilled, we want to feel like we're accomplishing something. I think a lot of people can relate to that. But we also want to be present, we want to be able to know the teachers, we want to be able to know the friends and their families, we want to be able to drive a carpool here or there once in a while. So you know, just to be really honest, working in a school does not pay nearly enough as it should. Our teachers are heroes, and they're complete rockstars. And it's 2% paid triple what they're making. And I found myself the first year after she was born, going to my great job in the New York City Department of Education at one of the largest and best schools on the Upper East Side. And my paycheck wasn't covering the cost of my nanny. And I had insurance, which is, you know, definitely a privilege that a lot of people don't have. And I had stability, I was tenured, which is also a privilege that a lot of people don't have. So it was hard to walk away from it. But I knew that there was more for me, like I knew, as fulfilling as that work was. And as as amazing as it was. I couldn't hand over every penny to my nanny, and miss out on my kit. So I had to just pause. And we moved to Connecticut, I took a year off to be with her. And then I kind of figured it out as I went along. And when it comes to becoming a parent coach, I really felt like okay, what did I love what really, like they talked about sparking joy or feeling like you're lighting up, right? Like what lit me up in the schools. And I was always I always enjoyed the kids. And I always loved the kids. But I felt drained when I was with the kids. And after I would come home, I felt like I needed a nap every day. But when a parent walked into my office, I lit up. And that was where it got my energy. I've always loved connecting with the parents and helping guide them to do what's best for their kids.
Katie: 8:40
That's amazing. And you do it so unbelievably well. I mean, you really do like her advice and direct tips. It's huge. Like you get to the core of the problem really, really quickly and effectively and instantly has the answer and the tools and gives them to you. It's It's really impressive. And you guys are all going to hear that because we're going to give some scenarios.
Erika: 9:05
Thanks. I know Joe, always about being instant. I do think that clients want to feel that and they want to feel like I'm giving them a quick fix. And so I do have little tools and tips and strategies that I like to let clients walk away from walk away with from a session. But I think a big part of the magic is developing the relationship with the client, which time and once you you find that trust, I think you can help them really make positive change in their families.
Amy: 9:38
Because I'm sure they open up more to right so then you're able to get it more Yeah, more deeply into like whatever. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I also we're excited to hear all the things today.
Katie: 9:49
Alright, so let's get right into it though because I feel like your our listeners are going to walk away with so much value from this conversation. So we have a few scenarios and some Questions, etc. So, just to start off, like, what are some of the biggest issues? I'm sure there's loads, you know, that run the gamut. But what do you find are some of the biggest problems that parents come to you for.
Erika: 10:12
So I think I mean, it's obvious that we are all drowning in this pandemic, I think for a lot of people who don't have children, and who feel secure enough with their health, they've kind of been able to move on and live, quote, unquote, a bit more of a normal life. But I think so many of the parents were still struggling, because either the little ones who have not yet been vaccinated, and parents want them vaccinated, or maybe, you know, school closures, people are drowning, managing both work and, and kids school at the same time. So there's a lot of pandemic related stuff. But I would say that, a lot of times people come to me right away, because there's some type of behavior presenting in the kid. So it's something that's really hard to deal with, you know, maybe the kid is not sleeping at night. Or maybe the kid doesn't want to go to school, or maybe there are issues, you know, with anger in the home and how the kids handling stress, or, you know, there may be some diagnosis that they want help, you know, setting the kid up for success with, but when they come to me for what's appearing to be a behavioral issue, I think we ended up uncovering a lot of other things that had become patterns in the family, that they could just really use help kind of tweaking or making better or helping to impose some structure around. I think that, you know, when I work with the clients, that I really feel like, as a parent, we have two main goals, all of us, myself included, I feel like you know, our goal is to build a relationship with our kids, to the point where they can come to you with anything and everything. Because if they can come to you with the small stuff, they can come to you with anything. And that's a lifelong bond that you'll always have if you can develop that at a young age. And our other goal is to raise independent adults, even whether they're two or 12, or 22. That's the end goal. So we do a lot of working towards that. And sometimes the client may not even know that we're working towards. We are
Katie: 12:21
nice. Okay, that's fantastic. I love that. All right. So you mentioned the pandemic, what have been some of the pandemic specific struggles that you're feeling like you're seeing, do you is it just a matter of like, I'm sure homeschool, you know, the remote schooling situation, and all of that.
Erika: 12:38
And I think depending on the family's level of isolation, we're depending on the parents level of anxiety about the pandemic, I think the kids are really feeling that a lot of them are really struggling. It's, it's a challenge.
