This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 29.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy: 0:07

Welcome to Nirvana sisters, where we discuss all things health and well being to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. Hi, I'm Amy Sherman, a marketing exec with a passion for wellness and beauty.

Katie: 0:19

Hi, I'm Katie Chandler, a former fit model that has a passion for health and fitness. We are

Amy: 0:25

sisters in law who share the same love for well being ready to sift through all the self care noise and bring you a splash of what we think is fun. So let's get started. Welcome back to the show Nirvana Sisters, we are so blessed to have Shelly Marshall aka the beauty shaman or beauty shamans with us today. She is back in season two. If you have listened to season one, she was in Episode 15. And that episode has done so well. She got so many downloads. So we wanted to have her back because I know a lot of the things we talked about. In the first season we had more questions and so we want to round it out and keep the questions going and hear more from from Shelly about all things guasha natural beauty etc. Natural and actually I want to ask you some questions today about injectables and things like that because I know we didn't get to it last time. So for those who didn't hear episode 15 Shelly is the founder of beauty shamans. She is a skin expert on a mission to help people raise the vibration of their skin using non toxic products, tools and rituals. She believes that beauty is rooted in health and mindset and our skin will reflect the things we consume. After years of experience and deep dives into cellular nutrition and aromatherapy, she developed a luxury line of Spa grade products for the skin to eat daily. She also teaches a unique style of facial healing using using a combination of facial massage, reflexology face yoga, and the ancient art of guasha. Her purpose is to help people shine their brightest light through practices of self love, therapeutic touch and healing their skin within. And Shelley's quote that I want to repeat, which I love is my purpose is not to heal you but to teach you how to heal yourself through the lens of skincare and self love, which is so nice. And for those of you that don't follow Shelly on Instagram, she has an incredible feed. It's called at beauty shamans. And I watched it daily, I watch all of your videos, all of your content, it's always changing. It's always new. It's always relaxing for me to watch you you're so beautiful and angelic and just the way you do all of your methods just inspires me every day to take care of myself even more. So thank you for coming back to the show. We're so happy to have you back.

Shelly: 2:41

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be back if

Amy: 2:45

you guys awesome. So we're gonna start again with our nirvana of the week, which for those of you who are new to the show, it's just something we want to take a step back, think about what brought us joy. I think it's really important as the fall is is is in full effect. And people seem to be busier than ever. It's good to take a step back and think about what was good this week. So I'll turn it to you Katie to tell us what was your Nirvana this week?

Katie: 3:09

Gee, I can't imagine doing now. I moved. Finally, we've only been discussing this move for I don't know how many months Amy's probably so sick of hearing about it. So we finally got and we moved into the house on Monday. And it's so good to be in our home. We've been so transient with the kids. And we've been living like nomads for the last month. And it's just good to be settled. We're getting settled. And I love the house. I love the house more than I would love to it before. You know like when you're in the space you find all the little things. You discover new stuff. So that is for sure it so yeah, yeah, it's like Nirvana of the year. I'm talking about Yeah.

Amy: 3:51

So I was thinking about this this morning, because I have been so stressed this week. I've just had a lot of work, a lot of stuff going on all good, but just really busy and been trying to take step backs and just reground myself. It's been a little hard this week. But last night I went to play golf. So I've been learning over the last year or so, how to play golf. I have done it over the years, but never have been consistent. Nor have I had time, but over quarantine and being home more. I've had a bit more time to take lessons and really work on it. Because I used to hate it. And now I'm turning into really liking it because I can actually hit the ball. So I'm thinking eventually I'll be able to play with my husband and kids and it'll be a nice activity for us but had a lesson last night and I hadn't gone in a couple of weeks and I did really well. So I was just really proud of myself because I hit the ball. Well I putted well, and I was like, Okay, I'm getting there, and I was feeling really good. So I came home kind of on a little Nirvana high. So that was mine of the week. What about you, Shelly?

Shelly: 4:47

Gee, I have a couple but I'll just, I'll touch on one. I had known about this subscription called gaia.com, which I'm sure a lot of people who are listening to this also You know, subscribe to gaia.com. But and it was recommended to me a few years ago. And I finally signed up for the subscription. And it, I've been feeling a lot, very low energy recently and just kind of stuck. And we also moved to new apartment, so you know, lots of new energy going on. And I started watching some of the documentaries and listening to some of the episodes on gaia.com. And it's just been so energizing, because a lot of it is based on spiritual practices, alternative healing techniques, alternative medicine, herbs, and you know, just the supernatural and metaphysical stuff and all this stuff that brings me joy and all the stuff that raises my vibration. So I've been feeling that, you know, being stuck in Instagram and emails, and really the news, my energy level was just totally tanking. And getting the subscription and watching a little bit of it each day has really raised my vibration and like, I just feel, I just feel so much lighter and so much more peaceful. It's like the Netflix of spiritual growth

Amy: 6:07

I heard of it is ga,

Shelly: 6:12

ga i a.com. Yeah, and it and it's like, it's it's set up, basically very similar to like Netflix or something. And you just go in, and you, you know, I want to watch this documentary, I want to watch this series, I want to do this yoga practice, I want to do this meditation, or you know, whatever. And it just, it has something for you, whatever, you're in the mood for that day, but it's always very uplifting, very eye opening, and it just gets my energy moving in the right direction of where I want to be in place. Great. That's

Amy: 6:41

good to know. I gotta try that. Because I think I've been feeling that way too. And you just described it. Well, kind of that low energy kind of stuck in a rut. And so yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I love that. Great. Well, getting into all the things. So one of the things I wanted to ask you about last time you were on the show, I bought it from you afterwards, because I really wanted to try it was this new face? Tool? Can you tell our listeners? Ah, there you go.

