This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 91.

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here.

Amy : Welcome to Nirvana Sisters podcast, where we take the intimidation out of wellbeing and beauty to help you achieve your highest state, your nirvana.

Erika : We are Sisters in law and your hosts.

Amy : I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie Chandler: And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation. Welcome back to the show nirvana Sisters Family. We have an exciting guest back with us. She was a huge hit when she was here the first time. It is parent coach Erica Brunwiser. My friend, my parent coach, the best parent coach around. For those of you that don't remember or maybe didn't hear her first episode, erica Brunwiser is a parent coach and educator in Westport, Connecticut. Erica guides parents and helps them to overcome challenges and thrive in parenting and family life. She works with clients to become more connected and confident in order to help them and their children enjoy life and function better. And I can speak to that because she helped me do exactly that. Prior to becoming a parent coach, erica was a New York City school guidance counselor for thousands of families. She was a school counselor at Wagner Middle School in Power Charter School and Hunter College High School. She has helped many Fairfield County adolescents and families in various settings. Work includes leading girls empowerment groups for the New Canaan, Connecticut based nonprofit organization Live Girl. Live Girl. Probably live, girl. And running the Jewish Teen Action Committee for the Ujajcc in Greenwich, Connecticut. She has a master's degree in education and school counseling from Fordham University. Let's just put it this way. She's beyond qualified bachelor's degree in psychology from the Ohio State University. And Erica is very passionate about helping families achieve a strong connection to their children to live their best possible lives. So we have her back. We're going to get into some of these great questions about what we can do for our children, what we can do as parents to improve our lives all around well being, right? It's all about the well being.

Erika : Yay.

Amy : And I will say welcome back, Erica. Your two episodes, part one and two, have been very, very popular with our community. They've gotten like one of the highest downloads we've had, so we're so grateful to have you back. And just for our audience, the last time Erica was on it was March of 22. We did a part one and a part two, so make sure to check that out because it's a lot of great information in there. So welcome back to the show, Erica.

Erika : Thank you so much, guys. I'm so excited. I had the best time with you last year when I came, and I love talking to you guys and listening to you and so excited to be here.

Amy : Yeah, it's been almost a year. I was thinking about that.

Katie Chandler: Time goes by so fast. Well, should we stop with our Nirvana of the Week? Amy, do you want to go first?

Amy : Sure. Yeah. So I would say my nirvana this week was. I went to dinner last night with my dad. We did a little one on one dinner, which was fun and cute because he's always saying he never sees me enough, even though he literally lives in my neighborhood and practically next door to me. My parents do, which is amazing. I'm really busy so I don't get to spend as much time as we would like. So anyway, we did a little one on one daddy daughter dinner, which was nice, and just caught up and spent some time, quality time together. So that was my Nirvana this week. What about you, Katie?

Katie Chandler: Sweet. And I'm going to see your dad soon. Your parents are on their way here for the weekend. I think mineirvana this week has been my other job. My other work is ramping up and I'm working a lot and I'm loving it so much. It's so funny how much I used to take it for granted ten years ago, before I was a mom. Before, like the whole thing when I used to do it, I don't know, maybe it was burnt out.

Amy : You appreciate it more now?

Katie Chandler: Probably so much more. And I have so much fun with my clients and it's just great.

Erika : I love it.

Katie Chandler: So it's definitely a nirvana for me. What about you, Erica?

Erika : Isn't that amazing how work becomes a break sometimes when you're a parent? Yeah, that's rough. Really? So mine is actually more like a Nirvana of the month. I don't know if you guys saw, but if you follow Westport mom's Instagram, they did a giveaway, like a huge holiday giveaway, and they gave away like ten things worth like thousands of dollars, a massage, a photo shoot, a haircut and color, blah, blah, blah, million things. A diamond sapphire ring.

Katie Chandler: Wow.

Erika : I won it. You did what? So I'm about to, like, collect my winning.

Katie Chandler: Nice.

Erika : And I'm so excited and like, that is so cool. I'm literally going to go get my massage and go pamper myself and have a family photo shoot on the beach all for free because I pull a package.

Katie Chandler: You won the whole thing?

Amy : How did you enter it?

Erika : You know on Instagram when they'll be like, follow this person and tag a friend and you're entered in our giveaway. So I did that and a friend screenshotted it, sent it to me and said, you won. And I said, what did I win? She said everything.

Katie Chandler: Oh, my gosh.

Erika : That's like total nirvana. Really?

Amy : Oh, my God, that's so cool.