Amy: 12:53
You just touched on something that I think is so crucial, which is coming to you for anything, because I have, you know, a preteen and a teenager, and I think they tell me some things, I don't think they tell me everything, I'd like them to tell me more. And I'm just wondering, what do you suggest that parents do to make sure that their kids are telling them everything? Or, you know, being more open especially, I mean, I teenage boys, so they're not exactly the most vocal? My younger one is a little bit more vocal than my older one. But how do you sort of get to
Erika: 13:30
that? I think that, first of all, if someone comes to me with a young child, I would try to coach them as young as possible to set up that relationship. In the beginning. However, I believe that it is never too late. So your boys are how old
Amy: 13:48
12 and 14, almost 15.
Erika: 13:50
So you wish they would come to you with anything and everything. I have never met a teenage boy that was gonna go to his Father with everything and anything, right? That's not right. They hold a lot in. There's a lot of societal norms around being a male, that the way they communicate. I saw that firsthand in the middle school. Mothers walk into my office saying, what what is he doing? Who is he friends with? Who is he dating what's going on? And I would say, okay, take a deep breath, because they're really, you know, they're not telling a lot. But when they do come to you, whether it's 10% of the time or 20% of the time, the first thing to do is to validate that they came to you and to look in their eyes and to really bond and to say, thank you so much for coming to me with this. That was really brave of you. I know that a lot of kids wouldn't talk to their their parent about this. And I just want you to know that I am here for you. So regardless of the topic, number one you want to like reinforce the fact that they came to you and make them proud about it and strengthen the bond. And number two, whatever you're talking about, it could be something As simple as should I go to this party? And it could be something as you know, intense as, should I have sex for the first time, at the end of the conversation, I recommend saying to them, thank you for coming to me with this, I'm here for you to talk about anything. Because the more you can do that, the more they'll, they'll believe it. And, yeah,
Amy: 15:23
I love that. That's a really good point. And I think my husband and I will both we always say to our kids, you can come to us with anything, like you're never gonna get in trouble if you can tell us anything. But like, I think that's too vague and like they're like, great, but that doesn't really mean anything. So I think to your point, I mean, that's it. That's a good thing to do. I mean, I think we do that sometimes. I don't know. They don't i Yeah, but that's but
Erika: 15:48
yeah, more intentional about it, you'll see the transformation more, you know what I mean?
Amy: 15:52
Like, even if it's something small, like if it's about like school, or like, right teacher, like anything really validated and they feel
Erika: 15:59
right, like, how many times do families just go towards like, this is your teacher? Yeah, we respect the teacher. But like, Okay, we know that we respect the teacher, everyone who's listening to this podcast, cares about teaching their kids to respect the teacher, and their kids already know that. So like, Don't worry, like, Listen, why are they coming to you, we have to listen more, you know, we're all aligned, and that we should respect the teacher, our kids have absorbed those values most likely, or are absorbing those values. So I don't think that's necessarily the thing to emphasize in something like that. But to say to your kid, thank you for coming to me with this. I'm here for you. I'm here to listen, you know, that was brave, and really listening. And in so much of this world right now, we just don't listen to one another. And a lot of what I talk about in parenting is modeling. And if we can model that for our kids, just I'm here for you. I'm here to listen, I think that that's can be a really good tool to connect with them.