Shelly: 7:08

Yeah, what it does, I've

Amy: 7:10

used it I've, it's funny, I got it, and I started using it. But then I don't know, I kind of get out of the routine. So I need to get back in today. But can you tell us what it is and like how to use it and when the best time is to use it?

Shelly: 7:21

Sure. So um, so the new face. And there's a bunch of different kinds of, of microcurrent devices. But this is just the one I use because it's FDA approved. And because it's a professional strength device. But basically what microcurrent is, is it's a low level, energetic current that mimics the ionic currents in our own body, because you know, we are electrical beings. And so it kind of it kind of connects or stimulates that electrical current, which then activates and energizes cells to tone the muscles. So essentially, what microcurrent is doing is it's toning and strengthening the muscles. In this case of the face, they do have, you know, there are microcurrent for the body as well. But the face is so unique and that the muscles are directly connected to the skin. So you use a microcurrent device for lifting the face for improving the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles. It can also it's also been FDA approved for I believe it's been FDA approved for increasing the proteins in the skin, collagen and elastin. So it's just a really great at home device that you can use. And this one that I sell is a professional device. So it's it's the strongest of this series. And if you use it consistently and when I say consistently that can be whatever it means to you. Some people use it every day. Some people use it three times a week, I shoot for two or three times a week just to maintain and it basically you don't feel anything at all but what it's basically doing is it's energizing the muscles, thus the muscle cells to then strengthen those muscles. And when the muscles are strengthened and they're lifted, your skin will also follow

Amy: 9:12

and how do you when is the best time to Yeah,

Shelly: 9:15

so, so electric microcurrent you don't feel it but it does need a water soluble medium on the skin in order to conduct that electricity so if there's any oil on the skin, the electrical currents won't work. So the device comes with a kit that's that is a water soluble gel. But sometimes if people just have access to ultrasound gel or simply just water that that you continue to spray on the skin you need water on the skin in order to activate the electrical currents. And then the idea is to go in the direction that the muscles are so you know you have the the zygomatic major up on the cheek area you have the zygomatic major minor also on the cheek but connecting more to the muscle around the eye. You have the resource muscle that kind of comes out to the side that helps us to smile, you have so many muscles in the face that they connect here in the mouth area or the nasal labial fold area, and then kind of connect back on the hairline near your ear. So the idea is to use it in a way that trains the muscles upward. And there is a five second timer in this. And the idea is to move this device slowly because you're activating and stimulating that cellular activity. So you know, it'll go beep, and then you just move it along.

Amy: 10:37

And it seems like the in between the beeps, it's so slow. And I'm like, Am I doing it too slow, it feels so

Shelly: 10:41

odd to do it slow. And sometimes you'll it's even recommended that once you get up to where the muscles attach that you hold it for another five seconds, ah, so you can do you know, five seconds, all the way up the cheek and then hold it for five seconds, it is a slow process, I typically pair this with a deep breathing exercise because there's no getting around the fact that you have to move slowly when using this. So you may as well just slow down everything. And just you know, really oxygenate your lungs, which oxygenates your skin and just make it a somewhat meditative practice at the same time. So there are a lot of different pathways to use this. And you can actually go to the company website or the company Instagram and they do great tutorials. That's all they do all the time is tutorials on how to use this, but the general idea is moving from the center of the face to the outside and upward just to lift and tone the muscles.

Amy: 11:41

Yeah, I was gonna say do you is it better to do it Morning or night? That

Shelly: 11:45

really depends. I don't really think it matters. Okay, I don't think I think it matters more of when is it going to be most useful to you in terms of when you can slow down and relax. So if the mornings are more relaxing for you, then do it in the morning, if it's if it's better to do it in the evening, when you have more time than maybe the evenings. Sometimes what I'll do is in the morning, I'll have like an extra 20 minutes. So what I'll do is after I get out of the shower, I'll apply the gel, I'll use the new face for about, you know, five to eight minutes, wipe off the gel put on all the rest of my skincare products, give myself a nice little massage. And then that's like, you know, that's like a 15 minute thing right there. 1520 minutes, and then I just I feel great. And then I'm like, Okay, I did it for today like tonight, I'm going to work on something else.

Amy: 12:35

Can you use something else? I know you were talking about the gel. Like I've tried it with a serum before, but I don't know if it works just because I don't like the way that that gel feels because then it feels sticky. And I guess I yeah, maybe didn't wipe it off as good. I just would rather use like a thinner kind of, but I don't know,

Shelly: 12:52

you can you just have to be careful that there's not too much of an oil content in the serum. And that's why I use the gel or I just use ultrasound gel because I really because you can't feel it. So the little sparks a little bit. Okay, if you're feeling the sparks, that means you don't have enough jell O, or you don't have enough of the product on

Amy: 13:15

them, then it was working.

Shelly: 13:17

Well, that's how you can feel that it's working. But you want to be careful because it's electricity or electrical currents, it could cause a skin irritation or burn. So if you're feeling that sparking, you want to apply a little bit more gel. And then I agree with you. I don't like the feeling of jello on my face. But I do a really good job of taking like a hot washcloth afterwards and wiping all of it off using a toner getting all of it off completely. I don't like leaving any gel on my face. Yeah. The other way that you can sometimes tell that it's working is it will sometimes in some people stimulate this tastes of metal in their mouth. I don't know if you've experienced that. But if you experience tasting metal in your mouth while you're using it, then you definitely know that it's working.

Katie: 14:04

So is that an okay thing to pay some metal? That's fine. That doesn't mean perfectly. Okay, good.

Shelly: 14:10

Okay, doesn't mean you're overdoing it.