Erika : I know. Who wins.

Katie Chandler: I know. I love it. Great. All right, well, good for you. I'm jealous.

Erika : Good for you.

Katie Chandler: All right, well, let's kick it off. So Erica has so much great content and she gives the most phenomenal advice and you absolutely have to listen to her first episodes of One and Two with us because we get into a lot. I think this time around we are just going to kind of dial into more like the wellness for you as a parent and how to keep the balance between you and your child. And there'll be some other little tips in there. But to start out, this is one that I know I'm guilty of. I think probably every parent in the world is at least the moms who knows what the dads are thinking, but.

Erika : Nothing I just get so we all.

Katie Chandler: Compare ourselves to other parents all the time. It's social media, right? We see these, like, super moms doing all these amazing things and it's really hard to not compare. So tell us about that. What are you seeing with your clients in that respect? How are you dealing with that as a parent yourself, and what can we do to keep that from happening all the time? Comparison is the thief of joy.

Erika : Yes, it really is. So it's actually interesting because I just read a book recently where the author talked a lot about this and it's called You Are Not a ****** Parent by an author named Carla Nomberg. And I moderated like a book. Talk with her through the Jewish Federation of Greater Fairfield County. So I got to meet her and we discussed this at Link, and she was saying that in our culture, social media has played such a big role in this and it's trickling down to the adolescents and to the even like the early teens, late childhood. And I think that what's happening is we really are comparing ourselves so much, and the bar has changed for what we're striving for in our society. Whereas 2030 years ago it was maybe normal to have ups and downs and good days and bad days, now we're getting on social media and we're scrolling and we're seeing, oh, my God, this one's doing amy and Katie are doing this unbelievable podcast. Look at them. What am I doing with my life? Or look at Erica, she did a speaking engagement as a parent coach the other day. But obviously my life is nowhere near perfect. Your lives are probably nowhere near perfect, but because of the frequency with which we're looking at other people, I mean, you know how many times a day we're checking our phones? I know it's crazy and it's changing. I think the bar for what we're striving for. And it used to be that maybe you'd pick up a fashion magazine and especially when we talk about girls and body image and adolescence, maybe you'd strive to look like the girl in the magazine, but then you'd put it down and you'd get a break and you'd feel present, but it's just constant. And I think that we really need to be mindful of our social media usage, how we're modeling it for our kids, making an intention to say, I'm going to put it down between the hours of seven and nine or whatever it is, and we really need to kind of remove ourselves. And I think we need to take a little bit more control back. We've given so much control to these devices that we just can't live without and I think it plays a huge part in at the end of the day, really it's impacting our self esteem and making us feel less than when that's not the case because everyone's life is up and down and in the middle. But people are only showing the best parts of themselves, right?

Katie Chandler: And that's what is so easy to forget. When we see these influencers on social media, especially the parenting ones that are posting like every single day. They've got this new great craft that they're doing with their kid or how they've organized the playroom and done all of these amazing things. We really do have to remind ourselves that that is just a small glimpse into their everyday life. They're also dealing in the weeds and dealing with all of the **** just the same as the rest of us are. So it's kind of a matter of, like you said, removing yourself and then also removing the devices rather and then having some self compassion, right? I literally very recently Googled is it okay to yell at my kids?

Amy : I would say too, I also think social media is changing or at least what I'm seeing. And like with my other job and the way that people are approaching social, I think that people are starting to be more real and to actually talk about real things, especially on TikTok. And so I'm really happy to see that people are actually filter off literally and figuratively, right, and talking about real issues and connecting with people more and more. So hopefully the trend will continue in that way. I think it's kind of gone are the days of these like I would hope people for the most part with all these people that are thinking like everyone's lives are perfect, can kind of look at it and roll their eyes and be like okay, because it's not what you see. What's that phrase? Like what you see is not always what it is. Right? To your point, that's two minutes of their day and what else is happening? So I think I try to take all of that stuff with a grain of salt and I just think you also have to have a really good compass to be able to brush it off, which not everybody can. I mean, I know people have just gone off social media because I think it's just really hard for them to look, to see what other people are doing. It's just hard for them to not compare themselves, also feel insecure. And I think if you're that kind of person, I think it is healthy to go off. Right, but I think too we have to take all of these things with the grain of salt because nothing is.

Erika : What it seems to do and also cultivating a community around you that you know is comprised of supportive and real people, right?

Amy : Yeah.