Katie: 17:06
That also really helps me segue into the next question, because that's essentially positive reinforcement. Right. And when Erica and I first started working together, the very first thing that we discussed was my daughter was Madeline, she's my older daughter, she's eight years old for the listener. She has pretty severe ADHD, and we're starting to get it under control and everything. And she's doing really, really, really well. But her and I butt heads like crazy. And I'll ask her to do something. And I have to ask her 25 times and then it escalates into an argument. And then I yell at her and the whole thing in Erica's the very first thing she said to me was, watch for things that she's doing that are good. It could be as simple as she gave her sister a hug. It could be something as simple as you asked one time and she and she did it. Every time you see good, call it out. Praise her acknowledge it. Give her positive reinforcement. Okay, so I did that. It was the like, literally, she'd been home for school for one minute. I asked her to do one thing. I think it was bring her backpack upstairs. And she said, Okay, so I was like, Oh my gosh, did you see that? One time that was so awesome. High five. Thank you. And then 10 minutes later, I asked her to put her shoes in the closet. She was already like, into her afternoon chill doing her thing. Normally, I would have had to ask 10 times and it would have caused an argument. The kid instantly got up and said, Okay, mom, and put her shoes in the closet happy as can be like, no problem. I mean, it worked. It was literally instant. And then we well, it was a very intentional practice that I did for the rest of that weekend and that I have been doing on most days. It's hard to actually like, get into that habit to train yourself. Yeah, especially when you're always like, only caught like don't get me wrong. Of course if she does something great. You know, there's plenty of times where I say thank you or nice job but like it's not super intentional. And I'm more focused on when she does something wrong. And when she does something's This is my life. Yes, that's right. And so like so we're always seeing the negative not the positive really trained that way and not just
Erika: 19:17
the positive. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Oh, by the way, I was thrilled when you told me that at our next session. I was like yes, it's working. She's she's seeing but to be specific positive is one thing but specific is completely different. takes it to another level. Right? Wow. Look at the way you just gave your sister a hug. That was so kind. You guys have a special relationship. And guess what? It will become more special because you're telling your brainwashing it's a self fulfilling prophecy. You are kind you are caring. And guess what she is now she she I mean, not that she wasn't now
Katie: 19:56
she believes it. Right. But she looks at herself that way. Yeah, it's come true and aren't like our hope, like relationship Maddie and I now it's like a totally different line of chat and communication and demeanor and everything like she's sweet now, like we're nice to each other.
Amy: 20:11
Let me let me ask you a question. And I have so much to say about this. Katie knows, because I'll explain in a second. But, Katie, so just for the listener, so that obviously change of mindset definitely helps. But it's, it's not. There's, I'm sure you're in a situation where it's like two steps forward one step back, or whatever that phrase is, because I'm sure she's not like that every time but I'm sure this has helped what like 80% of the time 70% is only half the time like, what do you say? Like if someone were to start, like, more intentionally doing specific recognition? Like, how much of the time is it working versus not working?
Katie: 20:47
I'm just curious, Leon's up for my interview.
Amy: 20:50
I'm asking for my own stuff, because I'll tell you my experience.
Katie: 20:52
Okay, so with so with us when I was incredibly intentional, like those first three days, that was my homework, Erica gave me homework. So I was incredibly intentional.
Erika: 20:59
Because I knew she would do it. I don't give everyone homework. I'm not gonna do it. I don't give Right.
Katie: 21:04
Right. But I don't mind the homework. I was happy to do it. So yes, it worked. Like 90% of the time that weekend, literally. And then I you know, life gets busy. And yeah, I'm gonna, like wasn't hyper focus and intent on it. So I wasn't doing it 90% of the time, either. So it's like it works like as much as you put in. Really, right.
Erika: 21:27
So but but I think I know your question. I think
Amy: 21:31
well, yeah. Yeah. Tell me and then I'm going to ask you a couple of things. Yeah. So
Erika: 21:35
yes, that's great. And praise and reinforcement. And being specific is all great. However, what do we do when there are real challenges and behavioral challenges and challenges with discipline that we need to change? Is that what you're kind of thinking?
Amy: 21:48
Yeah, it's an ongoing conversation that I have in my household, as Katie knows with my husband, because I'm very much a positive reinforcer. And he is somewhere in the middle, he used to be much more negative. Now he's a lot more positive, because I've tried to drill it in his head, but it's definitely a mindset. And you always go back to like what you're used to. But he challenges me on this very specific thing, because he'll say, Well, I mean, that's so like, why are you praising for all of these things? It's like you're treating this kid, like, literally, they have kid gloves. And it's like, you can't constantly reinforce all these good things. Because it's like, they get their, like, soft, and like, they never have any discipline and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
Erika: 22:34
if you hear that, and if you listen to that concern, what I hear underneath that is fear. It's a fear, will they if I raise my child in this way, will they grow up to be okay, in this world, right. And I think we have to examine that. And by the way, I am not a therapist, I'm not a psychologist, I do have a master's degree in counseling, but I'm practicing now as a coach. Because my degree was specific to school counseling. And I really recommend therapy for almost everyone on this planet, I think it's really important to look within ourselves, look at patterns that we were raised with, you know, what can we do better, really, you know, get introspective and figure it all out? So a lot of times people see me in conjunction with therapy. Yeah. But it's, you have to examine what is it that you value? And what is it that you want is do you value creating a strong bond with your kid so that they will be more more, you know, open to listening to what you have to say. Because if you value that, then you have to build the relationship. And if you don't spend time building the relationship, your kid and you will not be connected, and you won't, you won't be able to say then let's talk about what happened, right?