Katie: 14:12

Alright, that's interesting. I think I had a facial at a spa. I don't like how many years ago? And they did they use some kind of tool like that. And it was like little apps, apps, apps apps. It just felt like an electrical current was kind of going through my body. Yeah. Which I guess this is now the home version of that, which is this was I mean, before I moved out of the city, so it's a long time ago. Yeah,

Shelly: 14:31

yeah, this is the ad home version. So it's, you know, safe to use the only contra indications to using a microcurrent pregnancy because of the you know, has like a frequency to it. Epilepsy again, because of the frequency and active cancers in the area. So like if you have thyroid cancer or some sort of mouth or throat cancer, and a pacemaker because again, it is electrical current so you don't want to interfere with that.

Katie: 14:59

I will Make sure my father does not use new face.

Shelly: 15:04

You can't use any microcurrent devices.

Amy: 15:06

That was super helpful. Thank you for going through that, because I'm sure other people have those questions too, when they're novices like me. Okay, now I want to talk to you about like fun, other non natural things like fillers and laser, because we have dermatologists on the show earlier this season. And we were talking to her a little bit about that stuff. But I know the last time you mentioned or I've seen you mentioned on your Instagram that you'll integrate, like people will do, you know, glass shop, but they'll also do sometimes Botox and fillers, and how do you kind of balance it? And what is your recommendation on you know, as you're aging, and kind of like, you know, you don't want to do too much you, you still want to look natural, but what's your sort of recommendation on how you integrate both?

Shelly: 15:50

If somebody wants to integrate both, I obviously always leave it up to my clients, I educate them on the pros and cons of all options before before I may even make any suggestions. So first, you know, someone has to be open to the idea of these advanced procedures like like Botox or fillers or even you know, lasers, which are pretty non invasive. But you know, it all depends on their concern. It depends on their budget, it depends on what their goals are, it depends on what they're willing to sacrifice, it depends on a lot of different things. So for someone who, you know, say comes in and, and they straight UPS said, Tell me I don't want Botox or fillers I but I have these concerns. Well, then I'm going to focus on teaching them home care, and stuff like that, you know, going over treatment plans and whatnot. If someone comes in and they say, I these lines on my forehead are just bothering me, I can't like i It's all I see in the mirror, I can't stand them, please just get rid of them. What can we do? I educate them obviously, on what the pros and cons are of something like Botox to which paralyzes the muscle, which then paralyzes the skin from wrinkling. And there are pros and cons. But then, you know, they're they're like, Well, how, you know, does this mean that I have to, you know, keep coming is there anything I can do to prolong? So what I've found is that when people come in for say like Botox on the on the eye, between the eyebrows, and on the forehead, we'll just take that, for example. The Botox is paralyzing the muscle, so then the skin is no longer creasing, it's no longer wrinkling. At the same time, there's not a lot of blood flow going through that muscle anymore, because we've stopped all activity. So what I usually tell them to do is maybe about an hour, you know, Botox will last anywhere from three and a half to five months. So I tell them at about, you know, a month, so three to four weeks after their treatment, they need to start incorporating these at home practices, massage, reflexology, guasha. And really, you know, mind to muscle like imagining what they are doing, you know, is what's having the effect on the area. And you know, at the same time the because of the Botox, the wrinkle has completely flattened out, right. So they're, they're happy they see it. But you know, the more that they can train their muscles with either face yoga, or with guasha or you know, ironing out like the connective tissue now that it's in that relaxed state, the more they can massage the muscle now that it's in the relaxed state, they may be able to prolong. And so when they start to see the movement come back, they can go to those techniques and do them. And it can help to prolong their need to do more. And they can maybe get to the point where instead of coming in four or five times a year, they're only coming in one or two times a year. It's because they're doing these at home practices and these add home techniques that are enhancing their results. And then they're going to be happier, obviously, because they're paying less they're doing less intervention, and they're taking more control into their own hands of how to care for themselves.

Amy: 19:04

Right and can you do the guasha sooner than a month like if you're used to doing guasha like I've been doing it more and I love it I just find it relaxing as well as you know lifting and all of that. I never know like because I just got botox I don't know two weeks ago like right around my forehead and right here and I'm like afraid to do that. I'm like, can you? Is it bad? She is a guasha right after you get Botox you have to wait a certain amount of time.

Shelly: 19:30

Yes, you do have to wait a certain amount of time as the product takes generally seven to 10 days. I would say in general just to keep it simple two weeks to kick in as you're as you're noticing. Two weeks is usually the peak effect. And then after that, you can go back to your guasha you can use the new face You Can you know go get a massage, you can get a facial, I say rule of thumb I tell people no massage or you know getting facials or treatments for two to three weeks just to be safe. because if you do, let's say you do go get a massage and put your face in a head crate or something. at day two or three, when the Botox hasn't fully kicked in, well, it may be possible that that that injection point, the medication in that injection point is going to spread to other muscles that you may not want to relax. So, you know, and you know, when the muscles relax on the forehead, they are pushing it down. And so you don't want to come out with this sort of like sad truth the way she is. Right? Yeah, yeah. So I always tell I always tell my clients the story, just to really hone in on you need to be careful. The there was a an instructor that I had, who told us the story that, you know, he he had this patient that came in, she was irregular, she came in for her Botox injections all the time. And one time she came back two weeks later, and she was completely, her eyes were almost closed, like completely droopy. And they were trying to figure out what happened. Because, you know, she had been so many times before they did the same treatment plan, Nothing like this had ever happened before. And the receptionist said, Yeah, but when you came in, weren't you wearing a bike helmet. And she said, put the bike helmet on for like, you know, 20 minutes to ride home. But that was enough time to spread the product to other muscles, which then settled into the muscles, and then cause that paralysis, which caused the droopiness in her eyes for five months,