Erika : Katie, you and I are friends for real outside of work, and I think some of the women that we're friends with here that we've met in Westport are just super real and will show up for you. And I think finding those people, it's not always easy and it takes time, especially if you're new to a community. But finding people who you feel comfortable, like, showing your messy house to or, like, no makeup or saying, like, this day is a total **** show. Because we need to have people who can normalize these things for us. Because life is up and down and we've never been so insular throughout all of history. People lived in villages, people celebrated together, people mourned together. Now we're really kind of like on an island at home. A lot of people are working from home or just kind of turning on the TV to keep our kids busy. And it's not something we should feel guilty about. But I do think to create intentional times, to surround yourself in person with others, with others who are real, with others who are also going through hard things, who feel comfortable sharing and normalizing the negative as well as the positive, I think that that's a huge piece of that.

Katie Chandler: 100%.

Amy : Yeah, I totally agree. And I would say, too, I feel like the older you get, you want to surround yourself with the people that you can be the most real with, to your point, like wearing no makeup, with complain, talk about the good, the bad, have your house messy, like, who cares? And those are the people that you're going to end up, or at least that I end up gravitating to, because who has time to deal with the other nonsense?

Katie Chandler: And also, parenting can be really isolating, I think sometimes, especially in the early years when you have babies, when the kids are really little, you can just be so entrenched that it's hard to kind of see outside of what's going on in your four walls.

Erika : Yeah, it's really consuming.

Katie Chandler: It's all consuming. It really is. Yeah. So that's all great advice. So speaking of that, it being all consuming, let's talk about I saw recently that you were imploring your followers and your clients and everything on social media to put themselves first and to take care of themselves in order to be connected and be present with their children. And Amy and I, obviously, we stand behind this. This is kind of why we're here. And what we do is taking care of yourself and your well being to be your best of us. So let's talk more about that. Why do you feel that's so important?

Erika : So when I started this business was about a year ago, and I had worked in schools, like you mentioned earlier in the podcast, and I had gone to grad school for education. And I had read all the books and done all the things and gone to all the professional development seminars, and I learned a lot about behavior and academics and kids and how to succeed and how to be mentally healthy and all that stuff. And I think that what parents were really yearning for, especially coming out of COVID was like, just give me the strategies. Just, this is happening. Tell me what to do. And they were so eager. And when I first started working one on one with them in this setting, not in the school setting, I was like, okay, well, now they're actually paying me, right? So I want to give them results. So I would just kind of like, spit out strategies like, okay, you're doing this. Get a feelings chart. This is how you're going to use it. This is a chart. This is a sticker chart. And then I thought, wait, I know in my heart that what these parents need is to feel more confident in their parenting, to feel more well rounded overall, to feel like they have some fulfillment in their own lives. And as soon as parents can get to a place where they're feeling those things, then their kids will benefit. As a result, it's not always about fixing the problem or getting them through whatever stage they're in because the ups and downs of life and development are going to happen. But you know how they say, like, happy wife, happy life? Well, like, I think like, a mom who is content and a mom who feels fulfilled is going to have a family who feels more content. And so what I started doing with my clients is really taking a look at their lives. We did this together, looking at the different areas of their lives. How are you feeling in love and romance? How are you feeling in work? What do you want to achieve in work? Really setting concrete goals. How are you feeling in communicating with your kids? How are you feeling with your home? And are you overwhelmed and do you maybe need to move some finances around to get someone in to help you in some way? Like taking the pressure off, setting concrete goals and allowing parents to feel like, actually, you know what? I'm important and I'm going to put my needs first. That has such a tremendous impact on the wellbeing of the whole family. And the kids end up being happier and healthier that way. When the parent is happier, yeah, they.

Katie Chandler: Benefit from it tremendously. Right now, I think about looking back on times maybe like this past year when I was having a harder year. Of course my temper is up, I'm more short fused. I might snap. I might, like, raise my voice more. Just generally speaking, if the if the mom, if the parent is feeling a sense of unease or stressed, like, it leaches out into everything else, right?

Amy : Your kids feel it. I mean, like the temperature of the room changes if you're in a certain mood. Like, everyone can feel that energy.

Erika : And I also think it's really important, like we were saying, with comparison, like to normalize the good and the bad and everything in between. I think when it comes to and not to knock the name of your podcast, which is an amazing name, but I don't know that going for pure Nirvana every day is actually our goal.

Amy : Right.

Erika : You know what I mean? Maybe we're going for like mediocrity in our lives. Like maybe we're like which is your.

Amy : Nirvana and that's and maybe the badges.