Amy: 23:52
Because if you're nagging them all the time, you're telling them what they're doing wrong versus what they're doing, right? Then you have a kid who like doesn't want to come to you because they think you're annoying or a pain in the ass or whatever. But to your point, what you were saying earlier, like what do you do when you do need to discipline when something is not right. And you can't always, you know, just look at what's right. Yeah, so
Erika: 24:13
I'm not saying that there's not a place for discipline and a place for structure, there definitely is it's actually extremely important to SET set up structures that are consistent and that are predictable, so that you don't have to come in and say, Get to your room. Because if things are predictable for a kid, and if we can set up the kid for success, and if we can prep prep, prep them as much as possible with what we expect in our household. Then they know what they need, what standards they need to meet. If they don't know what they're supposed to meet. How are they meeting it? If we don't have a family contract if we don't have a set of expectations for dinner time. If we don't have this is the way bedtime goes in my house. and how in the world are they going to meet that standard? They don't even know what it is. Good point. Yeah. So I think preparation and knowing what to expect, and having norms within your home that are very clearly communicated to kids. And this can happen with two year olds with 14 year olds, doesn't matter what age it is, is really powerful and getting them to do what you expect them to do the right thing. Yeah, Amy,
Katie: 25:27
we just started in our last session tackling exactly this the discipline area. And yeah, we just started like to take it down to a very granular level, Erica, just give me a scenario. And I said, Okay, dinnertime, dinnertime, Madeline wants it in her chair. She's up and about constantly. And she's like, sandwich
Amy: 25:44
accent, my older son, by the way, for context, also has ADHD. But he's 15. Now he's much, much more able to handle it. And like he has more tools, I would say, but I know exactly what Katie is talking about, because he was the same way when he was that age. And he's still the same way. Now he's still can't sit at dinner. But go ahead. I want to hear what you're doing. Because yeah, because it's
Katie: 26:03
I mean, it's really brilliant. We haven't I haven't implemented it yet. Because our session was literally just two days ago. But exactly to what Erica just said, we're setting expectations. So Madeline and I are going to sit down and I'm going to very much give her like the leadership role in the practice of creating this chart of what we want our family dinner time to look like and like maybe like five, you know, rules like what are we going to expect and kind of like, lead her to come up with some of them, you know, and like, instead of saying you cannot ever get out of out of your chair, and you can get out of your chair, like maybe twice, but you have to ask me first. And you have to know that you have to get right back in your chair after you've you know, like, shake it all out. So we're Yeah, we're gonna go through this practice together and and create this. And then I'm going to have the that poster board right next to my dinner table. And so she always knows what the expectations are. And also, I'm going to talk to her about the importance of why it matters to me and help her to understand that like, Amy, it's so bad, it drives me so psycho that I am now eating dinner by myself before the eats. And then we all come together at the table and mommy's fed. So don't get hangry and rip her apart. Because she's getting up every 10 seconds while I'm trying to eat. Yeah,
Amy: 27:14
you know, you're very much like you're very much like stew because my husband goes crazy when Jackson does that too. And like, to the point of roles, like we're probably and I think this is where my husband gets annoyed with me like I'm a little loosey goosey. I'm not too disciplined in that area. So like if Jackson is getting up at dinner, I'm more of an empath. And I'm like, he's had a long day, like it's fine. Like, as long as he's in the room. Who cares if he's not sitting? You know, I know he's got ants in his pants. So it's fine. He's more like, why can't you sit down at the table?
Erika: 27:45
Right? Here's the thing about that. Your parenting goals could do not have to be the same as Katie's parenting goals. And it's something that I'm constantly mindful of when I'm working with families, right? This is not about what I value. This is about what Katie when I'm in a session with Katie, this is about what Katie values,
Amy: 28:02
right? She wants everyone sitting at the table helping
Erika: 28:05
her to get to that point. And a child will never meet our expectations without buy in. And that's a big, big part of behavior. It's huge. We have their buy in. Were they able to come up with some of the expectations on their own? Were they able to understand why this is important to our family? So that's what you're working on now. I think yeah,
Katie: 28:25
exactly. Yeah.