Amy: 21:26

though, that's all my easy. That's so So I tell

Shelly: 21:29

that story to my clients so that they remember it. And you guys have to be really careful there. Yeah, I'll never forget that, ooh, you just have to be a little careful with that. But after two or three weeks, you can go back to doing guasha and facial massage, some people will say that it it wears the product off because you're increasing the metabolism. And that's definitely true. But I just I think that it's such a, it's such a great way to address your concerns is to is to blend you know, sort of the the Western medical approach to it with the sort of self care practices, because it just it flattens out the muscles when you really iron out the the connective tissue and really work on the muscles and bring circulation. And I just have seen the change in myself, I am at the point now where I no longer do Botox for my forehead. I did it for years and years. And I got to I use that practice that I just explained where in between my sessions I would do you know, things like the guasha. And I would you know, work it out with different tools and different techniques. And I'm at the point now where I basically trained my face to not move in that way. And I've trained and sort of broken up and loosened up enough of the muscle tissue and the connective tissue and energized it that when it does crease, I know how to flatten it right back out.

Amy: 22:53

Yeah, you have. And that's the same rule applies like the two to three weeks, I just saw you had your storyteller tool, which I use all the time. Same thing there. You don't want to use that for a couple of weeks, I would imagine to Yeah,

Shelly: 23:04

same thing, nothing on the forehead for like two or three weeks. Now if you have filler, like in the middle of the face or something same you can do? Well, sorry, let me back up. If you have, let's say you have like Botox up on the forehead, you can still do your squash on the bottom half of the face. Okay. But if you have, but if you start to put fillers in, same thing, the fillers can still be somewhat movable for the first two weeks. So you don't want to do any sort of manipulation on the face whatsoever. I just tell people rule of thumb, anytime you get any kind of injection, wait two to three weeks before you do anything.

Amy: 23:40

Okay, what's your thoughts around filler?

Shelly: 23:43

I think it's appropriate in some cases. And and I've done it in the past, I haven't done it in years now. Because you know, I just have figured out other ways to to lift my face. Naturally, cause your a shaman, which is you know, and I studied, I studied it to figure out how to do that. But I think that for some people, again, who are just I need that quick fix, I feel awful, I see myself like on Zoom, I, you know, I don't like the way it's looking what, you know, I, you know, I want to have the discipline, but I don't, I just need that extra lift to get me started. And for some people, that's all it is, is just giving them an extra little lift or a little fill an area to fill the void of where the collagen and the fat has been broken down. And then it it can then well, at least I tried to coach them or teach them to start using some of these practices that will just enhance those results. But I don't think it's a bad thing. I think, you know, everybody's individual and everybody, you know, has different goals and concerns and I'm not against it. I'm not,

Amy: 24:51

you know, I really appreciate that because I think that you're very unique in the sense that you have all you do all of the The guasha and the eastern type is called Eastern. I don't know if that's the right.

Shelly: 25:06

Yeah, just like its natural modality, yeah, the natural

Amy: 25:10

techniques, but then you also do the injectables. And that combination is really unique. Because a lot of times I've asked just to kind of see, I had asked my well, not dermatologist, she's, she's more of a surgeon who does my Botox. I asked one of the nurses there, or maybe her like, Oh, can I do wash after this? And they were like, Yeah, I think it's fine. Like they don't, they're not very educated on it. So the fact that you know, both is really important, because I think this, this meeting of both is like the best of both worlds and to be able to keep it going versus always getting something put in your face. So

Shelly: 25:43

I think the most important thing is how getting these injections, or using these natural modalities make someone feel, because if you look in the mirror, and you are happy with what you see, the chemicals released, when you feel that you love yourself, when you look in the mirror, those chemicals released in your body are so much more powerful, and stronger and more impactful than any neurotoxin, any sort of injectable filler you will ever put in your body. So for me, it's about finding out and helping people figure out what is going to make them feel their absolute best. Because self love and self discovery and just feeling good about yourself is just there's nothing that matches that.

Amy: 26:36

I just think that that's medicine. Yeah, I

Shelly: 26:39

just think I just think that whatever is going to make you feel your most beautiful, is going to make you feel your best. And then you're going to show up and perform everyday better for yourself and for others, you know, and really what we're what what am I really trying to do here, I'm trying to raise the vibration of the whole collective by starting with the individual. And so if we as individuals can feel good about ourselves, then we're doing our part. And you know, it starts with you know, I mean, beauty is very powerful. And it's a part of our everyday lives whether whether you like it or not. Beauty is an you know, health they go hand in hand, but it's a very powerful tool in connecting and and being a part of this world.

Katie: 27:23

Yeah, well, sad and connecting with yourself to write and just staying. Yeah, yeah. So it, it speaks greatly to who you are as a businesswoman because you're telling people how to see you less so that they can self care for themselves. You're teaching them tools to do at home so that they can do these injectables for your environment between so I'm sure your patients really appreciate that too. So I wanted to touch a little bit about I want to go back to fillers and lasers because I am totally green to it. I've done Botox, and I've had some Botox experiences better than others, I have hopped around who I see and I think that's important too. You have to find somebody that knows how to do exactly what you want. But fillers when when is it an appropriate time to use them? And where do you find most people want to use them?

Shelly: 28:13

Most people want to use them for their undereyes

Katie: 28:17

okay, that into a hollowness or to pump up the cheekbones, the same thing.

