This is a full transcript of the Nirvana Sisters podcast Episode 60 - The Dirty Skincare Secret We Bet You Didn’t Know About With Liz Whitman, CEO And Founder Of Exponent Beauty

Editor’s Note: Please know that this podcast transcript is automatically generated and may contain minor errors such as typos and word switches. For more information, be sure to listen to the podcast here or view our podcast episode guide.

Amy: 0:06

Welcome to Nirvana sisters podcast where we take the intimidation out of well being and beauty to help you achieve your highest state your nirvana. We are sisters in law and your hosts. I'm Amy Sherman.

Katie: 0:18

And I'm Katie Chandler. So let's get into some real conversation

Amy: 0:28

Welcome back to Nirvana sisters, Nirvana sisters family. It's Amy and Katie. And we are back and very excited to meet Liz Whitman, who is the CEO and founder of exponent beauty. This is the first of its kind, self activated and sustainable skincare solution. And we're super excited to hear all about this innovative brands product, and it's hot off the press, because it just launched in April. So we are so excited to meet you. Welcome to the show, Liz.

Liz Whitman: 0:58

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Liz is an entrepreneur, she's

Amy: 1:02

launched many brands, and she's really carved a space in the industry. So we're super excited to hear more about all of your extensive background in beauty and wellness and self care right up our alley. But before we do that, we want to just take a step back and do our nirvana of the week, which is really just a moment that brought you joy this week. We just like take a step back. Before we get there. I will lead to Katie to see to hear about your nirvana. Great. Thank

Katie: 1:28

you, Amy. I think my Nirvana this week was, was it yesterday or the day before I took my four year old to the beach. She's been out of school all week, and my eight year old is still in school. And you know, like she's doing camps and everything that summer. But this week, she's home and we've just had some really nice time together. And we went to the beach, the two of us we build sand castles and collected shells and had a little picnic. And it was really fun. It was so sweet. So that was that was mine for sure. What about you, Amy? Super fun.

Amy: 1:58

Well, mine I would say was this morning, because I think I've mentioned this on the podcast before when we had our dermatologist on, but I have gotten like many basal cells over the years, I have really sensitive and I guess prone skin to basal cells. So I do a skin scan every six months. And I was just posting on our Instagram channel this morning that everyone should go every year to get a skin scan. But I go every six months. And I had a good report this morning. So that's just always exciting to like, you know, go through the skin scan, I have to make sure everything looks good and like not have to worry. So that was my good news of the day. So I was very happy to have good skin, which I'm sure you know all about Liz, what about you?

Liz Whitman: 2:36

That's huge. And I just want to double click and say that I do agree that people should go get checked often. And most people don't think about it. So that's awesome. And I had an awesome week and unusually awesome. Because we had our team off site in San Francisco, for exponent, all of us work remotely and with the pandemic and being a small team. And we're sort of spread out and so to be in person and have that kind of energy in person. It's just It's so fulfilling. And then I had the best time. I love that.

Katie: 3:10

Yeah, that's fun. I'm sure it's great to have everybody together in the same room. Bouncing views. Yes. Yeah, that's a lot of fun.

Liz Whitman: 3:18

In the early days, particularly when you're small, there's like a tribalism that like kind of happens as you all kind of come together. You know, you don't have that many people. And so you have to be rowing the boat all in unison. And it's tough to do and build those types of relationships remotely, I'm

Katie: 3:32

sure. I'm sure. All right, well, and

Amy: 3:35

you just get so much so much. So much done being together and bonding and communicating so many good ideas that came out of that, right?

Liz Whitman: 3:43

Totally. Yeah, it's too many. So now we have to prioritize which ones we're gonna do.

Amy: 3:50

That's nice. So tell us about exponent beauty and like what gap you are seeing in the market to come up with this really cool idea?