Amy: 28:26
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's good. And I need to do that more with school stuff. Because I think it's funny like, to your point Katie, like with with Maddie, I think specially kids, and it's just my observation, like, with my own experience, but I think especially kids with ADHD, like the positive reinforcement is so huge, because I think a counselor once told me this once like they're constantly every day from like a teacher or, like getting like reprimanded, like, sit in your seat do this, just so they're so it's like, their confidence is constantly like ticked down and down. So like, the more you can give them positive reinforcement and structure, the better they feel. And so I think my son has completely grown up in that area. He's like, so much more competent than he used to be. And he's really grown into himself. But when he was around that age, like same thing, it's just like, they're constantly hearing negative, so the more positive you can give them, I think the better it can be. I mean, obviously, for all kids, but I think specifically with kids with like attentional
Erika: 29:22
issues, I don't know if you can help your husband to kind of buy in and get on board also is that you know, you want to let him know like, these kids are really holding it in all day, from eight o'clock till four o'clock and sometimes sports after and whatever they do Hebrew school, church, whatever. Yeah, home at six o'clock for dinner and they are just dead. And by the way, they're not used to that pace of life because they've been in a pandemic for two years. I'm not against structure. I think structure is extremely important and expectations and clear expectations. but they have to be able to meet the expectations. And if the expectations are unrealistic. And by the way, this is not my idea. This is very widely accepted in the educational field, there's a brilliant author named Ross green, you may have read some of his books. I know one of the things you wanted to ask me about was like resources and things that I read is just amazing. I mean, almost every educator in schools has either listened to him or read him, he wrote the explosive child he wrote last at school, raising human beings. For kids with ADHD, I would recommend, okay, good to know, really, really talks a lot about this. And it helps frame our understanding of like, what we're asking them to do, when we're asking them to do it and just kind of be a little have more empathy.
Amy: 30:50
Let me ask you a question. Here's another one. Our listeners are gonna hate it. I'm like airing all my dirty laundry. But hey, why not? So this is like another one, small one. So my kids have chores, right? So my little one, he's just starting to get into it. Because he's like, oh, I want to, you know, whatever. And I'm like, Okay, here's your chores for the week, like, you'll get paid for the ones you do. So he gets something, not nothing. So my older one has had chores forever, and he does them, but always needs to be reminded. So perfect example, trash, you know, is always Friday morning. Every week, I would say 95% of the time, we have to remind him to take out the trash he does it. You know, whatever, half the time he brings in the CANS the next time half the time he doesn't, we have to remind him. So the conversations we have are to me, if I ask him and he does it, I'm good with that. To my husband. It's like, well, he should remember to do it and do it by himself without without us reminding him because then it really helps us. So we're not I'm like, I get it. But he's still doing it. It's not like he's not doing it. So it's always that like weird balance of like how, and I also don't want it to be like half assed I want I don't want him to like it's like this weird dynamic of like, if you're okay with him doing something sort of half assed or the full, complete thing. I just know, for some kids, it's harder than others to get the full job done any way that someone would expect it. Yes. So I don't know if I'm right, or he is right. Or if he's
Erika: 32:18
right. I mean, every kid is different. Every Yeah. And by the way, husbands and wives always struggle with this. Husbands and husbands struggle with this wives and wives, you're unsure. It's like the biggest thing, you're taking the people who were raised in two completely different households, who might be different, even from their sibling who was raised in the same household, and then you're marrying them and you're creating your own family together. So of course, you're going to have different expectations and different goals and different hopes and, and I think the fact that you're communicating about it, though, is a really positive idea. We
Amy: 32:53
Yeah, and we were, this was, you know, a while ago, I think now we're in a much better place. And he doesn't seem to be my husband. He doesn't seem to be as worried about it as he used to be. He goes in and out of like caring but and then the other last thing I'll say about this is the other argument we have, which Katie knows to which we talk about is like the taking away of things, like for example you do bad in school, you don't get your phone, you do that in school, you don't get your videos, whatever those things are. And I always struggle with this, because my mother in law always said something that always stuck with me, which was or which is the punishment should fit the crime, meaning if they do that in school, then okay, they have to like they do that on a math test. Okay, do 20 math problems, versus you don't get your game tonight? Because they're not related. And to me, that makes sense. But again, to my husband, it's like, well, they're not doing what they're supposed to do. Everything has to be taken away, because they're playing too many video games and too much fun. And they are, but to me, it's like not related. And I don't think it's helpful for the kid because I think even if you do that, they're still not going to do better on the quiz next time. Because I don't know. It's it's a constant like, so how do you how do you discipline and like, give them a punishment or consequence, that feels appropriate.