Shelly: 28:23

So what happens it Well, I would say the two areas that people think that they need the filler is the under eyes and the nasal labial folds, okay, but to get an area that is right, the area that I filled the most is right here in the mid mid face like the mid cheek area. And you know, I mean my instructors and teachers have told me in the past like always treat what they want like you know give them exactly you know, if they come in for nasal labial folds, even though you see the rest of their skin falling, you treat the nasal labial fold, but what I do but what I try to do instead is I talk to them and I show them okay, you're you know you want your under eyes filled you have this like darkness here at the same time. The reason why that's happening is because the cheeks are falling and that's also causing this nasal labial fold to be more prominent. So what's actually happening is you've lost volume and you've lost the elasticity and your skin is starting to fall here where it used to be the skin the muscle the collagen used to be up here on this cheekbone, but now it's fallen and that's where you see the void but where you really need filling is in the most natural looking place which is where you naturally had it before. Okay, naturally had it in the cheek

Amy: 29:42

so I that's literally eye opening because I have gotten filler under my eyes for that exact reason because they're hollow. They're dark and like every time I look in the mirror, I can't stand it. Katie knows I was complained about it. I did fill her once and I actually didn't like it because I thought it made my undereyes look worse it almost like pushed out like the fat pads underneath like it made in like, almost more exaggerated and I didn't want it. And I felt like I could see it. And then it's funny because I asked my doctor about that. And she's like, Yeah, I wouldn't do it there. She said, I would do it in a few other like little places like in the cheeks just because then that will give the overall appearance. And but she didn't explain it the way that you explained it. She just kind of recommended what she would do, which I haven't done. But that's actually a really interesting way to think about it. And I never thought about that. I'm going to I might have to try that. Yeah, I

Shelly: 30:31

mean, like some people, I will feel their undereyes because let's like their cheeks are nice and full. And then they have that fallenness. And it's like, okay, well, that's actually where you need it. But I would say maybe eight times out of 10, it's because they've lost volume in the cheek. And that's really where they need the filling. Because it's going to it's going to like push it up, it's going to push it up a little bit. And what's going to happen is it's going to make this under eye area look less like drab,

Amy: 30:59

I guess we're like less

Shelly: 31:00

droopy. And then at the same time, you know, pushing a little bit of the skin up here is going to have an indirect lift on the nasal labial fold. So it just gives, to me a much more natural looking appearance. And people are usually a lot happier when I do that. Versus like what you said just filling the under eyes because then they always come back. But it's still

Amy: 31:22

right, because it looks nice. Yeah, kind of like we're supposed

Shelly: 31:27

to have a little bit of a depression there. And we're and we're also supposed to have a little bit of a nasal nasal labial fold, like, right, you know, if you're thinking about getting fillers, for those reasons, just remember, you should still have a little bit of it there. Otherwise, you're gonna start, in my opinion looking older

Katie: 31:46

in exams, and so often right people overdo it, and then they people over stretch, and

Shelly: 31:51

then and then they end up looking older. To me. It looks like they're scared person trying to look young. Yeah. And it's, that's really not the point. You're really just trying to look great and rested for

Katie: 32:02

so then. So I know nothing of lasers. I don't Amy, do you do lasers? I

Amy: 32:07

know. But I want to know, I want to learn about Yeah, what it is because I always hear people doing them. And I'm like, What does that even mean? And what does it do?

Katie: 32:13

When do we do it?

Shelly: 32:14

There are different, there are different kinds of lasers. I've used a couple I haven't used anything like a real Fraxel or anything like that. But I do know the science behind it and what it's doing. There are other things that are more way more, you know, invasive like co2 resurfacing, which I don't I you know, I don't have really any experience with that. But the majority of lasers that you see at these med spas, that you go in, and they say yeah, there's like maybe one to three days downtime, or there's no downtime, what those lasers are doing, and the technology has really advanced a lot in the last 20 years. For the most part, a lot of these lasers that are used for collagen rejuvenation, are bypassing the top layer of the skin, and they're heating up or making little micro injuries to the collagen layer. And collagen once it has been stimulated, or once it has been damaged, naturally, will grow back stronger, thicker, newer, and it basically produces new collagen cells. So that's what most lasers, you know, that you would go to a med spa for are doing is they're just basically using heat and using the laser technology to make those micro injuries so that it's so that the collagen can can kind of come back a little bit more, with a little bit more vibrancy with a little bit more cushion. And that helps to fill the fine lines and wrinkles. It can help to detoxify the skin. So you have less redness, it helps to you know, kind of constrict all the blood vessels away from the skin. There are also some lasers that are used for pigmentation. And those kinds of lasers do not work so much on the collagen layer, but more on the top layer of the skin. Now you'll feel those ones more. And they'll hurt more, because you have more of your nerve endings on the top layer of the skin. And so what those are doing is it's attracting or the laser is attracted to the pigment and the damaged pigment. And that brings it up to the surface which then sloughs off after about a week or two. So ah, so probably, yeah, yeah. Okay, and it's different from melasma melasma. You can think of I don't remember if I explained this to you guys in the last episode, but in order to tell the difference between melasma and sun damage, if your pigmentation looks like a continent, it's melasma. And that means it's internal and it's deep, and you should not use laser on it. If your pigmentation looks like little islands, not a continent, but little islands, most likely that sun induced it's on the surface of your skin. It's damaged melanocytes and that can be treated with laser with peels and with you know, internal nutrition sunscreen, and it's

Katie: 34:54

a great way to break it down. I know like melasma I had that with my first pregnancy and a lot of women get one they're pregnant, but then it goes away. But age spots. Yeah, I mean, they're pretty common. And I see them and I have girlfriends that are my age that have them and then you know, my mom has them, it can happen at any time. So a laser is a go to to get rid of the age spot.

Shelly: 35:14

It can be if you have a certain skin type. Also there. There's also that caveat as well is that the lasers for pigment work best on light skin, if you have olive skin or any skin color darker than mine, it's not recommended because the laser is looking for pigment. So if you're you know of, you know, African descent, Indian, Hispanic, you know, dark Asian, you have pigment, and it could actually cause a burn. Okay, because that yeah, so so like you too, would be fine, because you have fair skin. So the laser is not going to, it's going to hone in on the pigmentation and it's not even going to see the rest of your, you know, the rest of your skin cells for someone who's darker that the laser will see all of it and it's going to try to pull all of it up, and that can cause a burn. Wow.