Erika : Are just something that come and we just kind of ride the wave and maybe being more accepting and more having the expectation that these are going to come and we're going to get through them is healthier for us and for our kids. And that when challenges come up with our kids, it's not a catastrophe, it's actually just life and we will get through it and we can get through it.

Katie Chandler: Right?

Erika : And so I think when we're talking about our own wellness, our mindset and shifting to away from perfection and to normalizing the ups and downs is a hugely healthy shift that we all should make 100%.

Katie Chandler: Speaking to that of achieving the greatest nirvana, I have been trying to live more like, you have these peaks and valleys, right? We have really bad days. We have really great days. And I think trying to live in that middle zone that like even keel all the time, things are good things. We shouldn't always be shooting for the stars every day. And it's okay if we have these really bad days. If we can just kind of like the day to day exist in the middle. For me, that's minor vana. And I think the kids can can feel that, like, sense of calm and, you know, like, we have a bad day, it's okay, pick ourselves up the next day, it's fine, no big deal.

Erika : And what goes hand in hand with that, which is maybe surprising to some of your listeners, is that if you live your life in a place where you're kind of expecting the bad to happen and you normalize, that it's okay to have positives and negatives. I think that the kids will feel less intimidated to come to you with whatever's going on.

Amy : Right?

Erika : So when you talk about like we were talking about being present and communicating, if it's expected that your kids are allowed to fail at some things or are allowed to go through hard days or don't always have to make the team or don't always have to have these perfectionistic standards, then they'll also be more likely to come to you with those things. Right? And so if you're modeling for them you know what, this is a really hard week. I'm not feeling great. And that's okay. Because I know that next week is going to get better. Then it really opens up the lines of communication between you and your kids, especially adolescents, because as you know, Amy, having adolescents, they are so high and so low. Okay? If they're feeling sad, sadness is a part of life. I'm not saying that we should be overlooking depression or any serious mental illness, but highs and lows, the Moody one.

Amy : Day, all right, whatever. Tomorrow they'll be in a different mood. It's just like us, right? Some days are good and some days are bad. Also just going back to the putting yourself first piece. They always say, which I hear all the time, but on an airplane, that comparison of, like, putting on your face mask before you put on your children, like, take care of yourself first before you can take care of your children, because otherwise you won't be able to take care of your children. So super important. And, yeah, I think it's a really good point about the Nirvana piece. And just like Katie said, I think, and we always try to preach this, too, about whatever Nirvana means for you, which could mean it's not a great day, it's not a bad day. It might just be in the middle, or maybe today is bad, but I know tomorrow is going to be good. So I think it's about adjusting that based on the day and trying to find some sort of joy throughout your day. But right. Not every day is going to be great. And totally agree that it's really helpful to share that with your kids and tell your kids you're not having a great day or something like that, because they're obviously very influenced by what other friends are doing on social media and all the things they aren't invited to, potentially, and all of that stuff. And they need to know what's up.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, very well said. I totally agree. Well, I would love to get into some quick tips that we might have for being more present with our children, connecting with our children, and opening the lines of communication. We talked about this when you were here last time, but I think it's always great to repeat some of this. So what do you have for us there?

Erika : So I think when we say being present with our kids, I think we have to define, like, what do we mean by being present with our kids? Am I suggesting that every single person put down their phone all the time and be staring at their kids? I am not suggesting that. So sometimes I really do think people put that amount of pressure on themselves, like, okay, my kid's going to walk in the door, put down the phone, be ready, not reality. So I just want to be clear, that is not the goal here. But when you do connect, and when you do make yourself available for connection, it should be as device free and as authentic as possible. So maybe you make intentional times to have family dinner four nights a week. And if that's not realistic for your family, maybe it's three nights a week.

Katie Chandler: Or.

Erika : Maybe it's that you take a walk with your kid two days a week, you walk the dog and phones are away and you're really using those device free times. There's an amazing book that I really enjoy that I think your listeners would enjoy called Simplicity Parenting. And the author is Kim Jong Payne. And it's all about how much our environment really does lend itself or not lend itself to connecting with our kids and being present. And it's amazing. Like even at bedtime, small environmental tweaks you can make like turning down the lights or turning off TV an hour before bedtime, even if you just have the news on the background, for some households, that's the norm. And just thinking about changing little details and opportunities for connection and I do think bedtime is a huge opportunity for connection. It's interesting. It's almost like our kids can read our vibes. We just want to get upstairs to our room or get down the hall to our room. We just want to tuck them in and say goodnight and get out of there and then they start opening up with everything that happened that day. So I think bedtime, if you can try to do bedtime and have a little routine for connection as often as possible.