Erika: 34:08
So a lot of our ideas about discipline and consequences have come from societal norms, and from the way we were raised? And what I would ask is just because this is the way it's been done, is it the way we want to continue doing it? And also, I would ask your husband, if I was working with him? Is it working? That was the biggest question that I used to ask him by the way. Norms are different across cultures, too, right? So here in America, depending on your, you know, the level of income someone is raised with, depending on the type of, you know, area they're raised in, depending on their culture, depending on their race, I mean, the norms differ, right? So I had when I was born, Working in the city, I was at the largest middle school in Manhattan. And I was responsible for a grade of 500 kids, I was with them sixth, seventh and eighth grade and looped with kids. And I got to know families from every nationality and culture and race and religion. So interesting and socio economic background that you could possibly imagine. But the one thing that I did see was that people have ideas about how to raise kids based on the way they were raised. They're not always thinking about whether or not it's working, they're thinking, this is the way it's always been done. So this is how I'm going to do it. But then when I really sat down with a parent who was really struggling with their kid, and I looked them in the eyes, and I said to them, I got to ask you, is it working? And nine times out of 10? The answer was no. That's one of the things I do in my work is I help them come up with solutions that do work for their family. That
Katie: 35:50
was like a major aha moment for me when Eric Yeah, that to me, and looked me in the eye and said, Nothing is is that I knew all along that what I was doing was not working like I knew. But I didn't know better. I didn't know. And you don't know how, yeah, to like to say, I don't know the alternative. Right? Exactly. So it's not working. But it's still supposed to be right in my brain, this is still How you doing, if you want to know the
Erika: 36:17
alternative, you need support or not, this is not meant to be a single player sport, we need a village. We have been so insular here in our in our homes for the past two years. And for years before I mean, this society has been going towards, you know, so much kind of, you know, just being with your own family, I think in my observation, and this is not what parenting should be, we need grandparents around we need to answer on we need neighbors, we need friends, we need a parent coach and an objective, you know, expert in their field, who can really sit down with you and be your advocate and help you because these things are meant to be looked at and reconsidered. And, you know, I had families that I worked with who had been hitting their kids for years and years, that was what my parents did. And that was what they thought they should do. And and when I would sit down and really look them in the eye, like I said, and say, Is it working? And they would just just cry and say no, but what do right, well, we have to look at the way things are functioning in your family, in your home with a kid, what's successful, what's not successful and come up with a really practical plan that the kid will buy into, I really believe
Amy: 37:31
that's the key the kid buying in instead of giving them a set of rules, like here are all the things it's like, what do you think we should be doing about this issue? And let's come up with a plan together. Although if I do that with my kids now, though, like rolled our eyes, but still,
Erika: 37:43
yeah, you were did it if you did it when they were seven. And you said, this is why families need rules, rules do this, this and this, I would love to come up with this rules with you because you have a lot of great ideas. And then you make a list together, you draw it out.
Amy: 38:01
When my kids were little I had similar but it was more of just like the routine of the day. So we have this like big board with like all the boxes. And we'd be like, Okay, first we do breakfast, and then we change and then we do this. And it was very structure. But now you know now that they're older, we don't do that kind of thing. But I used to do that. And I used to like have pictures of them dressed with their backpack on so they knew exactly what to do. You know, so I totally does 100% work.
Erika: 38:25
And sometimes a lot of the struggles with adolescents, I think, and I think this is a bit of what you're describing is that their bodies have grown. But they're emotional development is still really young. Yeah, and we're treating them like adults in a lot of ways. And they're not there yet. And they still need the structure and they still need the support. And as much as they show us that they really want to push us away. They don't they just want our support to look a little bit different, but they still need us. And they still weren't
Amy: 38:55
so true. I think especially with my little one who's 12 Like he's definitely I would say more of a late bloomer than my older son like when my older son was in sixth grade he was like just much more I think in like it's much more mature now that he's in ninth but I feel like in six he was more like Intune my little one now just seems like so innocent to me and like he he really is he's growing but I think he still has the mind of like a six year old half the time because the things he does so it's a really good step back Yeah, emotionally
Erika: 39:26
Yeah, maturity probably. still really young.
Amy: 39:31
Yeah, absolutely.