Amy: 36:05

So let me ask you a question. I have done micro needling and PRP is microneedling a laser.

Shelly: 36:11

No. So okay, lasers, lasers mimic what microneedling does on a very low scale. So micro needling is otherwise known as collagen induction therapy. And what it's doing is much like how the lasers bypass the top layer of skin and treat that collagen layer that that layer underneath the skin where collagen and elastin and blood vessels are. The microneedling is using physical, sterile needles to go through the top layer of skin and target that collagen elastin and blood vessel layer to make that make a physical injury. So that the collagen can grow back the benefit of doing microneedling is that because the the needles are going directly through the top layer of skin, you can infuse certain ingredients because you've made microchannels in the skin. So you can infuse vitamin C hyaluronic acid PRP, which is platelet rich plasma which helps the skin to heal faster. And it also helps to stimulate cell renewal, which happens on the top layer happens happens more on the top layer of the skin. That's where we see, you know, the sloughing of dead skin. So micro needling is like laser on steroids. So it's almost better. Okay, I didn't realize that I tell people when they come in, you know, with the with the laser that we have, I tell them if you want to do you know slow and you know, study and just have a maintenance routine, we're going to do laser. If you need a one and done, you know, 123 treatments to treat X concern. We're going to do a bootcamp of three microneedling spaced about four to six weeks apart. And then you can you can go to lasers to maintain

Katie: 38:02

it was a painful, it's funny.

Amy: 38:03

I well, I did it. And I can tell you, I It wasn't painful for me. I mean, because they put numbing, they put numbing? Yeah, so I felt it a little bit. But it was not bad at all was kind of relaxing, just because I was laying there not doing anything. So I was like oh,

Shelly: 38:18

so I've done it with and without I've done it without numbing. And let me tell you, it is

Amy: 38:24

very painful. I can't imagine without an Amen. So so the

Shelly: 38:28

way that they actually discovered how microneedling works is through tattoo artists. And they were noticing that, you know, these tattoo, people were getting tattooed the skin that was being micro that was being injected with ink. That skin and the directly surrounding that skin was healing better and faster, and the skin looked more plump. And it looked you know more beautiful. And so that's how they kind of discovered it was that interested view. If you stimulate this collagen layer, it's going to produce more collagen. So I mean, that's so it's basically when you do it without numbing cream, you're basically tattooing your entire face without

Amy: 39:11

ever doing. So let me ask you a question because I did it a couple years ago and I did three sessions exactly like what you said it made like a huge difference like my business so much more like plump, younger, like just rush. And then they basically said you could do it once a year just to kind of keep it going maintain. Yeah, but I did it another time. I guess more recently, and I didn't really see that big it was okay, but I didn't see that big of a difference like I did the first time. So is it worth continuing to do that? Or should you do one of these different lasers is like upkeep or should you do it again? Like what's the, um,

Shelly: 39:45

I usually tell people you know, to do their boot camp first, you know, like 123 or you know, some people that have really deep acne scars and so they're going to do four to six days four to six weeks apart. And then after that I say you know as maintenance We can do it, you know, every, every turn of the season. So three to four times a year, you just come in, we'll do your microneedling. And then you can do lasers to maintain. And then after a couple years, like if you really need to go through that boot camp again, I would say, you know, depending on your age, depending on your particulars, maybe every three to four years, you do that boot camp again. Because usually it'll do

Amy: 40:24

it you're saying, like three to four times a year after the boot camp?

Shelly: 40:29

Yeah, I think so.

Amy: 40:30

I haven't seen those

Shelly: 40:32

I usually recommend Yeah, I usually recommend to do that. Again, I will say that the very first time you do it is when you're going to see the most dramatic results. And then after that, it's it's never going to be the same dramatic effects. Right.

Katie: 40:46

So I want to touch on what you just said, for people that have acne scars. So bad acne scarring, like does is that what that's good for that will help relieve that for people?

Shelly: 40:57

Yes. So in my opinion, microneedling is one of the best treatments for acne scars. And really, I think micro needling is probably best suited for people with acne scars, more so then people with pigmentation issues, wrinkles, and called general you know, collagen rejuvenation, micro needling is going to help but the people who are going to see the most difference, in my opinion, are those with acne scars. Because what it's doing is it's remodeling, that collagen layer, and it's breaking down some of the scar tissue as well. So I've seen dramatic changes and transformations and people who have, you know, done the micro needling for acne scars. Now, if they have active acne, that's a little bit more difficult, because you really shouldn't be, you know, puncturing into, you know, active blemishes. But as long as you don't have too many breakouts, it can really be transformational for like the texture of your skin. I mean, I had a lot of acne scars. I mean, so many. And I mean, I have photos that I can send to you guys like the transformation that I went through doing micro needling and that's really my opinion, the only thing that really like helped, but I got rid of it. That's

Amy: 42:13

because micro needling help with sunspots, like you were talking about before.

Shelly: 42:18

In not directly it will help to stimulate you know, the new collagen and stimulate new skin cells, which kind of helps to slough off some of the some of the old damage pigment cells, it really helps to, like I said, make those micro channels in the skin so you can get actives in the skin, which can help with lifting off some of that pigment. So you can like, you know, put on like a vitamin C, which is going to help to brighten the skin, you can put on you know, like a hyaluronic acid which is going to hydrate the deeper layers of the skin, which helps with overall healing of the skin. So I wouldn't say like if someone came to me and said I have pigmentation, do you think I should do micro needling, it wouldn't be the first thing that I would that I would recommend for them but it might be an added benefit it

Amy: 43:03

might bonus for them. Maybe one of the other lasers would be better for that.