Amy : So question on bedtime, because I think when my kids were little, that was easier to do and I could get little nuggets here and there. But now my kids are older, 13 and almost 16, and they go to bed later than me. I'm exhausted at night. My little one will sometimes be like, can you rub my back? But it's like 1030 and I'm like, I'm so tired, I can't and I feel bad. But for teenagers, I feel like it's really hard to connect at night because they're already like they're up late, they're doing their thing, I don't know. So what are you seeing with older kids and that connection at night time? Is it more during dinner?

Erika : No, I would say don't force it. But maybe it's something like you just leave your door open until then. They may just kind of come and want to tell you something or something really simple like that. Or maybe it's you peek in before you go up and say like, hey, maybe you start a new little ritual with them, like, hey, I just want you to know I'm going to bed. But I thought we could maybe try this thing where we do like highs and lows of our day. You could even suggest it at a time that's not bedtime, try to kind of incorporate it into the bedtime. But I think it's a hard balance with adolescence because you don't want to push them because then you're pushing them away, and it's okay that they sometimes leave for a bit and then come back to you. You just make yourself available. I think there are things you can do as well with all ages, like more kind of practical, concrete strategies, like body language. Maybe you're just kind of sitting in the same room doing your own thing, but maybe it's something as simple as just kind of, like, turning towards them, and then you never know what can come from that. They may open up and say something or I think we talked about this last year when I was on the podcast, but just noticing kind of really awesome things they do and saying it out loud because so often we are so busy and we're going through our days and we're forgetting to say, that was so awesome what you just did. Thank you. Like, catching them in the moment. That works for three year olds.

Amy : I recently did that the other day with my younger one.

Erika : Yeah, exactly. So that works for three year olds, 13 year olds, because he had, like.

Amy : A really good reaction to something which he normally wouldn't. And I was like, oh, I'm so proud of you that you handled it.

Erika : And what was his reaction when you said that?

Amy : I think he just, like, smiled and felt good.

Erika : By the way, they don't show you that they feel good from a comment. Like, that doesn't mean they're not good.

Katie Chandler: They are.

Erika : They're still human beings. They want to connect. They want to feel good. Think about it. Work. Like if your boss said to you, like, wow, I had asked you to work on that, and you did, and I'm really noticing a change, you'd be like, yeah, I feel good, totally. And then I think I don't know. For connection with teens, I think parents really often forget, like, you have to ask open ended questions. You can't ask yes or no questions that will totally shut them down. Did you have a good day? Yeah. Think about the difference between saying to someone, did you have a good day? Versus, oh, I wonder how that test went today. It elicits a totally different response, and people forget that using just simple statements, open ended, like, tell me more about that. Like, oh, I'd love to hear more about that. When you're more in the mood, like, not being pushy, but giving them this opportunity to kind of respond in the ways that they want instead of yes or no questions tend to really shut down the conversation.

Katie Chandler: Yeah. I just recently started saying things that pick up because I was like, So tell me about your day, and I would get nothing. So then I started saying, okay, what's one really funny thing that happened today? Give me one thing that made you laugh. Or, like, was there a time today where you were, like, a little unsure and anxious? I'm just trying to pull these. Nuggets. It's amazing how much they don't want to try.

Erika : I know. But you know what? At your kid's ages, elementary.

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Erika : They're so exhausted at that time. That's true. And they need that break. They need the quiet. I mean, a lot depends on your kid, but if you have a kid who's a little more introverted, they may just need to sit and chill and go in the room for an hour and it may come out later, like at bedtime, when you're ready to go to bed. Right, right.

Katie Chandler: Definitely.

Erika : The open ended questions or statements are huge, and just thinking about tweaking the things you say in a way that from yes or no to open ended can help a lot.

Katie Chandler: Okay.

Amy : I've also found, and I've mentioned this before. I think I've told you this before, Erica, but I also find that my kids open up more when I'm doing something they want to do. So, like, Jackson, my older one, is starting to drive, so he really wants us to take him driving.

Erika : Driving.

Amy : I mean, he doesn't talk that much because he's just learning how to dress. He's nervous, but in general, he's in a better mood when he comes back because he's done something that he wants. Or if you sit and watch a sports game or whatever it is, they just tend to just give you a couple more nuggets because they're happy that you're doing that thing with them, whatever it is, versus being like, do you want to do this with me? And they don't want to do it. Even if it's something that you think is fun, like a walk or this, and they don't want to do it. They don't want to do it.