Liz Whitman: 3:58

Yeah, absolutely. And I don't even know if I would characterize it as a gap and more so as kind of a dirty skincare secret. And in the industry. I had been in the industry for about 15 years I and it's well known that antioxidants, which are the active ingredients that you often find in clinical skincare ingredients like vitamin C and retinol, the good for you stuff that we all seek out, are super fragile, when exposed to air, light and water. And the industry has worked really hard to stabilize those ingredients. And but I had this kind of hunch after using a lot of products that were kind of over promising but not delivering that there was sort of something not quite meshing in terms of the way these things were formulated. And so I ended up actually testing the top 25 Selling clinical skincare products on the market products that you have absolutely heard of probably us might be using right now I don't know, and sent them to an independent lab to test the concentration of the actives On day one through day 60. So from the moment the consumer takes the product home, what's actually happening on the day to day as you're using it. And the headline is that those products lost about 40% of their active ingredient concentration in a mere eight weeks. So stability is not an unknown thing. I think what was shocking for me, and perhaps more importantly, for my chemist, and my product developer, was the order of magnitude, right? That it lost so much so quickly. And so exponent really exists to fix this issue, right, which is to deliver active ingredients, the way that they're really meant to be delivered, right? Which is fresh, and potency every time.

Katie: 5:44

That's so brilliant, because so is it when you are you saying like when you bring the product home, and you take the lid off of it? Is that is that like, is it kind of similar to food, right? When we bring the food home food? It's the same idea, the expiration date kind of starts ticking from that point.

Liz Whitman: 6:01

Absolutely. I mean, in fact, the expiration date starts ticking from the moment it's manufactured, bottled up, goes through the supply chain, let's call it 18 months until you buy it, bring it home, then you open it and you kick off and even more rapid path of degradation.

Amy: 6:18

Did you see when you first like when you first opened it? I know you said over eight weeks, it was like 40% Last or whatever? What was it roughly when you first opened it? Since I have to go through that whole process? Like totally. So

Liz Whitman: 6:30

as you know, some products will state the concentration that they put in some don't. Right. And so of the ones who stated we were able to measure what that initial concentration was. And that was about 15% lower than what they stated.

Amy: 6:43

Now, why they say on like a vitamin C to keep it in a cool dark place.

Liz Whitman: 6:50

Probably yeah, exactly. I mean, the reality is, you could put your skincare in the fridge, and that will actually like slow down that degradation pack. It won't eradicate it though, right? Other ways that people have tried to slow it down, putting it in an airless pump, putting it in an amber jar, to protect from UV light. And, you know, combining certain molecules, so compounding vitamin C with Vitamin E or freundlich, in order to try to stabilize it. We tested all products that use those methods. And those methods again, help, but they don't eradicate the issue.

Katie: 7:28

And I would also imagine that there's a lot of products that use stabilizers, which maybe isn't necessarily part of clean beauty, right? Like I mean, you see that in so many things, it's that there's preservatives and foods or stabilizers and medication. Do you find those in beauty products as well?

Liz Whitman: 7:44

You do you do? And again, those will have it beyond the actual clean beauty issue with that right in terms of the stability, they will help but again, will not eradicate basically, as soon as it's premiere with water. Boom, that's where it all kicks off.

Amy: 8:00

Wow, wow. And what are the main I know you mentioned vitamin C, and how many ingredients are there that are this, for lack of a better word like perishable that we need to know about?

Liz Whitman: 8:10

Yeah, so anything that's an antioxidant, will be in that category, which is a lot of things. Um, so long list, long list, the hero ingredients that you would normally find in skincare that would suffer from this and is vitamin C. Retinol, which obviously hugely popular anti aging ingredient, and resveratrol, green tea, enzymes, probiotics, Vitamin K, Vitamin E to a degree, and then a bunch of acids as well. And which is a totally separate kind of world from from the exponent world. But acids as well would be fragile. What your your glomming on to, I think the best way to think about it, which is like, you know, we've all sort of come to the conclusion that fresh food is better for you, it tastes better, it's got more nutrients, etc. And so beauty I sort of tend to think lags the food industry by about 10 years, you saw that with natural and organic as well as a trend, right? And we're sort of living in that world right now in beauty, where people are really concerned about what ingredients are in their products, are they particularly unsafe? And I think what we're trying to do is, you know, transition that conversation, not just from, you know, what is in there that is potentially harmful. But what is in there that's truly truly beneficial. Sort of like the super food SAE kind of like status state of the food industry. We want that to be the focus within beauty.