Shelly: 43:07

One of the other lasers and and honestly, I think chemical peels because then they need to be somewhat light chemical peels, I find that with pigmentation. You always want to treat slow and low because any sort of trauma, any sort of excessive heat or invasive procedure is actually going to trigger more pigmentation. So I always tell people go slow and low we'll start with peels just to kind of lift some of that pigment up. And then you know, maybe we'll you know do some lasers later on. But we'll still keep it very light.

Katie: 43:39

I think the the chemical peels what you're just saying about going slow and low is so important because there's always like the horror story of somebody that does one and they're so shockingly red. I when I was modeling in my early 20s. I went to photographers loft one time and he opened the door and he looked like a burn victim is Oh Honey, don't worry. I just had a chemical peel. It'd be right. You know? It's hilarious. I had to look at that.

Amy: 44:03

You're like but I still remember it and I'm not doing it.

Katie: 44:07

I will never do a chemical peel because you just have the right person do it right and then guide you in the right direction.

Shelly: 44:14

Yeah, exactly. Okay,

Amy: 44:16

so funny. Yeah, no, Shelly, what are your clients asking about now? Like what's on the radar? What's kind of, what are you seeing? Go um,

Shelly: 44:25

you know, a lot of people are seeing themselves on Zoom. And they're really unhappy with like, you know, the nasal labial fold the under eye area but a lot of people the double chin. A lot of people are really like I see this like huge bulge on go. Yeah, yeah, it is. And so a lot of people ask, What can I do for that I have so many people that come in what can I do for you know, for a double chin? And they asked about Kybella and they asked about you know CoolSculpting which I wouldn't recommend now it's Some of the stories that have come out, but you know, liposuction, I mean, I think that this area right here underneath the chin doesn't get enough love, because we're constantly looking down. And we're constantly on our phones, we're constantly on the computer, we're not exercising the muscle. So there's no circulation, there's no lymphatic flow, all the fat is accumulating there, it's not getting any exercise. And so I always show people, you know, I give them homework at the end of their service, and I say, Okay, you're going to start doing this every single day. So that, you know, you can start exercising this muscle, you're going to start doing some guasha underneath the neck to sort of move some of the toxins that are, you know, stuck in the fat there and, and also just stuck under the skin. And you're gonna start to see the difference, you know, after a couple weeks of doing this,

Amy: 45:54

and that you do a lot of these videos on your feet like this face yoga. Yeah.

Shelly: 45:59

Mm hmm. What are the easiest ones, and I'll show you guys one. And I can walk listeners through this is literally just to tilt your head back, like your chin is all the way up. And then you can you can either just kiss the ceiling or kiss, you know, kind of make a motion like you're kissing the moon almost. Or just stick your tongue to your upper lip. And you can feel that muscle. Yeah, you can feel it stretch. Yeah, it feels good. Yeah, feel the muscle underneath your chin activate. Right away, do it right away. And if you just do you know, a couple sets of that couple times a day, so you can really make it's so easy. It's so easy. But we don't do it enough. Because our heads are down. All right, constantly

Amy: 46:44

down. Yeah.

Katie: 46:45

It seems like that's a crime. I love that. It's got to be a prime guasha tool spot to I would imagine, right? Like getting in there with that. I feel like it would help. Yeah, it is yeah,

Shelly: 46:55

definitely you want to you know, kind of you can break it up a little bit, but then always kind of come to the side. Because you always want to come out to those lymph nodes on the

Katie: 47:04

around the year not necessarily down.

Shelly: 47:07

Not necessarily down, you can do that to sort of just massage it and get things moving. But the way that you want to drain it is from the center under the chin to underneath the jawline to the ear, and then down to the collarbone because that's the pathway where it can be your get eliminated.

Katie: 47:24

Yeah. All right, the old double Chen. Well, I just wanted to mention really quickly, I've been looking at your website, it's so beautiful. And you look like Do you have some new exciting products at some skincare stuff? What's this, um, maybe the mermaid I didn't notice it before it what

Shelly: 47:41

I was, Oh, my pet I've had that we are we are sort of about to revamp some of our packaging, upsize some of our packaging so people can get more out of the products, make them a little more convenient for people. And we are also going to be adding a couple new things here in there. On the line. I have some stuff in the works.

Amy: 48:03

Yeah. Well, you did an Instagram poll the other day where you asked people what they wanted. So I was wondering as a coach, probably something in the works.

Shelly: 48:10

Yeah, yeah. And we also have, you know, a couple, like a new tool coming out for the holidays, which is it's, I have a very limited supply. So that will be something around the holidays that people can grab. And I also have a very special project that I'm working on as well on the side that I that can reach more of international or global audience. And you know, people can take what I do in the treatment room and use it in the comfort of their own home, as well.

Katie: 48:41

So congratulations. Oh my gosh, exciting.

Amy: 48:45

Congrats. We're such big fans.

Katie: 48:47

We really are. The other thing that I love on your site is your section about the things that you love, too. There's some great products in there. So yeah, I highly recommend that you're finding that. Yeah, it's so good. It's so good.

Amy: 49:00

And I also love which I know you've had for a while but I bought it after we first talked was the seaweed cleanser. And it's it is my favorite thing. It's like is there like peppermint or something in there? Like

Shelly: 49:11

some there's peppermint Yeah. And it was funny because

Amy: 49:15

I was away with a girlfriend of mine. And I was like, try this. And she's like, Oh, I love this. And I was like, Yeah, I think there's peppermint or something in it.