Erika : It has to be their thing. It has especially the little ones, you can make a huge deal of it. You are going to pick what we're doing today and it's going to be so cool. You can pick a puzzle. I can jump on the trampoline with you. Whatever it is that they like to do. And you do it and you say, this is just going to be like I say to my three year old sometimes because I know that she feels when I'm busy and when I'm cleaning the kitchen, when I'm on a work call and I'm just kind of putting on the TV for her, then I intentionally will say to her, marlowe me, and you are going to have marlowe mommy time. And I know that it's just for the next 20 minutes. I'm going to put the phone in another room and we're just going to sit and I'm going to say, you get to pick. How cool is that? Do you want to read books or do a puzzle? So that works with older ones, but especially the younger ones. Really awesome.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, that works really well with Reese, too, and she's five. It's amazing how much, like 20 minutes of doing that one thing with her. Like, we played Barbie's last weekend for 20 minutes, and she was just like, she was done. She could have played by herself, and.

Erika : You'Re all in it for those 20 minutes. And it's amazing, actually, how much they kind of will comply after that.

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Erika : It's like telling a kid who feels like you fulfilled their need for a connection to brush their teeth is different than telling a kid who feels like they've been ignored all day.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, absolutely. Before we let you go, amy and I have some personal questions that we want to ask, and I would like to get your tips for how to handle bullying. I've got a nine year old, and she's getting into that age where it's all about social, social, and there is definitely some being left out going on, some bullying, some rocky friendships. It's breaking my heart, and I don't know what to do about it.

Erika : It's really hard.

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Erika : It's really heartbreaking. And I think when I had my daughter Sadie, seven years ago, it was like, all of a sudden, my heart went from being in my body to now it lives outside of my body, and it's Sadie. And when she's happy, I'm happy, and when she's not happy, I'm not happy. And finding a balance for ourselves as parents, and that's why putting yourself first is so important and finding things that can kind of fill your cup, as we say, is a huge part of that equation. But it doesn't make it easier when they're going through something hard. And I think that when your kid comes to you with something hard and they are actually at a point where they're ready to open up to you about it, you got to thank them. The first thing is thank you. I think we maybe talked about that last time. Thank you for coming to me with that. I appreciate that. And then when they're coming to you, they want to know that you understand that you're there for them, that you're here for them, and they want to know that they're not alone, but they are not looking for you to fix it.

Katie Chandler: Okay, that's interesting because that's where I'm getting pushback. I tried to fix it, and then she's shut down.

Erika : And that's the thing. It's like, okay, there's this brilliant psychologist named Richard Schwartz, and his method for therapy is called Ifs. I don't know if you guys have heard of it, internal family systems. It's amazing. And I think your listeners would probably really like to know more about that so they can look it up. But basically he says that hard things are going to happen and sad feelings are going to happen, angry feelings are going to happen, but the trauma doesn't come from the hard experience. The trauma comes from feeling alone in that experience. I also want to say it's not my idea, it's Richard Schwartz from Ifs, but it is brilliant and it helps me in my work very much. So the trauma doesn't come from going through the hard experience. The trauma comes from feeling alone in.

Katie Chandler: That experience and trying to get through it on your own.

Erika : And so as a parent, when you've provided these opportunities for connection and for communication and your kid knows, my mom is here for me, she loves me, I can go to her. That is like 50% of the battle with the bullying and with whatever they're going through. So I want you to be confident because I know you as a mom.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, I'm tearing up thinking about it.

Erika : That you have done the work. I'm here for you, I love you, and you can come to me. The mean girls are going to happen. The being left out is going to happen. But the fact that she has a mom that she can go to and tell you what's going on is like, such a huge piece of that puzzle.

Katie Chandler: Okay, so I need to stop trying to fix that.

Erika : I think so, because I think what's.

Amy : Important are you supposed to empathize and.

Erika : Just say, be my formula for that, that you say, thank you, I'm here for you, and then you ask an open ended question, okay, so can you tell me a little bit more about that or what's going on with that? And then you empathize and depending on the age of the kid. So, like, Amy for you and also the fact that you have boys, they may not want a really long winded paragraph of a response. You may just say something like, that sucks. And then they're like, yeah, it does. You know, your kid, and you kind of gauge like, what the response is. And for you, it might be something like, god, it sounds like she's really leaving you out. And then you'll hear she'll say, yeah, and then this happened. And then she's like, wow, my mom really? She gets me. She's with me. And to say to her specifically, you know what, I just want you to know you are not alone and maybe you even want to share something that.