Katie: 39:32
Yeah. Erica said recently on her Instagram page shape but which by the way for the listener her content is phenomenal with so many great like quick tips all the time, but you were talking about neediness like the these kids and we see it all the time. I'm sure we all do with all of our children when they're acting out or when they're doing something crazy because they need us they want to get they're trying to get our attention and it's Yeah, and you Like, you know, you hear parents say like, Oh, my kid is so needy right now. Because maybe like going over the top, or maybe they're going through something and they really, it's right. Like they of course they need us. They're these little tiny humans that were responsible for helping and developing. And it's just as a, as a busy parent, it's so easy to just not Oh, like an eye, full transparency. I am working with Erica, because I have had a very difficult year this past year, and I have not been present for my children. And that's a very difficult thing to say out loud, especially on the air. I have not been present with my kids. And it was it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was in bed for eight weeks sec. It's like, Oh, what have I been doing wrong? What do I do to deserve this? What what did I do? Oh, that's what I did. I haven't been getting my children, me. And so many of us. It's so easy. It's so easy to do. That's just that and
Amy: 41:03
when you say that katg mean, just like you. Because I mean, I'm sure a lot of us feel that way. You just kind of getting through the day, but you're not I because I hear you. And I think like Katie is like the most amazing mother. She's so in tune with our kids like her kids are like, I just, I see you as such a good mother and so communicative. So like, I feel like I Yeah, half the time. I'm not, you know, I'm just like, be let me talk to daddy about something. You know, it's just you get through your day, and you're not really thinking that they're like these people that need your support in a way that you're Yeah, you expect them to be adults or something and just like, oh, go do your thing. But when Yeah,
Katie: 41:41
it's just a matter of like, I've had too many distractions, and I haven't been focused. And and Kevin been intentional with them. Yeah. Haven't been intentional. You know, I haven't they haven't had my like undivided attention for as long as much as they deserve it. Yeah,
Erika: 41:59
not realistic to think that we're going to give that to them. 24/7. Right. And that's so great. That's okay. And we have to accept that. But also the fact that you are being vulnerable enough to say, This is what's been going wrong, and I want to be here for them. I think that's huge, huge. And if you're really an amazing mother, and none of us can be everything to everyone. And I think that's why so many of us are drowning right now. Yeah. But yeah, this knowing that you're working on it is a huge, huge, huge step in the right direction, and they're going to benefit from it. And they're going to see you working on yourself. And they're going to absorb that and they are going to internalize it. And it's just really
Katie: 42:38
good. And it shifts everything like it like and I'm not saying that I am now supermom that gives my kids my undivided attention all day, every day. I just have now when I am with them, I am with them. And yeah, I'm working. I am working. I'm not like Yeah, and when I when I need time to myself, it's you know, like, I'm not interweaving at all so much anymore, right? Like, quality over the
Amy: 42:59
quantity. Yes,
Erika: 43:00
100%. And I was talking about setting them up for success when it comes to behavior. So knowing what the expectations are, it's the same thing with when you want to spend time with them. Giving them the expectations, here's what's going to happen in this next hour. And this can happen with a teenager too, or a five year old doesn't matter. Here's what's gonna happen in our family for the next hour, me and daddy are gonna sit at the kitchen table and have a talk for 20 minutes, you guys are going to watch one show. When that's over, I'm going to sit and play a special game with you. After that, I'm going to make dinner, boom. If you don't do this, there will be craziness all around. I prompt Yes. And I promise that if you do it, it will be much more calm. Not
Amy: 43:41
I wish my puppy could understand English. She's literally taken over our household and I need to go on a tangent. Turning your house upside down this
Erika: 43:55
next step we have
Amy: 43:57
Well, it's funny, it's funny too, because you were saying like Katie, were saying this before, like, your kids are going to be as consistent as you are. It's the same thing with a puppy. So like, every time she does something wrong, I look at my husband and we're both like, oh, it's our fault. Because you know you, you do what you can and then you're like, alright, I ever break and then she's like, you know, tearing up shoes or like, you know, having an accident somewhere. But we're like, oh my god, this is like having a newborn again. Yeah, but anyway, I digress.
Erika: 44:23
So my kids are a little older.
Katie: 44:26
Very smart. Yeah,
Amy: 44:27
I was gonna ask you something else about so all that being said, I have a question about just like today's environment. And I talked about this with a lot of moms because I feel like kids now everything is instant. They never like there's no patience. Everything's online like they can like everything is just it's easy, and they're all spoiled. Do you know what I'm saying? Just because we're not not not everyone. But you know, the people that I'm talking about? It's like we say the kids are spoiled in the sense of like, they just have everything that they need. and they have everything that they need at their fingertips unlike it was when we were growing up. So do you see like a lot of parents concerned about that, like their kids don't have any sort of grit because it's just so easy to like get access to anything that you need.
Erika: 45:16
So yes, parents are concerned. And yes, the resilience and the grid is an issue. By the way, Duckworth wrote an amazing book called Grit, if you guys haven't read it, brilliant, and she does a lot of positive psychology stuff, and it's really awesome. But um, yes, however, I would say parents are probably not as aware and not as concerned enough about that as they should be. I believe that from my observation, this is not based on research. This is based on my immediate observation. And this is also not only in this neighborhood where we live, which is pretty affluent, and people really do have access. But this is also based on my experience in schools with many diverse types of kids, is that kids and families are going at such a fast pace these days, whether they're, you know, living in an apartment, or a mansion, it doesn't matter, it is such a fast pace, there is so much on the plate of the parent, there's way too much on the plate of the kids, school days are long, they're in a million activities, they're on social media, their phones are way too young of an age. And people are not stopping to sit down and take a step back and say, You know what, let's just sit, let's just chill. Like, turn off the iPad, put it away. Like, I noticed, and I mentioned this to Katie, that during March 2020, April 2020, may 2020. So many of us had like an awakening, like, wow, the peace of the world was not sustainable. The world was stressful. And now two years later, look at us, we're back to that pace. And I really believe that sitting down and putting away the devices and being present, whether it's 30 minutes a day, or an hour a day, or even two hours a week on Friday night, like, I'm Jewish too. And like we observed Shabbat, we don't really observe, I mean, we light the candles, and we sit and play a family game away for an hour and looking in each other's eyes. And just getting back to old school is so powerful for these kids. And they really need it. And they're, and they're struggling without it. And they need parents who are willing to model it for them. And whether you're, you know, running a podcast or running a parent, coach, Instagram, or whatever you're doing, we're all guilty of it. We're all on the devices, and we're all going at that pace. But I'm very mindful, to put my phone away when my daughter walks in the room as much as possible, or to or to say, there are no phones at dinner. And if my husband needs to send a message for work, he walks away and does it away from the table. There are certain things that we need to be incorporating in this world of access in this world of fast paced craziness that I think many are not are not doing it. They're not as concerned as they should be. I think, yeah, I think we need to say to our kids, oh, you need a shirt, a green shirt for Spirit Day tomorrow, I'm not gonna sit there and click Amazon and pay for it, I need to take a step back. Let's go to the bank. And let's see if you have $12 for the shirt. And we're gonna go to Walmart or wherever we go. And we're going to pick up the green shirt together. And we're going to understand how much it costs. And we're going to understand that someone made it. And we're, you know, there, that's just an example. But there are things we can do to incorporate more of the way we were brought up and more of the values that we had, that are more intentional. I really do.
Amy: 49:02
I love that. And I really need to do that more, because I'm guilty of it too. Like every second. I'm like, Oh, you need to scale it. Let me just go on Amazon. It'll be here tomorrow. Like, I'm so guilty of it. But I know the other side. So in my head, I justify it. But I really have to watch my own habits because I do the same thing, which is probably why my kids do it. But, you know, I once had my kids pediatrician told me, which I thought was a great idea when my kids were younger and they were getting older. And I had this I was like how do we get them to talk to me more or whatever. And she was like, you know, once a month or once every other weekend. She's like you should do a family board meeting where basically you do an activity together, no phones, whatever. And we did do it kind of like more prior to the pandemic before we were spending so much time together. But like we would go on a hike, no phones, and it was always amazing because they would always not want to go complain. But then we've got get there and then they'd be talking about something that happened at school that week that we would have never known unless we had spent that time with them. So it's a good reminder to to do that. And the funny thing And I'll admit this, this is so sad, but that's sad. But my husband, he's so sweet. He goes, a couple of weeks ago, he was, you know, sick of the devices. In addition to that he's, you know, he hates all the devices, he just thinks it's ridiculous. And he's like, we're gonna do, you know, like family reading our, and we're all gonna grab books, and we're just gonna sit and read together. And I didn't do this, but in my head, I'm like, like, I was like, okay, but of course, we haven't done it because that's the other problem is like, we'll come up with this idea. And then we like, Don't Institute it, because we forget or whatever. But anyway, it was a great idea. And I was even Pooh poohing it in my head. Because like, I didn't even want to do it. I was like, maybe I'll different half an hour, an hour is a little bit long for me and my attention again. But it was just so funny. So it's like, I'm doing the same things and reacting the same way. So I'm so glad we're having this conversation. And for our listeners, it's like, getting back to that mindset of like, the intention behind all of these things we're doing is so crucial. And I think, to your point of getting busy again, I think all of this starts to manifest itself more negatively. Whereas like, during the pandemic, it was like a step back, and you're sort of spending time but then you're also doing whatever you can to get by. So it's sort of this mix and then you're spending time together and really appreciating it. And now that people are getting back into the world like those old habits
Katie: 51:23
of life is fed back in Yeah, like a creep back end so fast again.
Amy: 51:28
Yeah, so it's a really good reminder. Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness, so you don't have to. Bye.