Shelly: 49:21

Yeah, it's the peppermint but also, you know, we make and formulate our products with pure seaweed or I'm sorry with pure seaweed, but also salt water, sea water, seawater, okay. And that is sort of the special ingredient in pretty much all products. The water based products, at least is the seawater, because the ocean has so many minerals. And what happens is those sort of ions, you know, from the from the different minerals and trace elements, they're, they're electrically charged and they're, you know, biologically are they they are with your own skin because you know that the the minerals in the seaweed are very compatible with your own blood plasma. So what you're feeling is a little bit of that peppermint, but you're also probably feeling sort of the magic from the ocean on your skin.

Katie: 50:12

That's very well, yes,

Amy: 50:14

I love it. Okay, so we did this last time, we're going to do it again, because you might have new answers. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack lately?

Shelly: 50:22

Face yoga?

Katie: 50:24

Hmm, yep. Yeah. So I need to get into it. Yeah, did you just teach yourself how to do it? Or

Shelly: 50:31

I'm taking a course right now. And I'm nearing the end of it. I'm taking a teacher certification course for face yoga. And it is so amazing. And it's so easy to do. It requires no tools it requires just just you're watching TV. Yeah, yeah, I do it with, you know, walking down the street with a mask on and no one knows. No one even sees it. So face yoga has I just think that the exercising the muscles of the face is so underrated and not utilized enough. And you know, if you don't use it, you lose it.

Katie: 51:07

So sure. Can you show us a little teeny bit of face? Yeah,

Shelly: 51:10

sure. So yeah, so this one, I like to call the happy the happy child. And it's where you stick your bottom lip onto your top, you lift the corners of your mouth, and then press your tongue to the roof of your mouth. And while you're doing that, you activate your cheeks, and you relax the rest of the face. So I'll show you how to do it.

Katie: 51:34

You can say it's kind of hard to do. Ah, oh my gosh, that's great. That is so

Shelly: 51:47

relaxed up here, relax up here and you want to activate here. Stick your tongue on the roof. I'm

Amy: 51:53

putting this on video. This is hilarious.

Shelly: 51:58

And then if you tilt your chin back, you also get that stretch here. So it's like an all

Katie: 52:02

in Nice. I love that. It's so great. Yeah, I love it. Fun, fun, fun. Alright, so the next one, we call five minute flow. I don't know if you remember. But Uber just pinged you. You're just getting out of the shower, got no time to get ready. What are you going to do really quickly to get yourself out the door? And in that Uber on time?

Shelly: 52:22

Oh my gosh, I do remember this question. And I I remember last time I was like, Oh, I'm just I'm completely naked. And I put oil all over my body. And yes, I would still do that. But I want to give a different answer. So I would probably I just got out of the shower. I'm going to I'm going to spray my face with one of my toners I'm going to apply some oil to my face. And as I'm getting dressed, I'm going to be doing some of my face yoga poses. Nice.

Amy: 52:55

Good, nice. Good one. And how are you maintain your daily Nirvana lately? I know you have your fabulous new apartment with all that beautiful natural light coming in. But what were you doing lately? Well,

Shelly: 53:04

yeah, I was actually gonna say now that I have this new apartment with this beautiful East facing balcony, we get the morning sunlight. So what I've been doing is every morning I do about five to 10 minutes of stretching and then I sit silently for five to 10 minutes with my face facing the sun and I just sort of take that in and it just sort of grounds me right you know, before the start of the day before I have any coffee. Anything is that's the first thing I've been doing.

Katie: 53:29

That sounds no magical. Yeah, well, that sounds fantastic. I think I could get up and have a little sun on my face every day and be a much better person. I need that. So thank you for sharing. Amy, you have a product recommendation for us right I'd love to hear what it is.

Amy: 53:46

I do I do so in season one I did a review of the Maybelline sky high mascara which was trending on tick tock and I love it and I still love that because it really makes your lashes long but I found something better. Which is the Ilia i Li a Ilia fullest Volumizing Mascara. Do you know Celli? Yeah, yeah. And I love it. So it's $28 you can get on ilia.com Sephora, etc. And this formulas clean so I feel much better about using it. It's a volume volumizing mascara that wraps each lash in weightless buildable volume without flaking, smudging, irritating even the most sensitive eyes which I can attest to. And I just love it I've been testing it out over the last month and it's just as good if not better than the sky high because I feel like the sky high made my lashes long but didn't really make them thick and this really does both and I just feel like it gives me a fuller like lush look Shelly's you feel the same way.

Shelly: 54:44

Yes I love that mascara I've been using it and I at this point it's now my go to

Amy: 54:49

now totally and I love the branding is just clean and pretty and it's a similar color color to our Nirvana sisters branding, so of course I love it but I also love the tube because it's thick. It's just like kind of feels good in the hand. There's just something about it. It's like a nice wait. So that's my reco of the week. Definitely a great, great mascara. We're still wearing masks. So you gotta have those eyes looking good. So that's my record of the week. And Katie, I think you have a mantra to close this out.

Katie: 55:15

I do. And I think this will definitely hit home for those of us that have had a stressful few weeks, which it seems, is always going on in the fall when everyone's transitioning back to work, or back to school with the kids. And then of course, you know, it's q4, if you're working, you're slammed and you've got crazy things like a move. It's, it's all nuts. So to remind us, my strength is greater than my struggle. And it will always get us through because we are strong and powerful. And any thing that hits us along the way, is just going to make us stronger. So there you

Amy: 55:50

go. Good one.

Katie: 55:52

Yeah. All right. Well, Shelly, thank you so much. It was so good to see you and to have your energy and your vibe. We just We love you so much. And we are so honored and thrilled to have you. Thank you so much. And we can't wait to

Amy: 56:05

see us in the city because we're definitely doing that. But yes, thank you so much for being on the show and being our resident beauty Shaman.

Shelly: 56:14

You guys so much for having me.

Amy: 56:17

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.