Katie Chandler: Happened in your childhood. Yeah, I haven't done that yet, and I need to.

Erika : Can I tell you something? This really reminds me of something that I went through when I was in third grade and I remember and this happened and she's like, really, mom? And all of a sudden she's validated. I think the problem is so think about if a kid came to you and said so and so didn't invite me to her birthday party. And now think about if you're the kid and you're telling your mom and the first thing your mom says is, what? How could she not invite you? You're so amazing, you're so beautiful. I'm calling her mother right now and you're going to be invited. Imagine how that would shut you down and how embarrassed you would feel and how you wouldn't want to come back to that person. And then imagine a mom who says something like, oh, that must be so painful, and they're like, yeah, and let me tell you why. And it's like, wow, my mom really gets me. And then if you do really feel the need to fix or to do something action oriented, you know how to come up with something that's appropriate for your family and your kids. So maybe it's, hey, you know what? Which girls do you really like? Who makes you feel really good? Let's invite a couple of girls over this weekend. Let's plan a really connecting with them. And I think that having that shift from in your own mind and this is really what I do with my clients, and, you know, this is that, oh, my kid cannot go through this. She's not going to be okay to normalizing it and saying, this is part of childhood. This is part of development. This is part of growing up. I am her calm, confident, strong leader, and I will help her get through this, and she will be okay.

Katie Chandler: Yeah. So it's being the support system, which is what we are as parents, is.

Erika : What we're here for, and you don't want a kid think about the people that you really like who are interesting and fun and dynamic and funny and cool. Have they been through things in their lives?

Katie Chandler: Yeah, of course.

Erika : Do you want a kid who's never been through anything?

Katie Chandler: Right.

Erika : That person is not someone I want to hang out with.

Katie Chandler: Okay. Yeah. That's excellent advice, as usual. Excellent. All right. Thank you.

Amy : I know. I'm like salivating. It's such good news.

Erika : That is so not what I do. I am so anxious and wrapped up in my kids feelings. So when we're talking about perfection and comparison like we were in the beginning of this conversation, I do not always do this. Guys, I'm striving to do this right, but I don't take the advice with a great assault. Do with it as much as you can and know that.

Amy : Even take the bosses that you remember.

Erika : Your kid will be okay.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, it's very true. All right.

Erika : Yeah.

Amy : Okay. So my question and this isn't really as deep. It's just more of just something I noticed that happens all the time, but it happened last night, and I was like, let me ask Eric about this. And I've probably mentioned it before, but my little one is extremely sensitive. Like, overly sensitive and overly reactive to many things. And in fact, I want him to go see someone just because I think he just doesn't handle his emotions well. And so this is a good example. Last night, I was already in bed, but I hear him downstairs watching the Celtics game with my husband. Something happened, and they didn't win, and someone made some stupid move, whatever, and I hear him, like, bang the sofa and he's like, screams. He's so upset and comes running upstairs, like not hysterical crying, but like crying, like something happened to him. It wasn't just like they didn't play well in the game, whatever. He's like crying. I mean, he's 13 years old and he's crying about his team losing the game. So it's a little bit overly sensitive. And he's like that with a lot of things. Like he gets this isn't the right word, but like flies off the handle really quickly for things that are not big deals. So it's like, yes, I want him to get him someone to talk to so he can have strategies. It's not like anger management. I don't know what it is. But he needs strategy is to not do that. Sometimes he's really good and sometimes but anyway, I just want to get your thoughts on it.

Erika : I want him to have healthy coping skills.

Amy : Yes.

Erika : So, first of all, I want to remind you that when you're between the ages of like twelve and 15, there is so much going on chemically for them. Like their brains and their hormones are developing in such crazy ways and the feelings that they feel are like 100 times more intense than the feelings that we feel. So I want to normalize that for you and to tell you that I do not know. And yes, I do think it's a good idea for him to talk to someone. And I'm also not a psychologist and I don't diagnose, but it's probably developmentally appropriate, it sounds like. And I also think that it's also hard. And so yes, it's normal and it's proactive to want to get him some coping skills. And so, you know, what what does he love to do? Does he exercise? Does he play sports? Does he love music?

Amy : Plays sports, loves music.

Katie Chandler: Yes.