Amy: 9:40

Yeah, that's really interesting, because you're right, the industry is behind and I don't think I've really thought about them that much. And I would imagine our listeners and most consumers are not thinking about it, they see like, whatever on the label 10% 20% They're like, great, you're not really, you know, thinking about it until you finish it and I don't know that's that's actually I'm very, very interesting. So hence x amount of beauty. So tell us what you've created to

Liz Whitman: 10:09

totally. And it's an it's been a labor of love. We've been in r&d for about three years, because this isn't an easy problem to solve, right. And, and so our solution is self activated skincare, whereby we've actually powderized all the active ingredients, all the antioxidants that we just talked about, in powder form, we've kept them in or unstable, right, so they are maintaining their concentration indefinitely until you activate them. And so our system allows you to activate an active ingredient with hyaluronic acid serum, which is very, very hydrating in the moment, and, and so the powderized form factor is kind of what allows us to stabilize everything. Um, but the experience is really the critical part, because no one's going to mortar and pestle a bunch of powder in their bathrooms lying around a whole big mess. So we spent a lot of time creating our packaging solution, which is our activator system, you can think of that as sort of the world's sexiest dispenser. It is a precision dosing system. So essentially, with a simple push twist, you dispense a precise amount of powder, and a precise amount of liquid in the proper ratio for a single dose and to apply clinical benefits to this game.

Katie: 11:31

It's really beautiful. You pour it in.

Liz Whitman: 11:34

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, we also thought, you know, besides functional benefits, we wanted to make it really attractive and counter were they so?

Amy: 11:43

Yeah, for sure. That's always important. So you, you put it in this device, mix it and then use it. So it's just like a fresh dose in a way sort of like when you go to a spa and they mix it right there is that the ACS kind of Yeah,

Liz Whitman: 11:56

yeah, definitely. And just to clarify, it's, you don't have to add anything to it each time. So you, you get 45 doses of powder, 90 doses of liquid, and you load it up once and then each time that you come to it to use it, you're just doing a push twist, you're dispensing from a bulk each time. So there's no like, it's not like Nespresso on it. Like that. Yeah.

Katie: 12:21

Yeah, that's genius.

Amy: 12:22

Cool. So what is really cool, what are

Katie: 12:25

some of the different types of powders? Just I'm sure how many do you have?

Liz Whitman: 12:30

Yes, so we have five. And so these are five serums. And so a serum is sort of the first layer you want to put on clean, damp skin, underneath and SPF for moisturizer. Each one of our serums has, you know, major anti aging benefits. So they have all been clinically tested to reduce fine lines and wrinkles. And then each one has an additional benefit on top of that. So first in the lineup is our newest product, which is our Time Rewind retinol, retinol at 0.25% in every dose since we can do an optimal dose. And so that's going to give great benefit for fine lines and wrinkles and Retexturizing the skin add the next step is our brightening boost vitamin C product and so this delivers 10% l ascorbic acid in every single dose. In addition to fine lines and wrinkles, it's been clinically proven to help with discoloration, brightening and radiants benefits. And third is our firming filter co q 10. Antioxidant. cokie 10 is an ingredient that's super popular in supplements and is used less frequently in skincare, even though it's got fantastic benefits. So we're really excited about this one. And it will help with fine lines and wrinkles but also have a firming effect on top of it. Then we have comme revival, green tea and resveratrol. So both green tea and resveratrol blend, and this is awesome and potentially the one that Amy should get because it's great for sensitive skin. So in addition to fine lines and wrinkles, benefits and it'll also have a redness reduction. So those ingredients are both anti inflammatory as well as an anti aging which is awesome. And then finally we have clear comeback enzymes and probiotics. And so this will actually help the clog pores and reduce blemishes.

Amy: 14:29

Wow. So how would so how would someone use the products like what would they use every day? What would they use? Like what's the Yeah How are people using the different products and for what I mean not for what but like in what in the am the pm etc?

Liz Whitman: 14:43

Yeah, so we have a couple of like natural combinations I would say and for am and pm routines. And I should note that the activator system is completely mix and match. So actually about half of our gamers have more than one powder that they're using. As an interchangeable top with a hyaluronic acid base, so a great pairing for anti aging benefits would be the vitamin C in the morning and retinol at night. A great caring for sensitive skin types would be calm revival green tea in the morning, and firming filter co q 10. That night. And, and then of course, our probiotic and enzymes is just a great treatment for folks who are worried about the clogging pores or blemishes. And we have people who use that twice a day, if that's their main concern. And I also use it sort of on an occasional basis when I'm traveling in drier climates, and and I'm just getting clogged and I'll use it for about a week and swap it into my routine. And but all of our products can be used interchangeably. The only one that I would sort of suggest really needs to be only used at night is retinol. And then we do suggest using vitamin C in the morning only because it gives you the additional benefit protecting against free radicals throughout the day. So if you use it at night, you'd still get great benefit from it, you're just not getting that protective benefit during the day.

Katie: 16:11

Okay, and what is the vitamin C test kit that I saw that you you have is that something that's coming out, or it's currently available?

Liz Whitman: 16:19

That's currently available. So I mentioned that this has been this three year journey. And in terms of grading these products, and I mentioned the primary research that we had done, you know, in the early days to verify the problem. So in the lead up to launching the products we actually published and a research hub called the exponent standard. And we took all of our primary research, we did a lot of lab work and published it there. And consumers were coming and you know, engaging with our content, and then writing in and asking lots of questions like, if these products degrade, what should I be using. And this was an advance of us having a product to recommend. So we then ended up actually creating some tools to help consumers find effective skincare. So this is truly separate from the product line, just very objective research had to help people find the best products out there. And those tools include a product recommendation list of the 82 out of 500 products that we researched and looked at that meet our standards for efficacy. And I'm happy to tell you what that is. And then the second tool we launched is vitamin C test kit. And so these are test strips that you can use at home to test the concentration of vitamin C in your skincare products, whatever you're using. And so that'll help you figure out okay, is it at a starting concentration that's doing anything for me? Is it still good after a couple of months or whatnot else. And it's just a self serve tool at home, it does have a QR code. So folks have been uploading their results to us, which is awesome, because we use that data to actually add or remove products that we recommend from our product recommendations list.

Katie: 18:05

That's so cool. And it's also really generous of you to provide that for, for the consumer to be able to get this information for themselves. But I would imagine that it's going to reveal to them that their products aren't as powerful as they thought. And so the next move is they'll come to you and be ordering more of your powders and everything. So it's really genius. It's, it's a great idea. And it's also probably really surprising for a lot of people to find out what exactly they have in their arsenal. It's not everything they thought it was hacked up today,

Amy: 18:38

I was just gonna ask the question, because you're mentioning the results. So what are people seeing, like the before and afters of the results they're seeing based on like using their old products? And then switching over and kind of tell us about that a little bit.

Liz Whitman: 18:50

Yeah, absolutely. So and what's been great about the kind of UGC that we're getting on before and afters from our products, is that our timeframe for actually seeing results and seems to be like pretty quick for skincare. I mean, typically with skincare, you're looking at like eight weeks to see results. And a lot of our products after two weeks, you have visible results. So people are, I think just really excited to be able to see something, how many times we'll be at, you know, these products, and we're expecting these miraculous results and we're trying to look but it's like imperceptible, etc. And so that's been amazing. And of course, as I said we did clinical studies on these products to begin with to make sure that they actually will deliver results. So I'm seeing that. And then other vitamin C testers folks who've tested other people's products over the last couple of years. And absolutely, we've just been so excited to see how they're reacting to ours. I will say though, Katie Yeah, I mean it does, it does open their eyes. But on our product recommendations list, there are a few other vitamin C products out there that we do recommend as well from other brands and we Don't get any, you know, affiliate fees or anything. So you fully shoppable go check it out. Thanks. That's good. Yeah, that's good.

Amy: 20:09

All right. The transparency. Yeah. Right. Yes.

Katie: 20:11

Genius. So and then the company also focuses there's a focus very much on full of versus free of, and thus, I couldn't really greatly appreciate because so much now you it's all about clean beauties free of the parabens, this and that, and this and that. And that's very heavily advertised, which is great. Thank I mean, thank goodness for that. But exponent beauty is focusing on what you're full of, which I assume is just powerful punch of everything that we're buying the stuff on the first place, right.

Liz Whitman: 20:40

Yeah, exactly. So I mean, I explained the exponent standard, and the research hub, like our entire mission is just to educate consumers on and raise the standard for effective skincare. So free of the clean beauty movement. I am super, super supportive of that, obviously, we should expect that our products don't cause harm. It's just to me, that's only half the equation, right? The other side of that is great, okay, there's nothing harmful in here. But what's actually in here that I can expect benefit from, right? And how do we create some measurement around that? And when I look at the industry, there's just so many certifications of that stand for the absence of things free, that's free of that. And I just keep questioning why is there not a standard for, you know, efficacy, right? This is, what is clinical stinker. It's an ill defined term, right? Like, how are we measuring these benefits. And one of the big things that I get, you know, particularly frustrated on is the use of clinical results. So I mentioned that our products have been clinically tested a number of times, there's actually a really big difference between clinical testing, which uses instrumentation to measure actual benefits and consumer perception testing. And in our category, in both cases, that takes place in a lab setting. So brands can quote consumer perception testing as if it's a clinical results when it's not. Anyway, longer story, but part of the exponent standard is is sorting through those 500 products that I mentioned, calling it down to add to all a few those products have been properly clinically tested and to show benefit.

Katie: 22:21

Amazing. I want to know what your skincare routine is because you have gorgeous skincare skin rather, literally. So what do you do? Yeah,

Liz Whitman: 22:34

I do try to keep it relatively simple. I do not have a 10 step routine by any means. And I think fewer better products for everyone would be would be a nice move. So in the morning, I actually don't wash my face because I've washed my face at night and I use a micellar water and or toner I just like splash it on. So that's step one. Step two, I use one of our exponents serums typically I use calm revival in the morning because I have sensitive skin and a bit of rosacea. And then I put on an SPF on top. And everyone should be wearing SPF every day. I don't care if you're only outside for five minutes, please please please.

Amy: 23:18

And if it's cloudy, that doesn't mean anything. Please.

Liz Whitman: 23:23

And then I put an SPF on top. And then at night I cleanse and I do we're you know some makeup light during the day and so definitely need an oil cleanser to kind of get it all off. At night at I use a different exponent serum. So co q 10. The firming filter one at night. And then I put a light moisturizer on top just because I like the feel and I kind of want to trap everything in. And then once a week I exfoliate. And I use a sort of grainy exfoliation. Yeah.

Amy: 23:57

Yeah, what SPF do you use?

Liz Whitman: 23:59

When I use questions? Yeah, so So my favorite brand is Elta. MD and so I use their SPF which is 46. And it's amazing product. I don't know if you're familiar with it. Every dermatologist friend and

Amy: 24:14

colleague that I have had a dermatologist on the show who recommended it. Yeah, it's amazing. And it's like the gold standard.

Liz Whitman: 24:22

Yeah, they have a clear one and they have a tinted one. And this is the craziest thing about the tinted one. So hard to get a universal tint and but like girlfriends of mine across the Fitzpatrick scale in terms of skin tone, we can all use it and it looks amazing. It's very light. And so particularly when I'm in a rush, I just put that on and it gives us a little bit of sort of not retouching effect. It's not like wearing foundation but just kind of smooths everything out.

Amy: 24:53

Right smooths everything out. Yeah. One of the other things I noticed on your website, which is really impressive is that you're a B Corp. which I know is really hard to get that certification. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that? Because I think that's very important nowadays.

Liz Whitman: 25:08

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, benefit corporation, otherwise known as B Corp, and is a type of corporate status in the US where you have to actually go through a very rigorous certification process. And basically, they're looking to see if you meet the highest verified standards of environmental and social transparency and accountability in your business practices. That sounds very, very technical, I like to think of it as companies that really want to structure themselves around this concept of a triple bottom line, right. And so obviously, we're a for profit company. So we're thinking about making profits. So that's thing one, but we're also thinking about impact on planet and people. Right. And so that's, that's our triple bottom line focus, it took us about a year and a half. And to get B Corp certified, we were certified even prior to launch, which is somewhat unheard of, it was very important to me personally, I've done a lot of work with B corpse in the past. And so I knew that that was something that we wanted to do. And the way that we got verified is because our packaging has actually eliminated plastic waste. So we didn't talk about it. But the activator is fully refillable, or refills, cutting glass jars with aluminum caps, which are the only infinitely recyclable materials out there. And the activator itself is a system that gets reused again and again. So I am super, super proud of this. And I think what I was kind of surprised about to be honest, is I knew it was important to us and to me to do this the right way. And I didn't know how much it would resonate with consumers, right. And I'm not sure if we're like really voting with our wallets on sustainability in the beauty category at this point. And it's been really wonderful to see how people have glommed on to it, how they're respecting it, how they're commenting on it bodes well for all of us and for the for the future of the planet as well.

Amy: 27:10

Yeah, it's definitely, I think, especially to the younger generation, they're very aware what I've seen very aware of companies that are in this space, truly, and it does make a difference to them, which I love. And there is so much waste and beauty. So congratulations on that. It's really good to see. Thank you.

Katie: 27:31

Now, you're also a mentor and an investor in a lot of like young startups in the beauty space, which that has to be exciting. What are some? Are you seeing a lot of very, like innovative products and cutting edge things that are, you know, on the horizon that we should get excited about?

Liz Whitman: 27:49

Yeah, I love being an investor in the space, I do seed stage investing as part of X Factor ventures, and we're small seed fund focused on female founded businesses. And I do look at a lot of consumer and naturally a lot of beauty. And, and there are there are some very exciting things happening. I think, you know, first and foremost, folks are thinking about creating brands and product lines for specific consumer groups, and particularly underserved consumer groups and making sure that we're having a much more personalized kind of consumer and brand match. And I think that's really, really exciting, particularly in the realm of color cosmetics, making sure that we have, you know, a range of tones to suit every person's needs, and I think is critical. And we're seeing some really interesting things happening in the clinical skincare space in terms of biotech, starting to spin out new technologies, and for again, benefits in skincare, which of course, I'm excited about that part of the skincare world. And then we're seeing some really cool new innovations on the packaging front as well. So similar to my my enthusiasm for my own B Corp status. And there are some really interesting sustainable packaging companies that are coming out to really help the beauty industry start to clean up its act. It's really hard, you can't find stock packaging that's like actually sustainable. And so new materials innovations happening and playing with, you know, sort of soy based bamboo based kind of materials that could actually be used in our category. And I'm obviously personally really excited about that. Because if that comes out, and it's really like accessible and inexpensive. I think more and more brands will obviously choose to do the right thing. Yeah,

Amy: 29:42

that's great. Well, two questions. Firstly, I mean, it sounds like you know, you just launched in the brands doing well tell us about how their response has been and like how the ramp up has been, what you're seeing so far and then also what advice you have for female entrepreneurs listening to this that are just getting started and For example, when I create a product, yeah,

Liz Whitman: 30:02

yeah, absolutely. And the launch has gone super well, I'm so thrilled. And we've kind of exceeded our expectations. And I think some of the things that I started to kind of nod to earlier that surprised me, but in a good way, like I said, the sustainable messaging and seems to be resonating. It never really was something we didn't do it as like a marketing ploy. Right? We did it because we just wanted to do it. Right, it actually means something to you, which is Yeah, and the fact that it means something other people too, is just really, really awesome to see. And I think the other thing I've been surprised but pleasantly surprised about and is folks understanding this idea that it's a system, right and that it's got this mix and match capability. And because like I said, with my skincare routine, I tried to keep it to fewer better things. And so there's real value if people know that they can actually tailor their aim and their PM. And it's kind of like having three products in one, right, you've got the hydrator and then your two actives. And that's been really, really awesome, too. And then finally, we've gotten a lot of interest from dermatologists, Esthetician ones, and retailers and pretty early on, which is very cool. So that kind of opens up new, a new lens for how we want to think about growth and down the road. And advice for female entrepreneurs, I get asked this question, a decent man, this is now my third startup. So that makes me a masochist. But that's something we can talk about over grade one. So I've done this a number of times. And you know, one thing I would say is just like, make sure that you are really committed to wanting to do this for a decade, right. And it is not as glamorous as sometimes the press makes it seem there. It's a lot of hard work. I mean, the two of you know that, right? And, and and it's really got to make sense for you, as a personality, in terms of your lifestyle, and everything else. In terms of vetting an idea. My advice always is like, the best businesses are solutions to extremely acute problems, right? They're not nice to have, I would really think of it that way. Like your solution needs to be a painkiller, not a vitamin, right? And if that is true, then I mean, you know, world's your oyster, it means you're actually solving a real pain point for people. And then the third thing I would say, and this is hard, right? And is really, really make like friends and family and colleagues and network connections, feel very comfortable giving you real feedback on your idea, right? Like, go out of your way, like read up on consumer focus groups, and how to run them and how to ask questions without leading the witness, create an environment where you're like, tell me all the reasons why I shouldn't do this. Like that's a different way to phrase it, right? Because otherwise you end up in kind of an echo chamber, right? Where everyone's like, Oh, that's a great idea. No one wants to hurt your feelings. It's your baby, you know, and but you're just not gonna get better if you're not open to that.

Amy: 33:17

Yeah, so that's, that's great advice.

Katie: 33:19

All of it is yeah, I the product piece of filling a hole if it's a painkiller, not a vitamin is really like such a genius way to think about it. Because fixing a pain for some, that's what's going to really explode. Right is when it's really, really, really needed. So that's all such great advice. Thank you.

Amy: 33:43

So tell us how to find exponent beauty. Is it? I know you mentioned you're looking at retail and all these other areas? Is it? Is it just online? Is it? What's the what's the plan? Yep,

Liz Whitman: 33:54

right now, we are just online at exponent beauty.com. And so you can find the full line of five serums there. And in our research section on site is where you can find our product recommendations list for the exponent standard if you're looking to fill out your routine, so I would encourage you to check that out too. And then as I mentioned, of course, looking at the professional channel, so dermatologists esthetician offices, so we may be there sooner than you expect. So if you have your favorite you can ask them about us and see if we're there and and reach out down the road but for now, exponent beauty.com

Amy: 34:34

Also, I cannot wait to try it.

Katie: 34:36

Yeah, and your website has great how to like you know when to use retinol, what time of day and things like that. It's a really useful tool, the website in addition to have all of your amazing products so we are super excited.

Liz Whitman: 34:51

Yeah, I mean, again, for me my motivation obviously first and foremost is just to help people find effective skincare right at Otherwise, why would we publish all of this useful information, all of these product recommendations list and, you know, I hope a fraction of folks will fall in love with us too, but and our product line. So yeah, please do use it as a resource. And that's what we're there for. You can also always contact our customer delight team. Believe it or not, sometimes I get in there on some of the gnarly ingredients, questions and product recommendations questions. We're always happy to do a consult as well.

Amy: 35:27

That's great to know. Okay, we're gonna get into our rap session, which is a star quick hit questions. Don't think about I'm just answer ready. Here's the first one. What is your favorite wellness or beauty hack?

Liz Whitman: 35:39

Drinking water.

Amy: 35:43

Good one.

Katie: 35:45

And accessible to all.

Amy: 35:47

Exactly. Very important. That's great. Okay, the next one we call our five minute flower. So you just got out of the shower and dried off. Uber just alerted you. They're five minutes away. So what is your quick beauty routine? Like what do you put on what are your go to Holy Grails to get in the car and get out the door? And I know you talked about your skincare a little bit. But if you're you know, going out for the night, let's say what's your what's your quick get ready routine?

Liz Whitman: 36:12

Oh, you changed it up. But that nighttime question now I'm like trying to think about

Amy: 36:17

it. Or let's say a daytime brunch.

Liz Whitman: 36:21

Yeah, okay, daytime brunch. Alright, I jumped out of the shower, I put my hair in a microfiber towel, which dries it really really fast. While I put on my serum, and then my Elta tinted SPF, I don't have time to put on anything else. So that's just going to be my coverage. I would try to get some mascara in there if I could. And based on the timing to run out the door, hair dry brush brush, and then in sort of a top bun, which I'm going to hope is going to dry on its way to the brunch, and then I will let it out. Lived in and organic waves.

Katie: 37:00

Love it. Perfect. Alright, and the last one we want to know is how do you maintain your daily nirvana?

Liz Whitman: 37:09

You know, I think I need to get better at maintaining my daily nirvana. It's like a conscious practice to make sure that I'm trying to take stock of kind of what went well, what can I improve on? What am I grateful for? And and I don't do it every day, and I should. And I really admire people who do

Amy: 37:30

it. Yeah, it's definitely hard, especially, you know, busy entrepreneur or running, you know, launching a brand, I'm sure. But yes, we always, we always try to just tell people take a step back for five minutes and breathe. You know, it's just something to like, make sure you're not burning out. We actually just did an episode a couple weeks ago, that launched about the vagus nerve and keeping within the window of your vagal tone. So every ever since I heard that I was like, gotta make sure you're in that window or else you burn out. But that's great. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. So we will end with our mantra which we'd like to do at the end of every show to set the tone and say goodbye to our listeners. Katie, what do you have for us?

Katie: 38:12

So this week, and just to reiterate, I've said this recently, some are mantras, some are reminders, some are just little affirmations. This one is difficult roads often lead to beautiful destinations. And I think oh, what it sounds like Liz your road to creating excellent beauty has not been an easy one. And you guys have rocked it and the brand is here and we are so excited praise. Thank you for being with us today.

Liz Whitman: 38:40

Thank you for that. That's really wonderful. I'm going to take that one with me and repeat it at the end of the day. That'll be my first attempt at practicing my daily nirvana. So thank you. Thank you.

Amy: 38:55

Thanks for listening to Nirvana sisters. For more information on this episode, check out the show notes please subscribe and leave us a review. also find us on Instagram at Nirvana sisters. If you loved what you just listened to or know someone that would please share it and tag us. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of Nirvana sisters will continue to watch out for all things wellness so you don't have to. Bye.