Erika : I know some kids they'll make a playlist for when they're feeling a certain way. Maybe he wants to do something like that. Or maybe I don't know if he's the kind of kid who can transition well from like screen time, but like, maybe he does need like 20 minutes of just playing a video game with a friend to kind of wind down.

Amy : Yeah, I think too, it's late. Like, he's watching his games. It's late and he's tired probably from the day. So I would imagine just like it would be for me, your emotions are more or higher because you're tired and you're just like you lash out or whatever.

Erika : And the physiological needs are really a huge part of our emotions as we know, like making sure that he is getting more sleep, maybe trying to tweak bedtime. I do not think phones should be in the room at night.

Amy : I know, and I'm so guilty of it. It's so bad. I very hard to control when the kids get older.

Erika : But I was validated by I went to see this woman, this psychologist and parenting expert, lisa Damore. I saw her speak. She also has a podcast. And I saw her speak last night at Greens Farms Academy here in Westport, and she spoke to an audience of hundreds of parents of middle school and high school parents, and she's been practicing for, like, more than 20 years. And she said phones should never be in the bedroom.

Amy : Yeah, I got to rein it back in for him. Just tell him to put his phone downstairs at 09:00 or whatever the yeah.

Erika : And it's easy for parents to say, well, it's an outlook for them, and they communicate with their friends, and, you know, we make excuses. But when it comes down to it, if if that's going to affect physiologically what he's feeling and then in turn, that affects everything. Eating, emotions, academic achievement, really, sleep affects everything. And if the phone is going to be the key to getting more sleep, I think that's a big piece of that puzzle.

Katie Chandler: Yeah.

Amy : And I think, too, just like the wind down factor, even if he is watching the game, it's very, like, adrenaline. So, like, that's enough adrenaline. You don't need the phone to, like, texting with your friends, talking about the game. So it's just like another stimuli. So it's a really good reminder. Like, I got to have him put him put it down in the kitchen because we've just gotten a little bit more relaxed with it with him. And it's in his room, and I know he looks at it before he goes to bed or like, he watches sometimes he's, like, watching a movie, falls asleep, but still, that's not good. So I need to bring that in. The older one, forget it. It's a lost cause. I can't take it out of his.

Erika : Room with the younger one, but he's still an opportunity. Yeah.

Amy : And you know what? I feel like he's actually can sort of cope. He doesn't have a lot of those coping issues. Like, he has other stuff. And the phone used to be a bigger deal than it is now, and I feel like, yes, he's on his phone a lot, along with all of his other friends, but I don't think he's, like, up all night on the phone, and I don't know how much it's affecting his other world. I mean, it probably is, but it's also very difficult with him.

Erika : Good for them to have a break from just socialization, because think about when we were growing up. Like, we came home and there was a break, like, even if you were on the phone, oh, my God, I.

Amy : Used to come home and watch General.

Erika : Hospital every day, and I used to watch an on a two and a week, but that was a break. Like, you were constantly socializing and bombarded with group chats and group text messages.

Amy : Right. You're not talking to yourself.

Erika : It's not healthy. So we, as the parents, I think actually our whole generation of parents has to really come together and say for the well being of our kids, we need to put stricter boundaries on this stuff.

Katie Chandler: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you 100%.

Amy : All right. We've taken up way too much of your time, but we need to have you back. Yeah.

Katie Chandler: Thank you so much for being with us here.

Amy : It's so good.

Erika : I really love it. You guys are so awesome.

Katie Chandler: We're going to have you back again soon, hopefully, if we can.

Erika : Yay.

Katie Chandler: All right, Nirvana. This is just family.

Amy : Wait, I have something really funny just to close out with, something light and airy that we were talking about before, about comparing yourselves. I sent this quote or one of my friends, we have like this funny group chat speaking of group chats and she sent this funny quote the other day and it has to do with comparison and I just want to read it to you because it would make me laugh. It was from this Instagram page, lulu and Lattes. It says, I hate people who make everything a competition. I'll say I'm tired and someone will attack me and say, I haven't slept in three years and I work twelve hour shifts, so how are you tired? And I'm like and there's like 10 million question marks. And I'm like, question mark, question mark, question *****. Just let me be tired. ****, Ellen. Very funny.

Erika : Yeah, we're all tired. We don't have to be the most tired, right?

Katie Chandler: Exactly.

Amy : All right, thanks. And thanks for listening to Nirvana Sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes. Please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, find us on Instagram at Nirvana Sisters.

Erika : If you loved what you just listened.

Amy : To or know someone that would, please.

Erika : Share it and tag us.

Amy : Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana Sisters. We'll continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye,